Can YOU tell what's wrong with this? 10 Coils Dead On William's PINBOT Pinball Machine Repair
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ย. 2024
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Great work!! Never imagined all that stuff was hacked up when I bought it. It did run "ok" but when I started looking under the playfield I found too many obvious problems that I only trusted Ron and Joe to address. I did mess up that wire resoldering it wrongly and once it started smoking, I had to tap out for Ron's greater skills!!
We got it going man, I was playing it last night :) And your Centipede, we turned the sound back up :) It saves high scores now too, lol
@@LyonsArcade Awesome!! Looking forward to seeing it!
NO=normally open. NC=normally closed.
Not a dig. I'm ex industrial maintenance.
You do a fantastic job at teaching troubleshooting. Keep it up.
Thank you William, we appreciate you watching buddy
@@LyonsArcade I live in NE Indiana...had a chance to get a Black knight from my employer for $500 in 1990. It was all torn apart. Wish I bought it.
Keep up the great work you and your brother does.
100% what he said. In an unpowered state it would be NC or NO. When it gets power, it changes state.
I just love Williams machines of this era. It was really the sweet spot for me. Great sound and lighting. Smooth, fast play. Loads of features, but still not over the top. I'd play that thing until I was asleep on my feet.
Outstanding detective work on this pinnie. …. I’m glad you were on it Ronnie. So enjoyable to watch you sort all this out. Great skills Ronnie …. no wonder the customer drove half way across the country to get it to you. How are Lee is this ever gonna work again. … can’t wait for the next vid.
Exactly so!
I just found you channel yesterday, pinball was always my favorite arcade game. As my last answer ( yesterday's vid) was a solenoid they take low amperage when working correctly but can spike high amperage when the insulation break down, gets hot, shorts, etc Checking ohms with multimeter, high pot, megger etc. Retired HVAC-R tech mechanical contractor. Great channel Thanks.
Ron and Joe are amazing. You will love it here I promises. Ron is the one speaking and Joe is his brother FYI.
@@Nunya_Bidnez Hey thanks for the info. the videos I have watched have been verry informative pinball has always been my favorite arcade games.
This just like John's Arcade, but more consistent uploads. Subbed! 👌
Hey guys we are in the basement!!!!😆
HAY GUYS
Great video Ronnie, That was great thinking on using the other game to fix that board on Pinbot. Come on 'Williams, Come on. This might be a long series. See you on the next video Dr. Ronnie.
Come on now Williams, why would they do that? You can't do that Williams. Come on now. Come on people. Thanks for watching Frank, we'll see you on the next one!
You must have a little detective in you Ron. Great Video.
I've read every Sherlock Holmes story he says if you're good enough you can tell what happened from 1 clue, lol
Slowly but surely.
PIN-BOT will live again.
Wow! That’s a lot of brain power Ron! Nice job!
From an engineering perspective, preheating the filament increases the resistance of a cold filament to prevent inrush damage to the lamp driver that might not have the capability. It might have a side effect of decreasing turn-on time but that would not have been the original design intent.
Interesting makes sense thanks for sharing the info!
I used to be on stage crew in high school and we would a lot of times have a low-level what is referred earliest by the people onstage group to as a predim.
Where we would have the whites at roughly 10% or less at least most of them and sometimes all of them just had several advantages including response time of Deming and increase lamp life in some cases and many things contributed to multiple reasons to do this it's a bit too complicated.
But it did have several advantages and made things work better I don't fully understand it myself.
And supposedly even lamp life was extended and I do know we would bring the Denver's up for a a short time before the show started preheat lamp filaments as well at times at least.
I believe some of this also has to do with the dimming and response as well but as I said it don't know the full extent of this.
If anyone has worked in theater or other stage lighting amputation this perhaps a comment on this!
From PinWiki: To make the flashlamps "agile" (i.e. turn on rapidly) and to extend the life of the flashlamps, a "warming" circuit was employed which connects two series flashlamps to coil power via a 330 ohm 1 watt resistor. This causes the lamp filament to turn on very slightly, and to "warm up", ready for the power to find ground via a 1 ohm (5 ohm in System 11) resistor.
