Love the .10 but this test validated my choice of .45 for home defense. Over penetration is of paramount consideration for myself. Thanks for this! Subbed!
Meh, I use a simple 9mm with hollow point... It's doubtful that it will go through a perp, and even if it does by chance, it's unlikely to go through the walls of my residence as the walls are concrete and chicken wire instead of drywall (because the building was built in 1912)
.10 isn’t 10mm. Shows you’re very uneducated. Of course you’d go with a 45 most uneducated people do. You don’t understand or know what 10mm is. You can go from 135 or even lower in some ammo manufactures. Light bullet with 700+ ftlbs at the muzzle .40******* yes it’s not .10 it’s .40 cal bullet going 1600 fps out of a full-size handgun barrel expands rapidly and doesn’t penetrate that much. It’s simply research and doing your own testing. 10mm beats 45 all the way around because of its versatility.
Exactly! I always get a kick out of u toobers that compare .45 to anything else and turn it into a d*ck swinging contest. Doesn't matter what caliber you have, even a .22 long rifle, you certainly wouldn't want to be on the receiving end.
I just got into 10mm and I really like it. Beyond the amazing performance it fits my hand much better than my old .45 that loved for so long. Thinking I may need to look into compact 10mm's too now...
That's how I feel about it. I've got a Springfield Armory XDM 10 mm and a 45. My first 45 was a Hi-Point. I think it weighed about 25 lbs LOL! I kid you not, I found a paddle holster for it but you could not wear it on your side. You had to get the belt so tight it would kill you or it just pulled your pants right down. It was a great shooting gun though. I need to go shoot the 10. I just bought it round before big bad hurricane Debbie came rolling in. I bought a bunch of Underwood Ammo for it. That'll get the job done!
Considering .45acp is basically subsonic it was never intended for penetration. Its up side was its size and weight against unarmored humans. So as such being bigger but slower 45 will never outperform anything that's going faster however it will stand pound for pound in tissue damage
Except it doesn't, as shown by the ballistics gel test and 100s of other examples of terminal ballistics data comparing the two. That being said, I wouldn't want to be shot by either, and in 99% of defense cases they'll both get the job done. Luv me .45 Luv me 10mm Simple as
Honestly, both are excellent choices for a defensive handgun choice. On the ballistics gel, though I would def take the 45. Coming to a complete stop quickly means maximum energy transfer. The 10mm exited the block meaning that it didn't transfer all its energy. But to be fair and not upset anyone, I have both!
Picked up a Tanfoglio Witness 10mm for my backpacking gun about 15 years ago. Snagged Hi-Point's 10mm carbine for Xmas a bit over a year ago. Both are very fun out at the range, and I'm glad 10mm prices are roughly on parity with .45acp locally.
I picked up a 10mm for the woods after reading that most Alaskan Rangers carry 10mm. I'm good if I never have an aggressive bear encounter, but apart from carrying a heavy .44 mag or 454 Casul, a 10mm with 200 grn ball ammo has shown to be effective against smaller (black) bears.
If you're going to carry a carbine you might as well just carry something like a Kel-Tec 12 gauge with slugs I did a bunch of research and the most common Grizzly defense gun in Alaska is a 12 gauge with slugs
True that a 12 gauge is a goto for very close encounters. But the Alaskan Fish and Wildlife and maybe even Troopers carry 10mm to give them a little more advantage against bigger encounters like bears.
45 was adopted to stop an opponent, over the 38 used at the time. The only time I considered penitration is with bears. Any other I prefer the 45acp. Great video 😊
And that was over 50 years ago using FMJ on cattle that had no idea they were about to get shot. Get some meth head or pissed off bear coming at you, unless you separate the brain from the cord, it’s not stopping regardless of magic calibers.
Original 45 Colt loads were designed to stop cavalry horses. 255gr doing 1050 fps. Later they were reduced in power due to difficulty of soldiers handling the powerful load. .45acp was designed to be similar to the later 45 Colt loads, not original.
@@jakerazmataz852 It's entertainment. His whole shpeel is more irony than anything: "Don't let ballistics drive you bananas!" Thing is, his ballistic testing is more recreational and doesn't generate any real useful information, unless you're hunting wood blocks, steel plates, or concrete bricks. Fun, interesting, but not particularly useful for defense or meat harvesting.
Great video, thanks. I used to carry .45 back in the early 80s because I was experienced in 1911 from my Army Ranger days. Then switched Departments and dad said no on automatics. Around 1989 new chief said okay for autos but just 9mm. Then around 1999 got the Okay for .45 Acp, again. So bought a Glock, actually a full size and a compact. After retirement and a move to upper Michigan plus seeing a mama black bear with 2 cubs while walking my dog, I bought a 10mm Springfield Armory. It is not a good feeling to be within 25 yards of mama bear with only a Ruger LC9 should she try and attack. I love my 10mm
@@gotindrachenhart I would love a .45-70 wheel gun, but I had 2 rifles in that caliber and they both had "substantial recoil". It is tough to think about that amount of recoil in my hands. I have shot .44 , .357, .41 mags so I can handle a good amount of recoil, but I don't want to shoot anything that hurts my hands that badly anymore.
@@scottroder5516 ha! Fair enough man! Closest I've come to that is .444 Marlin and that was pretty punishing. I was just trying to think of a commonly available big bore one could reasonably pack around that would be effective vs bear etc :D
Man, that federal HST is absolutely amazing self defense ammunition! Glad they donated it to you. Pretty pricey but well worth it if your life depends on it.
Pricey but you just need enough for a mag or two and then practice with it however often you deem necessary to see how it shoots through your gun. Definitely not plinking ammo. The home defense 12 gauge stuff i get is $2.50 a shell. Needless to say I've only shot enough to see how it behaves in my gun and the rest is guarded like gold bullion lol
@@d-unit-outdoorsYup you really don't realize it till you actually look at the ballistics and compare. No more store bought defense ammo for me although I do trust Federal HST and Sig Vcrown in terms of reliability, the ballistics are just not as favorable.
@@bijk1911 Yeah for sure. If that’s all I had I’d trust it for sure! HST’s are amazing, that’s what I use for 9mm defense loads. But why not get full power out of it if you’re packing that extra millimeter. 😉
@@d-unit-outdoorsThe Liberty copper monolithics are rated at 780ft/lbs of energy, and the expansion is insane as well, just remember that they are designed for two legged targets and not dangerous game in the back country...
.45 was actually designated as the smallest caliber necessary to dispatch bovine in the Thompson LaGarde tests in 1904. Tests which were conducted because during the Moro Rebellion, we were fighting against doped up Phillipinos who didn't care about getting shot with a .38 caliber. Enter the Thompson LaGarde tests where .45acp was proven as our next pistol caliber by dispatching cattle. John Moses Browning then designed the 1911 around the .45acp cartridge. So technically, you are right, but technically, you are wrong. That particular caliber was proven to kill cattle within 10 seconds of a lung shot. It'll kill a bear.. it'll also kill a doped up phillipino who dgaf about being shot with a 9mil
10mm Auto, simply the most versatile handgun cartridge out there! You want good self-defense ammo against criminals: Civil Defense 60 grain, 2,400 FPS. You something that can take down a Grizzly Bear: Underwood 200 grain hardcast, 1,250 FPS! And 220 grain hard cast, 1,200 FPS! You want something in the middle? Underwood 150 grain Xtreme Penetrater, 1425 FPS. Or even just standard 180 grain FMJ! 10mm can almost do it all! Absolutely love this cartridge!
Dumping all 230 grains of energy in 4.5" inches of wood is the reason it was used for trench warfare in WW2. Marines and Army couldn't afford to have the enemy take a handful of shots after being hit a few yards away. A 230gr 45acp was a meat stopper. The Colt 1911 by browning design and the Thompson .45 machine gun was massive in urban combat. Its design was perfect for 50 yards or less and made big holes after being hit very very hard. With high adrenaline some solders didn't know they were even hit with the 9mm , not with the .45 it was a bone breaker with shock and awe.
Complete and utter bullshit. The whole reason 30 carbine was developed was because .45 loads back then were anemic when compared to today, and were shit at penetration.
@@FirstnameLastname-do1px Uh man, you gotta remember the common pistol rounds of the day; it's not exactly bullshit. 7.65 longue, .32 acp, .380 acp, 9mm luger; it is superior to all of those in the factors he mentioned provided they are all using FMJ rounds. Today it might be more of a joke as FMJ; back then it was the strongest commonly available pistol caliber; and .30 carbine is an intermediate caliber so it's not really in the running, thats like comparing apples to fish sticks. Also I think he meant World War 1, and in urban combat within 50 yards; weapons using this caliber off handgun round(key word, handgun) Had an advantage over the other commonly used, handgun ammunition supplied; *Sub- machine guns* So it's really an issue of context. The .45 acp also existed for 37 years longer than the .30 carbine, which only achieved widespread distribution toward the latter half of ww2; and then mostly in the hands of 2nd line troops. Also during the korean war and vietnam, the .30 carbine was heavily lamented by those who wished they had stronger, longer reaching cartridges like 7.62x51mm nato; they would even chose 5.56 over that if given the opportunity during vietnam which was the last common use of .30 carbine. Fudds today say .30 carbine was bad, 5.56 was bad, and 7.62 nato was even bad in comparison to .30-06. Before the .45 acp entered service I'm sure german fudds thought anything that wasn't at least 9mm luger for pistol caliber was also bad but they got one upped on that in less than 4 years.. So really man, you just come across as a fudd; and nobody likes fudds.. Don't compare burgers to burritos...
Okay, 10mm is an all-time favorite for me. It did out penetrate the .45 ACP and make a bigger wound channel. I'd say it won except for you saying you were taking into account the FBI sweet spot. There the .45 wins and in a case of self-defense over-penetration matters. But I never doubted the 10mm would come out on top.
Sorry, but 10mm beats 45, even when sticking strictly to the FBI standard. There are many loads to choose from. Also, CLEAR gel is NOT used for the FBI standard AND the block is only 16" long, which does not allow for the maximum 18" penetration for the FBI standard. Don't be biased.
@@BlackSpade72 No the last 1911a1 was bought in 1942 in vietnam he would not got have kept the sidearm. Everything belongs to the base you do not get to take it home. the only way he still has was he claimed it was lost and snuck it back into the country. in 1985 most all remaining 1911a1s were transferred to the marines. If you in basic training qualified with 1911 you could keep it for the reminder of you career. But it stated in the armory. after 2001 or so when you retired you could by the weapon. mine cost 22USD. It was made by Reminting Rand in 1942.
The 10mm and or 9mm are both meant to penetrate, this is why they are smaller so they can go faster and have less air resenstance. The 45 acp on the other hand is built for stopping power which is why it's a lot bigger but moves slower therefore transfering more energy.
