“I believe you are confusing opinion with knowledge” is probably the greatest line I’ve heard to describe social media and the current climate we live in.
@@DavidLS1 ...or they look for the specific knowledge that gives validity to their opinion. Even if that specific knowledge lacks context or corroborating evidence.
@@GaryTurbo Commet dislikes meh, but yeah video dislikes were useful. Wojcicki got rid of them because certain advertisers and companies didn't like it. Looks real bad for your product when the video about it has a overall negitive rating.
There's a whole arc of 3-4 episodes involving this world and character. The world becomes hostile and this character requests refugee asylum from the Orville.
@@CharlieRasch it is , even with so many records missing, the Greek and Roman worked out democracy come to this point on so many times, so many data points , is much more complex than just majority rules as it can many times becomes chaos as social media like in this movie shown😊
Why do they get the upvote/downvote badge when they turn 18? Lots of kids need them especially with behaviour, bullying and such, and if an absolute democracy, they wouldn't protect the kids. And many websites are 13, for comparison
Absurd that they don't even account for the split between like and dislikes in their coffee refusal policy. They'd just refuse anyone that's popular enough.
I see what you're saying. They use a set number rather than a ratio, which means anyone in the public spotlight could potentially exceed that 500k dislikes every day, even if they got 10x that many likes per day. To expand on the world building, maybe they should have a score as the ratio of likes over dislikes with a derogatory term for people with a value
Why didn't that one guy just retaliate with a downvote after he was downvoted? Why doesn't everyone do that? Kinda breaks the whole system with retaliatory downvotes or the threat thereof.
The Orville is so good,too many people dismissed it as Family Guy in space because the first few episodes were jokey. I really hope there's a season 4.
Seth MacFarlane is such a Star Trek fan, that he has successfully created Orville to be the next best Star Trek after TNG, and that by even disguising it to parody show. It is sad that Orville is handling far more important subjects via comedy, than example Star Trek Picard/Discovery/Strange New Worlds managed to do at all.
"Though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; . . . the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression" -- from Thomas Jefferson's 1801 inaugural address.
@@TheIllusiveMan11 hey guys, hitler said that apples are good! But he killed Jews therefore apples must be bad 🤦♂️ Are you saying the statement is correct but he was a hypocrite or are you implying that the statement is invalid due to he’s hypocrisy
@@john2510 Let's not get into this passey discussion about "who ripped off who". I could very easily point out how Black Mirror obviously wasn't the first one to use this theme for an episode, and that it was merely YOUR first exposure to it.
I gotta question, the individuals who established and run this Social Credit system, are they immune to down votes? Cuz I can see activists voting them down at any given chance to mess with the system.
It was likely created intentionally as a corrupted form of their idea of democracy as a way of winning by pure popularity. So they can convince people that their way is right through manipulation. Much like corporate advertising. As for the leaders, it was likely used to remove ones who got in their way.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing myself. I've seen a lot of people who will mess with the system just because they can. They will downvote good people and upvote. People who are horrible because they think it's funny and others will join in to be part of a group or click.
No.. I think that in the beginning the system being sold or marketed as a manner of giving everyone a voice. Coming out (officially) against this might be be social-suicide because the marketing team would insulate the system by saying 'people will come out against this as a way to keep YOU down, to silence you"... Because that's how it's worked in the past.
democracy is always evil...which is why the founding fathers knew better than to apply it to America...worst method of governance ever conceived. but of course the marxists have convicned everyone otherwise...all for a desired outcome very close to the society in this clip.
"There can be no justice so long as laws are absolute. Even life itself is an exercise in exceptions." (Captain Jean-Luc Picard played by Sir Patrick Stewart)
It really falls apart when they obtain fake badges almost immediately upon setting foot there from a street vendor. If it's that easy to manipulate, why wouldn't everyone do it?
And what would happen if your badge was accidentally destroyed (fell in water, got lost during hard physical labor, etc.)? Can you just get a replacement and would the replacement have all your upvotes and downvotes already registered?
