Does micromanaging ever work? If so, when? Excerpt of a conversation from JOCKO PODCAST #32 Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @echocharles
This feels like a revisionist definition of the word. Training a new hire, or someone new to a role, is completely different than micromanaging. Micromanaging is a narcissistic inability to let anyone on your team lead their role with any autonomy... especially the people on the team that are veterans to their positions and know their skillset backward and forward. Micromanagement is about fear and ego getting in the way of entire teams.
No my job damn near lost all of their employees in less than three months because of someone coming in micromanaging I was a year and a half into my job where a new manager came in micromanaging and in less than three months he was let go for causing hostile work environment with some workers that never had issues to begin with
I don’t think you know what micro management is. Most of the examples where mentor ship. If you have the need to micro manage someone, they have 0 reason to be in that position under you.
I agree. Micromanagement is a narcissistic inability to allow autonomy of individuals, period. It is an egotistical weakness. You can't fix them, and should bail ASAP.
Hope that other job goes well. and if you listen to Jocko podcast and want the organization u work for to succeed, success will come your way. Don't let negative people get into your head. Torture haters with success.
I worked the same job for 20 years, and the last 5 i have had a micromanager, and all my career growth feels like it is back to day one. Everything feels like he is trying to break me of having intelligence and autonomy. He is likely a narcissist. Total career killer. Going back to school to finish my degree in January 2022.
However they are some managers who want to be "fault finders". Had a new manager from another department but didn't know the core aspect of our job, but all he would focus on "Petty" points rather rather develop the department and its workers. We were doing well before he came but he try to find way to belittle people so that he could make a name for himself. Your term of Micromanagement is more " additional guidance training" -not micromanagement. In the Military, the" additional guidance training" is to ensure uniformity and cohesiveness. In the corporate world, Micro-management as most people really know it, inhibit creativity which is important for develop new products and services. I do agree about the points you made at 4:18. What micromanagers fail to see that this type of thing waste their time and that of their worker- a very unproductive management practice
Usually love these clips, but Micromanagement in the military and micromanagement in the corporate world seem to be completely different. A micromanager in the corporate world does not have the judgment to know when to back off. In fact, they can be someone transferred in from another department who does not know what their subordinates really do, but they provide detailed advice on how to do their jobs. They have never done the job of the person they are managing. In the military, you move up from the bottom (in many cases) and you have shown competency in the job of the people you will now manage. You have a procedure that they need to master. Once they master it, you can back off. If you've never done that job, and you're a lateral promotion, but want to tell people what to do anyway, that's a micromanager. Other traits are managers who are overly critical, for whatever reason, and don't know when to back off. They suck the life out of any organization and create a toxic work environment.
Wrong. Micromanaging is a style. You are confusing the label of a “micromanager” on poor, incompentent leaders that dont trust their subordinates. Sometimes you have to micromanage somebody so they understand exactly what needs to be done, safety issues, goals of the organization, etc. Its mostly with new employees or those who are not able to do the job with the autonomy they are given. A good leader knows the proper times to micromanage and to release control.
@@phillipg243 Wrong. Training new hires or people into a new role is not micromanagement, it is mentorship and oversight. If you don't ever let up on that person, then you are not fit for training new hires and should be removed from the responsibility, or you made a bad hire for that position and the new hire should be reclassified or removed from the organization, not strung along incessantly. Micromanagement is a narcissistic inability to allow qualified people to do jobs that they have already trained for, and it comes from an egotistical need to feel important and in control, and usually a sign of fear and weakness of the micromanager, and possibly some kind of trauma from childhood. Micromanagement takes multiple people and makes them as weak as one person, instead of making a team that can work toward a common outcome autonomously.
@@jmfs3497look at you- a micromanager trying to redefine the word to your liking lol. Micromanagement is a term that is explained on its face. People who try to control every tiny aspect of their team in a management position. It’s annoying and unnecessary. You can’t say people that are being trained are micromanagers… that doesn’t make sense. They’re not managers.
I was hired as a new manager externally. No formal training, we were in the red and had no staff. I was hired on with the notion that I was to be given great training, development and support. I wasn’t given a trainer until 4 months into the job. I asked for help and support and was given the excuse, “we don’t have the resources.” I don’t micromanage or worry about things that I can’t control and After 5 months I was shown the door. After hiring 2 new supervisors, and building a new team and finally inputting my culture… I’m currently suing for wrongful termination. Insurance Auto Auctions is the company I was terminated at. I was quote, “a Wrong fit.”
Hey Troopers! I need your help. I was searching for the podcast where Jocko answers a question from somebody who lost his brother in an accident, asking about "Is there any *Good* in death". I'm not quite sure it was around Podcast 30 - 55 or so...close to the end of the podcast but I couldn't find it. Would appraciate if somebody could be of service and help me finding this one. It's very important for me to listen to it again. Thanks guys! All the best!
