I would really love if one of your subscriber-based fans asked to grind your bed for you. Of course he needs all the fancy equipment. ❤ and maybe get a heavily reduced price. Or an awesome sing and dance shout out on a video. ❤ from my mouth to gods ears.😂
Sounds like an inherited problem for the next owner of that lathe. you will be fine leaving it. it will not be an issue for you moving forward. again you are dealing with tenths in a small area on that late
As a seasoned TH-cam commenter, it seems like the logical thing to do is to get two more identical free lathes, and then lapping the three beds together on a huge custom jig.
Should you send it for remachining: Nope Will you ever regret sending it for remachining: Nope Will you be happy if the Lathe cuts absolutly flawlessly: Absolutly!
My opinion... if that half though too big is an issue... then put some emery cloth on that part and be done with it. Besides... who's to say if you send it off that it wont have an issue somewhere else when you get it back? As always, thank you for awesome content!
@@sobertillnoonthis is ultimately what has me thinking he should and possibly will do it. He seems the type that will never be happy with good enough knowing that perfection is within reach, even at a high price
You can learn how to deal with the tiny bit of wear in the bed - assuming it will ever be an issue when machining a part. Generations of professional machinists, and hobbyists, built very precise parts on clapped out lathes.
23:00 I laughed at the wife's remark here. I'm a hobby machinist. I took a welding class at our local community college. Preparing to cut a piece of plate for my course project, I pulled out a bottle of Dykem and my layout tools to scribe my planned cuts. On seeing this, my welding instructor said, "This is why I don't like working with machinists. In my world, plus-or-minus a quarter inch is considered precision work."
@@ja-no6fx when i worked in the weld shop the boss was constantly claiming none of us could count, do math, read a tape measure etc etc, And one day we all punched in a few minutes late and he goes ballistic. Hes standing at the time clock pointing at the time, reading it out digit by digit, and pulling our paper time cards out to do the same, and finally says "you punch in when the clock reads seven zero zero DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS DO YOU UNDERSTAND THOSE NUMBERS? I looked him dead in the eye and said "what are numbers mean? I no can count." Not the maddest ive ever made him, but close to it.
Toolmaker here - you could disassemble the lathe and do an old-fashioned scraping job of the bed. Will take a while but you could get it super precise that way
and given that it's only out half a thousandths, in my experience, won't even take that long. I bet it's mostly on the dovetail sides, not the top (least bearing area there)
Having a precision lathe in the shop has a price.. having a brutally honest, smart, caring, supportive, beautiful wife in the shop…. Priceless. Another super impressive video on the books. Loved it Sir. 🍻
Machinist here that has run a HLV-H for many years at work and a 10ee at home. It’s fine, run it. If you need .0000 precision you are going to grind it with the tool post grinder anyway. It has enough stick out to keep the carriage out of that low spot.
As a machinist of almost 10 years I agree as well. Here in Poland it would cost way less, maybe $400-500 but I still wouldn't pay to flat so small portion of the bed.
But... if the carriage is riding on the same bed, even if you keep it out of the bad area, you make an even greater step between bad and good area ? Or you run it a second time the other way around to fix it ?
I have been a machinist since 1976 and have never had a job with that tight of a tolerance over a continuous length such as that bar. All the jobs I have done, whether they were long or short shafts, the tight tolerances were always confined to short segments of the shaft, so your lathe is probably going to be able to handle any job that comes through the door.
Hope all is well we havent seen you in a while .. the quality of your content is outstanding and your way of keeping us informed is second to none thank you and god bless
This style allows one to become more invested in whatever his name is. (lolz, it's me, since my stroke, proper nouns become elusive from time to time, hysterical when you can't pull your brother's name from the mush between your ears) Brandon? Never mind.
I just did all this on my recently purchased Chinese lathe that is turning out to be not so clapped out but still screwed up. Here's a couple rabbit holes I went down. I invite you to chase them on your paper weight: Try indicating the top of the tail stock quill and see if it's parallel with the bed in that axis Next, turn a test piece to the exact diameter of the tail stock quill, indicate a zero on the top of that piece and then compare to the quill top to see if the tail stock is even truly the same distance in Z from the bed. While you're at it, do the test to see if your head stock spindle center line is parallel with the bed as well. Machine a 2 inch-ish test bar sticking out about 6" from the chuck, without support from the tail stock, and see if the cut is tapered. Rabbit holes... you gotta love them!!!
14:30 - I am very confident that this bushing is preventing total annihilation of that central shaft from forces that this part experiences, pretty sure you just need to thin that busing a little instead
You guys have the best banter vibe of anyone on TH-cam! Your friendship and respect for each other shines through in every video. Keep up the good work and this healthy content. I hope that there are others in the comments section who are inspired to put out the same quality of content!
As a machinist, I look forward to the day that disassembling the lathe and sending the bed off, makes it on to the side projects tally. That will definitely be an enjoyable project to watch.
The more cameos your wife makes, the more I (and i think we all) grow to love her! She's refreshingly understanding about all of the work, time, and money you put into this hobby/profession, and her sense of humor is pretty f'in great too! 🤣😁
Half a thou is 12.7 um. That's pretty damn accurate, for the least accurate place on your lathe! And using chuck extensions to work outside the worn part of the ways is a good suggestion. I'm a programmer, not a machinist, but programmers have a saying, "you aren't gonna need it," which means don't add features until they're needed, just ship the damn product as-is. In this context, that means start doing actual projects with the lathe instead of working on the lathe itself. Further work on the lathe is meta-work, work about work, not actual work that produces actual outputs; it's the engineering equivalent of meetings about meetings, which should be minimized to avoid burnout, in favor of the projects you got the lathe for in the first place.
Better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it. Especially when the process to amend the product is a lot more onerous than opening your favorite IDE. Machining and programming aren't the same thing.
@@theKashConnoisseurThe channel content is about machining, whether the projects made for us to watch are "side projects" or main projects doesn't matter. Many of us viewers find some amusement&satisfaction from the main projects requiring side projects. If a future project requires this lathe to be made more accurate as a side project, I'm sure most of us will be happy watching it at that time.
Standard tolerance for machined parts is 10 um. If you need to machine a fit you'll need even tighter tolerances. Small deviations go a long way in machining
Brandon, in the world I live in, sub-thousandth increments very seldom make a difference. Congratulations on continually finding new ways to make your video productions enjoyable to watch!
