I'm glad it is helping you out. The balancer on most of these cars is well past its prime unless it has already been replaced. There are lots of other related technical videos on the channel for you to check out too!
@TracyGunz Glad to hear it helped. I almost didn’t post this video because using a bolt to install the balancer is not really the preferred method, but when the special tool doesn’t fit anyway, a bolt will work. In fairness I have done lots of Ford balancers this way and if you start with a longer than stock bolt your risk to the crank threads is greatly diminished.
Thank you so much for your videos. I have learned a lot about the Fox Body's from watching your channel. I just discovered your channel recently and have been trying to catch up on past videos. I have a bone stock 88 GT. While it is an 80,000 mile survivor and in mostly mint shape, it is still a 35 year old car. I had to replace the clutch fan a couple of months ago because it was all hair-lined cracked. I have heard horror stories of these flying apart. I have also recapped the EEC, which is the DA1 because the 88 is speed density. The caps hadn't started to leak yet. But you could see they were just starting to bulge. Dodged that bullet. After watching this video, you got me worried about the balancer as I'm sure it is stock and probably breaking apart as you pointed out. I will have to get after this before anything bad happens with that. Thank you again!
I had a car in the shop this spring with what was supposed to be a new Dorman replacement balancer and it was spun over 80 degrees. I could not move or wiggle it by hand either, but it had spun almost a quarter turn, so it really does happen. If you find the channel useful, please pass it around. Thanks for watching!
@@tecmotiondyno I’m going through all of the videos! Very very helpful. I’m also doing AFR heads, FiTech carb style fuel injection and removing smog pump and A/C.
Another great vid. I learned 2 things - the rated bolt trick to put the balancer on, and how to easily tell if you're at TDC compression on #1. I assume you located the new balancer at the zero mark. As long as it doesn't move relative to the crank, it's ok for the balancer to move (with the crank) when you're torquing, right?
Yes. The balancer is keyed to the crank and it does not matter if the engine rotates a bit while you torque it down. If you are working on a modular Ford though it is important not to rotate the engine backwards before it has had oil pressure because you can cause the timing chain to jump a tooth. A typical cause of that situation is torquing the flywheel bolts on a modular, which tends to want to turn the engine backwards.
@@tecmotiondyno Thanks for the reply. I'm a fox body hatch guy with the stock 302/T5. If I replace the motor with a built pushrod engine, many come without the balancer. So this vid and your response really help! My goal is someday to have a street Fox that could run in the 11s. So I figure 400 wheel HP target. That means maybe the On3 turbo kit or a 347 stroker NA motor. Still dreaming and researching.
@ if you are at a low track that’s not too tall of an order. I ran 11’s in Alberta where DA’s are commonly in the 6000 ft range with a fox that I could still drive to work. I feel a little funny making tech videos on near stock type stuff because in reality I am a pretty serious modifier but I have been thinking about doing some videos highlighting some performance combos that work going forward. Stay tuned.
@@tecmotiondyno I look forward to seeing them! I think near stock videos are good because they teach the basics that all future work is based on. Crawl, walk, run!
You don’t apply RTV to the threads, just to the keyway. Once you have the balancer seated but before you torque it down, pull the bolt and washer and apply just enough RTV to the keyway to seal it up, then reinstall and torque the bolt. RTV has a limited working time, so this is the last step before torquing. I usually suggest permatex right stuff, but ultra black will also work.
@@tecmotiondynook so I got the bolt undone. Question regarding if I just completely jammed my motor. So I spent half the day turning the harmonic balancer with a wrench trying to get the bolt undone with no avail. I finally took the breaker and put it against metal and cranked the engine finally getting it undone. Now the engine started up no problem. But did I mess up my engine turning it over by hand essentially? I was doing this while it was in gear. Or since it started no issue for a split second no harm no foul?
