As a person who can consistanly throw around 550 feet and has coached people in improving form, more specificly distance, I can certainly tell you that making sure that the thrower understands this principal is THE single most important thing to improving distance. you can do everything else correct, but if you mess this up you will have a hard time reaching anything over 450 feet. I believe the way you explain it should make sense to a lot of people. Great information! Great video! Keep ut the good work.
This has been the single greatest improvement to my game. I just started playing this year and have been struggling to break 250'. I watched this video and went out and played, only focusing on what you teach in this video. I hit 300' for the first time today with FAR less effort than before. I can't thank you enough.
This tip has probably been one of the single most impactful tips for distance for me. Was getting 50-75 more ft consistently. Thanks for the video! Now just have to practice and work in the new form
I'm always so fascinated by the art and science of the disc golf form. Excited to see if I can implement this into my game for a more consistent release and utilizing more lower body power. 💪
Better late than never. Been trying to figure out the exact issue you're explaning. For me the epiphany moment was to watch Väinö Mäkelä. He puts the shoulder out and then dips it. What happens, at least for me, that elbow goes up. It also solves, again, at least for me, rounding, cause it prevents upper arm up to pinch into chest. Have been doing this only a week and, as always, form change, which makes it a bit hard to handle. I've been launching early and low, yet nose down has been perfect. But every time I get it right, well, it makes me smile. Thank you for taking us out from the maze😅
Definitely one of the main things holding me back for years that i just started focusing on. I was going to buy a throw-form as it seems to address this exact issue, but they were already sold out. Now i'm working on it the old fashioned way as you've highlighted. great video.
Great analysis and advice. I notice a lot during my reach back, I think I extend my arm backwards earlier than my shoulders turn, so my elbow definitely moves inside my torso sometimes. So I think this is a great cue. I should try to coil more, and extend the elbow later. I kinda like how Calvin just doesn't extend his elbow, like it's just an unnecessary movement for him.
Yes! Great way of putting it. I (exaggeratedly) almost think of tucking the disc into my armpit to keep the structural integrity of my shoulder. That way the extension of the arm is really coming as a result of my body's momentum, rather than from my arm muscles themselves. My drive ends up looking a lot like Ricky's drive...in form more than distance or accuracy, at least!
Ezra Aderhold has a great video related to this. He talks about how the shoulder holds a 90 degree angle. If you look at the angle between his chest and upper arm, he has about a 110 degree angle during his reach back, but the rest of the throw is 90 until the follow through.
Yeah there are a lot of good resources on what to do, but for whatever reason I could never figure out how to actually accomplish it until fairly recently
@@ArmoryDiscGolf breakthroughs are always great, but sometimes hard to maintain. I find that one week everything will start to click and the next week it's all out the window.
@weeschwee bro I couldn't agree more. I remember practicing in a field and finally getting that loud snap consistently on release. But I noticed it was causing pain in my shoulder for some reason. Took a week or two off and completely lost it.
Instant subscribe. I'll see later if this helps, but the crossing your arms part makes a lot of sense. I might even try holding my arm up with the off arm for a while as other suggest. I've seen countless videos about keeping your arm at 90deg, but your explanation of the whip of the lower part is less talked about and seems like a great cue. Thank you!
You're welcome and thank you 👊 I still have never actually thrown a disc while bracing my arm... I guess theoretically you should be able to keep your "brace hand" there without actually needing to use it if you stay wide the whole time
@@ArmoryDiscGolf I tried a few throws holding my arm. Worked pretty good! I combined this with dgspindoctors cook the spaghetti drill to keep my arm springy. I was throwing as far and less nose up than my usual stand stills and i didn't even incorporate any weight transfer yet. Thanks so much for posting this!
Honestly given how often I see beginners just fold their throwing arm back across their body (usually because they're trying to look forward while reaching back), I wonder if it would be effective to have have them actually try throwing the disc with their opposite arm braced with that hand pressing against their bicep as you did with the crossed arm cue. A few test throws at home, suggests this should work. A lot of folks haven't figured out what to do with their off arm anyway, so why not put it to use for a while. Note also there's a new training aid called Throform that enforces this angle. It straps onto the upper torso runs around behind the back and holds your throwing arm's bicep enforcing that angle and torso to upper arm structure you're talking about.
