When I bought my Seamaster I really cared about in house. Because it was my first true luxury watch I just wanted it to tick a bunch of boxes -- ceramic bezel, interesting dial, display caseback, in-house, etc. Then I bought an IWC and didn't care as much because it wasn't occupying that space in my mind. It was just a watch I liked and the stakes really weren't that high. I'm seriously considering a Quartz Solar Cartier as my next watch now. Over time I've realised that you should just buy the watch you like and that this stuff isn't as important as it seems.
Yes yes. I had a similar evolution of thought. Almost killed myself trying to buy the perfect first watch. Now its just a lot easier to buy a watch because I just like it.
You seemed to have a great point going and then you lost all credibility. You went from comparing a ferarri to a slightly cheaper ferrari and then randomly it seems said you are seriously considering a electric tesla. This discussion is about inhouse movements vs mainstream automatic movements. There is no rhyme or reason to anything you are saying. IWC has just as expensive and in house movements as omega. Quartz and automatic watches aren't even comparable, I would rather have an automatic seiko as opposed to your solar cartier, just so I can see the movement, just so I can maintain it and wind it. So you went from a luxury brand with inhouse movements, to a luxury brand with inhouse movements but you didn't care as much???? Now you are considering a solar watch. Maybe you should just buy a fit bit.
@@mad0uche Take a deep breath lol. Taste and priorities change over time with this hobby. All he’s saying is not to let the movement stop you from getting a watch that you might like.
Speaking from my understanding, one of the main reasons why we love watches is sentimentality and romanticization. If we were into function alone, we'd take quartz over mechanical any day. But the whole thing about in-house movements simply add to the romanticized perception we have with our watches. It's not what we 'see' when we look at the watch, but more of what we 'know' when we look at it. For example, the knowing of the fact that Seiko was the innovative underdog that contributed so much to the industry is the reason why the brand will always have a huge fan-base. We all relate to the underdogs in one way or another. We feel for them. So the in-house debate, especially when it's regarding the more affordable end of the spectrum (Seiko, Orient etc.), I think that's what it's mostly about. Our over-romanticized perception of the underdog brand and the awe towards their innovations, expertise and achievements (even if their caliber is below the luxury standard). (I've already said this on the Facebook group, but wanted to add it to the discussion here)
Great video Teddy! I definitely feel I have been a bit biased in my initial watch passion and journey to in-house movements, but it’s important to see how ETA and other 3rd party movements can actually be a great choice for many users. Very informative and helpful as usual!
Vostok is more “in house” than Tudor, that means nothing. The real contest is good vs bad movements, a well engineered, refined and accurate calibre is what separates horology from jewellery or fashion items.
I believe what all watch owners want, whether it be Rolex or Vostok, a reliable movement, that works. Better quality of materials & workmanship is a nice bonus
@@topelzmrzovalnik I respect your opinion, but I just can’t see the appeal of cheap, utilitarian mechanical watches. I think that when the movement means nothing you’d be better served by a quartz.
Having an inhouse movement (or not having one) would not be a deciding factor for me personally. I'd rather have a watch with an external movement that offers the desired accuracy and functionality over an inhouse movement that may not have that- or maybe it would have it, but be much more expensive. That being said, I do think brands should be transparent about their movements, giving consumers the option to make their own considerations. Some people do value inhouse, others don't- but everybody values transparency.
Ohhhh MATE! I’m working on a video about this right now!! Theo and Harris recently did sometjing quote similar as well which inspired me. I really appreciated your take Teddy! Balanced and informative as always!
LOL - I'm in this video! I posted the "Why isn't 100m water resistance standard at this point?" thread on the Watchuseek clip at 2:22. Great content as always Teddy!
TEDDY la qualité de ton contenu est magnifique. Continue ton beau travail c'est un plaisir de te suivre sur ta chaîne. From a french fan from Montréal Canada
Ted did a great job explaining the in house movements. I could not disagree with anything he said. He is very thorough and fair of his incite into all of the movements that are out there. Very well done explanation. Keep up the great work
GREAT discussion. Watches are by mature technical and we deserve to have more direct technical discussions. The current Omega coaxial calibres all go back to a base 2892- nothing wrong with that. Plenty of brand new "in house" movements can have incredible teething pains. I would strongly recommend that you bring in a watchmaker for some "under the hood" discussions from their perspective.
I dont mind 3rd party movements , just as long as the price reflects this . In house movements are generally better due to purpose and innovations to improve specs. In house movements also show the capability of a manufacturer, just as long as its not just a heavily modified existing design
One of the best bang for buck in house movements is Baume and Mercier Baumatic 80hr Power Reserve Ton of value for the price and some stunning watches without insane price gouging
Wow. This is very insightful. Great videos! I think a portion of the customers who are against third part movement is because some brands like hublot, panerai, and frank muller charge extraneous premium for their extremely low cost movement. Other than that, I think most ppl will be fine spending 3-5k on a quality watch with eta movement.
Finally, someone who talks about a difficult topic in luxury watches. I have tried to explain to friends who want to buy an automatic watch that they must pay attention to what it will cost to own the watch in terms of service and insurance. Many people become too concerned about whether the watch has an in-house movement without fully understanding what it really means. I really liked the video. Hope first time buyers see this so they can make a better choice.
Great video. You kind of talked about it, but I think people who value in-house movements fall into 2 camps. The first is in-house is better because of the prestige/commitment from the brand. The second is people prefer in-house movements because they are better for the watch than any available third party movement available, whether that is because it has increased power reserve, shock/magnetic residence, or because the geometry is better for the watch design, like Nomos positioning the date wheels for their in-house movements to match the design of the watch. I am definitely in the latter camp, but I understand the former
Christopher Ward's magazine Loupe just did an article about this as well, and came to many of the same conclusions. "In-house" is a marketing term that people have fallen for... My CWs with Sellita movements, or my Damasko with an ETA, are better than Seikos at the same price range. My old Chevy Colorado had a Mitsubishi alternator... It didn't make the truck bad, or not Chevy, it was just an expert part from a reputable manufacturer. GM openly advertises Allison transmissions in their heavy duty trucks for the same reason.
Well said, my ZL1 has a Tremec transmission as do most high performance high powered cars for its ability to handle so much horsepower and this is proudly advertised. Tremec specializes in high performance transmissions its all they do so GM decided to defer to the specialists and give their clients a high quality reliable transmission in their Higher performance Camaro’s and Corvettes. Ask Ford Mustangs GT owners about their “In House Manufactured” transmission wowes. My point being “In House Manufactured” doesn’t always mean better. I do appreciate the R and D and additional time to manufacture the movement in house so that will obviously increase the cost of the watch which is understandable but there is nothing wrong with a tried tested and proven reliable movement that has been outsourced and often times adjusted to the current watch manufacturers specifications prior to being put into their watch…….sorry for another car analogy but…..Toyota Supra which is a BMW Z4 but Toyota has arguably made it an even better overall car/driving experience.
The snob value being attached to "in house" movements is a heaven-sent opportunity for manufacturers to capture a revenue stream that would previously have gone to independent watchmakers. If Comco hadn't placed restrictions on ETA, things might be different. In any event we are where we are, but I totally concur, Teddy, with your sentiments about people demonising ETA movements. The 2824 and 2892 are and were very fine movements that need no apologies. For context, I own watches with ETA, Valjoux, Zenith, Rolex and Omega movements, so I've no particular torch to carry for ETA. Great video on a topic that does deserve more debate.
Well put! As you also seem to have some first hand experience with those big names pf movements, may I ask which one has impressed you the most? I've heard people say Zeniths are quite remarkable, but I wonder if it's truly noticeable next to Rolex and Omega.
