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Hey ModernVintageGamer! Any chance we get a video on why some emulators require proprietary firmware/bios and why those could not be recreated as a free/open source implementation? Thanks and best regards!
because intellectual property- you can't legally re-implement somebody's IP without their permission. The unique design/mechanics of a software system is IP, and developing unique IP is more precious than gold, because that is both patent and trademark-able, rather than one or the other. It's why game developers weren't allowed to use custom firmware on the N64 RDP without their blessing, which happened later on (and for) games like Factor5's Indy & the Infernal Machine; but few used that because it was too much of a hassle I suspect.
@@softwarelivre2389they can be recreated and in some cases are provided as an alternate option, it's just that the compatibility with open source console firmware is worse compared to original
Lead programmer on THPS2 GBA here. Glad to see it in the mix! Fun fact, even though we rebuilt all the levels for the isometric projection, we ported most of the playstation code over to GBA, which is why it plays so much like the original title.
it's a shame Nintendo basically gets credit for your work. thanks man. you'll forever be unknown in my mind, but i want you to be aware that i truly appreciate and expect you to be rewarded for your efforts. nice game port though... can't you get hired to port games from PC to PC for ubisoft, they seem to have some issues with that.
It’s great to see seriously accomplished programmers casually drop in to Internet conversations about their works. Thank you for peeling back the veil a bit on something that must have been a great deal of work.
That is a very interesting fact! Thanks for sharing it. I have no connection to skating or sports games, but I still loved the Tony Hawk's series on GBA. It was such a great showcase of what the handheld can do.
I worked as internal QA at Westwood Studios during the production of Nox. Really happy to see it mentioned in your video! I very much agree that it’s an overlooked classic. I had an incredible time testing all of the levels and game mechanics. Glad to know that I’m not the only one who enjoyed Nox!
I was the art studio director in the Medici Studio in 1432 in Florence when we developed isometric perspective. It's good seeing our work acknowledged after all these years.
My two sisters loved playing AOE but only the initial tutorial levels. They hated the whole idea of fighting and killing each other but adored building up a town through cutting down trees and hunter-gathering food for the community. They'd play for hours deforesting the tutorial maps while deliberately ignoring the objective. Caesar3 was perfect for them, it gave you the choice between a peaceful or military victory condition. My big sister in particular loved growing her city, first time she tried military she was so offended by their violent actions she almost stopped playing altogether. After playing the military objectives I realised the game is orders of magnitudes easier. Trying to placate pompous Romans demanding olives and high quality pottery was a nightmare compared with brutal violent oppression, in hindsight that's quite historically realistic.
A great deal of games in the 90s were done in assembly. With Chris it's more that he didn't move onto C++ when a lot of others in the industry did, but it was common practice in the early 90s. Also he built the engine up in Transport Tycoon first, so it wasn't like he did Rollercoaster entirely by scratch.
Sure display code needs to run many times per second and assembly makes sense for that but game logic can be in C or other higher level language and this wouldn’t matter. Just wasted effort unless you’re coding for some 8 or 16 bit chips
MVG you play a relatively unique role in the retro/game historian community as far as I can tell. I appreciate that you bring attention to genres and styles that others don't and you regularly seem to highlight interesting and worthy gaming achievements that had an impact on your gaming history. I watch a lot of retro gaming youtube and this is the first video I've personally seen highlighting the origins of the isometric art style and game design. Keep up the great work!
Loved your description of the Commandos and Desperados games as "oil paintings that come to life", so true! 😄 That's exactly why that specific style of isometric graphics will never really go "out of date".
The difference is there's no scaling with depth (vanishing point projection). Isometric projection has been used in drafting for centuries. Not only does it create a 3D-looking view, but because none of the lines are scaled with depth, you can measure lines to get exact measurements. Making it nearly as useful as an orthographic projection (object drawn as front, top, and side views). This is the same trait which made it useful for creating faux-3D games (no scaling with depth = no 3D calculations required). A better way to put it is an isometric projection is a 2D drawing which looks 3D-ish. Not an accurate projection of a 3D object onto a 2D plane.
The Super Mario RPG remake is actually a great example of how fixed isometric perspectives still have a place in the world even with fully 3D assets. It’s one of the best looking games on the switch because the devs were able to really tune the textures and models to look just right from the fixed angles. Not unlike with 2D art
It looks and plays nicely, but I am still trying to get around how there are frame rate drips in some of the busier scenes. It's an update of a newly 30 year old SNES game, for chirssakes!
isometric pre-rendered 2D spaces are so immersive, captivating and beautiful. Baldurs Gate 1, Fallout 2, C&C Tiberian Sun, Sim City 3 & 4, Diablo 2, Stronghold 1 & Crusader, Robin Hood: The Legend of Sherwood, Age of Empires 1& 2, Prince of Quin, Dragon Throne: Battle of Red Cliffs, Knights of Honor, Caesar and Pharaoh, Celtic Kings : Rage of War, Planescape Torment, Heroes 3, Dungeon Keeper, Kohan Immortal Sovereigns, Warlords Battlecry 3 I havnt played most of them in over 10-15 years, and i can still perfectly visualize the levels, atmospheres, units and main plot events. isometric pre-rendered 2D spaces are S+ tier.
Not to be left out: RTS games. Dune II was sorta isometric, but the first Warcraft and C&C games are what really pushed it. It's the standard look for the genre ever since.
I had a feeling this would be a near-Mandela effect but: WarCraft 1 was NOT an isometric game. Blew mind a few years ago when I happened across a playthrough.
Warcraft is not very isometric, but Starcraft 1 definitely is, and 25 years later it's still one of the popular RTS It is one of the first games to have automatically stitched isometric terrain, and that was done is a rather quirky way, allowing for non-isometric terrain with minimal hacking
1994's X-COM: UFO Defense truly was a terrifyingly great game and a wonderful example of how blending simple isometric techniques with fog of war and fear of the unknown (along with some real spine chilling music) created a game that punched well above its weight and started a legacy. Glad you mentioned it and gave it a little screen time towards the end. Loved the video MVG, keep it up!
Still one of my all time favorite games. The strategy in the combat, leveling up individual members of your squad, base management, resource acquisition, researching, etc. was such a perfect combo. Add in the eerie atmosphere and midi sounds, it's an all time classic.
I'll never forget the horror of terror sites and having your squad turned into more enemies. They were close combat only enemies (crysalids?) , so having the last squad members hiding in the transport where the enemies wouldn't go and hoping your ammo was enough to kill them is a clear memory from many many years ago.... (yes, I learned to play better once older, but I think the game was more fun when I had no idea what I was doing) Was called X-COM: Enemy Unknown in my market.
If I recall correctly, when I read the GOG reviews for it, it had a major problem or two. Can't remember what it was though. Or it might have been an old GameSpot review. EDIT: Looks like game was kinda short on content and the inventory can be annoying. So some GOG reviews say here anyway.
@@arnox4554 It's a bit shorter than, say, Diablo, but makes up with it through quality over quantity. It's a lot more dense than most games in the genre.
@@arnox4554 Peak NOX was the multiplayer era when the servers/westwood were live. You would either quest on PVE on other people's servers, or do non-quest-gear PVP on PVP servers. It's so weird, I've yet to see other hack and slash game do PVP like NOX did, despite how long the new diablos and path of exile games have been out.
@@alejorag I do have a Twitter with a same nickname as here just with "a" instead of "4". I unfortunately haven't started posting about this project yet since it's still in the stage of ugly programmer's art.
The Immortal was THE game that made me like that "style" of videogames, to the point that I don't care about the actual style of the game itself, but only the camera angles. Excelent video, dude! Cheers from Brazil!
Jagged Alliance 2 is art to to me. i spent many many 100's of hours playing that in the early 2000's and still boot it up once a year or so for a full playthrough.
Viva Arulco! JA2 has of course been community modded to improve just about every aspect of the original game, building on but not diminishing the awesome original game.
When I think isometric, there are 3 games that comes to mind right away: desert/jungle strike on Genesis, I loved those games despite sucking at it and always running out of fuel as a kid.. And transport tycoon deluxe.. That game was/is awesome, I love everything about it. Special mention to little big aventure.. I bought that game as a kid, and it was HARD as hell and very special for me.. I never finished it but I remember seeing the planet half burnt and all, it was a shocker for me back in the days.. Good memories!
I also remember Little Big Adventure very fondly, especially for the very creative worldbuilding. Reviews of the time also mentioned the difficulty, but I have beaten it without much issues. It was probably caused by the tank controls, which made it so much harder for many people.
Yes. Want to know what made my childhood memorable? Jello pops spinning and shooting through the hallways and honing in on teachers skipping class. They did that sometimes when the parakeets (specifically the blue ones) hid toothpaste in very specific places in the ceiling. It was a plot to pop the volleyballs to bring down the latest dynasty (the pillows, not the brand).
Isometric has always been my favourite viewpoint! Desert and Jungle Strike, SC2000, Crusader, No Regret and No Remorse, X-Com, CnC, Bedlam, all fantastic isometric little worlds I loved exploring and blowing up :) Currently replaying Diablo 2 :) Not even watched the vid yet but full power MVG ✌️
I loved the Crusader games so much! Literally the first thing I did with internet access was (slowly) download some pictures of that. The Ascent is a decent modern version of this
I think a significant development in isometric games, was in the RTS genre, like Dune, Command & Conquor, Age of Empires and Red Alert. Of newer variants, games like Path of Exile stands out too.
