@@zolfyl8816 Yup plus when will they put year and cc size head to head 250 2 stroke against 250 4stroke ? when i had my Mean dark forest Green H2 750 triple 2 stroke i never lost a race against 4 stroke 750s jus saying :)
Advancement in design not just the motor. Suspension geometry etc makes the new bikes easier to ride. The old bikes had character like Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde
I was riding 2 strokes in the late 70’s early 80’s. They were everywhere on the road and off. Lots of trail bikes were popular on road. At the time 4 strokes seemed old fashioned and sluggish. Happy days.
@@Deontjie yep there's a whole video on why two strokes are no more bc 4 strokes make more power there faster now they cost more to fix is the biggest down side to 4 strokes everything else is a W
I had a 1983 Honda CR480. It never seemed fair to me that the 400cc four strokes got to compete against the 250cc two strokes. My guess is most young people today have not experienced the awesome powerband of a two stroke. They need to bring them back, they truly are the essence of motocross. And so much easier to work on, fewer moving parts. You can change out pistons and rings so fast.
@@ibewillow Yeah, the pros race 4 strokes because they’re way worse. Do people really not know that modern 4 stroke race bikes aren’t like an ‘85 XR? They also don’t seem to see the benefits of running an entire race in 2 gears.
@@ServeraServera0 Nope.I lived on a track for years and never got tired of hearing a well ridden 2 stroke on the pipe. 4 strokes get annoying quick.Even when you`re riding them good ,they don`t sound fast
Two stroke is still my favorite in the mountains. Four strokes are great as well, but the two stroke is and always will be my choice in off road bikes.
@@gmanlimitedanderson-0drisc211 The power is way smoother and predictable on a 4 stroke, and theres engine braking like in a car. Im sure that would feel crazy to you lol. Going from a two stroke to a 4 you kinda feel like your gonna get thrown over the bars when you let off the throttle
Man idk. I'd prefer that sound that they put on the new e mussel car. Electric mussel car. With a Electric mussel car sound. Wonder how a e dirt bike sound with a Electric 2 stroke noise. Lmao. 😂
It's guys like you Max that keep the passion of true moto alive. It's easy for old men like me to sit on the porch in a rocking chair smoking a cigar mumbling how good mx was when a cloud of blue 2 stroke smoke was left behind the line after the gate dropped, but it takes someone with mx in their heart to be making videos about it when they aren't even 30 years old. I hope you make it to the States and can race my 83 KX125 at Unadilla,Southwick or Binghamton
AHHH the smell of premix was almost as sweet as the sounds of a herd of 2 strokes racing to turn one in a huge pack like a swarm of really pissed off hornets LOL
I had a 2005 RM250 around 12 years ago. That bike was an absolute animal. It would pull up the front tire in 5th gear lol. They’re so much fun. Miss my two strokes.
lol I also had a 2005 rm250 about 12 years ago , was my favorite bike I’ve ever owned , the power it made compared to my 01 cr250 was night and day , it was also the only bike I ever got seriously hurt on , after 3 broken ribs a broken collar bone and a concussion I was forced to sell it and still regret ever getting rid of it .
@ the guy I got mine off of was an A class rider and I guess he wrecked the bike in a rhythm section and was hurt bad enough he was on life support for a couple weeks. Traded it to me for a CRF150R I had for his son to race. I flipped that bike backwards and got a peg in my back and then got a 2nd degree burn down my whole arm lol that bike was too wicked.
They had to add 200cc to the four strokes just to compete with the 2 strokes. That says it all right there. Run a 250 2T against a 250 4T and see what's faster!
@@fastballfilms4214 Without handicaps? No chance! A 500cc two strokes power to weight ratio is way higher. The limiting factor is how long you can fight with the beast, as they are very demanding on the rider.
Good video Max. Two different riding styles required to ride top notch. Suzuki looks and sounds really good. That Bills pipe and silencer work well together. jetting really sounded crisp and clean. Thanks for doing this video, enjoyed watching. Glad rider was ok from his big get off.
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Love the 2wee and if I had to buy a new bike it would definitely be a 2wee! My son races the GNCC series currently on a GG 250 4 stroke in fact I’m heading out to Florida at noon today and gonna go to the Supercross in Daytona!! My kids and my grandson make it there every year since 14 ! Sorry got off subject 😂 but I still love the 2 stroke and love the test you and your mates do! Thanks man
Imagine where the 2 strokes would be had they kept being developed. We used to take the '90 cr500 on the ice, couldn't keep the front wheel down. It was bored out as well, thing was mental.
That 2t sounds great! I grew up on 2ts (although my very first bike was an XR50 back in '89). Had a CR60, a KDX80, a KDX200, and finally my dad's '88 CR250 that I still have. I didn't get into track riding until I was in my mid 20s, and my CR was outdated equipment. It didn't take long for my buddies to convince me to "upgrade" to a 4t. So I bought a used 2003 CRF450R. Honestly, I loved that bike the moment I clicked it into gear, and I still love it. I've had that bike for 15 years and I never get tired of riding it, but whenever I jump on the old CR, I find a smile on my face that only the 2t can supply.
That RM sounded killer, even when they had a stock pipe they sounded sweet, I remember my k7 model as one of my favorite bikes.Hope the dude is ok. Iv been using CUSTOM MX for my graphics for many years they are very helpful good value and good quality. Said it before and say it again this is the best 2 smoke channel on the whole grid, keep em coming max
Definitely has been improvements in the 2-stroke department! And I really enjoy the channel and the comparison videos. Year to year or a close comparison in this case would be ideal. Again love the video regardless
@@dieselmech7227 not alot difference in the smoker department for instance Carson brown races a yz 250 at the Nationals the exact platform from 06 . A winnable machine .the ktms have become lighter and faster stock..but not night and day like the thumpers..compare a 06 ktm sxf to a 2022 model big diff
I think about it at least once a day many times a few times a day. I also wonder if they brought back the 500cc 4 cylinder sport bikes the 100cc 4 stroke would be obsolete. Much lighter and easy 200 hp like mid 80s 500 race bikes they weighed like 380lbs wet 200hp and 2 stroke power, ohhhhh mama
2stroks been around since the 60s 70s 80s 90s 2000 2010 2023....i own a 96cr250 great bike xr600 Nice bike....but my favorite bike is the crf450r 2008.....thinking about buying a yz450fx 2023...I prefer 4stks...I am getting older55
The two-stroke internal combustion engine was invented in 1881!😳 If technology hadn't improved it by 2006, not much else gonna change from then till now.
@@Malibu1515 wrong with direct injection and other things modern 2 strokes are now able to meet epa guide lines. Just read a nice article on 2 strokes making a comeback with better ecu control of fuel land air, and injection improvements. Google it had they not put it on back burners and really put money in it a 500cc grand prix bike last run in like 2002 or so at 200hp they would easily be at 250hp as that is where most developments of 2 strokes took place as that was premiere racing of 2 strokes. Enginers learn new things everyday so to say it had reached its limits shows you do not understand engineers at all
I had a 2001 rm 250 two stroke. My buddy had a brand new 2011 rm 450. I rode it. I thought it's not $7,000 better. I feel like bikes aren't getting much better than 20 years ago.
I've never had the "just shot out of a canon" feeling my old YZ-490 had on any four stroke. You aimed the 490 and pulled the trigger, in the time it took to blink you were there.
I miss my 2006 RM a lot, it was 2mm over with porting. Pulled good and smooth, handled awesome. Come on Mr. Suzuki lets pump out some new machines. Enjoyed the vid . Braaap
@@fastballfilms4214 it literally is. You have twice the fun. Four strokes only have the advantage of new suspension, chassis and electrinics cause they stoppe doing mx 2 stroke 14 years ago, exept ktms and yamahas.
Might not be a Rm but i absolutely love my CR250. The sound when its on the pipe is just perfection. Yeah the torque of the 4s is insane but the insanity of the 2 stroke power band always makes you clentch them ass cheeks and hold on for your life.
I have a 99 CR250, bought it in 2003. Love it, so fun and never a problem with it. Except I turn 45 next month and the bike is quickly becoming too fast for me because I'm old and getting fat now. Lol
Honda always had mix and match bikes. The 99s for example were great motors with crap suspension and frames. Where the 02 and up cr 250 had great everything but the motor. I had one a 2004. It was honestly the fastest 250 I've ever ridden but it had a power band as wide as an 80.
125 ring dingers are still the most fun dirtbikes to ride. I restore one back from the dead every now and then, and it's always a struggle to list it for sale. People always come back from a ride with a grin on their face, in a way that they don't on 250/450f's. My favorite is the '00-01 YZ125. They always seemed to have the best balance of chassis, motor and suspension. I have yet to ride an RM but I really would like to find a 2000's RM125 and restore it.