Funny enough, that's actually how I really discovered this in the first place. Coaching a guy that folds his arm and rounds real bad, showed him the brace as a demo, then realized it was actually pretty helpful for me too haha
Yes, you are onto something with this. I have actually done this exact thing throwing (gently) into a net while retraining myself not to be overly 'loose like a noodle.' It is also a good cue to keep the elbow up and away from the body, a good reminder that the shoulders should actively coil together, and also helps one refrain from reaching too far back on the backswing (or as the video puts it at 4:10, keep the elbow 'outside of the torso.' The equivalent mental cue I developed for this was to let my elbow go no further back than my lead hip). From 1:00 to 1:40, this video describes with embarrassing precision what I went through trying to develop a backhand and being overly literal about keeping the arm '100% loose.' Eventually I figured I must be misunderstanding something and decided just to watch footage of good players' arm mechanics. Eventually I came to understand that keeping the whole arm '100% loose' and flinging it around with the body is hugely counterproductive. The elbow needs to be out and up away from the body, and this requires substantial rigidity in the shoulder and upper arm. It is the forearm that should be loose. Now I see several coaches online discussing this thing exactly the way I worked it out for myself, and it feels like I was a year or so early to the party. I am certain this was already taught and taught properly, I just didn't know where to look or how to hear it. Oh well. Live and learn.
@@overfiend75 Ya, I just spent the afternoon teaching two of my friends how to throw (one of them for the very first time), and I had em use this feel cue with some reasonable success. Even had em make a few throws using the opposite arm on their bicep to enforce the angle. The challenge for one of them though is keeping that upper arm structure and firm grip on the disc, while still letting the forearm be loose. They're getting there. The other feel cue I've had some success with, I got from another video. It's this. "throw" your off shoulder toward the target to initiate the coil. This has the side effect of taking the emphasis away from the idea of "reaching back" which helps keep the torso more upright, and not to lean/tilt their weight onto the back foot.
I can say that what is said here is exactly right! It is when I managed to get my “reach back” to only be me twisting my torso+hips and extending my arm from my elbow (and not moving my shoulder joint as is said in this video), this has made my throws much much better. The only thing I don’t agree with is regarding Niklas Antilla’s form, sure the shoulder angle is good, but his use of the off arm etc. does not have the type of timing required for a 550+ feet throw.
Thanks 👊 Yeah Niklas has talked about how he doesn't have a very "big arm". He's doing a few funky things (his brace is also kind of soft), but he does a good consistent whip. I'd take his form in a heartbeat overall
I’ve never really understood the power pocket until you explained it in this video. Very well detailed, thanks ✊🏽 Slingshot engaged….😂 Talladega nights 😬
Thanks for the insight and sharing. I think that counts as an ah ha moment for me. Will have to implement this with my “Texas Two-step” in my field training.
Nice vid, I'm gonna get some of my buddies to watch it. In essence, don't let your elbow drop. When I have students who drop their elbows I get them to draw an arrow on their upper arm, sort of on the outside, pointing towards their target (elbow.) Making sure they see that arrow before release gets them in the pocket, keeps their elbow in the right place and their arm doesn't fly out early.
@@ArmoryDiscGolf Yes, I forgot to mention how much it helps keeping your head in the right place through the throw. I have a scar on my arm that I still use as a visual cue.
They also say you want to knock down a door. This messed things up for me since i attacked with my shoulder. I started thinking i wanted to knock down the door at head hight with my elbow first. This worked a lot better.
The "knock down the door" thing led me to do the same thing. I've had to rework a lot of well intentioned advice over the years haha. Different things click for different people, I suppose
Haven't played in a while and went out today and noticed some of my throws were extremely late releases on hyzer...but they felt like maybe 50-60% power but went my 100% power distance. Might've flirted with good form day 1.
I recently got my average drive up to about 475 (and can get over 500) and it’s pretty much all because I started focusing on reaching out, and having the disc on a slight anhyzer in the reach back.
