Just found the channel. Had it recommended I watch by TH-cam but could have heard it mentioned elsewhere. Anyway enjoyed your episode hearing about what I am missing out on despite me owning the game. I just can't get myself to sit down at a table and throw dice. Much easier to play at the pc but even there I stopped playing as much as my arm, unbelievably, was hurting bad from throwing dice. : ) Still though in the future I look forward to playing some Payoff Pitch as I love how there is terminology on the card vs just numbers. It is a different way to present things to the player. As for the ratings on those defensive players I hear ya. I would be interesting to hear why Robinson and Aparicio are rated as such. Finally just got to say you have a relaxed way of doing things and it is welcomed for sure by me. I need more chill in my life. Hope the rest of your videos are similar.
Thanks and welcome! :-) Yeah, even though I love cards & dice, there are times I prefer the computer version of the games. There are definitely pros and cons to both... so I'm glad both are an option. I do understand the sore arm from throwing dice believe it or not, I've had some minor discomfort to where I've needed to move my dice tower around to help alleviate it some. I agree about Payoff Pitch, the game engine is still my favorite cards & dice baseball game for the reasons you mentioned... And finally, I think we all could use a little more chill in our life... Lol
It's funny… while I can certainly understand the affection for a computer game by many (especially for keeping track of stats!), personally I welcome the cards & dice; it's one of the reasons why POP is my favorite baseball game. You see, I spend way too much time in front of a digital screen every day. Between my laptop and my iPhone, I spend precious little time in the real, physical 3D world. So the couple of hours I get to spend sitting at my dining table with cards, dice and dice tower are a most welcome reprieve from the flat digital world where everything, without exception, is 10-15" in front of my face. Playin' cards & dice (complete with actual - not digital - sounds) just feels so much more, well… human. I love it.
"Personality of the players built in the card" is a great descriptor that immediately brings to mind my favorite hockey game, Hockey Bones. I wish I had conveyed it like that in a video I made praising the game actually.
I noticed the Brooks Robinson rating as well! I was going to play the 1969 ALCS using Payoff Pitch, BUT noticed Brooks Robinson and Harmon Killebrew had the same rating at 3B. I inquired about it…..and got an answer, but…..it just doesn’t feel right. Even if you look at the new metrics as retroactively applied to 1969, Brooks should be an A and Killebrew earns a D…..barely.
I think I have most all games out there and Payoff Pitch is my favorite. I’d like to see more of it but I know you’re playing some others now. Thanks for the videos
Thanks! There was an ad for it on Facebook and I took a chance, it looked a bit suspicious. It took a long time to arrive, but it finally did (it came from China) I like it a lot! :)
@@gpuck6331 The races in both leagues were great. I've been doing some research on the 1964 Phillies...very interesting team. My Orioles started the season in Chicago versus the White Sox. They had a great team that year. I'm looking forward to learning more about them as my replay progresses.
Good review. The engine is interesting. From what I've seen of games, this is the most ambitious in terms of what it's trying to do. The discussion about splits being affected by both the hitter and the pitcher is something the APBA doesn't take into account. It is only affected by the hitter's preference and not the pitcher's which is one rating facing both lefthanders and righthanders. As to Brooks Robinson's defensive rating, whatever is the top rating, that is what it should probably be. He is the best defensive 3rd baseman ever imo, and though for me Schmidt is GOAT 3rd baseman, a strong argument can be made for Brooks.
Yeah, I still think their game engine (pitcher/batter interaction) is the best. Not having the L/R splits for the pitchers bothers me a little. However, the fielding, running ratings, etc. bother me a great deal. I think the overall game stats will come out ok but getting the best total representation of ALL of the players abilities is more important to me than I originally thought it was. :-)
While I haven't played tabletop baseball, I've long given this a curious look because it appears to be quite well-designed. As someone also trying to design his own (hockey) game(s) on the side, I look to stuff like this that's a little outside the box (sometimes even board gaming stuff that has nothing to do with sports) for inspiration because it looks to be quite well thought-out. In particular, I think the option to use either dice or cards is good. It's good to have options that cater to preferences.
