I come from Planetside 2 and honestly I need action combat to enjoy an mmo, I played Skyforge and enjoyed doing dungeons in that game. However pve content in Rift, WoW, Lotro were all boring. Guild Wars 2 was alright but zerging is boring... Wildstar was fun however, I enjoyed both pve and pvp in that game.
In the past, the game WAS figuring out optimal stats. Now with information being shared on a scale we've never seen that game is solved almost instantly. It's great that Intrepid are ensuring there is more than just solving the stats and positioning for boss mechanics. I can't wait to play around with both forms of combat.
The reason tab targeting is so popular in MMOs is that tab targeting uses turn based mechanics, which is easier for servers to handle, reducing server lag. Twitchy-trigger shooters are hard on servers because they have to calculate the various moving body parts of each character, players and npcs, for where and when someone is hit and how that relates to everyone else using the server. This can create load demands and lag spikes from servers.
I REALLY enjoy guild wars 2 combat and if feels kinda similar to this, it's based on tab targetting: - melee skills always have cleave, and some ranged skills as well - AoE skills obviously hit everyone in the circle and you have to aim it - almost every skill can be used while moving, which makes combat feel more dynamic - the roll/dodge mechanic also helps the dynamic feeling - terrain can cause skills to miss because of "out of sight", you can use them, but they won't hit and you will spend your cooldown - and if you a targeted skill without one selected the character will just throw it on the ground or in the air, and you will again spend a cooldown for nothing
The cameras seem to work exactly like Guild Wars 2 so unless I'm missing something there is no reason to play action cam outside of comfortability and convenience. If you are proficient with tab cam its just strait up better and can do more.
1. In Soulsborne games aiming is used for specific things like shooting a tail of a dragon, for example. 2. In God of War, you aim your axe to hit switches to open doors or cut something that opens up next stage of the game. 3. In some games where bosses are gigantic and they have weak spots you shoot them with the bow. Thats what you could use action camera for...
Technically, Soulsborne games are tab-targeting hybrids, too. Locking on targets is essential for different situations in that game, as is staying unlocked, obviously. Tab targeting...skill shots...what's actually important is whether the combat is engaging, not how you aim.
Gw2 Dose this really well. Having both action and tab. From my experience once you start enjoying action mode you will never go back. It gives so much freedom.
I think the exact opposite actually. I feel like the action combat in guild wars 2 is kinda like training wheels for people who struggle with the tab system but in high levels of gameplay tab target is just better and having a keybind to toggle to the action combat camera very a few specific things is nice. Adds another level of skill to the game as well.
Man, I love this video so much! Great explanation of what tab and action combat are and why ashes is going with a hybrid system! I think its the best of both worlds...
Please link this to all your friends that are Tab Target boomers, or Adderall addicted Action Combat Andies! Great job on showing why Intrepid is not fully making Ashes of Creation one or the other, Dr. Bucky, but instead bringing the best from both worlds!
I love the flexibility of being able to do both, especially being someone who mainly plays melee characters. I know this sounds stupid but action mode feels like there’s a lot more action going on compared to tab. 😂. It gives everything a different feel. Having the ability to switch between the modes opens up a lot of gameplay choices. Great video man. Keep it up. Love the content.
After playing New World, I'm all for a hybrid system. Melee is a mixed bag. If its action combat, then you will probably be blocking most of the time unless there is a footsie system built in where the tank is to continuously be on the move looking for attack opportunities rather than turtling up.
I came from playing Elder Scrolls online which is basically action combat but it does have some tab effects where ranged projectiles are concerned you don’t have to actually aim like New World. I didn’t think I would really enjoy tab targets games until I started playing Guild Wars 2 recently and I am loving it. Low barrier for entry but extremely high skill ceiling. If Ashes combat is anything like GWs 2 I think it’ll be super fun.
Feels like you just described Guild wars 2 combat which has even extra layer of combat. Combining spells together. On thing which seems common for ranged class in Ashes is that casting of lot of spells makes you stop moving which is meh... Also do you know about future classes or weapon proffesions?
That's their risk vs reward style. A huge damage skill takes time to fire off. I do like how they are making some of the skills move while casting or moving while in mid air. I think that will balance it out well.
