Having played Tab primarily in MMOs since first MMO, I approve. All I would suggest is that they include collision effects. In DAoC, the arrows and the strongest ranged spells (bolts) were all treated as objects subject to collision. This meant they could be blocked, both by RNG and by someone literally blocking the shot by getting in the way. Made it basically pointless to shoot at a guy with a shield, or target a squishy in the middle of a group. Greatly increased combat.
@@RyveGenesis The combat in this game and their direction reminds me a lot more of DAoC than GW2. Pretty positive the two primary inspirations are DAoC and Archeage.
Imo tab target is a thing of the past... I played Archage, wow etc and when i switched to non tab based like Tera, Bdo etc then going back to tab targeted just feels slow and boring. Just my opinion/experience. Game looks ok, but combat looks a bit off to be honest. I will probably give it a shot, when it's in beta (if there is an open beta) but i am not excited
@@RyveGenesis Hey nice video! new sub here. Did you ever play the MMO Silk Road online?. Their Caravan system was probably the biggest part of the game and it was actually EPIC. It will be interesting to see how important this part of the game be.
@@NoahfromEarthThanks for the sub! I didn't play Silk Road, but I've heard of it. With SRO launching in 2004 I could see a lot of MMOs having been inspired by it as it was probably one of the first MMOs with a Caravan system of some sort.
OMFG YES... your merch better include DIRT !.! I would totally buy DIRT from you. shipping poopy dirt might cause problems though o.O certain microbes aren't allowed to cross the boarder. Approx where is your Dirt from?
You make good points, TY for posting. Main point (for me) is to agree that so much goes into the combat system of an MMO, design for tab or action really is only one part of the overall play-feel. The potential for AoC is palpable. And yet, no evaluation makes sense without hands-on experience -- specifically my own hands.
Just started following AoC, having played Wow and before that Everquest. These guys have thought out most of their MMO systems and you can tell their past exp with MMOs with the decisions they made. But the biggest letdown so far with this game is the tab targeting for me. Next gen MMO like this should of really adopted a Dark Souls, Elden Ring type system. Tab targeting can be interesting, and engaging depending on the mobs IQ/abilities/tactics, so hopefully they get that piece right.
You forgot Crafting your build, It takes a lot of skill to recognize what your own strengts and weaknesses are for the character your playing, and emphasise your strengts and nullify your weaknesses.
Yep, tactical/strategic verse twitchy. Seems the more twitchy the less tactical, though that doesn't have to be the case. Anyway, there's really so much that many don't do that I consider a must in TAB or 'action' PvP, like panning the camera to see if more are adding as you fight. You have to be dialed in on how to fight and tactics based on opponent classes to pull off looking around as you fight. And, of course, no matter how the combat is there are always those who just hit the tank and rarely go for healers/squishies... especially angering when they are range class. Basically, TAB or action doesn't matter when you make poor tactical decisions. And there's always 'twitch' involved as the combat unfolds: positioning/new possible targets/how to survive or peel/etc., all have to be quickly considered and acted on to gain an edge or switch to a more defensive stance. Too many just want to spam and blame loses on 'lack of healing'.
Yeah, sadly like with many things Steven kinda confused people with his speaking skill selling mostly normal tab-target as something special, I do not know Tab-target MMO which doesn't have some additional templates, AoE, cone, radial or other specific type of skill.
Action camera has a hard lock. You won't miss your shot. It's look at the target and right click or enter cursor mode, point at target and left click. Almost identical mechanics to ESO and no one calls that tab.
Yes, it does. GW2 also had a similar thing with it's action camera. But still, TAB camera is used much more since you can use your cursor without having to turn the camera off first
Weird video. Having played both quite a bit, I'd say tab has a much higher skill cap, but a lot of that depends on the class tools you are given. Action is definitely more accessible for new players. There's a reason it is called Button Smashing or Hack-n-Slash.
Lol it really felt like you talked up tab target difficulty. LoS and CC chaining. Every class has their 1 CC everyone call out target in 3’s. Rotate CC’s on healer. Cooooool
That's cool with me but with tab target and with the PvP anyone might make it an extremely successful very niche type of game and maybe not enough people will play it. i cant see gen z playing it at all which is a win in many ways but not really
0:10 "its tab" sweet dont need to watch the rest of the video. AoC hasnt been looking promising at all and this seals the deal for me. lol back to BDO since no developers can make a good mmo anymore it seems. that sucks
Action combat will be every time more skilled because you are the reason if you miss or hit. Evasion and the fact that you can lock a spell and it touch every time the enemy it's just RNG + assisted gameplay. You make strategies and think about spells, when you hit CC and burst windows, do min maxing too or watch ability animations. Everything you do with tab, you do in action too, but you do even more. Facts are Tab is more easy aka unskilled but there is obviously still skill expression. I hope it will at least help the game attract more ppl and E-girls. It's sad to not have more action combat on AoC, but imo I will still play it.