You are right. However the 10mm has more stopping power than a 45 anyday. Check out civil liberty defense 10mm ammunition. I carry them in my edc. They shoot at 2400 fps and 800+ muzzle energy 🫡
@@Trxpout muzzle velocity or muzzle energy are given too much weight by folks. Lehigh not so extreme penetrator 140gr 10mm is 1500fps and 700ft lbs. Underwood 220gr hard cast only 1200fps but has the same 700fl lbs of energy at the muzzle. The gimmick Lehigh "penetrator" round goes ~25 inches in gel. The slower but heavier 220gr goes 62.5" (three times the penetration) and out the back of the last gel block. Mass is key to penetration. Thats why the 45 doesnt need velocity. On soft targets a good .45 HP (like HST) is far superior to 10mm. And i'm not a fanboy. I have both. The .45 for soft skinned critters and the 10mm for woods carry. The .45 HST reliably opens to ~.90" where the 10mm is in the .65" range. That is a MUCH bigger hole/area of damage.
@@morbo5061 oh no for sure 45 has a far bigger wound. But 10mm has a harder hit to the nerve system. Ive ran multiple .45 ammo, 10mm ammo, from 230 grains to 60 grain civil liberty, speed kills and the 10mm has a far superior fps speed. 2400 fps is the speed of sound , like ive i said those are also rife velocity coming out of a pistol. The 10 may not leave a bigger exit wound , but if your talking damage to the tissue, nerves, shock system the 10 is and will always be superior. Check out the 10mm civil liberty gel test, the 10 leaves more multiple nasty permanent channels. .45 is in no way weak, but the only thing it has over 10mm is the size of the wound, test show and prove time and time again 10mm is superior.
@Trxpout how much does that teeny little disc penetrate? Looked like about 12" in bare gel? Not enough mass to make use of any of that energy because it loses it too quickly. Velocity means absolutely zero until about 2000fps. No permanent wounding away from the wound channel happens until about that velocity. Problem is that little 60gr bullet can't retain it and make it useful. I'm a 52yr old engineer and have spent many hours over the years studying it and my determination is those are snake oil and no way I'd carry those. But you do what you think is going to work for you.
As long as you buy the proper 10mm rounds and not the rounds that are glorified .40 cal, the 10mm is the way to go. The 10mm became my favorite caliber about 4 or 5 years ago and once I got over the sticker shock, it became my go-to round. I still use firearms that are chambered in 9mm for plinking, especially owning several 9 mm pistols over the years and the ammo being cheaper, but 10mm is awesome. Can't believe I just found your channel. Great humor. Liked and subbed. 👍
@@ManOfChaiTea Not everyone lives in a city environment and there are plenty of hollow point rounds that don't over penetrate. The whole "over penetration" thing has gotten way out of control. Some people, (not saying you) just parrot what they hear other people saying. People have made it sound like every time a 10mm is fired it over penetrates and hits someone. Not true, and the correct ammo will take care of that concern. If people are going to be in an area where that is a possibility, then they need to have the correct ammunition. The real reason that the FBI and some other agencies got rid of the 10mm is because of the recoil. They had too many people failing to qualify at the range. The over penetration thing became a crutch for lots of agencies and shooters that just don't shoot the 10mm as well as the 9mm.
Double tap has been shown in multiple other testers with chronographs to blatantly over rate, the speed of their bullets and those the muscle energy. In my own comparisons up here in Alaska I find that double tap does not have the speed and that’s the kinetic energy of Underwood Buffalo boar, or the other rounds you’ve mentioned. That being said, double tap is still vastly superior to the Federal round which was tested! I would place double tap between the high-end boutique rounds like Underwood and Buffalo boar and your larger companies like federal, who refuse to load the 10 mm to the old more respects because the lawyers get involved and so large companies like federal will not load the 10 mm to its original Specifications and true potential. You can always trust lawyers to ruin anything and everything in life! @@exothermal.sprocket
And to add, I bet I can find more available off the shelf 45acp ammo, and much cheaper than 10mm. I carry federal PD in 230grain in my 45s. And nobody is going to use FMJ for personal defense unless you live in a backward stated like NJ.
@@kfelix2934 I have handguns with both, its pretty much the same, aluminum blazer is even cheaper actually, brass blazer is like exactly the same as federal .45 or blazer .45
1,100 feet per second 10mm? You’re using underpowered 10mm rounds bro. The whole point of carrying a 10mm is for the 1600 to 1800 feet per second Underwood rounds. Put that against the 900 feet per second Plus P 45 ACP and you’ll see the real difference.
Over penetration is a concern in a combat (self defence) shoothong, in my opinion. I went to the 45 ACP just for that reason. I do like seeing comparisons between firearm rounds👍👍. Thanks Bob an OLD retired LEO in Nevada
I'm a trauma nurse. I've seen more wounds with a entrance and exit that caused more bleeding. the myth of a bullet not over penatrating is taken out of context
Could you please explain in more detail? I'm Intrigued by your medical aspect . You say the myth about a bullet not over penetrating is taken out of context.
@@MrCora1212 Not really out of context. Majority of GSW are smaller calibers like the 9mm. From a medical standpoint, having an entrance and exit wound increases the rate that someone loses blood and increases the chance of the wound being fatal. From a defense standpoint, an exit wound is a bad thing. If you shot an assailant, and the round, after exiting the target, strikes anybody or anything of value afterwards, you're liable. The property owner can sue you, or an individual that was shot can sue and press criminal charges. So from a self defense standpoint, you want your round to create large temporary and permanent wound channels in shutdown organs and cause loss of fluids, but not go through the subject and strike another person or valuable object. The 45 ACP moves slower (around the 800-850fps) is less likely to over penetrate a target compared to a 10mm traveling around 1200-1300fps. Gun fight, you want to stop the threat and not get sued, .45 is more likely to do that than a 10 or 9mm round.
@@MrCora1212 He isnt talking about bleeding out over time. He means instant stopping power, like a instant shock to the system so they stop attacking asap.
10mm (and 44magnum and other powerful cartridges for that matter) can be made to penetrate whatever depth you desire, just use lighter bullets that expand.
The 45 ACP was designed as a dual use cartridge for war, as a replacement for the 45 Long Colt. The Thompson-LaGarde tests proved that it was the most effective FMJ cartridge of its time against humans and large animals (horses). It was not designed to penetrate wooden blocks, walls or body armor.
The .45 dissipated all it's energy into the target quicker. Exactly what and how it was designed to do. It hit harder, over penetration is wasted force unexpended in the target.
You make a good point. A 10mm is very powerful vs other choises. Matter of fact, if the 10mm passes completly through deer size game and in a woods it continues on, likely stops in a tree or in the ground. Inside a home, a pass through can result in a very bad and an unintended end result. IMO
As a matter of fact (not opinion), 10mm was created to be the superior self-defense caliber by most consistently penetrating deeply enough to hit vital organs and immediately stop bad guys, without overpenetrating. It is intended to bias towards the far end of the 12-18 inch penetration range recommended by the FBI. 12.5 inch by the .45 is barely passing. That's like getting a D on a test in school. The FBI also acknowledges no known actual overpenetration deaths or lawsuits by these calibers, so the fear of overpenetration from a defensive bullet up to 10mm is overblown. Now, .41 or .44 Magnum? Yeah, good luck keeping those within the penetration limits.
@@texasbeast239 Bullshit. The 10mm was created to supersede the .45 ACP by shooting faster & flatter, not to stop bad guys w/o overpenetrating, and it was around long before the F.B.I. post-Miami jello blasting tests.
My G20 with a light & laser is my "maybe a little more than the pocket pistol today" carry, my CTC lasered G21 is my HD gun, mainly cuz I eventually plan to suppress it.
@@faryldaryl3975 Collins, Cooper, Dornaus, Dixon never tried to get 10mm to penetrate like a hunting round. They tried to get it to hit targets and penetrate deeply on a consistent basis. And their mission was accomplished. Nobody said anything about the 10mm being invented by the FBI. The only bullshit here is your reading comprehension.
The AARP bullet penetration capabilities vary widely, of course, with the ammo selection which is one of it charms, in my opinion. Heavy cast bullets from someone like Buffalo Bore put its penetration levels right up there with 10mm. Cool test.
Nah, comparing 10mm vs Buffalo Bore .45 +P: the 10mm has 50% more muzzle energy and a smaller frontal area. A .45 +P load is 800J. A standard 10mm is 900-1300J. Even compared to the .45 +P the 10mm is closer to the .44 Magnum in ballistics 1000-1400J. (.41 Mag is actually REALLY close in bullet size, weight, speed, case volume, and muzzle energy) Also worth noting that you could be 9:00 paying upwards of $2 per round for those Buffalo Bore +P rounds, and every normal 10mm hits harder than that for $.40-$.60 per round. That only matters so much, but you have to shoot a few of those +Ps before you need them because they are SPICY compared to a normal .45 and it can be like shooting a whole new gun. I’m not saying it’s better, just different. .45 is better at stopping in a target causing maximum tissue damage. The 10mm is better at punching holes, whether that’s barricades or body armor. The greater energy just lends a bit more versatility to the 10mm allowing it to really shred some hollow points.
well I agree with you, actually. I only use the buffalo bore stuff for potential dangerous game encounters. I found the Lucky Gunner Labs data to be quite useful and interesting for comparing penetration potentials of different loads and for my uses, the ACP fits the bill. I like the 10mm but I don't own one yet. But I will. @@jkent9915
Any 10mm load is going to completely pass through wasting all it's energy even if it manages to expand. It's better suited for hunting. But the 45 is going from about 700 mph to 0 in about 1/10th of a second inside a body. You be the judge
You should check out the .450 SMC cartridge. It's a bit of a wildcat, but it's the closest you'll get to a modern 45 ACP cartridge. It can be used in anything rated for +P, since the brass itself is stronger, I believe it's a 308 cut down. It's throwing 45 ACP weight at near 10mm speeds.
@@DustinS. 45 super requires thing not all 45 pistols have, a fully supported chamber. Which is why I like 450 SMC so much. It only requires the pistol to be rated +P.
Hello, the .45 is NOT designed for penetration of a hardened object, it is designed for massive damage to soft targets... like you head, and chest. Furthermore, the .45 is designed to dump all its energy into the object and NOT penetrate completely through leaving a ton of energy behind.
Just a thought: controllability enters into their defensive capability equation. If a .45 is more controllable than a 10mm, then the all important follow-up shot issue comes into play. Also, the .45 on the first tests was a flat nose commercial vs. a military ball round. That would certainly make a difference in block penetration. Finally, it would be instructive to see if a +P .45 would really make a difference, or a .45 of 180, vs 230 grain weight - after all, energy goes up as the square of the velocity. Interesting video.
Ive got a 1911 in 45acp and ill say for a fact the 230gr hornady crutical duty +p atleast feel like theyre hauling the most ass (i know theyre not) but its got the most felt recoil compared to even the g9 defense 117gr ehps ive got in 45 which move at like 1500fps
Ft lbs is meaningless. You want to consider the momentum. Momentum and sectional density determine the ability of a bullet to penetrate. Momentum determines the recoil force. A 45 acp and 357 standard loadings have similar momentum, though the 357 has a much higher sectional density and much lower bullet weight. The 220 +p critical duty is hauling ass for a 45acp, and it's a heavy bullet at that. Unless a bullet is travelling multiple thousands of fps, don't worry about ft lbs of energy
@@bobjohnson1633 Well, not meaningless, but certainly the momentum of a bullet is grossly underrepresented in discussions about penetration in videos and posts. It's also the case that - particularly in handguns, with their normally short barrels - acceleration to a higher muzzle velocity requires higher pressure, bringing with it greater muzzle blast and powder-related recoil force. That energy-seeking path costs controllability as a result, whereas heavier bullets at lower velocity are tamer and more controllable.
