TITANIC: Love Triangles and Compatibility
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 พ.ค. 2024
- How do you know if you're compatible with someone?
Licensed therapist Jonathan Decker and filmmaker Alan Seawright take a look at the love triangle in Titanic to see if Rose's love interests were actually a good fit for her. As you get to know someone in a relationship, they'll reveal their character to you, but how can you tell early on? Rose DeWitt-Bukater only knew Jack Dawson for a few short days, and they came from very different backgrounds. Rose and Cal Hockley had known each other longer, and came from similar backgrounds, but compatibility is a lot more than that. Jonathan shares some tips for assessing compatibility, picking the right partner, and building a relationship on a strong foundation.
And Alan geeks out about James Cameron's awesomeness, the incredible performances from Leonardo DiCaprio, Kate Winslet, Billy Zane, and Kathy Bates, and how making the boat a character was sheer cinematic genius.
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Written by: Megan Seawright, Jonathan Decker, and Alan Seawright
Produced by: Jonathan Decker, Megan Seawright, and Alan Seawright
Edited by: Sophie Téllez
Director of Photography: Bradley Olsen
English Transcription by: Anna Preis
Spanish Transcription by: Juan Willems - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
Another trick the movie uses is that everything is told complete from Rose perspective. So if everything is maybe a tad too shiny or if her fiancee is a little bit too cartoonish while Jack is maybe a little bit too perfect fits perfectly because those are HER memories.
You could even say the perspective is seen through Rose tinted glasses.
I'll see myself out
@@connorlander hehe
@@gracehaven5459 Cool, I will check it out.
@@connorlander Screw Brazil, I'm sending you to the TITANIC.
But Cal’s behavior is objectively abusive. That’s not just made up
When the maid comes in after the table is overturned and, clearly knowing what actually happened, takes Rose's hand and tries to comfort her... that hit home. These two women both have so little say in their lives and despite the class differences the maid understood what Rose was going through.
One of the best scenes in this movie! And apparently, the table flip was actually improvised - Kate's shock was authentic.
I think that scene is legitimately my favorite in the movie for exactly that reason!
I can NEVER handle that scene 😭😭😭 it hits way too close to home for anyone who has every felt powerless in their relationship
I've never been in an abusive relationship, but I have felt powerless before. I hate that feeling.
And for that reason I love Trudy, even if she barely has any lines and is a background character. That gesture was so perfect.
The thing about Jack catching her eyes when he first sees her that really gets me now is that it is not a lustful look he gives her. He is an artist who draws from life and is always looking at people for the stories their lives tell. He sees her standing alone on that deck with such a solemn and distant look on her face and his artist’s mind is immediately drawn to wondering what her story is. As later during the scene when she says “oh I know what you’re thinking, poor little rich girl, what does she know about misery?” His reply is so telling. “No, that’s not what I was thinking. What I was thinking was what could have happened to this girl to make her think she had no way out?” I love that scene and he offers his ear to listen freely and he truly listens and sees. It’s beautiful.
That is so well spoken, very much is beautiful
It was a lustful look.
@@travisboutilier2220 Thank you kind sir for your opinion. I shall place it where it belongs. Up my… fill in the blank.
@@ericspearman2998 That doesn't sound very nice.
@@travisboutilier2220 People like you who talk that way don’t get respect from me. You’ve been trolling around this comment section for months apparently just trying to stir shit. Well, not here. Go about your life elsewhere and learn where your brand of arrogance and self-superiority are clearly not wanted.
Apart from being the “perfect boyfriend material” I think Jack really represents how to handle extreme situations effectively.
Someone who paints naked prostitutes and sleeps with other people's fiancées is the perfect boyfriend material, huh? I guess we all have to thank Hollywood for that because nobody would know without them teaching us.
I haven't watched the film, at least not all the way through, in many years, probably close to when it came out, 25 years ago.
So, can you give specific examples of what you're talking about?
@@thecowboy9698 I'm not the original commenter, but throughout the sinking, Jack always looks for another solution to any problem when a previous solution fails or is no longer an option. He only looses his cool once and even then, it's what motivates him to positively take matters into his own hands(with some help). He assesses whatever situation he's in and then makes his decisions thoughtfully but deliberately. He remains positive and does not give up until the absolute last possible second.
Well he died so
@@shotty2164shut up
Fun Fact: Rose's heartbreaking line of "Jack, this is where we first met!" was improvised by Kate Winslet. It makes sense why Leo looks slightly confused afterwards!
Cool
At best unconditional love leads to resent at best at worse why people stay in bad relationships
@@swimdownx6365 The people that stay in toxic relationships are probably deeply insecure about themselves mostly.
Ad-libs are 90% crap. But when they work, man... They work!
This is a great line and incredibly timely! The thing that it was improvised explains its dashing sincerity ❤
I see some people say "It's not romance, it's a fling. Jack and Rose would not have lasted"
But the point is that for the first time, Rose had an intimate and loving relationship with a man who respected her as a person and partner, not a status trophy. Doesn't matter if they wouldn't have lasted. She was actually happy. Would rather have many little lasting relationships where I'm happy and respected than a long one where I am mistreated an belittled. That is romance. Love is still love, not matter how long the relationship lasts.
Well said and so true.
Yes!! It's the same argument in Romeo and Juliet. It's not a love story, truly, it's a tragedy but not because they felt love for each other. Maybe it was too fast, maybe it was never going to last, but we don't have the right to tell them it wasn't real, because they felt it and now we'll never know what would have happened. The tragedy of their relationship is not due to them, it's because of the world who wouldn't let them be happy.
Jack felt something real for Rose and as she said, he saved her. This was what helped Rose also seek and fight for her own freedom and feel again.
"Some love stories aren't epic novels. Some are short stories, but that doesn't make them any less filled with love.”
I don't like the Sex & The City movies, but this is one of my favourite quotes (in relation to Samantha Jones and Jerry 'Smith' Jerrod breaking up).
@@BonnyT I've never seen Sex & The City, but that's a good quote.
No I don't want that amount of emotional baggage either. It becomes harder and harder to pair bond the more partners you have. Not caring if the relationship last shows that you're just in it to use that person for your own happiness, not because you're there to invest in the life of another person. It's a lack of commitment, selfishness, and laziness. Two generations ago people could stay married for 50, 60 years and they only grew to love their spouses more and more through the rough times. Those are the people that I seek relationship advice from.
The old couple in bed as the ship is sinking, is the real-life equivalent of Jack and Rose. She had an opportunity to get on the lifeboat, but they decided as a couple to go as they had lived, together. It’s so heartwarming and yet so heart wrenching at the same time.
The actors played Mr. and Mrs. Strauss. He was one of the founders of Macy's Department Store. It is true that she refused to leave her husband, and they died together...yes, very heart-warming.
My dad loves this movie and every time we watch it on new years- he fully breaks off in tears and sometimes refuses to look at the scene with the mother putting the children to sleep and the old couple
Yeah they offered her a seat but she refused to leave her husband. They then offered him a seat because of his age but he refused to take a seat that a woman or child might have needed. Supposedly they spent much of the time left in deck chairs, holding hands.
@@robingran8947 It makes me think of Noah and Allie from The Notebook. They held hands and died in their sleep at the nursing home. And people shit on The Notebook, man we can't have any nice things.
@@applebrush7600 she gave her seat to her maid.
As a mother myself that scene where the mother is putting her kids to bed as the ship sinks is absolutely gut wrenching. I can’t even imagine.
Yes same 💔
Oh, me too. Broke my heart.
That was the first time I cried at a movie.
@A Sutter Fun fact: the actress playing the Irish mother was also in another James Cameron movie, Aliens I think. And as Alan said, Cameron did a perfect job in casting. Even Kate Winslet, keeping the soft criticism that Alan mentioned in mind. You know, the problem of being in- and out-of-character. But she was 21 years of age at the time, and thus, can be easily forgiven. Not to forget, Kate Winslet was crucial in selling the lovestory ... because, she had such amazing chemistry with Leo. Which without, Titanic would have never become the resounding success that it did.
Its even more sad when you know the story she was telling was a way for the only entrance to the special land is through swimming under water. She was telling her kids their fate in a kid-friendly way to grasp their destiny and thats even more sad
What always strikes me in the scene with Cal and the necklace is how carelessly and loudly he flips her music box closed, shoves it out of the way, and then looms over her as he sits on her vanity. He wasn't interested in sharing a romantic moment with her, he invaded her room and her space to coerce her with a pretty stone on a chain.
Yes. I was looking if someone else thought the same.
That was the only thing I could see.
Also, he overwhelmed her with a LOT of pressure by giving her that pendant. And when she tells him, he brushes it to the side.
i noticed immediately. he has no respect for her belongings even the little things can show red flags
Yes, he just barges in and demands her attention. When she calls the necklace "overwhelming," he lacks the empathy to note that she might not mean that in an entirely positive way. He's so self-centered.
When I was little I only noticed him trying to be nice and "she not giving him a chance, because she likes somebody else". I actually have seen memes about him being the actual "victim" because "she used him to get a trip, jury, fancy staff, royal treatment, and then she just abandoned him for somebody else".
It's funny that when you are not yet aware of the common behavior in abusive relationships, you might be unaware of this narcissistic, egocentric and abusive treat.
That was my impression too, from the start. She was there, having a moment, and he slammed it shut in her face. Also like "IDK why you're melancholy" without bothering to ask her why. There was no "What are you listening to?" or "is now a good moment to talk?" No questions from him, only demands.
Making Rose the sexual aggressor with Jack is important because it shows that she actually likes sex and is not above making a move, as long as she likes the man. She wants to have sex, just not with Cal.
It also prevents her from being this inexperienced, innocent girl, who just goes along with the first lovely guy who enters her life. No, she wants this!
Good take!
I was thinking in less subtle terms: a sexually aggressive man is-for various reasons-threatening. The audience might have some worries about her consent. And you're right, there are signs of her interest well before the drawing-such as when she looks through his notebook.
YES! It’s also the fact that jack respecting her and not sexually aggressing her while still showing interest turns her on! Like it would for most women. Jack sees her as a human being and allows her to be her & make her own choices. She’s so empowered with him on every level even in her sexuality vs the other guy disempowered her and dehumanizes & objectifies her.
It has interesting historical connotations too, as for women in this era showing any sexual aggression (and in fact, often any active sex drive at all) was considered immoral or lower-class. So Rose's taking the lead in her intimicay with Jack is also a way of emphasizing the transgressive side of her character, already hinted at in things like her smoking (also taboo for women at that time).
I like Allan's explanation, it's because she's the protagonist so it HAS TO be her choice. Also, to add to your point which is brilliant, Billy Zane is a good-looking gentleman. He's the definition of "Tall, dark, and handsome" and I'm happy that JC cast Zane as Cal to show that Rose's preferences are not skin deep despite being physically attractive herself.
In the scene where Cal throws the table: what’s so scary and such great acting is how he goes from rage to speaking calmly within seconds. Almost like he is deliberately choosing to act violently when he throws the table. He isn’t getting violent because he lost his temper. He knows exactly what he is doing and is actively deciding to act that way in order to scare, manipulate, and control Rose. It just makes it that much more terrifying than if he had been acting that way because he was unable to control his emotions.
If I remember correctly, the table flip was not in the script and that could be why the emotions from Rose feels so genuine
@@AndieSchweizer yeah that’s true!
Well she was acting like a cold bitch tbh
@@AndieSchweizerit wasn’t in the script initially, but both actors talked with the director to make it happen.
To be fair, she ran off and danced all night with another man, then acted like a brat when he tried to talk to her about it. So it's understandable that he lost his temper.