When I ran wire harnesses for industrial machines the Electrical Engineer had us run 10% spare wires, just in case! Minimum 2 wires up to 20, then 3 etc... Great Video!
And don't call me Shirley! ;
Good old Pinbot. Just played one of these a few weeks ago at Electric Avenue in Manchester, NH. Theirs was playing great but I wasn't playing great. Couldn't make that left ramp shot to save my life.
Left you a review of your store Ronnie..hope you like it ✌😁
I was gonna say do this, do that but I knew you'd figure it out and its so enjoyable watching you do that. If I owned a pinball machine and I needed it worked on, I'd send it to you.
Great channel 😎thanks for all the information! I’m learning a lot!
Thanks for watching Kev!
@@LyonsArcade your welcome! great stuff here!
Great diagnosis professor Ron. Looking forward to more.
Have a look at Lucas/BMC wire colour charts to help out. If you see a solid colour wire (other than black) it's a feed wire without a switch or relay in line with it. If you see a colour with a band every inch or so, it's a SWITCHED feed wire. If the main colour of a switched wire is the same as another unswitched wire, then the two wires are connected by a SWITCH or a RELAY.
So for example: BLACK is usually circuit ground (0V). Red is usually a voltage feed wire (5V, possibly), Orange will be a higher voltage (12? 24?). A Red wire with a band every inch means that between the Red supply wire and the Red/Banded there is a switch.
I am simplifying a lot - but solid colour is supply, banded is switched supply, black is usually GND/0V.
GREAT troubleshooting! AND great video OF the troubleshooting. Thanks for your hard work.
Loved playing this pinball!!!1
Another awesome video. Love the diagnosis.
Thank you Level we appreciate you watching with us :)
In case you don't know: those diodes on the coils are there to protect the system from what's called backwards electromechanical force, also known as "Back EMF".
Whenever you have a coil or relay or whatever, connected to a DC supply, there's a current running through there that gets converted to a magnetic field by the coil. But when you turn the power supply off (e.g. you let go of the flipper button), the opposite happens: the magnetic field that's still around the coil generates current while the field collapses. That current has to go somewhere and if you don't let it go anywhere, it generates spikes of high voltage that make your electronics go poof. So wherever you see a coil in a DC circuit, you should also see a diode that's connected in parallel with the coil, in revere direction of the normal port supply polarity. So normally a diode is connected with the cathode (the side with the band) to the negative side and the other side to the positive, but back-EMF diodes are connected with the cathode to positive and the anode to negative. When there's power flowing to the coil, the diode blocks the current because it's in reverse, so all current goes through the coil. When the power is turned off, the coil generates a reverse current through the diode because back-EMF current flows backwards because the magnetic field generates current instead of current generating the field.
Great video as usual Ron! Thanks for posting.
On the flipper end stops being bent,perhaps you could have used the two blocks of wood and colt repair method,LOL🤣
bolt not colt
That's patented by that other customer, we can't rip off his mod idea! Thank you for watching justlookin20101!
You just broke your old "people" record and I freakin' love it, brother!
Best drinking game on TH-cam!
Thanks, Ron. Don't get electrokilled.
Interesting 👍
Another informative video there Ron.
Hopefully I'll be able to work on my own Pinball machine one day.
Ron, you have a pretty good, in fact damn good, intuitive/empirical approach to trouble shooting circuitry. A fair number of times you almost make me bite my tongue off, TBH. However, I'm not being critical here. I think that give a little training in basic circuit concepts and digital circuitry, you would be (you already are) an extremely competent electronics repair tech. Above and Beyond.
Bloody good for you mate - you take a little longer to get there, but dammit - you GET THERE.
Excellent stuff, keep it up.
Nice impressive bloodhounding!!! I hate working on someone else's monkey rigging! Love your vids!!!
I always use an AJ - adjustable spanner instead of pliers to bend stuff.. easy to make tight and secure - with good leverage.. my top tip! Greets to all the 'come on people' from UK.
I have a Pin*Bot next to me in my lounge.. a fave game - most others are EMs.. obvs more than just the one machine!
