I have learned when I use my iPhone to make videos, TH-cam processing makes it jump around like this. I guess I need to invest in a GoPro with a screen on it so I can see what I am video'ing. :/
If you get to the point where you are to put diesel in the case... How much do you put in there? Once done do you do anything to get rid of the diesel or just reassemble the motor and fill it up with oil?
Cheap bearings, cheap crank, cheap tensioners, cheap chassis stabilization... Premium brand my ass. I'll keep the one I got because I've already rebuilt everything, but I'll never buy a new one. Harley proves you don't get what you pay for.
Since the beginning of the INA bearing I have been changing them out with the Torrington! I recently had a B motor that wore thru the cage & damaged the bearing hole . Had to weld the hole up & remachine it to fit a new Torrington bearing !
Use the right bearing remover because standard internal jaw pullers only work some of the time. I found out the hard way and had to find EVERY crumb of bearing race and every roller to make sure the engine was clean of debris. HD did the INA nonsense twice, first with Evo big twins then with the Twinkies. It was a knowing choice to use marginal parts.
Why does HD continue to install these INA bearings knowing they're not robust? Why is the question when all they have to do is use what everyone else uses when they upgrade their cam chest with an S&S or Fueling cam chest kit, we all know bearing replacement is MANDATORY because of this but it makes no sense. I have a 2017 Street Glide Special 107, I just installed a 475 cam chest kit in it from S&S motors, and the new bearing was in the kit, I figured I would upgrade since I now have 22k on the motor here in 2023
😮Hey man, I'm a first timer working on a twin cam. My front inner cam bearing exploded while riding. I'm missing almost every part of the bearing. Only a bit of outer cage. No peices in oil filter. I gotta tear it down huh?
Sorry to hear that! You definitely have to tear it down but in your case since you wasn't just trying to remove it and the bearing broke, you may need to pull the oil tank and flush it as well. You have to find all the pieces. 😩
They aren't cheaper or bad. Why would you remove that bearing to just install pushrods? Most needle bearings will get damaged when removed as they are not made to be reused
It's a good question and from my training, there are two main answers. 1. The Torrington bearings have a lot more needles to support the cams which helps reliability. 2. (And the main reason) the little metal spacers between the needles in the factory bearings are very thin and prone to break from temperature fluctuations throughout the years. If just 1 of those break off, it has the potential to destroy your motor. If you are already in the cam chest, why not take the time to change them for peace of mind? In the end it's your bike and up to you though. 🤘🤓
@@harleydave2316 its a matter of loading and caged needles properly speced have much lower drag than full needles without cage. If you are running other than stock can profiles is when problems can arise in the caged bearing from the higher loads involved The issue with just replacing the bearing in a stock bike is that it us easy to get the full needles skewed which damages the crank end and then can allow needles to fall into the crankcase on removal
i read where the cage bearing is for fast and light where the constant bearing is for slow and heavy. in my mind the cage should be the better bearing but it's not. another mystery. plumbing wrap on rods good idea.
Greasing the collet? Plus what about changing the orientation of your motor? Change the direction of the bearing parts coming apart? Assuming you were using a lift with clearance to work on in an angle?
I'm not understanding your questions. You use a tool that bolts into the case so there isn't a way to change angles. The Ina bearings are just very brittle and you have to be very careful with them, from my experience. Thanks for watching!
@@harleydave2316 What Mr.Clark is asking is, if you take Axle Grease and apply it to the Collet (the part that goes inside the Bearing for removal), the grease should help aid in catching the needle bearings and other casing parts when removing the INA cheap bearings. And; Yes there is no-way to change the angle of the tool for removing the bearing.. Great Video man, your Phone Camera got the job done. Thanks for the good information.
@@darknitethunder How about wiping the inside of the bearing and edges with a rag then putting a strip of duct tape around the inside to try prevent anything from falling out maybe?
Drawn Cup needle bearings - both INA and Torrington are brand names. Originally, INA was German, while Torrington was originally “Domestic.” The INA bearing has a *cage,* while the Torrington is *full complement.* Full complement bearings can handle greater loads, but tend to complain if they’re turned too fast.
