Mic, the woman who you made a video on who had a stroke on the carnivore diet is going Whole Food Plant Based! She's going to talk to Dr. Esselstyn soon!👍👍
Liked that she exposed Ken Berry for not responding to her inquiries but Dr Esselstyn did. In fact Berry was so triggered he just made a short saying carnivores' arteries are clean as a whistle. Man is shameless.
I just casually mentioned that I simply saw this documentary to my friend and she instantly got offended for no reason. Saying vegans/vegetarians are the ones contributing the most to the Amazon rainforest destruction because “all the vegan/vegetarian sh*t contains palm oil” and how all our meat land and crops for meat cannot be transformed into vegetable farming because ‘it needs to be rotated’. I was annoyed she lashed out when I simply said I just watched the documentary, but whatever lol
Palm oil is just a distraction. If a significantly larger proportion of people gave up their meat addiction then no forests would need to be cleared anywhere for any new oil plantations.
Unfortunately, this is a reaction I have come across very frequently and it is completely uncalled for. Did you get the impression that you could just have said "you're a terrible person because you eat meat" and get exactly the same reaction?
"Oh my god, they said eat more plants. I'm going to Rotten Tomatoes and give this 1/2 star cause me no feel goody!" 😂 Thank you for the humor and great research, Mic! 🙏💚
"great research"... Lol, is that a joke? if you actually want to open your mind and learn something , i have a playlist on my channel called "veganism debunked".
@@DanteLikesRock I found a video made by an MD who made remarkably inaccurate claims about the history of humans and their food. I don't know if this is one of the people to whom you've listened, but many of his facts were wrong and his reasoning bizarre. Please be careful. I know we went back and forth on this under a different comment, but he is wrong, and it will cause harm to people. Just a fraction of the dangerous nonsense: 'Plants don't want us to eat them', and so they try to kill us, etc. Of course plants, like all living things, have defense mechanisms. Unfortunately for them, we (along with many other mammals) have adapted alongside them, and gain from their attempts. Actually, the often minor toxins found in edible plants place mild stress on our cells that makes them far more resilient to disease. This process is called hormesis, and is likely a large part of why consuming plants is in fact healthful for us (Mattson et al, Scientific American, 2015 July). North America had no plant food except berries and Jer. artichokes prior to European arrival. False. I live near proof of this, where the Serrano people ground flour and meal from various nuts, seeds and grassy plants on large rocks in our local mountains. Pinon nuts, and at lower altitudes honey mesquite pods, cacti, yucca root and a wide variety of other plant edibles were available. 'None of the fruits and vegetables we eat today were available more than' ....here the number changes from roughly 600 years to over 1000, depending on what he is talking about. False. We have hybrids, of course, but that happens in nature too. The plants we have now, at least the ones we have modified, are still classified with their 'parent' plants, as they are genetic descendants (and therefore not 'completely new and unheard of'). There are many large classes of plants from which we can take appropriate nutrition. Plants change over time, regardless of human interference. We are able to, and benefit greatly from, eating them because we were originally fruit eaters, who adapted to also including leafy plants in our diet. There are quite a few other dangerous statements. Let me know if I should continue. Doctors are not biologists, anthropologists or highly trained nutrition scientists. My aunt is an MD, and admits freely that they had only 85 minutes of training, exclusively on common vitamins and minerals, and focused on the effects of deficiency. They were never required to take in-depth courses on the complexity of human nutrition, or the tens of thousands of plant compounds on which we depend for good health. I know we don't know each other, but you said things that were almost verbatim to what this ignorant doctor said. Please investigate beyond the black hole of YT, and try to avoid confirmation bias. I wish you well.
@@mountaingirl1753 I already came to my own conclusion awhile ago that plants aren't all bad, the phenomenon of hormesis is also interesting, as I've been learning about it recently. Many in the keto/carnivore space seem to be very monochromatic in their thinking, which is hardly what human nutrition science is. Though I still believe that humans need an animal-based diet for optimal health. Rough figures are perhaps 70% animal foods, 20% fruit, 10% green vegetables. Something like that.
@@DanteLikesRock I understand that you want to believe that this movement is correct, and your willingness to be more flexible than those who are, as you nicely put it, "monochromatic in their thinking" is admirable. We all cling to our perspectives, world views and beliefs, including me ( I strive for absolute objectivity at work, but probably fail from time to time without realizing it ). Please consider the objective truth in this statement before rejecting it: "Anatomy trumps everything, including beliefs and food preferences. Anatomical features are observable facts. They objectively show the types of foods we and other creatures evolved to eat, and thereby thrive on." (Comparative Anatomy...Mills, 2019). I am not a vegan. That is an ethical / political stance. I eat as a primate, specifically a great ape, as that is how humans are classified. Ideally, I would ingest the occasional insect or small critter along with the abundant variety of fruit and greens that compose 85 - 99% of my diet, but rather than insects I sometimes eat some fish or egg, perhaps a few times per year, usually in very small garnish-like quantity (egg mixed into a small serving of potato salad, etc.). I do not for a moment believe those tiny, rare bits of animal product are beneficial, rather they are similar to a monthly potato chip. Not good for me, but in such a tiny quantity as to be inconsequential. It is understandable how people, men in particular, think that 'carnivore' is more masculine. Women seem to think they are more tough and independent on it. Some individuals suffer from species envy, and want to be what they are not. Herbivores can eat very small amounts of meat (deer have been observed doing this, but it by no means makes them an omnivore or carnivore). Nature doesn't draw hard lines, she works in narrow zones of grey. I would like to see one of these angry and irrational human carnivore pretenders take on a plant-eating gorilla, or chimpanzee. There is no shame in being in the ape family. We don't need to pretend we are among the big cats. I hope you eventually sift through the vast and growing sea of misinformation, both silly carnist ideas that benefit only meat and feed producers, and weird unscientific vegan ones that promote limited, sometimes almost single food plant diets, not so that you agree with me, but so you can better understand your own primate biology to your health benefit. If you were to reverse the ratio to 70% plant foods, the species-appropriateness would be tremendously improved (to be spot-on, that 30% would be insects and small critters, not overly large ones like modern cattle).
Suddenly people are aware that studies have been funded by companies with personal interests. Isn’t it better this company wants to open our eyes instead of lie to us for profit at the expense of our health?
The vegan diet is unhealthy. Why would anyone trust a comapany telling them to stop eating health meat and eat unhealthy fake vegan meat from a lab? It is only about profit and getting ppl sick of lab slop, just to sell them supplements and drugs WHEN(not if) they get deficient and sick. It is literally not about science and all about profit.
@@MictheVegan Who are you calling cholesterol deniers? No one denies cholesterol. Having cholesterol is not a disease. Your body produces most of it. When you fast for 3 days, your LDL shoots up. Why the hell would your body all of the sudden give you heart disease? LMAO.
I never cease to be amazed by how many people will instantly “debunk” something simply because they don’t want to hear the message. Thanks for picking their arguments apart! As for the study behind the show, I can say that I personally know a couple of the people involved in the research. They are the real deal - top of their professions and leading researchers in the field. I fully trust what they say, and they say this study was well run and the findings are valid. Is it the final word? No, but it definitely adds some value evidence to the growing mountain of evidence that a well-planned plant-based diet based primarily on unprocessed food is the healthiest - bar none.
Ah, but you're biased! hahahahahaah! Sorry, couldn't help it. I don't know, perhaps it is just me, but I get the impression that there is an increasing trend of "if I don't like it, then it is not true", followed by "anyone who says what I don't want to hear, is a liar/biased/mean/malicious/delusional. And anyone who says what I want to hear is a good person." Basically, facts and reality do not seem to matter to too many people.
They, people who seem credible and professional also say the southern border of the USA is closed.🤔🤪🙄 Just a tiny food for thought. Or the president is full of vigor and is the most transparent person ever in that position.😂 Ever see Binder talk her nonsense on TV? Don't believe most people in either direction of this topic. Just eat natural food that was around 15,000 years ago and most people would thrive. And for example most but not all fruits and vegetables weren't available back then. And yes, Bacon wasn't around back then either.🤔🤫😉😇 I never have seem an animal eat a seasoned brisket or fried Buffalo wings either.🤔🤭
@@annerigby4400 It's quite funny. The vegans will dismiss a study by stating the scientists involved or the funding was "carnist" . And then, they don't apply that same standard to their own studies and question motivations. In addition, they fall for documentaries. As if documentaries are the same as a well-planned and peer reviewed scientific study. This is religious thinking. And they're not vegans. They're just medicalizing the lifestyle/moral system of veganism. They're not even medical experts or have any real world experience with people's health other than their own. They think because they thrive, all other people will thrive. Yeah.. a load of people tried veganism and it didn't work out for them. it wasn't because they didn't try or apply the rules. They were killing themselves but the vegan zealots don't see that medical room.
@@Jason-cz3bvyou at too, you don't eat meat to feel good yourself, you don't do it for the animals 😂 you do it to not feel guilty, so selfish aswell...
I felt bad for that one male twin who had to move 3x in a month, they were saying he didn’t improve like they wanted him to and said he didn’t try hard enough… well ya he had a lot going on!
It amazes me how people think omnivores could not be biased towards their own diet choices. Why should we trust someone who eats meat to be unbiased anymore than someone who doesn't? Most likely, someone who don't mind changes to their diet in line with new evidence is less biased than someone who is just holding on to their habits because they don't want to change.
@guitarszen I agree, humans are frugivorous herbivores. Besides fruit, frugivorous apes usually eat all kinds of plants, nuts, seeds, roots, tubers, shoots, bark, leaves, as well as insects and small animals sometimes.
@@carinaekstrom1 We have forward looking eyes with great depth and colour vision. Perfect for being in the trees looking for ripe fruits. I always ask carnies where they think we got such great colour vision for, cave paintings?
@@11235Aodh Absolutely, and our whole digestive system is built for mainly plants. That's why we have such a hard time getting rid of excess cholesterol, etc. And as far as cave paintings, of course they would paint people challenging big animals, it's not like anyone would find it dramatic enough to paint someone picking berries or digging for roots. Those paintings say nothing about how often it was done or how successful it was. If it wasn't a great challenge and just an everyday thing, they probably wouldn't find it exciting enough to paint it.
@SadullahDemirkaya the issue is those eating meat get more chronic illnesses stressing the medical system. That's a huge issue in Canada where I live. And meat eating is directly linked to climate change, biodiversity loss, pollution, acidification, antibiotic overuse, pandemics etc. That impacts me, not just you. You can't dump chemicals in the water, there are regulations to protect the community. This is an issue for all of us - eating meat should be regulated but no politician will do the right thing. I think your insistence on choice is selfish and misguided
I am 66 years old and going on 7 years. Plant-based and I feel fantastic. I signed up for medicare of course, and the only use of it last year for me was to get my cataracts fixed and to do my welcome to medicare physical, which was fantastic. My Blood Pressure is perfect and I take no medicines and so I have people like Mic. The vegan to thank for helping me do the transition back when I did it. And I'm a happy camper being plant-based. And will never go back, but people can eat whatever they want to eat. That's fine, just leave me alone. It's amazing how people like to pick on me for what I do.
That’s wonderful to hear. Not only are you in good health, but you save taxpayers thousands of dollars in healthcare costs, so there’s a community benefit, as well. I think countries would do well to incentivise plant based eating, as there are so many personal and societal benefits.
@@cyberfunk3793Yeah, because vegans care about other things like animals, the environment and health, not just taste pleasure. Look at most of these people - Fat and sick.
@@imhassane hey hey, anecdotal claims tho, science is clearly lying, Plant-Based food is clearly the richest industry in the world, we give all of our tax money to them, they are clearly controlling all the media and science studies, they are just lying constantly in order to force us to eat more plants that will kill us, the only real truth is people on the internet telling you how great they feel on carnivore diet with no studies to back it up
@@shellderp False. It’s been the same story for many low carb diets. No studies on it but people follow them and even when the funding was available they chose not to do studies on it, best example is Atkins.
I will tell my story. I was whole foods omnivore for many years, do not consume red meat, but lots of diary, eggs. I saw the hate towards vegans in soc media, but never understood why and was probably too ignorant to check why. Then I've started to notice more and more people promoting carnivore and maxing out on protein, especially animal. I was following Peter Attia and he was one of those. Then I've noticed some pattern in those carnivore evangelists - some of them tend to be of a certain profile - angry, irrational, pushy...and conspiracy theorists. The more I was listening to them saying that there is a huge conspiracy which wants to take away meat from people (wtf???), the more I got the feeling that there cannot be that those guys are intelligent people, so their push for carnivore, max protein cannot be intelligent joice. And here I am, after watching Twin experiment, bought a book How not to die :-) Lets see where it will lead me.
