The King of 3D printing materials? Polymaker PolyMax PC REVIEW
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 เม.ย. 2024
- I finally tested Polymakers PolyMax PC filament for it's printing quality, mechanical performance and impact resistance. Let's find out if it really lives up to it's reputation!
Test samples and methods: / filament-test-16238656
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DISCLAIMER: NONE of these tests were performed with any officially calibrated test equipment. The values presented in this video are for information/entertainment only and will not be comparable to any official tests! - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
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I'm currently on holiday in Japan so please excuse if replies to comments might be a little delayed.
Enjoy your trip...
Have you made any tests on Polymaker Polylite PC? I think it was called PC-Plus in the past but it looks like they rebranded it. The properties apear to be almost equal but it's 25% cheaper! So the big question is, where is the catch?
Hi, I was just wondering if you annealed the prints. I see the manufacture recommends heating after the printing of Ploymaker PolyMax PC.
Wat about annealing Polycarbonate 3D prints ? I've seen a lot of annealing videos, but not really for polycarbonate.
If you re-humidify I.e. "add water back into the plastic after printing" this should dramatically increase strength. When thermo forming Polycarbonate it is quite common to have to do this after forming to regain the rated impact strength of the material as it is the water content that makes PC so strong.
This is for real?? Seems so backwards of everything I've learned lol doesn't surprise me tho I guess
I couldn't find any info on this, do you have any references?
Only nylon needs to be rehydrated, pc should not
Need another source on this.
I remember this from the yard trimmer video. The nylon cord was hydrated for strength and that package said do not dehydrate it or it would become brittle. That was nylon though, but I could see it for pc too. Are there sources?
I'd love to see the comparison with the lite version that's almost half-price.
well, the cheapest polycarbonate material sold in China is 12 dollars per kilo....I'd buy some and test.
@@XiaoMingMC so did u do it?
@@demonsheadshot8086 nope, I do not have an all-metal hot end, unfortunately.
@@XiaoMingMC I want to suggest since you could easily buy it locally there, an all metal heatbrake that you could replace ur ptfe heatbrake with and see if that works? I havent seen anyone try it and all they do is just buy microswiss or e3d hotends.
I’ve used the lite version (back when it was called PC-Plus), and it is extremely rigid, almost glass-like. Very strong, very very strong layer adhesion, and quite transparent. The downsides are that it is brittle, and will probably cut you if you break a piece in your hands. Also, sticks to my PEI bed far too well, but that’s mostly on me. Warps and lifts if you don’t adhere it well enough. I haven’t tried the Max version yet. I find eSun ePC prints more easily, but it doesn’t have the god-like stiffness, strength, and layer bonding of PC-Plus.
Hi Stefan from Australia, Your videos are a lifesaver. As a new to 3d printing bloke, ive been just buying every single different type of filament i can get my hands on, it was making me broke till i found your informative videos! Thankyou!
I really appreciate the level of technical detail in your channel. I get the high-level view of a particular material, and I learn a little bit about the technical aspects of materials and testing. Thanks!
Great job! I was thinking of upgrading one of my printers so I could print PC filaments, and you point out I actually probably don't have to, which is amazing. Keep up the great work.
11:22 "Next, I did the impact test, and there as expected, PC Max outperformed everything, even the really flexible peepee"
...a great material for everything that needs to take a beating
He probably knew
@@alexdunda Nice
I'm glad that I am not the only one :D
nice
I been dying to use my roll of Polymaker PC-Max but haven't found the right application until now and so, I'm extremely thankful that you've provided this video. Happy to be one of your supporters! Absolutely great work!
Thanks for the support!
Another great video! Great to see that you are using the awesome capabilities of the Core scanner!
I really appreciate your videos, Keep up the good work.
If only there was a prusaslicer setting to have the fan enabled for the outermost perimeter layer, and disabled for the inner layers and infill. Then you should get a good combo of strength and quality.
That's a brilliant idea, I'm sure it can be done👍
Yes, but the outer layer does most of the work, so also no.