I love that you used the heat gun so that we could see better. I think you are the only one I’ve seen do that. This was an interesting comparison. However, I think these cartridges fit different niches. The 40S&W is probably a better comparison against the 45ACP while the 10mm and 460Rowland are probably a better comparison for each other. Either way, the 45ACP wins at suppression.
@haloreachmadman555 Depends on the person. I find I am more accurate with a .45 vs say a 9mm. Moreover, a .45 doesn't have that snap a 9mm has (using Glocks) so getting on target is quicker as well.
Years ago I was looking at 10mm over 45acp but it was hard to find and many weapons don't use it. So I switched to 45acp. The idea was to create as much damage as possible with the biggest wound channel as possible. Penetration was not on my radar in my self defense pistol caliber. In fact you really don't want alot of penetration and collateral damage. This video proves the research I did. TONS of ammunition available plus reloads (I like making my own hot loads if I need some extra umph). Even in wood those channels are big.
Can you do with these pistol round tests with the +P underwood xtreme penetrators and the buffalo bore hard cast that are available from midwayusa? These rounds would represent what each cartridge is capable of when penetration is the priority vs say economy/feeding (round nose), target scoring (flat nose/wadcutter), or controlled expansion (hollow points).
That's what I was worried about from the get go he used versions of both rounds I wouldn't. Buffalo bore makes both 220grain 10mm+p and 255grain 45acp+p rather that test
I give it to the .45 in both the first and last tests. I never expected either to penetrate the block of wood. The block, to my eyes, definitely suffered more of the shock from impact, i.e. moved more, that came for the .45 round dumping its energy into the target. The same with the ballistic gel. The block impacted by the .45 round was sent further straight backwards than the one hit by the 10 mm.
Yeah I didn't even watch the whole video, because my thoughts on the first test were "Why do we want over-penetration? Of course a smaller diameter object drills through more easily... I don't think that equates to stopping power... So the 45 is going to put all its energy into the bad guy, while the 10mm saves some for whoever may be somewhere behind the bad guy...".
@@jonathanbaird8109 What do you mean? All the movies, old heads, and regurgitators of nonsense. Tell me "stopping power" solely based off caliber is a thing. And 50+yrs old ballistics data is just as relevant in the 21st century, when comparing different calibers and rounds (many of which that haven't even existed for 5-10yrs) of old and new ammunition. Cause ya know, bullet technology has never changed since smokeless powder in these Muppets eyes.
Thanks for posting this video. I think this more-or-less confirmed what I've heard about these cartridges. I'd pick the 10mm in bear country, but the 45acp might be a better choice for "2 legged problems," especially those less than 16 inches thick. Anyway, I was taught that I'm responsible for my bullet until it comes to rest, so overpenetration is a concern.
Always enjoy watching all of your test. I would like to see the 5.7x28 27 grain bullet vs 9mm 115 grain bullet and see what your input is based off of your vigorous testing. I've seen other videos where guys were shooting bulletproof glass and oxygen tanks to where the 9 mm did not penetrate but the 5.7 did with only the smaller grain bullets. It seems like the larger grain bullets in the 5.7 did not penetrate as well. Keep up all the amazing work and information that you provide to us. Thank you for all of your time, much appreciated
@@aaronpudlicki7418 Yes, I seen the grandthumb video and they were just shooting at a ballistics dummy and only using mainly the 40 grain for the 5.7 I just thought it would be cool to see the steel test and the sand trap banana ballistic style.
The 45 acp was designed to take the enemy off their feet. This is why the traditional bullet weight is 230 grain. To me the full 10mm is a great round to do a lot of damage,with a big wound channel. 45 auto is more available and cost less. + P 45 autos normally come with a 180 grain bullet, along with a nasty hollow point will have more power than the 10mm depending on brand you buy for 10 mm. Federal started manufacturing light 1 mm a few years after the shoot out in Miami. The officers were out gunned using 9mm The bank robbers had mini 14s a 9mm stopped short from hitting one of the robbers heart. Yet a few years later the office workers did not like the recoil,of the full 10mm,rather than let the officers in the office qualify with 9mm or 40s,and let guys in the field use full 10mm,they had federal load weak rounds for the FBI. Many swat teams use 45 auto,and for a while It was the side arm for the for the military when they ditched the 9 for awhile only to go back to it a few years ago. The 45 acp has proven . In combat for many years. It can hold up to 15 rounds in double stack,and 9 rounds ln single stack mags. The fat case can hold more powder,and could be made for heavier rounds at faster speeds. Once again you can find ammo much easier . .
I believe everyone knew the results on this one before it began. There're some caveats worth mentioning. When the 10mm went through, it meant some energy went through with it. Those are self-defense rounds, you want all the energy it packs on your target. Is it possible to know how much energy was _really_ dumped on the target, considering how much remained for the round to end up in Belize? I suppose you'd need a chrony in front of the gel, and one on the back to test that. In any case, both rounds are great. I like the fact that .45 has the chamber pressure of .22lr, maybe that's why I always found it easier to control. In any way, thanks for the vid! Please consider .357 Sig some day, I love that one 🙂 Have a great one!
@@777-p2t Before I begin thanking your comment, I'd like to apologize in advance for the windy conditions, and any possible disruptive noise, that could come from a friendly fellow that despite the barren range, he apparently decided to come boresight his Elk rifle mere meters away from us. And my speech impediment, despite that I keep getting comments saying that I seem to have none, to which I'll reply: you should definitely ask my wife on that regard. Now, something else worth clarifiying beforehand: This will be the short version of my appreciation and thank you message. For the long version, you can click on the description below. Without further a-do, let's begin: Thank you very much for even mentioning such a legend in your message. And we could go on with all the details and trust me - there *are* many out there to talk about, but I promised this to be the short version, thus with what we've have seen - you be the judge.
I’m a big 10 mm fan!! Most guys that I know that are big fans of the 45 acp, because the think that it’s more powerful than almost any other caliber. But it’s not! The 10mm has more stopping power out of the two. You definitely will have the stopping power with the 45 but I like the more powerful 10mm. 10mm for life!!!
Nice video, but it would have been nice to see you test some "good" ammo, like underwood or Buffalo bore since most 10mm on the market is basically .40 anyway. To put this into perspective, the 10mm I carry is over 700ft-lbs at the muzzle vs the 560 that the HST makes. And the hardcast rounds they have are incredible as well.
Yea it would be nice to see Federal American Eagle up their loads in their target 10mm to at least 650 ft lbs. I refuse to buy over priced 40 s&w spec 10mm that barely breaks the 400 ft lb range. Sig makes a decent load too. They actually have more pop than the Underwood 180 grain 10mm that I normally use.
My assumption is that a lot of factory 10mm is under-loaded to prevent issues with early 10mm 1911s that had a tendency to beat themselves up. This made sense when there were few 10mm options. Now there are a plenty of properly-designed 10mm pistols to choose from that can handle full-power 10mm. I just wish manufacturers were honest about labeling low-recoil 10mm ammo as such.
I like both the .45 ACP and the 10MM. I am not so sure about the ballistic gel test. The .45 dumps all of it's energy into the gel. If you are looking for stopping power that is a consideration. Again, great video testing two great rounds.
I think the opposite is true: With 10mm you're getting all the overpenetration of a rifle with none of the ballistics advantages. With 45 you're getting less overpenetration with very good ballistics for a pistol caliber.
@@scottfree6479 With the extra 300-400 fps I get with carbine over my 10mm 1911, expansion would not be a problem. The 10mm, 357 Mag, 44 Mag all have enough powder capacity to make good use of the extra barrel length in a carbine. I see the same kind of velocity increase between my 44 Mag pistols and my 44 Mag lever gun.
@@timclaus8313 Expansion is never the problem; overpenetration is. If you actually want to do serious damage then use a rifle pushing over 2700 fps at the muzzle. 300blk and 45acp are ideal for home defense because they won't overpenetrate and can be suppressed well. A 10mm might hit, what, 1500 fps? 1700 at best with a super hot load? That still isn't even close to what a 556 will do going at 3000+ 10mm really doesn't have any purpose. It's too powerful for a pistol and too weak for a rifle.
@@JesusChrist_IsTruth-LoveForALL Hi Point, Bear Creek Arsenal and Kriss all make 10mm carbines. Mine is a Bear Creek, AR pattern, so it can use all the external AR 15 goodies, including the collapsable stocks, and uses standard Glock 20/29 magazines.
Grab an HK USP .45 and a bunch of 45 Super rounds (USPs can fire 45 super from the factory) factory 185 grain 45 Super ammo runs 1300 FPS and hits around 700 ft. (694) Pounds of energy. It’s a virtually identical to hot 180 grain 10mm ammo, except for a bigger hole.
Excellent! I recently acquired a Glock 10mm, because I had numerous people insist it was a better carry weapon than my .45 ACP. Unfortunately, I haven't yet had the opportunity to fire it, but I do look forward to some side by side comparisons for myself.
My overall question is, wouldn’t stopping power be more important than penetration? Not a 45 shooter myself but always impressed by the results of the “flying ashtray”.
Depends on the target. If you live up north during the winter, projectiles are shown to have irregular results because of layers of clothing. sometimes the hollowpoint gets clogged and doesnt expand. Sometimes the slower subsonic speed of a 45 might be affected by layers of clothing. Body mass and Fat can affect penetration as well.
For self-defense against typical 2-legged predators, yes. He also used a bare gel block rather than putting a layer of clothing in front. Clothing tends to inhibit expansion to some degree which tends to result in deeper penetration. My guess is that both bullets would have expanded slightly less and gone deeper. Which means in all probability the .45 would be closer to the sweet spot of 15" while the 10mm would have gone past 18". I believe where the 10mm shines(with the proper load) is for defense against larger animals.
I think so, and less penetration is better in most urban environments, unless you're shooting through hard barriers for some reason. I haven't heard of a .45 being stopped by winter clothing and fat, and would be curious to see any examples of that actually occurring.
"Stopping power" is a catch all term for whatever stops the threat. Penetration is the most important factor for stopping power. You want the damage to reach vital areas and failing that blood loss is the next surest way to stop a threat. However, sever over penetration is simply a waste of energy. The more energy dumped into the threat creates larger wound channels and a more dramatic impact which can also "convince" the threat to stop. You can achieve this ideal balance between energy dump and penetration with any caliber by selecting the right ammo. But what alot of people don't seem to get is the more powerful a caliber is the more potential it has to deliver stopping power each shot...pretty simple concept.
@@syrin1237 The not-so-simple part comes in when one compares a 10mm that passes through due to overpenetration with a 45 ACP that dumps all its energy into the target. I am unconvinced that a 10mm has more stopping power than a 45. The 10mm has a smaller, lighter bullet, and mainly seems intended for maximum penetration for reasons I can only guess at.
I'd be interested in seeing barrier blindness added to the testing. How much do different bullets deflect from their original path after going through thin barriers.
It's loaded to function to the 12-18" penetration. It's also loaded with the 40s&w bullets and driven to velocities that keep it from exploding in the target. Cheap, effective, and they can charge you more.
