I think the whole ETA. S in house thing came about due to the increasing knowledge of the consumer. Once it became generally known that higher end watches had the same movements as watches that cost thousands less, then the consumers felt they were being ripped off. If you’re paying more you expect a better watch, not the same watch with a different brand name. So the push for in house is part of product differentiation.
people need to relax about this issue. if the movement is in-house and it makes you happy then go for it. if it's a generic eta, miyota, Seiko or whatever and it makes you happy (as long as they're not taking liberties with the price) then go for it. remember it's just a watch. nobody is going to die and it's supposed to be a hobby that is fun not something that consumes your every waking thought.
Agreed! As long as people know what they are buying and what else you could get for the same price. You should buy what you feels is right. Regards GAW
I think that Seiko and Sea-Gull both produce in house movements that are affordable while they also produce mass produce automatics for multiple watchmakers. The biggest thing in dealing with Sea-Gull or other mass produced movements is being sure they are lubricated properly and regulated. Whether your buying Reef Tiger or Orient watches.
actually car companies do that often the engine could be not from the same mother company, also not only the engine the seats on expensive sports cars you'll see Recaro seats, the car stereo will be Bose in high end luxury cars and Breitling clocks inside of a Bentley etc but I agree I dont to drink a coca cola inside a pepsi bottle either xD
Perhaps you should have mentioned The Swatch Group's attempt to discontinue ETA supply to the watch industry outside TSG's umbrella. This would have been a big bang cut off of supply until they were prevented from doing do so by the Swiss Competition Commision. Instead they required ETA to ramp down supply slowly over a number of years. This gave the rest of the watch industry time to adjust, either by developing their own in-house movements or by sourcing their watch movements from alternate vendors such as Sellita. This is the driving force that has lead to the recent increase of in-house movements.
I still believe that was a stupid move as Seiko and Myota for example is selling their calibers openly, so ETA seems presenting calibre market to japanese competitor. Chineese watch manufactures also have Seagull ST2130 which is complete copy of ETA2824-2 for $50, so most of the watch manufactures just switch to one of those suppliers without having to redesign their business.
@@Daveec Here's an article about it www.hodinkee.com/articles/swatch-group-comco-analysis and another www.fratellowatches.com/you-asked-us-does-eta-sell-their-ebauches-outside-the-swatch-group/
Absolutely spot on analysis. There is no justifying the price of a non-precious metal watch in the many $1000’s housing a $250 ETA movement. If you like it great but then live with the fact in a monetary sense you’ve been had. Enjoy it but don’t spit the dummy if other people then point it out. It appears reading the comments on a variety of YT channels that people want exactly that. No having your cake and eating it!
The quality, reliability and precision of ETA movements are showing mostly that those who pay exorbitant premiums for in-house movements, have been had. The ETA movements, found their place in watches more inexpensive than the Rolexes, and Omegas, and even more expensive watches. They were priced as premium luxury products in their own right, and probably with the expensive watches in mind. I.e. what does a Rolex costs? Well what should ours cost then, a third of a Rolex? But now micro brands have gotten hold of ETA movements (and other comparable movements to ETA), and they show us a new and lower price level for quality automatic watches.
Agreed. And they are of course the most vertically integrated watch manufacturer currently on the market. That means they produce *everything* from crystals to springs to quartz crystals to alloys to screws, to you-name-it *in-house*
@@ivanlagrossemoule I'm trying to understand what your addition changes about the fact that Seiko is fully vertically integrated - while the vast majority of the European watch manufacturers are not even close (and still charge an arm and a leg if they produce only the movement "in-house").
Hi William! I've been subscribing to your channel since you only had around a thousand subscribers. You have the best channel about watches. I appreciate the fact that you are an honorable person and present the products as they are. I follow with great interest absolutely whatever you publish. If all reviewers were like you, people would only buy good things at the right prices . Unfortunately, many reviewers promote garbage in exchange for amount of money.
Vostok Automatic movements can be had for $40. I could change one myself after 10 years of reliable service if required. But these are watches for the comrades not the elite. If eta works use it, but don't overcharge. You are right any watchmaker can fix. Same with Seagull. Buy from Seagull all come lubricated. Great video. Thanks.
Big Nasty Do not hesitate to buy Sinn. Excellent company. I own a Sinn 104 st sa after I watched TGV’s channel. Awesome piece. I’m very satisfied with the build quality and after I put a Staib mesh on it, I have gotten countless compliments.
I love ETA movements. My favourite is the valjoux 7750. I like the thickness of watch that comes with the movement. I think the serviceability is paramount. I can't say the same for in house stuff.
I watched this video about a year and a half ago and watching it again today with a bit more knowledge on watches now than I had a year and a half ago I still think it is very informative and balanced.I will add though, that longines (I own a heritage diver 1967, a conquest GMT and a flagship diamond dial with a L.888.2 movement) do put a lot of effort into decorating ETA movements which speaks to their heritage when they once made in house movements. Although Longines Are guilty of overkill in variations. Yet still they provide an extract from archives for free. Basic entry-level brands like Certina,Hamilton and Tissot need to make more effort in decorating their movements for example a little more Perlage ,A splash of Cotes de Geneva on the rotor edge perhaps or even simply a touch of silver or gold plating on bridges for example. I think the decoration of movements can be explored a little more with modern technology therefore giving more inherent value and credibility to long established brands who are not at the top tier of watchmaking but can do a great job of introducing young newcomers to the wonderful world of mechanical watches in the 21st-century. By the way keep up the good work.
Seiko has full vertical in-house watch manufacturing. They even grow their own quartz crystals. Hardlex crystals on Seiko watch faces are made by Seiko. Literally everything they use is in-house, even the metals.
D M that’s not entirely fair. Seiko makes pretty impressive movements. Their lower end movements are dirt cheap and known to run for decades without issue. Their higher end movement with prices matching Swiss counterparts are just as good or better in some cases.
I own watches with in-house movements and ETA’s. None of my Rolexes have been as accurate as watches like Breitling and Maurice Lacroix Masterpiece watches that use ETA. There has to be something to say about movements like ETA that have had decades and thousands of movements made to work out every bug, and perfect them. Still, when I wear my Patek (and others) with awesome in-house movements, I’m grateful for the variety.
problem now is many brands owned by Swatch Group will claim in-house with ETA base movements just because they're both under the same corporate umbrella
Superb video and overview! The advantage of the Swatch owned ETA standard portfolio of movements is that spare parts are abundant for repairs. Also, ETA have good to excellent movements and this collective supply makes them cheaper to make. So, as you well explain, many good Swiss, US, UK, German and other producers use ETA or modified/improved ETA movements. Competition thank God is around so others like Seiko and Orient and some top luxury Swiss (Rolex, Oris,,...) and German producers do make for some or all of their models their own movements and sometimes are better or at least have specific advantages over those from ETA. At the cheaper end Vostok make robust and really quite good movements very, very cheaply. So lucky us automatic watch fans, its never been better for collecting even at the low price end.