Great review. I have been on the fence about purchasing the game and was excited to see that there are updated rules as well as the 2001 season coming soon. The defensive ratings are a concern for me, though.
Thanks. It is still my favorite cards & dice baseball game. The defensive ratings are my biggest concern too but with a couple minor tweaks I'm good... :-)
@@TheReplayGamer Except, you say he gives Brooks Robinson “a 4 out of 5” error rating, but in Payoff Pitch, isn’t that very good? I believe a ‘5’ is the highest rating; a ‘1’ is the lowest, no?
I want to do a 1984 Tigers replay. Trying to decide whether I want to do Payoff Pitch, Replay or APBA c&d and using Replay pc to track stats. Thoughts?
Well with Replay the computer will do the heavy lifting. But all three sound like fun to me. Lol. :-) You could even do all three and rotate. That could be fun too.
I did an all-team 1984 replay with PC Replay, and the Tigers dominated it just as they did in real life. On top of that, PC Replay baseball plays QUICKLY. A full game usually takes less than 10 minutes.
There is a gamer who plays Inside Pitch replay games on TH-cam and they are very enjoyable to watch. But I lost any temptation to try that game when I saw him playing a game with the 75 Reds, and Cesar Geronimo was rated as an average range outfielder with a throwing arm that had no impact on baserunners. Anyone with any personal knowledge of 70s baseball knows Geronimo was one of the top, if not the top, centerfielders with a cannon arm that was very accurate. Rarely did a runner even try to take an extra base against him. It made me wonder how all these "newer" games (I've played Strat since 1972) generate these more subjective ratings. Have a lot of these "fancy SABR-ish" stats been applied to long past seasons? Is that how these "newer" game creators arrive at their subjective ratings? If that's the case, then is that a good argument that these "fancy SABR-ish" stats can completely miscast reality? Or maybe Geronimo didn't have many assists in 1976 (since nobody ran on him) so those creators just look at something like that and rate his "arm" as "average," which is completely wrong. I actually SAW Geronimo play a lot. I actually HEARD many announcers talk about him. I actually READ great sportswriters of that era talk about his excellent defense. To claim otherwise is absurd. And what does being that wrong about that clear of a skill say about other arguably MORE subjective ratings such as baserunning, bunting, & hit and run? So I relate to your discussion of Brooks Robinson and Luis Aparacio on this video. Where I differ is that if a game creator misses something so clear cut as how good Cesar Geronimo was in CF, and misses it that badly, I'd never spend my money on the product because I can't trust the entire process. I didn't need Strat and Harold Richman to tell me Geronimo was a "1 (-5)" CFer. But it makes me know I'm spending my money well when I see that on his card in Strat.
Yeah, that is a bigger issue for some gamers than others. It's a bigger deal for me than I originally thought it would be. You make some very good points. :-)
Replay Gamer. Thanks for the review. Payoff Pitch is a good game to match someone else play on video. Along with Strat, you have the pitcher/batter interaction. Without that for me, forget about it. Thanks for the video.
Just found the channel. Had it recommended I watch by TH-cam but could have heard it mentioned elsewhere. Anyway enjoyed your episode hearing about what I am missing out on despite me owning the game. I just can't get myself to sit down at a table and throw dice. Much easier to play at the pc but even there I stopped playing as much as my arm, unbelievably, was hurting bad from throwing dice. : ) Still though in the future I look forward to playing some Payoff Pitch as I love how there is terminology on the card vs just numbers. It is a different way to present things to the player. As for the ratings on those defensive players I hear ya. I would be interesting to hear why Robinson and Aparicio are rated as such. Finally just got to say you have a relaxed way of doing things and it is welcomed for sure by me. I need more chill in my life. Hope the rest of your videos are similar.
Thanks and welcome! :-) Yeah, even though I love cards & dice, there are times I prefer the computer version of the games. There are definitely pros and cons to both... so I'm glad both are an option.
I do understand the sore arm from throwing dice believe it or not, I've had some minor discomfort to where I've needed to move my dice tower around to help alleviate it some.