In my years of machining I only had a handful of times where a few tenths made or broke a part. Once you get down into the tenths you have so many other variables to account for - such as tool deflection, tool wear, part setup, and thermal expansion - and contend with that you're just going to end up sneaking up on the tolerance with a handful of spring passes anyway.
i am a machinist mold maker in training and I would definitely scrape the ways. You will learn so much about true flatness its worth it for the knowledge alone
As a machinist, I admire the dedication to precision. But as an engineer, I have to say: you know where and exactly how much the problem area is, so no, don't fix it. Your question of "is this really the most accurate machine in the shop?" is a good one. If it is, stop and move on. And really, I suspect that it is, so take a step back and count your wins.
Non-Machinist, but intrigued. I would like to see the bar test on the other one anyways and if it's still more accurate than the old lathe then only send the bed if he absolutely runs into an issue with that level of precision.
A half a thousand should be within the tolerance of most precise produced products. The more precise lathe the more money spent that might never return. Spend the money on more precision tools and and high quality lathe cutting bits.
Oh my god your banter with your wife brings the biggest grin to my face! Also, she seems pretty knowledgeable and interested in what you're doing, y'all make a good power couple.
Folk are saying to live with it and saying nice things about you and your wife which is all good, but I also appreciated seeing how to analyse and correct these fundamental accuracy flaws in a lathe! Thanks.
Is the lathe bed reversible? If so, would it not be advantageous to simply remove it, and re-install it with the current headstock end of the bed swapped to the tailstock end? The odds of you ever needing to machine a part with the tailstock all the way at the end of the lathe are slimmer than the odds of you needing that last bit of precision at the headstock end.
i think the real question is whether or not the cost of resurfacing that bed is higher than the revenue you'd make filming the whole thing and showing us. -not a machinist
But you also have to factor in the cost of sending out parts to be machined on more accurate machines if he doesn't hav that accuracy at home, as well. And there's the cost of wasted materials if he accidentally scraps a project because it demanded more precision than his lathe was able to provide.
@@theKashConnoisseur Considering he's not making parts for a jet engine, I think his scrap ratio is going to be next to zero that can be blamed on the lathe. It's not about accuracy it's about the right accuracy for the job.
Machinist here. I've run a Summit and Leblonde set of lathes for about 3 years now. Honestly, if you could make a collet adapter to push your collet forward out of that low area, I wouldn't send the ways off for remachining. However, if you want a perfect lathe bed that isn't going to bug you on what is supposed to be the most precise of manual lathes, then yes, I would. Though, I will also say....if you have a part that requires +-.0001 or less taper, then you could just use the compound grinder.
A professional at work doing youtube that evolves into showing their goofy personal side into their videos as time goes on while still being professional is my favorite youtube genre
this new format with your wife taking a larger role - 🔥 Then chemistry, jokes, editing and of course the lathe are all on point - keep up the great work! and thank your for taking us on this journey with you! As for the lathe runout - I would be VERY interested in seeing you at least attempt to fix it yourself, or maybe do a collab with another machinist channel who has the appropriate tooling to do the corrections and see if you can do in on their machines or shadow then while they do it - I think it would be a really fun video.
Surface grinding the bed is what he would send it out to have done. I don’t think his surface grinder is big enough to accommodate the lathe bed. One solution may be to find another machinist TH-camr with the proper grinder to take it on as a project.
1st question: most likely not as there might be "blind holes" on the bottom to mount the bed to the base. 2nd question: i don't believe that his surface grinder has enough travel length to be able to grind the bed, but his mill might be big enough, but it would not be ideal.
@@ambsquared I think this is the winning solution. At that point, it becomes a collaboration (you can't see it, but imagine "collaboration" in rainbow-colored text) for clicks and views. Both collaborators get to share some audience that they weren't already sharing, they get content for another video (or more) each. It's pretty win-win.
It's really wonderful seeing your video style evolve, seeing more of your face as you've gained confidence, seeing more of the little errors and flubs here and there, seeing your humour come out more. It's great to see and I'm just happy I've followed you long enough to see that evolution.
Dude, you have a tool post grinder for precision work. I actually had to MAKE a real tool post grinder for our old lathe to precision grind an inner bearing race on a pinion shaft for a Harley Sportster motor. And when I say a real tool post grinder, I don't mean some lash-up using a Dremel tool in a hose clamp to the tool holder. I mean a real, 1/4 HP motorized, double pillow blocked shaft, belt driven tool post grinder, mounted on a piece of 1/2 inch plate on the compound slide, just like a store bought one. And it weighed about 50 pounds, just like the store bought one. And it worked, just like the store bought one. But since I was able to make it out of old stuff we had hanging around, it didn't COST like the store bought one. Just run it.
As a machinist for 30+yrs, if you're looking at trying to turn within 1-2 tenths on a lathe (consistently) there will be so many other variables to contend with besides just the bed wear. When trying to hold these tolerances you should be O.D./I.D. grinding them instead...much more controllable and accurate, JMHO. In my home shop, if I can hold a +.000 -.0005 on an OD part I'm super happy...unless it's a friction fit. 😂
The new format/style is working for you. I like it. Gonna reference a thing that I tell 3d printer people: What's the hobby? Making things that happen to be 3d printed, or the 3d printer itself? - If the hobby is the stuff you make, then don't send it off until it is actually necessary. You're chasing zeroes that you don't need to chase and its getting in the way of making things on that lathe. - if the hobby is the lathe itself: then sure - send it off to get the half thou of wear out of it. I, personally, wouldn't: I don't think you're going to reap that much benefit out get it remachined.
I agree with your point. I'll add that his job (not really a hobby anymore) is making videos people want to watch. So the question is do we want to watch machinery rebuilding or producing interesting parts. I think this channel's strength is the interesting parts, designed with pencil and paper. Old school work. Honoring his grandfather. Excellent explanations and comedy. That being said I'll gladly watch both!
