I have personally seen a .4 drop on the 1/4 mile at Eastern Creek with a K&N panel filter in the standard airbox on an AE112 Corolla Sportivo Turbo. 1st week, 15.8, the very next week after fitting the filter and nothing else, ran a 15.4. 👍
On the dyno I've seen mixed results depending on car and setup.. some gains.. some losses... some exactly the same 🤣 gained half a psi once from a intake too...
I am interested to know with some of these cars that run an aftermarket induction system with a cone shaped air filter and also some of the big power Skylines which run no air filter, What effect does this have on the engine lifespan and turbo lifespan ?
Andrew, I love this video, there is a lot of truths there, but also a few inaccuracies. I've been designing Air Induction Systems for many of the big motor OEM's, (US & German), for just over 25 years now and we do a heck of a lot of CFD work on these systems from day one. Granted power is not what we are after so much, its efficiency and economics. But one point I do strongly disagree with from this video is the air flow into the compressor. We have a Gamma ration we need to meet, (the evenness of flow across the compressor face). You use the analogy of a plane engine, but have you ever seen a jet engine mounted facing upward at say 30 degree angle, or even less. NO, they are always pointed directly into the flow as the distribution of the air to the compressor is important. One big tip I can offer you, and something everyone over looks, is for the duct to be as large a Dia as possible right up to the compressor. So that diagram you drew of the Yaris, hold the ~76mm all the way around the bend and neck down to the 50mm at the last minute. This give the compressor a greater volume of air to play with, (from all directions rather than skewed to one side after and 180 bend), and before it is accelerated up and ingested and means the flow speed around the bend is a slow as possible and therefore less restrictive. (Don't forget that any change in direction, cross section, acceleration or deceleration of the air creates RESTICTION). Also swirl is a major factor that we need to manage for NVH and spool up reasons. So much so we even fit spiral swirl generators into the duct before the turbo, (something I have a couple of patents for so far ). But these have an adverse effect of creating a restriction, but something we often have to put up with to get the swirl in order. As for AFM's, one anecdote I have regarding their sensitivity and how it can throw and ECU out, when at Ford we were finding discrepancies in the AFM signal between different filters in the same car. It turned out to be the metal clip that joined the cylindrical filter paper was effecting the signal depending on where it is positioned in relation to the AFM. We ended up adding a small keyway to the filter so I could only go in in one orientation and had the filter manufacture ensure the clip was within +/- 2degrees of the CAD design. Anyway, keep up the great work Andrew and I look forward to your next episode. (I promise I won't piss on that one).
@@maiy8786 ideally you want flow as slow as possible, within reason. As for cooling effect of fast air, I've never heard of that from an induction point of view. But any cooling would be out weighed by heat soak through ducts running through hot areas.
@@Scott_GT-R - Fair call on the feed in to the turbo. As Andrew hints at, I do imagine there's turbos/setups which are more or less sensitive to the specifics of that. (@Maytricks) If you look at Bernoulli's equation you can exchange velocity for pressure/density (which has a direct relationship with temp'). But you don't get a free lunch as the velocity may notably impact pressure drop and it's impact isn't likely sufficient. This is why you generally want to keep velocities low and flow laminar as Scott mentions. As Scott correctly note, the general conclusions from anecdotal evidence is 'ok'. In addition to your comments, static pressure drop isn't a linear relationship so the linearity is an assumption, density has to be factored in to the IAT considerations against boost response, and open loop tuning means there's generally only a margin of control in the ECU to be able to compensate for cooler air (by jacking fuelling/timing). In any case, really hard to condense a fairly complex topic into an easily digestible format, so full credit to Andrew for the video.
I can say that a lot of what you said is spot on. I installed an Injen CAI on my first Audi C7 A6 3.0, and didn't see much difference in hp at all (if any). When I purchased my second C7 A6, I bought a K&N replacement for the stock filter, added a chrome intake pipe, and left the box alone. I used the same exact chip as I had on the first Audi, and everything else was the same. Never dyno'd the car, but the hp increase was definitely noticeable, the launch was way more aggressive, and the torque was up there. I don't exactly know why I purchased a CAI originally, and the cause could be from several different factors (manufacturers influence, because they looked cool, or too much Jack Daniels), who knows. The 2nd time around, I thought about it for a minute and figured those engineers at Audi know what they're doing, and I looked at the design, and it all made sense. Air is forced into the air box from the very front of the car so why did I ever take out the box and have the air come from directly inside the hot-ass engine compartment. I could kick my own ass for not seeing it earlier, but that's how we learn, I suppose.
Thanks John…you just convinced me NOT to purchase an aftermarket intake for my 2022 Genesis G70 sport prestige. I think I’m going with a Nishimoto intercooler.
There are people who can explain technical info and people who can’t !?! Andrew is a Natural Teacher, you can’t underestimate how important this is. Not sure what topic next, but I know you’ll bring it to us the best way possible ! Thank you very much.
From what I've found. Stock systems are designed to give mostly mid range torque for drivability and not much top end. A cold air kit tends to give you more top end at the cost of mid range power. Although this isn't the same for all cars.
Everything from the manufacturer is designed for the average driver, in the average city, place, speed limits & never straying from the designated MPH for the average person. To gear heads, we just want to make things go faster and more efficiently than they do from the factory - we don't want Grandma's ride - we want our ride!
Exactly, as per my comment above. The AEM cold air intake on the Toyota Matrix with the 2ZZ-ge upped the top speed 4 mph . If it did nothing but make noise like most people claim , it wouldn’t have gotten any mph difference.
On 70-80s era cars I think high flow k&n filters made a noticeable difference. Modern cars are much better designed so gains are negligible without more mods
100% agree, I had a tuner tell me to install a new suzuki air filter on my race gsxr1000 because it actually has a better power band vs a k&n which is mostly peak power designed!
K&N products are garbage in every way. Still blown away how they still have a standing in the automovie community. Nothing to do with the topic at hand. Just thought I'd put that info out
Cold air intakes work great as long as they are not sucking hot air from the engine compartment. I use a Weapon-R system on my Dart and have it connected to the factory air box so it draws cool air from inside the fender. Works like a charm according to the IAT sensor and the Dyno after tuning it.
Probably the most thorough explanation and reasoning for me not to get an aftermarket air intake piping, but get an upgrade IC on a stock car in a desert climate.
My JZX100 lost nearly 5kw at the hubs taking off the stock airbox and throwing a k&n pod filter off the MAF. Back to back dyno runs minutes apart. Of course the pod filter sounded 100x better which is all that really matters.
Thank you for that information, you helped me solve an issue on my truck that I wasn't seeking the answer here for. The AFM signal was changing the timing of my truck which was causing a check engine light because of timing... it made perfect sense when I realized the K&N air filter kit came with an air filter to put over the MAFS.
My Monster Sport carbon air intake on my Suzuki Swift Sport 1.6 (NA) brought it from 130hp before tuning (after mounting, so a little loss without tune from the 136 stock), to 154 after tuning. Quite amazed by those numbers from just an air intake! No other engine/exhaust mods done!
That's why you must install the included stickers with your intake. The stickers increase the horsepower of your motor even more making the intake more effective.
Hook up your AC to the air box and you will have 40 degree colder air, isn't that what it is all about, I don't know if the AC can give enough air to the motor though until I do it!
I love being a chemical engineer who’s taken transport phenomena and understand the equations necessary to back up all the visual assumptions! Also “turbulent” is definitely the way you described, but the smooth flow is what we’d call “laminar” flow. Helps out with solving for equations and such like Reynolds number and such🤓
My personal experience is with a 2011 F-150 with the gen1 5.0L Coyote. I added the K&N cold air system to it, and although I have no clue how much HP was gained it was definitely felt. As well as MPG increased by 1.5, pending reasonable driving. At one point I decided to go back to the stock intake with a K&N panel filter for a more sustained MPG. The MPG and HP were barely over stock levels. Needless to say I went back to the cold air system. Now 8 years later and with 225K on the truck I'm still happy with the system. The only bad point is that the oil used in the filter does go all the way through the induction system. That means it will build up and cause flow issues in time. Which in turn means complete cleaning of the induction system every so often. Would still recommend it for this ap though as it does work.
