Friendship of convenience. I remember when I watched the show I really wonder why everyone was friends with each other in the show, but Todd stuck out to me. It felt like what people have when they work together or have class together. It's temporary and just there.
"Maybe if people have the right pumped up kicks, they can outrun the bullets!" Was one that I was NOT expecting and immediately Todd earned all my respect! 😂🎉
You made some good points. They were never really friends at all. They needed each other, because they were at their lowest. So, the moment that Todd distanced himself Bojack both he and Bojack were able to less dependent on each other which was for the best
something to note, at the wedding, PC, Peanut Butter and Todd all seek him out while he was distancing himself. showing, im some part, they still want to be a part of his life. PC even used her get out of jail card to set him up at the industry wedding, while not as intimate as the friends, she could have not invited him at all. the only one he saught out was diane.
What a really good look at a rather odd friendship. And recall how Todd tells Maude, how he just kinda hung around Bojack and Bojack wasn’t even that close to him. It’s why Todd feels less damaged by Bojack, he kept his distance first and despite his eccentric behavior, he actually grows up faster than the others. Honestly I feel this is more on Bojack. Todd is a smart, interesting guy. Todd also shows loyalty towards people he cares about. It’s why he remains on good terms with the core group and ends up helping them. Todd does so much to keep Bojack happy and he does tell him about his sexuality, but Bojack never seemed to care about Todd’s problems. Bojack never confided in Todd like Todd did briefly. And he kept ruining Todd’s careers or downright insulting Todd’s decisions. I’d prob be stocked to have a roommate like Todd even if we don’t end up as close friends. But bojack was selfish and completely messed up a chance to have a good friend.
@@StarViewer68 well..was it a friendship? Would bojack even have called it a friendship? Would he regret not keeping it strong in the same way he regretted with herb? With herb, Bojack genuinely seemed happy. He found someone who supported him, introduced him to Hollywood, and who he shared his dreams with. Obviously Bojack never told Herb about his childhood or if he did he didn’t dwell on it. Bojack does not seem to degrade or critique Herb. With Todd, Bojack obviously treats Todd as an annoyance or even as someone he needs to ruin. It’s more about the security of having Todd around rather than actually caring about Todd. When Bojack has his major dream in the finale arc, I don’t think Todd makes an appearance or at the very least has a substantial moment in that dream. In addition, Bojack does not seem beat up over how he and Todd drifted apart even if they remain civil.
Love your BoJack videos! It’s true that Todd and BoJack was a friendship based on convenience and it felt emotionally draining (especially for Todd). I would love to see you explore BoJack and Sarah Lynn’s relationship and the complexities surrounding it.
Every single person in BoJack's life went out of their way for him until he royally screwed up. This show is how bad people who never take credit for their actions eventually end up.
Nah, at least people with BPD actually can have true connections and love others. Bojack can only use others. Maybe he will get "better" one day, but he's like 60 in the current timeline. You can't become a truly different person at that age tbh
I disagree that Bojack Horseman has BPD. I would say he has narcissistic personality disorder & Todd was his narcissistic supply. He looks down upon him. He feels better since he considers Todd to be "worse" than him.
@zoeygaudet688 I do think Sarah Lynn might have BPD considering her mood changes quickly & she was more than upset when her relationship with Andrew Garfield.
bpd person here! personally think bojack is more of a covert narcissist with some bpd traits (as both disorders have traits that overlap) but not enough to qualify having bpd. his fear of abandonment doesn't manifest as consistently and as intesnsely as mine or from other borderlines i've seen, in my experience it's a near daily dilemma that leaves me agonizing to the point of extreme physical pain. the same can be said for other hallmark traits of bpd as well, i think he has them but only to a certain degree (for ex: fear of abandonment is a symptom of bpd, but it doesn't mean that people with other diagnosis or even neurotypical people can't have that same fear)
It’s weird how when I first watched this show I just put it on in the background while I was in college and only realized how deep this show was through all these youtube videos and rewatching episodes.