Could you run the test again with Underwood Xtreme penetrators? I bet one oe both of these cartridges would penetrate to the 3/4" plywood on some of the tests.
what I see is 10 mm = over penetration. .45 wins it for me. Plus look at the jelly jump back a few inches when the .45 hits. It moves the jelly back further than the 10 mm does
Great video two thumbs up👍👍. Awesome penetration set up. I would love to see a set up testing 12 gauge shotgun penetration in slug,000,00 regular, and 00 flight control. Would be great to add some red brick to your Masonary penetration lineup.
AYYYYYY you got the bullet out sand! Thanks buddy 👍 you put my curious mind at ease. They were not as deformed as I thought they would be. :(. Keep up the good work
10mm has about the same powder, can be loaded with 230gr projectiles even tho 180 is more common. So the same input energy and mass, over a smaller area. That means more pressure. More pressure for the same mass means more velocity and output. The 10mm was designed to be an optimized 45, and it succeeds
@@Mirage5892 yep basically not to mention thicker brass as well which is why 45 super came around also followed by 460 rowland but 10mm continues to be the most powerful readily available production pistol round there is
Years ago a guy shot at me in my house. As I was trying to get to a gun my girlfriend fired my 4" S&W M29 with Federal 240 grain HP ammo over his head and into the bottom of a soffit where it was solid wood underneath the plaster. It went in about 5". The cavity in those HP bullets is much smaller than what they make today. I kept that bullet as a souvenir of how important our Second Amendment is.
Thanks for the tests, but I was a bit surprised that your performance measure was based on penetration. I also noted you seemed to shoot the .45acp better than the 10mm. I'm a retired LEO and my experience on the streets of a major city PD where shootings were a regular occurrence, was that I responded to many crime scenes where the victims were shot with .38's, 9mm's, etc. and who were still breathing when we loaded them in the ambulance. I never responded to a scene where the victim was shot with a .45acp where they were still breathing. I knew they were shot with a .45 because the trip to the ME the next day verified it. Admittedly, we didn't come across 10mm's back then, but that .45acp has been working since 1911. Just to add - I own and love my Colt Delta Elite; just for a different reason.
These comparisons & tests are greatly entertaining! I think intended cartridge designs & purposes remain valid for both. The test sled is way cool! Clever design!
If you wanted to have a better comparison, you could’ve used double tap, hard cast in the 45 ACP it penetrated 36 inches of gel it may have about performed that 10 mm.😊
Even though it likley wouldn't have changed the results, you really should have used 185 grain 45acp +p. I would like to see how 460 rowland would do on your test, especially with an extreme penetrator bullet.
Have you times your splits with 10mm vs 9mm? For me the added energy of the 10mm isn't worth how much longer it takes to regain my sight picture unless I'm expecting threats larger than humans.
Part of my reason for 45 was one of my specs was to have a round that shoots soft enough to hold onto while barely alive. Basically I view my handgun as, everything went really wrong because I'm not using my rifle anymore.
I owned both a Colt Delta, and Kimber .45.... I love the form factor....but since I am not, nor have I ever been in a war...I prefer the .45...this guy kinda demonstrated why....just look how often his 45 was almost dead center, vs the 10mm. 10mm is a hot round and not nearly as gentle to shoot as the .45. Personally if I was going to CCL, I would get one of the new 8 shot 357 mag revolvers, if I wanted to defend the house..I would just stick with a 12 gauge. To me my .45 is just a range toy from back when I was in a shooting league.
Great idea with the 300 Win Mag. but a monolithic non hollow point. Lead full metal jacket or not just isn't gonna get through a lot of sand. The monolithic might. They just don't seem to travel as straight after impact though.
@@kentuckywindage222 well that's the beauty of the Accelerator is a 30 cal sabot with a .223 projectile. pop out the round and replace it with M995 or m855A1. and still get that sweet sweet 4000fps
@@hiphopguy0 Seen those in 30-06 but not in 300 Win. Mag. The 30-06 ones were made by Remington that I tried years ago. Lot of speed but accuracy was terrible. I think those were purported to something around 4000. Of course a 220 Swift will do it with just the bullet. With handloads for sure. Manufacturer rounds I doubt. Problem with 220 Swift is it just eats barrels. Burns throats like crazy but anything with much overbore will.
@@kentuckywindage222 There are vids on YT where people are handloading the accelerator rounds into WM. My understanding for the accuracy problem is barrel twist is mean for a round 3-4 times heavier, and the plastic sabot not always engaging the rifling. I only suggest because 8" of sand is a tall order for anything so far. I still think it would fail though.
Just make sure your 10mm isn’t underpowered. I’ve heard and seen a lot about some 10mm loads basically being .40 S&W
It's true that 10mm has been watered down but it's still much more powerful than 40s&w.
They did that because a full powered 10mm was producing too much recoil for FBI testing. Garand Thumb has a video with the comparison between the two.
@@philipmitchener28that video was hilarious
@@PerceptionVsReality333 At least half the 10mm on the market is loaded to 40SW pressures.
most 10mm loads sold are exact duplicates of the 40.@@PerceptionVsReality333
Were both of your parents movie promo readers?
It’s no surprise the 10 penetrates barriers deeper/better. The 45 was never intended to defeat barriers, just people.
And the 10 mm does both better
10 goes right through the first person and into a second... not better@@halogod0298
@halogod0298 Then you better know what's behind that barrier. Every bullet has alawyer attached.
Ammo dependent
well said
Love the .10 but this test validated my choice of .45 for home defense. Over penetration is of paramount consideration for myself. Thanks for this! Subbed!
Meh, I use a simple 9mm with hollow point... It's doubtful that it will go through a perp, and even if it does by chance, it's unlikely to go through the walls of my residence as the walls are concrete and chicken wire instead of drywall (because the building was built in 1912)
What is .10? .10 as in 10 caliber?
.10 isn’t 10mm. Shows you’re very uneducated. Of course you’d go with a 45 most uneducated people do. You don’t understand or know what 10mm is. You can go from 135 or even lower in some ammo manufactures. Light bullet with 700+ ftlbs at the muzzle .40******* yes it’s not .10 it’s .40 cal bullet going 1600 fps out of a full-size handgun barrel expands rapidly and doesn’t penetrate that much. It’s simply research and doing your own testing. 10mm beats 45 all the way around because of its versatility.
@@abones900it’s like a toothpick but sonic speed, .10/000 😂
@@MrEli768 You'd be AMAZED at the penetration of a 9mm with a plugged cavity. Honestly, a plugged 9mm or 9mm fmj can penetrate more than a 5.56mm.
One thing i can definitely say for certain...I certainly wouldn't want to take a round of either!
Exactly! I always get a kick out of u toobers that compare .45 to anything else and turn it into a d*ck swinging contest. Doesn't matter what caliber you have, even a .22 long rifle, you certainly wouldn't want to be on the receiving end.
I just got into 10mm and I really like it. Beyond the amazing performance it fits my hand much better than my old .45 that loved for so long. Thinking I may need to look into compact 10mm's too now...
I like and own them both. The 10mm is a hot and powerful round but I still love the 45APC or 45AARP. Nice test
*ACP Auto Colt Pistol, not Armored Personnel Carrier. 😉
Lol I wouldn't throw those terms around on YT.
AARP has been sending me junk mail for years, they never mentioned that they had a .45 plan or version. 😂
That's how I feel about it. I've got a Springfield Armory XDM 10 mm and a 45. My first 45 was a Hi-Point. I think it weighed about 25 lbs LOL! I kid you not, I found a paddle holster for it but you could not wear it on your side. You had to get the belt so tight it would kill you or it just pulled your pants right down. It was a great shooting gun though. I need to go shoot the 10. I just bought it round before big bad hurricane Debbie came rolling in. I bought a bunch of Underwood Ammo for it. That'll get the job done!
@@mikebarron5805 I got one engraved!
I absolutely love the 45 ACP... but I almost spit out my drink when you said "45 AARP". 🤣🤣🤣
Yeah, and AARP is anti gun.
Boomer funds and their "muh two world wars" 45acp
Yes, the Automatic for Arthritic Retired Persons 😂
Hey now. 😂😂👴📜✒️
😆
Considering .45acp is basically subsonic it was never intended for penetration. Its up side was its size and weight against unarmored humans. So as such being bigger but slower 45 will never outperform anything that's going faster however it will stand pound for pound in tissue damage
Except it doesn't, as shown by the ballistics gel test and 100s of other examples of terminal ballistics data comparing the two.
That being said, I wouldn't want to be shot by either, and in 99% of defense cases they'll both get the job done.
Luv me .45
Luv me 10mm
Simple as
Honestly, both are excellent choices for a defensive handgun choice. On the ballistics gel, though I would def take the 45. Coming to a complete stop quickly means maximum energy transfer. The 10mm exited the block meaning that it didn't transfer all its energy. But to be fair and not upset anyone, I have both!
Picked up a Tanfoglio Witness 10mm for my backpacking gun about 15 years ago. Snagged Hi-Point's 10mm carbine for Xmas a bit over a year ago. Both are very fun out at the range, and I'm glad 10mm prices are roughly on parity with .45acp locally.
I picked up a 10mm for the woods after reading that most Alaskan Rangers carry 10mm. I'm good if I never have an aggressive bear encounter, but apart from carrying a heavy .44 mag or 454 Casul, a 10mm with 200 grn ball ammo has shown to be effective against smaller (black) bears.
If you're going to carry a carbine you might as well just carry something like a Kel-Tec 12 gauge with slugs I did a bunch of research and the most common Grizzly defense gun in Alaska is a 12 gauge with slugs
True that a 12 gauge is a goto for very close encounters. But the Alaskan Fish and Wildlife and maybe even Troopers carry 10mm to give them a little more advantage against bigger encounters like bears.
I'm pretty sure I woudn't want to get hit by either. Thanks for the review
AMEN!
I KNOW I wouldn't.🇺🇸😎
45 was adopted to stop an opponent, over the 38 used at the time. The only time I considered penitration is with bears. Any other I prefer the 45acp. Great video 😊
And that was over 50 years ago using FMJ on cattle that had no idea they were about to get shot.
Get some meth head or pissed off bear coming at you, unless you separate the brain from the cord, it’s not stopping regardless of magic calibers.
.45 acp was designed for use on people and horse (horse cavalry was thing when it came out)
Original 45 Colt loads were designed to stop cavalry horses. 255gr doing 1050 fps. Later they were reduced in power due to difficulty of soldiers handling the powerful load.
.45acp was designed to be similar to the later 45 Colt loads, not original.
I love his "targets", 6x6 wood, sand. IMO, those are backstops. Let's try gel.
@@jakerazmataz852 It's entertainment. His whole shpeel is more irony than anything: "Don't let ballistics drive you bananas!" Thing is, his ballistic testing is more recreational and doesn't generate any real useful information, unless you're hunting wood blocks, steel plates, or concrete bricks. Fun, interesting, but not particularly useful for defense or meat harvesting.
I been watching YT since... well.. forever. This guy wins "most baritone voice" award. How low can he really go??
Bass
@@cedarhatt-vx8kf Nah, he's definitely more baritone than bass, although having a baritone speaking voice.... I bet he sings a beautiful bass tone.
What is that heavy gas, sodium hexafluoride? Opposite of helium voice, breath it and you go super low.