@@SalveMonesvol The perimeter layers in general provide most of the strength, so yes you are sacrificing a bit of strength on one of the layers for the sake of print quality. Its all about trade-offs and understanding the consequences of them with the print settings. You can always add an extra perimeter layer to compensate. Better print quality, less cleanup time, potentially less plastic use for support (since you're less likely to need it) and finally, its a relatively easy setting to code in.
@@patrickweckermann9121 In that case, just make sure the outer layer is more elastic than the inner layer, thus allowing the inner layers to work befor the outer one cracks. So, no PLA.
Not sure we're talking about the same thing here, but I'll bite. Sure the outermost layer may be more brittle and prone to separation, but at least its in the shape you intended (as are the other layers). You can compensate this for a bit by increasing the temperature of the inner layer(s) so they adhere better. This is far more of an issue with materials like poly-carbonate and PETG in my experience.
Very detailed and interesting analyse, as always. thank you for it!
I hope you had/have a wonderful trip to Japan!
One set of testing I would like to see would be testing creep on various 3D printed materials and if there's ways to improve it.
I think that could be really fascinating, especially for mechanical parts.
Your charts made me question my understanding of some material properties - specifically around impact resistance when compared to Nylon. My intuition was that Nylon would have higher impact resistance than ABS, which is not what was shown on your graph. After doing some digging, it does seem to have lower impact resistance. I had mistakenly thought that because Nylon is more tough, the impact resistance would be better, but that's not the case. Thanks for your great videos, and you clarified something for me today 🙂. Also - looks like I need to get my hands on some of this PC, those material properties looks great.
Thanks for this test !
Great testing video, I don't use the polymaker PC brand, but i do print other PC's, i use a garolite sheet on my print bed with the heat at 70C and a hotend temp if 290C and 10% parts cooling for the annealing process, these settings give me the best results.
Would be cool to see the comparison to their Light brand as well. Thanks for the video, always good stuff on your channel
as always, very interesting and clear video!
Excellent tests. I’m soon to start using a PC blend myself. This is very timely.
very detailed review. Great!
Just subbed just getting into 3d printing myself, lot of useful info you're putting out, and i like your content. Keep it up.
Cool! Also check out Makers Muse.
Great video as always.
You should compare the polymaker PC vs pure PC filament.
+1.. I'd be very interested too. This material is excellent, but it is VERY different to use than other PC's I have tried. It's certainly a lot easier to print! It feels a lot more 'gummy' as if it is modified with a styrene or something. The MDS says it is 10% 'fillers' but give no clue as to what those are!
Yeah I think the temperature resistance will also be a bit higher at least. Lower print temp usually also means lower temperature resistance.
I was happy enough with us having a 3 day Labor day weekend here, and then I get this gold nugget for breakfast!! Thank you for a great start to my weekend!
You're welcome!
I've always had best luck with PC being printed in an enclosure with the cooling fan on 10%, but also with a piece of masking tape covering 2/3 of the cooling fan's intake. This seems to result in strong layer adhesion while still maintaining good print quality. I recently printed some replacement valve cages for a pressure washer and they held up great.
Super video! Great job
Another top class video!
In depth and quality review
So what happens to the 270 with 15% if you bake/anneal it? Can you get the strength back, but still keep the print quality without large shrinkage or distortion?
Annealing does usually NOT improve layer adhesion of the parts it doesn't fuse the layers back together. I will take a closer look at that in a bit!
Sehr sehr cool. Eine Rolle von PC Max habe ich auch noch da, da bekomme ich gleich Lust wieder mal etwas damit zu drucken :-)
CNC Kitchen love the videos thanks for sharing!!!
I have a print farm and I print with the Polylite PC clear, Polymax PC white and PolyMax PC Black a lot.
They all are different with end results, you would think there would not be much of a difference but there is.
On my raise 3d I print the Polylite PC clear at 260c with .1 layer height for best strength.
IF your print has long bridges never have your layers thinner than .1 mm, too thin and you will get much more layer drooping.