@@ThatRobHuman I have a 3D printer and I use it to produce parts, most of which I have designed. There are other people who love to tinker with their 3D printer and only rarely use them. Each of them is 3D printer based and are two different hobbies. You said that you always tell '3D printer people' What's the hobby? The answer is both of those things are hobbies. On top of that, there are those, like me, that use 3D printers as a tool for my other hobbies. There are those that their hobby is 3D printing things. And there are those that simply like to tune their 3D printers (speed printers, etc.). Some people just use a car for work - they don't see a car as a hobby. Some folks like to race them for fun. Others like to mod the hell out of them for fun. some love to just look cool in them and spend all weekend driving around trying to get noticed.
it's really cool to see how much your wife has learned about machining just through being around you and editing your videos. IDK off camera but she sounds like someone who's awesome to bounce ideas off of.
I feel like once it’s right you will be very glad you did it the right way. If you don’t fix it, it will always be in the back of your mind. Probably literally causing you to lose sleep.
I'd run it. It's a touch closer than my two lathes here in the shop and if that 0.0005" is making or breaking a ID or OD tolerance on a one off project, you can take a quick cut on it with a fine stone or some emery cloth. I typically ID/OD grind anything that has multiple bearing surfaces that need to be held closer than +/-0.00025" as I look at lathes as mostly a +/-0.00025" process anyways. I think I'd rework that compound a little though, I'd loose sleep wondering if that compound would move on me while taking a larger cut on some hard material. Nice work!
I say, weigh the undertaking of fixing that last miniscule slop in the system. Also, is it worth it to potentially screw up in the process of improving your machine, just to handle the one hypothetical project that you could definitely just outsource to another machinist for a lone, impossibly accurate part? Loving the videos, both old and new, so keep up the great work! Speaking of format, I do like the difference in the style between full voice-over and speaking directly to the camera to distinguish between shop projects and project projects.
10year machinist here. I wouldn't send it out for resurfacing. Since the taper is so small over such a short distance, anything you can bring to size with 300+ grit sandpaper while keeping a nice surface finish. I've done it while making press pins.
It boils down to basically two things 1- will you be happy with a moderately accurate paperweight? 2- can you live peacefully knowing that imperfection is there? Never mind needing the ½ thousands precision.
I am not a machinist and i would find it annoying to know it is there. Brandon is the kind of person that would be kept up at night because he knows it is still an issue.
@@mikes78 I agree with your assessment. Therefore it seems a fair bet that we'll see an episode of IM where the moderately accurate paperweight will be made into a top notch lathe.
@@mikes78 I was a machinist, half of the art of machining is knowing how and when to lie to your machine to get the desired results. 5 tenths is easy to overcome.
But then aside from flat, it needs to be parallel in two dimensions. Since material is missing, material needs to be put back. Either on the bed where the wear is, or the tail stock that needs to ride the bed. I suspect the tailstock is also worn, but (hopefully) any wear has a consistent deviation. But if that consistent deviation means the tail stock is not straight, oh boy.... Also considering the grinding of the ID... That would be..... Bad....
@@edvig2015 What do you mean it CANNOT be scraped? That only means you need a scraper blade that is even more hardened. Maybe a nice carbide blade or something?
Honestly I miss that pre-recorded voice a lot. The vlog cutscenes are cool, but the nice narration during the machine operations was what really set your videos apart from the others. Would you consider bringing back to that style? 🥺
I see a few people saying the new style of editing/shooting is "bad" and i have to disagree completely. Your wife is a great addition to the flow of the video and a very useful narrative exploit to explain some of the technical stuff and decisions to those of us that are not of the trade. I distinctly remember dozing off a few times in some of the older videos, but these ones lately keep my attention solid for 20-30 minutes that feel like 10. Also, I feel like the majority of the people who watch your content care about your personality as much if not more than the machining itself. This just to say keep the experiment going I'm loving it
Wholly agreed. I'm here for the people first, the machining second. If I just wanted to watch chips being cut, there are countless channels with no commentary, but I'm here not there. I doubly appreciate Mrs Inheritance being an active participant.
I used DIY copper/nickel plating to fix a low spot on my Webb Mill. The nice thing is the nickel is borderline invisible after the repair. I also used it to fix a damaged sealing face on my GMC 3500 rear axle tube. Previous owner had a bearing blow out and tore up the sealing face, it took an entire day of plating/polishing/measuring but that was six years ago and it's still good. If you have a way to accurately measure your surface, you can fix it yourself, an added bonus is you can start plating your tools vs bluing them.
Honestly I would not imagine it's much of a minority. I worked in the trades and in the military, and there's a whole bunch of real "manly men" who are real nerds and watch anime etc. I am one of that number.
The jokes between you and your wife really elevate the videos. It's like how Car Talk was better for having the two of them, but with machining. I still like the interim bits where you just show what you're doing and explain it (also again, still with jokes) and it's well shot and edited, but it adds something as the framing device IMO! Nothing else like it in this youtube space.
I want to do all this stuff to my mini lathe so I can convince myself that investing in a normal sized lathe is a good idea. I kinda started small to see if I could figure things out on a small scale before figuring them out on a large one. However, I don’t know anything about anything…so, that’s something.
As a Machinist of five years now I have run into this problem of wear on the first few inches nearest the chuck on most lathes i have worked with. The most common solution is just to ignore it / work around it by using the compound slide to offset the position of the saddle on the bed away from the wear. Otherwise if you do machine on the worn spot we just end up polishing the shaft till its right. I have seen lathes be refurbished and the bed re-ground to be true but it never seems to last very long and the cost is pretty high. So in my opinion not worth it. Love the videos and wish you luck in your future projects.
I love the dynamic between you and your missus, always gives me a chuckle. As for the lathe bed, it'd be a good video to tear it down and show how it gets refinished, either by you or a specialty shop that lets you record.
I love watching you work and your descriptions, but I LOVE your interactions with your wife. She's awesome, you're awesome, and you're awesome together. Cheers on that!
It never occurred to me the height of the bed affects the tool distance from centerline. Obvious now. Your heat treating and grinding of the tail center was so cool to watch. Seeing that blue stuff come off to the shiny base under is all I care about. Just do more blue to shiny and the sheep keep watching!
Real question: are you capable of using it as is, being satisfied that the parts will be “good enough,” but also knowing that perfection is attainable, albeit with a high price? You don’t seem like the “good enough” type, and that’s why your channel is so special.
Good video. Your wife displays an informed, logical mind when discussing options for truly resolving the bed alignment issue versus machining operation work-arounds.