I was told by one of the aftermarket companies(which didn’t even offer a cold air intake) and a couple of very reputable Type R tuners…that the factory Honda Type R cold air intake setup just worked the best so bolting on anything aftermarket was for more noise/cosmetics. When you think about the amount of money Honda spends on research and development especially on a car such as the Type R…it makes sense.
This has been the best explanation that shows what is crucial in any intake system and not just the flow of air. Thank you well explained and it is very logical.
Very well done explanation video. This video helped me understand some of the success that I have had building a cold air intake in my street/drag truck. One of the successful things that I had not understood was the placement of the mass air sensor. I had cut a factory mount from an intake and put it where it belongs in front of the throttle body. I have learned that even the direction or orientation of a sensor can contribute to success. The mechanic that did the motor swap had mounted it in the end of a conical air filter. Another part of my success was deleting the a/c system. With the decrease in drag from the compressor and the removal of the condenser gives a clear path for air through the front grill. These changes showed up at the track keeping in mind that the density altitude was better at testing the truck went from 9s to 8.7 in an 1/8 th . More than 3 - 10th of a second increase ! Thanks again for this video. As I mentioned above it helped me understand the improvements that I had made. I already knew that it had made a huge difference but, now I understand why it worked so well.
Anytime I have used AEM cold Air intakes with Ceramic coating do create about 5 Horsepower increase thru out the range. Now when you tune it though and make huge changes to the fuel and Spark delivery then it really starts to produce over 10 to 15 HP Seen it done it dude on a Dyno.
This is very interesting, especially with regards to the air flow meter. My car, MK7 Fiesta ST had a Cobb intake installed by the previous owner that constantly threw a code, lean on idle that went away when switched back to the factory intake. This was because the cobb intake moved the location of the air flow meter from very close to the filter in the top piece of the airbox to higher up in the intake pipe. So the long term fuel trim was way over 50% all the time causing the engine light to come on. It was also located after intakes from the carbon canister which may have had an effect. What we have found out is that apparently for the US spec Fiestas, their map does not use data from the AFM, just map sensor whereas the Euro spec which we get in Australia does use the flow rates for the tune. And on our Fiesta group there is sticky notice for that warns people to not buy any intakes from US manufacturers like Cobb, K&N and Mishimoto as they just throw codes. It doesn't help that most of these companies never tested their intakes on non US cars so Aussie retailers who don't really do much research still sell them to unsuspecting customers.
That normal with 99.9 % aftermarket parts manufacturer they don’t even test for a month driving the car on road and then make fake claims
3 ปีที่แล้ว +3
Thanks for clarifying! This is exactly why I've been standoffish about buying 'cold' air intake systems that just feels like snake oil to me. A lot like the intake tornado rubbish from years ago
The other thing you have to consider is how quickly the filter will clog up with a true CAI. I had a scoop style CAI on my s2000 and it was great with a clean filter but the filter would clog up very quickly during daily driving and make the car sluggish
Was thinking of adding a CAI on my 93 4runner with the 3.4 swap but I'm on a dirt road where I live and I do mostly off road driving with that rig. I'm just guessing but I stayed away for the dust factor.
@@fightthelies4349 I have a 22re and found a 3rz swap is an extra 50 HP, inline four, Toy motor and I'm thinking free flow header/exhaust, slightly more aggressive cam and cold air intake would make an extra 60 HP over the 24re- the 3rz is like 2.7 litre over 2.4 litre, but minimal modifications compared to building a 22RE motor from scratch; there is a number of videos on YT to give you a heads up; 50-60 extra ponies and same 4 banger reliability and gas milage to boot!
This is the honest truth about intake , personally I prefer factory intake box with 3 layer foam racing filter. Looks same as factory but less restricted and most car intake box is positioned to get outside air better than aftermarket intake. Nice video keep it up
And usually there is aftermarket options to get better flow to the airbox I've seen snorkels that go over your factory intake and some that route through somewhere like your grill using aluminum sheets to guide air towards your box instead of covering it. Not sure which one is better I don't really like the idea of routing a huge snorkel right in the front of a car instead of just guiding more air
@Kuni - Kimina another theory that make me don't even believe in massive air box is that bigger intake manifold and high flow filter is more important than the diameter of the intake pipe .
The most logical explanation I have seen for CAI. Fully agree with measuring with a vacuum gauge to detect restriction. If CAI's worked across the board, the companies that sell them would demonstrate this.
Most late model cars come STOCK with a cold air intake. They draw cold air from behind the grill or inside a wheel well. The after market “Cold air intake” sits under the hood and collects HOT air. It may be less restrictive, but, it is anything but cold air. I run a stock air box with either a AEM dry drop in filter or a K&N oiled filter to open things up a bit.
I have a 2010 toyota tacoma, the first mod I did was one of those "cold air" intakes. Yes it's less restrictive and you can hear an audible throttle sound. The down side is there wasn't any noticeable mpg difference no power difference. I'm now planning to swap that intake out for more of an actual cold air intake, hopefully we'll see an actual difference.
@@joshburts1044 Why not port your AC into the air box with -40 degree air from the ambient air? cold air is what we are looking for; I don't know if the AC can supply enough air, but until I do I'll never know!
I've used several different brands, some made by same parent company, and have only seen decreased mpg, sometimes a better feel. Overall not worth the bucks for a straight stock vehicle. The only advantage has been the ability to clean and replace. Info is king, thanks for the video.
It doesn’t work when you don’t tune with it yes, but for the Audi S3, Golf R, Leon Cupra there are kits out there from REVO and APR which when tuned it does make a dramatic difference and this is because they’re closed boxes just like the OEM part but with less restriction and better temperature qualties, but just throwing one on yes I agree they do naff all ☺️✌🏻
It sounds like i will make most of my gains on a stock engine by simply adding a K and N drop in filter to the stock airbox instead of doing after market
I've increased the size and flow of every part of my intake tract. The last bottleneck left in the system is the intake runner in the cylinder head and the intake valves lol. But a set of AFR heads aren't in the budget just yet :-(
Air meters , we found we could "tune " a car sometimes by rotating the Air Flow meter in the intake system. Especially there was a bend in the tube w/in 6" , ether in front of it or behind. The meters themselves were in a 6" straight pipe . Air hugs and compresses a little at the top or outside of a bend , inside of the bend it slows down and looses pressure becouse of the air compression on top. It takes a few inches of straight pipe to even out .
Very good info. Here in the US most every "cold air" intake that I've seen isn't sealed up at all. Just pulls hot air from whatever corner of the engine bay it's mounted. All show n no go.
This is the best discussion and explanation of this topic that I’ve watched. It’s so obvious when you think about it that a dyno with a big fan blowing at a constant speed into the front of the car cannot mimic the actual on road situation where the vehicle is increasing velocity through the air as it accelerates. Great work.
I can honestly say without any doubt My w30 Mr2 with stainless and a cold air intake filter was lumpy at low RPM especially in slow traffic, however it really smoothed out as you got moving with spirited shifting and open road's Honest answer I don't think it was faster than stock, probably detrimental as it was lumpy 1st to 2nd low down.....But!!! It was a beautiful experience for my Ears, such a small 1.8 138bhp engine at revs sounded wicked, bear in mind that engine is about 4ft away from your ears, beautiful little Japanese tone absolutely loved it and it made spirited feel faster, top down by far the best smiles per gallon car I've ever owned, if it sound's fast it is fast 😀 Just enjoy life and mess with your car, taste sound and visuals do more than data on paper ever will.
