I've always depised the makeover trope, where an already gorgeous girl is given frumpy clothes, glasses or a ponytail, and nobody realises her "True Beauty" until the big reveal. One of the tropes that "Not Another Teen Movie" brilliantly parodied.
Agreed. Every time I see that I think “The fact that beauty is subjective and 80% of the world finds it hard to get that through their heads absolutely baffles me”
I want to see the trope done with what really happens. . . Gets make over and people are still a*****s but they get some back handed compliments here and there.
I think the worst romcom trope is the whole “persistence will get you the girl” thing. The main example that comes to mind is the notebook. He keeps asking her out and asking her out, she keeps saying no. Very firm in her answer. Then, only accepts when he threatens to jump off of a Ferris wheel to harm himself. That kind of thing is not romantic, especially in real life.
@MrAranton a good rule of thumb is to take someone at their word. If someone says no to a date, take it as a no. If you’re concerned about someone “testing” you, is that really someone you’d want to start a relationship with? I’d prefer someone to say what they mean and leave tests and games out of it.
@@lindseystein9676 How often did you initiate romantic interactions with a woman? How often have you dated women? I guess the answer to both is zero times, because had you ever done either, you'd know how insanity-inducingly ambiguous women can be in these matters. Besides: Even if she says "no", that doesn't mean it's going to be forever a no. She might have said no because the man caught in a bad mood or at a bad time and might enthusiastically say yes should he ask again under different circumstances. But this is not information women tend to volunteer, so men need to guess whether a no is a hard no or a no that can be turned into a yes. In the video Jonathan and Allan briefly talked about a man who had a laundry list of expectations. Women have those, too. If you check what women write into dating profiles (things like "if you're shorter than 180cm, I'm not interested, so don't bother to try"), you'll see a lot of them rule out like 95% of the male population before they even talked to them. So: If you're an avarage dude, always respect a no and never try to turn it into a yes, your prospects in the dating world are pretty grim. Most women have no clue what it means live life as a man. If you tell men to take women at their word when they say no, you're essentially telling the vast majority of them to stay lonely. Don't get me wrong: I hate the "persistence will get you the girl trope" too. And I do so with a passion; but for different reasons. Most rom-coms I've watched can be summed up like this: "Man falls in love for no apparant reason, she treats him like shit until she doesn't which is considered the happy end and until then he makes a complete and utter fool of himself." Such plots cannot lead to equitable relationships, a woman who accepted a man based on how he bent over backwards to please her even though she acted like a complete and utter cunt towards him, will always see herself as a princess and him as a serf. These movies were not about love or romance, they were female power fantasies, that objectify men at least as badly as movies featuring a harem full of nearly naked females at a man's disposal objectify women. Yet for some reason the former is widely accepted while the latter is consider smutty and frowned upon. And because Romcoms are acceptable, they influence how women approach dating and relationships with men. All I'm saying is: "Ladies, forget that shit, accept that we are human beings, cut us the according and give us an actual chance." and "Gents: Get a back-bone and don't put up with cunty behaviour while dating, or you'll end up being her doormat."
You’re right, I don’t know what it’s like to be a man, but I have asked out and dated a few women before. Luckily I never encountered ones you’re describing. Of course people have expectations, they’re just usually not the shallow examples you’re pointing out. Sure, there are some women who prefer a man taller than her, but it’s really not as militant as you’re portraying. The examples you’re pointing out are definitely in the minority of women. Most women (and people in general) just want someone who isn’t an as*hole, is funny, caring, someone attractive to them (which is very subjective), honest, has job or goal they’re working towards. The women you’re describing who have exact height requirements and play games/“test” men are outliers. It’s more of a movie trope in itself, but some do exist. Honestly, you will piss off and creep out more women by ignoring their ‘no’s’ and keep asking. Again, why would you want a shallow partner like that? Someone who has height requirements, “tests”, or has income requirements are really not the way to go, no matter what they look like. There are plenty of non shallow women out there who would be more than happy with an “average” man.
My least favorite trope: The miscommunication that could have been clarified in 10 seconds, but is now the basis for the near end of movie break-up, because two adult people are not mature enough to have a damn conversation.
Who in this day and age knows how to have a conversation?! People are supposed to just know what I'm thinking without needing me to spell it out! (and how I wish this comment was thoroughly sarcastic, but I have the misfortune to know too many people like that...)
Been doing search and rescue for 7 years now and only once did I ever encounter a wolf and woman at the same time. Not only was this very much not the time to ask her out, (She had just been lost in the woods for 3 days and had a near death experience) but honestly the whole wolf pack wasn't very interested in us other than we were making a lot of noise, and they were trying to sleep.
I once read this text post that basically said: "The way love triangles are often written is kind of bad because it's two people backing someone into a corner, and it's usually a woman." Blew my mind.
Yup. It almost always involves two people of the same gender (often dudes, though not always) laying 'claim' to their romantic interest and NEVER EVER EVER ASKING WHAT THEY WANT OR RESPECTING THEM ENOUGH TO BACK OFF AND LET THEM DECIDE.
@@DimaRakesah what I've seen a bunch of times is the "we both love you, and even though you never thought about (at least) one of us that way, you have to decide now"... And she always chooses the dude she didn't even like romantically in the first place... And there was no shift in perspective, nothing...
The "love corner" or "love angle", is absolutely horrible... The (or rather my assumed) reason we don't see a real love triangle in common media is because it'd involve some level of queerness, which the cinema isn't ready for apparently...
@@DimaRakesah thats one of the things i respected about the note book - i mean theres misogyny in the movie 100% not the best romantic reference but when shes choosing between the two, both men respected her decision and understood that it was up to her to make that call.
I didn’t realize how bland Eric was until I watched the Broadway version of the little mermaid where he seems more sincere as they actually spend time together, he teaches Ariel how to dance so they can bond without words, and he was still chasing this voice throughout the story, but they had a different climax where there’s a singing contest to win Eric’s hand in marriage, and Ariel rushes in and is gonna be escorted out while everyone else laughs because they know she can’t compete, but then Eric stops them and is like “No wait, go ahead” and she does the little dance step they did together and he realizes he’s been looking in the wrong places and wants to be with her, and when he announces her as the winner Ursula tries to use Ariel’s voice in the distance to lure him away, but he chooses to dismiss it and run to Ariel for the almost before sunset but not quite kiss, and movie Eric could’ve been at least a little better, that is all
The movie Eric was dumb and needed fish to sing to him - it's the best song of the movie but "Kiss the Girl" was something that she could have communicated with body language if Ariel had been listening to Ursula at all.
I like how in the original non disney version of The Little Mermaid she goes through the transformation for the prince to still choose another girl. Her sisters response to this is 'kill him'. Seems more legit and true to life.
In all fairness, they were telling her to kill him so she could turn back into a mermaid and not have to turn into sea foam. As a kid I was always so annoyed that she didn’t kill him. I thought that would’ve been a pretty nifty twist
But she rather let herself die, or better become an "air spirit" and help poor souls for 300 years to earn going to heaven. She couldn't hurt the prince because she loved him and he was happy. He was kind to her but only saw her as a friend or a ward. Also, the story is an allegory of Andersen's omosexuality. He was probably in love with a man who ended up marrying a woman.
I love telling people this story: My parents HATED each other when they first met. They worked at the same college, my dad in the cafeteria and my mum in the registrar, and one of my mum's benifits was that she could have free drinks from the cafeteria, but my dad was new and didnt know this, so when she came in to grab a coke and leave, he said "are you going to pay for that?" and she said, "hmm nope," and then just left. For like 2 months after that, they couldnt stand each other. He thought she was this lawless b*tch, and she thought he was uptight and a jerk. Then my dad was talking to his buddy about a redhead that worked up in the admin office, and the buddy THOUGHT he was talking about my mum, but he wasnt. Anyway, they get set up on a date by the buddy, get there for the movie and dinner, and he is... shocked, to say the least. My mum was like, "why is this prick asking me out? Whatever. Free dinner." And dad was like, "wait, this is the wrong redhead!" Long story short, they ended up going dancing after the dinner and they had a bit of fun, did a few more dates where they started to tolerate each other, and then were married 3 months after the first date. They have been married for almost 30 years now and they get on great, most of the time. They still argue a lot over petty stuff, but they do ultimately enjoy each other's company.
Gotta admit, I've got a soft spot for the "enemies to lovers" story, but only if there's a "platonic friendship" stage in between. Also, it works a lot better in series where you have more time for them to sort out their differences and slowly start to connect.
I'm always more okay with this trope if they earn it. Give me some time to watch them, let them actually talk and grow, THEN they can be lovers or partners. And just one scene doesn't count lol
In my opinion, there’s two types of enemies to lovers: one is ‘opposing people learn how to reconcile their differences and then build a relationship from that’, and the other is ‘you are a horrible person but you have a great ass so I’m going to do a ton of unreciprocated emotional labor to “make” you change even though you treat me like shit, and this will somehow work out in the end’. One of them is an interesting and sometimes heartwarming plot, the other is abuse mentality with a pretty coat of paint.
I love Princess Bubblegum's take on love at first sight: "“What you're feeling is called infatuation. The pain is the product of you overvaluing a projected, imaginary relationship with me.”"
Talking about great romantic cartoon moments, Gravity Falls has FANTASTIC romantic arcs that taught me really important lessons that spared me a lot of awkwardness in my pre-teen and teenager years. The scene I love the most has to be the rejection between Wendy and Dipper. Rejections are usually like the worst thing that can happen to a character and their portrayed like these apocalyptic events that will completely ruin the character's life. Gravity Falls rejects this notion and shows that just because someone rejects you it doesn't mean that the world's over, or that you need to stop being friends with them. And to top it all of, Dipper teaches this lesson to Gideon by the end of the series. "If I've learned anything this summer, it's that you can't force someone else to love you". Gravity Falls is my favorite animated series, it has amazing lore and worldbuilding, hidden codes and subliminal messages, really creative and original concepts, but it also has really important emotional lessons that other shows didn't really dive to deep into. I love that series.
@@qwertydavid8070 Gravity Falls is amazing! I want Cinema Therapy to cover the Dipper/Wendy dynamic. It's so beautiful animated overall that Alan might enjoy it as well.
@@qwertydavid8070 omg Gravity Falls was so good but that moment was AMAZING! I loved it so much, so many kids cartoons would have the crush of the main character... when the characters are practically Toddlers?! So seeing a healthy rejection and dealing with it was so great. Wendy is one of my fave chars
The best "makeover" handling was in Nanny McPhee: scullery maid Evangeline gets a makeover and nobody recognises her - except Cedric, who already loved her and says "She's always looked like that."
I also liked how it wasn’t to change her to change her. It was to prevent their sibling(s) from being taken away. People of a certain status have to dress and speak a certain way. Being with their aunt allowed her to have the education she wanted, but she stayed true to who she was.
The thing with Grease is, Danny actually *did* start to do his own transformation and become a more real person for Sandy. He started getting to the point where he no longer wanted to keep putting on this facade for his friends and be more honest with himself and those around him. But then the movie does a 180 on this soon as Sandy changes herself at the end (which if they had just kept going with Danny's change, Sandy's would've been unnecessary and they both would be in a more honest relationship), and they basically just threw all of that development for him out the window.
I find the ending of Grease so frustrating because it’s so close to a great resolution: Sandy and Danny both try to completely change for one another, realize this when they see each other, then laugh and resolve to stop worrying about how everyone else sees them and just be their genuine selves, restarting their relationship from a place of honesty and self-confidence… But no, instead Danny takes one look at leather-pants Sandy, decides that her being the one to completely change is great actually, and immediately reverts back to his cool-guy persona. He tears off his white jersey and tosses it aside, and then moments later we see him back in his trademark leather jacket, with Sandy hanging off his arm from the passenger seat of his car as he drives off, the coolest kid in school who has learned absolutely nothing about self-worth.
I would have to add that they both changed but people focus on Sandy - he is wearing a knit gardigan or whatever it's called and boys pick on him for wearing that. I believe that's why Sandy says "tell me about it, studd" as she notices that she also changed. I think it goes unnoticed because he didn't do a dramatic change and also takes off the gardigan for the dance scene.
Fun fact about Matthew McConaughey: he was so sick of doing rom-com acting that he took a multi-year hiatus and refused dozens of offers because he was ONLY offered rom-com movie leads. He waited until he was offered anything outside of the genre.
@@prince_nocturne Good point, I could imagine that some characters are fun to play again and again - some nerdy scientist ending up in an adventure, a soldier being forced to face the inglorious financial interests behind the war he's fighting ... anything but not something so predictable and repetitive as "rom-com hero"; you might just as well play the exact same character over and over.
"I’ve become skeptical of the unwritten rule that just because a boy and girl appear in the same feature, a romance must ensue. Rather, I want to portray a slightly different relationship, one where the two mutually inspire each other to live - if I’m able to, then perhaps I’ll be closer to portraying a true expression of love." - Hayao Miyazaki. Love is not just an emotion. Love is a promise, a promise help each other, not hurt each other. (Paraphrasing from Doctor Who)
@Day I think you have a point because I doubted her intentions as well but I think of married couples that are really toxic but there is still lots of love with that. I think people just have personalities that don't help them out when it comes to love but they still love regardless.
A big romantic gesture for me was when I told my partner, during conversations over the years that we'd been together, that I did not want to be proposed to in public. I did NOT want a big song and dance and I really disliked it when the parents are asked for permission *barf*. One morning about a year ago I woke up to my guy kneeling beside the bed with a ring. When he asked me to marry him I was comfy, cosy and warm in our bed. I said yes, and then I asked him to marry me. He said yes too. He told my family beforehand what he was going to do. It was respectful, a courtesy, but it wasn't seeking permission. It was perfect.
I can relate to this. My husband proposed to me in our livingroom with no one around and it was such a relief. I hate being the center of attention and big romantic gestures make me feel awkward.
Lovely! I also would not want a public proposal. It's like inflicting public peer pressure on the one being proposed to. What if you feel pressured to say yes just so you don't embarrass them?
My sister once said that public proposals should be considered a type of hostage situation and I can’t help but agree 😂 Your spouse’s way sounds way sweeter!
I had an experience having highly disliked someone that turned into a romantic interest. I started a new job. This guy was assigned to help me with something. He was so horrible and nasty the whole time, and apparently thought I was too bubbly and I got on his nerves. So we severely didn't like each other. Until one evening I was working late at my end of the office and didn't know he was working late in his workspace at the other end of the office, so I had my music up and was singing to the top of my lungs. He comes walking in with a smirk and we just started chatting. Turns out the song I was singing was his literal favorite song and he was drawn to come see who was singing. Then he saw I had a picture of my favorite artist at the time, Garth Brooks, on my screen saver who was one of his favorite artists. Turns out his mom had died just days before I started at the job. So my perky was clashing with his grieving and that's why his attitude was so bad at that time. He was actually a really nice, sweet guy and I liked him a lot. We didn't end up together; but, it felt like a seismic shift at the time. 😊
This story serves as a proof to what I thought about this "haters to lovers" trope after watching the video. It can easily turn into love if the hate was based on false facts, lies and misperceptions. Which happened in your story. The one moment when there is no chance to turn into lovers is when "the hate" is based on a factual material and you absolutely can't stand the things, and these things are cemented into other person's personality, so they are not some accidental things that can happen to any of us in our long lived lives, they are reality.
To give some credit to the animated Beauty and the Beast, the wolf attack scene is not there to serve as a romantic gesture, but for Beast to act in an altruistic, selfless way for the first time in the movie. And it doesn’t cause Belle to fall in love with him, but to see him as a human rather than a monster. A flawed human for sure, and he has much more work to do before anything close to a romantic connection can happen, but it’s the first step on his journey in the film.
I don't know about that. Right before that scene she goes into the west wing, he screams at her to get out and she leaves the castle. Not just the wing. He chases after her, probably to drag her back there. The wolf attack was a lucky break for Beast. That doesn't happen and he's dragging Belle back to his castle kicking and screaming.
Exactly, she doesn't start really developing romantic feelings for him until after he lets her go back home. Sure, there's affection, but it wasn't really romantic before that because as friendly as they were, she was still trapped there. She does se good things about him, but still only sees him as a friend.
I agree with you. I see it as him sort of reclaiming his humanity in a sense. Because then he shifted from being this Monster, to being somebody who is capable of being caring and selfless. It shows that he wasn't going to let a person die if he could help it, the motivation itself was not a romantic one. This helps steer Belle into a friendship with the Beast, but she does not fall in love with him there.
A trope I hate soo much in romcoms is the "giving up everything for them" thing. There is that Nicholas Cage movie, where he is a literal angel, who gives up immortality just to be with the love interest. You shouldn't be giving up everything for your partner, it's damn unhealthy to not have boundaries.
And also, you shouldn't want your partner to give up everything for you--as in, you shouldn't demand someone change to fit your ideal (if they can't "live up to" your standards, you should be looking for a different partner), and if they're offering to give up everything for you...run. That's obsessive and they're not going to have healthy boundaries later.
Surprisingly though, I'd say that's one of the more realistic ones. Off the top of my head, I think about a lot of my fellow LGBT+ friends who had to leave their narrowminded families if they wanted to love their partners authentically. It can send the wrong message, but sometimes I get it.
@@akiramakara2062 Good point, but I do think that that is pretty different to my example. It is one thing to make sacrifices because external pressure forces you to, and another to have those pressures come from your partner.
@@botondhetyey159 Just wanted to point out that I've seen that movie and it was not the love interest that forces him to give up being an angel. It was his angel "family" and he did it before she even got to meet him. So, your example was not different. However, you are 100% right that we shouldn't have to give up everything for your partner and that boundaries are healthy :)
As a woman who wears glasses I always HATED the glasses = "not hot" trope. I therefore stubbornly never got contacts and made it my goal to make glasses werk for me
As a curly haired woman with glasses, I have it even worse. Cause I'm always sent the message that if I straighten my hair and wear contacts I'll suddenly be beautiful.
This whole video is probably why my favorite romantic comedy of all time is My Big Fat Greek Wedding. Coming as a girl with a big crazy family who used to eat ethnic food that made the other girls go 'ewww what is that' (its liver. its delicious. you don't know what you're missing.) and went through an awkward phase as a teenager I could really relate to Tula. She and Ian are just so cute, I love how they seem to genuinely get along and enjoy each other's company and her big thing is like 'omg i love my family but they're so embarrassing' and he is just so down for the whole experience and doesn't just tolerate it half heartedly he throws himself in so completely he's the one leading the dance at the end and he doesn't just win her over, he wins the whole family over. By just being a nice, decent, good person. There's no bad boy backstory, he's just a nice guy who wanted to meet a 'real' girl and Tula isn't the 'not like other girls trope' she's a pretty, funny travel agent who loves her job and her family, wears cute girly clothes and makes him laugh. They're such a great team and I really wish more romantic comedies had couples like them.
I love the couple, but upon rewatching the movie I noticed how toxic her family is, especially her dad. Some of his behavior is inexcusable and so childish. I think Ian and Toula have to accept too much from them, simply because the family refuses to evolve. Their controlling behavior is presented as love. But if you really love someone, you should be able to listen and learn. It's a wonderful movie though, and I still love it.
@@BellaMusical oh for sure! thats why I like that the movie presents his behavior as wrong too and part of the story is him learning to change too if he wants to keep his daughter. Toula and Ian definitely have more patience with it than I would've lol Funnily enough, my neighbors who are this big Italian family did the same thing when their son got married a decade ago and bought him the house right across the street from them.
8:45 I have been saved FROM a man BY a wolf. My parents had wolves, random guy showed up in the yard and started talking to kid-me. Wolves didn't like how the guy was walking toward me and surrounded me baring their teeth at him. He wisely decided to move on. Lol
@@nicolasdiaz1542 I was too young to really know all the reasons in full but my guess is mainly because we had 10 acres of land in the middle of nowhere. Edit: we didn't have a bunch of them. We had two adults and their pup. That's it.
In Ariel’s defense, she wanted to be a human before seeing Eric. He was just the final push, along with a pretty traumatic event involving her father destroying everything she had collected in a really violent manner. They were objects, but for her, they were priceless, and he destroyed it all.
Eric falling for Ariel I think was more than just a pretty face. I'm not sure what the term would be but she saved his life. So her saving his life, while he was in a daze yes she was beautiful and had a beautiful voice (siren?) made him enamored by her. Then he sees her and she doesn't have a voice, even though he feels deflated you can tell he kinda still identifies her as his savior (he's correct but he just doesn't know it). But the days he spends with her he falls in love with her expressions and her excitement for everything they do. She seems to make everything fun for him and even grimsby said something about him not smiling in weeks, so she makes him happy and makes him laugh. He then encourages more because he takes her out and about to try more new things. She didn't need to speak for him to enjoy her company, he enjoyed her emotions, excitement and reactions and was willing to entertain anything she wanted to do (he showed her around but she even ends up pulling him around pointing to things she wants to do and he let her yank him around.) So it definitely was more than Eric just fell in love with a pretty face, that definitely was apart of it but not the only thing.
Huge agree like Ariel was a collector she studied humans as much as she was able and her dad didn’t give af he thought it was dangerous and tried to destroy the physical manifestation of it with the collection (i kinda remember him doing something or saying something along those lines)
One I hate is the "oh I don't want romance" or "I don't need a man/woman" character that ALWAYS ends up getting hitched. Maybe it's because I'm aromantic, and im just tired of people thinking I'll get hitched, when I make it clear I have no interest, but it just heavily implies that romance is the ONLY way to be truly happy.
Ironically if you really feel the way you say you feel, you actually have a healthy understanding that you don't "need" another person to be truly happy and that's why you are MORE LIKELY to end up happily married over those who elevate their idea of a perfect spouse to god-like level perfection and the only way for fulfillment and worth.
Hugs to you “Who knows at this point”. My daughter also doesn’t follow into stereotypes when it come to romance. May you find your way to surround yourself with the people who become your chosen family, in whatever form that needs to take.
@@pineddew A wise man once told me, "Family don't end in blood." And some times it need not start with blood either. May the Creator bless and keep you on your journey.
My favorite “love triangle” is when two guys like the same girl but are still cordial to each other and are just bros and mostly just want the girl to be happy
Then you NEED to read Dracula. Lucy Westenra has three suitors who all love her, and she loves them to some degree, but they're also best friends. When Lucy choose to accept Arthur Holmwood's proposal, Quincey Morris sends him a letter saying he and Jack Seward want to have a bros night out and celebrate their friend's happiness.
Honestly that "you want to spend another 3 hours seeing him improve" is why I think romances work better in TV or a serial format, since you can have more time spent on characters actually improving.
Absolutely yes. I think that kind of, sort of happened in the last two seasons of Buffy, with something that started out as a stalkerish obsession, than turned into really unhealthy wild sex ... and then after one massive act of self-change *still* took an entire season to turn first into friendship, possibly romantic love. And wasn't that an element in Californication, too? Only watched one episode of that. I love tv-shows with season-spanning story arcs, it allows for so much better story telling.
Yeah, really the most damning thing about rom coms is you go the whole movie getting jerked around about it, and then when you finally get to the actual good and interesting bit, i.e. the actual RELATIONSHIP, the movie's over! Like c'mon I want to see what these people are like as a couple at least a little!
"As a woman, how do you feel about watching love triangles?" It's almost painful. I've never been in one, but I've seen them play out and it's not pretty. It's about 32 flavors of uncomfortable. Somebody always gets hurt, there's a lot of jealousy flying around, it ruins relationships (platonic and otherwise) and the person who's being fought over is between a rock and a hard place and is the one who ultimately has to hurt somebody's feelings. I don't want to experience any of that. It's also why I give a wide berth to men who are so much as _vaguely interested_ in another woman.
Yeah, love triangles suck IRL and in movies. My husband and his best friend both liked me in high school but I only ever showed interest in my husband and yet his friend saw it as I liked him first cause I had met him first??? Anyway, clearly things didn't go well. I chose my husband, his friend chose to call me a backstabbing whore, and then his friend ran away and got a therapist cause I "ruined him". It was like- WTF?!!!
I completely agree with you. Love triangles are totally unrealistic and usually don't happen in real life, and when they do, it's way messier than what is shown on TV and movies. Like, if I were in that situation were it was between me and another woman, CHOOSE THE OTHER WOMAN.
@@NoOneReallySpecial That is honestly BS. Like. Blaming you for something that you can't control and never tried to tell him any different. I have always hated watching love triangles for many, many reasons but IRL ones... are still worse.