I think it's a really solid point that if Todd truly thought of Bojack as a friend, it wouldn't have taken a whole decade for him to see how awful Bojack was to everybody. Todd has proven he's smart enough to build all kinds of stuff, even if it's spontaneous. So he must have never spent any time thinking about his true nature at all, for years
this is so underrated!!!! such a good and concise video. i felt the same when watching the show -- i think i really wanted them to be friends, but it never felt like bojack really appreciated todd as a person
I think what they had wasn't a lack of a friendship, while it wasn't always a friendship either but rather... it was the kindling of a friendship... that Bojack kept constantly at just a kindle instead of letting it fully burn into a proper friendship. Todd was willing to put up with a lot, however Bojack constantly sabotaging him eventually put out even the kindling. Still, Todd shows a willingness to at least always have the potential for a friendship available for Bojack, which says a LOT about both Todd's maturity of self, as well as his ability to empathize with people whom... might not deserve it.
From my experiences there is a type of toxic freind who keeps you around and wants to hear how your doing during personal struggles but its not because they care about you. They actually like seeing you struggle because it makes them feel better about their own lives. Bojack like Todd because he made him feel better about himself and his life choices. When the show first started Todd is homeless, jobless, aimless in life and seem to come from a trouble background. This would maje Bojack feel better about his own toxic life by comparing himself to Todd and he could feel superior to him by talking down on him. Bojack never wanted to see Todd grow, find any success or deeper meaning in life. Which is why he ruined his rock opera, was always putting him down and ruined his relationship with Emily because if Todd started to have a happier life then Bojack can't use him to feel good about his own poor life choices anymore. There are "freinds" in real life who will do this to you. Its always better to cut them off just like Todd did.
Todd was a character that took a couple of watches for me to warm up too. I thought his cluelessness and laziness was very annoying and i have personal experiences of people similar to Todd mooch wise, except they werent as positive or upbeat and i had to kick them out instead of them moving out in their own like Todd does. Hes one of my favorite characters and i do try to take a page from his upbeat nature. 'Hooray for Todd!'
I absolutley loved this video, it really had me thinking about a dead show's failed broship xD. and as someone who thinks about this show alot, I didnt even consider how weird their relationshi[ or diet friendship, truly is. a thought i had though about bojacks grand gesture of saving todd from the improv cult is he was just fleeing from new mexico after his creep shit he tried to pull on the carsons. and it makes me wonder if todd would have been rescued if bojack didnt almost get arrested and ran away
I don't think bojack was fleeing from the police, he was only told to leave. No legal action happened, just him leaving. But I do wonder what would have happened and what would've happened to Todd if bojack never attempted what he did.
"moment fans might not even remember" nah that scene was the most memorable in the series for me? I can relate to and have been both sides of that conversation
The fact that we can have these deep and serious thematic discussions about a show where the main character is an anthropomorphic horse just goes to show how amazing the writing in BoJack Horseman was.
Been loving the analysis videos on BoJack's friendships! Would you be interested in doing one on Herb? I recently rewatched the whole series for the first time since it was coming out and I was really struck by how the last season brings him back in a major way. For me, it recontextualized some of BoJack's decisions throughout the show and feelings towards him. Some stuff that BoJack imagines him saying in TVFHD and the fact that Herb is basically BoJack's psychopomp is specifically really interesting to me and not discussed enough imo.
1:15 Okay nitpick You kinda read this response weird. I think you thought he was saying okay as in "That's okay" but he's very clearly upset by the response and is kind of at a loss for words. He doesn't WANT to be seen like this, he doesn't want Todd's expectations of him lowered or his respect lost. He's not saying "Oh if that's what you gotta do" he's awkwardly accepting what he was just told.
Yes! Its an alarming affirmation for bojack to hear the truth. Wether he respects,likes or needs todd as a body in the room, the sheer tone absolutely expresseses disappointment from someone who he either might enjoy being around or reflecting that it may be what everyone else thinks too.
I had a similar relationship in 2022. My former roommate kept blaming me for his own failures. Our "friendship" ended before it got better. Don't trust a guy who has two smartphones.