Lots of good information. Businesses are in the business on UP SELLING their product to make money. It does not always equate to their claims made. I observed so many in car clubs on Facebook or other messing about pouring money in to their cars wasting it and then after also finding them experiencing problems. Hillarious! Want more power? Stick to what is proven to work. Ecu tune or a more popular option of a Pickyback unit.
Best solution is airconditioning cooled intercoolers, and very short turbo charger piping,this method is the most effective in any situation and almost every car today has air conditioning. Most "cold air intakes" are actually hot air intakes like with the 997.The only thing that misleads most people is the gain in intake noise.The louder it is the faster it appears to be.Great detailed video.👍
In my natural aspirated Mustang GT - I noticed the biggest effect of an closed Air Intake (INJEN) on any car ever! At the first 25 meters it felt in Normal Mode like it was in Track mode, so huge was the difference in throttle response. The Mustang has a directly positioned air suction from the outside! That´s the intake temperature is only 3-4 degrees Celcius more than the outside!
Did intake system testing with 5 temp sensors along intake of turbo intercooled rx-7 years back. Discovered same thing as in video. Soon as you stop, engine bay pod filter temps go up lots. But by end of third gear full noise run, made no difference after intercooler. I still went and installed 4" hose to relocate filter before intercooler out front! You didn't mention superchargers, but they are very sensitive to pre-charger intake restrictions and temperature. More so than a closed loop wastegate controlled turbo. I have cheated and spray water/meth through my roots blower. Best mod you can do for a supercharger!
very interesting vid I have a induction kit and my friend doesn't we both have the same cars and are both stage 1 mapped but mine pulls away from his as we increase our speed a i think mine can breath better at the top end of the revs
Would be good to try a drop in performance filter on that 996 to see how it compares to the cone and stock paper filter. Personally think if it’s a well designed intake system a drop in filter is usually the way to go especially with NA cars as the penalty for sucking in hot air through a cone will loose power
There was one a few years ago with aftermarket intakes for VW and Audi. Can't remember who the manufacturer was but they changed the thickness of the piping. OD was the same but ID increased. People who had the original version raved about how good the intake was but those that got the revised model absolutely hated them. Fuel trims were out, they ran roughly, had hesitation on acceleration. All because they ID had changed by 1 - 2mm which meant that the MAF signal was messed up.
What a great informative well put together video presentation! Seriously 10 /10 !!! I'm no mechanic but I understood just about everything you were saying... 👏👏👏
Made cold air intake for my puny little diesel myself. Didn't change filter box (btw filter box to turbo is straight pipe around 15 cm or 6 freedom units close), just deleted resonator before filter box and routed intake to filter box with pipe straight from cars front, using unused fog light place as opening in front. Feeling is that there is not much maximal power gained, but overall responsiveness is way better this way. And that mod was cheap as hell, used plastic drainage pipe as inlet pipe (don't remember correctly, but I think it was 60mm diameter), just bought bunch of different angle fittings and made it like Lego in place. Few years in service and no problems. Initial worry was about intake place being so low to the ground and possible water on road, but it has never been a problem so far, to be sure If I see big water ahead and potential risk of sucking it in, just let off of accelerator and drop the RPM's to lower vacuum forces on inlet.
See Andrew's explanation of air flow @around 7:00. Now, think of snorkelling on big V-8 air filters. Engineers added the elephant-like bell to snorkel inputs. Look at jet engine cowlings. Always round. Also, while torque was dominant in 400-500 C.I. beasts, notice the total area of the intakes/snorkels. At less than 5K RPM, no issues. ☺ This is a video worth repeating as yr knowledge base develops. Kudos.
I just watched your "Why Cold Air Intakes DONT or DO Work on your car" video. You put in real thought and analysis, backed by real world data. There's so much conflicting information out there - your video stood out as an unbiased understanding to CAI. So thanks :)
I would have had more to give, but your mom ate a lot at dinner last night. I like how random people are so butt hurt about how I spent MY money years ago. 😂
My 23 TRD Off Road, double cab, long bed has the TRD Performance exhaust system. I noticed a fair amount of increase horsepower and torque after adding a cold air intake onto my Tacoma. Another boost in horsepower and torque came from the Overland Torque Tune. Because of the cold air intake and the OTT, my Tacoma now produces 318 horsepower and 295 lb ft of torque, while giving me better fuel efficiency.
Excellent information! Nice to also learn of some of the tricks to what may actually make one intake work vs. another. You really have to know what you're working with, your vehicle's needs, the limitations of the factory parts, their original design parameters, and have the means to test the changes you've made to determine if it was necessary/beneficial or not.
I just changed my cobb pod filter to a grimspeed dry con panel filter. I recently put in on the dyno and had a 9hp gain before tuning even started. So il be staying with my airbox & panel filter moving forward
That made so much sense! I noticed you didn't wade into the pros and cons of oiled air filters, such as oil on the MAF and/or particle sizes actually filtered out. That would be another good video.
Take a look at the "Volant Closed Box Cold Air Intake with Air Scoop and Powercore Dry Filter". This is a closed box system that is vented through the original cold air access hole (air from outside the engine bay) and also has an air scoop that works when vehicle is moving. The CLOSED system means there is no hot air leakage from the engine bay into the system.
This is why I have always told customers, friends or other enthusiasts that once you change one part of an engine, you'll need to correct the imbalance you've made. The goal is to achieve a respectable balance. One thing I've noticed about this video is, he's missing why or what the difference is between a CAI and short ram. The goal there is getting cooler charged air into the combination chamber. Cooler the air, the better the fuel atomization.
Very good piece. Could you, at some point touch on the particulate sizes of grit permitted by some aftermarket filter, and the after effects to the engine, vs the very good filtration of the stock paper filter?
The Donaldson powercore filter I switched had almost 8 times more filter surface area than the paper filter in my truck the power difference was absolutely noticeable
I thought this video spread a wealth of knowledge but the one thing I kept waiting to hear and forgive me if I missed it... But I thought for sure (at least on naturally aspirated engines) that the inside diameter of the intake pipe would have a significant effect on the air speed or (velocity?) At different engine speeds.
so refreshing to see a sensible approach to explaining intakes... didn't think i would learn anything but i ended up learning a lot... no mention of the sound, which is arguably why most people will install an intake... even if my car made less kw with a pod filter.. i would probably still run one just for the visual gains :P
I have a q50 3.7. From what everyone says the stock intake with aftermarket filters is almost just as good as a full aftermarket intake. They say it’s not really worth the money and gains are very minimal. It will sound nice tho lol
I've stuck a KNN on my daily, I live on a dusty area and yes they go though the filter and into the engine. KNNs flow more due to it having less restriction. Did i feel any power difference to my stock air filter? nope, no difference it made some nice wooshing noises though.
lol... in my 74 Duster... I'd turn over the air cleaner lid cause 4 barrels carbs sound awesome when it's upside down. Side effect is that the air-cleaner is 360 degree's exposed, but no one thought about that back then... just that it sounded cool when the secondary's came alive. Mopar even made an air cleaner designed to make that noise... and they put it inside the Road Runner.
Great video and explanation Andrew! So many people believe intake mods are going to give 20+hp as per manufacturers claim. In my experience, they give marginal gains, but as you explained, its the restriction that hinders it the most.
the ecu and maf sensor are programed for the stock intake. this means that if you change the intake you must reprogram the ecu to compensate for the extra potential flow.. this is the only way to maximize the potential of an aftermarket intake otherwise you will get almost no gain in power as the ecu still draws the same amount of air as a factory intake. so tune for any and every mod you get so you know you're getting v for what you're paying for
Also all well and good for a turbo car, what about doing a OE stock engine and what gains can be made for changing the Air filter to a sport KN type of air filter?
oil vapor screws up the MAS wire and KN type dont filter dust well. The oil catches the dust. Clean and reoil every 5,000 miles, then 300 later clean the MAS wire. JMO I threw my KN away.