Oh it’s the most painful and cringiest thing. It’s never pretty, it’s never civil. Someone always loses and is usually petty or resentful about it and the other two almost never can go without feeling guilt. Hate it hate it
25:40 - One bit of 'Pride and Prejudice' that the movies leave out because it would be boring but which is very healthy is that when Mr. Darcy comes round with the "so, can I try proposing again?" scene, they don't just agree to get married but go on a walk and actually talk through their previous misunderstanding!
i dont remember the book and i couldnt watch the older movie - but the joe wright movie is brilliant because the second time you watch it you can clearly see how she and yourself totally misunderstood darcy's character. hes just different and behaves different and people who dont understand that misinterpreted his intentions. My housemate is similar - hes totally different and i thought he was a dick when i met him but it turns out thats not the case and we're friends now. its not just a great romance story but its also a great life lesson - stop making snap judgements of people.
@@ellie_sarabellum it was amazing, I’ve read the book so many times and loved that the series quoted so many lines of dialogue from the book. It was so well done.
i'm surprised you didn't mention how like 90% of all rom coms are about the 'chase' aspect of relationships and they usually end after they get together. one of my favourite films is true romance for the opposite reason because it *starts* with them getting together and the rest of the film is about how they communicate and interact with eachother and deal with their problems
one of my favorite books of all times is a trilogy series that tackles every part of real romance! in the first book they meet and gradually fall in love in a real tangible way, and then get together at the end, after a really traumatic climatic final battle. in the second book its them having to deal with the reality of starting a relationship while also dealing with the trauma of their adventure from the first book, the male lead has a rough past with an alcoholic mother and he wants to become a therapist, and so the entire conflict between them is really well done bc neither of them are straight up fucking villains, theyre just traumatized young adults trying to cope. He starts to overcompensate for their trauma by becoming overprotective, and the female lead starts to see inklings of another battle on the horizon but the hints end up melding with ptsd symptoms that make it clear shes not doing well, she doesnt focus on her health and instead saving the world essentially and her boyfriend is rightly worried. They both are valid but acting unhealthily, and its just SO complex and well written. By the third book theyre able to come together and see where they were both in the wrong and reconcile their relationship while also saving the damn world and its just really beautiful written and quite literally two of the best and most unique leads in a romantic fantasy i have ever read, hands down tied with my other favorite book series as my number ones
I herd a quote that was something along the lines of "love triangles in movies/tv aren't usually triangles, they're Vs and the woman is backed into the corner of it." And I think that's pretty accurate.
That is because there needs to be a gay for there to be a triangle and unfortunately there aren't a lot of film companies brave enough to have a gay that is actually an important part of the story. I want an asexual in the corner and two gays competing for the ace to impress each other.
Whether it's with 2 guys or 2 girls, I think you're right. An actual love triangle in a literal sense would probably be a lot more... polygamous, rather than competitive. You have two competitors and one prize. Actually I'm going to use those terms to make this more clear. I've made the mistake of getting into a "love triangle" in high school, where it was a lot more of a versus. The only solution was to end both attachments, because attempting to build a relationship with either competitor afterwards just left the prize feeling unrectifiable doubt over if they made the right decision, since they now viewed each option as simply that: an option.' And as for the competitors, they were left wondering if they'd ever be enough for the prize, even if they already had gotten picked. In this instance, the prize actually dated each competitor individually afterwards too. Both ended exactly the same way: realizing that there was no love, and the most that either the competitor or prize was there for was physical satisfaction. Ever since then I've formed a very strong sense of "if they aren't willing to choose now, then neither they, or you, will be happy when they do." The post-relationships where they were one-on-one didn't end well for anyone, and only caused more pain for every person involved since there was: A) "Did I pick the right one, and have I already hurt them irreparably?" - The One Who Picked B) "Am I enough for them, and will they stay with me?" - The One Who Got Picked C) "Why wasn't I good enough for them?" - The One Who Didn't Get Picked If it makes a difference, I was the one being fought over. And that's something I still haven't forgiven myself for.
@@silverfoxspectre OMG. Not a movie, but The Bachelor or The Bachelorette reality romcom, love thirty_odd_angle. These people are making out with multiple partners within days (or hours) of making their fateful choices. Ew. 🤢🤮🙄
I had a first hand experience with why rom com tropes are terrible and how they truly do influence people. I was basically Kiera Knightly in Love Actually, except the guy was singing to me. This was also my "love triangle moment". I had to be honest with him. I told him we could be friends but that was it, that the person I was with (who is now my husband) is the one I wanted to spend my life with. For whatever reason, he wasn't convinced that I had no romantic feelings for him. After I rejected him, he showed up at my house with his guitar in hand. I found myself thinking, "what kind of shitty rom com am I stuck in?" I hated it. It was uncomfortable and frustrating. I didn't want to hurt this person, but it also infuriated me that they truly believed that they could show up on my door step and win me over with some big "romantic" gesture, completely disrespecting not just my boyfriend (who by the way was with me when this happened), but also disrespecting me. It was a huge red flag and it led me to break off the friendship. If you are wondering what my spouse (who was my boyfriend at the time) did when this happened: he did nothing. He let me handle it. And if anything this reaffirmed my love for him even more because life is not a rom com. I don't want guys engaging in melee over me. I'm not property, I'm not a trophy. He doesn't need to win me in a pissing contest.
Wow. I'm honestly impressed that your husband didn't get involved. So many people get possessive of their spouse, and jump at the opportunity to claim them. It's so admirable that he loved and respected you enough to stay back, let you handle it, and be there for emotional support. And it's also admirable on your part, that you saw the situation for what it was (a sad attempt to win you like a prize, and not some grand romantic gesture.) Its so nice to see that real love and partnership is attainable, if you work for it.
My previous roommate had what she thought was an amicable breakup, they were friends for a few months after but when she started dating someone new (who she's still with 4 years later and seems super happy) he started asking for her back. She told him she wasn't interested and really wanted to just stay friends like they previously agreed. He showed up on valentines to serenade her and give her flowers in the morning. She was sobbing in her room and said she was really uncomfortable about the whole thing. Rom coms are cute as movies and stories, not real life.
This reminds me of a scene in Fleabag where a guy sinceres with the protagonist about what he wants and says "I want to take clean cups out of the dishwasher and put them in the cupboard at home...... and the next morning, I want to watch my wife drink from them."
@@andreasu.3546 I can honestly tell you, no matter how much time it takes me to make dinner, someone cleaning the kitchen instead of me is a romantic( from the spouse) or sweet(from the kids) gesture and is very much appreciated. Don't tear down something you wouldn't appreciate.
@@heathercontois4501 Well good for you. However, I think in 2022, males doing household chores is not a romantic gift but something you can expect in a relationship.
This is why I love the development Ariel and Eric get in the remake. They’re both hoarders lol and they crave adventure and are curious about the world beyond their homes. They have stuff in common and they spend hours n hours in Eric’s study learning about stuff. She’s eager to see the maps and wants to know about all those lil artifacts n stuff and he is more than happy to share those with her because no one else in his life takes an interest ❤
Good point. It's hard to find someone to geek out with. That was 1 of the main reasons I dated a guy. We connected through art, and I still relish those moments.
There's no heart and soul to the remake, the music isn't excellent like in the first movie, BUUUUUUT I loved that they made Eric more like a real person and they showed a real relationship forming! None of the old "he/she's very pretty, which means I love him/her, let's get married tomorrow!" crap. Also it was great in the Frozen movie everyone tells Anna it's a bad idea to marry a man she just met. 😂
“They think they’ve changed but they actually haven’t done the work” - this right here is exactly it and what I needed to hear in the 48 hours post break-up. That statement sums up our relationship perfectly.
humans dont change. they just get really good at convincing themselves and others that they have. at their core they will always be who they truly are.
@@serenityq26 I think humans have the capacity to change, but that it is a constant work and if left unattended we can regress toward what worked in the past.
I've got a friend who might have been saved BY wolves from a human stalker, does that count? She said she was out hiking in the cascades, and there was a guy following her along the trail, and every time she caught sight of him he would backtrack out of sight, and it really started to creep her out. And a group of wolves went running down the trail passed her at one point, and she didn't see him again after that. She thinks that seeing wolves scared him away, but she is super sure that he was trailing her. She reported the whole thing to the cops, but she never heard back.
Even just being passed by wolves is incredible! They're normally human-shy, aren't they? Whether or not it was the wolves that scared him off, I'm glad your friend is safe now.
@@pearlofthedarkage mhmm i have seen wolves before but usually far away and im in a car. Where my grandparents lived there were several wolf packs out there so we got to hear them howling at the moon at night and it was nice to fall asleep to
Okay, I do want to point out that in 10 Things I Hate About You, Heath Ledger's character did do the right thing by not kissing Cat while she was shit-faced and vulnerable.
Precisely, he didn't take advantage of a drunk girl, but I was also a little confused as to WHY she got super mad at him for NOT kissing her under the influence!
@@trinaq Cause she felt rejected. She wasn't really angry at him she was agry at herself for letitng someone else in and having that door slammed in her face (as she saw is). There was no win there, he made the right decision the lesser of two evils. That said he could have been a bit more upfront about it. "Look I really do want to kiss you but I want to be sure it's you who wants to kiss me not just the alchohol."
One of my least favorite things about rom coms is "being mean is flirting" which is sooo common especially like 2010's era. It's not exactly enemies to lovers because they don't generally dislike each other, they just say mean things. And it's so persistent across the genre that for a long time in my youth I thought that that's just what flirting was. Anyway, the first time I tried it it didn't work, I just confused this poor guy, and the memory haunts me to this day.
I once asked my mother if she believes in love at first sight. Her response stuck with me for years: "No, but I believe in love at first conversation."
I feel that. That’s how it felt on my first date with my now husband. He was the only person I’d ever felt completely myself around and who I was attracted too at the same time. And we could talk for hours and it felt like minutes. Usually with a cute guy, I always felt awkward, like I had to adjust who I was to please them.
I despise “Enemies to Lovers”. Now, “Enemies to FRIENDS to Lovers”? I eat that up every single time. And like they said in the video, I think this trope works best over a long period of time. It also works best when the foundation of their hatred, the very ideas that make the two characters enemies, is wrong. It’s when these characters start to communicate and truly get to know each other that they realize that the other is not so bad after all. And then, and ONLY then, perhaps romantic feelings could grow.
i dont think it works at all. When have you heard of two people who knew each other since childhood falling in love. Also unrelated but in regards to the "trope" of "woman has to change who she is to get the guy" they're assuming (wrongly) that who a woman is has to be centered around how she looks. But if a woman who dresses in sweaters and corduroys decides to change her style to attract a particular guy, her personality and brain didn't get swapped out with her clothing. She's very likely, unless she's very uncharacteristically suggestible as a person, to have her own mind and interests still.
This comment reminded me of the movie "Life as we know it" amazing movie if anyone has not seen it I do recommend it. Might not be the best movie and I know the main actress has like a weird reputation but it is literally this. They hate each other--> tolerate each other--> actually start liking each other as people until they eventually catch feelings and want to be together
i love the "they have tons of misdirected sexual tension that comes out as bickering. and everyone around them except for themselves can see it and goddammit just kiss already pls put us out of our misery" and the "they're on opposite sides of a cause but both come from the same place and have lots in common. after hearing each other out, one of them either switches allegiances or they realize both sides are in the wrong and go off to do their own thing" also "bc of a series of humorous misunderstandings and accidents (bc character B is really clumsy and also A is very attractive and its distracting), A thinks B hates them. B keeps trying to apologize but keeps making it worse. until one day they finally sit down and have a proper conversation which ends in them holding hands and planning their next coffee date" or "they're rivals (usually sports rivals but we take any work/school environment) who dont like each other. one day they have a convo and realize they have a lot in common, and they eventually end up as lovers. they still compete but now it's all friendly. and filled with sexual tension" and!!! "they're very different people on the surface and as a result always clash with each other. but they like actually talk and find out they're very similar deep down. they become friends with a newfound respect for one another, get some character development, and bam. lovers." these are just some of my fave but im sure there's tons more. enemies to lovers is my all-time fave trope and i will live and die by it
@@greatpower6063 "When have you heard of two people who knew each other since childhood falling in love" ...prior to the early/mid-1900s nearly everyone who married knew each other as kids? If you never travel more than 10 miles in your entire life, your dating pool is kind of limited. All my relatives in my parents' generation and older knew their partners for their whole lives.
Best description I’ve heard of why love at first sight doesn’t work: “Attraction is what you see. Infatuation is what you feel. Love is what you know.”
@@aurora_skye Good advice is good advice. Don't forget; plenty of sources I've read/watched agree on that point. It's pretty common. You're attributing that basic idea to one group, and it doesn't change a thing.
My grandmother thought my granddad was arrogant and didn't think much of him. They were thrown together because their friends were 'going together'. The friends split and my grandparents have been together for 60 years.
I've been in a love triangle and the answer is simple: RESPECT THE THIRD ONE. In my case, you had to respect the girl's choices and opinions and I did end up "losing" and while that hurt, I respected it. Respect is everything. Don't try to "compete". Be straight and honest. Ask what SHE wants and if it isn't you, respect that.
@@zainiadnan2335 Yes and no. We were still friends (all three) even after that. But they broke up only a few months down the line and she moved to another city. We lost contact after that. So while there's no animosity, we don't see each other, or even talk, much anymore. I'm okay with that though. I'm over my feelings. :)
@@DaDunge Ah. I see. Thing is, she was never very clear about her feelings either way. Very wishy-washy. I think she was trying to keep her options open. He was just more persistent ;) And, again, I'm fine with it. It was absolutely for the best. The woman I am with now is the love of my life. I wouldn't want it any other way.
Personally I would hate the love triangle happening with me. First of all , it just as tough rejecting someone you genuinely care about as it is being rejected. Secondly to have to reject either/or and choose between 2 people would be terrible to do,as if you're seeing which is the superior flavour of ice cream...so no I wouldn't want to be in such a situation
Pondering all the romances in my circle, through the decades...I can't think of any true love triangles. Well, maybe... A few times when she was disenchanted with a dating relationship or engagement. The guy she ended up marrying senses this and made his moves, while she was "committed'. Is that a real love triangle?
At 1st glance the concept of love triangle happening to yourself can feel... hot. Like that feeling that there`s not just one, but *two* (or maybe more! Who knows, the number can go upto more than 2, resulting in the triangle turning into some other shape) people who are attracted to, or even love with *you* at the same time, it makes the feeling of being loved go 2x... but then you realize that if polyamory is not in their book, you`re gonna have to choose, and it`s gonna be easy. So in the long run it`s better to hope that you end up in a love triangle (or any love-[shape])
Yea like it's nice to have options but when things move along to closer relationships it's just stressful even if everyone is being honest and respectful, which is almost never the case in movies.
Right? I once met 2 guys around the same time and went on a few dates with both of them. It only lasted about 2 weeks until I ended it with one of them, but I already felt miserable during that time. I couldn't imagine having something like this for a longer period of time, especially once things get more serious.
As a woman, the idea of two men fighting over me is gross. I can’t stand when male characters treat female characters like furniture. Ew. That said, some love triangles, like in the book version of Hunger Games, where there’s actually a compelling connection with each character, it can be interesting to watch. The guys had too much self respect to grand stand with each other over her. And they had other stuff going on anyway. It was interesting because it really could have gone either way
I guy in college I was holding a candle for turned out to have a girlfriend of five years. I barely talked to him before I took him to my service organization dance. He and a friend literally fought it out in Europe to see who would win the right to love a girl and he won. That was pretty creepy. He was smoking hot. I sent him a friend request on Facebook and he never responded.
Thank you. Finally someone says this. Love triangles are the absolute worst cliche. If it happened to me in real life, I would honestly consider dropping them both and go home to my romance anime and web comics. I will never want that kind of drama.
*Flips imaginary hair.* Ex-cuuuuuse me! I've never seen guys fighting over furniture. But let there be a sale, especially on Black Friday, and it's the *girls* being brutal as hell over it.
I actually experienced the "love triangle" trope and it's actually quite confusing. The dudes I dealt with had contrasting personalities, one is shy and passive while the other one is rather talkative and confrontational. Both of them liked me and I knew I had to make a choice and could hurt either of them. But yeah it's pretty awful, I'd rather see that trope in films rather than irl.
someone in college did the "love actually" thing to me, I left my keys in the dining hall, and went back up to get them. When I got to the table some guy was holding by keys (because he wanted to sit at the table and he found them). I said "oh great thanks" and left but...... He thought it was love at first sight. I was unaware. He persued me. Then I wasn't interested and he got annoyed. I didn't see him for a while (literally didn't think about him once). Flash forward several months to right before christmas break. He moves into an a dorm on in my building and hallway. I was surprised, but apparently he was kicked out of the other building and sent to mine. He KNEW where I lived because he had Christmas card ready for me when he was moving in. It was not romantic. I didn't feel flattered and I didn't kiss him. It ended in a no-contact order that he violated more than once.
That's as bad as the 'lucky accidents' popular in the 90's. When two people crash into each other and then fall in love. Supposedly. So idiots were trying to make that come about by pushing people they fancied off bar stools and into hotel pools and everyone called you a prude if you didn't go with the guy or girl who did that to you. Even if I had an interest in someone if they pushed me off a bar stool I would go straight off them.
Honestly, they need to stop showing this stuff as attractive it’s one thing to peddle stalking as romantic to women, but it’s another completely more dangerous thing to peddle this shit to men.
As a woman who's been married 25 years, cleaning the entire kitchen is a HUGE romantic gesture. I would have wanted a marching band when I was 20 because I thought it was a sign that a man is wonderful. But now what I want is thoughtfulness , respect, and gratitude.
@@DaDunge it depends on the situation and how people understand love. It's like those who like getting gifts vs those of us who have full panic attacks when being given something.
@@DaDunge that deep clean, fridge cleanout, baseboards, mopping, backsplash all that stuff is exhausting and it takes time and effort. For someone to go out of their way to take that initiative is thoughtful and am act of service (a love language).
My parents are the "Enemies to Lovers" in the Pride and Prejudice sense. They met through high school theater (techies on Romeo and Juliet, of course) and didn't like each other, but their drama teacher kept encouraging them to get to know one another. A couple of years after graduation, my dad asked my mom out. They've been married almost 40 years.
My parents didn't maybe actively dislike each other, but they say their first impression of each other was rather negative. They only got together because their mutual friend kept pushing for them three to study together for exams. :)
I’d be really curious to see your take on the new movie called “Past Lives”, which involved the main character moving overseas as a kid and reconnecting with an old friend at different stages of life. It felt very realistic to me in how it portrayed relationships, and fairly mature.
One thing that I really liked about Disney's "Enchanted" was that they did something that I haven't seen anywhere else. The girl chooses the "bland" guy. She was going to marry the cartoon prince but at the end stays with the middle-class, working, family man. Because that's what she felt more comfortable with. It was kinda cute, and I thought that I should bring it up because it's underrated.
Doug Walker hated enchanted because of the more recent Disney Princess films at the time like Beauty and the Beast and Jasmine of Aladdin when Giselle is supposed to be 80% Snow White that's why it seems more old school Disney and why he thought it was a shallow parody when it's not trying to be such. In fact Giselle ending up with the ordinary guy from New York was actually pretty clever and I did like how the prince accept the fact that Gisele genuinely loves the other guy and just wants her to be happy rather than be like Gaston where if he couldn't have her princess nobody could
@@aislingyngaio I think the movie actually does a fair bit of counseling as to what is a healthy relationship vs one that is too quick and one that is too slow. Yes they do have a love triangle that sort of turns into a love quad, but if you ignore that, than you have the story of 3 relationships, one which is pure infatuation based on romanticism, two is overly practical, both parties pursuing their own separate goals while waiting too long to see if they want to actually pursue something before "getting serious," the third romance is one that doesn't happen immediately it's based on an initial mutual friendliness followed by spending time together followed by a joining which involves both parties sacrificing a little. It's not fast, but it's not too slow either. As to the homewrecking, I kinda forgive it, because Giselle is played as "born yesterday" and her decision to pursue him only comes after the original fiance has basically already said "no I've had enough" The worst relationship in the film is possibly the last pairing, Nancy and Edward, which is a double rebound based on feeling and infatuation. But I will forgive that IF Disney adds Princess Nancy to the Disney princesses list, 😂
Another point about Pride and Prejudice: They don't hate each other. Apart from being dismissive and rude about Elizabeth (the insult was thought to be behind her back, so it's not negging) on their first meeting, Darcy likes Elizabeth very much and from an early point in the acquaintance. Elizabeth is ambivalent towards Darcy. He's not someone she want's to hang around, but she doesn't hate him until she listens to some slander. She is perfectly willing to believe the slander because he's stiff and snooty, and the person saying the slander is hot. And yes, they both have to change. Elizabeth by taking a hard look about her assumptions. Darcy by being as positively polite and respectful as any human can be when they meet again after his jackass proposal.
My most controversial opinion as a classic lit nerd is that the 2005 adaptation isn't the best one so when I see people discussing the story, they're discussing that adaptation specifically and I don't know I just wish that wasn't the case
I think a lot of people see P+P as "Darcy's looks like a jerk but is secretly nice, when Elizabeth gets over herself she can see that" and that's where a lot of enemies to lovers goes off the rails. Darcy has the emotional competence of a seasponge at the beginning, but when Lizzie reads him the riot act he leaves, does the work to improve as a person, and when he comes back at the end he makes it clear that at a second rejection he'll leave her the heck alone. He's not attractive because he's a rich bad boy, he's attractive because he freely admits he's wrong and becomes a better person.
@@TristianBlake Yes, Darcy takes the constructive criticism. There is a lot of decency there already, but he is arrogant and he does meddle and he doesn't treat people outside his circle very well. Since the proposal and meeting her again at Pemberly he's been obsessing, "oh God, the things I said!" At Pemberly he goes out of the way to show that he took the note. Elizabeth meets his sister with an open mind, and finds someone really sweet, cripplingly shy, and putting in a lot of effort because her brother asked her too.
What gets me about the makeover trope is by the end they're always supposed to have realized the makeover was not the answer and they just need to be themselves. Except they still keep the makeover... The filmmakers are like yeah we did the obligatory moral, but you don't want your protagonist wearing glasses do you?!
Well, no makeover trope can be worse than Grease. Not only is the "bad girl style" makeover presented as the coolest thing in the world and not questioned at all, but it goes as far as implying that smoking is cool/makes you cool. The cigarette is an essential part of that makeover. I'm not saying today's teens shouldn't watch Grease because of that: they should see it and have an adult by their side who can help them think through the "moral" of the movie.
The worst trope is the “he’s attracted to her so she has to fall in love with him” scenario. It doesn’t matter how terrible or unworthy a man (always a man) acts, the fact that he wants her is enough for her to accept him.
I used to summarize a lot of romantic speeches by male characters like this, "I love you with the loviest love-love that has ever been loved by a lover. LOVE ME!"
I hate movies where the love interest is basically just a reward for the main character. Give the main character a box of chocolates or a shiny medal or something instead of a human being!
@@Supernova493 right, a common thing movies do at the end of movies is give everyone a love interest as their reward or gift??? Uh we’re talking about humans here.
Irl it's the opposite 💀 If a girl is into a guy and the guy rejects her The guy is automatically seen as narcissistic or someone who's too choosy as if preferences don't exist or that there are people who aren't ready for a relationship If a beautiful girl confesses to a guy, it doesn't matter if the guy's attractive or not, he's gonna get treated with some gossiping because he rejected someone. On the other hand, some might look to him and think it's badass hahaha It's a confusing world
I used to hide little notes in my former partner's belongings. Things like "you're loved" and "you have a good heart" and sappy stuff like that. He said that meant more to him than any material things I ever gave him. I think it's important to do those little things in a long term relationship. Try not to take your partner for granted, and let them know you still care.
I tried that and my partner was appreciative so I kept doing it until it became annoying. To be fair I might've overdone it. It's the little things tho
Indeed! That is something that bother me in any relationship, in fact: been taken for granted and people just don't invest on their relationship with you because they know you tend to put a lot of effort to help them and make them feelgood.
The relationship that starts from a lie that then gets discovered but for some reason does not end up being the total deal breaking deep-red flag it absolutely should be
In AOT mr kusaver lied about being marleyan and had a marleyan wife and child. When they discover the truth they killed themself. Pretty extreme. Butmuch more interesting
I hate the Enemies to Lover trope on a visceral, personal level because that was what I essentially grew up with. My parents fought until I was in college, & I can guarantee you it didn't lead to passionate sexy times like how movie fights end. More like empty talks of divorce, alcoholism & several run away attempts on my part. I think that's a big part why I hate romance movies, because they do encourage these unhealthy expectations.