First of all mad respect for the amount of patience and intellect to make this old lathe good again. Long time viewer and love watching you iron things out. Second, coming from mucho hard turning experience, CBNs want small DOC. Three to five thou. Unless it’s one of those fancy CBNs w/ built in chip breakers. Ceramic inserts can typically be pushed deeper DOC and feed, but only work well if you know for a fact the material is over 58ish HRC. Way to make it work!
As someone with executive dysfunction, procrastinating and doing a bunch of minor things before suddenly getting the urge to fix every single thing at once- speaks to my soul
Gotta say, I really appreciate seeing you flounder around and make all sorts of missteps despite all your years of experience doing this stuff. It makes me feel a lot better about doing the same in my far less demanding projects. I like that we get to see the missteps and bungles. I do the same thing all the time. It's reassuring (and entertaining, since no one but me sees most of my time devouring snafus).
Just a note, when I was in the machine shops we used .0002” shim stock. Okay so it wasn’t actually sold as that. The old school points distributors… the 3/4”x1” capacitor… yep, cut that thing open, and you will find a coil of 4 layers, 2 of .0005” plastic and 2 of .00023” - .00025” aluminum.
From a perspective of a machinist -> move away from the worn spot if necessary. From a perspective of a perfectionist who loves accurate machines -> absolutely get it ground. Nothing more satisfying than knowing your equipment can do it even if you don't need them to do so
Great content, thanks for progressing through the thought process in understanding the issues and steps to correct them. Your repairs will pay dividends for years to come.
Your wife sounds lovely. She's very passionate and supportive of your job, and loves to hear about your work and progress. The teasing is great too. Lol
Watching you learn the nuances of the hardinge design is interesting. I've worked around them for years, so some of the things i never thought about are brought to light in your videos. That bushing that you took out from underneath the compound is not supposed to be the bearing surface. That bushing should only control axial movement, so when you clamp the compound down, it clamps on the bottom of the compound. As far as the bed goes, i think you're beyond the point of diminishing returns on having anything done with it. If you ever want any info on working holding, spindle mount tooling options, ideas, etc. Please reach out! There's an insane amount of options and capabilities that come with the hardinge bayonet spindle nose on that machine!
@@LikeFactoryMade The tool post grinder sicks out further towards the head stock than does regular cutting tools on the tool post. So when using the tool post grinder, the cross slide probably won't ever reach that low spot on the bed anyhow.
Must be nice to have a wife who can communicate in machine talk. I'd say live with the ever so slight deviation UNTIL it becomes a real problem with a project. THEN, either send out the project piece OR rebuild that lathe bed. Great little shop you have there!!
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looking at the title it reminds me of a dad joke 3 men walk into a bar...
the fourth one ducked
I would really love if one of your subscriber-based fans asked to grind your bed for you. Of course he needs all the fancy equipment. ❤ and maybe get a heavily reduced price. Or an awesome sing and dance shout out on a video. ❤ from my mouth to gods ears.😂
One word "Turcite"
Coming in hard with the shirt off thirst trap during the ad I see. And damn it if it didn't get me actually watch it instead of skipping past.
Sounds like an inherited problem for the next owner of that lathe. you will be fine leaving it. it will not be an issue for you moving forward. again you are dealing with tenths in a small area on that late
As a seasoned TH-cam commenter, it seems like the logical thing to do is to get two more identical free lathes, and then lapping the three beds together on a huge custom jig.
Truer words…
this is the way
LOL!
Genius.
As a seasoned TH-cam comment reader this is the first one in a long while that actually made me chuckle out loud.
The fact your wife cares and actually knows what you're talking about is the win.
I've said it before, but if her on camera persona is who she really is off camera, then he's a very lucky guy, and she's a keeper. 😏
More like Bizarre.
@@Reman1975 why do i randomly feel so so lonely
@@pvic6959 it do be like that brother
some people go together without even trying and them mfs are lucky as hell
Should you send it for remachining: Nope
Will you ever regret sending it for remachining: Nope
Will you be happy if the Lathe cuts absolutly flawlessly: Absolutly!
Will it gnaw on him for the next decade if he doesn't? Yes
Sounds like a win-win situation😅
My opinion... if that half though too big is an issue... then put some emery cloth on that part and be done with it.
Besides... who's to say if you send it off that it wont have an issue somewhere else when you get it back?
As always, thank you for awesome content!
@@sobertillnoonthis is ultimately what has me thinking he should and possibly will do it. He seems the type that will never be happy with good enough knowing that perfection is within reach, even at a high price
You can learn how to deal with the tiny bit of wear in the bed - assuming it will ever be an issue when machining a part. Generations of professional machinists, and hobbyists, built very precise parts on clapped out lathes.
23:00 I laughed at the wife's remark here. I'm a hobby machinist. I took a welding class at our local community college. Preparing to cut a piece of plate for my course project, I pulled out a bottle of Dykem and my layout tools to scribe my planned cuts. On seeing this, my welding instructor said, "This is why I don't like working with machinists. In my world, plus-or-minus a quarter inch is considered precision work."
xD
Welders cant count past 2 so its no wonder they only work to 1/4 inch
@@ja-no6fx when i worked in the weld shop the boss was constantly claiming none of us could count, do math, read a tape measure etc etc, And one day we all punched in a few minutes late and he goes ballistic. Hes standing at the time clock pointing at the time, reading it out digit by digit, and pulling our paper time cards out to do the same, and finally says "you punch in when the clock reads seven zero zero DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS DO YOU UNDERSTAND THOSE NUMBERS?
I looked him dead in the eye and said "what are numbers mean? I no can count."
Not the maddest ive ever made him, but close to it.
@@nicholastrawinski bahahah Only guy dimmer than the welder in a shop is the welding foreman :D
Same but with drywall.
Toolmaker here - you could disassemble the lathe and do an old-fashioned scraping job of the bed. Will take a while but you could get it super precise that way
and given that it's only out half a thousandths, in my experience, won't even take that long. I bet it's mostly on the dovetail sides, not the top (least bearing area there)
@@VoidedWarranty Good thinking!
Totally! And fun too!
thats the way to go
That really depends on his ability to scrape well.
Having a precision lathe in the shop has a price..
having a brutally honest, smart, caring, supportive, beautiful wife in the shop…. Priceless.
Another super impressive video on the books. Loved it Sir.
