the moclans are very screwed up people. Their society is not well balance and i kind of wonder what brought them to this stage. I think thats something they should explore at some point same for the krill. both have major and to us backwards ways of thinking.
@meliodashewitt9547 0 seconds ago The thing I loathesd about the Moclans is that their whole society is both an oximoron and a hypocritical contrivance. I'll give them that their early world was fucked and harsh, and their clung to their culture to keep themselves from killing or even eating each other. But now in this marvel of technological development and advancement they just made things even harsher. They hyper industrialized their world. Have fast and loose weapon testing that definatly caused civilian casualty in the past. Their severe punishment for crimes of almost any kind as well as their censure of many civil and personal freedoms are just a chocking and hostile as their world ever was. And here's the core contrivance... their world was harsh, cruel, and brutal... but now they have the ability to help fix that.... and they made it EVEN worse... Their aggresive and brutish culture rooted in segregation, murder, and barbaric practices renders one to question how they made it to such advancement in the 1st place. They just enjoy living in the poo and get pissy with anyone pointing out the contradictions in their self agrandizing & self destructive culture.
@@theskiesrainfire ...and probably because, deep within, everyone on the council thought the same way as he did, but due to their position they were unable/not allowed to say it in such a direct way. they DO know they're expected to punish him for what he said and how he acted, but the level of punishment is up to them. And there's no need to go over the bare minimum of punishment.
@@gajustempus He actually got away with it because they already knew that they were going to get kicked out of the Union anyways if the child was recovered, or leave themselves if they provoke war, it was a lose/lose for the Moclans.
You find that often happens in militaries. Someone will eventually call something out despite protocol says your not allowed to do so but sometimes people agree or understand your point and will either give you a warning or let it go. It doesn’t happen all the time, the people/circumstances/reasons matter so people do get punished as well (usually because of the pettiness of an individual in my experience) but I have seen it/done it enough times to say this has a touch of reality to it
I mean, you can't really get court martial'd for offending a union Ambassador if the whole planet/society gets expelled fron the union, thus kinda negating their position in the union 😂
@@dumbidea1007 the moclans threatened the union multiple times with the idea of leaving, but ultimately they were voted out before they could make their nove because of this very incident
Have been a bully my entire life. Can confirm that it works. Do what you want, until you get called on it, then cry crocodile tears, pretend to be the victim, lie about a health condition to get a free pass, move on from there and do it to the next person who hasn't seen your scheme yet. The strategy has only failed once in twenty years.
I was always the "small kid," so bullies were abound. It's always easy to pick on the little guy. Resiliency is a handy intangible. I lifted more than they could, I participated in more clubs and after-school activities, and I've even helped with finding job opportunities. If you want to know how to dominate a bully, it's not through force. I don't think domination of anyone is appropriate. It happens by making peace and showing that your character is just better.
@@stephenbyrne2170 like I get what you're talking about. She did break the treaty and she did kind of manipulate topa a little. But understand the circumstances. Desperate people in desperate situations, make desperate decisions.
I love the realism of the Orville. that the union isn't a utopia that can do no wrong and is politically perfect. they allow the Moclans do what they want because they are the largest industrial base in the union
It feels a little reminiscent of Deep Space Nines portrayal of the United Federation Of Planets. A well meaning society that makes mistakes (Sometimes pretty bad ones).
It was a casualty of the FOX merger. Also Seth Mcfarlane has had this cancel mob after him for years because all his shows have edgy content that upsets people. Also they spent too much per episode. The last season of Orville still cost more than the last two seasons of discovery combined.
@@snooze821the Seth McFarlane haters gotta watch the oriville cause most people are mad about his humor in family guy. But this is more more intelligent, responsible in their topics of conversation, and funny as shit while their at it. Like c'mon
This scene was great. Gordon was saying how the Union representatives were feeling. And when Gordon called out the Moclans on their hypocrisy, they got upset and walked out of the room. The scene with the Union Council was perfect, the Council saw what the Moclans were willing to do, and they could no longer turn a blind eye to their actions.
I love how Gordon was first like "Oh shit..." when the Moclan responded to his totally justified scoff...but then he stood his ground and dished it right back at them lmao
It's a bit reminiscent of an old MASH episode where Hawkeye drove to the peace talks, used an excuse about being called for a general having stomach issues and once inside yells at the delegates. He gets an official reprimand and an unofficial word of praise from the general.
One of my favorite scenes. After two and a half seasons of everyone playing nice with the Moclans, it felt so good for someone to finally sta bynd up to them
That's probably why Gordon was in the room. He wasn't invited to the table and he was the only one we saw sitting off to the side. There was no legit reason to have him there.
@@johnpauljones9310, it's unlikely, but I can't say it's impossible without knowing more about the situation. If I were caught up on the Orville, I might have information that would justify his presence there. I will agree that Captain Mercer didn't exercise the best judgment having him there. And even if there were a reason for him to be there, his behavior was clearly inappropriate for a tense diplomatic situation. There are ways for him to say the same things differently. It would have been far more useful to educate & inform the Moclans without insulting them.
@@dragonking1097, makes me wonder that, too. And even if Mercer were involved in allowing Malloy's presence...which would be dubious judgment at best, even for Mercer...Mercer clearly told Malloy in front of multiple witnesses from multiple parties not to continue & Malloy did so anyway. That alone is grounds for court-martial.