Yeah. If you can really set your own spell bar from spells which does not require standing only, that would be cool, and then if you would still be able to catch up and be usefull in party or raiding, would be even more cool. @@rext3404
Since I discovered action combat in MMOs (which is so great), I don't know if I could go back to a tab-targetting mmo again. Hopefully this MMO could also give a proper action combat gameplay for all classes.
Thank you for doing these videos! Speaking of everquest, I hope they have something like the epic class quest chains in ashes. The satisfaction from completing my ranger epic was, well, epic!
just going to say if they keep the action tab as described in this video every one is going to use auto hot key or Gkeys or something like that so its always a 1 button press to aquire target and use ability in 1 press of a button.
Personally, I like the ESO system when you simply aim close to your desired target to fire at it. Still not sure whether there´s gonna be smart targetting for healing in AoC. Do you know?
I wonder if you guys'll add companions like the ones in Archeage, my favourite build back in the day consisted on tanking damage, debuffing the enemies and buffing my pets, the robot one in particular, it was surprissingly effective and fun. + You looked really cool doing all that with a badass lute for extra swag. I just now heard of this game and it looks like a dream come true, great job with the systems, looks fun.
I do think heavy impact skills should be aimed, like a realy big nuke or like a displacement skills like a pull to you, these skills can be instant death in large scale so there should be some skill elements involved like the aiming to pull them off. Yoinking somone to you in a seige right next to your 20+ players just makles them get focused so these kinda of skill should have some element of skill such as aiming involved since they are very impactful to an engagment. the grapple shot for example as it stands now will be instand death 90% of the time for anyone hit by it in large scale pvp and since it a tab target skill it garanteed to work basicly, the best pull abilities currently in game would be new world scorpion sting javelin throw, thresh and blitz pull from league of legends and so on all have an element of skill involved with it being aimed and travel time
So is there soft lock action combat similar to eso. Like if I'm aiming in their direction the attack hits? As of now it seems like 2 hard choices of either tab or pure action like new world where if your a millimeter off you miss. That middle ground was hit imo with esos combat. Fluid and felt good.
Good question. I’ve played ESO and it’s different than that. The soft lock looks like it’s for abilities. When you’re light attacking with action mode, you’ll still miss if you’re right off your target like Steven did.
@@TheCopiumClinic I kinda hate that, new worlds attacks felt so awkward. Good in large scale I guess, but the soft lock action mix felt great in an mmo.
As much as new world sucked I really enjoyed having to aim and being able to miss, it was more immersive for me. A dam modifier based on armour and type of attack would be good to see a minor increase in dam based on the hitbox hit from using action combat, regular attacks ie a headshot using normal attacks (not skill attacks) in action should have more of an impact IMHO. This hybrid system is going to be real interesting to test properly in Alpha 2. :)
There doesn't need to be an increase in damage in action/skill mode that is how it works. If AOC changes that dynamic it would be a decrease in damage to skill abilities.
min 8:28 - that sounds really bad to be honest. Having to spend more points to make a skill be able to tab target. That should not be a thing. It's just wrong. They need to rethink that a little bit. Unless it applies to only 2 skills out of the entire arsenal. There are other things they need to consider because most of the time when you do a hybrid gameplay, while it does look good for now, range classes will have an advantage over melee since they can kite you with the tab target skills and by the time you get to them ure already half HP. Look at GW2. Range have insane advantage while melee struggle more.
(for the record, I believe games such as FPS games are action combat. when I talk about action, it isn’t specifically MMOs) My hot take is that targeting doesn’t actually matter very much if at all, stemming from my belief that targeting does not affect how good the actual combat mechanics are. Break down combat into the base parts that make it whole, the concepts you need good to make combat good. Things such as Balance, Smoothness, Punch, whatever you’d like. I would say that you could find one action game AND one tab game that has any one specific quality (given you don’t have a quality like “tab targeting” to make a game good, then you’d just argue over that). The question I posit would be, if given tab target AND action combat can both produce the same qualities, What difference does tab target/action ACTUALLY have? If it isn’t combat, what would it be? I would say preference. And if it’s preference, given that it isn’t combat the ONLY preference is aiming or not. I treat that preference similar to if somebody ate some specific food (like pizza) poorly made and concludes they don’t like the food itself. There’s obviously gonna be people who dislike that food, but there’s a lot more people who say they don’t like it but would like it if the food was made correctly/to their tastes. So I would say to people who go either way, whether completely action or completely tab target, to try some other games. Try the food a bit more from different chefs. See what you’d like. A game with “bad” combat isnt gonna be because of tab target or action combat, it’s gonna be because the execution on game mechanics was poor.