@@raven_of_zoso455 Rolex's movements probably have the best combination of accuracy, reliability and serviceability. But the 2892,2824 and 7750 are all very sound movements. The El Primero is a fine movement, but then so is a Rolex 4130. In general, in my experience, the most troublesome part of movements generally are the autowind systems, but then they are a heavily stressed component given that you are cantilevering a relatively heavy weight off a relatively small post/bearing system. I'm not really a fan of exhibition casebacks, so movement decoration doesn't really matter and personally, it's all about functionality for me.
@@costelloandsilke7321 thanks for a very informative answer! Yes, I too think ETA movements takes more crap than they deserve. Especially for someone who's life isn't on the line if the watch is not 99,9% accurate of what's possible. Service costs is something I do take into consideration when looking at new watches, but how much that factor weight in obviously vary depending what else the watch has to offer. Also, I see you mentioned El Primero and Rolex 4130 there, two movements I which I think share a very interesting story of how complex it is to make a automatic cronograph movement. My only crono is mechanical, nothing more fancy than a Seagull, but the fact that it is a mechanical column wheel crono in a $250 watch is kinda crazy in its own way. As a true wristwatch rookie (still on a budget) this watch has brought me so much joy for the vast and wonderful world of horology.
This was the best explanation video ever. This ideas have been rolling around in my head for years. Thank you for putting this together. I am really interested in a Tudor that only has an eta movement, which kind of bugged me till now. I also did some research on the forums and found out that the service of the eta by tudor cost way less than their more modern movements, so now I’m good with this!🎉
The only movement I have ever had crap out on me was a Valjoux 7750. Cost me $350 to repair and now all is well in the universe. I think the benefit of a big name movement is that it is easier to get it repaired vs an in-house movement that could require expensive “in-house” repairs.
Beware falsely advertised service costs! Lange advertise $1450 for a full movement 'overhaul', service and replacement of defective parts on a time only piece. However, they claim the case could have been opened on my preowned watched, thats a blanket cost of €3,500, regardless of the mint condition. They won't work on it for anything less. Either the much lauded Lange service is outright falsely advertised or they hide the real costs of a true service.
Teddy, you've always been a fine analyst and a wise voice to all of us, but you've really stepped up the depth and originality of your content. It's exciting to watch you grow!
A very well articulated view Teddy, I can't argue with a single point you made. U used to get a tad annoyed when someone berates a watch that has a 3rd party movement but frankly I do not care anymore. It's also worth mentioning that some watch manufacturers take the time to regulate an assembled ebauche while others do not to the same degree. If I like a watch and can justify/afford it I'm not overly bothered what movement resides within. The decision may take into account any known issues with certain movements though including in house issues.
The in-house thing often makes me laugh - like it’s a luxury badge of honour. Same people seem to forget that Vostock, Seiko, Orient etc are significantly more ‘in-house’ in nearly every way than your mid-luxury Swiss/German stuff. Spending 1k more for the same watch from an Oris or Tudor because it has an in-house over the previous Selita is simply showing you have more money than sense. But each to their own of course!
At the same time, I was looking at that 1k new Chinese Tourbillon watch YT video, when they show the movement finishing under magnification, for cheap it is and quite a good price for the feature, it cannot match the beautiful movement finishing a more expensive watch will bring. Sure, it's a 1 to 20 (and more) price ratio and It's out of reach for many anyway but what is great with the watch world is that you can really enjoy a few of them' for wearing or collecting, in almost any budget category...
It is called having a taste, everybody has their own opinions and perceptions. Looks aren't all to having a watch for me. It is history and movements also play a role. It is simple you pay more because there is more effort put into that watch. Buying jewellery and spending money on hobbies rarely makes sense.
most important things for me in a watch is value, reliability and repairability. don't care much about in-house or 3rd party. if i had the funds, i wouldn't mind paying for a simple patek, for say $50k. But if that same watch takes $13k to service, forget it. the same thinking translates to a $500 hamilton or a $50 casio.
Excellent video and explanation of the in-house movement vs third party movement. I really don’t care if it’s a in-house movement or third party movement when I’m buying a watch, I care about it’s capabilities, reliability and ease of service. Keep the good work my friend!
I recently purchased a Breitling Superocean that uses the Breitling 17 caliber which is ETA 2824-2 and a certified chronometer. During the purchase, I had the opportunity to see and try the Tudor Black Bay 58, which is really a great watch with an in-house movement, but the feeling I had when I put on the Breitling is something special (probbably ceramic bezel) I have been using it daily for three months now and I have to admit that I was surprised by how extremely accurate and precise it is.
Teddy - thanks for dealing with this issue. I’m looking to get a mechanical watch and I keep coming across this very issue. I feel like ease of serviceability is a big deal. I’m seeing lots of ETA based movements in my price range and was getting hung up on them not being in house movements. You put my mind at ease.
I enjoy putting watches together I am no watch maker but enjoy modding and create one off's even if the world wants to call them "Franken's" they are for me. The point is that I have been using the new PT5000 from H.K. Precision Technology (HKPT). From the factory they are better regulated than an ETA and run (in my 3 builds) at 2-5 seconds a day.
I think a premium ETA movement timepiece. is just as good as a Rolex in-house movement timepiece is. I have a Steinhard GMT and a Rolex GMT. The Steinhard runs 2+ sec per day. The rolex Loses -4 Sec per day. They both run consistently for years. Only the price difference is 10,000K. I believe ETA makes the best timepieces
True. I have just bought the latest Ceramic Hydroconquest (with the L888.3 movement, not even the COSC certified L888.4) and the average I got at the watch service shop was minus 1-1.5 sec/day (!!)... this is indeed Rolex standard yet it's ""just"" a modified ETA. I am not sure what ETA do specifically at the Longines HQ, but it works.
@@ziksy6460 A decorated top ETA movement looks waaaaaaaay better than a Rolex movement. In fact a decorated ETA can look almost (almost) as good as a JLC, and that’s very high praise.
@@istvantoth7431 The Longines is Hydroconquest Are Rolex Subs Killers, And many top brands use ETA movements . they still remain accessible in price. a Rolex AP Patek is not for everyone. And as terry said Overpriced/Overrated. Are the very expensive in-house brands movements
I have had Rolexes, Omegas, a Breitling, Seikos, Balls, Zodiacs, Edoxes, and a Yema. The most durable and best performing were the Selida movements in my Ball watches. But, honestly, all the ones I mentioned, with the exception of the Edox watches I used to have (they were older collectible watches), were pretty much comparable. Yes, that includes the Seikos, of which I had everything from Turtles to the MM300. The main difference seems to be that anything with the ETA style movements are MUCH more convenient and cheaper to have worked on. The Grand Seiko movements in the MM300 and my Uemara edition 6105 reissue are just as much a PITA as my current Omega; the cheaper 4R35 are much more cost effective to simply replace rather than get serviced.
Very useful. Third party movements are the way. I have good experiences with third party and also in house. My own choice would be third party, and my favorite is Sellita. The rest is a good finished case and a good strap. First i look at when i want a watch? Which eta or Sellita is used. Independent become more important for me, i have two and i am surprised how really good they are. Really surprising that for a bargain really good watches are available.
The most important for me when buying a watch, are accuracy and power reserve, so first I look after a design I like, then I dig into the specs and retain only those matching with my whims, COSC preferably, and 60h minimum, then no matter if in house or 3rd part movements.
I started collecting, and really getting into watches just a few months ago. I just wanted to say thanks for such a clear and comprehensive education. This is one of many videos I've watched now. For that alone I'll always keep you in mind when purchasing.
I own an IWC Mark XVIII and ppl say "oh thats a Selita blah" ... so yea what's up? It's running fine and and it's a fair looking watch! So let me and my Mark XVIII be, and bugger off please.
