Mal hate's that he has a conscience and he's so annoyed by that duel in Shindig "Mercy is the mark of a great man" Stabs the guy "Guess I'm just a good man" Stabs the guy again "Well I'm alright" Yeah that's a pretty spot on assessment
Firefly is THE example of corporate meddling absolutely killing what should have been a gold standard TV show or movie. Airing episodes out of order, changing timeslots etc. This show, this writer, this cast was lightning in a bottle, and studio meddling killed it 😢
I also love when Mal says that love will tell you she's hurting before she keens. Keening is a mourning cry, and while, yes, colloquially it refers to an animal crying in pain, when a person keens, it's usually a deep emotional pain. And sure, he's talking about a ship, but it can really be applied to people. Loving someone is seeing someone's pain before they really openly mourn and that's beautiful.
Huh. I always heard it as keel, as in over. But given the anachronistic way joss uses language in the show guess it could be that too. (When was the last time you heard someone use "conjure" in casual conversation?" )Either way, great dialog.
*Loving someone is seeing someone's pain before they really openly mourn* Well that's a thought to bring into my fic writing. And reading, for that matter. Paying attention to the ways that characters who are close, or care about the other's welfare, can pick up on internal emotional states without obvious outward signs.
Haha, I can't help myself. Just the very thought of mournful keening takes me back to this AMAZING clip! It's of Robin Williams and Carol Burnett in the improv sketch "The Funeral". See: th-cam.com/video/jfDyTUiL8xs/w-d-xo.html
I've always found him a really interesting character because of the implications that he was an Alliance official of significant standing/reputation (possibly in the intelligence sector, given the continuing deference he's able to command); I don't think it ever came up in the series, but I certainly headcannon that he lost his faith (in the Alliance) during the War of Independence and turned to religious faith to try and make amends. He doesn't judge because he knows he isn't without blame and has no right to cast the first stone.
Some of the greatest moments of growth I have had as a Christian was when I was confronted with difficult questions, that forced me to research and think and learn. So yes, questioning is a big part of growth.
Oh, Geez, the first time I saw that scene I screamed full out - not only did it startle the heck out of me, but oohhhh my favorite character by faaaar! Apart from Kaylee, of course. She will always be the most precious little bean. Also - If anyone was unaware; Parvaati was modeled after her in the game Outer Worlds!
I had a D&D character that uses names like Cloud on the Mountaintop, or Smoking Mirror. I had wanted his name to use Leaf. I had then I guess subconsciously named him Leaf on the Wind. First time I played a session as him, the DM looks at me with a twinkle in his eye and just said "wow". Then it hit me.
I watched this movie with my dad years ago. When Mal said "maybe that's why we lost", my dad said in the heaviest voice I ever remember him use. "Maybe that's true..." My dad is a veteran of the South African border war. He has seen things, I know of an ambush and anti-panzer mine he lived through. This scene hit me so hard. Dad was this calm, quiet man who clawed a decent living for me, my mom and my sister. Now whenever I watch Firefly or Serenity, I see my dad, the good and broken man who does everything he can just to be a provider.
My favorite quote by Mal that sums up his morals: You don't know me, son, so let me explain this to you once: If I ever kill you, you'll be awake. You'll be facing me, and you'll be armed.
I love the way Mal pauses and looks at River before he says "better". She, too, is someone the Alliance tried to make "better" who ended up worse off. She's as much a victim as any of the people on Miranda, but she's also represents the people they can still save by stepping up to fight.
I love that moment too, because he's literally talking about how eventually the Alliance will swing back around to the idea they were trying on Miranda, to make people controllable, and as he says that he looks at River, and realizes that they've already tried it again... maybe they never stopped trying it at all.... and Mal can't let that be.
For me, Mal was defined in the second episode with the train heist. (Trying not to spoil too much) At the end they encounter the sheriff and he says something like "When you find out what's being done, a man's got a choice." And Mal responds "I don't think he does." That stamped the character with one line.
For me, it's that scene which is immediately followed by a scene of him kicking a man who just announced himself as a threat to him and his crew into a turbine and shredding him, that tells me who Mal is too. Honestly I love that those two scenes play within minutes of eachother. He's a good man at his core, but he'll protect himself and his crew with little hesitation or guilt.
@@selonianth And that's why I named my son "Alec Malcolm." Alec means "Defender of the people," and Malcolm Reynolds is a man who fiercely protects those whom he loves. He is also a man capable of change--someone who is not finished. So it is a reminder: we are never done in trying to be a better person. That's a lifelong goal.
I believe I recall that the train heist episode was supposed to be the pilot but the network insisted on switching for no reason anyone could explain. It interfered with the audience connecting and understanding the characters.
I like to think that Mal/Book's relationship is about Book giving Malcolm permission to try to be better in spite of his failure, and Mal teaching Book that hiding in peace isn't good enough because implementing morality in practical situations sometimes requires violence(action). And they both learn not to base themselves now on their failures in the past
@@macberry4048 "Booking Agent" jokes aside, this was always my head canon as well. Apparently the comics make him out as a more common thief but Book being an ex-operative explains more of his hard turn toward atonement, his uncanny skill with guns, and his knowledge of criminals like you said.
@@StormcrowIV Actually Book was a thief turned Brown Coat spy. On behalf of the Independents he joined the Alliance, reported troop movements, would purposely cause his own command to.lose battles or have ships destroyed. While the Alliance couldn't prove he wasn't inept and was doing tbis on purpose he was eventually discharged and he felt so guilty about the lives he took that he joined a monastery until we meet him when he boards Serenity. He found an ease to his guilt and PTSD in God and thats why he often wants Malcolm to believe because he feels renewal in his faith could help Mal.
yeah he nails what the massiv difference is! Belivieing and shutting down all mental capability in its name are two entirely different things and way to often people who are religious are not capable to deffirentiate between the critiquing of the later and the first. So many criemes and atrocities where commited in the name of god and the curch as an institution covering up for that if they are not activly involved is horrendous!!! That does not mean there are not christions who do speak up and who just found something of tremmendous value for themselfs and others in belief
@@Raison_d-etre The term "Christian" literally means "little Christ", in our language that would be "Christ follower". The man himself said you will know the tree by its fruit. So, calling someone who doesn't act like Christ a non-Christian isn't a No True Scotsman fallacy, it's a definitional truth. Christians act like Christ, period. Remember, the issue with all beliefs is that they rely on self reporting. I'd hate to assume atheism is wrong just because Lenin, Stalin, and Mao were atheists...
@@Ramschat nah, Han is like the personification of Chaotic Neutral turns to Chaotic Good. While Mal is the personification of calling people who think Lawful Good has to be Lawful Stupid: basic.
I love that you spent so much time talking about Mal talking about love at the end. In the first episode of Firefly, at the very end, Simon starts pestering Mal as to why he's in such a bad mood. Roughly paraphrased it's: "We've had all these horrible things happen to us all day, how are you in such a good mood?" To which Mal replies: "We're still flying." Simon: "That's not much." Mal, smiling: "No, but it's enough." It's such a small comment that can be interpreted in such a big way. Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down -- and sometimes the fact that you're still flying is enough of a miracle in itself that you might as well keep going. (Being the nerd I am, struggling through the worst depressive episodes of my life while in college when I first started to love the show, I actually got "Still Flying" tattooed on my back. Little comment, big impact).
"You don't know me son, so I'm only gonna say this once: If I ever kill you you'll be awake, you'll be facing me, and you'll be armed." "Are you always this sentimental?" "I had a good day..."
@@CinemaTherapyShow I aim to misbehave.... On a side note just recently found the channel and fascinated If you good gentlemen have the time The Accountant would be a GREAT case study for dealing with responding to and both Autism and trauma
Make certain that you see it in the correct order, not the aired order. 14 episodes and the movie. After that, there are comic books, roleplaying games, novels, and Reaction videos.
From your username I take it you are a Supernatural fan? You might recognise Kaylee played by Jewel Staite. Also you clearly like good TV shows, so you're bound to also enjoy Firefly ;)
It's often claimed that left to their own devices, good people will do good and evil people will do evil, but that religion is necessary to force evil people to do good. What often gets left unspoken is religion's ability to make good people do evil.
I would agree if we're talking zealotism...if one still has one's free will and isn't brainwashed or coerced into performance, I think faith/religion has it's good points. But oh the evil that's been done in the name of piety...Spanish Inquisition, Residential Schools, colonization pretty much anywhere on the globe through history where it's led to exploitation and oppression of the local population, or eradication of it sometimes.
There is *religion* as a structure or entity and then there is religion as action. True religion would see people aiding, defending, and helping each other. But yes, good people can be warped by circumstance and convinced they are doing good (look at the general German populace with the Nazis) while the reality is so much different. Good and Evil are not passive yet we have come to see Good especially as something passive.
Just saw this and found your comment interesting. My parents taught me that religion is mankind's attempt at understanding God or the universe (something they can't understand) but because religions are created or manifested by men, they can never be infallible. We just have to figure out what we believe and we associate with this religion because it makes the most sense to us. Faith is what you believe, religion is how you enact that belief. I spent part of my early childhood in a very narrow-minded and prejudiced church environment that did not want us to question anything but my parents taught us to question everything and think for ourselves. I do not miss the zealotry of that "we're the only ones who can be right" mindset and nowadays I find myself facing the zealots of a new religion. The religion of science. These new zealots believe "science" is the only answer and can be the only answer and if science doesn't agree with what they want to be true, it gets thrown out and ignored and it's every bit as wrong as the people clinging to the religion of my early childhood. They can't seem to fathom that science is actually never set in stone but always evolving and progressing as we learn and question as any good faith does.
