When I first got into comics, the idea of an evil Superman sounded like an interesting idea, but it has become so overused now that the normal "boy scout" Superman somehow feels fresh again.
Yes honestly I’m so sick of it. The boys did it. Invincible is doing it. Brightburn did it a couple years ago. I don’t understand why people keep watching the same “evil Superman” shtick. Oh he can kill everyone wooooow like we didn’t know. It’s not entertaining
After thinking about it a lot lately, and the fact that we have had other media depict an evil Superman in some fashion, like Brightburn, Homelander, Omni-Man for the first half at least, it's kind of eye opening to just how bitter and paranoid western society has become. We're so paranoid we don't trust in the security such a hero could bring even if they were coming from the right place, and we're so cynical we couldn't believe in a hero that could uphold truth and justice. Superman is no longer a symbol of justice, he's become a reflection of how dark and twisted we have collectively become and we're dragging an uplifting character like Superman down to our level.
@@subbinbacktoallsubbs5272 Captain America has the same basis as Superman but nobody ever said that he is boring. In fact, he is the most lovable character in the entire MCU. Superman being boring is 100% came from the writer’s incompetence.
I think it so depressing seeing a character who had such a strong personality and moral compass now be trapped in a ghetto of grimness and psychosis. This icon who was certainly integral for so many people's childhood is now a dark aggressor, who I would not feel comfortable introducing to any child. Evil Superman may have been an interesting experiment, but its an experiment that has overstayed its welcome. (Sorry for this mini rant, just kinda been bummed out this is the version we are stuck with)
THIS. Oh my gosh, so much THIS. Spot. Fucking. On. There have been instances in the comics where Superman has fiddled around with tapping into his darker sides. Probably most memorable to me is Mongul's taking him to task for holding back at the start of the massive "Our Worlds At War" crossover twenty years ago, when the two teamed up to fight the Imperiex probe which destroyed Warworld. But even then, even when Superman gives himself permission to go nova on an enemy, he still doesn't betray his core values, and he only does so long enough to get the point across; to make Darkseid understand, "Not on my watch!" or to remind Braniac, "Not on my planet!" BTW, if you've never played "Justice League Heroes" from the PS2 era, that's one of the best representations of Superman in a video game I've ever seen. :) Exploring the darker sides of heroes is an interesting thought experiment, and in the right writers' hands, it can be done correctly and well. But let's be honest here: very few writers in the business are up to the task of telling a good, normal Superman story, so why on earth would we trust them with telling a good, out-of-the-ordinary Superman story? Superman's one of the few heroes in DC's pantheon who gains nothing, and is arguably damaged as a character, whenever some writer decides he needs to be darker and edgier. Dark/Evil Superman isn't interesting except in an abstract sense, the thought experiment for "what might have been". Superman III is my least-favorite of the original four, but the fight between the twisted Superman and the good Clark Kent is my favorite on-screen battle from all four films. That, to me, is "evil Superman" done right: when he's battling his own conscience, not mowing down innocent people left and right. Cavill lost me with his portrayal in "Man of Steel", and I haven't believed in his Superman ever since. That's a problem, since Superman to viewers/readers is only as powerful as his mythology, and the power of that mythology comes from him being the paragon humanity should be looking up to, the very definition of a person wielding ultimate power without being corrupted by it. I'm pretty sure I made the same remark on the last installment, but I'm repeating it here. Jor-El's monologue to Kal-El about why he sent him to Earth in the first Superman movie is all you need to remember to write a GOOD Superman story: "They're a good people, Kal-El; they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all -- their capacity for good -- I've sent them you: my only son." Take away that light, and you take away everything the Man of Steel is. He's the one person the DC universe can rely on to NEVER betray his morals, to remain true to his word, to never compromise his promise to protect and defend the innocent. He's the Paladin by which all other heroes are judged. Evil Superman is literal kryptonite to the ideology of the character. The sooner this lazy writer's crutch is discarded, the sooner Superman and DC themselves can start recovering from the damage and reclaim Kal-El from all this bullshit. /rant off.
A little late to the party, but I will propose a question once asked about my father: if Superman is all powerful and good, then why doesn't he stop North Korea from oppressing it's people? If you couldn't tell, he's not exactly the biggest Superman fan.
"Evil Superman" is up there with "Batman can defeat literally anyone" on the list of concepts that need to go. I somehow missed the first episode of this new series so I watched them both back-to-back and I'm loving it! What do you think about an episode exploring Clark Kent and how he evolved alongside his alter ego?
I think both of those tropes exist in tandem I feel like Superman being evil is an excuse to show him fighting Batman, who of course either is able to stand his own or defeat a being like Superman despite just being a rich guy in a bat costume.
@@mayotango1317 hey dumb boy. Wonder woman killed hundreds of soldiers in WW1 and WW2. She snapped Maxwell Lord's neck to free Superman from mind control.
Unfortunately I feel like this concept may never go away comics are always a reflection of society. There seems to be this wave of let's destroy our heroes. I've never understood this.
I reckon the Evil Superman motif picked up its momentum in Superman The Animated Series, of all places. In the last couple episodes, Darkseid managed to brainwash Superman into leading a conquest over Earth, something that haunted Superman all the way into the Justice League series. A series that would ironically repeat the Evil Superman motif with the Justice Lords arc.
This was a great episode, Ian. I also hope we can get a Superman video game where he is the good guy saving the world from a scary villain such as darkseid or doomsday.
Spicy Take: The best "evil" versions of Superman are Soviet Dictator Superman, Nazi Superman, and when Superman pretends to be evil at the end of Superman vs The Elite. Injustice Superman is a fuckin cartoon villain. Hell, Soviet Communist Superman and even Nazi Superman have better moral compasses and humanity despite being raised by mass murderers and monsters rather than the Injustice one who was raised by the fuckin KENTS! Soviet Superman finds out about the gulags and purges then vaporizes Stalin with his heat vision. He then is horrified, guilt ridden, and starts crying because it was the first time he took a life. Soviet Superman then shuts down the gulags and becomes the next dictator of the Soviet Union. Nazi Superman after helping the Nazis and Fascists invade and conquer the United States comes back to Europe years later to discover the Nazis death camps which disgusts and horrifies him because he realized the role he played in all of this. Nazi Superman then tears down the Nazis concentration camps. Even versions of Superman that were raised by Stalin and the Nazis grew up to be closer to the Superman we all know and love rather than the Injustice one that murders his own friends just for arguing with him! Fuck the shitty Injustice games and comics!
"Injustice Superman is a fuckin cartoon villain." someone finally said it, Injustice Superman is not only a lazy character but a lazy evil character and a lazy version of superman.
I see someone watched the movie Red Son, rather than read it. Yeah no, Soviet Superman is much better in the book, as the movie rips out any nuance or moral ambiguity it had. Didn’t read the nazi Superman story and, while seemingly a slap in the face of the Jews who created him during WW2, it apparently ends on a good note.
@@speeddemonji9547 also read the comic book original by Mark Millar dipshit. I prefer the way Stalin dies in the animated version. The original comic book still has its place though
In the sam raimi Spiderman movie, during the green goblin's "deal" speech with Spiderman after kidnapping him, he says, "the one thing people love to see more than a hero, is to see a hero fail, or fall from grace. No matter what you do, they will eventually come to hate you in the end." And I think it kinda fits in today where people are so much obsessed with seeing characters and protagonists with unnecessary flaws and issues and how much I hate it when they equate it with character depth and "mature writing".
I just want the superman who would be willing to do the most mundane thing like getting á cat from a tree serioesly super man is willing to help those in need even if its mundane and thats why hes my favorite dc charcter
I think the only reason we have all these evil Superman stories especially when the other Justice League members are involved are so they can make Superman and Batman fight And ive heard people who aren't really into comics and only watch the movies talk like its normal and that Batman and Superman hate eachother and that they're like bitter rivals Superman and Batman might disagree on shit but they're meant to be like best friends most of the time For YEARS "Worlds Finest" was a comic series that was all about Batman and Superman teaming up and being super bros together. I grew up during the era of the DC Animated shows and yeah I think maybe Batman and Superman fought once in a while but they acted like friends most of the time. I think this also is why we have this trope now of Batman being the most overpowered hero in the DC universe who can beat anyone and anything due to prep time and strategy and the writers are like "hmmm what would show this better than Batman fighting Superman who's literally invincible most of the time?" And that's why we have so many evil Superman stories. So Batman can fight him and stop him.
Captain America represents who and what America should be. Not what it is in the current time. That's why he's not racist, sexist, homophobic, or intolerant even though he's a man from 1945. Captain america represent hope and the best of humanity in the Marvel universe. Superman represents hope in the DC universe.