Thanks for the video. I need to get my bearing replaced but while my mechanic is in there I was going to have the cam replaced along with lifters, breather and adjustable push rods What's an approximate cost to get this done? Thanks
It definitely makes sense to get all that done at the same time. Cost depends on shop and where you live. Around my area it would be roughly $800 to install.
@@harleydave2316 Thanks for the reply. I live in New Hampshire. I got a quote yesterday for $ 1500 for an Andrews E 27 S&S breather, S&S lifters and S&S push rods. Sounds expensive compared to your estimate.
@@pmaint1 I was not aware that Andrew's made a e27 for twincam. I know they make ev27 for evo. But first I'm hearing bout this e27? Got my curiosity. I put the ev27 in last evo I had. And ran phenomenal!
So why do bottom end bearings, that are a caged, last so long, but this one little cam bearing (the other end is a bushing) going at half crank speed blow????
As in, “the loads imposed by the camshafts are sufficient to want the increased capacity of a *full complement/crowded roller* bearing - one where there is no cage separating the rollers/needles.” Been playing with these bearings since the late eighties.
Harley Davidson totally suck..they were well aware of this inferior bearing being crappie yet the bean counters STILL utilized them. I wouldn't want anything new even if it was half price
Where at in the crankcase could mine possibly be hiding? The first bearing didn't come out in tact, the second did. I've taken top end apart to gain access and have thoroughly searched with a fiber optic bore camera. I drained oil and searched, sloshed diesel around and drained but have only found one spacer so far. What could I be missing here?
Sorry to hear this...I have been in your position and it sucks emotionally!! Get a extendable magnet that also pivots at the end and get in all the corners of the crankcase. You can find them cheap at just about any auto parts place. How many pieces are you missing??
@@harleydave2316 It appears I'm missing 9 needles and I'd have to recount the spacers, but that's what had me puzzled is I've found one spacer and one needle. Seems like it should be pretty obvious starting out and I would be struggling to find some of the last ones. I'm gonna stop and pickup a flexible magnet today, mine is just telescoping and rigid. Thanks for the reply and I'll update later today or tomorrow.
@@langstonjones69 That does seem odd but they HAVE to be somewhere. Also get a magnet and look around the floor because some of them might have stuck to the tool and dropped when pulling the broken bearing out of the case. I know it sucks but keep calm and find all the parts. Believe me, once you can get a full count of all pieces , the relief of stress is incredible.
@@harleydave2316 I ended up having to split the case to regain my sanity. The deal breaker was when a magnet off of my bore cam came off in there. The location of where I found stuff I just really don't think I would have ever gotten to them. I've got pics I wanted to send, but you didn't have an email on your about me page. Thanks again for your help.
@@langstonjones69 It sounds like you did the right thing, even though it sucks. I'd like to see where you found the pieces so please email bagels2001@yahoo.com . This is an old email that I don't monitor very often but I'll keep an eye out for yours. Did you end up finding all the pieces?
They were poorly designed. I've had Panheads, one 60's Sportster and 3 Evos (Evo - great bike!). The twin cam is a polished turd. People upgrade them mainly to boast to others about a fictional horsepower number they heard from someone else and not a dyno. They certainly are not nimble, quick, good handling, good stopping bikes. My Buell was, but it set fire to three good pairs of Levis. Harleys are just poorly designed cash cows. I have a twin cam and it's a running sore. It looks good though! You never have to fix just one thing. Open that cam chest and bend over, as your credit card will weep.
@@Dodger2879 Yeah.... im an Evo man for life! Preferably 84'-91' models. In my opinion those are the best engines and overall best bikes, harley has ever produced. My guess is that they had to prove something then and the evo bikes saved that company. After that Harley had such a legendary status that cheap parts were just overlooked and nobody cared about it anymore. The prices are absolutely ridiculous too like you said. For some reason i just cant steer away from that brand though.... ive had kawasakis and hondas (loved them too) but nothing sounds and feels like a harley.