Todd and Bojack are equally fucked up. Their not bad people, but they have sirious issues. Both were using eachother in a toxic transactional relationship.
yes but peopel dont adressthe problem with Todd : He was a parasite who enjoys the luxe of the house of Bojack, his money and all. He was a parasite but because he was a nice one nobody says anything . Todd is a child man who is not able to speak to adress his problems : he can't talkt to his mom or his step dad at first and use weird scheme , with Emily too ( she is a grow ass women who decide to sleep with Bojack but he was not mad at her but just Bojack ). They were bad for each other
I found Todd to be an incredibly annoying character. He was a man child where literally all the adults around him had to clean up his messes. He was the physical embodiment of failing upwards and I loved how the ep w/his step-dad showed that. Bojack aint perfect but Todd had problems too. But yes this video is great 😊.
I don't think Todd was very just to bojack, I mean yeah he ruined the rock opera but he wouldn't even have wrote if it wasn't for bojack, and also would have ruined it if he didn't care for Todd not to leave him, ever since that Todd was very cold to bojack, and it didn't felt very right to treat him that way
Todd isn't obligated to give Bojack anything period, let alone after that. Acting like wanting to have distance from people is some kind of injustice or wrongdoing is horrible.
@@littlemoth4956 But it is, what I find wrong is that Todd always judged bojack on his wrongdoings, but never acknowledge anything good he did for him, and also always act like Bojack doesn't really care for him, when he clearly does but his way of caring about that is fucked up, Bojack cared so much for Todd attention that he was willing to ruin his dream just to keep him by his side, while Todd would not give Bojack another chance after that
Man your generation tires me (my generation certainly does as well). Where all relationships are seen as commodities. "Oh after a 2nd time it's much less likely to stick around". What kind of nightmarish hell hole are you all living in? Is everyone on a hunt for echo chambers? Where no one is difficult, and everyone looking and praying in the same direction? I don't understand how people think that is life.
Friendship of convenience. I remember when I watched the show I really wonder why everyone was friends with each other in the show, but Todd stuck out to me. It felt like what people have when they work together or have class together. It's temporary and just there.
Fool me once
Fool me twice
Fool me chicken soup with rice
-Todd Chavez, voice of a generation
fool me once, shame on me.
fool me twice, fiddle dee-dee
"Maybe if people have the right pumped up kicks, they can outrun the bullets!" Was one that I was NOT expecting and immediately Todd earned all my respect! 😂🎉
maybe voice of losers but not a generation
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on glue (Bojack)
Yayyy todd episode!
I do think the ending of
°he doesn't wanna rekindle a relationship that wasn't there°
Was really impactful
You made some good points. They were never really friends at all. They needed each other, because they were at their lowest. So, the moment that Todd distanced himself Bojack both he and Bojack were able to less dependent on each other which was for the best
ioo
doesn’t that make them friends? they just weren’t healthy friends. but most friendships are toxic
something to note, at the wedding, PC, Peanut Butter and Todd all seek him out while he was distancing himself. showing, im some part, they still want to be a part of his life. PC even used her get out of jail card to set him up at the industry wedding, while not as intimate as the friends, she could have not invited him at all. the only one he saught out was diane.
What a really good look at a rather odd friendship. And recall how Todd tells Maude, how he just kinda hung around Bojack and Bojack wasn’t even that close to him. It’s why Todd feels less damaged by Bojack, he kept his distance first and despite his eccentric behavior, he actually grows up faster than the others.
Honestly I feel this is more on Bojack. Todd is a smart, interesting guy. Todd also shows loyalty towards people he cares about. It’s why he remains on good terms with the core group and ends up helping them. Todd does so much to keep Bojack happy and he does tell him about his sexuality, but Bojack never seemed to care about Todd’s problems. Bojack never confided in Todd like Todd did briefly. And he kept ruining Todd’s careers or downright insulting Todd’s decisions. I’d prob be stocked to have a roommate like Todd even if we don’t end up as close friends.