🍻
Machinist here that has run a HLV-H for many years at work and a 10ee at home. It’s fine, run it. If you need .0000 precision you are going to grind it with the tool post grinder anyway. It has enough stick out to keep the carriage out of that low spot.
This.
Machinist of 7 years and I agree!
As a machinist of almost 10 years I agree as well. Here in Poland it would cost way less, maybe $400-500 but I still wouldn't pay to flat so small portion of the bed.
You beat me to it.
But... if the carriage is riding on the same bed, even if you keep it out of the bad area, you make an even greater step between bad and good area ?
Or you run it a second time the other way around to fix it ?
I have been a machinist since 1976 and have never had a job with that tight of a tolerance over a continuous length such as that bar. All the jobs I have done, whether they were long or short shafts, the tight tolerances were always confined to short segments of the shaft, so your lathe is probably going to be able to handle any job that comes through the door.
Brandon: Do I look good
Wife: You look like you
Ouch man
Ouch doesn't do it justice. That was emasculating XD
this was fucking brilliant 😂
The love and support only a wife can give 🤣
and the immediate part after
"I only go with what looks good"
"you look good"
_flustered wife noises_
Brandon's face as it crumples....
Hope all is well we havent seen you in a while .. the quality of your content is outstanding and your way of keeping us informed is second to none thank you and god bless
I love the new intervention-style talking to the camera routine. I feel like I'm a *special* person meeting my first *special* person
Oh your special alright
Haha
Meh not so much for me tbh I prefer the voice over more
@@MrTbagsssame but still love the videos
@@ragnut-dono9089 oh yeah still love watching always look forward to the next video
This style allows one to become more invested in whatever his name is.
(lolz, it's me, since my stroke, proper nouns become elusive from time to time, hysterical when you can't pull your brother's name from the mush between your ears)
Brandon?
Never mind.
I just did all this on my recently purchased Chinese lathe that is turning out to be not so clapped out but still screwed up. Here's a couple rabbit holes I went down. I invite you to chase them on your paper weight:
Try indicating the top of the tail stock quill and see if it's parallel with the bed in that axis
Next, turn a test piece to the exact diameter of the tail stock quill, indicate a zero on the top of that piece and then compare to the quill top to see if the tail stock is even truly the same distance in Z from the bed.
While you're at it, do the test to see if your head stock spindle center line is parallel with the bed as well. Machine a 2 inch-ish test bar sticking out about 6" from the chuck, without support from the tail stock, and see if the cut is tapered.
Rabbit holes... you gotta love them!!!
I like this comment and it’s definitely content that can fit this channels attitude
14:30 - I am very confident that this bushing is preventing total annihilation of that central shaft from forces that this part experiences, pretty sure you just need to thin that busing a little instead
Put the bushing back lol it's there for a reason.
yeah, it's also what kept it centered there
kinda feels like a chesterton's bushing
100% chesterton's bushing lol
Just surface grind the thickness.
You guys have the best banter vibe of anyone on TH-cam! Your friendship and respect for each other shines through in every video. Keep up the good work and this healthy content. I hope that there are others in the comments section who are inspired to put out the same quality of content!
“Can you do the other thing too?”
“Uhhh not on camera”
😂😂😂😂
Dude, you ok? Been a month since we’ve seen you and starting to get worried.
He's gone crazy trying to get rid of that half a thou
wife must've been in charge of the project count subtitles, i love it! I giggle every time one comes up
She edits the video so probably yes.
As a machinist, I look forward to the day that disassembling the lathe and sending the bed off, makes it on to the side projects tally. That will definitely be an enjoyable project to watch.
"Why do you have stuff on the shelf where your stuff is?" Hahahahaahaha
😂
It's a workshop
@@Frank-Thoresen it's also a quote pulled directly from the video.
I loved that line lol
@@DavidGuyton I know. I heard it 😄
The more cameos your wife makes, the more I (and i think we all) grow to love her! She's refreshingly understanding about all of the work, time, and money you put into this hobby/profession, and her sense of humor is pretty f'in great too! 🤣😁
Half a thou is 12.7 um. That's pretty damn accurate, for the least accurate place on your lathe! And using chuck extensions to work outside the worn part of the ways is a good suggestion.
I'm a programmer, not a machinist, but programmers have a saying, "you aren't gonna need it," which means don't add features until they're needed, just ship the damn product as-is. In this context, that means start doing actual projects with the lathe instead of working on the lathe itself. Further work on the lathe is meta-work, work about work, not actual work that produces actual outputs; it's the engineering equivalent of meetings about meetings, which should be minimized to avoid burnout, in favor of the projects you got the lathe for in the first place.
Better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it. Especially when the process to amend the product is a lot more onerous than opening your favorite IDE. Machining and programming aren't the same thing.
YAGNI
KISS, keep it as simple as possible, but not any simpler.
@@theKashConnoisseurThe channel content is about machining, whether the projects made for us to watch are "side projects" or main projects doesn't matter. Many of us viewers find some amusement&satisfaction from the main projects requiring side projects.
If a future project requires this lathe to be made more accurate as a side project, I'm sure most of us will be happy watching it at that time.
Standard tolerance for machined parts is 10 um. If you need to machine a fit you'll need even tighter tolerances. Small deviations go a long way in machining
22:45 That chuck's pretty big actually. Some might even say it's huge 🥲
Brandon, in the world I live in, sub-thousandth increments very seldom make a difference. Congratulations on continually finding new ways to make your video productions enjoyable to watch!
In my years of machining I only had a handful of times where a few tenths made or broke a part. Once you get down into the tenths you have so many other variables to account for - such as tool deflection, tool wear, part setup, and thermal expansion - and contend with that you're just going to end up sneaking up on the tolerance with a handful of spring passes anyway.
i am a machinist mold maker in training and I would definitely scrape the ways. You will learn so much about true flatness its worth it for the knowledge alone
As a machinist, I admire the dedication to precision. But as an engineer, I have to say: you know where and exactly how much the problem area is, so no, don't fix it. Your question of "is this really the most accurate machine in the shop?" is a good one. If it is, stop and move on. And really, I suspect that it is, so take a step back and count your wins.
also from a project management standpoint, what's the goal? Have you defined what Done is? If you do that, you know exactly when it's good enough.