@@ravenfrancis1476 There are loads of stories on everything when it comes to Super Heroes. But the main focus of the hero shouldn't be his evil version. It diminishes what makes the hero great.
I can understand his rage when he killed Joker but to kill everyone else is pure savagery lol. I’d love to see another Superman game even though I’m not a fan. We can’t end his game legacy on the 64...put some respek on his name
Good news is it wasn't the last stand alone Superman game that was Superman Returns back in 2006 . Bad news is its supposed to be pretty bad just like the film.
Lol same Like, the joker part: I understand. But everything else? Fuck no. Fascist Superman who twirls his mustache like a fucking cartoon villain is the worst slap in the face of his creators.
Remember how Superman is meant to inspire people? Well screw that, let's make him a space God Hitler! Look, I love the Injustice games, but that turn was a bit extreme
Superman is supposed to be a symbol of hope and justice. I am so DONE with WB making DC Comics dark and depressing. I'm fine with Elsowrlds but making the MAIN Superman dark I am 100% against. Same with Batman.
So you want episodic, lack of writing variety, stories that just recycle the same points? I mean, the argument of it being overused is fair, but again they either need to tone Superman down, or he will end up the villain sometimes. That's the way it is.
The True Superman! Not some bloodthirsty monstrous edge lord who wants to enslave and commit genocide with an army of loyal human soldiers dressed disturbingly like Nazi stormtroopers!
To be honest, I am tired of the evil Superman concept. I can understand Superman going through dark times such as series finale of Superman the animated series, or times when Superman's morality is challenged like the cadmus arc in justice league unlimited. I would even accept an else world story where Superman's character is broken such as the injustice game. However, I don't like the idea of Superman becoming evil. Superman may not be perfect, but I feel that he is best symbol for good among superheroes. The idea of an evil Superman is actually scary considering all the harm an evil Superman can cause throughout the world. Superman is better and safer as a symbol for good.
Plus an evil superman gives an excuse to see Batman use his infinite bank account to magically put together weapons and gizmos and one-sidedly beat up a god-like alien over and over again. I also think that since we keep seeing such concept over and over, what we're supposed to take from that is power can inevitably corrupt anyone. Needless to say, Superman is the most disrespected superhero of the show, all because his power level "lacks any PHYSICAL challenges."
Awesome video! I feel like the MCU has shown that with Captain America the world has been ready to accept true-blue heroes for quite some time now. I don't need evil Superman stories because that's what Zodd essentially is- a dark mirror to Superman.
i absolutely despise making superman evil because they would be talking about lore this character that and then they straight up ignore superman getting weaker by simply being around small chunks of kryptonite and have him knock away kryptonite spear or completely ignore it
(This rant might be long) Zack Snyder is so invested in Superman being a TERRIFYING ALL-POWERFUL GOD. He always portrays Clark as a Jesus imagery with not so subtle biblical references all the time and Clark will eventually be corrupted once Lois Lane dies, according to Zack’s “vision”. Clark is not a naive impressionable boy who has no sense of morality. Clark is a grown man who lived on Earth for 30+ years. He knows the concept of humanity and morality. He knows that he can be a force for good because that’s what Jo and Martha Kent taught him. The point of Superman is about proving Lex Luthor wrong. Zack did everything he could to prove Lex Luthor right. It’s depressing to see general audience feels terrified of Superman while supporting Lex Luthor’s ideology everywhere because of his recent adaptations. Not to mention that DC did it for the millionth time about bastardizing Superman in order to prop up Batman as better superhero.
@@616Entertainment “If God is all powerful, then he cannot be all good. And if he is all good, he cannot be all powerful.” The entire Superman character arc in Snyderverse is based on this one line. Snyder always sees Clark as a god and god cannot be powerful if he is not evil. But we already know that this statement is wrong because the MCU succeeds at making Thor, an extremely powerful god, a true hero through and through (That’s why he’s “worthy” of Mjolnir). Thor is still in the debate of “The strongest MCU heroes” until this day so the whole being powerful = being evil thing is completely bullshit.
Another fantastic vid my guy. Just love the way you paint the picture with your words, & evoke feelings in yourself and your viewers. As always keep up the good work and peace love and happiness
I want a comment about video games involving Superman as the focus like Arkham Batman games. I'm sick of the excuses as to why developers refuse to make a Superman game. "He's too powerful" -Prototype -Infamous -God of War -Spiderman -Hulk games -Devil May Cry -Ninja Gaiden I can go on with the list of games where you play as a literal GOD or demi god or in comparison to the enemies in their universe are Gods. Spiderman is strong, and fast as hell....thugs with guns, can't touch this boy. When the player gets beaten up, that doesn't transfer to the story for the character.
I love the red son!!! It’s my favorite graphic novel!When the DC animated version of the red son came out in 2020 I was excited to watch it!I do understand you bro and get your point.You just want the original version of Superman.I can’t believe since 2006 the last Superman came out in the Xbox 360.
The problem with evil Superman is that it isn't actually saying interesting at all. People only think that because it's divergent from the classic character but something isn't interesting just because it's not what you expect, it's about what the narrative is saying, and evil Superman has nothing interesting to say at its base. "What if someone with extreme power used that power for bad? Turns out it would be bad!" is like the most boring, single-layered thing I can think of. The only type of person who thinks evil Superman is cool are people that think the most important thing about Superman is how powerful he is, which in my opinion are not people who should have any creative say in the character.
The entire point of Superman is that he is special. Not in terms of power, but in his humanity. It's so easy to have someone be bad and abuse near limitless power. But a man that choses good, no matter if he is strong or weak... That is special. That is why he works against Luthor. Having Evil Superman is boring. Give any thug Superman's powers and you still just get a thug, but now with power. Take Superman's powers.... You have Superman. And that makes him interesting.
@@dancorneanu9144 I can’t remember the quote or where it came from but someone said something like “Clark would be a hero no matter which planet he was on” and that always resonated with me
@@616Entertainment surprised superman conquering earth in the name of Darkseid in the animated show didn't make your video. The crazy part is, there's no time travel to undo it, and no alt dimension to undo it. The show ends with superman having to prove he's not to be feared. Real stakes.
A thing to point out here is that the idea of an evil Superman isn’t even remotely new. The concept goes back to before I was born, in 1964, when the 29th issue of Justice League of America comics introduced Ultraman. He was the evil version of Kal El that lived on an alternate Earth (“Earth 3”), and headed up the evil version of the JLA (called the Crime Syndicate of America). There were evil versions of Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, etc., too! At the time it was considered new and edgy. These days it’s just boring and lazy writing. EDIT: by the way, there's MORE evil Supes on the way. You know those animated direct-to-video movies DC puts out on DVD and Blu-ray? Today saw the release of the latest one: "Batman: The Long Halloween, Part 1." After the second part of TLH comes out on 7/27, the next DC Universe Animated Original Movie being produced will be a version of...Injustice. Yup.
@@616Entertainment - yeah, but I was disappointed that you never once mentioned just how far back the concept goes! The oldest thing you showed vis-a-vis a "bad" Supes was the junkyard fight of Chris Reeve vs. Chris Reeve...and only a second or two of that! You showed a scene from Super Friends, but didn't even show Bizarro (who was introduced as a "mirror image Superman" in 1958). 🙃
I especially hate the trope because it often turns Superman into the antithesis of what he’s supposed to represent, always in some super contrived way. Jerry and Joe did not create this character just to be turned into a tool for fascism.
I'd love to see episodes about The Death and Return of Superman storyline and Superman: The Animated Series as well as some segments about Smallville. Ty again for the show and I'm glad someone out there enjoys the character as much as I do. It feels like some people dump on him and call him wimpy. Hes an awesome character and I love what you're doing. Ty again.
I love Man of Steel! That’s the first Superman movie I saw in the movie theater besides Batman vs Superman in 2016.The Snyder cut of the Justice league is coming out next Tuesday March 16.
Was literally talking about this with friends last week. I'm so over it! Superman needs a new cinematic golden age where he's nothing but the blue boyscout again. It's a much needed change of pace from the way overdone "he is a god among men and could kill us all" shit we've been fed for the last decade
In the Morden world people have gotten use to being let down by those they look up to real life so they insist on Projecting that onto fiction but characters like Superman are not meant to show life as it is but as it could be. What is truly sad is this seems to be the only story some want to tell with Superman these days. Not just in the main DC universe and else worlds but also in indie comics with Superman analogues like Homelander and The Plutonian, even films like Brightburn. It's quickly becoming tiresome and people are getting sick of it so hopefully it will die down after a while. I look forward your video on Superman games and for another suggestion perhaps you do a video discussing the different between the pre crisis and post crisis versions of the character. Maybe one talking about all the different else world tales of Superman. Another good video.