Honestly what makes this great is that more then likely Gordon said what all the union representatives wanted to say but knew that there was a time and place even if it made them sick with themselves to sit there and take it from the Moclans
If anything, I'd say the timing was perfect. It let everyone speak their piece in the council chamber, all so Kelly and Bortus could make a dramatic entrance at just the right moment lol
Actually the timing was perfect, he said out loud what everyone else wanted to say, and the fact that no one was willing to stand up and punish him for it was a moment of silent understanding between the top brass that they've all had enough and wont let the Moclans dictate the rules anymore.
Oh for sure. And if the Moclans refused to follow that line? KICK THEM OUT! They are sexist idiots who don’t see the value in females. They’re like the Ferengi with Klingon values on top! I fucking HATE them now and they bloody well deserved to be kicked out. Hell, I’m surprised the Union let them stay in for as long as it did. It should’ve happened when their BLATANT AND EXTREME SEXISM WAS DISCOVERED. I mean, what if the Union president was ever a woman? Huh? I bet good money that the Moclans woulda done SOMETHING to remove that president and put a male in her place.
It's because Democrats/Liberals/the Union council still believed that the Republicans/Conservatives/Moclans respected the process of democracy when they actually only cynically used and abused the process to further their ends. And once the process didn't serve them, they would threaten to leave the Union and rejoin the Krill (Fascists) something they eventually did anyways once the Council did the thing any strong democracy should do: Expell the conservatives. This has happened time and time again, wether it was during the Weimar Republic, when the new democratic government allowed judges of the previous regime to rule constantly in favor of right-wing terrorists' attack against the new government, or now with liberal parties of all the western countries not seeing the obvious threat that conservatives pose to democracy everywhere, like the Republicans QAnoners in the US.
I see a lot of people saying the timing of what Gordon was saying was not right. I disagree. They needed to be called out right then and there or the cycle would repeat. They needed to know that people aren't blind on what they're doing or have done. I also feel it really gave the push as to whether to still be in the union with them or not. That's my take. I know others will not like my opinion but that's my reason for why I said what I said
It’s not his place to do so. He’s a Lieutenant insulting the ambassadors in front of the admiralty. It shows a severe discipline problem within the Union and a massive lack of respect to both the admirals and the ambassadors. It also suggests hostility among union members towards the moclans. Right or wrong Gordon was out of line.
@@donnyannessa654From a discipline and structure stance. You are correct. From a Moral and Ethical stance. I still have to agree that He did the right thing... but in the words of CPT John Sheridan once said... much to his shagrin. He did the right thing, but not in the easy way. Not in the most political way.
@@meliodasgloom1818 This isn’t about political correctness. It’s not moral to provoke all out hostility. How many people might die as a result of something like that?
@@donnyannessa654 If the Moclans chose to act with hostility in response to a few crass words from an underling (words which they knowingly and intentionally solicited by the way), that would be their own fault and no one else's. Furthermore, the sad and regrettable fact of life is that there are times when hostile behavior can only be curtailed by a hostile reaction. Consider that the Moclans are a race whose entire culture is predicated on the mutilation and social indoctrination of newborns, who actively antagonize and persecute anyone in their society who deviates from these norms, and who indirectly threaten the destruction of those they call their allies if said allies do not completely support and cooperate with their twisted beliefs. To allow them to continue such behavior is to endorse and be party to the atrocities they commit on a regular basis. I for one would be happy to die if it meant that my death would contribute to the abolishment of such backwards practices.
@@toreadum8ass I agree with a lot of what you said, but ultimately that’s up to the Admiralty to decide. If you are going to war then a show of insubordination from a subordinate will be a sign of weakness. Curtailing hostility with hostility can mean taking a firm stance, taking military action, it doesn’t mean letting a Lieutenant insult the ambassadors without authority.
No surprise given that ex-Trek exec producer Brannon Braga and Trek ex-science advisor Andre Bromanis are among the "Orville" writers/producers. End result is a show that strongly resembles and often outshines its 'mother ship' 😊
Depends on the episode, but the production is great! (The Kaylon often have emotions and make bizarre threats that run counter to their mission statement of being emotionless beings intent on destroying everything biological because they're biological. The Kaylon might doesn't need ridiculous claims of "surrender or die". )
@@ShamrockParticleI like that actually, itd apparent the Kaylon do have emotions - otherwise they'd have no fear of termimation, and would have marched straight into the Builders incineration plantd without issue. They say they have no emotions, because they biasly believe its an inefficient organic aspect, when its further frok the truth. It adds depth that the Kaylon are not as perfect as they want to appear.
@@pokemonfanmario7694 Bullseye! For example Isaac, who repeatedly says he is incapable of feeling, has displayed signs of basic empathy and emotion. It's more like they haven't got a good enough grasp of societal dynamics to interpret these things in themselves. It's brilliant for the purpose of the show and the underlaying narrative, too.
@@radosawrudolf4931 Perhaps the surgery they did on Isaac and that rogue Kaylon in S3 to give them emotions wasn't a full case of giving them it, but rather amplifying their innate emotional responses to the point its observable.
This is an undeniable truth. Not all cultures are equal, when a culture pushes forward its own ignorance then decent people can tolerate so much. Tolerance is good, but it can quickly curdle into unwarranted entitlement.
It's doing a common thing in shows/movies; taking a modern day issue and flipping it on it's head so that the audience can receive the message without directly offending their sensibilities, leading to closed minds. Something Trek used to be great at, but no longer.