I have never owned a 4-stroke MX bike but I grew up on several 2-strokes up to a big bore RM250 that had terrifyingly explosive power delivery. My KLR650 was a 4-stroke and had smooth torque and excellent power but on a 400lb bike with a 220lb rider (OK I got bigger as I grew up LOL) it was more than adequate. I don't have any reference but for me, nothing will ever replace the sound and feel of a 2-stroke.
Great vid! I used to race locally a 1988 KX 125 two-stroke and loved it. I now ride a four-stroke sport touring bike but miss my two-strokes. My most beloved was a 1985 Honda MTX200 dual sport which was a two-stroke in South Africa.
I just rebuilt a 1999 Kawa kx250sr in 2022 and I can tell you that it’s considerably more expensive to get done these days and parts availability is limited compared to in 2012. 2strokes will NEVER die because of how they make us feel. Learning how to use a real powerband is magic.
my MX bike is a 2001 CR250 frame with a 1998 CR500 motor(Service Honda 500 ) I can ride it all day off the pipe turning surprisingly fast lap times while sounding much slower. It will flat wear this old man out if I try to ride it any harder. The only time I get it on the pipe is coming out of a sandy corner with plenty of runway before the next obstacle.
To this day the sound of that 2-stroke blasting through the gears brings back so many memories of my teen years in the 80s. I owned a 1978 RM-125 and all my friends rode 2-strokes as well. The sound, the power band, the smell of the premix exhaust. There's nothing like it.
You opened the powder keg of motocross war. Nice video and even a older vs. new model bike. I have two friends with blown up 2022 four strokes. That Suzuki was a well tuned machine. I think it’s the sound of the radical power band that makes people like 2 strokes.. POW !
a lot of lads abuse the bikes and dont do maintenance, i know a lot myself who constantly blow bikes up and complain to the garage meanwhile they sit on rev limiter the whole time theyre out, goes for 2 and 4 strokes
Rode both. Loved the throttle response on the 2 stroke. A 4 stroke will never have that kind of throttle response. I would choose the 2 stroke any day over the 4.
I don't think they've made a 4-stroke motocross bike yet that is as long-lived and dependable as the old smokers. When you lighten and tune a 4-stroke to run with the fastest 2-strokes, you will definitely sacrifice a degree of durability. All those extra moving parts that have been whittled down to their smallest possible size and weight are a recipe for wear and failure. The old 2-strokes, with just their cranks, rods and pistons for major moving parts, were just easier for regular people to own, keep running and enjoy for years and years. You could also kick start one with your hand - literally! I miss 'em.
Top video mate! There's just something raw and delicious about a 2E spooling up that a 4T will never match! Way back to the early years, the sound of the MX's,TM's, CR's and Huskies, CZ's and Hodakas ripping it for turn one will never be forgotten. And, add that Klotz oil for the smell and Nirvana is just over the next jump!
Loved my Husky CR250. Went everywhere with it: mountains, deep woods, mud, tundra, wouldn’t’ve traded it for the world. Then in my old age (57-ish) I rode a Christini 450 thumper with front wheel drive and recluse clutch, and I could point that puppy straight up a mountain side and go places I would have really struggled with on the Husky, and it was a cake walk. I gained a real appreciation for the 4s torque, plus the extra pull from the front wheel meant I didn’t have to lay on the handlebars to keep the front end down while simultaneously keeping traction. (some places have long, steep climbs, like near the tops of mountains) That was an awesome bike.
2022 Vet class at Loretta, older fella raced Maico 490 (81), vs 2022 450 and finished top 25. . Amazing. Ryan hushes last year raced 85 cr250 against modern machinery in 40+ and finished 3rd overall. They are still competitive, and cheap to operate.
My buddy kept telling me to get a 250 or 450 4 stroke when I was looking for a bike. Being a fan of 2 strokes since I was young I ended up getting a 2002 rm250 and I'm glad I did, It's a fun bike to ride. The suspension isn't as good as his 450 but that could just because of the age of my bike. Plus 2 strokes just sound awesome
Four-strokes still sound weird to me. My son thinks two-strokes sound annoying. Different experiences I guess. I absolutely love the smell of race fuel and MC1 and the howl of a high RPM two stroke flying down a straight. It never gets old. My son thought all the old two-strokes were super slow until he rode my wife's 86 ATC 250R. He couldn't believe it. That thing is heavy and detuned. The CRs were much quicker. Now, about the CR 500R...
Niiiice! Love that sound. Was racing a 1981 (shorter stroke) RM250 grass kart for many years. Had a custom pipe, programable CDI with flat shift trigger, and ran on av gas. It sounded even crisper than this later RM! With a rev limit at 9,500 it would wind up pretty hard! Great fun, but needed plenty of respect too ;)
Reminds me of my teenage days. Started with a Keystone minibike at 12 (two stroke with clutch) then a Yamaha 80 then Suzuki RM125. Eventually ended up on the Kawasaki KX250. Back then I would sometimes use Castor oil for pre-mix. Love that smell. Had a Suzuki GT550 for a street bike. Two stroke all the way!!! Yes kids, that was in the mid 70's to mid 80's
In all honesty it just comes down to the 4 strokes being much easier and "lazier" to ride, the two strokes you have to be on the ball the whole time and are much more tiring to ride. I'm no racer so that doesn't apply to me so I'll be sticking to my 2 stroke madness for a while yet
This. I only had a 350 2 stroke streetbike, but it was NOT an easy riding bike. It was a FUN bike, but you were either givin' er' s*** or you weren't. Very little in between. When it was stock with the stock pipes, it was a wider powerband of course, but once the race pipes went on, all the porting work, jetting, etc, the difference of 1000 RPM was the difference of the front wheel being off the ground or looking like it wasn't running. 5K in top gear, it would barely hold speed wide open. And I mean *barely*. Once it hit 6K though, that's when the fun started. The noise sure didn't win me any popularity contests though. Ah, to be young again. :)
Pretty much! Honestly, it was a fairly ridable bike when it was stock though. I just got ridiculously carried away. My goal was to make as much power as I could with regular gasoline (Well, 100 octane low lead av gas anyway). Man was she fun once it was on the pipe!
Sold my rmz450 for a fully restored rm250 by a long time mx race mechanic. I had alot more falls on hard turns with the rmz450 too. I just love the sound and smell of the castor 927 when I'm ripping on the track and have my fiancée on an 85 so I can always hear and smell that sweet 2 stroke
2 stroke yesteday, now and forever. If a new 4 stoke 450 is 1" quicker then a 14 years old 2 stroke 250, there's no evolution. In 14 years 2 stroke never stopped improving, just think about the artic cat snowmobile: 800 cc 160 hp, twin cilynder. Just imagine a 400cc dirt bike with 80hp... Aside from engine performance, tyres and suspensions made their part, so I think really there is no evolution with the 4 bangers. And let's not speak about maintenance.... I have no dirt bikes experience whatsoer, but I love my 1993 RD350, bought back in 1994 and still riding. Great video, great sound, thanks a lot!!!
I had a 2008 RM250 with the unplated Pro Circuit Works Pipe and shorty silencer. Sounded just like this bike. Never met a person who didn't love the sound of it. A snarling, spitting beast.
the last suzuki RM250's were known as the most powerful 2 stroke of all the manufacturers. there were a few things that contributed to that but the biggest were the power jet design in the carb and the form of reeds used. I had an rm250 for a long time and it outran the 4 strokes of its day pretty well.
Another great video. 4 stroke singles are the worst noise in the automotive world. They sound like diarrhea farts. That RM sounds epic and I know if putting a smile on my dial was the aim, the RM would be my choice every time.
I know around a track I'll ride way faster on my dad's sxf250 than my 05 kx250 but the kx is just my favourite bike ever. Solid, reliable, fun, but maybe a bit unpredictable. When the motor was on its last legs after 8 years of riding and I don't know how many hours I tore it down and found the skirt of the piston was cracked and about to totally let go but it just kept going. Very tough bike.
I think part of the fun of riding a 2 stroke comes from the bike being a little unpredictable. At least with the 250. I raced a yz250 2t and no matter how good you thought you were it always had to be treated with a little respect, or it would catch you by surprise
as someone that owns an 02' RM250 and a 21' CRF250R, I can say that the RM is fun when you can rip it wide open at the dunes or anywhere that you are just wanting to put some wide open miles in. My 250R however, its super smooth power delivery, front end is much more planted, bike geometry feels better in almost every way and its a lot less taxing on you to ride. For these reasons, my RM is basically a garage ornament and I take the honda when I go to the track.
