Our Favorite Political Cards | Commander Clash Podcast #21
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- The crew discuss their favorite political cards in Commander.
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first time viewer, and I must say Richard going “This is all hypothetical, I never seen you run any of these monarch cards,” was chef’s kiss
I've seen crim and Seth and guests run them on theme weeks but not on a normal play day
I feel like every week people talk about their card recommendations Richard is the only one who actually mentions cards he plays
Guided Passage is my favorite political card. You spot the player at the table who needs to remove someone, and then say "you, fetch three cards for me, if you make sure that two of them are x and y, you can pick z and I'll play it to deal with that thing you need removed."
I love how Richard tells them his secrets to winning more than them and everyone is like wow he's so wrong
Shhh this is why Richard still wins every week don't point out their hubris!
Yeah Richard is head and shoulders above the rest of the crew as far a play skill. The best part is that he tells them flat out how to play better and they all laugh
Everyone started presenting cards and it was straight up secret rendezvous or worse
I love how he’s the only one who seems to actually consistently play with the cards he talks about and gives S’s to and stuff lol. Everyone always talks about these cards that they supposedly love and Richards like “…You guys never actually play with any Courts or anything.”
Yup, I have issues with each of them but Richard does put his mana where his mouth is, and I respect that.
It’s funny how Tomer plays the tough guy with the curse of opulence when he’s the king of tilt when he’s the one targeted with such things 🤣
This coment is 2 years old and still holds true. Richard said it a ways back, play the players not the game!
I love Fractured Identity. My play would be " I will give everyone Rhystic study if you only ask the original owner if he wants to pay for that."
The discussion on lethal vapors does completely grasp the whole problem with Mogis in general. It's not strong enough to actually win, but it makes people hate you.
My favorite play I did with scheming symmetry was allow the combo player to tutor for the piece he needed, specifically so he wouldn't counter. The other players were like "but he'll win in his next turn"
"Don't worry, he went get a next turn. " then drew my card with an effect on board and combo'd off first
Tomer: "We don't hold grudges..."
Me: o.O
Well look at that
So, after listening to this podcast I really want to see a commander clash episode that is all players on 5c politics. Similar to slivers week. Feels like it'd be broken and a blast when everyone is tempting for discovery and coveted jeweling.
4 Kenrith decks, then, where each person has to Kenrith to benefit another opponent at least once?
The problems that sometimes they make every attack a political thing, or an opportunity to politic. I really enjoy watching them, but I don't think their politics game is strong whatsoever.
Kenrith can be a lot of political fun.
Thank you Richard for calling them out on their supposed picks that they don’t use.
What a relief
Activate Pulsemage Advocate in someone's end step and see them discard the cards given to them.
I used to be down on secret rendezvous, until someone pointed out that it's less card disadvantage than a wheel in a four player game
If it was a 1 or 2 drop, and instant speed, I'd say it was decent. At sorcery speed, you just add gas to an opponent and most likely can't take advantage of your new cards. Also, you're in white, so you might even have to discard down.
However, if it was 2 mana, and you could play it at the end step right before your turn, you could then take advantage of those cards and theoretically make someone discard down.
@@casteanpreswyn7528 "You're in white, so you may just have to discard down"
If you have 6 cards in hand already, just play another of your cards.
The only wheel I use regularly in commander is Memory Jar for that reason lol
40:30 sounded like "a salt suit" if you don't see the card haha
1:07:40
On. Point.
Thank you Seth, good laugh!
Demonstrate is my favorite political mechanic
Lethal Vapors + Cruel Entertainment/Worst Fears crim, try it sometime, you wont be sorry. Your opponent however, will.
You force the target to make a decision: Skip your next TWO turns (you get the next turn after the skipped one no matter what) OR never play magic again for the rest of the game.
Richard definitely sold me on coveted jewel
Druid of Purification is just super expensive. lol
This whole episode is upping the average for Kynaios.