There I was, finger on the reply trigger, about to make my first post!!?? Until I watched the final seconds… :) That character sprite, the potion sound effect, plus the outro music of ShadowRun. Yes! Cheers @MVG! For everything hey, you still take me back and it’s awesome.
@@acomingextinction Probably because of their difficult controls. Amazing games, but there's a bit of a learning curve, and you know how lazy modern gamers can be...
@@acomingextinctionI too was hoping it was going to get more coverage. The controls were indeed difficult but provided a lot of freedom when moving and during combat
@@acomingextinctionSame here I always feel like I was the only one that played them. They are rarely discussed but were peak gameplay a design there for awhile.
Little big adventure from 1994 gets slept on a lot it’s basically a Zelda clone with lots of charm and personality, it’s getting a remake this year for the 30th anniversary, anyone who’s a fan of isometric games should check it out it was way ahead of its time!
I remember being blown away when I saw what I think is Landstalker, on Sega Channel. I most of found it toward the end of its time on SC, because it disappeared a few days later. It was such a pretty game. The isomorphic view gave it a feeling of depth and mystery.
Hmm… it was available in the UK on cartridge. I never realised it wasn’t released in some territories. This was almost my #1 isometric game… but I’m torn between Landstalker, Populous and Syndicate Wars 🤔
Most of my all time favorite childhood games were isometric- Crusader: No Remorse, Simcity 2000, Warcraft 2, Starcraft and Diablo. Crusader: No Remorse I think is a super underrated forgotten gem.
I feel like that is because everyone knows about and is familiar with isometric RTSs as they are still very popular to this day. Populous was a great example for how ground breaking it was at the time, It wasn't just isometric but had proper 3d terrain manipulation. Blew my mind as a kid in ~1990.
Rollercoaster Tycoon is an absolute masterpiece. As a theme park and rollercoaster enthusiast to begin with, it really tapped into my imagination in a way no other video game ever had. Before the game came along I designed my own rollercoasters on paper and built elaborate models of my fantasy rollercoasters out of various materials. When the game came out during my sophomore year of high school, it was like a fantasy came true. It seriously became my happy place during a very difficult time in my life. I played endless hours of RCT, RCT2 and RCT3. Still do. I have RCT 1 and 2 on my phone and RCT3 on the Switch.
If you haven't checked it out already, I'd encourage you to check out the open source implement of the game - OpenRCT2. It fixes bugs, adds quality of life features, several new coaster types, co op multiplayer, and great new creative tools. The community around it is pretty strong too, with TH-cam channels like Deurklink, Marcel Vos, and Andrelzyck Amusement Academy.
you can't draw lines end to end in paint anymore. god only knows why they did this, but when you draw a line, it actually places a line object with clickable dog ears, which an ear at each end of the line. so if you try to quickly draw another line (like we all did for 20 years prior) then it will instead grab the dog ear of the line you just placed and you will be dragging it around. you just have to learn to deselect the line by clicking away. you will never be able to quickly draw end to end. if you hit escape, it will just delete the line you drew. if you hit tab, it will move the mouse to the center of the line or the other end.
Knight Lore blew my mind back in 84. Had its limitations and slowdown on busy screens could be a bit painful, but showed us what could be achieved with the Spectrum.
Me too, although once Head Over Heels came out, Knight Lore immediately felt outdated. (Arguably when Batman came out, but HOH sealed it.) Knight Lore definitely started a trend, but I don't remember the games that followed ever being referred to as "Knight Lore clones". They were always "isometric games", perhaps because there was quite a variety, and many were better games than Knight Lore. eg: The Great Escape, Highway Encounter, Hydrofool, Detective, Get Dexter, Fairlight, Inside Outing; all pretty different.
@@AnthonyFlack agreed, gameplay mechanics were improved by Batman, and Head over Heels was a quantum leap forward (and one of the few games of that type I actually completed several times). Knight Lore itself wasn’t a brilliant game as such, but the visuals and general mechanics were pretty revolutionary.
I loved Populous as a young kid, it taught me to spell the word leading to my proudest moment. My older sister had a vocabulary test including the word "populous", for the first time I knew how to spell a word she didn't!
Watching this video made me realise - almost all of my childhood favourites that I still play today are isometric. Rollercoaster Tycoon 2, Sim City 2000, Diablo 2, Fallout, X-Com & Terror From the Deep - all games I've played on a regular basis since they first released. It really is a timeless aesthetic.
I was an artist on Terror From the Deep (I did most of the sprites) so it's always nice to know it's still held in high regard by those that played it.
@@repletereplete8002 No joke - first game I ever played on a PC. Played it to death, too - though mostly the death of my 'nauts, I had no idea what a difficulty curve even was at that point, nevermind a difficulty cliff. Thankyou for your beautiful artwork - but if you still have any contact with whoever was writing the AI, please tell them in no uncertain terms to suck a fart.
@@Jeffmetal42 I'm not about to tell Tim Cain what he knows about Fallout, but I'll happily get adenoidal with him about projection types - 'Cavalier' is when the 'front' is perpendicular to the view angle, and axes are of uniform length. Trimetric matches Fallout's projection - which makes sense, given it's played on a hex-grid.
My first experience with an isometric game was Roller Coaster Tycoon 2. That game was my entire childhood for so long, and I’ve been looking for similar tycoon games in that isometric style. Something about it is so much more appealing to me than the full 3D tycoon games.
You should try OpenRCT2 if you haven't, its the modern implementation of RCT2 with many improvement. And also check out OpenTTD, it's an open-source remake of Transport Tycoon, a game that also developed by Chris Sawyer, amazing
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I'm a huge fan of Relentless: Twinsen's Adventures (known as Little Big Adventure in the rest of the world). Isometric view, proper 3D, and was a fun game to play. It's getting a remaster some time soon which should make it more enjoyable, as the controls were very clunky at times.
From the director and selected team of the earlier Alone in the dark iirc - the controls were quite similar in that they were very clunky, as you said already.. man it was pretty tough aswell. Great music too 👍 (edit for typo).
It's telling that Roller Coaster Tycoon holds up enough today that it still has an active community, built mostly around OpenRCT2 - and with custom content made for the game, it's still being made in the original style.
The beauty of isometric games Quick correction - the pop up text during the segment on Nox says it was made by “Westward Studios,” not “Westwood Studios,” which is the correct studio.
Rollercoaster Tycoon 2 was my childhood. So many good memories mucking about and creating parks with friends. I think it's style is what made me fall in love with isometric games. Thanks for making this video!
Just seeing the title I know that commandos will be in it. Last year I met a guy in Madrid that worked at Pyro at that time, and it was a blast for both of us speaking about these games and the development stories 👏
I played that game so much I challenged myself in later levels to raise my entire civilisation to the max build height only to spam flood over and over until only the last block remained. It didn't matter if the enemy lived atop a volcano, they all went the way of Atlantis. The later CPU ai rulesets cheated where if a person was drowning it would immediately raise a block to save them, but they had nowhere to build and would die of exposure or of me flooding once again.
Strictly speaking, an isometric perspective refers to a graphical projection where all axes of space are equally foreshortened with a common angle of 120° between them. However, not all video games labeled as having an isometric perspective actually use said perspective. Other parallel projections are also used with a dimetric perspective being the most common (much more so than true isometry) but other projections can be found occasionally as well. Thus, it would be more accurate to call these parallel projection games.
Completely agree. Many games shown in the video don't use the 120° angle between the three axes. They still look good, but technically not isometric. Also, most pixel-art-based isometric games actually use an approximation. The slanted axes advance two pixels horizontally for each vertical pixel. It's very close to isometric, but not really iso-metric when you measure it. (It's 126.87° and 116.57°.) That was a deliberate choice, as it simplifies the graphics and it still looks good and sharp.
This bugged me as well, along with the mixing up of "hand drawn" and "pre-rendered" sprites and not even mentioning but showing realtime 3d characters on 2d backgrounds.
it's an annoyingly common misconception! i recently saw a video about beating minecraft as an "isometric" game by using a mod that enforced an orthographic perspective. the mod had free camera movement! #pedantRights
As he mentions in the video too, a lot of newer games people call isometric are also just full 3D, even with perspective instead of orthogonal. Just using a camera angle people tend to associate with Isometric.
Final Fantasy Tactics was one I immediately thought of with just the title of the video. I know it wasn’t particularly early in the world of isometric 3D games, but it has been one of my favs and I’ve gone back and played it time and time again (Mario RPG also was one I liked a lot too), so glad it made an appearance here!
Arcanum. Hell of a game, basically Fallout 2 with a steampunk fantasy setting. Who wouldn't want to have a fantasy RPG set in 1886 where you can machine gun dwarves en masse or break a train with your mere magical presence? Or perhaps convince the end boss to end himself for you? Man, I loved that game and the setting. It's so ripe for a rebuild and bugfix.
This. I was hoping that he would mention it. The setting is so unique, and it’s disappointing that besides the more hardcore rpg fans not many seem to know about it. Truly a great game that still deserves a lot more recognition.
My best friend at the time and I loved the game, the setting was so unique. Sadly the game was not translated and my level of English was not great back then and I could not progress far, I should play it again...