It will be good to know how much the 14 years of evolution of the 450's chassis, weight, suspension and breaks influenced in the 450's advantage over the 2 stroke 250. Cheers
You're always just as happy when you see a video with old 2 stroke's bikes that prove that you can have fun and go fast with an old bike.. I myself have an RM 250 2007 :)
I love the two stroke engine...and I once for everyday transport rode a 2001 Honda 'Repsol' NSR150SP (single cylinder - two stroke) for about 2 years or so. Even though it was a small bike with a small engine...it was a bunch of fun - and quick for it's engine size. Awesome video by the way...thanks!🙂
@@Grumpy_CBG I was going through my old bike stuff yesterday and found a sales receipt from 2003 where I bought a '89 RZ350 that was in great shape for $2300, the same price I got for a ratty RZ500 six years previous. Had I kept both of them, I'd be sitting on a lot of bike money.
@@rogerpitre8663 yep, me too, bikes, cars, guitar amps, back in the past when I was a young bloke, be rolling in cash no if I would have held on all that gear
The 4-stroke ruined the future of the sport being accessible. The 2-stroke still allowed talented amateurs a chance to break through into the professional scene. Moto-x was always a costly sport, but it’s now becoming a sport of the elites
I tried pretty hard to land a good 06+ RM250 but ended up with a decent 03 YZ250 instead. It’s a great bike, no complaints, but I still find myself checking the classifieds occasionally. lol
I still have my 06' RC replica RM 250!! About 7K in upgrades / A-kit and all that. I have two newer Husky's here.....and still to this day , the RM is probably the most perfect 250 2 stroke ever made.
2-stroke engines are simply more energetic. 4-stroke dirtbikes never had that urgency of excitement. Hearing them back to back is like all the fun just ended when the 4-stroke arrived. Lol
When 2 strokes left road bike track days it all went downhill too, if you ask me. All of a sudden everyone had new Ducatis and it turned into a rich boys club.
@@nigel6548 Checked out some vids on pre production models. Still weird to see no kick starter. Interested to see if they bring a wireless module out for troubleshooting and remapping on the fly. I've seen it on a Vertigo Trials bike with a wireless module and looks like an awesome option for privateers and general riders.
I have a TM 300 MX 2022. It is an MX tuned 300 2 stroke. It is a very fast bike. It also is counterbalanced with a flywheel weight so it tracks smooth with minimal wheelspin. Puts power to the ground easy. It would eat a 250f for breakfast, and I have no problem keeping pace with and battling with 450 riders of comparable skill level. I came off a YZ125 big bore, and I would get yarded by less skilled guys on 450s, and would have to divebomb corners and pass them in turns. Now those guys eat rocks off my back tire. I have ridden 450's, and my bike turns better, accelerates harder, and has zero engine braking. BUT, the huge thing is that 4 strokes can rev to 2x the RPM. The 300 makes more torque, but it caps at 48HP because it falls flat at high revs and needs to be short-shifted.
No comments on this yet! When I see and SMELL that 2stroke oil exhaust, I begin salivating! & tripping out missing the old days. Loved hill climbing & trail riding the mountains of N. Utah.
2T vs 4T is a bit like 2WD vs 4WD, different beasts, different ways to tame them. The 2’s are definitely more fun, the 4’s once tamed are ultimately faster, speed around a track is directly determined by grip. I remember back in the second half of the 80’s my friend Husqvarna 250 2T, during high school he was competing and we were using the school facilities to prepare, service and customise it, we were all studying mechanical engineering and thermodynamics, we were building the exhausts, working on fuel intakes, gears, we created a killer monster, no one was able to take of in first gear on tarmac and only the bravest in second, it was a wheels up to 5th, we created a perfect field ploughing machine, in the end for him to actually be competitive on the track we had to tune it back down.
if he’s accustomed to that 4 stroke and has ridden that competitively for years, but hasn’t hardly touched a 2 stroke, then the lap times are obviously going to be effected. He could definitely shave some time off the 2 stroke time after more practice.
@@Ralfostman 2 strokes have a much narrower power band than a 4 stroke, so you have to work it different to make sure you stay within that power band effectively. For someone that's not a 2 stroke rider, shaving a second off the 4 stroke is pretty great. Just shows the potential 2 strokes have over similar sized 4 strokes
@@Ralfostman There's a few, engine braking, torque v HP and most importantly where in the rev range they occur. A four stroke will be more forgiving in the wrong gear because in general they have a broader power band and on the flip side a 2 stroke that's geared to suit a track will launch out of the corners way quicker.
Glad that Ed is ok. Great video. I remember Micheal Pichon winning 2 MXGP championships in 2001 and 2002 on the RM250. He gave Everts a good run in 2003 on the RM250 but Everts had the 4 stroke?yamaha at that point . I never thought it was right to have 250 2 strokes in a class with 4 strokes that are double the displacement. I always said they should be in the 250 class with the 250f bikes. I’ve got an 02 RM 250 that is the best MX bike I’ve ever owned and it’s in my Will to go to my sons👍🏼
I'm restoring my 97 I bought in highschool. But all the original parts you can before they're gone! So much stuff is discontinued and isn't supported by aftermarket.
The difference between 250 2 stroke and 4 stroke is 10 hp more for the 2 stroke and the diference between a 250 2 stroke and a 450 4 stroke is only 4 hp but thats with all 3 bikes new with new technology also for the 2 stroke (yamaha ) i looked it upp before in another whats best 2 or 4 My choice would go to the screaming 2 stroke over that tuned up lawnmower everyday 😃😃 did you ever see carmichael vs everts in zolder belgium mx of nations i was there was nice to see
2003 RM 500cc was the last 2 stroke bike I raced, 20 years ago, you just turned the throttle, stared at the sky and passed everything on one wheel. Absolute beast! And not forgetting, if you slupped on the kick, the kick back would break a leg, could only be started with full motox boots on lol
I think a big factor here is the softish terrain of that track. I always felt really fast on my old RM on these types of tracks. A four stroke has a huge advantage on hard pack, or slick clay tracks and also flat or off camber corners. A two stroke slides all over the place in those conditions. It is exhausting and you will make mistakes. Unfortunately east coast of Australia doesn’t have many sandy or loamy tracks so sadly I gave up and went to the dark side.
My 81 KX420 upgeared to the max must have been knocking on the door of 90 mph !! It sure felt like it when I came to a very sudden stop ! That's the painful bit , but to this day I don't regret a single minute of it !! You know you're alive 😁😁 I think that's why my 89 rm250 lives next to the bed ! Far safer 👍👍👍
I went from a 70s XR70 or75 Honda to a brand new CR80 in 1981 when I was 11 years old. The only 2 stroke I had rode before that was a GT80. The very first time I rode it I had no idea how hard it was gonna hit and wasn't holding on like I should. It literally almost shot out from underneath me. I instantly loved it lol.
In 1978 I had a YZ125E. It made peak power at a shrieking 11,000 rpm. All top, no torque. It would not match today’s power, but it was air cooled and only weighed 198 lbs. And yes, it was fun to fling around.
I raced a '79 YZ 125, same powerband. I really loved that bike even though managing the power was a lot of work. WOT howl was awesome. Wish I still had it.
I never rode a dirt bike, but I did own an air cooled single cylinder 135cc Yamaha in India since 2002 which I ported and polished with updated internals and a loud pipe! That thing was mental, and I still miss its raw power delivery with zero pull down low but mad acceleration post 6000rpm all the way until 9000 revs. These 2 strokes really teach you the importance of maintaining machines properly and handling that insane surge of power!
@@fastballfilms4214 they are faster. That's a fact. Just look at a Dyno of a yz 250 and a yz 250f. The two stroke makes more power. And don't tell me to compare it to a 450, that's literal retardation. You don't compare two things to see if one is better but give the other thing a hanicap
@@fastballfilms4214 the only reason anyone races 4 strokes is because environmental laws made 2 strokes illegal in some of the major markets. Fact is for the same capacity, 2 strokes are faster. That's why the 250 class of 2 strokes became 450 in 4 strokes. When the 500cc gp bikes switched to 4 strokes they DOUBLED in capacity.
I was a Yamaha, Honda and Kawasaki shop mechanic in the '80s and I loved working on and test riding the 2 strokes. My personal bike was a 2 stroke Husqvarna 250. Wish I had that bike today.
With pro riders the 4 strokes will always have faster lap times. They have massive torque from top to bottom so you don't have to be on the pipe the whole time. But idgaf. The 2 strokes are way more fun to ride. The way the power comes on is explosive and a blast. Whack the throttle and hang wheelies in almost every gear. Clutchless power shifts at 10k rpm. Massive corner speeds and burm blasts. VP race fuel and maxima castor oil smells amazing. The sound they make. I love them. I'm not a racer so Ima stick with the 2 strokes.
