If Donner was able to finish the movie, I'm sure he and the writers would have figured a way to end the movie differently. However, this end represents how the sequel was going to end in the initial script.
@@matthewawesomeness7775 Yeah, I know that. I feel it works much better as a resolution for dramatic effect in Superman I. It doesn't work entirely well in the Donner Cut, as it kinda makes the whole movie insignificant. However, it is what it is. I'm glad the cut exists just to show fans what was originally intended.
@@Dohsoda Interesting thing about the Donner ending, originally, Clarke was suppose to slip a Krytonian pill that erases Lois' memory before it was changed to the super-kiss.
He did this by giving Lois a drink of water, before he sneaks the pill into her drink and then boom, instant memory wipe. A little more creepy in retrospective, but a little better than the super kiss?
Unpopular Opinion: I like the Donner's Cut better, of course it has some flaws, but I think some aspects/scenes are making more sense, and I always appreciate the director's original vision more, because this is HIS movie, not the studio's. And I wouldn't call superman time reversal power as time travel, it'll be much more sensical if we can view it as "Thermodynamic Reversal", in which Superman can reverse the thermodynamics of an entire planet down to its core, down to every single subatomic particle that makes up the entire Earth by encircling it at an unimaginable speed, spreading his aura throughout the world.
The two films were shot together. I don't know how the og ending of the first film was meant to be but I get the impression he wasn't supposed to do it twice.
This ending is very underappreciated. Assuming the ending was not used at the end of part 1, this would have been the ultimate "gag" and a perfect way to cap off Donner's Superman saga. It is a very meta comment on how serial and comic book storytelling so often tries to reset the storyline back to where it started so that nothing ever really changes in the premise of the series. It's also a comment on how audiences take movies too seriously. The Superman movies just want to be there to show the audience a good time. This scene would force the audience to realize that what they just saw didn't amount to anything in the end but was still incredibly entertaining. I think it is very motivated in the story because Superman cannot stand to see the heart broken of the woman he loves.
@@integrity101 I think he did. He knew he made a mistake by giving up his powers. He saw that Lois' heart was broken. And he saw their friendship would be hard to continue with her knowing his identity and knowing what happened between them. So he is reversing the Earth to get their relationship back to normal. There's no other reason to do it. The villains were defeated. It's unclear whether reversing time would get Jor-El back in the Fortress or not. But he made Lois lose her memory with the kiss in the theatrical part 2, and this is how the same thing is done in the Donner cut.
A bit of a cobbled-together mess but a nice indication of what Donner wanted. I appreciated the use of the beautiful Fortress of Solitude theme (but then what John Williams music isn't beautiful?)
This is where the Donner cut totally loses me. I realize that this was the originally intended ending to Superman II, but it works so much better as the emotional climax of the first Superman film. Here it just makes Superman look lazy and dumb. The much maligned "super-kiss" from the Lester version is much more creative and satisfying.
In theory, this isnt 100% the original ending, in the full Donner version, Lois was going to die, not in the first one, so, it would be more emotional than having it in the first one.
@@nearmintcondition3737 When would she have died? I mean the tearful farewell on the balcony was shot by Donner and intended to be in his Superman 2. Are we missing the part where she jumped off the roof to her death?
@@nearmintcondition3737 Just not the original intent or what Donner shot. He shot the part where she hugs Supes after Zod's defeat and when they say good-bye on her expensive rooftop apartment.
I actually love this scene because it’s symbolic of (mostly) putting this movie back to the way it should’ve been with Donner’s footage. And to me this is the finale of the Reeve/Donnerverse, Clark’s smile combined with the music at 2:44 is so happily cathartic.
If Superman was able to turn back time even erasing what the Phantom Zone villains did, then how would the people at the diner even remember who Clark Kent was and the damage that was done in the final scene?
Agreed. Even though the mind-wipe kiss is just as ridiculous, I prefer it over the time travel. This version takes all the responsibility off his shoulders. He can just do this whenever he chooses? Ridiculous.
@@will_sketch No the character of Superman does it once. Not twice. It works much better in 2 than in 1. In 2 he is actually in a relationship with Lois. So he defeated the villians, saved earth, put ZOD & co back in phantom zone, restored all national monuments, prevented the public from having to live in fear going forward & reset his relationship with Lois because she is heartbroken about their break up which must occur. Jor El warned Kal of this. So he accomplished much more spinning the earth in 2. Jor El is now gone forever, the fortress is destroyed and Kal El has officially become a man. The kryptonian prophecy is complete. It's Supermans decision not Jor Els and Kal did what he thought was best. Now Kal El embraced earth as his home too & he understands how important he is to the world going forward.
