Gotta say I would love to see a screen test, but I'm not sure about her voice. For one thing every time I've ever heard Amanda Waller speak, in an animated movie, I felt like she could spontaneously curse someone out with all the letters of the alphabet at the drop of a hat.
I would give anything for CCH Pounder to finally do a live action version. Her voice was iconic throughout Justice League and Justice League Unlimited.
That last sentence from the admiral said so much. About how their dressing down was just her job as an admiral but as a person she truly does think what they did was right and sound! She's just doing what she's told just as everyone else is.
You can't just fire two of your best commanders over a single action, especially two in command of arguably the most important ship in the fleet at this point. I mean just look at everything the Orville had achieved up to this point.@@ranger34ab
GREAT scene. The main characters take a stern dressing down and have no amusing quips or righteous backtalk. They take it, because sometimes even when you're right, you're found to be wrong. And it's worth it to them. The admiral is not a cartoon villain, or a heartless brute - she has concerns that go well beyond one Moclan girl and one annoying ship... but even then, there's a glimmer of what we all know to be true, that what happened deserves some regard and well-wishes. Mercer and Kelly are not the greatest ever, and the admiral is not a bitch. Excellently performed scene.
I like that it's clear that she ultimately agrees with their actions but also puts duty first. And her duty requires her to dress them down for disobeying orders even if it was orders she didn't want to give and probably morally opposed.
A military cannot function if their field officers disobey direct orders from their highest authority. The admiral was totally justified in reading them the riot act, whatever the outcome. Particularly since this action could easily have blown up in everyone's faces.
@@danieldickson8591 As she said, the got lucky. And it doesn't matter if they found a loop hole in the orders, they were still insubordinate to the intent of the orders and the needs of their higher command. You're comment of this blowing up in their faces may have been mild compared to what happened.
After serving 16 years in the US Navy, this is probably the most realistic dressing-down of an officer that I have seen in a while, on any show. I wasn't an officer, but I have seen sh*t like this go down, just like this. As someone else said, this is the kind of thing you don't see on the newer Star Trek shows as much. The effort in ST to portray an enlightened, and well-disciplined crew is fine in most respects, but is sorely lacking in scenes like this one. Kudos to Seth McFarlane for including scenes like this, that help display the parts of command that aren't shown as much, but which help convey the seriousness of the situation, as well as conveying the magnitude of the burden of command.
They did in deep space 9. After worf attempts to help his brother commit ritual suicide sisko rips him a new one and said that cultural diversity stops at murder and that of or happend again they wouldn't be in starfleet anymore.
It's something I think of when people argue that Star Trek has always been political. Orville is how it used to be. There were debates with multiple views expressed and argued. The show may choose one view as right, but they don't shy away from the larger effects or that you can't force others to change. The audience is left to think on the sides and decide. Modern sci-fi just decides what's enlightened and hits you over the head. One of the more interesting examples of this in Orville was the suicide discussion. It's one of the few times I can recall any show not just blaming the victim. They actually discuss how Isaac was ostracized and attacked to show how others contribute.
13 here, heavily seconded. Often times starfleet says we're not a military, just scientists with a chain of command, which always came off condescending. The union makes no bones about it and this bit hammers it home here. If it's not personal what made you jump out so close to 20?
@@TurboNerdNews I felt that time with my family was more important, particularly since my parents needed more of my help, now that they are older. There nor no regrets. I can always get a retirement elsewhere, but time with family can't be replaced.
Those parting words by the Admiral showed that the reprimand was more for form to satisfy the Union Council, which still included the Moclans. But clearly the Union was already on the fence with the Moclans as evident by the quick and unanimous ejection of the Moclans despite their central influence as being the primary source of weapons while still in a shooting war with the Kaylons.
I disagree. Holland may have sympathized with Mercer's and Grayson's motivations, but they committed a flagrant act of insubordination that could have had severe consequences for the Union. No military can stand for that. I fully believe that she'll cashier them both if they step out of line again.
@@danieldickson8591 I'm not saying she won't. With the way of how forcefully she made it clear that the next time they "throw a wrench into" the way she wants things done, I'm pretty sure both Ed and Kelly will be given their marching orders next time they so much as appear to step out of line. What I'm saying is that those last words, the Admiral's personal sentiments, were not just her own. Many in the Union Council, not just among its Admiralty, were already having such personal sentiments. Thus, when Topa stood before the Council, it didn't take long to get a unanimous vote to kick out the primary weapons supplier from the Union. Which is what makes this Admiral a great character. She's a professional and doesn't let personal sentiments get in the way of her work. She knows that there are thing beyond her control and that she has to follow order from on high as well, and she expects her subordinates to do the same. Those last words were more for the viewers rather than the characters in the scene, to give us a glimpse of the undercurrent of thoughts running through the Union.
Hell, the Moclans shoulda been out as SOON as their extreme sexism was on display. Every planet has their own rules, but in something like a Federation or a Union, there should ALWAYS be a higher power to keep everything running smoothly between members. And I would HOPE that the Moclan's behavior would be against the law.
I disliked that part of the whole arc because it didn't make sense to me. Any political organisation that is even slightly influenced by human liberal-democratic values ("liberal" here meaning the literal meaning of the word, "concerned with freedom", not whatever US Americans associate with it) like the Union Council in the Orville universe obviously is (but also the UFP in Star Trek) would have bodily autonomy enshrined as a fundamental right of a sophont. The council ever violating that even once, not to mention three times - first when they allowed the forced sex-change on Topa, then during the crisis with the colony of Moclan women and lastly with Topa wanting her original body back - just does not compute.
I just saw something talk about how a real Unit Commander wouldnt dress down the Individuals who made the mistake in front of everyone,they would call them into a private room and keep behind that door and between them and i respect that their leader did that.
I think that both had a direct order. As did Dr Finn. But actually Isaac was technically neutral of either Human, Mochlan or Kaylon society. So he was the only one who could perform the operation. The Admiral was suitably irritated and justified in being annoyed with this. But off the record, I suspect that privately she partly approved, but not entirely.
@@Fletchman1313 I don't think so. Jonathan Myers was correct to correct me on that point of order. And my mistake was a simple and honest one! Tell me, wouldn't you have made a similar mistake of this kind? If honest. The answer would be " yes!"🤔🤔
@@stephenfarthing3819 I think I thought it to be Mocclan before seeing it spelled out officially somewhere. Although for all we know it should be Moc'lan, but we've been omitting the glottal stop.
It's interesting how the Orville, which decidedly takes a much less militaristic approach to the Union than even Star Trek did with Starfleet, has moments like this where it's decidedly very military in tone. Unlike NuTrek where they make everything much more serious and dark, militaristic in tone but then you have lower ranking officers arguing with admirals and captains like it's no big deal, with zero consequence.