Good job on a very quick pace! No overly long discussions or even intros. It's easy to lose yourself in actually pointless squabbles. Very nice moderation. Well done.
In assault suit we can see the precursor to the horror that is Slicer
Victory Chimes is the answer to Rhystic Study
My favorite political card is Phage; you put her in play give her haste and unblockable, look at someone who has lethal on you then say “hey if I choose to not kill you right now will you choose to not kill me next turn?”
If they agree, great! take out one of the other two, if they don’t, well they’ve made their bed, time to lie in it.
So my favorite political card is a hostage situation I guess.
I also run Lethal Vapors in my decks... hmm am I the bad guy? Nah no way the monoblack player is the bad guy.
Arcane Denial can counter your own Opt or something.
Crazy list. I litterraly notice half of this cards to buy them
I thoroughly enjoyed the flow of this episode specifocally. Everyone seemed in a good mood, joking around, but still staying on point without losing themselves in banter, forgetting the topic.
Precisely the commander spirit. :)
Wonder how they’d cost a Secret Rendezvous style card that said “Each opponent draws a card. You draw a card for each opponent that drew a card from [card name].”
Maybe XW where X is the number of opponents? At best it’s a 4-mana draw 3 with each opponent drawing one, so it scales better later. It’s still fair since it’s card for card the exact same as Rendezvous at its most potent, but far less likely to hose you late game.
That card is in balders gate except it's cheaper as it's just 2w for that effect. I honestly think it's worse as the ability to give the cards to a potential ally makes the downside controllable. And even in the worst case where you need to make the other person draw in 1v1 at least it lets you dig 2 cards deeper instead of cycle one for each player
Curse of echoes on you + fractured identity.
Your welcome :D
lets learn to resolve the stack on easy mode.
Lethal Vapors + Avacyn = Lethal Vapor's 'Destroy Lethal Vapors' ability now does nothing^^
It sounds like Tomer doesn't know you can choose different opponents for the offering cycle. The opponent you give 3 cards to doesn't have to be (and shouldnt) also be the opponent you let untap.
This means you could use volcanic to play opponents off of each other by letting one opponent kill a threatening creature and letting that creatures controller choose the other land to blow up.
Basically these cards are awesome for politics and value.
Completely agree with Richard on the Curses. And honestly especially the cheaper ones because like this can kinda make you the target turn one before your deck has done anything. Before people know that you’ve been mana screwed before your deck can be judged threat level wise etc. it’s honestly just garbage game design and it’s similar to total player elimination in other board/card games. It’s awful feeling and your goals at the table should be for everyone to have fun.
All this said great choices. Even that one from the person whose played it’s perspective I can understand. Keep up the amazing work MTG Goldfish
Honestly would love two headed giant phil/tomer vs seth/richard pls make it happen
54:40 the floor is each of your opponents agree to get a stripmine.
I've gotten a cascade of "no" every time I've played Tempt with Discovery. :(
Tomer seems fun to play with. Not sure those other players are.
Plus mage advocate is fire
No Pheldagriff?
Secret Rendezvous is one of my favorites in white. It’s such a good bribe and card draw in mono white and Boros. It’s definitely saved me a few times
never heard of of tempt with discovery. it's going straight into my omneth deck. haha
bitter feud + Pramikon
Head games is a fun semipolitical pet card of mine.
I have a Ben Carson trading card from 2016. Great political card, and great token ;)
The cleric is great if you are going to combo off
My favourite political card is Expropriate
Commander Clash Politics 101
Step 1 Richard plays Coveted Jewel
Step 2 Sit back and watch Seth fights anyone for the Jewel
Step 3 Profit
I feel like Victory Chimes doesn’t see enough play
I agree. Victory Chimes also helps lessen the effects of a Rhystic study on the table.
Okay, hear me out. Play Lethal Vapors and then fracture identity your own Lethal vapors. Then all of the opponents have to get rid of there own.
