History of WWI Primer 027: British Pattern 14 Documentary
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Othais and Mae delve into the story of this WWI classic. Complete with history, function, and live fire demonstration.
C&Rsenal presents its WWI Primer series; covering the firearms of this historic conflict one at a time in honor of the centennial anniversary. Join us every other Tuesday!
Cartridge: .303
Capacity: 5 rnds
Length: 46.25"
weight: 9.4 lbs
Additional reading:
The US Enfield
Ian Skennerton
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Music provided by Melissa Hyman of The Moon and You
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Safe range space thanks to Shoot Logic
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Additional photos thanks to Rock Island Auction
Ammunition data thanks to DrakeGmbH
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I actually own one of these with the volley sights that I found (!) in a wall of my summer house that I was renovating in Estonia. I was amazed firstly to find it then to see the condition of it which was used but in fine condition. When I dismantled it for a thorough cleaning, I discovered that it retained about 90% of it's original bluing with wear only on the muzzle where the bayonet would be attached, the butt plate and trigger guard. After cleaning the hardened grease from the bolt and receiver, the action was as smooth as any would expect from a modern Mauser sporter. Marked RE and '17, this 99-year-old weapon still raises eyebrows on those that have seen and held it. Thanks for this thorough and entertaining video that filled in all the blanks on a, for me, previously unknown rifle.
Dang. Lucky.
No kidding. I wish I knew something about how and when Estonians received these weapons. I'm guessing it was during the second war to use against the Russians but the house is from the 1800's so maybe the first WW as well. I have no idea. It was obviously hidden during the Russian occupation but maybe from an earlier time as well.
munched55
The Baltic states received a lot of aid from Britain and most of the P14's went to Latvia/Estonia. It was likely secreted in the wall when the Soviets attacked.
I appreciate the responses. Thank you very much. It's my in-laws (I call them the outlaws) that are Estonian and they are as a nation, very liberty minded, which I admire, but with a population of only about a million, they've tended to get pushed around a lot and under the Soviets, about 20,000 people of social influence including my father-in-law, were sent to Siberian gulags. In our family, the P14 is now a symbol of their resistance and asked that I pass on to you their appreciation as well for the background info.
@@munched55 Estonian army went partly over to the P14 Enfield, and the Latvians went fully. In 1939 when Kaitseliit was mobilized the soldiers were given the P14 rifles
Even back in the day, Johnathan Ferguson, the keeper of firearms and artillery at the Royal Armouries Museum in the UK, which houses thousands of iconic weapons from throughout history, was helping make awesome content on TH-cam for us old gun nerds. What a boss
Othias and Mae, another fantastic presentation. Top quality and effortlessly watched. One thing came to mind as it went along was the adage that an Army prepares for the next war by planning for the last one.... The P14 really was the product of the Boer War and your video brings that to light as it explores the background of this rifle. Here's an interesting point. The rifle is a product of being the recipient of long range and damaging rifle fire.. i.e. something that would better match what they had faced in SA... The British soldier shot out to 800 yds in his annual qualification before the Boer War.... By 1914 he was only shooting to 600... Perceived combat ranges diminished while they worked on a weapon that would make it easier to engage at longer ones.... Interesting paradox. As usual, great clip. Nice to see Matt out with his Mk IV...
It always seems like the left and right hands are separated on these things. Like the long barrel requirement on the RSC 1917 in case they wanted to fire in lines....
Both this & the SMLE were products of that war. The Indian Army lobby took one set of lessons from it (short, handy, medium range rifle), the 'Bisley lobby' took another (Mauser-inspired, long range target rifle). See Matthew Ford's PhD thesis online.
Jon, thanks for that great reference. Working my way through it now...
Othias, do you have a reference for that? I'd be interested in reading more about it. Cheers.
britishmuzzleloaders
I believe I found it in Proud Promise, although some of that is mixed in with Honor Bound and a French title on bolt actions. All by Jean Houn.
So the small arms committee was not for alligators, crocodiles and T-rex's..?... disappointing to say the least.
Add Abelisauridae to that list too.
a bullpup bolt action...? that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. I love it. I want a modern version.
right?
joh joh there is one
joh joh desert tech srs
Seemed hard to hold though?