playing pvp in gw2 in legendary league, i can tell there is a lot of different use from tab targeting and action combat. Is not only about preference. You use action combat in specific occasions, and use tab targeting in others. As an example, a lot of skills in gw2 are usable even if you don't have a target, and u chose to use between them when u want to either create a movement animation (either towards the opponent or opposite direction), and depending on the angle you are engaging. Tab is good to follow an opponent in a duel, when there is a situation of 3v3 or more opponents is less profitable, since u are subjected to kiting from opponent team. In general, you would like to use tab combat for range single target attacks, and action combat for any other attack, been it melee or aoe damage, because doing so u have much more freedom in movements and animations. It's not about skill and about quality, no mode is easier than other, but a combat system based on specific situations has a better output in case you tab or if u just use action combat, is a good combat system. Gw2 does wonders with its hybrid system, this game combat looks very similar. And from my point of wiew, this games looks even better than gw2 combat wich is plagued by too many conditions and status. This looks much more clean and skill based.
@@TheCopiumClinic To ellaborate further (and a correction on my end), it is 75% tab or 75% action, but not 100% either way. You can see this in Lazypeons "Genuinely The Most Exciting Upcoming MMORPG - Ashes Of Creation at exactly 19:00.
still think that eso has some of the better type of tab where you can hover tab you can use tab but its slower. hover tab allows you to dodge and evade shots though roll dodging.
After playing MO2, I really have no desire to play tab combat. Even though I'm quite terrible at the combat in MO2, I'd rather continue to die horribly than go back to a no skill tab target system.
@@mobtek Okay, more hitboxes gets added-Do you really think you can hit something of value in this seemingly very fast paced game? What are you going to do when some fuck who is tab targeting is stab dancing around you? His camera controls don't matter.He will always get a hit. How much time will iit take to add those hitboxes? How many of them should be added?
I don't know i still think hybrid gives a lot of space for the devs tk have a way harder time balancing stuff specially when they are literally associating the possibility to morph skills into action or tab based on skill points... We will end up with players simply choosing what the meta/cookie cutter builds tell them to do and it's more often then not going to be tab for simplicity basically removing the need for action mode all together... I think mmos need to stick with either one or the other and not go hybrid, hybrid for me as always either fail to actually feel action and feel more like tsb with smart target (this is not the same as true action) also action combat in MMOs has a lot to explore yet, think of other non MMO with action combat that we can draw ideas from... Imagine having a for honor system and the combos are the skills you can make or characters have, like a fireball could be a heavy cast + light cast Combo etc... there is a lot to explore outside the typical tab/dark souls combat or hybrid of two
Its infuriating when people say actioncombat is better than tabtargetting in an MMO. If this game wants to have any semblance of PvP, it MUST lean heavily into tabtarget ofcourse with a healthy amount of skillshots. Actioncombat PvP has always, without fail, produced the most degenerate combat patterns imaginable. Take a long hard look at Dark and Darker and the degenerate defying of physics, impossible gyration and contortion of models, and how unimmersive it is. Yes, tabtargetting has less skill expression, but it has been tested and proven that a game can be balanced around it. It is very understandable to have melee be action-combat when its basically a wide swing, cleaving and not being able to miss a target, that being said again, take a look at how Dark and Darker handles it with melee classes playing limbo at the knee with each other and covering their stomachs with their shields to become virtually immune, which is the form of gameplay u do not want in a game as immersive as AoC hopes to be. There is a really satisfying combat pattern that u can unlock by pressing the right buttons at the right time, despite being a tab targetted MMO. If the devs tap into that properly, the cleric and ranger spotlights seem to indicate they have, I seriously doubt anyone would have a problem with their decision on making it a hybrid.
i play over 24 years mmorpg,but let be honest tab is shit compare to action for reason,but let see how hybrid combat will work in AoC!I like dinamic combat,fast movement,and combo skills like in BDO!For now what ashes show us looks really good i hope cast spells wont be too slow bcs we talk about PvP game!