Or skip their turn
No one mentioned cruel entertainment? It’s just so funny.
Wow, there are a lot of powerful cards I haven't heard of, even through EDHRec.
Scryfall sort my least played on edhrec there is plenty of beautiful gems on there
I usually give the person who gets mana screwed or flooded the politic cards but if they play something wild then you gotta go
Play lethal vapors in your Ghen deck. Darksteel mutation your best creature, wipe the board, play lethal vapors, sac DM to ghen and then return lethal vapors and continue swinging with your best beater
That's very beautiful thank you
Every time I played councils judgement the table realized they could all pick something of mine and that would always be the only thing exiled.
Worst. Card.
They can't choose something you control if you cast it.
Court of Cunning, you can just mill yourself. You can have a strategy around that if you aren't a Mill deck.
Yep, it's in my Araumi deck for that purpose
So, Richard is clearly the Spike. But Seth is probably a Spike/Johnny, Crim is a 8 time FNM attendee and definitely more of a hearthstone player, and Tommer is the defacto Timmy. Sorry Tommer. Don't play slicer😜
One of my secret techs for mono red is loreseeker’s stone. I have mainly one drops so ill cast them all, pay 3 mana and then draw 3 cards. Its very underrated imo.
I run it in low to the ground Cmc and mono white ramp decks
My roommate actually casted Fractured Identity on my Rhystic Study before and it was the single most hilarious and annoying game I've ever played.
agreed with richard about curse of opulence. I’ve been targeted by curse of opulence like 3 times on turn 1 and it always feels like i’ve been made into the archenemy without doing anything, and end up dying much earlier than everyone else
Minor correction on Humble Defector; it's not Sorcery speed, it's just "during your turn." Makes a pretty big difference when you're lining up that Blasphemous Act
Humble Defector with Yasova.
The only time I have ever seen Fractured Identity it has either been used as a combo piece or someone uses it as "removal" and immeadiately gets destroyed by the other opponents they just gave free stuff. I had someone use this on my Mirari's Wake once and then another opponent used their double mana to kill the table before the Fractured player got another turn.
I just use it in group hug decks to force everyone to cast their spells for free. The only other time I've seen fractured identity used is with phage and in timers zedruu deck to give everyone a blightsteel or Eldrazi.
My local meta has learned to never take the tempting offers hahaha. I’ve been taught to always say no and convince others to not, unless your tutor wastelands to kill the tempt with discovery lands
I usually tutor out ghost quarter (unusual but I usually have it turn 4 on a top deck) dust bowl or thespians stage
I grab my strip mine every time
If y’all like cards that the table interacts with, why don’t y’all like Rhystic study/mystic remora/esper sentinel?
Wizards design has specifically called out the multiplayer curses as a mistake, mostly because it doesn't lead to politics. It leads to dogpiling the weakest player.
I still really enjoy playing my curse of opulence.
Same! :D
It's not good design, but boy sometimes I still wanna run it. :D
One card I've been able to use to get massive amount of favors from players over the years, is Spectral Searchlight.
The power of being able to give a manascrewed player the single mana they need to get going, in return for future favors has actually won me many games.
Victory Chimes really shines in deck that have a commander with an activated ability, or a lot of instant speed plays, because then it starts to be a net positive mana rock and you can justify not giving the mana to your opponents for free because you're actually using it!
So many Zedruu cards :)
Normally in my playgroup when someone plays a bomb or a gamewinning card, they are well aware of it's impact on the game and already accept beforhand that if possible, everybody will remove it. So in that regard, Arcane Denial is a way to lower salt levels even more, thus for me being political in the way of "calming the tides", stopping a feud to develop right away. Like, they are actually happy then that, if it had to be removed right away anyway, at least they drew cards out of it, so no hard feelings
Still would argue it's not a political card in the way they defined it - it's a politically savvy card, but so is a deathtouch blocker!