As with Star Trek, the purpose of the Union fleet is far more than military: exploration, diplomacy, humanitarian aid. I suppose it's fair to embrace a looser attitude when the circumstances you encounter can be so diverse. But this situation def called for the boot of discipline to come down hard.
There's always been criticism from Trek fans about "Golden Age" Federation with starfleet saying it's not functioning as a military but yet is sent to fight every conflict - so they needed to bring in some elements of militaristic function. They just haven't quite fleshed out how it should work. Same with the "shattered union" plot fans always wanted to see with major Fed worlds withdrawing.
@@LGranthamsHeir *(& @Warren Reid) ~* The reason that Captain Mercer (Seth MacFarlane) &/or Commander Grayson (Adrianne Palicki) did not make any jokes is because of Admiral Holland's (Andi Chapman) parting comment. By that parting comment, Holland showed that despite having to harshly chastise Mercer and Grayson, Holland personally sympathized with Topa and the Orville crew's actions. Also important to remember: both Mercer and Grayson avoided any punishment as well. So in the end of this scene, it was simply good form/grace to not crack any jokes &/or poke at Authority in this scene. *;)*
Showed how she felt early on. When Mercer started talking about taking responsibility she cut him off. If she was really there to take him out, she'd would of let him keep digging by throwing everything on himself. But instead she shut him up and took away the shovel, as it were.
Reminds me of that final scene in Inglorious Bastards: "You'll be shot for this!" "Nawh, I don't think so. More like chewed out. I've been chewed out before."
I kinda think that this is exactly how lt Rayne was chewed out after the end of the movie. A rant about insubordination/incompetence, followed by a backhanded hidden compliment as proof that even the superior officer approved what he did
They also realized that she was right when she said they were lucky. If an interstellar war had broken out and billions had died, they would not feel so good. She reminded them of that possibility.
I like how the Admiral knew the whole situation was totally f***** but realized it was a personal issue with an individual that the epicenter of something that is even more fucked
those last words, I think were a key... The ass chewing was because she had to, or she would be dialect in her duties, but those last words were an indication of where she personally stood.
In the real world that's exactly what an ass chewing sounds like when it is given to you by someone senior to you, who has to discuss what you did right as much as what you did wrong but also has to remind you of the real-world consequences of what you did, and also to remind you there won't be a second chance if you cross the line again .
I love how the show didn’t just give them a pat on the back or a slap on the wrist that somebody above them actually pointed out that they did just get lucky and stuff like that they shouldn’t rely on judgment calls I felt sorry for her in this episode but the discomfort and sad feelings of a child is not worth the potential deaths of hundreds of billions
This is similar to when Captain Sisko chewed out Worf for not abandoning Jadzia(Worf's wife) to complete the mission, then afterwards emphasizing with Worf telling him that he(Sisko) wouldn't have abandoned Jennifer(Sisko's late wife) to die either.
Too bad the plot of that episode was so braindead. There was 0 need to abandon the mission to save Jadzia. Worf could have left her hiding somewhere after she got shot, gone on to get the defector, then picked her up on the way back. He also could have carried her back to the shuttle after she got shot, and still would have had enough time to make it to the meeting with the defector.
@@SovietReunionYT Gonna have to rewatch the episode, but I think Jadzia was bleeding out, initially they tried to finish the mission, but by the time her condition got so bad they only had enough time to either save Jadzia or rescue the defector
Love this over star trek. This isn't a debate. There isn't a moral quandary to solve. This is two ranking officers that disobeyed a direct order. Having the best of intentions doesn't mean shit in a large military force. You follow the orders of thos above you precisely because they have a bigger picture than you do. That's how it works. You focus on your slice of the pie and the mission gets done.
Finally a proper “ass chewing” I agree with many comments here. The reality of any military structure organization has to have conflict and this happens when you disobey or deviate from orders. In the Admiral’s words, they got 🍀
@@johnpauljones9310Oh it’ll be on the record if she has to crack down later. Take it from someone who has a Reprimand or two, along with a Demotion, in his Permanent File.
The consequences of being right, but inconvenient. The sad truth is, the realpolitik of the situation was that the Union was trampling an individual's rights for the sake of the "greater good". That's where the switch at the end comes from, the recognition that what they did was right for Topa, but not so great for the Union. She was ready to sacrifice a little girl for the greater benefit, but may have been privately relieved that their disobedience forced them not to.
I’d say the dissolution started way back in season 1, where Mercer and crew exposed that Moclan females can be just as great as males, if not moreso… They’ve likely had an irritation against Mercer and the Orville ever since, but always kept the idea that leaving the Union wouldn’t be in their best interests, until much later.
Yep, and what happened then they were attacked. If this was real life and the writers didn't get that ex machia thing, then the union could have been destroyed. The characters were really dumb this season.
@@senister14 What "ex machina" thing are you talking about? That the Kaylon agreed to join in a then-temporary alliance with the Union in order to get the weapon back?
@@senister14 I mean, not really? They've known about the "mind link" since mid-way through season 2, along with how an EMP on the same frequency can cause the Kaylon to shut down... and how to protect Isaac from it by his being disconnected from the link. Also keep in mind that the Orville is the only ship in the fleet with an actual Kaylon on it (Isaac). He would have known all their weaknesses and how to exploit them. The weapon is just a large-scale EMP-like device that sends out a signal that forces an overload in the link. While not shown on-screen, it's likely they've been working on making some sort of weapon since the initial takeover of the Orville by the Kaylon... which in-universe was about a year beforehand. So no, they didn't just "suddenly invent" the weapon.
Great scene. This is how you can play right and wrong at the same time. They were given a dressing down for disobeying an order that could have had massive ramifications in the future and caused a war (which we know will happen anyway), so she had to go hard on them. As a leader should. And they know they deserved it, so remained silent and strong. Yet at the same time the admiral as a woman on a personal note most likely understands and is sympathetic towards them (hence the "wishing the moclan girl well" comment). And their look towards her at the end acknowledges this. She knows her team have hearts of gold and appreciates this. Yet also knows that even the best intentions can have bad results on a galactic scale. So the dressing down and then well whishing was extremely well executed
I would have liked the admiral to have said "you will speak when spoken too captain or is it engine." Mainly because the admiral would have been fully with in her power to not only demote him that far bust his second as well or kick them out on a court-martialed with dishonorable discharges. Or even have the entire crew of the Orville transferred to other ships across the fleet. The possibilities of punishment are very vast in this kind of situation. I would have also have liked to have added before she left "Never ever do something like this again." What we do not see that the admiral probably had to pull in a lot of favors and strings to keep the crew of the Orville together. The other people that she pulled strings and favors with could have very well told here that this is a one time thing and the next time something like this happens her hands would be tided and she would have to let the hammer down. Just my thoughts
These always suck to do, but reprimand NEEDS to be done regardless of the good intentions. I've been in the admirals' shoes plenty of times when it comes to disciplining employees, and even though what they did was morally right, they went against one of their superiors legitimate orders and against the culture of an entire species way of life. You don't disrespect both, and think you'll get away scott free. This had to be done but on non-official channels, you can congratulate and praise what they did. In the future however, this does make the higher echelon keep an eye on the Orville and its crew as they have proven they cannot follow simple and clear orders. A great scene. Sad to see this admiral wasn't apart of the Kaylon alliance signing at the end of the 3rd season.