@@ArmoryDiscGolf it seems to help get the nose down. I’ve heard different things about that (such as only hold it on the angle you’ll throw it) but also heard people recommend it.
I think I get it, I do struggle with this among other things. But I'm still a little confused on the height of the reach back, some players are definitely extending their arm fully or at least it appears so. So I shouldn't extend my arm fully and keep a bit of a 90 degree in it?
I'm not sure what you mean by "height of the reach back" The 90° that I'm referring to is between your chest and upper arm, that should remain throughout the reach back, regardless of how much you hinge at the elbow. Is that clarifying at all?
haha I highly recommend NOT starting at full speed when implementing new form, fwiw. I found that I started by shanking shots right because I was used to compensating for a collapsed pocket, but after doing this for a few weeks I'm getting much smoother distance and hitting lines more consistently 👍
Can you really keep the elbow to the wrist “loose” if you’re tightly gripping the disc? When I watch a lot of pros throw I can literally see the disc indented or bent even from their grip. Just wondering how to get both happening at the same time when such a grip tenses your wrist/forearm/elbow
Great question. Like I said, it's an active motion from that position and you don't 'actually' want that "floppy" motion like I demonstrated. But if you drag the disc in a line across your chest and continue forward into the "deep pocket" as far as you can, you'll notice at some point your elbow reaches full extension and the disc has to pivot out and around the elbow ("whipping" around that pivot, as demonstrated). SO- technically your lower arm isn't "loose", but I find it's helpful to think of it that way instead of trying to actively spin the disc forward and around that pivot. Lmk if that makes sense
I don't know what your skill level is, but you don't need a super tight grip unless you're actually at that top level of distance where you need all the help you can get to stop the disc from pulling out early. Depending on where you are, a tight grip can hinder you more than help you. But if you're breaking 450, yea, you really need to hold on to that sucker.
@@ArmoryDiscGolf I went out to the field to practice this, but muscle memory just got the best of me! I did however have 2-3 throws where it felt very different, and i think i hit the power pocket in ways i never did before. The trials continue tomorrow, i`ll let you know how it works out! As usual, a very informative and interesting video! Really appreciate the content!!
Hey I think you're partially correct but won't transfer to a lot of people. Just because you hit the power pocket doesn't mean you get the whip. You're leaving out the biggest part in this and it's to throw the arm. The shoulders rotate initially but then stop acting as the base of the whip and not the top of the arm. Watch over throws 72- 82 mph throw video. You didn't correctly demonstrate that you need to stop the rotation of the shoulders
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As a person who can consistanly throw around 550 feet and has coached people in improving form, more specificly distance, I can certainly tell you that making sure that the thrower understands this principal is THE single most important thing to improving distance. you can do everything else correct, but if you mess this up you will have a hard time reaching anything over 450 feet. I believe the way you explain it should make sense to a lot of people. Great information! Great video! Keep ut the good work.
Appreciate it 👊
This has been the single greatest improvement to my game. I just started playing this year and have been struggling to break 250'. I watched this video and went out and played, only focusing on what you teach in this video. I hit 300' for the first time today with FAR less effort than before. I can't thank you enough.
Man I love to hear it! Glad it's been helping 💪
This tip has probably been one of the single most impactful tips for distance for me. Was getting 50-75 more ft consistently. Thanks for the video! Now just have to practice and work in the new form
Love to hear it, that's huge
I'm always so fascinated by the art and science of the disc golf form. Excited to see if I can implement this into my game for a more consistent release and utilizing more lower body power. 💪
It's crazy to me that there's always something (often something big) to work on, regardless of how long we've been trying to fix our individual forms
Better late than never. Been trying to figure out the exact issue you're explaning. For me the epiphany moment was to watch Väinö Mäkelä. He puts the shoulder out and then dips it. What happens, at least for me, that elbow goes up. It also solves, again, at least for me, rounding, cause it prevents upper arm up to pinch into chest. Have been doing this only a week and, as always, form change, which makes it a bit hard to handle. I've been launching early and low, yet nose down has been perfect. But every time I get it right, well, it makes me smile. Thank you for taking us out from the maze😅
Definitely one of the main things holding me back for years that i just started focusing on. I was going to buy a throw-form as it seems to address this exact issue, but they were already sold out. Now i'm working on it the old fashioned way as you've highlighted. great video.
