ETA vs In House Movements - Which is better ? Federico Talks Watches
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ย. 2016
- ETA vs In House Movements - Which is better ? Federico Talks Watches
In this episode of Federico Talks Watches I discuss the controversial topic of ETA vs In House movements ? Which is better? The truth is, it all depends. Many watch companies were forced to make in house movements after swatch group said they would limit supply of ETA movements. This spurred innovation which is a good thing, but a lot of sub par movements also hit the market.
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![[EN] ETA or Sellita movements? Do you know what are they and what are the differences?](/img/n.gif)
Federico mixes knowledge, class, and controversy all into one deliciously sweet martini. Served over ice of that suave voice of his.
Great comment. I love it. So he's now not only the David Attenborough of the youtube watch aficianado community but also the Mr Baritone Barry White voice of the youtube watch aficionado community as well. He may be very happy with that 😆😆😆
Most knowledgeable watch makers have highest respect for most ETA movements. Most uninformed watch snobs, who could not even explain mechanics of movements, love to criticize ETA. Good video Federico. Thanks for touching on this subject. I think you could even expend this further and provide another great service to genuine watch lovers.
I have an ETA 2836-2 day date, which used to be +15 seconds a day. After it was regulated by my watchmaker, it still remains dead on the six o'clock news six days after I have set the time.
Mike Braykovich "criticize" - decry. Sorry for calling you out for a comment that I 99% agree but they don't have the knowledge to deserve croticizing eta, or quartz, or any "not real" watch.
Actually , when you own a watch from The Swatch group, the ETA is an house movement 😉
lol, technically you are not wrong...
You're right.
Well said indeed, and it is also my experience, that once you have had your watchmaker regulate an ETA movement, it becomes just as accurate as any Rolex movement !
+N.I ADDICTIVE GUY I agree. My experience with Omega co-axial - accurate, strong, durable, looks fairly nice and longer power reserve than the usual 40 or so hours.
Furthermore, you never get to hear Rolex fanboys criticizing Tudor for using ETA movements while the same people prove more than eager to knock on Omega's movements for being "ETA based" - I just can't take it, hence the reason why I stopped making videos !
Great video again! Well explained. Never had any issues with the three ETAs in my collection. They keep time like day 1.
Hands down, the most knowledgeable and balanced watches channel in TH-cam. Keep it up!
I have a 1998 Omega Seamaster. At the time I bought it, I didn't even know what ETA was. Fast forward 19 years with a wee more knowledge of time pieces, and I have been extremely impressed with the movement. I have yet to service the watch, and it keeps great time. I plan on taking it in for service this year. A proven track record that I have experienced first hand.
Hi, Federico! I've always been interested in watches, but more in an aesthetic way. But in the recent months I've started to appreciate the art and work behind traditional watchmaking. And seeing your videos, such as this one, really helps me learn more about movements and generally everything one would want to learn. I'm kind of a hoarder so I look forward to expanding my collection over the next X amount of years. Keep up the good work, I really can't get enough of your videos and it really helps newbies such as myself out.
Sincerely,
Magnus
Love your content very informative. Quick and to the point.
Federico... Thank you for addressing a topic that's concerned me for quite some time. You are far more of an authority on movements than I am, but I have never believed being new or custom or proprietary or in-house is a guaranteed good thing! I'm happy to have my notion confirmed by an expert.
Love your videos. TGV is great, but mostly reviews and about lifestyle subject matter. I love how informative your videos are. They help to build knowledge about how to make smart informative purchases.
Great video Federico, I had to decide between ETA and in house when I bought a brand new Tudor Pelagos from my local AD In March. I choose the ETA version as the watch dial was cleaner and I have had plenty of great ETA watches over the years. The movement in my watch is with chronometer grade and I got a healthy discount to as the AD wanted to clear out the ETA version to make room for the new version. keep up the great work. big thumbs up for your channel 👍
I think in house movements really represents the manufacture's philosophy, quality and competence! :)
great video, I also prefer ETA movements because if 10 years from now my watch fails and the watch brand is no longer in the market, it will still be easy to find someone to fix it.
Fair point and, worse case, you may have to slap in a new 200-300$ movement.