But bojack was selfish and completely messed up a chance to have a good friend.
Which sucks, because this would make the second friendship Bojack ruined. His relationship with Herb Kazazz being the first friendship.
@@StarViewer68 well..was it a friendship? Would bojack even have called it a friendship? Would he regret not keeping it strong in the same way he regretted with herb?
With herb, Bojack genuinely seemed happy. He found someone who supported him, introduced him to Hollywood, and who he shared his dreams with. Obviously Bojack never told Herb about his childhood or if he did he didn’t dwell on it. Bojack does not seem to degrade or critique Herb.
With Todd, Bojack obviously treats Todd as an annoyance or even as someone he needs to ruin. It’s more about the security of having Todd around rather than actually caring about Todd. When Bojack has his major dream in the finale arc, I don’t think Todd makes an appearance or at the very least has a substantial moment in that dream. In addition, Bojack does not seem beat up over how he and Todd drifted apart even if they remain civil.
@@bradhorowitz2765 well, that's because the people in the dream were people who passed. So it would have made no sense for him to show up.
I was the Todd to someone's BoJack. Never again.
I was the Diane to someone's Bojack. I don't want that again either.
I was the character actress, Margot Martindale to someone’s Bojack never again
Love your BoJack videos! It’s true that Todd and BoJack was a friendship based on convenience and it felt emotionally draining (especially for Todd). I would love to see you explore BoJack and Sarah Lynn’s relationship and the complexities surrounding it.
Bojack was so toxic that a friendship with him was impossible. Nobody else was really friends with Bojack either.
Every single person in BoJack's life went out of their way for him until he royally screwed up.
This show is how bad people who never take credit for their actions eventually end up.
Man now I REALLY want to rewatch this show! ( for the 9th Time 💀 )
Same, bro. Same.
dude this is not the way you should be studying for psychology school lol
I would, but the final seasons make me wanna factory reset, so I’ll wait for when I’m in a better mood XD
Dont tempt me
I genuinely think bojack wanted todd around because he has borderline personality disorder and doesn’t want to be alone
Nah, at least people with BPD actually can have true connections and love others. Bojack can only use others. Maybe he will get "better" one day, but he's like 60 in the current timeline. You can't become a truly different person at that age tbh
I disagree that Bojack Horseman has BPD. I would say he has narcissistic personality disorder & Todd was his narcissistic supply. He looks down upon him. He feels better since he considers Todd to be "worse" than him.
@@gogetyourgun1490 true and he always cares about himself more it’s very noticeable in the first three seasons of the show
@zoeygaudet688 I do think Sarah Lynn might have BPD considering her mood changes quickly & she was more than upset when her relationship with Andrew Garfield.
bpd person here! personally think bojack is more of a covert narcissist with some bpd traits (as both disorders have traits that overlap) but not enough to qualify having bpd. his fear of abandonment doesn't manifest as consistently and as intesnsely as mine or from other borderlines i've seen, in my experience it's a near daily dilemma that leaves me agonizing to the point of extreme physical pain. the same can be said for other hallmark traits of bpd as well, i think he has them but only to a certain degree (for ex: fear of abandonment is a symptom of bpd, but it doesn't mean that people with other diagnosis or even neurotypical people can't have that same fear)
It’s weird how when I first watched this show I just put it on in the background while I was in college and only realized how deep this show was through all these youtube videos and rewatching episodes.
I think it's a really solid point that if Todd truly thought of Bojack as a friend, it wouldn't have taken a whole decade for him to see how awful Bojack was to everybody. Todd has proven he's smart enough to build all kinds of stuff, even if it's spontaneous. So he must have never spent any time thinking about his true nature at all, for years
this is so underrated!!!! such a good and concise video. i felt the same when watching the show -- i think i really wanted them to be friends, but it never felt like bojack really appreciated todd as a person
Yep they were lowkey codependent
I loved this..Todd seems like such a basic side character, but he’s so down to earth and deep. Love it!