I have never met a carnivore in real life. Know plenty that I would consider eat too much meat. They are a very loud minority. I go for moderation, I would think getting a bit much protein is better than not enough, especially in the elderly, which is what attia is going on about
What is addictive about it? Carnists eat less frequently than vegans do. How much do you need to eat in a day to meet the same nutrient contents of that in a steak?
.... What? Frequency of consumption is not synonymous with addiction. For example a person who lives in a hot climate is not more addicted to water because they drink more than those in cooler climates. The level of physiology incoherency from you guys is honestly astounding 🙄🙄
@@kieranstyx3633 Frequency is a strong indicator of addiction in the context of addiction. The op literally said carnists are addicted in the context of diet. I asked how are carnists addicted? She made that claim and rebuttal.
no no no... if you want another perspective other than what you've been told by mainstream "nutrition experts"... i have a science-based playlist on my channel called "veganism debunked".
As a vegan I actually didn't care for the show that much. There are MUCH BETTER documentaries that highlight plant based diets for health reasons. I agree with some of the criticism. I mostly didn't like that it felt like a commercial for processed vegan junk food. Then it was showing that one restaurant a lot. Why? This has nothing to do with the twins. And since they are eating for health why show off all the vegan junk food. It was like it was trying to say those products are healthy when they aren't. I do eat those products sometimes but I would never call them healthy.
They did it genius, because lots of people who go vegan don't want to give up the foods they love overnight, you have to give them times to transition, the junk foods are to help them move to a healthier diet over time
fully agree with you. it was strange that instead promoting whole food plant based diet, lots of attention was towards "how to engineer plant based product, which tastes and looks like meat". I am not a professional of course, but those meat, cheese substitutes do not look to me like a whole foods.
A commercial for processed food? We must have watched a different documentary. The story of the restaurant is indeed very relevant, because if Michelin star restaurants (the peak of European gastronomy) can change, so can smaller establishments.
I've seen the doc-u-series it seemed very fair in the results. They actually tried to educate you along with the experiences in the twins study. It showed how minds change with experience. Great video, you really add so much knowledge about these things. ❤ I learned I need to eat more calories for sure.
Great point! Minds do change based on diet. Myelin Sheath - the stuff used to line and protect your nerves are made of Cholesterol. If you were to guess which diet reduces myelin sheath in the nerves and brain, which one would you choose?
Calories means nothing in nutrition. It is an observation in physics, a construct of an energy model. Calories has no weight nor mass, it is not dense and you cannot weigh calories on a scale. It is a useless metric.
@@Ariel-oo1nc What's up with your riddle? I know my previous diet of high cholesterol caused a lot of health issues. I am very grateful for having reduced my cholesterol on a vegan diet. I learned I can eat more calories without cholesterol and build muscle. I feel you want to make a point about cholesterol being an important part of brain function. I agree but my body creates enough for me to be a professional engineer and reducing any extra cholesterol from outside sources did help me maintain a lower blood pressure to be calm in difficult situations. I hope you understand that extra cholesterol doesn't make you have super powers with your brain functions.
@@KateeAngel Yes, they are described in units as a heat. But calories are a poor way to assess diet because it is more nuanced than that and 500 calories in a steak is different than 500 calories in a cake. A much more intuitive way is to measure what is measurable in grams. Our bodies are not made up of calories, we are made of up of fat and protein and sugar and water. That is measurable.
for any open-minded vegans here who want another perspective other than what you've been told by mainstream "nutrition experts"... i have a science-based playlist on my channel called "veganism debunked".
Also like... who else is going to fund it? Ladies' Foot Locker? Penguin Books? Of course it's going to be people who would benefit from the predictable results lol
I encourage everyone to try it for 3 months. I’m 63, 10+ years WFPB and I’m never going back. I’m on no meds and my BP, weight, blood sugar and lipids all straightened out. I am a runner, do spin cycle and yoga. I have energy and feel good. So much better than before. Even if some studies showed a health benefit from fish or some other animal- I wouldn’t eat it now. I do not want to harm an animal and I want to help with climate change. Plant based for life. Try it for yourself. You will feel great. It’s amazing.
This is how I got my partner to turn. I asked him to try it for 1 month, and he felt so much better at the end of that month he decided to stick to it. That was 5 or 6 years ago.
I do distance running. Friends are always asking how the heck I manage it. I tell them, consistent training and diet!! Some listen but most want to be ignorant. Rich Roll is a great roll model.
Meat is in reality a processed or refined foodstuff. In the wild, real carnivores and omnivores consume hide, fur, gristle and small bones along with the meat itself. Carnivores in zoos and domestic carnivores like housecats seem to do less well when fed only meat without accompanying roughage.
You know.. we did develop tools to hunt animals, these tools were also developed to skin and cut....and we can eat the bone...when it is cooked. Bro. In the wild, those animals may consume fur and gristle, but do not digest it. It comes back out.
@@tomgoff7887 The most health benefit is in the muscle meat and fat. That is what predators are hunting for and what their digestive system basically digests completely. There is not any fat or muscle meat in their feces.
@@tomgoff7887 Didn't know that dogs had this, so they also alongside humans got the amylase adaption in their genes. Literally the dogs ate from the humans pot. (what's even more amazing is that both species did this on a diet high in meat and low on carbs /s)
You're an Angel Michael, keep caring and Loving the Innocent babes , you do this world a service..... your diligence and the constant time you put into this information, THE ANIMAL KINGDOM LOVE YOU.................
I was actually surprised how honest the study was. Not everyone lost fat, some of the things measured didn’t show significant change. They were pretty open about the results. What I did find interesting is how everyone in the vegan group lost more visceral fat, even the twins who were already in great shape.
Thanks for the follow-up Mic. Once again, very informative! I wish I could watch the documentary, but unfortunately, I don't have a Nexflix account and I have no immediate plans to sign-up for one. Hopefully, in the future, they'll make the documentary available on other platforms, such as Prime or TH-cam. I will, however, plan on taking a look at the underlying study to gain more knowledge of the specific methodologies and outcomes. As always, you provide a valuable service, Mic.
It's so weird. I mean just ignoring the whole should you eat meat or not part of it. Everyone knows adding more plants into your diet improves your health. What is the issue?
It doesn't. Removing pressed food, refined carbs, refined sugar, vegetable/seed oil is all that matters. You can eat 70% meat in you diet and be healthier than all vegans. Vegetables and grains are not need at all.
@@David-kx7tz have fun eating your daily meal of your American deep fried proceed food dunked in toxic vegetable/seed oils, with your tube of soda, and all the potato chips you can eat. ROTF
@@GarudaLegends That's a false dichotomy. What you are saying literally has nothing to do with what I'm saying. Those things will make you healthier, but so will eating more fruits and veggies. A bad diet with more broccoli is healthier than a bad diet without it.
@@InfiniteQuest86 wait. Who actually told you that nonsense? You really think adding broccoli to a bad diet is good or makes the diet better? ROTF, that is the most unscientific thing I ever heard. Are you vegan? Vegetables are absolutely not needed in the diet to be healthy. In Hong Kong they have the highest life expectancy and eat the most meat on earth, while In India they come a heavy vegan/vegetarian diet and have horrible life expectancy. Eating more vegetables is just a waste of money, and has no bearing on health being better. Im not against plant, but I get all my nutrients from meat and fruit hypercarnivore diet without suppliments, which all vegans and most vegetarians require.
13:39 "60% of Americans didn't meet the 2.5 serving minimum of fruit and vegetables combined." That is astonishing. IF a serving is indeed 85 g, THEN that means they don't even get 212.5 g a day? That is barely the weight of a decent apple. Astonishing.
@@buckmurdock2500 It is. I just don't get it. What are all these people eating? For the carnivores, it seems a no-brainer, unless (perhaps) they devour cows or pigs in their entirety, including the contents of their organs, but the others? I just had a look, and (not including today, which isn't over yet) I had a daily average of 63 g over the past week and I am not even trying to 'get fibre'.
@jonahwhale9047 Good question. The whole 'serving' thing rings ridiculous to me. Are Americans really so uneducated that they don't know how to read a scale? The issue with tomato paste is a bit more complicated. Two tablespoons (30 g) are somewhat comparable to 125 g of tomato, so that comparison seems more or less fair. As for school lunches, if it were up to me, I would have voted in favour of the vegetables, but against limiting potatoes. Potatoes may not be the ideal vegetable, but they are far preferable to junk food. We should not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
@jonahwhale9047 When a product is plant-BASED that doesn't mean it is a vegetable or a fruit or both. Olive oil is made from a plant, that doesn't mean it is a plant.
@jonahwhale9047 Jocularity doesn't always come through in short bursts. I was misled by the "limited amount of potatoes allowed" because potatoes are a very good vegetable. That said, maybe the education system in the west has changed. When I went to school and med school, decades ago, "eat more vegetables" was a common exhortation and that definitely did not mean "as little as you guess you can get away with" which is what many people seem to live by these days.
When anyone in my 50 & over weight lifting fb group post about this series there's loads of comments claiming it's vegan propaganda, sponsored by beyond meat, that the vegan lost muscle, biased etc pity that they just repeat the reviews they've read or a youtuber because they always say the same criticism.
To the meatheads who always complain about vegan "bias" --- did it ever occur to you it may be because we've seen or experienced first hand the amazing effects on health, and evidence based science supports it? That's not bias, that's common sense!
while i agree with you, there is also plenty of meat heads who claim to feel better on k3to and c4rnivore diets. i don't even want to write those words out 'cause i don't want to get ads/video recommendations for them.
@@bastianfuentes8335 2000 people converting from Vegan diets to keto or Carnivore, I wonder where there Vegan diet consisted of. Also when someone goes the Keto or Carnivore route sponsors an industry that murders. So My question to you is what did the Animal did to you to deserved to be murdered?
There are plenty of people coming from the standard American diet to the vegan diet, and seen improvements. And then went from the vegan diet to the keto/carnie diet and seen improvement. More and more ex-vegans turned carnivores are coming and growing quicker than you realize.
I don’t know about keto. I have a bunch of friends that went keto from regular diets for losing weight. Most of them struggled then struggled again then eventually went back. Then the vegans I know all look really good for their ages., and no one is sluggish The keto people, no one wants to go all plants, don’t see want scares people about plant based, it’s same food.
I stopped eating animals 37 years ago and guess what? I've never had a protein deficiency nor any major health problems. I eat about 50% raw and I'm grateful I discovered this at only 21 yrs old.
@@Kylewraps in the morning I have Matcha tea, plain or with a little oat milk. Mid morning I drink a protein drink, like sun warrior protein. I vary the vanilla and chocolate I might add a banana and make a smoothie or just mix it half almond milk half water drinking the protein early in the day helps me from getting too hungry and balances my blood sugar. Lunch is usually raw, an apple or orange, celery with peanut butter salad with apple cider vinegar, olive oil, hemp seeds lots of greens and veggies. Dinner I like cooked food, a quinoa or rice bowl with lots of spices and sauces I make with tahini or basil pesto. I do a lot of soups with veggies beans, rice, pasta.. I must say I eat a big quantity of food I guess just like animals do when they’re grazing on plants! lol
@@KatieKamala I was eating PB and Celery recently btw they have squeezable peanut butter now I also drink tahini very underrated with how much protein it has and almost no net carbs I also use Sun warrior protein too!
It certainly felt like a mock-meat commercial. I understand the point, they are a bridge food that many people need to know more about. Still… it felt like a 4-part commercial.
I have a masters degree in science and have first author studies published in peer reviewed journals in the area of biological science and health-related outcomes. I also work in a medical field and have to critique scientific literature to make recommendations for patients under my care. I'm not yet vegan but have significantly cut down animal product consumption due to the existing evidence about both the impact on health and climate change and am definitely well on the way towards plant based diet. I had an issue with the way the Netflix documentary was presented in terms of the inherent bias (which Mic agrees with at 1:10). The problem with bias is that it is not 'just' bias, it impacts the entire credibility of the results reported. The documentary would have had more credibility if it focused on the methodology of the study (what the fuck did the glow in the dark sprayed on the chicken or a dude opening a vegan restaurant have to do with anything?). I think dismissing people who have raised concerns about this bias as 'anti-vegan' is a little bit insulting towards those of us with a science background. Note I am just referring to the Netflix documentary and not the peer reviewed paper itself.