One trope that I can’t stand in rom-coms is the “I can heal your broken heart with my love.” Movies where someone had a spouse that died, or a relationship that went horribly wrong, or just has terrible luck in love, and then someone else comes along and essentially blows them off and promises that they’re different and you can trust them because they would never do those things. Healing from a broken heart doesn’t happen magically because someone else is now in love with you, it’s a gradual process that has ups and downs the same as any other emotional healing. On a different note, I HATE love triangles because of the anxiety and angst factors it produces, yet for the same reasons I LOVE enemies to lovers. Go figure 🤷🏼♀️
I agree! When I was younger, this guy really wanted to be with me while I was with someone else, and he never stopped letting me know. Long story short, the guy I was with broke it up, and guess who tried to be there for me when I was vulnerable. I was young enough to fall for it, thinking “if he’s that devoted and cares so much, maybe I should give him a chance”. and three weeks later he’s like “oops I’m not ready for a committed relationship, I’m breaking up with you” trying to keep me on the hook for way to long 😅😅 that wasn’t pleasant, this trope doesn’t work 🙅🏽♀️
I love the Disney movie "Enchanted"because it purposely defies many of those tropes, with the main storyline being that love at first sight leads to couples that don't really know each other. No character has to change in order to be with the one they love, but there is genuine growth.
@@theladyamalthea because it's in the Disney vault. When they pull it out and dust it off, we'll see it everywhere. But Disney tightly controlling their properties in that way to manipulate the market is another one of their diabolical business moves that they don't advertise they do because they are all about image (& have the best PR people to tightly control that image). I hate Disney, but I love Enchanted, the animated Robin Hood, and Encanto. I really wish Pixar hadn't ever been sold to them... And Marvel, and Star Wars. Disney is the worst.
So, as someone who got stuck in a “love triangle”, it was the absolute worst. My fiancé’s best friend fell in love with me. He was open and honest about it to both of my fiancé and I. He would remove himself from the room if he ever ended up in the room alone with me. It only went this way for a few months before my relationship started to really become problematic. There were things I was starting to notice completely separate from the best friend’s declaration. I have the most amazing family. If you just look at me, you don’t realize I come from a massively multicultural family. Long story short, the guys went away for a beach vacation for an early bachelor party. When my fiancé got back, my family had a hiccup. My sister needed to be in the hospital, and could I take care of my nephew for a year. When my fiancé got back from Florida, I told him what was happening. He had the gall to look at me and tell me there was no way he could live in the same house as a half black child. That I needed to think about my priorities and choose a side. I have never kicked someone out of my house and my life faster. A few days later, his best friend came over to talk. He told me that while they were in Florida, he slept with multiple different girls the entire time. He said he told me that not to shine the spotlight on him, but he respected me as a good person that deserved the truth. I never saw him after that. He never went back to that friend group either.
CAnt say honestly, but my mom was on a love triangle (sort of, more like she was undecisive). So my mom got divorsed and after 2-3 years of singledom, she began dating again. She felt in love with 2 guys: one more warm but lived further away, the other more strict but loved closer. After some struggling she is now dating the stricter guy, mostly because closeness (the other guy lived 5 hrs away by car). But I think she had to clearly state the farther guy that its not going to work. Do note, none of these were my dad (as my mom divorsed my dad).
Wow, that sounds totally insane, I have a question though and I do not mean to be mean. Did the topic never crop up in your relationship or was your fiancé untruthful about it?
@@ArukiTsukaru Except in the movie, the character "loosely based" off of her gets together with the ex-fiancé's friend and they co-parent the nephew until the sister's return.
I'm glad that you included what I consider to be the closet to perfect Rom-Com - "10 Ways To Lose A Guy." I know few people will agree with me, but the design of that film was absolutely as well constructed as any I've ever seen. I love to write, and I study why films work and why they don't. A guilty admission, I watch Hallmark Christmas movies to study their formula, and I have it broken down to almost a minute, and OMG it is as tight a formula as has ever been created. And people, including me, have been addicted to those movies. My two examples of how they are best done is "The Christmas Club" and "Winter Love Story." As far as mainstream, theatrical release films, their formula is not as calculated to the minute as Hallmark, but they have a formula. Very few of them play out in real life, and my "10 Ways" example is definitely one that wouldn't'', but that's what I like about it. It's just pure fun. By the way, your dislike for "Twilght" is only exceed by my hatred for it, and I never watched any of them, nor ever will. I can suspend my awareness of reality for anything but vampires or zombies. Just my mindset. You can throw in robots who "transform" into vehicles or weapons. Will never watch a film based on a toy ... and that includes the current release about a doll. Sadly, Hollywood is bankrupt for creativity and have long dropped the facade of creating art over what is the fastest way to appeal to an already existing market of the largest amount of money we can deposit into our account. While I'm on the side of the writers in the current strike, so few of them are worthy of that title.
I was the girl in a love triangle. My boyfriend had moved long-distance, and there were a lot of issues with the relationship that I was being blind about, and as I got interested in another guy (about 6-8 months after my bf moved), the issues I'd been supressing started coming out. In the end, both guys told me they would support the decision I made and I decided to break up with the long-distance bf because of the issues we had (communication issues, differences in maturity, I didn't want him to join the armed forces and that was his plan, etc). I've been married to the other guy for 16 years this May, so I think I made the right choice for me.
I was the other guy in a love triangle. Don't know if it was really a love triangle. I was studying abroad for a year, so was the girl I met during that year. She had a boyfriend home. We had many nice talks and it was clear that we are attracted to each other and there's more than friendship. But she didn't want to break up with her boyfriend at the time and I respected that. So we parted after the year and went home. We met again one year later. I had been in another relationship that had just ended. She was still with her boyfriend but they had problems. The feelings were still there but she still didn't want to end it. So I told her that I'll be there for her as a friend no matter what, but told her also that I'm of the opinion that I deserve my chance now. She soon after ended the relationship with her then boyfriend and moved in with me. We're now together since 14 years and marreid since 7. Still in love with each other.
I have had two guys physically fight over me, although I have to confess I am not a woman etiher. Anyways, I told them they both just lost any chances they had previously had by physically fighting eachother, Cuz I am not going to date anyone who thinks that I would impressed with anyone who resorts to physical violence like that. No regrets there.
Yep, instant red flags. Elle from "The Kissing Booth" and Anastasia from "50 Shades of Grey" must be colour blind, since they missed ALL of the warning signs!
@@trinaq AND Bella from Twilight- Edward literally said he was FOLLOWING her when he barley knew her- and thats not even the worst part of their relationship
The problem with the Big Romantic Gesture is that people learn from movies that "it works", so when applied irl they expect it and even demand it to work. Like all those girls asked for prom or marriage proposals made with great public gestures that pressure the girl to say yes, and if she doesn't, the public surrounding them bash the women because "how could they say no when they did Big Romantic Gesture for them?"
I totally agree with you. I don’t like how rom-coms depict that the ‘big romantic gesture’ automatically ‘gets the girl’. I find the trope of when the man runs after the girl at the airport so cliché and unnecessary. Plus, how do they get past security? If I were the female lead, I would be annoyed (and embarrassed) if I had missed my flight because of that, as well as inconvenience other travellers/staff. Even if there is an initial mutual interest or attraction between the two, the likelihood of this working out (or even happening) in real life is slim. I find most public proposals weird because it gives little to no room for women to say “no”. It puts both parties in a tight spot because of the immense pressure from the public. If the woman rejects the guy, then she might be villainised by the crowd whereas, the man would be humiliated. Personally, I would not want my future fiancé to propose to me in public with many onlookers. I feel that it’s supposed to be an intimate moment shared between partners. Otherwise, it won’t feel as ‘exclusive’ anymore but then again, to each its own.
This reminds me of a video I saw of a girl doing this kind of thing to a boy in school in the middle of a hallway, she literally just stopped him while he was walking with a note asking if he wanted to date her in front of everyone and he said no and walked away, both the girl, and her friend laughed it off before they stopped recording atleast, but in the comments people criticizing the boy for being so cold but like- they literally put him in the worst position ever, anything but an inmediate yes would make him look bad and they asked while he was clearly walking to class, even if he did stop to talk to her that would make everyone look at them, it was overall just a big awkward moment fron everyone involved.
It reminds me of Bojack Horseman, when Diane and Mr Peanutbucker break up after he made a "big romantic gestures" and people were saying Diane was unfair to him and what he did was nice... Even if Diane told him multiple times that she doesn't like big gestures and that by doing it anyway, Mr Peanutbutter just showed how much he doesn't know his wife. Of course they get a divorce.
@@nanalove3819 I think what's even worse about Mr. Peanutbutter's big romantic gesture that led to their divorce was that it was basically an EMPTY gesture, considering the one thing Diane could've actually gotten out of the room he made for her wasn't even included, that being books. She could've at least gotten some books out of his gesture, but he revealed all the books inside were fake. One of the only things she could've actually liked about it wasn't apart of it, showing how little he actually cares about her and what she likes.
Y'all, I don't like even having happy birthday sung to me at restaurants! Seriously, I've walked out because people thought it would be funny, even after I asked to not have it happen. When my husband proposed, it was literally just in front of our parents and siblings, and that was too many people for my liking. My mom was taking pictures, and in them I'm just glaring at him with my hands on my hips, super annoyed. I said yes because I wanted to marry him, but before I said yes, I told him he should have done this in private, with just me and him. Now, he's very much like Jonathan. His big romantic gestures are cleaning the house or baking cookies or something that is just really sweet, not glamorous, but big to me.
I always wondered why I hate romantic comedies as a kid. When I got older I realized that it was because of these tropes. Made me feel super insecure when I was growing up. It never emulated my parent’s marriage so I kind of unbeknownst to me sniffed out the bull crap. Whenever love triangles came up I immediately thought they should bulldoze the whole thing and felt like pulling out hair whenever I saw them. But hey I’ve never been in a relationship so what do I know.
young men learn about love from their parents, and movies. We quickly find out the movie shit does not work, and if your parents arent together or have toxic relationships, you learn that you know nothing.
I think “My Best Friend’s Wedding” is one of my favorite rom coms because it subverts the trope of love being a reward despite awful behavior. I also love that the ending enforces the idea that it’s ok to not have that one special someone because sometimes you might find a soulmate in a friend.
I used to love this film and upon rewatch, I hated it. I will always love George and Cameron Diaz, but I just could handle watching the awful things Julia Roberts did which I get is the point, but it was too cringey to watch. I never like seeing many lives almost getting ruined because the character did not take her chance a long time ago. However, I do respect Cameron Diaz’s character not letting Julia roberts’s to steam roll all over her and how her groom ran after her. I also liked how George still remained friends with Julia Roberts despite being witness to the misdeeds his friend did.
As a female fan of Cinema Therapy, I would like to say that I absolutely HATE love triangles, especially with two guys and one girl. I have never understood the appeal. The girl is never THAT special. There are always other wonderful characters around them they could be with and would actually appreciate them but for some reason they never see it. As for a fix it, maybe one of them could get therapy and realize that they deserve to have someone be loyal and put them first? Or someone could just die.
I completely agree. Love triangles are one of my least favorite tropes of all time. I've read or watched a few that were good. But for the most part, they're tolerable at best and INSANELY AGITATING at worst. I think it's been WAY overdone, it was real popular back in the late 2000s and early 2010s. But now I think they need to take a SERIOUS step back. Like, if you can't fucking choose between the two, polyamory's right there. I couldn't have found a better comment.
I also find that trope super uncomfortable. I don't like how it tends to force Oh Wait One Of Them Sucks/Was Evil/Has A Terminal Illness or Old Ex That's Gonna Conveniently Pop Up to save the protagonist from having to make a difficult decision or hurt someone's feelings.
I haven't seen this done in movies but some female protagonist in anime and/or manga can actually be so awesome that it justifies the triangle (or harems). Though, I find that it only works when the protagonist is either unaware or had yet to develop romantic feelings anyone. Then for me it's just fun to root for my favorite "ship" or character that I find most attractive. But just to clarify, this is in no way fun in real life as someone always gets hurt and that just sucks. So yeah, I'd rather see it in movies and novels.
My husband claims he had love at first sight for me. I saw the "struck by Cupid" look in his eyes when we were introduced, which I admit I had never seen before directed to me. I was NOT in the market, being in a relationship at the time. We got to be good friends, and I discovered his basic honesty, optimism, and gentleness. Three things I was missing with my then relationship. When THAT old relationship blew up with a bang, he was one of three guys I dated, and he just won me over in time to a deep and abiding love. Married 48 years, best thing that ever happened to me.
I believe “ Love at first sight” can happen. I’ve never thought it was because of appearance, but like sensing goodness in the person that they see. And weather a relationship starts with “love at first sight”, or not, they both require just as much time and work❤️
I was victim of a “love triangle” once and it was so stressful that I quickly told both of them “hey look there is another guy, who is interested in me. And I am as much interested in him like I am in you. So you can decide if that is something you want to deal with or we can just call it quits” - of course both did not want to deal with it. And tho I was sad at the beginning i quickly realized, that all I enjoyed was the attention 🤷🏼♀️. So yeah love triangles are horrible…
I think my biggest flex in my relationship is being able to communicate. Me and my bf speak about anything, trauma, doubts in the relationship, next steps, when we are scare of the commitment we re making, when we are confused or frustrated. There is not a single doubt in my relationship that I can't share with him, and we always solve it together
I’ve been married 21 years next month and with him for 22 years and we’ve known each other for 26 years! Communication is definitely key.. you’ll always know where you stand with one another. It’s extremely important for a healthy long lasting relationship.
This is the same with my boyfriend and I. We talk about anything and everything, and if there's an issue, we solve it. Communication is a big deal, and taking accountability is just as important, on both sides
As a mixed girl (black and white) with curly hair, it was quite damaging to see the 'makeover' trope center straightening one's hair as a way to achieve beauty
@@kohakuaiko hmm, isn't that just the same idea in reverse though? If every person with straight hair had to get it made curly for makeovers, it would still not be ok ;)
As a female, neither the love triangle nor the love rhombus appeal to me 😂 When the love triangle happens I start shouting at the screen, "Make up your mind already!" It's always the good guy that gets shafted in the love triangle... I married the "good guy" and can confirm that our life is not vanilla or bland :)
same tbh, i didnt rlly think that deeply about it, and also got more annoyed when the love triangle would just drag out when it was obvious which person they'd pick.
I married the good guy, but I love my vanilla life. Stability, kindness and loyalty over action any day for me. I can make enough excitement, I need the mellowing influence.
To answer your question as a woman I think the love triangle actually stems from finally giving woman a choice. When you guys watched Barbie it gave you more perspective there but the love triangle part truly appeals to woman because they get 2 guys but they get to pick the one who best suits them. And the choice is completely theirs. It doesn't matter who they choose since both want her. So in offering such a choice it makes woman more excited because of the underlying psychological problems of women not always having a choice.
The big romantic gesture my husband makes: Every single morning, around 8am (when I start my work), he bring me a cup of coffee in a cute cup... sometimes he buys a cup he think I might like for my morning coffee. A couple of weeks ago he broke his hand and we started to make the morning coffee together (more like I prepare it, he gives me instructions on how to achieve the best coffee) :D
My husband's is using his incredible power of knowing when I need a cup of tea and he makes me one. His other one is either cooking dinner or getting take out when I'm just over it.
When my husband gets out of work early enough he surprises me with sweet tea from one of many of our favorite places to eat. Or when he works from home he’ll have bought some breakfast tacos for me since he gets up earlier than I do. It’s the small things. ❤️
That is so cute!!! My boyfriend does a similar thing where he specifically bought milk and coffe and a coffee maker for me so he could make me coffe with milk foam when I'm staying over
One trope that often happens in romance books specifically (that I love) is called The Grovel. It's a turning point where the main love interest (after screwing up) openly says "I hurt you. I had my reasons, but that doesn't make it okay. I am devastated that I hurt you and I want to put in the work to fix it." It's an incredibly important fantasy for many women; to have your pain, your feelings, and your trauma made central to the narrative. Many guys that I have spoken to see it as some kind of power fantasy, but it's not. It's a significance fantasy. A good romance is where both characters feelings and their growth from start to finish takes work and we see progress. It is absolutely terrifying how many men are somehow threatened by the idea of it.
I love this, but only if he actually follows through with it. There's no point in apologizing if there's no work done afterward to fix the mistakes of the past or make better decisions going forward. I saw an attempt at something like this done in After, the book. There were several times that he apologized and promised to change and then he went back to the same exact behavior of drinking, yelling, insulting her, and isolating her from loved ones and repeated this cycle multiple times throughout the book, it was absolutely disgusting to see an abusive relationship portrayed as romance and pandered to teenagers like that. He didn't actually value her feelings or needs, he just wanted her to stop being mad at him. I understand if the love interest genuinely apologizes and struggles to change afterward, actually I'd like to see a struggle and a payoff, but the payoff has to come, the changes have to be made even if it takes a while, because women cannot continue to be told that our feelings don't matter and we deserve men who don't care about us IN BOOKS AND MOVIES THAT ARE MADE FOR US
I wouldn’t even call that a “Grovel.” That’s just apologizing for mistakes, which is necessary for a healthy relationship. Men who are threatened by that are weak. Heck, anyone who feels threatened by accountability is weak.
It's not that they feel threatened, it's that it often has the opposite effect. When a guy starts groveling, he no longer appears confident and looks like a simp. Appearing weak and a simp is one of the biggest turn offs for women in general.
I always felt like Eric fell in love with Ariel because she keeps surprising him. She brushes her hair with a fork, and steals the reigns of his wagon and takes him for a ride. Like, I got the impression that her individuality was what drew him to her.
Also, Ariel didn't "give up being a mermaid" FOR Eric. He was incidental. She may have had a crush on him sure, she was a teenager, and as a human he represented to her everything she wanted, long before she first saw him. "To be where the people are" It was the bad guy, Ursula, who offered her this faustian deal to become a person but made staying a person vs. losing her soul contingent on making Eric fall in love with her, and is the one who made her voice the price. Ariel made the terrible deal because she would have done anything to follow her dream of being human. AND Eric was mesmerized by her because of her voice, so unlike the argument so many make against the little mermaid that she had to give up her voice to make him love her- it had the opposite effect. It was significantly harder to get him to fall for her without her voice, but since they had chemistry it was working anyways, til Ursula cheated. Luckily Ariel got her voice back, which not only broke the spell but hearing her voice reminded him it was Ariel he had fallen for. Post dramatic- baddie gets defeated scene, Ariel's father realizes that he has to let his daughter go out in the world and make her own choices, so transforms her back to a person and supports her decision. It also does not specify the amount of time that elapsed between Ariel and Eric being reunited and their wedding. Just cause it cuts to it in the movie doesn't mean it was immediate. For all we know they spent a solid chunk of time getting to know one another first. Since her being human was no longer contingent on making Eric fall for her, she could have split it off with him if he turned out to not be what she expected. Since she stayed, whether it would long term work out or not, that was her free choice to make. Anyways, long story short, I agree.
In the original story the prince doesn't fall in love with her but keeps her a bit like a favourite pet. And she on the other hand isn't after him because of himself but because by getting him to love and marry her she will get to share his immortal soul, a thing that mermaids don't possess.
@@lottaraatikainen3942 In the original story, she turn into sea foam because she refuse to stab Eric (who choose another woman) with a dagger that her sisters gave to her. If she had put her feet in his blood after stabbing him with that dagger, she would have become a mermaid again. She basically sacrificed herself.
@@idonotcomprehend Thank you, but I'm familiar with the original story - also the very end where the mermaid turns into a spirit of air instead of foam and it's pointed out to her by the other air spirits that she is now better off since now she can earn her salvation with her own work instead of depending on a man for it.
I know this video is a year old, but my marriage is basically modern Pride and Prejudice (one of my favorite books). When I first met the man who became my husband, I couldn't stand him. It took a year of ending up at the same gatherings before I even wanted to be in the same room with the man. I would go out of the way to be as far away as possible. I thought he was loud, obnoxious, and just generally annoying. He apparently decided he liked me way before I liked him, but I still didn't want to be around him. After being stuck at the same parties, thanks to overlapping social circles, I eventually decided to try getting to know him, if only to understand why my friends thought he was worth inviting in the first place. Fast forward another six months of growing, changing, and learning about each other and we decided to date... that was twenty years ago and we're still happily married. So, a year of not being able to stand him - probably about six months of that, he was into me. Another six months of becoming friendly. Another 2 1/2 years of dating, and finally marriage. Oh! and my name is Elizabeth, just like the story. Also, he comes from money and I don't, and his meddling mother (as opposed to great aunt) tried to keep us from tying the knot. And I have younger three sisters. There's no Jane equivalent. Otherwise, we hit a lot of the story bullet points.
I remember once, having a "We hate each other from the start" relationship with a man. I told my friends, "If this was a movie, we'd be married within six months. He's attractive, smart, well employed, shares my religion, basically everything we're told to look for, and we fought from the get-go. So, yeah, in a movie, we'd fall in love and realize that spark of anger towards each other was the spark of chemistry and passion, and BOOM! LOOOOOVE! But this isn't a movie. And we hate each other. I have NO IDEA why he hated me. I hate him because of the way he treated me, once he decided that he hated me. It's not going to happen between us. And if he's going to be part of this group date, then count me out. I won't enjoy it if he's there. Because he WILL do something to hurt me." What clinched it for me was one day, after we had a meeting (we were both on the same planning committee), a man on the planning committee came up to me and apologized. "Look, the way he treated you yesterday was awful, and I feel bad that I didn't speak up in the moment. He shouldn't have treated you like that." That's when I KNEW that, even if this WERE A movie, we should NOT be together. He may be all the good things on paper, and he may be good and kind TO OTHER PEOPLE, but he was abusive to ME, and that means EVERYTHING. It's like, when you see a woman who is with a bad man, but she says, "Yeah, I know he abuses everyone, but he treats ME well." Nooooo! He's a BAD PERSON, and he will, one day, treat you badly, too! This guy was a BAD PERSON, who felt safe abusing me, for whatever reason. He treated other people well, because he felt that he MUST. He didn't feel safe abusing them. So, yeah, the enemies to lovers trope really gets my goat, because in real life, it's just a bunch of warning bells. Unless they are, like, political enemies, and it's not personal. Like if Romeo and Juliet had been adults who knew what they were doing, but said, "You know? Screw politics! Our relationship is outside of politics!" I can get behind that. But when the "meet cute" is "These two people crashed into each other, and yelled at each other because of it, instead of saying, "Oh, excuse me. I wasn't watching where I was going," or judged each other badly and wrongly and harshly, and are really good people who were just having a bad day, and will see the good in each other, eventually," it ANNOYS ME. At best, they can have the "we got off on the wrong foot," and then they are forced to spend a lot of time with each other, and both agree to be civil, because it's the right thing to do, and they are serving a greater purpose that requires them to work together, and in doing so, they learn to see 1) the good in the other and 2) that they were mistaken in their initial judgement, and 3) that they are flawed, too, and 4) that they actually ARE a good fit, when they put their differences aside and/or forgive their differences/flaws. But that takes, as you say, another three hours of movie time. That sort of relationship is GREAT for a mini series, though. Elizabeth Gaskell's North and South, for example? They took TIME.
I had a similar experience to yours--met a guy who I thought I might be interested in only to find the animosity insurmountable. I think the idea of enemies to lovers always appealed to me--that anything is possible--but sometimes it just leaves a person too open, and you end up trying to understand why a guy is being mean ("does he secretly like me?" = romcom scenario) when he's just being a jerk and the only solution is to avoid him. In the end someone else had to point out that the way you were being treated wasn't ok... again, I relate. The trope did a number on me too... and they made good points about it in the video.
I've been in a love triangle once, and it was not in any way dramatic, exciting or enviable for anyone involved. Just awkward and really really painful. My dignity was shredded and I was never the same again. If you're the butt-end of the triangle, it's humiliating on a cellular level. I was in love with this guy for years, and then my best friend started dating him. It totally broke my heart and made me so depressed that I could barely get out of bed for 6 months. At one point, we were enrolled in a class together, but all the other students dropped out and the class ended up consisting of just the three of us. It was like a scene out of the worst rom com ever, except there was no climactic confrontation or blow-up. It was just me and her trying our darnedest to pretend that everything was ok.
I don't know your life and am not trying to be judgy, but being so depressed you can barely leave the bed for _half a year_ over romantic feelings you held onto for years but never did anything with... you may not have been ready for a relationship anyway, and it would probably be healthier to focus on self-love first in that sort of situation.
