The conversations with Dr. Meadows fast made her one of my favorite Remedy characters. She absolutely rolls with these crazy scenarios while remaining very thoughtful, articulate, and genuine. I'm sad that I doubt any of the American Nightmare characters will be back.
This is such a great channel, so few people appreciate Alan Wake and it was one of the first games I played on the 360 so I have a real affinity towards it. I was watching something else that was shorter and I was about to go to sleep but I guess I'm gonna stay up.
I very much appreciate it. Honestly, other than a few channels that we haveveorked with there isn't a lot of people tslling about these games. I think that is a shame.
I think this is one of those cases were an extreme circumstance requires an extreme solution. The fact of the matter is there is no court in our reality that could judge him. What happens in these games is so foreign to anything that happens in real life that it would be beyond the fundamental understandings of any judge or jury. Trust me, I've dealt with the courts a lot, they couldn't even begin to fathom or conceive a punishment, let alone an understanding of the circumstances and events that took place. It is, ultimately, a personal hell that Alan will have to live with.
Yeah as soon as some sort of eldritch nightmare is involved all human logic should fly out the window 😂 I'd say Alan has done the best he could if not better than most people if they were in such a gnarly scenario.
While I agree I'll play devils advocate. Sometimes it is not about the laws of the state. But a sense of personal guilt. Even though no court would condemn actions under these circumstances that doesnt negate how bad someone feels. Good example is soldiers in a state of war. Even though their actions are permitted, many have head noise about it after. The whole myth of weighing your heart against a feather has more to do with internal guilt and not worldly laws.
Under the same logic, eldritch monstrosities like the DP could never be held accountable by the courts. Just like there'd be no way to prove AW was rewriting peoples destiny in a manner that got them killed or turned them into killers, there'd be no way to prove the DP was possessing people and turning them into mindless enslaved killing machines. Does that mean either one should get a free pass, simply because our legal system is inadequate to hold them accountable?
Hartman was already someone taking advantage of people long before Alan showed up in Bright Falls, so casting someone like that, who definitely would have used Alan as he had others similarly, was a no brainer, especially with Alan getting info of people there. Although I do agree that Hartman was on Alan’s list. As for the suicidal girl, even if he was guiding her actions in a more active role, he never went through with her death in the end. Thinking of how it was this random inky shadow that saved her-that wasn’t planned, which makes me believe that the page was a drive-by of information-like free writing or Stream-of-Consciousness writing-where he just acted when he realized what was going on as he ‘passed by’. As though seeing this in his peripheral. I guess what comes down to it for me is how many times are his story decisions made based on what knowledge he’s gained through the Darkness, and how much is available to him. Was Mott truly connected to Hartman, or was that slapped in along with a photograph? Without knowing the state of Bright Falls before Alan Wake, I think it’s a bit of an unknown in some cases. But I DO think that those like Rose and Rusty are extremely unfortunate as they were just the 1st people that Alan met in Bright Falls. Stucky was already taken before Alan’s writing began and thus couldn’t be reversed even if he knew what was happening since the start (he didn’t.) I love these videos on Remedy’s works so much, but Alan Wake has such a special place for me and my own writing, so exploring this game’s themes are just so satisfying. Thanks again!! c:
there was something I noticed when I rewatched the trailer. the three-piece suit that Alan is wearing is almost identical to the one that Mr. Scratch wears in American Nightmare. the difference is the black shirt under the waistcoat. Alan mentioned his double when speaking to Thomas Zane in the Control DLC, but didn't call him by name. the fact that Zane looks like Alan now and how he spoke to Alan in the DLC leads me to believe that it wasn't actually Thomas Zane. he could be the new Mr.Scratch, or the new face of the Dark Presence, or maybe he is who the story says he is and Alan speaks for the dark now. I don't know, but I want to hear your thoughts on this. I feel like there is something there, but I just can't quite narrow it down.
Alan wasn't a hero, and wasn't really ill intended, but he was angry. And desperate. These are very dangerous states for anyone that need to make important decisions.
I think it's important to note that most of the manuscript Alan had already written was done under the influence of the Dark Presence before Zane woke him up.
Honestly I doubt Alan had much of an influence over the hiss invasion. I think he just slightly altered the hiss to make it more similar to the dark presence, like with the chant, so the fbc would maybe be a bit more prepared to deal with the dark presence,and the hiss would have been a threat regardless of Alan’s influence. Then again, its entirely possible that he did incite the invasion. Just my two cents I guess.
I devour Alan Wake analysis videos just cuz I find the narrative so compelling, but this may take the cake. It’s really fascinating to consider the morality of what is happening not only with Alan’s writing but the influence of the places of power more broadly. Awesome video, thanks!
I love the world these games have created. It is really effective at highlighting how the introduction of supernatural concepts, abilities, and entities violently disrupts an attempt to hold ethics, morality, and law to events. When a completely and truly alien power puts hands on human situations, we’re met with a reality where any concept of morals we have becomes debatably inapplicable. Orange and Blue morality vs Black and White. The real point though, is that ethics being thrown out by the situation does not excuse the actors in that situation from doing the same. We still have will and agency, in some degree, so there remains a responsibility to act morally, as best we are able. Both Alan Wake and Control do an amazing job of subtly showcasing just how hard that is and how foreign these powers are. The Hiss may be clearly malevolent and deadly to humans, but there’s little evidence that if explicitly is evil as we define it and after humanity personally. Meanwhile the Board (i think it was called?) may be helping but there’s plenty to show that it’s also not fully aligned with human morals. Awesome work in the games and awesome video!