I suppose micromanagement can be a good thing if you know when to dial it back, but I tend to think that more people oftentimes than not do not know when to do that which is the problem with micromanagement
I agree with Jocko that micromanaging is necessary in some situations, I would even say many. My current boss is a great micromanager, but is not a good macromanager. I could lay out a plan trying to show him "I've got this" but he will always scrap it. The only thing he won't scrap are if I can do something that he can't do, then I just present him the final work.
Do you think micro management has a demoralising effect on the productive elements of your team if you are applying it because you got some rotten elements in the team?
Jocko sounds like he is doing mentoring. Micro management usually causes the staff to feed them to the hog eventually, passive aggressive behavior, or the staff leave.
what if somebodys micromanaging just to be controlling 😂 at my job there is no right answer. its not me alone its all workers. people are just bossy and give contradicting directions that are the opposite of whatever you choose 😂 heres an example. day 1 told i can take break whenever im not busy. check day 3 told i have to tell somebody im taking break. check week 3 told break time isn't till 4 pm as i laugh saying ive been taking it at 3 pm and it was news to me. check. second month everybody gets scolded for taking break at 4pm because we cant all go at once with 0 explanation of why 😂 .... check.. today told when we finish up we all need to take break at the same time 🤣😂 this is how all things are.managed in the building lol. i truly believe people just like to be karens and manage for?? power, control? like every day could be so easy. instead its just nonstop contradictions 😂 so i said what time is break time? how bout we schedule breaks. and my boss has 0 to say about that lol. if you present a solution to a problem its not even acknowledged because i dont think they want solutions lol. i think they want to whine about something 😂 i mean?? i cant think of another reason to take something so simple and make it so complex and diffficult.
. It’s a sign of insecurity so if you’re under their lead try to gain trust, if you’re the leader back off a bit let the team do it’s work. In the work field micromanaging = high turnover
This feels like a revisionist definition of the word. Training a new hire, or someone new to a role, is completely different than micromanaging. Micromanaging is a narcissistic inability to let anyone on your team lead their role with any autonomy... especially the people on the team that are veterans to their positions and know their skillset backward and forward. Micromanagement is about fear and ego getting in the way of entire teams.
Thank you!
Very well said
i love how honest Echo is with himself on the podcast.
AIRBORNE916 It’s really refreshing.
No my job damn near lost all of their employees in less than three months because of someone coming in micromanaging I was a year and a half into my job where a new manager came in micromanaging and in less than three months he was let go for causing hostile work environment with some workers that never had issues to begin with
I don’t think you know what micro management is. Most of the examples where mentor ship. If you have the need to micro manage someone, they have 0 reason to be in that position under you.
shane pauley I completely agree
I agree. Micromanagement is a narcissistic inability to allow autonomy of individuals, period. It is an egotistical weakness. You can't fix them, and should bail ASAP.
But if a person was micromanaged in the first place it will damage their motivation, creativity, and morale for long term.
What if you been with a job 2 years and still micromanaging you. My plan is to start looking at another job😡😡😡😡
Hope that other job goes well. and if you listen to Jocko podcast and want the organization u work for to succeed, success will come your way. Don't let negative people get into your head. Torture haters with success.
I worked the same job for 20 years, and the last 5 i have had a micromanager, and all my career growth feels like it is back to day one. Everything feels like he is trying to break me of having intelligence and autonomy. He is likely a narcissist. Total career killer. Going back to school to finish my degree in January 2022.
However they are some managers who want to be "fault finders". Had a new manager from another department but didn't know the core aspect of our job, but all he would focus on "Petty" points rather rather develop the department and its workers.
We were doing well before he came but he try to find way to belittle people so that he could make a name for himself.
Your term of Micromanagement is more " additional guidance training" -not micromanagement.
In the Military, the" additional guidance training" is to ensure uniformity and cohesiveness.
In the corporate world, Micro-management as most people really know it, inhibit creativity which is important for develop new products and services. I do agree about the points you made at 4:18. What micromanagers fail to see that this type of thing waste their time and that of their worker- a very unproductive management practice
I wish for that step back and "we all got this" trust. Free from unnecessary power tripping and public displays of power exertion over others.
This is sooo good to hear 👍🏼 Im starting from the bottom again & was not looking forward to be micromanaged until I heard this. Ego checked
The Man, The Myth, The Legend .. Mr. Jocko Willink
Santosh Reddy Bommana Legend is exactly right!
Usually love these clips, but Micromanagement in the military and micromanagement in the corporate world seem to be completely different. A micromanager in the corporate world does not have the judgment to know when to back off. In fact, they can be someone transferred in from another department who does not know what their subordinates really do, but they provide detailed advice on how to do their jobs. They have never done the job of the person they are managing. In the military, you move up from the bottom (in many cases) and you have shown competency in the job of the people you will now manage. You have a procedure that they need to master. Once they master it, you can back off. If you've never done that job, and you're a lateral promotion, but want to tell people what to do anyway, that's a micromanager.
Other traits are managers who are overly critical, for whatever reason, and don't know when to back off. They suck the life out of any organization and create a toxic work environment.