Non-Machinist, but intrigued. I would like to see the bar test on the other one anyways and if it's still more accurate than the old lathe then only send the bed if he absolutely runs into an issue with that level of precision.
A half a thousand should be within the tolerance of most precise produced products.
The more precise lathe the more money spent that might never return.
Spend the money on more precision tools and and high quality lathe cutting bits.
Hope we get an update soon!! Cant wait.
Please do a competition between the two lathes! It must be an epic battle-there can be only one!
There can be only one...for that particular size job ;)
Imagine edit those cuts like battle bots.
this!
I can't wait to see how this...turns out!
Who ever edits these is having WAY too much fun, keep it up.
His wife. She's amazing.
Oh my god your banter with your wife brings the biggest grin to my face! Also, she seems pretty knowledgeable and interested in what you're doing, y'all make a good power couple.
She sounds like an engineer to me, and I absolutely love the banter!
Editing them, she's basically seen all of his videos 20 times, including unused footage.
Folk are saying to live with it and saying nice things about you and your wife which is all good, but I also appreciated seeing how to analyse and correct these fundamental accuracy flaws in a lathe! Thanks.
Is the lathe bed reversible? If so, would it not be advantageous to simply remove it, and re-install it with the current headstock end of the bed swapped to the tailstock end? The odds of you ever needing to machine a part with the tailstock all the way at the end of the lathe are slimmer than the odds of you needing that last bit of precision at the headstock end.
Man, you're getting so damn good at this. Thank you, this has become my favorite show on any platform. Fellow engineer, big fan.
Editor wife is killing it with the text
that drill press hardening contraption is brilliant! cracked me up real hard too
i think the real question is whether or not the cost of resurfacing that bed is higher than the revenue you'd make filming the whole thing and showing us. -not a machinist
That's a real good point. - also not a machinist.
But you also have to factor in the cost of sending out parts to be machined on more accurate machines if he doesn't hav that accuracy at home, as well. And there's the cost of wasted materials if he accidentally scraps a project because it demanded more precision than his lathe was able to provide.
That's the real question
@@theKashConnoisseurbut his Box of Shame needs to be fed sometimes too!
@@theKashConnoisseur Considering he's not making parts for a jet engine, I think his scrap ratio is going to be next to zero that can be blamed on the lathe. It's not about accuracy it's about the right accuracy for the job.
Just want to say I like this “new” format of video.
I always enjoy a live lecture over someone’s scripted reading of the information.
Machinist here. I've run a Summit and Leblonde set of lathes for about 3 years now.
Honestly, if you could make a collet adapter to push your collet forward out of that low area, I wouldn't send the ways off for remachining. However, if you want a perfect lathe bed that isn't going to bug you on what is supposed to be the most precise of manual lathes, then yes, I would. Though, I will also say....if you have a part that requires +-.0001 or less taper, then you could just use the compound grinder.
bet the collets themselves
contribute to a surprising amount of error too!
A professional at work doing youtube that evolves into showing their goofy personal side into their videos as time goes on while still being professional is my favorite youtube genre
this new format with your wife taking a larger role - 🔥
Then chemistry, jokes, editing and of course the lathe are all on point - keep up the great work! and thank your for taking us on this journey with you!
As for the lathe runout - I would be VERY interested in seeing you at least attempt to fix it yourself, or maybe do a collab with another machinist channel who has the appropriate tooling to do the corrections and see if you can do in on their machines or shadow then while they do it - I think it would be a really fun video.
~20:20 "Does the tail-stock quill being out that far affect the rigidity?" It must be great to have an editor who understands the work you do!
Question: Can you flip the bed around?
Question: Can you surface grind the bed?
I second that question. Can you reverse the orientation of the bed, moving the worn out part to the end? Can you cut the bed?
Surface grinding the bed is what he would send it out to have done. I don’t think his surface grinder is big enough to accommodate the lathe bed. One solution may be to find another machinist TH-camr with the proper grinder to take it on as a project.
1st question: most likely not as there might be "blind holes" on the bottom to mount the bed to the base.
2nd question: i don't believe that his surface grinder has enough travel length to be able to grind the bed, but his mill might be big enough, but it would not be ideal.
Or could you shift the working area if you cant flib the bed
@@ambsquared I think this is the winning solution. At that point, it becomes a collaboration (you can't see it, but imagine "collaboration" in rainbow-colored text) for clicks and views. Both collaborators get to share some audience that they weren't already sharing, they get content for another video (or more) each. It's pretty win-win.
It's really wonderful seeing your video style evolve, seeing more of your face as you've gained confidence, seeing more of the little errors and flubs here and there, seeing your humour come out more. It's great to see and I'm just happy I've followed you long enough to see that evolution.
Dude, you have a tool post grinder for precision work. I actually had to MAKE a real tool post grinder for our old lathe to precision grind an inner bearing race on a pinion shaft for a Harley Sportster motor. And when I say a real tool post grinder, I don't mean some lash-up using a Dremel tool in a hose clamp to the tool holder. I mean a real, 1/4 HP motorized, double pillow blocked shaft, belt driven tool post grinder, mounted on a piece of 1/2 inch plate on the compound slide, just like a store bought one. And it weighed about 50 pounds, just like the store bought one. And it worked, just like the store bought one. But since I was able to make it out of old stuff we had hanging around, it didn't COST like the store bought one.
Just run it.
Is that for the inner pinion race on a 3 piece flywheel?
As a machinist for 30+yrs, if you're looking at trying to turn within 1-2 tenths on a lathe (consistently) there will be so many other variables to contend with besides just the bed wear. When trying to hold these tolerances you should be O.D./I.D. grinding them instead...much more controllable and accurate, JMHO. In my home shop, if I can hold a +.000 -.0005 on an OD part I'm super happy...unless it's a friction fit. 😂
The new format/style is working for you. I like it.
Gonna reference a thing that I tell 3d printer people: What's the hobby? Making things that happen to be 3d printed, or the 3d printer itself?
- If the hobby is the stuff you make, then don't send it off until it is actually necessary. You're chasing zeroes that you don't need to chase and its getting in the way of making things on that lathe.
- if the hobby is the lathe itself: then sure - send it off to get the half thou of wear out of it.
I, personally, wouldn't: I don't think you're going to reap that much benefit out get it remachined.
They are two different hobbies.
@@KnugLidi and?