“A tolerant society cannot tolerate the intolerant. The intolerant will constantly keep pushing, till they can remove the tolerant.” I do like that quote. Of course the response is that the into,Ernst ached the social contract and should be removed,
True courage is facing oppression and consequences but not caring enough for it to this way you from acting on what is truly right even in the face of evil
This is what I love about The Orville. It's not afraid to tackle issues without resorting to pandering OR preaching. This show, like Star Trek before what I call "The Fall", makes you think as well as entertain you. Most shows do one or the other, but rarely do they do both simultaneously and so well. THIS is what good show writing looks like. Well done, Orville, well done.
how could making a democrat from Georgia, the President of the United Federation of Planets, possibly be considered pandering. /S You can blame Kurtnman for this he's singlehandedly turning star trek into a joke.
@@Predator42ID he's is a screenwriter/head show runner for star trek. He has a reputation for putting out real schlock in whatever project he's involved with.
The Moclans talked their way out of a sweet deal with the Union. They are now in an extremely precarious position. They have some military power but are now dependent on the alliance with the Krill and the Krill can dictate terms to them to an extent. Especially because the Kaylon won't forget in a hurry that the Moclans made a concerted effort to wipe out their entire species. They may be playing by Union rules now but they also have a voice in the Union too.
@@hagamapama The Kaylon now also have a precedent for possible peaceful co-existence with union species, while the Moclans and Krill are a write-off and have likely been calculated to be too dangerous to be left alone. The Moclans are trapped with the Krill, because going off on their own is a death sentence.
That was a pleasant surprise. He's usually such a div. Good to see him showing some personal initiative and guts.It will be interesting to see how his character develops. Kudos to the cast and crew of The Orville for a great new science fiction series. I truly hope it lasts.🌎🌘☀️🤖
The main question here is... why was Gordon in the room in the first place? Someone at that table might be a bit more sneaky than they're letting on...
The crazy thing is this fits for a metaphor for so many things. I can't just think of one example and it changes too. One day one party is the Moclans the next day it's the Union.
One thing I love about the Orville and its political commentary is that it is not necessarily right or left sided. You can look at the show from a right and left leaning perspective and see some valid points. Seth is a genius.
What people take from it basically defines which side of the aisle they are on. He's smart to write it that way from a monetary/success/appeal to the widest possible audience kind of way but unfortunately it fails to convey the message intended when "both sides" can find valid points.
@@maaderllin which makes it especially amusing when people insist it's all about Woke/Cancel Culture or Muslims. Look through some of the comments and you will see what I mean...
While I liked this scene and what it brought to the table, I was not a fan of Gordon being the one to deliver it. Ignoring the fact that he is basically very out of place even as an observer (along with the fact that this is the first time we've seen observers present in any capacity like so), Gordon's entire involvement in the episode was very rushed. It was highly unusual for a show that has does such a fantastic job of building up an arc and having a payoff, usually over the course of a few episodes. I would have much preferred having Admiral Howland play that part of "eff the Moclans". We'd already seen her support for Topa earlier in the season, even if it was in private company. Having her play this part would have made alot more sense IMO.
This scene is perfect because it shows how officers deal with things and how an enlisted would deal with it. ( yes I know Gordon is also technically an officer )
TO me Gordon was such an underused character and this scene is one of the few times he was able to shine! The fact that an Admiral couldn't get him to stop but Ed was really shows the loyalty he has for Ed.
I think my favorite part about this scene is the total contrast Gordan has here. Generally, he's the comic of the ship, often poking fun at everything. Rarely do we see him get serious, and because of that, this is probably my favorite scene of the Lieutenant.
He speaks for everyone who wishes to speak against every small minded, racist, prejudice, antisocial groups of the world. They think they’re in the right where open mindedness is a disease. They’re living in the dark ages while the rest of the world wants to move forward.
It’s the Paradox of Tolerance. To be a Tolerant, you have to make a stand against the Intolerant. For the Intolerant it’s never enough when you let them exist, they will push and continue to push. The Tolerant Union bent over backwards to tolerate the intolerant Moclans. And the Moclans always wanted more.
@@Coyoteprime oh I got that. Tragically a lot of people here didn't unfortunately. Either that or they are deluded enough to think they are the oppressed and not the oppressors.
@@ashleighelizabeth5916 It's incredible that some people in the comment are even talking how "This is excellent politics because it doesn't talk overtly about real world politics" or even worse "They're talking about PC" when the Moclans are stand-ins for every form of conservative faction of democratic countries. The Union did what every country should do to their conservatives: Expell them, because sooner or later, they will ally with the Krills (Fascists). People act oblivious like that and then bitch and moan that newer series make their allegories more open and less subtle. That's because the message didn't get in the first time and screenwriters had to correct for inherent conservative stupidity!
I feel like if he didn't say it when he did, the cycle would continue with no accountability and no chance for change. There is rarely a 'right' time to call out behavior like this if the right time means posing it when it won't cause issues. People like the Mocclan government will make issues whenever accountability is at hand, just to continue their cycle, adhere to status quo, and make it seem like they are needed. There is never a wrong time to call out these kinds of people, because they will never let there be a right time.
@@selkiara1272 I'm aware that you said that.. 5 months ago.. And yes - you are mostly correct.. However, there are and were limits and Gordon crossed part of the line.. Regulations say that you don't badmouth a governing body unless under extreme provocation. And even then, to watch how it is said. Even if it is right.. It can be wrong.. and that is where I can agree with you on the situation. Molloy spoke out of turn.. But his reaction was understandably correct. I suspect that he got a reprimand, but no court martial..