A fantastic edition, TB. Strong agreement with nearly every point made. I now add an anecdotal: I own a Longines Record, its movement is denominated L 888.4, we all know its a modified ETA 2824, but its modified, from SwatchWorld (just like Longines) and a certified chronometer. It is supremely accurate (5 secs/month typical when used every day) and pretty to boot (display caseback). Three years ago i got caught wearing it in a torrential downpour while on horseback, it got damp inside. The emergency servicing cost me less than U$100. Is it in-house? I don't know, you decide. Is it better than some in-house movements I own? Way better! Do i want to see an L888.4 in a $10k watch? No, I'd want more artisanal finishing, know-how etc. Would i buy a $10k watch with an in-house movement to replace or upgrade it. No, i'd be wasting my money. Very pleased you highlighted Longines as an example of a mid-level maker that's got the right attitude and balance. After all, as you imply this is more about marketing and prestige/luxury than whether the movement is accurate or pleasing to the eye.
Often people miss the point of having a watch that you simply enjoy. If you are buying and wearing a watch to impress others, you don’t have a standing with me.
Great diversity in content, Teddy. Personally, I only have 2 watches (Rolex Explorer 124270 and Nomos Orion 309) but I consider servicing when I’m looking at watches. I think folks who are new to the hobby and have 10+ watches aren’t thinking about long term costs and practicality (‘luxury’ - I know). On the flip side, what separates watches apart from one another even more so than aesthetics, is the movement. That’s what makes most upstart micro brands less appealing to me - just shells with identical movements and such. Interesting conversation all the same though, thanks again!
>just shells with identical movements and such. You must hate modern cars. What separates a Porsche Cayenne from an Audi Q7? A Chevy Tahoe from a Cadillac Escalade? A BMW Z4 from a Toyota Supra? It's all about window dressing. Why oh why don't they have iN hOuSe dRiVeTrAiNs!!!
I bought 2 Christopher Ward watches; each has a Sellita movement. As we know Sellita is a Swiss made off the shelf movement. I love the brand. Both my watches are well engineered accurate and attractive. As we know, Tudor uses or used some Sellita movements. You have to judge for yourself what is good value for money.
Great video. I’ve also started to see the term ‘Manufacturer Movement’ as a half way movement to fully in house. Personally I love non in house movements where they make sense. Take the Superocean 57. The ETA is perfect in that watch because it keeps the design slim, if Breitling used the B01 it would be too thick and the proportions would be all wrong…plus cheaper servicing so win/ win
I watched a video of the service/restoration of a vintage Vacheron Constantin and although the movement is a piece of art, you'd truly have to be very well off to be able to afford to service or repair such a thing of beauty (let alone buy!) 🤩
When I'm asked for recommendations for a watch, I ask them not only a budget for the watch but what are they willing to pay for service. I just had a JLC Reverso that cost me $830.00 to service. I knew that when I purchased it. Most people I know would be more than satisfied with an ETA, Valjoux or Unitas movement. What I detest is... my Blah, blah, blah is just as good as your high horology piece. The GO SeaQ Pano with the 36-13 movement is something I love to look at and it is amazingly accurate. I always get a kick out of people that poo poo peoples passions as stupid while justifying their own. Good presentation.
Beware falsely advertised service costs! Lange advertise $1450 for a full movement 'overhaul', service and replacement of defective parts on a time only piece. However, they claim the case could have been opened on my preowned watched, thats a blanket cost of €3,500, regardless of the mint condition. They won't work on it for anything less. Either the much lauded Lange service is outright falsely advertised or they hide the real costs of a true service.
I went through that phase of collecting back in the 1980's. Yeah...it was nice wearing my Exp II....I had a Sub also...but I hated the black bezel & dial with white numerals. But...it was a work requirement....yeah..there is an explanation... but I don't want to explain it! Once I moved out and worked on my own, the Sub was sold and my Exp II was my daily until I started having problems with the movement ( which happened after the warranty was up! ) I wore my two Seiko's for the longest time...for work...and a G Shock the rest of the time. Today....at 64 years old, I just wear what I like...which are larger watches! I am 6'6" and have a 23 cm wrist. So I prefer a 47 to 52 mm watch, why...because it looks like a normal sized watch on my wrist. As long as I like it...that's all I care about!
I avoid so many problems and headaches buying something simple as quartz Casio... I am very lucky to be actually happy with just a simple Casio watch..
Just bought an in house movement watch that stopped after a couple of days and I had to send to it the service. Then again, had mass produced movements that needed some service quite quickly too, I guess it depends on the quality after all..
Man... had to puase the video just to appreciate and thank for the beautiful macros in all your videos. Great way to appreciate the details with cinematographic feeling to it.
Personally it doesn't bother me if it's in house. I buy watches realistically by sight, If I find a watch attractive I will buy it and as long as the movement runs reliably it shouldn't matter.
I understand the allure of in-house, but I gotta say having a Sellita SW-200 in my Oris Diver 65 has been great. My watch guy has parts for it in his shop and it performs spectacularly: typically better than +/- 4 secs per day. There’s a lot to be said for a solid in-house.
I frequently see this question posted on different watch forums. Teddy, you've explained it so well and so thoroughly that from now I'm just going to link this video for the OP. This video along with your recent "How To Tell If A Watch Is Well-Made" are invaluable to those new to the world of high-end watches.
I have both in house and third party movements in my collection. Including ETA in a Hamilton and Miota in a microbrand. I have two watches that have in-house movements but are widely available and can be serviced through a network of ADs. However, I have ordered a third that I will have to send back to the manufacturer I did consider this in my decision to purchase. I enjoy all of my watches and do not look down on those with third party movements as I am an enthusiast. I found this an interesting discussion. I would like more discussions like this.
For me if the movement is from a movement manufacturer owned by the mother company like ETA for Swatch group or Val Flourier for Richemont group, that passes as in house. I think there are different grades of in house and this is the entry level to be classified as in house.
Thank you Teddy , about this subject . I think what makes difficult is that it is subjective but you knocked out the park . The reason I brought my Sinn 556i was because of the anti magnetic components , 26 jewels which help with friction , 20 bar , the extra decoration . The movement is 3rd party selita of the ETA but as good in my experience . So there for alot of watch for the money ( partly German engineering )
Hi Teddy. A great follow up video on this topic could be a closer look and discussion around the Damasko DS30 vs the new DK30. It is more or less identical watches with the new DK30 being with a in house movement instead of a ETA 2824 in the DS30.
Great video Teddy!! I think inhouse is too vague of a term. How about inhouse modified, and I don't just mean the rotor. Like you mentioned the Nomos alpha caliber.. they manufacture the components and assemble in house, but they clearly didn't design the movement architecture. They modified it, to add the hacking function though too. Weiss did a similar thing with their 1003 caliber, which is ETA based but manufactured, finished and assembled by Cameron. His movement also added a very slick hacking function the 6497 ETA didn't have.
I have 10 mechanical watches and only 2 have eta chronographs the rest is Tudor grand seikos and high end seikos, heuer 02 and Blancpain 1315 I worry about the cost of the in house movement so that’s a point to consider which is maintenance cost of mechanical pieces.
Hey Teddy, great video and very informative. Do you remember a while ago an author that called himself "The Watch Snob"? I had this perspective of "Only In-House or Nothing", much to the influence of this author. As I grew up, I realized that for the country I am located in, its best to have third party movements, as they are easily serviceable. Also, as I gained interest in Micro-brands, this became much more common.