First 5 layers no fan. 15% to 20% fan after the first 5 layers, if that does not work no fan.
I print the Poly Max PC Black and white at 265c on the Raise for best strength and end results.
When I print the Poly Max PC Black and white at 270c it seem to have less flex and it is more brittle.
The Black and white are softer to the touch but stronger than the clear.
To much fan on wider flat surfaces will cause a warp effect.
Printing with a raft will bring less print failers and Increase your print consistency.
If your not using a raft use a 2 layer brim with at lease a 5mm gap between your print and brim, and your print quality will increase.
Hey steffan, nice vid! Will you do a test on some other specialty filaments? Like Nylon X or Markforged's Onyx filament.
Wow love this video (and all your videos)! I am fairly new to 3d printing and am interested in learning how to properly dial in my settings for new materials. Do you know of any comprehensive guide that would include calibration of extrusion multiplier, the use of a temperature tower, and other tests I should consider? Have you considered making an in depth video focusing on how you create your slicer profiles? Thanks and keep up the good work!
Hi Stephan, I use PC-MAX for mechanical parts and was very interested in this review. Also I read somewhere that PC-MAX need to be annealed 1h at 100°C to achieve it's best mechanical performance, would you consider give it a try later on?
Agreed! Please re-visit with recommended anneal settings!
Will do.
@@CNCKitchen Yesss! Thank you!
+1 for this. I am considering buying myself a small fan assisted oven (approx same size as my build volume) so I can take the hot glass build plate out and put it straight in after a print. I'd modify it with an arduino/second had PLC to control the annealing profile. I'd really like to see the affect as I have noticed the material properties seem to really change over time (after the part is printed) and would like to try annealing them to see if this goes away!
This material REALLY doesn't 'feel' like other polycarbonates I have printed with. Polymaker clearly modify the material for 3D printing. The MDS says it is 10% 'fillers'. I wonder what they are?? Gypsun, styrene, monomers... I really can't think. It certainly feels more 'gummy' than other polycarbonates and the temperatures are a lot lower.
Would there be deformation with annealing this material?
Hobbyking sells some (seemingly) pure polycarbonate filament for around 20 €/kg. It would be interesting so see how that compares to polymax PC and the lite version. I've been printing with the Hobbyking polycarbonate for a while and it does seem really strong, but I have nothing to compare it against. It requires a printing temperature of 295 C, which leads me to believe it is in fact pure PC. I also use an insulated chamber while printing with it. Some kind of a chamber is a must, since without it, the parts would completely warp themselves free from the surface.
I agree.. I have both materials (I use PC-Max a LOT) and the hobbyking is indeed a LOT more like other polycarbonates I have seen in the wild.
Ok, but you can print this one in 250 !
Great video :D the Gom scanner is really nice, had access to on while I ran the rapid prototyping lab at university. Really great tool but not exactly cheap 😅 but at least the software is free an really good :D
One of the best filament test I have seen so far. The only thing you should have tested is print speed. From my test on other filamentet the slow printspeed give mutch storger and more correct printed parts.
Awesome tests. It's recommended to use a heated chamber. I wonder how much the layer adhesion and print quality would improve with that.
You are the best! Do the digital image correlation vídeo. My Master dissertation is on DIC and i use gom correlation software.
Excellent video, concise, funny at times and very informative. Do you have building videos or info on your DIY testing machines? Thanks!
Yes I do!
UTM: th-cam.com/video/uvn-J8CbtzM/w-d-xo.html
Impact: www.thingiverse.com/thing:3511769
I tried both PC Max and eSun ePC - I found ePC much easier to work with and produced much cleaner prints, had better bed adhesion, and was less moisture sensitive. It would be interesting to see how it's performance compares.
Stefan thank you for your AWESOME content!! How do you remove the glue after the print from powder coated sheet, which I've seen you were using?
I’d like to see you test materials based on print quality... even sacrificing raw strength for the best-looking prints (least layer lines, smoothest finish, highest accuracy)
Great video and very thorough! Have you had a chance to print Prusament's PC blend filament? Anxious to see if the numbers they report are realistic.