I do agree though about the effect the card has
Warning: Long Post
Court of Cunning is great with Solitary Confinement, both of which can be found by Zur. It probably counts as a casual deck since it's so slow to actually win. As for the best Court, I still like the Green one everyone used to be so hot on, Green can really benefit from free creatures, it has very good creatures. It likely has the highest ceiling, but even just putting a bonus land into play is nice as long as you're not running it in a low land count deck.
Coveted Jewel is sneaking it's way into my heart. It's floor is pretty high as long as the game is reasonably casual. In casual they won't be hitting cEDH level cards very often, and might not have a use for the extra mana, while you run it in a deck that likes having the extra resources.
Curses can be political, IE do this thing for me or I'll 'exert some influence' on you, which is technically pretty political. I think they can be brutal, but being specifically vs 1 player is just, as Tomer notes, super petty/vindictive.
As political cards, I really like the advocate cards. Putting cards back into hand is potentially quite massive, as is their effect generally. They are almost too good if you have an ally, just two big upsides at the cost of tapping a usually cheap creature. I also like any 'on a stick' effects for political use, things like counters and removal can hinder people. Stronghold Machinist/Biologist are both really neat effects that can help someone other than you potentially. War Tax and War Cadence are hilariously useful if you need to remove a player or protect someone. You can also offer to not pay into War Tax if someone agrees to attack who you want, because it's easy to tax someone until they can't swing, it's not a flat tax like Propaganda, and you can tax anyone's turn, great in an Arch Enemy scenario.
Intellectual Offering is best in Green, because you might have MANA DORKS. What deck has more than 2-3 mana in rocks regularly? I feel like none of my decks have that atm. But anyways, you need to have at least 5 mana to make that remotely worth it in Blue, where drawing 3 usually costs 4 with no drawbacks/complications. Paying 5 in Blue to draw 3, let someone else draw 3, and untap a bunch of rocks/creatures seems like it would rarely be a good idea, but I will admit it is a large and quite political effect. You can also allow someone before you in turn order to swing at a common enemy and Offering can untap the creatures.
What people aren't seeming to realize is that it's pretty close to 4 mana to fetch a non-basic with no restrictions, 5 to fetch 2 with a small upside. It's a really strong effect in some decks, where you really care about a land or 2 being out (IE Lotus Field, or a bounce land) and can combo of with it to win on the spot. What I'm saying though is that even if nobody will take you up, it's not a terrible effect at 4 mana for 1. It's comparable to Reap and Sow or Pir's Whim, the going rate isn't actually 3 to fetch a land. Expedition Map tutors for 1 land for 3 mana if you didn't realize.
Pulsemage is good, but I'm actually trying out Spurnmage Advocate in Eternal formats, because that is a brutal kick in the nuts to some decks, it's actually a tap for a huge effect, because they like keeping cards in their graveyard and need to attack to win. Rule of Law can prevent them from replaying those spells if they are cheap, and Archon of Emeria/Big Thalia can make giving someone back a fetch just insulting. it's not great in every match, but where it works it's one of the best white cards I've ever seen. Meanwhile your Archon is swinging away unblocked in the air, and anything else can swing with Mother of Runes to protect them. Advocates are bonkers good cards if your playgroup will play politics, or if your opponent needs cards in the yard (in Commander, lots of decks hate having stuff put back into hand). They are all Green or White IIRC, but they are pretty pushed in power level sometimes.
Shadrix likes Generous Patron obviously, quite a bit, but watch out you don't deck yourself vs a token deck. Nothing like giving a board full of weenies a small buff to draw 5-10 cards, and can keep doing so until the board is wiped possibly.
Varragoth is a really fun card potentially, prying an effect out of someone else's deck and having them pay to cast it is nice. I run it in Meren, there it doesn't matter if someone kills it, I just reanimate it. It's got deathtouch, which is super-annoying, both offensively and defensively. It's more relevant to tutor with vs Demonic Tutor in a deck like Meren, where I can derive a lot of value out of the body. Varragoth is a bit slower than Sidisi in some situations, but by coming out earlier and not costing you a body/dying on the spot you can derive some value.