I agree. Time to pump the breaks on evil Superman. I think it was an interesting idea, but has been over used at this point. I wouldn’t mind it returning in the future, but it needs a long vacation first.
As Corny or JR would say‐ how can I miss you if you won't go away? It sounds like Evil Supes needs to go away for at least a decade. I'm not a big fan but when all the portrayals tend towards one direction it gets old.
Injustice Gods Among Us: Joker tricks "Superman" into murdering his wife and unborn child which triggers a nuclear bomb blowing up Metropolis killing over 11 million people. This "Superman" then immediately flies and punches his chest through Joker's chest instantly killing him. Then this "Superman" or really Homelander with an S on his chest becomes Stalin and builds gulags and armies of stormtroopers to rule the planet with an iron fist. This "Superman" engages in a 5 year civil war against Batman killing many of his own friends that he's know for years. God this story is garbage! Emperor Joker: Joker tricks Mxyzptlk into give him all of his Godlike powers to control and manipulate all of reality which he uses to kill Batman over and over again and twist existence into his own image. Joker snaps his fingers killing everyone Superman has ever known and love including Lois, Jimmy, his parents, the Justice League, and Batman again trying to break Superman's will and mind to force him to kill. Superman never gives in and never gives up and never compromises his morals or kills the Joker in order to save all of existence even though Batman himself was broken and wanted Joker to die. Joker with just a snap of his fingers unleashed everything that could possible break the Man of Steel only to strengthen Superman's resolve which inspires all of his friends. This story by the way is canon and shows why Superman is still the greatest superhero of all time. Superman defeated the Joker with Godlike powers to control existence itself and despite losing Lois, his parents, and all of his friends, Superman never gave up or lost hope and continued to resist Emperor Joker. Superman is the ultimate symbol of Hope and all that is good. Throughout this story Joker's is continuously humiliated by Superman who refuses to accept the reality Joker created and his defiance is a rallying cry for the other heroes to rediscover their hopes. Batman is killed and resurrected over and over again having to live with the memories of torment and pain after being killed and resurrected so many times by Emperor Joker. Batman is literally Joker's chew toy throughout this entire story and the rest of the Justice League are transformed into hilarious caricatures of themselves like Wonder Woman being a housewife, Aquaman being a literal fish, Martian Manhunter becoming shorter resembling Marvin the Martian from Looney Tunes, and the Flash being fat and obsessed with junk food. There was a point near the end where Joker gave Superman a chance to truly kill him ending his rule over existence which Superman outright refused because it's what Joker would want and this was after Joker killed Lois and the entire Justice League. This pissed off Joker who decided to straight up kill Superman but cannot because he's losing his grip on his powers. Joker decides to destroy the entire universe so Superman on his own needs to discover the rules that Joker plays by in order for him to lose Mxyzptlk's powers before it's too late. Superman being the greatest hero of all time beats Godlike Joker at his own game using his wits and exploiting Joker's obsession and insecurities with the Batman causing Joker to doubt his own ability. Joker can't get rid of Batman no matter how many times he kills him or wills him out of existence because Joker's life and existence is meaningless without Batman which causes the Joker to lose his powers which return to Mxyzptlk and he, Superman, and Spectre repair and fix the entire Universe back to what it was before this whole horrifying event. Batman however had to live with all the trauma of being killed in so many gruesome and painful ways and is literally a broken shell of a man. Superman being the true hero and friend that he is has the Spectre take all of that traumatizing PTSD out of Batman and implant them into Joker who is drooling on the floor at Arkham Asylum. And Batman fanboys still think Batman is better than Superman LOL. Batman not only lost to the Joker but lost his morals and became insane wanting Superman to kill Joker to end it all. This story proves Superman is truly incorruptible and this story came out in the year 2000! And there are people who still think Injustice is a good portrayal of Superman and the Justice League? LOL It's a horribly written story that perverts and bastardized the characters that everyone knows and loves for the sake of being dark and edgy.
Words cannot fathom how much I despise injustice and God bless whoever wrote emporer joker, love the fact it was written a decade before injustice so it has far more legitimacy.
This is kinda like "The Court of Owls" in Batman. They've been showing up more recently and they're rumored to be an enemy in the new "Gotham Knights" batman game.
Personally I would like a Superman game similar to Taletell Batman. If not I like for Rocksteady to make a Man of Steel game and maybe have it share with the Arkham universe.
Great video! I’d love to see more Superman content. Some topics I’d like to see about our great vill...I mean hero are: Superman: The Animated Series (huge DCAU fan here) Man of Steel Death and Return of Superman (comics) Video games in general Movie ranking Top 5-10 story arcs from the comics Pretty run of the mill stuff but I’m a sucker for content revolving around comic book characters since that’s my thing.
I had a whole thing decided against. Good or evil it doesn't matter at this point. It would be better to stick with one multiverse version instead of switching between so many version of the same character just told a different way.
Problem with evil Superman in Zack’s films is that they didn’t do enough to make his fall all that shocking. For all the talk of hope in Man of Steel, they established Superman as an angry psycho who needs a girlfriend to keep him from going nuts. Hardly inspirational
I’m in the minority of being someone who loves the Justice League movie. Towards the end when we Superman sneaks on Steppenwolfe and says “I’m a fan of truth but I’m also a fan of justice” and just beats the shit out of him with punches and heat vision, I cried the first time I saw it. And every rewatch I get misty eyed and emotional. Bc THAT’S who Superman is and what he’s all about
What Hack Snyder never got about Superman he definitely set back Superman Henry Cavill could have been amazing but needed to be written and directed by someone else
The worst version of Superman for me has to go to Millerverse Superman. Every damn time Frank Miller writes Superman he writes him as a violent sociopath who sucks up to authority no matter how evil it is! This is just disgusting because the real Superman would never, never, ever, ever do what he does in the Millerverse! It’s obvious to me Frank Miller dose not give a s**t about Superman and wants to lambast him every Chance he gets. I personally feel The Dark Knight Returns is why people have such a low opinion on Superman, it’s one of the reasons why I hate that book and anything that involves the Millerverse! All the abysmal versions of Superman come right back to The dark Knight Returns. I will give injustice a pass because Superman had a motivation for turning evil, so what the hell was Frank Millers excuse beyond him hating Superman with a passion?!
Frank Miller's career highlight is The Dark Knight Returns. Now obviously that's not a shining moment for Superman, but it is a fantastic Batman story. I point it out as Miller's peak because other than that and maybe Sin City... The dude sucks.
Let's not forget how jerk Superman is rampant in the field of animation in both the Harley Quinn cartoon AND DC Super Hero Girls, particularly the Lauren Faust reboot, Superman is an egotistical jerk.
I recall this one Tweet that said we've gotten to the point where Evil Superman is so common that Superman as himself is the subversion. And yes, it is overdone, irritatingly so, because DC or WB keeps getting people handling Superman from an extremely cynical point of view because to them and apparently the Batfans, Superman is only interesting when he's evil or just Batman with powers: "gritty and grimdark". All it tells me is that they've become creatively bankrupt with the character. Also, to correct you a bit about Spider-Man, something like that actually did happen to him in canon and it wasn't when he had the Black Suit. It was during the fallout of the original Clone Saga when Peter was told he was the clone and Ben Reilly the real Spider-Man, so Peter went through a "phase" where he tried to distance himself from humanity and started calling himself The Spider
Preach my good sir. You have said everything I think about the man of steel. I'd love to know more about your collection, what was your first figure you picked up? What made you get all the different ones that you got?
@@616Entertainment yeah fair, but from what I can gather, he’s more of a comedic character nowadays. That rendition is still really cool though. If DC want to do evil superman, they should just go with a Bizzaro
Lol. The entire DCEU being Elseworlds is the most Snyder thing possible. Also, where’d he say that? Give me a link. I’ve never heard him say that, ever.
Agreed 100%. Enough evil Superman, enough dark Superman. Justice League wasn't a perfect movie like you said but I liked it just because we got a Superman that feels like Superman. I don't have high hopes for the Snyder Cut cause I haven't enjoyed his take on the character but I'll go into it with an open mind. Loving Superman & Lois though.
Bruce Timm wrote evil Superman properly that was the best way it was written Justice League episode A Better World and the Cadmus arc from Justice League Unlimited
Oh, my!!! I was just thinking the same thing, there are a lot more characters that could do a better job as tragic villains, there's so many better stories to tell, enough with bad sups, He is the symbol of hope, the heart of the justice league (Bats being its brain and Wonder Woman its soul) just give back my holy trinity, the ol' good Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman super team.