I use GOM equipment at work to inspect metal 3d printed turbine components, being able to get so much information has really changed how we work
I'd be very happy to see a comparison between various engineering filaments such as Carbon fill PLA, Graphene enhanced PLA, Diamond enhanced PLA, ApolloX ASA etc. Preferably filaments that print at 250° or less as that is my maximum nozzle temp!
I know this video is old and I am sure you are very busy but do you have any plans to do another video on PolyMax PC where you anneal it before testing. Really very interested.
Thank you for all your great videos and contributions.
Great video and informative. Having a rough time trying to print the stuff with poor bed adhesion but have a few more tunes to try out. Need to make parts for a voron build so I need the high temp resistance. Would you pick abs or polymax pc for these parts?
A website with all test results compiled in one chart would really be handy ...
I want to get into 3D printing myself, but only for technical applications ... I already have enough nick nacks as it stands and don't need more crap collecting dust, but I have demand for all sorts of stuff you can't buy but have a use.
Hi Stefan! Gave myself a Christmas present by ordering a i3 MK3S+ :) Been binge watching your videos ever since... Great work with proper fundamentals and documentation, as well as properly explained :)
Trying to put an order together to possibly print a RC car and looking a different fillaments, when I stumbled across the "Polyterra" fillament.
Any chance we'll get a review on that on your channel?
Cheers
Michael
Have fun with your MK3! It's a great machine. Haven't tried Polyterra, yet, though I'll put it on my list for this year!
@@CNCKitchen bester Mann! Danke ☺️
This level of engineering attention is insane, and exactly what I was looking for as an engineer wanting to print decent items at home without shelling $5-10k for a nylon cut printer
hello, i would really like to see a slow motion video of your impact test. I suspect that in some amount the broken test sample gets to drag under the weight and that could have some effect in your measurements. Great Video!!
It actually shouldn't due to the geometry of the hammer (which is conforming to the ISO 180).
Thank you for this video. PC-Max is still my favourite material. When I print in anything else thesse days I am dissapointed by the materials strength. As per my other comments: I'd really like to see some investigation regarding the reccomended annealing and a comparison against 'pure' polycarbonate materials. The Polymaker MDS states that this material is 10% 'fillers' but don't say what! Perhaps a gypsum, or butadene; maybe styrene. It feels a lot more 'gummy' than other polycarbonates and is a LOT easier to print.
I use PC-Plus (slightly different from PolyMax/PC-Max) and it's awesome. Crazy strong and prints very clean. Like CNC Kitchen said make sure you dry it before trying to print and print from a dry box because it's very hygroscopic.
I did some of my own testing with PC-Max and PC-Plus (now PolyLite PC and PolyMax PC) and found it stays dry in open air at like 30% humidity for like 14 days. So it should be okay to print from a normal spool holder.
How about Prusament PC blend? Would love to see a review on that
Hello Stefan I like the way you do the tests on the filaments precise but in a way that we can understand...👌
Whatever I d'ont see nobody doing chemical tests to the filaments....I have done an intake manifold for my motorcycle but all the filaments that I printed were weak in temp ( max 100°) or gasoline tolerance. Can you make a video with these tests to see what is stronger?
Keep doing your videos you are a reference for us thank you👌
Great Video. Do you think it would be possible to print TPU on top of PC max and attain layer adhesion due to similar print temp eg 250? Thank you Stephan.
Awesome as always. What do you think about Polymaker PoliMide CoPa? It will be interesting how it performs in your tests.
The Polymaker PoliMide has a lot of flex, on non solid parts, too much flex In my opinion!
I tested it similarly last year: th-cam.com/video/Q_i-57SEGlo/w-d-xo.html
a comparison between the polymax PC and the poly lite PC would be awesome
❤️ using PC
oh wow, that GOM software looks super powerful and free !? I'd actually been thinking to PM you about a little project I had going on regarding strain tests with speckle patterns. However, I guess that my project is obsolete now :p
Sorry ;-)
Your videos are great. My fav part this time 11:28
are all your test result avialable online? i need a strong material and petg with carbon fill seems like a reasonable price/peformance solution for me, but i would love to see a summary of your tests because your methods are consistent.