Democracy of the vote without democracy of information is not democracy. It doesn't matter if people are able to vote as long as the media-owning class are able to manipulate how they vote. "One person, one vote" is meaningless if influence and control of information is highly concentrated in an elite few. And it is.
Help? If it is run by social media, it is beyond all hope. "We have arrived, and it is now that we perform our charge. In fealty to the God-Emperor, our undying Lord, and by the grace of the Golden Throne, I declare Exterminatus. I hereby sign the death warrant of an world and consign a million souls to oblivion. May Imperial Justice account in all balance. The Emperor Protects."
Biden is not influenced by influencer culture. He's too old and removed from that world. He's destroying Tik Tok and lecturing college students about protests. Trump was born in influencer culture with cameos and as seen on TV products.
@@cadenrolland5250 Trump was popular way before that which is why he even had a show to begin with. Everybody loved Trump until he went against the establishment.
@soontobenothing5458 1, there have always been people who reviled him, 2, he never went against the establishment... he pretty much is the establishment...
There is a black mirror episode almost exactly like this, except people rate interactions they have with each other, like how you and an Uber driver rate each other. Similar to this epsidode, people with low ratings are not allowed in certain places or to do certain things
@@Bobsmith-xq2prCommunity copied many ideas of others. Many ideas, including this one, were done on Recess first and probably somewhere else beforehand.
Thats the biggest argument against not valuing education in a democracy. Education is key to having a functional democracy You see too many democracies undervaluing their education systems. The whole point of democracy becomes null when the voter lacks critical thinking skills I know this is a popular quote, but it's a dumb one.
@@thedrunknmunky6571That's why we have historians...who compile said history for you, in digestible organized information. Repeating the same mistakes from history is dumb
First of all, I just gave this an upvote, lol. But this was very inciteful. Our society which is hooked on social media is definitely headed in this direction.
This is the greatest example of how Seth's Star Trek is sooooo much better than actual modern day Star Trek. Actual important social commentary, just like 90's Trek used to be
Why didn't that one guy just retaliate with a downvote after he was downvoted? Why doesn't everyone do that? Kinda breaks the whole system with retaliatory downvotes or the threat thereof.
“Everybody’s just so angry at everybody else” In the 1600s the philosopher Thomas Hobbes wrote that in the ‘state of nature’, a land without any political structure, the people would live in constant suspicion of each other; because of this there would be no friendships, no romance, no commerce or any kind of association. The society depicted in this clip seems to show what this would be like in a digital age. We’re not as far away from the state of nature as Hobbes might have once thought.
I don't think it has to be that way. I think that if people were raised to be educated, disciplined, non-judgemental and empathetic and were exposed to other people who shared those traits then a stateless society would work far better. I'm not well read, but Peter Kroptkin made a completely contradictory argument in "Mutual Aid" believing many creatures would cooperate for their mutual benefit, rather than fighting and being afraid of each other, as cooperation allowed them to survive and reproduce. He applied this idea to humans too.
@@jimmyjohnson1870 I think it does have to be that way. Just take buying off Amazon versus a local shop owner you know. That personal connection is gone.
The obvious fault in Hobbes’ claim is that friendships, commerce, romance and associations are found in every society, even one so tiny, isolated and impoverished as the Pintupi Nine.
Yeah I was like didn't Black Mirror do this exact thing years ago? I've heard good things about The Orville but this doesn't seem like a great example.
This was the episode when I really started to think that Star Trek Next Gen, if made today, criticizing the modern world of the 2010s and 2020s, would do something like this and the result would be almost the same (minus a bit of obvious comedy).
The pseudo-profoundness of, “A voice should be earned, not given away” in the dialogue is proof that the writers either knew their audience was self-aggrandizing redditors or were those redditors themselves.