Federico, this is one of your best videos: very knowledgeable, full of facts, point well argued. Bravo!
Great video. This is why I believe the Swatch Group and Seiko are the real kings of horology. Both set the world standard on what a reliable, EASILY serviced movement should be and its no wonder why they command so much market share and have others begging to use their movements. From Hamilton to Certina to Omega and beyond, and from Seiko5 to Grand Seiko to Credor, collectors should feel real pride in owning ANY piece from these industry masters. Don't let anyone [snobs] look down their noses at you because on your wrist lies a technological marvel made by a worthy watchmaker.
Totally agree. I would go a step further based on your comment. In house does not mean luxury. Seiko are all in house and some movements are low end and others are high end : you can't compare a 7s26 with the high beat 36.000 on the only criteria that they are both in house. And low end in my mouth, specially about seiko, is not a negative word as they have shown a very good robustness ! So in house or low end does not mean that it's high or low price : it can be both at the same time.
Good movements made for reliability and toughness but not decorated since there is no display case-back. Not everyone wants or needs a luxury watch.
Hey Hoop, I hope all's well😊
Let's not forget that the 60's-70's Daytonas, some of the most prized Rolex's of the last half century+, had the ETA movement.
I believe that it also makes the piece much easier and more affordable to be worked on when the time comes as parts are much more available, more economical and there are more quality watch makers that are able to work on these movements than an in-house movement.
Stay well My Friend,
RP
Been reading a lot on the Panerai P.9000 calibre. I'm in love with the PAM00389.
Thank you for being concise, knowledgeable and unpretentious. Nobody else creating watch content is all three.
You are getting better and better every time I watch you. Keep up good work!
Thank you val!
This is a very interesting video, and what you say makes total sense. As much as I like the idea of in house movements, they really don't make sense if the firm doesn't have the expertise, equipment, and R&D budget to properly design and manufacture in house. They may make for good marketing (look at us, we are real watchmakers!) but may actually lead to a product that is really no better (and in some cases inferior) to those using outside movements such as ETAs.
I'm not really into Swiss luxury watches (more into moderately priced Japanese ones) but I have really enjoyed your TH-cam videos, Federico. I've learned a lot from you, and I hope you keep sharing your vast amount of knowledge about the watch industry.
Very good video federico,i own the Tudor black bay with the eta 2824 which loses 2 sec over 7 days and have just ordered the bronze with in house I'm pretty sure there will not be a lot in it regarding time keeping yes it's going to be good to own my first in house but it's not the be all and end all,the value for money is more important and build quality I'm very happy to have an eta movement especially when it comes to service we all know when it comes to servicing in house you normally get stung,keep up the great work.
2 stunning pieces... Cant go wrong with either...
Great topic. Great run-time. Great consternation to hear you left one of the coolest watches EVER sitting in a box for six months!
Easy access to ETA movements which are proven & reliable has led to *features* stagnation especially. Many new & lovely cases and dials have come out, but not much new in the way of "what can this watch DO".
Would love to hear you speak on the peculiar Swiss definition of monopoly and what it means for the watch industry!
What a great topic....A few weeks ago I bought a Tudor Pelagos titanium dive watch, used, but still pricey. Last week I bought a new Arista pilot watch with titanium case and SW200 movement, saphire crystal for about one/tenth the amount of the Tudor. The SW200 Sellita ETA Clone vs. an in-house MT5612 Swiss. The Tudor has a nicer bracelet, came also with rubber straps, has a nicer dial, helium escape valve and is more water proof.
If the watch companies are forced to make in-house movements, they'll just modify the existing movements and market them under their brand much like a mattress. Then they can justify or fandangle their cost.
Thank you for the informative video, for me the best watch is the watch that stay longer on your wrist, Japanese of course..