I agree with your point. I'll add that his job (not really a hobby anymore) is making videos people want to watch. So the question is do we want to watch machinery rebuilding or producing interesting parts. I think this channel's strength is the interesting parts, designed with pencil and paper. Old school work. Honoring his grandfather. Excellent explanations and comedy. That being said I'll gladly watch both!
@@ThatRobHuman I have a 3D printer and I use it to produce parts, most of which I have designed. There are other people who love to tinker with their 3D printer and only rarely use them. Each of them is 3D printer based and are two different hobbies. You said that you always tell '3D printer people' What's the hobby? The answer is both of those things are hobbies. On top of that, there are those, like me, that use 3D printers as a tool for my other hobbies. There are those that their hobby is 3D printing things. And there are those that simply like to tune their 3D printers (speed printers, etc.). Some people just use a car for work - they don't see a car as a hobby. Some folks like to race them for fun. Others like to mod the hell out of them for fun. some love to just look cool in them and spend all weekend driving around trying to get noticed.
@@KnugLidi That's my point: they are separate hobbies. So which one is he going for?
it's really cool to see how much your wife has learned about machining just through being around you and editing your videos. IDK off camera but she sounds like someone who's awesome to bounce ideas off of.
8:33, I admire the attempt.
I feel like once it’s right you will be very glad you did it the right way. If you don’t fix it, it will always be in the back of your mind. Probably literally causing you to lose sleep.
I'd run it. It's a touch closer than my two lathes here in the shop and if that 0.0005" is making or breaking a ID or OD tolerance on a one off project, you can take a quick cut on it with a fine stone or some emery cloth. I typically ID/OD grind anything that has multiple bearing surfaces that need to be held closer than +/-0.00025" as I look at lathes as mostly a +/-0.00025" process anyways. I think I'd rework that compound a little though, I'd loose sleep wondering if that compound would move on me while taking a larger cut on some hard material. Nice work!
Gonna say it again, love the *talking to the camera* format compared to the narration. 10/10 contect reguardles
I say, weigh the undertaking of fixing that last miniscule slop in the system. Also, is it worth it to potentially screw up in the process of improving your machine, just to handle the one hypothetical project that you could definitely just outsource to another machinist for a lone, impossibly accurate part? Loving the videos, both old and new, so keep up the great work! Speaking of format, I do like the difference in the style between full voice-over and speaking directly to the camera to distinguish between shop projects and project projects.
10year machinist here.
I wouldn't send it out for resurfacing. Since the taper is so small over such a short distance, anything you can bring to size with 300+ grit sandpaper while keeping a nice surface finish. I've done it while making press pins.
It boils down to basically two things
1- will you be happy with a moderately accurate paperweight?
2- can you live peacefully knowing that imperfection is there?
Never mind needing the ½ thousands precision.
I am not a machinist and i would find it annoying to know it is there. Brandon is the kind of person that would be kept up at night because he knows it is still an issue.
@@mikes78 I agree with your assessment. Therefore it seems a fair bet that we'll see an episode of IM where the moderately accurate paperweight will be made into a top notch lathe.
@@mikes78 I was a machinist, half of the art of machining is knowing how and when to lie to your machine to get the desired results. 5 tenths is easy to overcome.
Your ad reads are amazing. I have never been compelled to skip them on account of how creative and fun they are.
Honestly seeing scraping in precision of the bed in the home shop would be so cool
But then aside from flat, it needs to be parallel in two dimensions.
Since material is missing, material needs to be put back. Either on the bed where the wear is, or the tail stock that needs to ride the bed.
I suspect the tailstock is also worn, but (hopefully) any wear has a consistent deviation. But if that consistent deviation means the tail stock is not straight, oh boy.... Also considering the grinding of the ID... That would be..... Bad....
The bed is hardened- it cannot be scraped
@@edvig2015 What do you mean it CANNOT be scraped? That only means you need a scraper blade that is even more hardened. Maybe a nice carbide blade or something?
Honestly I miss that pre-recorded voice a lot. The vlog cutscenes are cool, but the nice narration during the machine operations was what really set your videos apart from the others.
Would you consider bringing back to that style? 🥺
I see a few people saying the new style of editing/shooting is "bad" and i have to disagree completely. Your wife is a great addition to the flow of the video and a very useful narrative exploit to explain some of the technical stuff and decisions to those of us that are not of the trade. I distinctly remember dozing off a few times in some of the older videos, but these ones lately keep my attention solid for 20-30 minutes that feel like 10. Also, I feel like the majority of the people who watch your content care about your personality as much if not more than the machining itself. This just to say keep the experiment going I'm loving it
perfectly said
Wholly agreed. I'm here for the people first, the machining second. If I just wanted to watch chips being cut, there are countless channels with no commentary, but I'm here not there.
I doubly appreciate Mrs Inheritance being an active participant.
She is not boring. I like this addition.
I used DIY copper/nickel plating to fix a low spot on my Webb Mill. The nice thing is the nickel is borderline invisible after the repair. I also used it to fix a damaged sealing face on my GMC 3500 rear axle tube. Previous owner had a bearing blow out and tore up the sealing face, it took an entire day of plating/polishing/measuring but that was six years ago and it's still good. If you have a way to accurately measure your surface, you can fix it yourself, an added bonus is you can start plating your tools vs bluing them.
19:52 - "Do the thing" Was that a Korra/Julie reference? I predict I am in a minority enjoying animated "kids" TV Shows and Machining TH-cam channels.
If you're in the minority, I'm there with you. Haha
Honestly I would not imagine it's much of a minority. I worked in the trades and in the military, and there's a whole bunch of real "manly men" who are real nerds and watch anime etc. I am one of that number.
The jokes between you and your wife really elevate the videos. It's like how Car Talk was better for having the two of them, but with machining. I still like the interim bits where you just show what you're doing and explain it (also again, still with jokes) and it's well shot and edited, but it adds something as the framing device IMO! Nothing else like it in this youtube space.
I want to do all this stuff to my mini lathe so I can convince myself that investing in a normal sized lathe is a good idea. I kinda started small to see if I could figure things out on a small scale before figuring them out on a large one. However, I don’t know anything about anything…so, that’s something.
Sounds like a sure shot road to success 👍 (not being ironic here)
Admitting you know nothing is the best starting point!