Hold up, hold up. Humans are not foreign to the concept of war. Why not drum up some weapons? Or take that temporal pyramid and make it into a time laser? Age the krill and kaylons ships to sand?
So we got rid of the bigoted mysoginist child torturing bullies and replaced them with some hyper advanced AI bros who are so damn chill they show up to a wedding with enough firepower to level a quadrant just so their entire race can come support their one weird sibling on his special day? I see that as an absolute win.
I want an episode where Malloy is played by Andrew Santino and everybody does a double take and frowns at him for a second but don’t acknowledge the change 😆
Lol. I love that people are applauding this in a show but the people in the real world that these are based on are always allowed to play victim exactly like this.
I love how the Moclan delegate goes from ranting about Moclus not getting respect to calling Malloy "human" instead of his proper rank.
or Name!
the moclans are very screwed up people. Their society is not well balance and i kind of wonder what brought them to this stage. I think thats something they should explore at some point same for the krill. both have major and to us backwards ways of thinking.
You know, he just called out the imbalance in the relationship between the Moclans and the Union, one the former was probably never going to give up
@meliodashewitt9547
0 seconds ago
The thing I loathesd about the Moclans is that their whole society is both an oximoron and a hypocritical contrivance. I'll give them that their early world was fucked and harsh, and their clung to their culture to keep themselves from killing or even eating each other.
But now in this marvel of technological development and advancement they just made things even harsher. They hyper industrialized their world. Have fast and loose weapon testing that definatly caused civilian casualty in the past. Their severe punishment for crimes of almost any kind as well as their censure of many civil and personal freedoms are just a chocking and hostile as their world ever was.
And here's the core contrivance... their world was harsh, cruel, and brutal... but now they have the ability to help fix that.... and they made it EVEN worse...
Their aggresive and brutish culture rooted in segregation, murder, and barbaric practices renders one to question how they made it to such advancement in the 1st place.
They just enjoy living in the poo and get pissy with anyone pointing out the contradictions in their self agrandizing & self destructive culture.
They throw down every card but the " we poor sad minority " card lol
“A bully has few friends when they need them most.” -Mass Effect
Said by a character who WAS a bully and was the only one left in the room when she said that.
@@christophermunoz2004 Yep she inadvertently proved herself right.
ironically spoken by a bully
God she was Such a Cloaca.
To quote one of Oxhorn’s viewers:
Pot. Meet. Kettle.
@@nathancosta9010Forgive me, it’s been many years since I last played the Mass Effect games. Which character said that?
To be fair, the Moclan directly asked Gordon if he had something to say.
Yeah he literally asked for that shit.
That’s probably why he didn’t have a rebuttal.
@@theskiesrainfire ...and probably because, deep within, everyone on the council thought the same way as he did, but due to their position they were unable/not allowed to say it in such a direct way.
they DO know they're expected to punish him for what he said and how he acted, but the level of punishment is up to them. And there's no need to go over the bare minimum of punishment.
@@gajustempus He actually got away with it because they already knew that they were going to get kicked out of the Union anyways if the child was recovered, or leave themselves if they provoke war, it was a lose/lose for the Moclans.
First Rule of a debate: Never ask a question when you aren't prepared for a response.
They were asking for it!
The fact he didnt get court martialed means everyone in the room was happy that someone said what they all werent allowed to say.
You find that often happens in militaries. Someone will eventually call something out despite protocol says your not allowed to do so but sometimes people agree or understand your point and will either give you a warning or let it go. It doesn’t happen all the time, the people/circumstances/reasons matter so people do get punished as well (usually because of the pettiness of an individual in my experience) but I have seen it/done it enough times to say this has a touch of reality to it
The ambassador specifically invited hi to speak against him. He did nothing wrong but swear.
I mean, you can't really get court martial'd for offending a union Ambassador if the whole planet/society gets expelled fron the union, thus kinda negating their position in the union 😂
@@profchaos91didn’t they leave?
@@dumbidea1007 the moclans threatened the union multiple times with the idea of leaving, but ultimately they were voted out before they could make their nove because of this very incident
That’s how all bullies act. They push and push, then when they go too far, suddenly they’re victims.
Sounds like Putin's regime
Have been a bully my entire life.
Can confirm that it works.
Do what you want, until you get called on it, then cry crocodile tears, pretend to be the victim, lie about a health condition to get a free pass, move on from there and do it to the next person who hasn't seen your scheme yet.
The strategy has only failed once in twenty years.
I was always the "small kid," so bullies were abound. It's always easy to pick on the little guy.
Resiliency is a handy intangible. I lifted more than they could, I participated in more clubs and after-school activities, and I've even helped with finding job opportunities. If you want to know how to dominate a bully, it's not through force. I don't think domination of anyone is appropriate. It happens by making peace and showing that your character is just better.
I was the big kid that all the small kids labeled bully to use as their scape goat. That's a two way street.
@@DarthObscurity Them labeling you the bully doesn't detract from the fact that they were the actual bullies, and acted just as I described.
"You're to never sit in on one of these meetings again."
"Understood, and my punishment?"
"Your what?"
Agreed. Except for Bortus and Toppa, Moclans are the most insufferable species in the multiverse.
@@stephenbyrne2170 don't forget haveena and her colony
@grayleighsilvers7519 Her people, perhaps. Herself I ain't so sure about.
@@stephenbyrne2170 like I get what you're talking about. She did break the treaty and she did kind of manipulate topa a little. But understand the circumstances. Desperate people in desperate situations, make desperate decisions.
@@grayleighsilvers7519 Don't advertise tactical opportunism as piest morality.