"I believe you are confusing opinion with knowledge" Both a good summation of this plotline and what its commenting on. Not only is the ides if people being able to vote and agree on something meaningless when the people controlling the influx of information can manipulate what is seen as "the truth" , but there has never been a time in human history whrn information is so readily available; yet people still ignore it in favor of their personal opinion
God damn this needed a fourth season. Bringing her back out of nowhere in the finale of season three set up a good storyline. She could stay on the ship to acclimate to their rule and learn to live in this new system. Maybe even officially join the crew or something, I just would've liked to see her continue to grow.
Democracy of the vote without democracy of information is not democracy. It doesn't matter if people are able to vote as long as the media-owning class are able to manipulate how they vote. "One person, one vote" is meaningless if influence and control of information is highly concentrated in an elite few. And it is.
It’s not from a single episode. It’s from the season 1 episode “majority vote” and the season 3 finale. Her story is a small part of season 3 finale, but a surprisingly well fleshed out one. Guess that’s what happens when Seth promised s3 would be mini-movies. Each s3 ep is minimum 60 minutes, with most around 75 minutes, and some over 90 minutes. Mini-movies indeed.
For me this episode really nails down that there really is no perfect form of government, because the rich and powerful, motivated only by greed, will always find a way to get what they want.
Were I the crew of the Orville, I would have spent the next several months manipulating their social media until their world was driven to implode in a mass global war. The scooped in the crush what was left.
Congratulations! Now you know why we’re not a democracy, but rather a republic. “Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” - John Adams
This is how activists would like the world to work. The problem is also said in this episode; people are scared to trust others because they might get downvoted for a failed attempt at getting an upvote. Plus, the system scews the trust that people have for others, because people are judged based on the downvote/upvote ratio.
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed sheep protesting the vote." Ben Franklin (Attributed to him, though there's no evidence he said it.)
The only joke i'm seeing here is woman got disliked from 540,572 people. That's not possible from 18 age to onward to be encountered by so many people through the years.
Why do they get the upvote/downvote badge when they turn 18? Lots of kids need them especially with behaviour, bullying and such, and if an absolute democracy, they wouldn't protect the kids. And 13 better mirrors the social media sites.
Teenagers, especially teenage girls, organize massive cyberbullying campaigns for the pettiest reasons. “He didn’t ask me to ,” or “she went to with the boy I like (but constantly blow off).” It’s distressingly easy to imagine such a campaign targeting a grade 8 girl who’s starting to become popular, and angers the existing queen bees in consequence.
God this looks like a great show, like a new Star Trek show. Still waiting for it to air here in the UK. One way or another, I will see it one day! :-) I kind of feel guilty for "upvoting" this video!
The Orville might get Macfarlane the Oscar he wants... you know that right. These Star Trek stylized moral dilemma human interest stories are quite deep.
I gotta be honest this feels like the most basic, liberal interpretation of what absolute democracy is, down to "the mob" being spoken with absolute disgust. From what I've got from this clip, the problem is people equating popularity with knowledge and competence, which is an issue with representative democracy too, hell, most of our politicians still win by a popularity contest, not by merit alone. People being completely subjugated to their popularity, and it being the determining factor in their spot on the social hierarchy is a good idea to explore, but equating this with the concept of absolute democracy is dumb as hell imo
@@cehaem2 Sure the mob can be manipulated sometimes - as we saw that in ancient Athens - but there are ways people can be educated to safe-guard against this kind of manipulation. It's just not well taught.
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“I believe you are confusing opinion with knowledge” is probably the greatest line I’ve heard to describe social media and the current climate we live in.
In the history of the world, knowledge has never been so readily available, yet so many people ignore it in favor of opinion.
I agree...you get an upvote.
@@DavidLS1 ...or they look for the specific knowledge that gives validity to their opinion. Even if that specific knowledge lacks context or corroborating evidence.
And our the mainstream news media 🤣🤣🤣
@@ivaniuk123Is that supposed to be a sentence?
Pretty much a world of redditors. A global circlejerk.