I absolutely agree with almost everything you said. I absolutely hate the fact that batman and superman always have to fight or fight most of the time. And superman always has to be the bad guy ( except for red son). I mean look at the 2003 justice league cartoon.
I loved in the new Animaniacs when you see a tour of the Warner Brothers studios. Tour Guide: That's where they filmed Batman... Tour Group: (excited) Oooo Tour Guide:... vs Superman Tour Group: (disappointed) Oh
If rumours are true we’re about to get a Michael B Jordan supes...I would be surprised if they went down the evil supes with that...might be an elseworld take...could be cool
watching this made me say "anyone can be superman" as much i've grew up around marvel i love this as for suggestions to get it off your chest completely superman video games on how it inspired you.. superman N64 doesn't have to be mention haha but if you can't do that i'll still enjoy the superman videos
As someone who is not a big Superman fan, I never understood why evil Superman has been so prevalent in media the last decade or so. Like, at first, yes the most powerful being on the planet suddenly turning against it would be horrifying, but in a universe where the universe has been threatened by literal gods on multiple occasions and Clark being probably one of the kindest and gentlest hearts in the DCU, evil Superman is an odd trope to fall back on so many times. One thing that has always encapsulated Superman as a character for me was actually from the Justice League cartoon. The "World of Cardboard" speech when he's fighting Darkseid, to me, shows the type of character he is meant to be. Someone with so much power that he knows that if he lost control he could really hurt or kill someone, but refuses to allow himself to lose that control over himself simply because he swore to be a hero. That is Superman to me, and an evil Superman is just something I have a a hard time wrapping my head around in any context, honestly.
One Punch Man is a good example of how you can create an nigh invulnerable character and still make him compelling without resorting to a morality shift.
I also loved Man of Steel. People forget Superman has killed Zod in almost adaption. Comics and Superman 2. Honestly, I don’t get the need to make Superman evil. That’s pretty much the purpose of Zod. To be the evil Kryptonian.
I completely agree, he isn't more interesting when he is evil, bring him back as the hero we love. I want to see the kind, smiling Superman who will defend everyone because it's what is right.
Since we’re getting the Snyder cut. Do you think it’s time that they take superman four Clean it up and try to show what it was intended to be like they did with the Donner cut of superman two?
No, not really. That movie is decades old and I can’t imagine there’s really any sizable audience that is excited about that. I’d much rather they take their time and effort and put it into new stuff.
I think also the reason why Superman’s almost always bound to do turn evil is because some people just aren’t into wholesome clean-cut heroes on the straight and narrow, they want those edgy, gritty, anti-heroes like Punisher, Spawn, and more In other words, why cheer for John Cena or Hulk Hogan when people want Hollywood Hogan or the Doctor of Thuganomics?
"..edgy, gritty heroes like Punisher, Spawn, & more." Exactly, and THOSE GUYS ALREADY EXIST! Lol. It's just lazy writing, it's horrible. It's the antithesis of understanding his character.
Bring back the age of innocence superman. He is done waay better in the animated world. Maybe have a review of your fave animated depictions of him? Birthright, red son etc. I love watching youtubers talk about good ol' Kal!!!
Real good. After Injustice, it seemed that worldbreaker heel Superman was the go-to for almost everything. It’s to the point where not only does “evil Superman” not interest me, but something like Homelander from The Boys or Brightburn just don’t stick out as interesting to me at all. Like the concept is “what if Superman were BAD” and I’m here like “he’s basically been bad in popular media for YEARS” haha. You know what would be shocking? A video game where Superman is just Superman.
At least Homelander has an excuse why he's bad: he was treated more as lab experiment than an actual being growing up, and thus he became cruel and incapable of empathy. The guy who created the entire superhero program in the series told him to his face "you should have been raised by a loving family." Brightburn was just a wasted opportunity, since kid goes evil not because he wants to but because he's programmed to by his ship.
Not entirely, kinda letting a bunch of it stack up and then I'll jump into a ton while I'm cleaning the house or something. The Agent of Batman pitch was incredible, though, and I'm sad that we'll never have that book in our hands.
Yeah that summarizes it pretty well for me. I mean for crying out loud, even Superman equivalents in other stories are evil by now. That's just annoying.
In my opinion, the only legitimately reasonable way classic heroes like Batman and Superman could ever be truly “evil” is if they simply stopped helping/saving people deliberately and intentionally. I liked MoS, but what bothered me about BvS’s Batman is that he was actively intent on killing, which is gross mischaracterisation on Snyder’s part. I don’t think Batman would be willing to kill Superman even if he hated him, but he would be indifferent enough to not stop someone else from killing him. And the same goes for Superman.
@@616Entertainment True, that’s why I admire the team behind the animated DCverse BTAS, STAS, JL, and JLU. They truly understood heroism and how altruistic characters deal with their own individual issues and interpersonal conflicts.
When I first got into comics, the idea of an evil Superman sounded like an interesting idea, but it has become so overused now that the normal "boy scout" Superman somehow feels fresh again.
Exaaaaaactly.
Yes honestly I’m so sick of it. The boys did it. Invincible is doing it. Brightburn did it a couple years ago. I don’t understand why people keep watching the same “evil Superman” shtick. Oh he can kill everyone wooooow like we didn’t know. It’s not entertaining
@@ShakaHapa Yep it's gotten pretty boring at this point
@@ShakaHapa “The Boys did it. Invincible did it. Brightburn did it.”
You forgot the most important one of them all, “The Snyderverse did it.”
@@nont18411 and the Snyder-Verse will do it again if it continues.
People have become so cynical they can't handle the idea of a character with moral integrity.
That's a good way to put it.
After thinking about it a lot lately, and the fact that we have had other media depict an evil Superman in some fashion, like Brightburn, Homelander, Omni-Man for the first half at least, it's kind of eye opening to just how bitter and paranoid western society has become. We're so paranoid we don't trust in the security such a hero could bring even if they were coming from the right place, and we're so cynical we couldn't believe in a hero that could uphold truth and justice.
Superman is no longer a symbol of justice, he's become a reflection of how dark and twisted we have collectively become and we're dragging an uplifting character like Superman down to our level.
@@cooljim1376 You forgot Knightmare Superman.
@@subbinbacktoallsubbs5272 Couldn't be more wrong.
@@subbinbacktoallsubbs5272 Captain America has the same basis as Superman but nobody ever said that he is boring. In fact, he is the most lovable character in the entire MCU. Superman being boring is 100% came from the writer’s incompetence.
To me Superman & Lois has knocked it out of the ballpark more than any of the films in the last 20 years, Can’t wait for more.
I think it so depressing seeing a character who had such a strong personality and moral compass now be trapped in a ghetto of grimness and psychosis. This icon who was certainly integral for so many people's childhood is now a dark aggressor, who I would not feel comfortable introducing to any child.
Evil Superman may have been an interesting experiment, but its an experiment that has overstayed its welcome.
(Sorry for this mini rant, just kinda been bummed out this is the version we are stuck with)
THIS. Oh my gosh, so much THIS. Spot. Fucking. On.
There have been instances in the comics where Superman has fiddled around with tapping into his darker sides. Probably most memorable to me is Mongul's taking him to task for holding back at the start of the massive "Our Worlds At War" crossover twenty years ago, when the two teamed up to fight the Imperiex probe which destroyed Warworld. But even then, even when Superman gives himself permission to go nova on an enemy, he still doesn't betray his core values, and he only does so long enough to get the point across; to make Darkseid understand, "Not on my watch!" or to remind Braniac, "Not on my planet!"
BTW, if you've never played "Justice League Heroes" from the PS2 era, that's one of the best representations of Superman in a video game I've ever seen. :)
Exploring the darker sides of heroes is an interesting thought experiment, and in the right writers' hands, it can be done correctly and well. But let's be honest here: very few writers in the business are up to the task of telling a good, normal Superman story, so why on earth would we trust them with telling a good, out-of-the-ordinary Superman story?
Superman's one of the few heroes in DC's pantheon who gains nothing, and is arguably damaged as a character, whenever some writer decides he needs to be darker and edgier. Dark/Evil Superman isn't interesting except in an abstract sense, the thought experiment for "what might have been". Superman III is my least-favorite of the original four, but the fight between the twisted Superman and the good Clark Kent is my favorite on-screen battle from all four films. That, to me, is "evil Superman" done right: when he's battling his own conscience, not mowing down innocent people left and right. Cavill lost me with his portrayal in "Man of Steel", and I haven't believed in his Superman ever since. That's a problem, since Superman to viewers/readers is only as powerful as his mythology, and the power of that mythology comes from him being the paragon humanity should be looking up to, the very definition of a person wielding ultimate power without being corrupted by it.