@@RyveGenesis for sure there more spells in tab target, but how does more spells mean more skill? You never use more than maybe 6 usually, the rest is very specific. + Imo that's one of the reasons for the downfall of wow, too much skills, too much utilities. Lesser optional skills or just only impactful skills are better. And what do you mean the rest is less. There is no more minmaxing or everything you mentioned in New World than Wow. And we can argue more CC is less skillful. When you can 100-0 on a lucky CC it's just RNG. AoC is already lil bit more skillful cause objects can block spells. There is more skill in hitting an hitbox than locking and pressing a key. I'm on crazy pills saying that ? I don't know you guys but loving the game is one thing, being delusional is another. Can we stay in the real world?
@@DonJoe-n2d I never said TAB requires more skill. Just that it is not completely devoid of skill. Unless you are taking RuneScape, then it is all RNG and no skill. But AA, GW2, WOW and some other TAB systems do require skill, otherwise everyone would be Grandmaster and at the top of the leaderboards.
@@RyveGenesis I said on my first com, "obviously there is still skill expression", but relatively to different gameplay, there is less and some of the ppl here in comms or a bit your vid is trying to cope comparing it to action combat. In first MMOs it was a technical limit, that's why is used in every mmo. Nowadays is sad to limit ourselves and our games
brother u are gonna be 60 when (if) this game even releases stop being cringe and making content about a game that were not gonna play in the next 101 years, find another niche this is too cringe
Thanks!
Appreciate it!
Thank you for clearing this up!
Having played Tab primarily in MMOs since first MMO, I approve.
All I would suggest is that they include collision effects.
In DAoC, the arrows and the strongest ranged spells (bolts) were all treated as objects subject to collision. This meant they could be blocked, both by RNG and by someone literally blocking the shot by getting in the way. Made it basically pointless to shoot at a guy with a shield, or target a squishy in the middle of a group. Greatly increased combat.
Player and projectile collision are definitely a thing in Ashes, just like DAoC, Archeage, etc.
@@RyveGenesis The combat in this game and their direction reminds me a lot more of DAoC than GW2. Pretty positive the two primary inspirations are DAoC and Archeage.
Imo tab target is a thing of the past... I played Archage, wow etc and when i switched to non tab based like Tera, Bdo etc then going back to tab targeted just feels slow and boring. Just my opinion/experience. Game looks ok, but combat looks a bit off to be honest. I will probably give it a shot, when it's in beta (if there is an open beta) but i am not excited
Great analysis. Earned a sub!
Thanks!
Great video my dude! =)
I second that, Ryve,
Thank you very much.
I have hardly any experience outside EQ1 almost 20 years ago, so this discussion was very useful for me.
Very informative video, my guy. Great work.
Tab with cleaves is peak MMO combat and nothing will ever change my mind about it 💅
I think I forgot to include melee cleave somehow lol. But yes, I think it adds a lot as well
You mean lazy 🤣
@@RyveGenesis Hey nice video! new sub here. Did you ever play the MMO Silk Road online?. Their Caravan system was probably the biggest part of the game and it was actually EPIC. It will be interesting to see how important this part of the game be.
@@NoahfromEarthThanks for the sub! I didn't play Silk Road, but I've heard of it. With SRO launching in 2004 I could see a lot of MMOs having been inspired by it as it was probably one of the first MMOs with a Caravan system of some sort.
OMFG YES... your merch better include DIRT !.! I would totally buy DIRT from you. shipping poopy dirt might cause problems though o.O certain microbes aren't allowed to cross the boarder. Approx where is your Dirt from?
In the dirty, poopy, Midwest
dam :( we only accept Canadian Dirt here...
Good. Tab targeting works. 😊
You make good points, TY for posting.
Main point (for me) is to agree that so much goes into the combat system of an MMO, design for tab or action really is only one part of the overall play-feel. The potential for AoC is palpable.
And yet, no evaluation makes sense without hands-on experience -- specifically my own hands.
Agreed
love me some tab combat
Is there 1st person in AOC?? All I've seen is 3rd person prespective?
Not really, more 3rd person
Just started following AoC, having played Wow and before that Everquest. These guys have thought out most of their MMO systems and you can tell their past exp with MMOs with the decisions they made. But the biggest letdown so far with this game is the tab targeting for me. Next gen MMO like this should of really adopted a Dark Souls, Elden Ring type system. Tab targeting can be interesting, and engaging depending on the mobs IQ/abilities/tactics, so hopefully they get that piece right.
Merci !
Thanks!
You forgot Crafting your build, It takes a lot of skill to recognize what your own strengts and weaknesses are for the character your playing, and emphasise your strengts and nullify your weaknesses.