@@hectoremanuelbrandan4126 Thank you for asking. The love triangle is fortunately no more. During the pandemic, they ended their relationship and moved to different parts of the country. I'm not sure how much those wounds ever really go away, but not having to face them in daily life is definitely a weight off of my shoulders
@@onetouchofvenus2335 i hope you can heal those wounds eventually, the scars might be there forever and they might hurt sometimes, but i’m sure it’ll get better. i wish you all the best
With that enemies to lovers trope, my parents were both teaching at the same school when they met. My dad was apparently one of those guys that women just threw themselves at and he didn't find it super amusing. My mom told us her first interaction with Dad was hearing him sarcastically tell some one, "oh good, another heart to break" when he found out a new female teacher (mom) was just hired. She instantly disliked him. They eventually got to know each other better, and ended up married for almost 30 years (until Mom passed away). Enemies to lovers is literally my origin story 🤣
When someone said that "romance movies end before the relationship begins," it was such a light bulb moment for me. So many girls who wanted moments and romances similar to rom coms then found themselves dating someone on and off for several drama filled years without advancing to stable relationships. They had no examples of stable relationships irl or in media. If it was in media, it was painted as boring and unfulfilling. Nowadays, I think a lot of women realized how scary or toxic some rom com things are irl. More couples are also finding success in redefining relationships to fit them instead of trying to fit into a box that doesn't fit them. Relationships and marriages aren't where joy dies, and life ends if you find compatible partners. It would be nice to see more rom coms that subvert creepy tropes
I will admit that I genuinely love the enemies to lovers trope because I think there's something so beautiful in being able to grow as people, not only into a relationship but into better versions of yourselves. In being able to recognize your flaws and mistakes, and being able to recognize the ways in which you can relate to people that you think you hate and then finding understanding there where you didn't expect it. I especially enjoy when its enemies to okay acquaintances to friends to lovers, because it demonstrates how much time and effort must be put into a relationship in order for it to grow into something worth keeping.
Yes! Someone finally put it into words for me! I've always absolutely LOVED enemies to lovers tropes but my friends keep on asking me why, now I can finally give them good reasons!
Beginning of a story where two characters dislike each other or are in some kinda rivalry is the only time where i would like to see their growth as characters where they come to understand the other person but there have been so many dramas where one of the character literally bully the other one and says such mean stuff which in the end is discarded as them being in love but they just didn't know how to show love which is where i feel the line should be drawn
I agree, and something else I like about the trope is the implication that you can be difficult, hostile even, and still be loved. That someone can know what they consider your worst side right away and they will still keep engaging and eventually find something lovable.
@@desaturated-firefox yes, I love that. And after that, the two characters can really know each other and don’t have to hide. It creates this awesome connection that, when done well, can actually be very healthy and sweet
I appreciate the discussion of the “Damsel in Distress” trope but I think Beauty and the Beast is a poor example (aside from the specific use of wolves). The beast saves Belle’s life because it’s the right thing to do. He has a huge moment of regret after yelling at her, and goes after her because he has compassion for her. He saves her because it’s the right thing to do, and doesn’t gloat or expect anything from her because he did so. He’s actually surprised when she thanks him. The other thing to note is that Belle has a similar character moment. After the fight, the beast collapses from his injuries. She could have left him there and gone home which would have solved her problem. Instead, she also has compassion for him and decides to take him back to the castle to help him heal. And in turn, she doesn’t gloat or expect anything from him afterward.
I've never seen a sincere damsel in distress situation in which the rescuer gloats about it, that's usually only in satirical takes. Just because it was less overt and had some positive aspects surrounding it doesn't change the fact that the writers still felt the need to include a "Man Proves He Is A Good and Just Protector By Saving Woman" scene. Even things that are really good with positive messages can have little influences and stereotypes like that, and it's okay to acknowledge them. It doesn't mean they're "bad."
I agree. Beast saving Belle isn't a plot point in their relationship. It's a plot point in his character growth. And Belle is in genuine need of saving from real danger, as opposed to other damsel in distress examples where the danger is something the damsel could solve or walk away from on her own. In Rom-Coms usually the distress they need saving from is a perfectly functional long-term relationship or good stable job.
I think the 'wolves' point was the failure in their discussion of that issue. It sort of trivialized their commentary without getting to the root imo. Saving someone is such a broad concept and it doesn't have to be a literal wolf to be cliche. I can't even think of THAT many movies that use wolves specifically (and some are in the wild so it...while I can agree it's a cliche, it does make sense in context). I am more bothered in film by the focus of the woman in the situation being that the dude saved her and being eternally grateful and that she owes being with him for that. While thanking that person is the good thing to do...so rarely do we get focus on if she is ok and whatever healing that should start. Trauma is a hell of a thing...
I will say, I do think love at first sight exists. I met my husband through work and as soon as we saw each other, we knew. We took a while to get to know each other, but got married two years in. Most people wouldn't recommend "moving so quickly," but we knew we were meant to be on sight. We did have some of the miscommunication/almost didn't happen moments, which my husband hates to think of and finds embarrassing for how "stupid" he was being. (His words, not mine.) I love to look back at it and see how we started as silly young adults who fell so deeply in love and continue to this day. I think it definitely depends on the situation, but I do think it's possible to just know once you meet someone. I love watching you guys and I'm trying to get my husband to watch with me!
It's not my preference but i don't mind it. I think it's more realistic than a lot of the other ones. When you spend so much time with someone and you know you enjoy their company and get those fuzzy friendship feelings then it can be hard to differentiate when those feelings become more romantic in nature. I've thought about kissing all my friends. It's not because I've been in love with them it's just because it's nice and i don't see kissing as a purely romantic thing. It's just a physical intimacy a slight step above a hug. It's not making out. It's also pretty normal to feel a bit jealous of a friend's lover, not necessarily because you're in love with them but just because now your friend has less free time to spend with you and probably takes up some of your time together by talking about their s/o. I can understand how someone could struggle to recognize their romantic interest. Not to be confused with the trope of the friend who was in love with their bff from the start and just didn't say anything. I think that one feels a lot more predatory. Like you're waiting for the right time to strike. Like they had impure motives in befriending you. In that situation I'd wonder if they were waiting to comfort me in a time of emotional vulnerability so they could tell me all i wanna hear and try to get me to date them when I'm not in a position to be thinking things through.
@@yukikanegawa7470 I agree. Also, coming back here to say I've just watched Bridgerton season 3, which is this exact same plot, and I loved it 😂 so I think it depends on how much we are cheering for the leading couple
Alan: "We don't have 3 hours to sit there and be bored while people are just decent to each other." Me, an Asian drama fan: *"And I took that personally."*
If it's at the end of a kdrama, those long moments are so hard-won that they are delightfully swoony. But if it occurs in the middle of the series, it's ominous. You can enjoy it nervously and with anticipation because you know something horrible yet exciting is coming up.
When talking about communication, you forgot to mention one of the biggest cliches in rom-coms, the "Third Act Misunderstanding/Break-Up". Seriously, I lost count how many movies centering on a relationship see some kind of mix-up at the end of the second act that could be cleared up by a two-minute conversation, but, instead, it breaks up the leads only for them to get back together at the end, usually through a big romantic gesture. It is the worst cliche of the genre.
Oh I _hate_ that trope! I see it all the time in the romance shows I watch, can practically see it coming a mile away and adds absolutely nothing to the relationship or story other than drama for the sake of drama
And it always have to be raining during/ after the miscommunication or it leads one of the leads to decide to leave somewhere far away (never downtown or five minutes away) and they have to be stopped because clearly phones or taking another flight/ train/ bus after is impossible/ does not exist
Especially when they don't even clear up the misunderstanding 🤦 And no one seems to realize how public romantic gestures are putting someone in a position where they can't refuse without punishment (the crowd is always cheering "say yes!" Or "take him back!" And she's gonna look like an asshole if she doesn't), which is manipulative af
I'm going to defend Eric in the OG Little Mermaid. He fell in love with the singing girl because she saved his life. He only fell for mute Ariel after she acted like her quirky, outgoing self, making him laugh, and being a bit wild. Like the diner scene- sure he notices she's pretty, but he really starts to like her as she uses a fork like a comb or blows tobacco in Grimsby's face. Then the two go on a legitimate date, where he seems to genuinely enjoy her company, smiling when he sees her excited and laughing at her funny facial expressions and having fun when she goes a bit too wild with the cart as he gives her the reins. They have a strong personal connection, and her beauty did help that, but it was not the sole reason he fell for her.
I’m actually going to challenge you on The Little Mermaid, even though I have issues with it as well. So! If you watch her behavior on land, Eric doesn’t fall in love with her because she’s shy and demure, he falls in love with her because she is so excited to be in this new world, seeing everything for the first time. She drags him everywhere like an excited puppy, interrupts a puppet show, jumps over a small canyon in a horse and buggy (scaring the crap out of him) and joyfully dances with him in the street. I don’t think he falls in love with her because she has no voice, he falls in love with her because her personality shines through DESPITE her being voiceless.
It’s a great point of view, but still I’m not so sure that he could really fall in love with her personality because ,like you said , - she was so excited , everything was new to her, so it’s kinda hard to tell if he would still be interested when her “rush” settles, when she would feel other emotions like anger or something. But I really think that he was able to see at least little bit past her looks
I definitely agree with you that he doesn't fall in love with her because she has no voice. Ursula takes away Ariel's voice because that's what Eric WANTS. Eric's current image of the woman he wants is the mysterious woman who was singing to him on the beach. Her voice was what attracted him to her in the first place and Ursula took that away in an attempt to screw Ariel over. She does this with all of her victims in the typical villain trope of making a contract that is also a trick, as evident from a deleted scene where Ursula is talking to a merman she offered a spell to make him strong and handsome in exchange for a flower which is out of season that he obviously can't find. When she realizes that her plan is failing and Eric is falling for Ariel regardless of her lack of voice, she uses that to control Eric. In the end, he learns to appreciate Ariel for who she is and not just because true love "hit him like lightning" like he thought it would.
Yesss!!! I will defend little Mermaid to my dying days- it is absolutely not flawless but everyone forgets that montage and the fact that Eric made it clear in his early parts of the movie that he WANTS to fall in love with whoever he ends up with, and he didn't want to marry the girl who saved him, but thank her and if possible get to know her if she gives him the chance, and when 'Vanessa' comes up she literally magically enchants him because he was ready to give up on his mysterious heroine in order to get to better know the lovely, charming, excited mute girl he helped out earlier that he finally learned the name of.
@@zachariahherring3950 my only counterpoint (and it's less "you're wrong" and more "aaaa I wish peopleknew this") is that is 100% true for Disney's the little mermaid, but Ursula wasn't a villain in the OG she was an ambivalent magic user😭
As a girl who has worn glasses since I was 3, the take off glasses to make a girl pretty seriously ruined my self confidence. Watching Wonder Woman 1984(after loving the first one) made me very angry. It was freaking 2020 and they were still doing that trope.
I saw a tweet or something once that said "are you actually in love with the enemies to lovers trope or do you just love the idea of someone seeing you at your worst and still loving you?" and it has f'ed me up ever since hahaha
I mean ultimately that's the goal. Most of our partners have seen us at our worst nd still loved us. The problem arises when u r not willing to work on it or they don't let u work on it cz they're attached to your worst self
What I LOVE about the live action Little Mermaid is that the Actually get to know each other and find out that they have a lot of things in common, and in the end she doesn’t give everything up for him (her family).
I saw a quote somewhere once that said "thank god I didn't find what I thought I wanted when I was younger" and it hit very hard as someone who used to bury themselves in romance books, films or series and romanticize every scenario in my head until I actually got into a long term relationship and realised that those things were bonkers
The trope that I wish would die is the epiphany at the end; "I finally realized we were perfect for each other all along!" sending the message, "if you just wait long enough, some day, they'll realize what they threw away." RomComs are movies written by the people who are telling the story of the fantasy they wished happened. That level of attachment, obsession, expectation not grounded in reality, and denial needs to just go away.
But isn't that kinda the whole point tho? RomComs as a genre are meant to be indulgent, not based in reality, that's what makes them fun (if they're done and written well, there's a lot of bad ones too).
There could still be movies that are both romantic and comedic without incessantly falling back on this trope. For instance, and just off the top of my head, didn't "My Best Friend's Wedding" result in acceptance rather than the unrealistic epiphany?
@@FencerPTS Sure, but the acceptance trope is also a popular one too. Idk, it just really relies on if the story is well written and characters are well rounded/developed. There are a lot of good romcoms out there that use the popular tropes, but do them well.
Can you guys talk about the series Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. The show dismantles dozens of tropes (including the one in the title) and plays with all possible conventions. It is also considered to be one of the best representation of mental health issues in the media.
I disagree that Eric falls for Ariel solely for her looks; he falls in love with her endearing personality. She's not being shy and demure at all??? She's being weird, she's pulling him around in the town cause she's excited, he GIVES HER the reigns for the horse and she just goes haywire with it and DESPITE that he continues to trust her and lets her keep the reigns. You could argue the boy has zero survival skills, but that's not the subject here. Eric is, in the long run, a polar opposite to her father who is controlling and abusive and that is what Ariel ultimately falls in love with. Yes, he's handsome, but she also listens to him speak about his dreams and what he's looking for in a wife, it's not just empty "oh he pwetty" as far too many people dismiss it as.
I'm aromantic, so it doesn't really apply to me, but my older sister who has actually been in a real-life situation with two guys fighting over her has said it was a legitimately horrible and stressful experience, and not flattering in the least. So neither of us are terribly thrilled with love triangles in our films.
I would LOVE to see a “rom com” for a spectrum of people in the Ace community. I suppose watching the parts of Anne of Green Gables that focuses on Anne & Diana will have to do…
I'm Bisexual af, not at all Ace, and I still get SO incredibly fucking tired of always having a romantic subplot/hornyness disguised as "romance" shoved into literally every damn piece of media, all the time. Sometimes you just want to see bffs or just queer-platonic (in the small little water droplet of actual queer rep we get, most of it just sadly ends up as queerbait, nothing else. It's why people tend to be so protective of the few canon ones we get, but goddamn, you guys are part of the community and deserve voices and rep too!), but nope, happy ending always equals passionately in love and ready to bang the second the scene fades to black, I guess.
Just as a curiosity, how did the triangle start? Because from a totally outside perspective with no context, why didn’t she tell one or both of them to go away? If she was clear that she wouldn’t accept either of their affections or that she had chosen one or the other, then that’s not fighting over her, that’s just stalkers fighting or her bf fighting a stalker. If they were fighting because she wanted time to chose… sorry but I’d give her over 50% of the blame. Sorry I’m just curious how real life triangles happen and work out. It’s very common in my area to date multiple people at a time and at some point to chose the person you like best or feel the most connected with. Everyone understands the situation and while there can be hurt feelings it usually isn’t too messy.
I was sort of, kind of in a love triangle. I grew up in a cult that believed the parents should pick your husband, so they had me courting this guy I barely knew, when a different guy who wasn't in the cult expressed feelings for me, and I suddenly realized I actually had a chance to marry for love, and I was pretty conflicted. The cult guy got upset that he had competition and proposed (after a grand total of 6 days of courtship), and I said I needed a week to think. (Because refusing him was like rebelling against my religion, and accepting him would be committing to never seeing my non-female friends ever again, AND NOW THAT I KNEW I HAD OTHER OPTIONS, I WAS OVERWHELMED.) His mom yelled at me for not accepting her son right away, and I told her if she needed an answer right away, it was no. She got really quiet and tried to say I was being hasty, but once I had said no, I felt more and more that I didn't want to marry her son. I yelled at my parents (for the first time) that I was NOT going to marry anyone I didn't love, and started dating the non-cult guy. We've been married for 12 years.
1. I'm happy for you and your husband. Nobody should go through what you did. 2. I don't know how say thiswithout sounding insensitive but this sounds like a movie.
Re: Enemies to lovers: I love what you guys said about Pride & Prejudice because the enemies to lovers stories I like best always take place over a long period of time. That said, I tend to like the trope more in fanfiction as the long-form of it allows for passage of time (similar to how in P&P there was a notable passage of time) rather than a movie where the story only has 2 hours to construct the plot, and while it CAN be done in a movie, it's typically played up as a very fast transformation from enemies to lovers which I don't like. That said, I definitely think the more appropriate term for what I like is Enemies to friends to lovers.
I agree 👍 I like writing fanfic and the characters I ship are "enemies" but I love writing scenes where they get to know each other as people and as friends.
@@nessyness5447 I love beauty and the beast, but i feel like that movie (along with pride & prejudice 2005) is an exception to the general rule that the enemies to lover tropes in movies, while entertaining and successfully touchy-feely, end up portraying unhealthy or toxic attributes and behaviors.
@@MSPula yeah, i def prefer that trope in fics or tv shows that have more time for it. Or movie sagas even . Than one short movie. There are exceptions like the mentioned ones, tho.
I think Groundhog Day is just a little different because he’s a fixer upper but in kind of fixable ways - he’s just kind of selfish and arrogant, not a horrible womanizer or anything. And her character doesn’t like him and rejects him until he learns to do the right thing because it’s the right thing (though each day is a new day so it’s not her love that changes him and she doesn’t know any different each time). I think she has healthy boundaries about that and says no until he’s actually a good person after a year or whatever. Great video though!
I like to think that in Groundhog day one of the main reasons Phil changes is the natural inclination for people that spend a lot of time together to become similar to each other. But unlike real life where both move toward some sort of average, Rita resets back to her starting position every day. As Phil spends more and more time with her he gets pulled closer and closer to her attitudes. I also agree that she was good with her boundaries and I love that he gets her by not trying to get her: he just wanted to do all the good things he could that day.
Yeah, Rita doesn't fix Phil in Groundhog Day. He fixes himself through (10,000) years of realizing being a jerk makes him less happy than being a good person.
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I've always depised the makeover trope, where an already gorgeous girl is given frumpy clothes, glasses or a ponytail, and nobody realises her "True Beauty" until the big reveal. One of the tropes that "Not Another Teen Movie" brilliantly parodied.
Agreed. Every time I see that I think “The fact that beauty is subjective and 80% of the world finds it hard to get that through their heads absolutely baffles me”
Cloudy With A Chance of Meatballs had a pretty good diversion to this trope. It ended with Sam putting her glasses back on and hair in a ponytail.
"That's it, I did it. I'm a miracle worker!!"
Oh no not Janey briggs! She’s got glasses and a ponytail. She’s got paint on her overalls 💀
I want to see the trope done with what really happens. . . Gets make over and people are still a*****s but they get some back handed compliments here and there.
I think the worst romcom trope is the whole “persistence will get you the girl” thing. The main example that comes to mind is the notebook. He keeps asking her out and asking her out, she keeps saying no. Very firm in her answer. Then, only accepts when he threatens to jump off of a Ferris wheel to harm himself. That kind of thing is not romantic, especially in real life.
works for me so yes it is
@MrAranton I don’t believe that’s as common as you’d think…
@MrAranton a good rule of thumb is to take someone at their word. If someone says no to a date, take it as a no. If you’re concerned about someone “testing” you, is that really someone you’d want to start a relationship with? I’d prefer someone to say what they mean and leave tests and games out of it.
@@lindseystein9676 How often did you initiate romantic interactions with a woman? How often have you dated women? I guess the answer to both is zero times, because had you ever done either, you'd know how insanity-inducingly ambiguous women can be in these matters. Besides: Even if she says "no", that doesn't mean it's going to be forever a no. She might have said no because the man caught in a bad mood or at a bad time and might enthusiastically say yes should he ask again under different circumstances. But this is not information women tend to volunteer, so men need to guess whether a no is a hard no or a no that can be turned into a yes.
In the video Jonathan and Allan briefly talked about a man who had a laundry list of expectations. Women have those, too. If you check what women write into dating profiles (things like "if you're shorter than 180cm, I'm not interested, so don't bother to try"), you'll see a lot of them rule out like 95% of the male population before they even talked to them. So: If you're an avarage dude, always respect a no and never try to turn it into a yes, your prospects in the dating world are pretty grim.
Most women have no clue what it means live life as a man. If you tell men to take women at their word when they say no, you're essentially telling the vast majority of them to stay lonely.
Don't get me wrong: I hate the "persistence will get you the girl trope" too. And I do so with a passion; but for different reasons. Most rom-coms I've watched can be summed up like this: "Man falls in love for no apparant reason, she treats him like shit until she doesn't which is considered the happy end and until then he makes a complete and utter fool of himself." Such plots cannot lead to equitable relationships, a woman who accepted a man based on how he bent over backwards to please her even though she acted like a complete and utter cunt towards him, will always see herself as a princess and him as a serf. These movies were not about love or romance, they were female power fantasies, that objectify men at least as badly as movies featuring a harem full of nearly naked females at a man's disposal objectify women. Yet for some reason the former is widely accepted while the latter is consider smutty and frowned upon. And because Romcoms are acceptable, they influence how women approach dating and relationships with men. All I'm saying is: "Ladies, forget that shit, accept that we are human beings, cut us the according and give us an actual chance." and "Gents: Get a back-bone and don't put up with cunty behaviour while dating, or you'll end up being her doormat."
You’re right, I don’t know what it’s like to be a man, but I have asked out and dated a few women before. Luckily I never encountered ones you’re describing. Of course people have expectations, they’re just usually not the shallow examples you’re pointing out. Sure, there are some women who prefer a man taller than her, but it’s really not as militant as you’re portraying. The examples you’re pointing out are definitely in the minority of women. Most women (and people in general) just want someone who isn’t an as*hole, is funny, caring, someone attractive to them (which is very subjective), honest, has job or goal they’re working towards. The women you’re describing who have exact height requirements and play games/“test” men are outliers. It’s more of a movie trope in itself, but some do exist. Honestly, you will piss off and creep out more women by ignoring their ‘no’s’ and keep asking. Again, why would you want a shallow partner like that? Someone who has height requirements, “tests”, or has income requirements are really not the way to go, no matter what they look like. There are plenty of non shallow women out there who would be more than happy with an “average” man.
My least favorite trope: The miscommunication that could have been clarified in 10 seconds, but is now the basis for the near end of movie break-up, because two adult people are not mature enough to have a damn conversation.
Ooo, this gets on my nerves big time!
Like ya'll grown why does have to affect many years or hours in the movie to just make up for it.
When one tiny conversation could fix everything but it just never happens, bah
Honestly more realistic than I'd like to admit
Who in this day and age knows how to have a conversation?! People are supposed to just know what I'm thinking without needing me to spell it out!
(and how I wish this comment was thoroughly sarcastic, but I have the misfortune to know too many people like that...)
Been doing search and rescue for 7 years now and only once did I ever encounter a wolf and woman at the same time. Not only was this very much not the time to ask her out, (She had just been lost in the woods for 3 days and had a near death experience) but honestly the whole wolf pack wasn't very interested in us other than we were making a lot of noise, and they were trying to sleep.
This is one of the funniest things I've ever read.
Wolves in movies: humans are food!
Wolves in real life: ugh humans are noisy
😂
A wolf tried snatching up my Yorkie 😢😂
@@emjhendrickson8290 oof that must have been scary .
I once read this text post that basically said: "The way love triangles are often written is kind of bad because it's two people backing someone into a corner, and it's usually a woman." Blew my mind.
Yup. It almost always involves two people of the same gender (often dudes, though not always) laying 'claim' to their romantic interest and NEVER EVER EVER ASKING WHAT THEY WANT OR RESPECTING THEM ENOUGH TO BACK OFF AND LET THEM DECIDE.
@@DimaRakesah what I've seen a bunch of times is the "we both love you, and even though you never thought about (at least) one of us that way, you have to decide now"... And she always chooses the dude she didn't even like romantically in the first place... And there was no shift in perspective, nothing...
The "love corner" or "love angle", is absolutely horrible... The (or rather my assumed) reason we don't see a real love triangle in common media is because it'd involve some level of queerness, which the cinema isn't ready for apparently...
@@nikk-named i mean, the Hollywood love triangle is a valid triangle, its just that the 3rd leg is hate.
@@DimaRakesah thats one of the things i respected about the note book - i mean theres misogyny in the movie 100% not the best romantic reference but when shes choosing between the two, both men respected her decision and understood that it was up to her to make that call.
I didn’t realize how bland Eric was until I watched the Broadway version of the little mermaid where he seems more sincere as they actually spend time together, he teaches Ariel how to dance so they can bond without words, and he was still chasing this voice throughout the story, but they had a different climax where there’s a singing contest to win Eric’s hand in marriage, and Ariel rushes in and is gonna be escorted out while everyone else laughs because they know she can’t compete, but then Eric stops them and is like “No wait, go ahead” and she does the little dance step they did together and he realizes he’s been looking in the wrong places and wants to be with her, and when he announces her as the winner Ursula tries to use Ariel’s voice in the distance to lure him away, but he chooses to dismiss it and run to Ariel for the almost before sunset but not quite kiss, and movie Eric could’ve been at least a little better, that is all
That sounds like a complete rewrite that dramatically improves it. I'd be curious to see that.
Oh man! that's way more better!