Tab targeting would exist even if the internet wasn't a hinderance in the 90s. It's an MMORPG. Twitch skills shouldn't be coming into play. You build the character through stats. When you play DnD you're not adding your real life twitch skills into the game. It's all stats vs stats and making intelligent decisions. Another example, no twitch skills in chess. It's all intelligence and making the correct logical decision in whatever scenario you find yourself in whether it be PVP or PVE.
I play a variety of games that are tab or action. None of them put a sour taste in my mouth. What does is gameplay that does not feel smooth. If intrepid does tab I will play. If they do action I will play. They choose the hybrid.... I will play. Just make the combat feel smooth and polished
For PVE, action combat creates a static stale, stand in place attack for melee players. Super boring. For PVP there is a benefit for being able to dodge range attacks when the game lacks skill to quickly close the gap onto them. Tab target, is fun for moving and jumping and just getting used to you button rotation. I prefer a tab target for pvp IF the game proves more than 3 buttons to mash. Games like WoW and Aion, had a heavy list of skills and the winner was typically the person who knew the correct rotation of skills. If you just stand there and don't move and button mash, on tab target, then your a bot
this is better than most, bad as always for me. Even new world had a actual aim and shoot system. Games like Conan, Rust, Ark, etc have better bows than most mmo, and games like Mortal Online and dark and darker have the best
Interesting this is treated as such a big deal. "Action gameplay," i.e. aiming, has been used in most tab target mmos since the internet got decently fast. Try an AoE in most of them. I predict this will be a minor blip in terms of drawing new or pleasing multiple players and demographics. Bottom line, RPG players like non skill based gameplay and so won't like this, action players will.
Forgive me, my usage of the term action in the final sentence was in the more general sense. action games like Mario and megaman, and such. not in the MMO specific sense of aiming.
![สาวเมืองเพชร - ธีเดช ทองอภิชาติ [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kEt7F9PvO3I/mqdefault.jpg)
I didn’t make mention of specific other MMOs combat in the video. Feel free to do so below.
RuneScape. The best combat around
@@RitchieSH Hahaha
I come from Planetside 2 and honestly I need action combat to enjoy an mmo, I played Skyforge and enjoyed doing dungeons in that game. However pve content in Rift, WoW, Lotro were all boring. Guild Wars 2 was alright but zerging is boring...
Wildstar was fun however, I enjoyed both pve and pvp in that game.
If I remember correctly, Guild Wars 2 has the same mix of tab and skill shots.
My only MMO I ever played : metin2 (there was only this when I was young , I wasn't allowed to pay anything for game sadly )
In the past, the game WAS figuring out optimal stats. Now with information being shared on a scale we've never seen that game is solved almost instantly. It's great that Intrepid are ensuring there is more than just solving the stats and positioning for boss mechanics. I can't wait to play around with both forms of combat.
The reason tab targeting is so popular in MMOs is that tab targeting uses turn based mechanics, which is easier for servers to handle, reducing server lag.
Twitchy-trigger shooters are hard on servers because they have to calculate the various moving body parts of each character, players and npcs, for where and when someone is hit and how that relates to everyone else using the server. This can create load demands and lag spikes from servers.
I REALLY enjoy guild wars 2 combat and if feels kinda similar to this, it's based on tab targetting:
- melee skills always have cleave, and some ranged skills as well
- AoE skills obviously hit everyone in the circle and you have to aim it
- almost every skill can be used while moving, which makes combat feel more dynamic
- the roll/dodge mechanic also helps the dynamic feeling
- terrain can cause skills to miss because of "out of sight", you can use them, but they won't hit and you will spend your cooldown
- and if you a targeted skill without one selected the character will just throw it on the ground or in the air, and you will again spend a cooldown for nothing
Great breakdown!
I just started playing Guild Wars 2 to try and prepare for Ashes Alpha 2 and I am completely hooked. Such a good game
The cameras seem to work exactly like Guild Wars 2 so unless I'm missing something there is no reason to play action cam outside of comfortability and convenience. If you are proficient with tab cam its just strait up better and can do more.
