Wouldn't surprise me. I do the same thing but on a smaller scale. I plant shitty bit rhetorically "convincing" arguments that I know carnists love to use- but in reality offer a great handle to expose the immorality of eating meat. It rots carnist sides from the inside out.
It is VERY telling, how emotionally intense people get at the mere idea of somebody not killing animals. The only explanation is that they subconsciously know it’s immoral, and feel bad, like a child that’s been caught stealing, but instead of facing their failure, they hide it away, and the same old defensive -> offensive pipeline takes effect: “How DARE you accuse me of being immoral! I HATE vegans!” This is why I don’t debate anymore, people are too emotional, and it’s very draining wading through their old baggage. Ears of understanding, etc.
It's because we put our finger right in the middle of their moral wound. They then try to corrupt our intentions and make us immoral or amoral. They try to complicate what's simple. The truth is, most would never dare to go to a field and bite into a cow's hide for dinner. They absolutely need their servants and a system to provide their prey in a cellophane and styrofoam 500g package. So they don't want the servants to awake to the abuse.
I was talking to a friend earlier today. She was very interested on what kind of things I eat in a plant based diet. We hadn't seen each other in a long time and in that time interval I started eating plant based and I've changed a lot physically for the best. When she asked for my reasons and I mentioned animal suffering, she lowered her eyes and said: "I'm not bothered about that. I know it happens, but that's just not my problem". The conversation ended there. This from one of the most intelligent people I know. It's clear that what she said cannot be entirely true. An intelligent person has probably thought about this. And decided not to think about it anymore. Because thinking about this leads to only one result. Going vegan.
There were people in this room who applauded for Katie Hopkins? And they call themselves intellectuals? 😅 That was the worst argumentation I've ever heard from a non vegan.
I know it’s scary how many seemingly well rounded mildly intelligent people can over look so many facts and logic but that is the insanity of addiction which I believe we all were at some point addicted to meat addicted to dairy addicted to cruelty.
@@tarotqueen9118I'm not even sure it's an addiction. It's just so well ingrained into cultural beliefs that we need to eat nutrients coming from animals or we might become really sick. Then there's half a billion vegetarian Indians that never ate meat but eat dairy and eggs. The cultural norms seem to dictate beliefs. Really takes an ah ha moment for those brought up on animal products to start venturing into plant based.
The power of bias in full the display - the opposite of intellectual honesty or scientific rigour. This is a corrupt politician’s discourse, not that of a serious debater.
I experience secondhand embarrassment from Katie Hopkins. It's worth noting that she complained about people naming their children after geographical locations, despite naming her own child India.
She's comedic in many ways. She's changed her mind before and extended apologies despite previously appearing to have an unwavering conviction on the contrary (I think it was to do about her opinion on another celeb or something) . Anyway, we never know, she might change her mind about veganism. Piers Morgan behaves in a similar way, despite claiming to be against animal abuse. He fails to equate veganism with that exact sentiment, clear dissonance in cognition. People who are blinkered by the status quo and tradition, who are firml set in their ways tend to pick on what they don't understand.
21:18 Linda McCartney was a Vegetarian. She didn’t die “with or from being a Vegan”. She died of breast cancer. Katie Hopkins is embarrassing to watch.
Yes, if you delve into the epidemiology, there are loads of quite unhealthy vegans and vegetarians out there - even though they are still healthier than their meat eater counterparts. My educated hunch says, the big difference is not just exercise, but exercise intensity, in terms of mental exercise primarily and physical exercise secondarily. Missing one or the other, and it drops you into that vulnerable state leading to death.
I was a vegan for 4 years nearly killed my self and had cancer. Now Iv been a carnivore for 2 years and I’m cancer free pain free lost 35 pounds gain 10 pounds of muscle with no workout I feel like I’m 18 again. A Raw Vegan life may be better the a typical American diet but in the end it will harm you . Telling people to give up meat you might as well be sentencing them to a log of suffering and pain . Don’t let social views or people options be your undoing . Look up the facts, watch KenDBerry MD on TH-cam and many other who will give you the facts . I’m only one example out of hundreds of Thousands of others.
Vegetarians are incredibly unhealthy compared to Vegans, they have more in common healthwise with carnists than vegans, they're still consuming extremely unhealthy 'foods' and many of them seem to think fish are vegetables. Saying 'vegetarians AND Vegans' is the only way to find something to use against Veganism.
@@annihilationHavenit's not just that. Linda McCartney was a vegetarian and there is a link between cow's milk and breast cancer. It's a pity she hadn't been vegan.
Loook you guys can be vegan all you want even eat metal and timber for all i care what i would not allow you to do is tell me what i can and cant eat nased on your preferences.
Excellent assessment. Surely you’d need to be drunk to get up and beclown yourself like that? It’s hard to believe people are stupid enough to think anything she said has merit, and yet there was clapping 🤣🤣
It is funny listening to Katie Hopkins. Little does she realize that she is the best argument for going vegan. Eat meat, and you may be like Katie Hopkins. No thanks.
@@katdc7605that's funny I have seen alot of angry and argumentative and Psycho vegans so what's your point? I don't think it's because what they eat it's the person lol. Also my grandfather was a big meat eater and was the nicest person you could meet just an example to give you
I honestly very rarely truly think that unsavory, dishonest and brain dead actors representing a side necessarily make it look bad enough to create a very clear net loss -- they often have some appeal to them, even if it's just pure sophistry and mastery at manipulating the ignorance of others and, even if they don't convince new people, ultimately serve to maintain numbers, but in Katie Hopkins case... I really see nothing. She has no proper arguments, doesn't speak well, carries herself like a lunatic... At least people like Alex Jones manage to capitalize on people that are dumber than him, but I doubt this lady can even do that. If I was on the side of the animal abusers, I would've campaigned to not have her as a representative and would be deeply ashamed to have such a person on my side. She is the type of person that you clear out of the movement not just to preserve it's image and not give ammunition to the opposition, but also the refine the discussion (unless the goal is to muddy it all...).
Association fallacy, but yes. Go vegan 😉 not because of Katie Hopkins but because it's the right thing to do for animals, the planet, society, and one's health
To be fair, nobody on the opposition deserves to be on Oxford, as there is no valid nor true point in their speeches. Complete nonsense, BS, or green/humanewashing.
The vegans come with logic, stats, compassion and wit too (Disha 😂), while the anti-vegans are hysterical and full of excuses. Joey's speech hit hard. 👏
Go to Galicia Spain and see how cattle were raised for hundreds of years - and how green the grass is. They are enriching the environment and the best meat is the Rubia Gallega steak, prized for its yellow fat and marbling. It’s an old cow who is retired for her last year of life to fatten up. What better life for a cow? What’s the alternative? The main alternative is the cow goes extinct and there’s a lessening of biodiversity from the cows great contribution to the local environment. And maybe read Wendell Barry - poet and farmer, on rotational grazing, biomimickry and working with the land. Or Joel Salatin who puts that to practice with his Polyface farm. Those farms enrich the environment and feed people sustainably. The land has HIGHER yield than a monoculture farm and higher yield in both calories and nutrients than a factory farm. Of course, there’s very bad nasty meat being produced and nasty methods of growing vegetables. As for human diet and consumption, we’re omnivores and there’s no one-size fits all. A common mistake in thought and argument, however, is to assume that there’s only one (crappy) way of farming for meat, or fishing or preparing food (as delicious and healthy as a sardine is, it’s not so healthy if deep fried or canned in canola oil). Perhaps approach the topic with more subtle and nuance rather than cheerleading one side and demonizing another.
Facts. A dead cow doesn't produce methane. A dead cow doesn't drink water. Ruminate meat is the most macro and micro nutrient dense food on the planet. There are roughly 2.9 million head of cattle on the planet minus the roughly 300,000 head that are butchered for nutrition. Adding 300,000 head of cattle to the 2.9M will increase methane not reduce it. It will also increase the water consumption of the cattle of the planet. It is a fallacy factually that not killing cattle for nutrition will had to stresses climate "alarmists" complain about.
Vegans kill plants that all they want to do is live. Plants have toxins to defend off predators especially in the seeds (their offspring) that in nature would be deposited in the soil to produce more plants trough bird droppings through pollination and through seeds deposited by trees while vegans flush the seeds down the toilet and those toxins in those seeds biological iritations with in humans.
@@RC-qf3mpthere isn't enough room to farm all cattle like in your example. Much native forest has been felled to graze cattle at the expense of native wildlife's habitats 😡
It’s actually hilarious that these people think that as soon as someone becomes vegan, they immediately start buying bucket loads of quinoa and avocados😂 for some reason they think we don’t eat rice, beans, spaghetti, fruits and vegetables like everyone else. Being vegan is just eating the same things, but removing the meat, milk and eggs. It’s really not hard, nor expensive. It’s actually so mind numbing when people come out with these ridiculous statements, when in actual fact they don’t have a clue and are just speculating.
And don't forget almonds 😂. Personally I barely ever eat quinoa, but I do love it. And avocados whilst I find delish too it barely finds it's way into my daily diet. There's just so many options of food that I never get bored.
I think they must be shit cooks if that's the extent of their culinary imaginations. I've just eaten quinoa for the first time in about a year and rarely eat avocado.
For real. I can count on one hand the amount of times I've had quinoa in my life. Also, eating locusts is not vegan. 🦗That last lady is so far off her rocker.
joey is going strong and his words are getting more effective each year that passes. bringing us closer to the inevitable vegan future. for morality is not subjective. but a truth that is unraveled by each generation of our modern intellectual society. Go vegan! Go Joey!
A quick Google search says otherwise: is veganism on the decline In 2019, a quarter of food products launched were labelled as vegan. Fast-forward to today and the appetite for veganism is waning, with 14% of European consumers switching to a self-described 'flexitarian' diet instead. Nov 9, 2023 Is vegan losing popularity? In Q1 of 2022, the global score for veganism popularity dipped below 60. The trend was similar in the United States, with a peak score of more than 80 in 2019 and a gradual decline to about 60 in Q1 of 2022.May 29, 2023 I think everyone is sick and tired of vegan's trying to scare everyone into believing eating meat is bad/unhealthy for you. In the early 1900's the cancer rate was around 5% vs 33-50% today and in the early 1900's cardiovascular disease was uncommon vs 1 in 4 deaths today, yet everyone ate meat back then. There's way too many factors that go into people's health and wellbeing (on average people that eat meat also smoke, don't exercise, and generally eat other unhealthy types of food i.e. fast food, fried food, processed sugars and carbohydrates vs vegans) to just blame meat for everyone's health issues.
As a person on the carnivore diet I would eat a human if I could get away with it and not go to prison. I think it would be fun to try human flesh in many different ways on a sample platter for instance. Cook and prepare different cuts, with different seasonings, fry some, grill some, sautee some, add some to a stir fry, make chorizo out of some and put it on a tortilla, etc. I think it should be legal for people who commit suicide or are terminally ill to write a note prior to death that allows them to be eaten and that cannibalism should be legal as long as those rules are followed. Consent should be mandatory and if some teenager wants to kill himself due to depression he should be allowed to give his flesh and organs to skilled cooks for use in dishes. Another thing is that human meat shouldn't be overpriced and should only cost maybe 25% more than grass fed beef and there should be laws preventing price gouging so everyone can try it if they want and not just the rich. I eat a lot of pork and many cannibals claim that human flesh tastes like pork but I have always wondered if that is true. I will sadly likely never know though but some day I may cut one of my pinkie fingers off when I'm retired and cook it in some lard and serve on a biscuit with some chives or something after de-boning it and test it because at that age I won't need it as much and then I'll finally know what human flesh tastes like. Trying human flesh is on my bucket list honestly.
Animals die anyway, it’s part of the cycle of life. All animals get eaten after they die - by scavengers, worms, etc. People are omnivores and predators, with eyes in front of our heads and fangs. To deny your own humanity is nihilism and self-hate. That said, there are biologically and ecologically and ethically better and worse ways to consumer animals. And that’s worth assessing. But it’s denial and anti-science religious zealotry to suggest that we should all be vegans, or that being vegan is somehow a natural healthy diet.
Loook you guys can be vegan all you want even eat metal and timber for all i care what i would not allow you to do is tell me what i can and cant eat nased on your preferences.
@@cherylween4973 because I choose to eat steak 🤣🤣🤣 like the rest of the human have been doing since the beginning 🤣🤣🤣, i thought sick was applied to people who went out of the norm i.e not eating meat and trying to force everyone else not to too 🤣💔
When i listen to Katie Hopkins, i, as a Swedish citizen, wonder how it can be accepted to straight out lie in the whole speech. In Sweden, it would be the last time she spoke in public.
Beautiful Sweden, birthplace of my guru, Emanuel Swedenborg! He was even told to change what he ate in order to have his spiritual awakening. He was already a polymath and a polyglot, a brilliant scientist in the 1700s. The inevitable result of clean eating is a softening of your heart.
I don't agree with Katie Hopkins but I'll fight for her to be able to speak. The censoring of individuals is frightening. Her arguments were flawed, she made her self look and sound a fool. And that is why freedom of speech is so important. You don't need to censor. These idiots destroy their own arguments.
After 4 years of being vegan, I don't think I've eaten quinoa... Also, Katie Hopkins is a lunatic, the fact that she is speaking at a university is nothing short of shameful.
@@apemoon1731 There is a substantial difference btween "differing points of view" and the blatant anti-intellectualism and lies that Katie Hopkins spews.
What a huge difference between the calm, educated, well-informed proposition (vegans) and the obnoxious, condescending, shouting opposition (non-vegans).
I really don't understand why their is even an argument against animal cruelty 🤷♀️ i thought humans hated animal cruelty ? Clearly most people think animals suffering is ok ☹
Loook you guys can be vegan all you want even eat metal and timber for all i care what i would not allow you to do is tell me what i can and cant eat nased on your preferences.
@@rugbystories3344 Where is the animals' say in all this? If anyone is forcing their lifestyles on others it's meat eaters. You never consider what your choices do to the trillions of animals that are exploited every year. People like you are either way too naive and selfish to accept the truth, or you are criminally miseducated. But I know, everything I say is going to fly past your cholesterol-packed head and you're gonna regurgitate the same stupid arguments as every other meat eater.
@@caesarsalad5437 human meat i think you will get arrested 🤣🤦, and still in my worldview and those who pointed out the concept of human rights there is a difference between animals and people
@@rugbystories3344 As if the legality of something dictates its moral importance (Slavery was legal for the longest time). It is true that animals and humans are obviously different but not in a way that permits us to slaughter them for nothing more than taste pleasure. I just hope you consider your position at least one more time sometime :)
The argument that if everyone became vegan overnight than the poor animals would all die is one of the least self-aware and hypocritical arguments out there!
Obviously Hopkins is a deliberate clown, but I'm surprised by the arguments put forward by the other speakers. A simple Google search on arguments for veganism would surely reveal the self-evident fact that most plants are grown for animals, the world demand for beef would render a global conversion to field-grazing cows requiring an additional area of farmland equivalent to the Amazon rainforest, and indeed a global conversion to veganism, similar to all the global conversions to fucking anything ever, would not be imposed in a Thanos-snap.
Yeah, I'm baffled by the fact that they have the audacity to come up to the mic with such an immensely poor understanding of anything philosophy, ethics, or critical thinking related all together and then spout out their incredibly flawed arguments with such confidence. It's appalling. Well anyways, the meat eaters sure made a good case for veganism.
It's strange that during a vegan debate, so many arguments to do with climate change and health are brought up. People really should understand the definition of veganism before talking about it.
Sorry, but those things matter greatly too. I am vegan primarily for my health, but knowing that I am also contributing less to animal suffering and environmental damage helps me stay on track. All 3 objectives are important..
Actually that's probably a good age to start, as the body is declining it doesn't require the same amount of amino acids nor does it need as much natural fats and minerals. All of this processing requires energy and the organs to work harder, that is basically going to waste.