For me then as a child and now, Head over Heels is still THE game I love above all others. It still plays as well as it did when it came out. Back then on my CPC6128 with the good GT65 green monitor and today with my C64C :)
As a young boy I often found isometric games less scary to play. There is a certain level of overview, you see thing coming and things are generally slower than for instance a game like Doom which a lot of classmates liked but was a bit too much for young me. Also, as mentioned, the graphics being pretty and somewhat predictable (because of the tiling) helped greatly in finding comfort in the world, even if the topic was still somewhat dark. A great example of an isometric game is Little Big Adventure / Twinsen's Adventure. They combined it with a rather cute world - which still held a story about dictatorship by the way. Awesome game, it's successor LBA 2 / Twinsen's Odyssey indeed uses a 3D engine but still from an isometric perspective mostly.
@@Vermilicious It was extremely hard in real-time mode. But I'm telling you, toggling it to be turn-based way WAY more manageable. Also, molotov cocktails were super easy to make and were beyond OP in turn-based mode. Did lots of damage and knocked almost everything back so if you had a good supply it was a cake walk. Just sayin.
@@Vermilicious Unfortunately it's very unbalanced, especially for a technologist. There are a few community patches attempting to rebalance it, such as multiverse edition, or try creating more combat-optimized character. The game is actually quite easy, it's difficulty is outweighed by it's cheesiness. If you miss alot, stand in the light or buy a lantern - oftentimes your character cannot see. If you are too slow with a sword buy a rapier at creation shop or IIRC in Tarant. Learn Molotov as tech and Harm as mage - both are cheap and OP and helped me out of many sticky situations. If you need XP - train on infinite zombies in Ashbury graveyard. BTW get the dog there also. If you struggle with money steal Ritzee's key while he's asleap (junk shop in shrouded hills). it may take a couple of reloads with 1 level of pickpocket or use a fate point (worth it): ~1k coins per day - click his chest before speaking with him, sleep far outside of a shop to refresh it If you lack muscle, hire half-orge in shrouded hills inn. He is capable of completing most of early game combat for you if you give him a melee weapon, and loot armor from half-orges blocking the bridge. There is absolutely no shame in relying on followers for skills you don't have - it is fully intended and in theme for i.e. an intellectual to hire bodyguards in that world.
There is also a new game coming out in a few months called Commandos: Origins, it's being made by a lot of members of the original studio (Pyro) so it's technically going to be Commandos 4. Commandos 2 and 3 both got HD remasters around 2021.
Many thanks for this isometric portfolio! I'm a rookie solo developer working on my dream game project. Early on I decided on an isometric perspective because as you said it looks superb, creating a faux 3D whilst allowing beautiful crisp 2D pixel art! Maybe I'm biased because I grew up in the golden age of isometric games (arcanum, theme hospital, command & conquer, desperados to name a few) but I think the isometric style is severely underrated in the modern era. Thanks again!
I am really into Isometric art, but one aspect fascinated me the most: Being able to rotate the viewport. As MVG said in the video, some games allowed for this, but up until now I haven't found good resources on how this works or how to make it myself. I am very grateful for any hints that can help me with my endeavour :) Cheers
Wow, you've made me register something i've never even thought of.. a TON of my Fav games are/were isometric!! Hades, Diablo , Syndicate, Theme Park, Sims, Sim City, Neverwinter Nights, Rollercoaster tycoon.. Command and Conquer . the list goes on.. If steam was a thing back in the 90s I bet my top 20 by playtime would be half isometric..
As 2000s child when I hear "isometric" I immediately remember Sacred Underworld. In spite of the fact, that main character and all npc-s are 3D - it's all place on 2D world. is the GOAT for me. With simple plot in understanding, excellent game design that goes intuitively. The game present you to play different styles by bunch of charismatic characters with good shaped level of difficulty. Want to crush your enemies with brute strength? Gladiator is your choice... Play with hot blonde-angelic chick if you want do it righteous way with sacred magic and sword. Or you can play mage and use magic of 4 elements that are destructive and supportive. Do you want make some ninja character? Dark elf with poisons and bombs is your choice, and don't forget a Wood Elf with bow oriented playstyle or nature- magic. Play vampire chick to byte, summon wolves and bats at night, or to be knight at day. And at the end you can play Demoness (my favourite) to use demons power and unholy magic, or to play the Dwarf that can use muskets as ranged or axes at melee, or even a huge cannon on his back that are incinerate with napalm, bombing monsters with a huge dammage, and you can poop mines while running 😄 Germans did a good stuff those days! It was so good that when I realized Sacred was a Diablo-like game, I tried playing Diablo 2 afterward. But I ended up quitting after just three minutes of gameplay.😀 That's how good it is!
Limitations breeds innovation, making the best with what you have will sometimes create something better then when you have unlimited tools, unlimited resources and unlimited time. Though always the exception and not the rule since some just don't bother with what they have and try to only do the bare minimum to get something to work, having the inspiration and drive to make something good is always important. Today, both 2d (or often times 2.5d), as well as isometric games are all thriving and i'm glad to see it since it's something for everyone and i can enjoy both forms of games. My favourite form of isometric games myself are turn-based tactic games, recently finished Disgaea 5 which scratched that high number dopamine itch since the 6th game was so devoid of content.
I feel X-Com deserves a shout out for it's early usage of 8 camera angles to make it seem like it was a truly 3d world while really being make up of just flat images for everything.
X-Com had no such thing... Only the characters had 8 rotations, the world was still firmly constricted to a single camera angle. What it did have was multi layered, destructible landscape, which was actually quite impressive at the time
My parents had to get a second landline phone number for my room because I was constantly using the main number to dial into my friends PC to play old c&c. Good times.
Great video! I think you might enjoy a Spanish game called La Abadía del Crimen, loosely based on Umberto Eco's The Name of the Rose. It's considered a very advanced game for its time (1987), with a complex design, surprisingly good AI, and impressive isometric graphics, including an intricate abbey layout with a labyrinth.
Darkmere and Cadaver were simply beautiful isometric games on the Amiga. They still are! I remember I was blown away by graphics! Bushido on C64 also looks excellent in scope of system's limitations! Also, Dungeon Siege and Arcanum on PC are underated isometric RPGs!
As a big roller coaster tycoon fan, I was wondering if it would get mentioned. I will mention though: "it's a showcase of what's possible with thousands of individual hand drawn isometric blocks" those are all rendered. What made so much of it possible was that it wasn't hand drawn, Simon Foster (the artist) noted that some of the roller coasters considered of thousands of images alone and that it was modeled, rendered for as many frames as needed, and then Chris could use them as needed. It lives rent free in my head sitting on an old IBM laptop my father brought home from work, on a delayed Amtrak train in the dining car, having 2000+ guests wondering around the park, trees, rides, scenery, and more... and it didn't blink. And 23+ years later, I can run the original RCT (in compatibility mode) on Windows 10 and it still doesn't blink. Master class of programming. The spiritual successor to the game, Parkitect, is all 3D but still allows for running in isometric mode. So like Mario RPG and many other remakes, it's 3D but still keeps the original feel.
Quick story about Nox. I downloaded a copy on the warez scene back when it dropped and got instantly hooked. It wasnt because id heard of it, it was just because I finally got access to an FTP server and I didnt want to waste the opportunity. If you know you know. I was progressing through the game and realized that after hours of playing and much progression, I realized that hadn't quick saved .. so I did and it was at a point where a baddies projectile was coming towards me and it hit and killed me due to my low health. I was devastated. I cant tell you how many times I loaded that quick save and tried to avoid that projectile so that I can heal and proceed, but it was impossible! I never finished it. Serves me right for downloading it and not supporting the devs. Nox is one of those games that I played quite a bit but no one ever talks about. Kinda like General Chaos for the Genesis which I played the hell of with a friend as a youth. Thank you for the video
The isometric game which I played the most is defnitly Transport Tycoon Deluxe (1995). Programmed in x86 assembly by Chris Sawyer and with great SVGA graphics by Simon Foster it aged really well (They both did RCT after that).
The last evolution of the series was Locomotion, released in 2004. I believe it didn't sell well - bear in mind this is a year after Rollercoaster Tycoon 3 (by Frontier, not Chris) had come out, with (really janky/badly dated now) 3d graphics. It, like rct1+2 (openrct2) has an open-source improved version, called OpenLoco. When I say improved, I mean in gameplay and resolution terms - in openrct2 at least, the performance has been reduced by an incredible amount, to the point where somehow modern PCs do a slideshow when you zoom out! (or in, depending on the renderer you specify in the options). It really is incredible that a game that agave a solid 40fps on a pentium 200 now can get 5 with so much more power at hand. Needless to say, the devs aren't using assembly lol.
@@C.I...Locomotion obviously looked much better than TTD, but I found it fiddler to play and as you say, performance could slow considerably once you built a decent empire. TTD was (is) simple perfection.
When I got the "Dungeoneers Survival Guide" for AD&D, I got so excited because it had a whole section in the back of the book of grids to trace over so you could make your own isometric layouts for dungeons. My maps got waaaay cooler after that.
Thanks for the nostalgia trip :) My best gaming memories are from isometric games like Age of Empires II, Pharaoh, Caesar, Red Alert 2, Fallout 1+2, Jagged Alliance 2, Transport Tycoon, SimCIty 2k,3k,4, Diablo 2, Nox, and more. Many of those have HD/remastered version now.
seeing crusader: no remorse in the pc gaming mags back in the day made me lust after a pc that my family had no use for yet. i was the oldest kid and still a couple years away from "needing" a pc for "homework"
the first time my dad brought home a laptop from work that we could access the internet from, the very first thing I did was (very slowly) download screenshots of that game. I memorized the game guide before I ever played it while we where waiting to get a new computer. I loved them so much, up there with Doom 2, Heretic, Dark Forces, Simcity 2000, Diablo and Starcraft as the favorite games of my youth. I remember reading interviews with Tony Zuroveck and he would take about all the amazing features the sequel, Crusader: No Mercy was going to have but sadly that game never happened.