A highly informative video. That point about the intercooler air temp drop vs the cold air intake, never considered that fact but I have ducted my intercooler as per your 'best practice aero' video, such a great video. Regarding air movement through ducting, I read an article which stated that if air is to be ducted, by ram effect only, a 90 degree bend equates to around 36 feet of straight ducting due to the direction change. This seems feasible and it would be great to hear opinions on this.
My 2017 Ford Fiesta naturally aspirated 1.6, has no MAF. A really short aluminum manifold on the throttle body with the vacuum line stuck through it, and a big K&N filter on top, inside a shroud that gets it's air from the original opening over the radiator, has definitely given me a good few extra ponies, and has really made my nat-asp sound wonderful, without getting overly loud intake noise. I'm toying with the idea of a small Rotrex supercharger, again with a big K&N before it. 😁
@@dirkfrazier9779 Went with just a cat-back Takeda stainless system. It's pretty nice. 1/2 a pony isn't worth that, tbh, but I think you see bigger gains than a half horse deleting the cat.
This is the first video of yours I’ve ever seen as of today and it single-handedly won you another subscriber. Douse the opinions of vehicle performance upgrades with kerosene and set them a conflagration with ingenuity, knowledge, and science.
Excellent, thanks. I have seen _small_ gains at relatively high-RPM from 'free-flowing' intakes once or twice, on normally aspirated engines. But, I have had far greater success from modifying exhaust systems. The usual problem there is with noise, both inside and outside the car. Although, on the intake side, individual throttle bodies (ITBs) can make a _lot_ of noise, as well.
A tuner company for my car sold MAP sensor hoses made with a small drilled hole in them, so a small amount of air going to the sensor leaked out before reaching the sensor. The ECU though the engine was boosting too little because of the lower MAP sensor measurement and the ECU then adjusted the boost higher then stock boost to compensate.
It really is a car by car basis and people need to do research before deciding if it's worth it. On a 370z, a quality intake and tune will net 30-35 wheel horsepower (over 10% power gain), which has been proven by countless dyno runs. On a GR Supra, intakes are lucky to add 5 horsepower if tuned for it, but most people buy them because they make the turbo noises much louder.
on my 1.8tsi i installed a simota conic air filter with bigger pipes. With stock ecu it made literally 0 difference in horsepower, just much better noise. Once i added full exhaust, downpipe , bigger injectors and a stage 2 tune, i dynoed back to back with and without the CAI and it made almost a 15hp difference.
It's worth noting that a sharp edge immediately before a turbo (i.e. if packaging requires a 90 hard up against the intake, like early Subarus and a few euro things) puts up to half the compressor in a lower pressure zone, affecting overall compressor efficiency (effectively the turbo is operating at a higher pressure ratio). I read a paper on this, the authors designed a roughly banjo-shaped fitting that allowed a bellmouth to be used and fed efficiently from one side (kind of like an old-school carb filter housing that has air piped in from one side but still has even flow around the carb. Like that, but much more compact and actually with a big enough inlet hole). The improvements in compressor efficiency were measurable and useful. Also it sounds like the filter on your GTR was limited by airflow area. Once velocity approaches sonic sucking harder doesn't result in more airflow and just results in more vacuum. The area for airflow through the filter (minus any boundary layer effects in the filter) was less than the pipe. If it was a *shape* problem you'd note increasing gains up to that point rather than the wall that you got. I'd wager a bigger/deeper filter in the same spot would get you your 50hp back. If such a filter exists... Also Also re air temp on turbo cars: ALL SUBARUS NEED INTERCOOLER FANS. I put my 280,000km otherwise completely stock Gen 4 Legacy GT down the strip and ran 4x 14.9 second passes, and I largely attribute that to the intercooler always being cool because I put a fan on it.
I slapped a $30 spectre cone filter on my 11 NA mini cooper, engine was ready for it, raised the dip in the middle of the powerband, but not much on the top end, as expected. You really feel (and hear) it right past 2500rpm, but right as you cross 4krpm, right through peak torque, it's not much different from stock. I may go ahead and grab an exhaust kit just for fun, find a way to get cold air to the intake, probably just be more of the same effect. No good camshaft options I could find, but stock is not garbage, and weight reduction will go a long way
Great video and very informative! My car is a V6 accord, it came with a k&n panel filter and the air box is nicely tucked away from the engine, pipe has good flow, so I’m not gonna do anything to it. IMO all the Honda guys running a CAI from behind the fender are just asking for a hydro lock, and the only benefit is sound.
What results have you had personally with intake kits? What topic should we cover next in Motive Tech?
I have personally seen a .4 drop on the 1/4 mile at Eastern Creek with a K&N panel filter in the standard airbox on an AE112 Corolla Sportivo Turbo. 1st week, 15.8, the very next week after fitting the filter and nothing else, ran a 15.4. 👍
Bingo, nicely done and for some, if you just want to use X brand... you can do that also.
On the dyno I've seen mixed results depending on car and setup.. some gains.. some losses... some exactly the same 🤣 gained half a psi once from a intake too...
I am interested to know with some of these cars that run an aftermarket induction system with a cone shaped air filter and also some of the big power Skylines which run no air filter, What effect does this have on the engine lifespan and turbo lifespan ?
Most engines break or come out to freshen up before the extra wear from unfiltered particles have an effect to be honest.
I paid for it. So I'm going to pretend it works awesome. Don't need to hear my wife saying I told you so.
I hope at least you didn't do the "HOT air intake" modification....
😂😂😂😂
You didn’t include making sure the cold air intake tube being red. That adds 100 HP automatically.
😂 used too in my saxo 1L
Damn that's some funny dad logic we would here when we would slap stickers on our motorcycles as kids. 10 hp right there
That’s true
That only works on body colour
The upgrade to red is purple with a sticker.
Andrew, I love this video, there is a lot of truths there, but also a few inaccuracies. I've been designing Air Induction Systems for many of the big motor OEM's, (US & German), for just over 25 years now and we do a heck of a lot of CFD work on these systems from day one. Granted power is not what we are after so much, its efficiency and economics. But one point I do strongly disagree with from this video is the air flow into the compressor. We have a Gamma ration we need to meet, (the evenness of flow across the compressor face). You use the analogy of a plane engine, but have you ever seen a jet engine mounted facing upward at say 30 degree angle, or even less. NO, they are always pointed directly into the flow as the distribution of the air to the compressor is important. One big tip I can offer you, and something everyone over looks, is for the duct to be as large a Dia as possible right up to the compressor. So that diagram you drew of the Yaris, hold the ~76mm all the way around the bend and neck down to the 50mm at the last minute. This give the compressor a greater volume of air to play with, (from all directions rather than skewed to one side after and 180 bend), and before it is accelerated up and ingested and means the flow speed around the bend is a slow as possible and therefore less restrictive. (Don't forget that any change in direction, cross section, acceleration or deceleration of the air creates RESTICTION).
Also swirl is a major factor that we need to manage for NVH and spool up reasons. So much so we even fit spiral swirl generators into the duct before the turbo, (something I have a couple of patents for so far ). But these have an adverse effect of creating a restriction, but something we often have to put up with to get the swirl in order.
As for AFM's, one anecdote I have regarding their sensitivity and how it can throw and ECU out, when at Ford we were finding discrepancies in the AFM signal between different filters in the same car. It turned out to be the metal clip that joined the cylindrical filter paper was effecting the signal depending on where it is positioned in relation to the AFM. We ended up adding a small keyway to the filter so I could only go in in one orientation and had the filter manufacture ensure the clip was within +/- 2degrees of the CAD design.