Frederique Constant flyback chronograph manufacture has great build quality and looks gorgeous. Its a must-have for watch enthusiast especially you can get it at 40% off the list price.
An in-house movement is not about "is it better." It's about the ability of a watch manufacturer to design, build, and execute a horological masterpiece. Even a 3 hand in-house movement is a technological achievement that most watch companies can't execute.
Not anymore. First of all in 21 century you don't even need to make mechanical movements anymore, using simple and accurate quartz instead. Average mechanical watches bellow $2000 range mostly use simple 4-5 wheels 3-4Hz calibres with isn't a rocket science nowadays. You can build your own ETA2824-2 without issues as its patent expired quite awile ago, and today with affordable 3D-printing and laser cutting you can recreate 37 years old ETA2824-2 even at home.
Yes you are right, I totally agree... It's in fact not an easy task to make your watch functioning punctual in your wrist in all dimensions.. .. Not like a clock hanging in one dimension which already needs to overcome gravity.... and to tell you exact timing
I have no problem with an ETA movement. They’re quality, realiable movements. If you talk to people in the watch industry and watch repairers, they will talk very highly about them. It seems it’s the watch buying public that has an issue with ETA.
Thanks to CAD software, 3D printers etc. making in-house movements is not as prohibitively expensive for watchmakers as it used to be in the past. This and the purchase of ETA by Swatch Group made developing in-house movement a more compelling option.
I live in Saigon and getting an inhouse movement requires sending the watch out of country. That is a big risk for several reasons. Can easily get an ETA, Seiko or Orient serviced for 40 to 50 US dollars or even less. I kind of go with the car analogy. I never really look at the engine unless something goes wrong. But I wouldn't want to buy a Mercedes and find a Mitsubishi power plant inside.
Some people buy both quartz and mechanicals...like myself. I really could care less about how fancy a mechanical movement is. It's diminishing returns for this stuff and at really high price points (like how well finished or how chronometer grade a mechanical movement is, even though a cheap $5 quartz watch will still be more accurate than all mechanical watches). Important factor is what is the price of servicing it eventually. If it's too high, I'm not interested.
Tayyab Pirzada People tend to overlook cost of service. I have been punished by factory service and won't buy a complicated watch again. My only Chrono is a quartz.
Ultimately a watch should record a lapse in time, be it a fraction of a second, a second, a minute, an hour, a day and so on. Ultimately food should keep you alive and healthy but there is something to be said about it being more than just tasty as well. Presentation, colour, subtle variations in texture and so on have been the preoccupation of human beings the world over since who knows how long. I own a quartz watch and a liquid Quartz digital watch. I cannot remember when last I wore them as they are uninteresting beyond functionality it is the collective and chaotic construction that makes mechanical things wonderful in their simplistic goals. Electric cars are the future but who is going to drool over a 15000 W motor for more than a split second. An electric motor has breathed new life into the push scooter. Hip hip hurray! Fortunately the rabbit failed to replace the man as well.🙂
I don't mind owning a ETA movements, they're accurate, reliable and do their job. The servicing was cheap and I'm happy. Sporting my Raymond-Weil Freelancer Diver where you cannot even see the movement. On the other hand, when it comes to my Frederique Constant Moon phase. The in house movment is beautiful and a sight to be hold and admire when I hold the watch. In that regard. The heavily decorated in house is the way to go.
I honestly doubt if there is a massive difference between chronometer grade ETA movements and in house movements by brands such as Rolex. The reality is that most watch pricing has very little to do with the actual cost of manufacturing and assemnling the piece. Really the cost derives from advertising and brand promotion plus massive profits for both the supplier and the retailer. The multiplier on basic manufactured cost is probably 10 to 1 at least....
ETA/Valjoux movements are reliable with a rich history and you are actually able to get them serviced anywhere. Sure there are some movements that I would rather have over these workhorse movements. Especially when I am paying a lot of money. The El Primero comes to mind as a movement I would like to own alongside my 7750's. I also love Omega's anti-magnetic co-axial movement. But I personally would not prefer just any in-house movement over these great tried and tested staples of mechanical watchmaking. Kudos to the brand for producing its own movement and being a real watch maker but it does not necessarily give me a better watch. The only bad experiences I have had with watches were with an in-house movement and a chronograph with a "piggyback" module. In both cases they needed to be sent "home" for the brand to completely replace them which they did but took forever. Packaging up my expensive watches to ship them overseas was something I really, really hated to do. After those experiences ETA movements became a lot more interesting to me. So I will go with in-house, but only if they are making something truly special that sets it apart in terms of design, technology or specs. Unless that in-house movement is amazing or interesting, I would go with ETA.
Nice video! But, don't forget that price differences between high priced watches from upper tier brands who use ETA can justify those prices by the level of finish that goes into those wristwatches.
Thanks! Yes that's true. Sinn and Oris for example, use ETA/Selitta's while having very good build quality. They cost a bit more then your typical ETA powered watch. And in this case i think the price difference is justified. But a watch for $5000 with an ETA is far to expenisve in my opinion. The build quality on a IWC Aquatimer is not $3500 better then a Sinn 104/556. Regards GAW
It depends, there are a number of factors. Rolex Daytona is around 12 mm thick, valjoux 775x based chronographs are between 15-16 which is too much. In-house movement could be designed to be quieter. But to put an in-house movement just for the sake to say so and charge thousands, without any plus doesn't make much sense. But luxury watch is more an emotional buying decision and about status and exclusivity.
The thing is they are all owned by the same group of watch companies so all they have to do is company B buys a movement from company A then B changes a couple of components in the movement and suddenly it's a in house movement
The low grade and top grade ETA are the exact same materials except maybe the shock and hairspring. Everything else is the same materials. Only difference is the finishing with decorated movement. They both can be adjusted to keep the same time. Your only paying extra for the finishing and the fact that they take the time to regulate them before they leave the factory
I absolutely love the look of the IWC Ingenieur 3239 watches, but I was so bummed when I learned they’re using a 2892/SW300 base movement. With a MSRP of $6,600 and a second hand of $3,500-4,000, I just can’t justify buying this watch. Maybe I’ll go for the older, larger and thicker Ingenieur 3227. It really makes me sad IWC chose to go in this direction for about half of their watches
The reason eta's were put in so many watches and were out sourced to sellita to produce,were because of (the numbers needed), to compete with the quartz- movements back in late 1970-80s;A CEO of a top swiss watch company said in a interview with hodinkee that in house movements needed to be tried and tested over time ,ie in years, before there can be said to be a better movement than eta, but he said he can see in time if no major failings, that the in house movements would take over from eta..