If what happened is you turned the engine over backwards trying to get the bolt undone, that my itself is unlikely to result in any real problems with a pushrod 5.0 Ford. As I say in the video, an air impact or electric impact is usually the best way to get the bolt off. Using the starter with a breaker bar attached to the front of the engine is generally a very bad choice, but if it didn’t slip and smash up the front cover and accessories it seems likely that you got away with it. I advise anyone else reading this to avoid that procedure like the plague though. A LOT can go wrong with it.
@ oh absolutely but I just did it out of desperation. My impact was too big to fit in the space and really should’ve taken the time to drop the radiator/AC condenser but did NOT feel like doing all that.
@ I had a tire change job on an F-150 one time where one wheel was so stuck to the hub that we finally had to back the wheel nuts off 1/2 turn and do a donut on the asphalt to break it loose, but that was after a lengthy series of progressively more aggressive procedures that all failed. Sometimes these jobs do require some cowboy type stuff but everyone should realize that when you move on to desperate non standard procedures they can be dangerous to your person and property.
This particular car had the elastomer ring visibly coming out of the balancer. That is what holds the outer balance ring to the hub on a factory balancer, and when it fails, the outer ring can turn or even come right off. If it comes off, it breaks all kinds of things. If it turns, the car will start to have a vibration because it is out of balance, and since the timing marks are on the outer ring, if it turns relative to the crankshaft keyway and then you set the timing based on the marks, you will have set the timing wrong. Generally speaking these balancers with the rubber retainer ring are problematic when they get 30 years old like this, and most of the time it is a good idea to replace them with a decent aftermarket balancer like the Powerbond used here.
@@tecmotiondyno Thanks for your reply, I have a old vehicle ,it has recently began to run rough at idle , especially at traffic lights like the timing is retarded and then idle speed starts to drop. I have been told it needs a harmonic balancer. I have never experienced such symptoms before so I was unsure. I came across your video and thought I would ask. It's a historic vehicle with a carburetor and a points distributor.
I just installed PowerBond 1084ss, it was the best choice for the money. Only issue was I had to chase threads for the pulley bolts on reinstall. Thankyou for the videos.
Quality is down all over but that’s the first I’ve heard of it with Powerbond. I did have a customer in the shop the other day with what was supposed to be a new Dorman balancer that was spun over 80 degrees, so it really does happen.
@@ericlthornton571 A thread chaser tap, and new 3/8 bolts. Use compressed air nozzle to blow out any debris. The PB1084ss noticeably smoothed engine vibration. I now regularly test fit all bolts / threads while on the bench instead of halfway through the job under the car. Learned my lesson. Even brand new oil filters will have machining burrs in the threads.
Well, I got a tool from harbor freight that took the original balancer off and installed the new one without a problem! But, it didn't fix the issue. After running the cylinder balance test and finding the #1 cylinder dead, I took the computer out and sent it to FoxResto, who fixed it, and sent it back to me. No issues whatsoever afterward. Runs and drives great!
@techmotiondyno. I have a stocked 1988 Ford Mustang LX 5.0. I am the only owner, so no modifications have been made to it. I hear that Ford made at least 3 harmonic balancers for the 302 and 351 engines. Can you tell me which one is needed for my vehicle? Thank you.
The 88 Mustang 5.0 uses a 50 oz imbalance, so that’s the balancer you need. I’m pretty sure that the Powerbond part number I used is either in the video or in the comments.
Powerbond 1084SS. This is an SFI approved 50 oz balancer which costs around $250 Canadian. You could just use a cheap service replacement, but for a tiny bit more money you get a real quality part that will NEVER fail in an application like this.
Matt I have a good balancer that is working fine but 20 years old or so, have to do engine work due to timing chain issue. Is this something that I should just replace while I’m in there?
Hey great video! But I’m having trouble getting the harmonic balancer back on. If I try to put the crank bolt back in and tighten it it doesn’t push in the balancer. Am I missing something?
I hope you didn’t strip the crank threads. You should use a longer bolt to get decent engagement on the crank threads like I did or better yet a balancer installer if you could find one that works with the 5.0 setup. If you have an automatic you should still be able to get it started but at some point you will just start turning the whole crankshaft so you may have to brace it with something. If I recall when I did this automatic I used a steel bar between a flat spot on the edge of the balancer and the shop floor with a microfiber in between to avoid marring the balancer.