Only thing lacking is all karma farmers :P
Why reddit specifically? All social media has the same buttons, and most gig apps have star ratings too.
People here are begging to bring back dislikes
@@GaryTurbo Commet dislikes meh, but yeah video dislikes were useful. Wojcicki got rid of them because certain advertisers and companies didn't like it. Looks real bad for your product when the video about it has a overall negitive rating.
Actually bringing back dislikes does more harm than good because people will abuse it to dogpile on a youtuber they don't like
Love it. An episode criticizing the behaviour of the masses on social media.
Love that you have 45 upvotes for that. Even on a video pointing out the flaws of a system of popularity, people still can't help themselves.
It's also a good fable about Democracy.
There's a whole arc of 3-4 episodes involving this world and character. The world becomes hostile and this character requests refugee asylum from the Orville.
@@CharlieRasch it is , even with so many records missing, the Greek and Roman worked out democracy come to this point on so many times, so many data points , is much more complex than just majority rules as it can many times becomes chaos as social media like in this movie shown😊
Why do they get the upvote/downvote badge when they turn 18? Lots of kids need them especially with behaviour, bullying and such, and if an absolute democracy, they wouldn't protect the kids. And many websites are 13, for comparison
Absurd that they don't even account for the split between like and dislikes in their coffee refusal policy.
They'd just refuse anyone that's popular enough.
Unpopular
@@Lorrdd yeah no. If someone has 7 billion likes and 500k dislike i'd say popular. But they'd be refused
I see what you're saying. They use a set number rather than a ratio, which means anyone in the public spotlight could potentially exceed that 500k dislikes every day, even if they got 10x that many likes per day.
To expand on the world building, maybe they should have a score as the ratio of likes over dislikes with a derogatory term for people with a value
@@DonCDXX Could we maybe *not* improve the Torment Nexus? :)
Why didn't that one guy just retaliate with a downvote after he was downvoted? Why doesn't everyone do that? Kinda breaks the whole system with retaliatory downvotes or the threat thereof.
The Orville is so good,too many people dismissed it as Family Guy in space because the first few episodes were jokey. I really hope there's a season 4.
Seth MacFarlane is such a Star Trek fan, that he has successfully created Orville to be the next best Star Trek after TNG, and that by even disguising it to parody show.
It is sad that Orville is handling far more important subjects via comedy, than example Star Trek Picard/Discovery/Strange New Worlds managed to do at all.
@@paristo There is no will to touch those important subjects by those who want to hide them.
I started watching Orville thinking it would be a comedy. It was more of a thought provoking drama.
Orville is "woke".
@@mikeymcmikeface5599 that's debatable. They had very sound arguments in their episodes.
"Though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; . . . the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression" -- from Thomas Jefferson's 1801 inaugural address.
Words that will be made to be forgotten in 2 generations time.
Always nice to hear about the importance of equality and minority rights
From the man that owned and raped his black slaves everyday of his life.
I'm guessing all that doesn't include all of his slaves?
@@TheIllusiveMan11 hey guys, hitler said that apples are good! But he killed Jews therefore apples must be bad 🤦♂️
Are you saying the statement is correct but he was a hypocrite or are you implying that the statement is invalid due to he’s hypocrisy
Jefferson was wrong. He was so wrong. He was not a great president.
This is just like the Black Mirror episode “Nosedive.” Very thought provoking.
Pretty much a ripoff, really :(
@@john2510 Let's not get into this passey discussion about "who ripped off who". I could very easily point out how Black Mirror obviously wasn't the first one to use this theme for an episode, and that it was merely YOUR first exposure to it.
@@AngelArm1110 MeowMeowBeenz
@@AngelArm1110 Who did it before Black Mirror?
@@Cal-TwentyNine the greeks
When a Star Trek parody is more Star Trek than actual Star Trek installments these days
Wait this is not Star Trek
Strange new worlds is pretty good
I gotta question, the individuals who established and run this Social Credit system, are they immune to down votes? Cuz I can see activists voting them down at any given chance to mess with the system.