Great video Fed ☺ You sure know how to select topics that will start a raging fire! Gonna be a lot of comments here for sure
I've never had s problem with in house movements. Like you I have a watch maker I've known for years and he's never sold or if I buy online steered me in the wrong direction. Great video as always and solid pictures on Instagram. 👍🇮🇹
very much agree on the ETA reliability point. for example 2892a2 is a hell of the movement for the money even in the low end grade. Fell in love with Ulysse Nardin dual time/big date based on this movement with added complication. I think with modern technology when they can use computer based design abilities and CNC machinery to produce complex parts the can come up "easier" with "unique" movements but I'd stick with proven designs. ETA is definitely been around for while to earn trust that's for sure.
Nice watch! I used to have that same Eterna but did not like the bracelet whatsoever. it's gone now but I miss it. It actually uses an ETA 2893 with the GMT function.
On the subject, I recently spent the most I've ever spent on an ETA movement watch. $4k for the new IWC Ingenieuer and I think it's my favorite watch of all time. I prefer it over all my in-house movement watches in the 10k range. Besides, my most valuable and collectible vintage Tudors use ETA from nearly 40 years ago and run like a top!
Hi Federico,
You nailed it! When it comes to accuracy the ETA 2824-2, of my €1,000 Sinn 556 IM, beats the chronometer certified, in house DUW 3001 of my Nomos Orion easily. On the other hand, my relatively cheap Orient Mako II, with its in house movement, is the best time keeping, mechanical watch I got. It runs within 3-5 seconds ahead per week!
Best regards,
Claus
Thank you! So tired of people ripping ETA movements.
Very helpful Frederico; thank you. I often try and understand my new hobby through the medium of car engines - you'll be surprised what is under the bonnet (oops; I mean 'hood') of some of these 'prestige' cars. Besides - not many of us can afford to be 'early adopters' in such an expensive hobby. It puts a dampener on some of the stick that Bremont were/are getting for not jumping into an 'in-house' movement straight away. That's my uninitiated thoughts anyway. Thanks for all the advice.
This is very informative, thank you...
Thank you for a very interesting and educating video, Federico! I want you all the best this summer and God bless you! :-)
Great vid Fede. So helpful.
Great video thanks for educating 👍
Nice one Federico, very interesting video. Thank you. I've also got to say your intro music is great...
Thanks chris... Glad you liked it...
Another fantastic video my friend. I am relatively new to the glorious world of time pieces. Thank you for sharing your perspective.
My pleasure Casey...
I have never had a problem with the idea of an Eta movement. One of my favorite watches of all time is my Omega 2531.80 SMP. It has an Eta 2893-A2. It is highly decorated and chronometer grade. Why would 8care that it is not ‘in house’. I completely agree. In house is cool as long as it is a good in house movement! Keep on keepin’ on Federico!
Excellent Federico. Thank you.
Thanks for taking on this constant debate I hear over and over. I agree. I have several IWC Perpetual Calendars - and the Portuguese Perpetuals with in-house Cal 50XXX are more delicate and temperamental than my cal 76290/ETA BASED Perpetuals. One of my Portuguese Perpetuals recently went in for service and they replaced the Pellaton winding pawls with high-density/hard ceramic, because the brass ones were wearing too fast. A good move, to extend the service cycle. My other perpetual calendars based on the 7750 are highly modified, decorated with IWC's proprietary perpetual module are very robust. I have no concern golfing with my GST perpetual Calendar Chrono or DaVinci, Edition Kurt Klaus. Also, the modified ETAs keep better time and have gone far longer between service...
Great video sir! I prefer In-House movements but to your point there are some terrible ones out there. What upsets me is brands charging "haute horology" prices for watches with affordable ETA movements. Any watch at a fair price with an ETA movement is great. I have a few luxury pieces with ETA movements I plan to trade in for the newer in-house versions once they establish a reputation for durability and reliability.
I have talked with someone who worked for Swatch several years. I asked him what he thinks about ETA and he said they are great. And from some point they are also In House. For me as a consumer I expect 3 things from a movement: 1. Reliability 2. Accuracy 3. Easy to service. If these are fulfilled you have a high quality movement. If you consider in House movements no on can tell you if they are really as reliable as an ETA which is out there for more than 30 years. From the price point you are right, ETA makes the watch cheaper, in house more expensive. But are they really better? Really? And it is not only the movement which makes a watch expensive (also case, dial, bezel, crystal, bracelet, crown...). I want to buy the new Tudor Black Bay but I am hesitating if I should pick the old ETA version just because of its reliability. (J. Anthony: Like your channel as well ;))
If you are thinking of getting the Black Bay Black I would rather get the one with the ETA movement with the rose logo on the dial. Relatively short period of production for that particular model, so it could be very collectible in the future.