@@integrity101 "once. Not twice." This is assuming he did not already do it in the first film. But he did. The film is finished and released. Its canon. So if you consider the Donner Cut canon, which I do not... then he turned back time twice. Very irresponsible. In order for the character of Superman to become a better hero, he has to face great loss. We can't just have him lawlessly rewriting the course of history. This is what Jor-El was trying to teach him by saying it is forbidden. Plus, "even for those tasks which human beings could solve for themselves. It is their habit to abuse their resources in such a way." By doing this in part two, he is not letting humans face consequences. He's has to learn that he can't save everyone all the time. So, the time travel works better in part one. because he didn't do it for the world. He made a selfish choice to save ONE life. Which was already set up in the beginning fo the film. It was a call back to losing Jonathan. He couldn't save his dad, but he could save Lois. Who was he saving in part 2? Why were the stakes so high that he had to time travel? To fix some statues and put three mass murderers back in the phantom zone?
@@will_sketch The consequences are in 2. He made a dreadful mistake and there were serious consequences unlike Lester 2. The whole story with Jor El is screwed up by having him reverse the earth in 1. When he spins the earth in 1 they essentially condensed his entire arc for both films into a 3 minute scene in 1. He isnt supposed to interfere with human history until his dad is gone. Why doesnt jor el mention it to kal after lois dies? Not to mention he defies his father over a girl he has a crush on at work. In 2 he is in a relationship. he made major mistake and dealt with the consequences of getting his powers back. He is still a rookie superman. Kal El is not a fully formed Superman until he says "General would u care to step outside/havent u heard of freedom of the press?" Kal El doesnt truly grow up & become a man until that point. This is why fans crying about Man Of Steel Superman fighting in the city while Donners Superman took his fight with Zod out of the city simply didnt get the stories. At all. They are at completely different points in their lives. Its apples to oranges. As for canon, i think its beyond stupid that anyone cares about that stuff. Ya watch whatever sequels ya wanna watch. If ya wanna watch the true story you watch the Donner films. Superman 2 the Donner cut is far & away the superior version as it is the true continuation of the story and reviews clearly prove it. Despite the myths & general narrative there is a misunderstanding as it is more complete than Lesters version. That's a fact. Lester did a bad job compared to Donner. He was competent but Lester is only there to give us the cheapest film possible. Thata literally why his version exists. Why do u think he reshot so many cheap scenes that do nothing for the story. S2 is not a sequel. It is literally the 2nd half of SUPERMAN THE MOVIE. Donner 2 is the 2 hour conclusion to SUPERMAN the movie. Lester 2 is a sequel superman episode not a conclusion to SUPERMAN the movie. It's one big 4.5 hour movie if u watch Donners films The end of STM is simply the half way point. As for spinning the earth twice you are mistaken. Obviously you see a scene in both films no one is debating that but the audience is expected to be intelligent enough to realize what they are watching. The character of Superman spins the earth once. He doesnt go around reversing the earth everyday. Thats silly. He does it one time. Superman the movie was finished incorrectly not S2.
Do you want to see logic in a movie of a man who can fly ?? Do yourself a favor and save us from stupidity, go watch Harry Potter who is more like your spoiled child.
So exactly how far back does Superman turn back the clock? Is it to the day before the Lex Luthor-redirected missiles head for California and Hackensack? Will Zod, Non and Ursa have any memory of the events that happened after they're re-trapped back into the Phantom Zone? Does this mean that the Fortress of Solitude has been rebuilt and that Jor-El is alive again?
I remember watching the original version of Superman 2. It was my favorite of the franchise. When I saw the “Richard Donner Cut” on a TV broadcast, I didn’t know it was the RDC version, because it wasn’t labeled as such. I was stunned when I saw those new scenes, remembering that they weren’t like that, and in some scenes, i was... confused. From that point on, I thought the original version of Superman 2 I saw was some kind of Mandela Effect, but then I found out that the version I saw on that TV broadcast was the RDC version, because Donner couldn’t finish the film due to being replaced by another director during the progress of the film’s development. It’s just… interesting to know that it was the Richard Donner version…
Doesn't make sense that when he reverses time this time around Zod would end up back in the phantom zone when the nuke exposed and let them out ages away from Earth, this time travel turn back thing was Earth only, so it would only send Zod back to just before he went into Earths atmosphere, not the entire universe, if this makes any sense at all
I just realized that one of best ways to watch Superman 2 is just watch the Donner Cut and skip the time travel shit. This maintains the emotional moments and ends the film with trucker scene. I appreciate the continuity and tone of Donner’s Cut, but I hate the time travel
The original idea for the ending in first move was that Superman trow the 2nd rocket into space making it explode at the phantom zone prison what would make Zod and the other free. But the investors disliked the cliff hanger ending and wanted a "real ending". So they took the ending of the 2nd movie and change few things in the script, that is how we got the ending we have now
And to complete your answer, Donner was fired before production could resume and a new ending written. So technically there was no ending to the Donner version of Superman II.