I agree about Payoff Pitch, the game engine is still my favorite cards & dice baseball game for the reasons you mentioned...
And finally, I think we all could use a little more chill in our life... Lol
It's funny… while I can certainly understand the affection for a computer game by many (especially for keeping track of stats!), personally I welcome the cards & dice; it's one of the reasons why POP is my favorite baseball game. You see, I spend way too much time in front of a digital screen every day. Between my laptop and my iPhone, I spend precious little time in the real, physical 3D world. So the couple of hours I get to spend sitting at my dining table with cards, dice and dice tower are a most welcome reprieve from the flat digital world where everything, without exception, is 10-15" in front of my face. Playin' cards & dice (complete with actual - not digital - sounds) just feels so much more, well… human. I love it.
"Personality of the players built in the card" is a great descriptor that immediately brings to mind my favorite hockey game, Hockey Bones.
I wish I had conveyed it like that in a video I made praising the game actually.
It's funny how many times I've thought of something that would have been great to say in a video... after I've uploaded it. 😆
@@TheReplayGamer nice to know I'm not the only one...
I noticed the Brooks Robinson rating as well! I was going to play the 1969 ALCS using Payoff Pitch, BUT noticed Brooks Robinson and Harmon Killebrew had the same rating at 3B. I inquired about it…..and got an answer, but…..it just doesn’t feel right.
Even if you look at the new metrics as retroactively applied to 1969, Brooks should be an A and Killebrew earns a D…..barely.
Yeah, Payoff Pitch is a great game but the ratings are my biggest concern with it... :-)
I think I have most all games out there and Payoff Pitch is my favorite. I’d like to see more of it but I know you’re playing some others now. Thanks for the videos
Hey Brent, my pleasure. Payoff Pitch does a lot of things right. I imagine I will get it back on the table in the future. :-)
I too bought the Pdf first, then bought it again as cards.
Where did you get that amazing shirt?
Thanks! There was an ad for it on Facebook and I took a chance, it looked a bit suspicious. It took a long time to arrive, but it finally did (it came from China) I like it a lot! :)
@@TheReplayGamer so someone else noticed the shirt too. Great shirt.
@@DeViLzzz2006 It's my favorite shirt and has become my unofficial uniform for the channel... Lol
Very professional review and I totally agree with you it’s my go to game as well
Thank you very much 😊
@@TheReplayGamer my 64 white Sox are starting to pull away after 100 games Philly leads the NL
@@gpuck6331 The races in both leagues were great. I've been doing some research on the 1964 Phillies...very interesting team. My Orioles started the season in Chicago versus the White Sox. They had a great team that year. I'm looking forward to learning more about them as my replay progresses.
Are there any particular teams you are rooting for?
@@TheReplayGamer I’m
From
new england so always like REd Sox but they were awful in 64 did u get new revised rules for pay off pitch
agree with questioable range ratings. also it seems that range doesn't come into play enough.
Yeah, I really struggle with those ratings... :-)
I like the "HOME" word ornament in front of what looks a little like Van Gogh's Starry Night obscured a bit by light.
Thanks. My youngest daughter made both of those... :-)
We had Joe on the show a while back. I think this is my fav C&D baseball game.
Mine too. Which episode was that, I think I missed it...Nevermind I found it. Very Cool! Thanks for the heads up. :-)
Good review. The engine is interesting. From what I've seen of games, this is the most ambitious in terms of what it's trying to do.
The discussion about splits being affected by both the hitter and the pitcher is something the APBA doesn't take into account. It is only affected by the hitter's preference and not the pitcher's which is one rating facing both lefthanders and righthanders.
As to Brooks Robinson's defensive rating, whatever is the top rating, that is what it should probably be. He is the best defensive 3rd baseman ever imo, and though for me Schmidt is GOAT 3rd baseman, a strong argument can be made for Brooks.