Wrong. Micromanaging is a style. You are confusing the label of a “micromanager” on poor, incompentent leaders that dont trust their subordinates. Sometimes you have to micromanage somebody so they understand exactly what needs to be done, safety issues, goals of the organization, etc. Its mostly with new employees or those who are not able to do the job with the autonomy they are given. A good leader knows the proper times to micromanage and to release control.
@@phillipg243 Wrong. Training new hires or people into a new role is not micromanagement, it is mentorship and oversight. If you don't ever let up on that person, then you are not fit for training new hires and should be removed from the responsibility, or you made a bad hire for that position and the new hire should be reclassified or removed from the organization, not strung along incessantly. Micromanagement is a narcissistic inability to allow qualified people to do jobs that they have already trained for, and it comes from an egotistical need to feel important and in control, and usually a sign of fear and weakness of the micromanager, and possibly some kind of trauma from childhood. Micromanagement takes multiple people and makes them as weak as one person, instead of making a team that can work toward a common outcome autonomously.
@@jmfs3497look at you- a micromanager trying to redefine the word to your liking lol. Micromanagement is a term that is explained on its face. People who try to control every tiny aspect of their team in a management position. It’s annoying and unnecessary. You can’t say people that are being trained are micromanagers… that doesn’t make sense. They’re not managers.
I was hired as a new manager externally. No formal training, we were in the red and had no staff. I was hired on with the notion that I was to be given great training, development and support. I wasn’t given a trainer until 4 months into the job. I asked for help and support and was given the excuse, “we don’t have the resources.” I don’t micromanage or worry about things that I can’t control and After 5 months I was shown the door. After hiring 2 new supervisors, and building a new team and finally inputting my culture… I’m currently suing for wrongful termination. Insurance Auto Auctions is the company I was terminated at. I was quote, “a Wrong fit.”
Yep, suddenly put under a microscope and written up for BS reasons.
Hey Troopers! I need your help. I was searching for the podcast where Jocko answers a question from somebody who lost his brother in an accident, asking about "Is there any *Good* in death".
I'm not quite sure it was around Podcast 30 - 55 or so...close to the end of the podcast but I couldn't find it. Would appraciate if somebody could be of service and help me finding this one. It's very important for me to listen to it again.
Thanks guys! All the best!
Bralor89 podcast 27 at the very end
Thank you Will! Thanks for taking your time and searching it. I am very grateful you did it. Have a nice Weekend!
No problem glad I could help!
I suppose micromanagement can be a good thing if you know when to dial it back, but I tend to think that more people oftentimes than not do not know when to do that which is the problem with micromanagement
I agree with Jocko that micromanaging is necessary in some situations, I would even say many. My current boss is a great micromanager, but is not a good macromanager. I could lay out a plan trying to show him "I've got this" but he will always scrap it. The only thing he won't scrap are if I can do something that he can't do, then I just present him the final work.
Sir , you pump me up!
Good evening Echo....have you ever disagreed with Jocko?
OhSteve Nobody has... and lived to tell the tale lol
That Habit Guy Channel Haha, right? They're taking a dirt nap somewhere.
Do you think micro management has a demoralising effect on the productive elements of your team if you are applying it because you got some rotten elements in the team?
Thx boss
Jocko sounds like he is doing mentoring. Micro management usually causes the staff to feed them to the hog eventually, passive aggressive behavior, or the staff leave.
That’s called training, different concept.
Seems like its mentorship, coming from jocko.
Mentorship and Micromanage is different
Amazing.
Dear US ARMY,
Listen to the above.
Sweet Jocko broke the 100,000 Mark! That's great to see!
Two years later, almost at 500k
what if somebodys micromanaging just to be controlling 😂 at my job there is no right answer. its not me alone its all workers. people are just bossy and give contradicting directions that are the opposite of whatever you choose 😂
heres an example.
day 1 told i can take break whenever im not busy. check
day 3 told i have to tell somebody im taking break. check
week 3 told break time isn't till 4 pm as i laugh saying ive been taking it at 3 pm and it was news to me. check.
second month everybody gets scolded for taking break at 4pm because we cant all go at once with 0 explanation of why 😂 .... check..
today told when we finish up we all need to take break at the same time 🤣😂
this is how all things are.managed in the building lol. i truly believe people just like to be karens and manage for?? power, control? like every day could be so easy. instead its just nonstop contradictions 😂
so i said what time is break time? how bout we schedule breaks. and my boss has 0 to say about that lol.
if you present a solution to a problem its not even acknowledged because i dont think they want solutions lol. i think they want to whine about something 😂 i mean?? i cant think of another reason to take something so simple and make it so complex and diffficult.
. It’s a sign of insecurity so if you’re under their lead try to gain trust, if you’re the leader back off a bit let the team do it’s work. In the work field micromanaging = high turnover
Nah, you don’t need to micromanage new employees…
No it doesnt
So what happened to that left middle finger Jocko, did you give someone the "bird" and then they did BJJ on you finger? LOL!
He talks about it in episode 32. He injured it rolling
I don't think jocko is fully understanding micro managing.