The Art Of Bluffing | Commander Clash Podcast 18
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ส.ค. 2024
- Bluffing: how do you do it? When should you do it? What should you do if you suck at bluffing (like me)? We cover all this and more in this podcast!
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Seth is the best liar, Richard is the best at redirecting, Crim has a reputation, which is why Tomer always gets killed first.
Fully agree. The politicing is really apparent when you're not in the game which makes it way more interesting to watch.
"Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak."
-Sun Tzu: The Art of War
Bluffs are especially effective with this group. They will just think of the most powerful card that exists and just assume it’s in the other deck. Don’t even have to really bluff if your opponents psyche themselves out.
They all believe people have the answer before anyone even has to bluff lmao. I don't even think Richard is the best bluffer, he just sandbags until people forget about him, and like Tomer says they are so grudge heavy that unlike any other playgroup he gets away with it.
Seth is so good at bluffing and staying cold faced, that I think he's missing things on board or other things when he's just downplaying it.
Best part is when its his perspective and he says: "I have nothing" and is literally hovering over the *nothing* in his hand over and over.
Richard’s appearance on the Play to Win channel convinced me he’s a stone cold genius with the mind tricks. That play was insane
Hmm, I've never watched that channel or even heard about it. I'm disappointed in the TH-cam algorithm. I'll probably heard over there after this video. Thanks.
tomer starts talking like mickey mouse when he's up to shenanigans.
Let's be honest though - Tomer is always up to SOME shenanigans (but they're always fun/janky shenanigans)
My favorite bluff is probably the Pencil Trick. Your opponent moves to combat, you pick up your pencil like you're going to not block and mark your life, so they attack and you actually trade off or cast settle or whatever.
I did this in top 8 at FNM once and I felt like an absolute criminal. Never did it again.
I think it's excellent to build up a reputation as honorable when playing with a group. It starts off slow but it's an investment that pays dividends. And as far as deals go, always be unafraid to turn down a deal and accept the short term punishment rather than accept a deal that could work very poorly for you.
Tomer gets attacked first because his reactions are the funniest!
Richard doesn't bluff and he doesn't politic. He sits back and watches the other three backstab each other until he's the last one alive.
Hard disagree. Richard masterfully puppeteers them getting them to deal with each other. He’s kinda like a Thantis, the Warweaver deck without anyone being forced to; he just spurs them to cut each other up.
Just observe when someone talk about Richard board... He will start the politic
Nah, Richard's just more subtle than everyone else. He's good
I don't think Richard's style of being quiet and setting up defenses can be called "bluffing". I use the same strategy, and while I'm usually the archenemy at the table, sitting back allows you to analyze the best lines and maintain control of your board. Seth definitely has the best poker face the last few seasons, but I miss the "Can I win this turn?"
Seth is the best at bluffing. Richard is the best at politics.
Richard also has the most skill then crim tournament wise.
Gotta love a good 2 blue open with only islands in hand
Lose focus and abjure is better than counterspell anyhoo
Always a joy to see a new commander podcast episode!
I think a big part of bluffing is deck building and reputation. If Crim sits there with open mana it is a lot more likely that he has an answer in hand than if Tomer sat there in the same seat. I am pretty sure if Crim build the deck for Tomer to play his "bluff" could be only "remember Crim build this deck" and suddenly everyone is more weary of his open mana.
Tomer is so intense describing the Dralnu game that his wall is cracking behind his head.
Richard doesn't have to bluff much. He's a very good player so when he does bluff it has a big impact. Usually Richard is just outplaying everyone else.
That's why he is the anime protagonist of commander clash
Kardur is my favorite creature to tutor with Sisay. I like to say "Welcome to the Thunder Dome!" just before I place him on the table.
To me a bluff is saying what you can do and a deal is saying what you will do. For example saying I can remove your creature if you attack me, vs I will remove your creature if you attack me. It is a bit rules lawyering, and splitting hairs a bit but I think the distinction is useful at a table. It is choosing how to share information (truthfully or not). I typically will not lie on a deal, but will often lie on a bluff.