From PC filaments from other manafactures they have been printed at tempatures over ~300* as high as 320*. If you go hotter the fan should become more usable with keeping the part strength. At lower tempatures (sub 300*) the slower printed the better so the plastic had time to melt in the hotend.
Perhaps heated chamber + fan would be useful? Instead of room temp air, cooling with warm air instead?
Id like to see this tested as well. Ive heard anecdotal evidence that prints improve overal with both an enclosure and some fan cooling but no in depth analysis.
Hi Stefan. Didn't the Fiberthree filament on your 09/03/2019 video outperforme this PC? Please explain.
If you want the true king of filaments, try Novamid 1030CF10. Quite expensive, but it has better specs in terms of E-modulus and tensile strength even when tested in the wrong direction. When tested in the right direction (so the carbon fibers do their job), you can expect an E-modulus of almost four times as high as PC (7.5 vs. 2 GPa) and a tensile strength of almost twice as high (110 vs. 60 MPa). I'm interested on seeing a Charpy test on that, though! Edit: print quality may also improve a lot compared to PC, I've seen some amazing prints.
It would be cool to see 5 degree increments due to some printers ( mine maxing out at 265 degrees being the flashforge adventure 4) to see the strength and print quality
I was wondering if this material is better than nylon x for a small combat robot frame. Thanks for any advice.
Since the lite is like half the price I think a test of that would be cool
When do we get PolyMaker PA-6 GF/CF Industrial filament testing??? :P
It would be really nice to see a video comparision of BMG extruder vs common BMG clones (like triangle lab, dotbit, full metal mellow, transparent mellow, etc.). But I guess you have too much work to do it. Nonetheless great video as always!
the full metall ones are realy nice for heeted chamber printers no use as directdrive caus they are to heavy
Would you recommend printing this material with an enclosure? Are there issues with fumes when printing this without an enclosure?
What's your experience with part strength & layer adhesion with these sorts of materials on Prusa printers with and without enclosures?
Stefan, would you want to check out the strength of Solvay PPSU / Ultem 9085 samples? I can print some if you want
The other test I would love to see somone do is a frictional wear test
I would love to know what material would make the longest lasting gear for a gearbox that spins for long durations with a reasonably low load
Can you make a video of printing PC on Ender 3 with all metal hot-end, or what are the strongest materials you can print with Ender 3, really like your videos.
When printing white filaments it would be interesting to apply a black wash to make the details pop.
I'd really like to see you do some testing with Carbon Fiber infused materials such as NylonX, Onyx by Markforged, or the CarbonX line by 3DXTech. I know you did a video with the Colorfabb stuff but I didn't think that stuff was very good compared to others.
Hallo Stephan,
Was würdest du für technische Gegenstände bevorzugen? Nylon mit Carbonfasern oder polycarbonat?
Könntest du ggf Mal die beiden Vergleichen?
Lg
could we devise a method that melts up already present layers to improve adhesion?
I've read that PC needs to be Annealed to remove residual stresses in the print. I wonder if the 270C at 15% with annealing would have higher strength?
I'd love to see a video on the 3D scanner! Looks very cool and useful!
Hi Stephan! I bought the Polymaker
Polymax PC black to use on my 3ntr A4 v3, what do you think is the most suitable support material for the Polymaker
Polymax PC ?? Need hot room?? thank you ! Alexander
Have you investigated injecting something into the infill to increase strength? When the print is complete inject a glue or binder into the voids in the infill?
Do you use fan speed depending on layer print time? Slic3r has the option and it can help with print quality of small layers, while big ones already appear in your video to print nice at 270°C
Next, you should do a review of high impact polystyrene filament so we can compare.
Will do!
So what about this compared to nylon X? As far as strength which would be a better option?