All I hear when people argue in support of continuing needless animal exploitation, imprisonment, abuse, rape, torture, killing and slaughter is: "ME, ME, ME!!!!" The corpse crunchers sound selfish and self centered and are spouting complete BS.
@@dystopiaeatsmoney Fun Fact: There are 7 "essential" nutrients that you can't find in ANY plant based products and can ONLY be found in animal based products! Funny how you haven't seen the stories of vegans eventually having to abandon their vegan diet due to vitamin deficiencies which will ultimately lead to serious side effects and chronic illness so yes, I am saying you can't be at optimal health on plant based only. You may improve your health in the first year or two when one comes off of high carbs and goes to plant based only, your body will become healthier than when you were on high carbs and heavy omega 6 junk carbs but eventually you will slowly depreciate your vitamin levels because first off like stated earlier, there are 7 essential nutrients you can't get in plant based in addition controlled studies have proven that the human digestive system absorbs the vitamins and protein at a MUCH higher rate with animal based versus plant based. Mens testosterone levels will drop exponentially on a plant based diet as well. So no, you will NEVER achieve optimal health on plant based only. Vegetarians can get away with their diet more because they incorporate eggs into their diet and eggs are an animal product and loaded with nutrients and the fat in the yolk help tremendously with vitamin absorption. If a vegan were to incorporate eggs into their diet, they would stand a much higher chance of better health.
Dr Rao was completely on point. We must reduce the amount of land used for agriculture and rewild. This is why I am doing exactly that in wales. I am surrounded by sheep farming. It’s dreadful. I did a video of planting 1000 trees the other day actually. Well done to everyone at Oxford union for voting in favour of going vegan. It’s another success story ❤
I love animals and I don't want to be part of a system that abuses and kills them. As a vegan my food is delicious and I've never been healthier. There is no downside!
I love animals, and i also consume meat every now and then. Also, if you look at the system of wild animals, there is none, so a lion wouldn't consider not eating you. Also, i highly doubt the health benefits. Also, you are 25 % responsible for the kiling of the rainsforest, while all vegans represent about 1,1 % of the world population. That would mean if everyone became vegan you would destroy the earth since per vegan you actually do way more harm to the environment. The environment that animals need to survive.
@AgentLemmon 1/ You don't love animals. 2/ There are no lions where I live so its not an issue. 3/ Read some scientific articles about the health benefits of a vegan diet. There are plenty. 4/ The rainforest is being destroyed to plant crops TO FEED ANIMALS for the meat trade.
Hello, @@AgentLemmon, You're right. It is true that the rainforest is destroyed through soy production yet 75-85% of soy is fed to farmed animals (the soy is often shipped overseas, to Europe. Tbh i have no idea where you're from) The soy used in soy milk like Alpro is grown in Europe sustainably. The majority of crops in general are fed to farmed animals (70-90% depending on the crop) And a lot of rainforest is destroyed for pastures, for grass fed beef, you know.
@@AgentLemmon up to 80% of rainforest destruction is because of cattle. Supposedly other 20% is for soy (it's probably less because there aren't only 2 reasons for deforestation) 25% of that 20% is for human consumption (mind you that there are vegans that never touch soy, and the majority of soy consumption isn't due to vegans: tofu, tempeh, soy sauce and other food are important elements of cuisine that also consume meat) So 5% of Rainforest destruction is for soy grown for humans (all humans not just vegans)
There are vegans that behave similarly. You're better off arguing for decreased meat consumption than veganism. How many people go from a standard American diet to veganism overnight? Would you say a carnivore is more immoral than a person who has a 99% vegetarian diet? Would you say a carnivore contributes to climate change more than the 99% vegetarian? Extremism does nothing to help one's argument. All the moderate people laugh at both sides.
@@limitisillusion7 We’re better advocating something that is morally consistent. This is the very strength of the vegan position. Meat reduction isn’t consistent with that, because it’s like admitting that it’s fine to torture and kill animals, just less of them. To address your questions: 1. Does it matter what people would do overnight? Our focus is a strong resolve for the end goal and a shift in mentalities, especially given that they are constantly served lies from the meat industry propaganda. It takes time for people to realize the atrocities in which they partake; no vegan expect overnight changes. You need people to push in the extreme, and that creates a gradient of people in between. What matters is the direction, really. Why compromise when it’s clear that animal exploitation is a moral issue that humans must address? 2. Carnivores and vegetarian are both immoral in their consumption of animal products. It serves no purpose to attempt to quantify their guilt. 3. Extremism isn’t inherently bad. In fact, it’s the very thing that keeps veganism consistent and relevant, especially given that what truly is extreme is our treatment of animals and the environment.
@@discursion Moral consistency is a lofty goal, perhaps an unreachable one. Do you drive on roads? Do you pay taxes that fund wars? Do you have a significant savings account? Do you buy material goods? All of these things negatively impact the lives of animals and humans. Roads cut through habitats. Cars kill animals and pollute the environment. Militaries harm animals and humans alike with impunity. Excess money in a savings account could be spent to save animals in shelters or starving humans globally. Money spent on material goods could be spent on savings animal life too. What's more important? A new pair of shoes or feeding another human/animal for a month? How do you objectively weigh the benefits of a new pair of shoes against the opportunity cost of the starving animal or human? How do you objectively weigh your ride to work and the indirect habitat damage vs the extra time it would take you to walk? Don't forget, the roads and cars kill animals too. Bottom line, if you take part in any of these behaviors/actions, you're not being morally consistent as a vegan. What you've actually done is place the harm caused by the direct consumption of animal products above the indirect harm caused by all of your other behaviors. That's not consistent at all, it's just hypocrisy. The harm you certainly cause by some or all of the above behaviors are just not as direct as feeding on animals, therefore, you brush them off or are simply unconscious of them altogether. So when you say there's no point in quantifying guilt, you've effectively stated that you're as guilty as non-vegans via the above behaviors/actions that I pointed out. If guilt is an on/off switch, then everyone's guilty. But when you do attach a magnitude to the guilt, you add all of the very real nuance that actually exists. It's not about being perfect, it's about being better than you were the day before. No one's carbon footprint will be gone until they're dead. Does that mean mean should all take our own lives just to be morally consistent? Regarding your strategy of "pushing the extreme," that's fine. You are welcome to practice a 100% vegan diet, however, I implore you to pay attention to the results of overbearing criticism of your ideological opposition (in this example, your opposition would be consumers of animal products). The carnivore movement has grown in lockstep with the intolerant vegan movement. Carnivores weren't a social phenomenon until vegans started blocking roadways and entrances to butcher shops. I recommend avoiding the intrusive approaches and leaving the moral superiority complex behind. Instead, adopt a humble approach that seeks to educate. Ad hominems and condescending language are of no use either. I eat chicken maybe once a month and I consume milk, yogurt and cheese fairly regularly. I'm probably ~98% vegetarian. I'm also fairly educated on nutrition, certainly more than the average person. But even for me, a vegan diet is unsustainable, because I don't have access to the healthcare I would need to ensure my bloodwork was in check. Supplementation can get very complicated when you're compensating for shortcomings in your diet without access to medical oversight. I recommend you focus more of your effort on _systematic issues,_ like supporting universal healthcare and permaculture farming, rather than focusing on boasting about your moral superiority to individuals who are _symtoms_ of the systematic issues. Blaming people only creates more division, whether it be vegan vs carnivore, Democrat vs Republican, men vs women etc. Vote and campaign for candidates that support your ideology. Open up a vegan restaurant. Grow a garden. Lead by example. If you sit atop your moral high ground pointing fingers without seeing your own hypocrisy, people will ignore you, laugh at you, or even act in such a way to spite you. None of these are conducive to reaching _your_ goals. If you ride a bike enough in the rain, people will start to ask themselves why you are opting to get wet instead of driving. Actions speak louder than words.
@@limitisillusion7Alright, I'll attempt to respond to every point of your newly published book. 1. (A) Moral consistency is a direction you aim at, not necessarily one you attain. We're only asking that people be consistent when they claim to "love animals" and yet directly pay for their torture and abuse. (B) I very occasionally do drive, I do pay taxes, I have a savings account and I buy material goods. These are separate topic and can be discussed separately. Otherwise, it's plain old whataboutism or false dilemma. Vegans are concerned with a specific topic. To blame them for not caring about other topics to absolve yourself from debating the topic of concern is just a poor escape. 2. (A) They do have negative impacts. But their impact is at a much more indirect level, and unlike the direct funding of the murder of animals, it can hardly be controlled by any one person. You buy meat, an animal has to be killed. You buy dairy, an animal has to be abused (and eventually killed too). Eggs directly causes macerated chicks and overly exploited chicken bodies (in 99.99% of cases). The same direct correlation does not exist with any of your examples. (B) There are many ways we can all do better, especially with how we spend money. That being said, I personally try to avoid luxuries, but again, that's beyond the point of veganism. The goal is not to be perfect, but to make efficient practical and ethical choices that can have lasting effect towards a desired goal. When it comes to animal welfare (and other considerations, such as greenhouse gas emissions, land use, pollution and deforestation, and human health), ceasing the consumption of animal products is the easiest, most direct and impactful decision one can make. 3. (A) If you think I am being inconsistent, it's because you wrongly equate consistency with perfection. Consistent means that I agree that I can do better in more ways to help further the cause I value. It would be inconsistent for me to claim that cars aren't detrimental to animals. It is somewhat inconsistent for me to drive one, and I am the first person to admit that. It is, unfortunately, still a necessity that I must sometimes depend on but would gladly set aside given an alternative. Meat is not. Dairy is not. (B) Direct harm is above indirect harm only insofar as it is harm that we can act upon and measure. I have little control on the way my taxes are being used to subsidize the meat and dairy industry. If I did, I certainly wouldn't give them to that end. If a poltiical party proposes a reform, I'll be the first to support it. What's within my immediate control, however, is what I choose to purchase (especially when I don't have to). 4. (A) No, when I said there's not point in quantifying it, I meant that the dairy industry is just as horrible as the meat industry (if not worse) in its treatment of animals. But sure, if as a vegetarian you ended up consuming less animal products than if you had been a full-fledged meat eater, then we can postulate that this is overall better. (B) What I'm saying here is that given that you have the choice to avoid those products altogether and thus the immediate suffering they cause, then "better" still isn't "right" or "moral". It is still purposefully inflicting that same fate to an innocent sentient being with a direct causal relationship. 5. (A) I'm sure some vegans are more practical about it than I am. I couldn't care less what some fragile egos think of the movement, I'm really into this for my own conscience than any kind of social validation. (B) When it comes to debating the issues we raise, I have seen very few sensible and worthwhile arguments in favor of animal agriculture and to me that's all that matters. (C) Portraying an entire movement based on its most extreme elements is just dishonest. (D) I understand that intrusive acts like roadblocks can be shocking, but what I fail to understand is why our treatment of animals should be seen as any less shocking. That is why activists feel entitled to persist in these disruption, and rightly so. (E) I'm not sure why you're attributing to me the doings of other people. As far as I know, ad hominems are always prevalents on both sides of any contentious issue. As for condescending language... I only dare say that it is sadly often justified, though definitely not a persuasive tactic. (F) We need a diversity of approach to convince a plural world. To me, that's all a big cope out to avoid facing the issues raised by activists. 6. (A) If you were as educated on diet as you claim you are, you would certainly say otherwise. (B) You are essentially facing all the same issues on your flexitarian diet if you can't afford to have your blood checked. (C) Animal agriculture, like petroleum dependence, *is* a deeply rooted systemic issue that is one of the main drivers of the sixth mass extinction of biodiversity on earth. 7. (A) You say blame. We say inform. We say raise awareness, debate, discuss. And what of blame? It's not like it's misguided. We place blame where blame is due, that's all. (B) All the things you mention assume that all I'm doing is online activism, which is false. (C) Thanks for the tip, I hope you apply it to yourself as well.
@@discursion When you claim moral consistency, you open all of your behaviors up to criticism and the indirect harm they may cause. That is what is implied by consistency. That is not a whataboutism, is it simply an extension of logic. Compartmentalizing the harm your diet causes from the harm your other actions cause is not logically consistent. It doesn't matter whether that harm is direct or indirect. The only difference between direct and indirect effects is time. I never said you use the ad hominems or condescending language, but you did claim that vegan dietary patterns alone insinuate a moral high ground, which I argued is not logically consistent. There is a fine line between blaming and informing and it takes a lot of care to not cross it accidentally. I'm not necessarily against a shift to plant dominant diets for those who can do so. I believe it's one strategy of many that can be used to solve the existential problems we face as a species. Again, there are many strategies to do so, and the vegan movement can play an important role. The reason I give my two cents on a common veganism strategy is because I see vegans as helpful allies, but only if they aren't creating more radicalism in the process. I strongly believe that anytime you claim moral superiority you are driving potential "converts" away. Bringing your ego into the strategy doesn't seem to be leading to a net gain of vegans or environmental activists. This is where the line between informing and blaming becomes so important to recognize. I hope you recognize that I don't seek to blame you for exhibiting these strategies even if you do, nor do I blame the radixal vegans who do use the ad hominems and such. I just seek to make my argument, offer recommendations, and leave it at that. Best case scenario, you know a few of the "screeching vegan outside the butcher shop" types who you can persuade to adopt a different strategy. You certainly don't seem to be the radical vegan, nor are most vegans radical. However, you are the most likely person to persuade the radical vegans. Biodiversity is an important thing, but to blame it on agriculture or petroleum dependence is not exactly correct. When we pull carbon out of the ground via petroleum and redistribute it above ground, that extra carbon creates the potential for more carbon based biodiversity than ever before. The decreasing biodiversity is not due to the animal agriculture or petroleum, but more so due to the particular dominant methods we are currently using for agriculture. Monocropping, over-tilling, lack of crop rotation, and pesticide/herbicide use is the actual problem. All of this destroys the soil food web of life that is otherwise responsible for absorbing the carbon in the atmosphere. If humans face a mass extinction, the biodiversity will come back stronger than ever before in a very short time frame. That, or we could change the way we do agriculture. Instead of green lawns and rural monocrop farms far away from population centers, we plant the largest diversity of organic food as close to the population centers as possible. Then the transportation of food across the world greatly diminishes along with the petroleum use. The result is a return to or even reaching new heights of biodiversity. Cattle can actually play an important role in the process of crop rotation, not to mention the health of cattle prospers when they are eating a larger variety of plant species, as opposed to the cheapest grain that we can grow. And that leaves the consumption of naturally produced milk and naturally deceased cattle as a viable and ethical option. There is no better time to plant a garden, and I say that as someone who doesn't have a garden now. But I will very soon.
Vegan is the abselute only Way for humanity , and the ONLY Way for a better world in all areas !. Please please find your common sense and compassion for other Living innocent beings 🙏🙏🙏❤️❤️❤️
Ohhh what a horrible person is this Katie Hopkins....!!!! So happy to live a 1000 procent vegan..also my daughter who is 16 and vegan for 16 years...yeahhh 🥰 Her father is a vegan also! (Strong, healthy and goodlooking☺ ) Long live justice for all animals 🐳 greetings from Germany and Holland
Thank you, Dr. Sailesh Rao.....Joey Carbstrong and others... hard to listen to the heartlessness of those justifying the cruelty of meat eating, for their momentary taste sensation; or because its too much 'work' for them to cook plant-based.