I'm pretty sure I made the same remark on the last installment, but I'm repeating it here. Jor-El's monologue to Kal-El about why he sent him to Earth in the first Superman movie is all you need to remember to write a GOOD Superman story: "They're a good people, Kal-El; they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all -- their capacity for good -- I've sent them you: my only son."
Take away that light, and you take away everything the Man of Steel is. He's the one person the DC universe can rely on to NEVER betray his morals, to remain true to his word, to never compromise his promise to protect and defend the innocent. He's the Paladin by which all other heroes are judged. Evil Superman is literal kryptonite to the ideology of the character. The sooner this lazy writer's crutch is discarded, the sooner Superman and DC themselves can start recovering from the damage and reclaim Kal-El from all this bullshit.
/rant off.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Excellent writeup, thanks for sharing your thoughts!
A little late to the party, but I will propose a question once asked about my father: if Superman is all powerful and good, then why doesn't he stop North Korea from oppressing it's people? If you couldn't tell, he's not exactly the biggest Superman fan.
"Evil Superman" is up there with "Batman can defeat literally anyone" on the list of concepts that need to go.
I somehow missed the first episode of this new series so I watched them both back-to-back and I'm loving it!
What do you think about an episode exploring Clark Kent and how he evolved alongside his alter ego?
Also the idea of Wonder Woman as a bloodly killer.
I think both of those tropes exist in tandem
I feel like Superman being evil is an excuse to show him fighting Batman, who of course either is able to stand his own or defeat a being like Superman despite just being a rich guy in a bat costume.
@@mayotango1317 hey dumb boy. Wonder woman killed hundreds of soldiers in WW1 and WW2. She snapped Maxwell Lord's neck to free Superman from mind control.
@@Yes_Fantasy_419 Idiot. Is Hippolyta the Wonder Woman from World War 2.
@@mayotango1317 i'm mean she does carry around a sword that can cut through anything doesn't really help her case
Unfortunately I feel like this concept may never go away comics are always a reflection of society. There seems to be this wave of let's destroy our heroes. I've never understood this.
People are cynical and self-hating these days. They tear down the good in the world because they themselves do not believe anything good can exist.
That's why Watchmen shows why the real world and humanity doesn't deserve Superman and superheroes.
I reckon the Evil Superman motif picked up its momentum in Superman The Animated Series, of all places. In the last couple episodes, Darkseid managed to brainwash Superman into leading a conquest over Earth, something that haunted Superman all the way into the Justice League series. A series that would ironically repeat the Evil Superman motif with the Justice Lords arc.
Who needs new Superman game when there is Superman 64, the greatest game of all time!
This was a great episode, Ian. I also hope we can get a Superman video game where he is the good guy saving the world from a scary villain such as darkseid or doomsday.
Dude, if only, man.
Spicy Take: The best "evil" versions of Superman are Soviet Dictator Superman, Nazi Superman, and when Superman pretends to be evil at the end of Superman vs The Elite.
Injustice Superman is a fuckin cartoon villain. Hell, Soviet Communist Superman and even Nazi Superman have better moral compasses and humanity despite being raised by mass murderers and monsters rather than the Injustice one who was raised by the fuckin KENTS! Soviet Superman finds out about the gulags and purges then vaporizes Stalin with his heat vision. He then is horrified, guilt ridden, and starts crying because it was the first time he took a life. Soviet Superman then shuts down the gulags and becomes the next dictator of the Soviet Union. Nazi Superman after helping the Nazis and Fascists invade and conquer the United States comes back to Europe years later to discover the Nazis death camps which disgusts and horrifies him because he realized the role he played in all of this. Nazi Superman then tears down the Nazis concentration camps. Even versions of Superman that were raised by Stalin and the Nazis grew up to be closer to the Superman we all know and love rather than the Injustice one that murders his own friends just for arguing with him! Fuck the shitty Injustice games and comics!
"Injustice Superman is a fuckin cartoon villain." someone finally said it, Injustice Superman is not only a lazy character but a lazy evil character and a lazy version of superman.
I see someone watched the movie Red Son, rather than read it.
Yeah no, Soviet Superman is much better in the book, as the movie rips out any nuance or moral ambiguity it had.
Didn’t read the nazi Superman story and, while seemingly a slap in the face of the Jews who created him during WW2, it apparently ends on a good note.
@@speeddemonji9547 also read the comic book original by Mark Millar dipshit. I prefer the way Stalin dies in the animated version. The original comic book still has its place though
In the sam raimi Spiderman movie, during the green goblin's "deal" speech with Spiderman after kidnapping him, he says,
"the one thing people love to see more than a hero, is to see a hero fail, or fall from grace. No matter what you do, they will eventually come to hate you in the end."
And I think it kinda fits in today where people are so much obsessed with seeing characters and protagonists with unnecessary flaws and issues and how much I hate it when they equate it with character depth and "mature writing".
I just want the superman who would be willing to do the most mundane thing like getting á cat from a tree serioesly super man is willing to help those in need even if its mundane and thats why hes my favorite dc charcter
In the near future I hope you can talk about Smallville the series such a great portrayal of Clark in his teenager years in my opinion
I hope Superman and Lois keeps Supes good throughout the show's run. 🤞
Things are looking good!
I think the only reason we have all these evil Superman stories especially when the other Justice League members are involved are so they can make Superman and Batman fight
And ive heard people who aren't really into comics and only watch the movies talk like its normal and that Batman and Superman hate eachother and that they're like bitter rivals
Superman and Batman might disagree on shit but they're meant to be like best friends most of the time
For YEARS "Worlds Finest" was a comic series that was all about Batman and Superman teaming up and being super bros together. I grew up during the era of the DC Animated shows and yeah I think maybe Batman and Superman fought once in a while but they acted like friends most of the time.
I think this also is why we have this trope now of Batman being the most overpowered hero in the DC universe who can beat anyone and anything due to prep time and strategy and the writers are like "hmmm what would show this better than Batman fighting Superman who's literally invincible most of the time?" And that's why we have so many evil Superman stories. So Batman can fight him and stop him.
When I have a child I’m showing them all Star Superman first and Batman/Superman public enemies
They figured it out with Captain America. The guy wears the American flag in a divisive time. I don't understand how they can't do it with Superman.
Lack of effort, belief, and creative/talented teams. =/
Captain America represents who and what America should be. Not what it is in the current time. That's why he's not racist, sexist, homophobic, or intolerant even though he's a man from 1945. Captain america represent hope and the best of humanity in the Marvel universe. Superman represents hope in the DC universe.
I wouldn't be so sure, man. There are loads of stories that involve making Cap "edgier"
@@ravenfrancis1476 There are loads of stories on everything when it comes to Super Heroes. But the main focus of the hero shouldn't be his evil version. It diminishes what makes the hero great.
I can understand his rage when he killed Joker but to kill everyone else is pure savagery lol. I’d love to see another Superman game even though I’m not a fan. We can’t end his game legacy on the 64...put some respek on his name
Good news is it wasn't the last stand alone Superman game that was Superman Returns back in 2006 . Bad news is its supposed to be pretty bad just like the film.
Lol same
Like, the joker part: I understand.
But everything else? Fuck no. Fascist Superman who twirls his mustache like a fucking cartoon villain is the worst slap in the face of his creators.
Remember how Superman is meant to inspire people?
Well screw that, let's make him a space God Hitler!
Look, I love the Injustice games, but that turn was a bit extreme
Superman is supposed to be a symbol of hope and justice. I am so DONE with WB making DC Comics dark and depressing. I'm fine with Elsowrlds but making the MAIN Superman dark I am 100% against. Same with Batman.
I'm with you, dude. (obviously lol)
So you want episodic, lack of writing variety, stories that just recycle the same points?
I mean, the argument of it being overused is fair, but again they either need to tone Superman down, or he will end up the villain sometimes. That's the way it is.
@@rainofkhandaq6678 That's not even close to true. And how you wind up on that conclusion.... I have no idea.
I just want a classic Superman, a hopeful Superman.
Exaaaaaaaactly.
The True Superman! Not some bloodthirsty monstrous edge lord who wants to enslave and commit genocide with an army of loyal human soldiers dressed disturbingly like Nazi stormtroopers!
Injustice animated trailer just dropped using this video as emotional support. So much pain why couldn't they just do a kingdom come adaption???.
I don't know, man. I do not know.