You want bluff's to generate positive value in the current game, without generating negative value in future ones
For a moment Iread it as "the art of bullying" and I thought "that's mean"
i like to sit around third place in board state. my group will always say kill him first and for the first couple of turns i will get focused down. however since i like to sit in third they'll eventually de-aggro me because these threatening board states are starting to saw aggro. then after they've beat on each other a bit and gotten rid of answers and used resources i'll have an explosive combo turn and win.
There was one time, no joke, when one of my opponents said “we don’t negotiate with terrorists!” and all political cards were useless for the rest of the game
Oh god. I play with one of those. Those people are obnoxious.
Something that works at my LGS to this day that ive been doing for nearly 4 years now: "In response, show me your hand." AND THEY SHOW ME THEIR WHOLE HAND. You would be shocked how many people in the moment panic and just do it.
Memes aside though, I do not see an issue with deception if you are trying to win the game you sat down to play. Why would you willingly give away information for no reason? Information is stronger than cards sometimes, as it costs nothing and can gain you everything.
I was in a game awhile back where nobody paid much attention to a Gishath, Sun’s Avatar player (myself included) because he either said nothing, or was so soft spoken that he didn’t make much of an impact on anyone good or bad. Iirc I think he just ramped and tossed out a few Dino’s 😂…He came out like Tom Brady in the second half, won the game, and we all agreed afterward that everyone had forgotten he existed the entire game…
Who is Me? I only see Tomer.
Who is you?
@@MTGGoldfishCommander Who am I?
Asking how your mates are doing at the start is good for us listeners to get into the podcast
as for being the anti-bluffer the best way is to smash people. My Tovolar deck is for when I'm tired of the playgroup worrying about comboing first, politics, or arch enemy. i play the fast combat deck to keep them honest :)
If you have black in your deck mainly mono black, you can say "I can remove that easy if you attack me" for free
The problem with bluffing in magic is the same as bluffing in poker.... The person on the other end of the bluff has to pay enough attn to realize what you are trying to represent often in my games even in cedh pods no one looks past their own plays other than to make sure they have counterspell protection
I did an 'Oops' when I did an 'unfavorable' attack and immediately cast a battle trick and blew them out 🤣
In the 15+ years I've been playing magic, I have never heard anyone call combat tricks "battle tricks." Keep being you, friend! ❤️
@@RumpledNutskin I legitimately forgot the term and thought "yeah this sounds right" XD
I love doing what Crim does. I actually started cutting removal for ramp because my reputation for removal was more effective than the cards themselves.
I just leave up 1WB all game and everyone assumes I have Anguished Unmaking. It's like a nuclear weapon- more effective when it's not being used!
It's funny that bluffing can factor into your deck construction.
I'm not a great bluffer, but I do try to run a politics deck, which tries to sneak in 'mono-hug' effects, because I think it's dirty to hug multiple opponents or something. In truth though, you get to derive potential benefits from deals if you choose who gets what benefit, so that's nice. If you drop a Howling Mine, everyone wins equally, but if you drop a Flumph, you can choose who gets cards. Advocates are amazing cards in Commander, I think these are hilariously underplayed.
Everyone at the table assumes you have combos Tomer, might as well play into it and figure out how to actually win with those combos. I recommend playing some Jhoira of the Ghitu and focusing on the 3-4 turns before your combo hits the board.
39:45
Richard: "Tomer reacts to the egging-on. So then it's more fun to keep pushing his buttons"
Tomer: "Aahhhh!"
😄😄
I spent the better part of two years always telling the truth on commander 100% of the time, which got me the reputation in my group of always making good on my threats. But, now I can bluff to my hearts content and everyone always believes me. The trick has always been to not get in a position where you can get caught so you keep your reputation
I think it'd be cool to have a 'silent' Commander Clash where y'all don't communicate for one episode. You just have audio from one vantage for the channel (or release all 4 vantages) and see how it changes the group play for a game
I had my most powerful game of commander today.