I'm naturally skeptical of what I hear from TH-cam content creators, especially if they look too young to have ever had a watch serviced, and especially-especially if they sell watches, too. But with each new video, Baldassarre pulls further ahead of the pack. When my colleagues tell me they're thinking of buying their first luxury watch, I'll send them to his channel without hesitation.
This reminds me of small car companies like Lotus. A lot of time they use Toyota motors. If they designed, and built their own motor it would be extremely expensive, but not only that you would have to take it to a Lotus dealer to have it Serviced, and it would be very expensive, but pretty much any shop in the world can work on a Toyota.
Lotus used to make their own motors in the 70s and 80s - the 907. It was also supplied to Jensen-Healey early in its life and it's unreliability was meant to be part of the demise of Jenson. It became reliable later in life.
That movement from Glasshutte sure was gorgeous. I paused to look more closely just because it was so beautiful. I'd pay extra for that if I had the money.
Look at Tudor… so many youtube videos on new Tudor movements failing; and the owners had to send it back to HQ (for the tudor 58 ceramic, as Hong Kong had no parts). In house to me means reliability. Thats key.
Is Tudors really in-house? It’s made by a company owned by the Rolex/Tudor corp. like saying Hamilton is in-house as it’s swatch owned (who also who own ETA). Tudors in-house is much like many others - it’s meh. It adds nothing new to the prior ETAs used - all marketing and extra RRP.
One aspect that might be interesting to some is the guaranty. Breitling for example offers 2 years on their ETA movements and I think 5 years on their "in house" movements.
Thank you Teddy… very good subject. You always find the best topics. It’s true that some years ago we were more about the design without any interest of in house movement or not… now the first question we ask: “ is it an in house movement…” no? Then it’s too expensive for an ETA or….
When looking for watches I get more interested in the ones that I feel that are special. A watch can be special by having a great story, by having a new function, by having an in house movement and etc. If the movement is 100% in house or not, it doesn't matter to me as long as it feel special. 2 examples: -Damasko makes a movement that is heavily inspired by ETA's 2824 but it has some improvements to make it more durable. For me this is much nicer than an in house movement that doesn't bring any innovation. -Doxa's divers, although equiped with ETA's 2824, have a great history of innovation helping shape how divers are made nowadays and feel very special for me.
Another solution would be to get a grand seiko quartz and you have a very good inhouse movement thats good to go for 50 year lifespan with battery changes only.
Once again a great topic presentation! Please continue with the excellent content with well balanced points of discussion. You are quickly becoming my top reasoned source for most things that are timepiece related. Thanks!
Great video....the reason i bought my tudor was the 70 hr reserve and being titanium...i work in restaurants and needed a watch that would take a beating
In my own experience, inhouse movements are usually a hassle, because they tend to be more expensive to repair and can't be repaired by your local watchmaker that often as an ETA can. Also i own a both of them and ETA seems to be the more precise and longlasting.
These refined state of man's hand finessed machines are much in need of respect for this is state of the art expression, High beat with that smooth second hand swing, faces always of character and a strength of character toned in time, application and production...Rembrandt on a grain of rice.
*_I look for performance, period. Decoration and “fine finishing” are nice (of course) but I see accurate timekeeping ON THE WRIST as the priority above everything. All my watches, which include Seikos from a 7S26 up to GS, Orient, Rolex and several Swiss brands with ETA engines (2824 and Powermatic 80) run within COSC on the wrist. This matters above anything, especially “in house” designed and or manufactured._*
Great Video. I own 3 in-house movements watches. Not so expensive as your downside list says :) All are Orient watches with their in-house movements. All are simple, workhorses all very accurate.
Great video, Teddy and great discussion! I actually keep tossing around in my head if the ETA movements used in Hamilton, Longines, or other similar Swatch brands aren't actually basically in-house anyway? Swatch is making those pieces and then aligning them to the brand and their own watchmaker, ETA, is making the movements for them and often spec'd specifically for those brands. It's pretty well in-house just done on a huge scale in my mind. Omega is obviously a special case within the watch group (pun alert). I think what people are really talking about these days in the in-house debates is almost more of a discussion around "artisan" production versus mass production. Feels like a similar argument to me. Curious to hear your thoughts!
A really good video and the key word used many times is value. How do people perceive value (what they will pay, residuals, prestige etc, etc) and how the manufacturer delivers value to consumers, but also to their bottom line and shareholders, is the question. I built an ETA 7750 recently from a kit parts Swiss supplier and it sits in the same box as Breitlings that cost 5+ times as much. Two of these have the same movement, so why the difference - brand equity of course. When I show it to people and explain what the cost would be for a branded watch, their jaws drop. Seiko supplies somewhat industrial movements which if ‘dressed up’ with rotor polishing and some better bridge/plate finishing could increase the perceived value of their watches.
Great video. I honestly don’t care what movement is in the watch…in house or not. If I like the watch, I buy it. Movement has never been a factor for me.
Inhouse also means it is MANUFACTURED by the company, not just designed and assembled by them. There are ( so called ) Inhouse movements that are supplied by someone else. Tudor's " inhouse " movements are made by Kenissi, for example. In reality, there are relatively few manufacturers that truly make everything inhouse these days.
I've got watches with both an in-house movement and a modified 3rd party. The in-house is in my Orient Ray 2, and works fine. The modified 3rd party is an ETA Valjoux 7750 in my Longines Grand Vittesse. Whatever the mods they did and regulations it's had, they nailed it, it's running about +1.5 s/d. Like over the course of a 31 day month, it only gained 43 seconds or so. I got mad love for ETA. And knowing I can get it serviced for less than a simple 3-hand in-house movement in another watch is extra nice!
“Logic and luxury rarely intersect” My non-watch obsessed friends like to remind me of this often lol
@Chubby Monkey ya true..But I bet you're having way more fun
Hear ye hear ye
Lol. Those friends are missing out 😎
It’s a powerful phrase
When I bought my Seamaster I really cared about in house. Because it was my first true luxury watch I just wanted it to tick a bunch of boxes -- ceramic bezel, interesting dial, display caseback, in-house, etc. Then I bought an IWC and didn't care as much because it wasn't occupying that space in my mind. It was just a watch I liked and the stakes really weren't that high. I'm seriously considering a Quartz Solar Cartier as my next watch now. Over time I've realised that you should just buy the watch you like and that this stuff isn't as important as it seems.
Fully agree with u. Unless u r the type of collector that r going for the movements then that is another story.
Yes yes. I had a similar evolution of thought. Almost killed myself trying to buy the perfect first watch. Now its just a lot easier to buy a watch because I just like it.
IWC makes in house movements. And their ETA based movements are so heavily modified that the only part IWC uses are the base plate.
You seemed to have a great point going and then you lost all credibility. You went from comparing a ferarri to a slightly cheaper ferrari and then randomly it seems said you are seriously considering a electric tesla. This discussion is about inhouse movements vs mainstream automatic movements. There is no rhyme or reason to anything you are saying. IWC has just as expensive and in house movements as omega. Quartz and automatic watches aren't even comparable, I would rather have an automatic seiko as opposed to your solar cartier, just so I can see the movement, just so I can maintain it and wind it. So you went from a luxury brand with inhouse movements, to a luxury brand with inhouse movements but you didn't care as much???? Now you are considering a solar watch. Maybe you should just buy a fit bit.
@@mad0uche Take a deep breath lol. Taste and priorities change over time with this hobby. All he’s saying is not to let the movement stop you from getting a watch that you might like.
This is one of your best videos! More content like this please.
Thank you! Appreciate you for watching.
@@TeddyBaldassarre Agreed, please talk more about the "Smoke and Mirrors" of the industry, lots to talk about there
Speaking from my understanding, one of the main reasons why we love watches is sentimentality and romanticization. If we were into function alone, we'd take quartz over mechanical any day. But the whole thing about in-house movements simply add to the romanticized perception we have with our watches.