@@GamingUniversityUoG let's see... i guess the subject matter in itself is very interesting to me, morality and philosophy in games, action and reaction, consequences and what-ifs, and just overall the excellent points you're making here. until now i've never even thought about the fact that meadows' monologue must have come from alan's mind, being deeply troubled by what he's doing, it puts a whole new spin on it for me. and how after he realized what was happening, he from that point forward had informed consent and could be made responsible for every word he wrote. and how maggie's page could be interpreted in a _completely_ different way than i have done for years. the editing is top notch. the screen ratio changing, the reddit screenshots, the grain and blur effects, the yellow marked text passages, the tape recorder voiceover, the little sound effects... mwah, chef's kiss. also, i think your narration has improved a lot. your voice has always been pleasant, calm and easy to follow, but lately it's been sounding even more.. vibrant i guess? less and less like you're reading what you wrote down but just talking out what's in your head. you're not nervous to talk into a mic anymore and it shows. i can't wait for the video on errand boy! i'm rereading it right now to prepare :D
What I always wonder, and I understand you have already covered in numerous videos, is Alan's knowledge of Bright Falls before his arrival. How much of what is revealed simply a conjuring of Alan's writings, or already existing lore from before Departure. Was there always a secret society in the town, or did Alan make that up? Was Rose always an obsessive fangirl, or did Alan get that impression from her when they met and wrote her to be that way? Was Hartman always using his patients to explore the powers of the lake, or did Alan write him that way to make him an antagonist? This of course leads to a final question: if any of these were already fact, how did Alan know when writing Departure? I suppose we could presume the dark presence gave him omniscient insight into the secret history of the town.
It's really hard to answer any of these questions. The biggest detail we would need is whether writing here would change the past. We see it change the present and future. But if it changes the past it opens up a whole new bag of worms. And yes. The Dark Place does give Alan a degree of omniscience. He mentions it in the QR code visions that he gets dreams of people he never met and shouldn't know about. Some dreams about those he does know that inform.him what they have been doing. He gets radio broadcasts from the outside and connects to TVs. Both give him an insight about what happens outside then uses then to make his new story accurate.
@@GamingUniversityUoG Right. Thanks for clearing that up. I guess the question that needs to be asked in terms of whether Alan can change the past is whether other characters not explicitly mentioned with the story would acknowledge the change. For example, would perhaps one of Rose’s friends or family members all of a sudden be given memories of her being obsessed with Alan to a dangerous degree, or would they find the change in her character sudden and not representative of how she was?
I think one part of my thesis is that ill intentions versus good intentions doesn't matter. The end result is what he is responsible for. I still.consider him a hero in the sense of self sacrifice to prevent what could have been an apocalyptic event. But he is VERY flawed.
This is such a great video. I love that you keep venturing beyond lore into these philosophical topics. It is certain that most authors create art to say something, not simply say "look what a cool lore-filled world we've built". And while many fans focus on the latter (which is also fascinating, no judgement here), the former often stays unexplored beyond your personal feelings.
Random aside, but that quote from Alan around 7:45 "the genre seems to be shifting" reminds me of my own creative endeavors, whether it be pixel art, or minecraft builds, or even earlier where I was bored and wrote a little short story even though I'm not really a writer, it always seems like my work shifts. I plan it one way but eventually it will kinda do its own thing and turn into whatever it wants to be. My short story shifted into a ghost story, my minecraft builds start with my base idea and slowly shift into another build entirely. I don't know if this is the normal flow of things when doing anything creative, or just my weird mind lol
Good morning video. But eff Hartman. It was kind of funny when Alan locked the door and I thought Hartman died but then turns out he’s alive because the dark presence didn’t even want to bother with him and then he decides to take a dip in the lake is just the cherry on top.
I love your videos. Also, this is off-topic but it blows my mind that Alan Wake and Doctor Darling are voiced by the same guy. He does such a good job of seeming like two totally different people. Alan's voice is so much raspier than Darling's! Also, one thing I'm curious about is will they mention a huge number of unexplained deaths 13 years ago in Alan Wake 2? Or will it only be named characters like Stucky that get mentioned. Basically, I wonder if the majority of taken were real people or if the story created them.
As far as how they classify the deaths of these people, it likely isn't reported as deaths. More 'Unsolved Missing Person' FBI probably only cares about their lost agent. And yeah Matthew is amazing at his voices and portrayal.
@@GamingUniversityUoG Even if they don't report them as dead it's a huge number of people that disappeared from a town over the course of the night. That'd be a pretty big deal and probably draw national attention though I suppose the FBC might have covered it up. "Gangs on PCP" Alan Wake 2 is one of the two games I am most excited for this year though what I really want is Control 2!
Even before this video, I have had a personal theory I've held for years, "All fiction is real, just not Here", expanded I mean that if you consider the idea of a Multiverse, and that multiverse as infinite, then every event, every idea, every thought, every possibility occurs, at least once. My thoughts with that theory is, the question becomes, do you believe in infinity? If you don't, then the question becomes, does the world created still exist if the story is not well made? The Jenny LeClue game touches on this, the author of her story doesn't want to write an actual murder but his publisher refuses to publish any new books as they've all be very samey low stakes mysteries till the story of the game, ironically, I think the lengths the Author has gone to not write a murder has inadvertently resulted in an even darker story considering the new backstory Jenny's new situation reveals to the player {that the publisher refuses to care about after the author reveals that he didn't actually kill anybody, dropping him}. Alternatively, you can look at the Myst series, where writers write books that link to other worlds, and the two trains of thought that butt heads repeatedly in the story, "The writers of the 'Ages' linking to pre-existing worlds then manipulating them with their written words", or the other "The writers of the 'Ages' write then into existence wholly and utterly, only manipulating what they themselves created". More simply, are you in writing a story documenting and/or manipulating a pre-existing world, or are you creating it wholly from your work, kind of need to answer that before you even start considering the extent of an author's morality.