Got tow questions I have to do this job what did you mean about the old shaft dropping into the pan ? And sec question how do I get the longer bolt to install the balancer before using the reg bolt I dident fully understand if you could please fully explain so I can get in proper and correct and do t screw anything up my car me and a lot to me and I don’t wanna pay someone to do this job when I know in an just do it my self so please help in anyway you can
There is a key on the crankshaft. It engages both the balancer and lower timing chain sprocket. It isn’t all that likely to fall out and into the pan, but if you orient the engine the way I show you, the keyway will be at the top of the crankshaft and this makes it even less likely that it will fall into the pan when you pull the balancer. I got a longer bolt at a professional fastener supply store - Bolt Supply House in Calgary. You won’t be able to get something like this at just any hardware store. McMaster Carr is a National mail order fastener house if you don’t live near a dedicated fastener supplier.
@@tecmotiondyno ok thank you so much for the info so bring it to tbc on compression stroke like you did and check the cap and rotor to make sure so the key way will by on too I get what your saying now and one question might sound stupid but does my 5.0 motor have reverse treads ???
Do you have to change the timing cover seal I have a older f150 needs a balancer. Got the basic one from rock auto. Not trying to put a lot of money in the truck this moment. Maybe In the future
If the seal is good and there were no leaks around the original balancer, you should be fine. If you do have to replace the seal, chances are you will have to pull the front cover because they are not easy to get out otherwise. I reused the seal on this one and after running the heck out of it on the dyno it looks fine. Make sure you put a little grease on the balancer on the seal surface when you install it.
I can’t get my timing cover off 👹. I’ve removed all water pump bolts, water pump, harmonic balancer, 4 forward facing bolts, 4 ground facing (oil pan to cover) bolts. I’m using pry bars and the top is coming off but the bottom feels like there’s a bolt still attached but this is/ can’t be…
There are dowels on the outside bottom corners and that cover has to slide straight forward until it clears them. Often is is held in place by the gasket and the pan and when you try to take it off it wants to pry upwards and bind against the dowels. If I had my guess, I would guess this was a factor in your problem.
No, but it is a best practice and easy to do. As I pointed out, when you set it at TDC #1 compression the keyway will be at the top and there is a much reduced chance of losing the key in the pan, and if for some reason you end up loosening or pulling the distributor, you are at a good known reference point to put it back. Just use a ratchet to turn it to TDC just before pulling the bolt. It will take you an extra 20 seconds.
You would normally just reuse the pulley bolts that you took off the car - they aren’t anything special if you do have to replace them. The longer balancer bolt is 5/8” by 2 1/4” fine thread. You can find TDC by pulling the #1 plug and using an inspection camera to watch for the piston to come up to the top. If your engine is still timed correctly you can also pull the distributor cap and turn the engine over until the rotor is just slightly past the location of the #1 terminal. Neither of these methods is super precise but should be good enough for the purposes of this installation.
I appreciate your time and content I'm learning from you I've had many foxes but never really learned how to maintain them so I appreciate your time
Thanks for watching!
I’ve been searching all over because I have this exact same car and issue. Awesome video!
I'm glad it is helping you out. The balancer on most of these cars is well past its prime unless it has already been replaced. There are lots of other related technical videos on the channel for you to check out too!
Thanks for video, I am changing one today in an 85 mustang with a 302 boss. This sure made it a lot easier, man! Thanks again!
@TracyGunz Glad to hear it helped. I almost didn’t post this video because using a bolt to install the balancer is not really the preferred method, but when the special tool doesn’t fit anyway, a bolt will work. In fairness I have done lots of Ford balancers this way and if you start with a longer than stock bolt your risk to the crank threads is greatly diminished.