@@xfdfff2620 that’s why I said depending on the rider. Cause with the the port work an pipe setup on a 2t you’ll have a rocket but it can be a light switch an if you can’t hold on to it, an keep it on the pipe/powerband. A 450, even 250 4strokes will walk all over a 2t 250 yeah they do have a advantage all that torque they make 😮💨
4 stroke dirtbikes scare the hell out of me. They are strung out to the limit and when they blow up, its easily a complete catastrophic failure. Theyre heavier and make less HP per/cc than a 2 stroke and are 10x more complicated. I feel like companies didnt like that racers could rebuild their engine at home.. They needed more dealership visits.
I ran a 11 crf450 for about 2 years with just basic maintenance. But I did always feel un easy for it to blow! I then had a 16 crf450 and boy it was fast but couldn't gel with the weight. Now back on an 02 cr250, and although I've had quicker I'll never sell
They changed to four stroke because government intervention. The environmental regulators changing in mid 1990’s. The four stroke burns less fuel, oil than a two stroke. Therefore less emissions. Motorcycles, garden, lawn motors, chainsaws, marine equipment mostly made the change to fourstroke. However some companies took to making the two stroke cleaner (KTM), along with oil companies making oils synthetic that can burn 50:1…100:1. Now environmental regulation is trying to strangle the fossil fuel burning vehicles completely. Usher in 100% battery powered machines.
I raced mx in 1972-75, 2 stroke Yamaha 250mx. I loved it, but the one everyone wanted to ride was the Maco 250 or 400. Such low end power, low rumble. One of the coolest looking bikes.
@@noidontthinksolol so your pretty sure that a 125cc 2 stroke aprillia engine CANNOT do 129MPH .......after gearing after race tuning after bigger carb you still belive that it cannot do near 129mph it's funny because you clearly never touched a 2 stroke bike in your life end off later mush
Race lap times would be better than single lap times simply because of the competition pushing you to the edge. Thank you for sharing. Have a blessed day.
Most of us who still own two strokes could give a damn about winning the race or not. Because unless you are some top-level Rider, it doesn't really matter. It's more of the fun-factor and the ease of Maintenance and servicing, As well as how everyone loves it when you come to the track. It's as simple as that. I have both 2-stroke and 4-stroke, and my YZ300 2-stroke is still my favorite, even though the bike is 17 years old vs my brand new CRF450RWE.
Ahh yeah they were wrong. And who the hell decided it was a good idea to let 450 4 strokes race in the 250 class. That alone tells me all I need to know. 2 strokes rule. Not to mention limiting compression and fuel type on 2 strokes to de tune them even more. Gotta cheat the 2 strokes out of it. 4 strokes suuuck. And they cost an arm and a leg to repair/build and after 2 to 3 years you might as well trash them and get a new one. 2 stroke 4 life
There is something impressive and awe-inspiring about hearing a deep humming four-stroke with only half the number of revolutions jerk violently and jerkily from a squealing two-stroke that revs so much that the engine is about to explode, and yet it does not move appreciably in relation to it fearsome and deep-humming four-strokes with only half the number of revolutions.
Great video Max, loving the action shot's at the track absolutely fantastic work, your not wrong the RM sounds brilliant, in my book the RM wins hands down, great work again Max, looking forward to the next video.
Great video,BUT... It's not fair to just running a lap against the clock! Why? Well if you have one bad corner you can lose over a second,if you have 2 or 3 bad corners... well you get the point. You should going for a couple of starts, maybe on a very long straight and using different kind of surface. Sand,hardpack and so on. That's much better and more fair than just running a lap against the clock. It's not easy to do a fair test,but in my opinion that's the best way to see witch bike is the fastest! But i really like your videos so keep sharing 🙌🙏
A 2 stroke on the pipe running through gears Never gets old...adrenaline every time...LONG LIVE THE TWOEEE!!!
a motorcross 2 stroke with modern tecnology would piss on a 4 stroke,
@@zolfyl8816 Yup plus when will they put year and cc size head to head 250 2 stroke against 250 4stroke ? when i had my Mean dark forest Green H2 750 triple 2 stroke i never lost a race against 4 stroke 750s jus saying :)
I have a rd 400
@@albertchavez2693 Nonsense comparison, it's illogical to compare them on the same cc. (And I love 2T)
Advancement in design not just the motor. Suspension geometry etc makes the new bikes easier to ride. The old bikes had character like Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde
I was raised in the '90s and I will forever love a two-stroke. There's nothing like it
Old two strokes had almost double the power, for a far shorter power band. But I still prefer my four stroke.
I was riding 2 strokes in the late 70’s early 80’s. They were everywhere on the road and off. Lots of trail bikes were popular on road. At the time 4 strokes seemed old fashioned and sluggish. Happy days.
I still have my Kawasaki KX250 I bought new in 1995 sitting in my garage. I love riding 2 strokes….
Based
@@Deontjie yep there's a whole video on why two strokes are no more bc 4 strokes make more power there faster now they cost more to fix is the biggest down side to 4 strokes everything else is a W
I had a 1983 Honda CR480. It never seemed fair to me that the 400cc four strokes got to compete against the 250cc two strokes. My guess is most young people today have not experienced the awesome powerband of a two stroke. They need to bring them back, they truly are the essence of motocross. And so much easier to work on, fewer moving parts. You can change out pistons and rings so fast.
They never went anywhere. You can buy a 2023 250 2 stroke MX bike and you can even buy 500cc kits for them.
@@ibewillow he means in racing numbskull
@@sebas-et3gy Pretty sure you can still race amature on them and if youre a pro, you dont want to ride one cos theyre slow.
@@ibewillow
Yeah, the pros race 4 strokes because they’re way worse. Do people really not know that modern 4 stroke race bikes aren’t like an ‘85 XR? They also don’t seem to see the benefits of running an entire race in 2 gears.
@@ibewillow no that's because 250 2t have to compete against a 450 4t
There is absolutely nothing like the sound of a 2 stroke!!! Oh, the memories!!!
They all sound the same, when you are around these bikes almost everyday you get tired of it
@@ServeraServera0 That's idiotic...
@@ServeraServera0 Nope.I lived on a track for years and never got tired of hearing a well ridden 2 stroke on the pipe. 4 strokes get annoying quick.Even when you`re riding them good ,they don`t sound fast
“I know you guys don’t want to hear the 4 stroke so I’ve edited the clip”
Damn you know us well 😂
Thanks for all you do for 2 strokes!
4 strokes sound like aas
If I hear a 2 stroke there can be 10 4 strokes around it I cannot hear them as my ears like a dogs hears the highs not the fart can lows LOL
Two stroke is still my favorite in the mountains. Four strokes are great as well, but the two stroke is and always will be my choice in off road bikes.
What's the main difference between the 2 and the 4 ? I've only ever ridden a 2 stroke way back
@@gmanlimitedanderson-0drisc211 The power is way smoother and predictable on a 4 stroke, and theres engine braking like in a car. Im sure that would feel crazy to you lol. Going from a two stroke to a 4 you kinda feel like your gonna get thrown over the bars when you let off the throttle
@@joshlarocca5321 lol 👍 cheers Budd
@@gmanlimitedanderson-0drisc211 2 stroke has more power per cc
2 strokes dominate the off-road scene
No 4-stroke will ever sound as good as a 2-stroke, ever.
You are right
Correct
Man idk. I'd prefer that sound that they put on the new e mussel car. Electric mussel car. With a Electric mussel car sound. Wonder how a e dirt bike sound with a Electric 2 stroke noise. Lmao. 😂
Different strokes for different folks. 😊
@@RARufus very clever, mate
It's guys like you Max that keep the passion of true moto alive. It's easy for old men like me to sit on the porch in a rocking chair smoking a cigar mumbling how good mx was when a cloud of blue 2 stroke smoke was left behind the line after the gate dropped, but it takes someone with mx in their heart to be making videos about it when they aren't even 30 years old.
I hope you make it to the States and can race my 83 KX125 at Unadilla,Southwick or Binghamton
Unadilla is and always will be one of my favorites
AHHH the smell of premix was almost as sweet as the sounds of a herd of 2 strokes racing to turn one in a huge pack like a swarm of really pissed off hornets LOL
I had a 2005 RM250 around 12 years ago. That bike was an absolute animal. It would pull up the front tire in 5th gear lol. They’re so much fun. Miss my two strokes.
lol I also had a 2005 rm250 about 12 years ago , was my favorite bike I’ve ever owned , the power it made compared to my 01 cr250 was night and day , it was also the only bike I ever got seriously hurt on , after 3 broken ribs a broken collar bone and a concussion I was forced to sell it and still regret ever getting rid of it .