PS - very pleased I spotted the wrong tilt wire connection.. partly down to you!
I always found a blown fuse somewhere in the flipper circuit has a shorted bridge rectifier amongst other problems. Bad connections or burnt in the back lighted board…. And I also found wrong solenoid ohms did not match the original solenoids
Did you use 2 blocks of wood and some all thread to fix that flipper stop?😀
No, that's a patented mod and I'm not qualified to install it :)
Great diagnostic skills. That jumper would have taken me days to figure out. Who got in there and screwed that stuff up and then decided it was good? So they made Pinbot. Bride of Pinbot and then JacK*Bot. Can't wait for the next repair video.
NC on any relay or switch is standard for "normally closed' meaning it is on and NO "normally open" is in a switched state as off.
@ 30:17 - NC on a switch or relay is usually "Normally Closed". On a schematic, it could mean "No Connection" or "Not Connected".
On a relay, NO means "Normally Open".
Love this channel!! Daily pin problem solving. Who needs Sherlock Holmes?
Been a while since we had a good come on now people! Love it! Shouldn’t the diodes be away from the bumper end of the flipper? Or is that an old wives tale?
But what about that fuse we saw blow at the end of the last video?
@ 36:40 YAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!! (bugles sound, fireworks launch, rocket's red glare, etc.)!!! @ 37:25 - More YAAAAYYYYYY!!!!
This appears to be a really clean Pinbot and a masterclass at why you check a game over / make sure it plays complete games before purchasing - under that playfield it's a dumpster fire.
i have NES game with the same name, also the music and sounds remind of games from the sega genesis
It does kind of have that Sega sound to it, they always made great music in their games...
It looks like one of those sand resistors has already been replaced and another thought is sets if that is true and you did have one falls off how about the other two should they be replaced as preventive maintenance
The reason they fall off is the solder gets messed up the resistor itself is usually fine, so you can just reflow the solder and it's as good as putting a new one on there.... Some of them are worse than others too, I don't know why, might depend on which flashers get used more? Not sure.
Guns and Roses is my favorite sounding Pinball game next to Pinbot
Did it great
@ 33:07 Dang! You are SO CLOSE!!! I wish I could draw you a diagram....
“Coil” SHOULD be the control voltage for the relay. NC, normally closed, is indeed stuff that is connected when the relay is not energized. Usually there would be an NO or normally open as well.
I would think at least in my opinion if I had designed this I would have put in a relay that would be in a socket it'd be a lot easier to service if a relay went bad order contacts went bad either one with as often as these relays would be activated reliability and serviceability would be an issue I believe.
You're make better sense to have it in a socket like other relays in the systems in some cases.
It'd be easier to replace a really a socket that would be the disorder entire board and replace it or rebuild the border for new relay if you're so inclined.
Theoretically one could use one of those screwdriver relay sockets if one could find a proper relay what the proper ratings for coil and contacts.
It's possible one could use a dropping resistor as well if the voltage is bit High.
Of course this resistor value would mean to be calculated on an individual basis.
I once built a device that was meant to replace a 3-wire thermostat with a 2Wire thermostat.
It was more readily available!
It was in a hydronic heating system.
Eventually wound up using it as one of these.
Wound up putting the relay in a socket for this very reason!
Reliability in serviceability.
I did save design and had a few extra boards handy in case never needed to do it again for anyone else turns out I've made a few these over the years.
Also was handy for Universal relay board which essentially does what was designed for.
Provision for almost anything you would need on the board even.
Including options for fuses even jumpers for powering from input power or separate circuit all screw terminals.
And could be used for either an AC or DC relay with option for Freewheel diode/protection diode on DC applications.
And even room for enough to bridge rectifier.
And much more.
A true Universal relay board.
Also made versions four different numbers are relays in different configurations.
At that time I can just get a real a border from someplace like eBay or Amazon this was many years ago.
Other than the board itself all off-the-shelf parts.
Also for some of these applications I would use a universal power board I called it which could take either 14 volts AC or DC and to provide whatever voltage would be needed.
Often time when you're redoing something a different way you need a power supply and often things are ribs and ran off 24 V from One Source or another.