One of my classic faves was Transport Tycoon, more modern would be Project Zomboid. Lots of games actually used trimetric projection, that is like isometric but each triangle that makes up a cube uses a different angle, like Fallout.
Disappointed the Megadrive/Genesis didn't get much love in this video beyond Sonic 3D...it was an absolute isometric monster compared to the SNES : - Desert Strike (+Jungle/Urban) - Landstalker - Light Crusader - The Immortal - Haunting starring Polterguy - Arcus Odyssey - Cool Spot goes to Hollywood - there's an isometric level in Earthworm Jim 2 - Buck Rogers - Skeleton Krew - Predator 2 - ... ...and thats not even counting the multi-plats like Populous, Pacmania, Paperboy, RC Pro-Am etc.
Excellent idea for a video. As for my favorite isometric style game it's either Diablo 2 or Baldurs Gate 2. Those two games defined my adolescence and cemented my life long love of video games.
The great escape was the first isometric game I ever played. Ironically at the time the game felt so free. It felt like a living a world. Most hours sunk into an isometric game must be: Ultima Online.
One of my favorite games of this type has to be Solstice for the NES. It's by far my favorite game for the system overall too. I don't know how popular it was since the game was essentialy a Knight Lore clone and was also released in 1990 nearer the end of the NES's life cycle but I've never heard anyone mention it. Seeing this video just reminded me of it. If anyone hasn't played it, it's definitely worth a go (or could just be my rose tinted nostalgia glasses talking)
Honestly I think that true isometric scenarios, with the lack of perspective, have a special beauty that top-down 3D games don't match. And I don't really get why people don't use it, because a 3D rendering matrix can be very easily tweaked to not have any perspective and be isometric, and not just top-down.
Some of the classic RPG ISOs that I love to this day that we're not mentioned: SSIs Pool of Radiance and later (mid 2000s) Spiderweb Games with their Geneforge and Avernum series. Spiderweb carried a torch of this old school iso look and feel with new releases to this day! I suppose you mentioned "indie" games so maybe that was enough. Another I would put up was Robin Hood: Legend of Sherwood (But the Amiga had a lovely isometric Robin Hood game as well) as an ISO classic, nearly open world in regards to how you solved the scenarios, much like Commandos, but it added a crew management layer as well as a narrative "quest". I believe it was made by the same people who put out Desperados. Does anyone remember AOL's Neverwinter Nights??? And Meridian 59? I played nearly every game you mentioned! Syndicate will hold a special place in my memories. So much innovation in this space! ❤ It was an honor to live through the ages.
I just have to say that gaming is my greatest passion since a child (I'm 37) and I've studied it at the university, seen probably thousand of videos on youtube on gaming, read essays, blogs, etc, and to my recollection I have NEVER once heard about Knight Lore, so "considered one of the greatest games ever made"... hm... I'm curious - anyone else in a similar situation? I mean even if I'm young I've played and think I know about most old games as well if they were well-known enough to be remembered. Awesome video, by the way. I consider isometrics my favorite type of "game", more specifically for roleplaying games (and also games like Transistor, etc, even if I don't know if they're technically isometric), whilst for platforming I prefer other vantage points.
Nox was one of the most influential games on me as a kid. I played it SO much. It's so rare to even see it mentioned, let alone praised for what a banger it truly was.
@GreyDeathVaccine I loved the Warrior kit so much. Playing on LAN with friends, we were doing a free for all death match, and 4 of us decided to gang up on the 5th. 3 warriors all grappled him from different sides so he couldn't actually run in any direction, and a Conjuror did a Fist of Vengeance on him while he tried his best to get away. One of the funniest gaming moments I've ever had. 😂
🔒Remove your personal information from the web at JoinDeleteMe.com/MVG and use code MVG for 20% off. DeleteMe international Plans: international.joindeleteme.com 🙌
I will NOT remove my personal information from the web and will do everything I can to ensure I am on as many watch lists as possible!!!!
Hey ModernVintageGamer! Any chance we get a video on why some emulators require proprietary firmware/bios and why those could not be recreated as a free/open source implementation? Thanks and best regards!
because intellectual property- you can't legally re-implement somebody's IP without their permission. The unique design/mechanics of a software system is IP, and developing unique IP is more precious than gold, because that is both patent and trademark-able, rather than one or the other.
It's why game developers weren't allowed to use custom firmware on the N64 RDP without their blessing, which happened later on (and for) games like Factor5's Indy & the Infernal Machine; but few used that because it was too much of a hassle I suspect.
@@softwarelivre2389they can be recreated and in some cases are provided as an alternate option, it's just that the compatibility with open source console firmware is worse compared to original
@@zzco if you make clean room reimplementation, it is not breach of intelectual property. Otherwise, emulators wouldn't be allowed as well.
Lead programmer on THPS2 GBA here. Glad to see it in the mix! Fun fact, even though we rebuilt all the levels for the isometric projection, we ported most of the playstation code over to GBA, which is why it plays so much like the original title.
it's a shame Nintendo basically gets credit for your work.
thanks man. you'll forever be unknown in my mind, but i want you to be aware that i truly appreciate and expect you to be rewarded for your efforts.
nice game port though... can't you get hired to port games from PC to PC for ubisoft, they seem to have some issues with that.
It’s great to see seriously accomplished programmers casually drop in to Internet conversations about their works. Thank you for peeling back the veil a bit on something that must have been a great deal of work.
Thanks for your work! I LOVED these GBA games, after THPS 1 on GB Color let 8 year old me down so hard. So cool PS1 code was used
That is a very interesting fact! Thanks for sharing it. I have no connection to skating or sports games, but I still loved the Tony Hawk's series on GBA. It was such a great showcase of what the handheld can do.
The best use of isometric in all of gaming. I bow to your programming prowess! Thank you for making long car rides as a kid bearable.
1: Age of Empires
2: The Sims
in the 90's as the youngest of 4 - These games were probably the most played on our Pentium 2 PC
Yeah! AOE was my jam! 👍
Same here. Networked even. We kept spamming the sound bites in the AoE2 Lobby. Start the game already!
@@ToTheGAMES I still play it at least once a month.
@@AndrewDasilvaPLT Awesome! It holds up very well!
Pentium 2 is late 90s. It's weird seeing the 90s associated with vintage but time marches on.....
I worked as internal QA at Westwood Studios during the production of Nox. Really happy to see it mentioned in your video! I very much agree that it’s an overlooked classic. I had an incredible time testing all of the levels and game mechanics. Glad to know that I’m not the only one who enjoyed Nox!
Nox was amazing. One of the most overlooked games of its time.
Westwood Studios are just legend. They made fantastic games like Blade Runner, to bad they don't exist any more.
I have been trying to remember what this game was for over a decade. Something about an apple from your hometown of Dun Mir.
agree Nox was great!
The online was great too, so happy it got some recognition
I was the art studio director in the Medici Studio in 1432 in Florence when we developed isometric perspective. It's good seeing our work acknowledged after all these years.
Lol
you mean you've been working on video games in Florence since 1432? How old are you?
@@BelialTnTn 592 years I think
@@NoraNoitamakes sense
@@BelialTnTn woosh?
Desperados was realy a piece of art. I also enjoyed Commandos, Caesar3, AOE2, Red Alert 2 and ofcourse Diablo2.
My two sisters loved playing AOE but only the initial tutorial levels. They hated the whole idea of fighting and killing each other but adored building up a town through cutting down trees and hunter-gathering food for the community. They'd play for hours deforesting the tutorial maps while deliberately ignoring the objective. Caesar3 was perfect for them, it gave you the choice between a peaceful or military victory condition. My big sister in particular loved growing her city, first time she tried military she was so offended by their violent actions she almost stopped playing altogether.
After playing the military objectives I realised the game is orders of magnitudes easier. Trying to placate pompous Romans demanding olives and high quality pottery was a nightmare compared with brutal violent oppression, in hindsight that's quite historically realistic.
I still can't believe Chris Sawyer wrote nearly all of Rollercoaster Tycoon in assembly. You must either have to be mad, a genius, or both.
Would not be the least bit surprised if I learned that Chris Sawyer was a mad genius.
Its pretty well established that Chris is hardcore
he used tons of macros, which greatly helped him. But still, it is an amazing achievement.
A great deal of games in the 90s were done in assembly. With Chris it's more that he didn't move onto C++ when a lot of others in the industry did, but it was common practice in the early 90s. Also he built the engine up in Transport Tycoon first, so it wasn't like he did Rollercoaster entirely by scratch.
Sure display code needs to run many times per second and assembly makes sense for that but game logic can be in C or other higher level language and this wouldn’t matter. Just wasted effort unless you’re coding for some 8 or 16 bit chips
MVG you play a relatively unique role in the retro/game historian community as far as I can tell. I appreciate that you bring attention to genres and styles that others don't and you regularly seem to highlight interesting and worthy gaming achievements that had an impact on your gaming history. I watch a lot of retro gaming youtube and this is the first video I've personally seen highlighting the origins of the isometric art style and game design. Keep up the great work!
Also he gives credit where credit is due, while others would just mention how dated they look.
I agree, MVG is one of the worst gaming channels.
@@adfasfuiuiui1056 ????