The argument of veganism for ethical reasons is absurd. Have you ever plowed a field before? When you till a field to plant your corn, wheat, avocados, almonds, whatever.. you kill.. everything. If you think that all life is sacred, what about the lives of the ground nesting birds, squirrels, rodents, grasshoppers, insects, and so on? In California the average avocado farm kills 19,000 ground squirrels per year. And that's not counting the billions of bees. They bring them up from Brazil to pollenate the trees and then they die. Then they spray the trees with some organic pesticide and kill ALL the bugs. If you look ANYWHERE in the ecosystem, everything is living at the expense of another organism. I think your perspective on life is incredibly privileged and naive. I encourage you to plant your own garden this spring and see how it goes. Seriously. See how the life around your garden affects your crops and what they do. Then you can step back and realize how your one or two tomato plants are less than a drop in the ocean in comparison to the size and vastness of big agriculture and what measures are taken to farm crops for millions of people.
Most people eat meat because they know it's an essential part of a proper human diet. Yes, the corporate food industry has terrible practices when it comes to meat, but you can also say the same thing for the rest of corporate food.
@@richardcardinale7152 we are all being lied to. The true evil is processed food. Humans have been eating meat our entire history. It isn't going anywhere.
Not eaten meat for 40 years 😂 still alive and kicking. 6 years vegan now 😊 I’m 67 never broken a bone in my life 🌱 vegan is the way to go . Katy you should be ashamed 😡
@@Red3f1ned yeah if you swap a soul from going to a human with one going to a food animal and they both grow old enough then the non human host will have defiantly done nothing wrong during their existence so purely innocent by default. i suppose its good that we question religion aye.
I've been meat free over 6 years and vegan over 4. I'm 6ft 3 and have 2 children. So Katie Hopkins blabbing about testosterone, is ridiculous. She just rants and raves, but doesn't actually say anything.
My sister is allergies to berries and certain type of plants. She also allergic to nuts and have a skin condition. Once she went carnivore her skin condition went away. Everybody body is different I don’t understand why everybody is so against eating meat. This cult honestly needs to stop
Her performance may have made her the greatest vegan advocate by proxy, from focusing a spotlight and new interests for much-needed vegan education. lol
@@tpowell3776 Funny, after just 4+ years of being vegan I don't crave meat at all. I get disgusted just thinking about it now. Makes you wonder if maybe we just crave what we're conditioned to eat.
@@NostalgiCrazy If you are able to truly eat ONLY whole plant foods with ZERO impossible burgers, veganaise, fake chicken nuggets, and vegan comfort food at vegan restaurants with the food cooked in all those seed and vegetable oils thats flooded in their mac and cheese and other fake processed foods than Good on you, but thats not what Ive witnessed with my vegan friends, they are eating junk, and hungry all the time.
Katie Hopkins has spoken in the past about her epilepsy. There's a pork tapeworm that causes an enormous number of epilepsy cases worldwide. I wonder if she even knows this.
Interesting how every single argument from the opposition was either based in personal feelings, false or misrepresented statistics, logical fallacies and/or lies. I'll try to lay out the errors here: 1. "Habitats are destroyed because of the rising demand for grains" > to feed animals 2. Quinoa has tripled in price so locals can't buy it > non-vegans eat a lot more quinoa overall and it's not an essential food item for vegans 3. "Soya is now one of the leading causes of deforestation in South America" > to feed animals, including animals in the EU and UK through imports 4. Methane has a short lifespan > It's estimated to have a halftime of about 12 years which means that it takes about 80 years to decay to 1% of the released amount at which point it turns into CO2. This is a huge problem since methane is over 100x more powerful of a greenhouse gas than CO2. Accounting for the halftime the global warming potential over 100 years is still 28 times greater than the same amount of CO2 released. Saying researchers aren't taking this into account in calculations is a lie. Add to this that the atmospheric concentration of methane has been growing for centuries, accelerated in recent decades and that animal agriculture is a leading cause. If anything this should be a huge motivator to end animal farming as soon as possible to rapidly decrease the concentration. 5. Welsh pasture-based beef and sheep farming is more sustainable than factory farming and doesn't cause deforestation or high emissions > Factory farms are known for one thing and that is efficiency. They use less water and cause less emissions because the animals grow faster and eat calorie-denser food than grass which can be grown in a smaller area than pasture farms. Due to this they also emit a lot less methane. The reason Welsh pasture farms don't cause deforestation is because all the forests were already cut down to make space for pastures centuries ago and their output would only cover a tiny fraction of the demand (5%? Less?) if people actually followed his advice and bought local organic pasture-raised meat. 6. Some vegans don't get enough B12 > Most people with a B12-deficiency are not vegan, in fact vegans are only about twice as likely to be deficient according to some statistics in the UK. It seems that eating animal and fortified foods is not a sure way of getting enough B12 and most people should monitor their vitamin levels and supplement regardless of their diet. 7. Death is what happens to you if you're a vegan > Heart disease, stroke, cancer, diabetes etc. are all leading killers in the UK and they have all been directly linked to consumption of animal products. Suggesting that Linda McCartney died due to veganism (she died of metastising breast cancer) is vile especially when you consider that several animal products have been linked to accelerating the progression and increasing the likelyhood of death after getting the disease (Associations between unprocessed red and processed meat, poultry, seafood and egg intake and the risk of prostate cancer: A pooled analysis of 15 prospective cohort studies). 8. Vegans have lower testosterone > I have never heard of such a claim before but I couldn't find any credible source for it. I did find a smaller study (Hormones and diet: low insulin-like growth factor-I but normal bioavailable androgens in vegan men) that found vegans have marginally higher testosterone levels. From the paper: “The results did not support the hypothesis that meat-eaters have higher levels of bioavailable androgens [testosterone] than non meat-eaters. No differences in hormone levels were found between meat-eaters and lacto-ovo-vegetarians, suggesting that vegetarian diets may not alter prostate cancer risk, but the relatively low IGF-I levels in vegans might reduce their risk of prostate cancer.” What's funny is that these people are terrified of things like phytoestrogens which have next to no influence on the body while ignoring the effects of mammalian estrogen which things like cheese have high doses of. 9. Vegans have lower sperm counts > This is the only claim that seems to have some merit based on a study in California (Food intake diet and sperm characteristics in a blue zone: a Loma Linda Study) where people have unusually long livespans (seemingly due to have eaten a lot less meat and animal products than the average). What is well studied however is that sperm motility is negatively affected by unhealthy diets rich in animal products, sugar and salt (Diet and sperm quality: Nutrients, foods and dietary patterns). The last several decades of decreased sperm quality seems to me to be correlated to the increase in these unhealthy western diet patterns. It's a not well studied subject in regards to veganism other than to make sure you're getting all micronutrients and have a well-balanced fatty-acid intake (Diet and Male Fertility: The Impact of Nutrients and Antioxidants on Sperm Energetic Metabolism).
The real argument is that animals taste good and are important to our culture. There's probably some dietary necessity, but who cares? Their suffering is of no consequence to us. So why not eat them?
I can't comprehend how an oxford debate can be held with stating dubious pieces of information. Thank YOU for the research and that you are not trying to deceive people. Big Up!
Linda McCartney died from breast cancer,she was vegetarian. There is no justification for not being Vegan ! It takes compassion and real courage to change ones self. So proud of all the vegans that took part !
@@x-latetv-x6816granted eating pigs may increase the chance of getting cancer but doesn’t do so in a significant manner. The bad side effects from eating pork mainly comes into the picture if not eaten in moderation. At the end of the day it is a personal choice and everyone should eat what they want, as long as they eat things in moderation so as to not damage their own health
@@tpowell3776 Hopkins said Linda McCartney died with or from being a vegan. Her speech was rubbish, telling lies is unacceptable. There is no justification for not being vegan.
How come I can envision so clearly Katie Hopkins in the days of the Salem witch trials, the loudest and most hateful of the mob, accusing all of the other women in the room of being witches. 😆
I think she ‘d be accused of being the witch just by her her cackle & the way she screams as she speaks, like she hates everyone!- not to mention her “sucking on the ass end of a locust”(?) comment.At the end of her ridiculous tantrum, I was truly expecting to see her hop on her broom & fly away!
maybe you are hearing things because you are on an improper human diet? perhaps, you are lacking the required nutrition for rational thought? Perhaps you should eat an egg?
@@austinp.5024 perhaps? ...or maybe it's your pear shaped body and your sunken grayish eyes giving the appearance of someone in urgent need of an egg. The shape of my head is strong and attractive. I eat meat and it shows #NoFartCrew 🥩🥛💪🤙
@@kurtcrean i've optimal bloodwork for an 18 yr old! I'm no longer 18 even though i feel like it! no meds and no problems. i'm strong functioning and mentally sharp! Stay dull turnip breath! Cholesterol is King!
@@kissofjudaz my brain works fine because of my all meat diet. Well I do like a mushroom sauce over a great steak. It's proven vegans can't think for themselves because they lack the proper nutrition
@@Kul-tegin Fact is, that if you can speak English and comment here on the internet, there's a high probability that you are in a sufficiently privileged position that you can also go vegan. That some people cannot is not justification for those who can to choose not to.
Manon Hammond says that being vegan is not fun, that's wild, please go to a slaughter house and repeat that argument.. Also on soya being a lead on deforestation, think, just for a moment what all the animals that are slaughtered eat. The rest of her arguments were even more wild.
How can some off these people from the opposition not think further than their own person or small circle of experiences.. the world is bigger than you and your local environment..
@@RetroVHSGamingVideosA quick Google search says otherwise: is veganism on the decline In 2019, a quarter of food products launched were labelled as vegan. Fast-forward to today and the appetite for veganism is waning, with 14% of European consumers switching to a self-described 'flexitarian' diet instead. Nov 9, 2023 Is vegan losing popularity? In Q1 of 2022, the global score for veganism popularity dipped below 60. The trend was similar in the United States, with a peak score of more than 80 in 2019 and a gradual decline to about 60 in Q1 of 2022.May 29, 2023 I think everyone is sick and tired of vegan's trying to scare everyone into believing eating meat is bad/unhealthy for you. In the early 1900's the cancer rate was around 5% vs 33-50% today and in the early 1900's cardiovascular disease was uncommon vs 1 in 4 deaths today, yet everyone ate meat back then. There's way too many factors that go into people's health and wellbeing (on average people that eat meat also smoke, don't exercise, and generally eat other unhealthy types of food i.e. fast food, fried food, processed sugars and carbohydrates vs vegans) to just blame meat for everyone's health issues.
I'm 64 years old and been vegan for 3 years, I've never eaten a locust or a quinoa. From what realm of fantasy does Katie Hopkins get her facts from? There's no doubt that she's a Kitkat short of a Picnic...
Eating a cow from head to tail apparently does that to you. I feel specially sorry for the man she was trying to be sexy towards at a given moment. Not because of her age (I'm older than her) but because of how repulsive she is
I’ve heard the soy production argument several times with the same conviction. People really don’t know that the soy industry mostly just supplies soy as feed for the animals on factory farms. It’s literally another argument for veganism instead of against it. Soy ingredients are also used in a lot of junk and processed foods etc that aren’t vegan. The soy products that vegans may buy if they want to consume soy is completely removed from the larger soy industry that is actually doing damage to the planet.
Okay, so vegans are 25 % accountable for the destruction of the rainforest, while vegans also represent 1,1 % of the population. Imagine if the world became vegan. That would be a disaster. Per vegan you actually do way more damage to the environment. Also, how do you know where vegans buy their soy? Are you the president of veganism?
Thank god someone else knows this fact. So many people try and spout about vegans ruining the planet from soy production without even knowing that less than 7% of soy production (last time I checked) is actually consumed by people (20% if you include oil). Soy production for use as animal feed for the meat industry was close to 80% if I remember correctly. So that saying is very much apocryphal.
Okay, so vegans are 25 % accountable for the destruction of the rainforest, while vegans also represent 1,1 % of the population. Imagine if the world became vegan. That would be a disaster. Per vegan you actually do way more damage to the environment. Also, how do you know where vegans buy their soy? Are you the president of veganism?
@@AgentLemmon whoa whoa whoa there, hold your horses, cowboy... First off I said 20% at MOST! When and why did it jump to 25? And not once did I say that 20% was due only to vegans! 😂 The majority of that 20% is used in oils, and the majority of people who use that oil is guess who... Fast food joints. Which basically all sell you guessed it. Meat. KFC for example primarily use soybean oil. And the remainder of that 20% which is less than 10% now, is PEOPLE. not vegans, everyone! And the majority of those people eat meat. And if you're saying 1.1% of the population is vegan, well, then that leaves 98.9% of that remainder are meet eaters. As a meat eater I still ate soy products occasionally. Tofu for example. So if you want to bring that measley remainder of a percentage down even more to JUST target vegans... Then I wouldn't be surprised if that number all of a sudden comes down closer to the 1% mark. A slight difference to your 25%, isn't it.
@@religion-freegreat point, the animal rights movement has historically been mostly women, when the RSPCA was first established it was mostly women, and today most animal rights activists are women and yet male activists seem to dominate the higher positions within the movement. Not saying this is or is not a problem, just stating that it is a fact. I am reading 'women and the animal rights movement' by sociologist Emily Gaarder.
It can be a problem@@fluffyunicorn1515 when there are women behind each and every "great man" who lurks in The back- grounds, in their laundry rooms, kitchens, ears, and general vicinity. giving them all The credit. whose names are unuttered and influences unknown, even denied. this is when it becomes a problem. We women can do this - it is males who came up with The idea of war in The first place - just refuse The Hermes bag. nO need to do all this aggressive hoo-ha, we won't get credit anyway. Interesting book! I also plan to read The book that discovered The notion of Carnism but I think I get The gist. Plus I'm glad she gets her due Credit, given it's a XX.
He's a very violent and angry person, pretty short and small as well. Do more research into his background and offences... look into someone more like Earthling Ed if you want an actual activist and not just a narcissist like Joey.
@@GregLakatosChradm correct! And veganism is about reducing the suffering as much as possible. To get a peace of flesh, the animal has to eat plants as well. You need more plants to feed the animals, then eating the plant directly. Therefor you would reduce the harm (even tho plants are very diffrent to animals, painreceptors and so on) by going vegan.
Nature inherently involves the act of living organisms consuming each other in some way or another to continue living. Some seem more cruel than others but every living organism is consuming other organisms. This is absolutely normal and how it has always been. Humans , because of their intelligence choose to label something good or bad but that is just an opinion that reality doesn't care about (not that it can).
@@forexdissector9565 Does your argument also apply to murder, rape, exploitation, etc.? It must if you want to be logically consistent. We as a species have the ability to choose kindness and compassion over cruelty and suffering. You might think those are just human constructs or opinions, but when you are being subjected to one or the other, you naturally know which you'd prefer. Of course there is horrific pain and suffering in the natural world, but nearly all of it occurs in the name of survival. Causing pain, suffering, and death for pleasure/entertainment is almost entirely a human behavior, not a means of survival...at least for a good portion of the world's population.
@@michaelmueller260 It doesn't have to be logicaly consistent. Nature is the way it is and will continue to be that way. If you don't wan't to cause "suffering" that is your choice, but keep in mind that no matter if your eating plants or animals, you too are consuming other organisms. Their too small for you too see, but it doesn't mean they aren't there and also trying to thrive. Its hard to be vegan and successfull longterm or for life . Most don't eat properly and the fact that our top soil isn't producing enough nutritious vegetables like it used to 100 years ago means that most likely will become ill and malnourished in the longrun unless they supplement properly and that might still not be good enough. I guess you could choose to live in areas that the top soil is rich with biodiversity so that your vegetables have plenty of nutrition. Either way animal foods have way more nutrition and are more bioavailable to us(vegans love to say this isn't so, but it is). I'm also not too sure on the generational effects that it might pose to eating a vegan diet for multiple generations.. I remember seeing a youtube video posted by Gatis on these vegan parent and their children looks very thin and malnourished. Hate all you want but these are valid points. In any case, I'm also trying to choose to eliminate meat but i will certainly still consume raw milk and raw eggs.