@ the guy I got mine off of was an A class rider and I guess he wrecked the bike in a rhythm section and was hurt bad enough he was on life support for a couple weeks. Traded it to me for a CRF150R I had for his son to race. I flipped that bike backwards and got a peg in my back and then got a 2nd degree burn down my whole arm lol that bike was too wicked.
They had to add 200cc to the four strokes just to compete with the 2 strokes. That says it all right there.
Run a 250 2T against a 250 4T and see what's faster!
In Australia we do. It's pretty close
I'd rather do a top end on the 2-stroke.
Funny cuz a modern 450 would smoke the 500cc 2 strokes on the track…..stop your nonsense bud
I agree who decided 4 strokes get a massive handicap
@@fastballfilms4214 Without handicaps?
No chance! A 500cc two strokes power to weight ratio is way higher.
The limiting factor is how long you can fight with the beast, as they are very demanding on the rider.
Good video Max. Two different riding styles required to ride top notch. Suzuki looks and sounds really good. That Bills pipe and silencer work well together. jetting really sounded crisp and clean. Thanks for doing this video, enjoyed watching. Glad rider was ok from his big get off.
Thanks Rick,
Guys, Here is The Savior
YaH The Heavenly FATHER (Genesis 1) HIMSELF was Who they Crucified/Pierced for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF”
From the Ancient Egyptian Semitic:
"Yad He Vav He" is what Moshe (Moses) wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3)
Ancient Egyptian Semitic Direct Translation
Yad - "Behold The Hand"
He - "Behold the Breath"
Vav - "Behold The NAIL"
Love the 2wee and if I had to buy a new bike it would definitely be a 2wee! My son races the GNCC series currently on a GG 250 4 stroke in fact I’m heading out to Florida at noon today and gonna go to the Supercross in Daytona!! My kids and my grandson make it there every year since 14 ! Sorry got off subject 😂 but I still love the 2 stroke and love the test you and your mates do! Thanks man
Imagine where the 2 strokes would be had they kept being developed. We used to take the '90 cr500 on the ice, couldn't keep the front wheel down. It was bored out as well, thing was mental.
I used to absolutely love my CR 500. Best adrenaline rush ever.
Ever hear of KTM, Beta, Husky, TM or Sherco? They have 2 strokes right now which will blow the doors off of any of the old iron brand new in dealers.
Put the 2023 ktm SX 300 tbi bike out there against the 450.
@@michaelh2034 ill take that bet lol
@@michaelh2034Yamaha still makes 2 strokes
That 2t sounds great! I grew up on 2ts (although my very first bike was an XR50 back in '89). Had a CR60, a KDX80, a KDX200, and finally my dad's '88 CR250 that I still have. I didn't get into track riding until I was in my mid 20s, and my CR was outdated equipment. It didn't take long for my buddies to convince me to "upgrade" to a 4t. So I bought a used 2003 CRF450R. Honestly, I loved that bike the moment I clicked it into gear, and I still love it. I've had that bike for 15 years and I never get tired of riding it, but whenever I jump on the old CR, I find a smile on my face that only the 2t can supply.
Z50
That RM sounded killer, even when they had a stock pipe they sounded sweet, I remember my k7 model as one of my favorite bikes.Hope the dude is ok. Iv been using CUSTOM MX for my graphics for many years they are very helpful good value and good quality. Said it before and say it again this is the best 2 smoke channel on the whole grid, keep em coming max
The real test is if u put up the RM against 4s of that day..no serious improvements have been made to smokers since '06
Good point 👍
Ya not a good comparison
Except tpi, TBI, electronic power valves, mapping, jetless carbs that are worth a damn and 2t motors that actually have bottom end.
Definitely has been improvements in the 2-stroke department! And I really enjoy the channel and the comparison videos.
Year to year or a close comparison in this case would be ideal.
Again love the video regardless
@@dieselmech7227 not alot difference in the smoker department for instance Carson brown races a yz 250 at the Nationals the exact platform from 06 . A winnable machine .the ktms have become lighter and faster stock..but not night and day like the thumpers..compare a 06 ktm sxf to a 2022 model big diff
Can you imagine had two strokes continued to be improved, 20 years later just how fast would they be?
I think about it at least once a day many times a few times a day. I also wonder if they brought back the 500cc 4 cylinder sport bikes the 100cc 4 stroke would be obsolete. Much lighter and easy 200 hp like mid 80s 500 race bikes they weighed like 380lbs wet 200hp and 2 stroke power, ohhhhh mama
2stroks been around since the 60s 70s 80s 90s 2000 2010 2023....i own a 96cr250 great bike xr600
Nice bike....but my favorite bike is the crf450r 2008.....thinking about buying a yz450fx 2023...I prefer 4stks...I am getting older55
the race 500 4 2 strokes weighed mid 300 or less I know the NSR 500 was 289 dry add oil gas still 320-330 200 hp that is a monster 2 stroke
The two-stroke internal combustion engine was invented in 1881!😳
If technology hadn't improved it by 2006, not much else gonna change from then till now.
@@Malibu1515 wrong with direct injection and other things modern 2 strokes are now able to meet epa guide lines. Just read a nice article on 2 strokes making a comeback with better ecu control of fuel land air, and injection improvements. Google it had they not put it on back burners and really put money in it a 500cc grand prix bike last run in like 2002 or so at 200hp they would easily be at 250hp as that is where most developments of 2 strokes took place as that was premiere racing of 2 strokes. Enginers learn new things everyday so to say it had reached its limits shows you do not understand engineers at all
I had a 2001 rm 250 two stroke. My buddy had a brand new 2011 rm 450. I rode it. I thought it's not $7,000 better. I feel like bikes aren't getting much better than 20 years ago.
I've never had the "just shot out of a canon" feeling my old YZ-490 had on any four stroke.
You aimed the 490 and pulled the trigger, in the time it took to blink you were there.
If you could keep the front end down
First thing I said when I bought mine. Only has 4 gears, he said that's all you need and more. Scary fast
I miss my 2006 RM a lot, it was 2mm over with porting. Pulled good and smooth, handled awesome. Come on Mr. Suzuki lets pump out some new machines. Enjoyed the vid . Braaap
Thanks for watching :)
lol I have a 1999 RM250 and I love it, I upgraded from a 150 trail 4 stroke
@@dedrickmctier160 buying a 2 stroke isn’t upgrading😂
@@fastballfilms4214 it literally is. You have twice the fun. Four strokes only have the advantage of new suspension, chassis and electrinics cause they stoppe doing mx 2 stroke 14 years ago, exept ktms and yamahas.
Might not be a Rm but i absolutely love my CR250. The sound when its on the pipe is just perfection. Yeah the torque of the 4s is insane but the insanity of the 2 stroke power band always makes you clentch them ass cheeks and hold on for your life.
I have a 99 CR250, bought it in 2003. Love it, so fun and never a problem with it. Except I turn 45 next month and the bike is quickly becoming too fast for me because I'm old and getting fat now. Lol
Honda always had mix and match bikes. The 99s for example were great motors with crap suspension and frames. Where the 02 and up cr 250 had great everything but the motor. I had one a 2004. It was honestly the fastest 250 I've ever ridden but it had a power band as wide as an 80.
There is nothing like it when the reeds open and she starts to hum
..that is what makes 2 stroke way more fun to ride!!..
I'm 63 and ran a 91 CR250 with modifications for many years. I cried when I sold it. No 4S will ever be able to replace it, ever!
The Sound of the RM is really astonishing
Nice jetting!
125 ring dingers are still the most fun dirtbikes to ride. I restore one back from the dead every now and then, and it's always a struggle to list it for sale. People always come back from a ride with a grin on their face, in a way that they don't on 250/450f's. My favorite is the '00-01 YZ125. They always seemed to have the best balance of chassis, motor and suspension. I have yet to ride an RM but I really would like to find a 2000's RM125 and restore it.
Man, I miss my old Penton 125 Six Day Trials bike I had as a kid!
Being on a bike, nothing compares that 2-cycle hit!
I have never owned a 4-stroke MX bike but I grew up on several 2-strokes up to a big bore RM250 that had terrifyingly explosive power delivery. My KLR650 was a 4-stroke and had smooth torque and excellent power but on a 400lb bike with a 220lb rider (OK I got bigger as I grew up LOL) it was more than adequate. I don't have any reference but for me, nothing will ever replace the sound and feel of a 2-stroke.