1. In Soulsborne games aiming is used for specific things like shooting a tail of a dragon, for example.
2. In God of War, you aim your axe to hit switches to open doors or cut something that opens up next stage of the game.
3. In some games where bosses are gigantic and they have weak spots you shoot them with the bow.
Thats what you could use action camera for...
Technically, Soulsborne games are tab-targeting hybrids, too. Locking on targets is essential for different situations in that game, as is staying unlocked, obviously.
Tab targeting...skill shots...what's actually important is whether the combat is engaging, not how you aim.
Gw2 Dose this really well. Having both action and tab. From my experience once you start enjoying action mode you will never go back. It gives so much freedom.
I think the exact opposite actually. I feel like the action combat in guild wars 2 is kinda like training wheels for people who struggle with the tab system but in high levels of gameplay tab target is just better and having a keybind to toggle to the action combat camera very a few specific things is nice. Adds another level of skill to the game as well.
I think a hybrid system is the best over just tab or action combat.
I agree. Action combat can just feel too loose. I actually enjoy tab targeting. I think wow is one of the best feeling mmos out there right now.
Various telegraphed skill shots could bridge those two types of gameplay in my opinion.
Great video. This really should put all the questions people have to bed. Perfect blend of both systems and features/styles of combat IMO
Man, I love this video so much! Great explanation of what tab and action combat are and why ashes is going with a hybrid system! I think its the best of both worlds...
Thanks dude! I agree, best of both worlds!
Still prefer non floaty true Action Combat. Not Action Mode. Big difference
I'll have you know that there is, in fact, a lot of skill that goes into pressing tab.
Hahah ❤️
Aion was tab target and PvP absolutely required skill!
I would love to test a damage increase for action combat in alpha 2, I just want both styles to be on an equal playing field
Action targeting would be nice for rooting abilities trying to CC the nearest enemy without target managing.
Please link this to all your friends that are Tab Target boomers, or Adderall addicted Action Combat Andies!
Great job on showing why Intrepid is not fully making Ashes of Creation one or the other, Dr. Bucky, but instead bringing the best from both worlds!
I love the flexibility of being able to do both, especially being someone who mainly plays melee characters. I know this sounds stupid but action mode feels like there’s a lot more action going on compared to tab. 😂. It gives everything a different feel. Having the ability to switch between the modes opens up a lot of gameplay choices. Great video man. Keep it up. Love the content.
Very well done! 🙏
Awe rangerhood didn't use the short bow and put 12 rapid fire arrows in the target.
After playing New World, I'm all for a hybrid system. Melee is a mixed bag. If its action combat, then you will probably be blocking most of the time unless there is a footsie system built in where the tank is to continuously be on the move looking for attack opportunities rather than turtling up.
I’m curious to see how they make tank gameplay engaging.
I came from playing Elder Scrolls online which is basically action combat but it does have some tab effects where ranged projectiles are concerned you don’t have to actually aim like New World. I didn’t think I would really enjoy tab targets games until I started playing Guild Wars 2 recently and I am loving it. Low barrier for entry but extremely high skill ceiling. If Ashes combat is anything like GWs 2 I think it’ll be super fun.
Feels like you just described Guild wars 2 combat which has even extra layer of combat. Combining spells together. On thing which seems common for ranged class in Ashes is that casting of lot of spells makes you stop moving which is meh... Also do you know about future classes or weapon proffesions?
Yeah it's not far off, but it's different enough to be unique. Yeah my next video will be about weapons.
That's their risk vs reward style. A huge damage skill takes time to fire off. I do like how they are making some of the skills move while casting or moving while in mid air. I think that will balance it out well.
Yeah. If you can really set your own spell bar from spells which does not require standing only, that would be cool, and then if you would still be able to catch up and be usefull in party or raiding, would be even more cool. @@rext3404
Since I discovered action combat in MMOs (which is so great), I don't know if I could go back to a tab-targetting mmo again. Hopefully this MMO could also give a proper action combat gameplay for all classes.
Thank you for doing these videos! Speaking of everquest, I hope they have something like the epic class quest chains in ashes. The satisfaction from completing my ranger epic was, well, epic!