Just before the admiral left she should have said. "Please extend my best wishes to the Moclyen girl." She then walks several steps to them and the camera slowly dolly zooms in on her she says "Never ever do something like this ever again because my hands will be tided next time." Just a thought because the Admiral had to have to have called in many favors from across the Admirals in the fleet and they made it very clear to her that this is a one time thing just to to keep it just to a dressing down.
This kinda reminds me on the times when Captain Sisko officially told Commander Worf he screwed up and after the official part showed understanding for him. In one instance, Worf decided to save Jadzia Dax' life (who was his wife at that time) instead of the Cardassian defector who had important information for the Federation and the Klingons. After the... stern official reprimand, Captain Sisko said off the record that he would've done the same if his wife was in that situation. The only difference in my opinion is that Admiral Holland's approach for the official reprimand was much more... strict than Captain Sisko's.
Man, this brings back memories of my standing at attention in the Marine Corps and getting yelled at for a fuck up. Seriously, if you've never been in the military, you cannot possibly understand how that feels.
Seth Macfarlane, world renowned funny man, wants to do a serious project and needs 10 million from you. It’s a serious workplace drama. You droppin money on that and expecting any back? Or like, would Seth need to insert his trademark skills into the work before you decide to spend?
Seth said he had to pitch it as a comedy for it to get made. He wanted to have season 1 follow the tone of 2 and 3, but had to start it off that way to get the show made.
The burden of command; Despite the fact that I may understand and agree with what you felt you had to do, I still have to “spank” you as part of my position.
This is a great example of accepting responsibility and consequences for your actions, no matter how noble. Anyone think of a Star Trek character that would be this responsible? No, they'd all have given passionate speeches about how theirs is the superior morality thus justification of violating a direct order. Whereas Mercer and Grayson and co found a run around solution, but didn't laude it over their Superior officers when called to task over it. True Leadership takes accountability, not just credit. Why is this series not continuing? These are the most relatable good examples on screen I've come across since M*A*S*H and 'Lean On Me'
It does remind me of the DS9 episode where O'Brien helps Tosk escape. Sisko rips him a new one before subtly revealing that he had a hand in it as well.
@@vypernight Classic Trek of the TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY era have many such examples of what the OP is stating. NuTrek? Not so much. They're right simply because of the color of their skin and what's between their legs, according to the writers, and that's the exact OPPOSITE of what Trek was about.
Great scene two main characters and Seth is also writer on the show got drilled really hard.And Admiral was not one dimensional villian in this she just saw a bigger picture.She is not Admiral for nothing.
I like this scene as it draws the right middle ground between two distinctive positions that most narrative take. Rather then the half ass way we seen rules held depending on how much the person likes you, they actually get held accountable for breaking the rules and are told point blank they should consider this blind luck that things are not worse instead of a go ahead to keep breaking the rule. Basically every cop show that’s existed since 2000s. On the other hand the admiral makes the clear point how the rules and procedures exist for very specific and explicit reason that extend far beyond every single slightly morally inconvenient situation rather then say the rules are bad because we don’t get what we want. Basically every cop show since 2000.
For a moment I thought Ed and Kelly got a dressing down from the Admiral because she is once again worshiped as a god by another pre-quantum civilization 😄😆
I've been hearing how THE ORVILLE is more "Star Trek" than current STAR TREK, and now I'm starting to see it myself, despite only seeing clips of the franchises.
That admiral probably has a higher ranking admiral or government official who yells at her when she screws up? She would just have to stand there and say, "YES SIR!"
Yes, she has. It's called the Union Council, which represents all members of the Planetary Union among which are the Moclans. But it would seem the Union Council was just being "diplomatic" (and I use that term loosely here) with the Moclans due to them being the primary source of the Unions weapons. But when push came to shove, the Union Council was quick to eject the Moclans from the planetary Union. Which is why the Admiral's parting words were very important to this scene. She may not like the orders, but as a professional she has to see it through. And what Ed and Kelly did just threw a wrench into that. Her sentiments were probably reflective of the Union Council's own.
True. When I was a manager in a school district, I used to tell my people that if you can’t handle getting your ass chewed out to don’t bother getting promoted. The higher you get, the worst the ass chewings are.
She only appeared in one scene but by god Admiral Howland made a lasting impression, she maybe a minor character but she commanded so much power and respect. Her actions by reprimanding Ed and Kelly in private showed that they were in deep shit, she made it clear that as an admiral, she did not approve of their actions but at the end, she showed her humanity by asking them to give her regards to Topa. She was an admiral first but she was a human as well. In one scene. I hate the fact the writers managed to make a competetnt officer in one scene, than Star trek discovery has in four seasons.
Approval isn't the point. They disobeyed direct orders. The technicality used to excuse that might have worked in a court martial, but they knew the intent of the order. That's easily a career-ending move.
I think it was more “this is where we’re at after alls said and done, so we have to accept it and move on”. She wasn’t agreeing with their actions, she was merely accepting that this was the result. Years ago I was told a story about a manager who had 2 choices for a high level management position: a lady named Christine and a chap named John. This manager was told by her supervisor to hire John as they needed someone who was looking for a long term career whereas Christine was only semi-dedicated, but the job went to Christine as the manager thought she knew better. 3 months later Christine up and left without any notice, and suddenly there was a gap in management. A month after that The manager wanted to recruit again but her supervisor said she couldn’t because they couldn’t afford it with the budget. If John had been given the job it would’ve set off a series of benefits that would’ve helped everyone, but because one person thought they knew better, everyone got screwed over. When the manager asked the supervisor if she would be chewed out or lose her job, she was simply told: doing that would be pointless as it won’t change anything. This is where we’re at because you made a choice, and we all have to deal with it.
Yeah, seriously. Naomi purposefully put wrinkles into my posters when she mounted them for me. She's not that bad at what she does. Clearly none of you have actually seen the counter top that she and her mother made in the kitchen downstairs. 6150 Gun Club Trail. It's GORGEOUS when they turn the lights on.
I was sympathetic with Topa's predicament but Grayson getting personally involved and Mercer and Isaac's "solution" was crossing the line I think. But made for good drama, lots of Orville episodes about "grey" ethical issues!
The keyword here is context in real life this type of thing would have many peoples opinion but no real direct consequences for anybody other than the individual but in the show this was pretty much a gamble on the lives of hundreds of billions🤔 The admiral was right they did just get lucky😐
Yes and that's the reason why Europe have no real army ony people cosplaying soldiers. Whole point of military is command structure and obeying orders. Now iam not talking about egregious obvious criminal orders like go and blow kindergarten but in general military can only work if people obey because there are other people who are making decisions who have more information and greater picture and most hard part of command is make hard decisions even sacrifice lives.