Love the sound of a 2 stroke! Brings back great memories.
Damn brother looking good on that RM, smooth like butter
Great vid! I used to race locally a 1988 KX 125 two-stroke and loved it. I now ride a four-stroke sport touring bike but miss my two-strokes. My most beloved was a 1985 Honda MTX200 dual sport which was a two-stroke in South Africa.
I just rebuilt a 1999 Kawa kx250sr in 2022 and I can tell you that it’s considerably more expensive to get done these days and parts availability is limited compared to in 2012. 2strokes will NEVER die because of how they make us feel. Learning how to use a real powerband is magic.
Yamaha
Electric is better
I rode a 2003 CR500. It was one of the scariest and most exhilarating experiences I have ever had.
my MX bike is a 2001 CR250 frame with a 1998 CR500 motor(Service Honda 500 ) I can ride it all day off the pipe turning surprisingly fast lap times while sounding much slower. It will flat wear this old man out if I try to ride it any harder. The only time I get it on the pipe is coming out of a sandy corner with plenty of runway before the next obstacle.
That’s like a crotch rocket
To this day the sound of that 2-stroke blasting through the gears brings back so many memories of my teen years in the 80s. I owned a 1978 RM-125 and all my friends rode 2-strokes as well. The sound, the power band, the smell of the premix exhaust. There's nothing like it.
You opened the powder keg of motocross war. Nice video and even a older vs. new model bike. I have two friends with blown up 2022 four strokes. That Suzuki was a well tuned machine. I think it’s the sound of the radical power band that makes people like 2 strokes.. POW !
One year old 10k machine blown up. What a joke
a lot of lads abuse the bikes and dont do maintenance, i know a lot myself who constantly blow bikes up and complain to the garage meanwhile they sit on rev limiter the whole time theyre out, goes for 2 and 4 strokes
Rode both. Loved the throttle response on the 2 stroke. A 4 stroke will never have that kind of throttle response. I would choose the 2 stroke any day over the 4.
On powerband maybe but outside of that 2 strokes are laggy as hell compared to 4s you’re living in the past boomer
@@Garage.Philosophy if you know how to ride a 2t right & have it tuned right it’ll never be laggy
The modern 4 strokes actually rev at close to, if not higher rpm's than the 2 strokes do...
@@Stickbow1980they rev much higher than 2 strokes do. 250f hits limiter at 14,000.
250 2 t hits it at 9,000
I love those old 2 strokes. I'm 66 and grew up driving them. I still have a Yamaha RZ500 I bought new in 1985. It's in almost mint condition.
Rm 250 have always been a nice bike to ride. They handle so well
I don't think they've made a 4-stroke motocross bike yet that is as long-lived and dependable as the old smokers. When you lighten and tune a 4-stroke to run with the fastest 2-strokes, you will definitely sacrifice a degree of durability. All those extra moving parts that have been whittled down to their smallest possible size and weight are a recipe for wear and failure. The old 2-strokes, with just their cranks, rods and pistons for major moving parts, were just easier for regular people to own, keep running and enjoy for years and years. You could also kick start one with your hand - literally! I miss 'em.
Top video mate! There's just something raw and delicious about a 2E spooling up that a 4T will never match! Way back to the early years, the sound of the MX's,TM's, CR's and Huskies, CZ's and Hodakas ripping it for turn one will never be forgotten. And, add that Klotz oil for the smell and Nirvana is just over the next jump!
Loved my Husky CR250. Went everywhere with it: mountains, deep woods, mud, tundra, wouldn’t’ve traded it for the world. Then in my old age (57-ish) I rode a Christini 450 thumper with front wheel drive and recluse clutch, and I could point that puppy straight up a mountain side and go places I would have really struggled with on the Husky, and it was a cake walk. I gained a real appreciation for the 4s torque, plus the extra pull from the front wheel meant I didn’t have to lay on the handlebars to keep the front end down while simultaneously keeping traction. (some places have long, steep climbs, like near the tops of mountains) That was an awesome bike.
2022 Vet class at Loretta, older fella raced Maico 490 (81), vs 2022 450 and finished top 25. . Amazing. Ryan hushes last year raced 85 cr250 against modern machinery in 40+ and finished 3rd overall. They are still competitive, and cheap to operate.
Ryan raced an 86 CR250.. js
My buddy kept telling me to get a 250 or 450 4 stroke when I was looking for a bike. Being a fan of 2 strokes since I was young I ended up getting a 2002 rm250 and I'm glad I did, It's a fun bike to ride. The suspension isn't as good as his 450 but that could just because of the age of my bike. Plus 2 strokes just sound awesome
Four-strokes still sound weird to me. My son thinks two-strokes sound annoying. Different experiences I guess. I absolutely love the smell of race fuel and MC1 and the howl of a high RPM two stroke flying down a straight. It never gets old. My son thought all the old two-strokes were super slow until he rode my wife's 86 ATC 250R. He couldn't believe it. That thing is heavy and detuned. The CRs were much quicker. Now, about the CR 500R...
I’m a 2 stroke fan forever. Just the sound makes me smile. At 7:20 that RM looks very fast.
Niiiice! Love that sound. Was racing a 1981 (shorter stroke) RM250 grass kart for many years. Had a custom pipe, programable CDI with flat shift trigger, and ran on av gas. It sounded even crisper than this later RM! With a rev limit at 9,500 it would wind up pretty hard! Great fun, but needed plenty of respect too ;)
Reminds me of my teenage days. Started with a Keystone minibike at 12 (two stroke with clutch) then a Yamaha 80 then Suzuki RM125. Eventually ended up on the Kawasaki KX250. Back then I would sometimes use Castor oil for pre-mix. Love that smell. Had a Suzuki GT550 for a street bike. Two stroke all the way!!!
Yes kids, that was in the mid 70's to mid 80's
In all honesty it just comes down to the 4 strokes being much easier and "lazier" to ride, the two strokes you have to be on the ball the whole time and are much more tiring to ride. I'm no racer so that doesn't apply to me so I'll be sticking to my 2 stroke madness for a while yet
This. I only had a 350 2 stroke streetbike, but it was NOT an easy riding bike. It was a FUN bike, but you were either givin' er' s*** or you weren't. Very little in between. When it was stock with the stock pipes, it was a wider powerband of course, but once the race pipes went on, all the porting work, jetting, etc, the difference of 1000 RPM was the difference of the front wheel being off the ground or looking like it wasn't running. 5K in top gear, it would barely hold speed wide open. And I mean *barely*. Once it hit 6K though, that's when the fun started. The noise sure didn't win me any popularity contests though. Ah, to be young again. :)
…all or nothing. Just like a weed eater lol
Pretty much! Honestly, it was a fairly ridable bike when it was stock though. I just got ridiculously carried away. My goal was to make as much power as I could with regular gasoline (Well, 100 octane low lead av gas anyway). Man was she fun once it was on the pipe!
Sold my rmz450 for a fully restored rm250 by a long time mx race mechanic. I had alot more falls on hard turns with the rmz450 too. I just love the sound and smell of the castor 927 when I'm ripping on the track and have my fiancée on an 85 so I can always hear and smell that sweet 2 stroke
2 stroke yesteday, now and forever. If a new 4 stoke 450 is 1" quicker then a 14 years old 2 stroke 250, there's no evolution. In 14 years 2 stroke never stopped improving, just think about the artic cat snowmobile: 800 cc 160 hp, twin cilynder. Just imagine a 400cc dirt bike with 80hp...
Aside from engine performance, tyres and suspensions made their part, so I think really there is no evolution with the 4 bangers. And let's not speak about maintenance....
I have no dirt bikes experience whatsoer, but I love my 1993 RD350, bought back in 1994 and still riding.
Great video, great sound, thanks a lot!!!
I had a 2008 RM250 with the unplated Pro Circuit Works Pipe and shorty silencer. Sounded just like this bike. Never met a person who didn't love the sound of it. A snarling, spitting beast.
the last suzuki RM250's were known as the most powerful 2 stroke of all the manufacturers. there were a few things that contributed to that but the biggest were the power jet design in the carb and the form of reeds used.
I had an rm250 for a long time and it outran the 4 strokes of its day pretty well.
Another great video. 4 stroke singles are the worst noise in the automotive world. They sound like diarrhea farts. That RM sounds epic and I know if putting a smile on my dial was the aim, the RM would be my choice every time.
I know around a track I'll ride way faster on my dad's sxf250 than my 05 kx250 but the kx is just my favourite bike ever. Solid, reliable, fun, but maybe a bit unpredictable. When the motor was on its last legs after 8 years of riding and I don't know how many hours I tore it down and found the skirt of the piston was cracked and about to totally let go but it just kept going. Very tough bike.