Agreed
I mean everybody does that today
Yep, tactical/strategic verse twitchy. Seems the more twitchy the less tactical, though that doesn't have to be the case. Anyway, there's really so much that many don't do that I consider a must in TAB or 'action' PvP, like panning the camera to see if more are adding as you fight. You have to be dialed in on how to fight and tactics based on opponent classes to pull off looking around as you fight. And, of course, no matter how the combat is there are always those who just hit the tank and rarely go for healers/squishies... especially angering when they are range class. Basically, TAB or action doesn't matter when you make poor tactical decisions. And there's always 'twitch' involved as the combat unfolds: positioning/new possible targets/how to survive or peel/etc., all have to be quickly considered and acted on to gain an edge or switch to a more defensive stance. Too many just want to spam and blame loses on 'lack of healing'.
Yeah, sadly like with many things Steven kinda confused people with his speaking skill selling mostly normal tab-target as something special, I do not know Tab-target MMO which doesn't have some additional templates, AoE, cone, radial or other specific type of skill.
Action camera has a hard lock. You won't miss your shot. It's look at the target and right click or enter cursor mode, point at target and left click.
Almost identical mechanics to ESO and no one calls that tab.
Yes, it does. GW2 also had a similar thing with it's action camera. But still, TAB camera is used much more since you can use your cursor without having to turn the camera off first
Autumn is coming.
Aoc has the best CS of all mmo times
Excellent video. I'm quite excited to play AoC for 30 days before quitting the game when it releases in 2028!
😂
This makes me even more sad that new world ended up being so trash. I really like the fact that everything was skill shot based ESPECIALLY for pvp.
I knew poop was important
Weird video. Having played both quite a bit, I'd say tab has a much higher skill cap, but a lot of that depends on the class tools you are given. Action is definitely more accessible for new players. There's a reason it is called Button Smashing or Hack-n-Slash.
👍
Passive dodge like in Daoc. I hate New worlds dodge,dodge roll dodge roll...and on and on and on.
Lol it really felt like you talked up tab target difficulty. LoS and CC chaining. Every class has their 1 CC everyone call out target in 3’s. Rotate CC’s on healer. Cooooool
True
That's cool with me but with tab target and with the PvP anyone might make it an extremely successful very niche type of game and maybe not enough people will play it. i cant see gen z playing it at all which is a win in many ways but not really
Could be
Tab just works better.
Sometimes
2:20 that is untrue
Explain
0:10 "its tab" sweet dont need to watch the rest of the video. AoC hasnt been looking promising at all and this seals the deal for me. lol back to BDO since no developers can make a good mmo anymore it seems. that sucks
Fair enough
AOC is doa...the most popular mmos are action combat mmos.
ooo look a troll
You realize that WoW is still on top right?
🧐
Action combat will be every time more skilled because you are the reason if you miss or hit. Evasion and the fact that you can lock a spell and it touch every time the enemy it's just RNG + assisted gameplay.
You make strategies and think about spells, when you hit CC and burst windows, do min maxing too or watch ability animations. Everything you do with tab, you do in action too, but you do even more.
Facts are Tab is more easy aka unskilled but there is obviously still skill expression. I hope it will at least help the game attract more ppl and E-girls.
It's sad to not have more action combat on AoC, but imo I will still play it.
Action tends to have less of the other stuff I mentioned. Reason is, less skills and higher cooldowns
This game have really ugly characters, e-girls want to play as attractive ones
@@RyveGenesis for sure there more spells in tab target, but how does more spells mean more skill? You never use more than maybe 6 usually, the rest is very specific. + Imo that's one of the reasons for the downfall of wow, too much skills, too much utilities. Lesser optional skills or just only impactful skills are better.
And what do you mean the rest is less. There is no more minmaxing or everything you mentioned in New World than Wow. And we can argue more CC is less skillful. When you can 100-0 on a lucky CC it's just RNG.
AoC is already lil bit more skillful cause objects can block spells.
There is more skill in hitting an hitbox than locking and pressing a key.
I'm on crazy pills saying that ? I don't know you guys but loving the game is one thing, being delusional is another. Can we stay in the real world?
@@DonJoe-n2d I never said TAB requires more skill. Just that it is not completely devoid of skill. Unless you are taking RuneScape, then it is all RNG and no skill. But AA, GW2, WOW and some other TAB systems do require skill, otherwise everyone would be Grandmaster and at the top of the leaderboards.
@@RyveGenesis I said on my first com, "obviously there is still skill expression", but relatively to different gameplay, there is less and some of the ppl here in comms or a bit your vid is trying to cope comparing it to action combat.
In first MMOs it was a technical limit, that's why is used in every mmo. Nowadays is sad to limit ourselves and our games
brother u are gonna be 60 when (if) this game even releases stop being cringe and making content about a game that were not gonna play in the next 101 years, find another niche this is too cringe
Don't watch?
@@RyveGenesis ofc i didnt watch, i just came here to sh1t on ur deulded head
Thanks! Does this mean we are friends?