@@forexdissector9565 There's no hate here whatsoever. As you say, there is no way to survive without causing any harm. No vegan that is intellectually honest will claim they cause no suffering. The idea is to reduce the harm and suffering as much as you practicably can, that's it. There is no evidence to support any of the nonsense claims in your second paragraph...other than SOME animal products being more bioavailable than SOME plant based foods. Even that is a massive overgeneralization and by no means acts a valid argument to eat animals over plants. Why do you think it's hard to be a successful vegan long term or for life? There is no evidence to support that. And where do you get your data that "most" vegans don't eat properly? Can you substantiate that argument? Do you think "most" people that consume animal products DO eat properly? These are not facts, you are just repeating what you think is true based on your personal biases. There are more than enough nutrient rich fruits, vegetables, legumes, etc. being grown to provide every nutrient a person requires. A B12 supplement is probably a good idea for everyone, as studes show that meat eaters are actually deficient in more nutrients then vegans...including B12. Vegans are not becoming ill and malnourished as they age. Please look up any of the countless independent and peer reviewed studies regarding the health benefits/detriments of different diet types. I'm not claiming being vegan is a cure all for anything, but the health benefits are quite clear, while the negative effects are minimal and easily mitigated. Your claim that animal products have "way more nutrition" is frankly just silly. If you're only talking about saturated fats and cholesterol, then I won't argue with you. As far as generational effects? You're engaging in nothing but silly speculation here. I mean, I guess you did see a couple kids on one TH-cam video that you thought might be a bit too thin...so hard to argue with that data. Please know that there is no hatred or animosity here. Disagreeing with you and pointing out the clear flaws in your arguments is not hating.. Your statements/arguments are just simply not based in facts or reality. I'm happy that you are choosing to eliminate meat from your diet, and I hope someday you'll consider removing the rest of the animal products. But that's a choice only you can make. I wish you good health and kindness.
Testosterone levels 🤣 😂 🤣 since i became vegan, i wake up like i was a kid with a rod of iron and im 46 year's old. I have an 8 month old baby and one on the way. Since i became vegan, my health has gotten so much better, pains gone and many other things. So funny to listen to that crazy lady who was obviously drunk as always 🤦🏼🤷🏼
@@thenewcamelot8873 Yeah, unfortunately people's positions tend to cluster in ideological camps - so while the right wing position was mostly right about covid & multiculturalism, it is completely wrong about meat & nutrition. And rather than work through the cognitive dissonance bravely and seek the truth no matter where it lies, most people will just buy a whole ideological package for convenience
Well that was a wildly unexpected ending! 😂 The meat eating supporters might not be right in their points, but they sure passionately defend their ways.
Amazing debate!! It is scary but true that there is a lot of people that think like Katie Hopkins. These people are arrogant, ignorant, narrow minded, egotistical and self centered. We need to continue these debates, stay strong and never give up!! I believe that there is still a lot of good people in the world. Over time they will change. I just wish it could be today
I listened to Joey’s presentation last night and was SO effing proud… 😭❤️🙏 He did the animals proud, too, and I think it will be memorialized as one of the great animal rights speeches - right there with Gary Yourofsky.
Of all the speakers, what he had to say held the most weight. I'm not vegetarian, and will never go vegan, but I do try to reduce consumption of animal products and source products from truly humanely RAISED animals. This means buying direct from the farmers I know and raising my own. I raise chickens and never eggs from grocery stores. Personally, while I don't agree with a blanket ban on meat, dairy and animal products, I do believe factory farming and most if not all commercial fishing should be banned. Nobody needs to eat meat daily, not even weekly. If our consumption was within reason, along with the fact that many people do choose to be vegetarian or vegan, it would make a huge difference without forcing our views on each other.
@@dragonmom8406 you do not really need meat in your diet when you get get highly bioavailable nutrients from raw milk and raw eggs. I would be interested to know the generational effects of a people on a vegan diet. I would bet that unless they evolved like cows and other herbivores to properly assimilate the nutrients in plants and seeds, they would start becoming weaker generation one after the other.
I thought I loved animals so I stopped eating them then my actions aligned with my so called values. The lack of compassion and empathy in this society is unbelievable…that said most fellow humans don’t give a fuck about other humans let alone animals
Who is the crazy person who shouts insults to veganism as if that was going to give her more reason… poor person. She was very insulting, yet had no consistent argument. Go vegan!
You know what's also tragically interesting. As a vet tech in training, I recently when to a school open house to learn more about the degree and school. And as I was leaving, I saw that in the other room where they served the food was served, was aa lot pizza. It may not seem like a big deal to most people, but to me it just seemed very hypocritical that the people who are training to help animals, as well as the instructors are eating and supporting industries that actively murder and abuse animals for profit. It just seems weird to me. Cognitive dissonance towards animal cruelty wide spread and even in animal care facilities.
"The motivation isn't to force my lifestyle onto you but rather I want you to stop forcing your lifestyle onto other animals". No truer words ever spoken!!! Thanks to everyone that is being a voice for the voiceless.
Yet you force your ideology onto everyone. All to prevent the end of the world. This doomsday scam has been around long before you and me and will continue when we are gone. Here is a more appropriate quote “the urge to save humanity is almost always a false front to control it.” HL Mencken
@@timsolomon8352 Hi Tim, I started on a vegeterian diet in 2013 then transitioned to plant-based in 2018 and I only supplement with B12. I’m 5’ 4, weigh 118 lb, ruck daily, do HIIT 2-3 days/wk and strength train 4 days/week. At 51, I have more energy than in my 30’s and no inflammation. Hubby and teenage son are also fit plant based. Majority of people on SAD, carnivore or omnivore diets seem to be plagued with poor health and loads of medications. I see all the drug commercials and know they’re not advertising to the minuscule vegan population. No lack of nutrition when eating whole foods but doctors offices and hospitals are full of meat eaters with heart disease, cancer, diabetes, etc. Wishing you good health! 😊
@@timsolomon8352 Vegan here, I take no supplements! I get my b12 from fortified oatmilk and everything else can be gotten naturally as long as you pay attention to your intake and get lots of nuts and leafy greens.
@Porook oatmilk is something processed though. I'm not knocking you at all. I'm trying to decide on what route I take health wise. I have two family members that have gone two completely different routes. One now eats a "carnivore ish" diet including some leafy greens here and there not much, and the other straight vegan. The vegan , did actually have some health benefits, like no more ear wax, stopped feeling bloated and so on. He runs marathons too, and not the small ones but across states. Only its visible that he lost alot of muscle mass, and does have to take a supplement here and there based on blood work. But overall healthy. The second family member the carnivore, while much older, lost alot of weight, gained muscle mass, lost inflammation " no more arthritis " after years of suffering from it, blood work is great and doesn't have to take supplements. Neither eat any processed foods none. Each food they eat has only one ingredient, and that's whatever food it is. No added this or that, no bread , no cheese, and so on nothing processed. I have inflammation issues which is why I'm looking at the two.
You did an Amazing job. Vegans are from the future (as my husband always says) - THE EVOLVED HUMANS Thank you Joey, Thank you for all you do for Animals. #veganforanimals.
@@agisler87we've always been adaptable. And our diet was mainly based on starches as archaeological evidence suggests from scale buildup in early humans. We had a great advantage from meat in the past. Eating and processing meat gave us a leg up, if nothing else, at least in convenience. Without progress, no human would ever eat a cow, do you agree? Why do you want more to stop progress? We know more about nutrition today than ever before. We are ready to take the next step and reducing harm to all animal life. They don't have to suffer. Pro tip: no one lives forever, you know? You don't need to make anyone live less than what they could.
@@globalist1990Archaeological evidence from when? Our bodies are better suited to eat meat, beef is far more bioavailable than any plant could be. We have a ph level in our stomach that is similar to most carnivores. I could go on. Most nutritional studies are garbage, most are observational studies. They can't even show correlation despite the contradictions of media headlines. I agree we should care about how we raise our livestock, it's a discussion that needs to be done. However like all predators we have no moral obligations to reduce the harm to our food. Nature is brutal and that will never change.
Anthropologists are now saying the whole carrion scavenger cave man theory was not accurate. Early humans were actually very plant based. Early humans are supposedly first from strictly vegan tree dwelling primates then evolving to ground dwelling apes similar to bonobo dwarf chimpanzees our closest relatives which are also strictly vegans like the ground dwelling gorillas. Actually modern man is scavenging on carrion more than any human like primate ever has and is destroying natural habitat to clear land for hunting and to grow massive amounts of soy and corn to fatten these live stock for wasteful consumption.
Thank you Joey for being a voice for the voiceless, and oh what a voice you are man. And I know you'll never stop and give up until there is animal liberation. We need people like you to wake us up to the atrocities that are happening behind our backs so that when we know better we can do better.🤟
Katie Hopkins is right: vegans always die out due to low sperm counts... survival of the fittest. The good news: not all carnivores are barbarians & ogres. #MeatHeals
Im convinced Katie Hopkins is secretly vegan and is taking the opposition down from the inside 😂
😅 LOL
Wouldn't surprise me. I do the same thing but on a smaller scale. I plant shitty bit rhetorically "convincing" arguments that I know carnists love to use- but in reality offer a great handle to expose the immorality of eating meat. It rots carnist sides from the inside out.
I actually assumed she was vegan or vegetarian anyways.
That Vegan Teacher is playing the same game.. as in undermining the V religion.
🤣 either that or shes gone loopy from all the adrenal she eats lol
It is VERY telling, how emotionally intense people get at the mere idea of somebody not killing animals.
The only explanation is that they subconsciously know it’s immoral, and feel bad, like a child that’s been caught stealing, but instead of facing their failure, they hide it away, and the same old defensive -> offensive pipeline takes effect:
“How DARE you accuse me of being immoral! I HATE vegans!”
This is why I don’t debate anymore, people are too emotional, and it’s very draining wading through their old baggage. Ears of understanding, etc.
That's sad. The more people speak out, the more others gain courage to do so.
It's because we put our finger right in the middle of their moral wound. They then try to corrupt our intentions and make us immoral or amoral. They try to complicate what's simple. The truth is, most would never dare to go to a field and bite into a cow's hide for dinner. They absolutely need their servants and a system to provide their prey in a cellophane and styrofoam 500g package. So they don't want the servants to awake to the abuse.
I was talking to a friend earlier today. She was very interested on what kind of things I eat in a plant based diet. We hadn't seen each other in a long time and in that time interval I started eating plant based and I've changed a lot physically for the best. When she asked for my reasons and I mentioned animal suffering, she lowered her eyes and said: "I'm not bothered about that. I know it happens, but that's just not my problem". The conversation ended there. This from one of the most intelligent people I know.
It's clear that what she said cannot be entirely true. An intelligent person has probably thought about this. And decided not to think about it anymore. Because thinking about this leads to only one result. Going vegan.
Rotfl. My comment got deleted again? What for?
What about abortion
I was a meat eater, but now thanks to katie i am a fully fledged vegan
There were people in this room who applauded for Katie Hopkins? And they call themselves intellectuals? 😅 That was the worst argumentation I've ever heard from a non vegan.
I know it’s scary how many seemingly well rounded mildly intelligent people can over look so many facts and logic but that is the insanity of addiction which I believe we all were at some point addicted to meat addicted to dairy addicted to cruelty.
@@tarotqueen9118I'm not even sure it's an addiction. It's just so well ingrained into cultural beliefs that we need to eat nutrients coming from animals or we might become really sick. Then there's half a billion vegetarian Indians that never ate meat but eat dairy and eggs. The cultural norms seem to dictate beliefs. Really takes an ah ha moment for those brought up on animal products to start venturing into plant based.
The power of bias in full the display - the opposite of intellectual honesty or scientific rigour. This is a corrupt politician’s discourse, not that of a serious debater.
Absolutely 💯💯
Just ask the carnivores about their low tess.
I experience secondhand embarrassment from Katie Hopkins. It's worth noting that she complained about people naming their children after geographical locations, despite naming her own child India.
Shes an absurd person
Oh she's that clown. That's where I've seen her. How embarrassing.
She's comedic in many ways. She's changed her mind before and extended apologies despite previously appearing to have an unwavering conviction on the contrary (I think it was to do about her opinion on another celeb or something) . Anyway, we never know, she might change her mind about veganism.
Piers Morgan behaves in a similar way, despite claiming to be against animal abuse. He fails to equate veganism with that exact sentiment, clear dissonance in cognition. People who are blinkered by the status quo and tradition, who are firml set in their ways tend to pick on what they don't understand.
Shes a comedian, right?
Well she sucks @@HORNOMINATOR
21:18 Linda McCartney was a Vegetarian. She didn’t die “with or from being a Vegan”. She died of breast cancer. Katie Hopkins is embarrassing to watch.
Yes, if you delve into the epidemiology, there are loads of quite unhealthy vegans and vegetarians out there - even though they are still healthier than their meat eater counterparts. My educated hunch says, the big difference is not just exercise, but exercise intensity, in terms of mental exercise primarily and physical exercise secondarily. Missing one or the other, and it drops you into that vulnerable state leading to death.
I was a vegan for 4 years nearly killed my self and had cancer. Now Iv been a carnivore for 2 years and I’m cancer free pain free lost 35 pounds gain 10 pounds of muscle with no workout I feel like I’m 18 again. A Raw Vegan life may be better the a typical American diet but in the end it will harm you . Telling people to give up meat you might as well be sentencing them to a log of suffering and pain . Don’t let social views or people options be your undoing . Look up the facts, watch KenDBerry MD on TH-cam and many other who will give you the facts . I’m only one example out of hundreds of Thousands of others.
Vegetarians are incredibly unhealthy compared to Vegans, they have more in common healthwise with carnists than vegans, they're still consuming extremely unhealthy 'foods' and many of them seem to think fish are vegetables.
Saying 'vegetarians AND Vegans' is the only way to find something to use against Veganism.
@@annihilationHavenit's not just that. Linda McCartney was a vegetarian and there is a link between cow's milk and breast cancer. It's a pity she hadn't been vegan.
Loook you guys can be vegan all you want even eat metal and timber for all i care what i would not allow you to do is tell me what i can and cant eat nased on your preferences.
Katie is just embarrassing, it was like watching the town drunk slinging insults at passersby from the gutter.
I love the analogy.
lol
I feel like you can use this analogy for the entirety of her 'career'.
Excellent assessment. Surely you’d need to be drunk to get up and beclown yourself like that? It’s hard to believe people are stupid enough to think anything she said has merit, and yet there was clapping 🤣🤣
Spot on!
It is funny listening to Katie Hopkins. Little does she realize that she is the best argument for going vegan. Eat meat, and you may be like Katie Hopkins. No thanks.
Love this comment, that’s exactly how meat makes you , very angry, and a physco 😊
@@katdc7605that's funny I have seen alot of angry and argumentative and Psycho vegans so what's your point? I don't think it's because what they eat it's the person lol. Also my grandfather was a big meat eater and was the nicest person you could meet just an example to give you
Well I love them meat. Do you have one?
Female Trump and Bill O'Reilly rolled into one. Heck, that lady is even more arrogant than Trump.
@@AdamJohnsey They don't know what they are talking about. They confuse correlation(if there is any) with causation.
Joey Carbstrong you brought me to tears every thoughtful word you said. Well done. Thank you for supporting the voiceless innocent ❤
Would voiceless innocent include unborn babies?
Lol
Tears of joy by an idiot exposing his own stupidity
Was the debate about babies?@@askag11
Katie Hopkins on the side of meat eating, what more persuasion do you need?
This has been my most recent argument in favour of going vegan
I honestly very rarely truly think that unsavory, dishonest and brain dead actors representing a side necessarily make it look bad enough to create a very clear net loss -- they often have some appeal to them, even if it's just pure sophistry and mastery at manipulating the ignorance of others and, even if they don't convince new people, ultimately serve to maintain numbers, but in Katie Hopkins case... I really see nothing. She has no proper arguments, doesn't speak well, carries herself like a lunatic... At least people like Alex Jones manage to capitalize on people that are dumber than him, but I doubt this lady can even do that.