It's not what we 'see' when we look at the watch, but more of what we 'know' when we look at it. For example, the knowing of the fact that Seiko was the innovative underdog that contributed so much to the industry is the reason why the brand will always have a huge fan-base. We all relate to the underdogs in one way or another. We feel for them. So the in-house debate, especially when it's regarding the more affordable end of the spectrum (Seiko, Orient etc.), I think that's what it's mostly about.
Our over-romanticized perception of the underdog brand and the awe towards their innovations, expertise and achievements (even if their caliber is below the luxury standard).
(I've already said this on the Facebook group, but wanted to add it to the discussion here)
"Logic and luxury rarely intersect". Great quote.
Great video Teddy! I definitely feel I have been a bit biased in my initial watch passion and journey to in-house movements, but it’s important to see how ETA and other 3rd party movements can actually be a great choice for many users. Very informative and helpful as usual!
My man is here 😍
Vostok is more “in house” than Tudor, that means nothing. The real contest is good vs bad movements, a well engineered, refined and accurate calibre is what separates horology from jewellery or fashion items.
Is nomos horology ?
I believe what all watch owners want, whether it be Rolex or Vostok, a reliable movement, that works. Better quality of materials & workmanship is a nice bonus
I find it charming that a Vostok carries it’s own brand caliber, even though it’s not as impressive or reliable as a JLC, it’s… fun I guess.
Well i would consider vostok horology even though its not particularly well engineered and accurate calibre. So its not that black or white imo
@@topelzmrzovalnik
I respect your opinion, but I just can’t see the appeal of cheap, utilitarian mechanical watches. I think that when the movement means nothing you’d be better served by a quartz.
Having an inhouse movement (or not having one) would not be a deciding factor for me personally. I'd rather have a watch with an external movement that offers the desired accuracy and functionality over an inhouse movement that may not have that- or maybe it would have it, but be much more expensive.
That being said, I do think brands should be transparent about their movements, giving consumers the option to make their own considerations.
Some people do value inhouse, others don't- but everybody values transparency.
Ohhhh MATE! I’m working on a video about this right now!! Theo and Harris recently did sometjing quote similar as well which inspired me. I really appreciated your take Teddy! Balanced and informative as always!
Hope you aren't going to say Rolex have used in house movements for decades. As you probably know they only bought Aegler around 2004.
LOL - I'm in this video! I posted the "Why isn't 100m water resistance standard at this point?" thread on the Watchuseek clip at 2:22. Great content as always Teddy!
TEDDY la qualité de ton contenu est magnifique. Continue ton beau travail c'est un plaisir de te suivre sur ta chaîne. From a french fan from Montréal Canada
Great topic. I’m liking my Sellita internals in my Sinn’s to the ZF transmissions in our BMW’s. They sourced a component that works.
I think you nailed it!
So true ,and the zf is the best trans with a torque converter you can buy
😂
The Sellita internals will continue to work, as long as you don’t hand-wind that Sinn.
@@simonbailey2151 is there an issue with the winding?
Ted did a great job explaining the in house movements. I could not disagree with anything he said. He is very thorough and fair of his incite into all of the movements that are out there. Very well done explanation. Keep up the great work
I have not seen all your videos, but have seen a lot. As others reiterated this one rates near the top. Well done Teddy.
GREAT discussion. Watches are by mature technical and we deserve to have more direct technical discussions. The current Omega coaxial calibres all go back to a base 2892- nothing wrong with that. Plenty of brand new "in house" movements can have incredible teething pains. I would strongly recommend that you bring in a watchmaker for some "under the hood" discussions from their perspective.
Cosc certified sellita or ETA for me..great accuracy with affordable servicing....
I dont mind 3rd party movements , just as long as the price reflects this . In house movements are generally better due to purpose and innovations to improve specs. In house movements also show the capability of a manufacturer, just as long as its not just a heavily modified existing design
One of the best bang for buck in house movements is Baume and Mercier Baumatic 80hr Power Reserve Ton of value for the price and some stunning watches without insane price gouging
I really love your ability to be objective. And super educational video buddy!
Wow. This is very insightful. Great videos! I think a portion of the customers who are against third part movement is because some brands like hublot, panerai, and frank muller charge extraneous premium for their extremely low cost movement. Other than that, I think most ppl will be fine spending 3-5k on a quality watch with eta movement.
Finally, someone who talks about a difficult topic in luxury watches. I have tried to explain to friends who want to buy an automatic watch that they must pay attention to what it will cost to own the watch in terms of service and insurance.
Many people become too concerned about whether the watch has an in-house movement without fully understanding what it really means. I really liked the video. Hope first time buyers see this so they can make a better choice.
Great video. You kind of talked about it, but I think people who value in-house movements fall into 2 camps. The first is in-house is better because of the prestige/commitment from the brand. The second is people prefer in-house movements because they are better for the watch than any available third party movement available, whether that is because it has increased power reserve, shock/magnetic residence, or because the geometry is better for the watch design, like Nomos positioning the date wheels for their in-house movements to match the design of the watch. I am definitely in the latter camp, but I understand the former
... yeah... Nomos couldn't just use an off the shelf movement with a custom wheel to get a different date. Gotta build an entirely new movement.
Thanks, Teddy, for this objective assessment of the differences between in-house and third-party movements.
Excellent video. Of all my watches, the two with the best movements are both in-house. But I have no problem with an ETA or even an NH35A.
Christopher Ward's magazine Loupe just did an article about this as well, and came to many of the same conclusions. "In-house" is a marketing term that people have fallen for... My CWs with Sellita movements, or my Damasko with an ETA, are better than Seikos at the same price range.
My old Chevy Colorado had a Mitsubishi alternator... It didn't make the truck bad, or not Chevy, it was just an expert part from a reputable manufacturer. GM openly advertises Allison transmissions in their heavy duty trucks for the same reason.
The 5.9 Cummins is so celebrated in Dodge trucks. Never figured out why it was the other way round in watches.
Well said, my ZL1 has a Tremec transmission as do most high performance high powered cars for its ability to handle so much horsepower and this is proudly advertised. Tremec specializes in high performance transmissions its all they do so GM decided to defer to the specialists and give their clients a high quality reliable transmission in their Higher performance Camaro’s and Corvettes. Ask Ford Mustangs GT owners about their “In House Manufactured” transmission wowes. My point being “In House Manufactured” doesn’t always mean better. I do appreciate the R and D and additional time to manufacture the movement in house so that will obviously increase the cost of the watch which is understandable but there is nothing wrong with a tried tested and proven reliable movement that has been outsourced and often times adjusted to the current watch manufacturers specifications prior to being put into their watch…….sorry for another car analogy but…..Toyota Supra which is a BMW Z4 but Toyota has arguably made it an even better overall car/driving experience.
The snob value being attached to "in house" movements is a heaven-sent opportunity for manufacturers to capture a revenue stream that would previously have gone to independent watchmakers. If Comco hadn't placed restrictions on ETA, things might be different. In any event we are where we are, but I totally concur, Teddy, with your sentiments about people demonising ETA movements. The 2824 and 2892 are and were very fine movements that need no apologies. For context, I own watches with ETA, Valjoux, Zenith, Rolex and Omega movements, so I've no particular torch to carry for ETA. Great video on a topic that does deserve more debate.
Well put! As you also seem to have some first hand experience with those big names pf movements, may I ask which one has impressed you the most? I've heard people say Zeniths are quite remarkable, but I wonder if it's truly noticeable next to Rolex and Omega.