Really great info, hopefully this helps my weird reach back problems!
If you fix much more with your throw you're going to be touching 5 bills 👀
@@ArmoryDiscGolf that’s the hope
Great analysis and advice. I notice a lot during my reach back, I think I extend my arm backwards earlier than my shoulders turn, so my elbow definitely moves inside my torso sometimes. So I think this is a great cue. I should try to coil more, and extend the elbow later. I kinda like how Calvin just doesn't extend his elbow, like it's just an unnecessary movement for him.
It reminds me of Seppo Paju as well. Looks so simple and clean
great visual and tips!! Thank you!!
Yes! Great way of putting it. I (exaggeratedly) almost think of tucking the disc into my armpit to keep the structural integrity of my shoulder. That way the extension of the arm is really coming as a result of my body's momentum, rather than from my arm muscles themselves. My drive ends up looking a lot like Ricky's drive...in form more than distance or accuracy, at least!
form that looks like Ricky isn't a bad place to be 💪
Ezra Aderhold has a great video related to this. He talks about how the shoulder holds a 90 degree angle. If you look at the angle between his chest and upper arm, he has about a 110 degree angle during his reach back, but the rest of the throw is 90 until the follow through.
Yeah there are a lot of good resources on what to do, but for whatever reason I could never figure out how to actually accomplish it until fairly recently
@@ArmoryDiscGolf breakthroughs are always great, but sometimes hard to maintain. I find that one week everything will start to click and the next week it's all out the window.
@weeschwee bro I couldn't agree more. I remember practicing in a field and finally getting that loud snap consistently on release. But I noticed it was causing pain in my shoulder for some reason. Took a week or two off and completely lost it.
Instant subscribe. I'll see later if this helps, but the crossing your arms part makes a lot of sense. I might even try holding my arm up with the off arm for a while as other suggest. I've seen countless videos about keeping your arm at 90deg, but your explanation of the whip of the lower part is less talked about and seems like a great cue. Thank you!
You're welcome and thank you 👊 I still have never actually thrown a disc while bracing my arm... I guess theoretically you should be able to keep your "brace hand" there without actually needing to use it if you stay wide the whole time
@@ArmoryDiscGolf I tried a few throws holding my arm. Worked pretty good! I combined this with dgspindoctors cook the spaghetti drill to keep my arm springy. I was throwing as far and less nose up than my usual stand stills and i didn't even incorporate any weight transfer yet. Thanks so much for posting this!
Nicely explained ty!
Honestly given how often I see beginners just fold their throwing arm back across their body (usually because they're trying to look forward while reaching back), I wonder if it would be effective to have have them actually try throwing the disc with their opposite arm braced with that hand pressing against their bicep as you did with the crossed arm cue. A few test throws at home, suggests this should work. A lot of folks haven't figured out what to do with their off arm anyway, so why not put it to use for a while.
Note also there's a new training aid called Throform that enforces this angle. It straps onto the upper torso runs around behind the back and holds your throwing arm's bicep enforcing that angle and torso to upper arm structure you're talking about.
Funny enough, that's actually how I really discovered this in the first place. Coaching a guy that folds his arm and rounds real bad, showed him the brace as a demo, then realized it was actually pretty helpful for me too haha
Yes, you are onto something with this. I have actually done this exact thing throwing (gently) into a net while retraining myself not to be overly 'loose like a noodle.' It is also a good cue to keep the elbow up and away from the body, a good reminder that the shoulders should actively coil together, and also helps one refrain from reaching too far back on the backswing (or as the video puts it at 4:10, keep the elbow 'outside of the torso.' The equivalent mental cue I developed for this was to let my elbow go no further back than my lead hip).
From 1:00 to 1:40, this video describes with embarrassing precision what I went through trying to develop a backhand and being overly literal about keeping the arm '100% loose.' Eventually I figured I must be misunderstanding something and decided just to watch footage of good players' arm mechanics. Eventually I came to understand that keeping the whole arm '100% loose' and flinging it around with the body is hugely counterproductive. The elbow needs to be out and up away from the body, and this requires substantial rigidity in the shoulder and upper arm. It is the forearm that should be loose.