I agree with you. The series should be renamed differently and the narrative should have been more on animal diet impact on evironment and how unhealthy is mass animal product production. The storyline about twins themselves where rather on the surface.
Also a scientist, but have been vegan for 7 years. I’m not sure why you take issue with the documentary’s bias. It’s a documentary, of course it’s going to be biased. If want learn more about their methodology read the paper.
That's my partner and I's thoughts too. They could have focused on supporting studies if they didn't want to go into the methodology too much also. It was frustrating.
It's a good point coming from someone who works as an expert witness and who's career involves studying the validity of evidence. The Netflix shows are too dramatic sometimes, but that is the world of Television. The credibility is in the studies themselves. It is the same with the blue zone study on Netflix. If you read the blue zone study itself it is a very credible and interesting piece of work (it's basically a vast data collection) that the TV show doesn't do enough justice of. The Loma Linda study, which is just outside LA, of the 9,000 adventists who live to an average age of 89 for men and 91 for women, 10 years longer than the average American, on vegan/vegetarian/ or mostly plant based is currently the very based case for any community in the western world looking to base diet and lifestyle on healthy life.
The contamination with pathogens in animal food can definitely be a reason for some people to stop eating them. The possibility of success of a restaurant when moving towards a plan based menu can be a motivation for people working in that industry. I find both stories had their place in the narrative.
My own health and youthful appearance in my 60s are arguments strong enough for me that plants are the true queens. I have never had any diagnosis in my life. When someone starts discussing with me how we need meat for muscles and milk for bones, I just ask him how many medicines he takes for their illnesses. Great video as always 👍
My mom is nearly 60 now and has been vegetarian for 30 years, and now vegan for the last 5 years. She is FREQUENTLY mistaken for being her two sisters daughter by strangers. She literally looks 20 years younger than them. I think her eating lots of planta and no meat has made her age WAAAAY better.
Nothing has changed in the 15 years since I went vegan. A large portion of the populace has a deep seeded, emotional and psychological aversion to the idea of giving up animal products, and will actively deny, in spite of overwhelming evidence, that there’s any benefit in doing so.
The main opposition to vegan, is a spreading of doubt. Yet to me over 40 years vegan ive never had any doubt Its the normal way , to be peaceful to all nature !
@@DanteLikesRock but for me it's been fine for health, maybe it did it right , actually looking at life in a wholistic way it seems obvious to me , it's healthy to pioneer new ways of eating , finding harmony within. A slauter house is not healthy for body to mind or spirit !
@@Thenineoh who cares? if youre basing your health purely on meaningless cholesterol numbers then you're already clueless, that was your first mistake.
To be honest, as a vegan, I found it pretty heavy handed in its bias. If I werent a vegan that would have irked me. I think when the science of a whole food plant based diet speaks for itself (which it does) thats really all you need to show is the results in a neutral manner. But yeah, even though I enjoyed it, but can understand some of the criticism.
I saw a commentary where it shows these people placing erroneous reviews are actually working for the meat and dairy. They seem to be everywhere. This is probably where some of that money they get in subsidies go.
100% In my state, cattle ranchers are required to pay dues to the Beef Council that then lobbies throughout the state. Wait til you see how many registered dietitians work for meat and dairy lobbyists. As a nutrition student, I was forced to sit through a 5 hour Beef Council lecture that included forcing me to watch them butcher and cook meat. It was awful.
@@jassy0903 yes, they point at vegans for forcing people, yet we only educate. The best form of dictatorship is lies. Lies change your mind perspective, therefore your behavior. They control people through lies.
@@jassy0903so the school you're attending is funded at least in part by that Beef Council, I presume? Otherwise, why would a 5 hour meat production video be part of the curriculum. 🤔
No doubt about it. I saw a “drink milk” ad the other day and the surreal-ness was so off putting and the propaganda seemed so obvious. I just thought, how are people so blind? Imagine if we had commercials that just said “Drive cars.” and then in small print “(Paid for by the automotive industry)”. Eyebrows would collectively raise but because it’s the dairy and beef industry, suddenly it’s something important worth listening to.
One thing I wish the documentary did was call the diet plant-based. And have them explain that vegans are plant-based, but not everyone plant-based is vegan because veganism is an ethical stance, not a diet. It's a little concerning to me that most non-vegans don't understand the difference.
Sir, what is your testosterone level? Can you tell me how it makes any sense whatsoever that eating meat could be bad for humans when it’s what humans have been eating and surviving on for hundreds of thousands of years??? The human race literally would not exist on planet earth if our ancestors didn’t hunt and eat animals! If we go back far enough in time ALL of our ancestors were hunter-gatherers, with a huge emphasis on HUNTING. That is how humans were able to survive. We could not even eat enough plant foods to subsist on until the development of civilization and agriculture. Think about this please - the fact that you even have the option to be a vegan is entirely a luxury of our modern society. So how could it be “natural” for humans to only eat plant foods…? No matter what you say, it simply makes no sense whatsoever to claim that eating meat is bad for the human body and that we should only be eating plants. That is literally nonsense. Not to mention that animal based protein and other nutrients are far more bioavailable and there are many essential nutrients that are only found in animal sources and vegans will be deficient in these things, period. So wtf.
"Sir, what is your testosterone level?" He did a whole video on that. I think it was 666. "Can you tell me how it makes any sense whatsoever that eating meat could be bad for humans when it’s what humans have been eating and surviving on for hundreds of thousands of years???" A) Just because we ate it for a long time doesn't mean it was the healthiest thing we could have eaten. B) Meat has changed (including the fact that we eat much fattier meat now and many toxic chemicals naturally accumulate at high levels in the fat of animals. C) How we eat meat has changed (less likely to be fresh, more additives). D) We have changed. Add those up, and figuring our what is healthiest for us to eat now has absolutely zero to do with what humans used to eat. Take care.
Ever notice that its usually doctors and science vs. weight lifting type of You Tube influencers? I am on Twitter and every time I post a Vegan leaning study or news that favors Vegan I lose a lot of followers. People don't want to hear anything that says to eat plants. Thank you for your videos! We are lucky to have your reviews!
oh theres definitely reason as to why they unfollowed you lol... they just know better. If you want another perspective other than what you've been told by mainstream "nutrition experts"... i have a science-based playlist on my channel called "veganism debunked".
Because eating meat is the best way of maximizing strength and hypertrophy goals, eating plants will never give you the same effect in that area. If it wasn't true, we would see top athletes that are plant based, but that doesn't exist.
I thought the study / show was very poorly executed. Most of the show felt like advertising for vegan companies, and a heavy handed rehash of other better vegan documentaries. The study portion was terrible because they used twins for genetic control but also included a fitness regimen that they adhered to differently.
They tried to make the study more applicable to real life, that's why they provided ready-made meals for only the first half of the study. I can see both the pros and cons in that.
@@CharlieFader The problem is that they weren’t measuring how easy it was to stick to the diet - they were measuring health benefits, which is hard to do if everyone is eating different things. Many people admitted to not even eating the premade meals, which makes the final comparison kinda pointless
@@Pwnation98 that’s closer to a real life scenario though, for someone following a new (to them) diet like a healthy plant-based diet. And still we could see the better health outcomes.
Low-carb, carnivores, keto, etc. will dismiss any study that is not a RCT. Here we are, a very well conducted RCT and they won't accept it because it doesn't show what they want. 😂😂
Because a plant based diet are diet like vegetarian, pescaerian, Mediterranean, and diets that also some include meat dairy, honey and/or eggs. The vegan diet is not a plant based diet and unhealthy. It is plant exclusive diet like how a carnivore diet is animal product exclusive diet.
Not true, Veganism isn't a diet. It is a lifestyle. Vegans don't wear animal skin, they don't use products tested on animals, and so on. Calling it a diet is disservice to the animals who suffer outside of the food industry. The right term is plant based diet, as Mara said. Please look up the definition of Veganism. @@GarudaLegends
True. So nice. I am my own interventional crossover study. 95% whole plant based to 50% plant based or even lower, and back to close to 100% whole plant. Also randomized because I did not know about WFPB diet until I was back to close to 95% whole plant. God bless!
Vegan for four years now, and at least 10 years being pro vegan but for 6 of those 10 I was too fond of the taste and how much easyier it was. I can say that a lot of people are just being childish when they go on attacking vegans. Its just their response to not wanting to take responsibility. Most people I have close to me are aware and agree with me but have a difficult time going full vegan. I think some of them may become vegan, I hope so.
Was really creepy how they promoted porn in the documentary. Impossible to know whether porn is consensual for the woman or not. To watch porn you have to be OK with the fact that this could be a rape scene you are watching. I had to skip that part but the rest of the documentary was interesting. I liked the bit where the chicken farmer changed his shed into a mushroom farm! Very cool
This is one part that confuses me. The vegans had a lower calorie count because they simply chose to eat less. Which means they voluntarily chose to eat less protein. Which accounts for the lack of not just muscle gain but muscle loss. So, one could expect when eating ad libitum, this would indeed be the case in real life?
Yes, but just make sure you're having a decent amount of legumes/beans/lentils, tofu/edamame, and higher protein veggies to make sure protein levels aren't too low, especially if active like myself :)
When I went vegetarian (not vegan) in 1988, we didn't have the internet or resources about nutrition other than the occasional dusty 1960s book in the library. Within two months, I shed around 25 pounds involuntarily. This is the point where I made an active effort to do more diet research, get to the gym and get more protein into my diet. Within a year, I gained back the 25 pounds and added an additional 20 pounds of muscle. I suspect that the study subjects in the Netflix show who were placed on vegan diets were new to all of this and not really aware of their protein intake.
Going vegan/vegetarian isn’t good for you long term. Red meat is very beneficial if you exercise and keep yourself disciplined with a diet you’ll have a perfectly healthy life but the average person doesn’t do that.
Vegan here. The netflix show was bad. It should have been less super biased as to attract non vegans to watch it. Right off the start - even if you didn't know anyone that was in the show (The great Dr. Gregor for example)- you could have guessed the results.
No no no. For any open-minded vegans here who want another perspective other than what you've been told by mainstream "nutrition experts"... i have a science-based playlist on my channel called "veganism debunked".
It really bothers me how people always point out vegan bias, when there’s so much bias against vegans and plant based diets. Non-vegans never feel the need to declare a conflict of interest, while vegans do (or are called biased for finding pro-vegan results in vegan studies). I cannot tell you how often I encounter people who are super biased against vegans, spouting all sorts of BS.
Thank you for your help. We really need this kind of analysis. Just like a lot of people who just went. Most of us don’t have the time and analytical literacy to figure out that their “debunking” is bogus. We have to have help knowing the details to look for so that we don’t lose courage.
The regenerative grazing thing has gained so much traction now and BC, along with a host of other greenwashing, has put out government funded ads to support it as a way to reverse the effects of climate change. The Savory institute is quoted over and over on every vegan posting. You're very good on defining the influence of conflicts of interest and how, if at all, it impacts the research. I'd like to know where the Savory Institute gets its funding. Do you want to revisit this issue Mic? Most anti vegan posts are just mindless trolling, but this issue is really getting some traction.
Permaculture has also been heavily coopted by carnis now who don't actually know the first thing about sustainable systems and simply use it as a front to justify their bad habits. Permaculture is incompatible with beef production full stop. Beef production is antithetical to the idea of sustainability in and of itself.
Thanks for the great video! I wondered why Dr. Gil Carvalho said the LDL lowering and improvements in insuline sensitivity could be explained by the weight loss. At least Layne acknowledged that it was the content of the diet that cause the improvements (more fiber, less sat fat). From Dr. Nigra I heard that lowering LDL results are not expected from such small weight losses, so this would contradict the assumption of Carvalho. Yes, I was also annoyed that the vegan group ate so much LESS protein, and that both twins were not on the same fitness program (one is walking and one weight lifting, that is quite a difference). Chris Gardner often mentions in interviews that we don't need so much protein, and that people magically 'naturally' always eat enough protein. I really wonder why the protein recommendations for the vegans were so low. I wish the study would also show from all the 22 twins, the percentages of weight loss (fat vs. muscle mass). I felt so sorry for the South African twins, who were actually encouraged to lose weight, and when they did, they were told "they did it all wrong, eating low calories". And the said their metabolism slowed down, but doesn't that always happen when people lose fat/muscles? Because you need lesse calories to maintain the same.