Modern Isometric Gamer
Isometric Vintage Gamer
MIG
😅
AMIGA: Awesome Modern Isometric Gamer Alliance
Old and new it's all good ✌🏻
Loved your description of the Commandos and Desperados games as "oil paintings that come to life", so true! 😄 That's exactly why that specific style of isometric graphics will never really go "out of date".
4:00 To be fair, all 3d rendered games are a way of drawing 3d objects on a 2d plane so they appear to have depth.
The difference is there's no scaling with depth (vanishing point projection). Isometric projection has been used in drafting for centuries. Not only does it create a 3D-looking view, but because none of the lines are scaled with depth, you can measure lines to get exact measurements. Making it nearly as useful as an orthographic projection (object drawn as front, top, and side views). This is the same trait which made it useful for creating faux-3D games (no scaling with depth = no 3D calculations required).
A better way to put it is an isometric projection is a 2D drawing which looks 3D-ish. Not an accurate projection of a 3D object onto a 2D plane.
one axctually met with another more actually one - internet comment perfection!
@@xBINARYGODx Truly a historic moment ☺️
The Super Mario RPG remake is actually a great example of how fixed isometric perspectives still have a place in the world even with fully 3D assets. It’s one of the best looking games on the switch because the devs were able to really tune the textures and models to look just right from the fixed angles. Not unlike with 2D art
It looks and plays nicely, but I am still trying to get around how there are frame rate drips in some of the busier scenes.
It's an update of a newly 30 year old SNES game, for chirssakes!
Of all the faults Diablo 4 has, it's visuals are spectacular as it still uses that isometric view
The original looks better.
@@FelixS. No
@@crestofhonor2349 Nobody talked to you.
isometric pre-rendered 2D spaces are so immersive, captivating and beautiful. Baldurs Gate 1, Fallout 2, C&C Tiberian Sun, Sim City 3 & 4, Diablo 2, Stronghold 1 & Crusader, Robin Hood: The Legend of Sherwood, Age of Empires 1& 2, Prince of Quin, Dragon Throne: Battle of Red Cliffs, Knights of Honor, Caesar and Pharaoh, Celtic Kings : Rage of War, Planescape Torment, Heroes 3, Dungeon Keeper, Kohan Immortal Sovereigns, Warlords Battlecry 3
I havnt played most of them in over 10-15 years, and i can still perfectly visualize the levels, atmospheres, units and main plot events. isometric pre-rendered 2D spaces are S+ tier.
You named Fallout 2, Heroes 2, two of my favorite games.
Stronghold ❤ wood stocks are too low sire. Morning mi lordship
just for mentioning Warlords Battlecry game you get my like ( 2 and 3 were awesome games )
Golden age of gaming, in my opinon.
STARCRAAAAFT 1. Nobody says StarCraft 1. I gonna cry
Not to be left out: RTS games. Dune II was sorta isometric, but the first Warcraft and C&C games are what really pushed it. It's the standard look for the genre ever since.
Dune II was overhead...its remake Dune 2000 in the Command & Conquer engine was isometric-ish
@@businesscat380 the graphics are sorta drawn to be isometric, but yes, it doesn't go all in.
@@timmmurray8110 The Red Alert 2 engine Westwood moved onto after Tiberian Sun, that was properly isometric
I had a feeling this would be a near-Mandela effect but: WarCraft 1 was NOT an isometric game. Blew mind a few years ago when I happened across a playthrough.
Warcraft is not very isometric, but Starcraft 1 definitely is, and 25 years later it's still one of the popular RTS
It is one of the first games to have automatically stitched isometric terrain, and that was done is a rather quirky way, allowing for non-isometric terrain with minimal hacking
I friggn love Syndicate (1). The writing is outstanding and the atmosphere is so great!
Great music and sfx too (if you could get them working, which on the PC wasn't easy).
I haven’t played it in a long time but I’ll always remember it as one of my favorite games ever.
1994's X-COM: UFO Defense truly was a terrifyingly great game and a wonderful example of how blending simple isometric techniques with fog of war and fear of the unknown (along with some real spine chilling music) created a game that punched well above its weight and started a legacy. Glad you mentioned it and gave it a little screen time towards the end. Loved the video MVG, keep it up!
Still one of my all time favorite games. The strategy in the combat, leveling up individual members of your squad, base management, resource acquisition, researching, etc. was such a perfect combo. Add in the eerie atmosphere and midi sounds, it's an all time classic.
I'll never forget the horror of terror sites and having your squad turned into more enemies. They were close combat only enemies (crysalids?) , so having the last squad members hiding in the transport where the enemies wouldn't go and hoping your ammo was enough to kill them is a clear memory from many many years ago.... (yes, I learned to play better once older, but I think the game was more fun when I had no idea what I was doing)
Was called X-COM: Enemy Unknown in my market.
Commandos 2 is still one of the most beautiful games I've ever seen. The backdrops are so rich and detailed.
Finally someone acknowledges Nox. It's criminal how underrated that game is.
I agree. I still have my original big box copy too!
The multiplayer was pretty fun. That unique fog of war system the game had actually made it possible to hide despite the isometric perspective.
If I recall correctly, when I read the GOG reviews for it, it had a major problem or two. Can't remember what it was though. Or it might have been an old GameSpot review.
EDIT: Looks like game was kinda short on content and the inventory can be annoying. So some GOG reviews say here anyway.
@@arnox4554 It's a bit shorter than, say, Diablo, but makes up with it through quality over quantity. It's a lot more dense than most games in the genre.
@@arnox4554 Peak NOX was the multiplayer era when the servers/westwood were live. You would either quest on PVE on other people's servers, or do non-quest-gear PVP on PVP servers. It's so weird, I've yet to see other hack and slash game do PVP like NOX did, despite how long the new diablos and path of exile games have been out.
I am currently developing a pixel art isometric game so this video definitely made me feel happy.
Good luck my dude
Do you have a twitter account or somewhere where you post updates? I'd love to keep and eye on this project as a fellow dev
@@DrSpaceman42 Thank you!
@@alejorag I do have a Twitter with a same nickname as here just with "a" instead of "4". I unfortunately haven't started posting about this project yet since it's still in the stage of ugly programmer's art.
Same here, also building a pixel art isometric game! Love the style so much
The Immortal was THE game that made me like that "style" of videogames, to the point that I don't care about the actual style of the game itself, but only the camera angles. Excelent video, dude! Cheers from Brazil!
Jagged Alliance 2 is art to to me. i spent many many 100's of hours playing that in the early 2000's and still boot it up once a year or so for a full playthrough.
Viva Arulco! JA2 has of course been community modded to improve just about every aspect of the original game, building on but not diminishing the awesome original game.
When I think isometric, there are 3 games that comes to mind right away: desert/jungle strike on Genesis, I loved those games despite sucking at it and always running out of fuel as a kid..
And transport tycoon deluxe.. That game was/is awesome, I love everything about it.
Special mention to little big aventure.. I bought that game as a kid, and it was HARD as hell and very special for me.. I never finished it but I remember seeing the planet half burnt and all, it was a shocker for me back in the days.. Good memories!
good picks! im gonna add Simcity 2000 to it
I also remember Little Big Adventure very fondly, especially for the very creative worldbuilding. Reviews of the time also mentioned the difficulty, but I have beaten it without much issues.
It was probably caused by the tank controls, which made it so much harder for many people.
Little Great Adventure was awesome!!! I remember it by the name Twinsen's Adventure, though.
I miss westwood studios. they literally made my childhood so memorable.
Yes. Want to know what made my childhood memorable? Jello pops spinning and shooting through the hallways and honing in on teachers skipping class. They did that sometimes when the parakeets (specifically the blue ones) hid toothpaste in very specific places in the ceiling. It was a plot to pop the volleyballs to bring down the latest dynasty (the pillows, not the brand).
So do I. I loved all C&C games up till Yuri's Revenge (well, not counting Renegade, considering it a spin-off).
I still play red alert 2 and Yuri's revenge on my laptop.
Isometric has always been my favourite viewpoint! Desert and Jungle Strike, SC2000, Crusader, No Regret and No Remorse, X-Com, CnC, Bedlam, all fantastic isometric little worlds I loved exploring and blowing up :)
Currently replaying Diablo 2 :)
Not even watched the vid yet but full power MVG ✌️
I loved the Crusader games so much! Literally the first thing I did with internet access was (slowly) download some pictures of that. The Ascent is a decent modern version of this
Desert Strike and Jungle Strike were great!
I think a significant development in isometric games, was in the RTS genre, like Dune, Command & Conquor, Age of Empires and Red Alert.
Of newer variants, games like Path of Exile stands out too.
Underrail is modern classic
There I was, finger on the reply trigger, about to make my first post!!?? Until I watched the final seconds… :)
That character sprite, the potion sound effect, plus the outro music of ShadowRun. Yes!
Cheers @MVG!
For everything hey, you still take me back and it’s awesome.
Crusader series was actually really great as well. Crusader: No Remorse and Crusader: No Regret. Amazing games.
The Crusader games were waaaay ahead of their time. I'm surprised they don't get talked about much these days.
@@acomingextinction Probably because of their difficult controls. Amazing games, but there's a bit of a learning curve, and you know how lazy modern gamers can be...
@@acomingextinctionI too was hoping it was going to get more coverage. The controls were indeed difficult but provided a lot of freedom when moving and during combat
Came here to say the Crusader series. I loved those games and still play them from time to time.
@@acomingextinctionSame here I always feel like I was the only one that played them. They are rarely discussed but were peak gameplay a design there for awhile.