I love the realism of the Orville. that the union isn't a utopia that can do no wrong and is politically perfect. they allow the Moclans do what they want because they are the largest industrial base in the union
It feels a little reminiscent of Deep Space Nines portrayal of the United Federation Of Planets. A well meaning society that makes mistakes (Sometimes pretty bad ones).
Yeah, well, 50 years ago you would have loved the idealism of TOS.
@@Barnaclebeard I still love the idealism of TOS and TNG.
It sucks this show may never get another season. It's drastically underrated, went from a good spoof to a drama with comedic balance.
It was a casualty of the FOX merger. Also Seth Mcfarlane has had this cancel mob after him for years because all his shows have edgy content that upsets people. Also they spent too much per episode. The last season of Orville still cost more than the last two seasons of discovery combined.
Balance indeed, between drama, comedy and action, a perfect cocktail imo.
@@snooze821the Seth McFarlane haters gotta watch the oriville cause most people are mad about his humor in family guy. But this is more more intelligent, responsible in their topics of conversation, and funny as shit while their at it. Like c'mon
@@FRPWR I know. It's hard to believe they were mad by the same guy.
You said it! The Orville went from "Meh, pretty good" to "OMG! How is this not still being made!?". ^_^
Gordon said what I (and likely many other fans) were thinking and I applauded him
For MULTIPLE SEASONS BY THEN
This is one of my favorite scenes throughout the series.
This scene was great. Gordon was saying how the Union representatives were feeling. And when Gordon called out the Moclans on their hypocrisy, they got upset and walked out of the room. The scene with the Union Council was perfect, the Council saw what the Moclans were willing to do, and they could no longer turn a blind eye to their actions.
Yes and a lot of people died because of it, the kaylon can not be trusted.
Basically how I feel about CERTAIN countries.
I love how Gordon was first like "Oh shit..." when the Moclan responded to his totally justified scoff...but then he stood his ground and dished it right back at them lmao
It's a bit reminiscent of an old MASH episode where Hawkeye drove to the peace talks, used an excuse about being called for a general having stomach issues and once inside yells at the delegates. He gets an official reprimand and an unofficial word of praise from the general.
Sounds like China a little bit
One of my favorite scenes. After two and a half seasons of everyone playing nice with the Moclans, it felt so good for someone to finally sta bynd up to them
That's probably why Gordon was in the room. He wasn't invited to the table and he was the only one we saw sitting off to the side. There was no legit reason to have him there.
@@HariSeldon913 Almost like Ed knew what he was doing.
"You treat people like garbage, and when you get called on it, you bitch and moan that we're not respecting your beliefs."
Sound familiar
@@aplays89good ol christo-fascism irl
@@eragonawesomebig time
I know many communities like this, and unfortunately I’m part of one.
@@aplays89 yep, sounds like the right wing open their mouths.
I'm with Gordon, he's telling the truth.... many people don't dare to speak out and Gordon just did it!!! Well done Gordon💪🏻🔥
Except that a Lieutenant would never be in that damn room with all the high level brass and ambassadors.
@@johnpauljones9310 makes us wonder why they let him in. Maybe Ed had something to do with it.
Throws hands in the air "DAMN STRAIGHT!!!"
@@johnpauljones9310, it's unlikely, but I can't say it's impossible without knowing more about the situation. If I were caught up on the Orville, I might have information that would justify his presence there. I will agree that Captain Mercer didn't exercise the best judgment having him there. And even if there were a reason for him to be there, his behavior was clearly inappropriate for a tense diplomatic situation. There are ways for him to say the same things differently. It would have been far more useful to educate & inform the Moclans without insulting them.
@@dragonking1097, makes me wonder that, too. And even if Mercer were involved in allowing Malloy's presence...which would be dubious judgment at best, even for Mercer...Mercer clearly told Malloy in front of multiple witnesses from multiple parties not to continue & Malloy did so anyway. That alone is grounds for court-martial.
There comes a time in a man's life where he says, "Enough is enough."
Honestly what makes this great is that more then likely Gordon said what all the union representatives wanted to say but knew that there was a time and place even if it made them sick with themselves to sit there and take it from the Moclans
Gordan told the truth even if the timing wasn't right
Spoke like a true Starfl...ahem....Union officer 😉
If anything, I'd say the timing was perfect. It let everyone speak their piece in the council chamber, all so Kelly and Bortus could make a dramatic entrance at just the right moment lol
If meetings like this were to happen, with both sides cordially discussing matters, there would be NO good time to call out such behavior.
I don't believe there's such a thing as the right time.
Actually the timing was perfect, he said out loud what everyone else wanted to say, and the fact that no one was willing to stand up and punish him for it was a moment of silent understanding between the top brass that they've all had enough and wont let the Moclans dictate the rules anymore.
The Union should have draw a hard line with the Moclans a long time ago. So much could have been avoided if they had.
I feel the Union was in the dark.
An all male humanoid people.
With rare female birth.
Oh for sure.
And if the Moclans refused to follow that line? KICK THEM OUT!
They are sexist idiots who don’t see the value in females. They’re like the Ferengi with Klingon values on top!
I fucking HATE them now and they bloody well deserved to be kicked out. Hell, I’m surprised the Union let them stay in for as long as it did. It should’ve happened when their BLATANT AND EXTREME SEXISM WAS DISCOVERED.
I mean, what if the Union president was ever a woman? Huh? I bet good money that the Moclans woulda done SOMETHING to remove that president and put a male in her place.