7:32 "Where are youuuuuu" 😂
Great showcase video! May the algorithm carry you far on its black, leathery wings.
hahaha thanks dude
just going to say if they keep the action tab as described in this video every one is going to use auto hot key or Gkeys or something like that so its always a 1 button press to aquire target and use ability in 1 press of a button.
that would make you switch target every time u press a key no ? not very useful if u need to focus 1 guy xD
Personally, I like the ESO system when you simply aim close to your desired target to fire at it.
Still not sure whether there´s gonna be smart targetting for healing in AoC. Do you know?
I wonder if you guys'll add companions like the ones in Archeage, my favourite build back in the day consisted on tanking damage, debuffing the enemies and buffing my pets, the robot one in particular, it was surprissingly effective and fun.
+ You looked really cool doing all that with a badass lute for extra swag.
I just now heard of this game and it looks like a dream come true, great job with the systems, looks fun.
This channel is not made by a dev 😅 fyi
Can we just call it Action Tab Combat already? 😋
What a perfect video!
Thanks Grizz!
Happy they are doing the hybrid system but wish they had a head shot for at least pve, would make the ranger much more interesting if there was.
Hybrid approach is probably the best, time and testing will reveal more 100%
Agreed
I do think heavy impact skills should be aimed, like a realy big nuke or like a displacement skills like a pull to you, these skills can be instant death in large scale so there should be some skill elements involved like the aiming to pull them off. Yoinking somone to you in a seige right next to your 20+ players just makles them get focused so these kinda of skill should have some element of skill such as aiming involved since they are very impactful to an engagment.
the grapple shot for example as it stands now will be instand death 90% of the time for anyone hit by it in large scale pvp and since it a tab target skill it garanteed to work basicly, the best pull abilities currently in game would be new world scorpion sting javelin throw, thresh and blitz pull from league of legends and so on all have an element of skill involved with it being aimed and travel time
So is there soft lock action combat similar to eso. Like if I'm aiming in their direction the attack hits? As of now it seems like 2 hard choices of either tab or pure action like new world where if your a millimeter off you miss. That middle ground was hit imo with esos combat. Fluid and felt good.
Good question. I’ve played ESO and it’s different than that. The soft lock looks like it’s for abilities. When you’re light attacking with action mode, you’ll still miss if you’re right off your target like Steven did.
@@TheCopiumClinic I kinda hate that, new worlds attacks felt so awkward. Good in large scale I guess, but the soft lock action mix felt great in an mmo.
@@TheCopiumClinic can you move freely while attacking? I'm asking bc I circle strafe in pvp
so it will use the guild wars 2 combat targeting ?
As much as new world sucked I really enjoyed having to aim and being able to miss, it was more immersive for me.
A dam modifier based on armour and type of attack would be good to see a minor increase in dam based on the hitbox hit from using action combat, regular attacks ie a headshot using normal attacks (not skill attacks) in action should have more of an impact IMHO.
This hybrid system is going to be real interesting to test properly in Alpha 2. :)
Outstanding.
There doesn't need to be an increase in damage in action/skill mode that is how it works. If AOC changes that dynamic it would be a decrease in damage to skill abilities.
Sounds like what DDO has had for 18 years. Its a good system
min 8:28 - that sounds really bad to be honest. Having to spend more points to make a skill be able to tab target. That should not be a thing. It's just wrong. They need to rethink that a little bit. Unless it applies to only 2 skills out of the entire arsenal. There are other things they need to consider because most of the time when you do a hybrid gameplay, while it does look good for now, range classes will have an advantage over melee since they can kite you with the tab target skills and by the time you get to them ure already half HP. Look at GW2. Range have insane advantage while melee struggle more.
Great video, it made me hype about UE5.
So when i bodyblock a Tab target attack from a melee Player that should hit my cleric mate, there will be no damage taken for none of us?
Good question, we'll find out soon
I really like GW2’s action tab system. It feels very fast and responsive. That being said, AoC is already looking like an old game
(for the record, I believe games such as FPS games are action combat. when I talk about action, it isn’t specifically MMOs)
My hot take is that targeting doesn’t actually matter very much if at all, stemming from my belief that targeting does not affect how good the actual combat mechanics are.