If I was on the side of the animal abusers, I would've campaigned to not have her as a representative and would be deeply ashamed to have such a person on my side. She is the type of person that you clear out of the movement not just to preserve it's image and not give ammunition to the opposition, but also the refine the discussion (unless the goal is to muddy it all...).
😂😂 indeed
Association fallacy, but yes. Go vegan 😉 not because of Katie Hopkins but because it's the right thing to do for animals, the planet, society, and one's health
Actually I take that back. If Katie Hopkins convinces you to see how stupid antiveganism is, I'm glad.
The last person was not worthy of being called in Oxford
She was terrible
She's loved in Britain. She's one if the "anti woke" people.
She was the best. All the vegans were shaking in fear. 😂😂😂
Fear from what? It was an entertaining, yet completely empty speech. It was like empty air coming out of her mouth. @@eastafrica1020
To be fair, nobody on the opposition deserves to be on Oxford, as there is no valid nor true point in their speeches. Complete nonsense, BS, or green/humanewashing.
@@TenTempehand you’re just one of those people who think the world must burn and all animals must die I guess
The vegans come with logic, stats, compassion and wit too (Disha 😂), while the anti-vegans are hysterical and full of excuses. Joey's speech hit hard. 👏
The exact opposite of logic and compassion. Thats why you vegetables are rapidly declining by Your own cult.
Go to Galicia Spain and see how cattle were raised for hundreds of years - and how green the grass is. They are enriching the environment and the best meat is the Rubia Gallega steak, prized for its yellow fat and marbling. It’s an old cow who is retired for her last year of life to fatten up. What better life for a cow? What’s the alternative? The main alternative is the cow goes extinct and there’s a lessening of biodiversity from the cows great contribution to the local environment. And maybe read Wendell Barry - poet and farmer, on rotational grazing, biomimickry and working with the land. Or Joel Salatin who puts that to practice with his Polyface farm. Those farms enrich the environment and feed people sustainably. The land has HIGHER yield than a monoculture farm and higher yield in both calories and nutrients than a factory farm. Of course, there’s very bad nasty meat being produced and nasty methods of growing vegetables. As for human diet and consumption, we’re omnivores and there’s no one-size fits all. A common mistake in thought and argument, however, is to assume that there’s only one (crappy) way of farming for meat, or fishing or preparing food (as delicious and healthy as a sardine is, it’s not so healthy if deep fried or canned in canola oil). Perhaps approach the topic with more subtle and nuance rather than cheerleading one side and demonizing another.
Facts. A dead cow doesn't produce methane. A dead cow doesn't drink water. Ruminate meat is the most macro and micro nutrient dense food on the planet.
There are roughly 2.9 million head of cattle on the planet minus the roughly 300,000 head that are butchered for nutrition. Adding 300,000 head of cattle to the 2.9M will increase methane not reduce it. It will also increase the water consumption of the cattle of the planet. It is a fallacy factually that not killing cattle for nutrition will had to stresses climate "alarmists" complain about.
Vegans kill plants that all they want to do is live. Plants have toxins to defend off predators especially in the seeds (their offspring) that in nature would be deposited in the soil to produce more plants trough bird droppings through pollination and through seeds deposited by trees while vegans flush the seeds down the toilet and those toxins in those seeds biological iritations with in humans.
@@RC-qf3mpthere isn't enough room to farm all cattle like in your example. Much native forest has been felled to graze cattle at the expense of native wildlife's habitats 😡
It’s actually hilarious that these people think that as soon as someone becomes vegan, they immediately start buying bucket loads of quinoa and avocados😂 for some reason they think we don’t eat rice, beans, spaghetti, fruits and vegetables like everyone else.
Being vegan is just eating the same things, but removing the meat, milk and eggs. It’s really not hard, nor expensive. It’s actually so mind numbing when people come out with these ridiculous statements, when in actual fact they don’t have a clue and are just speculating.
And don't forget almonds 😂.
Personally I barely ever eat quinoa, but I do love it. And avocados whilst I find delish too it barely finds it's way into my daily diet. There's just so many options of food that I never get bored.
I think they must be shit cooks if that's the extent of their culinary imaginations.
I've just eaten quinoa for the first time in about a year and rarely eat avocado.
I’ve only ever bought one avocado in my life, and that was before I was Vegan.
Calm down
For real. I can count on one hand the amount of times I've had quinoa in my life. Also, eating locusts is not vegan. 🦗That last lady is so far off her rocker.
joey is going strong and his words are getting more effective each year that passes. bringing us closer to the inevitable vegan future. for morality is not subjective. but a truth that is unraveled by each generation of our modern intellectual society. Go vegan! Go Joey!
He was amazing compared to almost everyone else in there. Calm, well prepared, speaking with confidence and strength.
Yeah he was really good.
He only spoke of the animals' suffering. He got a bit deeper than the other people but it was all interesting.
A quick Google search says otherwise:
is veganism on the decline
In 2019, a quarter of food products launched were labelled as vegan. Fast-forward to today and the appetite for veganism is waning, with 14% of European consumers switching to a self-described 'flexitarian' diet instead. Nov 9, 2023
Is vegan losing popularity?
In Q1 of 2022, the global score for veganism popularity dipped below 60. The trend was similar in the United States, with a peak score of more than 80 in 2019 and a gradual decline to about 60 in Q1 of 2022.May 29, 2023
I think everyone is sick and tired of vegan's trying to scare everyone into believing eating meat is bad/unhealthy for you. In the early 1900's the cancer rate was around 5% vs 33-50% today and in the early 1900's cardiovascular disease was uncommon vs 1 in 4 deaths today, yet everyone ate meat back then. There's way too many factors that go into people's health and wellbeing (on average people that eat meat also smoke, don't exercise, and generally eat other unhealthy types of food i.e. fast food, fried food, processed sugars and carbohydrates vs vegans) to just blame meat for everyone's health issues.
There will never be a future where everyone is vegan. I am sorry. Meat is an essential food for a proper human diet.
@@Kul-tegin exactly, how can you be vegan when you can't grow vegetables because everything is frozen where you live? 🤔
Why do people defend killing animals so passionately? Scary to think if cannibalism was normalised
As a person on the carnivore diet I would eat a human if I could get away with it and not go to prison. I think it would be fun to try human flesh in many different ways on a sample platter for instance. Cook and prepare different cuts, with different seasonings, fry some, grill some, sautee some, add some to a stir fry, make chorizo out of some and put it on a tortilla, etc. I think it should be legal for people who commit suicide or are terminally ill to write a note prior to death that allows them to be eaten and that cannibalism should be legal as long as those rules are followed. Consent should be mandatory and if some teenager wants to kill himself due to depression he should be allowed to give his flesh and organs to skilled cooks for use in dishes.
Another thing is that human meat shouldn't be overpriced and should only cost maybe 25% more than grass fed beef and there should be laws preventing price gouging so everyone can try it if they want and not just the rich.
I eat a lot of pork and many cannibals claim that human flesh tastes like pork but I have always wondered if that is true. I will sadly likely never know though but some day I may cut one of my pinkie fingers off when I'm retired and cook it in some lard and serve on a biscuit with some chives or something after de-boning it and test it because at that age I won't need it as much and then I'll finally know what human flesh tastes like.
Trying human flesh is on my bucket list honestly.
@@Travybear1989you are sick 🥴
Animals die anyway, it’s part of the cycle of life. All animals get eaten after they die - by scavengers, worms, etc. People are omnivores and predators, with eyes in front of our heads and fangs. To deny your own humanity is nihilism and self-hate. That said, there are biologically and ecologically and ethically better and worse ways to consumer animals. And that’s worth assessing. But it’s denial and anti-science religious zealotry to suggest that we should all be vegans, or that being vegan is somehow a natural healthy diet.
Loook you guys can be vegan all you want even eat metal and timber for all i care what i would not allow you to do is tell me what i can and cant eat nased on your preferences.
@@cherylween4973 because I choose to eat steak 🤣🤣🤣 like the rest of the human have been doing since the beginning 🤣🤣🤣, i thought sick was applied to people who went out of the norm i.e not eating meat and trying to force everyone else not to too 🤣💔
When i listen to Katie Hopkins, i, as a Swedish citizen, wonder how it can be accepted to straight out lie in the whole speech. In Sweden, it would be the last time she spoke in public.
Sweden is a more developed and civilized society.
Freyr bless Sweden.
Beautiful Sweden, birthplace of my guru, Emanuel Swedenborg! He was even told to change what he ate in order to have his spiritual awakening. He was already a polymath and a polyglot, a brilliant scientist in the 1700s. The inevitable result of clean eating is a softening of your heart.
But you've never heard of a Swedish comedian. 😂
She's funny. I don't think she was meant to be taken seriously.
I don't agree with Katie Hopkins but I'll fight for her to be able to speak. The censoring of individuals is frightening. Her arguments were flawed, she made her self look and sound a fool. And that is why freedom of speech is so important. You don't need to censor. These idiots destroy their own arguments.
After 4 years of being vegan, I don't think I've eaten quinoa... Also, Katie Hopkins is a lunatic, the fact that she is speaking at a university is nothing short of shameful.
Nice to see another anti death death fan
To be fair, they were all pretty shameful, she was just the loudest.
I'd have expected university students to be mature enough to be able to handle differing points of view.
@@apemoon1731 There is a substantial difference btween "differing points of view" and the blatant anti-intellectualism and lies that Katie Hopkins spews.
@@lucaszech4070 thanks for proving my point 👍🏻
How could Oxford university people genuinely applaud the deranged rambling of Katie Hopkins
What a huge difference between the calm, educated, well-informed proposition (vegans) and the obnoxious, condescending, shouting opposition (non-vegans).
And online people constantly accuse the latter vegans of being like the former. Pure projection.
Shouldn't generalize people based on one video
It’s a comment about the debate.
Totally agree, she looks like a lunatic.
The irony of your comment is deafening! Lol
That last person was just insane
She is unhinged
Definitely insane.
I don't even need to watch to the end of the video to know you're talking about Katie Hopkins. Truly a disturbed woman.
Her counter argument was very weak. And her style of speaking came across more unhinged and theatrical than reseached
now now, no need to insult the insane
I really don't understand why their is even an argument against animal cruelty 🤷♀️ i thought humans hated animal cruelty ? Clearly most people think animals suffering is ok ☹
Loook you guys can be vegan all you want even eat metal and timber for all i care what i would not allow you to do is tell me what i can and cant eat nased on your preferences.
@@rugbystories3344 Where is the animals' say in all this? If anyone is forcing their lifestyles on others it's meat eaters. You never consider what your choices do to the trillions of animals that are exploited every year. People like you are either way too naive and selfish to accept the truth, or you are criminally miseducated. But I know, everything I say is going to fly past your cholesterol-packed head and you're gonna regurgitate the same stupid arguments as every other meat eater.
@@rugbystories3344Hell yeah brother, You tell em! I wanna eat my human meat without pesky vegans telling ME what I can and can't eat!
@@caesarsalad5437 human meat i think you will get arrested 🤣🤦, and still in my worldview and those who pointed out the concept of human rights there is a difference between animals and people
@@rugbystories3344 As if the legality of something dictates its moral importance (Slavery was legal for the longest time). It is true that animals and humans are obviously different but not in a way that permits us to slaughter them for nothing more than taste pleasure. I just hope you consider your position at least one more time sometime :)
The argument that if everyone became vegan overnight than the poor animals would all die is one of the least self-aware and hypocritical arguments out there!
make it make sense :)
Obviously Hopkins is a deliberate clown, but I'm surprised by the arguments put forward by the other speakers.
A simple Google search on arguments for veganism would surely reveal the self-evident fact that most plants are grown for animals, the world demand for beef would render a global conversion to field-grazing cows requiring an additional area of farmland equivalent to the Amazon rainforest, and indeed a global conversion to veganism, similar to all the global conversions to fucking anything ever, would not be imposed in a Thanos-snap.
preach
Yeah, I'm baffled by the fact that they have the audacity to come up to the mic with such an immensely poor understanding of anything philosophy, ethics, or critical thinking related all together and then spout out their incredibly flawed arguments with such confidence. It's appalling. Well anyways, the meat eaters sure made a good case for veganism.
It's true though.
Best speech I've seen of Joey Carbstrong.
@Retired_Vegan_Activistcome out of retirement then and give him a hand.
Wait: that's Joey Armstrong?! - i *thought* he looked familiar. Barely recognised him in a suit!
Agree! Brought me to tears! Well done Joey!
@Retired_Vegan_Activist did you prefer Katie Hopkins delivery? 🫣
It's strange that during a vegan debate, so many arguments to do with climate change and health are brought up. People really should understand the definition of veganism before talking about it.
Sorry, but those things matter greatly too. I am vegan primarily for my health, but knowing that I am also contributing less to animal suffering and environmental damage helps me stay on track. All 3 objectives are important..
Vegan for the Animals 🌱
18 month a vegan in my 60s. It’s not too late to change.
Same here!
Actually that's probably a good age to start, as the body is declining it doesn't require the same amount of amino acids nor does it need as much natural fats and minerals. All of this processing requires energy and the organs to work harder, that is basically going to waste.
I am 71, have been 12 years Vegan, and never felt better. I go to the gym 6 days a week, and not taking any pills. It works for me!
Nice, but why are you vegan
@@Bagter-n3w watch the video!
All I hear when people argue in support of continuing needless animal exploitation, imprisonment, abuse, rape, torture, killing and slaughter is: "ME, ME, ME!!!!" The corpse crunchers sound selfish and self centered and are spouting complete BS.
For me, it’s like nails on a chalkboard listening to people who are against veganism.
Don't hate us because we want to be healthy....lol
"healthy"
Are you claiming that you can’t be healthy as a vegan? If so, you’re either wilfully ignorant or completely ill informed.
@@dystopiaeatsmoney Fun Fact: There are 7 "essential" nutrients that you can't find in ANY plant based products and can ONLY be found in animal based products! Funny how you haven't seen the stories of vegans eventually having to abandon their vegan diet due to vitamin deficiencies which will ultimately lead to serious side effects and chronic illness so yes, I am saying you can't be at optimal health on plant based only. You may improve your health in the first year or two when one comes off of high carbs and goes to plant based only, your body will become healthier than when you were on high carbs and heavy omega 6 junk carbs but eventually you will slowly depreciate your vitamin levels because first off like stated earlier, there are 7 essential nutrients you can't get in plant based in addition controlled studies have proven that the human digestive system absorbs the vitamins and protein at a MUCH higher rate with animal based versus plant based. Mens testosterone levels will drop exponentially on a plant based diet as well. So no, you will NEVER achieve optimal health on plant based only. Vegetarians can get away with their diet more because they incorporate eggs into their diet and eggs are an animal product and loaded with nutrients and the fat in the yolk help tremendously with vitamin absorption. If a vegan were to incorporate eggs into their diet, they would stand a much higher chance of better health.
Katie Hopkins is ironically the greatest Vegan ally up there 💀😭🤣
Dr Rao was completely on point. We must reduce the amount of land used for agriculture and rewild. This is why I am doing exactly that in wales. I am surrounded by sheep farming. It’s dreadful. I did a video of planting 1000 trees the other day actually. Well done to everyone at Oxford union for voting in favour of going vegan. It’s another success story ❤
I’d be interested to follow you. Sounds like you are doing a great thing ❤️🌱🥒🍉
Oh wow please share with the world what you are doing....
I'm Welsh!! Nice to see the comment.
Thanks all. Hopefully see you soon :-)
@@DaxtonKnight da iawn 👍
Phenomenal speech, Joey. ✊
I thought the same.!