@@raven_of_zoso455 Rolex's movements probably have the best combination of accuracy, reliability and serviceability. But the 2892,2824 and 7750 are all very sound movements. The El Primero is a fine movement, but then so is a Rolex 4130. In general, in my experience, the most troublesome part of movements generally are the autowind systems, but then they are a heavily stressed component given that you are cantilevering a relatively heavy weight off a relatively small post/bearing system. I'm not really a fan of exhibition casebacks, so movement decoration doesn't really matter and personally, it's all about functionality for me.
@@costelloandsilke7321 thanks for a very informative answer! Yes, I too think ETA movements takes more crap than they deserve. Especially for someone who's life isn't on the line if the watch is not 99,9% accurate of what's possible. Service costs is something I do take into consideration when looking at new watches, but how much that factor weight in obviously vary depending what else the watch has to offer.
Also, I see you mentioned El Primero and Rolex 4130 there, two movements I which I think share a very interesting story of how complex it is to make a automatic cronograph movement. My only crono is mechanical, nothing more fancy than a Seagull, but the fact that it is a mechanical column wheel crono in a $250 watch is kinda crazy in its own way. As a true wristwatch rookie (still on a budget) this watch has brought me so much joy for the vast and wonderful world of horology.
@@raven_of_zoso455 You are welcome - enjoy your watch journey!
@@costelloandsilke7321 you bet, and same to you pal!
Really informative video. This is the type content I really enjoy on You Tube. The older I get the more I want to learn about anything and everything.
This was the best explanation video ever. This ideas have been rolling around in my head for years. Thank you for putting this together.
I am really interested in a Tudor that only has an eta movement, which kind of bugged me till now. I also did some research on the forums and found out that the service of the eta by tudor cost way less than their more modern movements, so now I’m good with this!🎉
Did you buy your Tudor?
The only movement I have ever had crap out on me was a Valjoux 7750. Cost me $350 to repair and now all is well in the universe. I think the benefit of a big name movement is that it is easier to get it repaired vs an in-house movement that could require expensive “in-house” repairs.
Same, my in house Frederique Constant cost £500 but my Oris only cost £250.
Beware falsely advertised service costs!
Lange advertise $1450 for a full movement 'overhaul', service and replacement of defective parts on a time only piece.
However, they claim the case could have been opened on my preowned watched, thats a blanket cost of €3,500, regardless of the mint condition.
They won't work on it for anything less.
Either the much lauded Lange service is outright falsely advertised or they hide the real costs of a true service.
Teddy, you've always been a fine analyst and a wise voice to all of us, but you've really stepped up the depth and originality of your content. It's exciting to watch you grow!
A very well articulated view Teddy, I can't argue with a single point you made. U used to get a tad annoyed when someone berates a watch that has a 3rd party movement but frankly I do not care anymore. It's also worth mentioning that some watch manufacturers take the time to regulate an assembled ebauche while others do not to the same degree. If I like a watch and can justify/afford it I'm not overly bothered what movement resides within. The decision may take into account any known issues with certain movements though including in house issues.
I've been wanting to know about this for a while. Thanks Teddy.
Love this type of videos of yours Teddy. Very informative and generates discussion. Thanks!
The in-house thing often makes me laugh - like it’s a luxury badge of honour. Same people seem to forget that Vostock, Seiko, Orient etc are significantly more ‘in-house’ in nearly every way than your mid-luxury Swiss/German stuff. Spending 1k more for the same watch from an Oris or Tudor because it has an in-house over the previous Selita is simply showing you have more money than sense. But each to their own of course!
Eta made the watch world pretty boring. Its like most watches 5k and below are using movements based on the ETA 2824.
At the same time, I was looking at that 1k new Chinese Tourbillon watch YT video, when they show the movement finishing under magnification, for cheap it is and quite a good price for the feature, it cannot match the beautiful movement finishing a more expensive watch will bring. Sure, it's a 1 to 20 (and more) price ratio and It's out of reach for many anyway but what is great with the watch world is that you can really enjoy a few of them' for wearing or collecting, in almost any budget category...
It is called having a taste, everybody has their own opinions and perceptions. Looks aren't all to having a watch for me. It is history and movements also play a role. It is simple you pay more because there is more effort put into that watch. Buying jewellery and spending money on hobbies rarely makes sense.
I have bought my 2nd Longines. I love both of them and both are beautifully decorated. My new one is also COSC certified, whatever that means.
most important things for me in a watch is value, reliability and repairability. don't care much about in-house or 3rd party. if i had the funds, i wouldn't mind paying for a simple patek, for say $50k. But if that same watch takes $13k to service, forget it. the same thinking translates to a $500 hamilton or a $50 casio.
Excellent video and explanation of the in-house movement vs third party movement. I really don’t care if it’s a in-house movement or third party movement when I’m buying a watch, I care about it’s capabilities, reliability and ease of service. Keep the good work my friend!
I recently purchased a Breitling Superocean that uses the Breitling 17 caliber which is ETA 2824-2 and a certified chronometer. During the purchase, I had the opportunity to see and try the Tudor Black Bay 58, which is really a great watch with an in-house movement, but the feeling I had when I put on the Breitling is something special (probbably ceramic bezel) I have been using it daily for three months now and I have to admit that I was surprised by how extremely accurate and precise it is.
Teddy - thanks for dealing with this issue. I’m looking to get a mechanical watch and I keep coming across this very issue. I feel like ease of serviceability is a big deal. I’m seeing lots of ETA based movements in my price range and was getting hung up on them not being in house movements. You put my mind at ease.
I enjoy putting watches together I am no watch maker but enjoy modding and create one off's even if the world wants to call them "Franken's" they are for me. The point is that I have been using the new PT5000 from H.K. Precision Technology (HKPT). From the factory they are better regulated than an ETA and run (in my 3 builds) at 2-5 seconds a day.
I think a premium ETA movement timepiece. is just as good as a Rolex in-house movement timepiece is. I have a Steinhard GMT and a Rolex GMT. The Steinhard runs 2+ sec per day. The rolex Loses -4 Sec per day. They both run consistently for years. Only the price difference is 10,000K. I believe ETA makes the best timepieces
True. I have just bought the latest Ceramic Hydroconquest (with the L888.3 movement, not even the COSC certified L888.4) and the average I got at the watch service shop was minus 1-1.5 sec/day (!!)... this is indeed Rolex standard yet it's ""just"" a modified ETA. I am not sure what ETA do specifically at the Longines HQ, but it works.
Yeah paying more for mechanical movements has a diminishing return. But in-house movements are still neat. A lot of ETA movements look the same.
@@ziksy6460
A decorated top ETA movement looks waaaaaaaay better than a Rolex movement. In fact a decorated ETA can look almost (almost) as good as a JLC, and that’s very high praise.
@@istvantoth7431 The Longines is Hydroconquest Are Rolex Subs Killers, And many top brands use ETA movements . they still remain accessible in price. a Rolex AP Patek is not for everyone. And as terry said Overpriced/Overrated. Are the very expensive in-house brands movements
I have had Rolexes, Omegas, a Breitling, Seikos, Balls, Zodiacs, Edoxes, and a Yema. The most durable and best performing were the Selida movements in my Ball watches. But, honestly, all the ones I mentioned, with the exception of the Edox watches I used to have (they were older collectible watches), were pretty much comparable. Yes, that includes the Seikos, of which I had everything from Turtles to the MM300. The main difference seems to be that anything with the ETA style movements are MUCH more convenient and cheaper to have worked on. The Grand Seiko movements in the MM300 and my Uemara edition 6105 reissue are just as much a PITA as my current Omega; the cheaper 4R35 are much more cost effective to simply replace rather than get serviced.
Ball is an excellent brand.
Very useful.
Third party movements are the way.