@@sivonni that's not at all how science works. Yes, we're not going to toss out established science based on observation and experimentation for fairy tales and superstition. But if evidence shows something we believed is actually wrong, we switch. That's how science works. Unlike religion which does not - cannot - change, and which is based on nothing.
When you said that Mal is irritated that he has a conscience, it made me think of Wolverine and how he puts on a gruff exterior and wants people to believe he doesn't care, but he can't help but care.
Zealots on the left and right, with the jaded and disenfranchized in the middle, but those with love rise above it all and make their way through, scratched, but not destroyed, with a clear vision of where they're going.
"Love. Can know all the math in the 'verse but take a boat in the air that you don't love? She'll shake you off just as sure as a turn in the worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down...tell you she's hurtin' 'fore she keens...makes her a home.” my husband and I used this for our wedding. And it still rings true to this day. you can have all the knowledge in the world but if you don't have love or empathy, the knowledge is nothing. Sometimes I forget that but i remind myself that love is there it just did need to be shown.
Love that Alan is wearing his old Fruity Oaty Bars T-shirt for the occasion. Only a Serenity fan would appreciate that (and also want one of those T-shirts for themselves).
I just recently found this channel. As a person diagnosed with PTSD and who suffered for decades with suicidal ideation I say that for me, belief in something greater than myself is the life raft that keeps me from drowning when I'm too tired to swim.
Mal's belief in his crew (family) is such a powerful core element to the show. For example when he lies about sleeping with Zoey to keep Alan Tudyk from dying when they're being tortured. Beautiful
Mal was damaged when the Rebels lost, not just because they lost but because both sides abandoned their wounded and dying in the valley. Zoey will back him forever because he cared and did as much as he could to help his comrades, even when their "leaders" left them. He will never leave them.
Shepherd Book is such an incredible character and from such a confluence of events... a devout Christian, amazingly written by a devout atheist, and beautifully acted by a devout Buddhist.
The first episode where Zoe describes what they do had me SHOOK, and then when we actually see their aftermath in the episode Bushwacked I had to take a whole ass day to process
Okay, I sometimes watch analyses of movies/shows without having watched the movie/show itself. But, because you guys insisted soo darn much, I paused at the 11:10 mark and watched all of Firefly and Serenity with this tab still open and resumed the video when I was done. Thank you for insisting.
Were you an atheist when you were training to become a pastor? Or did you become an atheist because you were training to be a pastor? Need to know how that theological egg or the chicken first situation played out,cause it's curious.
@@TheMallachiv really good question I became an atheist from the process of learning pastoral doctrine. That being said I’ve always been skeptical so may have been a doomed start
I've always seen Mal as some who was damaged by his inability to protect and save the people and the cause he served in Serenity Valley, so instead he created a smaller Serenity that he could control and he protects and cares for all who enter her. It's the motivation of The Tiny Kingdom that you see a lot among elementary school teachers. "I can't control much of my own life , but I control everything inside this room."
I always liked and appreciated how a guy like Joss Whedon explored the issues of faith, belief, doubt, and spirituality and in ways that I always found to be way more profound than anything done in "christian" cinema that is more preachy than explorative.
Mal is a humanist who puts his faith in the the people around him that he trusts. After Shepherd Book's death and the discovery of Miranda, I think Mal rises to the occasion and re-discovers his spirituality. Or at least enough of it to get him through the day. Thanks for picking this film, its probably my #1 favorite.
I was full on not prepared for I am a leaf on the wind- I watched it at home. No one had spoiled it, I screamed and had to take a break. I still am not over it.
Good stuff! I've replied on some of the facebook pages, but I'll say the same here. It was interesting that the Operative had belief at the start of the movie and Mal didn't. By the end of the movie, they switched. Mal had the belief and the Operative lost his. Honestly I never noticed that until this video made me think about it. Quite brilliant story telling actually.
That's one of the reasons I like Joss Whedon. His works layers have layers (to paraphrase Ironman). I love what he did in terms of character development with pretty much every character on his shows, but some of my favorites are Spike and Willow (Buffy); Wesley and Fred (Angel); Mal and River (Firefly); Adele and Topher (Dollhouse). Other topics from a series that might be interesting for this channel: using words as a tool not to have to communicate (and how Hush deals with it) and not speaking about "secrets", that really should be talked about (Once more with feeling). I'm really looking forward to the Nevers starting. It's been too long since a Joss Whedon show was on the air.
@@snake7197 Sadly, the last bit of this comment didn't age well, but I do agree with a lot you said here. It's a crying shame that Joss let his demons rule him instead of rising up to his better angels.
'i'm a leaf on the wind watch how i soar' is actually what i say when i, a person with constant anxiety, try to navigate straining situations that require some letting go / trusting my body/ the process
I think you guys should talk about Rogue One. I see a lot of Malcolm Reynolds in Jyn Erso, especially when she says "it's not a problem if you don't look up."
The different interpretations of beliefs and morality between Mal and the Operator reminds me of the differences between Val Jean and Javier in Les Miserables. One being compassion and forgiveness and the other being religious law and service.
I was actually going to make this observation, but you beat me too it. While the Operative has a very different personality than Javert, they share that absolute, rigid adherence to what they believe. And their roles are very similar.
The thing is valjon wasn't just compassionate kindness. He was someone trying to get justice for someone who deserved it. Individuals need both. They need balance. Compassion without justice is permitting evil to thrive. Justice without compassion is tyranny. Both are needed conjoined together for life to be good
I just watched Serenity (again) this past weekend. It never fails to entertain and to inspire. I loved this video where they explained some of the lighting and other aspects of the film that I had not considered but which made a lot of sense. Firefly and Serenity - one of the best TV shows ever and a fantastic movie! I'm a Brown Coat and proud of it.
I wonder if one day, they'll manage a *good* [operative word bc if it sucked, NOOO] re-boot after the too-short series and movie. A new generation of the crew ... I'd love it. IF it was good. I miss the sometimes-archaic language, the costumes, the Serenity. And I think many Browncoats might love it, too. It does need some Chinese people on board though.
@@katmatally Well the following makes me feel a little queasy: "According to GiantFreakingRobot, there is a pretty credible source claiming that a Firefly reboot is definitely coming to Disney+. “My source tells me that Disney is in early development on a Firefly reboot. The new show would start the story of Captain Mal Reynolds and his crew aboard the Serenity over from scratch, with an aim to make this a long-running series on Disney+,” the outlet revealed." (this from site Distractify) I am already cringing.
Funny thing. When I went to Afghanistan, it was Christian. My nickname was Jesus because I was the only believer in my platoon. When I got back home, I had lost faith, lost God, and lost myself to a severe case of PTSD and nihilism. Truth is. I never lost my faith... I was just so angry a God for letting the things happen the way they did back in Afghanistan. In 2017 I went on a pilgrimage on the Camino De Santiago. Last year I gave myself back to God. It has helped me find peace and a way through the struggle. Still fighting the battle though. PTSD never gives up. But things are better without nihilism.
I love the scene where River reads the bible and marked everything that contradicted itself or was not logical. And the shepard is just so chill about it. I need to see it again.
I've been binge-watching your channel, and came to this video just after watching the one on Aragorn and Toxic Masculinity. I just realized that the scene in which Mal holds dying Shepherd Book is very much alike the one with Aragorn and dying Boromir! I've always seen Mal as a man who is evolving and learning as he goes. He has some strong limiting masculinity traits (specially towards Inara and Kaylee) that slowly break down as the series go. Sometimes I wonder where Firefly characters would end up had they had the chance... oh Fox, you damage my calm.
At the same time, though, I think maybe overall it's a good thing the story was forced to be told in a condensed manner. Seeing all the questionable places ongoing media often end up in in the name of staying ongoing... we're maybe actually lucky that we got Serenity rather than several seasons of Firefly.
One of the things I wish to point out with "The Operative" is that he is actually self aware about his actions to the point, he KNOWS what his higher ups are doing and what he does, maybe not the extent, but he knows to the point of he says he realizes there is no place for him in the place the Alliance is trying to build. He knows that, in the end, there is no place for him in the utopia due to his own laundry list of sins. yes, he needed to see the extent of the sin to realize what he had been doing all those years was wrong, but he knew to an extent what he was doing and who he was doing it for and still did it anyways. He was not completely ignorant of who he was taking orders from.
"...but he knew to an extent what he was doing..." Not to an extent. He is the epitome of "the ends justify the means". He knows exactly what he's doing all along. He's a martyr. The thing is, as it so often is, is that he doesn't have all the information. He's being sold the belief by someone who doesn't believe, by someone who does have all the information - and an ulterior motive. And therein lies the danger of unquestioning belief. It reminds me of the movie Dogma. "...He said, "Mankind got it all wrong by takin' a good idea and building a belief structure out of it." "So you're saying that having beliefs is a bad thing?" "I just think it's better to have an idea. You can change an idea; changing a belief is trickier. People die for it, people kill for it..."
I think it's less the extent of the sin and more that the "world without sin" that he was striving for isn't worth striving for. His belief is centred around doing anything necessary to create a better world for others (a laudable goal), but the type of better world he is trying to create is not what he thought, and the "end" he uses to justify his "means" is not what he believed in.