There was a prototype bull pup made using the Model 1903 Springfield
~0:50 _"it chambers the .303 cartridge"
[the cartridge listed on the white screen as this is said is 7.2x60mm, implying that .303 = 7.2x60mm and/or that the Pattern 14 is chambered in 7.2x60mm]
.303 is 7.7x56R
.276 Enfield is 7.2x60mm
AFAIK, the P13 is the original rifle, chambered in .276, and the P14 is the version which is chambered in .303.
Prubbs thank you I noticed that as well and was like he screwed up the Kings caliber. The nerve of this man
@@NickYatesFH45 : lol, wasn’t .303 caliber developed during the last few years of Queen Victoria? Wouldn’t that make it “the Queen’s caliber”? 🤣😁🤪
@@samy7013 Belay my last. the Queens caliber
@@NickYatesFH45 : 😁👍
I, as a token Brit here in North America will nominate myself as 'fan', great stuff you do and we really do appreciate the understated humour you chaps put into these productions. So thank you, what!
For a second when I heard "Long Lee" I expected to see the Ghost of Sam Hughes to visit and say it is the best rifle ever, despite carrying it for miles.
"why change anything really?"
The more episodes I viewed, the more impressed I am. Great series.
Yet again outstanding, simply the best channel on TH-cam bar none. Both witty and informative at the same time and with the best two presenters on the web. What more can i say other than please never stop making these videos. I love you guys!!!
no i luv u
Love the music while Mae is shooting,
and good job researching, I was amazed you managed to conjure up some mock up design of the prototype rifle.
We are probably way off but it is a good way to discuss it's features we know.
You guys are turning into my new favourite channel after Mr Harrell's. Forgotten Weapons no doubt is an equally great channel but you offer significantly more detailed insights by comparison. I feel it's because of your unique and immersive format. Great job, guys! 👍
Great video, as always. I continue to be impressed by the level of detail and breadth of information you provide to your viewers! The disclaimer about history vs. fun shooting was appreciated.
Proud to say, I've got a P14. The OEM stock was broken beyond repair, but at the time, Gun Parts had some originals in stock, so I got one. I can therefore honestly say that mine is a true, original P14, even though I finished the bare-wood stock to my own preferences; a bit lighter in color with more shine, since I didn't have to hide in a trench knee-deep in water while being shot at.
I hope you keep these coming, years to come. Thank you C&Rsenal!
Well we cleared one so far!
My new favorite channel on TH-cam. I’ve slowly been chipping away at all these episodes.
New content on this channel is like fresh water from a cool spring on a scorching day. Thank you.
I swear if Mae shows up with a babbling pun she is fired
Kudos on the thoroughly enjoyable nature of this and the following companion 1917 episode. These are hands down my favorite rifles of the bolt action battle rifle era, followed closely by the 03A3 and No4 Mk1. Y'all have made such a habit out if excellence.
you can see how this was a step to the number 4 the number 4/5 rear sight for me was perfection
Smellie is not amused at these shenanigans! I swear I heard my 1916 BSA ShtLe yell out the colonies are rowdy today followed by the P14 belting out the star spangled banner.... and the ross in-between the two is making sure they don't come to blows. But seriously great work Othais and crew, y'all do good!
Glad you enjoyed it!
(Me as he pulls out a SMLE) "Oh yes YE- wait, what? No,no,nonono fuck."
The what now?
The statement is incredibly coherent, he's saying he said "yes, wait no" when you pulled out the SMLE. SMLE in this particular context stands for Standard Military Lube Ewer.
Jon Asgaeroth Duh, what else would SMLE stand for?
Freshbreeze In some circles it means Short Mag Lee Enfield, but in this particular context I choose to believe it means Standard Military Lube Ewer.
Every episode is welcomed like a surprise visit by an old friend with a new toy.
My club has a 600 foot rifle range. If you're ever in Mid Michigan look me up!
Man, I hope I never get THAT lost.
Big appreciation for amount and quality of work you put into those videos. Great work!
"...and Mae enjoys none of it." Yeah right... :D
Also loving the new hair cut!
Ah, soothing the soul by means of a new in depth video from C&Rsenal. You guys are better than antidepressants.
Thanks for posting!