The reason many brands are starting to use in-house movements are: 1. You can charge a higher price. 2. And this is the biggest reason: Swatch Group, that owns ETA, makes it harder and harder for non-Swatch brands to source movements.
I mean it honestly doesn't matter to me. ETA makes a good looking and a good performing movement, but I choose to go with Seiko and Orient though because they make an affordable, good looking watch, having an in-house movement is icing on the cake for me. But having said that if I ever find a micro brand watch company that isn't stupidity over priced and makes a style of watch I like then I'll buy it even of it has an ETA movement.
Wow so much poor information here. Manufacturers are going back to "in-house" movements because ETA, being a Swatch company, is no longer supplying to the industry and are no longer willing to supply parts to individual watch repairers and eta copies are not necessarily parts compatible. Across the industry servicing costs are rising as independent watch repairers are excluded from parts supply and even to have a simple repair will require a complete service. For many years watch manufacturers have been either making their own movements of using Ebauches (parts of movements) from other suppliers and enhancing them in-house. It is only relatively recently with the large scale over supply by ETA have their movements became predominant and development stagnated, however this did enable smaller independent designers. Some smaller/newer brands who are able are now making their own in-house, cough, movements (often just made by someone else and slightly tailored) but others have had to move to Soprod, Selitta, Miyota, etc. In general the lifetime ownership costs of even a half decent watch with a, "quality" in-house movement are increasing significantly as most that do this will not be supplying parts unlike the majority of watch manufacturers of the past.
In-house mvmts cost more to service, especially if the parts are not standard. ETA mvmts are reliable, precise, and less expensive to keep running. Seiko mvmts are usually throw-away, costing more to fix than to replace. Japanese reliability and cost versus Germanic cachet, luxury and innovation.
Steve Smith got to ov the accuracy of orient. Swatch may have made a mistake in denying the eta i think the oriental movements will take up the slack. Te greedyswiss movements are ot so superior to myota that they wont take over.
In house doesn't mean much in my opinion. Orient and Seiko make good low cost in house, eta are very reliable and easy to maintain and is often find in very expensive watches. Some in house are mostly "inspired" by other movements to the point it's pretty much a copy of old movement. It's not a big factor for me, in fact having to send a watch to the manufacturer to have it serviced is such a problem with some watches using in house movements that I favor eta over them.
Love my orients. Best bang for the buck but other than that, they are really fine timekeepers. I have an orient explorer timepiece many complications that out of the box gained only one sec a day unregulated. Thats better than any of my swiss watches. I liked the quality so much i purchased the orient sun and moon. Fabulous many complications also pretty darn accurate. I guess you could call me an orient fanboy... I do think the future belongs to seiko though for mid high horology. The grand seiko is a masterpiece. I just cant keep from looking at it.
ETA provides four different grades of their automatic calibres such as the 2824-2. These are STANDARD, ELABORATED, TOP, and CHRONOMETER grade. The grade used and further improved on by luxury watch brands, such as for example Breitling, is the CHRONOMETER grade. The chronometer movements are individually tested and certified by the independent Contrôle Officiel Suisse des Chronomètres (COSC) and all chronometer ETA movements have, for this purpose, individual serial numbers, whereas the lower grades do not. The COSC certification is an awfully expensive process and the chronometer grade ETAs are therefore considerably more expensive than the lower grades used by brands such as Hamilton, Tissot, and so on. For this reason and for the fact that the overall execution of luxury watches is considerably more precise and sophisticated, we cannot expect a luxury watch housing a chronometer grade ETA movement to cost the same as for example a Hamilton or a Tissot. I’m not a watchmaker but I am a passionate watch repair enthusiast, and of all the calibres I’ve worked on the ETAs have impressed me the most using very sophisticated and robust technologies. When you chose an ETA based watch, you’re guaranteed an extremely well tested, reliable, and accurate movement that any skilled watchmaker can service and repair which is a huge advantage for the consumer. I'd say unless we go for Patek, A. Lange & Söhne, and the likes, a chronometer grade ETA is one of the most solid choices we can make.
thanks for mentioning iwc or hublot as tooooo expensive. not long ago i was in the iwc shop at zurich bahnhofstrasse. there i tried the iwc 40mm mark xlll pilot watch with steal bracelet and ets 2824 movement. they sell this watch for 5400 swiss francs. what a joke if not insane...
Hey, Thank you very much for the video. Good job :) I would advice you to get a pop filter as well as a shock mount for your microphone. Don't get me wrong, the sound is good already, but those two will improve it even further and won't require a ton of money. Just my two cents.
You can buy Seiko 5 for $70 and it has in-house movement (most likely Seiko 7S26), you can also buy Orient Bambino for $100 and it will also have an in-house movement (Orient F6722), so no need to pay thouthends of dollars for that.
The movements you described are very basic. What if I want things like hacking seconds, hand winding, a co-axial escapement and so on? You get what you pay for.
@@ivanlagrossemoule Not sure how does you wish for more sophisticated calibre contradict with the fact I stated before? I know those calibres are pretty simple but what would you expect from the watches below $100? I just said it's not compulsory to pay high dollar for the fact of in-house movement.
I avoid in-house because of service costs down the road. That said, an affordable in-house doesn't make sense, so you buy a watch and when it's time for service the service will cost more than what the watch is worth? That of course is just plain stupid, so i don't share your enthusiasm for the more affordable in-house movements, because the service cost will still be crazy high and often involve sending the watch overseas and often a very long wait too. Tag Heuer is a lot less expensive than Hublot or IWC but you still focus your comments on the aquaracer, which is damn near cheap compared to the IWC and Hublot, sometimes I don't get the weird hate against TH AT ALL. Plus for their more expensive models TAG uses in-house movements, and above that they also make some truly amazing movements such as a Tourbillion, the mikrogirder etc that totally shits all over MANY high end brands, such as Rolex for example. But of course you had to shit on TH, just odd. The difference in price between an Aquaracer and those small micro-brands you talk about could easily be justified by brand value, history and even finish. Plus TH will still be around in 10, 20 or 30 years time.
Well some affordable in-house watches like from Orient or Seiko are just really good watches, or have great sentimental value. But I agree, a watch should be one that you feel is worth servicing (rather than just buying a new one, if it's that cheap).
Why not mention Sea-Gull? They have a huge chunk of the market for mechanical movements and are even more affordable than ETA movements. Not swiss-made, but they are used even in some Swiss watches.
When an ETA is in a Tissot it is an in-house movement, does this make Tissot better than a non-Swatch Group watch that has an ETA movement: of course not because it is the same movement. In house means nothing, Only the quality of the movement has meaning. The Tudors with the ETA have better movements than the in house ones and are cheaper.
how we can tell what grade is the ETA movement? As what I know, the ETA movement have four grade, standard, elabore, top, and COSC grade. sometimes I don't know how to differentiate those movement.