I can’t wait for you to drop that Errand Boy video and see what other videos you manage to make out of this book. There’s so much nifty stuff you can talk about from it: The Creator’s Dilemma Excerpt, why Remedy decided to share that specific Alex Casey Excerpt, and all that weird history in Bright Falls detailed from the town’s history book. I remember there being a lot to it.
It is a very involved episode. I have the beta version of Errand Boy done. Just going through it all and making adjustments before release. Hope you all enjoy the finished product.
A thought- My understanding is that there's a Norse mythology influence on the Remedy universe. Might Saga Anderson and Alex Casey be representations of Odin's two ravens. They are his eyes and ears, and Alan is the "god" of this world. In some depictions, one is black and one is white. Saga Anderson's name itself is a connection to the Norse sagas and the Andersons from Alan Wake 1.
100% Norse Mythos and other northern european folklore influenced this story. Even as far back as Max Payne we see it. I wouldn't link Casey and Anderson to Huggen and Munin though. Odin Anderson claims his ravens were stolen by the Dark Presence. Explaining why it has control over the bird enemy type and explaining her omniscience. Saga appears to be a granddaughter, le at least relates to them. Freya Anderson was the daughter of one of them.
I'm not sure he would have done things differently. As he claims himself "the scales always need to balance, everything has a price.” In order to undo the whole situation, to not let darkness consume everything he had to create conflicts and there had to be victims. Sure, it's terrible but there was no other way - Zane "tried to cut corners" and it all have gone worse. Speaking of Zane - one could argue Alan could have also been a character writen by Zane - or Alan wrote in Zane who wrote in Alan, who... now it's egg and a chicken kinda thing. But if that is possible then maybe Alan had no choice at all as everything he did (and still does) was already decided long time ago when Zane wrote himself out of existence.
Considering Bright Falls isn't a ghost town by the end, and the game has you face a freakin' army of Taken at one point, it's safe to say many were spawned into existence just to serve the plot.
But if they were spawned into existence wouldn't they have like their own memories of the town and would people have memory of them? Doesn't that make it as bad or perhaps worse? Being made with thought and feeling only to be possessed by darkness? Excuse me if I'm misunderstanding something
I don't know that we can say that. I think it's likely the Taken "respawn", so the lower bound for deaths would be more like "the number of Taken we see on screen at one time" rather than "the number of Taken Alan defeats over the entire game".
Clay mentions seeing a parade of funerals before and after his arrival. All the missing person reports and posters all over shows that a lot of people did indeed vanish permanently.
I think Alan is so dead set on returning to Alice he hasn't stopped to think about how this would affect everyone else and when he does realize that it hurts him immensely.
Sometimes, moral line was disregarded when it comes to extreme circumstances or situations that is beyond a human comprehension. You cannot think straight if you are in situation that is so foreign to you. But it still doesnt excuse his actions IF he is totally aware of the effect of his writing. The argument of moral line in games like this wasnt just black and white nor grey, it's. . Complicated
I think Alan's morality is ok, considering where he is. What were his options? Kill himself to stop dark presence from using him (which mean it would probably move on to other artist in the area). Use people as characters and keep damage to a minimum, while working towards protecting an innocent life and reality in general from scary ass being at his own cost. Or create a bunch of sentient living and breathing people out of nothing to serve a plot and die at the end of it. All of it is f-d up, and to me second option look like compromise of necessary evil.
For the most part, this entire essay in response to a section of the community that seeds Alan as a monster. That any use of this power that harms anyone, for whatever reason, makes him a horrible person. Like you, I dont agree with that. Hence the existence of this essay
"create a bunch of sentient living and breathing people out of nothing" Alan confirmed that he can't just create something out of nowhere. He can rewrite stuff, and most likely retroactively change things, but he can't just create people out of thin air. He didn't create Saga Anderson, there was a person called Saga Anderson who he wrote into his story. Likewise, Alex Casey isn't the same Casey from his books, just someone who has the same name as him (notice how Alex in 2 is an FBI agent while Book Casey is a hardboiled cop), other than that little detail, I agree.
@@GamingUniversityUoG I can try but my flux capacitor is in the shop for repairs and I've never been a fan of creating bootstrap paradoxes. :p I am in all seriousness glad that we got a release date relatively close to the time, when there is likely only some polishing left to do, as I think we would have all been very annoyed to get a less firm release date 18 months out as that would mean a year and a half of intolerable hype and a good chance that the release date would change for the worse.
i ask does it matter? plot has to plot and like a good batman tale, alan does not exactly kill anyone, but someone has to die (or be "unconscious" according to detective vision). i am here for the many videos and the discussion and this is definitely one of those how much into the minutia we going? if it is all some super meta narrative on artistic creation, the thing lake has created is a story in a game and that makes the players implicit, as well, no? a la levine and bioshock i dunno, these are the things i was thinking on as i was watching. cannot wait for all the aw2 coverage!!! leggoooo!!!
Mostly, the topic matters to me because I see so many discussions in the community claiming Alan is a monster. This is my formal response to those criticisms.
@@GamingUniversityUoG that is most interesting and something i have not heard before. if you are one that thinks life is not "all right" i can see how you could come to that conclusion. but also, if your compulsion is to create, and creation is dramatic, annnnnd it is being manipulated, what else are you supposed to do?
Ok but what he thing we all want to know is what happened to the friend of Jesse and Dylan, who got turned into a dog and disappeared at the Ordinary AWE
In The Alan Wake Files if you read the pdf version of the book there is a water damaged manuscript page that was found in a ditch. You can highlight the text and copy and and it to read the obscured text. Nothing really profound in it, but still cool
Ya know I've recently thought of a theory that the ending of Alan Wake 1 referenced Control. The line "It's not a Lake, It's an Ocean" could be referring to the Ocean View Motel. Alan is trapped in the dark place which is located behind the spiral door of the Ocean view hotel. Maybe Alan was hinting to his location at the end.