Great video, thanks.
I used to carry .45 back in the early 80s because I was experienced in 1911 from my Army Ranger days. Then switched Departments and dad said no on automatics. Around 1989 new chief said okay for autos but just 9mm. Then around 1999 got the Okay for .45 Acp, again. So bought a Glock, actually a full size and a compact.
After retirement and a move to upper Michigan plus seeing a mama black bear with 2 cubs while walking my dog, I bought a 10mm Springfield Armory. It is not a good feeling to be within 25 yards of mama bear with only a Ruger LC9 should she try and attack. I love my 10mm
Sir, with respect.....have you considered a .45-70 wheel gun? 🤣
@@gotindrachenhart I would love a .45-70 wheel gun, but I had 2 rifles in that caliber and they both had "substantial recoil". It is tough to think about that amount of recoil in my hands.
I have shot .44 , .357, .41 mags so I can handle a good amount of recoil, but I don't want to shoot anything that hurts my hands that badly anymore.
@@scottroder5516 ha! Fair enough man! Closest I've come to that is .444 Marlin and that was pretty punishing. I was just trying to think of a commonly available big bore one could reasonably pack around that would be effective vs bear etc :D
Taking down a bear with a pistol? lol I've seen the shot with a 308 and run like hell!
@@MinnesotaBeekeeper a .45-70 pistol
Man, that federal HST is absolutely amazing self defense ammunition! Glad they donated it to you. Pretty pricey but well worth it if your life depends on it.
Pricey but you just need enough for a mag or two and then practice with it however often you deem necessary to see how it shoots through your gun. Definitely not plinking ammo. The home defense 12 gauge stuff i get is $2.50 a shell. Needless to say I've only shot enough to see how it behaves in my gun and the rest is guarded like gold bullion lol
567 ft lbs is weak for 10mm. Underwood loads 10mm to around 700 ft lbs. off the shelf 10mm is basically 40 S&W.
@@d-unit-outdoorsYup you really don't realize it till you actually look at the ballistics and compare. No more store bought defense ammo for me although I do trust Federal HST and Sig Vcrown in terms of reliability, the ballistics are just not as favorable.
@@bijk1911 Yeah for sure. If that’s all I had I’d trust it for sure! HST’s are amazing, that’s what I use for 9mm defense loads. But why not get full power out of it if you’re packing that extra millimeter. 😉
@@d-unit-outdoorsThe Liberty copper monolithics are rated at 780ft/lbs of energy, and the expansion is insane as well, just remember that they are designed for two legged targets and not dangerous game in the back country...
I have had a 10mm since back when they weren’t cool. Always loved that cartridge
😂@Nick__Gurr_
You telling me Sonny Crockett wasn't cool?
You are the OG
It's my favorite pistol cartridge ❤
I have a best mm and a good old .45 both. One is for bears, one is for peop-I mean, defense.
.45 was actually designated as the smallest caliber necessary to dispatch bovine in the Thompson LaGarde tests in 1904. Tests which were conducted because during the Moro Rebellion, we were fighting against doped up Phillipinos who didn't care about getting shot with a .38 caliber. Enter the Thompson LaGarde tests where .45acp was proven as our next pistol caliber by dispatching cattle. John Moses Browning then designed the 1911 around the .45acp cartridge. So technically, you are right, but technically, you are wrong. That particular caliber was proven to kill cattle within 10 seconds of a lung shot. It'll kill a bear.. it'll also kill a doped up phillipino who dgaf about being shot with a 9mil
@@lamegame420 the OP is not wrong, and it is rather bold of you to say so. He declared his use for the calibers.
Well, people can be bears, but could bears be people? 🤔
1 of them is replaceable by the other. 45 is garbage trash piece of shit hyped up to u on false premise of invalid testing on cows.
@@lamegame420and that methodology is a joke
10mm rules the FBI knows it but caved to the ladies!
10mm Auto, simply the most versatile handgun cartridge out there! You want good self-defense ammo against criminals: Civil Defense 60 grain, 2,400 FPS.
You something that can take down a Grizzly Bear: Underwood 200 grain hardcast, 1,250 FPS! And 220 grain hard cast, 1,200 FPS!
You want something in the middle? Underwood 150 grain Xtreme Penetrater, 1425 FPS. Or even just standard 180 grain FMJ!
10mm can almost do it all! Absolutely love this cartridge!
Got to be careful carrying 10mm. Some states don’t like it and deemed it unnecessary in court of laq
10mm = best millimeter
Dumping all 230 grains of energy in 4.5" inches of wood is the reason it was used for trench warfare in WW2. Marines and Army couldn't afford to have the enemy take a handful of shots after being hit a few yards away. A 230gr 45acp was a meat stopper. The Colt 1911 by browning design and the Thompson .45 machine gun was massive in urban combat. Its design was perfect for 50 yards or less and made big holes after being hit very very hard. With high adrenaline some solders didn't know they were even hit with the 9mm , not with the .45 it was a bone breaker with shock and awe.
Complete and utter bullshit. The whole reason 30 carbine was developed was because .45 loads back then were anemic when compared to today, and were shit at penetration.
45acp worshippers are something special
@@FirstnameLastname-do1px Uh man, you gotta remember the common pistol rounds of the day; it's not exactly bullshit. 7.65 longue, .32 acp, .380 acp, 9mm luger; it is superior to all of those in the factors he mentioned provided they are all using FMJ rounds. Today it might be more of a joke as FMJ; back then it was the strongest commonly available pistol caliber; and .30 carbine is an intermediate caliber so it's not really in the running, thats like comparing apples to fish sticks. Also I think he meant World War 1, and in urban combat within 50 yards; weapons using this caliber off handgun round(key word, handgun) Had an advantage over the other commonly used, handgun ammunition supplied; *Sub- machine guns* So it's really an issue of context. The .45 acp also existed for 37 years longer than the .30 carbine, which only achieved widespread distribution toward the latter half of ww2; and then mostly in the hands of 2nd line troops. Also during the korean war and vietnam, the .30 carbine was heavily lamented by those who wished they had stronger, longer reaching cartridges like 7.62x51mm nato; they would even chose 5.56 over that if given the opportunity during vietnam which was the last common use of .30 carbine. Fudds today say .30 carbine was bad, 5.56 was bad, and 7.62 nato was even bad in comparison to .30-06. Before the .45 acp entered service I'm sure german fudds thought anything that wasn't at least 9mm luger for pistol caliber was also bad but they got one upped on that in less than 4 years..
So really man, you just come across as a fudd; and nobody likes fudds..
Don't compare burgers to burritos...
Yeah trying to tell us that a automatic 45 Thompson wouldn’t kill people…
Truth
Okay, 10mm is an all-time favorite for me. It did out penetrate the .45 ACP and make a bigger wound channel. I'd say it won except for you saying you were taking into account the FBI sweet spot. There the .45 wins and in a case of self-defense over-penetration matters. But I never doubted the 10mm would come out on top.
With the average size of folks in the US these days, the 10mm did not over penetrate.
Had to reread that jibber jabber. Over penetration doesn't matter as much as numbers do. 10mm always beats .45 ACP.
I was going to say the same thing. By the parameters set before the test, the .45 won.
Sorry, but 10mm beats 45, even when sticking strictly to the FBI standard. There are many loads to choose from. Also, CLEAR gel is NOT used for the FBI standard AND the block is only 16" long, which does not allow for the maximum 18" penetration for the FBI standard. Don't be biased.
@@justinkase1360Wait, who's biased?
I'm keeping my 50 year old Vietnam era Colt 1911A1, 45 ACP pistol, it has never let me down.
The last US Army was made in 1942. Just sayin.
@@ghinckley68nope , it last until 1985 and some still use today .
@@ghinckley68 He never said it was army issue. Just that it was Viet Nam era.
@@BlackSpade72 No the last 1911a1 was bought in 1942 in vietnam he would not got have kept the sidearm. Everything belongs to the base you do not get to take it home.
the only way he still has was he claimed it was lost and snuck it back into the country.
in 1985 most all remaining 1911a1s were transferred to the marines. If you in basic training qualified with 1911 you could keep it for the reminder of you career. But it stated in the armory. after 2001 or so when you retired you could by the weapon. mine cost 22USD. It was made by Reminting Rand in 1942.
and what kinda cosplay uniform is that. If your going to dress up and play soldier at least ry to get the uniform correct.
The 10mm and or 9mm are both meant to penetrate, this is why they are smaller so they can go faster and have less air resenstance. The 45 acp on the other hand is built for stopping power which is why it's a lot bigger but moves slower therefore transfering more energy.
10mm is way more powerful than 45
You are right. However the 10mm has more stopping power than a 45 anyday. Check out civil liberty defense 10mm ammunition. I carry them in my edc. They shoot at 2400 fps and 800+ muzzle energy 🫡
@@Trxpout muzzle velocity or muzzle energy are given too much weight by folks. Lehigh not so extreme penetrator 140gr 10mm is 1500fps and 700ft lbs. Underwood 220gr hard cast only 1200fps but has the same 700fl lbs of energy at the muzzle. The gimmick Lehigh "penetrator" round goes ~25 inches in gel. The slower but heavier 220gr goes 62.5" (three times the penetration) and out the back of the last gel block. Mass is key to penetration. Thats why the 45 doesnt need velocity. On soft targets a good .45 HP (like HST) is far superior to 10mm. And i'm not a fanboy. I have both. The .45 for soft skinned critters and the 10mm for woods carry. The .45 HST reliably opens to ~.90" where the 10mm is in the .65" range. That is a MUCH bigger hole/area of damage.
@@morbo5061 oh no for sure 45 has a far bigger wound. But 10mm has a harder hit to the nerve system. Ive ran multiple .45 ammo, 10mm ammo, from 230 grains to 60 grain civil liberty, speed kills and the 10mm has a far superior fps speed. 2400 fps is the speed of sound , like ive i said those are also rife velocity coming out of a pistol. The 10 may not leave a bigger exit wound , but if your talking damage to the tissue, nerves, shock system the 10 is and will always be superior. Check out the 10mm civil liberty gel test, the 10 leaves more multiple nasty permanent channels. .45 is in no way weak, but the only thing it has over 10mm is the size of the wound, test show and prove time and time again 10mm is superior.
@Trxpout how much does that teeny little disc penetrate? Looked like about 12" in bare gel? Not enough mass to make use of any of that energy because it loses it too quickly. Velocity means absolutely zero until about 2000fps. No permanent wounding away from the wound channel happens until about that velocity. Problem is that little 60gr bullet can't retain it and make it useful. I'm a 52yr old engineer and have spent many hours over the years studying it and my determination is those are snake oil and no way I'd carry those. But you do what you think is going to work for you.
As long as you buy the proper 10mm rounds and not the rounds that are glorified .40 cal, the 10mm is the way to go. The 10mm became my favorite caliber about 4 or 5 years ago and once I got over the sticker shock, it became my go-to round. I still use firearms that are chambered in 9mm for plinking, especially owning several 9 mm pistols over the years and the ammo being cheaper, but 10mm is awesome. Can't believe I just found your channel. Great humor. Liked and subbed. 👍
till it over penetrates and hits someone behind your targets. Its already been said that the 10mm full power is not a self defense round for people.