I’m excited to hear you talk about the animated series tbh. Was always more of a Batman guy but looking back the Superman show was so good man
To be honest, I am tired of the evil Superman concept. I can understand Superman going through dark times such as series finale of Superman the animated series, or times when Superman's morality is challenged like the cadmus arc in justice league unlimited. I would even accept an else world story where Superman's character is broken such as the injustice game. However, I don't like the idea of Superman becoming evil. Superman may not be perfect, but I feel that he is best symbol for good among superheroes. The idea of an evil Superman is actually scary considering all the harm an evil Superman can cause throughout the world. Superman is better and safer as a symbol for good.
Plus an evil superman gives an excuse to see Batman use his infinite bank account to magically put together weapons and gizmos and one-sidedly beat up a god-like alien over and over again. I also think that since we keep seeing such concept over and over, what we're supposed to take from that is power can inevitably corrupt anyone. Needless to say, Superman is the most disrespected superhero of the show, all because his power level "lacks any PHYSICAL challenges."
Awesome video! I feel like the MCU has shown that with Captain America the world has been ready to accept true-blue heroes for quite some time now. I don't need evil Superman stories because that's what Zodd essentially is- a dark mirror to Superman.
i absolutely despise making superman evil
because they would be talking about lore this character that
and then they straight up ignore superman getting weaker by simply being around small chunks of kryptonite
and have him knock away kryptonite spear
or completely ignore it
(This rant might be long)
Zack Snyder is so invested in Superman being a TERRIFYING ALL-POWERFUL GOD. He always portrays Clark as a Jesus imagery with not so subtle biblical references all the time and Clark will eventually be corrupted once Lois Lane dies, according to Zack’s “vision”. Clark is not a naive impressionable boy who has no sense of morality. Clark is a grown man who lived on Earth for 30+ years. He knows the concept of humanity and morality. He knows that he can be a force for good because that’s what Jo and Martha Kent taught him. The point of Superman is about proving Lex Luthor wrong. Zack did everything he could to prove Lex Luthor right. It’s depressing to see general audience feels terrified of Superman while supporting Lex Luthor’s ideology everywhere because of his recent adaptations. Not to mention that DC did it for the millionth time about bastardizing Superman in order to prop up Batman as better superhero.
You and I agree on many things.
@@616Entertainment “If God is all powerful, then he cannot be all good. And if he is all good, he cannot be all powerful.”
The entire Superman character arc in Snyderverse is based on this one line.
Snyder always sees Clark as a god and god cannot be powerful if he is not evil. But we already know that this statement is wrong because the MCU succeeds at making Thor, an extremely powerful god, a true hero through and through (That’s why he’s “worthy” of Mjolnir). Thor is still in the debate of “The strongest MCU heroes” until this day so the whole being powerful = being evil thing is completely bullshit.
@@nont18411 except Clark doesn't want to be worshipped, he just wants to help people, unfortunately Snyder's Superman lives in a post 9/11 era.
LOVE this series! Can't wait for more to come. And I agree evil Superman is a tired old trope.
Problem with Evil Superman? Simple. He exists.
I think I give it a pretty fair assessment.
Another fantastic vid my guy. Just love the way you paint the picture with your words, & evoke feelings in yourself and your viewers. As always keep up the good work and peace love and happiness
I want a comment about video games involving Superman as the focus like Arkham Batman games. I'm sick of the excuses as to why developers refuse to make a Superman game. "He's too powerful"
-Prototype
-Infamous
-God of War
-Spiderman
-Hulk games
-Devil May Cry
-Ninja Gaiden
I can go on with the list of games where you play as a literal GOD or demi god or in comparison to the enemies in their universe are Gods. Spiderman is strong, and fast as hell....thugs with guns, can't touch this boy. When the player gets beaten up, that doesn't transfer to the story for the character.
I love the red son!!! It’s my favorite graphic novel!When the DC animated version of the red son came out in 2020 I was excited to watch it!I do understand you bro and get your point.You just want the original version of Superman.I can’t believe since 2006 the last Superman came out in the Xbox 360.
The problem with evil Superman is that it isn't actually saying interesting at all. People only think that because it's divergent from the classic character but something isn't interesting just because it's not what you expect, it's about what the narrative is saying, and evil Superman has nothing interesting to say at its base. "What if someone with extreme power used that power for bad? Turns out it would be bad!" is like the most boring, single-layered thing I can think of.
The only type of person who thinks evil Superman is cool are people that think the most important thing about Superman is how powerful he is, which in my opinion are not people who should have any creative say in the character.
The entire point of Superman is that he is special. Not in terms of power, but in his humanity. It's so easy to have someone be bad and abuse near limitless power. But a man that choses good, no matter if he is strong or weak... That is special. That is why he works against Luthor. Having Evil Superman is boring. Give any thug Superman's powers and you still just get a thug, but now with power. Take Superman's powers.... You have Superman. And that makes him interesting.
@@dancorneanu9144 I can’t remember the quote or where it came from but someone said something like “Clark would be a hero no matter which planet he was on” and that always resonated with me
But did you like superman the animated series final episode: legacy?
I'm actually watching through all of them again.
@@616Entertainment surprised superman conquering earth in the name of Darkseid in the animated show didn't make your video.
The crazy part is, there's no time travel to undo it, and no alt dimension to undo it.
The show ends with superman having to prove he's not to be feared. Real stakes.
A thing to point out here is that the idea of an evil Superman isn’t even remotely new. The concept goes back to before I was born, in 1964, when the 29th issue of Justice League of America comics introduced Ultraman. He was the evil version of Kal El that lived on an alternate Earth (“Earth 3”), and headed up the evil version of the JLA (called the Crime Syndicate of America). There were evil versions of Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, etc., too! At the time it was considered new and edgy. These days it’s just boring and lazy writing. EDIT: by the way, there's MORE evil Supes on the way. You know those animated direct-to-video movies DC puts out on DVD and Blu-ray? Today saw the release of the latest one: "Batman: The Long Halloween, Part 1." After the second part of TLH comes out on 7/27, the next DC Universe Animated Original Movie being produced will be a version of...Injustice. Yup.
I do point that out, throughout the entirety of the video. Lol
@@616Entertainment - yeah, but I was disappointed that you never once mentioned just how far back the concept goes! The oldest thing you showed vis-a-vis a "bad" Supes was the junkyard fight of Chris Reeve vs. Chris Reeve...and only a second or two of that! You showed a scene from Super Friends, but didn't even show Bizarro (who was introduced as a "mirror image Superman" in 1958). 🙃
Bizarro isn’t evil Superman. Bizarro is his own being.
@@616Entertainment I never said otherwise!
I especially hate the trope because it often turns Superman into the antithesis of what he’s supposed to represent, always in some super contrived way.
Jerry and Joe did not create this character just to be turned into a tool for fascism.
Precisely.
evil superman is NOT superman
Seriously Superman being evil or an idiot is making it very hard for me to get into the character when I’m just now starting to get into DC
I'd love to see episodes about The Death and Return of Superman storyline and Superman: The Animated Series as well as some segments about Smallville. Ty again for the show and I'm glad someone out there enjoys the character as much as I do. It feels like some people dump on him and call him wimpy. Hes an awesome character and I love what you're doing. Ty again.
I love Man of Steel! That’s the first Superman movie I saw in the movie theater besides Batman vs Superman in 2016.The Snyder cut of the Justice league is coming out next Tuesday March 16.
"so you think the idea of evil superman is overused?"
"yes i do, and i'm tired of pretending it's not"
Was literally talking about this with friends last week. I'm so over it! Superman needs a new cinematic golden age where he's nothing but the blue boyscout again. It's a much needed change of pace from the way overdone "he is a god among men and could kill us all" shit we've been fed for the last decade
When the world has become so dark and cynical that someone using their powers for good is considered unrealistic.
everything after mid year one in injustice superman was good once he goes overboard boy lol
In the Morden world people have gotten use to being let down by those they look up to real life so they insist on Projecting that onto fiction but characters like Superman are not meant to show life as it is but as it could be. What is truly sad is this seems to be the only story some want to tell with Superman these days. Not just in the main DC universe and else worlds but also in indie comics with Superman analogues like Homelander and The Plutonian, even films like Brightburn. It's quickly becoming tiresome and people are getting sick of it so hopefully it will die down after a while.
I look forward your video on Superman games and for another suggestion perhaps you do a video discussing the different between the pre crisis and post crisis versions of the character. Maybe one talking about all the different else world tales of Superman. Another good video.
Thanks for watching, dude. Good suggestions, too. This series doesn't perform all that well for me but it's okay, I just like to make them, lol
I agree. Time to pump the breaks on evil Superman. I think it was an interesting idea, but has been over used at this point. I wouldn’t mind it returning in the future, but it needs a long vacation first.