This is why I wish they included what the Operative says after Mal asked what happens after he gets his "Better World". He absolutely is a zealot b/c he views the destruction he rains down on others as martyring himself. "The Operative: I'm not going to live there. There's no place for me there... any more than there is for you. Malcolm... I'm a monster. What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done."
I love how in the commentary of this film they talk about how the operative being in darkness was meant to contrast Mal's standing in the light moment. The operative has lost his faith. He's in darkness now. He has nothing. It's the most obvious reversal, and yet he doesn't get "an end to his story", he doesn't die. It's just nice that they play into tropes without playing into all of the tropes.
Mal and the Operative are such a brilliant pair of Hero/Villain, one of the best I've ever seen. In terms of D&D alignment (though it can be a bit reductive and overly objective in what is Good and Evil), Mal and the Operative are diametric opposites on the scale. However, both are twists on the typical versions of their respective alignments. Mal is best classified as Chaotic Good, albeit one who tries *very* hard for a long time to bury the Good part of himself and act only in his own selfish interests out of cynicism. However, even broken as he is, the Good will always shine through when he sees the innocent being oppressed and taken advantage of (see: "The Train Job", "Heart of Gold", and his entire relationship with River). The Operative, in contrast, is a very interesting example of Lawful Evil. In truth, his morality is more in line with Lawful Good, but the atrocities he commits make him undeniably Evil. He says so himself in his "There's no place for me there" speech. He *chooses* to be evil to do things he feels are necessary for the good of all, and to keep the hands of others clean. And that makes him more terrifying than someone who believes their actions are good. He believes he is already damned, so there is no atrocity that he will not commit, nothing that will be going too far in his mind to create the society he imagines. Ultimately, their conflict boils down to the conflict of the good of the individual vs. the good of the society, which is very much the heart of the conflict between Law and Chaos in D&D. And, in the end, Mal wins the conflict because he shows the Operative a society that is willing to sacrifice the good of the individual cannot be trusted to truly protect the good of the society.
3:04 - *"Belief in a power greater than yourself"* is how a sci-fi writer defined "sentient" in a convention panel on how space explorers can determine if the life forms they meet are just animals or are intelligent, reasoning beings. I said to my friends, "well, that lets cats out. They believe THEY are the highest life forms!"
When the shepherd says I don't care what you believe in just believe it reminds me of this little movie called The Secondhand Lions where he said it doesn't matter if it's true or not there are some things you need to believe in
As a Christian and a Browncoat, this video means so much to me and I appreciate the both of you even more now. Sheppard Book is my favourite person of faith in all of fiction and I aspire to follow his example. "I don't care what you believe, just believe " is the core of my belief system. I think it's important for everyone to find something to believe in and to respect the beliefs of others. It doesn't have to be God, it can be a person or an ideal or anything. As long as you don't hurt other people in the name of your belief.
Air, water, food, shelter. And Love Loved the relationships among all the characters. Book and Jayne working out together. Doc and his sister. Kailee and everyone but especially Inara. Wash and his wife.
The irony is, while we see glimpses of Mal's apathy in Firefly, it's always counterbalanced by a strong moral core. A sense of what is right independent of religion, or perhaps a vestige of it. By the time of Serenity, Shepherd Book has left. Inara has found her own way, and Mal has been left with Jane (who encourages all his worst faults) and Zoe (who can't offer the necessary moral pushback to right his course) as his go two pair on heists. Suddenly Simon and River look a little less like family to him, and a little more of a problem threatening the lives of the rest of his crew; the outsiders. For the first time since the first episode of Firefly, we see Mal willing to shoot the albatross, because that's what living without hope does to you. The second Inara and Book return to the scene, you can see Mal start to realise the pieces of himself he's been letting fall by the wayside, that Serenity has come to mean anything but for its crew. Because as much as he may have denied it in the show, Mal was being driven by faith; not in god, but in Serenity as a concept. The drive to keep the crew fed, keep the fuel running clean and keep flying free. That has no value when its done at the expense of the crew in question, but it also meant that Mal didn't have a clear reason for living himself, purely for those around him; taking a stand against the Alliance finally reminds Mal of the line he will not allow to be crossed, people he can't stand by and let suffer. Not just his crew, but what they represent: the broken down and outlandish individuals that the Alliance insist need to be fixed.
I love Firefly and Serenity so much. The fact that you did this episode made me so incredibly happy. One part that you cut out was after Mal and the Operative are talking and Mal says they won’t be able to trace him, the Operative says that he and Mal won’t be in the new world the Operative creates because they are monsters. That line always gets me. He is so invested in his cause that he plans to purge himself when his job is done. He is blindly in it though he knows what it has made him.
I became a Serenity nerd long ago. I’ve watched all of it so much I was able to clean house with my earphones in, and KNEW which scenes you were dealing with. This was great storytelling and filming. You guys were awesome, and I love it.
As Uncle Iroh says, "It is important to draw wisdom from many different places. If you take it from only one place, it becomes rigid and stale. Understanding others, the other elements, and the other nations will help you become whole."
Just recently found your stuff and I love it. There is a line from a James Bond book, "stay close to people Bond, they are easier to fight for than ideals" That sums up Mal. His belief is in people. His crew and later everyone else. Now take The Operative, who just had an ideal, after he is shown the truth he has nothing. Though he totally took Books path after this.
Arrival is a great film. Also if you want more Chiwetel Eijofor I highly recommend Kinky Boots. Completely different role for him, but he's really great in it.
14:50 I would argue that the scary thing about the operative is not that he is ready to kill people for what he believes (oddly) it's the fanatism he needs to honestly declare that "secret are not [his] concerns. Keeping them, is" He is so deep in his beliefs that he will not question anything his superiors tell him has to be done, or what should be done to achieve it.
I watched Serenity first, then Firefly. I showed my mom Firefly first. Then we watched Serenity. By halfway through the series, she was saying that Wash was her favorite character. She did NOT see it coming! I slid a handful of kleenex in her hand during the fight between the Reavers and the Alliance.
I also watched in that order. I also was with my mom when she saw Serenity for the first time. She also loved the character Wash. When it came to the part, "I am a leaf on the wind", she turned to me with such anger in her eyes and said, "Why didn't you warn me?!".
Book's story got its own comic issue in the series that aims to close the gaps between the series and the movie: "Serenity Volume 3: The Shepherd's Tale" You should really read it! It does answer some questions about him. :)
Completely agree. It's also even more impressive to see his transformation to Shepherd. And perhaps the reason that he doesn't judge is because he knows first hand that no man is perfect.
I was going to post about it. Gives his character so much more depth. Though in a way the mystery was cool too. You get the understanding without having to pin down the individual sins/path.
I finished Firefly last weekend and watched Serenity at 3am on a work night (which wasn't my wisest choice but was 100% worth it). Your comments about healthy spirituality really clarified something for me that I've been grappling with for the last 6-8 months, so thank you!
Couldn’t feel any better right now. So grateful for the Firefly series and you guys for solidifying all of the beliefs I’ve tried to make sense of over many many years.
Firefly/Serenity still holds up as a masterpiece of greater thematic depth than anything the big studios have done in decades. As time goes on, the themes of perseverance and tenacity in the face of failure and hopelessness, the complexity of the human condition, re-discovering belief and hope in the face of impossible odds -- these things only become *more* relevant with time, not less.
I love the episode Ariel where Mal puts Jane outside the airlock and then effectively quotes the parable of the sleep and the goats, "what you did to one of my crew you did it to me".
Since I first watched Serenity I've always been struck by the contrast between Mal and the Operative on the monkey bar cross beams. The Operative is so obviously the superior physically and yet, when they fight it is literally Mal's past scars that save him. The Operative's signature nerve stab would have paralyzed Mal without his old wound. I was wondering what your take on that would be, but I guess it's not directly related to belief... And yet...
As someone who is not remotely spiritual, it was interesting to see your guys’ take on it as it pertained to Serenity. This movie (and the show, obviously! 😂) are some of my favorites, and I enjoy hearing new peoples’ takes and thoughts on the themes, lessons and characters. Thanks for this channel you two! Keep being awesome!
I'm still horrified by the conversation following the reveal of what happened to those Serenity relied on for sanctuary. Mal declared that killing children was a line he wouldn't cross. The Operative admitted that he didn't have that line and that both of them saw him as a monster for that. He was of the opinion that this is why Mal couldn't beat him, why he shouldn't even try to fight. In his eyes, Mal could only lose. Therefore, his only option should have been to give up, because, "You're not a Reaver, Mal." That comment inspired Mal's plan for crossing Reaver space. It also inspired him to draw Reavers and the Alliance into a battle both had avoided until that moment. Mal might not have been a monster, but he'd play one if necessary. The results shocked the Operative. It's hard to say whether he was trying to manipulate Mal or chastise him when he said, "There are a lot of good men dying up there." Either way suggests that Mal might have crossed a border the Operative wouldn't have dared. Then Mal turned the accusation into irony with, "You have no idea." The Reavers weren't always monsters. Death might have been the only mercy available to them. Dying to ensure that Miranda's secret gets out may have been the closest thing to justice they could have achieved. "You have no idea," acknowledged the humanity taken from them.