+Eric Kksheng If the manufacturer does not tell you what grade the movement have, assume it's standard or in some cases elebore. If it's Top grade the manufacturer will tell you and advertise it's a Top grade movement. COSC grade is just a COSC certified Top movement. Regards GAW
no Seagull or Vostok. I suppose these are not considered by people with a lot of money. However they are easy to regulate and service service and cheap to get and replace parts and whole movements. Rave on.
Watches are luxury products. By definition you will almost always overpay for a nice watch. So, I don't really mind ETA movements, as long as the watch doesn't have a display back.
Very interesting clip. This guy knows definitely what he's talking about. I had a crazy watch interest before but it has calmed down since I opened te door to High End replicas from Taiwan. I have seen Rolex and Vacheron high end replicas that even their own AD's (authorized dealer's) have written "Warranty of Authenticity" on fake AP, Rolex's and even a Vacheron Constantine. You otta ne very very careful today with expensive watches
If I buy a BMW I expect it to have a BMW engine. Most overpriced Swiss watches are not produced by watchmakers, but watch DESIGNERS with a generic movement dropped in. Fine if that's your thing, but give me a Vostok with an in-house movement anyday.
DavidUKesb as someone who has handled hundreds of vostoks, bought, sold and given them away (I still own around 20 of then) I would choose the overpriced Swiss watch with the generic Swiss movement every day of the week, twice on a Sunday.
DavidUKesb vostok has an awful movement and is horribly inaccurate. And comparing a car engine to a watch movement is a false equivalency. An engine is key to the driving experience, the watch movement benefits are murky at best. They don't keep time better, nor are more reliable. It is a marketing term to get you to spends more money for some "mysterious benefit". Even the author of this video is not making a convincing argument.
Except you wouldn't mind buying a Volkswagen with a BMW engine or would you? Still better than a in-house VW engine. And that's exactly what ETA does, give VW kind of watches the engine of a BMW
+DavidUKesb Not a good argument. An car engine gives you tremendous driving experience. Driving a BMW is totally different to driving a Skoda! The performance of the engines can be felt greatly. But what does a Patek do to you that a Seiko can't do? Though there may be some slight differences, these very small differences are tremendously zoomed and exaggerated beyond proportion by marketing!
of course inhouse movement doesn't mean better but it says a lot about brend, is watchmaking what they are really capable of doing or it's just business... thats all
I have a Seiko SKX and Alpanist, obviously in-house movements, I have a Tissot Ballade 3 and 2018 Seastar 1000, all 4 are within +- 6 secounds a day, so they keep great time in my opinion, finish is flawless on all 4 watched, as good as my Omega or Rolex, especially the Tissot, but oh not, the Tissot doesn't have an in house movement, well I have news for you, I think it does, Swatch owns both Tissot and ETA. Moral of the story is, look beyond all the BS and enjoy what you enjoy for the pure reason of enjoyment, not all the BS watch snobbery.
It's not if ETA is better or worse than in house. Anyone selling an ETA watch for $3000 and considerably higher are talking the Mick . Why do people stupidly buy them
I have automatic watch but idk which movement it have. It have sweeping hand and power reserve is about 40hrs. One thing i noticed close to spring it have TC engraving. Can you help what it is? Thanks
More like Bentley vs Mercedes except that in-house doesn't automatically mean better performance or robustness, just more exclusivity. It took Omega two decades to fix their coaxial and there are other examples of companies struggling with bugs in their movements.
I think the whole ETA. S in house thing came about due to the increasing knowledge of the consumer. Once it became generally known that higher end watches had the same movements as watches that cost thousands less, then the consumers felt they were being ripped off. If you’re paying more you expect a better watch, not the same watch with a different brand name.
So the push for in house is part of product differentiation.
people need to relax about this issue. if the movement is in-house and it makes you happy then go for it. if it's a generic eta, miyota, Seiko or whatever and it makes you happy (as long as they're not taking liberties with the price) then go for it. remember it's just a watch. nobody is going to die and it's supposed to be a hobby that is fun not something that consumes your every waking thought.
Fat Boab well said 👏
Agreed!
As long as people know what they are buying and what else you could get for the same price. You should buy what you feels is right.
Regards
GAW
I think that Seiko and Sea-Gull both produce in house movements that are affordable while they also produce mass produce automatics for multiple watchmakers.
The biggest thing in dealing with Sea-Gull or other mass produced movements is being sure they are lubricated properly and regulated. Whether your buying Reef Tiger or Orient watches.
actually car companies do that often the engine could be not from the same mother company, also not only the engine the seats on expensive sports cars you'll see Recaro seats, the car stereo will be Bose in high end luxury cars and Breitling clocks inside of a Bentley etc but I agree I dont to drink a coca cola inside a pepsi bottle either xD
Fat Boab 💯💯💯
Perhaps you should have mentioned The Swatch Group's attempt to discontinue ETA supply to the watch industry outside TSG's umbrella. This would have been a big bang cut off of supply until they were prevented from doing do so by the Swiss Competition Commision. Instead they required ETA to ramp down supply slowly over a number of years.
This gave the rest of the watch industry time to adjust, either by developing their own in-house movements or by sourcing their watch movements from alternate vendors such as Sellita. This is the driving force that has lead to the recent increase of in-house movements.
meson1 o
I still believe that was a stupid move as Seiko and Myota for example is selling their calibers openly, so ETA seems presenting calibre market to japanese competitor. Chineese watch manufactures also have Seagull ST2130 which is complete copy of ETA2824-2 for $50, so most of the watch manufactures just switch to one of those suppliers without having to redesign their business.
Many houses buy movements and make cases around them, allowing them to save money. Do they charge less?
When did this Swiss Competition Commission ruling happen?
@@Daveec Here's an article about it www.hodinkee.com/articles/swatch-group-comco-analysis
and another
www.fratellowatches.com/you-asked-us-does-eta-sell-their-ebauches-outside-the-swatch-group/
Absolutely spot on analysis. There is no justifying the price of a non-precious metal watch in the many $1000’s housing a $250 ETA movement. If you like it great but then live with the fact in a monetary sense you’ve been had. Enjoy it but don’t spit the dummy if other people then point it out. It appears reading the comments on a variety of YT channels that people want exactly that. No having your cake and eating it!
The quality, reliability and precision of ETA movements are showing mostly that those who pay exorbitant premiums for in-house movements, have been had. The ETA movements, found their place in watches more inexpensive than the Rolexes, and Omegas, and even more expensive watches. They were priced as premium luxury products in their own right, and probably with the expensive watches in mind. I.e. what does a Rolex costs? Well what should ours cost then, a third of a Rolex? But now micro brands have gotten hold of ETA movements (and other comparable movements to ETA), and they show us a new and lower price level for quality automatic watches.
"An in house movement is a movement made in house"... thanks to clarify.