A lot of the deleted scenes add more lore to the story. In one deleted scene Trudy has a conversation with Rose with the paintings. Trudy expressed her excitement being able to experience working at the Titanic. Rose didn't mind listening to her and sharing a conversation with a mere servant. Then Cal comes in and ruins their chat by ordering Trudy away. This just shows that Rose's character never belittled the lower class even at the start of the film so it's no surprise when she was at the party, she didn't feel contempt against the poor people.
i almost wish their was a longer version with less cuts LOL
So many of the deleted scenes add more depth to the characters, I wish they had an extended edition!
@@lydiademarek A lot more. Jack's friendship with Fabrizio and Tommy was also shown more in the deleted scenes. They helped him sneak in the first class to get to Rose, showing that they were more involved as Jack's friends. There's a scene where Rose mentions her dreams to Jack, where she hopes maybe she could become a dancer or an actress(she becomes an actress as stated by one of the treasure hunters). Rose's depression was portrayed better in the deleted scenes. In the movie we only saw her running towards the stern of the ship to try and jump off but there's a deleted scene before that happened. She went back to her room, distraught by her arranged marriage. She feels trapped so she starts to hyperventilate. She couldn't breathe because of the corset and the dress so she calls for Trudy but she's not there at the moment. So Rose panics and tries to take everything off of her, and she breaks everything out of frustration. She then looks up seeing herself in the mirror. She stares at herself for a moment, looking all messed up and trapped. She slams the mirror away and then runs which then connects to the scene where she tries to jump. This deleted scene makes her attempt to jump off more understandable given her situation. James Cameron really built a detailed lore of his story. It's just that he couldn't include all of them because it was already 3 hours long(an already rare length for a single movie) but the lore is all there.
I ❤ that Rose and Trudy have a strong female bond in this movie.
@@kellysmith5873 Though Trudy was one of the fictional characters. Her death from sliding off and falling into the water was so tragic and to think that a lot of the passengers and crew also experienced the same really shows how heartbreaking this tragedy was. No wonder the news of Titanic was such a shock to everybody during those times.
So fun fact: the sets were replicated so perfectly that they discovered what happened to the grand staircase during filming. When the wreck of the Titanic was discovered, the grand staircase was gone and no one knew what happened. It was half assumed that because it was wood, it had rotted. But when they flooded that set, the staircase actually lifted and nearly trapped a crew member. It was determined that because the set was made to the exact same specs as the original Titanic grand staircase, that the same thing happened when the ship went down and the staircase literally lifted up and floated away.
Interesting
Wow! Great fun fact 😄👍
Thanks for sharing that! That is so cool!!! I have a whole new level of respect for this movie now.
Wow that’s super cool
Imagine that they would've included that in the movie. Jack saying: "there is not enough room for both of us" while a huge floating stair swims past in the back.
Historian here. My take about Cal constantly asking Rose to come to his bed: Early 20th-century high society valued virginity. If an upper-class woman had sex before marriage, she could never have a good marriage and was considered "ruined." Cal trying to get her to sleep with him is his way of keeping her even more tied to him because he knows that she'll never be able to marry anyone else once she sleeps with him.
I agree about the lack of knowledge of the times and how people really behaved back then, socially as well as morally - both those characters would have been fully aware of their engaged situation and the woman would have been looking forward to a rich marriage to keep herself in the fashion she was used to, she would never have indulged her whims.
Also because Rose looked like an older sister the "romance " did not work for me as well. Modern actors look "wrong" when the try to portray those times - especially the young women. Perhaps they cannot act as well anymore. I rarely watch films anymore as they have become progressively worse over the years. Just my opinion.
@@ladybug591 your so pessimistic
I always saw it this way - Cal was trying, not (or not just) to get his rocks off, but to put her in a position in which she could no longer leave, in which he had more social power.
@@ladybug591 What the heck are you talking about?
@@ladybug591 What nonsense to think that a woman would be looking FORWARD to a marriage to an abusive psychopath, particularly when her family isn't destitute in the first place. As if no poor man ever married a wealthy woman against her family's wishes; that happened much farther back in history as well, however rarely. The galling choice to put the word "romance" in quotation marks like that... ugh. You make yourself sound like the worst cliche of a boomer.
I always found Titanic overrated, but your criticisms are wholly foolish. At least point to how similar it was to the black-and-white original or something actually valid.
As a woman who has experienced abusive behaviour, I always felt the necklace scene as menacing and threatening disguised by "niceness" . You can clearly sense her discomfort and his control
No the necklace scene is not menacing and threatening. she's just being sensitive.
@@travisboutilier2220 Why? What purpose does this comment have?
@@robincrowflies To let people know that this scene isn't as bad as people make it out to be.
@@travisboutilier2220 Perhaps you've never been a woman in an abusive relationship.
@@robincrowflies I'm a guy and i haven't been in a romantic relationship.
Jack is such a great example of healthy masculinity! So is Fabrizo, when he’s dancing with his lady he asks “can I put my hand here” before outing his hand on her back.
Also, the way hack doesn’t lose his temper even when insulted. ❤
when characters that are supposedly from the 1910s have better manners than nowadays
There was a whole storyline with Fabrizio and that lady he was dancing with that got deleted from the film. Jack wasn’t the only guy finding love on Titanic
@@TheBurgerKingOfAngmar there are a couple background scenes throughout the movie with them, but yeah most of the more focused scenes with them were deleted
And Rose is a great example of toxic feminity. She's a thief, a cheater, rubs it in her fiancees face by leaving the picture with a sarcastic comment to him. Then acts surprised and annoyed when he's angry at her for it.
@@thecensoredmuscle563 Because she never had a choice in any of this ! They are forcing her to be with a man much older than her who she doesn't love. She keeps showing him signals that she doesn't want to be with him but the guy keeps on pushing and even becomes violent. He never actually respected her. So of course she wants to live her life like she wants, to find true love and to get away from this awful situation which she has no espace from. What is she supposed to do? She's 17 !
"Staying means nothing unless you're free to leave"
"But going with someone means nothing unless you're free not to"
Dayum, hitting us all with some of life's greatest lessons within the half minute mark, I salute you
All about consent, which means more than most think
Could someone please explain? Maybe it is because English isn't my first language, but I find all those double negatives very confusing.
@@chatnoir60609 you could read them this way: The act of *choosing* to stay shows its value, when given that you have the option to go freely, or else you're just trapped.
And the act of *choosing* to go with someone (hence leaving the other person) shows its value, when given that you have the option not to.
it's about when you have the options, or the condition to make choices, choosing a certain way shows the value of the act, otherwise, you're just forced by the circumstances.
@@jennyng7954 Ohhh, I got it now, thanks a lot, definitely gave the whole sentence lots of new meaning, at least for me. Plus that was beautifully explained :)
'Life: The Greatest Hits'
There’s so much to talk about with Titanic, but one thing that tends to get overlooked is the miracle of empathy that also happened that night. The Carpathia only heard Titanic’s distress call because Carpathia’s wireless operator Harold Cottam decided to be helpful and pass on a message from Cape Cod Massachusetts. When he went to wake Captain Rostron, the captain immediately leapt out of bed and ordered the ship to turn around and head for Titanic. Carpathia was nearly 60 nautical miles away from Titanic, and had to maneuver through the same ice field to reach her. Captain Rostron even ordered Carpathia’s hot water and heating be turned off, so the steam required to produce them could be directed back into the engines for even more speed. They actually managed to surpass Carpathia’s top speed of 14 knots, managing to go at almost 17 1/2 knots while dodging ice in the dark; by rights they shouldn’t have been able to reach Titanic’s coordinates in under four hours, but they made it in 3 1/2, and five hours before any other ships would reach Titanic’s survivors. Both crew and passengers onboard Carpathia offered assistance, with many passengers donating clothing, blankets, and even their berths and staterooms to the survivors. Titanic’s sinking was a tragedy, but in the face of such a disaster, there was also an incredible feat of compassion.
That seems to be the only hopeful and consistently good thing to come out of tragedies like this. Even if it's people doing the hurting, there's always people there willing to help too.
This is something I tell my son when he sees something scary on the news - “look for the helpers”.
In times of war, fires, floods and other devastation look for those who help. They are always there in the background passing out food and water, putting out fires, rescuing animals, giving medical care, etc.
The helpers in times of need are like those onboard the Carpathia, they will help even if it means losing out on something themselves (clothes, blankets, food, sleep, etc).
@@elenalizabeth thank you Mr. Rogers for that piece of wisdom. That’s the quote that’s been keeping me going
This is beautiful. Thank you for sharing. ❤️
@@elenalizabeth Wasn't that a quote from Mr. Rogers?
Another big reason that it makes sense for Rose to be the aggressor is that she’s completely disinterested and turned off by Cal, but romantically and emotionally charged by Jack. He makes her feel good in all the ways she needs it. She’s interested and excited, and that turns to arousal lol
and that is the way to a girl's heart: make her feel good in all ways she needs, make her interested and excited
I want to take a moment to defend Kate Winslet as Rose. She turned 21 while making this movie. That’s so young to carry such a huge production. Nevertheless, carry it she does. We connect to her and her journey and it helps us understand and connect with the tragedy of the Titanic. It doesn’t really matter if some of her scenes could be picked apart. If you took away all the dialogue and all sounds except the music, you could still understand the whole movie through Kate’s eyes and expressions. She is the best actress of her generation and that was just as true then as it is now.
@Marsha Tolbert Everything you say is correct. I wanted to add that James Cameron also had to admit that what Kate Winslet did was really phenomenal. You know, as a 21-year old English actress, having to be an American, teach herself the American accent, be the protagonist and main character in a 3 hour movie, that took 7 months to make, get naked, spent a lot of time in cold water and have a $200 million budget resting on your shoulder.
Kate Winslet kept pursuing Cameron to cast her as Rose, because, he was still looking for an American actress, really showed how much she wanted it. Which thus explains her performance, because, you could sense and feel how much heart and blood, sweat and tears she put into the role of Rose and making the movie a success. She's amazing.
@@victorsamsung2921 Thank you 😊
Yeah I think her performance is amazing! I genuinely don't know what scenes they're saying weren't good 😅
@@victorsamsung2921and yet Cameron famously referred to her as "Kate Weighs-a-lot" throughout filming. He's a piece of work.
@@sharpeslass5452 Interesting. Do you have a source? If true, it makes sense for Cameron to be a little cheeky towards his actors and poke fun to ease the stress. He knew full well during his many different productions, how difficult and complicated they were, including for everyone involved. He was 100% sure with casting Winslet eventually, so he had no regret. Then, to make fun of the fake news and such, criticizing her weight, does add up. To tell Kate not to take the criticism personal.
In terms of historical details added to the story...there was a woman who testified in the hearings after the sinking and said she had overheard the captain and Ismay discussing increasing the speed. This scene happens in the movie and if you look in the background there is a woman extra who over hears the same conversation. To have a real historical person added that doesn't have any lines AND is only seen once is an incredible detail.
The man on the edge of the railing when the Titanic was vertical was also one of the survivors of the sinking, as he had gone to that spot and drank a lot of alcohol to warm his body.
EDIT: people think I'M saying alcohol warms the body. Science obviously disproves that. I'm simply quoting the biography out of respect for Mr. Joughin.
@@TheDragonsRose It's a baker Charles Joughin :)
@@Monicalia Thanks, I forgot his name and didn't Google it until after lol
Woah...