My favourite Mal moment is his interaction with the cops at the end of The Train Job. The Sherriff says something about how when someone learns all the details about their situation, they have a choice to make, then Mal responds with "I don't believe he does" I've always loved how he believes that hurting those people isn't even an option. That the ONLY outcome after hearing about their need for medical supplies was to return those supplies
I know it’s not on point for the spirituality conversation, but it KILLS me that you cut of the book/mal scene before Book’s line “no, I don’t.” It shows the growth and self actualization book has gone through since the show in such a simple and powerful way. I think it’s his best line in the movie. Edit: it’s also 3 words that explain why he’s not on the ship any more. He has stopped straddling the line and made an active choice in the life he will lead.
To me, the most important thing you said in this post is that you must always leave room for other ideas to come in. So many people don't/can't do that.
the one thing Mal says that has NEVER left my heart... from TRAIN JOB...when the sheriff catches him trying to make his escape... "you see, a man knows the details of a situation such as ours...well THEN HE HAS A CHOICE" "I don't believe he does..."
The best exchange concerning belief, lost and found, is actually in one of the deleted scenes. th-cam.com/video/TEYLbaw-sPs/w-d-xo.html ***SPOILERS*** Near the end, the final words between the operative and Mal, he asks Mal how he found the will to carry on after losing everything the Battle of Serenity Valley. Mal responds, "You're still standing there when that engine starts, you never will figure it out." In the literal sense, standing there would get him incinerated. Metaphorically, Mal gave him the answer. After losing his faith in God, man, and everything in between, Mal put one foot in front of the other. He went through the motions and kept living until he found something worth living for. To quote Winston Churchill, "If you're going through hell, keep going."
OM gosh, just posted a comment about this. I'll delete it, couldn't remember the scene clearly anyhow, and you had the clip. Thank you. "What a whiner." Oh Mal.
I think part of what Book was trying ro convey to Mal when he said just believe in something was that there is a certain kind of strength and resolve that comes with a genuine belief. A strength and resolve that helps you keep taking just one more step when all you want to do is just quit. He knew the alliance agent was going to have that kind of belief in what he was doing, Mal was going to need something to make him not give up.
Bravo! So sad that I missed the series the first time through, so glad to have found it on DVD. So impressed by the film, and grateful for your discussion. Stay shiny.
This is the 1st time that I have watched one if your videos. But it won't be the last. You guys are pretty good. This was the 1st performance from Chiwitel Ejiofor that I ever saw. He soon became one if my favourite actors. I thought that he should have received an Oscar nomination for his performance as The Operative.
Man when the cello theme kicked on in the background at 1:38 I got tears in my eyes... I love this franchise so much. And am unbelievably excited to find your videos about it.
I have watched firefly and serenity more than any other movie, and I didn't realise why until Alan said it, there's so much movie in this movie that you can watch it 10 times in a row and still find new things and feel the feels when they reveal River has survived, that spike of excitement when they burst out of the cloud with the readers right behind them, the mourning when Book dies and they then have to "decorate" serenity with the bodies of their friends.
I know your channel is for movies, but I sincerely would love to see you talk about individual episodes of "Firefly"! That show had everything, and the richness of each main character (the way Whedon was able to flesh them all out and make them each unique) made it such an enjoyable series! Also, best Shepherd quote ever: "If you take sexual advantage of her, you're going to burn in a very special level of hell. A level they reserve for child molesters and people who talk at the theater."
There's a Firefly episode where River is all excited because she figures out that when people love each other they get married. Therefore, she and Simon will be married. Not a healthy love, and somehow the plot eases her past it.
16:02 when the Operative looked up Mal's service record, and saw "volunteer" he put it together. He pegged Mal as a believer, and an intransigent knight arrant. The name of his ship is a clear sign that he never left Serenity Valley, but rather he still exist there.
One thing about when he says "love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down" is the cut back to river, because love is what kept her going, kept her up when she was falling apart
Yeah. And because of the alliances unethical experiments. Their zombie analogy is accurate. Theyre more of a natural force. All the blame belongs to the alliance.
Oh absolutely! The Reavers are victims too (just look at the episode Bushwacked). The Alliance are the real monsters. But I'm with Jayne...I ain't messing with no Reavers.
"Love is not the only thing you need, but love can sustain you when other things fail." So even if The Beatles were wrong, maybe The Eagles were right? I am SO glad you've done these videos on Firefly, it's literally the best show ever!!!
I saw firefly and Serenity when I was around 16-17 and never really thought about why I loved it so much (except for my love of gangs on adventures), but I think you just provided me with the answer
Mal hate's that he has a conscience and he's so annoyed by that
duel in Shindig
"Mercy is the mark of a great man"
Stabs the guy
"Guess I'm just a good man"
Stabs the guy again
"Well I'm alright"
Yeah that's a pretty spot on assessment
Jonathan here. My favorite Firefly moment.
That he didn't shoot any of the 'pirates' in Out of gas "We can already see that i haven't "
@@CinemaTherapyShow One of my faves too! Browncoats Unite!
Shindig is one of my favourite episodes!
That cupcake dress!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.” -- Capt. Malcolm Reynolds
Might actually be my favorite Malcom Reynolds quote. Second favorite is “You’re on my crew”
Great quote
This along with the entire scene from serity where he talk to the crew about tell the crew he's not running
Firefly is THE example of corporate meddling absolutely killing what should have been a gold standard TV show or movie. Airing episodes out of order, changing timeslots etc. This show, this writer, this cast was lightning in a bottle, and studio meddling killed it 😢
Dollhouse is a close 2nd
I'd say most of Zack Snyder's movies are good examples too.
I gotta admit, part of me is nearly glad. This way, it never had a chance to lose its purity.
@@cristiewentz8586 I do like EU and Asian programs that purposely end after 1-3 seasons. It makes the storytelling better and less soap opera-y
@@timtoe40 I agree. 20 episodes and done
I also love when Mal says that love will tell you she's hurting before she keens. Keening is a mourning cry, and while, yes, colloquially it refers to an animal crying in pain, when a person keens, it's usually a deep emotional pain. And sure, he's talking about a ship, but it can really be applied to people. Loving someone is seeing someone's pain before they really openly mourn and that's beautiful.
I didn't know the meaning of that line. That's gorgeous.
Huh. I always heard it as keel, as in over. But given the anachronistic way joss uses language in the show guess it could be that too. (When was the last time you heard someone use "conjure" in casual conversation?" )Either way, great dialog.
That conversation was also a big love letter to the Browncoat movement that refused to let Firefly die at the hands of Fox.
*Loving someone is seeing someone's pain before they really openly mourn*
Well that's a thought to bring into my fic writing. And reading, for that matter. Paying attention to the ways that characters who are close, or care about the other's welfare, can pick up on internal emotional states without obvious outward signs.
Haha, I can't help myself. Just the very thought of mournful keening takes me back to this AMAZING clip! It's of Robin Williams and Carol Burnett in the improv sketch "The Funeral". See: th-cam.com/video/jfDyTUiL8xs/w-d-xo.html
Talking about the Preacher, I always get the line "The Lord is a bit fuzzy when it comes to kneecaps" in my head.
That man is a joy
It reminded me of the archer priest in 'Dragonheart' who would say 'Thou shalt not kill' before taking out a dude's hamstrings.
I've used that in DnD games more than once. Such a great line!
I love his 'a very special hell' comment to Mal in 'Our Mrs Reynolds'
I've always found him a really interesting character because of the implications that he was an Alliance official of significant standing/reputation (possibly in the intelligence sector, given the continuing deference he's able to command); I don't think it ever came up in the series, but I certainly headcannon that he lost his faith (in the Alliance) during the War of Independence and turned to religious faith to try and make amends. He doesn't judge because he knows he isn't without blame and has no right to cast the first stone.
“No more running, I aim to misbehave.” One of my all time favorite cinema lines. .
Shepherd book once told me, you can't do something smart, do something right.
Mine is, when the Operative asks Mal if he is willing to die for his beliefs,
"Of course that ain't exactly Plan A."
Its so punk 😆 I absolutely love it too!
I like the sentiment but found the line weirdly weak . . .
"You know what your sin is Captain?"
"Aw, hell... I'm a fan of all seven... but right now I'm gonna go with wrath"
I had a pastor growing up that told me to question everything. Faith without questions is fanatical. Questions allow us to grow and evolve
Some of the greatest moments of growth I have had as a Christian was when I was confronted with difficult questions, that forced me to research and think and learn.
So yes, questioning is a big part of growth.
"Faith and reason are the shoes on your feet. You can go farther on both than you can on one alone."
"Leaf on the Wind" gets me choked up every time I hear it, especially out of context
Every time I hear or read it now, I just think of Wash and I am sad.
A friend on discord's handle is Leafwind.
It's always too soon.
Oh, Geez, the first time I saw that scene I screamed full out - not only did it startle the heck out of me, but oohhhh my favorite character by faaaar! Apart from Kaylee, of course. She will always be the most precious little bean.
Also - If anyone was unaware; Parvaati was modeled after her in the game Outer Worlds!
I had a D&D character that uses names like Cloud on the Mountaintop, or Smoking Mirror. I had wanted his name to use Leaf. I had then I guess subconsciously named him Leaf on the Wind. First time I played a session as him, the DM looks at me with a twinkle in his eye and just said "wow". Then it hit me.
@@DarkPhoenixDack125 Tabaxi?