Not surprised. All these omnivores act like addicts. “What’s next? You gonna say we shouldn’t smoke meth? How am I suppose to become the next Walter White, bro?”
Meat eaters: A twin study is vegan propaganda! Also meat eaters: An article says tomatoes "scream" when being squeezed. Totally true! Plants feel pain! 🤦♂️
I watched the show. It was OK, but I wish they had let the science speak for itself. As a 11 year vegan, I felt that it felt like vegan propaganda to me too. I was worried about a response that discredited the science. It was very heavy on the vegan message which made it seem preachy and therefore biased from those who were doing the study. They seemed to have an agenda. I am not surprised by the pushback response. Sometimes less is more.
It's crazy because everyone I know my age wants to limit or eliminate their intake of animal products. I don't know 1 person in their 20's who want to eat meat lmao but these people in the internet just hate vegans. Like where are these haters in real life? Arkansas in a town of 800 people?
I personally love the documentary. Although many of the participants where not thrilled to start the plant based diet, in the end recognized the benefits. So, not much new for vegans but good start for omnivores with concience.
What I hate about this movie is 4+ hours of advertisement for processed food like beyond meat and Mikiko cheese. Processed food is bad- period. It does not matter if it’s meat, daily or plant-based.
@@KateeAngelAnimal fat has trans fats which we all know are some of the worst fats to eat. We don't need animal fat. Plants have all the fats we need.
It was a documentary on a study it wasn't meant to be the this is the whole study. The data came out separately, and the episodes are to show the people partaking
I just go off of how I feel, if I live 2 months less than so be it, I’ll have to die with that. But I feel like crap eating salads, bloating, gas, feeling like I had to poop 4 times a day, forget it
11:13 also if it were truly unbiased, they would show not only the cow rotation and grazing but also the cow rounding up for slaughter and eventual slaughter and the following processing.
The negative reaction speaks to many things. In modern Western society people are conditioned to loathe all forms of criticism in the spirit of a toxic individualism. The framing is such that any advice given to improve your health or wellbeing has to either completely validate the lifestyle you are already living or it will be labelled at being purposely misleading and biased. This way of thinking makes it easier to addict people to spending more money on certain products and services, as they are not in the mindset to hear criticism for the way they are choosing to live their life.
I think this series did a very good job at showing the environmental impacts of animal agriculture and it did an okay job at showing the health impacts of an omnivorous diet, but it did a piss poor job at making any of the food look enticing. Very few people would choose A or B over C, so seems like a wasted opportunity if it was supposed to be pro-vegan propaganda. Essentially, the editing for entertainment purposes sort of ruined the message IMO.
@@buckmurdock2500 very flawed thinking on your part. there are 100 other variables that come into play by adding carbs and vegetables to a diet. These should be accounted for if you truly want to blame meat.
@@DanteLikesRock Your argument has no basis. Carnivores do not eat meat only all the time. They season and flavor their food, ironically seasonings come from plants. They accompany their food with other animal products, like dairy.
Im chemical engineer with a large interest in the relationship between food an health. What I however do not understand is why majority of blogs like this dont focus on topics where there is a large consensus but have extreme standpoints without actually be a food scientist . For example ;generally it is adviceable to eat a high amount of fruits and vegetatables and limited amount of meat. But there is no consensus to go to 0 meat
It's assessing the data presented by a documentary. As a chemical engineer, you ought to have familiarized yourself with the primary subject matter befor offering a criticism of this video, but apparently did not. How odd.
@@DanteLikesRock One can not eat meat and not be a vegan. The meat eaters hate that option because they can't assign a "V" label to attack. But carnivore, no, that's not a cult, lmao . . .
Many doctors and scientists who follow the research and studies choose to go fully no animal products because, while there have been few long term studies yet published on full whole food veganism, all the studies that are available keep pointing to "the lower the animal food intake, and the more whole food the plant sources, the better the person's over-all health". It's taking actions based on the cumulative results trajectory, not on the limitation of the studies themselves. You could say it's just "getting ahead of the game," per-se.
There is currently no recommendation of ANY of countries food and health administrations that go to zero meat is better. Referring to a limited single articles doesnt prove anything, especially if you are not an authority in the field. I do not have a problem with people chosing for vegan on limited evidence but please tell it like that… . Additionally vegan is not the holy grail if you ignore the quality and go to meat replacers, sauces, sirups etcet
I also wish they'd done a better job of explaining the benefits the healthy omnivores experienced. Even getting people to just eat healthier omnivore diets would go a long way toward helping with so many of the issues we have today.
Those studies have already been done elsewhere, that's not the study this was looking at. As Dr. Greger always says, you have to ask, healthy compared to what? The point of this study was not to show that giving up junk food can make you more healthy, even if you're an omnivore, I think everyone knows that.
I think to solve this kind of backlash. Do a very similar study. Much more controlled. So food provided the entire time. Strict workout regiment that they had to attend. Matched protein intake. AND funded by both plant based and meat based groups. With meat based influencers and plant based influencers/doctors/nutritionists a part of the documentary with input into the the type of workouts and food given. THEN compare results. I bet they wouldn’t want to do that though. Cuz as a vegan I’m sure we’d still see a lot of great improvements for vegans vs omnivores. I’m not sure if they’re that confident
@@DanteLikesRock If that's the case then don't use vegan diet for the non meat eaters. Use a plant based diet. Comparing vegan to plant based is as off base as comparing ominvores and carnivores.
Um, first, you realize there is a ton of fat in vegan foods like nuts, avocados, and oils, right? Second, that’s not how fat gain/loss works anyway; it’s about energy balance.
that's only if you eat over your calorie budget. fat has more calories so it's easier to eat too many calories. but if the calories are kept to a minimum, then fat can't make you fat.
Our body needs fats. Just don't over-eat. And if you over-eat, it doesn't matter whether you eat fats or carbohydrates, the body will turn all into fat and store it
Can you please do a video on vegan diet and scar tissue formation. I came across some studies saying vegans have worse wound healing and more scar tissue. I've been vegan for almost 5 years and I've notices getting a scar from even the tiniest cuts lately. Is there a specific reason this is happening? Eg a deficiency that we can supplement to prevent this or perhaps a confounder? I hope you find it interesting and address this 😊
That's likely a deficiency or a reflection of fitness level, not necessarily the vegan diet. It could also be age, as we get older often our bodies don't heal as resiliently as it did when we were kids. You could look into supplements for better scar healing (or look into what vitamins/minerals are associated with that, then see what foods you could include/increase in your diet to account for those.) Working out and developing more muscle tone also helps with healing. Increased muscle increases blood flow to those areas of the body, which helps with healing.
@jonahwhale9047 if you knew anything about cholesterol and it's functions in the body, you would know that studies show a "u-curve', meaning that lower levels lead to worse outcomes. gym bros? what? ...I think you're talking to the wrong guy.
Needing a documentary to tell you vegetables are healthy in 2024 is hilarious to me😂😂
🤣🤣🤣
Maybe at first, but I think it's actually very depressing... 😓
Not sure store bought vegetables are healthy and not sure if you just eat plant matter you can get sufficient variety from stores, though.
@@brucejensen3081 🤦
Lots of dumb people out there who continue to deny science. 🙄
Mic, the woman who you made a video on who had a stroke on the carnivore diet is going Whole Food Plant Based! She's going to talk to Dr. Esselstyn soon!👍👍
Wow so cool! looking at that right now
Good for her!!! ❤
Liked that she exposed Ken Berry for not responding to her inquiries but Dr Esselstyn did. In fact Berry was so triggered he just made a short saying carnivores' arteries are clean as a whistle. Man is shameless.
Any links to that you can hook us up with?
WOW I NEED TO PIN A COMMENT ON MY ORIGINAL VID!
I just casually mentioned that I simply saw this documentary to my friend and she instantly got offended for no reason. Saying vegans/vegetarians are the ones contributing the most to the Amazon rainforest destruction because “all the vegan/vegetarian sh*t contains palm oil” and how all our meat land and crops for meat cannot be transformed into vegetable farming because ‘it needs to be rotated’. I was annoyed she lashed out when I simply said I just watched the documentary, but whatever lol
Palm oil most sustainable oil. More yield and less land use.
The science literally says the opposite. People will choose ignorance rather than making themselves uncomfortable.
@@AstonAcademia and it's not planted in the amazon,
Palm oil is just a distraction. If a significantly larger proportion of people gave up their meat addiction then no forests would need to be cleared anywhere for any new oil plantations.
Unfortunately, this is a reaction I have come across very frequently and it is completely uncalled for. Did you get the impression that you could just have said "you're a terrible person because you eat meat" and get exactly the same reaction?
"Oh my god, they said eat more plants. I'm going to Rotten Tomatoes and give this 1/2 star cause me no feel goody!"
😂 Thank you for the humor and great research, Mic! 🙏💚
"great research"... Lol, is that a joke?
if you actually want to open your mind and learn something , i have a playlist on my channel called "veganism debunked".
@@DanteLikesRock I found a video made by an MD who made remarkably inaccurate claims about the history of humans and their food. I don't know if this is one of the people to whom you've listened, but many of his facts were wrong and his reasoning bizarre. Please be careful. I know we went back and forth on this under a different comment, but he is wrong, and it will cause harm to people. Just a fraction of the dangerous nonsense:
'Plants don't want us to eat them', and so they try to kill us, etc. Of course plants, like all living things, have defense mechanisms. Unfortunately for them, we (along with many other mammals) have adapted alongside them, and gain from their attempts. Actually, the often minor toxins found in edible plants place mild stress on our cells that makes them far more resilient to disease. This process is called hormesis, and is likely a large part of why consuming plants is in fact healthful for us (Mattson et al, Scientific American, 2015 July).
North America had no plant food except berries and Jer. artichokes prior to European arrival. False. I live near proof of this, where the Serrano people ground flour and meal from various nuts, seeds and grassy plants on large rocks in our local mountains. Pinon nuts, and at lower altitudes honey mesquite pods, cacti, yucca root and a wide variety of other plant edibles were available.
'None of the fruits and vegetables we eat today were available more than' ....here the number changes from roughly 600 years to over 1000, depending on what he is talking about. False. We have hybrids, of course, but that happens in nature too. The plants we have now, at least the ones we have modified, are still classified with their 'parent' plants, as they are genetic descendants (and therefore not 'completely new and unheard of'). There are many large classes of plants from which we can take appropriate nutrition. Plants change over time, regardless of human interference. We are able to, and benefit greatly from, eating them because we were originally fruit eaters, who adapted to also including leafy plants in our diet.
There are quite a few other dangerous statements. Let me know if I should continue. Doctors are not biologists, anthropologists or highly trained nutrition scientists. My aunt is an MD, and admits freely that they had only 85 minutes of training, exclusively on common vitamins and minerals, and focused on the effects of deficiency. They were never required to take in-depth courses on the complexity of human nutrition, or the tens of thousands of plant compounds on which we depend for good health. I know we don't know each other, but you said things that were almost verbatim to what this ignorant doctor said. Please investigate beyond the black hole of YT, and try to avoid confirmation bias.
I wish you well.
@@mountaingirl1753 I already came to my own conclusion awhile ago that plants aren't all bad, the phenomenon of hormesis is also interesting, as I've been learning about it recently. Many in the keto/carnivore space seem to be very monochromatic in their thinking, which is hardly what human nutrition science is.
Though I still believe that humans need an animal-based diet for optimal health. Rough figures are perhaps 70% animal foods, 20% fruit, 10% green vegetables. Something like that.
@@DanteLikesRock I understand that you want to believe that this movement is correct, and your willingness to be more flexible than those who are, as you nicely put it, "monochromatic in their thinking" is admirable. We all cling to our perspectives, world views and beliefs, including me ( I strive for absolute objectivity at work, but probably fail from time to time without realizing it ). Please consider the objective truth in this statement before rejecting it: "Anatomy trumps everything, including beliefs and food preferences. Anatomical features are observable facts. They objectively show the types of foods we and other creatures evolved to eat, and thereby thrive on." (Comparative Anatomy...Mills, 2019).
I am not a vegan. That is an ethical / political stance. I eat as a primate, specifically a great ape, as that is how humans are classified. Ideally, I would ingest the occasional insect or small critter along with the abundant variety of fruit and greens that compose 85 - 99% of my diet, but rather than insects I sometimes eat some fish or egg, perhaps a few times per year, usually in very small garnish-like quantity (egg mixed into a small serving of potato salad, etc.). I do not for a moment believe those tiny, rare bits of animal product are beneficial, rather they are similar to a monthly potato chip. Not good for me, but in such a tiny quantity as to be inconsequential.