The movie Eric was dumb and needed fish to sing to him - it's the best song of the movie but "Kiss the Girl" was something that she could have communicated with body language if Ariel had been listening to Ursula at all.
Holy crap that is AWESOME! Much better than the movie!
I love that this. It's so much better than the film
I like how in the original non disney version of The Little Mermaid she goes through the transformation for the prince to still choose another girl. Her sisters response to this is 'kill him'. Seems more legit and true to life.
Idk I think I’m the only person on earth who likes the Disney one.
In all fairness, they were telling her to kill him so she could turn back into a mermaid and not have to turn into sea foam. As a kid I was always so annoyed that she didn’t kill him. I thought that would’ve been a pretty nifty twist
@@otterzrkuhl you like what you like! But it's also good to recognize unhealthy relationships for what they are.
But she rather let herself die, or better become an "air spirit" and help poor souls for 300 years to earn going to heaven.
She couldn't hurt the prince because she loved him and he was happy. He was kind to her but only saw her as a friend or a ward.
Also, the story is an allegory of Andersen's omosexuality. He was probably in love with a man who ended up marrying a woman.
Doesn’t she also become foam?
I love telling people this story:
My parents HATED each other when they first met. They worked at the same college, my dad in the cafeteria and my mum in the registrar, and one of my mum's benifits was that she could have free drinks from the cafeteria, but my dad was new and didnt know this, so when she came in to grab a coke and leave, he said "are you going to pay for that?" and she said, "hmm nope," and then just left. For like 2 months after that, they couldnt stand each other. He thought she was this lawless b*tch, and she thought he was uptight and a jerk. Then my dad was talking to his buddy about a redhead that worked up in the admin office, and the buddy THOUGHT he was talking about my mum, but he wasnt. Anyway, they get set up on a date by the buddy, get there for the movie and dinner, and he is... shocked, to say the least. My mum was like, "why is this prick asking me out? Whatever. Free dinner." And dad was like, "wait, this is the wrong redhead!" Long story short, they ended up going dancing after the dinner and they had a bit of fun, did a few more dates where they started to tolerate each other, and then were married 3 months after the first date. They have been married for almost 30 years now and they get on great, most of the time. They still argue a lot over petty stuff, but they do ultimately enjoy each other's company.
I love this!!!
This is BEAUTIFUL
Ok, THAT'S one of the few times the miscommunication trope would actually work and be believable 😅
So, when/how did they clear up the misunderstanding?
But.... _did_ they ever get that very first miscommunication worked out? 😂
Gotta admit, I've got a soft spot for the "enemies to lovers" story, but only if there's a "platonic friendship" stage in between. Also, it works a lot better in series where you have more time for them to sort out their differences and slowly start to connect.
When Harry Met Sally does this really well.
I'm always more okay with this trope if they earn it. Give me some time to watch them, let them actually talk and grow, THEN they can be lovers or partners. And just one scene doesn't count lol
Yeah, i do like it , but more in shows were there is more time to develope it.
@@TaheerahA Exactly the example that came to mind.
In my opinion, there’s two types of enemies to lovers: one is ‘opposing people learn how to reconcile their differences and then build a relationship from that’, and the other is ‘you are a horrible person but you have a great ass so I’m going to do a ton of unreciprocated emotional labor to “make” you change even though you treat me like shit, and this will somehow work out in the end’. One of them is an interesting and sometimes heartwarming plot, the other is abuse mentality with a pretty coat of paint.
I love Princess Bubblegum's take on love at first sight: "“What you're feeling is called infatuation. The pain is the product of you overvaluing a projected, imaginary relationship with me.”"
Talking about great romantic cartoon moments, Gravity Falls has FANTASTIC romantic arcs that taught me really important lessons that spared me a lot of awkwardness in my pre-teen and teenager years. The scene I love the most has to be the rejection between Wendy and Dipper. Rejections are usually like the worst thing that can happen to a character and their portrayed like these apocalyptic events that will completely ruin the character's life. Gravity Falls rejects this notion and shows that just because someone rejects you it doesn't mean that the world's over, or that you need to stop being friends with them. And to top it all of, Dipper teaches this lesson to Gideon by the end of the series. "If I've learned anything this summer, it's that you can't force someone else to love you". Gravity Falls is my favorite animated series, it has amazing lore and worldbuilding, hidden codes and subliminal messages, really creative and original concepts, but it also has really important emotional lessons that other shows didn't really dive to deep into. I love that series.
💕
@@qwertydavid8070 Gravity Falls is amazing! I want Cinema Therapy to cover the Dipper/Wendy dynamic. It's so beautiful animated overall that Alan might enjoy it as well.
@@qwertydavid8070 you've just sold me on gravity falls - I'm off to watch it
@@qwertydavid8070 omg Gravity Falls was so good but that moment was AMAZING! I loved it so much, so many kids cartoons would have the crush of the main character... when the characters are practically
Toddlers?!
So seeing a healthy rejection and dealing with it was so great. Wendy is one of my fave chars
The best "makeover" handling was in Nanny McPhee: scullery maid Evangeline gets a makeover and nobody recognises her - except Cedric, who already loved her and says "She's always looked like that."
That part melted my heart
I also liked how it wasn’t to change her to change her. It was to prevent their sibling(s) from being taken away.
People of a certain status have to dress and speak a certain way. Being with their aunt allowed her to have the education she wanted, but she stayed true to who she was.
YO NANNY MCPHEE WAS MY SHIT but yes! I totally agree it was such a great film and everything that is the only “makeover”I accept
That is such an underrated movie!
Nanny McPhee was such a boss. That movie was awesome. I'll have to watch it again soon. It's been way too long.
The thing with Grease is, Danny actually *did* start to do his own transformation and become a more real person for Sandy. He started getting to the point where he no longer wanted to keep putting on this facade for his friends and be more honest with himself and those around him. But then the movie does a 180 on this soon as Sandy changes herself at the end (which if they had just kept going with Danny's change, Sandy's would've been unnecessary and they both would be in a more honest relationship), and they basically just threw all of that development for him out the window.
I find the ending of Grease so frustrating because it’s so close to a great resolution: Sandy and Danny both try to completely change for one another, realize this when they see each other, then laugh and resolve to stop worrying about how everyone else sees them and just be their genuine selves, restarting their relationship from a place of honesty and self-confidence…
But no, instead Danny takes one look at leather-pants Sandy, decides that her being the one to completely change is great actually, and immediately reverts back to his cool-guy persona. He tears off his white jersey and tosses it aside, and then moments later we see him back in his trademark leather jacket, with Sandy hanging off his arm from the passenger seat of his car as he drives off, the coolest kid in school who has learned absolutely nothing about self-worth.
@@kaniamiawell done
@@kaniamia perfectly said
I would have to add that they both changed but people focus on Sandy - he is wearing a knit gardigan or whatever it's called and boys pick on him for wearing that. I believe that's why Sandy says "tell me about it, studd" as she notices that she also changed. I think it goes unnoticed because he didn't do a dramatic change and also takes off the gardigan for the dance scene.
Fun fact about Matthew McConaughey: he was so sick of doing rom-com acting that he took a multi-year hiatus and refused dozens of offers because he was ONLY offered rom-com movie leads. He waited until he was offered anything outside of the genre.
And that's when True Detective and Interstellar happened.
It sucks getting typecast in a role that you HATE! Glad it worked out for him so he could continue to flex-act at us with how awesome he is.
@@prince_nocturne Good point, I could imagine that some characters are fun to play again and again - some nerdy scientist ending up in an adventure, a soldier being forced to face the inglorious financial interests behind the war he's fighting ... anything but not something so predictable and repetitive as "rom-com hero"; you might just as well play the exact same character over and over.
#RESPECT 👏👏👏
@@Julia-lk8jn That's why I feel bad for actors that you only see in Hallmark movies
"I’ve become skeptical of the unwritten rule that just because a boy and girl appear in the same feature, a romance must ensue. Rather, I want to portray a slightly different relationship, one where the two mutually inspire each other to live - if I’m able to, then perhaps I’ll be closer to portraying a true expression of love."
- Hayao Miyazaki.
Love is not just an emotion. Love is a promise, a promise help each other, not hurt each other. (Paraphrasing from Doctor Who)
We don't deserve Hayoa Miyazaki
I don't agree with the second one. my ex loved me but she hurt me also and she did not help either most of the time.
@Day I think you have a point because I doubted her intentions as well but I think of married couples that are really toxic but there is still lots of love with that. I think people just have personalities that don't help them out when it comes to love but they still love regardless.
@Day thank you!!
The "read more" cut off the end of the quote and I was thinking to myself "Huh, this sounds like a Ghibli movie"
A big romantic gesture for me was when I told my partner, during conversations over the years that we'd been together, that I did not want to be proposed to in public. I did NOT want a big song and dance and I really disliked it when the parents are asked for permission *barf*. One morning about a year ago I woke up to my guy kneeling beside the bed with a ring. When he asked me to marry him I was comfy, cosy and warm in our bed. I said yes, and then I asked him to marry me. He said yes too. He told my family beforehand what he was going to do. It was respectful, a courtesy, but it wasn't seeking permission. It was perfect.
Aww, adorable.
that's so adorable omg it reminded me of "about time" 🥺
I can relate to this. My husband proposed to me in our livingroom with no one around and it was such a relief. I hate being the center of attention and big romantic gestures make me feel awkward.
Lovely! I also would not want a public proposal. It's like inflicting public peer pressure on the one being proposed to. What if you feel pressured to say yes just so you don't embarrass them?
My sister once said that public proposals should be considered a type of hostage situation and I can’t help but agree 😂
Your spouse’s way sounds way sweeter!
I had an experience having highly disliked someone that turned into a romantic interest. I started a new job. This guy was assigned to help me with something. He was so horrible and nasty the whole time, and apparently thought I was too bubbly and I got on his nerves. So we severely didn't like each other. Until one evening I was working late at my end of the office and didn't know he was working late in his workspace at the other end of the office, so I had my music up and was singing to the top of my lungs. He comes walking in with a smirk and we just started chatting. Turns out the song I was singing was his literal favorite song and he was drawn to come see who was singing. Then he saw I had a picture of my favorite artist at the time, Garth Brooks, on my screen saver who was one of his favorite artists. Turns out his mom had died just days before I started at the job. So my perky was clashing with his grieving and that's why his attitude was so bad at that time. He was actually a really nice, sweet guy and I liked him a lot. We didn't end up together; but, it felt like a seismic shift at the time. 😊
This story serves as a proof to what I thought about this "haters to lovers" trope after watching the video.
It can easily turn into love if the hate was based on false facts, lies and misperceptions. Which happened in your story.
The one moment when there is no chance to turn into lovers is when "the hate" is based on a factual material and you absolutely can't stand the things, and these things are cemented into other person's personality, so they are not some accidental things that can happen to any of us in our long lived lives, they are reality.
To give some credit to the animated Beauty and the Beast, the wolf attack scene is not there to serve as a romantic gesture, but for Beast to act in an altruistic, selfless way for the first time in the movie. And it doesn’t cause Belle to fall in love with him, but to see him as a human rather than a monster. A flawed human for sure, and he has much more work to do before anything close to a romantic connection can happen, but it’s the first step on his journey in the film.
Yeah, feeding the cute birdies with her causes her to fall in love with him. LOL XD
I don't know about that. Right before that scene she goes into the west wing, he screams at her to get out and she leaves the castle. Not just the wing. He chases after her, probably to drag her back there. The wolf attack was a lucky break for Beast. That doesn't happen and he's dragging Belle back to his castle kicking and screaming.
Exactly, she doesn't start really developing romantic feelings for him until after he lets her go back home. Sure, there's affection, but it wasn't really romantic before that because as friendly as they were, she was still trapped there. She does se good things about him, but still only sees him as a friend.
I agree with you. I see it as him sort of reclaiming his humanity in a sense. Because then he shifted from being this Monster, to being somebody who is capable of being caring and selfless. It shows that he wasn't going to let a person die if he could help it, the motivation itself was not a romantic one. This helps steer Belle into a friendship with the Beast, but she does not fall in love with him there.
Exactly. That’s how I’ve always seen it
A trope I hate soo much in romcoms is the "giving up everything for them" thing. There is that Nicholas Cage movie, where he is a literal angel, who gives up immortality just to be with the love interest.
You shouldn't be giving up everything for your partner, it's damn unhealthy to not have boundaries.
Yeah and then she dies. Fucking bullshit. I hate that movie.
And also, you shouldn't want your partner to give up everything for you--as in, you shouldn't demand someone change to fit your ideal (if they can't "live up to" your standards, you should be looking for a different partner), and if they're offering to give up everything for you...run. That's obsessive and they're not going to have healthy boundaries later.
Surprisingly though, I'd say that's one of the more realistic ones. Off the top of my head, I think about a lot of my fellow LGBT+ friends who had to leave their narrowminded families if they wanted to love their partners authentically. It can send the wrong message, but sometimes I get it.
@@akiramakara2062 Good point, but I do think that that is pretty different to my example. It is one thing to make sacrifices because external pressure forces you to, and another to have those pressures come from your partner.
@@botondhetyey159 Just wanted to point out that I've seen that movie and it was not the love interest that forces him to give up being an angel. It was his angel "family" and he did it before she even got to meet him. So, your example was not different. However, you are 100% right that we shouldn't have to give up everything for your partner and that boundaries are healthy :)
As a woman who wears glasses I always HATED the glasses = "not hot" trope. I therefore stubbornly never got contacts and made it my goal to make glasses werk for me
As a curly haired woman with glasses, I have it even worse. Cause I'm always sent the message that if I straighten my hair and wear contacts I'll suddenly be beautiful.
‘Why my dear, you are beautiful’… 🤮🤮🤮
Same here, now I love glasses 💙
Glasses are sexy. Always thought so. Always will. Honestly I was shocked first time I heard someone say that glasses were not attractive.
@@VidralliaArchives It's a social construct perpetuated by the media.
This whole video is probably why my favorite romantic comedy of all time is My Big Fat Greek Wedding. Coming as a girl with a big crazy family who used to eat ethnic food that made the other girls go 'ewww what is that' (its liver. its delicious. you don't know what you're missing.) and went through an awkward phase as a teenager I could really relate to Tula. She and Ian are just so cute, I love how they seem to genuinely get along and enjoy each other's company and her big thing is like 'omg i love my family but they're so embarrassing' and he is just so down for the whole experience and doesn't just tolerate it half heartedly he throws himself in so completely he's the one leading the dance at the end and he doesn't just win her over, he wins the whole family over. By just being a nice, decent, good person. There's no bad boy backstory, he's just a nice guy who wanted to meet a 'real' girl and Tula isn't the 'not like other girls trope' she's a pretty, funny travel agent who loves her job and her family, wears cute girly clothes and makes him laugh. They're such a great team and I really wish more romantic comedies had couples like them.
I love the couple, but upon rewatching the movie I noticed how toxic her family is, especially her dad. Some of his behavior is inexcusable and so childish. I think Ian and Toula have to accept too much from them, simply because the family refuses to evolve.
Their controlling behavior is presented as love. But if you really love someone, you should be able to listen and learn.
It's a wonderful movie though, and I still love it.
@@BellaMusical oh for sure! thats why I like that the movie presents his behavior as wrong too and part of the story is him learning to change too if he wants to keep his daughter.
Toula and Ian definitely have more patience with it than I would've lol
Funnily enough, my neighbors who are this big Italian family did the same thing when their son got married a decade ago and bought him the house right across the street from them.
8:45 I have been saved FROM a man BY a wolf. My parents had wolves, random guy showed up in the yard and started talking to kid-me. Wolves didn't like how the guy was walking toward me and surrounded me baring their teeth at him. He wisely decided to move on. Lol
Wait. Why did they have wolves?
Best twist ever
@@nicolasdiaz1542 I was too young to really know all the reasons in full but my guess is mainly because we had 10 acres of land in the middle of nowhere.
Edit: we didn't have a bunch of them. We had two adults and their pup. That's it.
I want to see THAT movie!!
@@zenfrodo SECONDED.
In Ariel’s defense, she wanted to be a human before seeing Eric. He was just the final push, along with a pretty traumatic event involving her father destroying everything she had collected in a really violent manner. They were objects, but for her, they were priceless, and he destroyed it all.
Agreed.
Yes! Destroying belongings is a type of abuse. The music in that movie is great, but the story is terrible.
Eric falling for Ariel I think was more than just a pretty face. I'm not sure what the term would be but she saved his life. So her saving his life, while he was in a daze yes she was beautiful and had a beautiful voice (siren?) made him enamored by her. Then he sees her and she doesn't have a voice, even though he feels deflated you can tell he kinda still identifies her as his savior (he's correct but he just doesn't know it). But the days he spends with her he falls in love with her expressions and her excitement for everything they do. She seems to make everything fun for him and even grimsby said something about him not smiling in weeks, so she makes him happy and makes him laugh. He then encourages more because he takes her out and about to try more new things. She didn't need to speak for him to enjoy her company, he enjoyed her emotions, excitement and reactions and was willing to entertain anything she wanted to do (he showed her around but she even ends up pulling him around pointing to things she wants to do and he let her yank him around.) So it definitely was more than Eric just fell in love with a pretty face, that definitely was apart of it but not the only thing.
Huge agree like Ariel was a collector she studied humans as much as she was able and her dad didn’t give af he thought it was dangerous and tried to destroy the physical manifestation of it with the collection (i kinda remember him doing something or saying something along those lines)
YES YES YES! My favourite princess since childhood😍
One I hate is the "oh I don't want romance" or "I don't need a man/woman" character that ALWAYS ends up getting hitched. Maybe it's because I'm aromantic, and im just tired of people thinking I'll get hitched, when I make it clear I have no interest, but it just heavily implies that romance is the ONLY way to be truly happy.
Ironically if you really feel the way you say you feel, you actually have a healthy understanding that you don't "need" another person to be truly happy and that's why you are MORE LIKELY to end up happily married over those who elevate their idea of a perfect spouse to god-like level perfection and the only way for fulfillment and worth.
Hugs to you “Who knows at this point”. My daughter also doesn’t follow into stereotypes when it come to romance. May you find your way to surround yourself with the people who become your chosen family, in whatever form that needs to take.
A-FREAKING-MEN-
@@kwalker123 pls be my mom
@@pineddew A wise man once told me, "Family don't end in blood." And some times it need not start with blood either. May the Creator bless and keep you on your journey.
My favorite “love triangle” is when two guys like the same girl but are still cordial to each other and are just bros and mostly just want the girl to be happy
That reminds me of The Book of Life lol like they do petty fights now and then but at the end of the day they're all best friends
Then you NEED to read Dracula. Lucy Westenra has three suitors who all love her, and she loves them to some degree, but they're also best friends. When Lucy choose to accept Arthur Holmwood's proposal, Quincey Morris sends him a letter saying he and Jack Seward want to have a bros night out and celebrate their friend's happiness.
@@erikbjelke4411 YES! That was something that genuinely surprised me in the book, and it was so wholesome and positive!
Honestly that "you want to spend another 3 hours seeing him improve" is why I think romances work better in TV or a serial format, since you can have more time spent on characters actually improving.
Or watch them relapse.
Absolutely yes.
I think that kind of, sort of happened in the last two seasons of Buffy, with something that started out as a stalkerish obsession, than turned into really unhealthy wild sex ... and then after one massive act of self-change *still* took an entire season to turn first into friendship, possibly romantic love.
And wasn't that an element in Californication, too? Only watched one episode of that.
I love tv-shows with season-spanning story arcs, it allows for so much better story telling.
This is why I prefer tv, in general, over movies. Especially if I really like the characters and 90 minutes is not enough lol
the trial and error component is what the movie should be about
Yeah, really the most damning thing about rom coms is you go the whole movie getting jerked around about it, and then when you finally get to the actual good and interesting bit, i.e. the actual RELATIONSHIP, the movie's over! Like c'mon I want to see what these people are like as a couple at least a little!
"As a woman, how do you feel about watching love triangles?"
It's almost painful. I've never been in one, but I've seen them play out and it's not pretty. It's about 32 flavors of uncomfortable. Somebody always gets hurt, there's a lot of jealousy flying around, it ruins relationships (platonic and otherwise) and the person who's being fought over is between a rock and a hard place and is the one who ultimately has to hurt somebody's feelings.
I don't want to experience any of that. It's also why I give a wide berth to men who are so much as _vaguely interested_ in another woman.
Yeah, love triangles suck IRL and in movies. My husband and his best friend both liked me in high school but I only ever showed interest in my husband and yet his friend saw it as I liked him first cause I had met him first??? Anyway, clearly things didn't go well. I chose my husband, his friend chose to call me a backstabbing whore, and then his friend ran away and got a therapist cause I "ruined him". It was like- WTF?!!!
I completely agree with you. Love triangles are totally unrealistic and usually don't happen in real life, and when they do, it's way messier than what is shown on TV and movies. Like, if I were in that situation were it was between me and another woman, CHOOSE THE OTHER WOMAN.
@@NoOneReallySpecial That is honestly BS. Like. Blaming you for something that you can't control and never tried to tell him any different. I have always hated watching love triangles for many, many reasons but IRL ones... are still worse.
Oh it’s the most painful and cringiest thing. It’s never pretty, it’s never civil. Someone always loses and is usually petty or resentful about it and the other two almost never can go without feeling guilt. Hate it hate it
As someone who’s been the point of a triangle, run. They don’t love themselves.
25:40 - One bit of 'Pride and Prejudice' that the movies leave out because it would be boring but which is very healthy is that when Mr. Darcy comes round with the "so, can I try proposing again?" scene, they don't just agree to get married but go on a walk and actually talk through their previous misunderstanding!
It's in the series though. And it's good!
i dont remember the book and i couldnt watch the older movie - but the joe wright movie is brilliant because the second time you watch it you can clearly see how she and yourself totally misunderstood darcy's character. hes just different and behaves different and people who dont understand that misinterpreted his intentions. My housemate is similar - hes totally different and i thought he was a dick when i met him but it turns out thats not the case and we're friends now. its not just a great romance story but its also a great life lesson - stop making snap judgements of people.
@@floopyboo Absolutely! The 8 ep series with Colin Firth is wonderful. I highly recommend!
@@ellie_sarabellum it was amazing, I’ve read the book so many times and loved that the series quoted so many lines of dialogue from the book. It was so well done.
Love that version of pride and prejudice!
i'm surprised you didn't mention how like 90% of all rom coms are about the 'chase' aspect of relationships and they usually end after they get together. one of my favourite films is true romance for the opposite reason because it *starts* with them getting together and the rest of the film is about how they communicate and interact with eachother and deal with their problems
one of my favorite books of all times is a trilogy series that tackles every part of real romance! in the first book they meet and gradually fall in love in a real tangible way, and then get together at the end, after a really traumatic climatic final battle. in the second book its them having to deal with the reality of starting a relationship while also dealing with the trauma of their adventure from the first book, the male lead has a rough past with an alcoholic mother and he wants to become a therapist, and so the entire conflict between them is really well done bc neither of them are straight up fucking villains, theyre just traumatized young adults trying to cope. He starts to overcompensate for their trauma by becoming overprotective, and the female lead starts to see inklings of another battle on the horizon but the hints end up melding with ptsd symptoms that make it clear shes not doing well, she doesnt focus on her health and instead saving the world essentially and her boyfriend is rightly worried. They both are valid but acting unhealthily, and its just SO complex and well written. By the third book theyre able to come together and see where they were both in the wrong and reconcile their relationship while also saving the damn world and its just really beautiful written and quite literally two of the best and most unique leads in a romantic fantasy i have ever read, hands down tied with my other favorite book series as my number ones
@@ariannebrodeur What series is this?! That sounds right up my alley.
what's the name of this film?
I herd a quote that was something along the lines of "love triangles in movies/tv aren't usually triangles, they're Vs and the woman is backed into the corner of it." And I think that's pretty accurate.
This. And going like "ok, is nobody going to ask my opinion on all of this?"
That is because there needs to be a gay for there to be a triangle and unfortunately there aren't a lot of film companies brave enough to have a gay that is actually an important part of the story. I want an asexual in the corner and two gays competing for the ace to impress each other.
@@brookenash8729 twelfth night managed to make a true love triangle that was technically straight but there’s definitely gay undertones
Whether it's with 2 guys or 2 girls, I think you're right. An actual love triangle in a literal sense would probably be a lot more... polygamous, rather than competitive. You have two competitors and one prize. Actually I'm going to use those terms to make this more clear.
I've made the mistake of getting into a "love triangle" in high school, where it was a lot more of a versus. The only solution was to end both attachments, because attempting to build a relationship with either competitor afterwards just left the prize feeling unrectifiable doubt over if they made the right decision, since they now viewed each option as simply that: an option.'