I watched this movie with my dad years ago. When Mal said "maybe that's why we lost", my dad said in the heaviest voice I ever remember him use. "Maybe that's true..." My dad is a veteran of the South African border war. He has seen things, I know of an ambush and anti-panzer mine he lived through. This scene hit me so hard. Dad was this calm, quiet man who clawed a decent living for me, my mom and my sister. Now whenever I watch Firefly or Serenity, I see my dad, the good and broken man who does everything he can just to be a provider.
♥️
My favorite quote by Mal that sums up his morals: You don't know me, son, so let me explain this to you once: If I ever kill you, you'll be awake. You'll be facing me, and you'll be armed.
I love the way Mal pauses and looks at River before he says "better". She, too, is someone the Alliance tried to make "better" who ended up worse off. She's as much a victim as any of the people on Miranda, but she's also represents the people they can still save by stepping up to fight.
I love that moment too, because he's literally talking about how eventually the Alliance will swing back around to the idea they were trying on Miranda, to make people controllable, and as he says that he looks at River, and realizes that they've already tried it again... maybe they never stopped trying it at all.... and Mal can't let that be.
I wanted River to finish that sentence for Mal.
For me, Mal was defined in the second episode with the train heist. (Trying not to spoil too much) At the end they encounter the sheriff and he says something like "When you find out what's being done, a man's got a choice." And Mal responds "I don't think he does." That stamped the character with one line.
This. This so much.
For me, it's that scene which is immediately followed by a scene of him kicking a man who just announced himself as a threat to him and his crew into a turbine and shredding him, that tells me who Mal is too. Honestly I love that those two scenes play within minutes of eachother.
He's a good man at his core, but he'll protect himself and his crew with little hesitation or guilt.
@@coffeeaddict9605 There are many, including myself, who would point that out as a mark of why he IS a good man.
@@selonianth And that's why I named my son "Alec Malcolm."
Alec means "Defender of the people," and Malcolm Reynolds is a man who fiercely protects those whom he loves. He is also a man capable of change--someone who is not finished. So it is a reminder: we are never done in trying to be a better person. That's a lifelong goal.
I believe I recall that the train heist episode was supposed to be the pilot but the network insisted on switching for no reason anyone could explain. It interfered with the audience connecting and understanding the characters.
I like to think that Mal/Book's relationship is about Book giving Malcolm permission to try to be better in spite of his failure, and Mal teaching Book that hiding in peace isn't good enough because implementing morality in practical situations sometimes requires violence(action). And they both learn not to base themselves now on their failures in the past
I've always had the feeling that Book was an agent but had a change of heart when he got the whole story because he is very skilled for a preacher.
@@macberry4048 "Booking Agent" jokes aside, this was always my head canon as well. Apparently the comics make him out as a more common thief but Book being an ex-operative explains more of his hard turn toward atonement, his uncanny skill with guns, and his knowledge of criminals like you said.
"I have a Way? Is that better than a plan?"
@@StormcrowIV Actually Book was a thief turned Brown Coat spy. On behalf of the Independents he joined the Alliance, reported troop movements, would purposely cause his own command to.lose battles or have ships destroyed. While the Alliance couldn't prove he wasn't inept and was doing tbis on purpose he was eventually discharged and he felt so guilty about the lives he took that he joined a monastery until we meet him when he boards Serenity. He found an ease to his guilt and PTSD in God and thats why he often wants Malcolm to believe because he feels renewal in his faith could help Mal.
Sorry guys, but Alan speak wery good in Russian, interesting where his parents/grandparents are from?
Hearing a christian professional acknowledging that types of spirituality can be unhealthy is honestly so healing.
Definitely
Maybe, but he's just peddling the No True Scotsman fallacy, in the form of No True Spiritual.
yeah he nails what the massiv difference is! Belivieing and shutting down all mental capability in its name are two entirely different things and way to often people who are religious are not capable to deffirentiate between the critiquing of the later and the first.
So many criemes and atrocities where commited in the name of god and the curch as an institution covering up for that if they are not activly involved is horrendous!!! That does not mean there are not christions who do speak up and who just found something of tremmendous value for themselfs and others in belief
Religion is one of the single most worst concepts human beings ever created. It has been used to commit some of the worst atrocities known to man.
@@Raison_d-etre The term "Christian" literally means "little Christ", in our language that would be "Christ follower". The man himself said you will know the tree by its fruit.
So, calling someone who doesn't act like Christ a non-Christian isn't a No True Scotsman fallacy, it's a definitional truth. Christians act like Christ, period.
Remember, the issue with all beliefs is that they rely on self reporting. I'd hate to assume atheism is wrong just because Lenin, Stalin, and Mao were atheists...
"Don't just go to the Nazis"
Words to live by, in every context
Kinda funny that he has Darth Vader behind him as he's saying it
I hopped into the comments right as he said that XD
@Moshin Rafsanjani The Empire in Star Wars was in part based on Nazi Germany
@Moshin Rafsanjani Look into the iconography of The Galactic Empire, much of it was based off of the Nazis, especially the uniforms.
And yet, first thing you did, was to go to the Nazis.
Lazy.
Mal: the ultimate snarky combat pragmatist big damn antihero.
And Captain of the "special hell."
But still Lawful Good.
Ain't he just?
He's like a more fleshed-out Han Solo, isn't he?
@@Ramschat nah, Han is like the personification of Chaotic Neutral turns to Chaotic Good.
While Mal is the personification of calling people who think Lawful Good has to be Lawful Stupid: basic.
I love that you spent so much time talking about Mal talking about love at the end. In the first episode of Firefly, at the very end, Simon starts pestering Mal as to why he's in such a bad mood. Roughly paraphrased it's: "We've had all these horrible things happen to us all day, how are you in such a good mood?"
To which Mal replies: "We're still flying."
Simon: "That's not much."
Mal, smiling: "No, but it's enough."
It's such a small comment that can be interpreted in such a big way. Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down -- and sometimes the fact that you're still flying is enough of a miracle in itself that you might as well keep going.
(Being the nerd I am, struggling through the worst depressive episodes of my life while in college when I first started to love the show, I actually got "Still Flying" tattooed on my back. Little comment, big impact).
I hope you're okay now! :)
"You don't know me son, so I'm only gonna say this once: If I ever kill you you'll be awake, you'll be facing me, and you'll be armed."
"Are you always this sentimental?"
"I had a good day..."
I have the same tattoo!
once binged the entire series + Serenity in one day BEST INDEPENDENCE DAY EVER
Browncoats 4Life.
@@CinemaTherapyShow I aim to misbehave....
On a side note just recently found the channel and fascinated
If you good gentlemen have the time The Accountant would be a GREAT case study for dealing with responding to and both Autism and trauma
"The miracle already occured, it occured in me when I became a man of peace" bam right there
Never watched Firefly or Serenity, don’t know anything about it but after watching this I think I found a new series for my bf and I to watch
Make certain that you see it in the correct order, not the aired order. 14 episodes and the movie. After that, there are comic books, roleplaying games, novels, and Reaction videos.
From your username I take it you are a Supernatural fan? You might recognise Kaylee played by Jewel Staite.
Also you clearly like good TV shows, so you're bound to also enjoy Firefly ;)
Be aware that it ends too soon and that will upset you but it’s worth it
Its like first sex,... amazig,... and way too short,...
It's often claimed that left to their own devices, good people will do good and evil people will do evil, but that religion is necessary to force evil people to do good. What often gets left unspoken is religion's ability to make good people do evil.
Hmm. Very compelling thought. I'll think on that. Thanks.
I would agree if we're talking zealotism...if one still has one's free will and isn't brainwashed or coerced into performance, I think faith/religion has it's good points. But oh the evil that's been done in the name of piety...Spanish Inquisition, Residential Schools, colonization pretty much anywhere on the globe through history where it's led to exploitation and oppression of the local population, or eradication of it sometimes.
There is *religion* as a structure or entity and then there is religion as action. True religion would see people aiding, defending, and helping each other. But yes, good people can be warped by circumstance and convinced they are doing good (look at the general German populace with the Nazis) while the reality is so much different. Good and Evil are not passive yet we have come to see Good especially as something passive.
Just saw this and found your comment interesting. My parents taught me that religion is mankind's attempt at understanding God or the universe (something they can't understand) but because religions are created or manifested by men, they can never be infallible. We just have to figure out what we believe and we associate with this religion because it makes the most sense to us.
Faith is what you believe, religion is how you enact that belief.
I spent part of my early childhood in a very narrow-minded and prejudiced church environment that did not want us to question anything but my parents taught us to question everything and think for ourselves. I do not miss the zealotry of that "we're the only ones who can be right" mindset and nowadays I find myself facing the zealots of a new religion. The religion of science.
These new zealots believe "science" is the only answer and can be the only answer and if science doesn't agree with what they want to be true, it gets thrown out and ignored and it's every bit as wrong as the people clinging to the religion of my early childhood. They can't seem to fathom that science is actually never set in stone but always evolving and progressing as we learn and question as any good faith does.
@@sivonni that's not at all how science works. Yes, we're not going to toss out established science based on observation and experimentation for fairy tales and superstition. But if evidence shows something we believed is actually wrong, we switch. That's how science works. Unlike religion which does not - cannot - change, and which is based on nothing.
I aim to misbehave and I swear by my pretty floral bonnet i will end you are my two favorite lines.
I always think of Kaylee talking about her nethers, as when she's wanting to get busy with some man.