@@TheDragonsRose alcohol actually makes your body heat drop
In a way, that necklace was a perfect representation of Cal and Rose's relationship. A beautiful regal stone attached to a chain, very heavy and overwhelming
Like a dog chain to show she was his property
*Spoiler Alert*
And then in the end she drops it back into the sea XD
@@graceless000 That also represents Cal and Rose's relationship. Sleeping with the fishes.
It's a collar.
@@graceless000 Because she's free of him. Rose is no longer Cal's prisoner. That necklace is basically a diamond encrusted dog collar.
I LOVE that scene 15:37 where he literally stops her music. And it just tells so much about their relationship. He takes her joy away, without even thinking about it. Not concidering her at all.
Yeah. RED FLAG.
Right! One of those subtle moments I had *never* even thought about, until this video and reading the comments. Cameron truly is such a brilliant genius. You know, the way that Rose also looks at the music box as Cal shoves it away ... it's all in the minor details at times.
you know if Cal lived in present day he would've been one of those guys to casually yank your headphones out your ears to 'chat you up' on the bus or smth
Waao true
Agreed - he just casually closes it and pushes it away - symbolic of him being dismissive of what she actually values. Then he pushes it to the side and sits where it was - saying that there’s no room for anything else in her life but him. This is why I love film, you can say SO MUCH about the characters and their relationship with just a prop and the right blocking.
THANK you for mentioning the door scene!! It always bothered me that people said he could fit and that Rose just let him die for no reason, but right when they found the door, they tried to both go on and it started sinking. THAT'S why Jack stayed in the water. He knew that if they stayed in the water they would freeze to death, but he didn't want her to die. It's like he said, he lived up north and knew how bad ice water could be, so he sacrificed himself so she could live
I've been saying this for years! It really bothered me too. I felt like I was the only one who actually paid attention to that scene..
Physics background: of course the door would start sinking: it has a limited buoyancy (weight of water displaced = weight of what displaces the water). The thing is: she's wet, and the air is freezing, or near-freezing too. She could very well die from hypothermia just from being wet in near-freezing air. But sitting together on the door, even if somewhat sunk, they could lose less body heat by holding each other. By having less skin exposed to freezing conditions, overall, they could have both survived. That being said, it may seem counter-intuitive right away, so they may have truly believed it was the only way.
The door theory i wont poke my nose into, because to me no matter what jack would have died anyway because of the cold regartless of him being on the door or not. He was the one of the two who has been wet the longest so his temperatur is low beforehand.
I have felt just an inkling of how cold it was via a museumpiece (the topic was titanic funny enogh) that allowed guest to feel how cold the water was at the time, and i could hold for 20 second. You have to remember people had to be in those waters for hours. So if you did find something to clime on to, hyperthermia would have killed you anyway, the difference is just how fast or slow it would be.
Sorry for that little rant there, but the story of titanic as a whole, the romance, the real story event, the 'love treackel' I love it all, you just get sucked in to the story and you believe it.
On the other hand, if Rose had listened to Jack and stayed on the lifeboat, he could have used all his strength to save himself instead of having to use some of his attention and strength on her, and had the door to himself to boot. Cue happy reunion on the Mauritania. (Assuming he didn’t get all noble and sacrifice himself to save someone else along the way.)
@@MissJubilee Mauritania?
Say what you will about the ending with Jack and Rose, the old couple laying on the bed together always gets me crying.
The way he is gripping onto her in their final moments 😭
I know, that is the one scene in the whole movie during which I actually weep like a baby!
They were based off a real couple too!
for me it's the mother telling her kids the bedtime story it gets me every time
@@caoimhepower395 thanks for telling us, I didn't need my heart anyway 😭😭😭😭
I never considered that Cal was trying to get Rose to sleep with him in that scene. I always took his “if you would not deny me” as him acknowledging Rose’s standoffishness to him, and asking that she give him a chance and bond with him - probably believing that her distance from him was just because she resented their arranged marriage, rather than genuinely disliking him. The potential sex thing does add another layer though.
I had another therapist say love should be conditional or it's exploitive
Same!
@@swimdownx6365 Why do you keep replying to comments with non-relevant points that seem to just be about your dislike of unconditional love? It's not really a topic in this episode (I feel at least) so I'm just curious as to what your reasoning is for all the (kind of irrelevant) comments?
Me too, then they said it was about sex and I was like "what!"
Probably it's due to my own experience but this "if you do not deny me" line has always sounded like "if you do as I command". Especially the tone he applies. None of the understanding or the effort to make a contact or to reach another people's feelings, it is a demand to fullfill his expectancies.
I never saw Titanic as a love triangle story. I saw it as a story about a depressed woman who seemed to have everything, but truly had nothing.
She longed for freedom and found freedom through love.
She just so happened to be with someone at the time, but everything about her life before Jack was chosen for her. Jack allowed her to chose for her self.
She was not depressed, she was just dramatic and ungrateful, she does have everything . well too bad for her, she can't have freedom, it doesn't work that way for first class ladies.
@@travisboutilier2220 Rose's character was depressed. It's seen from the moment that the elder Rose boards the Keldysh, conversates with Brock and tells her story from the moment the young, almost 18-year old Rose walks on the ramp boarding Titanic, that she was feeling bad about herself.
This is what Cameron wrote in the script, describing and detailing Rose's character as she was about to jump from the ship, in how she was feeling: _" She is crying, her cheeks streaked with tears. But also angry, furious! Shaking with emotions she doesn't understand... hatred, self-hatred, desperation."_
As you can read, Rose was someone full with doubts and lacking any sort of sign showing she was happy with herself and who she was.. That includes even her own stunning appearance, which she apparently doesn't see or recognize. Which happens often with people that are depressed.
@KitCat898 Nailing it. It was exactly the way Cameron made his approach towards Rose's character in the movie and wrote her the way he did. It was about her journey from a young girl turning into this fully grown, mature and confident woman. But also someone full with doubts and *not* seeing the forest through the trees. You know, unable to feel, understand and appreciate her own beauty, talents and strengths, due to the fact that she was constantly held back by this 1st class life/status that got shoved down her throat from birth.
It was the motive of Jack's character, that he was a device who would set Rose free. You know, free/cure her from the depression and reach within.
@@travisboutilier2220 What is it with the shallow toxicity on this channel?
@@WynneL There is no toxicity.
Billy Zane is awesome. I met him at a comic-con and he had so much time for every single person he came across and a genuine interest in all of them. Then he accidentally stood on my foot, apologised profusely and gave me the biggest bear hug and wouldn't leave until I told him I was perfectly alright and that he hadn't hurt me. He felt so guilty and was a total darling 🤣 Nicest person I've ever encountered along with John Rhys-Davies.
That’s funny because they both often play the bad guy
@@emusaurus Talk about Neal McDonaugh. Often plays the villain and bad guy in movies and TV-series too, but in real-life, very humble, kind and down-to-earth. In fact, Neal refuses to do roles where he has to kiss other women, because, of his Catholic Faith, commitment and not wanting to feel like cheating on his wife.
aww that's so sweet!
You are very blessed ughh 😭💞💖
They're always nothing like the men they play
It's interesting how before watching this analysis, Titanic never seemed to have a love triangle to me. It was always about Jack and Rose. The fiancee was just there, like a villain or something.
Yeah, I never considered it a "love triangle" because it was so obvious there was no "love" between rose and cal on either end.
I don't really think of it as a love triangle. She didn't love Cal. A love triangle is when someone love two other people and has to decide how to handle it. This was more a choice or duty and misery versus freedom and identity.
She loved Jack, but choosing him meant turning her back on tradition, family, duty, the world and life she's always known. It meant adventure and uncertainty. Choosing Cal meant depression, hiding herself, losing agency, but being safe, pleasing her mother, and staying in the same life and class that was familiar.
@@Andreamom001 she was definitely not safe from that abusive relationship with cal
@@fairoadiary I think she meant financially safe.
Cal has no substance in real life and to Rose. So he leaves no impression.
The part that always gets me is how Jack lays his head on Rose's chest after they make love. Rose even says ''you're trembling''. He takes on the stereotypical 'feminine' role while Rose leads in the more typically 'masculine' role. I think this made their relationship even more compelling and showed that there were more layers than what you may have first thought when seeing Jack and Rose. 😭😭
Good point! I noticed that when first watching the film, & thought it was interesting addition to the gender-interactions story they were telling...? It actually puzzled me a bit how composed Rose was in that moment, not even breathing hard - honestly made me wonder if she'd actually gained any pleasure from what they'd done, or was still having to wait for a guy who could satisfy her! Might just have been a quirk of the acting though?
I like that scene. It was kind of a fourth wall breakage. It was Jack being like, 'Dude, this is all like a lot. Within the span of a few days I went from being homeless to on the Titanic and in a relationship with a gorgeous woman in first class who just took my virginity and it was like really good.' (I imagine Jack's a virgin since he tells Rose he didn't have a love affair with the French prostitute.)
@@laurie_guilbeau Yeah, it definitely comes across as him at least not having a lot of experience.
@@tomsgrexit I also like how Jack asks Rose if she's nervous right before they have sex. He sounds nervous as he asks. Then she says no. There's nothing necessarily wrong with being nervous before your first time with somebody, but her response communicates to him how secure she feels in their relationship.
Anyway, Rose's dominance makes the scene sexier than a typical male dominant sex scene. "Put your hands on me, Jack."
It's crazy how timeless their relationship is, they would be written just the same in 2022
I always feel so bad for Trudy. She's probably one of the first to get a "proper" job in her family and she figured seeing the world would be a perk.
Instead she died because she was sent back to her employer's room to heat up water for tea.
I also feel bad for her 😢 You can actually hear in the movie when the ship is tilted upwards that someone yells at her “Hang on Miss Trudy!” but she doesn’t make it 😢
It is just a script ladies - not real - Hollywood is playing with your emotions. Poor servant girl treated badly by rich employers etc. etc. and so on and so forth.
And her employer never thought about her again, probably. Maybe to wonder what happened to her, but not often and no deeper than that.
@@ladybug591we’re not dumb. People can feel for characters tf
@@ladybug591 are you saying poor people aren't mistreated by the upper class in the real world?
Speaking as a historian: most of the primary accounts for any historical event come from the upper class so that creates bias. Jack, being a steerage passenger, is much more compelling because he is telling the stories we don't get to hear very often. Sure we could focus on the people who we have accounts for but that was mostly first class people. Those individuals in steerage don't get their voice in that story.
@Katie If you have *not* seen the deleted scenes of Titanic, you should, because, there are quite a few number of them, which puts those in steerage, like Jack, Fabrizio, Tommy, Cora and Helga etc. in a better light. You know, getting to see the voyage more from their perspective. And it was all quite wonderfully done by Cameron.
The British (probably BBC) mini series about the Titanic is also great to watch, for anyone interested in seeing how different classes experienced it.
“Staying means nothing unless you’re free to leave, but going with someone means nothing unless you’re free not too.”
Say it louder for the people in the back!!
Amen ♥♥♥♥♥
Woah...
James Cameron actually did a 20 years later documentary where he actually talked about how awful he felt taking artistic liberties with real people’s lives, so I think the decision to create fictitious characters to follow through the story of the ship was actually incredibly smart. In that sense, he wouldn’t have to justify or apologize for anything that happened to the characters but could instead tell a very probable, relatable, and organic story through them.
Although, the liberties taken with Murdoch's person were addressed in court. Not sure how well know this is, but the scene in which he shoots a renegade passenger who tries to steal a spot on a life boat and then, immediately regretting that decision, takes his own life...his family sued, stating that he never would have done that. (I think I got his name right, it has been a while since I'd watched the whole movie)
@@dorianwilde6939 yes exactly. That’s exactly who I was talking about too. He talks about how he didn’t even consider the people who were on the titanic as real human beings, just parts of the puzzle and that was one of his biggest regrets in making the movie.