Glad you're happy with this one
Hi from South Africa, i recently bought a P14, specifically ERA. A beaut that shoots perfectly. Has Parker Hale volley sights and a new Musgrave barrel. Cheers mate.
These rifle bios are ridiculous. Museums should be paying you for this content to use at their displays.
Magnificent work 👏
"This is history. It's super serious business and May enjoys none of it."
It's the little things that makes TH-cam videos fun.
Sometimes she has fun so we put a sack on her head until she seriouses up again.
Not with a Pattern 14 I hope
You do what now?
i bet she funs that too!
Needs to be straight pull and designed by Mr. Ross....
shilelea lol
Do you mean Sir. Ross?
shilelea Oui.
That should have been a demand !
The greatest couple I have ever seen discussing firearms. Great job.
Thanks!
One of the best episodes so far guys, and not just because I pop up at the end...
so cute
I love how Othais ribs a bit at the SMLEboys...😂
Also the fact that eventually both the US and UK ended up adopting or planning to adopt the Mauser system reaffirms that the Mauser system is the king of bolt systems...👍😜
The US had already adopted the Mauser system with the 1903. I believe they were quite satisfied with the Mauser.
Because it is the king. Even today nearly every hunting or sniper rifle is a mauser rifle.
What is the definition of a Mauser system?
Don't tell me it's a cat.
when he says no one cares about Lee Enfield, I felt like I want to mad minute him!
Its satire you know...
Idk about real life but the Lee enfield is trash in Verdun.
Define "trash".
Indeed...
I'm hoping he does one on the long Lee too.
Oh Othias, you troll.
Seriously though I need the SMLE in my life.
@@jerrywood1582 To be fair, the 303 was designed for war use, not hunting bears.
@@jerrywood1582 The 7 mm Mauser killed the bear after it had been shot twelve times before? That's not conclusive evidence in favour of its killing ability. Did the unfortunate chap shoot the bear, or at the bear?
Othias, you should be ashamed of yourself for forcing Mae to do something she clearly does not like. Hehehe....
So much torture.
Another great episode Othias and Mae. Quality content indeed.
Bravo.
Thank you!!
Really digging the period music during Mae's shooting scene! Another great vid!
Special thanks to the FB gang on that one.
I got my first Patt14 when I was 15 yrs old. Am 57 now , so do the math. Anyhow a schoolmate's dad was a B17 pilot in england. He traded an old english homeguard fellow some whiskey and food for that Patt14 rifle and promptly mailed it home. I bought it for a princely sum of $165 dollars . All my buddies thought I paid too much for any 303 let alone that one. But I had enough reading under my belt that I knew a patt14 in unmolested original trim without import marks was a rare bird. I still have this 12k serial ERA made rifle. It's wood is in superb unsanded finish with a bore so clean..and brother it can shoot !. I even used marbles cartridge converters in it for 32 S&W and it brought many a squirrel back to the frying pan !. At the feb'24 SOS a dealer had a patt14 asking $3250.00...I shit you not !. He claimed minty gun, and matching. Bolt matched but the blue seemed darker than my example and the wood had for sure been cleaned and refinished as its pores were opened , stain applied and the shiny sheen nowhere near original. I pointed this out the "knowledgeable" dealer and he got rather arrogant and told me I dont know squat. Then I pointed out the wood putty repair to the toe at butt plate that was oddly under the finish. He tried to pontificate out of that conundrum like a thief caught. Cant stand these fraud profiteers !. In the end I am ever more confidant in my $165 purchase many years ago has paid off.
Wow! Mae’s hair when she describes the rifle is great!
I recently purchased one of these, an Eddystone, it's a nail driver
This is by far, my favorite british rifle of WWI/WWII. Thanks guys!
Glad you liked it!
YES THIS EPISODE IS FINALLY HERE! I've always enjoyed your look at these interesting weapons. The ross rifle video if done by almost anybody else probably would've been a bit bland (and this is coming from a gun and history enthusiast!) but the Ross Rifle video was intensely entertaining while still being informative. Same thing for all your videos. Keep up the good work you guys are one of my favorite channels!
wait, I'm NOT bland?
Honestly no you arent
This series should be required curriculum in elementary school. Historical firearms education FTW! That whole part of Mae talking about the fat belly might have to be edited out for schools though, sounded like she was talking about love handles.