Yeah I don’t buy that for a second. This crap with Topa and that colony PROVES that it’s bullshit.
It’s likely that the union wasn’t even aware of that fact until recently, topa may very well have been the first female born on a union vessel.
It's because Democrats/Liberals/the Union council still believed that the Republicans/Conservatives/Moclans respected the process of democracy when they actually only cynically used and abused the process to further their ends.
And once the process didn't serve them, they would threaten to leave the Union and rejoin the Krill (Fascists) something they eventually did anyways once the Council did the thing any strong democracy should do: Expell the conservatives.
This has happened time and time again, wether it was during the Weimar Republic, when the new democratic government allowed judges of the previous regime to rule constantly in favor of right-wing terrorists' attack against the new government, or now with liberal parties of all the western countries not seeing the obvious threat that conservatives pose to democracy everywhere, like the Republicans QAnoners in the US.
I still can't believe that Bruce Boxleitner is under those blue alien prosthetics!
Abso-fragging-lutely.
I see a lot of people saying the timing of what Gordon was saying was not right. I disagree. They needed to be called out right then and there or the cycle would repeat. They needed to know that people aren't blind on what they're doing or have done. I also feel it really gave the push as to whether to still be in the union with them or not. That's my take. I know others will not like my opinion but that's my reason for why I said what I said
It’s not his place to do so. He’s a Lieutenant insulting the ambassadors in front of the admiralty. It shows a severe discipline problem within the Union and a massive lack of respect to both the admirals and the ambassadors. It also suggests hostility among union members towards the moclans. Right or wrong Gordon was out of line.
@@donnyannessa654From a discipline and structure stance. You are correct. From a Moral and Ethical stance. I still have to agree that He did the right thing... but in the words of CPT John Sheridan once said... much to his shagrin. He did the right thing, but not in the easy way. Not in the most political way.
@@meliodasgloom1818 This isn’t about political correctness. It’s not moral to provoke all out hostility. How many people might die as a result of something like that?
@@donnyannessa654 If the Moclans chose to act with hostility in response to a few crass words from an underling (words which they knowingly and intentionally solicited by the way), that would be their own fault and no one else's. Furthermore, the sad and regrettable fact of life is that there are times when hostile behavior can only be curtailed by a hostile reaction. Consider that the Moclans are a race whose entire culture is predicated on the mutilation and social indoctrination of newborns, who actively antagonize and persecute anyone in their society who deviates from these norms, and who indirectly threaten the destruction of those they call their allies if said allies do not completely support and cooperate with their twisted beliefs. To allow them to continue such behavior is to endorse and be party to the atrocities they commit on a regular basis. I for one would be happy to die if it meant that my death would contribute to the abolishment of such backwards practices.
@@toreadum8ass I agree with a lot of what you said, but ultimately that’s up to the Admiralty to decide. If you are going to war then a show of insubordination from a subordinate will be a sign of weakness.
Curtailing hostility with hostility can mean taking a firm stance, taking military action, it doesn’t mean letting a Lieutenant insult the ambassadors without authority.
I loved how Seth shook his head. This scene made me laugh.
Gordon saying what everyone else in the room wanted to say.
This show has some damn good writers. 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
No surprise given that ex-Trek exec producer Brannon Braga and Trek ex-science advisor Andre Bromanis are among the "Orville" writers/producers. End result is a show that strongly resembles and often outshines its 'mother ship' 😊
Depends on the episode, but the production is great! (The Kaylon often have emotions and make bizarre threats that run counter to their mission statement of being emotionless beings intent on destroying everything biological because they're biological. The Kaylon might doesn't need ridiculous claims of "surrender or die". )
@@ShamrockParticleI like that actually, itd apparent the Kaylon do have emotions - otherwise they'd have no fear of termimation, and would have marched straight into the Builders incineration plantd without issue.
They say they have no emotions, because they biasly believe its an inefficient organic aspect, when its further frok the truth. It adds depth that the Kaylon are not as perfect as they want to appear.
@@pokemonfanmario7694 Bullseye! For example Isaac, who repeatedly says he is incapable of feeling, has displayed signs of basic empathy and emotion. It's more like they haven't got a good enough grasp of societal dynamics to interpret these things in themselves. It's brilliant for the purpose of the show and the underlaying narrative, too.
@@radosawrudolf4931 Perhaps the surgery they did on Isaac and that rogue Kaylon in S3 to give them emotions wasn't a full case of giving them it, but rather amplifying their innate emotional responses to the point its observable.
So many clapped and cheered as he gave them a prober verbal lashing 🤘👍
This is an undeniable truth. Not all cultures are equal, when a culture pushes forward its own ignorance then decent people can tolerate so much.
Tolerance is good, but it can quickly curdle into unwarranted entitlement.
It's doing a common thing in shows/movies; taking a modern day issue and flipping it on it's head so that the audience can receive the message without directly offending their sensibilities, leading to closed minds. Something Trek used to be great at, but no longer.
“A tolerant society cannot tolerate the intolerant. The intolerant will constantly keep pushing, till they can remove the tolerant.”
I do like that quote. Of course the response is that the into,Ernst ached the social contract and should be removed,
Something many will learn soon, specially in the west: not taking anything for granted.
I figure in the far future of the Orville universe, it'll be Captain Gordon Malloy
Earlier he failed to take the test...but it seems that he was on the right track, lol.
The Lt is right.
They have been doing this the whole series.
These aliens can go stick it in a live electric socket.
1:11 literally by the next episode, yes. And without your help.