@@dorianwilde6939 There were over 37 witnesses that made the accusation that Murdoch took these actions. There were about 100 total witnesses, many with even a vague suggestion, such as Lightholler claiming it was a senior officer.
Agreed! I've seen people talk about how a "real" story with "real" people would've been much more interesting but to me it feels so callous. To theorize and make up how these people felt in those moments just seems a little bit nauseating, and in any way, they would still be characters, not any more real or truthful just because they were names that existed. Our ability to connect with them is in how well they're written and performed, it doesn't really matter that they never existed because in a way, we've all felt like they do at one point or another in our lives.
@@liv97497 so fun fact, there is a placard for a J Dawson at the Canadian cemetery where many of the bodies from the Titanic washed ashore. But I think it was John or something, not Jack
From what I understand about that that scene with Cal rage flipping the table. The reason that Kate looks so shocked is because it was unscripted and she had no idea that it was going to happen. So that fear on her face was actually very real.
That's actually terrifying. Geez
yeah, she cheated, but I understand why.
@@elizagaskell7957 whenever you people mention the whole "cheating" thing it's like you're saying Rose "owes" Cal something or whatever
@@monabohamad2242 I agree. It's not "cheating" him if she was forced and didn't want him in the first place.
@@elizagaskell7957 she was engaged by arrangement. Her mother further explains it to her as she's tying her corset. Cheating would be a very loose term here if not inaccurate.
The most perfect piece to this movie is the distinction between the dinner party in first class and the party below deck. Upstairs you have rules. use the cutlery properly, sit up straight, stick with the dress code. It's boring and lifeless, yet this is the place everyone fights to get to. Yet downstairs, there are no rules. Everyone knows everyone, everyone loves everyone. You drink from the same glasses, you smoke, you stomp, you laugh. Even the music is far more upbeat. No care in the world. It truly reflects what Leo's character said at the beginning of the film. 'When you've got nothing, you've got nothing to lose.' When you grow up with so little, you appreciate things so much more, just as the character states at the table in first class. The speech he addresses to them is absolutely perfect.
Youre wrong with "no care in the world". They care MUCH more. Thats why they get drunk more. Blow off steam.
It’s Irish culture lol. All the pubs are like that here
By creating the main characters they can tell a story that spans the different classes. Also, you don't have to worry about harming the reputation, or bend the story of real people with real descendants.
True that. It's ok to let it be fictional. Not everything needs to be a "true story"
This is very true. In the film Murdoch ends up shooting a few passengers and then himself and this caused this exact problem. He still has living family and they did not like the way he was portrayed. He is regarded as a hero for going down with the ship after getting people onto lifeboats. His family ended up getting compensation. Using fictional characters as the protagonists was definitely a good call.
@@williamjohnson5229 they took a gamble including that part anyway since that was one of the more controversial stories of the sinking. Controversial about whether or not it happened that is.
Agreed, having fictional characters means it isn’t exploitative of real families. It’s a bonus in historical fiction stories, but there the only “fiction” is the lens of perspective from these two main characters, everything else is non fiction accuracy
And I don't have to wonder how much they made up. They just made up everything (except the setting of course). Sooo relaxing.
I will add that your partner being violent around you (flipping a table, punching a wall instead of you, slamming the breaks in a car so you hit your head on the dash) is abuse. I didn't know that while I was in an abusive relationship. I thought abuse had to be physically connecting with me to be real abuse. But that's not true... Cal was abusing Rose by throwing the table and this would have escalated once they were married. If your partner is being violent around you...you are being abused, and you need to get out.
Definitely. Same for me and it irks me when people asked if he ever hit me. I always respond "He didn't have to"
Well sh*t 😂 can’t really move out of my parents house but it’s nice for my fears to be validated (expected in the comment section of cinema therapy)
The whole point of these actions is to prove they can hurt you to scare you into thinking they can and will hurt you. Even if they don’t touch you physically they want to. I had this happen to me and they always particularly chose to break things that belonged to me or things that were close to me.
I feel with you. So wish I new these things when that was me witnessing my ex being abusive ten years ago. To others and around me like you mention. Stayed with him for almost five years, I tried to leave like four times during those years. Taken a long time to realise just how much damage he did.
It’s emotional abuse that will eventually turn into physical abuse if you leave them too late
I am a little bit dissapointed about you guys not mentioning that when Rose rejects Jack, he steps away, but Cal actually tries to kill them both, because in abusive relationships that is how things work. Some people blame those who don't come out of abusive relation ships, but it is when those break-ups happen when the abuse can get more intense, scary and sometimes deathly.
You’re not seeing this from the Man’s perspective, He’s a rich guy who offers security & you get chosen over for a homeless bum, I’d pop him too
I was one of the tween girls who saw this film multiple times in theaters and like everything else young girls love, it got so much belittling and backlash. I spent so much energy defending Titanic. I'm glad to see people are coming around to just how good it was.
@Barbara Stanwyck Thank you for sharing your story. Speaking as a male. I was too young in the late 90s to watch Titanic, but I do vividly remember the hype around the movie and LeoMania etc. For it was hard to ignore it with Pop Culture all around you growing up.
That aside, for a long period of time I was one of those viewers who wanted Jack to live and make it ashore with Rose. Exactly, because, of what Decker mentions about Jack representing "healthy" masculinity ... and the fact that he had an interesting character development too. That includes, maybe even having sex for the first time in his life. Which DiCaprio funnily enough joked about later in an interview. Sharing that he and Winslet would joke around on set, while they were doing the scene to break the ice and make each other more comfortable etc. That includes the "portrait' scene too.
Either way, say what you will and want to say, but one can *not* deny that Titanic is a masterpiece. Regardless, of what you think should have happened to its fictional characters. Keeping in mind Jack, Rose, her mother Ruth, her maid Trudy, Cal, Fabrizio and Tommy etc. were all 100% fictional and an invention by Cameron himself, and thus, having free range in terms of what to do with them, including who lives and who doesn't.
But beyond the fictional characters and the fictional story of Rose & Jack, I can appreciate Titanic for its brilliant music by James Horner, the accurate set pieces of the Grand Staircase and building a 9/10th replica of the real ship, the costume designs and as Alan said, the amazing casting. You know, there are more ways to appreciate the movie. Even if you don't necessarily like the story, pace or ending of Rose & Jack itself.
Even now saying i went to see titanic in theaters in rerelease again people are like, “really? You’re going to see ‘titanic’?” As if its a bad thing. “But its so cringe”, no, jt is not. It is one of the most incredible films ever. The love story might be considered cringe but so what? Some people like that
If it makes you feel any better, this movie has always been bigger than its criticisms. It’s the 3rd highest grossing film ever. That’s not just teen girls watching. That’s EVERYONE.
It swept the Oscars. It got its critical acclaim. The DVD sales and re-releases for this movie have been record-breaking, which shows how much audiences love it. This was the biggest thing on the PLANET when it came out. Everyone who has watched Hollywood movies has either seen or heard of it. It’s pop culture impact is timeless even to this day.
You’re only debating a very vocal minority about this movie. This movie is completely bulletproof. For every 1 person that criticizes it, there’s atleast 10 people that adore it. You’re good.
I was one of the people who thought to himself "durrr, this movie sucks! They didn't know each other long enough"
But I admit, I think I'm warming up to it
It's a story about a young lady's happiness and freedom. And that's beautiful
ppl will attack anything teenage girls like, in an attempt for an edgelord differentiation from what's widely liked. you see it in movies like titanic and even musical greats like Elvis, nirvana and the Beatles. if anything, most of the great arts' pillar of success are due to teen girls, which are then obviously shadowed and looked over once ppl start to acknowledge how good something really is.
The scene where Cal gives Rose the necklace is a perfect summation of his relationship flaws. It's very subtle, and it's entirely in his body language and movement throughout the scene. He doesn't ask Rose if he can come in. He just enters her room. He doesn't ask if he can move the music box and sit on her desk. He just does it. In those two subtle choices Cal makes it's clear that he doesn't respect her and only wants her as an object, not a partner.
Contrast that with the scene of Rose and Jack where he bares his heart to her and then respects her final line "leave me alone". Jack even holds back from kissing her even though it's obvious through Leo's portrayal that he wants to because he respects her and her choices. Jack follows her wish and Rose has to be the one to re engage with Jack. It's wonderful storytelling through subtext and actor's movements in the scene.
YES! And I have been with narcissists who said that “we” thing… it was always about status and filling an image he had of who he wanted to be; I was a puzzle piece, not a real person. And this was exactly how he spoke to her here.
@@abbyabroad I’m really sorry you had to put up with being with someone like that. I’m glad you were able to see the signs for what they are.
Even though movies are fiction they’re still so perfect at portraying real kinds of people and personality types although always with an extra bit of flair.
Happy you got out from those people :)
There's also the whole act of putting on the necklace. It seems a little silly, but when he shows it to her she very audibly says "It's overwhelming." He continues to put on the necklace on her while her expression says she is 100% not into this. It always gave me the impression that somehow looked like he was putting a leash on her, since her face looks like she is trapped, he looks like he's satisfied that he trapped her and the scene lingers on the necklace itself as the focus.
@@Bleuryder woah great insight! I never even noticed that but you’re totally right. He completely controls her in this scene and it’s so unsettling that again he doesn’t ask for consent, he just does it.
John and Alan say this scene could be romantic, but I don’t agree. It just comes across as controlling. Billy Zane is a great actor because he really made me uncomfortable in what could have easily been a romantic scene.
@@MistaZULE What I heard them say was that the scene could have been a romantic scene if Cal weren’t a toxic abusive jerk. But he was that jerk, and therefore it was absolutely not romantic the way it was played. And that’s the correct way for the movie. It really is an awesome movie, and these details are part of why.
Wow... Your comment about Jack being a good example of healthy masculinity hits home. Very long story short, I saw this movie in theaters when I was 17 with my bf who later on became my husband. He hated the movie because he was jealous of Leo and accused me of only wanting to see it because of him, ignoring the fact that I had been fascinated by the Titanic from a young age. Throughout our marriage, he proved himself to be VERY mentally abusive, gaslighter (the real definition), and controlling. Now I can understand why he hated Jack so much. Because he was Cal.
Hopefully he also became your exhusband unless he managed to change
@@kimlarsen6779 He DID become my exhusband. I think he did end up changing because from what I've heard, his new wife is the dominant one and he can't get away with stuff anymore
@@moon-moth1 He is, but sadly it was after 13 years of marriage. I admit, I need therapy to deal with the left over trauma
I have a theory that men not liking Titanic is a red flag. Thanks for adding to my list of evidence.
@@nirellediamond Hopefully you still have the diamond ... and don't intend on using it. 'Cause, you will never learn or understand what life is like and all its beauty with it.😉
Titanic is one of those movies that I just can't bear to watch because it's so emotionally heavy. The romance is kind of eh (although still a good one) but the sinking is just so heartbreaking. There's scenes of children crying because they're scared and they can't find their mom or dad, and I just... I can't. Something something inner child and abandomnent issues probably lol.
The ship sinking is way too realistic. James Cameron is insane (in a good way) I am so emotional watching the scene where the third class people are trapped behind the gates
Yeah, I don't believe that I could get through the last hour of this movie these days even though I loved it as a teenager.
May I ask why you think the romance was only eh? Was it because it was too quick and short etc?
@@andrealewis2501 It just wasn't that remarkable compared to most movie romances It was pretty basic. Not that it was bad in any way it just wasn't anything special for me.