I have a mini-lathe too. Great machine to learn on. Can't get away with doing things the wrong way, but when you do it right, it works decent.
As a Machinist of five years now I have run into this problem of wear on the first few inches nearest the chuck on most lathes i have worked with. The most common solution is just to ignore it / work around it by using the compound slide to offset the position of the saddle on the bed away from the wear. Otherwise if you do machine on the worn spot we just end up polishing the shaft till its right.
I have seen lathes be refurbished and the bed re-ground to be true but it never seems to last very long and the cost is pretty high. So in my opinion not worth it.
Love the videos and wish you luck in your future projects.
i really like you goofing off more in your videos
I love the dynamic between you and your missus, always gives me a chuckle.
As for the lathe bed, it'd be a good video to tear it down and show how it gets refinished, either by you or a specialty shop that lets you record.
"ow ffffffffidlesticks... f**k" im dead🤣
I love watching you work and your descriptions, but I LOVE your interactions with your wife. She's awesome, you're awesome, and you're awesome together. Cheers on that!
19:55 ...sir and MA'AM!!?! IN THE SHOP?!?! Scandalous!
It never occurred to me the height of the bed affects the tool distance from centerline. Obvious now. Your heat treating and grinding of the tail center was so cool to watch. Seeing that blue stuff come off to the shiny base under is all I care about. Just do more blue to shiny and the sheep keep watching!
Real question: are you capable of using it as is, being satisfied that the parts will be “good enough,” but also knowing that perfection is attainable, albeit with a high price? You don’t seem like the “good enough” type, and that’s why your channel is so special.
One also has to consider whether one's retirement will be "good enough" if one keeps spending money chasing unnecessary perfection.
Good video.
Your wife displays an informed, logical mind when discussing options for truly resolving the bed alignment issue versus machining operation work-arounds.
20:15
"What are you looking for"
"My _wife_ center" ?!
First of all mad respect for the amount of patience and intellect to make this old lathe good again. Long time viewer and love watching you iron things out.
Second, coming from mucho hard turning experience, CBNs want small DOC. Three to five thou. Unless it’s one of those fancy CBNs w/ built in chip breakers.
Ceramic inserts can typically be pushed deeper DOC and feed, but only work well if you know for a fact the material is over 58ish HRC. Way to make it work!
I chuckled at the hatchet. Keep it up.
Always impressed at how smooth he turns the tool movement wheels, so satisfying
As someone with executive dysfunction, procrastinating and doing a bunch of minor things before suddenly getting the urge to fix every single thing at once-
speaks to my soul
Gotta say, I really appreciate seeing you flounder around and make all sorts of missteps despite all your years of experience doing this stuff. It makes me feel a lot better about doing the same in my far less demanding projects. I like that we get to see the missteps and bungles. I do the same thing all the time. It's reassuring (and entertaining, since no one but me sees most of my time devouring snafus).
….walks in to a bar, patiently awaits its TURN
😬
Just a note, when I was in the machine shops we used .0002” shim stock. Okay so it wasn’t actually sold as that.
The old school points distributors…
the 3/4”x1” capacitor… yep, cut that thing open, and you will find a coil of 4 layers, 2 of .0005” plastic and 2 of .00023” - .00025” aluminum.
From a perspective of a machinist -> move away from the worn spot if necessary. From a perspective of a perfectionist who loves accurate machines -> absolutely get it ground. Nothing more satisfying than knowing your equipment can do it even if you don't need them to do so
Drill press spinning hardening and quenching rig is just magical
I mean, if it intimidates you - it will DEFINITELY intimidate me
I love your channel so much, but this... the pacing, the interaction... this is my favorite episode so far in this whole project
Oh my gods, you two are relationship goals. I need to find a guy that I can joke around with like that.
Good luck finding one who looks like himself and manages to look good doing it.
Great content, thanks for progressing through the thought process in understanding the issues and steps to correct them. Your repairs will pay dividends for years to come.
... The bartender asks, "Turning around for a drink?"
Nah I'm just bored
Your wife sounds lovely.
She's very passionate and supportive of your job, and loves to hear about your work and progress. The teasing is great too. Lol
Fantastically clever icogni(toe) pun!! 😆 🤣
very *sneaky* 😁
Oh, and the video was nice too 🤗
Watching you learn the nuances of the hardinge design is interesting. I've worked around them for years, so some of the things i never thought about are brought to light in your videos. That bushing that you took out from underneath the compound is not supposed to be the bearing surface. That bushing should only control axial movement, so when you clamp the compound down, it clamps on the bottom of the compound.
As far as the bed goes, i think you're beyond the point of diminishing returns on having anything done with it. If you ever want any info on working holding, spindle mount tooling options, ideas, etc. Please reach out! There's an insane amount of options and capabilities that come with the hardinge bayonet spindle nose on that machine!
+1 to "can you just flip the bed around"
Probably not. If I remember correctly, the belt drive comes up through the bed. So, it only fits on one way.
The banter in the last few minutes was worth every bit of the video and all of the side projects.
Hello from Durban South Africa. Keep up the great content.
Another great video. Love the banter between you and your wife. She really adds so much in editing.
if you need anything to be sub thousandth tolerances, you have a surface grinder!
Problem is the length of it, his grinder doesn't have that kind of travel.
He also has a tool post grinder
@@jrmintz1 Which will also follow the path of a worn out bed..
He also has another lathe to use!
@@LikeFactoryMade The tool post grinder sicks out further towards the head stock than does regular cutting tools on the tool post. So when using the tool post grinder, the cross slide probably won't ever reach that low spot on the bed anyhow.
The fact that "top commentary" are about the moment your wife talk in the video is an answer 😁
And good job making it so tiny
ze lathe, ze craig, but where where are... ZE MISSILES
Hokay so......
I am le tired
i love seeing the interactions between you and the missus. oh to be excited for something AND your partner actually understands
"Do I look good?"
"You look like you"
The shade of it all!!
Must be nice to have a wife who can communicate in machine talk. I'd say live with the ever so slight deviation UNTIL it becomes a real problem with a project. THEN, either send out the project piece OR rebuild that lathe bed. Great little shop you have there!!
as an amateur woodworker, that run out is fine.
As an amateur woodworker, I'm with his wife - 1/4" is just fine. 😂
@@Juffington She certainly sounds like a structural engineer...