I also built a couple damper controllers meant to replace Troublesome devices that often failed that I found that were badly designed at least in terms of serviceability.
And her place things that were essentially obsolete but seems like eons ago.
And also allowing newer equipment to work with older equipment in a similar manner.
This is all the way around and essentially also building interface relay boards to interconnect systems that were never designed to work together.
For example tying in automation system into 50's and 60's low voltage switching.
And providing momentary contact closure emulating a low voltage switch.
And even producing contact closure Red Leaf alternating normally open normally closed interface to other systems the other way around.
Even built a device that would turn on select circuits at at dusk and on it Dawn in the same way and even with a switch for override.
Even had built timers to work with this system as well the system was never really meant for automation just manual switching did figure out how to use this do you drive the motor Masters as well.
Everything was mostly powered from the existing 24 V.
I even found one place that had multiple voltage systems of different Generations or different brands that work differently Hermes you build interfaces to allow one type of things into work with others and vice versa
Yep Williams millionaire was a pretty fun game.
And honestly better than gottlieb Monte Carlo. Even though I do like that one as well.
At 30 minutes dosen't the NC mean normally closed? Relays un my feild means normally closed like a 2 pole realy say double pole double throw with a normally opened and normally closed poles? DPDT N/O N/C 24 v example. I'm asking because I'm a techno sponge not a trouble maker,. I Love Your channel.
I've seen it mean not connected in some schematics! can be confusing, huh?
@@NewTestamentDoc I'm shure it does, I'm not versed in pinball schematics + a little ignorance, I watched the 4 thousand B.C. pinball vid and there's alot I do not know.
@@okiedean1112 Still great to have you here, though!
NC is North Carolina
Nice soldering station! (Soddering)
What is the AC Solenoid Select Circuit doing? because I don't know What circuit is "switching the different banks" of Flasher circuits like 2C, 3C, 4C, 5C? The Flasher circuit has 5 ohm @ 10 Watts and 300ohm at 7 Watts but the Solenoid SOL B+ is what is triggering controlling the flashing circuit? I'm guessing they make two types of flippers coils, #1 for "winding flipper coils in series" and #2 for "winding flipper coils in parallel"? I thought all flipper coils were wired in series
Yes they make two types of coils, this machine somebody has swapped one to the newer style.
The way the A/C solenoid select circuit works is, there is an A solenoid, and a C solenoid (it doesn't work on AC voltage they just named it weird).... so they're both wired to the same transistor. If the relay is on, then the C coil comes on... if the relay is off, then the A coil comes on. The reason they did that was so they could have twice as many coils hooked up.
@@LyonsArcade Thanks I didn't know they make two types of coils because most older pinball games I think only used the flipper coils wired in series.
In your opinion which game has the best sound and audio features
you should have move black wires back on ground then everything will be back working aging
you did one good move other red wires back on other red wires
@ 32:10 - C'Mon, people! I mean, you nearly got it! C'mon, I... Just... Ron, dude... people... C'mon now....
Isn't NC, normally closed or no connection
Normally closed (or Normally connected)
If you need 680F on your soldering pencil then it's underpowered for the job.
But we didn't get to see you play with a light bulb. And twist it a few times.
Just the back and the bottom of the playfield box.
The flipper frame was bent in an attempt to change the length of stroke. I doubt it made any difference.
Maybe the plunger arm hitting the backplate bent it over time?_
gee, don't them filter capacitors have little markings on 'em that say which way they go in? ..just a burned out fuse or two..
"And don't call me Shirley"
I'm sure most of the problems in that machine were caused by someone who didn't know what they were doing trying to troubleshoot whatever the original problem was! You think that's bad, I've had to deal with radios from the 1930s that have been worked on by generations of hacks, many of whom have been dead for some time now. (It's OK, I still give their ghosts the old "Come on, people!" when I find particularly annoying hacks.)
I try to take it in stride, I don't know what I'm doing sometimes either at least they were trying to keep it going. We're just getting it a little bit better :) Thanks for watching Lurker Smith!