Great point; I totally agree with you and I am surprised that very rarely do people bring this up, that ETA movements should carry ETA prices.
But, as someone said earlier. A watch with ETA movement should have ETA price, instead of jack up the price 10 times high simply because of the brand.
Do you think it costs Rolex any more than it cost ETA to make a movement? Do only a couple of hundred dollars (or much less) of that $9000 Rolex price comes from its in House movement....the rest is in the quality of the rest of the watch...and in the name.... same with ETA movements in more costly watches.
Thanks for writing about watch movements Federico. This is a topic that gets overlooked. Beauty is skin deep, but the soul of a watch is inside. If one wanted a watch with no soul, one might just look at their phone.
Thanks for these videos. They form the foundation of my watch education.
I like UG, but Fed's the professor.
Great video. The same question has definitely crossed my mind. I have a $500 Glycine moonphase watch that claims an in-house calibre. I've come to learn that it is a slightly modified Sellita. The watch is COSC spec, but not officially. I'm very impressed. There is no way that Breitling, or any other watchmaker who had access to ETA's is making movements from a clean slate. Why wouldn't you reverse engineer? Who is overseeing what is allowed to be considered an in-house movement? What modifications need to be made to legally create a new calibre?
Again. Great channel.
Another thought on market feedback on recent in-house movement quality. When a brand relies on decorating/refinishing supplied base movements from reliable suppliers like ETA/Swatch - this frees up capital because CAPEX and OPEX is lower being there is no large R&D department for movement design...
Also, as brands build out R&D for In-house movement development - they will have to refine over many many years of customer experience, service history and data - we should expect a "long tail" of incremental improvement because you can't test for such an immense sample of conditions and experiences - hence, why we see issues in early years of intro of new in-house product. You can't do R&D forever and need to ship product.
wow, couldn't have put it better myself...
Great video as usual. I have a lot of experience of the Seiko 7s26 in house movement, cheap, ugly (that makes it beautiful in my book) and has always worked a treat.
Great Video!
Thanks for the info
Great vid Federico!
Federico,
Interesting reflexion around an important topic when it comes to shopping watches. Thank you for sharing it!
Salutations,
JRB
Interesting video. It parallels the car industry in a way. In the 60s small boutique car companies would use big cheap powerful American V8s in their cars: Facel Vega, sunbeam Tigers, Iso Grifo, Jensen Interceptors just to name a few. Even now, many small companies will use GM LS and Ford Coyotes in their sports cars. These cars could cost many times more than the Chevy and Ford cars that would have these motors in them. They used them for the same reason watch makers used the Eta movements - value, easy service and parts, while being reliable and performance.
You influenced me to go back and check all my watches movement.
Great and Educative video.
very good video very helpful to me thank you
Love the Piaget commercial before your vid!
excellent excellent excellent video. thank you so much for the wonderful explanation! Federico, you are the top man for watch reviews!
Thank you Angelus... Very very kind of you to say...
My one-watch collection would be a Rolex Explorer, 2016 version, with an in-house 3132 movement. That watch could easily take more punishment than my arm could. Thanks for the video, Fed!
Wow Bradley Hill
Thanks for that Info. Both of my Oris pieces have that movement and whole they aren't COSC certified they both keep time we'll within COSC specs. appreciate the information.
Subscribed, I enjoy your videos
I've heard that the AP inhouse-calibre 3120 that followed the jlc-based calibre 2121 in the Royal Oak turned out to have critical issues they only found out about in its first years and removed these afterwards when the watches came in for service. Is it the movement with the continuously failing part in the 20k-30k watch you were talking about?
great video. I have a 15 year old Omega Seamaster bought new that may have an ETA movement. It keeps good time at -4 sec and day and has never been serviced. I used it daily for 13 and a half years.
Very informative Video. And great you own a KonTiki, I love Eterna! And they share a lot of history with ETA.