It's kinda pointless criticising the Donner cut for S2. You see what the intention was, and the ending here, that was used for S1, would have been rewritten to be something else and undoubtedly excellent. The amnesia kiss from Lester's S2 makes sense, and is superbly well acted. Overall, if I had one wish and could turn back time, it would be that Donner had originally finished S2. What a movie that would've been !
I love Donner but when it comes to SM2 I'm a Lester man. I love the "magic-kiss" . Something Supes has done many time in the old comics (hypnosis) and off topic but them same "broad" humor in SM 2 and SM3 was the same in SM 1. Also, would have sworn Lester directed Supergirl ( which I love) because I felt the humor was the same. Pro Lester and pro SG 84!
Frankly both endings (the memory-erasing kiss and the time-rewinding) have each their own merits (with the latter being really spectacular and thrilling). But to me, neither is entirely satisfactory. The kiss of oblivion voids the entire romance between Superman and Lois. Going back in time renders the movie's entire plot pointless. I think the filmmakers should've simply left it there with Lois knowing Superman's secret identity and keeping it to herself. That would've made a more dramatic conclusion as she would've had to suffer in silence, knowing she would never be able to resume her relationship with Supes. She would then come across as an even stronger and braver character. Sometimes, the best things in life are the simplest.
I like the kiss more still as who knows, maybe she could recover her memory somehow. .maybe he just needs to kiss her again. But it's infinitely better for actually having happened.
@@jackthegreek6092 Did you watch Superman IV? You don’t have to admit it but I watched it, and in my defense I was only seven years old and I didn’t know any better. Anyhow Superman kisses Lois and restores her memory of the events of Superman II. Then, after flying around with her for a while he wipes her memory with another kiss. I wonder how many times he’s kissed her to make her forget stuff since he can tamper with Lois’ memory at will.
It would be prosaic licence anyway. Even turning the Earth backwards in its rotation doesn't turn back time. Time would still be going forward but the planet spinning backwards, surely
That's a point where I think they should just end the film there without the unnecessary time travel. It wouldn't be a bad point for moving forward Lois knew his secret identity and they had to work their feelings moving forward. Also Fortress of Solitude stays destroyed. It just feels a step back to have the whole film undone after all the emotional arc and character development with this, back to status quo as if nothing happened and if there's a nuclear something those three can be freed again instead of ending up powerless in sone prison with Lex or serving burgers in Detroit. And Lois eventually deducing his secret identity again.
I'm sorry I don't agree with this, Donner did some good editing and cut out a few bad clips and scenes like Lois falling out of the window instead of the Niagra falls scene but to do the time travel again makes it a look like a bad sequel, the idea of him erasing Lois's memory with a powerful kiss makes it more romantic and then they go back to being Lois and Clark. And plus it doesn't go with him getting revenge on Rocky at the end because if he turned back time Rocky or anyone in the Diner would not remember him.
No, the whole point is that he rewound time to before they were released from the Phantom Zone, with the intention of preventing them from getting out in the first place.
@@stargazer1682 He also rewound time in Donner cut to repair all damage done to city while he and the three villains were duking it out; at least that's how I personally interpret it I actually like this better than the kiss in the Lester cut.
@@johnedsel He knew. He saw how and when the interdimensional prison holding them was destroyed in the first place because he saw it being UNdestroyed, and he also knew that he was fast enough to divert the first missile onto a different trajectory that would miss the prison AND prevent the second missile from indirectly killing Lois. That's why he had that great big smile at the end.