I think part of the fun of riding a 2 stroke comes from the bike being a little unpredictable. At least with the 250. I raced a yz250 2t and no matter how good you thought you were it always had to be treated with a little respect, or it would catch you by surprise
@@lewismx8815 I reckon you're right.
as someone that owns an 02' RM250 and a 21' CRF250R, I can say that the RM is fun when you can rip it wide open at the dunes or anywhere that you are just wanting to put some wide open miles in. My 250R however, its super smooth power delivery, front end is much more planted, bike geometry feels better in almost every way and its a lot less taxing on you to ride. For these reasons, my RM is basically a garage ornament and I take the honda when I go to the track.
Race a 250 4 stroke against that old 250 2 stroke and see what happens.
Waited 16yrs for this.thanks
It will be good to know how much the 14 years of evolution of the 450's chassis, weight, suspension and breaks influenced in the 450's advantage over the 2 stroke 250. Cheers
Only is right. Key word is only.
You're always just as happy when you see a video with old 2 stroke's bikes that prove that you can have fun and go fast with an old bike.. I myself have an RM 250 2007 :)
I love the two stroke engine...and I once for everyday transport rode a 2001 Honda 'Repsol' NSR150SP (single cylinder - two stroke) for about 2 years or so.
Even though it was a small bike with a small engine...it was a bunch of fun - and quick for it's engine size.
Awesome video by the way...thanks!🙂
Mate had a Suzuki RG 500 back in the earlier 90's, v4 2 stroke, that thing was insane to ride, shoulder tearing acceleration 👍👍
@@Grumpy_CBG I was going through my old bike stuff yesterday and found a sales receipt from 2003 where I bought a '89 RZ350 that was in great shape for $2300, the same price I got for a ratty RZ500 six years previous. Had I kept both of them, I'd be sitting on a lot of bike money.
@@rogerpitre8663 yep, me too, bikes, cars, guitar amps, back in the past when I was a young bloke, be rolling in cash no if I would have held on all that gear
The 4-stroke ruined the future of the sport being accessible. The 2-stroke still allowed talented amateurs a chance to break through into the professional scene. Moto-x was always a costly sport, but it’s now becoming a sport of the elites
I tried pretty hard to land a good 06+ RM250 but ended up with a decent 03 YZ250 instead. It’s a great bike, no complaints, but I still find myself checking the classifieds occasionally. lol
Nothing beats the sound and smell of a 2 stroke specially running a castor oil based mix
Really liking my new YZ250 2 banger, only choice for a 50 year old having fun, might get a 4 banger when i retire, lol, great content again Max.
for the more casual rider, two strokes are so much cheaper to maintain. Not a question of IF you'll have to buy a new 4 stroke head...
I still have my 06' RC replica RM 250!! About 7K in upgrades / A-kit and all that. I have two newer Husky's here.....and still to this day , the RM is probably the most perfect 250 2 stroke ever made.
2-stroke engines are simply more energetic.
4-stroke dirtbikes never had that urgency of excitement.
Hearing them back to back is like all the fun just ended when the 4-stroke arrived. Lol
two strokes way cheaper to maintain/rebuild also.
@@samj1185 less parts.
When 2 strokes left road bike track days it all went downhill too, if you ask me. All of a sudden everyone had new Ducatis and it turned into a rich boys club.
Would be interested to see a modern Enduro 2ST 300 tuned and geared for mx (or just stock) go against a 450 4ST mx bike.
Or the new Ktm 300sx
@@nigel6548 Yeah, that would be a good comparison. Didn't even realise this bike was out/coming out for 2023.
@@_ldm_3501 looks pretty good- fuel injected too
@@nigel6548 Checked out some vids on pre production models. Still weird to see no kick starter. Interested to see if they bring a wireless module out for troubleshooting and remapping on the fly.
I've seen it on a Vertigo Trials bike with a wireless module and looks like an awesome option for privateers and general riders.
I have a TM 300 MX 2022. It is an MX tuned 300 2 stroke. It is a very fast bike. It also is counterbalanced with a flywheel weight so it tracks smooth with minimal wheelspin. Puts power to the ground easy. It would eat a 250f for breakfast, and I have no problem keeping pace with and battling with 450 riders of comparable skill level. I came off a YZ125 big bore, and I would get yarded by less skilled guys on 450s, and would have to divebomb corners and pass them in turns. Now those guys eat rocks off my back tire. I have ridden 450's, and my bike turns better, accelerates harder, and has zero engine braking. BUT, the huge thing is that 4 strokes can rev to 2x the RPM. The 300 makes more torque, but it caps at 48HP because it falls flat at high revs and needs to be short-shifted.
No comments on this yet! When I see and SMELL that 2stroke oil exhaust, I begin salivating! & tripping out missing the old days. Loved hill climbing & trail riding the mountains of N. Utah.
suzuki has one of the best sounding 2 strokes
2T vs 4T is a bit like 2WD vs 4WD, different beasts, different ways to tame them.
The 2’s are definitely more fun, the 4’s once tamed are ultimately faster, speed around a track is directly determined by grip.
I remember back in the second half of the 80’s my friend Husqvarna 250 2T, during high school he was competing and we were using the school facilities to prepare, service and customise it, we were all studying mechanical engineering and thermodynamics, we were building the exhausts, working on fuel intakes, gears, we created a killer monster, no one was able to take of in first gear on tarmac and only the bravest in second, it was a wheels up to 5th, we created a perfect field ploughing machine, in the end for him to actually be competitive on the track we had to tune it back down.
if he’s accustomed to that 4 stroke and has ridden that competitively for years, but hasn’t hardly touched a 2 stroke, then the lap times are obviously going to be effected. He could definitely shave some time off the 2 stroke time after more practice.
Racing a 2 stroke is a very different technique.
@@rulehardgarage9740 exactly
@@rulehardgarage9740 whats the difference? Really curious
@@Ralfostman 2 strokes have a much narrower power band than a 4 stroke, so you have to work it different to make sure you stay within that power band effectively. For someone that's not a 2 stroke rider, shaving a second off the 4 stroke is pretty great. Just shows the potential 2 strokes have over similar sized 4 strokes
@@Ralfostman There's a few, engine braking, torque v HP and most importantly where in the rev range they occur.
A four stroke will be more forgiving in the wrong gear because in general they have a broader power band and on the flip side a 2 stroke that's geared to suit a track will launch out of the corners way quicker.
Glad that Ed is ok.
Great video. I remember Micheal Pichon winning 2 MXGP championships in 2001 and 2002 on the RM250. He gave Everts a good run in 2003 on the RM250 but Everts had the 4 stroke?yamaha at that point . I never thought it was right to have 250 2 strokes in a class with 4 strokes that are double the displacement. I always said they should be in the 250 class with the 250f bikes.
I’ve got an 02 RM 250 that is the best MX bike I’ve ever owned and it’s in my Will to go to my sons👍🏼
Thanks for watching Shane:)
I'm restoring my 97 I bought in highschool. But all the original parts you can before they're gone! So much stuff is discontinued and isn't supported by aftermarket.
The difference between 250 2 stroke and 4 stroke is 10 hp more for the 2 stroke and the diference between a 250 2 stroke and a 450 4 stroke is only 4 hp but thats with all 3 bikes new with new technology also for the 2 stroke (yamaha ) i looked it upp before in another whats best 2 or 4
My choice would go to the screaming 2 stroke over that tuned up lawnmower everyday 😃😃 did you ever see carmichael vs everts in zolder belgium mx of nations i was there was nice to see
@@tonnyberben1770 I saw Carmichael vs Everts and even better than that was Pichon vs. Everts 2001-2003
Long Live...2 Strokes. Nothing like the smell of Castrol Oil exhaust, filling the air with it's aroma .
Klotz smells like Pizza to me, love bean oil
2003 RM 500cc was the last 2 stroke bike I raced, 20 years ago, you just turned the throttle, stared at the sky and passed everything on one wheel.
Absolute beast!
And not forgetting, if you slupped on the kick, the kick back would break a leg, could only be started with full motox boots on lol
I think a big factor here is the softish terrain of that track. I always felt really fast on my old RM on these types of tracks. A four stroke has a huge advantage on hard pack, or slick clay tracks and also flat or off camber corners. A two stroke slides all over the place in those conditions. It is exhausting and you will make mistakes. Unfortunately east coast of Australia doesn’t have many sandy or loamy tracks so sadly I gave up and went to the dark side.