@@Pedgo1986 And that's why Russia is invading Ukraine, Hamas is (justifiably) doing what it's doing. The lack of european army is a big part of why the western hegemony is failing and your amoral take on military service is a big part of it. Obviously militaries rely on group cohesion, you're not special for understanding that. But a moral imperative is crucial for any legitimate nation, so clearly that is also crucial. A nation acting immorally is a nation without a will to fight, an impetus to act.
I was a 1st lieutenant in Vietnam. The superior officers treated us much worse than this. The worst were the old majors. They were never promoted because of their lack of professionalism and education. Usually they were southerners for some reason. They were clueless about guerrilla warfare. When I first went into the battalion I was told I would spend six months in the field and six months in an administrative position. I spent my entire time in the field. I survived so it is what it is. Now I’m an old man and those bastards are dead. Bravo co 1/2 Big Red One Quan Loi .
As an admiral, she has to be concerned with the strategic consequences to the war that this could have caused. But the human beneath the uniform still recognized that this was a child trying to live her life as she wanted. Well acted scene.
She had a point, it was extremely lucky Moclans didn't pull out of the Union because of this Tho they did eventually vote the Moclans out of the Union but that's beside the point
She's just doing her job. Reminding them of their failure, the larger consequences of their actions, ect. Its mostly an act, because in the end she shows she is on their side.
Great show... aspiring spirit of progress all over hopefully beyend and betterbthen wevcan ever imagine.... A dream for humanity over and above and beyond ... for all thing good and will be good ❤peace😊
She played the commander role well. At first i thought “oh goodie. Another women race empowering. Yaaaaaaaaay…” But she played the role well with logic. Cold logic and stated how sensitive the situation was without involving herself. Good show
It shouldn’t have even been a problem. The MOCLANS are the ones in the TOTAL wrong here for their sexist, straight up insulting policies. It boggles my mind how the Union even put up with their bullshit for so long. They HAD to have known about this well before Tooa was born. I don’t care if it’s a tradition and culture. Some things should not be controlled by those things. And I am FAIRLY convinced that a Union of planets would have one law set that all planets follow in addition to some local laws. And I sure as hell would think gender identity is protected under Union Law. Point is, I hate the Moclans now and they bloody well deserved to be kicked out of the Union.
Holy cow. If DC ever needs another Amanda Waller actor, I wholeheartedly nominate Andi Chapman.
I had the same thought. Similar intensity and energy.
Gotta say I would love to see a screen test, but I'm not sure about her voice. For one thing every time I've ever heard Amanda Waller speak, in an animated movie, I felt like she could spontaneously curse someone out with all the letters of the alphabet at the drop of a hat.
I would give anything for CCH Pounder to finally do a live action version. Her voice was iconic throughout Justice League and Justice League Unlimited.
she's perfect
@@Johnston212I wish Nell Carter had lived to play her
That last sentence from the admiral said so much. About how their dressing down was just her job as an admiral but as a person she truly does think what they did was right and sound! She's just doing what she's told just as everyone else is.
They should have been removed from command for a loss of confidence in command.
You can't just fire two of your best commanders over a single action, especially two in command of arguably the most important ship in the fleet at this point. I mean just look at everything the Orville had achieved up to this point.@@ranger34ab
@@ranger34abthey absolutely should have but since things worked out and it's also a TV show.... They were allowed to stay :/
The whole second half.
"Some would say your actions were commendable, I say you were just lucky." That things didn't go horribly wrong for all of us.
@@ranger34ab she literally just told them that she hadn't lost trust in them. That was the whole point of the scene.
GREAT scene. The main characters take a stern dressing down and have no amusing quips or righteous backtalk. They take it, because sometimes even when you're right, you're found to be wrong. And it's worth it to them. The admiral is not a cartoon villain, or a heartless brute - she has concerns that go well beyond one Moclan girl and one annoying ship... but even then, there's a glimmer of what we all know to be true, that what happened deserves some regard and well-wishes. Mercer and Kelly are not the greatest ever, and the admiral is not a bitch. Excellently performed scene.
I like that it's clear that she ultimately agrees with their actions but also puts duty first. And her duty requires her to dress them down for disobeying orders even if it was orders she didn't want to give and probably morally opposed.
The best part is that not everything is in the union favor and how a small action has consequences in a long run.
A military cannot function if their field officers disobey direct orders from their highest authority. The admiral was totally justified in reading them the riot act, whatever the outcome. Particularly since this action could easily have blown up in everyone's faces.
@@danieldickson8591 As she said, the got lucky. And it doesn't matter if they found a loop hole in the orders, they were still insubordinate to the intent of the orders and the needs of their higher command. You're comment of this blowing up in their faces may have been mild compared to what happened.
What you mean to say is that there is no "shear f****** hubris"?
After serving 16 years in the US Navy, this is probably the most realistic dressing-down of an officer that I have seen in a while, on any show. I wasn't an officer, but I have seen sh*t like this go down, just like this. As someone else said, this is the kind of thing you don't see on the newer Star Trek shows as much. The effort in ST to portray an enlightened, and well-disciplined crew is fine in most respects, but is sorely lacking in scenes like this one. Kudos to Seth McFarlane for including scenes like this, that help display the parts of command that aren't shown as much, but which help convey the seriousness of the situation, as well as conveying the magnitude of the burden of command.
They did in deep space 9. After worf attempts to help his brother commit ritual suicide sisko rips him a new one and said that cultural diversity stops at murder and that of or happend again they wouldn't be in starfleet anymore.
It's something I think of when people argue that Star Trek has always been political. Orville is how it used to be. There were debates with multiple views expressed and argued. The show may choose one view as right, but they don't shy away from the larger effects or that you can't force others to change. The audience is left to think on the sides and decide. Modern sci-fi just decides what's enlightened and hits you over the head. One of the more interesting examples of this in Orville was the suicide discussion. It's one of the few times I can recall any show not just blaming the victim. They actually discuss how Isaac was ostracized and attacked to show how others contribute.
13 here, heavily seconded. Often times starfleet says we're not a military, just scientists with a chain of command, which always came off condescending.
The union makes no bones about it and this bit hammers it home here.
If it's not personal what made you jump out so close to 20?
@@TurboNerdNews I felt that time with my family was more important, particularly since my parents needed more of my help, now that they are older. There nor no regrets. I can always get a retirement elsewhere, but time with family can't be replaced.
As a U.S. Army Combat Veteran, this scene is 100% cringe.
Those parting words by the Admiral showed that the reprimand was more for form to satisfy the Union Council, which still included the Moclans. But clearly the Union was already on the fence with the Moclans as evident by the quick and unanimous ejection of the Moclans despite their central influence as being the primary source of weapons while still in a shooting war with the Kaylons.