Anyway, keep up the great work Andrew and I look forward to your next episode. (I promise I won't piss on that one).
Deep industry knowledge, much appreciated.
@@maiy8786 ideally you want flow as slow as possible, within reason.
As for cooling effect of fast air, I've never heard of that from an induction point of view. But any cooling would be out weighed by heat soak through ducts running through hot areas.
@@Scott_GT-R - Fair call on the feed in to the turbo. As Andrew hints at, I do imagine there's turbos/setups which are more or less sensitive to the specifics of that. (@Maytricks) If you look at Bernoulli's equation you can exchange velocity for pressure/density (which has a direct relationship with temp'). But you don't get a free lunch as the velocity may notably impact pressure drop and it's impact isn't likely sufficient. This is why you generally want to keep velocities low and flow laminar as Scott mentions.
As Scott correctly note, the general conclusions from anecdotal evidence is 'ok'. In addition to your comments, static pressure drop isn't a linear relationship so the linearity is an assumption, density has to be factored in to the IAT considerations against boost response, and open loop tuning means there's generally only a margin of control in the ECU to be able to compensate for cooler air (by jacking fuelling/timing).
In any case, really hard to condense a fairly complex topic into an easily digestible format, so full credit to Andrew for the video.
Well Scott that was pretty comprehensive, cheers for bothering to share your knowledge.
Heck, very informative. Cheers much appreciated.
This is the best video about intakes I've ever seen. Thank you for putting the work in.
I can say that a lot of what you said is spot on. I installed an Injen CAI on my first Audi C7 A6 3.0, and didn't see much difference in hp at all (if any). When I purchased my second C7 A6, I bought a K&N replacement for the stock filter, added a chrome intake pipe, and left the box alone. I used the same exact chip as I had on the first Audi, and everything else was the same. Never dyno'd the car, but the hp increase was definitely noticeable, the launch was way more aggressive, and the torque was up there. I don't exactly know why I purchased a CAI originally, and the cause could be from several different factors (manufacturers influence, because they looked cool, or too much Jack Daniels), who knows. The 2nd time around, I thought about it for a minute and figured those engineers at Audi know what they're doing, and I looked at the design, and it all made sense. Air is forced into the air box from the very front of the car so why did I ever take out the box and have the air come from directly inside the hot-ass engine compartment. I could kick my own ass for not seeing it earlier, but that's how we learn, I suppose.
Thanks John…you just convinced me NOT to purchase an aftermarket intake for my 2022 Genesis G70 sport prestige. I think I’m going with a Nishimoto intercooler.
There are people who can explain technical info and people who can’t !?!
Andrew is a Natural Teacher, you can’t underestimate how important this is. Not sure what topic next, but I know you’ll bring it to us the best way possible !
Thank you very much.
Can we be honest and say most people just add intakes for the sound
Why I did it 😂
Look, I improved my ride!
@@samb6066 here I am, a year later and I did the same lmao
Thats how I feel about exhaust, I didn't install it for performance. I installed it for sound
@@A_Guy123 my boy
From what I've found. Stock systems are designed to give mostly mid range torque for drivability and not much top end. A cold air kit tends to give you more top end at the cost of mid range power. Although this isn't the same for all cars.
Everything from the manufacturer is designed for the average driver, in the average city, place, speed limits & never straying from the designated MPH for the average person. To gear heads, we just want to make things go faster and more efficiently than they do from the factory - we don't want Grandma's ride - we want our ride!
Exactly, as per my comment above. The AEM cold air intake on the Toyota Matrix with the 2ZZ-ge upped the top speed 4 mph . If it did nothing but make noise like most people claim , it wouldn’t have gotten any mph difference.
The sound you get from a aluminum CAI on a 90's Honda is worth the price of admission alone...sooo good. 4hp+ is just a bonus.
I could care less about gains, I just love the sound lol
The world of music by something Andrews(?)!, from a long time ago?
Right @@newemoboy1
On 70-80s era cars I think high flow k&n filters made a noticeable difference. Modern cars are much better designed so gains are negligible without more mods
100% agree, I had a tuner tell me to install a new suzuki air filter on my race gsxr1000 because it actually has a better power band vs a k&n which is mostly peak power designed!
That's because of the computer programming! Old cars had no computers
K&N products are garbage in every way. Still blown away how they still have a standing in the automovie community. Nothing to do with the topic at hand. Just thought I'd put that info out
@@thomasmatarazzo198 So you prefer throwing paper filters away?
@@harveybrooks2597 No other companies make better filters
Cold air intakes work great as long as they are not sucking hot air from the engine compartment. I use a Weapon-R system on my Dart and have it connected to the factory air box so it draws cool air from inside the fender. Works like a charm according to the IAT sensor and the Dyno after tuning it.
Probably the most thorough explanation and reasoning for me not to get an aftermarket air intake piping, but get an upgrade IC on a stock car in a desert climate.
My JZX100 lost nearly 5kw at the hubs taking off the stock airbox and throwing a k&n pod filter off the MAF. Back to back dyno runs minutes apart. Of course the pod filter sounded 100x better which is all that really matters.
lol
that's what i tell most people, change to an aftermarket intake for noise not power
@@S2yay Also stock filters air way better.
Agree, went back to stock too.
But I miss the intake sound...a lot...
So you are willing to loose 5kw for sound?
Thank you for that information, you helped me solve an issue on my truck that I wasn't seeking the answer here for. The AFM signal was changing the timing of my truck which was causing a check engine light because of timing... it made perfect sense when I realized the K&N air filter kit came with an air filter to put over the MAFS.
This video was amazingly informative. I, the man with no patience, sat through the entire video and am leaving better informed. Thank you.
My Monster Sport carbon air intake on my Suzuki Swift Sport 1.6 (NA) brought it from 130hp before tuning (after mounting, so a little loss without tune from the 136 stock), to 154 after tuning. Quite amazed by those numbers from just an air intake! No other engine/exhaust mods done!
I think I've learnt more from Motive videos than every other channel. I still can't understand how they don't have that many subs
That's why you must install the included stickers with your intake. The stickers increase the horsepower of your motor even more making the intake more effective.
The ultimate gain is when you apply them directly to your forehead!
😂@@dirkfrazier9779
So, from what I know and from this video, best way to increase power of my NA RX-8 is to lower temperature of air. So ram air duct it is...
Hook up your AC to the air box and you will have 40 degree colder air, isn't that what it is all about, I don't know if the AC can give enough air to the motor though until I do it!
I love being a chemical engineer who’s taken transport phenomena and understand the equations necessary to back up all the visual assumptions! Also “turbulent” is definitely the way you described, but the smooth flow is what we’d call “laminar” flow. Helps out with solving for equations and such like Reynolds number and such🤓
My personal experience is with a 2011 F-150 with the gen1 5.0L Coyote. I added the K&N cold air system to it, and although I have no clue how much HP was gained it was definitely felt. As well as MPG increased by 1.5, pending reasonable driving. At one point I decided to go back to the stock intake with a K&N panel filter for a more sustained MPG. The MPG and HP were barely over stock levels. Needless to say I went back to the cold air system. Now 8 years later and with 225K on the truck I'm still happy with the system. The only bad point is that the oil used in the filter does go all the way through the induction system. That means it will build up and cause flow issues in time. Which in turn means complete cleaning of the induction system every so often. Would still recommend it for this ap though as it does work.
Thanks for the real world information Jeremy!
I was told by one of the aftermarket companies(which didn’t even offer a cold air intake) and a couple of very reputable Type R tuners…that the factory Honda Type R cold air intake setup just worked the best so bolting on anything aftermarket was for more noise/cosmetics. When you think about the amount of money Honda spends on research and development especially on a car such as the Type R…it makes sense.