Thank you so much for your videos. I have learned a lot about the Fox Body's from watching your channel. I just discovered your channel recently and have been trying to catch up on past videos. I have a bone stock 88 GT. While it is an 80,000 mile survivor and in mostly mint shape, it is still a 35 year old car. I had to replace the clutch fan a couple of months ago because it was all hair-lined cracked. I have heard horror stories of these flying apart. I have also recapped the EEC, which is the DA1 because the 88 is speed density. The caps hadn't started to leak yet. But you could see they were just starting to bulge. Dodged that bullet. After watching this video, you got me worried about the balancer as I'm sure it is stock and probably breaking apart as you pointed out. I will have to get after this before anything bad happens with that. Thank you again!
I had a car in the shop this spring with what was supposed to be a new Dorman replacement balancer and it was spun over 80 degrees. I could not move or wiggle it by hand either, but it had spun almost a quarter turn, so it really does happen. If you find the channel useful, please pass it around. Thanks for watching!
Same here
Great video! Thanks for making this video and sharing your knowledge
Hope it has helped you out!
@@tecmotiondyno it will. I’m removing everything to upgrade the cam and timing chain on my 95 mustang gt 302.
@motor_citymuscle288 There are all kinds of videos on here regarding a 302 engine build up which you might find helpful too. Thanks for watching!
@@tecmotiondyno I’m going through all of the videos! Very very helpful. I’m also doing AFR heads, FiTech carb style fuel injection and removing smog pump and A/C.
1:54 giggity!!😂😂
I laughed at myself! It’s like Beavis and Butthead!
Another great vid. I learned 2 things - the rated bolt trick to put the balancer on, and how to easily tell if you're at TDC compression on #1. I assume you located the new balancer at the zero mark. As long as it doesn't move relative to the crank, it's ok for the balancer to move (with the crank) when you're torquing, right?
Yes. The balancer is keyed to the crank and it does not matter if the engine rotates a bit while you torque it down. If you are working on a modular Ford though it is important not to rotate the engine backwards before it has had oil pressure because you can cause the timing chain to jump a tooth. A typical cause of that situation is torquing the flywheel bolts on a modular, which tends to want to turn the engine backwards.
@@tecmotiondyno Thanks for the reply. I'm a fox body hatch guy with the stock 302/T5. If I replace the motor with a built pushrod engine, many come without the balancer. So this vid and your response really help! My goal is someday to have a street Fox that could run in the 11s. So I figure 400 wheel HP target. That means maybe the On3 turbo kit or a 347 stroker NA motor. Still dreaming and researching.
@ if you are at a low track that’s not too tall of an order. I ran 11’s in Alberta where DA’s are commonly in the 6000 ft range with a fox that I could still drive to work. I feel a little funny making tech videos on near stock type stuff because in reality I am a pretty serious modifier but I have been thinking about doing some videos highlighting some performance combos that work going forward. Stay tuned.
@@tecmotiondyno I look forward to seeing them! I think near stock videos are good because they teach the basics that all future work is based on. Crawl, walk, run!
So after putting the bolt in and tightening it back the bolt out and apply RTV black to the threads?
You don’t apply RTV to the threads, just to the keyway. Once you have the balancer seated but before you torque it down, pull the bolt and washer and apply just enough RTV to the keyway to seal it up, then reinstall and torque the bolt. RTV has a limited working time, so this is the last step before torquing. I usually suggest permatex right stuff, but ultra black will also work.
@@tecmotiondynook so I got the bolt undone. Question regarding if I just completely jammed my motor. So I spent half the day turning the harmonic balancer with a wrench trying to get the bolt undone with no avail. I finally took the breaker and put it against metal and cranked the engine finally getting it undone. Now the engine started up no problem. But did I mess up my engine turning it over by hand essentially? I was doing this while it was in gear. Or since it started no issue for a split second no harm no foul?
If what happened is you turned the engine over backwards trying to get the bolt undone, that my itself is unlikely to result in any real problems with a pushrod 5.0 Ford. As I say in the video, an air impact or electric impact is usually the best way to get the bolt off. Using the starter with a breaker bar attached to the front of the engine is generally a very bad choice, but if it didn’t slip and smash up the front cover and accessories it seems likely that you got away with it. I advise anyone else reading this to avoid that procedure like the plague though. A LOT can go wrong with it.