It was likely created intentionally as a corrupted form of their idea of democracy as a way of winning by pure popularity. So they can convince people that their way is right through manipulation. Much like corporate advertising. As for the leaders, it was likely used to remove ones who got in their way.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing myself. I've seen a lot of people who will mess with the system just because they can. They will downvote good people and upvote. People who are horrible because they think it's funny and others will join in to be part of a group or click.
No.. I think that in the beginning the system being sold or marketed as a manner of giving everyone a voice. Coming out (officially) against this might be be social-suicide because the marketing team would insulate the system by saying 'people will come out against this as a way to keep YOU down, to silence you"...
Because that's how it's worked in the past.
@@LateLostyeah, why didn't the customer at the coffee shop down vote the worker, surely that'd help balance out that kind of thing
@@thomasc8482my thoughts too
This planet needs some Managed Democracy!
Preparing Helldivers for deployment.
democracy is always evil...which is why the founding fathers knew better than to apply it to America...worst method of governance ever conceived.
but of course the marxists have convicned everyone otherwise...all for a desired outcome very close to the society in this clip.
Helldivers to Hellpods!
FOR DEMOCRACY!!! ✊
That’s actually the opposite of democracy isn’t it?
"A voice must be earned. Not given away." Very wise, Bouts
Fives have lives. Fours have chores, Threes have fleas. Twos have blues. And ones don’t get a rhyme because they are garbage people!
Let's not even talk about negative numbers.
Six seasons and a movie
Apppplllles
"There can be no justice so long as laws are absolute. Even life itself is an exercise in exceptions." (Captain Jean-Luc Picard played by Sir Patrick Stewart)
Idk why, but the phrase "Government by American Idol" made me crack up.
Funny they use a reference set 500 years before the show timeline.
It really falls apart when they obtain fake badges almost immediately upon setting foot there from a street vendor. If it's that easy to manipulate, why wouldn't everyone do it?
I'm pretty sure that police and others would regularly check if the badge you're wearing is yours. Like id cards and social score.
The whole episode is very badly set up. I couldn't even finish it.
And what would happen if your badge was accidentally destroyed (fell in water, got lost during hard physical labor, etc.)? Can you just get a replacement and would the replacement have all your upvotes and downvotes already registered?
@@priruss357 Yeah obviously, when you lose a phone do you lose every single shit. (iphone does cuz it's a scam but thats another topic)
The badges are only a plot device anyway. The same as the people on the planet having yellow taxis and mordern fashion
Democracy of the vote without democracy of information is not democracy.
It doesn't matter if people are able to vote as long as the media-owning class are able to manipulate how they vote.
"One person, one vote" is meaningless if influence and control of information is highly concentrated in an elite few. And it is.
That opening line of yours is pure fire. Dang, you said it.
Again, the issue is not lack of information. It’s all the behaviors that you see in social psychology experiments.
@@CSqrdX Please explain what your conclusion is. Thanks in advance.
It's not a Democracy it's just a chaotic mess
Well said. 100% agree! I hope Google doesn't delete this comment but it happens to me a lot. No free speech here.
Out of all the planets, that one needs the most help.
Help? If it is run by social media, it is beyond all hope.
"We have arrived, and it is now that we perform our charge. In fealty to the God-Emperor, our undying Lord, and by the grace of the Golden Throne, I declare Exterminatus. I hereby sign the death warrant of an world and consign a million souls to oblivion. May Imperial Justice account in all balance. The Emperor Protects."
Best line from this topic, Government by American Idol, LOL - and considering the way things are at the mo, with Biden and Trump, holy cow Batman
And one is actually popular by a reality show he ran.
Biden is not influenced by influencer culture. He's too old and removed from that world. He's destroying Tik Tok and lecturing college students about protests. Trump was born in influencer culture with cameos and as seen on TV products.