It is understandable how people, men in particular, think that 'carnivore' is more masculine. Women seem to think they are more tough and independent on it. Some individuals suffer from species envy, and want to be what they are not. Herbivores can eat very small amounts of meat (deer have been observed doing this, but it by no means makes them an omnivore or carnivore). Nature doesn't draw hard lines, she works in narrow zones of grey. I would like to see one of these angry and irrational human carnivore pretenders take on a plant-eating gorilla, or chimpanzee. There is no shame in being in the ape family. We don't need to pretend we are among the big cats.
I hope you eventually sift through the vast and growing sea of misinformation, both silly carnist ideas that benefit only meat and feed producers, and weird unscientific vegan ones that promote limited, sometimes almost single food plant diets, not so that you agree with me, but so you can better understand your own primate biology to your health benefit. If you were to reverse the ratio to 70% plant foods, the species-appropriateness would be tremendously improved (to be spot-on, that 30% would be insects and small critters, not overly large ones like modern cattle).
Suddenly people are aware that studies have been funded by companies with personal interests. Isn’t it better this company wants to open our eyes instead of lie to us for profit at the expense of our health?
Yeah the dudes criticizing the funding immediately cited papers written by cholesterol denial book authors.
ironically, it IS for profit, AND at the expense of your health. Double whammy!🤣
The vegan diet is unhealthy. Why would anyone trust a comapany telling them to stop eating health meat and eat unhealthy fake vegan meat from a lab? It is only about profit and getting ppl sick of lab slop, just to sell them supplements and drugs WHEN(not if) they get deficient and sick. It is literally not about science and all about profit.
@@MictheVegan Who are you calling cholesterol deniers? No one denies cholesterol. Having cholesterol is not a disease. Your body produces most of it. When you fast for 3 days, your LDL shoots up. Why the hell would your body all of the sudden give you heart disease? LMAO.
why would i trust a documentary that misinterprets information and delivers fake news to people to try to make them eat only plants?
I never cease to be amazed by how many people will instantly “debunk” something simply because they don’t want to hear the message. Thanks for picking their arguments apart!
As for the study behind the show, I can say that I personally know a couple of the people involved in the research. They are the real deal - top of their professions and leading researchers in the field. I fully trust what they say, and they say this study was well run and the findings are valid.
Is it the final word? No, but it definitely adds some value evidence to the growing mountain of evidence that a well-planned plant-based diet based primarily on unprocessed food is the healthiest - bar none.
Meat-eaters are selfish.
Ah, but you're biased! hahahahahaah! Sorry, couldn't help it. I don't know, perhaps it is just me, but I get the impression that there is an increasing trend of "if I don't like it, then it is not true", followed by "anyone who says what I don't want to hear, is a liar/biased/mean/malicious/delusional. And anyone who says what I want to hear is a good person." Basically, facts and reality do not seem to matter to too many people.
They, people who seem credible and professional also say the southern border of the USA is closed.🤔🤪🙄 Just a tiny food for thought. Or the president is full of vigor and is the most transparent person ever in that position.😂 Ever see Binder talk her nonsense on TV? Don't believe most people in either direction of this topic. Just eat natural food that was around 15,000 years ago and most people would thrive. And for example most but not all fruits and vegetables weren't available back then. And yes, Bacon wasn't around back then either.🤔🤫😉😇 I never have seem an animal eat a seasoned brisket or fried Buffalo wings either.🤔🤭
@@annerigby4400 It's quite funny. The vegans will dismiss a study by stating the scientists involved or the funding was "carnist" . And then, they don't apply that same standard to their own studies and question motivations. In addition, they fall for documentaries. As if documentaries are the same as a well-planned and peer reviewed scientific study. This is religious thinking.
And they're not vegans. They're just medicalizing the lifestyle/moral system of veganism. They're not even medical experts or have any real world experience with people's health other than their own. They think because they thrive, all other people will thrive. Yeah.. a load of people tried veganism and it didn't work out for them. it wasn't because they didn't try or apply the rules. They were killing themselves but the vegan zealots don't see that medical room.
@@Jason-cz3bvyou at too, you don't eat meat to feel good yourself, you don't do it for the animals 😂 you do it to not feel guilty, so selfish aswell...
I felt bad for that one male twin who had to move 3x in a month, they were saying he didn’t improve like they wanted him to and said he didn’t try hard enough… well ya he had a lot going on!
It amazes me how people think omnivores could not be biased towards their own diet choices. Why should we trust someone who eats meat to be unbiased anymore than someone who doesn't? Most likely, someone who don't mind changes to their diet in line with new evidence is less biased than someone who is just holding on to their habits because they don't want to change.
@guitarszen I agree, humans are frugivorous herbivores. Besides fruit, frugivorous apes usually eat all kinds of plants, nuts, seeds, roots, tubers, shoots, bark, leaves, as well as insects and small animals sometimes.
@guitarszen wow, really? So why are you taking B12 pills...? Humans are carnivores as they can survive only on meat.
@guitarszen 💯% correct.
@@carinaekstrom1 We have forward looking eyes with great depth and colour vision. Perfect for being in the trees looking for ripe fruits. I always ask carnies where they think we got such great colour vision for, cave paintings?
@@11235Aodh Absolutely, and our whole digestive system is built for mainly plants. That's why we have such a hard time getting rid of excess cholesterol, etc.
And as far as cave paintings, of course they would paint people challenging big animals, it's not like anyone would find it dramatic enough to paint someone picking berries or digging for roots. Those paintings say nothing about how often it was done or how successful it was. If it wasn't a great challenge and just an everyday thing, they probably wouldn't find it exciting enough to paint it.
Let the critics repeat the study with corrections and get different results, if they think there were flaws.
repeat the study with people who were already vegan vs. Carnivores. I would LOVE to see that, too bad it won't happen.
Those who want it can eat meat, those who don't want don't eat it
@SadullahDemirkaya the issue is those eating meat get more chronic illnesses stressing the medical system. That's a huge issue in Canada where I live. And meat eating is directly linked to climate change, biodiversity loss, pollution, acidification, antibiotic overuse, pandemics etc. That impacts me, not just you. You can't dump chemicals in the water, there are regulations to protect the community. This is an issue for all of us - eating meat should be regulated but no politician will do the right thing. I think your insistence on choice is selfish and misguided
I am 66 years old and going on 7 years. Plant-based and I feel fantastic. I signed up for medicare of course, and the only use of it last year for me was to get my cataracts fixed and to do my welcome to medicare physical, which was fantastic. My Blood Pressure is perfect and I take no medicines and so I have people like Mic. The vegan to thank for helping me do the transition back when I did it. And I'm a happy camper being plant-based. And will never go back, but people can eat whatever they want to eat. That's fine, just leave me alone. It's amazing how people like to pick on me for what I do.
if only you knew the harm you were doing to yourself, sadly it is a phase one has to go through in order to find the truth.
That’s wonderful to hear. Not only are you in good health, but you save taxpayers thousands of dollars in healthcare costs, so there’s a community benefit, as well. I think countries would do well to incentivise plant based eating, as there are so many personal and societal benefits.
@@user-no2mz9hl4f no. the opposite is true.
@@DanteLikesRock no, the opposite is true.
🤡
@@DanteLikesRock what harm exactly ? pretty much every scientiest disgrees with you
The negative reaction to vegan lifestyle is just irrational. People just aren’t comfortable with other people thinking differently than they do.
No, just not comfortable with people challenging their addiction!
People only like hearing good news about their bad habits
And people are especially uncomfortable when science supports that something they don't wanna do is healthy lol. So they start denying science 😅
I think it's much more often vegans complaining about the diet of others and trying to convert omnivores to veganism than the other way around.
@@cyberfunk3793Yeah, because vegans care about other things like animals, the environment and health, not just taste pleasure. Look at most of these people - Fat and sick.
Carnists are welcome to make their own TRANSPERENT study on twins.
What hit me most was the lifespan difference in those 8 miles.
Right ? They never do and always criticise others
that money from $beyond meat$ was really handy @@imhassane
@@imhassane hey hey, anecdotal claims tho, science is clearly lying, Plant-Based food is clearly the richest industry in the world, we give all of our tax money to them, they are clearly controlling all the media and science studies, they are just lying constantly in order to force us to eat more plants that will kill us, the only real truth is people on the internet telling you how great they feel on carnivore diet with no studies to back it up
@@imhassane sorry we don't have corporations trying to make money on carnivore yet to fund those studies :P
@@shellderp False. It’s been the same story for many low carb diets. No studies on it but people follow them and even when the funding was available they chose not to do studies on it, best example is Atkins.
I will tell my story. I was whole foods omnivore for many years, do not consume red meat, but lots of diary, eggs. I saw the hate towards vegans in soc media, but never understood why and was probably too ignorant to check why. Then I've started to notice more and more people promoting carnivore and maxing out on protein, especially animal. I was following Peter Attia and he was one of those. Then I've noticed some pattern in those carnivore evangelists - some of them tend to be of a certain profile - angry, irrational, pushy...and conspiracy theorists. The more I was listening to them saying that there is a huge conspiracy which wants to take away meat from people (wtf???), the more I got the feeling that there cannot be that those guys are intelligent people, so their push for carnivore, max protein cannot be intelligent joice. And here I am, after watching Twin experiment, bought a book How not to die :-) Lets see where it will lead me.
Awesome, enjoy!
Amazing! You will not regret it!
I have never met a carnivore in real life. Know plenty that I would consider eat too much meat. They are a very loud minority. I go for moderation, I would think getting a bit much protein is better than not enough, especially in the elderly, which is what attia is going on about
Mic has a recent video on the psychology of anti vegans, it's extremely interesting
It's simple, just follow your nature and eat what you are designed to eat as human. And that's meat only, actually. You can't die doing that.
carnist can't have anything threatening their addictions.
What is addictive about it? Carnists eat less frequently than vegans do. How much do you need to eat in a day to meet the same nutrient contents of that in a steak?
More likely their Cognitive Dissonance.
I love animals while chewing a Dead body in theirs mouth.
.... What? Frequency of consumption is not synonymous with addiction. For example a person who lives in a hot climate is not more addicted to water because they drink more than those in cooler climates.
The level of physiology incoherency from you guys is honestly astounding 🙄🙄
@@kieranstyx3633 Frequency is a strong indicator of addiction in the context of addiction. The op literally said carnists are addicted in the context of diet. I asked how are carnists addicted? She made that claim and rebuttal.
@@1st2nd43You frequently have to drink water to stay hydrated... So... Water addiction? What? 😂
Thanks. The video is convincing, those criticisms were well exposed for not being logical or fair. Videos like this one are needed. 👏👏👏
no no no... if you want another perspective other than what you've been told by mainstream "nutrition experts"...
i have a science-based playlist on my channel called "veganism debunked".
As a vegan I actually didn't care for the show that much. There are MUCH BETTER documentaries that highlight plant based diets for health reasons. I agree with some of the criticism. I mostly didn't like that it felt like a commercial for processed vegan junk food. Then it was showing that one restaurant a lot. Why? This has nothing to do with the twins. And since they are eating for health why show off all the vegan junk food. It was like it was trying to say those products are healthy when they aren't. I do eat those products sometimes but I would never call them healthy.
They did it genius, because lots of people who go vegan don't want to give up the foods they love overnight, you have to give them times to transition, the junk foods are to help them move to a healthier diet over time
Yes - vegan fake meats, crackers and dips, etc. Helped me transition to a whole food plant based diet with more whole foods.
fully agree with you. it was strange that instead promoting whole food plant based diet, lots of attention was towards "how to engineer plant based product, which tastes and looks like meat". I am not a professional of course, but those meat, cheese substitutes do not look to me like a whole foods.
@@ZmogusJaponija it's a stepping stone to better plant-based food.
A commercial for processed food? We must have watched a different documentary.
The story of the restaurant is indeed very relevant, because if Michelin star restaurants (the peak of European gastronomy) can change, so can smaller establishments.
I'm glad Netflix makes documentaries like this. Makes more people aware of the benefits of plants.
where is the science ? vegan propaganda for idiots who dont know what science is
If you want high triglycerides and low HDL… then have at it.
@@shiftgood This is not fact-based.