@ oh absolutely but I just did it out of desperation. My impact was too big to fit in the space and really should’ve taken the time to drop the radiator/AC condenser but did NOT feel like doing all that.
@ I had a tire change job on an F-150 one time where one wheel was so stuck to the hub that we finally had to back the wheel nuts off 1/2 turn and do a donut on the asphalt to break it loose, but that was after a lengthy series of progressively more aggressive procedures that all failed. Sometimes these jobs do require some cowboy type stuff but everyone should realize that when you move on to desperate non standard procedures they can be dangerous to your person and property.
Could you tell me what symptoms your vehicle exhibited that required replacement of the harmonic balancer. Idle , timing , ? Thanks
This particular car had the elastomer ring visibly coming out of the balancer. That is what holds the outer balance ring to the hub on a factory balancer, and when it fails, the outer ring can turn or even come right off. If it comes off, it breaks all kinds of things. If it turns, the car will start to have a vibration because it is out of balance, and since the timing marks are on the outer ring, if it turns relative to the crankshaft keyway and then you set the timing based on the marks, you will have set the timing wrong. Generally speaking these balancers with the rubber retainer ring are problematic when they get 30 years old like this, and most of the time it is a good idea to replace them with a decent aftermarket balancer like the Powerbond used here.
@@tecmotiondyno Thanks for your reply, I have a old vehicle ,it has recently began to run rough at idle , especially at traffic lights like the timing is retarded and then idle speed starts to drop. I have been told it needs a harmonic balancer.
I have never experienced such symptoms before so I was unsure.
I came across your video and thought I would ask.
It's a historic vehicle with a carburetor and a points distributor.
I just installed PowerBond 1084ss, it was the best choice for the money. Only issue was I had to chase threads for the pulley bolts on reinstall. Thankyou for the videos.
Quality is down all over but that’s the first I’ve heard of it with Powerbond. I did have a customer in the shop the other day with what was supposed to be a new Dorman balancer that was spun over 80 degrees, so it really does happen.
@geomaz35, what tools did you use to chase the threads in your pulley bolt holes on the pb1084ss? I've got to do the same to mine, too
@@ericlthornton571 A thread chaser tap, and new 3/8 bolts. Use compressed air nozzle to blow out any debris. The PB1084ss noticeably smoothed engine vibration. I now regularly test fit all bolts / threads while on the bench instead of halfway through the job under the car. Learned my lesson. Even brand new oil filters will have machining burrs in the threads.
Well, I got a tool from harbor freight that took the original balancer off and installed the new one without a problem! But, it didn't fix the issue. After running the cylinder balance test and finding the #1 cylinder dead, I took the computer out and sent it to FoxResto, who fixed it, and sent it back to me. No issues whatsoever afterward. Runs and drives great!
@techmotiondyno. I have a stocked 1988 Ford Mustang LX 5.0. I am the only owner, so no modifications have been made to it. I hear that Ford made at least 3 harmonic balancers for the 302 and 351 engines. Can you tell me which one is needed for my vehicle? Thank you.
The 88 Mustang 5.0 uses a 50 oz imbalance, so that’s the balancer you need. I’m pretty sure that the Powerbond part number I used is either in the video or in the comments.
@@tecmotiondyno You don't mention the part number but at 17:49, you pan to the HB, but it is hard to make out the numbers on it.
Matt, which replacement balancer did you use? Thank you
Powerbond 1084SS. This is an SFI approved 50 oz balancer which costs around $250 Canadian. You could just use a cheap service replacement, but for a tiny bit more money you get a real quality part that will NEVER fail in an application like this.
Matt I have a good balancer that is working fine but 20 years old or so, have to do engine work due to timing chain issue. Is this something that I should just replace while I’m in there?
Hey great video! But I’m having trouble getting the harmonic balancer back on. If I try to put the crank bolt back in and tighten it it doesn’t push in the balancer. Am I missing something?