@@ManOfChaiTea
Not everyone lives in a city environment and there are plenty of hollow point rounds that don't over penetrate. The whole "over penetration" thing has gotten way out of control. Some people, (not saying you) just parrot what they hear other people saying.
People have made it sound like every time a 10mm is fired it over penetrates and hits someone. Not true, and the correct ammo will take care of that concern. If people are going to be in an area where that is a possibility, then they need to have the correct ammunition.
The real reason that the FBI and some other agencies got rid of the 10mm is because of the recoil. They had too many people failing to qualify at the range. The over penetration thing became a crutch for lots of agencies and shooters that just don't shoot the 10mm as well as the 9mm.
I’m looking to get a g29 gen 5 what would you consider the proper ammo
@@camelotnights1818
What do you want to use it for? Are you going to be in bear country or are you just plinking at the range, etc.?
@notsosilentmajority1 range and I’d like to EDC it
Some pretty slow 10mm there. I would like to see this test done with ammo that matches the old Norma loads
Agree with this. Checked out the box info on my 10mm ammo and it is about 10% slower. The 45 is pretty close.
Underwood or Buffalo bore
@@MrErichonda30 Or DoubleTap or Grizzly or Steinel.
Double tap has been shown in multiple other testers with chronographs to blatantly over rate, the speed of their bullets and those the muscle energy. In my own comparisons up here in Alaska I find that double tap does not have the speed and that’s the kinetic energy of Underwood Buffalo boar, or the other rounds you’ve mentioned. That being said, double tap is still vastly superior to the Federal round which was tested! I would place double tap between the high-end boutique rounds like Underwood and Buffalo boar and your larger companies like federal, who refuse to load the 10 mm to the old more respects because the lawyers get involved and so large companies like federal will not load the 10 mm to its original Specifications and true potential. You can always trust lawyers to ruin anything and everything in life! @@exothermal.sprocket
The +p 45aarp i bought flies around 2150, i would be shocked if the perfect 10's top end is under 2500
Been preaching 10mm as a defensive cartridge for a while now. Probably my favorite pistol cartridge.
I carry mine from time to time. Underwood 135 and 155g. That 135 is going almost 1700fps.
The kick though, but yes it is powerful.
I've wanted one for awhile but mainly for hiking/ fishing in brown bear country.
Thats what I carry, G20 with Underwood xtreme penetrator. @@Leightr
@@JMark-zk5pj best hope you aren't in a crowded area. You will hit other people with 10mm.
So if your priorities are stopping power + minimizing overpenetration, it seems from the first test that the 45 ACP is the better choice.
Just one problem with your theory, hoss. He tested this with FMJ rounds.
And to add, I bet I can find more available off the shelf 45acp ammo, and much cheaper than 10mm. I carry federal PD in 230grain in my 45s. And nobody is going to use FMJ for personal defense unless you live in a backward stated like NJ.
Umm the 10mm has more energy and has a larger permanent wound cavity. Not sure how that equates less stopping power
@@kfelix2934 I have handguns with both, its pretty much the same, aluminum blazer is even cheaper actually, brass blazer is like exactly the same as federal .45 or blazer .45
@@MasterTaters which on the .45 will still not over pen.
The 45ACP is a man stopper, the 10MM is a bear stopper!(With the correct ammo)
10mm is really overkill for Man, PERIOD.
100%, underwood 200 great Hardcast is on par with the 41 mag, except you get 15 shots, not 6
@@billyray332no such thing as overkill in a self defense incident
@@bigjon576 your crazy I See..
@@billyray332 how?
1,100 feet per second 10mm? You’re using underpowered 10mm rounds bro. The whole point of carrying a 10mm is for the 1600 to 1800 feet per second Underwood rounds. Put that against the 900 feet per second Plus P 45 ACP and you’ll see the real difference.
Underwood Ammo has great penetration and Stopping power.
What’s the best ammo for self defense in .45acp?
are you shooting 125 grain bullets? that seems excessive. Buffalo Bore doesn't go above 1300fps
Don't forget hard cast rounds as well
@@carlyonmaster 230gr Federal HST ...which is what this dude shot the gel with.
Over penetration is a concern in a combat (self defence) shoothong, in my opinion. I went to the 45 ACP just for that reason. I do like seeing comparisons between firearm rounds👍👍. Thanks Bob an OLD retired LEO in Nevada
A cop giving advice, the last person to listen too.
@@Rubeless there's always someone who can't help going low...
@@Rubelessthey shoot a lot more people than you ever will
@@Rubeless Yeah i lifetime of experience is worth nothing lol /s.
@@Rubeless I didn't see, nor intend, my "comment" to be advice. Sorry if you took it that way.
The .45 ACP works in gun fights because it doesn't usually over penetrate and quickly sheds its energy.
I'm a trauma nurse. I've seen more wounds with a entrance and exit that caused more bleeding. the myth of a bullet not over penatrating is taken out of context
muh two world wars huh ?
Could you please explain in more detail? I'm Intrigued by your medical aspect . You say the myth about a bullet not over penetrating is taken out of context.
@@MrCora1212 Not really out of context. Majority of GSW are smaller calibers like the 9mm. From a medical standpoint, having an entrance and exit wound increases the rate that someone loses blood and increases the chance of the wound being fatal. From a defense standpoint, an exit wound is a bad thing. If you shot an assailant, and the round, after exiting the target, strikes anybody or anything of value afterwards, you're liable. The property owner can sue you, or an individual that was shot can sue and press criminal charges. So from a self defense standpoint, you want your round to create large temporary and permanent wound channels in shutdown organs and cause loss of fluids, but not go through the subject and strike another person or valuable object. The 45 ACP moves slower (around the 800-850fps) is less likely to over penetrate a target compared to a 10mm traveling around 1200-1300fps. Gun fight, you want to stop the threat and not get sued, .45 is more likely to do that than a 10 or 9mm round.
@@MrCora1212 He isnt talking about bleeding out over time. He means instant stopping power, like a instant shock to the system so they stop attacking asap.
These tests prove exactly what I've been saying all along:
.45 acp for concealed carry and home defense folks
10mm for outdoorsmen
10mm (and 44magnum and other powerful cartridges for that matter) can be made to penetrate whatever depth you desire, just use lighter bullets that expand.
Got both! No complaints!
Agree.
The 45 ACP was designed as a dual use cartridge for war, as a replacement for the 45 Long Colt. The Thompson-LaGarde tests proved that it was the most effective FMJ cartridge of its time against humans and large animals (horses). It was not designed to penetrate wooden blocks, walls or body armor.
The .45 dissipated all it's energy into the target quicker. Exactly what and how it was designed to do. It hit harder, over penetration is wasted force unexpended in the target.
2 holes
hey, nice video man!! in my opinion 10 is for hunting, 45 for personal defense
You make a good point. A 10mm is very powerful vs other choises. Matter of fact, if the 10mm passes completly through deer size game and in a woods it continues on, likely stops in a tree or in the ground. Inside a home, a pass through can result in a very bad and an unintended end result. IMO
As a matter of fact (not opinion), 10mm was created to be the superior self-defense caliber by most consistently penetrating deeply enough to hit vital organs and immediately stop bad guys, without overpenetrating. It is intended to bias towards the far end of the 12-18 inch penetration range recommended by the FBI.
12.5 inch by the .45 is barely passing. That's like getting a D on a test in school.
The FBI also acknowledges no known actual overpenetration deaths or lawsuits by these calibers, so the fear of overpenetration from a defensive bullet up to 10mm is overblown.
Now, .41 or .44 Magnum? Yeah, good luck keeping those within the penetration limits.
@@texasbeast239 Bullshit. The 10mm was created to supersede the .45 ACP by shooting faster & flatter, not to stop bad guys w/o overpenetrating, and it was around long before the F.B.I. post-Miami jello blasting tests.
My G20 with a light & laser is my "maybe a little more than the pocket pistol today" carry, my CTC lasered G21 is my HD gun, mainly cuz I eventually plan to suppress it.
@@faryldaryl3975 Collins, Cooper, Dornaus, Dixon never tried to get 10mm to penetrate like a hunting round. They tried to get it to hit targets and penetrate deeply on a consistent basis. And their mission was accomplished.
Nobody said anything about the 10mm being invented by the FBI. The only bullshit here is your reading comprehension.
The AARP bullet penetration capabilities vary widely, of course, with the ammo selection which is one of it charms, in my opinion. Heavy cast bullets from someone like Buffalo Bore put its penetration levels right up there with 10mm. Cool test.
Nah, comparing 10mm vs Buffalo Bore .45 +P: the 10mm has 50% more muzzle energy and a smaller frontal area.
A .45 +P load is 800J. A standard 10mm is 900-1300J. Even compared to the .45 +P the 10mm is closer to the .44 Magnum in ballistics 1000-1400J. (.41 Mag is actually REALLY close in bullet size, weight, speed, case volume, and muzzle energy)
Also worth noting that you could be 9:00 paying upwards of $2 per round for those Buffalo Bore +P rounds, and every normal 10mm hits harder than that for $.40-$.60 per round. That only matters so much, but you have to shoot a few of those +Ps before you need them because they are SPICY compared to a normal .45 and it can be like shooting a whole new gun.
I’m not saying it’s better, just different. .45 is better at stopping in a target causing maximum tissue damage. The 10mm is better at punching holes, whether that’s barricades or body armor. The greater energy just lends a bit more versatility to the 10mm allowing it to really shred some hollow points.
well I agree with you, actually. I only use the buffalo bore stuff for potential dangerous game encounters. I found the Lucky Gunner Labs data to be quite useful and interesting for comparing penetration potentials of different loads and for my uses, the ACP fits the bill. I like the 10mm but I don't own one yet. But I will. @@jkent9915
Any 10mm load is going to completely pass through wasting all it's energy even if it manages to expand. It's better suited for hunting. But the 45 is going from about 700 mph to 0 in about 1/10th of a second inside a body. You be the judge
You should check out the .450 SMC cartridge. It's a bit of a wildcat, but it's the closest you'll get to a modern 45 ACP cartridge. It can be used in anything rated for +P, since the brass itself is stronger, I believe it's a 308 cut down.
It's throwing 45 ACP weight at near 10mm speeds.
.45 +p or if you're super froggy, .45 +p+ (aka .45 super).
@@DustinS. 45 super requires thing not all 45 pistols have, a fully supported chamber. Which is why I like 450 SMC so much. It only requires the pistol to be rated +P.
Or just get an LAR Grizzly in 45 win mag
@@argonzeit a 1911 just needs a different barrel. A USP or HK45 are good out of the box
Or a conversion kit for .460 Rowland@@Grooove_e
@0:15 LOL. "Weight savings is a close second to safety" had me laughing!
Hello, the .45 is NOT designed for penetration of a hardened object, it is designed for massive damage to soft targets... like you head, and chest. Furthermore, the .45 is designed to dump all its energy into the object and NOT penetrate completely through leaving a ton of energy behind.
Excellent comment.
Lol, 10mm does do massive damage to soft targets. th-cam.com/video/if3e7ApfuOk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=iF0Qjnzg3UwpP-ED here’s Garand Thumb’s ballistic dummy test.