Sam has directly spoken on this topic. It comes down to Cauldron Lake not being a small area that has reality altering abilities. Once inside the dark place it is an entire reality. An ocean if you will. One of my theories is that below the Foundation lies the dark place. That it is the soil in which the roots of the tree come up from.
For the record most of Departure was written while Alan was being deceived by the Dark Presence so an argument could be made that the deaths are not on him but the Darkness itself.
Oddball question, but do you think that there is any significance to every single NPC in American nightmare being an attractive woman? The scientist was even written to have just come from a party so that it "makes sense" that she is in a sexy outfit and makeup. I just found it quite interesting Edit: I always find it slightly disturbing to see my real name in the credits of your videos, and that is also somewhat fitting
Dude! No joke I didnt realize it was him until recently. I've been watching the movie since I was a kid and just noticed. I wanted to call the main character Shirley the whole time lol.
All of these videos were made 2 months back so they are not interfering with our work on Psiking. Once it is released you'll see why it took longer than the others.
The best part of Forbidden Planet is when Dr. Morbius said "IT'S MORBIN' TIME" and morbed all over those guys. More seriously, it's a really good movie. Feels a bit dated in a few aspects, but at its core there's a lot of really great ideas and themes, and you can tell there was a lot of passion in the project.
It blew my mind the first time I realized the heroic captain from Forbidden Planet is also the goofy doctor from Airplane and the goofy copy from Naked Gun. That said, it's really a very, very good movie and holds up surprisingly well considering how old it is! Even the special effects don't look too bad when you take into account its age.
@@Riggswolfe The visuals honestly hold up incredibly well. Most sci-fi movies of the time would just put stuff in like an empty room with a typewriter and a TV for a computer. They actually made some very impressive shots and scenes for a lot of the visuals. To be honest, in some ways I find them more believable than a lot of the actor-in-a-cgi-room that we see in movies today.
@@Generallybreak Oh, it holds up quite well. It's honestly surprising and I wouldn't be shocked to find out it had some impact on later sci-fi. There are some things like the monster obviously being an animation and some of the laser beam effects that are a bit dated but other than that it's great. You're making me want to watch it again!
I now think about it.... What if 13 years lock down in Dark Place split Alan in two again. Something like Mr Scratch. And his "desperate wish for free" create another Alan. Author without moral feeling's. And he decide write really horror story for his wish come true. And real Alan will try stop his dark half from contless kiling and manipulation's in sequel.
Based upon the return trailer I got the impression there was a feral version of alan on the lose. Not like Scratch who was very deliberate. Just wild and manic
Simple answer, we have no clue. It is one of the biggest mysteries. Personally, I think alan used his character of Zane to write a lore reason for the clicker to be there. After all we only interact with the Bright presence who is wearing Zane's skin.
@@GamingUniversityUoG yeah, you're rigur, but with the Remedyverse confirmed in Control, now the already confusing Wake lore became even more weird lol, can't wait for Alan Wake 2 tho
Its really interesting question. Yeah, i understand Alan's wish escape from Darkness, but was he right when he manipulate lives ordinary people for happy ending he want? Its really interesting question.... I can understand when he wrote Departure, because he was manipulated by Barbara. But what about FBC? Im not sure that he create Hiss, but he really manipulate story, which was trigger for they invasion.... So many people died from it.
Mad respect, I love your videos but I gotta disagree with you to an extent. What if the tale is the Russian tale of the baba yaga? Not the Norse tale. In the tale of the Russian baba yaga, it tells a story of three witches, one young, one old, and the other middle aged that would drag victims to the lair of the witches. Once the middle aged witch brings in a victim the elderly might wear the victims face.
Hes not a hero or a villain, one could argue if the Dark Place chose someone else, the situation could be much worse, but Alan is weak willed at times and quite selfish, so hes a mixed bag but by god there are worse
The conversations with Dr. Meadows fast made her one of my favorite Remedy characters. She absolutely rolls with these crazy scenarios while remaining very thoughtful, articulate, and genuine. I'm sad that I doubt any of the American Nightmare characters will be back.
It is so weird because her 5 minutes of dialogue probably sums up one of the most interesting philosophical debate that comes up in the games.
This is such a great channel, so few people appreciate Alan Wake and it was one of the first games I played on the 360 so I have a real affinity towards it. I was watching something else that was shorter and I was about to go to sleep but I guess I'm gonna stay up.
I very much appreciate it. Honestly, other than a few channels that we haveveorked with there isn't a lot of people tslling about these games. I think that is a shame.
I think this is one of those cases were an extreme circumstance requires an extreme solution. The fact of the matter is there is no court in our reality that could judge him. What happens in these games is so foreign to anything that happens in real life that it would be beyond the fundamental understandings of any judge or jury. Trust me, I've dealt with the courts a lot, they couldn't even begin to fathom or conceive a punishment, let alone an understanding of the circumstances and events that took place. It is, ultimately, a personal hell that Alan will have to live with.
Yeah as soon as some sort of eldritch nightmare is involved all human logic should fly out the window 😂 I'd say Alan has done the best he could if not better than most people if they were in such a gnarly scenario.
@@cosseybomb couldn’t agree more
While I agree I'll play devils advocate. Sometimes it is not about the laws of the state. But a sense of personal guilt. Even though no court would condemn actions under these circumstances that doesnt negate how bad someone feels.
Good example is soldiers in a state of war. Even though their actions are permitted, many have head noise about it after.
The whole myth of weighing your heart against a feather has more to do with internal guilt and not worldly laws.