I dropped a Bolas’ Citadel on the board turn 5 then immediately spiked a necropotence off the top so lands couldn’t get in the way of the citadel, sculpted my hand and board, drained myself to 7 life from 40 placed a nircana revenant on the board then next turn I cast Torrment of Heilfire for X=15
People always think Crim has answers but it's always Richard who has it in hand but has a perfect poker face
I think that’s some thing that your playgroup would benefit from his understanding that not every decision has to be political. Tomer and Seth often make simple choices like “who will let me swing for two?” Into a large political finagling. If you’re going to make a deal, it should be for something important, not little things. Also, I’m pretty sure it doesn’t count as a deal unless you specify that you’re making a deal. Unless you hear the words “let’s make a deal” everything is artificial and no longer binding
My philosophy is make them have it. Everytime you don't do something because they might have it you essentially give them a free copy of it.
In multiplayer though someone else might make them have it before too long, then you can be more likely to get your thing through.
Never tell your playgroup about cards you cut from a deck they are familiar with. My group plays against one of my favorite decks as though I were still running fog effects.
I suck at bluffing so I always play 12 to 15 targeted instant removal. I only use it when they swing at me. I always just say it fine as long as you don't swing at me. It how I manipulate my playgroup. I always try and save board wipes when it down one on one or if I can win the game next turn while creature are summoning sick/ I want the other players to use their mana to play board present so I can combo.
I love this channel, keep up the great work!
Playing both mtg and hearthstone is kind of weird at the moment, because some parts of both communities are panicking about something happening for the first time in their respective games, but has been a thing in the other game for a while without major issues.
Hearthstone banned a card for the first time during the last expansion, and just recently banned another card (to be clear, both of these bans were very much deserved). I'm seeing a not insignificant amount of people saying that this is a terrible thing, and will inevitably be the downfall of the game, which is so weird when you look at mtg, where even the most casual formats like edh have banlists. While we might disagree about what should or shouldn't be on the banlists, i think we can all agree that the existence of it hasn't killed the game.
And then there's the whole "bluffing with emotes" thing, which has been a thing in hearthstone since the beginning of the game.
I think those differences are explained by digital card game vs paper card game that is now also digital. Banlists are common place in paper card games, but with hearthstone being one of the very few popular digital card games, the first digital ban is kinda of a big deal
It's surprising how many people people fall for the settle the wreckage gg combo. I'm always cautious about it. Ixalan standard traumatized me lol
For some reason I thought the conversation was going to center around "punt or bluff".
I don't think Tomer is that bad at bluffing. He's just played with the same people for so long that they know his tells. And since all those games are on the TH-cam, the viewers do get a sense of his thought process in-game.
I will agree that Richard is the master bluffer in your group as he always manages to convince you he's got nothing and then wins. Seth has the best poker face of the group.
And Crim. Crim isn't a good bluffer but sometimes he's so bad that he's good as you all convince yourselves he's got something but, as he pointed out, even when he has something, he'll commit so much to his bluff that he doesn't have anything that he'll die with his answers in hand rather than play to his outs.
Interesting subject!
I cannot find the Commander Clash episode they are talking about. With the lich shenanigans.
I won't lie about public information, I won't break agreements even if it costs me the game, but I will lie my ass off about what's in my hand and deck. If it's private information I will lie all day about it 🤣
There is a skill in getting others to use their removal instead of using your own.
You guys should try to do a mute commander game then add voice over the game with all your thought process to see how much it changes your gameplay.
One time I bluffed that I had swan song then later drew swan song later in the turn rotation
Deffo had that happen more times than I expected. I've had one person accuse me of being psychic : D
Richard out here with the 5000IQ strats
Richard and crim have abnormally high politics and game skill, seth also known as saffron olive and tomer are good at bluffing but terrible at politics toner is more of a learning johney which is significantly better than being good at politics, skill, or bluffing because you have the new player vibe and most playgroups (not this one) will ignore all players with that vibe for the whole game until they win out fo nowhere.