@@KD-nb3mp So true, on all points! I had an '84 FXRT in '86, with an oil bath fully enclosed chain. (My Yamaha TR1 had the same setup). That FXRT, was a good bike and I put many, many miles on it. I did not like it though....it just felt "wrong" (too top heavy), so I traded for an '85 FXRT. Life improved. My buddy had an '84 Softail. 4 gear tranny, a kick start plus electric, and a chain final drive. Both great bikes, but both screamed out for extra gears. 4 did not cut it. Early Evo's: Showa (Honda owned) front forks, Keihin Carbratooters, KHI (Kawasaki Heavy Industries) internals, in that simple, unstressed design made them a solid bike. Having rebuilt Evo engines, apart from the cone, they are soooo close to the simple Panhead design, but with improved tolerances. The knuckle draggers deny all that of course, and still were thumping their chests chanting, "Harley Fuc.... Davidson", but the Evo did a lot for Harley Davidson in proving reliability was possible, with the right bits fitted. My old '06 TC is OK, but has taken a lot of wrenching to get there. I am lucky, as being retired, having a decent garage, tools and experience keeps it ticking. I know what you mean about liking them, even with their faults. Like cocaine, they have their own, "built in" residual marketing. Luckily, I only subscribe to Harley!
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I have learned when I use my iPhone to make videos, TH-cam processing makes it jump around like this. I guess I need to invest in a GoPro with a screen on it so I can see what I am video'ing. :/
If you get to the point where you are to put diesel in the case... How much do you put in there? Once done do you do anything to get rid of the diesel or just reassemble the motor and fill it up with oil?
Cheap bearings, cheap crank, cheap tensioners, cheap chassis stabilization...
Premium brand my ass. I'll keep the one I got because I've already rebuilt everything, but I'll never buy a new one. Harley proves you don't get what you pay for.
I like to buy evos from 1984 to 1991. Those were good bikes and they didnt have the cheap INA bs in them.
Agreed. I've had 3 and this is the 2nd one I've had to tear apart.
New to twincam. 👀 Watching 👀 learning all I can. Which I do this with everything I own. Tips tricks do's don'ts etc. Thanks for the video.
Since the beginning of the INA bearing I have been changing them out with the Torrington! I recently had a B motor that wore thru the cage & damaged the bearing hole . Had to weld the hole up & remachine it to fit a new Torrington bearing !
Use the right bearing remover because standard internal jaw pullers only work some of the time. I found out the hard way and had to find EVERY crumb of bearing race and every roller to make sure the engine was clean of debris. HD did the INA nonsense twice, first with Evo big twins then with the Twinkies. It was a knowing choice to use marginal parts.
The best replacement is the fueling, they are Timkin…. In Timkin boxes…. Made fin USA.
Great video Dave. It's really disappointing that Harley uses sub par parts like that. 😬
Yes, it is! Thanks for watching as always. 😀
I would like to know the real failure rate. Not when replacing.
Why does HD continue to install these INA bearings knowing they're not robust? Why is the question when all they have to do is use what everyone else uses when they upgrade their cam chest with an S&S or Fueling cam chest kit, we all know bearing replacement is MANDATORY because of this but it makes no sense. I have a 2017 Street Glide Special 107, I just installed a 475 cam chest kit in it from S&S motors, and the new bearing was in the kit, I figured I would upgrade since I now have 22k on the motor here in 2023
Could you smear grease around the rollers before putting the collet in so they would not fall out?
I’m doing cam bearings in my tc88 this next weekend. I will definitely be putting axle grease on them bad boys.
Great idea
What about a thin strip of duct tape
😮Hey man, I'm a first timer working on a twin cam. My front inner cam bearing exploded while riding. I'm missing almost every part of the bearing. Only a bit of outer cage. No peices in oil filter. I gotta tear it down huh?
Sorry to hear that! You definitely have to tear it down but in your case since you wasn't just trying to remove it and the bearing broke, you may need to pull the oil tank and flush it as well. You have to find all the pieces. 😩
They aren't cheaper or bad. Why would you remove that bearing to just install pushrods? Most needle bearings will get damaged when removed as they are not made to be reused
It's a good question and from my training, there are two main answers. 1. The Torrington bearings have a lot more needles to support the cams which helps reliability. 2. (And the main reason) the little metal spacers between the needles in the factory bearings are very thin and prone to break from temperature fluctuations throughout the years. If just 1 of those break off, it has the potential to destroy your motor. If you are already in the cam chest, why not take the time to change them for peace of mind? In the end it's your bike and up to you though. 🤘🤓
@@harleydave2316 its a matter of loading and caged needles properly speced have much lower drag than full needles without cage. If you are running other than stock can profiles is when problems can arise in the caged bearing from the higher loads involved
The issue with just replacing the bearing in a stock bike is that it us easy to get the full needles skewed which damages the crank end and then can allow needles to fall into the crankcase on removal
@@harleydave2316 But the bottom end bearings (all in cages), that turning a twice the speed, live fine?