@@tamcon72 Yes it is.
@aeoninnovations appeal to emotions is your only tactic.
I've seen the doc-u-series it seemed very fair in the results. They actually tried to educate you along with the experiences in the twins study. It showed how minds change with experience.
Great video, you really add so much knowledge about these things. ❤
I learned I need to eat more calories for sure.
Great point! Minds do change based on diet. Myelin Sheath - the stuff used to line and protect your nerves are made of Cholesterol. If you were to guess which diet reduces myelin sheath in the nerves and brain, which one would you choose?
Calories means nothing in nutrition. It is an observation in physics, a construct of an energy model. Calories has no weight nor mass, it is not dense and you cannot weigh calories on a scale. It is a useless metric.
@@Ariel-oo1nc What's up with your riddle? I know my previous diet of high cholesterol caused a lot of health issues. I am very grateful for having reduced my cholesterol on a vegan diet. I learned I can eat more calories without cholesterol and build muscle. I feel you want to make a point about cholesterol being an important part of brain function. I agree but my body creates enough for me to be a professional engineer and reducing any extra cholesterol from outside sources did help me maintain a lower blood pressure to be calm in difficult situations. I hope you understand that extra cholesterol doesn't make you have super powers with your brain functions.
@@1st2nd43they mean a lot. Physics does apply to human body too, can you imagine? And units are used to describe energy content for a reason
@@KateeAngel Yes, they are described in units as a heat. But calories are a poor way to assess diet because it is more nuanced than that and 500 calories in a steak is different than 500 calories in a cake. A much more intuitive way is to measure what is measurable in grams. Our bodies are not made up of calories, we are made of up of fat and protein and sugar and water. That is measurable.
I saw Nina Teicholz dismiss the docu because of the funding....as if she isnt getting payed by meat corps. 🤷
She's a joke! And the many people posting on her FB page about this were really ludicrous!
for any open-minded vegans here who want another perspective other than what you've been told by mainstream "nutrition experts"...
i have a science-based playlist on my channel called "veganism debunked".
Also like... who else is going to fund it? Ladies' Foot Locker? Penguin Books? Of course it's going to be people who would benefit from the predictable results lol
@@DanteLikesRockyou’re part of the social media establishment. You can’t be trusted.
I am watching the documentary right now and I went on TH-cam and I see this video from you
I encourage everyone to try it for 3 months. I’m 63, 10+ years WFPB and I’m never going back. I’m on no meds and my BP, weight, blood sugar and lipids all straightened out. I am a runner, do spin cycle and yoga. I have energy and feel good. So much better than before. Even if some studies showed a health benefit from fish or some other animal- I wouldn’t eat it now. I do not want to harm an animal and I want to help with climate change. Plant based for life. Try it for yourself. You will feel great. It’s amazing.
This is how I got my partner to turn. I asked him to try it for 1 month, and he felt so much better at the end of that month he decided to stick to it. That was 5 or 6 years ago.
I do distance running. Friends are always asking how the heck I manage it. I tell them, consistent training and diet!! Some listen but most want to be ignorant. Rich Roll is a great roll model.
role model, get it ??
I'm the only person who doesn't have a bias. Everyone else is the problem 😂
Meat is in reality a processed or refined foodstuff. In the wild, real carnivores and omnivores consume hide, fur, gristle and small bones along with the meat itself. Carnivores in zoos and domestic carnivores like housecats seem to do less well when fed only meat without accompanying roughage.
You know.. we did develop tools to hunt animals, these tools were also developed to skin and cut....and we can eat the bone...when it is cooked. Bro.
In the wild, those animals may consume fur and gristle, but do not digest it. It comes back out.
@@1st2nd43 Yes, it is roughage just like plant fibre. it has multiple health benefits.
@@tomgoff7887 The most health benefit is in the muscle meat and fat. That is what predators are hunting for and what their digestive system basically digests completely. There is not any fat or muscle meat in their feces.
@@tomgoff7887predators need it but omnivores don't cause they eat enough fiber already
@@tomgoff7887 Didn't know that dogs had this, so they also alongside humans got the amylase adaption in their genes. Literally the dogs ate from the humans pot. (what's even more amazing is that both species did this on a diet high in meat and low on carbs /s)
You're an Angel Michael, keep caring and Loving the Innocent babes , you do this world a service..... your diligence and the constant time you put into this information, THE ANIMAL KINGDOM LOVE YOU.................
Mic lied to you. How are you still this clueless lol?
I love how there's the massive claims of bias, but no one blinks an eye when milk companies fund studies to say how good cow's milk is for you... ok.
cow milk is disgusting, people have been desensitized to the fact it's disgusting by marketing.
I was actually surprised how honest the study was. Not everyone lost fat, some of the things measured didn’t show significant change. They were pretty open about the results. What I did find interesting is how everyone in the vegan group lost more visceral fat, even the twins who were already in great shape.
Thanks for the follow-up Mic. Once again, very informative! I wish I could watch the documentary, but unfortunately, I don't have a Nexflix account and I have no immediate plans to sign-up for one. Hopefully, in the future, they'll make the documentary available on other platforms, such as Prime or TH-cam. I will, however, plan on taking a look at the underlying study to gain more knowledge of the specific methodologies and outcomes. As always, you provide a valuable service, Mic.
I think they offer a first month free. You could sign up just for that and then discontinue.
@@mayhu3282 excellent suggestion. Thank you!
@mayhu3282 it doesn’t anymore! I tried that :(
It's so weird. I mean just ignoring the whole should you eat meat or not part of it. Everyone knows adding more plants into your diet improves your health. What is the issue?
It doesn't. Removing pressed food, refined carbs, refined sugar, vegetable/seed oil is all that matters. You can eat 70% meat in you diet and be healthier than all vegans. Vegetables and grains are not need at all.
@@GarudaLegendsYour claims have zero scientific backing.
@@David-kx7tz have fun eating your daily meal of your American deep fried proceed food dunked in toxic vegetable/seed oils, with your tube of soda, and all the potato chips you can eat. ROTF
@@GarudaLegends That's a false dichotomy. What you are saying literally has nothing to do with what I'm saying. Those things will make you healthier, but so will eating more fruits and veggies. A bad diet with more broccoli is healthier than a bad diet without it.
@@InfiniteQuest86 wait. Who actually told you that nonsense? You really think adding broccoli to a bad diet is good or makes the diet better? ROTF, that is the most unscientific thing I ever heard. Are you vegan? Vegetables are absolutely not needed in the diet to be healthy. In Hong Kong they have the highest life expectancy and eat the most meat on earth, while In India they come a heavy vegan/vegetarian diet and have horrible life expectancy. Eating more vegetables is just a waste of money, and has no bearing on health being better. Im not against plant, but I get all my nutrients from meat and fruit hypercarnivore diet without suppliments, which all vegans and most vegetarians require.
13:39 "60% of Americans didn't meet the 2.5 serving minimum of fruit and vegetables combined."
That is astonishing. IF a serving is indeed 85 g, THEN that means they don't even get 212.5 g a day? That is barely the weight of a decent apple. Astonishing.
even fewer get the daily recommendation for fiber. The carnivores all scream fiber is not necessary or even harmful. It is astonishing.
@@buckmurdock2500 It is. I just don't get it. What are all these people eating? For the carnivores, it seems a no-brainer, unless (perhaps) they devour cows or pigs in their entirety, including the contents of their organs, but the others? I just had a look, and (not including today, which isn't over yet) I had a daily average of 63 g over the past week and I am not even trying to 'get fibre'.
@jonahwhale9047 Good question. The whole 'serving' thing rings ridiculous to me. Are Americans really so uneducated that they don't know how to read a scale?
The issue with tomato paste is a bit more complicated. Two tablespoons (30 g) are somewhat comparable to 125 g of tomato, so that comparison seems more or less fair.
As for school lunches, if it were up to me, I would have voted in favour of the vegetables, but against limiting potatoes. Potatoes may not be the ideal vegetable, but they are far preferable to junk food. We should not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
@jonahwhale9047 When a product is plant-BASED that doesn't mean it is a vegetable or a fruit or both. Olive oil is made from a plant, that doesn't mean it is a plant.
@jonahwhale9047 Jocularity doesn't always come through in short bursts. I was misled by the "limited amount of potatoes allowed" because potatoes are a very good vegetable.
That said, maybe the education system in the west has changed. When I went to school and med school, decades ago, "eat more vegetables" was a common exhortation and that definitely did not mean "as little as you guess you can get away with" which is what many people seem to live by these days.
Thank You Mic
When anyone in my 50 & over weight lifting fb group post about this series there's loads of comments claiming it's vegan propaganda, sponsored by beyond meat, that the vegan lost muscle, biased etc pity that they just repeat the reviews they've read or a youtuber because they always say the same criticism.
To the meatheads who always complain about vegan "bias" --- did it ever occur to you it may be because we've seen or experienced first hand the amazing effects on health, and evidence based science supports it? That's not bias, that's common sense!
while i agree with you, there is also plenty of meat heads who claim to feel better on k3to and c4rnivore diets. i don't even want to write those words out 'cause i don't want to get ads/video recommendations for them.
There's a ton of people experiencing even better results after leaving vegan diets and going keto or carnivore. Your comment proves nothing.
@@bastianfuentes8335 2000 people converting from Vegan diets to keto or Carnivore, I wonder where there Vegan diet consisted of. Also when someone goes the Keto or Carnivore route sponsors an industry that murders. So My question to you is what did the Animal did to you to deserved to be murdered?
There are plenty of people coming from the standard American diet to the vegan diet, and seen improvements. And then went from the vegan diet to the keto/carnie diet and seen improvement. More and more ex-vegans turned carnivores are coming and growing quicker than you realize.
I don’t know about keto. I have a bunch of friends that went keto from regular diets for losing weight. Most of them struggled then struggled again then eventually went back. Then the vegans I know all look really good for their ages., and no one is sluggish The keto people, no one wants to go all plants, don’t see want scares people about plant based, it’s same food.
these debunkers should apply to stanford! (for football tickets)
Seventh Day Adventist is So. Cal. live an average of 10 years longer than the rest of U.S. population. They are vegan.
they *claim to be vegan, and they do the opposite when no-one is looking. Didn't you know that?
I stopped eating animals 37 years ago and guess what? I've never had a protein deficiency nor any major health problems. I eat about 50% raw and I'm grateful I discovered this at only 21 yrs old.
What does your diet consist of?
@@Kylewraps in the morning I have Matcha tea, plain or with a little oat milk. Mid morning I drink a protein drink, like sun warrior protein. I vary the vanilla and chocolate I might add a banana and make a smoothie or just mix it half almond milk half water drinking the protein early in the day helps me from getting too hungry and balances my blood sugar.
Lunch is usually raw, an apple or orange, celery with peanut butter salad with apple cider vinegar, olive oil, hemp seeds lots of greens and veggies. Dinner I like cooked food, a quinoa or rice bowl with lots of spices and sauces I make with tahini or basil pesto. I do a lot of soups with veggies beans, rice, pasta.. I must say I eat a big quantity of food I guess just like animals do when they’re grazing on plants! lol
@@KatieKamala I was eating PB and Celery recently btw they have squeezable peanut butter now
I also drink tahini very underrated with how much protein it has and almost no net carbs
I also use Sun warrior protein too!
@@Kylewrapsexcellent 😊
I don't use protein powder, but I, too, have never had a protein deficiency. Cut out meat 25 years ago.
It certainly felt like a mock-meat commercial. I understand the point, they are a bridge food that many people need to know more about. Still… it felt like a 4-part commercial.
I have a masters degree in science and have first author studies published in peer reviewed journals in the area of biological science and health-related outcomes. I also work in a medical field and have to critique scientific literature to make recommendations for patients under my care. I'm not yet vegan but have significantly cut down animal product consumption due to the existing evidence about both the impact on health and climate change and am definitely well on the way towards plant based diet. I had an issue with the way the Netflix documentary was presented in terms of the inherent bias (which Mic agrees with at 1:10). The problem with bias is that it is not 'just' bias, it impacts the entire credibility of the results reported. The documentary would have had more credibility if it focused on the methodology of the study (what the fuck did the glow in the dark sprayed on the chicken or a dude opening a vegan restaurant have to do with anything?). I think dismissing people who have raised concerns about this bias as 'anti-vegan' is a little bit insulting towards those of us with a science background. Note I am just referring to the Netflix documentary and not the peer reviewed paper itself.