And as for the competitors, they were left wondering if they'd ever be enough for the prize, even if they already had gotten picked. In this instance, the prize actually dated each competitor individually afterwards too. Both ended exactly the same way: realizing that there was no love, and the most that either the competitor or prize was there for was physical satisfaction.
Ever since then I've formed a very strong sense of "if they aren't willing to choose now, then neither they, or you, will be happy when they do." The post-relationships where they were one-on-one didn't end well for anyone, and only caused more pain for every person involved since there was:
A) "Did I pick the right one, and have I already hurt them irreparably?" - The One Who Picked
B) "Am I enough for them, and will they stay with me?" - The One Who Got Picked
C) "Why wasn't I good enough for them?" - The One Who Didn't Get Picked
If it makes a difference, I was the one being fought over. And that's something I still haven't forgiven myself for.
@@silverfoxspectre OMG. Not a movie, but The Bachelor or The Bachelorette reality romcom, love thirty_odd_angle. These people are making out with multiple partners within days (or hours) of making their fateful choices. Ew. 🤢🤮🙄
I had a first hand experience with why rom com tropes are terrible and how they truly do influence people. I was basically Kiera Knightly in Love Actually, except the guy was singing to me. This was also my "love triangle moment". I had to be honest with him. I told him we could be friends but that was it, that the person I was with (who is now my husband) is the one I wanted to spend my life with. For whatever reason, he wasn't convinced that I had no romantic feelings for him. After I rejected him, he showed up at my house with his guitar in hand. I found myself thinking, "what kind of shitty rom com am I stuck in?" I hated it. It was uncomfortable and frustrating. I didn't want to hurt this person, but it also infuriated me that they truly believed that they could show up on my door step and win me over with some big "romantic" gesture, completely disrespecting not just my boyfriend (who by the way was with me when this happened), but also disrespecting me. It was a huge red flag and it led me to break off the friendship. If you are wondering what my spouse (who was my boyfriend at the time) did when this happened: he did nothing. He let me handle it. And if anything this reaffirmed my love for him even more because life is not a rom com. I don't want guys engaging in melee over me. I'm not property, I'm not a trophy. He doesn't need to win me in a pissing contest.
Good on you! So many men (and women) think they're entitled to you and they're not. Your scenario should be put in more movies.
I think your husbands response showed that he respected your ability to handle the situation while also backing you up.
Bravo 👏 preach it girl!!
Wow. I'm honestly impressed that your husband didn't get involved. So many people get possessive of their spouse, and jump at the opportunity to claim them. It's so admirable that he loved and respected you enough to stay back, let you handle it, and be there for emotional support. And it's also admirable on your part, that you saw the situation for what it was (a sad attempt to win you like a prize, and not some grand romantic gesture.) Its so nice to see that real love and partnership is attainable, if you work for it.
My previous roommate had what she thought was an amicable breakup, they were friends for a few months after but when she started dating someone new (who she's still with 4 years later and seems super happy) he started asking for her back. She told him she wasn't interested and really wanted to just stay friends like they previously agreed. He showed up on valentines to serenade her and give her flowers in the morning. She was sobbing in her room and said she was really uncomfortable about the whole thing. Rom coms are cute as movies and stories, not real life.
Jono said "My big romantic gesture is cleaning the whole kitchen." and I dead ass SCREAMED bc that is so TRUE and REAL
Omg, yes! If I get home and a chore has been done, I feel respected and loved because they took something off my pile of chores.
This reminds me of a scene in Fleabag where a guy sinceres with the protagonist about what he wants and says "I want to take clean cups out of the dishwasher and put them in the cupboard at home...... and the next morning, I want to watch my wife drink from them."
Not sure how much of a romantic gesture it is if you clean the kitchen in 15 minunes where SHE spend 2 hours preparing dinner before.
@@andreasu.3546 I can honestly tell you, no matter how much time it takes me to make dinner, someone cleaning the kitchen instead of me is a romantic( from the spouse) or sweet(from the kids) gesture and is very much appreciated. Don't tear down something you wouldn't appreciate.
@@heathercontois4501 Well good for you. However, I think in 2022, males doing household chores is not a romantic gift but something you can expect in a relationship.
This is why I love the development Ariel and Eric get in the remake. They’re both hoarders lol and they crave adventure and are curious about the world beyond their homes. They have stuff in common and they spend hours n hours in Eric’s study learning about stuff. She’s eager to see the maps and wants to know about all those lil artifacts n stuff and he is more than happy to share those with her because no one else in his life takes an interest ❤
They are boring without Chemestry
The most important part Eric was a genuinely great guy, unlike other princes
Good point. It's hard to find someone to geek out with. That was 1 of the main reasons I dated a guy. We connected through art, and I still relish those moments.
This is why I love the original fairy tale. He ends up marrying someone else and she dies and becomes sea foam. Make over didn’t work. Too bad.
There's no heart and soul to the remake, the music isn't excellent like in the first movie, BUUUUUUT I loved that they made Eric more like a real person and they showed a real relationship forming! None of the old "he/she's very pretty, which means I love him/her, let's get married tomorrow!" crap. Also it was great in the Frozen movie everyone tells Anna it's a bad idea to marry a man she just met. 😂
“They think they’ve changed but they actually haven’t done the work” - this right here is exactly it and what I needed to hear in the 48 hours post break-up. That statement sums up our relationship perfectly.
I'm really sorry you're suffering. I hope the new perspective helps and that you can move forward.
I'm also very sorry. That must've hurt a lot. I wish for you to meet someone nice and caring in your future. 💜
humans dont change. they just get really good at convincing themselves and others that they have. at their core they will always be who they truly are.
@@serenityq26 I think humans have the capacity to change, but that it is a constant work and if left unattended we can regress toward what worked in the past.
I've got a friend who might have been saved BY wolves from a human stalker, does that count? She said she was out hiking in the cascades, and there was a guy following her along the trail, and every time she caught sight of him he would backtrack out of sight, and it really started to creep her out. And a group of wolves went running down the trail passed her at one point, and she didn't see him again after that. She thinks that seeing wolves scared him away, but she is super sure that he was trailing her. She reported the whole thing to the cops, but she never heard back.
Even just being passed by wolves is incredible! They're normally human-shy, aren't they? Whether or not it was the wolves that scared him off, I'm glad your friend is safe now.
@@pearlofthedarkage mhmm i have seen wolves before but usually far away and im in a car. Where my grandparents lived there were several wolf packs out there so we got to hear them howling at the moon at night and it was nice to fall asleep to
Good job wolves!
@@pearlofthedarkage Usually very human shy!
I know (well met, on a holliday) a guys that was saved from wolves! But het was saved by his horse
The wolves are preferable, glad they were able to help!
Okay, I do want to point out that in 10 Things I Hate About You, Heath Ledger's character did do the right thing by not kissing Cat while she was shit-faced and vulnerable.
Precisely, he didn't take advantage of a drunk girl, but I was also a little confused as to WHY she got super mad at him for NOT kissing her under the influence!
Yeah, me too. It's totally okay that Cat was embarrassed, but she should have been the one who had to do a musical number to mend fences🥰🥰
@@trinaq She wasn't thinking straight and thought she was being insulted. Surprised she managed to remember it after thr booze wore off.
Correct. But also that should be as normal as breathing and therefore not something you notice.
Unfortunatly the bar for decency is in hell.
@@trinaq Cause she felt rejected. She wasn't really angry at him she was agry at herself for letitng someone else in and having that door slammed in her face (as she saw is). There was no win there, he made the right decision the lesser of two evils.
That said he could have been a bit more upfront about it.
"Look I really do want to kiss you but I want to be sure it's you who wants to kiss me not just the alchohol."
One of my least favorite things about rom coms is "being mean is flirting" which is sooo common especially like 2010's era. It's not exactly enemies to lovers because they don't generally dislike each other, they just say mean things. And it's so persistent across the genre that for a long time in my youth I thought that that's just what flirting was. Anyway, the first time I tried it it didn't work, I just confused this poor guy, and the memory haunts me to this day.
Anyone but you. Ben harasses Bea all the time and her sister refers to it as flirting!
That's on point. I wouldn't accept that as flirt too.
I once asked my mother if she believes in love at first sight. Her response stuck with me for years: "No, but I believe in love at first conversation."
I feel that. That’s how it felt on my first date with my now husband. He was the only person I’d ever felt completely myself around and who I was attracted too at the same time. And we could talk for hours and it felt like minutes. Usually with a cute guy, I always felt awkward, like I had to adjust who I was to please them.
Thats how my fiance woed me. He is fantastic person.
I met my husband on myspace, so I totally feel this.
I despise “Enemies to Lovers”.
Now, “Enemies to FRIENDS to Lovers”? I eat that up every single time.
And like they said in the video, I think this trope works best over a long period of time. It also works best when the foundation of their hatred, the very ideas that make the two characters enemies, is wrong. It’s when these characters start to communicate and truly get to know each other that they realize that the other is not so bad after all. And then, and ONLY then, perhaps romantic feelings could grow.
i dont think it works at all. When have you heard of two people who knew each other since childhood falling in love. Also unrelated but in regards to the "trope" of "woman has to change who she is to get the guy" they're assuming (wrongly) that who a woman is has to be centered around how she looks. But if a woman who dresses in sweaters and corduroys decides to change her style to attract a particular guy, her personality and brain didn't get swapped out with her clothing. She's very likely, unless she's very uncharacteristically suggestible as a person, to have her own mind and interests still.
This comment reminded me of the movie "Life as we know it" amazing movie if anyone has not seen it I do recommend it. Might not be the best movie and I know the main actress has like a weird reputation but it is literally this. They hate each other--> tolerate each other--> actually start liking each other as people until they eventually catch feelings and want to be together
i love the "they have tons of misdirected sexual tension that comes out as bickering. and everyone around them except for themselves can see it and goddammit just kiss already pls put us out of our misery"
and the "they're on opposite sides of a cause but both come from the same place and have lots in common. after hearing each other out, one of them either switches allegiances or they realize both sides are in the wrong and go off to do their own thing"
also "bc of a series of humorous misunderstandings and accidents (bc character B is really clumsy and also A is very attractive and its distracting), A thinks B hates them. B keeps trying to apologize but keeps making it worse. until one day they finally sit down and have a proper conversation which ends in them holding hands and planning their next coffee date"
or "they're rivals (usually sports rivals but we take any work/school environment) who dont like each other. one day they have a convo and realize they have a lot in common, and they eventually end up as lovers. they still compete but now it's all friendly. and filled with sexual tension"
and!!! "they're very different people on the surface and as a result always clash with each other. but they like actually talk and find out they're very similar deep down. they become friends with a newfound respect for one another, get some character development, and bam. lovers."
these are just some of my fave but im sure there's tons more. enemies to lovers is my all-time fave trope and i will live and die by it
@@greatpower6063 "When have you heard of two people who knew each other since childhood falling in love" ...prior to the early/mid-1900s nearly everyone who married knew each other as kids? If you never travel more than 10 miles in your entire life, your dating pool is kind of limited. All my relatives in my parents' generation and older knew their partners for their whole lives.
Agree
Best description I’ve heard of why love at first sight doesn’t work: “Attraction is what you see. Infatuation is what you feel. Love is what you know.”
Isn't that from a Jehovah's Witness propaganda video? It is a legitimate point, but its origin is questionable.
100%. Lust, attraction and infatuation are far too often confused for love and its sad. It's a good point that unfortunately has to be made
@@aurora_skye Good advice is good advice. Don't forget; plenty of sources I've read/watched agree on that point. It's pretty common. You're attributing that basic idea to one group, and it doesn't change a thing.
Yep that's why these thing which you mentioned are love stages. I recommend to watch Helen Fisher on Ted talk
Love is an action, not a feeling
My grandmother thought my granddad was arrogant and didn't think much of him. They were thrown together because their friends were 'going together'. The friends split and my grandparents have been together for 60 years.
I've been in a love triangle and the answer is simple: RESPECT THE THIRD ONE. In my case, you had to respect the girl's choices and opinions and I did end up "losing" and while that hurt, I respected it. Respect is everything. Don't try to "compete". Be straight and honest. Ask what SHE wants and if it isn't you, respect that.
Do you friend with the third one and still being friend after?
@@zainiadnan2335 Yes and no. We were still friends (all three) even after that. But they broke up only a few months down the line and she moved to another city. We lost contact after that.
So while there's no animosity, we don't see each other, or even talk, much anymore.
I'm okay with that though. I'm over my feelings. :)
I think thye meant if anyone had been liked by two people and liked both back.
But you're right from your position.
Good for you, approaching the situation with the right mentality! 👍 (something many people unfortunately don’t know how to do)
@@DaDunge Ah. I see. Thing is, she was never very clear about her feelings either way. Very wishy-washy. I think she was trying to keep her options open. He was just more persistent ;) And, again, I'm fine with it. It was absolutely for the best. The woman I am with now is the love of my life. I wouldn't want it any other way.
Personally I would hate the love triangle happening with me. First of all , it just as tough rejecting someone you genuinely care about as it is being rejected. Secondly to have to reject either/or and choose between 2 people would be terrible to do,as if you're seeing which is the superior flavour of ice cream...so no I wouldn't want to be in such a situation
Pondering all the romances in my circle, through the decades...I can't think of any true love triangles. Well, maybe... A few times when she was disenchanted with a dating relationship or engagement. The guy she ended up marrying senses this and made his moves, while she was "committed'. Is that a real love triangle?
At 1st glance the concept of love triangle happening to yourself can feel... hot.
Like that feeling that there`s not just one, but *two* (or maybe more! Who knows, the number can go upto more than 2, resulting in the triangle turning into some other shape) people who are attracted to, or even love with *you* at the same time, it makes the feeling of being loved go 2x...
but then you realize that if polyamory is not in their book, you`re gonna have to choose,
and it`s gonna be easy.
So in the long run it`s better to hope that you end up in a love triangle (or any love-[shape])
Yea like it's nice to have options but when things move along to closer relationships it's just stressful even if everyone is being honest and respectful, which is almost never the case in movies.
Indeed. That is the worst.
Right? I once met 2 guys around the same time and went on a few dates with both of them. It only lasted about 2 weeks until I ended it with one of them, but I already felt miserable during that time. I couldn't imagine having something like this for a longer period of time, especially once things get more serious.
As a woman, the idea of two men fighting over me is gross. I can’t stand when male characters treat female characters like furniture. Ew.
That said, some love triangles, like in the book version of Hunger Games, where there’s actually a compelling connection with each character, it can be interesting to watch. The guys had too much self respect to grand stand with each other over her. And they had other stuff going on anyway. It was interesting because it really could have gone either way
you might like a webcomic called Girl Genius then. there's a compelling love triangle, but the characters prioritize getting out alive
I guy in college I was holding a candle for turned out to have a girlfriend of five years. I barely talked to him before I took him to my service organization dance. He and a friend literally fought it out in Europe to see who would win the right to love a girl and he won. That was pretty creepy. He was smoking hot. I sent him a friend request on Facebook and he never responded.
Thank you. Finally someone says this. Love triangles are the absolute worst cliche. If it happened to me in real life, I would honestly consider dropping them both and go home to my romance anime and web comics. I will never want that kind of drama.
*Flips imaginary hair.* Ex-cuuuuuse me! I've never seen guys fighting over furniture. But let there be a sale, especially on Black Friday, and it's the *girls* being brutal as hell over it.
@@ryangreen6255 🤣🤣🤣 You're sadly not wrong. That's why me and my family shops online now. Thank you for the laugh though, I definitely needed it.
I actually experienced the "love triangle" trope and it's actually quite confusing. The dudes I dealt with had contrasting personalities, one is shy and passive while the other one is rather talkative and confrontational. Both of them liked me and I knew I had to make a choice and could hurt either of them.
But yeah it's pretty awful, I'd rather see that trope in films rather than irl.
someone in college did the "love actually" thing to me, I left my keys in the dining hall, and went back up to get them. When I got to the table some guy was holding by keys (because he wanted to sit at the table and he found them). I said "oh great thanks" and left but...... He thought it was love at first sight. I was unaware. He persued me. Then I wasn't interested and he got annoyed. I didn't see him for a while (literally didn't think about him once). Flash forward several months to right before christmas break. He moves into an a dorm on in my building and hallway. I was surprised, but apparently he was kicked out of the other building and sent to mine. He KNEW where I lived because he had Christmas card ready for me when he was moving in. It was not romantic. I didn't feel flattered and I didn't kiss him. It ended in a no-contact order that he violated more than once.
Yikes. I hope you’re okay.
When Andrew Lincoln showed up with his cards, I kinda wanted Keira Knightley to call over her husband.
That's as bad as the 'lucky accidents' popular in the 90's. When two people crash into each other and then fall in love. Supposedly. So idiots were trying to make that come about by pushing people they fancied off bar stools and into hotel pools and everyone called you a prude if you didn't go with the guy or girl who did that to you. Even if I had an interest in someone if they pushed me off a bar stool I would go straight off them.
Honestly, they need to stop showing this stuff as attractive it’s one thing to peddle stalking as romantic to women, but it’s another completely more dangerous thing to peddle this shit to men.
@@Ilikefrogs.. you and your double standards. Women are capable of awful things too.
Sweet Jesus
As a woman who's been married 25 years, cleaning the entire kitchen is a HUGE romantic gesture. I would have wanted a marching band when I was 20 because I thought it was a sign that a man is wonderful. But now what I want is thoughtfulness , respect, and gratitude.
How? That's just being a decent human being to clean the kitchen from time to time if you live with someone.
@@DaDunge it depends on the situation and how people understand love. It's like those who like getting gifts vs those of us who have full panic attacks when being given something.
@@DaDunge Your mistaking daily chores in fits and starts versus actual effort. If someone makes a real effort of course that's a romantic gesture
Why not both 😂 I had to except years ago that my husband just doesn’t have that cheesy romantic side.
@@DaDunge that deep clean, fridge cleanout, baseboards, mopping, backsplash all that stuff is exhausting and it takes time and effort. For someone to go out of their way to take that initiative is thoughtful and am act of service (a love language).
My parents are the "Enemies to Lovers" in the Pride and Prejudice sense. They met through high school theater (techies on Romeo and Juliet, of course) and didn't like each other, but their drama teacher kept encouraging them to get to know one another. A couple of years after graduation, my dad asked my mom out. They've been married almost 40 years.
Congratz! That's magnificent.
Awwwww... That's cute.
Their drama teacher manifested their ship so hard it actually worked
I wonder what happened to that drama teacher now.
My parents didn't maybe actively dislike each other, but they say their first impression of each other was rather negative. They only got together because their mutual friend kept pushing for them three to study together for exams. :)
I’d be really curious to see your take on the new movie called “Past Lives”, which involved the main character moving overseas as a kid and reconnecting with an old friend at different stages of life. It felt very realistic to me in how it portrayed relationships, and fairly mature.
second best movie of 2023 imo. Loved it. Very poignant and real.
One thing that I really liked about Disney's "Enchanted" was that they did something that I haven't seen anywhere else. The girl chooses the "bland" guy. She was going to marry the cartoon prince but at the end stays with the middle-class, working, family man. Because that's what she felt more comfortable with. It was kinda cute, and I thought that I should bring it up because it's underrated.
Makes it really awkward for the secondary romance though XD as well as making her a sort of homewrecker esp due to the speed of events.
Omg, I remember that movie- that was so long ago, my lord.
Doug Walker hated enchanted because of the more recent Disney Princess films at the time like Beauty and the Beast and Jasmine of Aladdin when Giselle is supposed to be 80% Snow White that's why it seems more old school Disney and why he thought it was a shallow parody when it's not trying to be such.
In fact Giselle ending up with the ordinary guy from New York was actually pretty clever and I did like how the prince accept the fact that Gisele genuinely loves the other guy and just wants her to be happy rather than be like Gaston where if he couldn't have her princess nobody could
Agreed, but the 'bland guy' was Patrick Dempsey who has classic screen idol handsomeness.
@@aislingyngaio I think the movie actually does a fair bit of counseling as to what is a healthy relationship vs one that is too quick and one that is too slow. Yes they do have a love triangle that sort of turns into a love quad, but if you ignore that, than you have the story of 3 relationships, one which is pure infatuation based on romanticism, two is overly practical, both parties pursuing their own separate goals while waiting too long to see if they want to actually pursue something before "getting serious," the third romance is one that doesn't happen immediately it's based on an initial mutual friendliness followed by spending time together followed by a joining which involves both parties sacrificing a little. It's not fast, but it's not too slow either.
As to the homewrecking, I kinda forgive it, because Giselle is played as "born yesterday" and her decision to pursue him only comes after the original fiance has basically already said "no I've had enough"
The worst relationship in the film is possibly the last pairing, Nancy and Edward, which is a double rebound based on feeling and infatuation. But I will forgive that IF Disney adds Princess Nancy to the Disney princesses list, 😂
Another point about Pride and Prejudice: They don't hate each other. Apart from being dismissive and rude about Elizabeth (the insult was thought to be behind her back, so it's not negging) on their first meeting, Darcy likes Elizabeth very much and from an early point in the acquaintance. Elizabeth is ambivalent towards Darcy. He's not someone she want's to hang around, but she doesn't hate him until she listens to some slander. She is perfectly willing to believe the slander because he's stiff and snooty, and the person saying the slander is hot.
And yes, they both have to change. Elizabeth by taking a hard look about her assumptions. Darcy by being as positively polite and respectful as any human can be when they meet again after his jackass proposal.
Jane Austen FTW
My most controversial opinion as a classic lit nerd is that the 2005 adaptation isn't the best one so when I see people discussing the story, they're discussing that adaptation specifically and I don't know I just wish that wasn't the case
I think a lot of people see P+P as "Darcy's looks like a jerk but is secretly nice, when Elizabeth gets over herself she can see that" and that's where a lot of enemies to lovers goes off the rails. Darcy has the emotional competence of a seasponge at the beginning, but when Lizzie reads him the riot act he leaves, does the work to improve as a person, and when he comes back at the end he makes it clear that at a second rejection he'll leave her the heck alone. He's not attractive because he's a rich bad boy, he's attractive because he freely admits he's wrong and becomes a better person.
@@TristianBlake Yes, Darcy takes the constructive criticism. There is a lot of decency there already, but he is arrogant and he does meddle and he doesn't treat people outside his circle very well. Since the proposal and meeting her again at Pemberly he's been obsessing, "oh God, the things I said!" At Pemberly he goes out of the way to show that he took the note. Elizabeth meets his sister with an open mind, and finds someone really sweet, cripplingly shy, and putting in a lot of effort because her brother asked her too.
@@ahhh4117 Yeah I've read the book more often than I've seen any one adaptation of it.
What gets me about the makeover trope is by the end they're always supposed to have realized the makeover was not the answer and they just need to be themselves. Except they still keep the makeover... The filmmakers are like yeah we did the obligatory moral, but you don't want your protagonist wearing glasses do you?!
It really pains me to say this because I didn’t enjoy that movie, but Velma in the second live action scooby doo
That's what's nice about Shrek! The princess gets to stay 'ugly' because that's who she is actually happiest!
Well, no makeover trope can be worse than Grease. Not only is the "bad girl style" makeover presented as the coolest thing in the world and not questioned at all, but it goes as far as implying that smoking is cool/makes you cool. The cigarette is an essential part of that makeover. I'm not saying today's teens shouldn't watch Grease because of that: they should see it and have an adult by their side who can help them think through the "moral" of the movie.
@@ELisa-qf2mw I’m glad I’m not the only one who hated that movie because of that.
Mean girls did it right
The worst trope is the “he’s attracted to her so she has to fall in love with him” scenario. It doesn’t matter how terrible or unworthy a man (always a man) acts, the fact that he wants her is enough for her to accept him.
I used to summarize a lot of romantic speeches by male characters like this, "I love you with the loviest love-love that has ever been loved by a lover. LOVE ME!"
I hate movies where the love interest is basically just a reward for the main character. Give the main character a box of chocolates or a shiny medal or something instead of a human being!
@@Supernova493 right, a common thing movies do at the end of movies is give everyone a love interest as their reward or gift??? Uh we’re talking about humans here.
Irl it's the opposite 💀
If a girl is into a guy and the guy rejects her
The guy is automatically seen as narcissistic or someone who's too choosy as if preferences don't exist or that there are people who aren't ready for a relationship
If a beautiful girl confesses to a guy, it doesn't matter if the guy's attractive or not, he's gonna get treated with some gossiping because he rejected someone.
On the other hand, some might look to him and think it's badass hahaha
It's a confusing world
@@Eloraurora So.....that wouldn't do it for you?
I used to hide little notes in my former partner's belongings. Things like "you're loved" and "you have a good heart" and sappy stuff like that. He said that meant more to him than any material things I ever gave him. I think it's important to do those little things in a long term relationship. Try not to take your partner for granted, and let them know you still care.