Little big adventure from 1994 gets slept on a lot it’s basically a Zelda clone with lots of charm and personality, it’s getting a remake this year for the 30th anniversary, anyone who’s a fan of isometric games should check it out it was way ahead of its time!
wow LBA was from 1994? I'm getting old...
A very underrated classic
An amazing game with a unique world and lore that I think only the French could come up with.
Yea, both the 1st and second LBA games are hidden gems. So happy I grew up with those.
I've never heard of it! I must check it out.
I remember being blown away when I saw what I think is Landstalker, on Sega Channel. I most of found it toward the end of its time on SC, because it disappeared a few days later. It was such a pretty game. The isomorphic view gave it a feeling of depth and mystery.
landstalker was the shit
Landstalker was the best. I couldn't even get it in Europe, so when my father had to travel to New York, I asked him to buy it for me.
Hmm… it was available in the UK on cartridge. I never realised it wasn’t released in some territories.
This was almost my #1 isometric game… but I’m torn between Landstalker, Populous and Syndicate Wars 🤔
Landstalker might be my favorite game of all time. It has captivated me since it was released.
None of us knew where your jump would land you.
Most of my all time favorite childhood games were isometric- Crusader: No Remorse, Simcity 2000, Warcraft 2, Starcraft and Diablo. Crusader: No Remorse I think is a super underrated forgotten gem.
great video! I wonder why RTS were not mentioned, pretty big genre that also used isometric graphics!
I was waiting for StarCraft
I feel like that is because everyone knows about and is familiar with isometric RTSs as they are still very popular to this day. Populous was a great example for how ground breaking it was at the time, It wasn't just isometric but had proper 3d terrain manipulation. Blew my mind as a kid in ~1990.
Rollercoaster Tycoon is an absolute masterpiece. As a theme park and rollercoaster enthusiast to begin with, it really tapped into my imagination in a way no other video game ever had. Before the game came along I designed my own rollercoasters on paper and built elaborate models of my fantasy rollercoasters out of various materials. When the game came out during my sophomore year of high school, it was like a fantasy came true. It seriously became my happy place during a very difficult time in my life. I played endless hours of RCT, RCT2 and RCT3. Still do. I have RCT 1 and 2 on my phone and RCT3 on the Switch.
If you haven't checked it out already, I'd encourage you to check out the open source implement of the game - OpenRCT2. It fixes bugs, adds quality of life features, several new coaster types, co op multiplayer, and great new creative tools.
The community around it is pretty strong too, with TH-cam channels like Deurklink, Marcel Vos, and Andrelzyck Amusement Academy.
Its a great game man :)
you can't draw lines end to end in paint anymore. god only knows why they did this, but when you draw a line, it actually places a line object with clickable dog ears, which an ear at each end of the line. so if you try to quickly draw another line (like we all did for 20 years prior) then it will instead grab the dog ear of the line you just placed and you will be dragging it around. you just have to learn to deselect the line by clicking away. you will never be able to quickly draw end to end. if you hit escape, it will just delete the line you drew. if you hit tab, it will move the mouse to the center of the line or the other end.
Classic Microsoft "improvements".
Ctrl+Space works for me
Totally intuitive /s
Knight Lore blew my mind back in 84. Had its limitations and slowdown on busy screens could be a bit painful, but showed us what could be achieved with the Spectrum.
I never knew what I was doing on that game, but loved exploring the rooms. Worked well on the BBC B
It looked better than it played.
Me too, although once Head Over Heels came out, Knight Lore immediately felt outdated. (Arguably when Batman came out, but HOH sealed it.)
Knight Lore definitely started a trend, but I don't remember the games that followed ever being referred to as "Knight Lore clones". They were always "isometric games", perhaps because there was quite a variety, and many were better games than Knight Lore.
eg: The Great Escape, Highway Encounter, Hydrofool, Detective, Get Dexter, Fairlight, Inside Outing; all pretty different.
@@AnthonyFlack agreed, gameplay mechanics were improved by Batman, and Head over Heels was a quantum leap forward (and one of the few games of that type I actually completed several times). Knight Lore itself wasn’t a brilliant game as such, but the visuals and general mechanics were pretty revolutionary.
I love isometric games. Seeing The Last Ninja, Populous and Syndicate here made my day. Thank you.
The Last Ninja played like absolute ass though.
I loved Populous as a young kid, it taught me to spell the word leading to my proudest moment. My older sister had a vocabulary test including the word "populous", for the first time I knew how to spell a word she didn't!
Watching this video made me realise - almost all of my childhood favourites that I still play today are isometric. Rollercoaster Tycoon 2, Sim City 2000, Diablo 2, Fallout, X-Com & Terror From the Deep - all games I've played on a regular basis since they first released. It really is a timeless aesthetic.
Technically... Fallout is cavalier oblique, not isometric. From Tim Cain's mouth himself. 😉
Check out underrail for a modern fallout 1 experience. I've it so many hours into that game and the expansion. Can't recommend it enough!
I was an artist on Terror From the Deep (I did most of the sprites) so it's always nice to know it's still held in high regard by those that played it.
@@repletereplete8002 No joke - first game I ever played on a PC. Played it to death, too - though mostly the death of my 'nauts, I had no idea what a difficulty curve even was at that point, nevermind a difficulty cliff. Thankyou for your beautiful artwork - but if you still have any contact with whoever was writing the AI, please tell them in no uncertain terms to suck a fart.
@@Jeffmetal42 I'm not about to tell Tim Cain what he knows about Fallout, but I'll happily get adenoidal with him about projection types - 'Cavalier' is when the 'front' is perpendicular to the view angle, and axes are of uniform length. Trimetric matches Fallout's projection - which makes sense, given it's played on a hex-grid.
A bit sad Transport tycoon wasn't mentioned but Rollercoaster tycoon was. But super happy to see Nox, indeed one of the most underrated games.
get OpenTTD!
Strongly agree.
My first experience with an isometric game was Roller Coaster Tycoon 2. That game was my entire childhood for so long, and I’ve been looking for similar tycoon games in that isometric style. Something about it is so much more appealing to me than the full 3D tycoon games.
Check out Parkitecht if you haven't already!
You should try OpenRCT2 if you haven't, its the modern implementation of RCT2 with many improvement. And also check out OpenTTD, it's an open-source remake of Transport Tycoon, a game that also developed by Chris Sawyer, amazing
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Thoroughly enjoyed this video. Snake, Rattle and Roll for the NES was a favourite back in the day.
I'm a huge fan of Relentless: Twinsen's Adventures (known as Little Big Adventure in the rest of the world). Isometric view, proper 3D, and was a fun game to play. It's getting a remaster some time soon which should make it more enjoyable, as the controls were very clunky at times.
Back in the day when the french made awesome games.
From the director and selected team of the earlier Alone in the dark iirc - the controls were quite similar in that they were very clunky, as you said already.. man it was pretty tough aswell. Great music too 👍 (edit for typo).
Second this - those wacky sfx
I never played the first one, but LBA2 is one of my all time favorites, pretty much on par with ocarina of time but it came like 2 years before it.
So many comments about that great game, I am very happy that gem of a game isn't forgotten yet.
It's telling that Roller Coaster Tycoon holds up enough today that it still has an active community, built mostly around OpenRCT2 - and with custom content made for the game, it's still being made in the original style.
The beauty of isometric games
Quick correction - the pop up text during the segment on Nox says it was made by “Westward Studios,” not “Westwood Studios,” which is the correct studio.
Correct 👍
Rollercoaster Tycoon 2 was my childhood. So many good memories mucking about and creating parks with friends. I think it's style is what made me fall in love with isometric games. Thanks for making this video!
Just seeing the title I know that commandos will be in it. Last year I met a guy in Madrid that worked at Pyro at that time, and it was a blast for both of us speaking about these games and the development stories 👏
Of course Populous was 'Ground Breaking' that was the core mechanic! :)
There was something therapeutic about levelling the ground in order to build castles.
@@jaysmith2858 I can totally relate but from the POV of a Scenario builder in Age Of Empires. They used the same mechanic
I played that game so much I challenged myself in later levels to raise my entire civilisation to the max build height only to spam flood over and over until only the last block remained. It didn't matter if the enemy lived atop a volcano, they all went the way of Atlantis. The later CPU ai rulesets cheated where if a person was drowning it would immediately raise a block to save them, but they had nowhere to build and would die of exposure or of me flooding once again.
Strictly speaking, an isometric perspective refers to a graphical projection where all axes of space are equally foreshortened with a common angle of 120° between them. However, not all video games labeled as having an isometric perspective actually use said perspective. Other parallel projections are also used with a dimetric perspective being the most common (much more so than true isometry) but other projections can be found occasionally as well. Thus, it would be more accurate to call these parallel projection games.
Completely agree.
Many games shown in the video don't use the 120° angle between the three axes. They still look good, but technically not isometric.
Also, most pixel-art-based isometric games actually use an approximation. The slanted axes advance two pixels horizontally for each vertical pixel. It's very close to isometric, but not really iso-metric when you measure it. (It's 126.87° and 116.57°.) That was a deliberate choice, as it simplifies the graphics and it still looks good and sharp.
This bugged me as well, along with the mixing up of "hand drawn" and "pre-rendered" sprites and not even mentioning but showing realtime 3d characters on 2d backgrounds.
it's an annoyingly common misconception! i recently saw a video about beating minecraft as an "isometric" game by using a mod that enforced an orthographic perspective. the mod had free camera movement! #pedantRights
As he mentions in the video too, a lot of newer games people call isometric are also just full 3D, even with perspective instead of orthogonal. Just using a camera angle people tend to associate with Isometric.