I think what they had wasn't a lack of a friendship, while it wasn't always a friendship either but rather... it was the kindling of a friendship... that Bojack kept constantly at just a kindle instead of letting it fully burn into a proper friendship. Todd was willing to put up with a lot, however Bojack constantly sabotaging him eventually put out even the kindling. Still, Todd shows a willingness to at least always have the potential for a friendship available for Bojack, which says a LOT about both Todd's maturity of self, as well as his ability to empathize with people whom... might not deserve it.
Todd made a great placeholder, and punching bag for Bojack 😢 glad he grew up and realized that
The best thing bojack ever did for him was put his gf on Todds asexual app. That was so cute
From my experiences there is a type of toxic freind who keeps you around and wants to hear how your doing during personal struggles but its not because they care about you. They actually like seeing you struggle because it makes them feel better about their own lives.
Bojack like Todd because he made him feel better about himself and his life choices. When the show first started Todd is homeless, jobless, aimless in life and seem to come from a trouble background. This would maje Bojack feel better about his own toxic life by comparing himself to Todd and he could feel superior to him by talking down on him. Bojack never wanted to see Todd grow, find any success or deeper meaning in life. Which is why he ruined his rock opera, was always putting him down and ruined his relationship with Emily because if Todd started to have a happier life then Bojack can't use him to feel good about his own poor life choices anymore.
There are "freinds" in real life who will do this to you. Its always better to cut them off just like Todd did.
Todd deserved so much better. 💔😔
LITERALLY im so happy he got with Maud theyre literally adorable
off topic but your tomedd pfp!! it warms my heart😭i’ve shipped them for 7 years
Todd was a character that took a couple of watches for me to warm up too. I thought his cluelessness and laziness was very annoying and i have personal experiences of people similar to Todd mooch wise, except they werent as positive or upbeat and i had to kick them out instead of them moving out in their own like Todd does. Hes one of my favorite characters and i do try to take a page from his upbeat nature. 'Hooray for Todd!'
i mean... Todd literally crashed in BoJack's domicile one day and thats how they met.
They were never really portrayed as frends.
I had a friendship similar to this. A symbiotic friendship. Had to end it though and im better for it
I absolutley loved this video, it really had me thinking about a dead show's failed broship xD. and as someone who thinks about this show alot, I didnt even consider how weird their relationshi[ or diet friendship, truly is. a thought i had though about bojacks grand gesture of saving todd from the improv cult is he was just fleeing from new mexico after his creep shit he tried to pull on the carsons. and it makes me wonder if todd would have been rescued if bojack didnt almost get arrested and ran away
I don't think bojack was fleeing from the police, he was only told to leave. No legal action happened, just him leaving. But I do wonder what would have happened and what would've happened to Todd if bojack never attempted what he did.
I think sometimes loney people atract other loney people who just stay with because they don't want to be loney anymore.
True
"moment fans might not even remember" nah that scene was the most memorable in the series for me? I can relate to and have been both sides of that conversation
This is true.. great examination
I love Todd, he is my fav character
I always wanted them to be best buds
The fact that we can have these deep and serious thematic discussions about a show where the main character is an anthropomorphic horse just goes to show how amazing the writing in BoJack Horseman was.
Well yeah, the show would be too depressing to watch if they were all human people.
@@MK_ULTRA420we’d lose like half the jokes and the catchy name 💀
There’s levels to friendship
Bojack and Todd were friends. Their friendship was just toxic.
Great video!
Been loving the analysis videos on BoJack's friendships! Would you be interested in doing one on Herb? I recently rewatched the whole series for the first time since it was coming out and I was really struck by how the last season brings him back in a major way. For me, it recontextualized some of BoJack's decisions throughout the show and feelings towards him. Some stuff that BoJack imagines him saying in TVFHD and the fact that Herb is basically BoJack's psychopomp is specifically really interesting to me and not discussed enough imo.
kicked out of his house
crashing in bojack's house
using bojack's house without his approval
THEY WERE NEVER FRIENDS
Great video! Thanks for sharing your work
1:15
Okay nitpick
You kinda read this response weird. I think you thought he was saying okay as in "That's okay" but he's very clearly upset by the response and is kind of at a loss for words. He doesn't WANT to be seen like this, he doesn't want Todd's expectations of him lowered or his respect lost.