I disagree. Holland may have sympathized with Mercer's and Grayson's motivations, but they committed a flagrant act of insubordination that could have had severe consequences for the Union. No military can stand for that. I fully believe that she'll cashier them both if they step out of line again.
@@danieldickson8591 I'm not saying she won't. With the way of how forcefully she made it clear that the next time they "throw a wrench into" the way she wants things done, I'm pretty sure both Ed and Kelly will be given their marching orders next time they so much as appear to step out of line. What I'm saying is that those last words, the Admiral's personal sentiments, were not just her own. Many in the Union Council, not just among its Admiralty, were already having such personal sentiments. Thus, when Topa stood before the Council, it didn't take long to get a unanimous vote to kick out the primary weapons supplier from the Union.
Which is what makes this Admiral a great character. She's a professional and doesn't let personal sentiments get in the way of her work. She knows that there are thing beyond her control and that she has to follow order from on high as well, and she expects her subordinates to do the same. Those last words were more for the viewers rather than the characters in the scene, to give us a glimpse of the undercurrent of thoughts running through the Union.
Thankfully the Wisdom of the Earth Sage, Dolly Parton, succeded in saving the day. "Do the right thing and the future takes care of itself!"
Hell, the Moclans shoulda been out as SOON as their extreme sexism was on display.
Every planet has their own rules, but in something like a Federation or a Union, there should ALWAYS be a higher power to keep everything running smoothly between members. And I would HOPE that the Moclan's behavior would be against the law.
I disliked that part of the whole arc because it didn't make sense to me. Any political organisation that is even slightly influenced by human liberal-democratic values ("liberal" here meaning the literal meaning of the word, "concerned with freedom", not whatever US Americans associate with it) like the Union Council in the Orville universe obviously is (but also the UFP in Star Trek) would have bodily autonomy enshrined as a fundamental right of a sophont. The council ever violating that even once, not to mention three times - first when they allowed the forced sex-change on Topa, then during the crisis with the colony of Moclan women and lastly with Topa wanting her original body back - just does not compute.
I just saw something talk about how a real Unit Commander wouldnt dress down the Individuals who made the mistake in front of everyone,they would call them into a private room and keep behind that door and between them and i respect that their leader did that.
Yep. Praise in public, discipline in private. That's how it should go
I think that both had a direct order. As did Dr Finn. But actually Isaac was technically neutral of either Human, Mochlan or Kaylon society. So he was the only one who could perform the operation. The Admiral was suitably irritated and justified in being annoyed with this. But off the record, I suspect that privately she partly approved, but not entirely.
It's, Moclan. No H on it.
@@jonathanmyers8920 Sorry for that! I wrote it as it sounded. Hmm ! Perhaps I have a long way to go with the Orville universe as well.
@@jonathanmyers8920 Maybe the German spelling is with an H.
@@Fletchman1313 I don't think so. Jonathan Myers was correct to correct me on that point of order. And my mistake was a simple and honest one! Tell me, wouldn't you have made a similar mistake of this kind? If honest. The answer would be " yes!"🤔🤔
@@stephenfarthing3819 I think I thought it to be Mocclan before seeing it spelled out officially somewhere. Although for all we know it should be Moc'lan, but we've been omitting the glottal stop.
It's interesting how the Orville, which decidedly takes a much less militaristic approach to the Union than even Star Trek did with Starfleet, has moments like this where it's decidedly very military in tone. Unlike NuTrek where they make everything much more serious and dark, militaristic in tone but then you have lower ranking officers arguing with admirals and captains like it's no big deal, with zero consequence.
As with Star Trek, the purpose of the Union fleet is far more than military: exploration, diplomacy, humanitarian aid. I suppose it's fair to embrace a looser attitude when the circumstances you encounter can be so diverse. But this situation def called for the boot of discipline to come down hard.
There's always been criticism from Trek fans about "Golden Age" Federation with starfleet saying it's not functioning as a military but yet is sent to fight every conflict - so they needed to bring in some elements of militaristic function. They just haven't quite fleshed out how it should work. Same with the "shattered union" plot fans always wanted to see with major Fed worlds withdrawing.
it's called having a competent writing team.
We saw Picard in TNG arguing with admirals on more than one occasion. Sisko also had a major blowout with Admiral Layton.
Woketrek is garbage
The way the admiral handled that was perfect. Even at the end of the scene.
Admiral Holland is even scarier than Admiral Ozawa. Even Mercer didn't resort to make a joke behind her back 😄
@@LGranthamsHeir *(& @Warren Reid) ~* The reason that Captain Mercer (Seth MacFarlane) &/or Commander Grayson (Adrianne Palicki) did not make any jokes is because of Admiral Holland's (Andi Chapman) parting comment. By that parting comment, Holland showed that despite having to harshly chastise Mercer and Grayson, Holland personally sympathized with Topa and the Orville crew's actions.
Also important to remember: both Mercer and Grayson avoided any punishment as well. So in the end of this scene, it was simply good form/grace to not crack any jokes &/or poke at Authority in this scene. *;)*
@@pendrake40 Good points indeed. Thanks for sharing 😉
@@LGranthamsHeir ~ Happy to explain/clarify. You are welcome. *:)*
I know after a chewing-out like that, I would be in no mood to crack jokes for a long time.
That admiral gave me some big captain sisko vibes
AND I LOVE IT
She reminds of Amanda Waller Both big black women who always command the room they are in
@@kreigguardsman3355 I feel like Waller is taller.
@@ReddwarfIV I believe your right
Admiral Holland doesn't need to be taller. Her command presence is ten-foot.
So you're saying they DISGRACED THEIR UNIFORM?
I love this scene so much. 2 minutes of official dressing down, 10 seconds of what the admiral actually felt.
Showed how she felt early on. When Mercer started talking about taking responsibility she cut him off. If she was really there to take him out, she'd would of let him keep digging by throwing everything on himself. But instead she shut him up and took away the shovel, as it were.
Reminds me of that final scene in Inglorious Bastards:
"You'll be shot for this!"
"Nawh, I don't think so. More like chewed out. I've been chewed out before."
I kinda think that this is exactly how lt Rayne was chewed out after the end of the movie. A rant about insubordination/incompetence, followed by a backhanded hidden compliment as proof that even the superior officer approved what he did
Wow. This Admiral Holland is even scarier than Admiral Ozawa. Even Mercer didn't resort to make a joke behind her back 😄😃
Would you have felt like making a joke after that tongue-lashing?
To be fair, he probably learned his lesson from the first time.
They also realized that she was right when she said they were lucky. If an interstellar war had broken out and billions had died, they would not feel so good. She reminded them of that possibility.
@@danieldickson8591not when the female black authority figure trope is activated.
I think Holland outranks Ozawa too.
Short version: "Professionally as officers you two are a failure. As human beings, you're not."