Yeah, I still think their game engine (pitcher/batter interaction) is the best. Not having the L/R splits for the pitchers bothers me a little. However, the fielding, running ratings, etc. bother me a great deal. I think the overall game stats will come out ok but getting the best total representation of ALL of the players abilities is more important to me than I originally thought it was. :-)
While I haven't played tabletop baseball, I've long given this a curious look because it appears to be quite well-designed. As someone also trying to design his own (hockey) game(s) on the side, I look to stuff like this that's a little outside the box (sometimes even board gaming stuff that has nothing to do with sports) for inspiration because it looks to be quite well thought-out.
In particular, I think the option to use either dice or cards is good. It's good to have options that cater to preferences.
I'm amazed by the creativity of the people who create these games. I'm often thinking to myself, I wish I would have thought of that. 😀
Nice Review. I think you will find offensive stats are a bit lower for season replays. It was that way for 64 Phillies.
Thanks. Yeah that is one thing I can't speak about yet is the overall accuracy...haven't played enough
Great review. I have been on the fence about purchasing the game and was excited to see that there are updated rules as well as the 2001 season coming soon. The defensive ratings are a concern for me, though.
Thanks. It is still my favorite cards & dice baseball game. The defensive ratings are my biggest concern too but with a couple minor tweaks I'm good... :-)
@@TheReplayGamer Except, you say he gives Brooks Robinson “a 4 out of 5” error rating, but in Payoff Pitch, isn’t that very good? I believe a ‘5’ is the highest rating; a ‘1’ is the lowest, no?
@Richard Yeah, I have no problem with the error ratings. It's the range ratings that I struggle with...
I want to do a 1984 Tigers replay. Trying to decide whether I want to do Payoff Pitch, Replay or APBA c&d and using Replay pc to track stats. Thoughts?
Well with Replay the computer will do the heavy lifting. But all three sound like fun to me. Lol. :-) You could even do all three and rotate. That could be fun too.
I did an all-team 1984 replay with PC Replay, and the Tigers dominated it just as they did in real life. On top of that, PC Replay baseball plays QUICKLY. A full game usually takes less than 10 minutes.
There is a gamer who plays Inside Pitch replay games on TH-cam and they are very enjoyable to watch. But I lost any temptation to try that game when I saw him playing a game with the 75 Reds, and Cesar Geronimo was rated as an average range outfielder with a throwing arm that had no impact on baserunners. Anyone with any personal knowledge of 70s baseball knows Geronimo was one of the top, if not the top, centerfielders with a cannon arm that was very accurate. Rarely did a runner even try to take an extra base against him.
It made me wonder how all these "newer" games (I've played Strat since 1972) generate these more subjective ratings. Have a lot of these "fancy SABR-ish" stats been applied to long past seasons? Is that how these "newer" game creators arrive at their subjective ratings? If that's the case, then is that a good argument that these "fancy SABR-ish" stats can completely miscast reality? Or maybe Geronimo didn't have many assists in 1976 (since nobody ran on him) so those creators just look at something like that and rate his "arm" as "average," which is completely wrong. I actually SAW Geronimo play a lot. I actually HEARD many announcers talk about him. I actually READ great sportswriters of that era talk about his excellent defense. To claim otherwise is absurd. And what does being that wrong about that clear of a skill say about other arguably MORE subjective ratings such as baserunning, bunting, & hit and run?
So I relate to your discussion of Brooks Robinson and Luis Aparacio on this video. Where I differ is that if a game creator misses something so clear cut as how good Cesar Geronimo was in CF, and misses it that badly, I'd never spend my money on the product because I can't trust the entire process. I didn't need Strat and Harold Richman to tell me Geronimo was a "1 (-5)" CFer. But it makes me know I'm spending my money well when I see that on his card in Strat.
Yeah, that is a bigger issue for some gamers than others. It's a bigger deal for me than I originally thought it would be. You make some very good points. :-)
Replay Gamer. Thanks for the review. Payoff Pitch is a good game to match someone else play on video. Along with Strat, you have the pitcher/batter interaction. Without that for me, forget about it. Thanks for the video.
My pleasure. I enjoy watching others play games even if I don't own the game. :-)