I guess I've been lucky. Swapped out that bearing on both of my evo's, and the old bearing stayed intact both times.
Thanks for stopping by my channel. Been a sub of yours for a long time now. 🤓
@@harleydave2316 Sure thing, man!
Man! Thanks for the heads up! Great video!
Would sticking some duct tape around the inside of the bearing before pulling it be a good idea maybe? Good video
Is a good idea leaving a magnet 🧲 in the cam chest?
i read where the cage bearing is for fast and light where the constant bearing is for slow and heavy. in my mind the cage should be the better bearing but it's not. another mystery. plumbing wrap on rods good idea.
What if you spray dry iced on the bearings in the casing and then pulled out with the tool.
Thank you for this video.
Greasing the collet? Plus what about changing the orientation of your motor? Change the direction of the bearing parts coming apart? Assuming you were using a lift with clearance to work on in an angle?
I'm not understanding your questions. You use a tool that bolts into the case so there isn't a way to change angles. The Ina bearings are just very brittle and you have to be very careful with them, from my experience. Thanks for watching!
@@harleydave2316
What Mr.Clark is asking is, if you take Axle Grease and apply it to the Collet (the part that goes inside the Bearing for removal), the grease should help aid in catching the needle bearings and other casing parts when removing the INA cheap bearings.
And; Yes there is no-way to change the angle of the tool for removing the bearing..
Great Video man, your Phone Camera got the job done.
Thanks for the good information.
@@darknitethunder How about wiping the inside of the bearing and edges with a rag then putting a strip of duct tape around the inside to try prevent anything from falling out maybe?
@@cj8172
Maybe, if you can get the Ducts tape to stick to Grease...🥸
Drawn Cup needle bearings - both INA and Torrington are brand names. Originally, INA was German, while Torrington was originally “Domestic.”
The INA bearing has a *cage,* while the Torrington is *full complement.*
Full complement bearings can handle greater loads, but tend to complain if they’re turned too fast.
Thanks for the video. I need to get my bearing replaced but while my mechanic is in there I was going to have the cam replaced along with lifters, breather and adjustable push rods What's an approximate cost to get this done? Thanks
It definitely makes sense to get all that done at the same time. Cost depends on shop and where you live. Around my area it would be roughly $800 to install.
@@harleydave2316 Thanks for the reply. I live in New Hampshire. I got a quote yesterday for $ 1500 for an Andrews E 27 S&S breather, S&S lifters and S&S push rods. Sounds expensive compared to your estimate.
@@pmaint1 my estimate was just for labor so if you're getting parts with that cost, it sounds about right.
@@harleydave2316 Thanks. That sounds better.
@@pmaint1 I was not aware that Andrew's made a e27 for twincam. I know they make ev27 for evo. But first I'm hearing bout this e27? Got my curiosity. I put the ev27 in last evo I had. And ran phenomenal!
So why do bottom end bearings, that are a caged, last so long, but this one little cam bearing (the other end is a bushing) going at half crank speed blow????
Good video, just no body explane to how check cam bearing condition and why it must be replaced?
If they are INA bearings...they need to be replaced with Torrington (Koyo) bearings asap
As in, “the loads imposed by the camshafts are sufficient to want the increased capacity of a *full complement/crowded roller* bearing - one where there is no cage separating the rollers/needles.”
Been playing with these bearings since the late eighties.
Strong earth magnet works good
Are Screamin Eagle bearings from INA or at least a good replacement?
I'm not familiar with SE bearings but if they don't have metal spacers between the needles, I would feel safe using them.
I think Screamin Eagle bearings are Torrington bearings so they are good to go
Harley Davidson totally suck..they were well aware of this inferior bearing being crappie yet the bean counters STILL utilized them. I wouldn't want anything new even if it was half price
@Clovis Point crazy huh?
smart idea!