I like how the Admiral knew the whole situation was totally f***** but realized it was a personal issue with an individual that the epicenter of something that is even more fucked
An excellent example of a military ass chewing.
those last words, I think were a key... The ass chewing was because she had to, or she would be dialect in her duties, but those last words were an indication of where she personally stood.
@@MrShadow-qz9xj*derelict
In the real world that's exactly what an ass chewing sounds like when it is given to you by someone senior to you, who has to discuss what you did right as much as what you did wrong but also has to remind you of the real-world consequences of what you did, and also to remind you there won't be a second chance if you cross the line again .
This is just a formality. The Admiral is clearly on their side but they did break the rules and that must be addressed.
I love how the show didn’t just give them a pat on the back or a slap on the wrist that somebody above them actually pointed out that they did just get lucky and stuff like that they shouldn’t rely on judgment calls I felt sorry for her in this episode but the discomfort and sad feelings of a child is not worth the potential deaths of hundreds of billions
Let me give you a gift.
.........':':';':;:"';:''":;;
If you need more please let me know.
🤪😜🤪😜😜 Sorry. Could not resist.
Admiral Holland had more than enough grounds to demand both their resignations. She was actually generous in her treatment of them.
@@danieldickson8591 Isn't that a movie cliche the angry black chief yelling at the rebel hotshot
@@festo8756 It is, but this is the first time we've seen Holland do that. And she had plenty of justification.
@@danieldickson8591 I can see her now “They did WHAT???”
This is similar to when Captain Sisko chewed out Worf for not abandoning Jadzia(Worf's wife) to complete the mission, then afterwards emphasizing with Worf telling him that he(Sisko) wouldn't have abandoned Jennifer(Sisko's late wife) to die either.
Too bad the plot of that episode was so braindead. There was 0 need to abandon the mission to save Jadzia. Worf could have left her hiding somewhere after she got shot, gone on to get the defector, then picked her up on the way back. He also could have carried her back to the shuttle after she got shot, and still would have had enough time to make it to the meeting with the defector.
@@SovietReunionYT Gonna have to rewatch the episode, but I think Jadzia was bleeding out, initially they tried to finish the mission, but by the time her condition got so bad they only had enough time to either save Jadzia or rescue the defector
@@XFactor5a that’s also how I remembered it ( Change of Heart).
I hated that episode. If Terry Farrell had stayed then fair enough but as she was leaving it would have been a far better way for Jadzia to die.
Love this over star trek. This isn't a debate. There isn't a moral quandary to solve. This is two ranking officers that disobeyed a direct order. Having the best of intentions doesn't mean shit in a large military force. You follow the orders of thos above you precisely because they have a bigger picture than you do. That's how it works. You focus on your slice of the pie and the mission gets done.
Finally a proper “ass chewing” I agree with many comments here. The reality of any military structure organization has to have conflict and this happens when you disobey or deviate from orders. In the Admiral’s words, they got 🍀
NOW THATS A REAL MILITARY ASS CHEWING.. 😂
They deserved it.
She did it off the record, too.
kinda. a real chewing includes pissed pants. maybe poop too. and lots of crying. my shop was right next to where the njp's were. yikes!
@@johnpauljones9310Oh it’ll be on the record if she has to crack down later. Take it from someone who has a Reprimand or two, along with a Demotion, in his Permanent File.
Your damn right, nothing could be more accurate than the military ignoring human rights violations
The consequences of being right, but inconvenient. The sad truth is, the realpolitik of the situation was that the Union was trampling an individual's rights for the sake of the "greater good". That's where the switch at the end comes from, the recognition that what they did was right for Topa, but not so great for the Union. She was ready to sacrifice a little girl for the greater benefit, but may have been privately relieved that their disobedience forced them not to.
Hmm! Quite the consequence. And that is the start of the dissolution of the Moclans from the Union.
I’d say the dissolution started way back in season 1, where Mercer and crew exposed that Moclan females can be just as great as males, if not moreso… They’ve likely had an irritation against Mercer and the Orville ever since, but always kept the idea that leaving the Union wouldn’t be in their best interests, until much later.
Yep, and what happened then they were attacked. If this was real life and the writers didn't get that ex machia thing, then the union could have been destroyed. The characters were really dumb this season.
@@senister14 What "ex machina" thing are you talking about? That the Kaylon agreed to join in a then-temporary alliance with the Union in order to get the weapon back?
@@BYERE yes, just when the moclons leave, suddenly they invent a machine that can kill all the kaylond, that's such lazy writing.
@@senister14 I mean, not really? They've known about the "mind link" since mid-way through season 2, along with how an EMP on the same frequency can cause the Kaylon to shut down... and how to protect Isaac from it by his being disconnected from the link.
Also keep in mind that the Orville is the only ship in the fleet with an actual Kaylon on it (Isaac). He would have known all their weaknesses and how to exploit them.
The weapon is just a large-scale EMP-like device that sends out a signal that forces an overload in the link.
While not shown on-screen, it's likely they've been working on making some sort of weapon since the initial takeover of the Orville by the Kaylon... which in-universe was about a year beforehand.
So no, they didn't just "suddenly invent" the weapon.
Another good dressing down from Admiral. At least Picard wasn't the only one disobeying direct orders.
Great scene.
This is how you can play right and wrong at the same time.
They were given a dressing down for disobeying an order that could have had massive ramifications in the future and caused a war (which we know will happen anyway), so she had to go hard on them. As a leader should.
And they know they deserved it, so remained silent and strong.
Yet at the same time the admiral as a woman on a personal note most likely understands and is sympathetic towards them (hence the "wishing the moclan girl well" comment).
And their look towards her at the end acknowledges this.
She knows her team have hearts of gold and appreciates this.
Yet also knows that even the best intentions can have bad results on a galactic scale.
So the dressing down and then well whishing was extremely well executed
I would have liked the admiral to have said "you will speak when spoken too captain or is it engine."
Mainly because the admiral would have been fully with in her power to not only demote him that far bust his second as well or kick them out on a court-martialed with dishonorable discharges. Or even have the entire crew of the Orville transferred to other ships across the fleet. The possibilities of punishment are very vast in this kind of situation.
I would have also have liked to have added before she left "Never ever do something like this again."
What we do not see that the admiral probably had to pull in a lot of favors and strings to keep the crew of the Orville together. The other people that she pulled strings and favors with could have very well told here that this is a one time thing and the next time something like this happens her hands would be tided and she would have to let the hammer down.
Just my thoughts
These always suck to do, but reprimand NEEDS to be done regardless of the good intentions. I've been in the admirals' shoes plenty of times when it comes to disciplining employees, and even though what they did was morally right, they went against one of their superiors legitimate orders and against the culture of an entire species way of life. You don't disrespect both, and think you'll get away scott free. This had to be done but on non-official channels, you can congratulate and praise what they did. In the future however, this does make the higher echelon keep an eye on the Orville and its crew as they have proven they cannot follow simple and clear orders. A great scene. Sad to see this admiral wasn't apart of the Kaylon alliance signing at the end of the 3rd season.