@@claripossum2079 That's what I thought you meant, I always thought I had the opposite opinion. I thought it was a remarkable love story compared to the other movies I've seen, so I'm curious, which movies had the great romances in it for you? What made them special to you and why?
YES! The string quartet and the lead saying "Gentlemen, it's been a pleasure playing with you" is what broke me, too! Thank you, Jonathan!
That scene where Cal gives the necklace to Rose is so chilling becuase of his attitude. He totally invades Rose's personal space and literally puts a chain around her neck, like a dog or a property.
I don't think he was invading her space. They were engaged. He was trying to appeal to her and trying to have an open dialogue. He just didn't understand her behavior and it was troubling him. She was intimidated to speak up because it was not culturally easy to do so. What could be seen as manipulation could be a moment of him trying to communicate. She decided to not communicate, but see another man behind his back. She was being unfaithful and she broke his trust. We have no evidence that he was unfaithful. I think Jack is the better man, but Rose needed to end it. She just couldn't bring herself to do so. Jack helped her to stand up.
@@DrumDTLTE2 I think I understand where you're coming from, but the first two sentences of your comment trouble me. Historically, in that time and place, any physical contact between them, including the necklace placement, likely WOULD have been viewed as "they're engaged so consent is implied." However, where Camille seems to be coming from (if I am reading their post correctly) is a more modern understanding that engagement/marriage does not automatically equal consent. Not just with intimate physical activities, but also with things like this. I am neither engaged nor married, but I am a woman who has been dating the same man for two and a half years. I trust him, but if he just came up behind me out of the blue and put a necklace around my neck, I might feel slightly uncomfortable because a certain survival instinct might kick in and go "there is a person putting something around my neck without my permission this is dangerous." On the other hand, if he presented me with the necklace, I attempted to put it on but was having trouble with the clasp behind my neck, and then I held the necklace out to him and asked him to help me put it on, that's okay. I'm giving my consent to him putting it around my neck. This is an important difference.
As for the comparison to putting a collar on a dog, I think that might be going a little far, but then again this was probably an even more blatant statement piece than an engagement ring of "She's already spoken for, so any and all other men need to back off." In the sense that he is likely trying to visibly mark his territory, so to speak, I can understand the comparison, especially since he did not give her an opportunity to refuse to be visibly claimed by him in such a manner. If he had given her more of an opportunity to say "Keep the necklace; I've changed my mind about marrying you," without judgement or fear of retribution, it would have been better. Granted, this is not to excuse Rose cheating on him, but he doesn't view her as a person. He views her as a status symbol and likely as a womb to bear his future children, the extension of his/their "royal" lineage.
@@meridellwriter I think you're overthinking boundaries. In a public setting, sure. There were many rules on etiquette. However, Cal wasn't making any advances and he was trying to break down barriers. Frankly, with courting and marriages in Edwardian times, it was less about love and more about occupying land. So Cal's and Rose's relationship would have been universally accepted in the society. If Rose were alone with Cal and they were not courting, a chaperone would be needed. Many single women on Titanic had men acting as a chaperone or protector. Some single women had chaperones travel with them. Now, having said this, Cal was an egotistical manipulator using his power to intimidate Rose into behaving to his liking. Jack, on the other hand, was selfless, humble and respected and valued Rose. He was a true gentleman who wasn't looking to control or take advantage of her. Rose was stuck in the bondage of Edwardian structures that suppressed her personal choice for freedom. Jack showed that she could be liberated. They say the Titanic was the death of an era, and although the Great War is what really ended Edwardian society, the Titanic disaster was the beginning to that end.
I agree. He said knew she was melancholy and he didn’t understand why, AND showed no interest in discovering why. He roughly closed her music box. He shoved it aside. He invaded her private space. He treats her like a prostitute - you get lavish gifts IF you put out. He makes it completely clear exactly what the deal is. Rose is a beautiful thing that he will own and must fit HIS life, his wants, his schedule. He will never adjust to fit hers. I wouldn’t wish him on my worst enemy.
@@DrumDTLTE2 Cal is clearly invading invading Rose's space in that he didn't ask the permission to enter in her room, then proceed to shut of the music box and give her a lavish present. He doesn't let her speak at any moment in this scene. And, yes, a lot of women travelled with men as chaperone on the Titanic but, technically, Rose's chaperone is her mother and she souldn't stay alone with a man, even her fiancé, while wearing her nightgown. Clearly, marriage wasn't a matter of love a the time, I am fully aware of that, but respecting boundaries and letting your wife-to-be speak is the base of a healthy relationship.
Also, I don't think Cal really wants a dialogue with Rose because, as I said before, he never let her talk. He has his little speech, gives her a lavish present with the intent of sleeping with her or, at least, buy her affection, and then left. As @JoyfulCabbage said, he also didn't ask Rose permission before putting the necklace around her neck, which can be really uncomfortable if you didn't ask for it.
I'd also like to point out how during the most intense scenes, like the iceberg collision, the breaking, and the final sinking, all of those scenes they included loud clanking and creaking sounds that makes it almost like Titanic is screaming and roaring in pain. Really makes it feel like a living character than just a boat.
That was the intention, especially when paired with the music. It was a metaphor. It's also accurate as many passengers talked of these sounds and even tried interpreting what exactly they were hearing.
@@DrumDTLTE2 What was the metaphor of Kate Winslet's naked breasts in combination with that music? I think that made the character of Rose come alive to me.
The sounds actually happened in real life due to the bottom haul being damaged. Lucky for some the queen Mary was on a similar route and saw the tragedy unfold and went over to help the survivors.
THANK YOU FOR MENTIONING THE DOOR!!!!! Ever since i was a child i understood that they couldn’t make it work because of WEIGHT not ROOM. The movie clearly shows it and i have been dumbfounded about this pop culture Jack&Rose door conspiracy since i heard of it. I have felt so alone in voicing this to people until now, so seriously, thank you 😭😂
James Cameron did a documentary for NatGeo where they debunked the door theory once and for all. It was less about room and more about torso out of the water. But the important thing is that Jack had to sacrifice himself because that's what his character arc required. This story is about the ship, yes, but it's the photo montage of Rose's long and full life at the end that shows that Jack's role was catalyst, not permanent partner.
I think Rose being the sexual aggressor with jack also drives home that her refusal of Cal isn't a refusal of sex as a whole. She doesn't feel an aversion for the idea of sex and is actually quite active in it, when she's WILLING. Sex isn't the problem, Cal is.
The scene where Cal flips the table, Kate didn't know exactly what he was going to do, so her reaction is very real.
In real life the most exploitive people go on about unconditional love. Or they spent to much time in novels and movies
@@swimdownx6365 So true! My abusive ex was obsessed with unconditional love
That is actually terrifying to learn. That goes to show how emotionally exhausting a career acting must be - having to experience emotions and situations “just” for the sake of making a film. It stays in their bodies, their memories and muscle memory.
@@oda_margrethe I always wandered about that. How do they deal with those over the top emotions? I can see why many "method" actors are perceived as weird and difficult to work with, they apparently keep bringing these reactions to surface to be more real.
@@AllUserNamesAreUsed Whatever an abusive person says is "unconditional love" is not in fact actual unconditional love.
Unconditional love does NOT mean you put up with abuse (after all it should include caring about yourself too). It all depends on your definition of the term. An abusive relationship is not real love, so your ex was spewing bullshit about "unconditional love"
Titanic does a good job showing what true unconditional love is, with the character Jack and how he loves Rose.
I first saw this movie when I was about 8. My parents really wanted me to be able to see it, so they bought the 2-VHS boxed set for us to watch at home (that way they could edit out the more amorous scenes for my young eyes). We get to the scene where Rose snatches Jack’s sketch book and suggests that he had a love affair with one of his drawing subjects. He says he didn’t - that she was a “one-legged prostitute.” I turned around from my blanket on the living room floor and innocently asked my mom in her recliner, “What’s a prostitute?” She replied very simply and at an age-appropriate level, “It’s someone who sells their body for money.” So I very logically deduced that this poor woman had sold her leg! I learned otherwise when I was about…oh…13.
amazing XD
Hahaha, that's adorable. The innocence of children. 😊
Makes sense lol😂😂😂
This is awesome logic, lol!
that's hilarious and wholesome at the same time
On the "door", James Cameron has said himself that it was not buoyant enough for both of them. If they had both managed to get on it, it would have sunk just enough for them to both still be in the water. Jack would have NEVER asked to rotate with Rose, he sacrificed himself for her. Which was the point. I wish more people understood that.
The romance is really good in Titanic (and yes, Jack is a great role model of healthy masculinity), but damn the back half of the movie where the ship is sinking is devastating to watch. Fully agree it's because you can imagine those people in those situations. I think about all of the people, like the band and the officers, who were trying to do their duty and help the passengers knowing full well they themselves likely would not survive. It's both heartbreaking and inspiring. It's a big reason why I'm pretty offended by the idea of them making a Titanic recreation ship. A _ton_ of people lost their lives and you're about to treat it like a vacation destination? Pass.
If that’s true then everyone take notes, I’m just a Jack looking for my Rose.
A recreated Titanic ship? As, can sail in ocean waters type? Or a theme park ride?
@@vilyar122 Supposedly like an immersive experience (minus the sinking) cruise ship. "Titanic 2", and people are encouraged to dress in period attire, as I recall?
It's true. I think that the latter half of the film is where it becomes a masterpiece. Cameron wanted to make a movie to satisfy his own cravings for exploring the sunken wreckage of the ship, but you can tell he was very respectful of the humanitarian crisis that unfolded while "This sick @$$ chonky @$$ boat sank"
I always waited for sinking ship part when I was a kid . That was my favorite part .
Me: *in the verge of tears watching the sinking scenes*
Jonathan: “I’m going to address the controversy of the door”
Me: *chokes on them tears while laughing*
It’s not about size, it’s about buoyancy!
@@tattycakes2k2 That's what I always offer. At best, the door would have floated just under the surface, and they both would have frozen.
The funny thing is, I think if Cameron would have portrayed them trying to get on the door at least a second time, people would have never made it an issue.
"It tells a simple story, which is not a bad thing". This is so important. Elitism in the arts has been around forever, and is giving no indication of dying out any time soon. So many people think that in order for media to be good it has to have an extreme amount of depth and metaphors, and I used to think that way. Watching _Dead Poets Society_ and seeing the scene where Robin Williams' character has the students pull the pretentious graph of what makes poetry good out of their books stuck with me, and is still a belief I hold today: the most important thing a book, movie, or painting can do is make us feel something, and while filming technique and good writing can contribute to that it's not a necessity for a story to be great. As long as it is entertaining and truly makes the audience feel something, whether happy or sad, it shouldn't be discredited as shallow or simple.
Dead poet's Society is a great film!
Jack and Rose's relationship really is so underrated when it comes to great cinematic couples. They both give each other exactly what the other needs but at the same time they give each other agency and the right to choose what they want.
Especially on the part of Jack. He loves Rose but he also makes it a point that it's her that has to make her own choice despite what he hopes that she does.
And either way, he'll respect and accept it. That's real love.
Yeah, that famous romance is a monster hit movie that people still discuss sure is underrated.
I was 14 when this movie came out. I had just started seriously pursuing art a couple years before after my dad had put the idea in my head to be an artist for my career (I'd always been considered "gifted" in art from the time I could hold a pencil, basically), and I was ENAMORED with the scene of Jack drawing Rose since we actually saw the picture being drawn. I even paused the VHS and tried to draw her for myself a few times. I watched that part of the movie _over and over and over and OVER again,_ thinking "Man, I want to be able to draw like that someday!" 😩
I ended up going to art school for college and became an illustrator and colorist for a living. A few years ago I was talking to a friend about _that scene_ and my personal history with it, and on a whim I decided to try drawing Rose again from a screen cap on my computer just to see what would happen.