Yeah, before his clarification I was like "what the hell could an in house movement possibly mean"
😂😂
He didn't say who's house it was made in.
Juan Alvarez I always wondered! 🤔 so in-house are not made in an outhouse? Maybe just the shitters...🤣
Well, we certainly can't accuse him of being wrong in his definition. Lol!
Seiko has always used inhouse movements at very affordable prices...
@bob morane that's not the definition of inhouse. Of course it's still inhouse.
Agreed. And they are of course the most vertically integrated watch manufacturer currently on the market. That means they produce *everything* from crystals to springs to quartz crystals to alloys to screws, to you-name-it *in-house*
6R15 is good. But 4r35 is not that good. I hate 4r35 and lower.
@@otobotrecords Vertical integration is more of a Japanese necessity than anything else.
@@ivanlagrossemoule I'm trying to understand what your addition changes about the fact that Seiko is fully vertically integrated - while the vast majority of the European watch manufacturers are not even close (and still charge an arm and a leg if they produce only the movement "in-house").
Simplicity is a kind of Beauty, ETA movements... Thanks to the Swiss Watch technology and history creating such a series of good watch movement s
Hi William! I've been subscribing to your channel since you only had around a thousand subscribers. You have the best channel about watches. I appreciate the fact that you are an honorable person and present the products as they are. I follow with great interest absolutely whatever you publish. If all reviewers were like you, people would only buy good things at the right prices . Unfortunately, many reviewers promote garbage in exchange for amount of money.
Vostok Automatic movements can be had for $40. I could change one myself after 10 years of reliable service if required.
But these are watches for the comrades not the elite. If eta works use it, but don't overcharge.
You are right any watchmaker can fix.
Same with Seagull.
Buy from Seagull all come lubricated.
Great video. Thanks.
ETA no longer supply watch companies that are not in the Swatch group which is why so many companies are now using in-house movements
Thanks for the information. Very enlightening. I personally own a Rolex but am looking at a future Sinn purchase. ETA all the way. Fine by me.
Big Nasty Do not hesitate to buy Sinn. Excellent company. I own a Sinn 104 st sa after I watched TGV’s channel. Awesome piece. I’m very satisfied with the build quality and after I put a Staib mesh on it, I have gotten countless compliments.
I love ETA movements. My favourite is the valjoux 7750. I like the thickness of watch that comes with the movement. I think the serviceability is paramount. I can't say the same for in house stuff.
brian johnson LOL!!
I love Seikos ,Citizens and Casios.
I watched this video about a year and a half ago and watching it again today with a bit more knowledge on watches now than I had a year and a half ago I still think it is very informative and balanced.I will add though, that longines (I own a heritage diver 1967, a conquest GMT and a flagship diamond dial with a L.888.2 movement) do put a lot of effort into decorating ETA movements which speaks to their heritage when they once made in house movements. Although Longines Are guilty of overkill in variations. Yet still they provide an extract from archives for free.
Basic entry-level brands like Certina,Hamilton and Tissot need to make more effort in decorating their movements for example a little more Perlage ,A splash of Cotes de Geneva on the rotor edge perhaps or even simply a touch of silver or gold plating on bridges for example. I think the decoration of movements can be explored a little more with modern technology therefore giving more inherent value and credibility to long established brands who are not at the top tier of watchmaking but can do a great job of introducing young newcomers to the wonderful world of mechanical watches in the 21st-century. By the way keep up the good work.
One of my watch has ETA 2824-2 TOP grade which is not from the Swatch group brand. That one has unbelievable accuracy!
Seiko makes numerous in-house movements.
Seiko has full vertical in-house watch manufacturing. They even grow their own quartz crystals. Hardlex crystals on Seiko watch faces are made by Seiko. Literally everything they use is in-house, even the metals.
Orient as well.
Just goes to show it doesn't mean shit then.
D M that’s not entirely fair. Seiko makes pretty impressive movements. Their lower end movements are dirt cheap and known to run for decades without issue. Their higher end movement with prices matching Swiss counterparts are just as good or better in some cases.
I own watches with in-house movements and ETA’s. None of my Rolexes have been as accurate as watches like Breitling and Maurice Lacroix Masterpiece watches that use ETA. There has to be something to say about movements like ETA that have had decades and thousands of movements made to work out every bug, and perfect them. Still, when I wear my Patek (and others) with awesome in-house movements, I’m grateful for the variety.
problem now is many brands owned by Swatch Group will claim in-house with ETA base movements just because they're both under the same corporate umbrella
Superb video and overview! The advantage of the Swatch owned ETA standard portfolio of movements is that spare parts are abundant for repairs. Also, ETA have good to excellent movements and this collective supply makes them cheaper to make. So, as you well explain, many good Swiss, US, UK, German and other producers use ETA or modified/improved ETA movements. Competition thank God is around so others like Seiko and Orient and some top luxury Swiss (Rolex, Oris,,...) and German producers do make for some or all of their models their own movements and sometimes are better or at least have specific advantages over those from ETA. At the cheaper end Vostok make robust and really quite good movements very, very cheaply. So lucky us automatic watch fans, its never been better for collecting even at the low price end.
You are right, besides the design and the quality of the case, the movement is the most important part.
Frederique Constant flyback chronograph manufacture has great build quality and looks gorgeous. Its a must-have for watch enthusiast especially you can get it at 40% off the list price.
An in-house movement is not about "is it better." It's about the ability of a watch manufacturer to design, build, and execute a horological masterpiece. Even a 3 hand in-house movement is a technological achievement that most watch companies can't execute.
NH35 is hardly a stunning movement
Not anymore. First of all in 21 century you don't even need to make mechanical movements anymore, using simple and accurate quartz instead. Average mechanical watches bellow $2000 range mostly use simple 4-5 wheels 3-4Hz calibres with isn't a rocket science nowadays. You can build your own ETA2824-2 without issues as its patent expired quite awile ago, and today with affordable 3D-printing and laser cutting you can recreate 37 years old ETA2824-2 even at home.
@@NathanChisholm041 its a workhorse, it wasn't event designed to be stunning :)
Exactly, I totally agree
Yes you are right, I totally agree... It's in fact not an easy task to make your watch functioning punctual in your wrist in all dimensions.. .. Not like a clock hanging in one dimension which already needs to overcome gravity.... and to tell you exact timing
Very nice job, really liked the video.
I have no problem with an ETA movement. They’re quality, realiable movements. If you talk to people in the watch industry and watch repairers, they will talk very highly about them. It seems it’s the watch buying public that has an issue with ETA.
Thanks to CAD software, 3D printers etc. making in-house movements is not as prohibitively expensive for watchmakers as it used to be in the past. This and the purchase of ETA by Swatch Group made developing in-house movement a more compelling option.