Just a thought: controllability enters into their defensive capability equation. If a .45 is more controllable than a 10mm, then the all important follow-up shot issue comes into play. Also, the .45 on the first tests was a flat nose commercial vs. a military ball round. That would certainly make a difference in block penetration. Finally, it would be instructive to see if a +P .45 would really make a difference, or a .45 of 180, vs 230 grain weight - after all, energy goes up as the square of the velocity. Interesting video.
Ive got a 1911 in 45acp and ill say for a fact the 230gr hornady crutical duty +p atleast feel like theyre hauling the most ass (i know theyre not) but its got the most felt recoil compared to even the g9 defense 117gr ehps ive got in 45 which move at like 1500fps
Ft lbs is meaningless. You want to consider the momentum. Momentum and sectional density determine the ability of a bullet to penetrate. Momentum determines the recoil force. A 45 acp and 357 standard loadings have similar momentum, though the 357 has a much higher sectional density and much lower bullet weight.
The 220 +p critical duty is hauling ass for a 45acp, and it's a heavy bullet at that. Unless a bullet is travelling multiple thousands of fps, don't worry about ft lbs of energy
@@bobjohnson1633 Well, not meaningless, but certainly the momentum of a bullet is grossly underrepresented in discussions about penetration in videos and posts. It's also the case that - particularly in handguns, with their normally short barrels - acceleration to a higher muzzle velocity requires higher pressure, bringing with it greater muzzle blast and powder-related recoil force. That energy-seeking path costs controllability as a result, whereas heavier bullets at lower velocity are tamer and more controllable.
I love that you used the heat gun so that we could see better. I think you are the only one I’ve seen do that.
This was an interesting comparison. However, I think these cartridges fit different niches. The 40S&W is probably a better comparison against the 45ACP while the 10mm and 460Rowland are probably a better comparison for each other. Either way, the 45ACP wins at suppression.
He was more accurate every time with the good old .45 APC.
Funny you mention that I find I am more accurate with a .45 vs 9mm or 10mm
@@_oly_241 They say 9mm is more accurate than .45 ACP but that is rapid fire, only,
Caliber has nothing to do with accuracy
@haloreachmadman555 Depends on the person. I find I am more accurate with a .45 vs say a 9mm. Moreover, a .45 doesn't have that snap a 9mm has (using Glocks) so getting on target is quicker as well.
@@_oly_241 .45 has less snap than a 9mm? What are you smoking
Years ago I was looking at 10mm over 45acp but it was hard to find and many weapons don't use it. So I switched to 45acp. The idea was to create as much damage as possible with the biggest wound channel as possible. Penetration was not on my radar in my self defense pistol caliber. In fact you really don't want alot of penetration and collateral damage. This video proves the research I did. TONS of ammunition available plus reloads (I like making my own hot loads if I need some extra umph). Even in wood those channels are big.
Can you do with these pistol round tests with the +P underwood xtreme penetrators and the buffalo bore hard cast that are available from midwayusa? These rounds would represent what each cartridge is capable of when penetration is the priority vs say economy/feeding (round nose), target scoring (flat nose/wadcutter), or controlled expansion (hollow points).
I agree, I'd like to see him redo the test with underwood and fort Scott ammo
@ryewaldman you can send him those rounds to test champ.
@@makevelicustoms 5 IQ comment.
Zero comparison. 10mm is superior in every way vs .45. Unless it’s being launched from a slingshot!
That's what I was worried about from the get go he used versions of both rounds I wouldn't. Buffalo bore makes both 220grain 10mm+p and 255grain 45acp+p rather that test
I don't want a 10mm. It'll run away with my 10mm sockets.
Lol. I always thought I was being clever when I asked my coworker if he's seen the ".40 caliber" socket wrench.
And take all your shiny scrap for melting, aye
Groan.
I give it to the .45 in both the first and last tests.
I never expected either to penetrate the block of wood. The block, to my eyes, definitely suffered more of the shock from impact, i.e. moved more, that came for the .45 round dumping its energy into the target.
The same with the ballistic gel. The block impacted by the .45 round was sent further straight backwards than the one hit by the 10 mm.
Yeah I didn't even watch the whole video, because my thoughts on the first test were "Why do we want over-penetration? Of course a smaller diameter object drills through more easily... I don't think that equates to stopping power... So the 45 is going to put all its energy into the bad guy, while the 10mm saves some for whoever may be somewhere behind the bad guy...".
💯 correct!!
@@mr.knowitall6440 "stopping power" is a fudd term that isn't recognized by any true student of terminal ballistics these days.
@@jonathanbaird8109 What do you mean? All the movies, old heads, and regurgitators of nonsense. Tell me "stopping power" solely based off caliber is a thing. And 50+yrs old ballistics data is just as relevant in the 21st century, when comparing different calibers and rounds (many of which that haven't even existed for 5-10yrs) of old and new ammunition. Cause ya know, bullet technology has never changed since smokeless powder in these Muppets eyes.
Thanks for posting this video. I think this more-or-less confirmed what I've heard about these cartridges. I'd pick the 10mm in bear country, but the 45acp might be a better choice for "2 legged problems," especially those less than 16 inches thick. Anyway, I was taught that I'm responsible for my bullet until it comes to rest, so overpenetration is a concern.
Glock 20/29: Three guns in One; 10mm, .40 cal & .357SIG, all by simply swapping out the barrel.
Glock 21 as well
Always enjoy watching all of your test. I would like to see the 5.7x28 27 grain bullet vs 9mm 115 grain bullet and see what your input is based off of your vigorous testing. I've seen other videos where guys were shooting bulletproof glass and oxygen tanks to where the 9 mm did not penetrate but the 5.7 did with only the smaller grain bullets. It seems like the larger grain bullets in the 5.7 did not penetrate as well. Keep up all the amazing work and information that you provide to us. Thank you for all of your time, much appreciated
Garandthumb did this recently
@@aaronpudlicki7418 Yes, I seen the grandthumb video and they were just shooting at a ballistics dummy and only using mainly the 40 grain for the 5.7 I just thought it would be cool to see the steel test and the sand trap banana ballistic style.
I really enjoy the concise, yet thorough testing. Thanks and keep up the great videos!
I really liked the pistol cartridge comparison!
You said .45 AARP and I felt that.. I guess being a boomer is hard to deny now.
The 45 acp was designed to take the enemy off their feet.
This is why the traditional bullet weight is 230 grain.
To me the full 10mm is a great round to do a lot of damage,with a big wound channel.
45 auto is more available and cost less.
+ P 45 autos normally come with a 180 grain bullet, along with a nasty hollow point will have more power than the 10mm depending on brand you buy for 10 mm.
Federal started manufacturing light 1 mm a few years after the shoot out in Miami.
The officers were out gunned using 9mm
The bank robbers had mini 14s a 9mm stopped short from hitting one of the robbers heart.
Yet a few years later the office workers did not like the recoil,of the full 10mm,rather than let the officers in the office qualify with 9mm or 40s,and let guys in the field use full 10mm,they had federal load weak rounds for the FBI.
Many swat teams use 45 auto,and for a while
It was the side arm for the for the military when they ditched the 9 for awhile only to go back to it a few years ago.
The 45 acp has proven
. In combat for many years.
It can hold up to 15 rounds in double stack,and 9 rounds ln single stack mags.
The fat case can hold more powder,and could be made for heavier rounds at faster speeds.
Once again you can find ammo much easier
.
.
The traditional weight was 200 grains, not 230. 230 was a home defense round. You want to surpass the 10mm, just lower the grains on the bullet.
@@TechieTard 45 ACP can never surpass 10mm. It's pressure limit is too low.
I believe everyone knew the results on this one before it began. There're some caveats worth mentioning. When the 10mm went through, it meant some energy went through with it. Those are self-defense rounds, you want all the energy it packs on your target. Is it possible to know how much energy was _really_ dumped on the target, considering how much remained for the round to end up in Belize? I suppose you'd need a chrony in front of the gel, and one on the back to test that. In any case, both rounds are great. I like the fact that .45 has the chamber pressure of .22lr, maybe that's why I always found it easier to control. In any way, thanks for the vid! Please consider .357 Sig some day, I love that one 🙂 Have a great one!
Thanks Paul!
@@777-p2t Before I begin thanking your comment, I'd like to apologize in advance for the windy conditions, and any possible disruptive noise, that could come from a friendly fellow that despite the barren range, he apparently decided to come boresight his Elk rifle mere meters away from us. And my speech impediment, despite that I keep getting comments saying that I seem to have none, to which I'll reply: you should definitely ask my wife on that regard.
Now, something else worth clarifiying beforehand: This will be the short version of my appreciation and thank you message. For the long version, you can click on the description below.
Without further a-do, let's begin: Thank you very much for even mentioning such a legend in your message.
And we could go on with all the details and trust me - there *are* many out there to talk about, but I promised this to be the short version, thus with what we've have seen - you be the judge.
Great video brother! I would be interested in seeing how both these cartridges do when fired from a PCC.
Either way, they both do their jobs. Since I can't buy a 10 mm, I'll stick to my 45.😅
Why cant you buy a 10mm? Just curious.
@@hickboyjusthick698same
The wife going to scratch your eyes out if you do?
The 45auto is good enough for self defense anyway it has been for 100+ years.
@@hickboyjusthick698Probably the same reason I can't buy a .45?
Out of 💵
45 fan boy: "But, but, the .45 has won wars. Sniffle, sniffle. It only takes one shot from a .45, we don't need high cap mags."
I’m a big 10 mm fan!! Most guys that I know that are big fans of the 45 acp, because the think that it’s more powerful than almost any other caliber. But it’s not! The 10mm has more stopping power out of the two. You definitely will have the stopping power with the 45 but I like the more powerful 10mm. 10mm for life!!!
Nice video, but it would have been nice to see you test some "good" ammo, like underwood or Buffalo bore since most 10mm on the market is basically .40 anyway. To put this into perspective, the 10mm I carry is over 700ft-lbs at the muzzle vs the 560 that the HST makes. And the hardcast rounds they have are incredible as well.
Yea it would be nice to see Federal American Eagle up their loads in their target 10mm to at least 650 ft lbs. I refuse to buy over priced 40 s&w spec 10mm that barely breaks the 400 ft lb range. Sig makes a decent load too. They actually have more pop than the Underwood 180 grain 10mm that I normally use.
Underwood extreme penetrators are absolutely amazing, look up 10mm and bullet proof glass, crazy stuff.
I wonder how well the 10MM does on a grizzly bears head at 10-15 yds.
My assumption is that a lot of factory 10mm is under-loaded to prevent issues with early 10mm 1911s that had a tendency to beat themselves up. This made sense when there were few 10mm options. Now there are a plenty of properly-designed 10mm pistols to choose from that can handle full-power 10mm. I just wish manufacturers were honest about labeling low-recoil 10mm ammo as such.
I like both the .45 ACP and the 10MM. I am not so sure about the ballistic gel test. The .45 dumps all of it's energy into the gel. If you are looking for stopping power that is a consideration. Again, great video testing two great rounds.
The same things you found here make a 10mm a great choice for a pistol caliber carbine.
I think the opposite is true: With 10mm you're getting all the overpenetration of a rifle with none of the ballistics advantages. With 45 you're getting less overpenetration with very good ballistics for a pistol caliber.