I'd play Secret Rendezvous over Intellectual Offering everytime
I think that Curse of Opulence really only works in groups of people with terrible threat assessment where people are willing to overlook often correct play in order to get a gold token and ramp the person casting the curse. Realistically all you are doing is pushing one person behind and another ahead every time you attack.
Where is Crim looking? Pondering? Thought scouring how he can make a claim that Narsett wheel is a political move
I have a Shadrix deck thats all about giving tokens to your opponents and killing them for value (whenever a creature [an opponent controls] dies...) with global -1/-1 effects, with a Voltron subtheme (there are 3 auras and 1 equipment that give the enchanted creature +1/+1 counters when another creature dies, and Shadrix has double strike)
Every single time you guys mentioned a card being expensive I think I shouldn't bother with the card and then you guys say that it's $13 LOL and I'll go buy 3
we often give the first person who deals combat dmg to a player the monarch in our play group cause we love the mechanic so much.
I actually love the Advocate cycle of creatures. I run the Pulsemage in my Gwafa group hug deck as a way to instant speed reanimate Thassa’s Oracle if I have to. Nullmage Advocate as repeatable removal on a stick is also really good.
I've been in a game where Yarok got hit with a Fractured Identity and after that, I realized how fun it was for commander
Thank goodness
I'm not sure how Monarch is a political tool? Everyone is just trying to attack the Monarch, and there's no need for negotiation or bargaining?
I dream at night of the moment Richard is gonna say the Clash On
You can tell how long Seth has been playing 60-card, 1v1 formats by how fundamentally revolted he is at the idea of giving your opponents any cards in hand ever.
Unless you are taking advantage of wheels, or are in grouphug, you should never give your opponents more power than yourself.
Seth, just so you know, there is a whole math breakdown on how arcane denial is actually the best value counter spell in commander. The tldr is that normal counter spell puts you and the opponent you countered down one card, aka 2 cards down, but arcane denial puts your opponent you countered up one card, aka only down 1 card.
The math fails to account for the fact that letting them dig two cards to cantrip is not even. It’s similar to the math behind Stripmine v Field of Ruin. It’s better to not accelerate everyone even if the final result is you and the hit player are 1 land behind the parity pre the land destruction. Arcane Denial is a holdout players refuse to drop despite being emphatically awful.
@@ms.sysbit5511 and that math fails to account for the card quality involved in both decks. If you're using Arcane Denial on their main combo piece or bomb, it's less problematic that you gave your opponent the one card to replace it.
@@josephhawkins7974 as opposed to just running a counterspell that doesn’t let them dig? Giving the opponent two more cards because you cantrip does not make for good math. It’s better to be down a card (standard 1-1 removal) than put others further ahead hence the Strip Mine v Field of the Dead comparison. Compared to the table Arcane puts you slightly less behind but in all honesty the table comparison is misleading. With the plethora of better counters that exist and are cheap, Arcane really has no reason to be in the conversation.
@@ms.sysbit5511 lol your silly amd very wrong, its nothing like strip mine vs field of ruin. Field of ruin is keeping the two of you at parody and ramping your other opponents. Arcane denial is keeping you from going down a card and putting a target on the back of a player who just tried to win the game and then drew two cards for their efforts.
@@bladetb3934 it is humorous how you rebutted nothing I said and fail to use ‘parity’ correctly. The one who is Arcane Denied digs deeper so it is far too huggy to be advisable. A pure 1:1 is better math than digging them towards more gas even if you cantrip. Would you ever play a 2:1 they draw 2, you draw 1? Certainly not? Why would you then when it’s stapled onto a Counterspell? The math is still horrendous.
I normally end up listening via Spotify but this episode I had to switch to the video because damn I didn't recognize half these cards.