You need to do a part 2 with more games. Landstalker, Cool Spot Goes to Hollywood, and others from the 16 bit era go criminally overlooked.
I'm baffled at how much RTS you left out. RTS games truly carried Isometric games on their shoulders for a stunning amount of years.
No one cares about RTS, video is still valid.
I do care about RTS games and isometric view is one of the reasons AoE 2 is still the best within the series.
Final Fantasy Tactics was one I immediately thought of with just the title of the video. I know it wasn’t particularly early in the world of isometric 3D games, but it has been one of my favs and I’ve gone back and played it time and time again (Mario RPG also was one I liked a lot too), so glad it made an appearance here!
Arcanum.
Hell of a game, basically Fallout 2 with a steampunk fantasy setting.
Who wouldn't want to have a fantasy RPG set in 1886 where you can machine gun dwarves en masse or break a train with your mere magical presence? Or perhaps convince the end boss to end himself for you?
Man, I loved that game and the setting. It's so ripe for a rebuild and bugfix.
Unofficial Arcanum Patch is like 99% bugfix, it's a must.
But I 100% agree, this game deserves more love
Came here to say this. Still one of my fav games of all time.
This. I was hoping that he would mention it. The setting is so unique, and it’s disappointing that besides the more hardcore rpg fans not many seem to know about it. Truly a great game that still deserves a lot more recognition.
My best friend at the time and I loved the game, the setting was so unique. Sadly the game was not translated and my level of English was not great back then and I could not progress far, I should play it again...
One of the very best RPGs ever as far as I'm concerned.
Little Big Adventure was my favorite isometric game. And it was definitely worth mentioning in this video
Yeah, pretty sure this video is sort a AI generated? Weird calls... Desperados before the first Commandos? no LBA?
Amazing game, they are making a visual for the 30th year anniversary.
For me then as a child and now, Head over Heels is still THE game I love above all others. It still plays as well as it did when it came out. Back then on my CPC6128 with the good GT65 green monitor and today with my C64C :)
As a young boy I often found isometric games less scary to play. There is a certain level of overview, you see thing coming and things are generally slower than for instance a game like Doom which a lot of classmates liked but was a bit too much for young me. Also, as mentioned, the graphics being pretty and somewhat predictable (because of the tiling) helped greatly in finding comfort in the world, even if the topic was still somewhat dark.
A great example of an isometric game is Little Big Adventure / Twinsen's Adventure. They combined it with a rather cute world - which still held a story about dictatorship by the way. Awesome game, it's successor LBA 2 / Twinsen's Odyssey indeed uses a 3D engine but still from an isometric perspective mostly.
16:43 To say this game has been underrated is a underrated statement. Nox, was an awesome game!!
Before the dark times, before the horse armour...
That horse armor really was the beginning of the end.
Shakes fist at Todd
16 times less bullshit as well
I mostly blame microsoft
Didnt maplestory do its shenanigans way before the horse armor?
There were SO many amazing iso games that went unnoticed by the larger community.
Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura, anyone?
Loved the art in Arcanum, but it was impossibly hard, so I never got to enjoy it. Such a dissappointment.
@@Vermilicious It was extremely hard in real-time mode. But I'm telling you, toggling it to be turn-based way WAY more manageable. Also, molotov cocktails were super easy to make and were beyond OP in turn-based mode. Did lots of damage and knocked almost everything back so if you had a good supply it was a cake walk. Just sayin.
@@Vermilicious Unfortunately it's very unbalanced, especially for a technologist.
There are a few community patches attempting to rebalance it, such as multiverse edition, or try creating more combat-optimized character.
The game is actually quite easy, it's difficulty is outweighed by it's cheesiness.
If you miss alot, stand in the light or buy a lantern - oftentimes your character cannot see.
If you are too slow with a sword buy a rapier at creation shop or IIRC in Tarant.
Learn Molotov as tech and Harm as mage - both are cheap and OP and helped me out of many sticky situations.
If you need XP - train on infinite zombies in Ashbury graveyard. BTW get the dog there also.
If you struggle with money steal Ritzee's key while he's asleap (junk shop in shrouded hills). it may take a couple of reloads with 1 level of pickpocket or use a fate point (worth it): ~1k coins per day - click his chest before speaking with him, sleep far outside of a shop to refresh it
If you lack muscle, hire half-orge in shrouded hills inn. He is capable of completing most of early game combat for you if you give him a melee weapon, and loot armor from half-orges blocking the bridge.
There is absolutely no shame in relying on followers for skills you don't have - it is fully intended and in theme for i.e. an intellectual to hire bodyguards in that world.
@@Vermilicious You had so many options for builds, but some skills were borderline useless.
"A dwarf with nae beard? Sacrilege!"
Didn't think about Commandos in decades.. glad to hear part 2 got remastered, will grab it 👍
There is also a new game coming out in a few months called Commandos: Origins, it's being made by a lot of members of the original studio (Pyro) so it's technically going to be Commandos 4. Commandos 2 and 3 both got HD remasters around 2021.
Many thanks for this isometric portfolio! I'm a rookie solo developer working on my dream game project.
Early on I decided on an isometric perspective because as you said it looks superb, creating a faux 3D whilst allowing beautiful crisp 2D pixel art!
Maybe I'm biased because I grew up in the golden age of isometric games (arcanum, theme hospital, command & conquer, desperados to name a few) but I think the isometric style is severely underrated in the modern era.
Thanks again!
I am really into Isometric art, but one aspect fascinated me the most:
Being able to rotate the viewport.
As MVG said in the video, some games allowed for this, but up until now I haven't found good resources on how this works or how to make it myself.
I am very grateful for any hints that can help me with my endeavour :)
Cheers
No mention of 1983’s isometric classic “3D Ant Attack” on the good ol’ speccy?
Yeah I was thinking that 👍
That game was a thing of beauty. And then there's also last ninja, which is nothing less than a work of art.
Wow, you've made me register something i've never even thought of.. a TON of my Fav games are/were isometric!!
Hades, Diablo , Syndicate, Theme Park, Sims, Sim City, Neverwinter Nights, Rollercoaster tycoon.. Command and Conquer . the list goes on.. If steam was a thing back in the 90s I bet my top 20 by playtime would be half isometric..
Little big adventure, a must play.
As 2000s child when I hear "isometric" I immediately remember Sacred Underworld. In spite of the fact, that main character and all npc-s are 3D - it's all place on 2D world. is the GOAT for me. With simple plot in understanding, excellent game design that goes intuitively. The game present you to play different styles by bunch of charismatic characters with good shaped level of difficulty. Want to crush your enemies with brute strength? Gladiator is your choice... Play with hot blonde-angelic chick if you want do it righteous way with sacred magic and sword. Or you can play mage and use magic of 4 elements that are destructive and supportive. Do you want make some ninja character? Dark elf with poisons and bombs is your choice, and don't forget a Wood Elf with bow oriented playstyle or nature- magic. Play vampire chick to byte, summon wolves and bats at night, or to be knight at day. And at the end you can play Demoness (my favourite) to use demons power and unholy magic, or to play the Dwarf that can use muskets as ranged or axes at melee, or even a huge cannon on his back that are incinerate with napalm, bombing monsters with a huge dammage, and you can poop mines while running 😄 Germans did a good stuff those days! It was so good that when I realized Sacred was a Diablo-like game, I tried playing Diablo 2 afterward. But I ended up quitting after just three minutes of gameplay.😀 That's how good it is!
Limitations breeds innovation, making the best with what you have will sometimes create something better then when you have unlimited tools, unlimited resources and unlimited time.
Though always the exception and not the rule since some just don't bother with what they have and try to only do the bare minimum to get something to work, having the inspiration and drive to make something good is always important. Today, both 2d (or often times 2.5d), as well as isometric games are all thriving and i'm glad to see it since it's something for everyone and i can enjoy both forms of games.
My favourite form of isometric games myself are turn-based tactic games, recently finished Disgaea 5 which scratched that high number dopamine itch since the 6th game was so devoid of content.
so true
I feel X-Com deserves a shout out for it's early usage of 8 camera angles to make it seem like it was a truly 3d world while really being make up of just flat images for everything.
I still play the original. Still one of the best games ever.
X-Com had no such thing...
Only the characters had 8 rotations, the world was still firmly constricted to a single camera angle.
What it did have was multi layered, destructible landscape, which was actually quite impressive at the time
@@juliusfucik4011 Truly! One of my favorites for a life.
Tiberian sun series and the red alert series dominated my childhood!
My parents had to get a second landline phone number for my room because I was constantly using the main number to dial into my friends PC to play old c&c. Good times.
Kirov reporting!
Me and my brothers LOVED Syndicate Wars and GTA1 ... What a timeline to be alive!
Great video! I think you might enjoy a Spanish game called La Abadía del Crimen, loosely based on Umberto Eco's The Name of the Rose. It's considered a very advanced game for its time (1987), with a complex design, surprisingly good AI, and impressive isometric graphics, including an intricate abbey layout with a labyrinth.
The Immortal on megadrive was awesome, not only for this 3D perspective, but also the death scenes.
Darkmere and Cadaver were simply beautiful isometric games on the Amiga. They still are! I remember I was blown away by graphics! Bushido on C64 also looks excellent in scope of system's limitations! Also, Dungeon Siege and Arcanum on PC are underated isometric RPGs!
came here looking for cadaver - an under-appreciated masterpiece of a game!