I reached that personal "someday". 😊
To say I got an overload of serotonin from that realization would be an understatement.
Yeay well done 👏
Aaawww congratulations!
There are few things in life that I envy. The ability to draw accurately is one of them. Well done!
Congrats! 👏🏻👏🏻💯
Wasn't it James Cameron who actually did the drawing? I think I read that somewhere, and Leo was behind him drawing stick figures or something 😅
That's pretty awesome though 😊
The scene where we first see the Heart of the Ocean, not only is it framed beautifully, but the way it’s lit and color corrected gives the whole room that amber glow so that the only blue thing in the WORLD is that gem and you can’t not look at it.
Her hair, skin, and eyes are so beautiful and glowy in that scene too
excellent observation! and I love that it is framed within the mirror, presenting them like a portrait of loveless, stiff aristocrats.
That's a really interesting video but you guys missed an important aspect of Cal's behaviour. Rose is trying to relax and calm herself with her music box which is probably one of her favourite things in the entire world and he just turns it aside, dismissing it so he can talk about him and how he feels.
That moment where Cal tosses the table communicates so much! She is terrified and then has to go back to being proper even when she’s scared. That’s what makes the understanding of the maid so impactful. She shows that she understands and offers comfort. The maid sees how trapped Rose is and all she can do is her job and offering comfort while still following the decorum of her station. Great scene! So saddening too because there are people in real relationships like that.
Cal did that cause he had enough of her rebellious behavior. she should be terrified and did the right thing going back to being proper. the maid should have minded her own business and realize that rose started it by being rebellious in the first place.
Rose was as helpless as I was living in mental hospital in my teens I was in the best place in the world >I was never abused there but they didnt know how to help me and I was shamed a lot and lived a restricted life I was diagnosed at age 40 with autism send it was like being forgiven .Rose had to put on false self to get her needs met and just get space to just be .Jack gave sacrificially but Cal was narcissist She knew he’d treat her like property .Probably treat inanimate objects better than her .I think shed have been a battered wife had she not escaped
@@travisboutilier2220try not to cut yourself on all that edge, kiddo. 😂
@@cl5470 I am not cutting myself and i am not a kid.
@@cl5470 Dude, he’s a troll. He belongs under a bridge. He’s stalking this comment section a year later just trying to start shit. He admits freely he has never been in a romantic relationship and I believe him and I hope to high heaven he never gets in one because if he truly believes the shit he is spouting then whatever unfortunate woman he gets with will end up slipping something into his Tennessee Whiskey no law man is ever gonna find, to quote Carrie Underwood. I do believe he is just a troll though and should therefore be left alone to suffer in silence while the rest of us enjoy our lives.
The unsinkable molly brown is, and always has been, my favorite character. Historically, she was a one women riot, and in the movie, they give her that
Her house in Denver, CO is on a historic registry. If anyone is able, it’s worth the visit just to see how larger than life she really was.
She was and still is an absolute icon and inspiration
@@princessjesstarca It is definitely worth the visit for Denverites and out of towners alike!
@@princessjesstarca I was there in August. I've also met her great granddaughter at the annual Titanic conference in Tennessee.
I love that in the movie, she's basically Jack's fairy godmother lol. I agree, she's great both the real Molly and her cinematic version.
Taking a side note off the usual psychology topics to talk about the amazing cinematography that goes on to characterise the WATER of all things.
Once the ship starts sinking, there are only two ways the water are shown: rampaging destruction that rips doors apart and devastates anything in its path; or a slow uncompromising oozing that projects inevitability. The water is malevolent yet aggressive, violent yet patient - and it is done entirely through camera work.
I had therapist analyzing movies like AI on why love should be conditional
That's a fantastic insight. I never would have interpretated the water as having a character of its own!
“Everyone’s talking about me; no one is talking about the WATER!” -the iceberg as played by Bowen Yang
How else could you show the freaking Titanic disaster which also needs to sit for some time? Like clearly the disaster can't be shown instantly, because that would not be enjoyable. Even on accident the water would have looked like that i think
@@havewissmart9602 true, but the way they did it was fantastic. They could’ve made it a relatively background event and solely focused on Jack and Rose. But they didn’t. They showed moments where the water was rushing like a tsunami, bursting through doors, and flooding an area in seconds, but they also showed moments where there was an eerie slow down of the pace. A great example was the moment where Rose gets the ax to free Jack. She has to traverse through water over her head, and all the noise and action comes to a grinding halt. It’s dark, save for the flickering lights as they go out, and silent except for the groaning of the ship.
As a kid I didn't understand why Mr Andrew's decided to go down with the ship when he most likely could've gotten out but I get it now. Imagine having to live with the guilt knowing you are partly responsible for thousands of people dying a horrible death. Children too. I'm sure those who did get out who had a part in the disaster drunk themselves into an early grave. I can't imagine them having a guilt free happy life after this
That's why Captain Smith went down with the ship as well, in addition to that Bruce Ismay should've as well. Hence, the right depiction of him as a coward.
Agreed. They accepted their fates for a reason. Although according to some accounts, Captain Smith and Mr. Andrews did fight for their lives at the end, as most did. People have said that they saw them jump off of the bridge together and that Smith was seen swimming and clinging to rubble. Which is completely understandable and valid. I'm just making the point that it was both. Going down with the ship if necessary but trying to make it too.
Regarding the sexual dynamics between the two: I think we also have to consider the class difference when we think about how Rose is more confident at going for Jack sexually. Jack knows his place in society and he knows exactly that if he approached Rose sexually, and she for example turned on him, he might go to prison in the split of a second. In fact he didn´t even have to do anything, they could´ve used blaming him for sexual misconduct just to get rid of him, as they have tried to do when framing him for stealing the necklace. He knows how they´re playing and probably didn´t want to risk anything to add on to that. So yes, Jack´s masculinity is healthy and I also love that Rose is so upfront about her sexuality with him, but we also have to consider that Jack´s probably super cautious because of the class divide.
😅
Bonus fact: Among the death toll and survivors of the Titanic were some dogs as well. Apparently someone let them loose and there were loose dogs adding to the chaos as the ship sank. The 3 surviving doggos were the little lapdogs some of the uppercrust ladies smuggled out under their jackets. We don't really see that part but we do briefly see a dog walker taking them out for a little promenade early in the movie which is what lead me to get curious and learn about it.
Never forget to include your pets in emergency preparedness plans!
there was a rooster on board who allegedly worked as like an alarm clock for lower class passengers. As well as the tradition of keeping a cat on board to control rats and mice, I've heard stories of Titanics cat jumping ship in France, as if it sensed coming doom, though there are also stories of this cat during the voyage, so who knows.
The museum out here in Branson had an exhibit for awhile paying tribute to the dogs who had been on the ship, telling their names and stories. At that time there were two adorable Cavaliers that everyone could meet and visit with.
There’s a deleted scene on the Titanic special edition DVD that shows the dogs running the decks during the sinking.
If I remeber correctly, in the scene were Cal feins to care along with Jack to convince Rose on the life boat. Before she decides to jump back onboard, Rose is looking at the other lifeboat passengers briefly before locking eyes with Jack. There is one upper class lady wispering into her jacket and a small little doggo kisses her back.
mann the emergency boats were not even enough for the people let alone the dogs, in an unexpected chaos like this the first and most important step in all the panic is getting all the children, women and elderly, well people, off the ship. as mush as I love animals, human lives are still the priority, especially with not enough equipment.
"If you being happy means you're not with me, then I want that for you because I want you to be happy" That line stood out in my mind. What my mom realized would make me happy, is not interacting with me. My mom cared enough about me, to not bother me.
I straight up stole that quote for a character of mine.
I feel like for this role Leo and Kate’s genuine friendship and love for one another that bloomed on this set helped ALOT sell the deep connection between Jack and Rose.
Eveytime they look into eachother eyes you believes that they just are MADE FOR EACHOTEHR 😭😭😭
I never thought of it as a love triangle because I never felt Rose was in love with Cal.
They had to use fictional people because not enough was known about real people’s day to day lives and even if it was, would it be enough to “fill” all those days at sea.
My grandmother was born two months after the Titanic sank and I've always marveled at just _how much_ she saw in her life from then until she passed away in 2005.
Wow my grandma was born in 1925 and I always marvel too how much she saw in in her life . She remembered the Great Depression and the beginning of World War Two . My other grandma was born in Germany and remembered being bombed . It’s crazy how much a person can remember about their life that’s so historic to others .
My great grandma who I have met was born in 1911. I only remember that because of the titanic. She lived to be 102 and 10months.
Oh wow, same here! My grandmother on one side was born in 1908. I always used to think she was just a kid when the Titanic sank, but I wonder if she saw it in the news, and what she thought of it. It really is amazing to be able to interact with family members who have seen so much of the history we read about in books, in their very own lives.
Our times are historic too, we just don't look at it that way. It's easier to see "so much things experienced" when looking back at the hundred years of life. Most likely, our grandchildren will say something like that about us. At least, I now remember being bombed (and hope not the start of World War III...)
Now we’ll be those grandparents telling stories of where we were on 9/11 & the sheer terror of the uncertainty we all felt.
I've had suicidal thoughts before and I can say that they're right about how being reminded of how much you have to live for is annoying. What we need to be reminded of is how much people love us and yes, maybe the pain we're going to go through by doing it. What kept me from putting the knife through my chest was the fact that, despite my abusive step-mom clearly not loving me enough to not put me through a waking nightmare of an experience, my Dad, sister, and especially my Grandmother have shown that they cared about me.
Yep. I was actively and horribly suicidal ever since I hit puberty, but the thing that finally clicked in my head (along with effective mood stabilizer meds) was my then-boyfriend simply telling me he would miss me a lot. No "don't be selfish," no "you have so much to live for," "you're still young," or "everyone loves you," just him telling me what he was feeling without speaking for everyone in my life. Because how would he be so certain what anyone else would think? He's not them. And they aren't anyone else. All I could be certain of when I was depressed was that my boyfriend had no answers or pleas, just the point of view that he would be really sad and would miss me a lot.
It felt like someone was finally showing they cared and not that they were trying to convince me that they knew what was best for me. It finally clicked in my head. We're still friends even though we're not together anymore, but I now believe people when they say they'll miss me, so when I'm sad, I ask them. My fiancé, my mom, my step-dad, they all just tell me they'll miss me and I feel better. Not great, just less suicide-y.
Proper wording matters.
And so do the proper medications. Thank gods for Lamictal.
I've been there too; badly enough to be committed--twice. I agree generic lines like that don't work; they don't try to understand WHY someone is so miserable in the first place. I love how Jack treated Rose in that scene--not just tell her over and over again not to do it. Instead, he started mentioning how much it would all hurt, maybe trying to help Rose consider if enduring that pain is worth it; and in turn, is it what she really wants to do? Because people who want to end their lives especially at Rose's age (she was only 17) generally don't really want to die, they want to stop being miserable.
For me, what helped was reminding myself of my younger brother. He has Asperger’s and ive always been his “person”. On the really bad days, i would just stop whatever i was doing, close my eyes, and think about what would happen to him? What would he think? As i got older i found other coping techniques, but when i was young, thats all i needed to know
@@celianunn2070 I have Asperger's too and I just gotta say, it is really hard for us to loose anyone who is already an important person in our lives because true connection with people rarely happens. Keep fighting the good fight and remember that your brother needs you
I grew up near Chippewa falls in Wisconsin. Depending on how you are dressed just Ice fishing in the winter can feel like a thousand knives, much less touching the water. As people from Wisconsin watched this, it wasn't just simple dialog. It was how we talked and how we lived. It was relatable.