Good point, however FBC, as part of games reality, could understand and judge those events and Alan in particular, it's what they do.
Under the same logic, eldritch monstrosities like the DP could never be held accountable by the courts. Just like there'd be no way to prove AW was rewriting peoples destiny in a manner that got them killed or turned them into killers, there'd be no way to prove the DP was possessing people and turning them into mindless enslaved killing machines. Does that mean either one should get a free pass, simply because our legal system is inadequate to hold them accountable?
13:44 While he's sometimes driven to write dark and horrible things into his stories Alan's ultimately a good man.
Yeah Dark imaginations don't equate to a bad person. Can't blame the Ego for what the ID thinks.
Hartman was already someone taking advantage of people long before Alan showed up in Bright Falls, so casting someone like that, who definitely would have used Alan as he had others similarly, was a no brainer, especially with Alan getting info of people there. Although I do agree that Hartman was on Alan’s list.
As for the suicidal girl, even if he was guiding her actions in a more active role, he never went through with her death in the end. Thinking of how it was this random inky shadow that saved her-that wasn’t planned, which makes me believe that the page was a drive-by of information-like free writing or Stream-of-Consciousness writing-where he just acted when he realized what was going on as he ‘passed by’. As though seeing this in his peripheral.
I guess what comes down to it for me is how many times are his story decisions made based on what knowledge he’s gained through the Darkness, and how much is available to him. Was Mott truly connected to Hartman, or was that slapped in along with a photograph? Without knowing the state of Bright Falls before Alan Wake, I think it’s a bit of an unknown in some cases.
But I DO think that those like Rose and Rusty are extremely unfortunate as they were just the 1st people that Alan met in Bright Falls. Stucky was already taken before Alan’s writing began and thus couldn’t be reversed even if he knew what was happening since the start (he didn’t.)
I love these videos on Remedy’s works so much, but Alan Wake has such a special place for me and my own writing, so exploring this game’s themes are just so satisfying. Thanks again!! c:
there was something I noticed when I rewatched the trailer. the three-piece suit that Alan is wearing is almost identical to the one that Mr. Scratch wears in American Nightmare. the difference is the black shirt under the waistcoat. Alan mentioned his double when speaking to Thomas Zane in the Control DLC, but didn't call him by name. the fact that Zane looks like Alan now and how he spoke to Alan in the DLC leads me to believe that it wasn't actually Thomas Zane. he could be the new Mr.Scratch, or the new face of the Dark Presence, or maybe he is who the story says he is and Alan speaks for the dark now. I don't know, but I want to hear your thoughts on this. I feel like there is something there, but I just can't quite narrow it down.
Alan wasn't a hero, and wasn't really ill intended, but he was angry. And desperate. These are very dangerous states for anyone that need to make important decisions.
I think it's important to note that most of the manuscript Alan had already written was done under the influence of the Dark Presence before Zane woke him up.
Yep I mention that in the video
Wonderful and very educational video-essay! Very much looking forward to the continuation!
Next one will be a lot of fun!
Can't wait for the Errand Boy episode
It will be something a little different and, I hope, a lot of fun.
Awesome educational experience through this video on Alan Wake man!
You got it buddy!
Honestly I doubt Alan had much of an influence over the hiss invasion. I think he just slightly altered the hiss to make it more similar to the dark presence, like with the chant, so the fbc would maybe be a bit more prepared to deal with the dark presence,and the hiss would have been a threat regardless of Alan’s influence. Then again, its entirely possible that he did incite the invasion. Just my two cents I guess.
Glad I found this channel! Just binge watched all of the control/Alan wake vids. *chefs kiss* cant wait for more. 🎉
Glad to have you aboard! You must have been busy for a while lol. I don't even remember how long those playlists are at this point. Glad you enjoy!
I devour Alan Wake analysis videos just cuz I find the narrative so compelling, but this may take the cake. It’s really fascinating to consider the morality of what is happening not only with Alan’s writing but the influence of the places of power more broadly. Awesome video, thanks!
I love the world these games have created. It is really effective at highlighting how the introduction of supernatural concepts, abilities, and entities violently disrupts an attempt to hold ethics, morality, and law to events. When a completely and truly alien power puts hands on human situations, we’re met with a reality where any concept of morals we have becomes debatably inapplicable. Orange and Blue morality vs Black and White.
The real point though, is that ethics being thrown out by the situation does not excuse the actors in that situation from doing the same. We still have will and agency, in some degree, so there remains a responsibility to act morally, as best we are able. Both Alan Wake and Control do an amazing job of subtly showcasing just how hard that is and how foreign these powers are. The Hiss may be clearly malevolent and deadly to humans, but there’s little evidence that if explicitly is evil as we define it and after humanity personally. Meanwhile the Board (i think it was called?) may be helping but there’s plenty to show that it’s also not fully aligned with human morals.
Awesome work in the games and awesome video!
it was a joy to catch this early on patreon, this is honestly one of my favorite videos you ever made
Thank you so much! Out of curiosity, what about this one stood out to you? I'm always looking for feedback in how to better the channel and content
@@GamingUniversityUoG let's see... i guess the subject matter in itself is very interesting to me, morality and philosophy in games, action and reaction, consequences and what-ifs, and just overall the excellent points you're making here. until now i've never even thought about the fact that meadows' monologue must have come from alan's mind, being deeply troubled by what he's doing, it puts a whole new spin on it for me. and how after he realized what was happening, he from that point forward had informed consent and could be made responsible for every word he wrote. and how maggie's page could be interpreted in a _completely_ different way than i have done for years.
the editing is top notch. the screen ratio changing, the reddit screenshots, the grain and blur effects, the yellow marked text passages, the tape recorder voiceover, the little sound effects... mwah, chef's kiss.
also, i think your narration has improved a lot. your voice has always been pleasant, calm and easy to follow, but lately it's been sounding even more.. vibrant i guess? less and less like you're reading what you wrote down but just talking out what's in your head. you're not nervous to talk into a mic anymore and it shows.
i can't wait for the video on errand boy! i'm rereading it right now to prepare :D
What I always wonder, and I understand you have already covered in numerous videos, is Alan's knowledge of Bright Falls before his arrival.