@@katmatally How dare you refer to Simon Tam as "Some man"
"How can you shame me in front of new people?" 🤣🤣🤣
"My days of not taking you serious are certainly coming to a middle."
When you said that Mal is irritated that he has a conscience, it made me think of Wolverine and how he puts on a gruff exterior and wants people to believe he doesn't care, but he can't help but care.
You two brought a lot of clarity to everything happening in 2020 through this. Thank you
That's a hell of a compliment. We're humbled. Thank you so much.
Zealots on the left and right, with the jaded and disenfranchized in the middle, but those with love rise above it all and make their way through, scratched, but not destroyed, with a clear vision of where they're going.
@@Dismythed
Clowns to the left of me!
Jokers to the right!
Here I am stuck in the middle with you.
@@Dismythed Excellent way of putting it. Simply excellent.
"Love. Can know all the math in the 'verse but take a boat in the air that you don't love? She'll shake you off just as sure as a turn in the worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down...tell you she's hurtin' 'fore she keens...makes her a home.” my husband and I used this for our wedding. And it still rings true to this day. you can have all the knowledge in the world but if you don't have love or empathy, the knowledge is nothing. Sometimes I forget that but i remind myself that love is there it just did need to be shown.
Book is an amazing character, “the Bible is fuzzy on kneecaps” always kills me, lol. That and the “special hell”, too good!
Love that Alan is wearing his old Fruity Oaty Bars T-shirt for the occasion. Only a Serenity fan would appreciate that (and also want one of those T-shirts for themselves).
I just recently found this channel. As a person diagnosed with PTSD and who suffered for decades with suicidal ideation I say that for me, belief in something greater than myself is the life raft that keeps me from drowning when I'm too tired to swim.
Mal's belief in his crew (family) is such a powerful core element to the show. For example when he lies about sleeping with Zoey to keep Alan Tudyk from dying when they're being tortured. Beautiful
Can’t order me around boy… I’m not part of your crew…
YES YOU ARE
😢
Mal was damaged when the Rebels lost, not just because they lost but because both sides abandoned their wounded and dying in the valley. Zoey will back him forever because he cared and did as much as he could to help his comrades, even when their "leaders" left them. He will never leave them.
Shepherd Book is such an incredible character and from such a confluence of events... a devout Christian, amazingly written by a devout atheist, and beautifully acted by a devout Buddhist.
Those cannibal-rapist-
zombie-pirates-in-space are hands down the scariest thing I have ever encountered on screen (and I don't watch horror films).
The reavers scared me so so bad when I was younger! I watched the show + movie with my parents when I was in school.. lol
I have to warn my husband before I watch it. Reavers are the only things that give me nightmares
I read that capitalist
The first episode where Zoe describes what they do had me SHOOK, and then when we actually see their aftermath in the episode Bushwacked I had to take a whole ass day to process
@@marisp2588 I always skipped that episode. It's too terifying.
Okay, I sometimes watch analyses of movies/shows without having watched the movie/show itself. But, because you guys insisted soo darn much, I paused at the 11:10 mark and watched all of Firefly and Serenity with this tab still open and resumed the video when I was done. Thank you for insisting.
You are most welcome! I feel like we can hang it up now. Mission accomplished.
Welcome, fellow Browncoat.
Welcome, we're glad to have you!
As an atheist who trained to be a pastor it is great to see the juxtaposition of Mal and Shepard it makes my struggle so much more understandable
Were you an atheist when you were training to become a pastor? Or did you become an atheist because you were training to be a pastor? Need to know how that theological egg or the chicken first situation played out,cause it's curious.
@@TheMallachiv really good question I became an atheist from the process of learning pastoral doctrine. That being said I’ve always been skeptical so may have been a doomed start
@@chrishood4285 that makes so much sense man. thanks for answering a random question on a firefly video and I hope you have a great day :)
@@TheMallachiv you as well, thanks for the chat
What career did you change to?
I've always seen Mal as some who was damaged by his inability to protect and save the people and the cause he served in Serenity Valley, so instead he created a smaller Serenity that he could control and he protects and cares for all who enter her.
It's the motivation of The Tiny Kingdom that you see a lot among elementary school teachers. "I can't control much of my own life , but I control everything inside this room."
@hippycat - Teachers make the best care-givers! Some of my greatest memories of being supported and acknowledged came from my teachers.
"I dont care what you believe.
Just believe it"
That line hit SO HARD I feel like Im never gonna get over it
Can we take a moment to appreciate how amazing Zoe is? And the love of Shepard Book that blesses everyone he meets?
I knew I liked you. You're good people.
@@CinemaTherapyShow ❤
In a show/movie overflowing with great writing, "I aim to misbehave" in the context of the story MIGHT be the greatest line ever.
I always liked and appreciated how a guy like Joss Whedon explored the issues of faith, belief, doubt, and spirituality and in ways that I always found to be way more profound than anything done in "christian" cinema that is more preachy than explorative.
Mal is a humanist who puts his faith in the the people around him that he trusts. After Shepherd Book's death and the discovery of Miranda, I think Mal rises to the occasion and re-discovers his spirituality. Or at least enough of it to get him through the day. Thanks for picking this film, its probably my #1 favorite.
The guy that runs out begging, “please take me with you” is none other than Dennis Reynolds of It’s Always Sunny.
I was full on not prepared for I am a leaf on the wind- I watched it at home. No one had spoiled it, I screamed and had to take a break. I still am not over it.
It's been 15 years and I'm still not over it.
@@jdprettynails nope. That one never will be.
Good stuff! I've replied on some of the facebook pages, but I'll say the same here. It was interesting that the Operative had belief at the start of the movie and Mal didn't. By the end of the movie, they switched. Mal had the belief and the Operative lost his. Honestly I never noticed that until this video made me think about it. Quite brilliant story telling actually.
Right! Isn't it cool? We love that switch as well.
Haven't noticed it until this video! Awesome insight!
That's one of the reasons I like Joss Whedon. His works layers have layers (to paraphrase Ironman).
I love what he did in terms of character development with pretty much every character on his shows, but some of my favorites are Spike and Willow (Buffy); Wesley and Fred (Angel); Mal and River (Firefly); Adele and Topher (Dollhouse).
Other topics from a series that might be interesting for this channel: using words as a tool not to have to communicate (and how Hush deals with it) and not speaking about "secrets", that really should be talked about (Once more with feeling).
I'm really looking forward to the Nevers starting. It's been too long since a Joss Whedon show was on the air.
@@snake7197 Sadly, the last bit of this comment didn't age well, but I do agree with a lot you said here. It's a crying shame that Joss let his demons rule him instead of rising up to his better angels.
'i'm a leaf on the wind watch how i soar' is actually what i say when i, a person with constant anxiety, try to navigate straining situations that require some letting go / trusting my body/ the process
I think you guys should talk about Rogue One. I see a lot of Malcolm Reynolds in Jyn Erso, especially when she says "it's not a problem if you don't look up."
I would imagine some dyed-in-the-wool Browncoats were involved in producing and writing that film. Seems so from the quality of it.
The different interpretations of beliefs and morality between Mal and the Operator reminds me of the differences between Val Jean and Javier in Les Miserables. One being compassion and forgiveness and the other being religious law and service.
Ooh yes! I can definitely see that! What a great analogy!
I was actually going to make this observation, but you beat me too it. While the Operative has a very different personality than Javert, they share that absolute, rigid adherence to what they believe. And their roles are very similar.
@@jocelynburrows1482 And they cause about the same damage. I've run into zealots and they make one's life miserable if you try to obey them. Yuck.
The thing is valjon wasn't just compassionate kindness. He was someone trying to get justice for someone who deserved it. Individuals need both. They need balance. Compassion without justice is permitting evil to thrive. Justice without compassion is tyranny. Both are needed conjoined together for life to be good
I just watched Serenity (again) this past weekend. It never fails to entertain and to inspire. I loved this video where they explained some of the lighting and other aspects of the film that I had not considered but which made a lot of sense. Firefly and Serenity - one of the best TV shows ever and a fantastic movie! I'm a Brown Coat and proud of it.
Browncoats for life!
I wonder if one day, they'll manage a *good* [operative word bc if it sucked, NOOO] re-boot after the too-short series and movie. A new generation of the crew ... I'd love it. IF it was good. I miss the sometimes-archaic language, the costumes, the Serenity. And I think many Browncoats might love it, too. It does need some Chinese people on board though.
@@katmatally Well the following makes me feel a little queasy: "According to GiantFreakingRobot, there is a pretty credible source claiming that a Firefly reboot is definitely coming to Disney+. “My source tells me that Disney is in early development on a Firefly reboot. The new show would start the story of Captain Mal Reynolds and his crew aboard the Serenity over from scratch, with an aim to make this a long-running series on Disney+,” the outlet revealed." (this from site Distractify)
I am already cringing.
@@tinselPixie (sadly) NOOOOOOOoooooooooooo...
@@tinselPixie Ohgod, no, not another undead money horse zombie of a brilliant series ... please no.
Funny thing. When I went to Afghanistan, it was Christian. My nickname was Jesus because I was the only believer in my platoon.
When I got back home, I had lost faith, lost God, and lost myself to a severe case of PTSD and nihilism.
Truth is. I never lost my faith... I was just so angry a God for letting the things happen the way they did back in Afghanistan.
In 2017 I went on a pilgrimage on the Camino De Santiago. Last year I gave myself back to God.