Where at in the crankcase could mine possibly be hiding? The first bearing didn't come out in tact, the second did. I've taken top end apart to gain access and have thoroughly searched with a fiber optic bore camera. I drained oil and searched, sloshed diesel around and drained but have only found one spacer so far. What could I be missing here?
Sorry to hear this...I have been in your position and it sucks emotionally!! Get a extendable magnet that also pivots at the end and get in all the corners of the crankcase. You can find them cheap at just about any auto parts place. How many pieces are you missing??
@@harleydave2316 It appears I'm missing 9 needles and I'd have to recount the spacers, but that's what had me puzzled is I've found one spacer and one needle. Seems like it should be pretty obvious starting out and I would be struggling to find some of the last ones. I'm gonna stop and pickup a flexible magnet today, mine is just telescoping and rigid. Thanks for the reply and I'll update later today or tomorrow.
@@langstonjones69 That does seem odd but they HAVE to be somewhere. Also get a magnet and look around the floor because some of them might have stuck to the tool and dropped when pulling the broken bearing out of the case. I know it sucks but keep calm and find all the parts. Believe me, once you can get a full count of all pieces , the relief of stress is incredible.
@@harleydave2316 I ended up having to split the case to regain my sanity. The deal breaker was when a magnet off of my bore cam came off in there. The location of where I found stuff I just really don't think I would have ever gotten to them. I've got pics I wanted to send, but you didn't have an email on your about me page. Thanks again for your help.
@@langstonjones69 It sounds like you did the right thing, even though it sucks. I'd like to see where you found the pieces so please email bagels2001@yahoo.com . This is an old email that I don't monitor very often but I'll keep an eye out for yours. Did you end up finding all the pieces?
If the old Harleys where as poorly designed / built I wouldn't ever have been one one ,
They were poorly designed. I've had Panheads, one 60's Sportster and 3 Evos (Evo - great bike!).
The twin cam is a polished turd.
People upgrade them mainly to boast to others about a fictional horsepower number they heard from someone else and not a dyno. They certainly are not nimble, quick, good handling, good stopping bikes. My Buell was, but it set fire to three good pairs of Levis. Harleys are just poorly designed cash cows. I have a twin cam and it's a running sore. It looks good though! You never have to fix just one thing. Open that cam chest and bend over, as your credit card will weep.
@@Dodger2879 Yeah.... im an Evo man for life! Preferably 84'-91' models. In my opinion those are the best engines and overall best bikes, harley has ever produced. My guess is that they had to prove something then and the evo bikes saved that company. After that Harley had such a legendary status that cheap parts were just overlooked and nobody cared about it anymore. The prices are absolutely ridiculous too like you said. For some reason i just cant steer away from that brand though.... ive had kawasakis and hondas (loved them too) but nothing sounds and feels like a harley.
@@KD-nb3mp
So true, on all points!
I had an '84 FXRT in '86, with an oil bath fully enclosed chain. (My Yamaha TR1 had the same setup). That FXRT, was a good bike and I put many, many miles on it. I did not like it though....it just felt "wrong" (too top heavy), so I traded for an '85 FXRT. Life improved.
My buddy had an '84 Softail. 4 gear tranny, a kick start plus electric, and a chain final drive. Both great bikes, but both screamed out for extra gears. 4 did not cut it.
Early Evo's:
Showa (Honda owned) front forks, Keihin Carbratooters, KHI (Kawasaki Heavy Industries) internals, in that simple, unstressed design made them a solid bike. Having rebuilt Evo engines, apart from the cone, they are soooo close to the simple Panhead design, but with improved tolerances. The knuckle draggers deny all that of course, and still were thumping their chests chanting, "Harley Fuc.... Davidson", but the Evo did a lot for Harley Davidson in proving reliability was possible, with the right bits fitted.
My old '06 TC is OK, but has taken a lot of wrenching to get there. I am lucky, as being retired, having a decent garage, tools and experience keeps it ticking.
I know what you mean about liking them, even with their faults. Like cocaine, they have their own, "built in" residual marketing.
Luckily, I only subscribe to Harley!