Just before the admiral left she should have said. "Please extend my best wishes to the Moclyen girl." She then walks several steps to them and the camera slowly dolly zooms in on her she says "Never ever do something like this ever again because my hands will be tided next time."
Just a thought because the Admiral had to have to have called in many favors from across the Admirals in the fleet and they made it very clear to her that this is a one time thing just to to keep it just to a dressing down.
They took those hits right between the eyes and didn't blink. Leaders.
This kinda reminds me on the times when Captain Sisko officially told Commander Worf he screwed up and after the official part showed understanding for him.
In one instance, Worf decided to save Jadzia Dax' life (who was his wife at that time) instead of the Cardassian defector who had important information for the Federation and the Klingons. After the... stern official reprimand, Captain Sisko said off the record that he would've done the same if his wife was in that situation.
The only difference in my opinion is that Admiral Holland's approach for the official reprimand was much more... strict than Captain Sisko's.
Man, this brings back memories of my standing at attention in the Marine Corps and getting yelled at for a fuck up. Seriously, if you've never been in the military, you cannot possibly understand how that feels.
I wonder if Holland's actor was ever in the military? That dressing-down felt very credible.
This was soft in comparison but I get what you mean.
Been there, done that...on both sides of the equation.
You know you're truly getting your ass chewed when it feels like gravity has stopped working and your legs are about to give out at any moment.
I was Air Force. My Reprimands were gentler although no less Permanent when it eventually came down to an Article 15.
That admiral really tore them a new one. This was how the series should have been written from the first episode.
Seth Macfarlane, world renowned funny man, wants to do a serious project and needs 10 million from you.
It’s a serious workplace drama.
You droppin money on that and expecting any back?
Or like, would Seth need to insert his trademark skills into the work before you decide to spend?
Seth said he had to pitch it as a comedy for it to get made. He wanted to have season 1 follow the tone of 2 and 3, but had to start it off that way to get the show made.
The burden of command; Despite the fact that I may understand and agree with what you felt you had to do, I still have to “spank” you as part of my position.
This is a great example of accepting responsibility and consequences for your actions, no matter how noble.
Anyone think of a Star Trek character that would be this responsible?
No, they'd all have given passionate speeches about how theirs is the superior morality thus justification of violating a direct order.
Whereas Mercer and Grayson and co found a run around solution, but didn't laude it over their Superior officers when called to task over it.
True Leadership takes accountability, not just credit.
Why is this series not continuing?
These are the most relatable good examples on screen I've come across since M*A*S*H and 'Lean On Me'
It does remind me of the DS9 episode where O'Brien helps Tosk escape. Sisko rips him a new one before subtly revealing that he had a hand in it as well.
@@vypernight Classic Trek of the TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY era have many such examples of what the OP is stating. NuTrek? Not so much. They're right simply because of the color of their skin and what's between their legs, according to the writers, and that's the exact OPPOSITE of what Trek was about.
Technically speaking, Ed Mercer "ordered" Isaac not to perform the surgury
The "technicality" is likely why there was no court martial
man if she was grand mother i would never forget to wash my hands damn
If we don't get any more orville, I'd love some seth macfarlane happening on lower decks
Great scene two main characters and Seth is also writer on the show got drilled really hard.And Admiral was not one dimensional villian in this she just saw a bigger picture.She is not Admiral for nothing.
The admiral was sublime in her scenes. ❤ Stern yet very much empathetically compassionate.
Her shoulder bars shows that shes a five-star admiral. My God, if a five-star is personally chewing out a captain, you know you done screwed up.
A good captain always puts their ship & crew first
Proverbially. The manure has just about to hit the fan! And in more than one way!
I like this scene as it draws the right middle ground between two distinctive positions that most narrative take.
Rather then the half ass way we seen rules held depending on how much the person likes you, they actually get held accountable for breaking the rules and are told point blank they should consider this blind luck that things are not worse instead of a go ahead to keep breaking the rule. Basically every cop show that’s existed since 2000s.
On the other hand the admiral makes the clear point how the rules and procedures exist for very specific and explicit reason that extend far beyond every single slightly morally inconvenient situation rather then say the rules are bad because we don’t get what we want. Basically every cop show since 2000.
For a moment I thought Ed and Kelly got a dressing down from the Admiral because she is once again worshiped as a god by another pre-quantum civilization 😄😆
We see what you did there...
Isacc should have been brought into this meeting.
Wow, a very well-done and accurate ass-chewing on the rug! Been there, done that!
"I dressed you down because I had to, not because I disagreed with you."
I adore this episode!
I've been hearing how THE ORVILLE is more "Star Trek" than current STAR TREK, and now I'm starting to see it myself, despite only seeing clips of the franchises.
This is bringing back flashbacks.
That admiral probably has a higher ranking admiral or government official who yells at her when she screws up? She would just have to stand there and say, "YES SIR!"
True. There's always a bigger fish.
Yes, she has. It's called the Union Council, which represents all members of the Planetary Union among which are the Moclans. But it would seem the Union Council was just being "diplomatic" (and I use that term loosely here) with the Moclans due to them being the primary source of the Unions weapons. But when push came to shove, the Union Council was quick to eject the Moclans from the planetary Union.
Which is why the Admiral's parting words were very important to this scene. She may not like the orders, but as a professional she has to see it through. And what Ed and Kelly did just threw a wrench into that. Her sentiments were probably reflective of the Union Council's own.
The Chain of Screaming
-Barney Stinson
True. When I was a manager in a school district, I used to tell my people that if you can’t handle getting your ass chewed out to don’t bother getting promoted.
The higher you get, the worst the ass chewings are.
@@blockmasterscott that's true in almost all avenues of life, yep.
I would have started crying.
"Timeline got focked up"
"Admiral, here's your vig...500 cigarettes"
She only appeared in one scene but by god Admiral Howland made a lasting impression, she maybe a minor character but she commanded so much power and respect. Her actions by reprimanding Ed and Kelly in private showed that they were in deep shit, she made it clear that as an admiral, she did not approve of their actions but at the end, she showed her humanity by asking them to give her regards to Topa.
She was an admiral first but she was a human as well. In one scene.
I hate the fact the writers managed to make a competetnt officer in one scene, than Star trek discovery has in four seasons.
Man …. I truly love The Orville. It reminds me of when TV used to be made with passion and caring.
That’s a type of a boss knows you are right but want to put in record she talk to you straight
They weren't right. Like the admiral said, they got lucky.
@@danieldickson8591 You can both be right and be lucky in regards to the fallout.
admiral talks to them, captain speaks.. "YOU WILL SPEAK WHEN SPOKEN TO" well damn ain't that what he did?
Would be interesting to see Howland commanding a flagship during a major battle.