How much of what is revealed simply a conjuring of Alan's writings, or already existing lore from before Departure.
Was there always a secret society in the town, or did Alan make that up?
Was Rose always an obsessive fangirl, or did Alan get that impression from her when they met and wrote her to be that way?
Was Hartman always using his patients to explore the powers of the lake, or did Alan write him that way to make him an antagonist?
This of course leads to a final question: if any of these were already fact, how did Alan know when writing Departure? I suppose we could presume the dark presence gave him omniscient insight into the secret history of the town.
It's really hard to answer any of these questions.
The biggest detail we would need is whether writing here would change the past. We see it change the present and future. But if it changes the past it opens up a whole new bag of worms.
And yes. The Dark Place does give Alan a degree of omniscience. He mentions it in the QR code visions that he gets dreams of people he never met and shouldn't know about. Some dreams about those he does know that inform.him what they have been doing. He gets radio broadcasts from the outside and connects to TVs. Both give him an insight about what happens outside then uses then to make his new story accurate.
@@GamingUniversityUoG Right. Thanks for clearing that up.
I guess the question that needs to be asked in terms of whether Alan can change the past is whether other characters not explicitly mentioned with the story would acknowledge the change.
For example, would perhaps one of Rose’s friends or family members all of a sudden be given memories of her being obsessed with Alan to a dangerous degree, or would they find the change in her character sudden and not representative of how she was?
Alan wasn't a hero, and wasn't really ill intended, but he was angry.
I think one part of my thesis is that ill intentions versus good intentions doesn't matter. The end result is what he is responsible for.
I still.consider him a hero in the sense of self sacrifice to prevent what could have been an apocalyptic event. But he is VERY flawed.
thanks a very important disscusion of how dangerous what alan is doing
Imagine someone with the same talent who didn't care about the consequences. Hence why Hartman was such a scary antagonist.
@@GamingUniversityUoG yes ☠☠he would sacrifice evryone for immortality or something like that
This is such a great video. I love that you keep venturing beyond lore into these philosophical topics. It is certain that most authors create art to say something, not simply say "look what a cool lore-filled world we've built". And while many fans focus on the latter (which is also fascinating, no judgement here), the former often stays unexplored beyond your personal feelings.
Random aside, but that quote from Alan around 7:45 "the genre seems to be shifting" reminds me of my own creative endeavors, whether it be pixel art, or minecraft builds, or even earlier where I was bored and wrote a little short story even though I'm not really a writer, it always seems like my work shifts. I plan it one way but eventually it will kinda do its own thing and turn into whatever it wants to be. My short story shifted into a ghost story, my minecraft builds start with my base idea and slowly shift into another build entirely. I don't know if this is the normal flow of things when doing anything creative, or just my weird mind lol
Love your videos! Thank you for this.
My absolute pleasure! I'm glad you enjoy
Good morning video. But eff Hartman. It was kind of funny when Alan locked the door and I thought Hartman died but then turns out he’s alive because the dark presence didn’t even want to bother with him and then he decides to take a dip in the lake is just the cherry on top.
I love your videos. Also, this is off-topic but it blows my mind that Alan Wake and Doctor Darling are voiced by the same guy. He does such a good job of seeming like two totally different people. Alan's voice is so much raspier than Darling's! Also, one thing I'm curious about is will they mention a huge number of unexplained deaths 13 years ago in Alan Wake 2? Or will it only be named characters like Stucky that get mentioned. Basically, I wonder if the majority of taken were real people or if the story created them.
As far as how they classify the deaths of these people, it likely isn't reported as deaths. More 'Unsolved Missing Person'
FBI probably only cares about their lost agent.
And yeah Matthew is amazing at his voices and portrayal.
@@GamingUniversityUoG Even if they don't report them as dead it's a huge number of people that disappeared from a town over the course of the night.
That'd be a pretty big deal and probably draw national attention though I suppose the FBC might have covered it up. "Gangs on PCP"
Alan Wake 2 is one of the two games I am most excited for this year though what I really want is Control 2!
Even before this video, I have had a personal theory I've held for years, "All fiction is real, just not Here", expanded I mean that if you consider the idea of a Multiverse, and that multiverse as infinite, then every event, every idea, every thought, every possibility occurs, at least once.
My thoughts with that theory is, the question becomes, do you believe in infinity?
If you don't, then the question becomes, does the world created still exist if the story is not well made?
The Jenny LeClue game touches on this, the author of her story doesn't want to write an actual murder but his publisher refuses to publish any new books as they've all be very samey low stakes mysteries till the story of the game, ironically, I think the lengths the Author has gone to not write a murder has inadvertently resulted in an even darker story considering the new backstory Jenny's new situation reveals to the player {that the publisher refuses to care about after the author reveals that he didn't actually kill anybody, dropping him}.
Alternatively, you can look at the Myst series, where writers write books that link to other worlds, and the two trains of thought that butt heads repeatedly in the story, "The writers of the 'Ages' linking to pre-existing worlds then manipulating them with their written words", or the other "The writers of the 'Ages' write then into existence wholly and utterly, only manipulating what they themselves created".
More simply, are you in writing a story documenting and/or manipulating a pre-existing world, or are you creating it wholly from your work, kind of need to answer that before you even start considering the extent of an author's morality.
I can’t wait for you to drop that Errand Boy video and see what other videos you manage to make out of this book.