He's not saying "Oh if that's what you gotta do" he's awkwardly accepting what he was just told.
Yes! Its an alarming affirmation for bojack to hear the truth. Wether he respects,likes or needs todd as a body in the room, the sheer tone absolutely expresseses disappointment from someone who he either might enjoy being around or reflecting that it may be what everyone else thinks too.
It’s just for plot, so many characters have plot armour in this show.
I had a similar relationship in 2022. My former roommate kept blaming me for his own failures. Our "friendship" ended before it got better. Don't trust a guy who has two smartphones.
Todd was a stray that Bojack took in
Another Bojack video! We eating good tonight, boys!
Toad is by far my favorite character in the show, and BJ just shits on him.
I love Todd though
There were people who thought they were friends?
i just heard a song that samples that scene at the end of its you
What song???
What song, I need to knowwwww
I didn't like Todd but Bojack treated him like garbage
Todd and Bojack are equally fucked up. Their not bad people, but they have sirious issues. Both were using eachother in a toxic transactional relationship.
heyyyyy
isn't he the Horse from Horsin' Around?
Nah
You can't really say that they were ever really friends
Moreso than Jesse and Walt
At what point do Diane and Princess Carolyn become friends?
I think it was the abortion where PC lets her stay at her home to rest up.
Uhm, thanks for pointing out the obvious
They were not friends they were family
I disagree
Please, if you could do a video on Diane and PC!
Do an attack on titan video 🙏
I normally don't like Todd cuz he's annoying, but I do enjoy moments when he finally put his foot down.
0:08 ugh I hate when people say that. heReS tHE THiNg
It is literally 3 seconds of a 9 and a half minute long video my guy. Also their "motif" for the bojack series, so 🤷
@@towhee3400 my people will be here soon
@@towhee3400
Bruh it's a joke from the show 😭
Do you also hate when people say “so listen”?
jerb kazzaz, is that you?
Yes, i am PC
yes but peopel dont adressthe problem with Todd : He was a parasite who enjoys the luxe of the house of Bojack, his money and all. He was a parasite but because he was a nice one nobody says anything . Todd is a child man who is not able to speak to adress his problems : he can't talkt to his mom or his step dad at first and use weird scheme , with Emily too ( she is a grow ass women who decide to sleep with Bojack but he was not mad at her but just Bojack ). They were bad for each other
Bro what come on now
Makes sense to me
So true!
I found Todd to be an incredibly annoying character. He was a man child where literally all the adults around him had to clean up his messes. He was the physical embodiment of failing upwards and I loved how the ep w/his step-dad showed that. Bojack aint perfect but Todd had problems too. But yes this video is great 😊.
I don't think Todd was very just to bojack, I mean yeah he ruined the rock opera but he wouldn't even have wrote if it wasn't for bojack, and also would have ruined it if he didn't care for Todd not to leave him, ever since that Todd was very cold to bojack, and it didn't felt very right to treat him that way
Todd isn't obligated to give Bojack anything period, let alone after that. Acting like wanting to have distance from people is some kind of injustice or wrongdoing is horrible.
@@littlemoth4956 But it is, what I find wrong is that Todd always judged bojack on his wrongdoings, but never acknowledge anything good he did for him, and also always act like Bojack doesn't really care for him, when he clearly does but his way of caring about that is fucked up, Bojack cared so much for Todd attention that he was willing to ruin his dream just to keep him by his side, while Todd would not give Bojack another chance after that
Man your generation tires me (my generation certainly does as well). Where all relationships are seen as commodities. "Oh after a 2nd time it's much less likely to stick around". What kind of nightmarish hell hole are you all living in? Is everyone on a hunt for echo chambers? Where no one is difficult, and everyone looking and praying in the same direction?
I don't understand how people think that is life.