I tried that and my partner was appreciative so I kept doing it until it became annoying. To be fair I might've overdone it. It's the little things tho
Indeed! That is something that bother me in any relationship, in fact: been taken for granted and people just don't invest on their relationship with you because they know you tend to put a lot of effort to help them and make them feelgood.
Okay this is adorable.
Omg I want to be with someone who does that.
The relationship that starts from a lie that then gets discovered but for some reason does not end up being the total deal breaking deep-red flag it absolutely should be
In AOT mr kusaver lied about being marleyan and had a marleyan wife and child. When they discover the truth they killed themself. Pretty extreme. Butmuch more interesting
Have you ever listed to the “36 Questions” musical podcast? It did a pretty good job of avoiding that trope.
I hate the Enemies to Lover trope on a visceral, personal level because that was what I essentially grew up with. My parents fought until I was in college, & I can guarantee you it didn't lead to passionate sexy times like how movie fights end. More like empty talks of divorce, alcoholism & several run away attempts on my part. I think that's a big part why I hate romance movies, because they do encourage these unhealthy expectations.
One trope that I can’t stand in rom-coms is the “I can heal your broken heart with my love.” Movies where someone had a spouse that died, or a relationship that went horribly wrong, or just has terrible luck in love, and then someone else comes along and essentially blows them off and promises that they’re different and you can trust them because they would never do those things. Healing from a broken heart doesn’t happen magically because someone else is now in love with you, it’s a gradual process that has ups and downs the same as any other emotional healing.
On a different note, I HATE love triangles because of the anxiety and angst factors it produces, yet for the same reasons I LOVE enemies to lovers. Go figure 🤷🏼♀️
I agree with you, trying to help someone that doesn't want to be helped can be very dangerous
I agree! When I was younger, this guy really wanted to be with me while I was with someone else, and he never stopped letting me know. Long story short, the guy I was with broke it up, and guess who tried to be there for me when I was vulnerable. I was young enough to fall for it, thinking “if he’s that devoted and cares so much, maybe I should give him a chance”. and three weeks later he’s like “oops I’m not ready for a committed relationship, I’m breaking up with you” trying to keep me on the hook for way to long 😅😅 that wasn’t pleasant, this trope doesn’t work 🙅🏽♀️
I love the Disney movie "Enchanted"because it purposely defies many of those tropes, with the main storyline being that love at first sight leads to couples that don't really know each other. No character has to change in order to be with the one they love, but there is genuine growth.
100 times YES! I don’t understand how that movie is not more popular and beloved!
OMG YES FINALLY! I NEVER SEE ANYONE TALK ABOUT THIS! I can’t get enough of this movie!!!
That, and they had an irl musical with the male lead having no idea what was going on. The song was awesome too.
@@theladyamalthea because it's in the Disney vault. When they pull it out and dust it off, we'll see it everywhere. But Disney tightly controlling their properties in that way to manipulate the market is another one of their diabolical business moves that they don't advertise they do because they are all about image (& have the best PR people to tightly control that image). I hate Disney, but I love Enchanted, the animated Robin Hood, and Encanto. I really wish Pixar hadn't ever been sold to them... And Marvel, and Star Wars. Disney is the worst.
Omg I confused “enchanted” with “encanto” and I was so confused for like a minute
So, as someone who got stuck in a “love triangle”, it was the absolute worst. My fiancé’s best friend fell in love with me. He was open and honest about it to both of my fiancé and I. He would remove himself from the room if he ever ended up in the room alone with me. It only went this way for a few months before my relationship started to really become problematic. There were things I was starting to notice completely separate from the best friend’s declaration. I have the most amazing family. If you just look at me, you don’t realize I come from a massively multicultural family. Long story short, the guys went away for a beach vacation for an early bachelor party. When my fiancé got back, my family had a hiccup. My sister needed to be in the hospital, and could I take care of my nephew for a year. When my fiancé got back from Florida, I told him what was happening. He had the gall to look at me and tell me there was no way he could live in the same house as a half black child. That I needed to think about my priorities and choose a side. I have never kicked someone out of my house and my life faster. A few days later, his best friend came over to talk. He told me that while they were in Florida, he slept with multiple different girls the entire time. He said he told me that not to shine the spotlight on him, but he respected me as a good person that deserved the truth. I never saw him after that. He never went back to that friend group either.
Jesus fuckin Christ that was one hell of a ride... They should make a movie out of this
CAnt say honestly, but my mom was on a love triangle (sort of, more like she was undecisive). So my mom got divorsed and after 2-3 years of singledom, she began dating again. She felt in love with 2 guys: one more warm but lived further away, the other more strict but loved closer. After some struggling she is now dating the stricter guy, mostly because closeness (the other guy lived 5 hrs away by car). But I think she had to clearly state the farther guy that its not going to work.
Do note, none of these were my dad (as my mom divorsed my dad).
I would've kicked the ex fiancé right in the nuts, that is disgusting behavior.
Wow, that sounds totally insane, I have a question though and I do not mean to be mean. Did the topic never crop up in your relationship or was your fiancé untruthful about it?
@@ArukiTsukaru Except in the movie, the character "loosely based" off of her gets together with the ex-fiancé's friend and they co-parent the nephew until the sister's return.
I'm glad that you included what I consider to be the closet to perfect Rom-Com - "10 Ways To Lose A Guy." I know few people will agree with me, but the design of that film was absolutely as well constructed as any I've ever seen. I love to write, and I study why films work and why they don't. A guilty admission, I watch Hallmark Christmas movies to study their formula, and I have it broken down to almost a minute, and OMG it is as tight a formula as has ever been created. And people, including me, have been addicted to those movies. My two examples of how they are best done is "The Christmas Club" and "Winter Love Story." As far as mainstream, theatrical release films, their formula is not as calculated to the minute as Hallmark, but they have a formula. Very few of them play out in real life, and my "10 Ways" example is definitely one that wouldn't'', but that's what I like about it. It's just pure fun. By the way, your dislike for "Twilght" is only exceed by my hatred for it, and I never watched any of them, nor ever will. I can suspend my awareness of reality for anything but vampires or zombies. Just my mindset. You can throw in robots who "transform" into vehicles or weapons. Will never watch a film based on a toy ... and that includes the current release about a doll. Sadly, Hollywood is bankrupt for creativity and have long dropped the facade of creating art over what is the fastest way to appeal to an already existing market of the largest amount of money we can deposit into our account. While I'm on the side of the writers in the current strike, so few of them are worthy of that title.
I was the girl in a love triangle. My boyfriend had moved long-distance, and there were a lot of issues with the relationship that I was being blind about, and as I got interested in another guy (about 6-8 months after my bf moved), the issues I'd been supressing started coming out. In the end, both guys told me they would support the decision I made and I decided to break up with the long-distance bf because of the issues we had (communication issues, differences in maturity, I didn't want him to join the armed forces and that was his plan, etc). I've been married to the other guy for 16 years this May, so I think I made the right choice for me.
I was the other guy in a love triangle. Don't know if it was really a love triangle. I was studying abroad for a year, so was the girl I met during that year. She had a boyfriend home. We had many nice talks and it was clear that we are attracted to each other and there's more than friendship. But she didn't want to break up with her boyfriend at the time and I respected that. So we parted after the year and went home. We met again one year later. I had been in another relationship that had just ended. She was still with her boyfriend but they had problems. The feelings were still there but she still didn't want to end it. So I told her that I'll be there for her as a friend no matter what, but told her also that I'm of the opinion that I deserve my chance now. She soon after ended the relationship with her then boyfriend and moved in with me.
We're now together since 14 years and marreid since 7. Still in love with each other.
I have had two guys physically fight over me, although I have to confess I am not a woman etiher. Anyways, I told them they both just lost any chances they had previously had by physically fighting eachother, Cuz I am not going to date anyone who thinks that I would impressed with anyone who resorts to physical violence like that. No regrets there.
Been the other girl in an emotions triangle. It sucked. I'm glad it didn't work out. I was the newer point in the triangle.
@@Starvberry "I am not a prize to be won!" -Princess Jasmine
love interest: literally a manipulative creepy stalker
main character: aww guys i can fix him
Literally how abusive relationships start…
In a word: TOXIC
Yep, instant red flags. Elle from "The Kissing Booth" and Anastasia from "50 Shades of Grey" must be colour blind, since they missed ALL of the warning signs!
@@trinaq AND Bella from Twilight- Edward literally said he was FOLLOWING her when he barley knew her- and thats not even the worst part of their relationship
Real life version is not fun 😕
The problem with the Big Romantic Gesture is that people learn from movies that "it works", so when applied irl they expect it and even demand it to work. Like all those girls asked for prom or marriage proposals made with great public gestures that pressure the girl to say yes, and if she doesn't, the public surrounding them bash the women because "how could they say no when they did Big Romantic Gesture for them?"
I totally agree with you. I don’t like how rom-coms depict that the ‘big romantic gesture’ automatically ‘gets the girl’. I find the trope of when the man runs after the girl at the airport so cliché and unnecessary. Plus, how do they get past security? If I were the female lead, I would be annoyed (and embarrassed) if I had missed my flight because of that, as well as inconvenience other travellers/staff. Even if there is an initial mutual interest or attraction between the two, the likelihood of this working out (or even happening) in real life is slim. I find most public proposals weird because it gives little to no room for women to say “no”. It puts both parties in a tight spot because of the immense pressure from the public. If the woman rejects the guy, then she might be villainised by the crowd whereas, the man would be humiliated. Personally, I would not want my future fiancé to propose to me in public with many onlookers. I feel that it’s supposed to be an intimate moment shared between partners. Otherwise, it won’t feel as ‘exclusive’ anymore but then again, to each its own.
This reminds me of a video I saw of a girl doing this kind of thing to a boy in school in the middle of a hallway, she literally just stopped him while he was walking with a note asking if he wanted to date her in front of everyone and he said no and walked away, both the girl, and her friend laughed it off before they stopped recording atleast, but in the comments people criticizing the boy for being so cold but like- they literally put him in the worst position ever, anything but an inmediate yes would make him look bad and they asked while he was clearly walking to class, even if he did stop to talk to her that would make everyone look at them, it was overall just a big awkward moment fron everyone involved.
It reminds me of Bojack Horseman, when Diane and Mr Peanutbucker break up after he made a "big romantic gestures" and people were saying Diane was unfair to him and what he did was nice... Even if Diane told him multiple times that she doesn't like big gestures and that by doing it anyway, Mr Peanutbutter just showed how much he doesn't know his wife. Of course they get a divorce.
@@nanalove3819
I think what's even worse about Mr. Peanutbutter's big romantic gesture that led to their divorce was that it was basically an EMPTY gesture, considering the one thing Diane could've actually gotten out of the room he made for her wasn't even included, that being books. She could've at least gotten some books out of his gesture, but he revealed all the books inside were fake. One of the only things she could've actually liked about it wasn't apart of it, showing how little he actually cares about her and what she likes.
Y'all, I don't like even having happy birthday sung to me at restaurants! Seriously, I've walked out because people thought it would be funny, even after I asked to not have it happen.
When my husband proposed, it was literally just in front of our parents and siblings, and that was too many people for my liking. My mom was taking pictures, and in them I'm just glaring at him with my hands on my hips, super annoyed. I said yes because I wanted to marry him, but before I said yes, I told him he should have done this in private, with just me and him.
Now, he's very much like Jonathan. His big romantic gestures are cleaning the house or baking cookies or something that is just really sweet, not glamorous, but big to me.
I always wondered why I hate romantic comedies as a kid. When I got older I realized that it was because of these tropes. Made me feel super insecure when I was growing up. It never emulated my parent’s marriage so I kind of unbeknownst to me sniffed out the bull crap. Whenever love triangles came up I immediately thought they should bulldoze the whole thing and felt like pulling out hair whenever I saw them. But hey I’ve never been in a relationship so what do I know.
young men learn about love from their parents, and movies. We quickly find out the movie shit does not work, and if your parents arent together or have toxic relationships, you learn that you know nothing.
I think “My Best Friend’s Wedding” is one of my favorite rom coms because it subverts the trope of love being a reward despite awful behavior. I also love that the ending enforces the idea that it’s ok to not have that one special someone because sometimes you might find a soulmate in a friend.
YES! My Best Friend's Wedding is such a classic and Julia Robert was just such a good choice for the main character given her other works
I used to love this film and upon rewatch, I hated it.
I will always love George and Cameron Diaz, but I just could handle watching the awful things Julia Roberts did which I get is the point, but it was too cringey to watch.
I never like seeing many lives almost getting ruined because the character did not take her chance a long time ago.
However, I do respect Cameron Diaz’s character not letting Julia roberts’s to steam roll all over her and how her groom ran after her.
I also liked how George still remained friends with Julia Roberts despite being witness to the misdeeds his friend did.
As a female fan of Cinema Therapy, I would like to say that I absolutely HATE love triangles, especially with two guys and one girl. I have never understood the appeal. The girl is never THAT special. There are always other wonderful characters around them they could be with and would actually appreciate them but for some reason they never see it. As for a fix it, maybe one of them could get therapy and realize that they deserve to have someone be loyal and put them first? Or someone could just die.
"or someone could just die." 🤣
i also hate the love triangle trope (f38) it's difficult enough to find ONE guy that likes me, forget about two
Or it can turn into a polyamorous relationship
I completely agree. Love triangles are one of my least favorite tropes of all time. I've read or watched a few that were good. But for the most part, they're tolerable at best and INSANELY AGITATING at worst. I think it's been WAY overdone, it was real popular back in the late 2000s and early 2010s. But now I think they need to take a SERIOUS step back. Like, if you can't fucking choose between the two, polyamory's right there. I couldn't have found a better comment.
I also find that trope super uncomfortable. I don't like how it tends to force Oh Wait One Of Them Sucks/Was Evil/Has A Terminal Illness or Old Ex That's Gonna Conveniently Pop Up to save the protagonist from having to make a difficult decision or hurt someone's feelings.
I haven't seen this done in movies but some female protagonist in anime and/or manga can actually be so awesome that it justifies the triangle (or harems). Though, I find that it only works when the protagonist is either unaware or had yet to develop romantic feelings anyone. Then for me it's just fun to root for my favorite "ship" or character that I find most attractive. But just to clarify, this is in no way fun in real life as someone always gets hurt and that just sucks. So yeah, I'd rather see it in movies and novels.
My husband claims he had love at first sight for me. I saw the "struck by Cupid" look in his eyes when we were introduced, which I admit I had never seen before directed to me. I was NOT in the market, being in a relationship at the time. We got to be good friends, and I discovered his basic honesty, optimism, and gentleness. Three things I was missing with my then relationship. When THAT old relationship blew up with a bang, he was one of three guys I dated, and he just won me over in time to a deep and abiding love. Married 48 years, best thing that ever happened to me.
Oh my gosh that’s so sweet 😭 I hope to be that person for someone one day
Lovely, hope I can say I've been married that long someday...
It also seems that he waited for you yo be single too, rather than trying to dump them for him. He is also respectful. Here's to 50 years.
I believe “ Love at first sight” can happen.
I’ve never thought it was because of appearance, but like sensing goodness in the person that they see. And weather a relationship starts with “love at first sight”, or not, they both require just as much time and work❤️
Oh my gosh, that’s an incredible story
I was victim of a “love triangle” once and it was so stressful that I quickly told both of them “hey look there is another guy, who is interested in me. And I am as much interested in him like I am in you. So you can decide if that is something you want to deal with or we can just call it quits” - of course both did not want to deal with it. And tho I was sad at the beginning i quickly realized, that all I enjoyed was the attention 🤷🏼♀️. So yeah love triangles are horrible…
I think my biggest flex in my relationship is being able to communicate. Me and my bf speak about anything, trauma, doubts in the relationship, next steps, when we are scare of the commitment we re making, when we are confused or frustrated. There is not a single doubt in my relationship that I can't share with him, and we always solve it together
I’ve been married 21 years next month and with him for 22 years and we’ve known each other for 26 years! Communication is definitely key..
you’ll always know where you stand with one another. It’s extremely important for a healthy long lasting relationship.
This is perfect, exactly how I want my relationship to be!
Big win
This is exactly what I hope for.. if I ever get to that point 🥲
This is the same with my boyfriend and I. We talk about anything and everything, and if there's an issue, we solve it. Communication is a big deal, and taking accountability is just as important, on both sides
As a mixed girl (black and white) with curly hair, it was quite damaging to see the 'makeover' trope center straightening one's hair as a way to achieve beauty
that's such a thing tho. These moments work with beauty standards that are eurocentric and just overall trash
Curly hair is so much prettier than straight when it's well cared for.
@@kohakuaiko that's your opinion and I think so too, it's that's not what this is about tho :D
Thanks for making this point, like an idiot I hadn't even noticed this, ever xD
@@kohakuaiko hmm, isn't that just the same idea in reverse though? If every person with straight hair had to get it made curly for makeovers, it would still not be ok ;)
As a female, neither the love triangle nor the love rhombus appeal to me 😂 When the love triangle happens I start shouting at the screen, "Make up your mind already!" It's always the good guy that gets shafted in the love triangle... I married the "good guy" and can confirm that our life is not vanilla or bland :)
same tbh, i didnt rlly think that deeply about it, and also got more annoyed when the love triangle would just drag out when it was obvious which person they'd pick.
I married the good guy, but I love my vanilla life. Stability, kindness and loyalty over action any day for me. I can make enough excitement, I need the mellowing influence.
Honestly, the best solution to love triangles (in fiction at least) is polyamory. Skip the drama and pick both options.
I think the love triangle looks so forced and unrealistic. It is annoying.
SO TRUE
To answer your question as a woman I think the love triangle actually stems from finally giving woman a choice. When you guys watched Barbie it gave you more perspective there but the love triangle part truly appeals to woman because they get 2 guys but they get to pick the one who best suits them. And the choice is completely theirs. It doesn't matter who they choose since both want her. So in offering such a choice it makes woman more excited because of the underlying psychological problems of women not always having a choice.
The big romantic gesture my husband makes: Every single morning, around 8am (when I start my work), he bring me a cup of coffee in a cute cup... sometimes he buys a cup he think I might like for my morning coffee. A couple of weeks ago he broke his hand and we started to make the morning coffee together (more like I prepare it, he gives me instructions on how to achieve the best coffee) :D
My husband's is using his incredible power of knowing when I need a cup of tea and he makes me one.
His other one is either cooking dinner or getting take out when I'm just over it.
When my husband gets out of work early enough he surprises me with sweet tea from one of many of our favorite places to eat. Or when he works from home he’ll have bought some breakfast tacos for me since he gets up earlier than I do. It’s the small things. ❤️
That is so cute!!! My boyfriend does a similar thing where he specifically bought milk and coffe and a coffee maker for me so he could make me coffe with milk foam when I'm staying over
I work at home, and my computer setup is next to my boyfriend’s. Whenever he gets up to leave the room, he likes to put his hand on my shoulder. 🥰
One trope that often happens in romance books specifically (that I love) is called The Grovel. It's a turning point where the main love interest (after screwing up) openly says "I hurt you. I had my reasons, but that doesn't make it okay. I am devastated that I hurt you and I want to put in the work to fix it."
It's an incredibly important fantasy for many women; to have your pain, your feelings, and your trauma made central to the narrative. Many guys that I have spoken to see it as some kind of power fantasy, but it's not. It's a significance fantasy. A good romance is where both characters feelings and their growth from start to finish takes work and we see progress.
It is absolutely terrifying how many men are somehow threatened by the idea of it.
Right!?!?
Watch Outlander on Netflix!!! Has beautiful scenes of this and the most lovely relationships I've ever seen on TV
I love this, but only if he actually follows through with it. There's no point in apologizing if there's no work done afterward to fix the mistakes of the past or make better decisions going forward. I saw an attempt at something like this done in After, the book. There were several times that he apologized and promised to change and then he went back to the same exact behavior of drinking, yelling, insulting her, and isolating her from loved ones and repeated this cycle multiple times throughout the book, it was absolutely disgusting to see an abusive relationship portrayed as romance and pandered to teenagers like that. He didn't actually value her feelings or needs, he just wanted her to stop being mad at him. I understand if the love interest genuinely apologizes and struggles to change afterward, actually I'd like to see a struggle and a payoff, but the payoff has to come, the changes have to be made even if it takes a while, because women cannot continue to be told that our feelings don't matter and we deserve men who don't care about us IN BOOKS AND MOVIES THAT ARE MADE FOR US
I wouldn’t even call that a “Grovel.” That’s just apologizing for mistakes, which is necessary for a healthy relationship. Men who are threatened by that are weak. Heck, anyone who feels threatened by accountability is weak.
It's not that they feel threatened, it's that it often has the opposite effect. When a guy starts groveling, he no longer appears confident and looks like a simp. Appearing weak and a simp is one of the biggest turn offs for women in general.
I always felt like Eric fell in love with Ariel because she keeps surprising him. She brushes her hair with a fork, and steals the reigns of his wagon and takes him for a ride. Like, I got the impression that her individuality was what drew him to her.
Also, Ariel didn't "give up being a mermaid" FOR Eric. He was incidental. She may have had a crush on him sure, she was a teenager, and as a human he represented to her everything she wanted, long before she first saw him. "To be where the people are"
It was the bad guy, Ursula, who offered her this faustian deal to become a person but made staying a person vs. losing her soul contingent on making Eric fall in love with her, and is the one who made her voice the price. Ariel made the terrible deal because she would have done anything to follow her dream of being human.
AND Eric was mesmerized by her because of her voice, so unlike the argument so many make against the little mermaid that she had to give up her voice to make him love her- it had the opposite effect. It was significantly harder to get him to fall for her without her voice, but since they had chemistry it was working anyways, til Ursula cheated. Luckily Ariel got her voice back, which not only broke the spell but hearing her voice reminded him it was Ariel he had fallen for.
Post dramatic- baddie gets defeated scene, Ariel's father realizes that he has to let his daughter go out in the world and make her own choices, so transforms her back to a person and supports her decision.
It also does not specify the amount of time that elapsed between Ariel and Eric being reunited and their wedding. Just cause it cuts to it in the movie doesn't mean it was immediate. For all we know they spent a solid chunk of time getting to know one another first.
Since her being human was no longer contingent on making Eric fall for her, she could have split it off with him if he turned out to not be what she expected. Since she stayed, whether it would long term work out or not, that was her free choice to make.
Anyways, long story short, I agree.
I think that his attraction to the "fork as a hairbrush" Ariel guy-translates to "the crazy ones are great at sex." #sorrynotsorry
In the original story the prince doesn't fall in love with her but keeps her a bit like a favourite pet. And she on the other hand isn't after him because of himself but because by getting him to love and marry her she will get to share his immortal soul, a thing that mermaids don't possess.
@@lottaraatikainen3942 In the original story, she turn into sea foam because she refuse to stab Eric (who choose another woman) with a dagger that her sisters gave to her. If she had put her feet in his blood after stabbing him with that dagger, she would have become a mermaid again. She basically sacrificed herself.
@@idonotcomprehend Thank you, but I'm familiar with the original story - also the very end where the mermaid turns into a spirit of air instead of foam and it's pointed out to her by the other air spirits that she is now better off since now she can earn her salvation with her own work instead of depending on a man for it.
I know this video is a year old, but my marriage is basically modern Pride and Prejudice (one of my favorite books). When I first met the man who became my husband, I couldn't stand him. It took a year of ending up at the same gatherings before I even wanted to be in the same room with the man. I would go out of the way to be as far away as possible. I thought he was loud, obnoxious, and just generally annoying. He apparently decided he liked me way before I liked him, but I still didn't want to be around him. After being stuck at the same parties, thanks to overlapping social circles, I eventually decided to try getting to know him, if only to understand why my friends thought he was worth inviting in the first place. Fast forward another six months of growing, changing, and learning about each other and we decided to date... that was twenty years ago and we're still happily married. So, a year of not being able to stand him - probably about six months of that, he was into me. Another six months of becoming friendly. Another 2 1/2 years of dating, and finally marriage. Oh! and my name is Elizabeth, just like the story. Also, he comes from money and I don't, and his meddling mother (as opposed to great aunt) tried to keep us from tying the knot. And I have younger three sisters. There's no Jane equivalent. Otherwise, we hit a lot of the story bullet points.
I remember once, having a "We hate each other from the start" relationship with a man. I told my friends, "If this was a movie, we'd be married within six months. He's attractive, smart, well employed, shares my religion, basically everything we're told to look for, and we fought from the get-go. So, yeah, in a movie, we'd fall in love and realize that spark of anger towards each other was the spark of chemistry and passion, and BOOM! LOOOOOVE! But this isn't a movie. And we hate each other. I have NO IDEA why he hated me. I hate him because of the way he treated me, once he decided that he hated me. It's not going to happen between us. And if he's going to be part of this group date, then count me out. I won't enjoy it if he's there. Because he WILL do something to hurt me."