This has been the best explanation that shows what is crucial in any intake system and not just the flow of air. Thank you well explained and it is very logical.
Very well done explanation video. This video helped me understand some of the success that I have had building a cold air intake in my street/drag truck. One of the successful things that I had not understood was the placement of the mass air sensor. I had cut a factory mount from an intake and put it where it belongs in front of the throttle body. I have learned that even the direction or orientation of a sensor can contribute to success. The mechanic that did the motor swap had mounted it in the end of a conical air filter. Another part of my success was deleting the a/c system. With the decrease in drag from the compressor and the removal of the condenser gives a clear path for air through the front grill. These changes showed up at the track keeping in mind that the density altitude was better at testing the truck went from 9s to 8.7 in an 1/8 th . More than 3 - 10th of a second increase ! Thanks again for this video. As I mentioned above it helped me understand the improvements that I had made. I already knew that it had made a huge difference but, now I understand why it worked so well.
So what's better a stock 2011 mustang 5.0 intake or airaid cold air intake
@@alexcarrillo5187 Try it and tell us all about it?
Anytime I have used AEM cold Air intakes with Ceramic coating do create about 5 Horsepower increase thru out the range. Now when you tune it though and make huge changes to the fuel and Spark delivery then it really starts to produce over 10 to 15 HP Seen it done it dude on a Dyno.
This is very interesting, especially with regards to the air flow meter. My car, MK7 Fiesta ST had a Cobb intake installed by the previous owner that constantly threw a code, lean on idle that went away when switched back to the factory intake. This was because the cobb intake moved the location of the air flow meter from very close to the filter in the top piece of the airbox to higher up in the intake pipe. So the long term fuel trim was way over 50% all the time causing the engine light to come on. It was also located after intakes from the carbon canister which may have had an effect. What we have found out is that apparently for the US spec Fiestas, their map does not use data from the AFM, just map sensor whereas the Euro spec which we get in Australia does use the flow rates for the tune. And on our Fiesta group there is sticky notice for that warns people to not buy any intakes from US manufacturers like Cobb, K&N and Mishimoto as they just throw codes. It doesn't help that most of these companies never tested their intakes on non US cars so Aussie retailers who don't really do much research still sell them to unsuspecting customers.
intake manifold vs what kids call an "intake"
That normal with 99.9 % aftermarket parts manufacturer they don’t even test for a month driving the car on road and then make fake claims
Thanks for clarifying!
This is exactly why I've been standoffish about buying 'cold' air intake systems that just feels like snake oil to me. A lot like the intake tornado rubbish from years ago
The other thing you have to consider is how quickly the filter will clog up with a true CAI. I had a scoop style CAI on my s2000 and it was great with a clean filter but the filter would clog up very quickly during daily driving and make the car sluggish
Was thinking of adding a CAI on my 93 4runner with the 3.4 swap but I'm on a dirt road where I live and I do mostly off road driving with that rig. I'm just guessing but I stayed away for the dust factor.
@@fightthelies4349 I have a 22re and found a 3rz swap is an extra 50 HP, inline four, Toy motor and I'm thinking free flow header/exhaust, slightly more aggressive cam and cold air intake would make an extra 60 HP over the 24re- the 3rz is like 2.7 litre over 2.4 litre, but minimal modifications compared to building a 22RE motor from scratch; there is a number of videos on YT to give you a heads up; 50-60 extra ponies and same 4 banger reliability and gas milage to boot!
This is the honest truth about intake , personally I prefer factory intake box with 3 layer foam racing filter. Looks same as factory but less restricted and most car intake box is positioned to get outside air better than aftermarket intake. Nice video keep it up
And usually there is aftermarket options to get better flow to the airbox I've seen snorkels that go over your factory intake and some that route through somewhere like your grill using aluminum sheets to guide air towards your box instead of covering it.
Not sure which one is better I don't really like the idea of routing a huge snorkel right in the front of a car instead of just guiding more air
@Kuni - Kimina another theory that make me don't even believe in massive air box is that bigger intake manifold and high flow filter is more important than the diameter of the intake pipe .
The most logical explanation I have seen for CAI. Fully agree with measuring with a vacuum gauge to detect restriction. If CAI's worked across the board, the companies that sell them would demonstrate this.
Most late model cars come STOCK with a cold air intake. They draw cold air from behind the grill or inside a wheel well. The after market “Cold air intake” sits under the hood and collects HOT air. It may be less restrictive, but, it is anything but cold air. I run a stock air box with either a AEM dry drop in filter or a K&N oiled filter to open things up a bit.
I have a 2010 toyota tacoma, the first mod I did was one of those "cold air" intakes. Yes it's less restrictive and you can hear an audible throttle sound. The down side is there wasn't any noticeable mpg difference no power difference. I'm now planning to swap that intake out for more of an actual cold air intake, hopefully we'll see an actual difference.
@@joshburts1044 Why not port your AC into the air box with -40 degree air from the ambient air? cold air is what we are looking for; I don't know if the AC can supply enough air, but until I do I'll never know!
I've used several different brands, some made by same parent company, and have only seen decreased mpg, sometimes a better feel. Overall not worth the bucks for a straight stock vehicle. The only advantage has been the ability to clean and replace. Info is king, thanks for the video.
The man behind some of the wildest GT-Rs in the world teaching us things? I'm paying attention professor, please carry on!
It doesn’t work when you don’t tune with it yes, but for the Audi S3, Golf R, Leon Cupra there are kits out there from REVO and APR which when tuned it does make a dramatic difference and this is because they’re closed boxes just like the OEM part but with less restriction and better temperature qualties, but just throwing one on yes I agree they do naff all ☺️✌🏻
Amazingly informative, best video about intakes I've ever seen. Learnt so much. Thanks for posting this!
It sounds like i will make most of my gains on a stock engine by simply adding a K and N drop in filter to the stock airbox instead of doing after market
I've increased the size and flow of every part of my intake tract. The last bottleneck left in the system is the intake runner in the cylinder head and the intake valves lol. But a set of AFR heads aren't in the budget just yet :-(
Air meters , we found we could "tune " a car sometimes by rotating the Air Flow meter in the intake system. Especially there was a bend in the tube w/in 6" , ether in front of it or behind. The meters themselves were in a 6" straight pipe . Air hugs and compresses a little at the top or outside of a bend , inside of the bend it slows down and looses pressure becouse of the air compression on top. It takes a few inches of straight pipe to even out .
Very good info. Here in the US most every "cold air" intake that I've seen isn't sealed up at all. Just pulls hot air from whatever corner of the engine bay it's mounted. All show n no go.
That would be a short ram. A cold air intake pulls air from outside the engine bay
This is the best discussion and explanation of this topic that I’ve watched. It’s so obvious when you think about it that a dyno with a big fan blowing at a constant speed into the front of the car cannot mimic the actual on road situation where the vehicle is increasing velocity through the air as it accelerates. Great work.
I can honestly say without any doubt
My w30 Mr2 with stainless and a cold air intake filter was lumpy at low RPM especially in slow traffic, however it really smoothed out as you got moving with spirited shifting and open road's
Honest answer I don't think it was faster than stock, probably detrimental as it was lumpy 1st to 2nd low down.....But!!!
It was a beautiful experience for my Ears, such a small 1.8 138bhp engine at revs sounded wicked, bear in mind that engine is about 4ft away from your ears, beautiful little Japanese tone absolutely loved it and it made spirited feel faster, top down by far the best smiles per gallon car I've ever owned, if it sound's fast it is fast 😀
Just enjoy life and mess with your car, taste sound and visuals do more than data on paper ever will.
Lots of good information.
Businesses are in the business on UP SELLING their product to make money. It does not always equate to their claims made.
I observed so many in car clubs on Facebook or other messing about pouring money in to their cars wasting it and then after also finding them experiencing problems. Hillarious!