Great episode can't wait till the next!! An old highschool friend of mines grandfather has an absolutely gorgeous sporterized example of the 1917 action that sits in a nice and comfy monte carlo stock, every time he comes into town for the holidays I try to make a point to visit him at grandparents where we both drool over this rifle and admire his grandpas large game mounts and the hunting stories that accompany them.
sweet.
As a British Re-enactor and a secret Mauser fan I would love one of these as the Winchester 1918 (sniper) pattern. It's a magnificent weapon.
I own an Enfield and I can confirm extraction issues over time. I bought it from a local shop I'm am aquainted witth and the next day shot it with failure to extract almost every shot. I came inb the day after to ask for help and they just gave me a bolt off of the other Enfield they had in stock and swapped it. Next shooting proved bad extraction again. I took it back and we looked at both bolt assemblies and the extracter was worn dorn on both. Had to buy a new one.
YAY! I've been waiting on this episode for a while now and you did not disappoint (although at this point I don't think you could even if you tried).
Also nice to see footage from my country at 18:03, because I'm guessing that is the Irish Civil War.
love you Jonathan!
Good in-depth history of this rifle, previously only to be found in print. I have several hard-back books dating back to the 70's and 80's that are the only sources other than this video that provide this much information (and this video actually has more than all of them combined). I own one of these rifles (Eddystone arsenal) that I acquired nearly 30 years ago and it has the original bayonet and a heavy, fabric sling with what seems to be adjusters made of some light alloy. I believe these were scavenged at a later date from a P-17 but I could be wrong. It lacks the volley sight pieces.
I agree with Mae in everything she said about this rifle except that I am larger and heavier so the recoil is even less of an issue for me and I think of mine as a "soft" shooter. The sight radius she talks about gets even more important as you age and your eyes don't focus at close ranges like they used to. That rear aperture is superb. I can pick up a target with this even more quickly than I can with an AR-15 carbine.
Thanks for the piece, I enjoyed it.
Man these early Primers were rough! Seriously though, I've got a Pattern 14 and I LOOOOOOOVE it.
I own a model 1 mark3 star and a model 4 mark 1 ...both shoot amazing....I've used the first to hunt for years with great success...I'd buy another one any time
Great episode! I am loving every other Tuesday!
The alternate Tuesdays are CRAP
Well there's no point in getting greedy is there?
The P series guns are excellent for building custom guns. Built a 458 Winchester with a P 14 and a wildcat 30 Gibbs and a heavy barrel thumb-hole stock 25/06 with the P17. Mae is right about the trigger a little polishing and they become very smooth and easy to control for accurate shooting.
I shot my recently purchased P14 at the range today...It's a beautiful gun, just trying to get accustomed to the sights...Your videos are by far the most detailed & thoughtful gun related videos I've ever seen..keep up the excellent work!
Thanks!
Got to love the Bell's case as I live 10 minutes away here in Kalamazoo. Great work guys!
I have owned an Edison 1916 P14 303 rifle for quite some time, it still has its volley sights. I traced its ownership but only from the 1940's when it was issued to a London Home Guard Unit,( stamp marks on stock disc ). I shoot it on a regular basis on our local rifle range where we are only permitted to shoot reduced powder loads to comply with range velocity & energy. I do from time to time shoot factory ammunition on farm land I shoot over, it still throws a tight group, no doubt the rifle has had little use before I acquired it. It sits in my rifle cabinet with my Army & Navy Martini Henry 303 and my 1896 Army & Navy 303 Lee Speed Sporting rifle. These old rifles who were looked after are well worth acquiring, load your own ammunition, they are a joy to shoot.
Now we’re using period music in the shooting segments. I love seeing the growth of the show on my second and third times through primer.
I just inherited a P14 in great condition. I too will be shooting mine in the great state of South Carolina!
awesome
"super serious business and Mae enjoys none of it" Why is this my favorite channel? that's why
Great episode the history filled a couple of gapes I had also Mae you rock with the new hair style
Just one point regarding the number of men in the British army, the expansion between the start of the war and the end of 1915 was all through men volunteering to serve, conscription, the draft, wasn’t introduced until 1916.
Great stuff, thank you C&Rsenal! Time to hit that play button. :-)
I was gonna say... it's been 6 minutes...