I just wanted a Superman game where I could fly around a big city, saving people and fighting villains. I'm with you on the evil Superman trope.
As Corny or JR would say‐ how can I miss you if you won't go away? It sounds like Evil Supes needs to go away for at least a decade. I'm not a big fan but when all the portrayals tend towards one direction it gets old.
Injustice Gods Among Us: Joker tricks "Superman" into murdering his wife and unborn child which triggers a nuclear bomb blowing up Metropolis killing over 11 million people. This "Superman" then immediately flies and punches his chest through Joker's chest instantly killing him. Then this "Superman" or really Homelander with an S on his chest becomes Stalin and builds gulags and armies of stormtroopers to rule the planet with an iron fist. This "Superman" engages in a 5 year civil war against Batman killing many of his own friends that he's know for years. God this story is garbage!
Emperor Joker: Joker tricks Mxyzptlk into give him all of his Godlike powers to control and manipulate all of reality which he uses to kill Batman over and over again and twist existence into his own image. Joker snaps his fingers killing everyone Superman has ever known and love including Lois, Jimmy, his parents, the Justice League, and Batman again trying to break Superman's will and mind to force him to kill. Superman never gives in and never gives up and never compromises his morals or kills the Joker in order to save all of existence even though Batman himself was broken and wanted Joker to die. Joker with just a snap of his fingers unleashed everything that could possible break the Man of Steel only to strengthen Superman's resolve which inspires all of his friends. This story by the way is canon and shows why Superman is still the greatest superhero of all time. Superman defeated the Joker with Godlike powers to control existence itself and despite losing Lois, his parents, and all of his friends, Superman never gave up or lost hope and continued to resist Emperor Joker. Superman is the ultimate symbol of Hope and all that is good. Throughout this story Joker's is continuously humiliated by Superman who refuses to accept the reality Joker created and his defiance is a rallying cry for the other heroes to rediscover their hopes. Batman is killed and resurrected over and over again having to live with the memories of torment and pain after being killed and resurrected so many times by Emperor Joker. Batman is literally Joker's chew toy throughout this entire story and the rest of the Justice League are transformed into hilarious caricatures of themselves like Wonder Woman being a housewife, Aquaman being a literal fish, Martian Manhunter becoming shorter resembling Marvin the Martian from Looney Tunes, and the Flash being fat and obsessed with junk food. There was a point near the end where Joker gave Superman a chance to truly kill him ending his rule over existence which Superman outright refused because it's what Joker would want and this was after Joker killed Lois and the entire Justice League. This pissed off Joker who decided to straight up kill Superman but cannot because he's losing his grip on his powers. Joker decides to destroy the entire universe so Superman on his own needs to discover the rules that Joker plays by in order for him to lose Mxyzptlk's powers before it's too late. Superman being the greatest hero of all time beats Godlike Joker at his own game using his wits and exploiting Joker's obsession and insecurities with the Batman causing Joker to doubt his own ability. Joker can't get rid of Batman no matter how many times he kills him or wills him out of existence because Joker's life and existence is meaningless without Batman which causes the Joker to lose his powers which return to Mxyzptlk and he, Superman, and Spectre repair and fix the entire Universe back to what it was before this whole horrifying event. Batman however had to live with all the trauma of being killed in so many gruesome and painful ways and is literally a broken shell of a man. Superman being the true hero and friend that he is has the Spectre take all of that traumatizing PTSD out of Batman and implant them into Joker who is drooling on the floor at Arkham Asylum. And Batman fanboys still think Batman is better than Superman LOL. Batman not only lost to the Joker but lost his morals and became insane wanting Superman to kill Joker to end it all. This story proves Superman is truly incorruptible and this story came out in the year 2000!
And there are people who still think Injustice is a good portrayal of Superman and the Justice League? LOL It's a horribly written story that perverts and bastardized the characters that everyone knows and loves for the sake of being dark and edgy.
Words cannot fathom how much I despise injustice and God bless whoever wrote emporer joker, love the fact it was written a decade before injustice so it has far more legitimacy.
This is kinda like "The Court of Owls" in Batman. They've been showing up more recently and they're rumored to be an enemy in the new "Gotham Knights" batman game.
"Showing up more recently".
Because they just got created recently.
Definitely agree it's been overdone. Would love a Supes video about Smallville since it's still one of my favourite DC shows
Personally I would like a Superman game similar to Taletell Batman. If not I like for Rocksteady to make a Man of Steel game and maybe have it share with the Arkham universe.
I've been on board with that idea for years.
Great video! I’d love to see more Superman content. Some topics I’d like to see about our great vill...I mean hero are:
Superman: The Animated Series (huge DCAU fan here)
Man of Steel
Death and Return of Superman (comics)
Video games in general
Movie ranking
Top 5-10 story arcs from the comics
Pretty run of the mill stuff but I’m a sucker for content revolving around comic book characters since that’s my thing.
I had a whole thing decided against.
Good or evil it doesn't matter at this point. It would be better to stick with one multiverse version instead of switching between so many version of the same character just told a different way.
Problem with evil Superman in Zack’s films is that they didn’t do enough to make his fall all that shocking. For all the talk of hope in Man of Steel, they established Superman as an angry psycho who needs a girlfriend to keep him from going nuts. Hardly inspirational
I’m in the minority of being someone who loves the Justice League movie. Towards the end when we Superman sneaks on Steppenwolfe and says “I’m a fan of truth but I’m also a fan of justice” and just beats the shit out of him with punches and heat vision, I cried the first time I saw it. And every rewatch I get misty eyed and emotional. Bc THAT’S who Superman is and what he’s all about
What Hack Snyder never got about Superman he definitely set back Superman Henry Cavill could have been amazing but needed to be written and directed by someone else
The worst version of Superman for me has to go to Millerverse Superman. Every damn time Frank Miller writes Superman he writes him as a violent sociopath who sucks up to authority no matter how evil it is! This is just disgusting because the real Superman would never, never, ever, ever do what he does in the Millerverse! It’s obvious to me Frank Miller dose not give a s**t about Superman and wants to lambast him every Chance he gets. I personally feel The Dark Knight Returns is why people have such a low opinion on Superman, it’s one of the reasons why I hate that book and anything that involves the Millerverse! All the abysmal versions of Superman come right back to The dark Knight Returns. I will give injustice a pass because Superman had a motivation for turning evil, so what the hell was Frank Millers excuse beyond him hating Superman with a passion?!
Frank Miller's career highlight is The Dark Knight Returns. Now obviously that's not a shining moment for Superman, but it is a fantastic Batman story. I point it out as Miller's peak because other than that and maybe Sin City... The dude sucks.
Let's not forget how jerk Superman is rampant in the field of animation in both the Harley Quinn cartoon AND DC Super Hero Girls, particularly the Lauren Faust reboot, Superman is an egotistical jerk.
Haven't seen any of those.
I recall this one Tweet that said we've gotten to the point where Evil Superman is so common that Superman as himself is the subversion. And yes, it is overdone, irritatingly so, because DC or WB keeps getting people handling Superman from an extremely cynical point of view because to them and apparently the Batfans, Superman is only interesting when he's evil or just Batman with powers: "gritty and grimdark". All it tells me is that they've become creatively bankrupt with the character.
Also, to correct you a bit about Spider-Man, something like that actually did happen to him in canon and it wasn't when he had the Black Suit. It was during the fallout of the original Clone Saga when Peter was told he was the clone and Ben Reilly the real Spider-Man, so Peter went through a "phase" where he tried to distance himself from humanity and started calling himself The Spider
Not a correction, I didn't say it has never happened. I said he's been done so well, for so long, that it'd be shocking.
You need to check out the gheists commentary in this comment section.
@@warlord8106 It got deleted already :v
@@kaihedgie1747 Just check a comment made by greg campos and you'll see a comment chain.
So, you seen the snyder cut yet, how are you finding it both as a dc and superman fan not to mention the idiotic plans zack had planned for superman.
Preach my good sir. You have said everything I think about the man of steel. I'd love to know more about your collection, what was your first figure you picked up? What made you get all the different ones that you got?
I did a collection video like 3 or 4 years ago, but an updated version is very necessary.
Does uh… does DC not remember that Bizarro is a thing?
Bizarro is used quite frequently.
@@616Entertainment yeah fair, but from what I can gather, he’s more of a comedic character nowadays. That rendition is still really cool though.
If DC want to do evil superman, they should just go with a Bizzaro
At this point the best representation of Superman is on the Lego Games, not throwing shade, amazing games but come on
DC Universe Online portrayed him as a leader as well, that was nice. lol
Zack has already said that the Snyder Cut is an Elseworlds story. If you want a non-evil Superman, they've already made Josstice League for you.