I think Tomer's problem is playing way to threatening of decks without having the finisher ready or proper defences set up. He always seems so.... convenient to kill
Absoposilutly he doesn't always know when it's safe to punch away.
Never break a deal. Lose the game before you break a deal.
Played a draft with a guy were we both bluffed responses with one card in hand. And turned out we both had lands. We became friends after that
Tomer maybe not executing his combo that often but every damn week in the after talk he ended his deck description with :"By the way my secondary win condition was combo XYZ" Thats maybe the reason people think he plays combo. When you play a combo in every single week.
Sounds mean, but man, I wish we had a guy like Tomer in our play group. He just seems fun to pick on 😂
There's no such thing as a deal in Commander that makes you die. The worst that can happen is you lose the game (and your ante, if you Rule zeroed that in.) If you want to make deals and get bailed out when things go south, become an investment banker. Sticking to the rules you agreed to is what makes it a game. And you'd be surprised how often people will release you from your deal to make the game keep going.
Everyones playing Go Fish while Richard is playing Poker
Someone please link the dralnu video its too hilarious XD
I love the thumbnail
I think a no politic game all game face would be interesting from this group.
We need a dark triad Seth arc.
Bluffs leave the possibility you might have something, lies are saying you dont when you do
Tomer says he doesn't have combos but at the end of the game he almost always talks about a combo he had in his deck
wait, the plants ..... Tomer has been bluffing they have been still alive.
Tomer! Where's the Dralnu link? You must clear your name!
Also, I love how every video with the four of you ends up 3 vs Tomer. Even if cardboard isn't directly involved.
Can it be this? th-cam.com/video/F9NJVoFZoJo/w-d-xo.html
Not to disrespect you, but I think all of you are terrible bluffers, and it's not a bad think, that bring entertainment to our screens.
You guys literally talked about how Richard bluffs by playing down his board state and showing his bad cards in the first podcast episode lol. Some things never change
I think they over-value Richards bluffs and politics. I think Richard is just..really good at magic.
Richard always picks joke commanders and spends the whole game minimising his stuff while making everyone else seem like a massive threat then mops up at the end.
Do you guys see each other during the games? Like have a discord video call or is it just audio?
We're in Zoom with webcams turned on yeah.
Eye contact makes a lot of difference when we're bluffing! That's why I asked ;)
Bluff Rank: Seth #1, Richard #2, Tomer #3, & Crim #4 because no one trusts the control player lol
lol seth, its the face and beard, he looks like gandolf the friend so you believe everything he says
You mean the man with the strict parents is the best liar/bluffer? I never would've guessed😋
Friends
Crim, all we have to do is watch Crim. He plays yall so badly sometimes.
Who's the new guy in bottom left?
play howling mine fairly and let immunity to all suggestion wash over you
lets bluff 🤓
I like how they all are telling each other their tells, let's see how the games change going forward!
LOL just reading the titel - no one of you is bluffing xD always telling what you got - well richard can hide his plays but is not bluffing - the only one whos not predictable is crim but not cuz hes bluffing only because hes unreasonable
Best way to be unpredictable is to be clinically insane
Love the podcast but when y’all laugh, in editing turn the volume down. Holy Moly my ears start to bleed
What is that thumbnail
Unfortunately the direction YT pushes you to maximize views. It’s disgusting but this excessively facial reaction with bright colors gets the clicks. I can’t blame Goldfish for using what YT pushes them to do to succeed.
People who arent ok with broken promise's never played diplomacy lmao. Not saying I do all the time (I agree that there is long time consequences to lying). But once in a while to "steal" a game it's fine.
Learn poker to be a better bluffer.
Maybe WotC needs to stop giving blue and black near infinite amounts of game-ending instant speed interaction so that they have to use their mana on their turn
"GAME-ENDING INSTANT SPEED INTERACTION" The Interaction: Destroy a creature
Ur all pretty terrible lol