I agree with you. The series should be renamed differently and the narrative should have been more on animal diet impact on evironment and how unhealthy is mass animal product production. The storyline about twins themselves where rather on the surface.
Also a scientist, but have been vegan for 7 years. I’m not sure why you take issue with the documentary’s bias. It’s a documentary, of course it’s going to be biased. If want learn more about their methodology read the paper.
That's my partner and I's thoughts too. They could have focused on supporting studies if they didn't want to go into the methodology too much also. It was frustrating.
It's a good point coming from someone who works as an expert witness and who's career involves studying the validity of evidence. The Netflix shows are too dramatic sometimes, but that is the world of Television. The credibility is in the studies themselves. It is the same with the blue zone study on Netflix. If you read the blue zone study itself it is a very credible and interesting piece of work (it's basically a vast data collection) that the TV show doesn't do enough justice of. The Loma Linda study, which is just outside LA, of the 9,000 adventists who live to an average age of 89 for men and 91 for women, 10 years longer than the average American, on vegan/vegetarian/ or mostly plant based is currently the very based case for any community in the western world looking to base diet and lifestyle on healthy life.
The contamination with pathogens in animal food can definitely be a reason for some people to stop eating them.
The possibility of success of a restaurant when moving towards a plan based menu can be a motivation for people working in that industry.
I find both stories had their place in the narrative.
My own health and youthful appearance in my 60s are arguments strong enough for me that plants are the true queens. I have never had any diagnosis in my life.
When someone starts discussing with me how we need meat for muscles and milk for bones, I just ask him how many medicines he takes for their illnesses. Great video as always 👍
My mom is nearly 60 now and has been vegetarian for 30 years, and now vegan for the last 5 years. She is FREQUENTLY mistaken for being her two sisters daughter by strangers. She literally looks 20 years younger than them.
I think her eating lots of planta and no meat has made her age WAAAAY better.
@@fromeveryting29 I am happy for your mother 👍
Notification squad!
Nothing has changed in the 15 years since I went vegan. A large portion of the populace has a deep seeded, emotional and psychological aversion to the idea of giving up animal products, and will actively deny, in spite of overwhelming evidence, that there’s any benefit in doing so.
there is no evidence whatsoever. Rigged epidemiology isn't evidence.
The main opposition to vegan, is a spreading of doubt.
Yet to me over 40 years vegan ive never had any doubt
Its the normal way , to be peaceful to all nature !
if peace to nature is your goal fine, but never NEVER try to say it is health.
@@DanteLikesRock but for me it's been fine for health, maybe it did it right , actually looking at life in a wholistic way it seems obvious to me , it's healthy to pioneer new ways of eating , finding harmony within.
A slauter house is not healthy for body to mind or spirit !
@@DanteLikesRock i'll say it's health. I switched to a 100% plant based diet and my cholesterol dropped by 60% within just a few weeks
@@Thenineoh who cares? if youre basing your health purely on meaningless cholesterol numbers then you're already clueless, that was your first mistake.
Or has the debunking been debunked?
Debunkingception!
To be honest, as a vegan, I found it pretty heavy handed in its bias. If I werent a vegan that would have irked me. I think when the science of a whole food plant based diet speaks for itself (which it does) thats really all you need to show is the results in a neutral manner. But yeah, even though I enjoyed it, but can understand some of the criticism.
I saw a commentary where it shows these people placing erroneous reviews are actually working for the meat and dairy. They seem to be everywhere. This is probably where some of that money they get in subsidies go.
100% In my state, cattle ranchers are required to pay dues to the Beef Council that then lobbies throughout the state. Wait til you see how many registered dietitians work for meat and dairy lobbyists. As a nutrition student, I was forced to sit through a 5 hour Beef Council lecture that included forcing me to watch them butcher and cook meat. It was awful.
@@jassy0903 yes, they point at vegans for forcing people, yet we only educate. The best form of dictatorship is lies. Lies change your mind perspective, therefore your behavior. They control people through lies.
@@jassy0903 Damn, that's crazy. Hope you stay strong to your morals and you will become a great dietician! :)
@@jassy0903so the school you're attending is funded at least in part by that Beef Council, I presume? Otherwise, why would a 5 hour meat production video be part of the curriculum. 🤔
No doubt about it. I saw a “drink milk” ad the other day and the surreal-ness was so off putting and the propaganda seemed so obvious. I just thought, how are people so blind?
Imagine if we had commercials that just said “Drive cars.” and then in small print “(Paid for by the automotive industry)”. Eyebrows would collectively raise but because it’s the dairy and beef industry, suddenly it’s something important worth listening to.
One thing I wish the documentary did was call the diet plant-based. And have them explain that vegans are plant-based, but not everyone plant-based is vegan because veganism is an ethical stance, not a diet.
It's a little concerning to me that most non-vegans don't understand the difference.
Correct, furthermore vegan only states who you don't eat. Nothing about what you are eating.
Agreed 👍
Accurate.
Sir, what is your testosterone level? Can you tell me how it makes any sense whatsoever that eating meat could be bad for humans when it’s what humans have been eating and surviving on for hundreds of thousands of years??? The human race literally would not exist on planet earth if our ancestors didn’t hunt and eat animals! If we go back far enough in time ALL of our ancestors were hunter-gatherers, with a huge emphasis on HUNTING. That is how humans were able to survive. We could not even eat enough plant foods to subsist on until the development of civilization and agriculture. Think about this please - the fact that you even have the option to be a vegan is entirely a luxury of our modern society. So how could it be “natural” for humans to only eat plant foods…? No matter what you say, it simply makes no sense whatsoever to claim that eating meat is bad for the human body and that we should only be eating plants. That is literally nonsense. Not to mention that animal based protein and other nutrients are far more bioavailable and there are many essential nutrients that are only found in animal sources and vegans will be deficient in these things, period. So wtf.
"Sir, what is your testosterone level?" He did a whole video on that. I think it was 666.
"Can you tell me how it makes any sense whatsoever that eating meat could be bad for humans when it’s what humans have been eating and surviving on for hundreds of thousands of years???" A) Just because we ate it for a long time doesn't mean it was the healthiest thing we could have eaten. B) Meat has changed (including the fact that we eat much fattier meat now and many toxic chemicals naturally accumulate at high levels in the fat of animals. C) How we eat meat has changed (less likely to be fresh, more additives). D) We have changed.
Add those up, and figuring our what is healthiest for us to eat now has absolutely zero to do with what humans used to eat.
Take care.
Ever notice that its usually doctors and science vs. weight lifting type of You Tube influencers? I am on Twitter and every time I post a Vegan leaning study or news that favors Vegan I lose a lot of followers. People don't want to hear anything that says to eat plants. Thank you for your videos! We are lucky to have your reviews!
oh theres definitely reason as to why they unfollowed you lol... they just know better. If you want another perspective other than what you've been told by mainstream "nutrition experts"...
i have a science-based playlist on my channel called "veganism debunked".
Because eating meat is the best way of maximizing strength and hypertrophy goals, eating plants will never give you the same effect in that area. If it wasn't true, we would see top athletes that are plant based, but that doesn't exist.
@@DanteLikesRockok ok person who is feeling guilty we know you didn't do research you don't have to comment 90 timed😂
@@Nickiminajcooch what? if you're going to try make any good arguments whatsoever, atleast try to verbalize them.
@@DanteLikesRock the vegan diet has been proven to be healthier many times just accept it
I thought the study / show was very poorly executed. Most of the show felt like advertising for vegan companies, and a heavy handed rehash of other better vegan documentaries. The study portion was terrible because they used twins for genetic control but also included a fitness regimen that they adhered to differently.
They tried to make the study more applicable to real life, that's why they provided ready-made meals for only the first half of the study. I can see both the pros and cons in that.
@@CharlieFader The problem is that they weren’t measuring how easy it was to stick to the diet - they were measuring health benefits, which is hard to do if everyone is eating different things. Many people admitted to not even eating the premade meals, which makes the final comparison kinda pointless
@@Pwnation98 that’s closer to a real life scenario though, for someone following a new (to them) diet like a healthy plant-based diet. And still we could see the better health outcomes.
a joke of a study aimed to make veganism look good, which it failed at anyway.
Low-carb, carnivores, keto, etc. will dismiss any study that is not a RCT. Here we are, a very well conducted RCT and they won't accept it because it doesn't show what they want. 😂😂
When youre vegan people get so offended LOL
Carnies outraged at vegans...again.
Frankly, I dont give a damn.
Why in the world did they choose to refer to it as the "vegan" diet, why not call it plant-based smh.
Because a plant based diet are diet like vegetarian, pescaerian, Mediterranean, and diets that also some include meat dairy, honey and/or eggs. The vegan diet is not a plant based diet and unhealthy. It is plant exclusive diet like how a carnivore diet is animal product exclusive diet.
@@GarudaLegends lol
Not true, Veganism isn't a diet. It is a lifestyle. Vegans don't wear animal skin, they don't use products tested on animals, and so on. Calling it a diet is disservice to the animals who suffer outside of the food industry. The right term is plant based diet, as Mara said. Please look up the definition of Veganism. @@GarudaLegends
@@weevil8025 it is a vegan diet and it is unhealthy. Most of the world eats a plant based diet and not a vegan diet
I don’t have Netflix but I’ll watch it with someone who does. I’m my own control study.
Huh?
True. So nice. I am my own interventional crossover study. 95% whole plant based to 50% plant based or even lower, and back to close to 100% whole plant. Also randomized because I did not know about WFPB diet until I was back to close to 95% whole plant. God bless!
The carnist are trying to flip things on us. What idiots
"what idiots"
good rebuttal, solid points made.🤡
Those who want it can eat meat, those who don't want don't eat it
Vegan for four years now, and at least 10 years being pro vegan but for 6 of those 10 I was too fond of the taste and how much easyier it was. I can say that a lot of people are just being childish when they go on attacking vegans. Its just their response to not wanting to take responsibility. Most people I have close to me are aware and agree with me but have a difficult time going full vegan. I think some of them may become vegan, I hope so.
Was really creepy how they promoted porn in the documentary. Impossible to know whether porn is consensual for the woman or not. To watch porn you have to be OK with the fact that this could be a rape scene you are watching. I had to skip that part but the rest of the documentary was interesting. I liked the bit where the chicken farmer changed his shed into a mushroom farm! Very cool
This is one part that confuses me. The vegans had a lower calorie count because they simply chose to eat less. Which means they voluntarily chose to eat less protein. Which accounts for the lack of not just muscle gain but muscle loss. So, one could expect when eating ad libitum, this would indeed be the case in real life?
Yes, but just make sure you're having a decent amount of legumes/beans/lentils, tofu/edamame, and higher protein veggies to make sure protein levels aren't too low, especially if active like myself :)
When I went vegetarian (not vegan) in 1988, we didn't have the internet or resources about nutrition other than the occasional dusty 1960s book in the library. Within two months, I shed around 25 pounds involuntarily. This is the point where I made an active effort to do more diet research, get to the gym and get more protein into my diet. Within a year, I gained back the 25 pounds and added an additional 20 pounds of muscle. I suspect that the study subjects in the Netflix show who were placed on vegan diets were new to all of this and not really aware of their protein intake.
Going vegan/vegetarian isn’t good for you long term. Red meat is very beneficial if you exercise and keep yourself disciplined with a diet you’ll have a perfectly healthy life but the average person doesn’t do that.
#VeganForLife ❤
That's sad to hear.
Vegan here. The netflix show was bad. It should have been less super biased as to attract non vegans to watch it. Right off the start - even if you didn't know anyone that was in the show (The great Dr. Gregor for example)- you could have guessed the results.
ah yes... the great bobblehead greger.🤡 what a fine specimen of health... for an 80 yr old.
I guess we shall see in a decade ( or 2 or 3 or...4) if he was correct and is still alive. I'm betting on yes.@@DanteLikesRock
Thanks Mic for such a thorough review of the topic!
No no no. For any open-minded vegans here who want another perspective other than what you've been told by mainstream "nutrition experts"...
i have a science-based playlist on my channel called "veganism debunked".
It really bothers me how people always point out vegan bias, when there’s so much bias against vegans and plant based diets. Non-vegans never feel the need to declare a conflict of interest, while vegans do (or are called biased for finding pro-vegan results in vegan studies). I cannot tell you how often I encounter people who are super biased against vegans, spouting all sorts of BS.
Great hair!
Poor skin
@@1st2nd43 manners
This biased *** documentary deserves a lower rating.