At least with pulsemage advocate you can answer the ability on the stack and exile the cards in the graveyard
I'm now very interested in building Orzhov politics, I have a Shadrix but don't have a place for him yet.
That said, my favorite is Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist. He subtly warps the game and makes it incredibly interactive with all the cards being drawn and damage being dealt.
You guys gotta try the card Head Games. It's such a weird and interesting card. Give you opponent a hand fill with bombs that hurt everyone else but you
Having an opponent head games me then making me draw head games then following it with mindslaver was the most fun I've ever had in the kingdoms variant of edh. Can't recommend the card highly enough
Tempt with discovery- one time I was playing in a 5 person pod I played a turn 2 Gitrog Monster due to turn 1 exploration and turn 2 temp.... EVERYONE took the offer.
I have a strip mine in every one of my decks, so I tell them Im tempted. They pull out their 2 favorite lamds, and I immediately blow up the better one.
Pulsemage advocate is also in a way reanimation hate. As long as the guy playing reanimator has at least 3 cards in their graveyard you always have threat of activation, leaving them unable to play their reanimation cards.
seth, what is the cyclops art piece in your background???
You can tell everybody here is a spike because whenever somebody mentions a card in the episode about political cards everybody's like "yeah but this feels more like a combo piece" or "why would i give my opponent something?"
edit: not to imply being a Spike is bad. just saying it's effecting the way they evaluate cards
I once slammed mindslaver on the board, one of My opponent fracture identy it, and it created this weird chicken Game for My 3 opponents, where no one wanted to use it bc of another stealing the turn You are stealing, and the 3 of the saving the 4 mana up, like 45 mins after that, someone was about to lose, and triggered the battle, ofc, the last one to use it, is the one that gets it.
It ended being a shit mindslaver turn, but the tensión till that was really good
I had another Game where a player created Marit lage by paying the mana !! And i fracture identy it, it was hillarious for all of us exept the one who got stealed, and he died bc no Marit lage in the defense.
Again, the weird board stall of marit lages whatching each other
The Card is fun! So much potential to create funny memmories
That is beautiful beats my record of two goaded marit lages in a game.
I got a 4 for 1 with Council’s Judgement. I made a deal for the table to take out 2 of one player’s threats (turn order made sure that whatever he picked the last guy would even it out to 2 votes on each thing). They all double crossed each other and chose something on each other’s boards. I was so happy.
Coveted Jewel is fantastic. I'm totally with Richard on this.
In an Osgir deck ;)
@@dylaneilertson2335 indeed hehehehehee it's DIRTY
It's absolutely wild in yorion blink. You can felidar/yorion loop and get 4 blinks a turn
As a [Kings] group hug only player I am sad to not to see some of the more obscure cards In my deck like split decision, healing technique, and guided passage. If you end up seeing this comment I would also be interested in getting your take on the cards Unifying Theory & Oath of Lieges as cards.
Guided Passage is my favorite card.
The oaths are a fantastic underplayed cycle.
TOMER, Will you please help me make a deck using as many of these cards as possible, PLEASE?!
I dunno about defending IntOffering as a "untap your accelerants" spell in a meta, where admittedly "mana rocks generally suck because they get blown up every other turn".
Secret Rendezvous FTW!
One thing to note is best case scenario Coveted Jewel is Gilded lotus with ancestral recall attached
WHERES THE WISHCLAW TALISMAN?
I'm currently building a Kenrith monarch political deck and the Will of the Council, Council's Dilemma, Temp with, and Offering cards are some pretty good choices, but obviously the ones here are the best picks. I definitely put Shadrix in there too, but Magister of Worth also seems like a good choice.
In addition to Lethal Vapors, some other things I could suggest along the same vein are Standstill and Volrath's Dungeon
I built something similar but with tivit seller of secrets. Does very good stuff
Having been the target of Curse of Opulence, I can confirm it feels bad man.