I love animals and I don't want to be part of a system that abuses and kills them. As a vegan my food is delicious and I've never been healthier. There is no downside!
I love animals, and i also consume meat every now and then. Also, if you look at the system of wild animals, there is none, so a lion wouldn't consider not eating you. Also, i highly doubt the health benefits. Also, you are 25 % responsible for the kiling of the rainsforest, while all vegans represent about 1,1 % of the world population. That would mean if everyone became vegan you would destroy the earth since per vegan you actually do way more harm to the environment. The environment that animals need to survive.
@AgentLemmon 1/ You don't love animals. 2/ There are no lions where I live so its not an issue. 3/ Read some scientific articles about the health benefits of a vegan diet. There are plenty. 4/ The rainforest is being destroyed to plant crops TO FEED ANIMALS for the meat trade.
Hello, @@AgentLemmon,
You're right. It is true that the rainforest is destroyed through soy production yet 75-85% of soy is fed to farmed animals (the soy is often shipped overseas, to Europe. Tbh i have no idea where you're from)
The soy used in soy milk like Alpro is grown in Europe sustainably.
The majority of crops in general are fed to farmed animals (70-90% depending on the crop)
And a lot of rainforest is destroyed for pastures, for grass fed beef, you know.
@@alicesshelter9719 Hence i said 25 % responsible instead of the 75% that's left.
@@AgentLemmon up to 80% of rainforest destruction is because of cattle.
Supposedly other 20% is for soy (it's probably less because there aren't only 2 reasons for deforestation)
25% of that 20% is for human consumption (mind you that there are vegans that never touch soy, and the majority of soy consumption isn't due to vegans: tofu, tempeh, soy sauce and other food are important elements of cuisine that also consume meat)
So 5% of Rainforest destruction is for soy grown for humans (all humans not just vegans)
Katie Hopkins is somehow actively contributing to veganism by being so nonsensical and hysterical in her arguments against it.
There are vegans that behave similarly. You're better off arguing for decreased meat consumption than veganism. How many people go from a standard American diet to veganism overnight? Would you say a carnivore is more immoral than a person who has a 99% vegetarian diet? Would you say a carnivore contributes to climate change more than the 99% vegetarian? Extremism does nothing to help one's argument. All the moderate people laugh at both sides.
@@limitisillusion7 We’re better advocating something that is morally consistent. This is the very strength of the vegan position. Meat reduction isn’t consistent with that, because it’s like admitting that it’s fine to torture and kill animals, just less of them.
To address your questions: 1. Does it matter what people would do overnight? Our focus is a strong resolve for the end goal and a shift in mentalities, especially given that they are constantly served lies from the meat industry propaganda. It takes time for people to realize the atrocities in which they partake; no vegan expect overnight changes. You need people to push in the extreme, and that creates a gradient of people in between. What matters is the direction, really. Why compromise when it’s clear that animal exploitation is a moral issue that humans must address? 2. Carnivores and vegetarian are both immoral in their consumption of animal products. It serves no purpose to attempt to quantify their guilt. 3. Extremism isn’t inherently bad. In fact, it’s the very thing that keeps veganism consistent and relevant, especially given that what truly is extreme is our treatment of animals and the environment.
@@discursion Moral consistency is a lofty goal, perhaps an unreachable one. Do you drive on roads? Do you pay taxes that fund wars? Do you have a significant savings account? Do you buy material goods?
All of these things negatively impact the lives of animals and humans. Roads cut through habitats. Cars kill animals and pollute the environment. Militaries harm animals and humans alike with impunity. Excess money in a savings account could be spent to save animals in shelters or starving humans globally. Money spent on material goods could be spent on savings animal life too. What's more important? A new pair of shoes or feeding another human/animal for a month? How do you objectively weigh the benefits of a new pair of shoes against the opportunity cost of the starving animal or human? How do you objectively weigh your ride to work and the indirect habitat damage vs the extra time it would take you to walk? Don't forget, the roads and cars kill animals too.
Bottom line, if you take part in any of these behaviors/actions, you're not being morally consistent as a vegan. What you've actually done is place the harm caused by the direct consumption of animal products above the indirect harm caused by all of your other behaviors. That's not consistent at all, it's just hypocrisy. The harm you certainly cause by some or all of the above behaviors are just not as direct as feeding on animals, therefore, you brush them off or are simply unconscious of them altogether.
So when you say there's no point in quantifying guilt, you've effectively stated that you're as guilty as non-vegans via the above behaviors/actions that I pointed out. If guilt is an on/off switch, then everyone's guilty. But when you do attach a magnitude to the guilt, you add all of the very real nuance that actually exists. It's not about being perfect, it's about being better than you were the day before. No one's carbon footprint will be gone until they're dead. Does that mean mean should all take our own lives just to be morally consistent?
Regarding your strategy of "pushing the extreme," that's fine. You are welcome to practice a 100% vegan diet, however, I implore you to pay attention to the results of overbearing criticism of your ideological opposition (in this example, your opposition would be consumers of animal products). The carnivore movement has grown in lockstep with the intolerant vegan movement. Carnivores weren't a social phenomenon until vegans started blocking roadways and entrances to butcher shops. I recommend avoiding the intrusive approaches and leaving the moral superiority complex behind. Instead, adopt a humble approach that seeks to educate. Ad hominems and condescending language are of no use either.
I eat chicken maybe once a month and I consume milk, yogurt and cheese fairly regularly. I'm probably ~98% vegetarian. I'm also fairly educated on nutrition, certainly more than the average person. But even for me, a vegan diet is unsustainable, because I don't have access to the healthcare I would need to ensure my bloodwork was in check. Supplementation can get very complicated when you're compensating for shortcomings in your diet without access to medical oversight. I recommend you focus more of your effort on _systematic issues,_ like supporting universal healthcare and permaculture farming, rather than focusing on boasting about your moral superiority to individuals who are _symtoms_ of the systematic issues.
Blaming people only creates more division, whether it be vegan vs carnivore, Democrat vs Republican, men vs women etc. Vote and campaign for candidates that support your ideology. Open up a vegan restaurant. Grow a garden. Lead by example. If you sit atop your moral high ground pointing fingers without seeing your own hypocrisy, people will ignore you, laugh at you, or even act in such a way to spite you. None of these are conducive to reaching _your_ goals. If you ride a bike enough in the rain, people will start to ask themselves why you are opting to get wet instead of driving. Actions speak louder than words.
@@limitisillusion7Alright, I'll attempt to respond to every point of your newly published book.
1. (A) Moral consistency is a direction you aim at, not necessarily one you attain. We're only asking that people be consistent when they claim to "love animals" and yet directly pay for their torture and abuse. (B) I very occasionally do drive, I do pay taxes, I have a savings account and I buy material goods. These are separate topic and can be discussed separately. Otherwise, it's plain old whataboutism or false dilemma. Vegans are concerned with a specific topic. To blame them for not caring about other topics to absolve yourself from debating the topic of concern is just a poor escape.
2. (A) They do have negative impacts. But their impact is at a much more indirect level, and unlike the direct funding of the murder of animals, it can hardly be controlled by any one person. You buy meat, an animal has to be killed. You buy dairy, an animal has to be abused (and eventually killed too). Eggs directly causes macerated chicks and overly exploited chicken bodies (in 99.99% of cases). The same direct correlation does not exist with any of your examples. (B) There are many ways we can all do better, especially with how we spend money. That being said, I personally try to avoid luxuries, but again, that's beyond the point of veganism. The goal is not to be perfect, but to make efficient practical and ethical choices that can have lasting effect towards a desired goal. When it comes to animal welfare (and other considerations, such as greenhouse gas emissions, land use, pollution and deforestation, and human health), ceasing the consumption of animal products is the easiest, most direct and impactful decision one can make.
3. (A) If you think I am being inconsistent, it's because you wrongly equate consistency with perfection. Consistent means that I agree that I can do better in more ways to help further the cause I value. It would be inconsistent for me to claim that cars aren't detrimental to animals. It is somewhat inconsistent for me to drive one, and I am the first person to admit that. It is, unfortunately, still a necessity that I must sometimes depend on but would gladly set aside given an alternative. Meat is not. Dairy is not. (B) Direct harm is above indirect harm only insofar as it is harm that we can act upon and measure. I have little control on the way my taxes are being used to subsidize the meat and dairy industry. If I did, I certainly wouldn't give them to that end. If a poltiical party proposes a reform, I'll be the first to support it. What's within my immediate control, however, is what I choose to purchase (especially when I don't have to).
4. (A) No, when I said there's not point in quantifying it, I meant that the dairy industry is just as horrible as the meat industry (if not worse) in its treatment of animals. But sure, if as a vegetarian you ended up consuming less animal products than if you had been a full-fledged meat eater, then we can postulate that this is overall better. (B) What I'm saying here is that given that you have the choice to avoid those products altogether and thus the immediate suffering they cause, then "better" still isn't "right" or "moral". It is still purposefully inflicting that same fate to an innocent sentient being with a direct causal relationship.
5. (A) I'm sure some vegans are more practical about it than I am. I couldn't care less what some fragile egos think of the movement, I'm really into this for my own conscience than any kind of social validation. (B) When it comes to debating the issues we raise, I have seen very few sensible and worthwhile arguments in favor of animal agriculture and to me that's all that matters. (C) Portraying an entire movement based on its most extreme elements is just dishonest. (D) I understand that intrusive acts like roadblocks can be shocking, but what I fail to understand is why our treatment of animals should be seen as any less shocking. That is why activists feel entitled to persist in these disruption, and rightly so. (E) I'm not sure why you're attributing to me the doings of other people. As far as I know, ad hominems are always prevalents on both sides of any contentious issue. As for condescending language... I only dare say that it is sadly often justified, though definitely not a persuasive tactic. (F) We need a diversity of approach to convince a plural world. To me, that's all a big cope out to avoid facing the issues raised by activists.
6. (A) If you were as educated on diet as you claim you are, you would certainly say otherwise. (B) You are essentially facing all the same issues on your flexitarian diet if you can't afford to have your blood checked. (C) Animal agriculture, like petroleum dependence, *is* a deeply rooted systemic issue that is one of the main drivers of the sixth mass extinction of biodiversity on earth.
7. (A) You say blame. We say inform. We say raise awareness, debate, discuss. And what of blame? It's not like it's misguided. We place blame where blame is due, that's all. (B) All the things you mention assume that all I'm doing is online activism, which is false. (C) Thanks for the tip, I hope you apply it to yourself as well.
@@discursion When you claim moral consistency, you open all of your behaviors up to criticism and the indirect harm they may cause. That is what is implied by consistency. That is not a whataboutism, is it simply an extension of logic. Compartmentalizing the harm your diet causes from the harm your other actions cause is not logically consistent. It doesn't matter whether that harm is direct or indirect. The only difference between direct and indirect effects is time. I never said you use the ad hominems or condescending language, but you did claim that vegan dietary patterns alone insinuate a moral high ground, which I argued is not logically consistent. There is a fine line between blaming and informing and it takes a lot of care to not cross it accidentally.
I'm not necessarily against a shift to plant dominant diets for those who can do so. I believe it's one strategy of many that can be used to solve the existential problems we face as a species. Again, there are many strategies to do so, and the vegan movement can play an important role. The reason I give my two cents on a common veganism strategy is because I see vegans as helpful allies, but only if they aren't creating more radicalism in the process. I strongly believe that anytime you claim moral superiority you are driving potential "converts" away. Bringing your ego into the strategy doesn't seem to be leading to a net gain of vegans or environmental activists. This is where the line between informing and blaming becomes so important to recognize. I hope you recognize that I don't seek to blame you for exhibiting these strategies even if you do, nor do I blame the radixal vegans who do use the ad hominems and such. I just seek to make my argument, offer recommendations, and leave it at that. Best case scenario, you know a few of the "screeching vegan outside the butcher shop" types who you can persuade to adopt a different strategy. You certainly don't seem to be the radical vegan, nor are most vegans radical. However, you are the most likely person to persuade the radical vegans.
Biodiversity is an important thing, but to blame it on agriculture or petroleum dependence is not exactly correct. When we pull carbon out of the ground via petroleum and redistribute it above ground, that extra carbon creates the potential for more carbon based biodiversity than ever before. The decreasing biodiversity is not due to the animal agriculture or petroleum, but more so due to the particular dominant methods we are currently using for agriculture. Monocropping, over-tilling, lack of crop rotation, and pesticide/herbicide use is the actual problem. All of this destroys the soil food web of life that is otherwise responsible for absorbing the carbon in the atmosphere. If humans face a mass extinction, the biodiversity will come back stronger than ever before in a very short time frame. That, or we could change the way we do agriculture. Instead of green lawns and rural monocrop farms far away from population centers, we plant the largest diversity of organic food as close to the population centers as possible. Then the transportation of food across the world greatly diminishes along with the petroleum use. The result is a return to or even reaching new heights of biodiversity. Cattle can actually play an important role in the process of crop rotation, not to mention the health of cattle prospers when they are eating a larger variety of plant species, as opposed to the cheapest grain that we can grow. And that leaves the consumption of naturally produced milk and naturally deceased cattle as a viable and ethical option. There is no better time to plant a garden, and I say that as someone who doesn't have a garden now. But I will very soon.
Joey, that was absolutely perfect. I have yet to see a really compelling argument for meat, but this was definitely bottom of the barrel.
Vegan is the abselute only Way for humanity , and the ONLY Way for a better world in all areas !. Please please find your common sense and compassion for other Living innocent beings 🙏🙏🙏❤️❤️❤️
Ohhh what a horrible person is this Katie Hopkins....!!!! So happy to live a 1000 procent vegan..also my daughter who is 16 and vegan for 16 years...yeahhh 🥰 Her father is a vegan also! (Strong, healthy and goodlooking☺ ) Long live justice for all animals 🐳 greetings from Germany and Holland
it always makes me happy to hear about a vegan family 💚 good on you🐷🐮🐟🐔🐝🦞
Wishing a vegan lifestyle for all the families in the world... the doors will open for happiness all around❤
Thanks for watching - glad to hear you and your family are thriving 🌱
Thank-you so much for raising another human being, ethically from the beginning! If the human race wants to survive, we NEED that!
💚🙂🌱🙂
Thank you, Dr. Sailesh Rao.....Joey Carbstrong and others... hard to listen to the heartlessness of those justifying the cruelty of meat eating, for their momentary taste sensation; or because its too much 'work' for them to cook plant-based.
Such nonsense. Humans evolved on meat. There are several nutrients not found in plants. We are not herbivores.
The argument of veganism for ethical reasons is absurd. Have you ever plowed a field before? When you till a field to plant your corn, wheat, avocados, almonds, whatever.. you kill.. everything. If you think that all life is sacred, what about the lives of the ground nesting birds, squirrels, rodents, grasshoppers, insects, and so on? In California the average avocado farm kills 19,000 ground squirrels per year. And that's not counting the billions of bees. They bring them up from Brazil to pollenate the trees and then they die. Then they spray the trees with some organic pesticide and kill ALL the bugs.
If you look ANYWHERE in the ecosystem, everything is living at the expense of another organism. I think your perspective on life is incredibly privileged and naive. I encourage you to plant your own garden this spring and see how it goes. Seriously. See how the life around your garden affects your crops and what they do. Then you can step back and realize how your one or two tomato plants are less than a drop in the ocean in comparison to the size and vastness of big agriculture and what measures are taken to farm crops for millions of people.
Most people eat meat because they know it's an essential part of a proper human diet. Yes, the corporate food industry has terrible practices when it comes to meat, but you can also say the same thing for the rest of corporate food.
@@pokeliciousnchill2932 yes but they can't see the truth because all the lies they have been fed.
@@richardcardinale7152 we are all being lied to. The true evil is processed food. Humans have been eating meat our entire history. It isn't going anywhere.