TREMENDOUS value....
Good video. Great points. ETA makes very high quality movements and dissing a watch that uses one is just another form of horological snobbery, which is an ugly thing in my opinion. Omega made their 8500 but my planet ocean with its modified ETA 2500 is still great. I think it's particularly funny to look down on a movement made by a company within the same family (I.e. Omega using ETA). I guess it comes down to how broad your definition of "in house" is.
There's generally a huge respect for the Omega Cal. 2500 among many watch aficionados, myself included. Not only does it mark an Omega crescendo as a watch manufacturer, but also a peak of Omega watch movement evolution. I was initially disappointed when I bought my PO Liquidmetal Limited Edition in 2011, learning that the new 8500 had just been launched, today I couldn't be more proud of my Cal. 2500 after the bulky Cal. 8500 have had its lukewarm reception, and my current Cal. 2500 has become a sought after collectible.
based on feedback from users of both the 8500 is miles better than the 2500, most of the 8500 users reported gains and losses no greater than 1 second every 3 days, which is ridiculously accurate for a mechanical watch, whilst the 2500 is closer to -3+5 a day.
Scott Dreger e.g = example i.e = re explaining your thought with a different definition...just some basic english rules. i.e. And e.g. Improper use would usually get me a lowered letter grade on my composition.
Awesome video. Loved the topic.
Cheers Roelf, glad you got something out of it...
A very interesting report.
Great topic once again Fed.. I may have commented on this previously, sometimes I stumble upon videos I've already watched and commented on. My memory can sometimes be swiss cheese-like.
My quick take on this for what it's worth:
In-house are always better even if they arent better, does that make
sense?
I wont lie, I own microbrands with ETA, but once you go over the $2-3k
threshhold and especially when you go up into the tens of thousands, ETA
just wont fly.
Hey Fed...you just mentioned something in this video was very interesting. What are these troublesome movements and what watches are they in. Keep the audience up to date on which watches to stay away from based on inside watchmaker feedback...this would be unique to your channel...
BTW, my Tudor Snowflake has an ETA 2776 Rolex modified movement and it's running great. I had a 79090 and it was also a great time keeper with the ETA 2824-2 Rolex modified movement. The fact they work so well after so many years says a lot.
Any thoughts on Bremont? I was put off by the lack of in-house movement but your videos made me think about getting one as a hardy work watch.
You are right. My dad have a watch West End Sowar Prima Automatic with ETA movement. West end is extreamly affordable swiss watch. Which costs under 500£ bucks. He got it in 1984. Even after 35 years!! Now i am wearing it.!! Perfect time accurecy!! Did you ever see a West End?
That's why i respect Seiko so much... In house all the way and some great achievements along the way
Vanessa Mercedes I hear horror stories of grand seikos getting serviced
I hear a lot of BS too coming from other brands "fanboys".
A Seiko SKX with in-house movement for $170-200 is a hell of a deal.
It saying "in-house" doesn't make it great
Designs are unoriginal on many of their watches..
Great video as always Federico! I think the ETA's get a lot of unnecessary hate, I have a few and they are great. In-house really varies on who makes it. If it is some no name brand saying their movement is full in house means a lot less than a big brand.
absolutely...
A discussion of top (best) movements independent of brand would be very interesting to me. Sort of finding out which Chevy has the Oldsmobile or Cadillac engine?? Ranking of movements according to quality (accuracy or durability)?
Great Videos. At least they should tell us exactly what movement they are using.
Love the Billingham in the corner!
Hello would a case that fits a Miyota 8215 also fit an ETA 2836-2 without needing to change the movement cushion mount? I have an ETA 2836-2 that I would like to put in that case and I would like to know if I need anything else. thx!
Thank you for the video. I agree with you. I particularly like the ETA 2892-A2 movement. What's your opinion about Sellita movements? Are they as good and reliable as their ETA counterparts?
Great video. I'm a big fan of the Rolex 3130 as it's in house but more importantly more utilitarian than many other "fancy" decorated movements. I get a good feeling about the Tudor in house but it may be a touch early to say for sure. I might just take a chance anyway on the new Pelagos and Black Bay Blue.