Break down combat into the base parts that make it whole, the concepts you need good to make combat good. Things such as Balance, Smoothness, Punch, whatever you’d like. I would say that you could find one action game AND one tab game that has any one specific quality (given you don’t have a quality like “tab targeting” to make a game good, then you’d just argue over that).
The question I posit would be, if given tab target AND action combat can both produce the same qualities, What difference does tab target/action ACTUALLY have? If it isn’t combat, what would it be? I would say preference. And if it’s preference, given that it isn’t combat the ONLY preference is aiming or not.
I treat that preference similar to if somebody ate some specific food (like pizza) poorly made and concludes they don’t like the food itself. There’s obviously gonna be people who dislike that food, but there’s a lot more people who say they don’t like it but would like it if the food was made correctly/to their tastes. So I would say to people who go either way, whether completely action or completely tab target, to try some other games. Try the food a bit more from different chefs. See what you’d like.
A game with “bad” combat isnt gonna be because of tab target or action combat, it’s gonna be because the execution on game mechanics was poor.
playing pvp in gw2 in legendary league, i can tell there is a lot of different use from tab targeting and action combat. Is not only about preference. You use action combat in specific occasions, and use tab targeting in others. As an example, a lot of skills in gw2 are usable even if you don't have a target, and u chose to use between them when u want to either create a movement animation (either towards the opponent or opposite direction), and depending on the angle you are engaging.
Tab is good to follow an opponent in a duel, when there is a situation of 3v3 or more opponents is less profitable, since u are subjected to kiting from opponent team. In general, you would like to use tab combat for range single target attacks, and action combat for any other attack, been it melee or aoe damage, because doing so u have much more freedom in movements and animations.
It's not about skill and about quality, no mode is easier than other, but a combat system based on specific situations has a better output in case you tab or if u just use action combat, is a good combat system. Gw2 does wonders with its hybrid system, this game combat looks very similar. And from my point of wiew, this games looks even better than gw2 combat wich is plagued by too many conditions and status. This looks much more clean and skill based.
7:50 (ish)
This is not actually correct, you can only have up to 80% of your selected abilities be action, or 80% tab, but never 100% of both.
Interesting. Is that on the wiki?
@@TheCopiumClinicI am not sure, but it was mentioned in one of their streams a long while ago, and is mentioned in Lazypeons first video iirc.
@@TheCopiumClinic To ellaborate further (and a correction on my end), it is 75% tab or 75% action, but not 100% either way.
You can see this in Lazypeons "Genuinely The Most Exciting Upcoming MMORPG - Ashes Of Creation at exactly 19:00.
@@doctorrogue1923 Good reference, but where's he getting that from? In terms of official source.
@@TheCopiumClinic I believe its a combination of going through the wiki, as well as in reference to past streams and Q/A's. Could be wrong?
I hope the game will get gamepad support beause pain in some of my fingers .
still think that eso has some of the better type of tab where you can hover tab you can use tab but its slower. hover tab allows you to dodge and evade shots though roll dodging.
If any MMO dont have tab targeting system i wont even play that lol
After playing MO2, I really have no desire to play tab combat. Even though I'm quite terrible at the combat in MO2, I'd rather continue to die horribly than go back to a no skill tab target system.
I feel you, tab targeting becomes so stale once metas have been established.
Sooooo it’s like the elder scrolls online? lol
6:03 Pardon my French, but fuck no.
I see nothing wrong with that, not necessarily a blanket damage increase but a damage modifier based on hitboxes and armour type mebbe
@@mobtek Okay, more hitboxes gets added-Do you really think you can hit something of value in this seemingly very fast paced game? What are you going to do when some fuck who is tab targeting is stab dancing around you? His camera controls don't matter.He will always get a hit.
How much time will iit take to add those hitboxes? How many of them should be added?