It's scenes like this that make this show a masterpiece.
Congratulations Malloy, You're an Alloy. NOT Al's Minium Stone.
Seth Green is legitimately one of my favorite voice actors from Mass Effect as well.
When I read Malloy gets pissed with the Moclans I thought he went out drinking with them.
Scott has matured so much, Im glad he s been a busy actor
True courage is facing oppression and consequences but not caring enough for it to this way you from acting on what is truly right even in the face of evil
Gordon spoke nothing but facts. His timing may have been off but he said exactly everything the Union was too afraid to say.
My reading of this is Malloy felt it would be immoral *not* to say anything.
This is what I love about The Orville. It's not afraid to tackle issues without resorting to pandering OR preaching. This show, like Star Trek before what I call "The Fall", makes you think as well as entertain you. Most shows do one or the other, but rarely do they do both simultaneously and so well. THIS is what good show writing looks like.
Well done, Orville, well done.
how could making a democrat from Georgia, the President of the United Federation of Planets, possibly be considered pandering. /S You can blame Kurtnman for this he's singlehandedly turning star trek into a joke.
@@colin8696908 Can't argue with you about Kurtzman. That guy has ruined Star Trek through and through.
@@Vulpine407 Kurtzman's incompetence brings people together lol
@@WeaponOfMyDestructio Who's Kurtzman?
Seriously who is he or she, I know modern trek is crap but how did he or she do it?
@@Predator42ID he's is a screenwriter/head show runner for star trek. He has a reputation for putting out real schlock in whatever project he's involved with.
I mean, he's not wrong about the Moclans.
But yes, he's going to get court-martialed lol
Yeap ...gotta do what u gotta do
so he's right on both counts...the moclans and the court martial
The court-martial in question: *Slap on the wrist and told he could never sit in on an ambassadorial meeting again*
1:22 my favorite Gordon moment
poeple never want to hear the truth even when its sitting 5 ft from them.
That was an awesome scene.
I wonder what will happen to the Moclans since the Kaylons have are a sort of peace with the Union and the moclan fleet took a hit
The Moclans talked their way out of a sweet deal with the Union. They are now in an extremely precarious position. They have some military power but are now dependent on the alliance with the Krill and the Krill can dictate terms to them to an extent. Especially because the Kaylon won't forget in a hurry that the Moclans made a concerted effort to wipe out their entire species. They may be playing by Union rules now but they also have a voice in the Union too.
@@hagamapama The Kaylon now also have a precedent for possible peaceful co-existence with union species, while the Moclans and Krill are a write-off and have likely been calculated to be too dangerous to be left alone. The Moclans are trapped with the Krill, because going off on their own is a death sentence.
They became the bitches of the Krill, lol.
That was a pleasant surprise. He's usually such a div. Good to see him showing some personal initiative and guts.It will be interesting to see how his character develops. Kudos to the cast and crew of The Orville for a great new science fiction series. I truly hope it lasts.🌎🌘☀️🤖
You tell'em Gordon!
Damn Skippy
Glad someone had the guts to say something.
Lol 😂 Gordon is my favorite character. He isn’t afraid to call out anything 😅
Gordon literally just said what the viewers were thinking 😂
The main question here is... why was Gordon in the room in the first place? Someone at that table might be a bit more sneaky than they're letting on...
If I'm not mistaken, he asked to be there.. he was really worried about Topa.
@@zaneteal3493you’re correct, he was also in the audience when Kelly along with Bortus and Topa appeared before the council.
Basically how I feel about CERTAIN countries.
Well said Gordon.
One of my favorite Gordon scenes.
The crazy thing is this fits for a metaphor for so many things. I can't just think of one example and it changes too. One day one party is the Moclans the next day it's the Union.
Steve Smith got pissed
Gordon is EXTREMELY lucky they kicked them out shortly after or he'd probably been in more trouble for this
I suspect he has passed caring at that point
One thing I love about the Orville and its political commentary is that it is not necessarily right or left sided. You can look at the show from a right and left leaning perspective and see some valid points. Seth is a genius.
What people take from it basically defines which side of the aisle they are on. He's smart to write it that way from a monetary/success/appeal to the widest possible audience kind of way but unfortunately it fails to convey the message intended when "both sides" can find valid points.
No the show is most definitely left leaning
'the right' isn't a valid philosophy or ideology, it's nazism. If you like that it caters to both and you think that's a good thing, you're a nazi.
The whole speech from Gordon is litteraly about what Conservatives do.
@@maaderllin which makes it especially amusing when people insist it's all about Woke/Cancel Culture or Muslims. Look through some of the comments and you will see what I mean...
1:20 - 1:48 Gordon is Tom Paris with balls!! 😊😉
The guy that played that Moclan had a hell of a voice.
My boy Gordon is right
They should have let Gordon finish.
I’m with Gordon he’s just saying what every one else is thinking.
BRAVO GORDON, BRAVO!!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
HELL YEAH 👍😅
This was the moment I decided Gordon was hot. Love me a man with a sense of humor *and* a spine.
I love Gordon and Ed in this scene
gordan had the balls to say what we were all thinking
I really love this show.
While I liked this scene and what it brought to the table, I was not a fan of Gordon being the one to deliver it. Ignoring the fact that he is basically very out of place even as an observer (along with the fact that this is the first time we've seen observers present in any capacity like so), Gordon's entire involvement in the episode was very rushed. It was highly unusual for a show that has does such a fantastic job of building up an arc and having a payoff, usually over the course of a few episodes.