Federico, do you know if Rolex will be using their new 3255 in the Subs next year?
Cheers!
I believe Rolex switched out a defective part in the Skydweller "covertly" at one point.
One big question on forum few weeks ago was on Tudor Black Bay Eta or Tudor Black Bay in house...
I choose ETA because cheaper, reliable and easy to service in few years. Service is also to consider when choosing in house whom, in general, is more expansiv to repair.
Good points, do habe top grade ETA in a breitling SOH, no issues and keeping the Time Petty acurate, no issues AT all. My GMT had to be send to Rolex after half a year as the datum sometimes stuck. Service of Rolex was great but I house definitely doesn't mean it's better.
Ha yes bit controversial but you hit it spot on . Eta has lasted this long for a reason... They proven they work . Some compmay probably scrambled to make in house which might be why some are problematic . Rushed to get it out to public . Your the man keep up good work dude
Thanks Fed, I love the portuguiser, i wanna get one, but the fact that it is eta movement for that price really bothers me. Do you know any other alternatives for dressier chronograph watch for around the same price?
This reminds me of appliances. People spend a lot of money on washers and dryers that have a whole bunch of special stuff in them assuming they will be better (and along with that "heavier built and more reliable"), but the opposite is true. The assumption that an eta movement that's $200-$300 won't be up to hauling the hands around on a $5k watch is strange, and I wouldn't be surprised if most in-house movements can't live up to the commodity movements. The appliances are the same way - the ones out there in volume are the ones that are the most reliable.
There's another aspect to that with the appliances - the commodity level appliances don't have much of a margin in them. The manufacturers can't afford for them to be as unreliable as the expensive appliances because they have the potential (due to the volume out there and the low margin on each) to ruin the manufacturer if a particular design is a dud - both in reputation, and in cost for warranty service.
ETA can't afford to fix every 2836 level movement if they're a dud, and that's aside from the toyota factor - the eta is known, it doesn't take unnecessary chances (toyota was like that in the 80s and 90s with their commodity cars) - the long experience in making it and the lack of a need for deviation and wow factor (the cost doesn't justify it) makes the odds of it being good very high. An in-house movement could be from something like Volkswagen (who rarely seems to be concered about longevity or even initial reliability) to lamborghini (try to drive one of those for 10 years with little maintenance - see how far you get).
I wonder how the new in-house from Tudor will hold up in the long term
I just purchased a VSA Dive master mecha. has an ETA 2892. What do you think of the company Victorinox?
food for thought ,thanks
What do you think about IWC using the Valjoux 7750 in their pilot chronos?
Hi I have a zenith el premero stratos, a Oris Aquis titan,Tag heure carrera 1887 41 mm on the new seiko platform. Had them 3 yrs already no faults. Am I safe because of in house movement.
I like your video! I had, for example, a bad experience with the overpriced AP 15300
ETA movements are great in Hamilton, Tissot, Mido, Ceterna, and similar. I've had great experiences with ETA.
Fred Calabrese
Certina, Rado.
New to watches, but the videos I see talk about case, bracelet, overall design, quality of construction and how it looks. Never seen a video where judgement is passed totally or even largely on the movement.
Very good video. Repair costs are lower with ETAs
What is the watch poster in the background? the one with the many watches?
Dank you Federico...what do you think about the Heuer 02 - in-House Movement? Is it any good?
Great video Federico, do you have any thoughts on the new in house movement in the Tudor BB? It is still made by Rolex so my hopes are high. Cheers!
Well said!
Federico great video nevertheless iwould like to learn more about concrete examples of in house movements that have been launched and are not worth it.Or do not have even the quality expected from an eta movement.Truly Yours Francisco Echeagaray
Thanks Federico. I like my Rolex and Omega because they actually keep good time. Yes, a mechanical watch that actually keeps good time.
hello Federico what do you think about the Orient sun and mon
Well said
what do you think about the zenith elite 6150 calibre?
I see what you did there Federico with the Eterna WWC! How sneaky of you!
hahahaha... not as subliminal as I thought ;)
Also some don't understand what grade of the movement or the number of points of regulation.