Now I see several coaches online discussing this thing exactly the way I worked it out for myself, and it feels like I was a year or so early to the party. I am certain this was already taught and taught properly, I just didn't know where to look or how to hear it. Oh well. Live and learn.
@@ArmoryDiscGolf The camera work from 1:40 to 1:45 was just too brutal and too close to home. I resent this!
(But seriously, great video).
@@overfiend75 Ya, I just spent the afternoon teaching two of my friends how to throw (one of them for the very first time), and I had em use this feel cue with some reasonable success. Even had em make a few throws using the opposite arm on their bicep to enforce the angle. The challenge for one of them though is keeping that upper arm structure and firm grip on the disc, while still letting the forearm be loose. They're getting there.
The other feel cue I've had some success with, I got from another video. It's this. "throw" your off shoulder toward the target to initiate the coil. This has the side effect of taking the emphasis away from the idea of "reaching back" which helps keep the torso more upright, and not to lean/tilt their weight onto the back foot.
Great video. Perfect for me now as I’m just trying to get into the Power Pocket.
Thanks 👊 The drill where you hold your throwing arm with your non-throwing arm really helped me visualize it 👍
I can say that what is said here is exactly right! It is when I managed to get my “reach back” to only be me twisting my torso+hips and extending my arm from my elbow (and not moving my shoulder joint as is said in this video), this has made my throws much much better.
The only thing I don’t agree with is regarding Niklas Antilla’s form, sure the shoulder angle is good, but his use of the off arm etc. does not have the type of timing required for a 550+ feet throw.
Thanks 👊
Yeah Niklas has talked about how he doesn't have a very "big arm". He's doing a few funky things (his brace is also kind of soft), but he does a good consistent whip. I'd take his form in a heartbeat overall
Great observation; i have actually played full rounds of golf using my off arm to hold my throwing arm at 90 degrees. Try it
I've done the drills but I haven't thrown full speed with my arm braced. Feels like I'm going to whack myself
I’ve never really understood the power pocket until you explained it in this video. Very well detailed, thanks ✊🏽
Slingshot engaged….😂
Talladega nights 😬
+50 feet, easy. haha
Thanks for the insight and sharing. I think that counts as an ah ha moment for me. Will have to implement this with my “Texas Two-step” in my field training.
it definitely was for me, hope it helps!
Nice vid, I'm gonna get some of my buddies to watch it.
In essence, don't let your elbow drop. When I have students who drop their elbows I get them to draw an arrow on their upper arm, sort of on the outside, pointing towards their target (elbow.) Making sure they see that arrow before release gets them in the pocket, keeps their elbow in the right place and their arm doesn't fly out early.
I like that because in theory it keeps the head down and centered longer as well (which I personally need to work on rn)
@@ArmoryDiscGolf Yes, I forgot to mention how much it helps keeping your head in the right place through the throw. I have a scar on my arm that I still use as a visual cue.
I've recently been working on this, what a super useful video, many thanks !!🙏 😊
Hope it helps you out 👊
They also say you want to knock down a door. This messed things up for me since i attacked with my shoulder.
I started thinking i wanted to knock down the door at head hight with my elbow first. This worked a lot better.
The "knock down the door" thing led me to do the same thing. I've had to rework a lot of well intentioned advice over the years haha. Different things click for different people, I suppose
The shot that Simon threw on Hole 16 yesterday, is the perfect example of this. Didn't even look like he reached back. 400ft with a Hex.
Haven't played in a while and went out today and noticed some of my throws were extremely late releases on hyzer...but they felt like maybe 50-60% power but went my 100% power distance. Might've flirted with good form day 1.
On the 🆙😎
But how do I grip the disc hard while being loose?
I recently got my average drive up to about 475 (and can get over 500) and it’s pretty much all because I started focusing on reaching out, and having the disc on a slight anhyzer in the reach back.
welp, time to start putting the disc on a slight anhyzer in the reach back I guess. haha
@@ArmoryDiscGolf it seems to help get the nose down. I’ve heard different things about that (such as only hold it on the angle you’ll throw it) but also heard people recommend it.