What clinched it for me was one day, after we had a meeting (we were both on the same planning committee), a man on the planning committee came up to me and apologized. "Look, the way he treated you yesterday was awful, and I feel bad that I didn't speak up in the moment. He shouldn't have treated you like that."
That's when I KNEW that, even if this WERE A movie, we should NOT be together. He may be all the good things on paper, and he may be good and kind TO OTHER PEOPLE, but he was abusive to ME, and that means EVERYTHING.
It's like, when you see a woman who is with a bad man, but she says, "Yeah, I know he abuses everyone, but he treats ME well." Nooooo! He's a BAD PERSON, and he will, one day, treat you badly, too!
This guy was a BAD PERSON, who felt safe abusing me, for whatever reason. He treated other people well, because he felt that he MUST. He didn't feel safe abusing them.
So, yeah, the enemies to lovers trope really gets my goat, because in real life, it's just a bunch of warning bells. Unless they are, like, political enemies, and it's not personal. Like if Romeo and Juliet had been adults who knew what they were doing, but said, "You know? Screw politics! Our relationship is outside of politics!" I can get behind that. But when the "meet cute" is "These two people crashed into each other, and yelled at each other because of it, instead of saying, "Oh, excuse me. I wasn't watching where I was going," or judged each other badly and wrongly and harshly, and are really good people who were just having a bad day, and will see the good in each other, eventually," it ANNOYS ME.
At best, they can have the "we got off on the wrong foot," and then they are forced to spend a lot of time with each other, and both agree to be civil, because it's the right thing to do, and they are serving a greater purpose that requires them to work together, and in doing so, they learn to see 1) the good in the other and 2) that they were mistaken in their initial judgement, and 3) that they are flawed, too, and 4) that they actually ARE a good fit, when they put their differences aside and/or forgive their differences/flaws. But that takes, as you say, another three hours of movie time.
That sort of relationship is GREAT for a mini series, though. Elizabeth Gaskell's North and South, for example? They took TIME.
Well said
I had a similar experience to yours--met a guy who I thought I might be interested in only to find the animosity insurmountable. I think the idea of enemies to lovers always appealed to me--that anything is possible--but sometimes it just leaves a person too open, and you end up trying to understand why a guy is being mean ("does he secretly like me?" = romcom scenario) when he's just being a jerk and the only solution is to avoid him. In the end someone else had to point out that the way you were being treated wasn't ok... again, I relate. The trope did a number on me too... and they made good points about it in the video.
Enemies to lovers is the plotline of basically every Harlequin romance ever written.
I've been in a love triangle once, and it was not in any way dramatic, exciting or enviable for anyone involved. Just awkward and really really painful. My dignity was shredded and I was never the same again. If you're the butt-end of the triangle, it's humiliating on a cellular level. I was in love with this guy for years, and then my best friend started dating him. It totally broke my heart and made me so depressed that I could barely get out of bed for 6 months. At one point, we were enrolled in a class together, but all the other students dropped out and the class ended up consisting of just the three of us. It was like a scene out of the worst rom com ever, except there was no climactic confrontation or blow-up. It was just me and her trying our darnedest to pretend that everything was ok.
I'm sorry that happened to you, that sounds really awful. 🙁
Damn mate, sorry to hear that. How are you doing now? Are you better? I really hope and wish you are buddy.
I don't know your life and am not trying to be judgy, but being so depressed you can barely leave the bed for _half a year_ over romantic feelings you held onto for years but never did anything with... you may not have been ready for a relationship anyway, and it would probably be healthier to focus on self-love first in that sort of situation.
@@hectoremanuelbrandan4126 Thank you for asking. The love triangle is fortunately no more. During the pandemic, they ended their relationship and moved to different parts of the country. I'm not sure how much those wounds ever really go away, but not having to face them in daily life is definitely a weight off of my shoulders
@@onetouchofvenus2335 i hope you can heal those wounds eventually, the scars might be there forever and they might hurt sometimes, but i’m sure it’ll get better. i wish you all the best
"my big romantic gesture is cleaning the whole kitchen" OMG. Yes!! That's a gesture I would totally fall for! XP
same. and cleaned the floor/vacuum?? duuuude
I'll take that over the marching band or public serenade Any Day.
A neck massage and a big, warm hug would also do it for me. 💜 No need for a marching band and a flashmob to get me. 😂
Me too! I hate chores lol
The Whole kitchen?! Like sweeping and wiping down the counters? God yes please.
With that enemies to lovers trope, my parents were both teaching at the same school when they met.
My dad was apparently one of those guys that women just threw themselves at and he didn't find it super amusing. My mom told us her first interaction with Dad was hearing him sarcastically tell some one, "oh good, another heart to break" when he found out a new female teacher (mom) was just hired. She instantly disliked him.
They eventually got to know each other better, and ended up married for almost 30 years (until Mom passed away).
Enemies to lovers is literally my origin story 🤣
Keep in mind that this is more 'enemies to friends to lovers'.
When someone said that "romance movies end before the relationship begins," it was such a light bulb moment for me. So many girls who wanted moments and romances similar to rom coms then found themselves dating someone on and off for several
drama filled years without advancing to stable relationships. They had no examples of stable relationships irl or in media. If it was in media, it was painted as boring and unfulfilling. Nowadays, I think a lot of women realized how scary or toxic some rom com things are irl. More couples are also finding success in redefining relationships to fit them instead of trying to fit into a box that doesn't fit them. Relationships and marriages aren't where joy dies, and life ends if you find compatible partners. It would be nice to see more rom coms that subvert creepy tropes
We need more romance stories about... the relationship part
I think those are called thrillers.
I like The Incredibles for that! The movie starts with the wedding, when we usually see the wedding as the conclusion of the story.
I will admit that I genuinely love the enemies to lovers trope because I think there's something so beautiful in being able to grow as people, not only into a relationship but into better versions of yourselves. In being able to recognize your flaws and mistakes, and being able to recognize the ways in which you can relate to people that you think you hate and then finding understanding there where you didn't expect it. I especially enjoy when its enemies to okay acquaintances to friends to lovers, because it demonstrates how much time and effort must be put into a relationship in order for it to grow into something worth keeping.
Oh yeah, definitely. That kind of character growth and relationship building is fascinating!
Yes! Someone finally put it into words for me! I've always absolutely LOVED enemies to lovers tropes but my friends keep on asking me why, now I can finally give them good reasons!
Beginning of a story where two characters dislike each other or are in some kinda rivalry is the only time where i would like to see their growth as characters where they come to understand the other person but there have been so many dramas where one of the character literally bully the other one and says such mean stuff which in the end is discarded as them being in love but they just didn't know how to show love which is where i feel the line should be drawn
I agree, and something else I like about the trope is the implication that you can be difficult, hostile even, and still be loved. That someone can know what they consider your worst side right away and they will still keep engaging and eventually find something lovable.
@@desaturated-firefox yes, I love that. And after that, the two characters can really know each other and don’t have to hide. It creates this awesome connection that, when done well, can actually be very healthy and sweet
I appreciate the discussion of the “Damsel in Distress” trope but I think Beauty and the Beast is a poor example (aside from the specific use of wolves). The beast saves Belle’s life because it’s the right thing to do. He has a huge moment of regret after yelling at her, and goes after her because he has compassion for her. He saves her because it’s the right thing to do, and doesn’t gloat or expect anything from her because he did so. He’s actually surprised when she thanks him.
The other thing to note is that Belle has a similar character moment. After the fight, the beast collapses from his injuries. She could have left him there and gone home which would have solved her problem. Instead, she also has compassion for him and decides to take him back to the castle to help him heal. And in turn, she doesn’t gloat or expect anything from him afterward.
I've never seen a sincere damsel in distress situation in which the rescuer gloats about it, that's usually only in satirical takes.
Just because it was less overt and had some positive aspects surrounding it doesn't change the fact that the writers still felt the need to include a "Man Proves He Is A Good and Just Protector By Saving Woman" scene. Even things that are really good with positive messages can have little influences and stereotypes like that, and it's okay to acknowledge them. It doesn't mean they're "bad."
I agree. Beast saving Belle isn't a plot point in their relationship. It's a plot point in his character growth. And Belle is in genuine need of saving from real danger, as opposed to other damsel in distress examples where the danger is something the damsel could solve or walk away from on her own. In Rom-Coms usually the distress they need saving from is a perfectly functional long-term relationship or good stable job.
I think the 'wolves' point was the failure in their discussion of that issue. It sort of trivialized their commentary without getting to the root imo. Saving someone is such a broad concept and it doesn't have to be a literal wolf to be cliche. I can't even think of THAT many movies that use wolves specifically (and some are in the wild so it...while I can agree it's a cliche, it does make sense in context).
I am more bothered in film by the focus of the woman in the situation being that the dude saved her and being eternally grateful and that she owes being with him for that. While thanking that person is the good thing to do...so rarely do we get focus on if she is ok and whatever healing that should start. Trauma is a hell of a thing...
I will say, I do think love at first sight exists. I met my husband through work and as soon as we saw each other, we knew. We took a while to get to know each other, but got married two years in. Most people wouldn't recommend "moving so quickly," but we knew we were meant to be on sight. We did have some of the miscommunication/almost didn't happen moments, which my husband hates to think of and finds embarrassing for how "stupid" he was being. (His words, not mine.) I love to look back at it and see how we started as silly young adults who fell so deeply in love and continue to this day. I think it definitely depends on the situation, but I do think it's possible to just know once you meet someone. I love watching you guys and I'm trying to get my husband to watch with me!
The worst trope: someone who is in love with his/her friend and the friend doesn't realize it until he/she starts dating someone else 🤦🏻♀️
Or some other barier to the relationship gets in the way like in Yesterday.
It's not my preference but i don't mind it. I think it's more realistic than a lot of the other ones. When you spend so much time with someone and you know you enjoy their company and get those fuzzy friendship feelings then it can be hard to differentiate when those feelings become more romantic in nature. I've thought about kissing all my friends. It's not because I've been in love with them it's just because it's nice and i don't see kissing as a purely romantic thing. It's just a physical intimacy a slight step above a hug. It's not making out. It's also pretty normal to feel a bit jealous of a friend's lover, not necessarily because you're in love with them but just because now your friend has less free time to spend with you and probably takes up some of your time together by talking about their s/o. I can understand how someone could struggle to recognize their romantic interest.
Not to be confused with the trope of the friend who was in love with their bff from the start and just didn't say anything. I think that one feels a lot more predatory. Like you're waiting for the right time to strike. Like they had impure motives in befriending you. In that situation I'd wonder if they were waiting to comfort me in a time of emotional vulnerability so they could tell me all i wanna hear and try to get me to date them when I'm not in a position to be thinking things through.
@@yukikanegawa7470 I agree. Also, coming back here to say I've just watched Bridgerton season 3, which is this exact same plot, and I loved it 😂 so I think it depends on how much we are cheering for the leading couple
so frustrating!!! And then the one friend finally admits how they feel and suddenly the new partner gets thrown aside.
@@yukikanegawa7470 So, kinda like Emma/Mr. Knightley, Cher/Josh, Kim Possible/Ron Stoppable
Alan: "We don't have 3 hours to sit there and be bored while people are just decent to each other."
Me, an Asian drama fan: *"And I took that personally."*
Many European movies are like that too. And you have soap operas.
@@noctusowl meh.. Not a big fan of soaps. Tbh 99.9% of American TV is just adults being horny.... But thumbs up to European movies.✨✨
If it's at the end of a kdrama, those long moments are so hard-won that they are delightfully swoony. But if it occurs in the middle of the series, it's ominous. You can enjoy it nervously and with anticipation because you know something horrible yet exciting is coming up.
@@Chatoyancify oh most definitely ✨✨
@@okumurax8839 missing out on novellas
When talking about communication, you forgot to mention one of the biggest cliches in rom-coms, the "Third Act Misunderstanding/Break-Up". Seriously, I lost count how many movies centering on a relationship see some kind of mix-up at the end of the second act that could be cleared up by a two-minute conversation, but, instead, it breaks up the leads only for them to get back together at the end, usually through a big romantic gesture. It is the worst cliche of the genre.
Oh I _hate_ that trope! I see it all the time in the romance shows I watch, can practically see it coming a mile away and adds absolutely nothing to the relationship or story other than drama for the sake of drama
And it always have to be raining during/ after the miscommunication or it leads one of the leads to decide to leave somewhere far away (never downtown or five minutes away) and they have to be stopped because clearly phones or taking another flight/ train/ bus after is impossible/ does not exist
It's predictable as hell
That linked to the grand gesture.
Especially when they don't even clear up the misunderstanding 🤦
And no one seems to realize how public romantic gestures are putting someone in a position where they can't refuse without punishment (the crowd is always cheering "say yes!" Or "take him back!" And she's gonna look like an asshole if she doesn't), which is manipulative af
I'm going to defend Eric in the OG Little Mermaid. He fell in love with the singing girl because she saved his life. He only fell for mute Ariel after she acted like her quirky, outgoing self, making him laugh, and being a bit wild. Like the diner scene- sure he notices she's pretty, but he really starts to like her as she uses a fork like a comb or blows tobacco in Grimsby's face. Then the two go on a legitimate date, where he seems to genuinely enjoy her company, smiling when he sees her excited and laughing at her funny facial expressions and having fun when she goes a bit too wild with the cart as he gives her the reins. They have a strong personal connection, and her beauty did help that, but it was not the sole reason he fell for her.
And it was implied the wedding took place after a few months.
I’m actually going to challenge you on The Little Mermaid, even though I have issues with it as well.
So! If you watch her behavior on land, Eric doesn’t fall in love with her because she’s shy and demure, he falls in love with her because she is so excited to be in this new world, seeing everything for the first time. She drags him everywhere like an excited puppy, interrupts a puppet show, jumps over a small canyon in a horse and buggy (scaring the crap out of him) and joyfully dances with him in the street. I don’t think he falls in love with her because she has no voice, he falls in love with her because her personality shines through DESPITE her being voiceless.
It’s a great point of view, but still I’m not so sure that he could really fall in love with her personality because ,like you said , - she was so excited , everything was new to her, so it’s kinda hard to tell if he would still be interested when her “rush” settles, when she would feel other emotions like anger or something. But I really think that he was able to see at least little bit past her looks
I definitely agree with you that he doesn't fall in love with her because she has no voice. Ursula takes away Ariel's voice because that's what Eric WANTS. Eric's current image of the woman he wants is the mysterious woman who was singing to him on the beach. Her voice was what attracted him to her in the first place and Ursula took that away in an attempt to screw Ariel over. She does this with all of her victims in the typical villain trope of making a contract that is also a trick, as evident from a deleted scene where Ursula is talking to a merman she offered a spell to make him strong and handsome in exchange for a flower which is out of season that he obviously can't find. When she realizes that her plan is failing and Eric is falling for Ariel regardless of her lack of voice, she uses that to control Eric. In the end, he learns to appreciate Ariel for who she is and not just because true love "hit him like lightning" like he thought it would.
Yesss!!! I will defend little Mermaid to my dying days- it is absolutely not flawless but everyone forgets that montage and the fact that Eric made it clear in his early parts of the movie that he WANTS to fall in love with whoever he ends up with, and he didn't want to marry the girl who saved him, but thank her and if possible get to know her if she gives him the chance, and when 'Vanessa' comes up she literally magically enchants him because he was ready to give up on his mysterious heroine in order to get to better know the lovely, charming, excited mute girl he helped out earlier that he finally learned the name of.
@@zachariahherring3950 my only counterpoint (and it's less "you're wrong" and more "aaaa I wish peopleknew this") is that is 100% true for Disney's the little mermaid, but Ursula wasn't a villain in the OG she was an ambivalent magic user😭
@@abbystarheart1 Also, Ariel really just wanted to be human and go to heaven.
As a girl who has worn glasses since I was 3, the take off glasses to make a girl pretty seriously ruined my self confidence. Watching Wonder Woman 1984(after loving the first one) made me very angry. It was freaking 2020 and they were still doing that trope.
I did like that they pointed out that wearing glasses didn't make her less attractive. And she got to do the super hero thing by taking them off🤓🤓
Wonder Woman 1984 was a horrible /boring movie regardless.
@@IndigoBellyDance i loved it
@@IndigoBellyDance agreed. It was such a disappointment to me.
@@justagirl19 I loved the first Wonder Woman movie…. It was amazing.
I saw a tweet or something once that said "are you actually in love with the enemies to lovers trope or do you just love the idea of someone seeing you at your worst and still loving you?" and it has f'ed me up ever since hahaha
why not just both?
Oh man, that just hit me upside the head in all kinds of ways.
I don't get it 🙈
I mean ultimately that's the goal. Most of our partners have seen us at our worst nd still loved us. The problem arises when u r not willing to work on it or they don't let u work on it cz they're attached to your worst self
@@gargeebasak9648 this mf with the anime girl with glasses is actually making sense
Nothing but facts
What I LOVE about the live action Little Mermaid is that the Actually get to know each other and find out that they have a lot of things in common, and in the end she doesn’t give everything up for him (her family).
I saw a quote somewhere once that said "thank god I didn't find what I thought I wanted when I was younger" and it hit very hard as someone who used to bury themselves in romance books, films or series and romanticize every scenario in my head until I actually got into a long term relationship and realised that those things were bonkers
The trope that I wish would die is the epiphany at the end; "I finally realized we were perfect for each other all along!" sending the message, "if you just wait long enough, some day, they'll realize what they threw away." RomComs are movies written by the people who are telling the story of the fantasy they wished happened. That level of attachment, obsession, expectation not grounded in reality, and denial needs to just go away.
But isn't that kinda the whole point tho? RomComs as a genre are meant to be indulgent, not based in reality, that's what makes them fun (if they're done and written well, there's a lot of bad ones too).
There could still be movies that are both romantic and comedic without incessantly falling back on this trope. For instance, and just off the top of my head, didn't "My Best Friend's Wedding" result in acceptance rather than the unrealistic epiphany?
@@FencerPTS Sure, but the acceptance trope is also a popular one too. Idk, it just really relies on if the story is well written and characters are well rounded/developed. There are a lot of good romcoms out there that use the popular tropes, but do them well.
Can you guys talk about the series Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. The show dismantles dozens of tropes (including the one in the title) and plays with all possible conventions. It is also considered to be one of the best representation of mental health issues in the media.
Yes! I didn't even realize how much I needed this show till I watched it on a whim.
Third
Go a step further and watch the film My Super Ex-Girlfriend.
@@MagicalMedic this comment makes me think you haven't seen the show. If you haven't, seriously, watch. If you have... maybe you missed the point?
@@alethearia Haven't seen it, didn't miss the point, was remarking on the name.
I disagree that Eric falls for Ariel solely for her looks; he falls in love with her endearing personality. She's not being shy and demure at all??? She's being weird, she's pulling him around in the town cause she's excited, he GIVES HER the reigns for the horse and she just goes haywire with it and DESPITE that he continues to trust her and lets her keep the reigns. You could argue the boy has zero survival skills, but that's not the subject here. Eric is, in the long run, a polar opposite to her father who is controlling and abusive and that is what Ariel ultimately falls in love with. Yes, he's handsome, but she also listens to him speak about his dreams and what he's looking for in a wife, it's not just empty "oh he pwetty" as far too many people dismiss it as.
I'm aromantic, so it doesn't really apply to me, but my older sister who has actually been in a real-life situation with two guys fighting over her has said it was a legitimately horrible and stressful experience, and not flattering in the least.
So neither of us are terribly thrilled with love triangles in our films.
I would LOVE to see a “rom com” for a spectrum of people in the Ace community. I suppose watching the parts of Anne of Green Gables that focuses on Anne & Diana will have to do…
@@michivallieres8334 Oh that's a fun idea! I'm gonna go and brainstorm
I'm Bisexual af, not at all Ace, and I still get SO incredibly fucking tired of always having a romantic subplot/hornyness disguised as "romance" shoved into literally every damn piece of media, all the time. Sometimes you just want to see bffs or just queer-platonic (in the small little water droplet of actual queer rep we get, most of it just sadly ends up as queerbait, nothing else. It's why people tend to be so protective of the few canon ones we get, but goddamn, you guys are part of the community and deserve voices and rep too!), but nope, happy ending always equals passionately in love and ready to bang the second the scene fades to black, I guess.
Just as a curiosity, how did the triangle start? Because from a totally outside perspective with no context, why didn’t she tell one or both of them to go away? If she was clear that she wouldn’t accept either of their affections or that she had chosen one or the other, then that’s not fighting over her, that’s just stalkers fighting or her bf fighting a stalker. If they were fighting because she wanted time to chose… sorry but I’d give her over 50% of the blame.
Sorry I’m just curious how real life triangles happen and work out. It’s very common in my area to date multiple people at a time and at some point to chose the person you like best or feel the most connected with. Everyone understands the situation and while there can be hurt feelings it usually isn’t too messy.
@@Undomaranel *sigh* living vicariously through Psychottie one Tiktok at a time. #normaliseplatoniclifepartners
I was sort of, kind of in a love triangle. I grew up in a cult that believed the parents should pick your husband, so they had me courting this guy I barely knew, when a different guy who wasn't in the cult expressed feelings for me, and I suddenly realized I actually had a chance to marry for love, and I was pretty conflicted. The cult guy got upset that he had competition and proposed (after a grand total of 6 days of courtship), and I said I needed a week to think. (Because refusing him was like rebelling against my religion, and accepting him would be committing to never seeing my non-female friends ever again, AND NOW THAT I KNEW I HAD OTHER OPTIONS, I WAS OVERWHELMED.) His mom yelled at me for not accepting her son right away, and I told her if she needed an answer right away, it was no. She got really quiet and tried to say I was being hasty, but once I had said no, I felt more and more that I didn't want to marry her son. I yelled at my parents (for the first time) that I was NOT going to marry anyone I didn't love, and started dating the non-cult guy. We've been married for 12 years.
you're a badass! go you!!
Great act of freeing yourself. Well done.
1. I'm happy for you and your husband. Nobody should go through what you did.
2. I don't know how say thiswithout sounding insensitive but this sounds like a movie.
Now THAT’S a love story!!
Awesome! They should be contacting you soon for the movie.
Re: Enemies to lovers: I love what you guys said about Pride & Prejudice because the enemies to lovers stories I like best always take place over a long period of time. That said, I tend to like the trope more in fanfiction as the long-form of it allows for passage of time (similar to how in P&P there was a notable passage of time) rather than a movie where the story only has 2 hours to construct the plot, and while it CAN be done in a movie, it's typically played up as a very fast transformation from enemies to lovers which I don't like. That said, I definitely think the more appropriate term for what I like is Enemies to friends to lovers.
I agree, enemies to lovers requires something long-form like a book series/fanfic or a tv show
I would say disney's beauty and the beast did a decent enemies to lovers too. Even in limited time
I agree 👍 I like writing fanfic and the characters I ship are "enemies" but I love writing scenes where they get to know each other as people and as friends.
@@nessyness5447 I love beauty and the beast, but i feel like that movie (along with pride & prejudice 2005) is an exception to the general rule that the enemies to lover tropes in movies, while entertaining and successfully touchy-feely, end up portraying unhealthy or toxic attributes and behaviors.
@@MSPula yeah, i def prefer that trope in fics or tv shows that have more time for it. Or movie sagas even . Than one short movie. There are exceptions like the mentioned ones, tho.
I think Groundhog Day is just a little different because he’s a fixer upper but in kind of fixable ways - he’s just kind of selfish and arrogant, not a horrible womanizer or anything. And her character doesn’t like him and rejects him until he learns to do the right thing because it’s the right thing (though each day is a new day so it’s not her love that changes him and she doesn’t know any different each time). I think she has healthy boundaries about that and says no until he’s actually a good person after a year or whatever. Great video though!
I like to think that in Groundhog day one of the main reasons Phil changes is the natural inclination for people that spend a lot of time together to become similar to each other. But unlike real life where both move toward some sort of average, Rita resets back to her starting position every day. As Phil spends more and more time with her he gets pulled closer and closer to her attitudes. I also agree that she was good with her boundaries and I love that he gets her by not trying to get her: he just wanted to do all the good things he could that day.
Yeah, Rita doesn't fix Phil in Groundhog Day. He fixes himself through (10,000) years of realizing being a jerk makes him less happy than being a good person.
The "If he's rich and handsome, it's fifty shades of grey, if he's broke in a trailer park it's a criminal minds episode" meme is amazing 😂😂😂😂