There’s so much nifty stuff you can talk about from it: The Creator’s Dilemma Excerpt, why Remedy decided to share that specific Alex Casey Excerpt, and all that weird history in Bright Falls detailed from the town’s history book. I remember there being a lot to it.
It is a very involved episode. I have the beta version of Errand Boy done. Just going through it all and making adjustments before release. Hope you all enjoy the finished product.
A thought-
My understanding is that there's a Norse mythology influence on the Remedy universe. Might Saga Anderson and Alex Casey be representations of Odin's two ravens. They are his eyes and ears, and Alan is the "god" of this world. In some depictions, one is black and one is white. Saga Anderson's name itself is a connection to the Norse sagas and the Andersons from Alan Wake 1.
100% Norse Mythos and other northern european folklore influenced this story. Even as far back as Max Payne we see it.
I wouldn't link Casey and Anderson to Huggen and Munin though. Odin Anderson claims his ravens were stolen by the Dark Presence. Explaining why it has control over the bird enemy type and explaining her omniscience.
Saga appears to be a granddaughter, le at least relates to them. Freya Anderson was the daughter of one of them.
I'm not sure he would have done things differently. As he claims himself "the scales always need to balance, everything has a price.” In order to undo the whole situation, to not let darkness consume everything he had to create conflicts and there had to be victims. Sure, it's terrible but there was no other way - Zane "tried to cut corners" and it all have gone worse.
Speaking of Zane - one could argue Alan could have also been a character writen by Zane - or Alan wrote in Zane who wrote in Alan, who... now it's egg and a chicken kinda thing. But if that is possible then maybe Alan had no choice at all as everything he did (and still does) was already decided long time ago when Zane wrote himself out of existence.
Considering Bright Falls isn't a ghost town by the end, and the game has you face a freakin' army of Taken at one point, it's safe to say many were spawned into existence just to serve the plot.
But if they were spawned into existence wouldn't they have like their own memories of the town and would people have memory of them? Doesn't that make it as bad or perhaps worse? Being made with thought and feeling only to be possessed by darkness?
Excuse me if I'm misunderstanding something
I don't know that we can say that. I think it's likely the Taken "respawn", so the lower bound for deaths would be more like "the number of Taken we see on screen at one time" rather than "the number of Taken Alan defeats over the entire game".
Clay mentions seeing a parade of funerals before and after his arrival. All the missing person reports and posters all over shows that a lot of people did indeed vanish permanently.
I think Alan is so dead set on returning to Alice he hasn't stopped to think about how this would affect everyone else and when he does realize that it hurts him immensely.
Sometimes, moral line was disregarded when it comes to extreme circumstances or situations that is beyond a human comprehension. You cannot think straight if you are in situation that is so foreign to you. But it still doesnt excuse his actions IF he is totally aware of the effect of his writing. The argument of moral line in games like this wasnt just black and white nor grey, it's. . Complicated
Unrelated note to Alan Wake but I find your voice to be soothing. If you ever plan to do like a podcast or something I would totally listen to it.
Haha thank you! I do have a couple podcasts on the channel under the Community Corner. I've considered making those more regular.
I think Alan's morality is ok, considering where he is. What were his options? Kill himself to stop dark presence from using him (which mean it would probably move on to other artist in the area). Use people as characters and keep damage to a minimum, while working towards protecting an innocent life and reality in general from scary ass being at his own cost. Or create a bunch of sentient living and breathing people out of nothing to serve a plot and die at the end of it. All of it is f-d up, and to me second option look like compromise of necessary evil.
For the most part, this entire essay in response to a section of the community that seeds Alan as a monster. That any use of this power that harms anyone, for whatever reason, makes him a horrible person.
Like you, I dont agree with that. Hence the existence of this essay
@@GamingUniversityUoG essay is great, as always!
"create a bunch of sentient living and breathing people out of nothing"
Alan confirmed that he can't just create something out of nowhere. He can rewrite stuff, and most likely retroactively change things, but he can't just create people out of thin air. He didn't create Saga Anderson, there was a person called Saga Anderson who he wrote into his story. Likewise, Alex Casey isn't the same Casey from his books, just someone who has the same name as him (notice how Alex in 2 is an FBI agent while Book Casey is a hardboiled cop), other than that little detail, I agree.
Only 133 days until we learn more!
_(Excited squeaking followed by an excess of giddy energy.)_
We need to just master time travel so we can steal a copy
@@GamingUniversityUoG I can try but my flux capacitor is in the shop for repairs and I've never been a fan of creating bootstrap paradoxes. :p I am in all seriousness glad that we got a release date relatively close to the time, when there is likely only some polishing left to do, as I think we would have all been very annoyed to get a less firm release date 18 months out as that would mean a year and a half of intolerable hype and a good chance that the release date would change for the worse.
As always, great video. Great insight
Thanks for this great overview 🙂
I appreciate all the work you put into these videos, I just finished Alan wake again and this vid came right on time 👍🏾 Ty gaming university 🙏🏾
Perfect timing! It is my pleasure. I'm glad you enjoy the work we do over here.
i ask does it matter? plot has to plot and like a good batman tale, alan does not exactly kill anyone, but someone has to die (or be "unconscious" according to detective vision). i am here for the many videos and the discussion and this is definitely one of those how much into the minutia we going? if it is all some super meta narrative on artistic creation, the thing lake has created is a story in a game and that makes the players implicit, as well, no? a la levine and bioshock
i dunno, these are the things i was thinking on as i was watching. cannot wait for all the aw2 coverage!!! leggoooo!!!
Mostly, the topic matters to me because I see so many discussions in the community claiming Alan is a monster. This is my formal response to those criticisms.