Want more power? Stick to what is proven to work. Ecu tune or a more popular option of a Pickyback unit.
Best solution is airconditioning cooled intercoolers, and very short turbo charger piping,this method is the most effective in any situation and almost every car today has air conditioning.
Most "cold air intakes" are actually hot air intakes like with the 997.The only thing that misleads most people is the gain in intake noise.The louder it is the faster it appears to be.Great detailed video.👍
Precision Racing showed us this with their twin turbo Lambo. Keen to explore it further. That’s a “post turbo” tech video
Air-conditioning cooled intercoolers?... I'm in
Its pretty amazing tech actually
Surely that would be a packaging nightmare for most cars? And how much power are you using to run the a/c vs power gained through cooler charge temps?
@@vlt873 Did someone say KFC!
In my natural aspirated Mustang GT - I noticed the biggest effect of an closed Air Intake (INJEN) on any car ever! At the first 25 meters it felt in Normal Mode
like it was in Track mode, so huge was the difference in throttle response. The Mustang has a directly positioned air suction from the outside! That´s the
intake temperature is only 3-4 degrees Celcius more than the outside!
Did intake system testing with 5 temp sensors along intake of turbo intercooled rx-7 years back. Discovered same thing as in video. Soon as you stop, engine bay pod filter temps go up lots. But by end of third gear full noise run, made no difference after intercooler. I still went and installed 4" hose to relocate filter before intercooler out front!
You didn't mention superchargers, but they are very sensitive to pre-charger intake restrictions and temperature. More so than a closed loop wastegate controlled turbo. I have cheated and spray water/meth through my roots blower. Best mod you can do for a supercharger!
water/ meth is shit
Thank you for such an informative video. Seems that an upgrade in the intercooler is more important than a CIA.
very interesting vid I have a induction kit and my friend doesn't we both have the same cars and are both stage 1 mapped but mine pulls away from his as we increase our speed a i think mine can breath better at the top end of the revs
i almost didnt watch because 30 mins long but so glad i did. very informative, never boring, and extremely useful information! subbed !
Would be good to try a drop in performance filter on that 996 to see how it compares to the cone and stock paper filter. Personally think if it’s a well designed intake system a drop in filter is usually the way to go especially with NA cars as the penalty for sucking in hot air through a cone will loose power
There was one a few years ago with aftermarket intakes for VW and Audi. Can't remember who the manufacturer was but they changed the thickness of the piping. OD was the same but ID increased. People who had the original version raved about how good the intake was but those that got the revised model absolutely hated them. Fuel trims were out, they ran roughly, had hesitation on acceleration. All because they ID had changed by 1 - 2mm which meant that the MAF signal was messed up.
What a great informative well put together video presentation! Seriously 10 /10 !!! I'm no mechanic but I understood just about everything you were saying... 👏👏👏
Made cold air intake for my puny little diesel myself. Didn't change filter box (btw filter box to turbo is straight pipe around 15 cm or 6 freedom units close), just deleted resonator before filter box and routed intake to filter box with pipe straight from cars front, using unused fog light place as opening in front. Feeling is that there is not much maximal power gained, but overall responsiveness is way better this way. And that mod was cheap as hell, used plastic drainage pipe as inlet pipe (don't remember correctly, but I think it was 60mm diameter), just bought bunch of different angle fittings and made it like Lego in place. Few years in service and no problems. Initial worry was about intake place being so low to the ground and possible water on road, but it has never been a problem so far, to be sure If I see big water ahead and potential risk of sucking it in, just let off of accelerator and drop the RPM's to lower vacuum forces on inlet.
I put a HSP intake and let me tell you my friend it made a big difference!
1. Better throttle respond
2. More miles per gallon
See Andrew's explanation of air flow @around 7:00. Now, think of snorkelling on big V-8 air filters. Engineers added the elephant-like bell to snorkel inputs. Look at jet engine cowlings. Always round. Also, while torque was dominant in 400-500 C.I. beasts, notice the total area of the intakes/snorkels. At less than 5K RPM, no issues. ☺ This is a video worth repeating as yr knowledge base develops. Kudos.
I just watched your "Why Cold Air Intakes DONT or DO Work on your car" video. You put in real thought and analysis, backed by real world data. There's so much conflicting information out there - your video stood out as an unbiased understanding to CAI. So thanks :)
okay robot
Wow $2 you're a real hero
I would have had more to give, but your mom ate a lot at dinner last night.
I like how random people are so butt hurt about how I spent MY money years ago. 😂
My 23 TRD Off Road, double cab, long bed has the TRD Performance exhaust system. I noticed a fair amount of increase horsepower and torque after adding a cold air intake onto my Tacoma. Another boost in horsepower and torque came from the Overland Torque Tune.
Because of the cold air intake and the OTT, my Tacoma now produces 318 horsepower and 295 lb ft of torque, while giving me better fuel efficiency.
Excellent information! Nice to also learn of some of the tricks to what may actually make one intake work vs. another. You really have to know what you're working with, your vehicle's needs, the limitations of the factory parts, their original design parameters, and have the means to test the changes you've made to determine if it was necessary/beneficial or not.
I just changed my cobb pod filter to a grimspeed dry con panel filter. I recently put in on the dyno and had a 9hp gain before tuning even started. So il be staying with my airbox & panel filter moving forward
That made so much sense!
I noticed you didn't wade into the pros and cons of oiled air filters, such as oil on the MAF and/or particle sizes actually filtered out. That would be another good video.
Take a look at the "Volant Closed Box Cold Air Intake with Air Scoop and Powercore Dry Filter". This is a closed box system that is vented through the original cold air access hole (air from outside the engine bay) and also has an air scoop that works when vehicle is moving. The CLOSED system means there is no hot air leakage from the engine bay into the system.
7:54 sorry Andrew but that turbo looks very phallic lol
Haha! I thought the same thing... buuuuuuunnnnggggiiing!
This is why I have always told customers, friends or other enthusiasts that once you change one part of an engine, you'll need to correct the imbalance you've made. The goal is to achieve a respectable balance.
One thing I've noticed about this video is, he's missing why or what the difference is between a CAI and short ram. The goal there is getting cooler charged air into the combination chamber. Cooler the air, the better the fuel atomization.
Very good piece. Could you, at some point touch on the particulate sizes of grit permitted by some aftermarket filter, and the after effects to the engine, vs the very good filtration of the stock paper filter?
HP is far more important than longevity!
The Donaldson powercore filter I switched had almost 8 times more filter surface area than the paper filter in my truck the power difference was absolutely noticeable
I remember a video of someone putting a bell mouth on a turbocharger and it actually gained power.
It will, your getting more air into it.
I thought this video spread a wealth of knowledge but the one thing I kept waiting to hear and forgive me if I missed it... But I thought for sure (at least on naturally aspirated engines) that the inside diameter of the intake pipe would have a significant effect on the air speed or (velocity?) At different engine speeds.
so refreshing to see a sensible approach to explaining intakes... didn't think i would learn anything but i ended up learning a lot... no mention of the sound, which is arguably why most people will install an intake... even if my car made less kw with a pod filter.. i would probably still run one just for the visual gains :P
Audible gains 😂
I have a q50 3.7. From what everyone says the stock intake with aftermarket filters is almost just as good as a full aftermarket intake. They say it’s not really worth the money and gains are very minimal. It will sound nice tho lol
Racing cars don’t use road car airboxes unless they have to for homologation.
Racing cars don’t have to be quiet, or cheap. ✌️
Finally!
Not that the endless discussions stop, but that another thing.
I've stuck a KNN on my daily, I live on a dusty area and yes they go though the filter and into the engine. KNNs flow more due to it having less restriction. Did i feel any power difference to my stock air filter? nope, no difference it made some nice wooshing noises though.