@@LyonsArcade Agreed. Sometimes, though, it just leads you down a long, winding path of random, weird stuff going on, and you just have to find each issue one at a time and not get bogged down trying to figure out how all of that weird stuff seemingly went wrong at the same time. I've seen the same in the computer field when a customer has tried to work on their own server. "What, did you let your cat dig the CPU out of that socket? 'Come on, people!'" My main troubleshooting has been board replacement (my day job in computers), and component level tube stuff (my hobby). It's really interesting watching you go through the digital stuff and transistor logic.
MR PinBot. Noice. I use the end of a ruler (scale) to make small things perfect 90 degrees. Works real nice. I say scale as this is what I was taught they are actually called in Aviation school. Like wire cutters (Dykes) they have a name.
I can tell you exactly what's wrong with it. *It's broke!*
Resistors in an unused circuit? Spare parts!
Absolutely :) On the Bally boards some of the solenoid drivers and light drivers aren't used in all of the games, there's always tons of extra parts on the board if you took the time to look through the schematics and see what parts weren't used in that game, lol
Ca 31:99 NC means NOT connected.
ummmmm. sure doesn't. NO - Normally Open, NC- Normally Closed
What boggles my mind the most is that someone engineered this whole, incredibly complicated thing, just so we can have fun playing a game (quite often while we are intoxicated).
If you mess with the really old ones it's cool because you see how things progressed. I have one in my house that doesn't even have coils or anything, it's just a mechanical machine, you start the game and shoot the balls, there are a few switches that turn on a few lights. So you can see why they would design that, it's easier to make... and then, somebody decides to put a coil in one. Then another coil. Then coils you can control. Then coils that turn stuff on and off.... etc. and it turns into what we see here....
@@LyonsArcade I guess just builders and designers challenging themselves time and time again. I'm up here in Vancouver, Canada and really do miss the yearly pinball expo we used to have. It stopped about 3 years ago. Hundreds of machines and tons of folks from all over N. America came for it. 4 days of pinball 12 hrs each day. It was a blast while it lasted!
Yodelayheehoo
I don't know who these "people" you're arguing with, but I'm pretty sure everyone here would just bend it back already.
hahaha you are greatly mistaken :) Lots and lots of people would want ALL NEW. I'm with you though let's bend it!
But if you had to choose between pinbot bride of pin bot or jack bot.
Me I never had a chance to play
Jack bot.
Definitely PIN BOT first then BRIDE OF PIN BOT.
Good work. Why oh why do people Fork with sh#t!
Something breaks so they try to fix it... and that doesn't fix it... so they figure it was something else, and fix something else... which doesn't fix it.... so it goes on and on. It's pretty common on these things, if you are used to them they make sense and you can tell what's wrong but to a lot of people they've never worked on things like this, and it doesn't immediately make sense. For quite awhile it was hard to find anybody that was willing to work on them, but now everybody's back into them so it's easier to get the solid state ones worked on. Nobody works on the EM's though, i've got them all to myself :)
35 volts won't kill you, but when you find it, you will feel it.
It's not the voltage that kills you, it's the amperage. 1,000 volts is no more deadly than 100 volts, but tiny changes in amperage can mean the difference between life and death. (Although high voltages are still unpleasant, LOL.)
Ca 31:00 NC means NOT connected.
if you're gonna correct me, make sure you're right.... because now you're wrong about me being wrong on top of being wrong.
@@LyonsArcade hahaaa
@@LyonsArcade I wrote this before you found that other schematic. And the text NC is about the relay NC:= normally closed; but in my 40 years as an electronic engineer I'm used to NC in a connector means not connected. Thanks for some good videos
@@christiantreldal1585 Yeah but what does "NO" mean? It would have to mean "Not Open" and that doesn't make much sense does it.... There's a "NC" and a "NO"
Thanks for watching Christian, we'll see you on the next video :)
@@LyonsArcade markings at a relay refer to the state of the contacts NC = Normally closed, NO = Normally open. Looking forward to the next show. Greetings from Copenhagen.
co co co com com come on ppl, one very annoying thing to hear over and over, but still it is good to watch you debug, be nice if you could explain electronics better instead of fumbling through it.
Skozzy go be a loser somewhere else, thanks