I'd be interested in long term permanent load resillience of this (and other) plastics. I had parts made from natural unpigmented colorfabb PLA-PHA blend (it has a yellowish color and is weakly translucent) unter pernanent high load conditions. Due to its translucency I could see many many micocracks near the surface that had formed without the parts breaking right away. PLA-PHA is actually a good material just not for applications with permanent high loads. Given I have no heated bed I switched to carbon fiber filled PETG (XT-CF20) as only viable seeming option. But this material is completely opaque black with rough surface. So now I can't see if cracks are forming.
If only PolyMax PC was a pure PC filament. I wish they were clearer about it being a blend of polymers (likely a blend of PC and PBT, based on the density and melt temperature) on their site, but you have to hunt down an MSDS for it before they tell you it's only 70-90% PC. FWIW, a true PC filament should require extruder temps around 300c rather than around 260c like Polymakers' stuff.
It makes sense why they do it they lower the required temperature to make it much more accessible so more people can buy and use their "polycarbonate" blend.
@@infernaldaedra it's definitely easier to print, that's for sure. And waaaay easier to anneal. But it's also not quite as strong. :)
Could you do a review with some carbon fiber PC filament such as Priline carbon fiber PC? The carbon fiber should reduce warping and also increase strength in the x&y.
It would be interesting if you compared different polycarbonate filaments (3dxtech, protopasta, etc) because they all claim really different numbers, and use different material mixes.
Id like to see its print ability more. is it possible to make large flat prints without warping? compared to PETG, ABS, Nylon. its major competitors
I tried printing parts for my 3d printer with it, and they were really brittle, and every part eventually cracked in half, not even at the layer lines, but even sometimes perpendicular. I reprinted in PETG, and it's held up perfectly. What did I do wrong? I even annealed it.
260C hot end, 100C bed, and 0% fan.
I used buildtak, and a raft, and it was super stuck down, no bed lifting.
How many walls are you using for your part and Infill? 100c on the bed is maybe also a bit overkill for PETG. You say you reprinted in PETG were you using a different material beforehand? If so what type and brand? Typically for decent strength 3 walls or shell perimeters is enough for most prints but I have used up to 5 for stronger parts. Also the part cooling shouldn't cause an issue with PETG you do want the fan off for the first few layers by afterwards go ahead and turn it on. PETG when it is thin is pretty flexible but with solid parts it behaves alot more like glass and can shatter it is actually a incredibly strong filament as it can take alot more abuse before breaking compared to pla.
CNC Kitchen I am curious about the extrusion test model you show at 3:12. Would you mind sharing where you got it or put it? Thanks.
Here you go: www.thingiverse.com/thing:3695183
Stefan: Wouldn’t it be at 11:12 that the Standing printed Hook fails earlier than 80% expected because the fixture hooks are offset from the perpendicular axis of the failing layers... so the crack would initiate and propagate right to left, rather than engage full layer area at once.
Could you test Prusa PC Blend with your methods as a comparison?
Hi Stefan, I built a PID controlled heated enclosure and realize my PETG MK3S Won’t really stand up to high temperatures. Do you think the print quality with this PC is sufficient for MK3S parts?
Here's Polymakers recommendations:
"Printing Speed:
30mm/s - 50mm/s
Bed Temperature:
90˚C - 105˚C
Bed Surface:
MAGIGOO PC
BUILDTAK
Cooling Fan:
OFF
Drying Settings:
80˚C for 8h
Recommended Support Materials:
PolySupport™
When printing with PolyMax™ PC it is recommended to use an enclosure. For large part it is recommended to use a heated chamber.
It is recommended to anneal the printed part right after the printing process to release the residual internal stress.
Annealing settings: 100˚C for 2h"
Can you please do a review on NylonX (Nylon + Carbon Fiber Filament)?
If it follows normal trends it will gain a decent ammount of stiffness but lose overall strength if its chopped carbon fiber. Not sure about continous fiber filaments
Hi where can I find the print for the layeradhesion specimens. The cillinder with half spheres on both ends?
another ripper video. good science.