P14 videos are few and far between. Most of the ones that I've seen on YT focused on the M1917, hence my joy at seeing this. :)
Firefly I was pretty surprised at how scarce the info was
Same here. Finding anything on the .276 Enfield is almost an impossibility.
Very happy to be an American Anglophile; I own a Pattern 14 that for some obscure reason escaped the loss of the volley sight. I have been very happy with the rifle and its accuracy. I can’t figure how to fire the volley sights just to see how accurate it is in this mode compared to my SMLEs. My companion piece is a M1917 in the standard US round .30-06. These two rifles are wonderfully accurate and hard hitting service rifles.
awesome as always! my prediction for the next episode? the moschetto modello 91 per cavalleria. for sure.
Soon though. Riccio sent us an advance copy of his book
Can't wait to see the workhorse of world War 1 America in the next 2 weeks! loved this video and heavily anticipating the next one, thank you for the awesome videos!
Thanks for watching!
War were declared
Continuing the tease with the SMLEs. BOO! BOO I SAY!
Love you guys really!
We haven't done the long lees even.
And there's a whole bunch of Machineguns, too...
I wish I had had the foresight to get one of these when they could be had from the US Civilian Marksmanship Program for $300, just a couple of years ago. You can hardly touch one for less than 6 bills now.
Great episode. Thank you so much.
Thanks for watching
I had both a P-14 and a P-17, both by Winchester. They were "Sporterised" by my father who was a master machinist. I preferred the .303.
Great video, I love my p14, made in 1917 by winchester. the sights are amazing.
Woo
I have seen a couple photos of P14s being used in North Africa during WWII. Watch closely these two British period war flicks: NINE MEN, with Jack lambert & THE LAST BATTALION (THE WAY AHEAD) with David Niven and you will find three men carrying P14s in the rifle squad. I'm guessing they were considered the squad's sniper rifle. In my book (I am the founder of the WWII Historical Re-enactment Society), A BRIDGE TO TIME, A Re-enactor's Journey, there are some Canadian photos showing sniper training. Here too are some P14s.
when you put away that Lee, I was like,"wow dude, I care! I care!"
The what now?
Loved the humor in this episode!
WHERE WAS IT? WE WILL REMOVE ALL FUN
Mae's Haircut is on point!
That's weird... Soldiers who fired both P14 and SMLE liked the P14 more than the SMLE. The only thing they had for the SMLE was that it's more rapid firing and for the trenches, that's amazing as it holds down a line and the 10 round magazine. The P14 was more accurate and had great ergonomics.
It's possible the weirdly specific and odd numbering ordered from the American manufacturers could be because of deals being worked out in terms of round currency numbers. Particularly when considering the somewhat labyrinthine pre-decimal sterling system (12 pence in a shilling, 20 shillings in a pound, let alone the other sundry coins in use)
Possibly, or they just stopped on certain dates
Aperture sights i meant but it does also have volley sights, which is cool
I picked up one of these at a show for a friend. With Greek MXP surplus, it is a TACK DRIVER at six hundred yards. It's no wonder these found favor as sniper rifles, and later as competition rifles. I have a bare action (with the ears ground off) which I purchased to get the ejector (which is prone to breakage) to replace one that was missing from the aforementioned rifle. Some day it may get built into a hunting rifle.
We had to rebuild the ejector on the P14 actually.
Great video. You just got a new subscriber. I'm really enjoying the history of each rifle.
Good to hear!
Thank you, wonderful episode.
thanks for watching!
Top quality video well done guys ... I have one of these P14 s now i know what the markings are. Cant believe the British didn't like them. The Mauser looking bolt will last fore ever. I have been using it for hunting and did not make any modifications on it further it is in pristine condition. No volley sights though.
This video was exceptionally good, congratulations!
Thanks!
jeez, my shoulder hurts just watching Mae fire that beautiful thing.
Not so bad really. High speed makes it seem worse.
+C&Rsenal fair enough, it just looks like it hurts. I've only fired a .22 air rifle so I have no real reference point.
Thankfully Newton's equal and opposite reaction helps out with that. The heavier the gun the less recoil transferred into the shooter.
Great episode as always guys, looking forward to more.
Nice haircut Mae.