I think the admiral probably secretly approved of what Kelly and ed did
Definitely that's why she said that at the end but in the military it has to happen so they knew this was coming anyways
Approval isn't the point. They disobeyed direct orders. The technicality used to excuse that might have worked in a court martial, but they knew the intent of the order. That's easily a career-ending move.
I think it was more “this is where we’re at after alls said and done, so we have to accept it and move on”. She wasn’t agreeing with their actions, she was merely accepting that this was the result.
Years ago I was told a story about a manager who had 2 choices for a high level management position: a lady named Christine and a chap named John. This manager was told by her supervisor to hire John as they needed someone who was looking for a long term career whereas Christine was only semi-dedicated, but the job went to Christine as the manager thought she knew better.
3 months later Christine up and left without any notice, and suddenly there was a gap in management. A month after that The manager wanted to recruit again but her supervisor said she couldn’t because they couldn’t afford it with the budget. If John had been given the job it would’ve set off a series of benefits that would’ve helped everyone, but because one person thought they knew better, everyone got screwed over.
When the manager asked the supervisor if she would be chewed out or lose her job, she was simply told: doing that would be pointless as it won’t change anything. This is where we’re at because you made a choice, and we all have to deal with it.
Lady scared the shit out of me!
She’s right they did get lucky on that fact and she’s respectful because even the admiral knows that the mochlans treated women like trash
Reminds me of when Data had to dress Worf down
Had to tear them a new one on principle. Good leadership
Yeah, seriously. Naomi purposefully put wrinkles into my posters when she mounted them for me.
She's not that bad at what she does. Clearly none of you have actually seen the counter top that she and her mother made in the kitchen downstairs.
6150 Gun Club Trail. It's GORGEOUS when they turn the lights on.
This is a a good scene
I was sympathetic with Topa's predicament but Grayson getting personally involved and Mercer and Isaac's "solution" was crossing the line I think. But made for good drama, lots of Orville episodes about "grey" ethical issues!
The keyword here is context in real life this type of thing would have many peoples opinion but no real direct consequences for anybody other than the individual but in the show this was pretty much a gamble on the lives of hundreds of billions🤔 The admiral was right they did just get lucky😐
Some european armies have a principle where no official outranks the counsciousness of the person who has to execute said order.
Yes and that's the reason why Europe have no real army ony people cosplaying soldiers. Whole point of military is command structure and obeying orders. Now iam not talking about egregious obvious criminal orders like go and blow kindergarten but in general military can only work if people obey because there are other people who are making decisions who have more information and greater picture and most hard part of command is make hard decisions even sacrifice lives.
@@Pedgo1986 And that's why Russia is invading Ukraine, Hamas is (justifiably) doing what it's doing. The lack of european army is a big part of why the western hegemony is failing and your amoral take on military service is a big part of it.
Obviously militaries rely on group cohesion, you're not special for understanding that. But a moral imperative is crucial for any legitimate nation, so clearly that is also crucial. A nation acting immorally is a nation without a will to fight, an impetus to act.
@@crazypantz3492 you tools realize that Europe isn't a country? 🤡
Continents don't have standing armies, countries do. 🤡
She got that Ben Sisko Energy goin on...!!!
I was a 1st lieutenant in Vietnam. The superior officers treated us much worse than this. The worst were the old majors. They were never promoted because of their lack of professionalism and education. Usually they were southerners for some reason. They were clueless about guerrilla warfare. When I first went into the battalion I was told I would spend six months in the field and six months in an administrative position. I spent my entire time in the field. I survived so it is what it is. Now I’m an old man and those bastards are dead. Bravo co 1/2 Big Red One Quan Loi .
Thank you for your service and welcome home.🫡🇺🇸
Admiral Cholesterol was very upset.
Perfect Drill Instructor impression, from a Female Admiral... IMO 😂😂😂....
I had multiple nerdgasms.
Every day at work for me right here
would that translate to you being the problem 😂
As an admiral, she has to be concerned with the strategic consequences to the war that this could have caused. But the human beneath the uniform still recognized that this was a child trying to live her life as she wanted. Well acted scene.
My annual job performance review.
She had a point, it was extremely lucky Moclans didn't pull out of the Union because of this
Tho they did eventually vote the Moclans out of the Union but that's beside the point
You will speak when spoken to. Uhhh... weren't you just speaking to me? ->Brig.
01:47
"Flagrant disregard? Aye. And I would do it again, madam."
The admiral would make them stand at attention and sit herself.
"Are we Dismissed?"-Star trek Enterprise! lol
She's just doing her job. Reminding them of their failure, the larger consequences of their actions, ect. Its mostly an act, because in the end she shows she is on their side.
Wonder if she will work with Janeway. Admiral to admiral. 🖖🏼
Reminds me of that scene from Inglorious Basterds. "Nah, I'll get chewed out... I've been chewed out before."
You cut the video 3 seconds too soon and didnt show their reaction to her final statement.
Great show... aspiring spirit of progress all over hopefully beyend and betterbthen wevcan ever imagine....
A dream for humanity over and above and beyond ... for all thing good and will be good ❤peace😊
She played the commander role well. At first i thought “oh goodie. Another women race empowering. Yaaaaaaaaay…”
But she played the role well with logic. Cold logic and stated how sensitive the situation was without involving herself. Good show
Arrogant but accurate, sir.
I get they went against a direct order but the entire fleet and timeline wouldnt exist if it wasnt for the orville crew sooo...
Amanda Waller is not happy with the Suicide Squad today
Lmao why the "Yes sir"
An Admiral's bars always adds 2 feet to whoever wares them.
Stars not Bars, even in a Navy.
Yeah, the Union really does not like how the Moclans act at times.
At least one of the writers had to have spent time in the military to make this scene as realistic as it was.
Stunning and Brave!
It's actually kind of mind--blowing how The Orville manages to depict a crew that behaves more professionally than any of the Nu-Trek crap.
They deserved that. Risking war over one person...
It shouldn’t have even been a problem. The MOCLANS are the ones in the TOTAL wrong here for their sexist, straight up insulting policies.
It boggles my mind how the Union even put up with their bullshit for so long. They HAD to have known about this well before Tooa was born.
I don’t care if it’s a tradition and culture. Some things should not be controlled by those things. And I am FAIRLY convinced that a Union of planets would have one law set that all planets follow in addition to some local laws. And I sure as hell would think gender identity is protected under Union Law.
Point is, I hate the Moclans now and they bloody well deserved to be kicked out of the Union.
"You might not ask that Lieutenant if it was your child" Beverly Crusher-Suddenly human.
@@iainwhite8617 Different situation. Here, they're risking a lot of people's children.
I see you too read "The Illiad"
Why did the Admiral let them off so easily? They should’ve been relieved of command immediately. Then arrested, Court martialed, and executed.
She was in Star Trek TNG. And she played an Admiral.
Interesting
I love how they just sit there and let their asses get chewed out
What else were they gonna do 😂
i miss this show