I don't know i still think hybrid gives a lot of space for the devs tk have a way harder time balancing stuff specially when they are literally associating the possibility to morph skills into action or tab based on skill points... We will end up with players simply choosing what the meta/cookie cutter builds tell them to do and it's more often then not going to be tab for simplicity basically removing the need for action mode all together... I think mmos need to stick with either one or the other and not go hybrid, hybrid for me as always either fail to actually feel action and feel more like tsb with smart target (this is not the same as true action) also action combat in MMOs has a lot to explore yet, think of other non MMO with action combat that we can draw ideas from... Imagine having a for honor system and the combos are the skills you can make or characters have, like a fireball could be a heavy cast + light cast Combo etc... there is a lot to explore outside the typical tab/dark souls combat or hybrid of two
This poor little boy.... 😂
Its infuriating when people say actioncombat is better than tabtargetting in an MMO. If this game wants to have any semblance of PvP, it MUST lean heavily into tabtarget ofcourse with a healthy amount of skillshots. Actioncombat PvP has always, without fail, produced the most degenerate combat patterns imaginable. Take a long hard look at Dark and Darker and the degenerate defying of physics, impossible gyration and contortion of models, and how unimmersive it is.
Yes, tabtargetting has less skill expression, but it has been tested and proven that a game can be balanced around it. It is very understandable to have melee be action-combat when its basically a wide swing, cleaving and not being able to miss a target, that being said again, take a look at how Dark and Darker handles it with melee classes playing limbo at the knee with each other and covering their stomachs with their shields to become virtually immune, which is the form of gameplay u do not want in a game as immersive as AoC hopes to be.
There is a really satisfying combat pattern that u can unlock by pressing the right buttons at the right time, despite being a tab targetted MMO. If the devs tap into that properly, the cleric and ranger spotlights seem to indicate they have, I seriously doubt anyone would have a problem with their decision on making it a hybrid.
i miss the combat of TERA, BDO have something like it(the bad part is grab), i skip a lot of new games because of this tab target combat
i play over 24 years mmorpg,but let be honest tab is shit compare to action for reason,but let see how hybrid combat will work in AoC!I like dinamic combat,fast movement,and combo skills like in BDO!For now what ashes show us looks really good i hope cast spells wont be too slow bcs we talk about PvP game!
Tab targeting would exist even if the internet wasn't a hinderance in the 90s. It's an MMORPG. Twitch skills shouldn't be coming into play. You build the character through stats. When you play DnD you're not adding your real life twitch skills into the game. It's all stats vs stats and making intelligent decisions. Another example, no twitch skills in chess. It's all intelligence and making the correct logical decision in whatever scenario you find yourself in whether it be PVP or PVE.
I play a variety of games that are tab or action. None of them put a sour taste in my mouth. What does is gameplay that does not feel smooth. If intrepid does tab I will play. If they do action I will play. They choose the hybrid.... I will play. Just make the combat feel smooth and polished
For PVE, action combat creates a static stale, stand in place attack for melee players. Super boring. For PVP there is a benefit for being able to dodge range attacks when the game lacks skill to quickly close the gap onto them. Tab target, is fun for moving and jumping and just getting used to you button rotation. I prefer a tab target for pvp IF the game proves more than 3 buttons to mash. Games like WoW and Aion, had a heavy list of skills and the winner was typically the person who knew the correct rotation of skills. If you just stand there and don't move and button mash, on tab target, then your a bot
any game with tab target is boring as fuck, thanks for saving me some money on this trash game
You didn’t watch it then.
this is better than most, bad as always for me. Even new world had a actual aim and shoot system. Games like Conan, Rust, Ark, etc have better bows than most mmo, and games like Mortal Online and dark and darker have the best
Interesting this is treated as such a big deal. "Action gameplay," i.e. aiming, has been used in most tab target mmos since the internet got decently fast. Try an AoE in most of them. I predict this will be a minor blip in terms of drawing new or pleasing multiple players and demographics.
Bottom line, RPG players like non skill based gameplay and so won't like this, action players will.
Forgive me, my usage of the term action in the final sentence was in the more general sense. action games like Mario and megaman, and such. not in the MMO specific sense of aiming.
the combat just looks so bad
@@danieljusto2741 what MMO combat do you consider is good?
The option to switch skills from tab to action is not a thing anymore. Enveus scribes are gonna scold you for spreading missinformation.
Interesting. Where was this said?
tab target has no reasom to exist....get better internet, its an ONLINE game... CSGO doesn't have tab target
Csgo only needs to manage what, 32 people, per sever. Not hundreds.
(This isn't a client side problem, it's a server side problem)
@@justinwhite2725 Tera online, Vindictus, Azera online and many others had no tab target back in 2007, and some started development even earlier.