@@cadenrolland5250 Trump was popular way before that which is why he even had a show to begin with. Everybody loved Trump until he went against the establishment.
@soontobenothing5458
1, there have always been people who reviled him, 2, he never went against the establishment... he pretty much is the establishment...
This "parody" is doing a much better job of creating meaningful stories than the new Star Trek shows.
There is a black mirror episode almost exactly like this, except people rate interactions they have with each other, like how you and an Uber driver rate each other. Similar to this epsidode, people with low ratings are not allowed in certain places or to do certain things
black mirror ripped off the idea, MeowMeowBeenz is the real social scoring system.
@@Bobsmith-xq2prCommunity copied many ideas of others. Many ideas, including this one, were done on Recess first and probably somewhere else beforehand.
@@GrandMarshalGarithos We like to call it a homage, lmao
“I believe you are confusing opinion with knowledge” Impossible to disagree, often opinions only bury knowledge
"The biggest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."
The biggest argument against everything that isn't Democracy is the entirety of human history.
Ain’t nobody got time to listen to all of human history, so the 5 min conversation will do.
Thats the biggest argument against not valuing education in a democracy. Education is key to having a functional democracy
You see too many democracies undervaluing their education systems.
The whole point of democracy becomes null when the voter lacks critical thinking skills
I know this is a popular quote, but it's a dumb one.
@@thedrunknmunky6571That's why we have historians...who compile said history for you, in digestible organized information.
Repeating the same mistakes from history is dumb
"Democracy is the worst system of government, apart from everything else that has been tried."
First of all, I just gave this an upvote, lol. But this was very inciteful. Our society which is hooked on social media is definitely headed in this direction.
I mean this purely to inform you, it's "insightful." Incite means to encourage (typically violenece).
this is what social credit looks like. we are all going to get it sooner or later.
This is the greatest example of how Seth's Star Trek is sooooo much better than actual modern day Star Trek. Actual important social commentary, just like 90's Trek used to be
I wonder if someone could just upvote themselves over and over rather than having the choices made by others.
Why didn't that one guy just retaliate with a downvote after he was downvoted? Why doesn't everyone do that? Kinda breaks the whole system with retaliatory downvotes or the threat thereof.
“Everybody’s just so angry at everybody else”
In the 1600s the philosopher Thomas Hobbes wrote that in the ‘state of nature’, a land without any political structure, the people would live in constant suspicion of each other; because of this there would be no friendships, no romance, no commerce or any kind of association. The society depicted in this clip seems to show what this would be like in a digital age. We’re not as far away from the state of nature as Hobbes might have once thought.
I don't think it has to be that way. I think that if people were raised to be educated, disciplined, non-judgemental and empathetic and were exposed to other people who shared those traits then a stateless society would work far better. I'm not well read, but Peter Kroptkin made a completely contradictory argument in "Mutual Aid" believing many creatures would cooperate for their mutual benefit, rather than fighting and being afraid of each other, as cooperation allowed them to survive and reproduce. He applied this idea to humans too.
@@jimmyjohnson1870 Corpos: where is the profit in that.
@@jimmyjohnson1870 I think it does have to be that way. Just take buying off Amazon versus a local shop owner you know. That personal connection is gone.
The obvious fault in Hobbes’ claim is that friendships, commerce, romance and associations are found in every society, even one so tiny, isolated and impoverished as the Pintupi Nine.
I can’t imagine how terrifying the situation devolved on Lysella’s planet to want to seek asylum in the Union
I thought this was a black mirror episode for a moment #ohwaititis
Community did it first #meowmeowbeans
And you would be right. Black Mirror did do an episode just like this with Bryce Dallas Howard trying to navigate a world that runs on rating systems.
Yeah I was like didn't Black Mirror do this exact thing years ago? I've heard good things about The Orville but this doesn't seem like a great example.
Aren't we all in a Black Mirror episode...
@@PraetorHesperus The ancient greeks did it first.
Thx you for uploading this!