Can't believe he didn't mention Little Big Adventure.
It never ceases to amaze me when devs are able to come up with ingenious ways to work around the limitations of the systems they're working on.
As a big roller coaster tycoon fan, I was wondering if it would get mentioned. I will mention though: "it's a showcase of what's possible with thousands of individual hand drawn isometric blocks" those are all rendered. What made so much of it possible was that it wasn't hand drawn, Simon Foster (the artist) noted that some of the roller coasters considered of thousands of images alone and that it was modeled, rendered for as many frames as needed, and then Chris could use them as needed. It lives rent free in my head sitting on an old IBM laptop my father brought home from work, on a delayed Amtrak train in the dining car, having 2000+ guests wondering around the park, trees, rides, scenery, and more... and it didn't blink. And 23+ years later, I can run the original RCT (in compatibility mode) on Windows 10 and it still doesn't blink. Master class of programming. The spiritual successor to the game, Parkitect, is all 3D but still allows for running in isometric mode. So like Mario RPG and many other remakes, it's 3D but still keeps the original feel.
Quick story about Nox. I downloaded a copy on the warez scene back when it dropped and got instantly hooked. It wasnt because id heard of it, it was just because I finally got access to an FTP server and I didnt want to waste the opportunity. If you know you know. I was progressing through the game and realized that after hours of playing and much progression, I realized that hadn't quick saved .. so I did and it was at a point where a baddies projectile was coming towards me and it hit and killed me due to my low health. I was devastated. I cant tell you how many times I loaded that quick save and tried to avoid that projectile so that I can heal and proceed, but it was impossible! I never finished it. Serves me right for downloading it and not supporting the devs. Nox is one of those games that I played quite a bit but no one ever talks about. Kinda like General Chaos for the Genesis which I played the hell of with a friend as a youth. Thank you for the video
The isometric game which I played the most is defnitly Transport Tycoon Deluxe (1995).
Programmed in x86 assembly by Chris Sawyer and with great SVGA graphics by Simon Foster it aged really well (They both did RCT after that).
The last evolution of the series was Locomotion, released in 2004. I believe it didn't sell well - bear in mind this is a year after Rollercoaster Tycoon 3 (by Frontier, not Chris) had come out, with (really janky/badly dated now) 3d graphics.
It, like rct1+2 (openrct2) has an open-source improved version, called OpenLoco.
When I say improved, I mean in gameplay and resolution terms - in openrct2 at least, the performance has been reduced by an incredible amount, to the point where somehow modern PCs do a slideshow when you zoom out! (or in, depending on the renderer you specify in the options). It really is incredible that a game that agave a solid 40fps on a pentium 200 now can get 5 with so much more power at hand. Needless to say, the devs aren't using assembly lol.
@@C.I...Locomotion obviously looked much better than TTD, but I found it fiddler to play and as you say, performance could slow considerably once you built a decent empire. TTD was (is) simple perfection.
Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain qualifies I think.
Would LOVE a Nightdive remaster of that gem.
12:35 lol him trying to figure out how to close the menu
When I got the "Dungeoneers Survival Guide" for AD&D, I got so excited because it had a whole section in the back of the book of grids to trace over so you could make your own isometric layouts for dungeons. My maps got waaaay cooler after that.
Thanks for the nostalgia trip :) My best gaming memories are from isometric games like Age of Empires II, Pharaoh, Caesar, Red Alert 2, Fallout 1+2, Jagged Alliance 2, Transport Tycoon, SimCIty 2k,3k,4, Diablo 2, Nox, and more. Many of those have HD/remastered version now.
seeing crusader: no remorse in the pc gaming mags back in the day made me lust after a pc that my family had no use for yet.
i was the oldest kid and still a couple years away from "needing" a pc for "homework"
I remember Ultima 7 was a bit of a shot in the arm for the whole pc game industry.
I'm so glad to see Crusader: No Remorse on that list! It was my first PC game and I still love its graphics.
the first time my dad brought home a laptop from work that we could access the internet from, the very first thing I did was (very slowly) download screenshots of that game. I memorized the game guide before I ever played it while we where waiting to get a new computer. I loved them so much, up there with Doom 2, Heretic, Dark Forces, Simcity 2000, Diablo and Starcraft as the favorite games of my youth. I remember reading interviews with Tony Zuroveck and he would take about all the amazing features the sequel, Crusader: No Mercy was going to have but sadly that game never happened.
One of my classic faves was Transport Tycoon, more modern would be Project Zomboid. Lots of games actually used trimetric projection, that is like isometric but each triangle that makes up a cube uses a different angle, like Fallout.
Disappointed the Megadrive/Genesis didn't get much love in this video beyond Sonic 3D...it was an absolute isometric monster compared to the SNES :
- Desert Strike (+Jungle/Urban)
- Landstalker
- Light Crusader
- The Immortal
- Haunting starring Polterguy
- Arcus Odyssey
- Cool Spot goes to Hollywood
- there's an isometric level in Earthworm Jim 2
- Buck Rogers
- Skeleton Krew
- Predator 2
- ...
...and thats not even counting the multi-plats like Populous, Pacmania, Paperboy, RC Pro-Am etc.
The very first FIFA from 1993 is like a benchmark for isometric sport titles.
Oh God the snot world level in EWJ2, that level sucked!
@@sovo1212 Oh yeah, forgot FIFA 😂 NBA Live was similarly isometric too
Excellent idea for a video. As for my favorite isometric style game it's either Diablo 2 or Baldurs Gate 2. Those two games defined my adolescence and cemented my life long love of video games.
Games that should have been mentioned: Little Big Adventure, Anno 1503, Anno 1602, Sim City 2000, Brigador
The great escape was the first isometric game I ever played. Ironically at the time the game felt so free. It felt like a living a world. Most hours sunk into an isometric game must be: Ultima Online.
I bought Nox at a convenience store bargain bin for a couple of dollars around 2005. It was the best $2 purchase I've ever made. Excellent game.
It is FTP now noxcommunity.
God, I loved so many games utilizing that:
Heroquest
Themepark
Themepark Hospital
Constructor
Diablo 1 + 2
Baldurs Gate 2
Jagged Alliance 2
+1 for Jagged Alliance 2
One of my favorite games of this type has to be Solstice for the NES. It's by far my favorite game for the system overall too. I don't know how popular it was since the game was essentialy a Knight Lore clone and was also released in 1990 nearer the end of the NES's life cycle but I've never heard anyone mention it. Seeing this video just reminded me of it. If anyone hasn't played it, it's definitely worth a go (or could just be my rose tinted nostalgia glasses talking)
Honestly I think that true isometric scenarios, with the lack of perspective, have a special beauty that top-down 3D games don't match.
And I don't really get why people don't use it, because a 3D rendering matrix can be very easily tweaked to not have any perspective and be isometric, and not just top-down.
Spin Dizzy World on the SNES was a fun game, pretty tough too.
Nox mentioned! NOX MENTIONED!
Crusader: No Remorse was one of the first games I played that I felt was very important to isometric game development
Some of the classic RPG ISOs that I love to this day that we're not mentioned:
SSIs Pool of Radiance and later (mid 2000s) Spiderweb Games with their Geneforge and Avernum series.
Spiderweb carried a torch of this old school iso look and feel with new releases to this day! I suppose you mentioned "indie" games so maybe that was enough.
Another I would put up was Robin Hood: Legend of Sherwood (But the Amiga had a lovely isometric Robin Hood game as well) as an ISO classic, nearly open world in regards to how you solved the scenarios, much like Commandos, but it added a crew management layer as well as a narrative "quest". I believe it was made by the same people who put out Desperados.
Does anyone remember AOL's Neverwinter Nights??? And Meridian 59?
I played nearly every game you mentioned!
Syndicate will hold a special place in my memories.
So much innovation in this space! ❤
It was an honor to live through the ages.
Seeing isometric games get their due makes me Head Over Heels.
Why is prince … now King Charles’s head rolling around the floor on a Roomba?
8:28 Peter Molyneux jumpscare timestamp
Army Men on PC, still wished there was a throwback to it as a CRPG or a Tactics game.
I just have to say that gaming is my greatest passion since a child (I'm 37) and I've studied it at the university, seen probably thousand of videos on youtube on gaming, read essays, blogs, etc, and to my recollection I have NEVER once heard about Knight Lore, so "considered one of the greatest games ever made"... hm... I'm curious - anyone else in a similar situation? I mean even if I'm young I've played and think I know about most old games as well if they were well-known enough to be remembered.
Awesome video, by the way. I consider isometrics my favorite type of "game", more specifically for roleplaying games (and also games like Transistor, etc, even if I don't know if they're technically isometric), whilst for platforming I prefer other vantage points.
Nox was one of the most influential games on me as a kid. I played it SO much. It's so rare to even see it mentioned, let alone praised for what a banger it truly was.
Grappling hook on warrior class! What a bonkers idea!
@GreyDeathVaccine I loved the Warrior kit so much. Playing on LAN with friends, we were doing a free for all death match, and 4 of us decided to gang up on the 5th. 3 warriors all grappled him from different sides so he couldn't actually run in any direction, and a Conjuror did a Fist of Vengeance on him while he tried his best to get away. One of the funniest gaming moments I've ever had. 😂
The earliest Isometric game on the ZX Spectrum was 3D ant attack by Sandy White in 1983. Of course, 1984's knight lore had much better graphics.