@TheFastAndThe Dead 🤦🏻♂️
if your dealing with dirt do not run a oiled filter it will clog, run a dry filter
@TheFastAndThe Dead not true, any car after 96 will self learn
lol... in my 74 Duster... I'd turn over the air cleaner lid cause 4 barrels carbs sound awesome when it's upside down. Side effect is that the air-cleaner is 360 degree's exposed, but no one thought about that back then... just that it sounded cool when the secondary's came alive. Mopar even made an air cleaner designed to make that noise... and they put it inside the Road Runner.
Great video and explanation Andrew! So many people believe intake mods are going to give 20+hp as per manufacturers claim. In my experience, they give marginal gains, but as you explained, its the restriction that hinders it the most.
mustang guys.. flowmaster says 20hp! i have 2 mufflers.. so my fox body makes 265hp
@@modfoxv10 that was lots of people back in the day not just mustang guys. People just aren't educated on this stuff.
the ecu and maf sensor are programed for the stock intake. this means that if you change the intake you must reprogram the ecu to compensate for the extra potential flow.. this is the only way to maximize the potential of an aftermarket intake otherwise you will get almost no gain in power as the ecu still draws the same amount of air as a factory intake. so tune for any and every mod you get so you know you're getting v for what you're paying for
Also all well and good for a turbo car, what about doing a OE stock engine and what gains can be made for changing the Air filter to a sport KN type of air filter?
oil vapor screws up the MAS wire
and
KN type dont filter dust well. The oil catches the dust.
Clean and reoil every 5,000 miles, then 300 later clean the MAS wire.
JMO I threw my KN away.
Brilliant. A lot of plug in boxes just change the air flow and air temp signals to fool the car to dump more fuel into the cylinders.
A highly informative video.
That point about the intercooler air temp drop vs the cold air intake, never considered that fact but I have ducted my intercooler as per your 'best practice aero' video, such a great video.
Regarding air movement through ducting, I read an article which stated that if air is to be ducted, by ram effect only, a 90 degree bend equates to around 36 feet of straight ducting due to the direction change. This seems feasible and it would be great to hear opinions on this.
If you're interested, there's a popular book by Corky Bell called Maximum Boost. Page 58 has great info on airflow through heat exchangers.
My 2017 Ford Fiesta naturally aspirated 1.6, has no MAF. A really short aluminum manifold on the throttle body with the vacuum line stuck through it, and a big K&N filter on top, inside a shroud that gets it's air from the original opening over the radiator, has definitely given me a good few extra ponies, and has really made my nat-asp sound wonderful, without getting overly loud intake noise. I'm toying with the idea of a small Rotrex supercharger, again with a big K&N before it. 😁
Straight pipes will give you the sound you want!
I mean, from the exhaust manifold to the tail pipe, no catalytic/muffler in between, and you'll gain 1/2 horse power too! Seriously!
@@dirkfrazier9779 Went with just a cat-back Takeda stainless system. It's pretty nice. 1/2 a pony isn't worth that, tbh, but I think you see bigger gains than a half horse deleting the cat.
Great video. The well explained details really helped to understand what really happens in the intake system. Thank you
This is the first video of yours I’ve ever seen as of today and it single-handedly won you another subscriber. Douse the opinions of vehicle performance upgrades with kerosene and set them a conflagration with ingenuity, knowledge, and science.
Why is this man making us less dumb? Sup with that?!
un video così chiaro e pieno di argomenti veri non l'avevo mai visto. complimenti anche se in ritardo :)
That was an awesome video. Learnt so much. Thanks for posting this!
Excellent, thanks. I have seen _small_ gains at relatively high-RPM from 'free-flowing' intakes once or twice, on normally aspirated engines. But, I have had far greater success from modifying exhaust systems. The usual problem there is with noise, both inside and outside the car. Although, on the intake side, individual throttle bodies (ITBs) can make a _lot_ of noise, as well.
Hey Andrew, would you mind doing types of oil and why also spark plug, gaps, and coil pack please???
Its on the cards
Awesome ,thank you.
Keep up the good work .
Cheers 🍻
A tuner company for my car sold MAP sensor hoses made with a small drilled hole in them, so a small amount of air going to the sensor leaked out before reaching the sensor.
The ECU though the engine was boosting too little because of the lower MAP sensor measurement and the ECU then adjusted the boost higher then stock boost to compensate.
How dare you make sense of every thing!
It really is a car by car basis and people need to do research before deciding if it's worth it.
On a 370z, a quality intake and tune will net 30-35 wheel horsepower (over 10% power gain), which has been proven by countless dyno runs. On a GR Supra, intakes are lucky to add 5 horsepower if tuned for it, but most people buy them because they make the turbo noises much louder.
Yes, finally something with my level of intelligence.. Love this!!
Great video. one thing that needs addressing is that non folded paper filters don't capture fine dust.
Wish there was a larger focus on NA cars, almost all the scenarios are boosted applications. Still learned alot, thanks
intro musics gotta go
on my 1.8tsi i installed a simota conic air filter with bigger pipes. With stock ecu it made literally 0 difference in horsepower, just much better noise. Once i added full exhaust, downpipe , bigger injectors and a stage 2 tune, i dynoed back to back with and without the CAI and it made almost a 15hp difference.
It's worth noting that a sharp edge immediately before a turbo (i.e. if packaging requires a 90 hard up against the intake, like early Subarus and a few euro things) puts up to half the compressor in a lower pressure zone, affecting overall compressor efficiency (effectively the turbo is operating at a higher pressure ratio).
I read a paper on this, the authors designed a roughly banjo-shaped fitting that allowed a bellmouth to be used and fed efficiently from one side (kind of like an old-school carb filter housing that has air piped in from one side but still has even flow around the carb. Like that, but much more compact and actually with a big enough inlet hole). The improvements in compressor efficiency were measurable and useful.
Also it sounds like the filter on your GTR was limited by airflow area. Once velocity approaches sonic sucking harder doesn't result in more airflow and just results in more vacuum. The area for airflow through the filter (minus any boundary layer effects in the filter) was less than the pipe. If it was a *shape* problem you'd note increasing gains up to that point rather than the wall that you got. I'd wager a bigger/deeper filter in the same spot would get you your 50hp back. If such a filter exists...
Also Also re air temp on turbo cars: ALL SUBARUS NEED INTERCOOLER FANS. I put my 280,000km otherwise completely stock Gen 4 Legacy GT down the strip and ran 4x 14.9 second passes, and I largely attribute that to the intercooler always being cool because I put a fan on it.
I slapped a $30 spectre cone filter on my 11 NA mini cooper, engine was ready for it, raised the dip in the middle of the powerband, but not much on the top end, as expected. You really feel (and hear) it right past 2500rpm, but right as you cross 4krpm, right through peak torque, it's not much different from stock. I may go ahead and grab an exhaust kit just for fun, find a way to get cold air to the intake, probably just be more of the same effect. No good camshaft options I could find, but stock is not garbage, and weight reduction will go a long way
If you have AC- re route it to the air box; minus 40 degree air to your motor, just a thought and your welcome!
Oh! Wow ..didn't know changing the air intake and the intake piping on the A90 supra yielded no results. Thank you so much for the informative video.
I use a foam filter in my stock air filter housing and I noticed a difference over the paper air filterThe key here is always have good air flow.
I put a CAI on my Z and definitely felt a performance increase in pickup from standstill. I never dyno'd it though.
Great video and very informative! My car is a V6 accord, it came with a k&n panel filter and the air box is nicely tucked away from the engine, pipe has good flow, so I’m not gonna do anything to it. IMO all the Honda guys running a CAI from behind the fender are just asking for a hydro lock, and the only benefit is sound.
i have ran cold air on a lot of cars hydro lock has never been a issue and k&n are crap, they will destroy most modern MAFs