I live in Saigon and getting an inhouse movement requires sending the watch out of country. That is a big risk for several reasons. Can easily get an ETA, Seiko or Orient serviced for 40 to 50 US dollars or even less. I kind of go with the car analogy. I never really look at the engine unless something goes wrong. But I wouldn't want to buy a Mercedes and find a Mitsubishi power plant inside.
you buy mechanical watches, but never look at the movement? what is wrong with you? get a quartz
i have a Seiko Flightmaster rqtz
Some people buy both quartz and mechanicals...like myself. I really could care less about how fancy a mechanical movement is. It's diminishing returns for this stuff and at really high price points (like how well finished or how chronometer grade a mechanical movement is, even though a cheap $5 quartz watch will still be more accurate than all mechanical watches).
Important factor is what is the price of servicing it eventually. If it's too high, I'm not interested.
Tayyab Pirzada People tend to overlook cost of service. I have been punished by factory service and won't buy a complicated watch again. My only Chrono is a quartz.
J.R. Renegold, exactly. It's why I'm a huge fan of quartz now.
I don't care where the movement is made as long as it's accurate!
Surely that's the ultimate point of watches?
Then ultimately, your best price/performance buy would be a 1 dollar Quartz watch from Aliexpress.
Ultimately a watch should record a lapse in time, be it a fraction of a second, a second, a minute, an hour, a day and so on. Ultimately food should keep you alive and healthy but there is something to be said about it being more than just tasty as well. Presentation, colour, subtle variations in texture and so on have been the preoccupation of human beings the world over since who knows how long. I own a quartz watch and a liquid Quartz digital watch. I cannot remember when last I wore them as they are uninteresting beyond functionality it is the collective and chaotic construction that makes mechanical things wonderful in their simplistic goals. Electric cars are the future but who is going to drool over a 15000 W motor for more than a split second. An electric motor has breathed new life into the push scooter. Hip hip hurray! Fortunately the rabbit failed to replace the man as well.🙂
Excellent video and illustration , extremely informative I couldn't agree more with you about the movement quality on the 2428
I don't mind owning a ETA movements, they're accurate, reliable and do their job. The servicing was cheap and I'm happy. Sporting my Raymond-Weil Freelancer Diver where you cannot even see the movement.
On the other hand, when it comes to my Frederique Constant Moon phase. The in house movment is beautiful and a sight to be hold and admire when I hold the watch. In that regard. The heavily decorated in house is the way to go.
I do not mind ETA movements in my watches. They are easier to service and if they are decorated then they can be a little bit attractive...
I honestly doubt if there is a massive difference between chronometer grade ETA movements and in house movements by brands such as Rolex. The reality is that most watch pricing has very little to do with the actual cost of manufacturing and assemnling the piece. Really the cost derives from advertising and brand promotion plus massive profits for both the supplier and the retailer. The multiplier on basic manufactured cost is probably 10 to 1 at least....
ETA/Valjoux movements are reliable with a rich history and you are actually able to get them serviced anywhere. Sure there are some movements that I would rather have over these workhorse movements. Especially when I am paying a lot of money. The El Primero comes to mind as a movement I would like to own alongside my 7750's. I also love Omega's anti-magnetic co-axial movement. But I personally would not prefer just any in-house movement over these great tried and tested staples of mechanical watchmaking. Kudos to the brand for producing its own movement and being a real watch maker but it does not necessarily give me a better watch.
The only bad experiences I have had with watches were with an in-house movement and a chronograph with a "piggyback" module. In both cases they needed to be sent "home" for the brand to completely replace them which they did but took forever. Packaging up my expensive watches to ship them overseas was something I really, really hated to do. After those experiences ETA movements became a lot more interesting to me. So I will go with in-house, but only if they are making something truly special that sets it apart in terms of design, technology or specs. Unless that in-house movement is amazing or interesting, I would go with ETA.
Nice video! But, don't forget that price differences between high priced watches from upper tier brands who use ETA can justify those prices by the level of finish that goes into those wristwatches.
Thanks!
Yes that's true. Sinn and Oris for example, use ETA/Selitta's while having very good build quality. They cost a bit more then your typical ETA powered watch. And in this case i think the price difference is justified. But a watch for $5000 with an ETA is far to expenisve in my opinion. The build quality on a IWC Aquatimer is not $3500 better then a Sinn 104/556.
Regards
GAW
It depends, there are a number of factors. Rolex Daytona is around 12 mm thick, valjoux 775x based chronographs are between 15-16 which is too much. In-house movement could be designed to be quieter.
But to put an in-house movement just for the sake to say so and charge thousands, without any plus doesn't make much sense.
But luxury watch is more an emotional buying decision and about status and exclusivity.
The thing is they are all owned by the same group of watch companies so all they have to do is company B buys a movement from company A then B changes a couple of components in the movement and suddenly it's a in house movement
Having an in-house movement requires talent. And what that says about watch companies conveniently buying movement w/c a lot of other companies use?
You make a very good point why can some companies use The sane ETA movements and be much more expensive
This a a great video, informative and educational. It answered a number of questions for me. Thank you.
Thank you, glad you liked it! :)
Regards
GAW
An in house movement is likely to be much more expensive to service unless its just a fork of an existing movement.
Seagull makes very decent in-house movements at the most affordable prices in my opinion.
dear sir fossil watch are worth with japanese moment
and japanese momment is good and which company manufactured it
ORIS and Seiko are using in house movement at affordable prices. Good video.
The low grade and top grade ETA are the exact same materials except maybe the shock and hairspring. Everything else is the same materials. Only difference is the finishing with decorated movement. They both can be adjusted to keep the same time. Your only paying extra for the finishing and the fact that they take the time to regulate them before they leave the factory
COSC grade ETAs have a different balance wheel. Different shape and different material.
I absolutely love the look of the IWC Ingenieur 3239 watches, but I was so bummed when I learned they’re using a 2892/SW300 base movement. With a MSRP of $6,600 and a second hand of $3,500-4,000, I just can’t justify buying this watch. Maybe I’ll go for the older, larger and thicker Ingenieur 3227. It really makes me sad IWC chose to go in this direction for about half of their watches
The reason eta's were put in so many watches and were out sourced to sellita to produce,were because of (the numbers needed), to compete with the quartz- movements back in late 1970-80s;A CEO of a top swiss watch company said in a interview with hodinkee that in house movements needed to be tried and tested over time ,ie in years, before there can be said to be a better movement than eta, but he said he can see in time if no major failings, that the in house movements would take over from eta..
The reason many brands are starting to use in-house movements are: 1. You can charge a higher price. 2. And this is the biggest reason: Swatch Group, that owns ETA, makes it harder and harder for non-Swatch brands to source movements.