Not eaten meat for 40 years 😂 still alive and kicking. 6 years vegan now 😊 I’m 67 never broken a bone in my life 🌱 vegan is the way to go . Katy you should be ashamed 😡
If anyone was wondering:
The final count had 112 members voting for the motion and 84 members voting against.
Let's hope it stays in place
I was. Thx.
Were the 84 also drunk?
@@leviahimsa 84 still with properly functioning brains.
@@charles_preston Really? How so?
And people say vegans are crazies?
Honestly, every one has crazy in their camp.
yeah
@@Red3f1ned yeah if you swap a soul from going to a human with one going to a food animal and they both grow old enough then the non human host will have defiantly done nothing wrong during their existence so purely innocent by default. i suppose its good that we question religion aye.
I was thinking exactly that. Are these people the ones leading the country? Worrying...
Yes because they are.. running into restaurants screaming bloody murder and the cringe “protests”, so many things.
I've been meat free over 6 years and vegan over 4. I'm 6ft 3 and have 2 children. So Katie Hopkins blabbing about testosterone, is ridiculous. She just rants and raves, but doesn't actually say anything.
My sister is allergies to berries and certain type of plants. She also allergic to nuts and have a skin condition. Once she went carnivore her skin condition went away. Everybody body is different I don’t understand why everybody is so against eating meat. This cult honestly needs to stop
@@henryyoung2361Because the entire meat industry is predicated on the immense suffering and predation of animals. Are you dumb? Genuinely asking.
Whoever booked Katie Hopkins to speak at this is a legend. Thank you, from the vegans and the animals ☺️
Her performance may have made her the greatest vegan advocate by proxy, from focusing a spotlight and new interests for much-needed vegan education. lol
If politicians were this funny, people might actually take notice of what happens in parliament.
here here. One of the most abhorrent and callous people int he mainstream distancing herself from an ethical cause - it's just what you want
@@OwenP111 dude, it's a school debate. And she is having a laugh. You should try it some time.
Katie Hopkins is a moron
It's amazing seeing people not want to eat vegetables so bad
I can honestly say I have never craved broccoli or zucchini, but I have craved a fatty cut of meat..
@@tpowell3776 Funny, after just 4+ years of being vegan I don't crave meat at all. I get disgusted just thinking about it now. Makes you wonder if maybe we just crave what we're conditioned to eat.
@@NostalgiCrazy If you are able to truly eat ONLY whole plant foods with ZERO impossible burgers, veganaise, fake chicken nuggets, and vegan comfort food at vegan restaurants with the food cooked in all those seed and vegetable oils thats flooded in their mac and cheese and other fake processed foods than Good on you, but thats not what Ive witnessed with my vegan friends, they are eating junk, and hungry all the time.
Some peoples’ constitutions can’t process vegetables and have food sensitivities. That’s why some don’t want to eat vegetables.
I hate vegetables. I'm a vegan.
You know you're on the wrong side of the debate when you're in agreeance with Katie Hopkins.
I used to watch stand up comedy. Now I watch carnists performing mental gymnastics. It’s just as good as stand up comedy.
Soy is grown to mainly feed animals you eat…
Having Madam Hopkins in any debate is the least intelligent thing a university could do. She just spews nonsense.
Katie Hopkins has spoken in the past about her epilepsy. There's a pork tapeworm that causes an enormous number of epilepsy cases worldwide. I wonder if she even knows this.
Who is gonna tell Katie Hopkins that bugs aren't vegan. Holy shit the omnivore brain rot is so real it is undeniable.
I kept thinking that each time the mad woman mentioned 'locusts', why would a Vegan be munching on a living insect, she has definitely lost the plot.
She thinks vegans are part of some global conspiracy where the overlords want us to eat bugs..
When they dont know what to say they start screeming
She is completely worng about testosterone, sperm coint and survival of the fittest!
A 180 from Joey Carbstrong to Katie Hopkins! I’m proud to be on the right side of history. Keep being the voice of the animals.
She forgot that “Thou shall not kill”
Katie Hopkins just convinced me to go vegan!
Sorry, wdym? @@liquidmind
Vegans are so tasty especially cows lambs and chickens:)
Interesting how every single argument from the opposition was either based in personal feelings, false or misrepresented statistics, logical fallacies and/or lies. I'll try to lay out the errors here:
1. "Habitats are destroyed because of the rising demand for grains"
> to feed animals
2. Quinoa has tripled in price so locals can't buy it
> non-vegans eat a lot more quinoa overall and it's not an essential food item for vegans
3. "Soya is now one of the leading causes of deforestation in South America"
> to feed animals, including animals in the EU and UK through imports
4. Methane has a short lifespan
> It's estimated to have a halftime of about 12 years which means that it takes about 80 years to decay to 1% of the released amount at which point it turns into CO2. This is a huge problem since methane is over 100x more powerful of a greenhouse gas than CO2. Accounting for the halftime the global warming potential over 100 years is still 28 times greater than the same amount of CO2 released. Saying researchers aren't taking this into account in calculations is a lie. Add to this that the atmospheric concentration of methane has been growing for centuries, accelerated in recent decades and that animal agriculture is a leading cause. If anything this should be a huge motivator to end animal farming as soon as possible to rapidly decrease the concentration.
5. Welsh pasture-based beef and sheep farming is more sustainable than factory farming and doesn't cause deforestation or high emissions
> Factory farms are known for one thing and that is efficiency. They use less water and cause less emissions because the animals grow faster and eat calorie-denser food than grass which can be grown in a smaller area than pasture farms. Due to this they also emit a lot less methane. The reason Welsh pasture farms don't cause deforestation is because all the forests were already cut down to make space for pastures centuries ago and their output would only cover a tiny fraction of the demand (5%? Less?) if people actually followed his advice and bought local organic pasture-raised meat.
6. Some vegans don't get enough B12
> Most people with a B12-deficiency are not vegan, in fact vegans are only about twice as likely to be deficient according to some statistics in the UK. It seems that eating animal and fortified foods is not a sure way of getting enough B12 and most people should monitor their vitamin levels and supplement regardless of their diet.
7. Death is what happens to you if you're a vegan
> Heart disease, stroke, cancer, diabetes etc. are all leading killers in the UK and they have all been directly linked to consumption of animal products. Suggesting that Linda McCartney died due to veganism (she died of metastising breast cancer) is vile especially when you consider that several animal products have been linked to accelerating the progression and increasing the likelyhood of death after getting the disease (Associations between unprocessed red and processed meat, poultry, seafood and egg intake and the risk of prostate cancer: A pooled analysis of 15 prospective cohort studies).
8. Vegans have lower testosterone
> I have never heard of such a claim before but I couldn't find any credible source for it. I did find a smaller study (Hormones and diet: low insulin-like growth factor-I but normal bioavailable androgens in vegan men) that found vegans have marginally higher testosterone levels. From the paper: “The results did not support the hypothesis that meat-eaters have higher levels of bioavailable androgens [testosterone] than non meat-eaters. No differences in hormone levels were found between meat-eaters and lacto-ovo-vegetarians, suggesting that vegetarian diets may not alter prostate cancer risk, but the relatively low IGF-I levels in vegans might reduce their risk of prostate cancer.”
What's funny is that these people are terrified of things like phytoestrogens which have next to no influence on the body while ignoring the effects of mammalian estrogen which things like cheese have high doses of.
9. Vegans have lower sperm counts
> This is the only claim that seems to have some merit based on a study in California (Food intake diet and sperm characteristics in a blue zone: a Loma Linda Study) where people have unusually long livespans (seemingly due to have eaten a lot less meat and animal products than the average). What is well studied however is that sperm motility is negatively affected by unhealthy diets rich in animal products, sugar and salt (Diet and sperm quality: Nutrients, foods and dietary patterns). The last several decades of decreased sperm quality seems to me to be correlated to the increase in these unhealthy western diet patterns. It's a not well studied subject in regards to veganism other than to make sure you're getting all micronutrients and have a well-balanced fatty-acid intake (Diet and Male Fertility: The Impact of Nutrients and Antioxidants on Sperm Energetic Metabolism).
Good work! Sadly the carnists won't read it, and those of us who are plant based know you're right.
The real argument is that animals taste good and are important to our culture. There's probably some dietary necessity, but who cares?
Their suffering is of no consequence to us. So why not eat them?
Thanks bro.😊
Facts, reasoning, & logic… won’t work on carnists unfortunately. They are devoid of those things (I used to be, too)
I can't comprehend how an oxford debate can be held with stating dubious pieces of information. Thank YOU for the research and that you are not trying to deceive people. Big Up!
Going vegan is the best choice i have ever made in my life. If you don't want a behaviour like the last lady than you should also go vegan
It is amazing how easily debunked the carnist arguments are
LOL...how have carnist arguments been debunked? Can't wait to here this garbage....please elaborate.
Lions tho, bacon tho, crop deaths tho, mental gymnastics tho…
@@shawnlewis1918just watch any debate ever...
Vegan influencers are dropping like flies so it will take a ride to the hospital to prove you guys wrong.
@@earthpart3 I have and all I hear are activist nonsense....the mental gymnastics are breathtaking though I have to admit! Lol
Linda McCartney died from breast cancer,she was vegetarian.
There is no justification for not being Vegan !
It takes compassion and real courage to change ones self.
So proud of all the vegans that took part !
Why should i choose a pig over my health🤔
@@x-latetv-x6816granted eating pigs may increase the chance of getting cancer but doesn’t do so in a significant manner. The bad side effects from eating pork mainly comes into the picture if not eaten in moderation. At the end of the day it is a personal choice and everyone should eat what they want, as long as they eat things in moderation so as to not damage their own health
Are you saying vegans dont get breast cancer???
@@tpowell3776 Hopkins said Linda McCartney died with or from being a vegan. Her speech was rubbish, telling lies is unacceptable.
There is no justification for not being vegan.
@@randomsome1773 personal choice is great but when victims are involved personal choice is not an option !
I love animals! Vegan 15 years ❤️
How come I can envision so clearly Katie Hopkins in the days of the Salem witch trials, the loudest and most hateful of the mob, accusing all of the other women in the room of being witches. 😆
I think she ‘d be accused of being the witch just by her her cackle & the way she screams as she speaks, like she hates everyone!- not to mention her “sucking on the ass end of a locust”(?) comment.At the end of her ridiculous tantrum, I was truly expecting to see her hop on her broom & fly away!
maybe you are hearing things because you are on an improper human diet? perhaps, you are lacking the required nutrition for rational thought? Perhaps you should eat an egg?
@@austinp.5024 perhaps?
...or maybe it's your pear shaped body and your sunken grayish eyes giving the appearance of someone in urgent need of an egg. The shape of my head is strong and attractive. I eat meat and it shows
#NoFartCrew 🥩🥛💪🤙
@@ElPapacitoGrandeYou eat meat and it shows? In your blood work? Mine improved a lot when I stopped, maybe you should try it.
@@kurtcrean i've optimal bloodwork for an 18 yr old! I'm no longer 18 even though i feel like it! no meds and no problems. i'm strong functioning and mentally sharp! Stay dull turnip breath!
Cholesterol is King!
So easy and enjoyable to choose vegan ✌️🍉
Me and my family shared a very good bourbon Brown sugar marinated grilled flank steak. Next week it's ribeye steaks
@@scottmartin5093found the attention seeking virgin!
@@scottmartin5093That’s positive proof it stimulates ignorant responses rather than brain function.
@@kissofjudaz my brain works fine because of my all meat diet. Well I do like a mushroom sauce over a great steak. It's proven vegans can't think for themselves because they lack the proper nutrition
@@Kul-tegin Fact is, that if you can speak English and comment here on the internet, there's a high probability that you are in a sufficiently privileged position that you can also go vegan. That some people cannot is not justification for those who can to choose not to.
Manon Hammond says that being vegan is not fun, that's wild, please go to a slaughter house and repeat that argument.. Also on soya being a lead on deforestation, think, just for a moment what all the animals that are slaughtered eat. The rest of her arguments were even more wild.
How can some off these people from the opposition not think further than their own person or small circle of experiences.. the world is bigger than you and your local environment..
But what is your point then, that they're not considering greater impacts of meat eating on the world etc?
We are unstoppable. A vegan world is possible 🌱🌎💚
not just possible-inevitable
saying there will be animal factory-farms in 100 years time...
is like saying cars will run on gasoline
In your wet dreams ahahaha
@@RetroVHSGamingVideosA quick Google search says otherwise:
is veganism on the decline
In 2019, a quarter of food products launched were labelled as vegan. Fast-forward to today and the appetite for veganism is waning, with 14% of European consumers switching to a self-described 'flexitarian' diet instead. Nov 9, 2023
Is vegan losing popularity?
In Q1 of 2022, the global score for veganism popularity dipped below 60. The trend was similar in the United States, with a peak score of more than 80 in 2019 and a gradual decline to about 60 in Q1 of 2022.May 29, 2023
I think everyone is sick and tired of vegan's trying to scare everyone into believing eating meat is bad/unhealthy for you. In the early 1900's the cancer rate was around 5% vs 33-50% today and in the early 1900's cardiovascular disease was uncommon vs 1 in 4 deaths today, yet everyone ate meat back then. There's way too many factors that go into people's health and wellbeing (on average people that eat meat also smoke, don't exercise, and generally eat other unhealthy types of food i.e. fast food, fried food, processed sugars and carbohydrates vs vegans) to just blame meat for everyone's health issues.
🤮
I'm 64 years old and been vegan for 3 years, I've never eaten a locust or a quinoa.
From what realm of fantasy does Katie Hopkins get her facts from?
There's no doubt that she's a Kitkat short of a Picnic...
Is Katie Hopkins fine ? I'm worried
😂😂🤣😂
she eat a lot of meat...
most sane meat eater
Eating a cow from head to tail apparently does that to you. I feel specially sorry for the man she was trying to be sexy towards at a given moment. Not because of her age (I'm older than her) but because of how repulsive she is
She's a Troll 2 fan.
Katie Hopkins. A woman without tolerance pleads for it in the chamber. Bad comedy.
Katie says vegans eat locusts but eating locusts would be non-vegan. Locusts are part of the broad category of animals.
Vegan since 2015 probably only eaten quinoa two or three times ever 😂
I’ve heard the soy production argument several times with the same conviction. People really don’t know that the soy industry mostly just supplies soy as feed for the animals on factory farms. It’s literally another argument for veganism instead of against it. Soy ingredients are also used in a lot of junk and processed foods etc that aren’t vegan. The soy products that vegans may buy if they want to consume soy is completely removed from the larger soy industry that is actually doing damage to the planet.
Ikr, you can tell that Manon didn't do more than 5 minutes of research.
Okay, so vegans are 25 % accountable for the destruction of the rainforest, while vegans also represent 1,1 % of the population. Imagine if the world became vegan. That would be a disaster. Per vegan you actually do way more damage to the environment. Also, how do you know where vegans buy their soy? Are you the president of veganism?
Thank god someone else knows this fact. So many people try and spout about vegans ruining the planet from soy production without even knowing that less than 7% of soy production (last time I checked) is actually consumed by people (20% if you include oil). Soy production for use as animal feed for the meat industry was close to 80% if I remember correctly. So that saying is very much apocryphal.
Okay, so vegans are 25 % accountable for the destruction of the rainforest, while vegans also represent 1,1 % of the population. Imagine if the world became vegan. That would be a disaster. Per vegan you actually do way more damage to the environment. Also, how do you know where vegans buy their soy? Are you the president of veganism?
@@AgentLemmon whoa whoa whoa there, hold your horses, cowboy...
First off I said 20% at MOST! When and why did it jump to 25?
And not once did I say that 20% was due only to vegans! 😂
The majority of that 20% is used in oils, and the majority of people who use that oil is guess who... Fast food joints. Which basically all sell you guessed it. Meat. KFC for example primarily use soybean oil.