@@garnerthecube my anhyzer shots are typically more nose down than my hyzers, so anecdotally speaking I'd say it checks out
Wow 🎉🎉🎉 Thanks. So helpful! It makes perfect sense now hahahaha.
I think I get it, I do struggle with this among other things. But I'm still a little confused on the height of the reach back, some players are definitely extending their arm fully or at least it appears so. So I shouldn't extend my arm fully and keep a bit of a 90 degree in it?
I'm not sure what you mean by "height of the reach back"
The 90° that I'm referring to is between your chest and upper arm, that should remain throughout the reach back, regardless of how much you hinge at the elbow. Is that clarifying at all?
"Outside your torso".
Hadn't considered this and now it seems so obvious. I may have to add you to my Christmas list after my next round, lol.
haha I highly recommend NOT starting at full speed when implementing new form, fwiw. I found that I started by shanking shots right because I was used to compensating for a collapsed pocket, but after doing this for a few weeks I'm getting much smoother distance and hitting lines more consistently 👍
Ty bro
another pro that you can see this in is Emmerson Keith he is a great example to watch
EK just dropped a -16 1064 at a tournament we hosted last weekend so I'm strongly inclined to agree that he's doing something right haha
Can you really keep the elbow to the wrist “loose” if you’re tightly gripping the disc? When I watch a lot of pros throw I can literally see the disc indented or bent even from their grip. Just wondering how to get both happening at the same time when such a grip tenses your wrist/forearm/elbow
Great question. Like I said, it's an active motion from that position and you don't 'actually' want that "floppy" motion like I demonstrated. But if you drag the disc in a line across your chest and continue forward into the "deep pocket" as far as you can, you'll notice at some point your elbow reaches full extension and the disc has to pivot out and around the elbow ("whipping" around that pivot, as demonstrated).
SO- technically your lower arm isn't "loose", but I find it's helpful to think of it that way instead of trying to actively spin the disc forward and around that pivot. Lmk if that makes sense
@@ArmoryDiscGolf oooh ok nice man! If I missed that in the video thanks for breaking it down for me here!
I don't know what your skill level is, but you don't need a super tight grip unless you're actually at that top level of distance where you need all the help you can get to stop the disc from pulling out early. Depending on where you are, a tight grip can hinder you more than help you.
But if you're breaking 450, yea, you really need to hold on to that sucker.
Whip it. Whip it good!
And there are still other parts of the disc golf form, heh, that YOU can CERTAINLY screw up.
Why'd you have to be speaking directly to me like that.
😂
Off to the training field to find out if this works. I`ll comment later...
Good luck! Grab a video and check that power pocket 💪
@@ArmoryDiscGolf I went out to the field to practice this, but muscle memory just got the best of me! I did however have 2-3 throws where it felt very different, and i think i hit the power pocket in ways i never did before. The trials continue tomorrow, i`ll let you know how it works out! As usual, a very informative and interesting video! Really appreciate the content!!
@@Venc1698 try throwing what feels like 75% if you're not already 💪 and thank you
I find field work with putters can help with some of those muscle memory issues. Relax and throw smooth, it's a putter, you're not going full send.
Casually drops jennifer clip in. Haha nice
I'm sick and tired of you telling me things that I need to hear. 😆
always more to work on 😉
Hey I think you're partially correct but won't transfer to a lot of people. Just because you hit the power pocket doesn't mean you get the whip. You're leaving out the biggest part in this and it's to throw the arm. The shoulders rotate initially but then stop acting as the base of the whip and not the top of the arm. Watch over throws 72- 82 mph throw video. You didn't correctly demonstrate that you need to stop the rotation of the shoulders
Most pros are also 6ft tall with long ole arms and big hands plus there perfect form is a perfect recipe for greatness
I'm working on a video now on how to grow taller but until I get the kinks on that one worked out I'm going to just keep trying to improve my form 😆
When you discover keeping your thumb down thru the power pocket your gonna see some distance