I mean it honestly doesn't matter to me. ETA makes a good looking and a good performing movement, but I choose to go with Seiko and Orient though because they make an affordable, good looking watch, having an in-house movement is icing on the cake for me. But having said that if I ever find a micro brand watch company that isn't stupidity over priced and makes a style of watch I like then I'll buy it even of it has an ETA movement.
i have to had rolexes, but I prefer Eta, the movement is robust like a tank and If I break an Eta watch, I can easily buy it again
Wow so much poor information here. Manufacturers are going back to "in-house" movements because ETA, being a Swatch company, is no longer supplying to the industry and are no longer willing to supply parts to individual watch repairers and eta copies are not necessarily parts compatible. Across the industry servicing costs are rising as independent watch repairers are excluded from parts supply and even to have a simple repair will require a complete service.
For many years watch manufacturers have been either making their own movements of using Ebauches (parts of movements) from other suppliers and enhancing them in-house. It is only relatively recently with the large scale over supply by ETA have their movements became predominant and development stagnated, however this did enable smaller independent designers. Some smaller/newer brands who are able are now making their own in-house, cough, movements (often just made by someone else and slightly tailored) but others have had to move to Soprod, Selitta, Miyota, etc. In general the lifetime ownership costs of even a half decent watch with a, "quality" in-house movement are increasing significantly as most that do this will not be supplying parts unlike the majority of watch manufacturers of the past.
Jim Porter how do you know tjis infomation Mr Jim Porter?
In-house mvmts cost more to service, especially if the parts are not standard. ETA mvmts are reliable, precise, and less expensive to keep running. Seiko mvmts are usually throw-away, costing more to fix than to replace. Japanese reliability and cost versus Germanic cachet, luxury and innovation.
What about orient although their watches our in-house movements and go get the watch for as little as $75 on eBay and they are really very accurate
My Orient Star Classic is my best time keeper in my collection. It has been four months running and is just 15 seconds fast.
Steve Smith got to ov the accuracy of orient. Swatch may have made a mistake in denying the eta i think the oriental movements will take up the slack. Te greedyswiss movements are ot so superior to myota that they wont take over.
In house doesn't mean much in my opinion. Orient and Seiko make good low cost in house, eta are very reliable and easy to maintain and is often find in very expensive watches. Some in house are mostly "inspired" by other movements to the point it's pretty much a copy of old movement. It's not a big factor for me, in fact having to send a watch to the manufacturer to have it serviced is such a problem with some watches using in house movements that I favor eta over them.
Love Orient watches you can't go wrong with them!
Love my orients. Best bang for the buck but other than that, they are really fine timekeepers. I have an orient explorer timepiece many complications that out of the box gained only one sec a day unregulated.
Thats better than any of my swiss watches. I liked the quality so much i purchased the orient sun and moon. Fabulous many complications also pretty darn accurate.
I guess you could call me an orient fanboy...
I do think the future belongs to seiko though for mid high horology.
The grand seiko is a masterpiece. I just cant keep from looking at it.
Very nice.I agree .
You do lose snob appeal with an eta movement.
Very interestesting...
I have a 2892, in 20mm assembled
Fantastic.... 🤩🤩
ETA provides four different grades of their automatic calibres such as the 2824-2. These are STANDARD, ELABORATED, TOP, and CHRONOMETER grade. The grade used and further improved on by luxury watch brands, such as for example Breitling, is the CHRONOMETER grade. The chronometer movements are individually tested and certified by the independent Contrôle Officiel Suisse des Chronomètres (COSC) and all chronometer ETA movements have, for this purpose, individual serial numbers, whereas the lower grades do not. The COSC certification is an awfully expensive process and the chronometer grade ETAs are therefore considerably more expensive than the lower grades used by brands such as Hamilton, Tissot, and so on. For this reason and for the fact that the overall execution of luxury watches is considerably more precise and sophisticated, we cannot expect a luxury watch housing a chronometer grade ETA movement to cost the same as for example a Hamilton or a Tissot. I’m not a watchmaker but I am a passionate watch repair enthusiast, and of all the calibres I’ve worked on the ETAs have impressed me the most using very sophisticated and robust technologies. When you chose an ETA based watch, you’re guaranteed an extremely well tested, reliable, and accurate movement that any skilled watchmaker can service and repair which is a huge advantage for the consumer. I'd say unless we go for Patek, A. Lange & Söhne, and the likes, a chronometer grade ETA is one of the most solid choices we can make.
thanks for mentioning iwc or hublot as tooooo expensive. not long ago i was in the iwc shop at zurich bahnhofstrasse. there i tried the iwc 40mm mark xlll pilot watch with steal bracelet and ets 2824 movement. they sell this watch for 5400 swiss francs. what a joke if not insane...
Hey,
Thank you very much for the video. Good job :)
I would advice you to get a pop filter as well as a shock mount for your microphone. Don't get me wrong, the sound is good already, but those two will improve it even further and won't require a ton of money.
Just my two cents.
There are a ton of expensive brands that have used eta movements. Omega, Tudor, IWC etc
Think about service cost when you buy a mechanical watch...unless you plan on throwing it away when service is required.
People who can afford an expensive mechanical watches, the service costs might be their least concern.
If you have to worry about servicing a mechanical watch before you buy it than its not worth buying.
You can buy Seiko 5 for $70 and it has in-house movement (most likely Seiko 7S26), you can also buy Orient Bambino for $100 and it will also have an in-house movement (Orient F6722), so no need to pay thouthends of dollars for that.
The movements you described are very basic. What if I want things like hacking seconds, hand winding, a co-axial escapement and so on? You get what you pay for.
@@ivanlagrossemoule Not sure how does you wish for more sophisticated calibre contradict with the fact I stated before? I know those calibres are pretty simple but what would you expect from the watches below $100? I just said it's not compulsory to pay high dollar for the fact of in-house movement.
I avoid in-house because of service costs down the road. That said, an affordable in-house doesn't make sense, so you buy a watch and when it's time for service the service will cost more than what the watch is worth? That of course is just plain stupid, so i don't share your enthusiasm for the more affordable in-house movements, because the service cost will still be crazy high and often involve sending the watch overseas and often a very long wait too.
Tag Heuer is a lot less expensive than Hublot or IWC but you still focus your comments on the aquaracer, which is damn near cheap compared to the IWC and Hublot, sometimes I don't get the weird hate against TH AT ALL. Plus for their more expensive models TAG uses in-house movements, and above that they also make some truly amazing movements such as a Tourbillion, the mikrogirder etc that totally shits all over MANY high end brands, such as Rolex for example. But of course you had to shit on TH, just odd. The difference in price between an Aquaracer and those small micro-brands you talk about could easily be justified by brand value, history and even finish. Plus TH will still be around in 10, 20 or 30 years time.
Well some affordable in-house watches like from Orient or Seiko are just really good watches, or have great sentimental value.
But I agree, a watch should be one that you feel is worth servicing (rather than just buying a new one, if it's that cheap).
The major difference between ETA and in house is the service.On exemple, The in house Tudor have a much higher service cost than ETA.