Thanks!
Have an ERA P14 made in 1917 and it's a great shooter and a personal favorite.
C&RSENAL the first enfield rifle is great just like the ww1 your talking about I study both world wars the most and know what guns were used when will you start a ww2 series
It's been too long. Mae's haircut is very nice.
Worth the wait I hope and thanks!
Love mine, shoots great and quite accurate
After the Estonian War of Independence, Estonia had 27 700 Pattern 1914 rifles. From 1922. it became standard issue rifle in EDF and between 1925-1939 ca 16 000 Pattern 1914 rifles were bought extra. On the eve of Second Wolrd war, it was a second most common rifle in EDF inventory.
Great channel. I really enjoy learning about the history and evolution of firearms. I have an Eddystone M-1917 so am very excited about the upcoming episode. I have a question about the sights it may be more applicable to the M-1917 as I am not sure if the P-14's sights are the same. My question is this: Why did they choose not to include an adjustment mechanism for windage? Just because it was zeroed at the factory, doesn't mean it will keep it and for precision work, having the windage adjustment could make a big difference. IE the Credemoor competition between the 1903 and 1917 to see which rifle the Army would retain. Maybe you can talk about it on your 1917 video.
Windage really fell out of favor just before the war. Basically all the bother and cost of producing fine adjustment for windage never played out in terms of efficiency on the battlefield. The Mausers this gun was taken from sure didn't use it.
hi, nice report, I have one and a picture of a canadian sniper using a scoped one in Monte Cassino...
This is now my favorite TH-cam channel. C&R was tied with Forgotten Weapons but Mae breaks the tie,Sorry Ian ;). After Myth Busters cut Kari Byron there was a void and Mae has filled it and then some as I believe that she really knows what she is talking about firearms wise.The Pattern Fourteen/US 1917 is just about my favorite Battle rifle. I have a Remington US 1917 and an Eddystone Pattern Fourteen. Recently shot my P 14 in honor of it turning one hundred years old(close enough). Thanks for the great videos.
Naw, we just full her lips with peanut butter and dub in the audio later.
You are so dead.
How come every time I find out on another channel a ww1 gun I never heard of I end up miraculously seeing it on here haha? I have a few guesses for the future after the next episode. M1917 revolver, Springfield rifle, lee-Enfield, or Browning. Great show guys and nice new hair cut!
I mean, we are going to try and hit them all
Great episode! But you should totally do a detailed episode on the m1903! Many Americans are familiar with the rifle but many myself included know little of its history and would love to learn!
I mean, I said we would.
Glad to hear it! I appreciate any gun you feature but you just seemed a little hesitant to feature a gun as common in the US as a 1903 and I just wanted to tell you that only makes it more interesting (m1911 video too pl0x?)😃😃😃
Henry G The delay in US and Britain is more because:
A.We partner with the great War and therefor mass batches by country.
B. Leading with popular guns would set a "down hill" for later in the series.
C. US didn't show up until late in the war
great job as always - keep on going guys, greetings from poland
The whole country?
Sure
I'm representative :PI like your channel - very well prepared staff
Othais; You need to have a serious talk with Mae. She looked like she WAS enjoying shooting that beast. I believe she was secretly dreaming of shooting a SMLE and that's why she was smiling. Where is my SMLE video? Every other week I click on your channel hoping to see "SMLE". You teased me with the Pattern 14. It was a super detailed study, which I have come to expect, but it would have been better with more SMLE. Keep up the excellent work. Keep smiling Mae; I bet Othais is getting ready for that SMLE video soon.
The what now?
A gun that looks chunkier than it feels or shoots, neat. Oh, Nice Haircut Mae!
It's big boned.
You Guys are AMAZING!!!!!
Thank you
Well done on the video as usual. I always overlooked these rifles and the 'Merican versions when ever I saw them at gun shows. I didn't know what I was doing! I thought they looked silly.
Interesting that the British had .276 Enfield pretty much developed before this war, and then the U.S. would have the .276 Pedersen almost adopted before the next world war.
They're pretty neat guns. Maybe flip the price tag next time!
I've been looking forward to this one for a while. I agree that the P14/M1917 is just a little too heavy, bulky, and long to be perfect. Keep up the great work guys!
Thanks!