It has helped me find peace and a way through the struggle.
Still fighting the battle though. PTSD never gives up. But things are better without nihilism.
I hear you, brother. I had lost my trust in God for a decade, and found my faith again in Iraq. We know that we're not alone in this, right?
I love the scene where River reads the bible and marked everything that contradicted itself or was not logical. And the shepard is just so chill about it. I need to see it again.
"You don't fix faith, River. Faith fixes you."
I've been binge-watching your channel, and came to this video just after watching the one on Aragorn and Toxic Masculinity. I just realized that the scene in which Mal holds dying Shepherd Book is very much alike the one with Aragorn and dying Boromir! I've always seen Mal as a man who is evolving and learning as he goes. He has some strong limiting masculinity traits (specially towards Inara and Kaylee) that slowly break down as the series go. Sometimes I wonder where Firefly characters would end up had they had the chance... oh Fox, you damage my calm.
At the same time, though, I think maybe overall it's a good thing the story was forced to be told in a condensed manner. Seeing all the questionable places ongoing media often end up in in the name of staying ongoing... we're maybe actually lucky that we got Serenity rather than several seasons of Firefly.
One of the things I wish to point out with "The Operative" is that he is actually self aware about his actions to the point, he KNOWS what his higher ups are doing and what he does, maybe not the extent, but he knows to the point of he says he realizes there is no place for him in the place the Alliance is trying to build. He knows that, in the end, there is no place for him in the utopia due to his own laundry list of sins. yes, he needed to see the extent of the sin to realize what he had been doing all those years was wrong, but he knew to an extent what he was doing and who he was doing it for and still did it anyways. He was not completely ignorant of who he was taking orders from.
"...but he knew to an extent what he was doing..." Not to an extent. He is the epitome of "the ends justify the means". He knows exactly what he's doing all along. He's a martyr. The thing is, as it so often is, is that he doesn't have all the information. He's being sold the belief by someone who doesn't believe, by someone who does have all the information - and an ulterior motive. And therein lies the danger of unquestioning belief.
It reminds me of the movie Dogma.
"...He said, "Mankind got it all wrong by takin' a good idea and building a belief structure out of it."
"So you're saying that having beliefs is a bad thing?"
"I just think it's better to have an idea. You can change an idea; changing a belief is trickier. People die for it, people kill for it..."
I think it's less the extent of the sin and more that the "world without sin" that he was striving for isn't worth striving for. His belief is centred around doing anything necessary to create a better world for others (a laudable goal), but the type of better world he is trying to create is not what he thought, and the "end" he uses to justify his "means" is not what he believed in.
This is why I wish they included what the Operative says after Mal asked what happens after he gets his "Better World". He absolutely is a zealot b/c he views the destruction he rains down on others as martyring himself.
"The Operative: I'm not going to live there. There's no place for me there... any more than there is for you. Malcolm... I'm a monster. What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done."
I love how in the commentary of this film they talk about how the operative being in darkness was meant to contrast Mal's standing in the light moment. The operative has lost his faith. He's in darkness now. He has nothing. It's the most obvious reversal, and yet he doesn't get "an end to his story", he doesn't die. It's just nice that they play into tropes without playing into all of the tropes.
Mal and the Operative are such a brilliant pair of Hero/Villain, one of the best I've ever seen. In terms of D&D alignment (though it can be a bit reductive and overly objective in what is Good and Evil), Mal and the Operative are diametric opposites on the scale. However, both are twists on the typical versions of their respective alignments.
Mal is best classified as Chaotic Good, albeit one who tries *very* hard for a long time to bury the Good part of himself and act only in his own selfish interests out of cynicism. However, even broken as he is, the Good will always shine through when he sees the innocent being oppressed and taken advantage of (see: "The Train Job", "Heart of Gold", and his entire relationship with River).
The Operative, in contrast, is a very interesting example of Lawful Evil. In truth, his morality is more in line with Lawful Good, but the atrocities he commits make him undeniably Evil. He says so himself in his "There's no place for me there" speech. He *chooses* to be evil to do things he feels are necessary for the good of all, and to keep the hands of others clean. And that makes him more terrifying than someone who believes their actions are good. He believes he is already damned, so there is no atrocity that he will not commit, nothing that will be going too far in his mind to create the society he imagines.
Ultimately, their conflict boils down to the conflict of the good of the individual vs. the good of the society, which is very much the heart of the conflict between Law and Chaos in D&D. And, in the end, Mal wins the conflict because he shows the Operative a society that is willing to sacrifice the good of the individual cannot be trusted to truly protect the good of the society.
3:04 - *"Belief in a power greater than yourself"* is how a sci-fi writer defined "sentient" in a convention panel on how space explorers can determine if the life forms they meet are just animals or are intelligent, reasoning beings.
I said to my friends, "well, that lets cats out. They believe THEY are the highest life forms!"
Well that makes me an animal I guess.
When the shepherd says I don't care what you believe in just believe it reminds me of this little movie called The Secondhand Lions where he said it doesn't matter if it's true or not there are some things you need to believe in
Man I miss this show so much. It has so much potential. The story is so cool.
Mal values his honor in a world he knows that honor is, many times, an inconvenience. That is a fascinating contradiction.
As a Christian and a Browncoat, this video means so much to me and I appreciate the both of you even more now.
Sheppard Book is my favourite person of faith in all of fiction and I aspire to follow his example. "I don't care what you believe, just believe " is the core of my belief system. I think it's important for everyone to find something to believe in and to respect the beliefs of others. It doesn't have to be God, it can be a person or an ideal or anything. As long as you don't hurt other people in the name of your belief.
Air, water, food, shelter. And Love
Loved the relationships among all the characters. Book and Jayne working out together. Doc and his sister. Kailee and everyone but especially Inara. Wash and his wife.
The irony is, while we see glimpses of Mal's apathy in Firefly, it's always counterbalanced by a strong moral core. A sense of what is right independent of religion, or perhaps a vestige of it.
By the time of Serenity, Shepherd Book has left. Inara has found her own way, and Mal has been left with Jane (who encourages all his worst faults) and Zoe (who can't offer the necessary moral pushback to right his course) as his go two pair on heists. Suddenly Simon and River look a little less like family to him, and a little more of a problem threatening the lives of the rest of his crew; the outsiders. For the first time since the first episode of Firefly, we see Mal willing to shoot the albatross, because that's what living without hope does to you.
The second Inara and Book return to the scene, you can see Mal start to realise the pieces of himself he's been letting fall by the wayside, that Serenity has come to mean anything but for its crew.
Because as much as he may have denied it in the show, Mal was being driven by faith; not in god, but in Serenity as a concept. The drive to keep the crew fed, keep the fuel running clean and keep flying free. That has no value when its done at the expense of the crew in question, but it also meant that Mal didn't have a clear reason for living himself, purely for those around him; taking a stand against the Alliance finally reminds Mal of the line he will not allow to be crossed, people he can't stand by and let suffer.
Not just his crew, but what they represent: the broken down and outlandish individuals that the Alliance insist need to be fixed.
Everyone always underestimates Mal's quickdraw.
I love Firefly and Serenity so much. The fact that you did this episode made me so incredibly happy.
One part that you cut out was after Mal and the Operative are talking and Mal says they won’t be able to trace him, the Operative says that he and Mal won’t be in the new world the Operative creates because they are monsters. That line always gets me. He is so invested in his cause that he plans to purge himself when his job is done. He is blindly in it though he knows what it has made him.
I became a Serenity nerd long ago. I’ve watched all of it so much I was able to clean house with my earphones in, and KNEW which scenes you were dealing with. This was great storytelling and filming. You guys were awesome, and I love it.
The Hot Fuzz scene when they say "The Greater Good" has just converted me into a huge fan. Before, I just enjoyed this station, that got me, though.
It took me far too long to realize Alan was wearing a Fruity Oaty Bar shirt.
As Uncle Iroh says, "It is important to draw wisdom from many different places. If you take it from only one place, it becomes rigid and stale. Understanding others, the other elements, and the other nations will help you become whole."
Just recently found your stuff and I love it.
There is a line from a James Bond book, "stay close to people Bond, they are easier to fight for than ideals"
That sums up Mal. His belief is in people. His crew and later everyone else.
Now take The Operative, who just had an ideal, after he is shown the truth he has nothing. Though he totally took Books path after this.
That last shot of Chiwetel Ejiofor makes me want to rewatch Children of Men and, for some reason, Arrival.
Arrival is a great film. Also if you want more Chiwetel Eijofor I highly recommend Kinky Boots.
Completely different role for him, but he's really great in it.
@@jdprettynails Kinky Boots has been on my to watch list for too many years. Thank you for the reminder!
14:50 I would argue that the scary thing about the operative is not that he is ready to kill people for what he believes (oddly) it's the fanatism he needs to honestly declare that "secret are not [his] concerns. Keeping them, is" He is so deep in his beliefs that he will not question anything his superiors tell him has to be done, or what should be done to achieve it.
I watched Serenity first, then Firefly. I showed my mom Firefly first. Then we watched Serenity. By halfway through the series, she was saying that Wash was her favorite character. She did NOT see it coming! I slid a handful of kleenex in her hand during the fight between the Reavers and the Alliance.
I also watched in that order. I also was with my mom when she saw Serenity for the first time. She also loved the character Wash. When it came to the part, "I am a leaf on the wind", she turned to me with such anger in her eyes and said, "Why didn't you warn me?!".