This was the episode when I really started to think that Star Trek Next Gen, if made today, criticizing the modern world of the 2010s and 2020s, would do something like this and the result would be almost the same (minus a bit of obvious comedy).
Ah man I finished Orville some two months back, really one of the better series I've watched
This girl is basically describing IRL modern society. Everybody is just mad at each other for no reason.
The pseudo-profoundness of, “A voice should be earned, not given away” in the dialogue is proof that the writers either knew their audience was self-aggrandizing redditors or were those redditors themselves.
"A voice should be earned.. Not given away"
Thats what democracy countries need today...
I love those episodes, I like how the scenes are cut together in this video! I wish we would live in a world like depicted in the Orville
One of my favorite episodes from Orville
"I believe you are confusing opinion with knowledge"
Both a good summation of this plotline and what its commenting on.
Not only is the ides if people being able to vote and agree on something meaningless when the people controlling the influx of information can manipulate what is seen as "the truth" , but there has never been a time in human history whrn information is so readily available; yet people still ignore it in favor of their personal opinion
Damn this is so freaking deep and pretty much a view among other perspectives of social media overall.
This world has already got one thing right that we've forgotten - the value of negative feedback.
It's amazing how well this aged. Looking at college campuses and seeing this is sobering
I loved this episode of 'Community'!
I definitely feel like Lysella, I want Orville to pick me up, too
This is actually not a tv show but documented view into our future for humanity.
"Captain, what she is describing is an ancient brutal Earth culture called CHINA."
hey look..... its the #metoo movement! kudos to Orville for actually addressing this issue
basically THIS is the kind of BS we deal with regularly
It's the actress from the Ted TV series. Cool.
Great episode!
God damn this needed a fourth season. Bringing her back out of nowhere in the finale of season three set up a good storyline. She could stay on the ship to acclimate to their rule and learn to live in this new system. Maybe even officially join the crew or something, I just would've liked to see her continue to grow.
“Remember Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself”
*-John Adams*
Democracy of the vote without democracy of information is not democracy. It doesn't matter if people are able to vote as long as the media-owning class are able to manipulate how they vote. "One person, one vote" is meaningless if influence and control of information is highly concentrated in an elite few. And it is.
@@gagarinone so by your logic you say "real democracy was never tried before"
Well, this scene alone will make me watch ghe Orville. It isn't a subtle critique, but boy oh boy it is a good one!
It’s not from a single episode. It’s from the season 1 episode “majority vote” and the season 3 finale. Her story is a small part of season 3 finale, but a surprisingly well fleshed out one. Guess that’s what happens when Seth promised s3 would be mini-movies. Each s3 ep is minimum 60 minutes, with most around 75 minutes, and some over 90 minutes. Mini-movies indeed.
why did the girl asking for a coffe not give the waitress a down vote
For me this episode really nails down that there really is no perfect form of government, because the rich and powerful, motivated only by greed, will always find a way to get what they want.
Thought provoking. I wanna watch it now
Were I the crew of the Orville, I would have spent the next several months manipulating their social media until their world was driven to implode in a mass global war. The scooped in the crush what was left.
The ultimate Social Media!
"those who need leaders are not qualified to choose them"
Wasn't this the plot of a Black Mirror episode?
The Orville made it better.
It’s meow meow beans!
Holy zhit it's Blair and Matty from Ted
And call me crazy, but Captain Mercer sounds an awful lot like Ted....
Holly shit, it's Amy Bendix from The Punisher.
This felt like a black mirror episode
Black Mirror’s lawyers just called…shall I say you’re out?
Awesome 😎
popularity can be be good or bad, it does depend on the substance.
Congratulations! Now you know why we’re not a democracy, but rather a republic.
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” - John Adams
China is a Republic... so is North Korea.
0:50 Careful old lady or she's gonna call the Punisher.
I’ll just click my own upvote all day
OMG this part, it just describes Romania so well.
This is why politicians shouldn’t be allowed to use social media.