@@GamingUniversityUoG that is most interesting and something i have not heard before. if you are one that thinks life is not "all right" i can see how you could come to that conclusion. but also, if your compulsion is to create, and creation is dramatic, annnnnd it is being manipulated, what else are you supposed to do?
Ok but what he thing we all want to know is what happened to the friend of Jesse and Dylan, who got turned into a dog and disappeared at the Ordinary AWE
He will come back in Control 2 and will bite the main boss. Give him rabies. Game Over.
In The Alan Wake Files if you read the pdf version of the book there is a water damaged manuscript page that was found in a ditch. You can highlight the text and copy and and it to read the obscured text. Nothing really profound in it, but still cool
Ya know I've recently thought of a theory that the ending of Alan Wake 1 referenced Control. The line "It's not a Lake, It's an Ocean" could be referring to the Ocean View Motel.
Alan is trapped in the dark place which is located behind the spiral door of the Ocean view hotel. Maybe Alan was hinting to his location at the end.
Sam has directly spoken on this topic. It comes down to Cauldron Lake not being a small area that has reality altering abilities. Once inside the dark place it is an entire reality. An ocean if you will.
One of my theories is that below the Foundation lies the dark place. That it is the soil in which the roots of the tree come up from.
@@GamingUniversityUoG Looking forward to your videos on Alan Wake 2 after it releases
OMG NEW VIDEO OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG
Haha someone sounds excited!
For the record most of Departure was written while Alan was being deceived by the Dark Presence so an argument could be made that the deaths are not on him but the Darkness itself.
Oddball question, but do you think that there is any significance to every single NPC in American nightmare being an attractive woman? The scientist was even written to have just come from a party so that it "makes sense" that she is in a sexy outfit and makeup. I just found it quite interesting
Edit: I always find it slightly disturbing to see my real name in the credits of your videos, and that is also somewhat fitting
I’m watching “forbidden planet” now, but it’s a little hard taking it seriously because Leslie Nielsen is in it😄
Dude! No joke I didnt realize it was him until recently. I've been watching the movie since I was a kid and just noticed. I wanted to call the main character Shirley the whole time lol.
roger Rodger 😄
So are the psychonauts vids on hold while we get hyped for Alan Wake 2?
PSIKing is being edited now. it's a *beefy* video so it's taking a while.
All of these videos were made 2 months back so they are not interfering with our work on Psiking. Once it is released you'll see why it took longer than the others.
@@GamingUniversityUoG Ah, I see. Looking forward to it!
@@yellowbat79 Awesome, im looking forward to it!
The best part of Forbidden Planet is when Dr. Morbius said "IT'S MORBIN' TIME" and morbed all over those guys.
More seriously, it's a really good movie. Feels a bit dated in a few aspects, but at its core there's a lot of really great ideas and themes, and you can tell there was a lot of passion in the project.
It blew my mind the first time I realized the heroic captain from Forbidden Planet is also the goofy doctor from Airplane and the goofy copy from Naked Gun. That said, it's really a very, very good movie and holds up surprisingly well considering how old it is! Even the special effects don't look too bad when you take into account its age.
@@Riggswolfe The visuals honestly hold up incredibly well. Most sci-fi movies of the time would just put stuff in like an empty room with a typewriter and a TV for a computer. They actually made some very impressive shots and scenes for a lot of the visuals. To be honest, in some ways I find them more believable than a lot of the actor-in-a-cgi-room that we see in movies today.
@@Generallybreak Oh, it holds up quite well. It's honestly surprising and I wouldn't be shocked to find out it had some impact on later sci-fi.
There are some things like the monster obviously being an animation and some of the laser beam effects that are a bit dated but other than that it's great. You're making me want to watch it again!
I now think about it.... What if 13 years lock down in Dark Place split Alan in two again. Something like Mr Scratch.
And his "desperate wish for free" create another Alan. Author without moral feeling's. And he decide write really horror story for his wish come true. And real Alan will try stop his dark half from contless kiling and manipulation's in sequel.
Based upon the return trailer I got the impression there was a feral version of alan on the lose. Not like Scratch who was very deliberate. Just wild and manic
There's somethinf I don't understand. In the end, Alan is a creation of Zane as a way to fix what he did, or is Zane just a part of Alan's story?
Simple answer, we have no clue. It is one of the biggest mysteries.
Personally, I think alan used his character of Zane to write a lore reason for the clicker to be there. After all we only interact with the Bright presence who is wearing Zane's skin.
@@GamingUniversityUoG yeah, you're rigur, but with the Remedyverse confirmed in Control, now the already confusing Wake lore became even more weird lol, can't wait for Alan Wake 2 tho
Its really interesting question.
Yeah, i understand Alan's wish escape from Darkness, but was he right when he manipulate lives ordinary people for happy ending he want?
Its really interesting question.... I can understand when he wrote Departure, because he was manipulated by Barbara. But what about FBC? Im not sure that he create Hiss, but he really manipulate story, which was trigger for they invasion.... So many people died from it.
Mad respect, I love your videos but I gotta disagree with you to an extent. What if the tale is the Russian tale of the baba yaga? Not the Norse tale.
In the tale of the Russian baba yaga, it tells a story of three witches, one young, one old, and the other middle aged that would drag victims to the lair of the witches. Once the middle aged witch brings in a victim the elderly might wear the victims face.
Hes not a hero or a villain, one could argue if the Dark Place chose someone else, the situation could be much worse, but Alan is weak willed at times and quite selfish, so hes a mixed bag but by god there are worse
Frankly 'everyone' has a darker aspect to them that could have been pulled. I mean Hartman basically became corrupted instantly upon entering.
SPOILER for a 70 year old movie
2:00 Really damning criticism of most popular religions there, especially Christianity woth its "everything happens for a reason" BS.
Alan is kind of a selfish prick.