Book's story got its own comic issue in the series that aims to close the gaps between the series and the movie:
"Serenity Volume 3: The Shepherd's Tale"
You should really read it! It does answer some questions about him. :)
Completely agree. It's also even more impressive to see his transformation to Shepherd. And perhaps the reason that he doesn't judge is because he knows first hand that no man is perfect.
I was going to post about it. Gives his character so much more depth. Though in a way the mystery was cool too. You get the understanding without having to pin down the individual sins/path.
I prefer not to know the specifics. I like the mystery.
But does it? Remember it's Book telling the tale, and he should be considered an unreliable narrator.
I finished Firefly last weekend and watched Serenity at 3am on a work night (which wasn't my wisest choice but was 100% worth it). Your comments about healthy spirituality really clarified something for me that I've been grappling with for the last 6-8 months, so thank you!
Couldn’t feel any better right now. So grateful for the Firefly series and you guys for solidifying all of the beliefs I’ve tried to make sense of over many many years.
So glad we could help you find that clarity! We feel good that you feel good :)
This is so great you guys. Firefly's my favorite show of all time.
That's because you have excellent taste. Thanks for watching! Please tell your fellow Browncoats ;)
Firefly/Serenity still holds up as a masterpiece of greater thematic depth than anything the big studios have done in decades. As time goes on, the themes of perseverance and tenacity in the face of failure and hopelessness, the complexity of the human condition, re-discovering belief and hope in the face of impossible odds -- these things only become *more* relevant with time, not less.
I love the episode Ariel where Mal puts Jane outside the airlock and then effectively quotes the parable of the sleep and the goats, "what you did to one of my crew you did it to me".
Since I first watched Serenity I've always been struck by the contrast between Mal and the Operative on the monkey bar cross beams. The Operative is so obviously the superior physically and yet, when they fight it is literally Mal's past scars that save him. The Operative's signature nerve stab would have paralyzed Mal without his old wound.
I was wondering what your take on that would be, but I guess it's not directly related to belief... And yet...
As someone who is not remotely spiritual, it was interesting to see your guys’ take on it as it pertained to Serenity. This movie (and the show, obviously! 😂) are some of my favorites, and I enjoy hearing new peoples’ takes and thoughts on the themes, lessons and characters. Thanks for this channel you two! Keep being awesome!
I would love to see an updated commentary on these concepts for 2023.
I'm still horrified by the conversation following the reveal of what happened to those Serenity relied on for sanctuary. Mal declared that killing children was a line he wouldn't cross. The Operative admitted that he didn't have that line and that both of them saw him as a monster for that. He was of the opinion that this is why Mal couldn't beat him, why he shouldn't even try to fight. In his eyes, Mal could only lose. Therefore, his only option should have been to give up, because, "You're not a Reaver, Mal."
That comment inspired Mal's plan for crossing Reaver space. It also inspired him to draw Reavers and the Alliance into a battle both had avoided until that moment. Mal might not have been a monster, but he'd play one if necessary.
The results shocked the Operative. It's hard to say whether he was trying to manipulate Mal or chastise him when he said, "There are a lot of good men dying up there." Either way suggests that Mal might have crossed a border the Operative wouldn't have dared. Then Mal turned the accusation into irony with, "You have no idea."
The Reavers weren't always monsters. Death might have been the only mercy available to them. Dying to ensure that Miranda's secret gets out may have been the closest thing to justice they could have achieved. "You have no idea," acknowledged the humanity taken from them.
"I start fighting a war, I guarantee you'll see something new."
My favourite Mal moment is his interaction with the cops at the end of The Train Job. The Sherriff says something about how when someone learns all the details about their situation, they have a choice to make, then Mal responds with "I don't believe he does"
I've always loved how he believes that hurting those people isn't even an option. That the ONLY outcome after hearing about their need for medical supplies was to return those supplies
I know it’s not on point for the spirituality conversation, but it KILLS me that you cut of the book/mal scene before Book’s line “no, I don’t.” It shows the growth and self actualization book has gone through since the show in such a simple and powerful way. I think it’s his best line in the movie. Edit: it’s also 3 words that explain why he’s not on the ship any more. He has stopped straddling the line and made an active choice in the life he will lead.
Good point.
Can i like this 200 times?
To me, the most important thing you said in this post is that you must always leave room for other ideas to come in. So many people don't/can't do that.
"Love is what makes room at the dinner table."
Brilliant! Is that a quote from somewhere? I can't find it with Google.
Just make it one!
the one thing Mal says that has NEVER left my heart... from TRAIN JOB...when the sheriff catches him trying to make his escape...
"you see, a man knows the details of a situation such as ours...well THEN HE HAS A CHOICE"
"I don't believe he does..."
for some people, DOING THE RIGHT THING... *IS NEVER A CHOICE* ..It's a reality, like the sun in the sky or the earth beneath us.
The best exchange concerning belief, lost and found, is actually in one of the deleted scenes.
th-cam.com/video/TEYLbaw-sPs/w-d-xo.html
***SPOILERS***
Near the end, the final words between the operative and Mal, he asks Mal how he found the will to carry on after losing everything the Battle of Serenity Valley. Mal responds, "You're still standing there when that engine starts, you never will figure it out." In the literal sense, standing there would get him incinerated. Metaphorically, Mal gave him the answer. After losing his faith in God, man, and everything in between, Mal put one foot in front of the other. He went through the motions and kept living until he found something worth living for.
To quote Winston Churchill, "If you're going through hell, keep going."
This reminds me of the line from The Message: ""When you can't run anymore, you crawl. When you can't crawl anymore, you find someone to carry you."
OM gosh, just posted a comment about this. I'll delete it, couldn't remember the scene clearly anyhow, and you had the clip. Thank you. "What a whiner." Oh Mal.
I think part of what Book was trying ro convey to Mal when he said just believe in something was that there is a certain kind of strength and resolve that comes with a genuine belief. A strength and resolve that helps you keep taking just one more step when all you want to do is just quit. He knew the alliance agent was going to have that kind of belief in what he was doing, Mal was going to need something to make him not give up.
I think if god wants to make up for 2020, season 2 of Firefly would be the only valid option.
YES!
A sequel to Dr. Horrible would also be nice. Avengers put that on hold, maybe indefinitely.
Ha yes definetly, i don't understand how it didn't happened yet
👏👏👏👏👍👍👍👍 bring it on!
Not the ONLY valid option, but a gorram great one!
Bravo! So sad that I missed the series the first time through, so glad to have found it on DVD. So impressed by the film, and grateful for your discussion. Stay shiny.
This is the 1st time that I have watched one if your videos. But it won't be the last. You guys are pretty good.
This was the 1st performance from Chiwitel Ejiofor that I ever saw. He soon became one if my favourite actors. I thought that he should have received an Oscar nomination for his performance as The Operative.
So understated and creepy in this. Brilliant actor.
Man when the cello theme kicked on in the background at 1:38 I got tears in my eyes... I love this franchise so much. And am unbelievably excited to find your videos about it.
RIGHT?! Browncoats forever!
YES! My new favorite channel.
So glad you're here!
I have watched firefly and serenity more than any other movie, and I didn't realise why until Alan said it, there's so much movie in this movie that you can watch it 10 times in a row and still find new things and feel the feels when they reveal River has survived, that spike of excitement when they burst out of the cloud with the readers right behind them, the mourning when Book dies and they then have to "decorate" serenity with the bodies of their friends.
I know your channel is for movies, but I sincerely would love to see you talk about individual episodes of "Firefly"! That show had everything, and the richness of each main character (the way Whedon was able to flesh them all out and make them each unique) made it such an enjoyable series!
Also, best Shepherd quote ever: "If you take sexual advantage of her, you're going to burn in a very special level of hell. A level they reserve for child molesters and people who talk at the theater."
There's a Firefly episode where River is all excited because she figures out that when people love each other they get married. Therefore, she and Simon will be married. Not a healthy love, and somehow the plot eases her past it.
16:02 when the Operative looked up Mal's service record, and saw "volunteer" he put it together. He pegged Mal as a believer, and an intransigent knight arrant. The name of his ship is a clear sign that he never left Serenity Valley, but rather he still exist there.
Firefly is free on Facebook watch. And they are in order.
One thing about when he says "love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down" is the cut back to river, because love is what kept her going, kept her up when she was falling apart
I feel so bad for the Reavers. I feel like they become that way without choice.
They did become that way without choice. It wasn’t their fault they had such a violent reaction to the pax.
And the Alliance deny their existence.
Yeah. And because of the alliances unethical experiments. Their zombie analogy is accurate. Theyre more of a natural force. All the blame belongs to the alliance.
@@blackc1479 For the suffering they caused all the Reavers and their victims the Alliance leadership deserve to die by fire
Oh absolutely! The Reavers are victims too (just look at the episode Bushwacked). The Alliance are the real monsters.
But I'm with Jayne...I ain't messing with no Reavers.
"Love is not the only thing you need, but love can sustain you when other things fail." So even if The Beatles were wrong, maybe The Eagles were right? I am SO glad you've done these videos on Firefly, it's literally the best show ever!!!
I saw firefly and Serenity when I was around 16-17 and never really thought about why I loved it so much (except for my love of gangs on adventures), but I think you just provided me with the answer
The fact that firefly brought you two together is one of the most wholesome origin story ngl.