I would have much preferred having Admiral Howland play that part of "eff the Moclans". We'd already seen her support for Topa earlier in the season, even if it was in private company. Having her play this part would have made alot more sense IMO.
She played her part well, but we know in this series that the writers like to do a slow burn type thing.
#RenewTheOrville Season 4
This scene is perfect because it shows how officers deal with things and how an enlisted would deal with it. ( yes I know Gordon is also technically an officer )
God, how I love the Orville 😊
He already said that much, just let him finish. They are gonna leaves anyway.
Mo'clans, mo' problems!!! lol
They will remove that seat for all future meetings.
The voice of the Moclan ambassador sounds familiar. Is that the actor who played Ben Sisko in Deep Space Nine?
It sure sounds like it
No, he is played by Tony Todd (who did play an adult Jake Sisko in DS9 so not that far off)
@@andriesbakker4861 That doesn't sound like Tony Todd but sure sounds like Avery Brooks.
It's close, but not quite Avery Brooks' voice. And definitely not Tony Todd.
@@RabbitShirak dude, it is Tony Todd... look it up in the cast list :|
Moclans in Earth Tongue means Gaslighters
Get em Gordon!
The Moclans and anyone who sides with them clearly need a vist from the helldivers
1:15 Someone should have told the Moclan delegate to never ask a human a question like that and expect it to go good for you.
I can't think of anything he said that's false.
TO me Gordon was such an underused character and this scene is one of the few times he was able to shine! The fact that an Admiral couldn't get him to stop but Ed was really shows the loyalty he has for Ed.
It’s US parallel with Saudi Arabia
I think my favorite part about this scene is the total contrast Gordan has here. Generally, he's the comic of the ship, often poking fun at everything. Rarely do we see him get serious, and because of that, this is probably my favorite scene of the Lieutenant.
Malloy's been like Topa's big brother from Day 1. Of course he's gonna go on a tirade against these assholes.
The Moclan representative sounds kind of like Keith David
Of all the species in this show, the ones I hate more than any other are tge Moclans and the Janisi
He speaks for everyone who wishes to speak against every small minded, racist, prejudice, antisocial groups of the world. They think they’re in the right where open mindedness is a disease. They’re living in the dark ages while the rest of the world wants to move forward.
It’s the Paradox of Tolerance. To be a Tolerant, you have to make a stand against the Intolerant. For the Intolerant it’s never enough when you let them exist, they will push and continue to push. The Tolerant Union bent over backwards to tolerate the intolerant Moclans. And the Moclans always wanted more.
Exactly. It's is rather pathetic to me that you are the first person here who gets who the intended target of this rant was.
I’m just saying that Gordon is speaking for everyone who wishes to speak against the oppressor.
@@Coyoteprime oh I got that. Tragically a lot of people here didn't unfortunately. Either that or they are deluded enough to think they are the oppressed and not the oppressors.
@@ashleighelizabeth5916 It's incredible that some people in the comment are even talking how "This is excellent politics because it doesn't talk overtly about real world politics" or even worse "They're talking about PC" when the Moclans are stand-ins for every form of conservative faction of democratic countries.
The Union did what every country should do to their conservatives: Expell them, because sooner or later, they will ally with the Krills (Fascists).
People act oblivious like that and then bitch and moan that newer series make their allegories more open and less subtle. That's because the message didn't get in the first time and screenwriters had to correct for inherent conservative stupidity!
So Nethanyau likes the Moclans then.
Oh shit. Is that the Babylon 5 actor playing the blue guy
Bruce Boxleitner
I mean, Malloy's just saying what eeeeeverybody is thinking.
I applaud Gordon. But not entirely so! The timing seems to be unfortunate.
I feel like if he didn't say it when he did, the cycle would continue with no accountability and no chance for change. There is rarely a 'right' time to call out behavior like this if the right time means posing it when it won't cause issues. People like the Mocclan government will make issues whenever accountability is at hand, just to continue their cycle, adhere to status quo, and make it seem like they are needed.
There is never a wrong time to call out these kinds of people, because they will never let there be a right time.
@@selkiara1272 I'm aware that you said that.. 5 months ago.. And yes - you are mostly correct.. However, there are and were limits and Gordon crossed part of the line.. Regulations say that you don't badmouth a governing body unless under extreme provocation. And even then, to watch how it is said. Even if it is right.. It can be wrong.. and that is where I can agree with you on the situation. Molloy spoke out of turn.. But his reaction was understandably correct. I suspect that he got a reprimand, but no court martial..
Keith David? Sounds a lot like him.
This makes me think, Stark Terk TNG is so good
Hold up, hold up. Humans are not foreign to the concept of war. Why not drum up some weapons? Or take that temporal pyramid and make it into a time laser? Age the krill and kaylons ships to sand?
That device was destroyed and the one who made it properly died.
So we got rid of the bigoted mysoginist child torturing bullies and replaced them with some hyper advanced AI bros who are so damn chill they show up to a wedding with enough firepower to level a quadrant just so their entire race can come support their one weird sibling on his special day?
I see that as an absolute win.
Bullies always play the victim when you confront them with their BS.
He was right....
I will meet this CHIEF engineer
Well he literally did ask for it
Well they had that coming
With Gordon as well on this
Wait is that Commander Sheridan burried under all that makeup?
I want an episode where Malloy is played by Andrew Santino and everybody does a double take and frowns at him for a second but don’t acknowledge the change 😆
Lol. I love that people are applauding this in a show but the people in the real world that these are based on are always allowed to play victim exactly like this.