My 81 KX420 upgeared to the max must have been knocking on the door of 90 mph !! It sure felt like it when I came to a very sudden stop ! That's the painful bit , but to this day I don't regret a single minute of it !! You know you're alive 😁😁 I think that's why my 89 rm250 lives next to the bed ! Far safer 👍👍👍
i went from a wr 250 to a 09 yz 250 and ill never forget how hard it felt to hold onto the handle bars first few laps around a track lmao
I went from a 70s XR70 or75 Honda to a brand new CR80 in 1981 when I was 11 years old. The only 2 stroke I had rode before that was a GT80. The very first time I rode it I had no idea how hard it was gonna hit and wasn't holding on like I should. It literally almost shot out from underneath me. I instantly loved it lol.
The 2-stroke won right around 1:31
I still ride 2 stroke and I love it!
In 1978 I had a YZ125E. It made peak power at a shrieking 11,000 rpm. All top, no torque. It would not match today’s power, but it was air cooled and only weighed 198 lbs. And yes, it was fun to fling around.
I raced a '79 YZ 125, same powerband. I really loved that bike even though managing the power was a lot of work. WOT howl was awesome. Wish I still had it.
Now that's a dream bike!
I never rode a dirt bike, but I did own an air cooled single cylinder 135cc Yamaha in India since 2002 which I ported and polished with updated internals and a loud pipe! That thing was mental, and I still miss its raw power delivery with zero pull down low but mad acceleration post 6000rpm all the way until 9000 revs. These 2 strokes really teach you the importance of maintaining machines properly and handling that insane surge of power!
That bike is close enough to dirt bike , still a lot of fun
The 2 stroke finally died when guys had experimental surgery to have their balls removed.
Love 2 stroke bikes, way easier to work on and a lot cheaper
Agreed. I have a 2017 YZ250X with a SmartCarb and it's STUPID amounts of fun to ride. I plan on keeping her until the frame disintegrates.
Faster, lighter and much more fun!
@@alanjm1234 so much faster….where’s the 2 strokes at now?
@@fastballfilms4214 they are faster. That's a fact. Just look at a Dyno of a yz 250 and a yz 250f. The two stroke makes more power. And don't tell me to compare it to a 450, that's literal retardation. You don't compare two things to see if one is better but give the other thing a hanicap
@@fastballfilms4214 the only reason anyone races 4 strokes is because environmental laws made 2 strokes illegal in some of the major markets.
Fact is for the same capacity, 2 strokes are faster.
That's why the 250 class of 2 strokes became 450 in 4 strokes.
When the 500cc gp bikes switched to 4 strokes they DOUBLED in capacity.
I was a Yamaha, Honda and Kawasaki shop mechanic in the '80s and I loved working on and test riding the 2 strokes. My personal bike was a 2 stroke Husqvarna 250. Wish I had that bike today.
With pro riders the 4 strokes will always have faster lap times. They have massive torque from top to bottom so you don't have to be on the pipe the whole time. But idgaf. The 2 strokes are way more fun to ride. The way the power comes on is explosive and a blast. Whack the throttle and hang wheelies in almost every gear. Clutchless power shifts at 10k rpm. Massive corner speeds and burm blasts. VP race fuel and maxima castor oil smells amazing. The sound they make. I love them. I'm not a racer so Ima stick with the 2 strokes.
Nah depending on the rider, that 2t 250 will beat 450 easily, the person just has to be able to push that 2t hard 💯
@@waltwalt9632 "easily" is a stretch, it depends on rider mostly, but 4ts do have advantage now days
@@xfdfff2620 that’s why I said depending on the rider. Cause with the the port work an pipe setup on a 2t you’ll have a rocket but it can be a light switch an if you can’t hold on to it, an keep it on the pipe/powerband. A 450, even 250 4strokes will walk all over a 2t 250 yeah they do have a advantage all that torque they make 😮💨
@@waltwalt9632 yeah, 450s also make decent amount of more power nowdays, all tho 2 strokes are still lighter
@@xfdfff2620 damn near 60hp whp but they just don’t have a hit like a 2t smh
Great vid!!! Would love to see a classic RM go up against a a modern KTM 250
4 stroke dirtbikes scare the hell out of me. They are strung out to the limit and when they blow up, its easily a complete catastrophic failure. Theyre heavier and make less HP per/cc than a 2 stroke and are 10x more complicated. I feel like companies didnt like that racers could rebuild their engine at home.. They needed more dealership visits.
I ran a 11 crf450 for about 2 years with just basic maintenance. But I did always feel un easy for it to blow! I then had a 16 crf450 and boy it was fast but couldn't gel with the weight. Now back on an 02 cr250, and although I've had quicker I'll never sell
They changed to four stroke because government intervention. The environmental regulators changing in mid 1990’s. The four stroke burns less fuel, oil than a two stroke. Therefore less emissions. Motorcycles, garden, lawn motors, chainsaws, marine equipment mostly made the change to fourstroke. However some companies took to making the two stroke cleaner (KTM), along with oil companies making oils synthetic that can burn 50:1…100:1. Now environmental regulation is trying to strangle the fossil fuel burning vehicles completely. Usher in 100% battery powered machines.
I raced mx in 1972-75, 2 stroke Yamaha 250mx. I loved it, but the one everyone wanted to ride was the Maco 250 or 400. Such low end power, low rumble. One of the coolest looking bikes.
I was 16 in 2006 and I remember getting dirtbike mag and reading how good all the 2 strokes were. Amazing year for bikes in general.
The Aprillia mx 125 super motard hit the shops that year what a bike that thing did 129 mph with a full tune
@@noidontthinksolol clearly never took advantage of gearing and large rear sprockets 😂
@@noidontthinksolol or your bike tuners did only a half a job because mine was hitting 128mph and boy what a bike she was
@@noidontthinksolol lmao 🤣 you definitely don't have a clue now 😂😂👍
@@noidontthinksolol so your pretty sure that a 125cc 2 stroke aprillia engine CANNOT do 129MPH .......after gearing after race tuning after bigger carb you still belive that it cannot do near 129mph it's funny because you clearly never touched a 2 stroke bike in your life end off later mush
Race lap times would be better than single lap times simply because of the competition pushing you to the edge. Thank you for sharing. Have a blessed day.
The sound of a 2stroke is always entertaining
Most of us who still own two strokes could give a damn about winning the race or not. Because unless you are some top-level Rider, it doesn't really matter. It's more of the fun-factor and the ease of Maintenance and servicing, As well as how everyone loves it when you come to the track. It's as simple as that. I have both 2-stroke and 4-stroke, and my YZ300 2-stroke is still my favorite, even though the bike is 17 years old vs my brand new CRF450RWE.
Ahh yeah they were wrong. And who the hell decided it was a good idea to let 450 4 strokes race in the 250 class. That alone tells me all I need to know. 2 strokes rule. Not to mention limiting compression and fuel type on 2 strokes to de tune them even more. Gotta cheat the 2 strokes out of it. 4 strokes suuuck. And they cost an arm and a leg to repair/build and after 2 to 3 years you might as well trash them and get a new one. 2 stroke 4 life
Exactly, only politic and merchants politics decisions.
A 2 stroke RM with that powerband. They're just so fun for a kid. Had '82 RM 80 was a blast.
Hey, yep, I had a '82 RM 80 as well. So friggin fun!
@@Mahnamahna1100 12 year olds dream
Yip the infamous "power band"😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
😅
If the mate riding the RM was used to riding two strokes, I really think his time would've been another second or two faster.
I was thinking the same thing. He’d be on the gas earlier and harder, carrying more speed into the corners as well.
There is something impressive and awe-inspiring about hearing a deep humming four-stroke with only half the number of revolutions jerk violently and jerkily from a squealing two-stroke that revs so much that the engine is about to explode, and yet it does not move appreciably in relation to it fearsome and deep-humming four-strokes with only half the number of revolutions.
Great video Max, loving the action shot's at the track absolutely fantastic work, your not wrong the RM sounds brilliant, in my book the RM wins hands down, great work again Max, looking forward to the next video.
Thanks Kevin
Great video,BUT... It's not fair to just running a lap against the clock! Why? Well if you have one bad corner you can lose over a second,if you have 2 or 3 bad corners... well you get the point. You should going for a couple of starts, maybe on a very long straight and using different kind of surface. Sand,hardpack and so on. That's much better and more fair than just running a lap against the clock. It's not easy to do a fair test,but in my opinion that's the best way to see witch bike is the fastest! But i really like your videos so keep sharing 🙌🙏
Sounds great. 👍
Loved this thank you, as an owner of a 2005 RM250 with Bills Pipe! Long live the 2 stroke! I really really hate the noise of the four strokes.
Sure for one lap the 2t is faster than a 250f bit over a hole moto the 2t rider probably will get tiered faster