Lol. The entire DCEU being Elseworlds is the most Snyder thing possible. Also, where’d he say that? Give me a link. I’ve never heard him say that, ever.
@@616Entertainment Here you go: www.cinemablend.com/news/2551132/zack-snyder-used-the-perfect-word-to-explain-why-his-justice-league-isnt-dceu-canon
Props on the Fleetwood Mac mention!
I'm so tired of Superman portrayed as evil and corrupt that I want it to be over,also can you Superman voices,animated movies,and suits,please.
It is sad that every time DC/WB makes a new superhero games, the always play the Evil Superman card.
Agreed.
The moment where you mention bad superman in superman and Lois killed me. Im very sick of evil sup too lol
Dude it's gotta stop.
Can you please do a ranking of all the people who portrayed Superman in cartoons video games and movies please I think that be really cool
Agreed 100%. Enough evil Superman, enough dark Superman. Justice League wasn't a perfect movie like you said but I liked it just because we got a Superman that feels like Superman. I don't have high hopes for the Snyder Cut cause I haven't enjoyed his take on the character but I'll go into it with an open mind. Loving Superman & Lois though.
Dude S&L is soooo much better than I expected.
Bruce Timm wrote evil Superman properly that was the best way it was written Justice League episode A Better World and the Cadmus arc from Justice League Unlimited
Oh, my!!! I was just thinking the same thing, there are a lot more characters that could do a better job as tragic villains, there's so many better stories to tell, enough with bad sups, He is the symbol of hope, the heart of the justice league (Bats being its brain and Wonder Woman its soul) just give back my holy trinity, the ol' good Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman super team.
I absolutely agree with almost everything you said. I absolutely hate the fact that batman and superman always have to fight or fight most of the time. And superman always has to be the bad guy ( except for red son). I mean look at the 2003 justice league cartoon.
I loved in the new Animaniacs when you see a tour of the Warner Brothers studios.
Tour Guide: That's where they filmed Batman...
Tour Group: (excited) Oooo
Tour Guide:... vs Superman
Tour Group: (disappointed) Oh
If rumours are true we’re about to get a Michael B Jordan supes...I would be surprised if they went down the evil supes with that...might be an elseworld take...could be cool
the concept of Superman being evil is so unnecessary. I think (sometimes) Bizzaro and Ultraman from the crime syndicate are good enough evil supermen
I'm with you.
@@616Entertainment oh btw, well-made video.
watching this made me say "anyone can be superman" as much i've grew up around marvel i love this as for suggestions to get it off your chest completely superman video games on how it inspired you.. superman N64 doesn't have to be mention haha but if you can't do that i'll still enjoy the superman videos
I've done two Let's Play Friday episodes on Superman 64, but we'll see. I think I'd do an overall Superman games video before just doing one on that.
You should do a collab with Angry Joe on one of these Superman episodes
I've never seen any of his stuff, I don't know if we line up in any of our opinions, lol.
@@616Entertainment Actually, you should hook up with him and Linkara. _Especially_ Linkara
As someone who is not a big Superman fan, I never understood why evil Superman has been so prevalent in media the last decade or so. Like, at first, yes the most powerful being on the planet suddenly turning against it would be horrifying, but in a universe where the universe has been threatened by literal gods on multiple occasions and Clark being probably one of the kindest and gentlest hearts in the DCU, evil Superman is an odd trope to fall back on so many times.
One thing that has always encapsulated Superman as a character for me was actually from the Justice League cartoon. The "World of Cardboard" speech when he's fighting Darkseid, to me, shows the type of character he is meant to be. Someone with so much power that he knows that if he lost control he could really hurt or kill someone, but refuses to allow himself to lose that control over himself simply because he swore to be a hero.
That is Superman to me, and an evil Superman is just something I have a a hard time wrapping my head around in any context, honestly.
Uh... I did not mean for that comment to be so long. Lol my bad, Ian.
One Punch Man is a good example of how you can create an nigh invulnerable character and still make him compelling without resorting to a morality shift.
I would love to hear your opinion on the smallville series
I also loved Man of Steel. People forget Superman has killed Zod in almost adaption. Comics and Superman 2. Honestly, I don’t get the need to make Superman evil. That’s pretty much the purpose of Zod. To be the evil Kryptonian.
I think at the end of Superman 2, he reverses time so that the missile from the first movie doesn't free Zod and his buddies from the Phantom Zone.
Ok I like Superman too my second superhero
Apparently Rocksteady were working on a game for Superman...then WB shut it down. Woohoo...
Spider-Man is my favorite superhero! Glad you thought of what I thought of lol
I completely agree, he isn't more interesting when he is evil, bring him back as the hero we love. I want to see the kind, smiling Superman who will defend everyone because it's what is right.
Since we’re getting the Snyder cut. Do you think it’s time that they take superman four Clean it up and try to show what it was intended to be like they did with the Donner cut of superman two?
No, not really. That movie is decades old and I can’t imagine there’s really any sizable audience that is excited about that. I’d much rather they take their time and effort and put it into new stuff.
@@616Entertainment I can agree with that. Oh, can I ask will you be looking into the comic sSuperman 78 ?
Love this stuff dude. You should rank your favorite superman costumes or favorite superman villains
I've already got an episode in mind where I explain what all the different Superman symbols mean, but favorite costumes? I like this.
I think also the reason why Superman’s almost always bound to do turn evil is because some people just aren’t into wholesome clean-cut heroes on the straight and narrow, they want those edgy, gritty, anti-heroes like Punisher, Spawn, and more
In other words, why cheer for John Cena or Hulk Hogan when people want Hollywood Hogan or the Doctor of Thuganomics?
"..edgy, gritty heroes like Punisher, Spawn, & more." Exactly, and THOSE GUYS ALREADY EXIST! Lol. It's just lazy writing, it's horrible. It's the antithesis of understanding his character.
Bring back the age of innocence superman. He is done waay better in the animated world. Maybe have a review of your fave animated depictions of him? Birthright, red son etc. I love watching youtubers talk about good ol' Kal!!!
The problem is how predictable evil superman is. Brightburn is a better example because he was being corrupted overtime.
Brightburn doesn't count because it's not Superman. It's a different character entirely. It's an ode, but it's not Superman.
@@616Entertainment ah i see. But still evil superman is something tried too much with the same results
It's not even a good example, since the kid in the movie was being corrupted by the ship.
Real good. After Injustice, it seemed that worldbreaker heel Superman was the go-to for almost everything. It’s to the point where not only does “evil Superman” not interest me, but something like Homelander from The Boys or Brightburn just don’t stick out as interesting to me at all. Like the concept is “what if Superman were BAD” and I’m here like “he’s basically been bad in popular media for YEARS” haha.
You know what would be shocking? A video game where Superman is just Superman.
At least Homelander has an excuse why he's bad: he was treated more as lab experiment than an actual being growing up, and thus he became cruel and incapable of empathy. The guy who created the entire superhero program in the series told him to his face "you should have been raised by a loving family." Brightburn was just a wasted opportunity, since kid goes evil not because he wants to but because he's programmed to by his ship.
I want to see Superman vs Metallo
We've seen it!
@@616Entertainment On the big screen would be awesome 👏
Ah the original superman what if I said that the "good" aka your superman was a elseworld story
I couldn't agree more! Have you been keeping up with the Kryptonian Epic?
Not entirely, kinda letting a bunch of it stack up and then I'll jump into a ton while I'm cleaning the house or something. The Agent of Batman pitch was incredible, though, and I'm sad that we'll never have that book in our hands.
I hope you enjoy enjoy listening to all of it when it finishes coming out. I'll be looking forward to your next video!
if we want an evil superman it's called BrightBurn, Homelander, and OmniMan
Yeah that summarizes it pretty well for me. I mean for crying out loud, even Superman equivalents in other stories are evil by now. That's just annoying.
In my opinion, the only legitimately reasonable way classic heroes like Batman and Superman could ever be truly “evil” is if they simply stopped helping/saving people deliberately and intentionally. I liked MoS, but what bothered me about BvS’s Batman is that he was actively intent on killing, which is gross mischaracterisation on Snyder’s part. I don’t think Batman would be willing to kill Superman even if he hated him, but he would be indifferent enough to not stop someone else from killing him. And the same goes for Superman.
And even then, who the hell wants to see that, right?
@@616Entertainment True, that’s why I admire the team behind the animated DCverse BTAS, STAS, JL, and JLU. They truly understood heroism and how altruistic characters deal with their own individual issues and interpersonal conflicts.
Maybe an Evolution and explanation of Supermans logos and costumes in the next episode ?