That line “like a thousand knives all over your body”, was actually taken from Officer Lightholler’s testimony.
Is the character of Jackson Dawson seen as a thing of some pride in Chippewa falls? lol
I'm a Minnesotan, so this is pretty relatable for us too lol.
I love you guys but HOW could you miss something huge in one of the scenes you showed: at about 15:45 when Cal attempts to control Rose with the lavious gift of the heart of the ocean - He shuts down her music box, changing everything about her mood/environment. Its careless disregard for her own heart - the music stops so abruptly, and he pushes the music box aside to sit between her and her mirror. That to me was so aggressive and represents exactly how her life will be if she does marry him. For me as a sensitive woman that was hugely symbolic.
Yes! I caught that too.
Fun Fact: Paul Rudd convinced Leo to take the role of Jack after they discussed the script in a car drive on the way to the set for Baz Lurhmann’s Romeo & Juliet that they were both in, as Paul Rudd’s Father was a English Professor who was obsessed with the Titanic & it’s history and Leo told Paul that he wasn’t sure that he was interested in the role at all, so thank you to Paul Rudd 🙏
I love that Jack&Rose are essentially a Romeo&Juliet theme that the English professor's son convinces the actor, then playing Romeo, to play🤣🤣
*edit: and didn't Paul Rudd play one of Romeo's friends?(or am I just loving the full circle-ness too much, lol)
He played Paris, who was Romeos love rival for Juliet ( they were engaged to be engaged in the novel)
My mom knows Paul Rudd’s dad. My brother was obsessed with the titanic also and my mom took him on trips with the Titanic Historical Society.
Paul Rudd should have campaigned for the role himself.
He probably thought he wasn’t well known enough & wouldn’t of been cast for a big budget film plus I think he was over hearing about the Titanic since childhood & didn’t want to encourage his dad lol
It's funny, because I've seen people get so upset when people won't marry over politics or religion, and it's like, you can have some severely different core values in those areas. For some reason, some couples think that will go away after marriage.
I wouldn't have thought so prior to 2016, but I now consider politics to be a core value. I could not imagine a serious relationship with someone on the opposite end of the political spectrum.
Can attest to this. Not me personally, but for all their commonalities in other areas, my parents were split between conservative and progressive politics, and it wasn't just competing lawn signs during elections. It took divorce (plus a few years to recover) to get to the point where family get-togethers could automatically include both and be enjoyed.
Yes! My husband's parents went through a divorce over "religion" (it was actuall emotional and financial abuse but whatever) and all of his 5 siblings have told me mutliple times that they will never let religion "stop or break up a relationship". They got that drilled into them by their abusive father.
Unsurprisingly, many of them have not picked great partners in terms of core capability, one of the partners are downright abusive and one of the siblings is already verbally and physically abusive to his children (though not enough that we can call CPS and intervene, just childish, demeaning stuff like tripping the kid deliberately and then laughing when he cries). Fortunately, my husband and I escaped that but only because my husband refuses to interact with his father and ignored him about the importance of core values like religion (his father threatened to not attend if my husband married in his chosen religion and did walk out part way through the reception, atheists can be just as awful in forcing their viewpoints as anyone else).
@@Asharra12 It's good your husband made a better decision, and it is sadly true that there are people from all sides who feel they need to force their ways on others. I'm not religious but I don't like to say I'm atheist either, I like to be more open-minded. So yes politics and religion are big things people feel very strongly about, and it's those strong feelings that mean it's not on the same level as small differences like what movies you like or something.
Those are valid reasons in a relationship. I'm not going to marry someone that believes it's okay to murder a child in the womb or accepts all kinds of perverted things. People are going to do what they do outside my house but I ain't having it in my house.
The musicians playing at the end to calm people actually did happen as well. They played even in waist deep water and sunk with the ship. They found the violin pretty recently too. In the past few years I think. It’s so heart wrenching to think that someone cared enough to keep playing music to literally their last breath
I believe it wasn't so much that they cared so much for their job, or other concern for calming passengers. It's just after they finished the song. They saw the stark reality that they were not going to get onto a lifeboat and thus not going to survive. Death was imminent and inescapable, so why not spend the last moments of your life doing what you love -- playing music. It was both poignant and beautiful.
For me that's not even a love triangle. It's just a poor woman trying to escape from a cage who happened to meet a guy who shared the feeling and inspired her to fight for herself. 'Make it count.'
It is to me. rose is not in a cage and met a guy that encourages her to rebel against her first class lifestyle.
The necklace scene is interesting to me because it's Cal at one of his "nicest" moments, and yet it was always so off to me. It's him essentially thinking, "I can tell you aren't into me, so I have to buy your love to keep you." He knows that the reason Rose is with him is because of her family's financial situation. He's essentially attempting to use that to corner her, or at least remind her why she's with him. It's just so greasy. I never read the "if you won't deny me" part as about sex alone. I saw it more as, "if you do as I say," which would also include sex.
I love this analysis of the movie. Jack has always been one of my favorite fictional characters. My only problem with him is that men in real life are rarely like Jack, which makes him feel almost cartoonish. It's refreshing to see a couple of guys acknowledge that he is an example of positive masculinity, and not make fun of the character for it.
Huh, I always thought Ruth's lack of money was a secret that Cal was unaware of.
Can confirm I've never met anyone like Jack.
I’ve met TONS of men like jack. You girls don’t notice bc they don’t look like Leo 😂😂
@@chucksolutions4579 Great point! It's been my experience that good-looking men are assholes.
I think that jack is a "perfect man" because it was rose's reselling, and to her, that's how jack was
One of the most striking lines Jack delivers to Rose comes as they are flipping through his sketchbook while walking together on deck. Rose initially is prepared to mock Jack for carrying it around, but then she stops as she starts to notice how gifted of an artist he is. He provides a backstory to each drawing and it is there that she then acknowledges his talent by stating he has a gift, that he SEES people. He responds by stating that he SEES her and that she wouldn't have jumped. How easy is it for us to critique and criticize one another without realizing that "the average piece of junk (another person puts out) is worth so much more than our criticism designating it so." How much better off would we be, collectively if we could actually SEE one another? Loved this analysis of such a masterpiece in cinema!
Wow! Really astute insight. I hadn't caught that bit of foreshadowing.
A) I respect these insights entirely, and B) I respect that quote from Anton Ego
27:49 Fun Fact: That old couple is supposed to be the owners of Macy's. The wife had the option to leave on a life boat but decided to stay with her husband as the titanic sank
22:03 I have to say the way Rose reacts here to the table-flip is 1000% accurate, and absolutely the way she responds too by immediately apologising to others around and cleaning up the mess and trying to fix it. Not even anger is showing up just fear and a sort of internal submission, internalised blame, that happens in abusive relationships. This was the way my mom would react when my dad would have a meltdown, he was fond of breaking things, throwing things, smashing things. And so many times I remember she came to us, crying, and we literally had to comfort her while she explained how it was her fault and she was so dumb and she made all these problems. The acting is phenomenal here.
Cameron knew he had made the right gamble when he got to meet Kate and found out she is English and not American as he was looking for in actress to play Rose. He saw her talents and commitment and he loved it.
Even though Cal only put the little girl on the lifeboat to save himself, he likely saved her in the process. She was hiding in a corner, possibly separated from her parents, and would have died if not for Cal.
True, but I love how Cameron made sure to show him not caring at first and just leaving her there, until he gets the idea to use her. He could have had Cal see her and instantly get the idea and take her, which could have been mistakable for him having some empathy right away and that playing into why he takes her. But this way, we KNOW he's JUST doing it for selfish reasons and would have totally left her there if he didn't get the idea to use her. True to form, Cameron knew the most effective way to show this, and it took more screentime than the other way would have taken, meaning he probably had to fight for it in the edit.
For sure, but it's a perfect example of how people like Cal make decisions that are incidental for others yet are often life changing to them. I kind of see it the same way people with power/money make sure they are seen donating to causes. It's still a power grab move.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day, eh? 😄
Yeah but what do you think he did with her afterwards? Abandoned her on the streets.
Cal is like 90% of the 1% today.
I was about 8 when this movie came out, and of course was enamoured with Leonardo DiCaprio.
However, watching it again as an adult and as a woman who has been in abusive relationships, Kate Winslet's scene with Cal when he swipes the stuff of the table and she breaks down... that scene is ridiculously accurate. It truly is heart-wrenching.
Hope you are ok now
Same here! I feel the same
Same! 😭 I watched Titanic after I was assaulted. That scene triggered me for months. It’s been 11 years and I still can’t watch Titanic without skipping Cal’s scene.
Same.. As a child I never really cared for it but now as an adult I fully understand the gut wrenching feeling and awfulness of that scene. Makes me whince everytime
I was wondering if one could explain what Alan was mentioning about Kate's acting in the movie ... and that it wasn't always there?
The part where you super imposed your face over Rose's was so unexpected and hilarious that I choked on my food. You guys are lovely and I love watching cinema therapy
I think the fictional characters work here cause you get so so invested in their love story and then you really get the rip of pain when Jack dies you get a small glimpse into how devastating the sinking of the ship was for so many people
The sinking of the ship was already devastating though, as Alan perfectly said. For it was a character in the movie too, which Cameron did brilliantly.
I saw an analysis that I really liked about Jack, the door, and why he had to die.
Jack was never meant to live. That wasn't his role.
As you said, Jack was there to make sure Rose was okay. He acted as the facilitator of Rose's freedom. He showed her how life could be. He gave her permission to step away from the life she was born into that imprisoned her. He showed her what selfless love looked like.
Once he played his part and made sure she was okay one last time, he was gone. And Rose was able to move forward confidently through life on her own terms.
I think I saw the same analysis 😅-Jack as “Manic Pixie Dream Guy.”
The take
th-cam.com/video/A4FvI1r3rIg/w-d-xo.html
@@abbyabroad i love that
Like Maude in Harold and Maude.
I disagree that Cal "loved" Rose. He is trophy hunting and she is the trophy. He is used to always getting his way and sex is just another way of dominating her. You can see his true priorities when he realizes that Rose has his coat with the necklace in it.
Paraphrasing the book Coraline:
She knew the other mother did love her, in the same way a miser loves money or a dragon loves gold. The other mother loved Coraline as a property, a pet whose behavior was no longer amusing
I think its interesting how Cal says "we" are royalty instead of "you" because it shows how he values their relationship over her happiness
I have a friend who on a first date with a man got onto conversation as to what films that they enjoy and she said Titanic is one of her favourites. To which he replied that Cal is unfairly villainised and Rose is the villain for wanting to be with Jack who he saw as an idiot. So she refused to see him again seeing the attitude as a red flag. She asked me if she was overreacting but I said she made the right decision as I also see it as a warning sign about him.
@RegencyLady1797 Both you and your female friend are right. I can admit that as a male. There was no overreacting from your side.
I had the same issue with these two History teachers of mine in the past in 11-12th grade. Who, in this one instance when the movie came up in a discussion, couldn't stop moaning about how awful Titanic (1997) was as a movie. Take as example, calling the film a chick-flick, or calling Jack giving up his life for Rose while they were in the water as lame. Concerning, Jack was the fittest and strongest of the two ... and it would seem a totally illogical and a dumb thing to do as a consequence. Reviewing the movie as totally overrated, and then, one teacher going as far as calling it a crap movie.