@@scottfree6479 With the extra 300-400 fps I get with carbine over my 10mm 1911, expansion would not be a problem. The 10mm, 357 Mag, 44 Mag all have enough powder capacity to make good use of the extra barrel length in a carbine. I see the same kind of velocity increase between my 44 Mag pistols and my 44 Mag lever gun.
@@timclaus8313do they have 10mm carbines?
@@timclaus8313 Expansion is never the problem; overpenetration is. If you actually want to do serious damage then use a rifle pushing over 2700 fps at the muzzle.
300blk and 45acp are ideal for home defense because they won't overpenetrate and can be suppressed well. A 10mm might hit, what, 1500 fps? 1700 at best with a super hot load? That still isn't even close to what a 556 will do going at 3000+
10mm really doesn't have any purpose. It's too powerful for a pistol and too weak for a rifle.
@@JesusChrist_IsTruth-LoveForALL Hi Point, Bear Creek Arsenal and Kriss all make 10mm carbines. Mine is a Bear Creek, AR pattern, so it can use all the external AR 15 goodies, including the collapsable stocks, and uses standard Glock 20/29 magazines.
Grab an HK USP .45 and a bunch of 45 Super rounds (USPs can fire 45 super from the factory) factory 185 grain 45 Super ammo runs 1300 FPS and hits around 700 ft. (694) Pounds of energy. It’s a virtually identical to hot 180 grain 10mm ammo, except for a bigger hole.
Excellent! I recently acquired a Glock 10mm, because I had numerous people insist it was a better carry weapon than my .45 ACP. Unfortunately, I haven't yet had the opportunity to fire it, but I do look forward to some side by side comparisons for myself.
I have been asking for this vedio a long time... Thanks... awesome result.....😊
My overall question is, wouldn’t stopping power be more important than penetration? Not a 45 shooter myself but always impressed by the results of the “flying ashtray”.
Depends on the target. If you live up north during the winter, projectiles are shown to have irregular results because of layers of clothing. sometimes the hollowpoint gets clogged and doesnt expand. Sometimes the slower subsonic speed of a 45 might be affected by layers of clothing. Body mass and Fat can affect penetration as well.
For self-defense against typical 2-legged predators, yes. He also used a bare gel block rather than putting a layer of clothing in front. Clothing tends to inhibit expansion to some degree which tends to result in deeper penetration. My guess is that both bullets would have expanded slightly less and gone deeper. Which means in all probability the .45 would be closer to the sweet spot of 15" while the 10mm would have gone past 18". I believe where the 10mm shines(with the proper load) is for defense against larger animals.
I think so, and less penetration is better in most urban environments, unless you're shooting through hard barriers for some reason.
I haven't heard of a .45 being stopped by winter clothing and fat, and would be curious to see any examples of that actually occurring.
"Stopping power" is a catch all term for whatever stops the threat. Penetration is the most important factor for stopping power. You want the damage to reach vital areas and failing that blood loss is the next surest way to stop a threat. However, sever over penetration is simply a waste of energy. The more energy dumped into the threat creates larger wound channels and a more dramatic impact which can also "convince" the threat to stop. You can achieve this ideal balance between energy dump and penetration with any caliber by selecting the right ammo. But what alot of people don't seem to get is the more powerful a caliber is the more potential it has to deliver stopping power each shot...pretty simple concept.
@@syrin1237 The not-so-simple part comes in when one compares a 10mm that passes through due to overpenetration with a 45 ACP that dumps all its energy into the target.
I am unconvinced that a 10mm has more stopping power than a 45. The 10mm has a smaller, lighter bullet, and mainly seems intended for maximum penetration for reasons I can only guess at.
I'd be interested in seeing barrier blindness added to the testing. How much do different bullets deflect from their original path after going through thin barriers.
You look like Timmy Turner with the voice of ving rhames 😂😂
I came into the 10mm world about 10 years ago. I own 3 of them now and love this round.
I don’t know if you mentioned this in the video but the 10mm is severely under loaded in most factory loadings.
It's loaded to function to the 12-18" penetration. It's also loaded with the 40s&w bullets and driven to velocities that keep it from exploding in the target.
Cheap, effective, and they can charge you more.
M@@bobjohnson1633
Could you run the test again with Underwood Xtreme penetrators? I bet one oe both of these cartridges would penetrate to the 3/4" plywood on some of the tests.
Stopping power is the ability of the round to not over penetrate. The 45 would be a better self-defense round based on this comparison.
10 is for bears
I love midwayusa. Glad they’re supporting you.
I loved the comment, "45 AARP."
As an Olde Fuqke, I would be amused to see how a .357 Mag would do.
What I learned from these tests, the 10mm overpenetrates compared to the venerable .45ACP.
two holes is better than one.
@@samj1185 till you hit someone past your target and go to prison, get sued, lose your house . Good call.
@@ManOfChaiTea sarcasm, not always an admirable character trait but if that's all ya got...
what I see is 10 mm = over penetration. .45 wins it for me. Plus look at the jelly jump back a few inches when the .45 hits. It moves the jelly back further than the 10 mm does
Great video two thumbs up👍👍. Awesome penetration set up. I would love to see a set up testing 12 gauge shotgun penetration in slug,000,00 regular, and 00 flight control. Would be great to add some red brick to your Masonary penetration lineup.
AYYYYYY you got the bullet out sand! Thanks buddy 👍 you put my curious mind at ease. They were not as deformed as I thought they would be. :(. Keep up the good work
Great video and thank you for shooting it! I chose the 10mm for hiking use
I use some +P 185 gr. hard cast led rounds in my 45. I wonder how a comparable 10mm round would stack up against that?
Against true 10mm no contest 10mm wins
10mm has about the same powder, can be loaded with 230gr projectiles even tho 180 is more common. So the same input energy and mass, over a smaller area. That means more pressure. More pressure for the same mass means more velocity and output. The 10mm was designed to be an optimized 45, and it succeeds
@@Mirage5892 yep basically not to mention thicker brass as well which is why 45 super came around also followed by 460 rowland but 10mm continues to be the most powerful readily available production pistol round there is
Years ago a guy shot at me in my house. As I was trying to get to a gun my girlfriend fired my 4" S&W M29 with Federal 240 grain HP ammo over his head and into the bottom of a soffit where it was solid wood underneath the plaster. It went in about 5". The cavity in those HP bullets is much smaller than what they make today. I kept that bullet as a souvenir of how important our Second Amendment is.
Thanks for the tests, but I was a bit surprised that your performance measure was based on penetration. I also noted you seemed to shoot the .45acp better than the 10mm. I'm a retired LEO and my experience on the streets of a major city PD where shootings were a regular occurrence, was that I responded to many crime scenes where the victims were shot with .38's, 9mm's, etc. and who were still breathing when we loaded them in the ambulance. I never responded to a scene where the victim was shot with a .45acp where they were still breathing. I knew they were shot with a .45 because the trip to the ME the next day verified it. Admittedly, we didn't come across 10mm's back then, but that .45acp has been working since 1911. Just to add - I own and love my Colt Delta Elite; just for a different reason.
These comparisons & tests are greatly entertaining! I think intended cartridge designs & purposes remain valid for both. The test sled is way cool! Clever design!
Dude sounds like he was born for Radio. Love your videos.
If you wanted to have a better comparison, you could’ve used double tap, hard cast in the 45 ACP it penetrated 36 inches of gel it may have about performed that 10 mm.😊
Apples to oranges, bruh. How you gonna call off the shelf 10mm vs the spiciest of the spicy 45 a comparison.
@@SpikeJonesTheCr0oked I would assume they meant using Double Tap 10mm as well, since Double Tap are known for making and selling good hot 10mm loads.
Even though it likley wouldn't have changed the results, you really should have used 185 grain 45acp +p. I would like to see how 460 rowland would do on your test, especially with an extreme penetrator bullet.
I am not a caliber snob as I own quite a few. That being said my 10mm lives on my battle belt.
I can agree with that, plus it pairs well with my Bear Creek 10mm carbine, lol...
Have you times your splits with 10mm vs 9mm? For me the added energy of the 10mm isn't worth how much longer it takes to regain my sight picture unless I'm expecting threats larger than humans.
@@1retiredknight A 10mm in a 1911 is an easy shooting round. Very quick on followup shots.
@@timclaus8313 I am saving for the B&T 10mm, because I like my B&T APC Pro 9mm.
@@timclaus8313 You have to be using some pretty light-loaded 10mm. Full pressure 10mm loads have been known to break 1911 frames.
Quickly becoming one of my favorite gun channels
Part of my reason for 45 was one of my specs was to have a round that shoots soft enough to hold onto while barely alive. Basically I view my handgun as, everything went really wrong because I'm not using my rifle anymore.
Great video. Both cartridges are great. But 9mm, 10mm, 45ACP… they are all gonna stop the bad guy.
Those 10mm loads are weak range loads (yes I know one is HST). You should try some full power 10mm that is 650+ ft/lbs
Agreed, Buffalo and Underwood pack a punch
45 AARP, LOL
Boomers are gonna be big mad.
Jeff Cooper FTW. Never leave home without some underwood, the perfect 10/10 combo.
10mm vs 45acp is like a Karate fighter vs a boxer. one is fast and nimble, and the other is a heavy hitter.
But 10mm didn’t win 2 World wars
🍌😎🍌
Neither did .45 ACP
@@Enjoyer.762 single handedly read your scholars
Glock G20sf is 15rds of 10mm in a fast, accurate & reliable platform!
but it's a glock...
Seems like getting accuracy out of a 10mm is not too easy!
I owned both a Colt Delta, and Kimber .45.... I love the form factor....but since I am not, nor have I ever been in a war...I prefer the .45...this guy kinda demonstrated why....just look how often his 45 was almost dead center, vs the 10mm. 10mm is a hot round and not nearly as gentle to shoot as the .45. Personally if I was going to CCL, I would get one of the new 8 shot 357 mag revolvers, if I wanted to defend the house..I would just stick with a 12 gauge. To me my .45 is just a range toy from back when I was in a shooting league.
Awesome video thank you!
I don't think anything will pen the sand. That being said I wanted to see a 300winmag loaded with accelerator rounds.
Great idea with the 300 Win Mag. but a monolithic non hollow point. Lead full metal jacket or not just isn't gonna get through a lot of sand. The monolithic might. They just don't seem to travel as straight after impact though.
@@kentuckywindage222 well that's the beauty of the Accelerator is a 30 cal sabot with a .223 projectile. pop out the round and replace it with M995 or m855A1. and still get that sweet sweet 4000fps
@@hiphopguy0
Seen those in 30-06 but not in 300 Win. Mag. The 30-06 ones were made by Remington that I tried years ago. Lot of speed but accuracy was terrible. I think those were purported to something around 4000. Of course a 220 Swift will do it with just the bullet. With handloads for sure. Manufacturer rounds I doubt. Problem with 220 Swift is it just eats barrels. Burns throats like crazy but anything with much overbore will.
@@kentuckywindage222 There are vids on YT where people are handloading the accelerator rounds into WM. My understanding for the accuracy problem is barrel twist is mean for a round 3-4 times heavier, and the plastic sabot not always engaging the rifling. I only suggest because 8" of sand is a tall order for anything so far. I still think it would fail though.