I have good experiences with third party and also in house.
My own choice would be third party, and my favorite is Sellita.
The rest is a good finished case and a good strap.
First i look at when i want a watch? Which eta or Sellita is used.
Independent become more important for me, i have two and i am surprised how really good they are.
Really surprising that for a bargain really good watches are available.
The most important for me when buying a watch, are accuracy and power reserve, so first I look after a design I like, then I dig into the specs and retain only those matching with my whims, COSC preferably, and 60h minimum, then no matter if in house or 3rd part movements.
I started collecting, and really getting into watches just a few months ago. I just wanted to say thanks for such a clear and comprehensive education. This is one of many videos I've watched now. For that alone I'll always keep you in mind when purchasing.
I own an IWC Mark XVIII and ppl say "oh thats a Selita blah" ... so yea what's up? It's running fine and and it's a fair looking watch! So let me and my Mark XVIII be, and bugger off please.
Thank you teddy, I find this content to be very informative and entertaining
A fantastic edition, TB. Strong agreement with nearly every point made.
I now add an anecdotal: I own a Longines Record, its movement is denominated L 888.4, we all know its a modified ETA 2824, but its modified, from SwatchWorld (just like Longines) and a certified chronometer. It is supremely accurate (5 secs/month typical when used every day) and pretty to boot (display caseback). Three years ago i got caught wearing it in a torrential downpour while on horseback, it got damp inside. The emergency servicing cost me less than U$100.
Is it in-house? I don't know, you decide. Is it better than some in-house movements I own? Way better! Do i want to see an L888.4 in a $10k watch? No, I'd want more artisanal finishing, know-how etc. Would i buy a $10k watch with an in-house movement to replace or upgrade it. No, i'd be wasting my money.
Very pleased you highlighted Longines as an example of a mid-level maker that's got the right attitude and balance. After all, as you imply this is more about marketing and prestige/luxury than whether the movement is accurate or pleasing to the eye.
As usual, a great video. Thanks Teddy for sharing your expertise with watch lovers.
Often people miss the point of having a watch that you simply enjoy. If you are buying and wearing a watch to impress others, you don’t have a standing with me.
Great diversity in content, Teddy. Personally, I only have 2 watches (Rolex Explorer 124270 and Nomos Orion 309) but I consider servicing when I’m looking at watches. I think folks who are new to the hobby and have 10+ watches aren’t thinking about long term costs and practicality (‘luxury’ - I know).
On the flip side, what separates watches apart from one another even more so than aesthetics, is the movement. That’s what makes most upstart micro brands less appealing to me - just shells with identical movements and such.
Interesting conversation all the same though, thanks again!
This.
@@varanid9 🤛🏿
>just shells with identical movements and such.
You must hate modern cars. What separates a Porsche Cayenne from an Audi Q7? A Chevy Tahoe from a Cadillac Escalade? A BMW Z4 from a Toyota Supra? It's all about window dressing. Why oh why don't they have iN hOuSe dRiVeTrAiNs!!!
@@Mister_Phafanapolis I don’t care about cars, this is a watch channel lolol
I bought 2 Christopher Ward watches; each has a Sellita movement. As we know Sellita is a Swiss made off the shelf movement. I love the brand. Both my watches are well engineered accurate and attractive. As we know, Tudor uses or used some Sellita movements. You have to judge for yourself what is good value for money.
Great video. I’ve also started to see the term ‘Manufacturer Movement’ as a half way movement to fully in house. Personally I love non in house movements where they make sense. Take the Superocean 57. The ETA is perfect in that watch because it keeps the design slim, if Breitling used the B01 it would be too thick and the proportions would be all wrong…plus cheaper servicing so win/ win
I watched a video of the service/restoration of a vintage Vacheron Constantin and although the movement is a piece of art, you'd truly have to be very well off to be able to afford to service or repair such a thing of beauty (let alone buy!) 🤩
When I'm asked for recommendations for a watch, I ask them not only a budget for the watch but what are they willing to pay for service. I just had a JLC Reverso that cost me $830.00 to service. I knew that when I purchased it. Most people I know would be more than satisfied with an ETA, Valjoux or Unitas movement. What I detest is... my Blah, blah, blah is just as good as your high horology piece. The GO SeaQ Pano with the 36-13 movement is something I love to look at and it is amazingly accurate. I always get a kick out of people that poo poo peoples passions as stupid while justifying their own. Good presentation.
Beware falsely advertised service costs!
Lange advertise $1450 for a full movement 'overhaul', service and replacement of defective parts on a time only piece.
However, they claim the case could have been opened on my preowned watched, thats a blanket cost of €3,500, regardless of the mint condition.
They won't work on it for anything less.
Either the much lauded Lange service is outright falsely advertised or they hide the real costs of a true service.
@@Jay-xr3sb At least with the JLC, it was the estimated cost. I didn't pay more.
I went through that phase of collecting back in the 1980's. Yeah...it was nice wearing my Exp II....I had a Sub also...but I hated the black bezel & dial with white numerals. But...it was a work requirement....yeah..there is an explanation... but I don't want to explain it! Once I moved out and worked on my own, the Sub was sold and my Exp II was my daily until I started having problems with the movement ( which happened after the warranty was up! ) I wore my two Seiko's for the longest time...for work...and a G Shock the rest of the time.
Today....at 64 years old, I just wear what I like...which are larger watches! I am 6'6" and have a 23 cm wrist. So I prefer a 47 to 52 mm watch, why...because it looks like a normal sized watch on my wrist. As long as I like it...that's all I care about!
"Logic and luxury really intersect" wise quote.
I avoid so many problems and headaches buying something simple as quartz Casio... I am very lucky to be actually happy with just a simple Casio watch..
I regret selling my early Panerai 112 with decorated ETA movement. Looked and worked great, and was easy and cheap to service.
Just bought an in house movement watch that stopped after a couple of days and I had to send to it the service. Then again, had mass produced movements that needed some service quite quickly too, I guess it depends on the quality after all..
Teddy, this was just an excellent discussion. Thanks!
Man... had to puase the video just to appreciate and thank for the beautiful macros in all your videos. Great way to appreciate the details with cinematographic feeling to it.
Personally it doesn't bother me if it's in house. I buy watches realistically by sight, If I find a watch attractive I will buy it and as long as the movement runs reliably it shouldn't matter.
I understand the allure of in-house, but I gotta say having a Sellita SW-200 in my Oris Diver 65 has been great. My watch guy has parts for it in his shop and it performs spectacularly: typically better than +/- 4 secs per day. There’s a lot to be said for a solid in-house.
I love these educational & in-depth videos
I frequently see this question posted on different watch forums. Teddy, you've explained it so well and so thoroughly that from now I'm just going to link this video for the OP. This video along with your recent "How To Tell If A Watch Is Well-Made" are invaluable to those new to the world of high-end watches.
A great update on your video 7 months ago about different movements.
I have both in house and third party movements in my collection. Including ETA in a Hamilton and Miota in a microbrand. I have two watches that have in-house movements but are widely available and can be serviced through a network of ADs. However, I have ordered a third that I will have to send back to the manufacturer I did consider this in my decision to purchase. I enjoy all of my watches and do not look down on those with third party movements as I am an enthusiast. I found this an interesting discussion. I would like more discussions like this.
For me if the movement is from a movement manufacturer owned by the mother company like ETA for Swatch group or Val Flourier for Richemont group, that passes as in house. I think there are different grades of in house and this is the entry level to be classified as in house.
Great video Teddy, thank you!