This is how activists would like the world to work. The problem is also said in this episode; people are scared to trust others because they might get downvoted for a failed attempt at getting an upvote. Plus, the system scews the trust that people have for others, because people are judged based on the downvote/upvote ratio.
Not true. People are judged only on their downvotes, so far as is shown.
The funny thing is that this is how we are already anyway beneath the surface.
So basically social media and the comment sections in a nutshell. I’m upvoting this.
They are right! How they filter the truth from just mear opinion.
The cafe barista is also in the Ted Series
I love that show
loved
Democracy, the dictatorship of the majority.
Its why checks and balances are important.
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed sheep protesting the vote." Ben Franklin (Attributed to him, though there's no evidence he said it.)
Side note: Ben Franklin never said that.
@@billcook4768 Really? Okay, then.
Another side note: Mahatma Gandhi never actually said, "An eye for an eye makes the world blind."
Pretty much were current society is evolving towards.
Nosedive Black Mirror had the same premise, except that was based on 5 star rating system
they should make a full spinoff show of this i would watch
The only joke i'm seeing here is woman got disliked from 540,572 people.
That's not possible from 18 age to onward to be encountered by so many people through the years.
Why do they get the upvote/downvote badge when they turn 18? Lots of kids need them especially with behaviour, bullying and such, and if an absolute democracy, they wouldn't protect the kids. And 13 better mirrors the social media sites.
Maybe they go on their parents' badge? Good reason to raise a kid well
Teenagers, especially teenage girls, organize massive cyberbullying campaigns for the pettiest reasons. “He didn’t ask me to ,” or “she went to with the boy I like (but constantly blow off).” It’s distressingly easy to imagine such a campaign targeting a grade 8 girl who’s starting to become popular, and angers the existing queen bees in consequence.
The Orville "went there" with topics that were powerful but difficult to talk about, and this episode is proof of that...
Your old votes should definitely expire though. Where's the sense of paying your dues and getting a clean slate?!
Social Credit Scoring in action.
God this looks like a great show, like a new Star Trek show. Still waiting for it to air here in the UK. One way or another, I will see it one day! :-) I kind of feel guilty for "upvoting" this video!
Orville was great but its annoying that so many people laud this as the best episode when it is basically just a rip-off of black mirror.
1:56 When you give away a voice the worst people become leaders
I would just run away from them😂
Bet the Black Mirror writers were involved here
I can't help but think they didn't really explore the implications of such a society. I for one thinks it could work splendidly
Her life seemed to be okay before meeting Frank
I like that this is lowkey good science fiction. Like, on par with actual Star Trek.
The Orville might get Macfarlane the Oscar he wants... you know that right. These Star Trek stylized moral dilemma human interest stories are quite deep.
Orville is a TV show, not a movie. The best he could get would be an Emmy. Given the success of his other shows, he probably already has at least one.
1:02 No reason not to downvote the clerk there, right?
anyone here after trump got his second term?
I'm surprised nobody tries to rig their badges by constantly giving themselves upvotes.
That world is an introverts worst nightmare
I gotta be honest this feels like the most basic, liberal interpretation of what absolute democracy is, down to "the mob" being spoken with absolute disgust.
From what I've got from this clip, the problem is people equating popularity with knowledge and competence, which is an issue with representative democracy too, hell, most of our politicians still win by a popularity contest, not by merit alone.
People being completely subjugated to their popularity, and it being the determining factor in their spot on the social hierarchy is a good idea to explore, but equating this with the concept of absolute democracy is dumb as hell imo
Absolute democracy is the rule of the mob. And the mob can be easily manipulated.
But it is absolute democracy... There is a good chance that this is what any absolute democratic systems would devolve into
@@cehaem2 Sure the mob can be manipulated sometimes - as we saw that in ancient Athens - but there are ways people can be educated to safe-guard against this kind of manipulation. It's just not well taught.
I don’t think it’s bc things gotten worse since she got back, she just opened her eyes to what’s really going on around her