I'm not sure what it was, by I remember *not* liking their sense of arrogance, self-entitlement and the need to be so disrespectful about the movie and other people's feelings in the room. Concerning that we were with about 60 students (Of which 50-60% was at least female) in this lecture hall. Yes, I have my own reservations about Titanic too, including some minor criticism here and there, but I wouldn't end up in front of a class of 60 students call the movie crap etc. and start going on these rants to explain why. Especially, not one that has earned +$2 Billion at the box office and won 11 Oscars.
But most importantly, keeping the female audience in the lecture hall in mind. Knowing that Titanic was and still is held in high regards with women. Due to the fact that Rose was of course the ultimate female heroine by the film's ending. You know, that Titanic had a lot of meaning and content. And it was unfortunate the two history teachers were willing to overlook that and start crapping on a fictional couple and characters etc. Nonetheless, I knew there were many students who didn't like the two teachers ... so it figures.
You know, not the kind of people I want as family members or to have as friends. Simply, for displaying the inability to respect other people's feelings and be more open-minded and free-spirited. And these two teachers remind me of Cal in away, and thus, I can relate to your female friend and agree she made the right decision. You know, you don't want these kind of arrogant pricks in your life. Ever.
I mean, he might not have seen the film very often and not thought about it as deeply as your friend had. It's not really the sort of film men tend to watch again and again.
@@bigmofarah9084 I see it more as an indication that men who advocate for Cal are unequipped to acknowledging what women want in a relationship. All in all if I were to be on a date with a man who thought Jack and Cal were on the same wavelength of attitude I'd run for the hills.
He was right.
@Pat Nor Oh hush Pat go back to your wife and kids 🤣
The scene where Cal throws the table wasn't scripted, Billy Zane just did it and it legitimately scared the shit out of Kate, which is probably why her reaction seems so genuine.
Another fun fact about this movie is that when the Titanic strikes the Iceberg to the time she sinks, is time accurate to the actual sinking of the ship. Which is partly why the movies runtime is so long.
I met Billy at a con...and he was the biggest tool. He seemed pissed that he wasn't in one of the big atrium rooms that are usually held for A list celebrities like David Faustino (aka bud bundy) and some girl from the reality show that had flava flave and sly stalones ex girlfriend...and he had breakfast the next morning at the bistro inside the Hilton...he was in the table smack dab the middle of the room....side profile to the hallway. Totally not trying to garner attention.
@@kristinak6092 Really? That's unfortunate, I heard that he was pretty nice during meets and whatnot, but I guess I heard wrong lol
@@roguezown No could just have been him having a bad day or him being idk human 🤷🏽♀️. He's not perfect none of us are don't change your opinion based on a random online comment that's just sad
@@tiffanykim2773 I mean, I hadn't planned on changing my whole opinion on him as a person, I was just commenting that it's unfortunate that I might have been misinformed about how he is with fans. Objectively I know that he's human and we all have bad days. I guess what I'm saying is that if I ever meet him I hope he's having a good day that day
Another really interesting moment is when Jack is about to draw Rose and he accidentally says "bed" instead of "couch", showing us how nervous he was & what may have been on his mind at the time, considering they're attracted to each other....that was unscripted! Leo actually messed up the line and the fact that he made that specific mistake just fit SO perfectly with that moment that they kept it in! 😂
The "two people can't fit on a door" is based off the incredible survival story of a Chinese gentleman, Fang Lang. He was (I believe, the last) person to be found alive of those who weren't in lifeboats. More than 2 hrs after the sinking, the only lifeboat that returned to the sinking location, found him balancing on a thick wooden door (or possibly a desk), enabling him to remain out of the water, save for his feet & hands. He was helped aboard & even managed to row the boat around to look for more survivors. Unfortunately, due to the racism at the time, when they arrived in NY, he and the 5 other Chinese survivors were vilified & ostracised. People said they "dressed up like women" and "hid under seats" just to get on the lifeboats. Neither was true. He did end up living to 90 & died in his adopted country of the US after migrating there decades earlier, when Chinese hostilities had calmed down.
Wow. Thank you for sharing that.
Man, I could never get over the ending of the movie once I got older: Old Rose' last thoughts, before passing, was of a man she met and had a fling with for a couple of days 70 years before.
No thoughts of her husband whom she had children, built a family with, and stood by her side for decades. That's one of the biggest cases of alpha widowing ever to grace cinema.
When my aunt was dying, she spoke about her first love, not her husband of 50 years. They were engaged but he broke it off because his family didn't approve. I guess he was the true love of her life. It was sad.
It’s more realistic than you realise. My older sister had met a young man who’d just moved to our town and they really got along. He soon ended up dying in a workplace accident (poor guy was crushed to death). My sister eventually got into a relationship and had two kids, but we all know that she’s always going to be in love with the man who’d died.
An important line is when Rose talks about how Jack saved her, in every way a person can be saved. Maybe her eventual husband was the love of her life (I really don't think she'd marry someone she didn't truly love at that point,) but Jack was absolutely, undoubtedly the most important and most influential person she ever knew-yes, even more so than the man she married. There's no way she even would have lived anything close to the life she eventually had, without having had that brief, flash-in-the-pan relationship with him. I don't think we can really judge someone for their final thoughts before death. A healthy, loving marriage is pretty open and shut. It's a complete story. Jack has left Rose wondering "what if" for the majority of her life. I don't think that's a bad, or immoral thing. It's very human.
My grandmothers greatest love was her first husband. He died on Dday at Normandy. When she was dying that's who she was thinking about.
She did tell my grandfather that she would love him, but she would never love him like she loved her first husband. He accepted and respected that.
This might be playing devils advocate a little but are they just thinking about that first love or other person because it would have represented another life that they could have had? That person represents that WHAT IF scenario. Humans seem to always want what they cannot have or want more instead of appreciating what they have, they think if I had only done … this would have happened or I could been … I could have had … .If those first relationships had actually took place and ended would those people still be thinking of them or would there be another what if to think of?
I talked a friend off the ledge. Literally. He called me from the top of a tall building getting ready to jump and he said he called so many people and I was the only one who picked up. The fact that I promised I'd always answer if he called and actually did so, it helped calm him down enough for me to talk him back.
One thing I always found brilliant about the scene when Cal gives Rose the necklace is how at the end of the scene, she doesn't go back to holding the giant blue diamond like she's in awe of it. She touches the string of smaller diamonds it's hanging from, like she can feel a chain tightening around her neck.
In a deleted scene rose discusses just that
24:32 "He's being direct, giving her all her options, and NOT taking her agency away."
The exact opposite of Twilight !!!
I never actually read that scene between Cal and Rose as one about sex. I always thought Cal could sense that Rose had reservations about marrying him and it was more about their relationship in general.
as an adult watching this man rose was so pretty, she was also an amazing actor.
The table flipping scene always gets me. I experienced similar incidents where an abusive person (two different step fathers in my case) would do something to terrify me, and I would manage to remain calm in the moment only to completely break down and have a panic attack as soon as it was safe to do so.
I actually had to watch that table flipping scene while sitting next to my second abusive step father in the movie theater. Not only was I triggered by the scene itself, but the terror of it was ten times worse because I could not show any reaction to the behavior of the man on screen without my stepfather realizing exactly why I was freaking out. I had to sit, pretending to be completely calm, for the rest of the movie and the ride home so my stepfather wouldn't find out something was up and fly into a rage.
Man I know how rough that must have been for you, cuz I know how I've felt in similar situations. You can never let them see you sweat, as the saying goes. Self-preservation instincts are vital, but excruciating sometimes; a lot of the time actually. Strength is a virtue that feels like a curse.
@@rebeccarankin9455 I am sorry you've experienced anything similar, but thank you for your words of understanding.
I've experienced something similar too and it also had to do with a stepfather. I remember an incident where he reacted so angrily at something I said: he looked at me with so much hatred and kicked the chair where I was sitting. When he left I just broke down crying. It's an awful situation; I feel you and I'm so sorry that you also had to relive it in a public place.
@@spidervenomkilljoy That sounds so scary and I am sorry you had to go through it.
Talk about walking through a minefield or "walking on eggshells" and they can light switch from calm and friendly to terrifying in a split second. Lived it. No wonder nobody believes us when and if we try to tell; they only saw the charming side, the completely fake side, and not the monster underneath. My gut twists in empathy for your situation watching the film. I do understand having to bury anything one is thinking or feeling so the perp never ever gets wind of it. I hear you. I've had those x-ray eyes turned on me, just looking for the least little hint. I've lived that too. Finding a safe place to break down isn't always easy either. Power to you hon.
Female perspective: Rose is possibly the sexual aggressor with Jack because she wants her first time to be with someone who respects her, not demands it; possibly to secretly spite Cal and her mother and society if she does end up stuck with Cal; possibly “reward” for Jack’s respect. Or simply the true expression of how she feels, and the freedom you speak of
That’s what I’d say too
@Gi Gi Male perspective: Jack never had sex before, and until Rose, only had interest in women from an artist's perspective and artistic p.o.v., like his drawings were showing, including with their hands etc.; this is why Jack is visibly seen trembling after he and Rose had sex, including, because, of experiencing a female orgasm for the first time (Rose making a handprint in the veil of condensation on the car's window).
This is also why Jack *never* showed any initial sexual interest in Rose to begin with, because, he was looking at her like this gorgeous statue, such as David. Rather than looking at her as some sort of eye-candy and looking for her sexual prowess and capacity. You know, in the scene when Rose takes off her Kimono in front of Jack to have her portrait made, there is a reason Jack appears spooked and taken aback for a bit first.
This is indicative, from a male perspective, that Jack didn't care about Rose for her curves ... and doing what he did purely to get laid etc. This is interesting, because, it was showing a deeper connection that was very important to the telling and selling of the lovestory, including that Rose and Jack were seeing and treating each other as equals and with respect.
She really loves the allurement of breaking the status quo being in Love and having sex with a low poor stray that respects and sees her as a Person instead of Property like Cal.
Doesn't matter if Jack was a piece of shit. He's a chad.
1912: Don’t try me little girl
I LOVE Kathy Bates, I love her in American Horror Story as well as movies. Cal is Love Bombing Rose with gifts such as the necklace. He gaslights her A LOT. Also the guys playing the violins at the end really struck an emotional nerve with me, like I couldn't stop tearing up.
I don't really like her. Cal was not gaslighting her.
I LOVE how your videos are devoid of toxic masculinity and how you are strong enough in your self-esteem to not feel the need to say "no homo" after a bromance moment. More men should be like you!
I don’t know about that. Did you see the add in the middle and how they behaved in it? They were also promoting for the Myers-Briggs personality test which is unscientific in the add.
Jack and Rose may have been based on Kate Florence Phillips and Henry Morely, her manager. She eloped with henry on Titanic despite him being married and he gave her a sapphire necklace to mark the start of a new life in America. He died in the water. She survived and had a child by him but sadly couldn't cope with what happened on Titanic and had a difficult relationship with her daughter.
I prefer jack, the nonmarried guy then, I'm glad this is not the story they portrayed lol
@@corneliahanimann2173 well you got to remember rose is engaged so its no worse than the real version. If anything it makes it more accurate, just reverses the genders. The man may not have been happy. Doesnt make it ok but you cant condemn one and ignore the other
@@Celeste-jh2lj hmmmm
You're ruining the movie for me, I'm going to choose ignorance for this one😂😂.
But you'ee right of course, I never considered this.
@@corneliahanimann2173 hey dont feel bad. I completely forgot Cal existed lol
@@Celeste-jh2lj right 😂😂. I remember Cal, but I definitely didnt remember him to be important to the plot.
I remember the sex scene though🤷🏻♀️