Yep
Thank you for your help. We really need this kind of analysis. Just like a lot of people who just went. Most of us don’t have the time and analytical literacy to figure out that their “debunking” is bogus. We have to have help knowing the details to look for so that we don’t lose courage.
too bad Mic isn't scientifically literate in any sense whatsoever.
Meat eaters actually lost more fat and kept more muscles.. so its not all positive for the vegans
I watched the documentary. The references & experts were excellent. It was all factual & science based.
*pseudo-science based
there. Fixed it for you!👍🏻
The regenerative grazing thing has gained so much traction now and BC, along with a host of other greenwashing, has put out government funded ads to support it as a way to reverse the effects of climate change.
The Savory institute is quoted over and over on every vegan posting.
You're very good on defining the influence of conflicts of interest and how, if at all, it impacts the research.
I'd like to know where the Savory Institute gets its funding.
Do you want to revisit this issue Mic?
Most anti vegan posts are just mindless trolling, but this issue is really getting some traction.
Permaculture has also been heavily coopted by carnis now who don't actually know the first thing about sustainable systems and simply use it as a front to justify their bad habits.
Permaculture is incompatible with beef production full stop. Beef production is antithetical to the idea of sustainability in and of itself.
th-cam.com/video/KslC4B5FVjc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=H8oZDFb43PMXjdr0
This for example.
Thanks for the great video! I wondered why Dr. Gil Carvalho said the LDL lowering and improvements in insuline sensitivity could be explained by the weight loss. At least Layne acknowledged that it was the content of the diet that cause the improvements (more fiber, less sat fat). From Dr. Nigra I heard that lowering LDL results are not expected from such small weight losses, so this would contradict the assumption of Carvalho.
Yes, I was also annoyed that the vegan group ate so much LESS protein, and that both twins were not on the same fitness program (one is walking and one weight lifting, that is quite a difference). Chris Gardner often mentions in interviews that we don't need so much protein, and that people magically 'naturally' always eat enough protein. I really wonder why the protein recommendations for the vegans were so low. I wish the study would also show from all the 22 twins, the percentages of weight loss (fat vs. muscle mass). I felt so sorry for the South African twins, who were actually encouraged to lose weight, and when they did, they were told "they did it all wrong, eating low calories". And the said their metabolism slowed down, but doesn't that always happen when people lose fat/muscles? Because you need lesse calories to maintain the same.
I read from Dr Sherzai, who appears in the documentary, that the full research papers with all results will be published soon.
That's great, thanks for the info!! @@mayhu3282
Not surprised. All these omnivores act like addicts.
“What’s next? You gonna say we shouldn’t smoke meth? How am I suppose to become the next Walter White, bro?”
Meat eaters: A twin study is vegan propaganda!
Also meat eaters: An article says tomatoes "scream" when being squeezed. Totally true! Plants feel pain! 🤦♂️
I just tell the carnies I don't eat anything that had eyes and a momma.
People don't like to feel judged or uncomfortable in their own decisions so they get defensive and aggressive 😅
Great job Mic! I appreciate the extensive work you put into this vid.
I watched the show. It was OK, but I wish they had let the science speak for itself. As a 11 year vegan, I felt that it felt like vegan propaganda to me too. I was worried about a response that discredited the science. It was very heavy on the vegan message which made it seem preachy and therefore biased from those who were doing the study. They seemed to have an agenda. I am not surprised by the pushback response. Sometimes less is more.
That's a pity.
Damn Mic, you looking hot with that new haircut ;)
Yeah he doesn't look feminized like before, like so many men nowadays.
@@moniquebrachet5698 Yeah, nothing like the 60s..
@@moniquebrachet5698 I thought women were attracted to feminine men? what about Harry Styles in a dress?🤡
@@11235Aodh Not a fan of those androgynous men either..
It's crazy because everyone I know my age wants to limit or eliminate their intake of animal products. I don't know 1 person in their 20's who want to eat meat lmao but these people in the internet just hate vegans. Like where are these haters in real life? Arkansas in a town of 800 people?
The youth of today are the most propagandised people in history. You don't even know what a woman is.lmao.
I personally love the documentary. Although many of the participants where not thrilled to start the plant based diet, in the end recognized the benefits. So, not much new for vegans but good start for omnivores with concience.
What I hate about this movie is 4+ hours of advertisement for processed food like beyond meat and Mikiko cheese. Processed food is bad- period. It does not matter if it’s meat, daily or plant-based.
I've had family literally tell me that only poly-surated fat is deadly 😂
😭😭
Fat is bad only if you over-eat it. Our body needs fats
@@KateeAngel and what do you consider over doing it? Our body does not need animal fat.
@@mizz308true, our body needs important fatty-acids no matter where they come from. Whether it is animal, plant products or supplements.
@@KateeAngelAnimal fat has trans fats which we all know are some of the worst fats to eat. We don't need animal fat. Plants have all the fats we need.
It was a documentary on a study it wasn't meant to be the this is the whole study. The data came out separately, and the episodes are to show the people partaking
Your work is incredible & so important. I'm glad we have you, Mike!
Thanks!
I just go off of how I feel, if I live 2 months less than so be it, I’ll have to die with that. But I feel like crap eating salads, bloating, gas, feeling like I had to poop 4 times a day, forget it
Well, nobody said you should just be eating salads lol
Whatever it's flaws, the show is awakening huge interest all over the world, so that's already a wonderful effect.
Your bias is wrong, but my bias is totally okay!!!
11:13 also if it were truly unbiased, they would show not only the cow rotation and grazing but also the cow rounding up for slaughter and eventual slaughter and the following processing.
The negative reaction speaks to many things. In modern Western society people are conditioned to loathe all forms of criticism in the spirit of a toxic individualism. The framing is such that any advice given to improve your health or wellbeing has to either completely validate the lifestyle you are already living or it will be labelled at being purposely misleading and biased. This way of thinking makes it easier to addict people to spending more money on certain products and services, as they are not in the mindset to hear criticism for the way they are choosing to live their life.
There’s been so much coping since that study was released 😂😂
I think this series did a very good job at showing the environmental impacts of animal agriculture and it did an okay job at showing the health impacts of an omnivorous diet, but it did a piss poor job at making any of the food look enticing. Very few people would choose A or B over C, so seems like a wasted opportunity if it was supposed to be pro-vegan propaganda. Essentially, the editing for entertainment purposes sort of ruined the message IMO.
the "study" was flawed from the get-go.... should've compared vegans to Carnivores... ie: pure meat eaters.... comparing to omnivores mean nothing.
lol, yes because if a moderate amount of meat is unhealthy than even more must be healthy ! ! ! Great logic ! !
@@buckmurdock2500 very flawed thinking on your part.
there are 100 other variables that come into play by adding carbs and vegetables to a diet. These should be accounted for if you truly want to blame meat.
@@DanteLikesRock Your argument has no basis. Carnivores do not eat meat only all the time. They season and flavor their food, ironically seasonings come from plants. They accompany their food with other animal products, like dairy.
@@buckmurdock2500 for a fair comparison there should be no seasoning or other animal products in the diet, it should be meat only.
@@DanteLikesRock Yum! Good luck getting people to stay on that diet.
Meatflakes 🙄... keep up the good work Mic !
Nice vid!
Im chemical engineer with a large interest in the relationship between food an health. What I however do not understand is why majority of blogs like this dont focus on topics where there is a large consensus but have extreme standpoints without actually be a food scientist . For example ;generally it is adviceable to eat a high amount of fruits and vegetatables and limited amount of meat. But there is no consensus to go to 0 meat
It's assessing the data presented by a documentary. As a chemical engineer, you ought to have familiarized yourself with the primary subject matter befor offering a criticism of this video, but apparently did not. How odd.
because the 0 meat principle came from a cult... Look up how veganism started.
@@DanteLikesRock One can not eat meat and not be a vegan. The meat eaters hate that option because they can't assign a "V" label to attack.
But carnivore, no, that's not a cult, lmao . . .
Many doctors and scientists who follow the research and studies choose to go fully no animal products because, while there have been few long term studies yet published on full whole food veganism, all the studies that are available keep pointing to "the lower the animal food intake, and the more whole food the plant sources, the better the person's over-all health". It's taking actions based on the cumulative results trajectory, not on the limitation of the studies themselves.
You could say it's just "getting ahead of the game," per-se.
There is currently no recommendation of ANY of countries food and health administrations that go to zero meat is better. Referring to a limited single articles doesnt prove anything, especially if you are not an authority in the field. I do not have a problem with people chosing for vegan on limited evidence but please tell it like that… . Additionally vegan is not the holy grail if you ignore the quality and go to meat replacers, sauces, sirups etcet
I also wish they'd done a better job of explaining the benefits the healthy omnivores experienced. Even getting people to just eat healthier omnivore diets would go a long way toward helping with so many of the issues we have today.
Why? The vegan outcomes were so much better, and this was even with vegan junk food, this wasn't even WF vegan
Wouldnt help the climate issue.
Or the 1.2 trillion animals being slaughtered every year issue....
Those studies have already been done elsewhere, that's not the study this was looking at. As Dr. Greger always says, you have to ask, healthy compared to what? The point of this study was not to show that giving up junk food can make you more healthy, even if you're an omnivore, I think everyone knows that.
I think to solve this kind of backlash. Do a very similar study. Much more controlled. So food provided the entire time. Strict workout regiment that they had to attend. Matched protein intake. AND funded by both plant based and meat based groups. With meat based influencers and plant based influencers/doctors/nutritionists a part of the documentary with input into the the type of workouts and food given. THEN compare results. I bet they wouldn’t want to do that though. Cuz as a vegan I’m sure we’d still see a lot of great improvements for vegans vs omnivores. I’m not sure if they’re that confident
omnivores shouldn't be compared.... that means nothing really, it's carnivores that should.
@@DanteLikesRock If that's the case then don't use vegan diet for the non meat eaters. Use a plant based diet. Comparing vegan to plant based is as off base as comparing ominvores and carnivores.
@@buckmurdock2500 vegan means excluding meat, plant-based means a high percentage of plants but not excluding meat.
therefore my comment still stands.
I actually loved the pro plant information that was represented on the doc it was interesting.
I've been a wfpb vegan for 20 years and thriving. The fact that we need a documentary to tell people the fruits and veggies are healthy is hilarious.
True but we literally do. I've been listening to sume carnivore youtube videos where they say vegetables are junk food...
@user-ql2it4ge4s you're right! I saw a post about vegetables being junk food the other day. It's wild 😅
You are what you eat.
Eat fat to be fat.
Um, first, you realize there is a ton of fat in vegan foods like nuts, avocados, and oils, right? Second, that’s not how fat gain/loss works anyway; it’s about energy balance.
that's only if you eat over your calorie budget. fat has more calories so it's easier to eat too many calories. but if the calories are kept to a minimum, then fat can't make you fat.
yeah no.....that is not how it works. Your body can burn fat, because it is designed to exactly that.
Our body needs fats. Just don't over-eat. And if you over-eat, it doesn't matter whether you eat fats or carbohydrates, the body will turn all into fat and store it
what a reductive opinion.
vegans.🤡🤡
TO get an accurate study, one twin would have to be raised vegan and one raised omnivore.
Welcome to reality.
Can you please do a video on vegan diet and scar tissue formation. I came across some studies saying vegans have worse wound healing and more scar tissue. I've been vegan for almost 5 years and I've notices getting a scar from even the tiniest cuts lately. Is there a specific reason this is happening? Eg a deficiency that we can supplement to prevent this or perhaps a confounder? I hope you find it interesting and address this 😊
That's likely a deficiency or a reflection of fitness level, not necessarily the vegan diet. It could also be age, as we get older often our bodies don't heal as resiliently as it did when we were kids.
You could look into supplements for better scar healing (or look into what vitamins/minerals are associated with that, then see what foods you could include/increase in your diet to account for those.)
Working out and developing more muscle tone also helps with healing. Increased muscle increases blood flow to those areas of the body, which helps with healing.
Went vegan 4 months ago. My LDL went from 107 to 92. No increase in exercise
What do you eat?
ofcourse LDL would go down.... too bad low LDL isn't a measure of good health.🤦🏻♂🤣
@jonahwhale9047 wrong.
@jonahwhale9047 if you knew anything about cholesterol and it's functions in the body, you would know that studies show a "u-curve', meaning that lower levels lead to worse outcomes.
gym bros? what? ...I think you're talking to the wrong guy.