I hope you didn’t strip the crank threads. You should use a longer bolt to get decent engagement on the crank threads like I did or better yet a balancer installer if you could find one that works with the 5.0 setup. If you have an automatic you should still be able to get it started but at some point you will just start turning the whole crankshaft so you may have to brace it with something. If I recall when I did this automatic I used a steel bar between a flat spot on the edge of the balancer and the shop floor with a microfiber in between to avoid marring the balancer.
Got tow questions I have to do this job what did you mean about the old shaft dropping into the pan ? And sec question how do I get the longer bolt to install the balancer before using the reg bolt I dident fully understand if you could please fully explain so I can get in proper and correct and do t screw anything up my car me and a lot to me and I don’t wanna pay someone to do this job when I know in an just do it my self so please help in anyway you can
There is a key on the crankshaft. It engages both the balancer and lower timing chain sprocket. It isn’t all that likely to fall out and into the pan, but if you orient the engine the way I show you, the keyway will be at the top of the crankshaft and this makes it even less likely that it will fall into the pan when you pull the balancer. I got a longer bolt at a professional fastener supply store - Bolt Supply House in Calgary. You won’t be able to get something like this at just any hardware store. McMaster Carr is a National mail order fastener house if you don’t live near a dedicated fastener supplier.
@@tecmotiondyno ok thank you so much for the info so bring it to tbc on compression stroke like you did and check the cap and rotor to make sure so the key way will by on too I get what your saying now and one question might sound stupid but does my 5.0 motor have reverse treads ???
Do you have to change the timing cover seal
I have a older f150 needs a balancer. Got the basic one from rock auto. Not trying to put a lot of money in the truck this moment. Maybe In the future
If the seal is good and there were no leaks around the original balancer, you should be fine. If you do have to replace the seal, chances are you will have to pull the front cover because they are not easy to get out otherwise. I reused the seal on this one and after running the heck out of it on the dyno it looks fine. Make sure you put a little grease on the balancer on the seal surface when you install it.
Did you have to remove the radiator? I see a lot of guys doing that . I feel its unesasarry
No, you don’t have to remove the radiator on a Foxbody for this.
I can’t get my timing cover off 👹. I’ve removed all water pump bolts, water pump, harmonic balancer, 4 forward facing bolts, 4 ground facing (oil pan to cover) bolts. I’m using pry bars and the top is coming off but the bottom feels like there’s a bolt still attached but this is/ can’t be…
I may apply heat from a heat gun to see if that helps. The car only has 80,000 miles in it. 95 mustang gt 302
There are dowels on the outside bottom corners and that cover has to slide straight forward until it clears them. Often is is held in place by the gasket and the pan and when you try to take it off it wants to pry upwards and bind against the dowels. If I had my guess, I would guess this was a factor in your problem.
@@tecmotiondyno interesting. Makes sense, since the top is coming loose but the bottom isn’t budging.
Great video! Do I HAVE to set motor to tdc when replacing harmonic balancer?? Or can I just take the old one off and slide the new one on the key way
No, but it is a best practice and easy to do. As I pointed out, when you set it at TDC #1 compression the keyway will be at the top and there is a much reduced chance of losing the key in the pan, and if for some reason you end up loosening or pulling the distributor, you are at a good known reference point to put it back. Just use a ratchet to turn it to TDC just before pulling the bolt. It will take you an extra 20 seconds.
@@tecmotiondyno Ok thank you for your advice! I appreciate the help
You never stated sizes of the 4 bolts in the pulley and the size for big bolt.
Also, what if the balancer has already spun apart. How do I find TDC?
You would normally just reuse the pulley bolts that you took off the car - they aren’t anything special if you do have to replace them. The longer balancer bolt is 5/8” by 2 1/4” fine thread. You can find TDC by pulling the #1 plug and using an inspection camera to watch for the piston to come up to the top. If your engine is still timed correctly you can also pull the distributor cap and turn the engine over until the rotor is just slightly past the location of the #1 terminal. Neither of these methods is super precise but should be good enough for the purposes of this installation.