I got a nice automatic. it may be China but it is very good I have had no problems with it. and I got it from ebay very very cheap price
Thanks. Great information!.
.......I think Rolex still makes ETA-based movements, if Im not mistaken.
ETA movements are mostly cheaper and easier to get serviced as well, and spare parts are more readily available.
Very helpful thanks.
New subscriber here and thoroughly enjoyed this vid. Thanks for uploading it, it was very informative
Thanks!And glad you found my channel :)
Regards
GAW
Why not mention Sea-Gull? They have a huge chunk of the market for mechanical movements and are even more affordable than ETA movements. Not swiss-made, but they are used even in some Swiss watches.
When an ETA is in a Tissot it is an in-house movement, does this make Tissot better than a non-Swatch Group watch that has an ETA movement: of course not because it is the same movement. In house means nothing, Only the quality of the movement has meaning. The Tudors with the ETA have better movements than the in house ones and are cheaper.
And easier to service...any watchmaker can service an ETA
In Tudor's case the ETA movement also allowed the case to be a little thinner. Really no real world benefit to the in-house movement that I can see.
Is ETA g10.211 serviceable? I heard they aren't serviceable.
good video. inhouse movements are overrated and watches with such movements are almost always far to expensive..
how we can tell what grade is the ETA movement? As what I know, the ETA movement have four grade, standard, elabore, top, and COSC grade. sometimes I don't know how to differentiate those movement.
+Eric Kksheng
If the manufacturer does not tell you what grade the movement have, assume it's standard or in some cases elebore. If it's Top grade the manufacturer will tell you and advertise it's a Top grade movement. COSC grade is just a COSC certified Top movement.
Regards
GAW
GreatAffordableWatches thanks for your reply.
A 2824 elaboré does not have special parts. It’s simply a 2824 that has been adjusted for accuracy.
Elaboré = basic eta 2824 + decoration
Top = better components
Cosc = Top + regulated
Why no mention of the Vostok Amphibia in house movement? Very affordable and accurate?
no Seagull or Vostok. I suppose these are not considered by people with a lot of money.
However they are easy to regulate and service service and cheap to get and replace parts and whole movements.
Rave on.
Watches are luxury products. By definition you will almost always overpay for a nice watch. So, I don't really mind ETA movements, as long as the watch doesn't have a display back.
Hello GAW, I'm wondering if you give advice on a watch I own. It was passed down to me from my Dad, and I know very little about the world of watches.
I love ETA movements they are reliable.But sadly all watch makers now have to do in-house movements.
Very interesting clip. This guy knows definitely what he's talking about. I had a crazy watch interest before but it has calmed down since I opened te door to High End replicas from Taiwan. I have seen Rolex and Vacheron high end replicas that even their own AD's (authorized dealer's) have written "Warranty of Authenticity" on fake AP, Rolex's and even a Vacheron Constantine. You otta ne very very careful today with expensive watches
Mario X if an AD opens the watch and still doesn’t know wtf he is looking at then I would run for the hills.
Seagull is the most used mechanical movement in the watch industry today
If I buy a BMW I expect it to have a BMW engine. Most overpriced Swiss watches are not produced by watchmakers, but watch DESIGNERS with a generic movement dropped in. Fine if that's your thing, but give me a Vostok with an in-house movement anyday.
DavidUKesb as someone who has handled hundreds of vostoks, bought, sold and given them away (I still own around 20 of then) I would choose the overpriced Swiss watch with the generic Swiss movement every day of the week, twice on a Sunday.
I own a Vostok and also an Omega Seamaster Aqua Terra with an ETA quartz movement. I definitely, definitely choose the latter.
DavidUKesb vostok has an awful movement and is horribly inaccurate. And comparing a car engine to a watch movement is a false equivalency. An engine is key to the driving experience, the watch movement benefits are murky at best. They don't keep time better, nor are more reliable. It is a marketing term to get you to spends more money for some "mysterious benefit". Even the author of this video is not making a convincing argument.
Except you wouldn't mind buying a Volkswagen with a BMW engine or would you? Still better than a in-house VW engine. And that's exactly what ETA does, give VW kind of watches the engine of a BMW
+DavidUKesb Not a good argument. An car engine gives you tremendous driving experience. Driving a BMW is totally different to driving a Skoda! The performance of the engines can be felt greatly. But what does a Patek do to you that a Seiko can't do? Though there may be some slight differences, these very small differences are tremendously zoomed and exaggerated beyond proportion by marketing!
of course inhouse movement doesn't mean better but it says a lot about brend, is watchmaking what they are really capable of doing or it's just business... thats all
Very informative. Thanks!
This is a very helpful video and I am sure it will assist others make prudent decisions.
Thanks, appreciate your comment!
Regards
GAW
Riktigt bra video! :D
Douglas Ahlberg Brå skit mannen
Some useful information, good video
Is ETA selling watch movements to companies (other brands) outside of Swatch group. Planning to start a microbrand in India. Appreciate your help
Really ? What's the progress ?
swatch group announced that they stop selling parts to other watch manufectures' acoording to this how Tudor watches with ETA movm' will be served?
Great video. Totally agree with you.
Thanks for letting me understand these.
I have a Seiko SKX and Alpanist, obviously in-house movements, I have a Tissot Ballade 3 and 2018 Seastar 1000, all 4 are within +- 6 secounds a day, so they keep great time in my opinion, finish is flawless on all 4 watched, as good as my Omega or Rolex, especially the Tissot, but oh not, the Tissot doesn't have an in house movement, well I have news for you, I think it does, Swatch owns both Tissot and ETA. Moral of the story is, look beyond all the BS and enjoy what you enjoy for the pure reason of enjoyment, not all the BS watch snobbery.
No mention of Vostok or Seagull in house movements
It's not if ETA is better or worse than in house. Anyone selling an ETA watch for $3000 and considerably higher are talking the Mick . Why do people stupidly buy them
Excellent video!
Thanks for that....very informative.
What about Seiko? They make everything in-house.
TLDR; In-house is movement that is made by the brand themselves. ETA are made by movement manufacturer whose widely used.
I have automatic watch but idk which movement it have. It have sweeping hand and power reserve is about 40hrs. One thing i noticed close to spring it have TC engraving. Can you help what it is? Thanks
Well explained. Thanks.
The more sophisticated 2892 will hold up better with in house movements than the workhorse 2824
So the only problem with ETA is that they can be mass produced and are actually cheaper?
dam good video..finally someone spoke the truth about the value.. Thanks
The difference of the ETA movements vs in house, is like comparing a Mercedes vs Ford. They both are functional, but a Ford is not luxury.
More like Bentley vs Mercedes except that in-house doesn't automatically mean better performance or robustness, just more exclusivity. It took Omega two decades to fix their coaxial and there are other examples of companies struggling with bugs in their movements.