Thank you Teddy , about this subject . I think what makes difficult is that it is subjective but you knocked out the park . The reason I brought my Sinn 556i was because of the anti magnetic components , 26 jewels which help with friction , 20 bar , the extra decoration . The movement is 3rd party selita of the ETA but as good in my experience . So there for alot of watch for the money ( partly German engineering )
Hi Teddy. A great follow up video on this topic could be a closer look and discussion around the Damasko DS30 vs the new DK30. It is more or less identical watches with the new DK30 being with a in house movement instead of a ETA 2824 in the DS30.
Great video Teddy!! I think inhouse is too vague of a term. How about inhouse modified, and I don't just mean the rotor. Like you mentioned the Nomos alpha caliber.. they manufacture the components and assemble in house, but they clearly didn't design the movement architecture. They modified it, to add the hacking function though too. Weiss did a similar thing with their 1003 caliber, which is ETA based but manufactured, finished and assembled by Cameron. His movement also added a very slick hacking function the 6497 ETA didn't have.
I have 10 mechanical watches and only 2 have eta chronographs the rest is Tudor grand seikos and high end seikos, heuer 02 and Blancpain 1315 I worry about the cost of the in house movement so that’s a point to consider which is maintenance cost of mechanical pieces.
Hey Teddy, great video and very informative.
Do you remember a while ago an author that called himself "The Watch Snob"? I had this perspective of "Only In-House or Nothing", much to the influence of this author. As I grew up, I realized that for the country I am located in, its best to have third party movements, as they are easily serviceable. Also, as I gained interest in Micro-brands, this became much more common.
I'm naturally skeptical of what I hear from TH-cam content creators, especially if they look too young to have ever had a watch serviced, and especially-especially if they sell watches, too. But with each new video, Baldassarre pulls further ahead of the pack. When my colleagues tell me they're thinking of buying their first luxury watch, I'll send them to his channel without hesitation.
This reminds me of small car companies like Lotus. A lot of time they use Toyota motors. If they designed, and built their own motor it would be extremely expensive, but not only that you would have to take it to a Lotus dealer to have it Serviced, and it would be very expensive, but pretty much any shop in the world can work on a Toyota.
Lotus used to make their own motors in the 70s and 80s - the 907. It was also supplied to Jensen-Healey early in its life and it's unreliability was meant to be part of the demise of Jenson. It became reliable later in life.
@@MurrayC yeah I know, and they were very expensive, very finicky, and very expensive to have repaired. That was the exact point I was trying to make.
That movement from Glasshutte sure was gorgeous. I paused to look more closely just because it was so beautiful. I'd pay extra for that if I had the money.
Very in depth and common sense video !Very nice and very well explained! 10x
Look at Tudor… so many youtube videos on new Tudor movements failing; and the owners had to send it back to HQ (for the tudor 58 ceramic, as Hong Kong had no parts). In house to me means reliability. Thats key.
Is Tudors really in-house? It’s made by a company owned by the Rolex/Tudor corp. like saying Hamilton is in-house as it’s swatch owned (who also who own ETA). Tudors in-house is much like many others - it’s meh. It adds nothing new to the prior ETAs used - all marketing and extra RRP.
I want the smoothest second hand sweep. The Bulova Lunar Pilot with the quartz automatic may be the option.
One aspect that might be interesting to some is the guaranty. Breitling for example offers 2 years on their ETA movements and I think 5 years on their "in house" movements.
Thank you Teddy… very good subject. You always find the best topics.
It’s true that some years ago we were more about the design without any interest of in house movement or not… now the first question we ask:
“ is it an in house movement…” no? Then it’s too expensive for an ETA or….
When looking for watches I get more interested in the ones that I feel that are special. A watch can be special by having a great story, by having a new function, by having an in house movement and etc. If the movement is 100% in house or not, it doesn't matter to me as long as it feel special. 2 examples:
-Damasko makes a movement that is heavily inspired by ETA's 2824 but it has some improvements to make it more durable. For me this is much nicer than an in house movement that doesn't bring any innovation.
-Doxa's divers, although equiped with ETA's 2824, have a great history of innovation helping shape how divers are made nowadays and feel very special for me.
Another solution would be to get a grand seiko quartz and you have a very good inhouse movement thats good to go for 50 year lifespan with battery changes only.
I think you covered a difficult and sometimes sensitive topic extremely well.
Once again a great topic presentation! Please continue with the excellent content with well balanced points of discussion. You are quickly becoming my top reasoned source for most things that are timepiece related. Thanks!
Great video....the reason i bought my tudor was the 70 hr reserve and being titanium...i work in restaurants and needed a watch that would take a beating
In my own experience, inhouse movements are usually a hassle, because they tend to be more expensive to repair and can't be repaired by your local watchmaker that often as an ETA can. Also i own a both of them and ETA seems to be the more precise and longlasting.
These refined state of man's hand finessed machines are much in need of respect for this is state of the art expression, High beat with that smooth second hand swing, faces always of character and a strength of character toned in time, application and production...Rembrandt on a grain of rice.
*_I look for performance, period. Decoration and “fine finishing” are nice (of course) but I see accurate timekeeping ON THE WRIST as the priority above everything. All my watches, which include Seikos from a 7S26 up to GS, Orient, Rolex and several Swiss brands with ETA engines (2824 and Powermatic 80) run within COSC on the wrist. This matters above anything, especially “in house” designed and or manufactured._*
Excellent video. Very didatic. Helps understand the watch culture.
Great Video.
I own 3 in-house movements watches. Not so expensive as your downside list says :)
All are Orient watches with their in-house movements. All are simple, workhorses all very accurate.
Great video, Teddy and great discussion!
I actually keep tossing around in my head if the ETA movements used in Hamilton, Longines, or other similar Swatch brands aren't actually basically in-house anyway? Swatch is making those pieces and then aligning them to the brand and their own watchmaker, ETA, is making the movements for them and often spec'd specifically for those brands. It's pretty well in-house just done on a huge scale in my mind. Omega is obviously a special case within the watch group (pun alert).
I think what people are really talking about these days in the in-house debates is almost more of a discussion around "artisan" production versus mass production. Feels like a similar argument to me.
Curious to hear your thoughts!
Rolex make over 800k watches, are their really aritisen then as they are massed produced?
Thx for doing this Teddy! Very good dissecting and logical arguments! Keep up the good work and stay safe
A really good video and the key word used many times is value. How do people perceive value (what they will pay, residuals, prestige etc, etc) and how the manufacturer delivers value to consumers, but also to their bottom line and shareholders, is the question. I built an ETA 7750 recently from a kit parts Swiss supplier and it sits in the same box as Breitlings that cost 5+ times as much. Two of these have the same movement, so why the difference - brand equity of course. When I show it to people and explain what the cost would be for a branded watch, their jaws drop. Seiko supplies somewhat industrial movements which if ‘dressed up’ with rotor polishing and some better bridge/plate finishing could increase the perceived value of their watches.
Great video. I honestly don’t care what movement is in the watch…in house or not. If I like the watch, I buy it. Movement has never been a factor for me.
Great video with lots of very useful info. Thanks Teddy :)
Inhouse also means it is MANUFACTURED by the company, not just designed and assembled by them.
There are ( so called ) Inhouse movements that are supplied by someone else. Tudor's " inhouse " movements are made by Kenissi, for example.
In reality, there are relatively few manufacturers that truly make everything inhouse these days.
I've got watches with both an in-house movement and a modified 3rd party. The in-house is in my Orient Ray 2, and works fine. The modified 3rd party is an ETA Valjoux 7750 in my Longines Grand Vittesse. Whatever the mods they did and regulations it's had, they nailed it, it's running about +1.5 s/d. Like over the course of a 31 day month, it only gained 43 seconds or so. I got mad love for ETA. And knowing I can get it serviced for less than a simple 3-hand in-house movement in another watch is extra nice!