And the remainder of that 20% which is less than 10% now, is PEOPLE. not vegans, everyone! And the majority of those people eat meat. And if you're saying 1.1% of the population is vegan, well, then that leaves 98.9% of that remainder are meet eaters. As a meat eater I still ate soy products occasionally. Tofu for example. So if you want to bring that measley remainder of a percentage down even more to JUST target vegans... Then I wouldn't be surprised if that number all of a sudden comes down closer to the 1% mark. A slight difference to your 25%, isn't it.
Extremely grateful for Joey Carbstrong. Wow!!! Would love to see that with videos of what he's talking about.
They really had to scrape the bottom of the barrel to find opposition didn’t they. 😂
Never heard of Joey Carbstrong before, but I just became an instant fan.
He is definitely one of the best!
Earthling Ed, and Joey Carbstrong
are mY pushes who made me Vegan,
Gary Yourofsky was their push. They
are all males, which is massively surprising
@@religion-freegreat point, the animal rights movement has historically been mostly women, when the RSPCA was first established it was mostly women, and today most animal rights activists are women and yet male activists seem to dominate the higher positions within the movement. Not saying this is or is not a problem, just stating that it is a fact. I am reading 'women and the animal rights movement' by sociologist Emily Gaarder.
It can be a problem@@fluffyunicorn1515
when there are women behind each and
every "great man" who lurks in The back-
grounds, in their laundry rooms, kitchens,
ears, and general vicinity. giving them all
The credit. whose names are unuttered
and influences unknown, even denied.
this is when it becomes a problem. We
women can do this - it is males who came
up with The idea of war in The first place -
just refuse The Hermes bag. nO need to
do all this aggressive hoo-ha, we won't get
credit anyway. Interesting book! I also plan
to read The book that discovered The notion
of Carnism but I think I get The gist. Plus I'm
glad she gets her due Credit, given it's a XX.
He's a very violent and angry person, pretty short and small as well. Do more research into his background and offences... look into someone more like Earthling Ed if you want an actual activist and not just a narcissist like Joey.
I have never seen someone that eats meat yell at someone eating a salad.
You dont need to kill a Living being to Eat a salad 😉 thats Way,.. no victim no yelling 🫶🏼
@@christinabehrendt8049Plants are living. LOL!!!
@@GregLakatosChradm correct! And veganism is about reducing the suffering as much as possible. To get a peace of flesh, the animal has to eat plants as well. You need more plants to feed the animals, then eating the plant directly. Therefor you would reduce the harm (even tho plants are very diffrent to animals, painreceptors and so on) by going vegan.
Thanks Joey for standing for the innocent animals. Kate Hopkins should be ashamed of herself.
Unfortunately, other than intelligence, shame is the thing she has the least of.
Nature inherently involves the act of living organisms consuming each other in some way or another to continue living. Some seem more cruel than others but every living organism is consuming other organisms. This is absolutely normal and how it has always been. Humans , because of their intelligence choose to label something good or bad but that is just an opinion that reality doesn't care about (not that it can).
@@forexdissector9565 Does your argument also apply to murder, rape, exploitation, etc.? It must if you want to be logically consistent. We as a species have the ability to choose kindness and compassion over cruelty and suffering. You might think those are just human constructs or opinions, but when you are being subjected to one or the other, you naturally know which you'd prefer. Of course there is horrific pain and suffering in the natural world, but nearly all of it occurs in the name of survival. Causing pain, suffering, and death for pleasure/entertainment is almost entirely a human behavior, not a means of survival...at least for a good portion of the world's population.
@@michaelmueller260 It doesn't have to be logicaly consistent. Nature is the way it is and will continue to be that way. If you don't wan't to cause "suffering" that is your choice, but keep in mind that no matter if your eating plants or animals, you too are consuming other organisms. Their too small for you too see, but it doesn't mean they aren't there and also trying to thrive.
Its hard to be vegan and successfull longterm or for life . Most don't eat properly and the fact that our top soil isn't producing enough nutritious vegetables like it used to 100 years ago means that most likely will become ill and malnourished in the longrun unless they supplement properly and that might still not be good enough. I guess you could choose to live in areas that the top soil is rich with biodiversity so that your vegetables have plenty of nutrition. Either way animal foods have way more nutrition and are more bioavailable to us(vegans love to say this isn't so, but it is).
I'm also not too sure on the generational effects that it might pose to eating a vegan diet for multiple generations.. I remember seeing a youtube video posted by Gatis on these vegan parent and their children looks very thin and malnourished. Hate all you want but these are valid points.
In any case, I'm also trying to choose to eliminate meat but i will certainly still consume raw milk and raw eggs.
@@forexdissector9565 There's no hate here whatsoever. As you say, there is no way to survive without causing any harm. No vegan that is intellectually honest will claim they cause no suffering. The idea is to reduce the harm and suffering as much as you practicably can, that's it.
There is no evidence to support any of the nonsense claims in your second paragraph...other than SOME animal products being more bioavailable than SOME plant based foods. Even that is a massive overgeneralization and by no means acts a valid argument to eat animals over plants. Why do you think it's hard to be a successful vegan long term or for life? There is no evidence to support that. And where do you get your data that "most" vegans don't eat properly? Can you substantiate that argument? Do you think "most" people that consume animal products DO eat properly? These are not facts, you are just repeating what you think is true based on your personal biases. There are more than enough nutrient rich fruits, vegetables, legumes, etc. being grown to provide every nutrient a person requires. A B12 supplement is probably a good idea for everyone, as studes show that meat eaters are actually deficient in more nutrients then vegans...including B12. Vegans are not becoming ill and malnourished as they age. Please look up any of the countless independent and peer reviewed studies regarding the health benefits/detriments of different diet types. I'm not claiming being vegan is a cure all for anything, but the health benefits are quite clear, while the negative effects are minimal and easily mitigated. Your claim that animal products have "way more nutrition" is frankly just silly. If you're only talking about saturated fats and cholesterol, then I won't argue with you.
As far as generational effects? You're engaging in nothing but silly speculation here. I mean, I guess you did see a couple kids on one TH-cam video that you thought might be a bit too thin...so hard to argue with that data.
Please know that there is no hatred or animosity here. Disagreeing with you and pointing out the clear flaws in your arguments is not hating.. Your statements/arguments are just simply not based in facts or reality. I'm happy that you are choosing to eliminate meat from your diet, and I hope someday you'll consider removing the rest of the animal products. But that's a choice only you can make. I wish you good health and kindness.
Who would have thought the lovely Katie H would be so good at getting people to go vegan. 👌😂
Testosterone levels 🤣 😂 🤣 since i became vegan, i wake up like i was a kid with a rod of iron and im 46 year's old. I have an 8 month old baby and one on the way. Since i became vegan, my health has gotten so much better, pains gone and many other things. So funny to listen to that crazy lady who was obviously drunk as always 🤦🏼🤷🏼
People seriously clapped and cheered for the last woman? Who even let her in the building? Insanity.
Think they were clapping the fact that she was hilariously bad and just throwing opinions rather than FACTS 😂😂😂 her speech was satire right??
she's right about a lot though like the covid and the quackcine islmis"ation of uk.
@@JennyMackie I certainly hope so. Even if it is it seems to belittle the gravity of the topic, doesn't it?
@@thenewcamelot8873 Why is she even talking about covid? The topic is veganism. smh.
@@thenewcamelot8873 Yeah, unfortunately people's positions tend to cluster in ideological camps - so while the right wing position was mostly right about covid & multiculturalism, it is completely wrong about meat & nutrition. And rather than work through the cognitive dissonance bravely and seek the truth no matter where it lies, most people will just buy a whole ideological package for convenience
Well that was a wildly unexpected ending! 😂 The meat eating supporters might not be right in their points, but they sure passionately defend their ways.
Dont need to defend health, health is a human right
The arguments of not going vegan are so shallow and easily proven so.
Well done Dr Rao, Disha & Joey. And Katie, seek help love
❤ LOVE VEGANISM AND JOEY
Joey Carbstrong.... devastating numbers he quoted, passionately delivered and very evocative and convincing.
Amazing debate!! It is scary but true that there is a lot of people that think like Katie Hopkins. These people are arrogant, ignorant, narrow minded, egotistical and self centered. We need to continue these debates, stay strong and never give up!! I believe that there is still a lot of good people in the world. Over time they will change. I just wish it could be today
Katie Hopkins is a psychopath and in no way reflects normal meat eaters. There are plenty of vegans that are freaks too.
Change is coming for sure ❤
I listened to Joey’s presentation last night and was SO effing proud… 😭❤️🙏 He did the animals proud, too, and I think it will be memorialized as one of the great animal rights speeches - right there with Gary Yourofsky.
Yep & many of the Ed Winters talks too. Well done Joey, you say it well & from the heart.
Of all the speakers, what he had to say held the most weight. I'm not vegetarian, and will never go vegan, but I do try to reduce consumption of animal products and source products from truly humanely RAISED animals. This means buying direct from the farmers I know and raising my own. I raise chickens and never eggs from grocery stores. Personally, while I don't agree with a blanket ban on meat, dairy and animal products, I do believe factory farming and most if not all commercial fishing should be banned. Nobody needs to eat meat daily, not even weekly. If our consumption was within reason, along with the fact that many people do choose to be vegetarian or vegan, it would make a huge difference without forcing our views on each other.
@@dragonmom8406 you do not really need meat in your diet when you get get highly bioavailable nutrients from raw milk and raw eggs. I would be interested to know the generational effects of a people on a vegan diet. I would bet that unless they evolved like cows and other herbivores to properly assimilate the nutrients in plants and seeds, they would start becoming weaker generation one after the other.
I thought I loved animals so I stopped eating them then my actions aligned with my so called values. The lack of compassion and empathy in this society is unbelievable…that said most fellow humans don’t give a fuck about other humans let alone animals
I'm fully aware, and have gone vegan since listening to people like Joey, but he nearly made me cry.
Good to hear. I stopped eating meat at the age of 7. And I am now a healthy 66yr old, and almost vegan. Definitely worked for me! 😊
.
Cool, good for you just dont try to force me to eat what you eat
And thanks indeed to all of those wise and eloquent vegans who spoke. Bravi!
Who is the crazy person who shouts insults to veganism as if that was going to give her more reason… poor person. She was very insulting, yet had no consistent argument.
Go vegan!
I am vegan, i don't eat quinoa, i don't eat almonds or avocados.... those talking points are moot. Also, thanks Joey!
And there are no other people on the planets right 😂
What about others who eat it ?
I learned that Hopkins is not only repulsive from the outside
Vegans sound more logic.
That last woman must have prepared a speech for satire purposes lol
If misinformation and delusiona claims were funny she would have been hilarious.
Can anyone explain to me what Katie Hopkins was on about 🤔 To me she was talking through her backside 🙄
Isn’t that her default position?
That last lady is absolutely insane, got more than one screw loose for sure!
You know what's also tragically interesting. As a vet tech in training, I recently when to a school open house to learn more about the degree and school. And as I was leaving, I saw that in the other room where they served the food was served, was aa lot pizza. It may not seem like a big deal to most people, but to me it just seemed very hypocritical that the people who are training to help animals, as well as the instructors are eating and supporting industries that actively murder and abuse animals for profit. It just seems weird to me. Cognitive dissonance towards animal cruelty wide spread and even in animal care facilities.
"The motivation isn't to force my lifestyle onto you but rather I want you to stop forcing your lifestyle onto other animals". No truer words ever spoken!!! Thanks to everyone that is being a voice for the voiceless.
Yet you force your ideology onto everyone. All to prevent the end of the world. This doomsday scam has been around long before you and me and will continue when we are gone. Here is a more appropriate quote “the urge to save humanity is almost always a false front to control it.” HL Mencken
How many supplements do you have to take bc of the lack of nutrition? Just curious.
@@timsolomon8352 Hi Tim, I started on a vegeterian diet in 2013 then transitioned to plant-based in 2018 and I only supplement with B12. I’m 5’ 4, weigh 118 lb, ruck daily, do HIIT 2-3 days/wk and strength train 4 days/week. At 51, I have more energy than in my 30’s and no inflammation. Hubby and teenage son are also fit plant based. Majority of people on SAD, carnivore or omnivore diets seem to be plagued with poor health and loads of medications. I see all the drug commercials and know they’re not advertising to the minuscule vegan population. No lack of nutrition when eating whole foods but doctors offices and hospitals are full of meat eaters with heart disease, cancer, diabetes, etc. Wishing you good health! 😊
@@timsolomon8352 Vegan here, I take no supplements! I get my b12 from fortified oatmilk and everything else can be gotten naturally as long as you pay attention to your intake and get lots of nuts and leafy greens.
@Porook oatmilk is something processed though. I'm not knocking you at all. I'm trying to decide on what route I take health wise. I have two family members that have gone two completely different routes. One now eats a "carnivore ish" diet including some leafy greens here and there not much, and the other straight vegan. The vegan , did actually have some health benefits, like no more ear wax, stopped feeling bloated and so on. He runs marathons too, and not the small ones but across states. Only its visible that he lost alot of muscle mass, and does have to take a supplement here and there based on blood work. But overall healthy.
The second family member the carnivore, while much older, lost alot of weight, gained muscle mass, lost inflammation " no more arthritis " after years of suffering from it, blood work is great and doesn't have to take supplements. Neither eat any processed foods none. Each food they eat has only one ingredient, and that's whatever food it is. No added this or that, no bread , no cheese, and so on nothing processed.
I have inflammation issues which is why I'm looking at the two.
Joey Carbstrong is so persuasive. Best speaker.
That last speech was the most idiotic ranting I have heard in my entire life.
You did an Amazing job. Vegans are from the future (as my husband always says) - THE EVOLVED HUMANS Thank you Joey, Thank you for all you do for Animals. #veganforanimals.
The only problem is humans have been eating meat since before the start of agriculture. Not evolved, just doing the last optimal diet of our species.
@@agisler87we've always been adaptable. And our diet was mainly based on starches as archaeological evidence suggests from scale buildup in early humans. We had a great advantage from meat in the past. Eating and processing meat gave us a leg up, if nothing else, at least in convenience. Without progress, no human would ever eat a cow, do you agree? Why do you want more to stop progress? We know more about nutrition today than ever before. We are ready to take the next step and reducing harm to all animal life. They don't have to suffer. Pro tip: no one lives forever, you know? You don't need to make anyone live less than what they could.
@@globalist1990Archaeological evidence from when? Our bodies are better suited to eat meat, beef is far more bioavailable than any plant could be. We have a ph level in our stomach that is similar to most carnivores. I could go on.
Most nutritional studies are garbage, most are observational studies. They can't even show correlation despite the contradictions of media headlines.
I agree we should care about how we raise our livestock, it's a discussion that needs to be done. However like all predators we have no moral obligations to reduce the harm to our food. Nature is brutal and that will never change.
Anthropologists are now saying the whole carrion scavenger cave man theory was not accurate. Early humans were actually very plant based. Early humans are supposedly first from strictly vegan tree dwelling primates then evolving to ground dwelling apes similar to bonobo dwarf chimpanzees our closest relatives which are also strictly vegans like the ground dwelling gorillas. Actually modern man is scavenging on carrion more than any human like primate ever has and is destroying natural habitat to clear land for hunting and to grow massive amounts of soy and corn to fatten these live stock for wasteful consumption.
Just a sidenote: lying is not one of the seven deadly sins. But if it were, Katie Hopkins would be the one burning in hell in the end 😂
Thank you Joey for being a voice for the voiceless, and oh what a voice you are man. And I know you'll never stop and give up until there is animal liberation. We need people like you to wake us up to the atrocities that are happening behind our backs so that when we know better we can do better.🤟
Katie Hopkins is right: vegans always die out due to low sperm counts... survival of the fittest.
The good news: not all carnivores are barbarians & ogres. #MeatHeals