I know literally nothing about the fan edit scene, but if I had the know-how to do a fan edit, I would edit a version of Superman 1+2 where Superman makes it to Lois’ car in time and she does not get buried and die, making the time travel scene in Superman 1 unnecessary. You then edit the full Superman 1 time travel scene (including the cloud Jor-El with his warning of tampering with human history) back into Superman 2 Donner claims that the reason for time travel in Superman 1 was because they didn’t think it would be as dramatic or satisfying without it, but I disagree. The moral of Superman 1 imo is that even though he’s Superman, he can’t save everyone. Having him then travel back in time to save everyone flies in the face of the central theme. Having him make it to Lois, if nothing else, saves you from this strange paradox. The dramatic punch would be to add in the missile freeing General Zod at the ending of Superman 1 and putting in text along the lines of “To be continued in Superman 2.” That gives you a huge dramatic gut punch and ties the movies together well. We know this sort of thing can work in a post Infinity War-Endgame world, even though it was quite ahead of it’s time in 1978 In the world where this edit would exist, you have two very different versions of the Superman franchise available to folks. One where Superman doesn’t make it to Lois, she dies, he goes back in time, then you see the Richard Lester movies continue that story. But in an alternate world, Superman makes it to Lois and doesn’t travel through time until the ending of Superman 2, and that’s as close as you can get to the Richard Donner vision of Superman. In both versions of the franchise, Superman only uses his ability to travel through time once (because it’s a violation of his father’s will and he would never want to use it again after the first time), and you get a chance to stifle some of the people who think Richard Donner’s Superman always resorts to traveling back in time to solve all his problems
It would be interesting to see him defy Jor-El after Jor-El's death. We never get to see Jor-El react to Superman defying his orders in part 1, because everything Donner shot for Jor-El in part 2 was shot before they moved that ending to part 1.
While on paper, the idea of Superman (1978) ending with a "to be continued" sounds like an interesting hook, it's certainly not as *dramatic*, which I think is the key point. Moreover, however, that would be an extremely risky move. You compare it to Infinity War and Endgame, but aside from the fact that both franchises are in the superhero genre, it's apples to oranges. By the late 2010s, the MCU has cemented itself as a guaranteed moneymaker in a genre that's generally considered safe already. When these movies were being made, it's not like superhero films were revolutionary new ideas, but nor were they something taken for granted. Had the first film underperformed, the producers could very well have pulled the carpet from under Superman II, and you'd have a "to be continued" that never continues - which has happened in a number of other films I'm not saying that the first film *had* to end with the time travel in order to guarantee its success. I think what you propose would have been just as successful as a film, but honestly, I don't think it would be as satisfying in retrospect. Ideally, I'd have loved if Donner were able to create his original idea for the film - that is, what we have now as Superman 1 and 2 in one go. The running time would be insane. You'd probably have something with a running time approaching Snyder's Justice League, which would *not* have flown (no pun intended) in a late 70s, early 80s theater. But I can dream Or, as others have said, I would be alright with a fan edit of Superman II's Donner cut that changes the ending to reinsert Lester's "magical amnesia kiss", even if that does come at the risk of marring Donner's revered verisimilitude
@@zingodoom A couple of things: A) I’m entirely aware that the cliffhanger ending - which, by the way, was an actual ending that was on the table during production of the film - was 40 years ahead of it’s time. That was actually the entire point of dragging the MCU into that comment, to bring up this thing which almost certainly wasn’t consciously referenced by the MCU’s sequel-baiting tactics, but is nevertheless eerily similar to them on principle and thus, proves that the movie was simply 40 years ahead of it’s time. B) while we’re bringing context to bear, keep in mind that the immediate context of my comment is a long time fan of this movie who would like to see an unofficial fan project put out. I’m not arguing that the “original” ending would have been received better than the one we got. That was why the ending was changed to begin with, because there needed to be a more resolution to the first movie. But, if what I’ve learned about this movie’s production is accurate, then it was originally kind of produced to be viewed as a double feature until the project went too far over budget and they needed to get the first movie finished for it’s deadline. So yeah, I acknowledge the reasons why we got what we got… I’m just saying that, since we have a “Donner Cut” of 2, it would be nice to get a “Donner Cut” of 1 (and yes, I know the special edition is the Donner Cut, but I mean a cut of both movies how Donner has described them from before he was fired)
If you ask me, Superman unwinding time in the first movie was fine and using this time reversal to undo all the damage and erase Lois' memory of his secret identity makes the whole sequel pointless. It's the same reason why Dragon Ball franchise has become so tedious since the Dragon Balls are just an instant reset button.
Pretty late with this but the difference between this and the Dragon Balls is that everyone still remembers EVERYTHING that went down prior to using them. Heck even with Whis' introduction into the story they at least made so HIS ability to go back in time had its limitations. He could only go back to up to like a minute at least whilst allowing some people to remember what happened prior to him using his ability. It's different from how Superman has used it here and as it's shown here, it only just makes the story completely pointless thanks to him doing this.
Even though this is extremely well done, if Superman can just reverse things that happened then what the hell was the point in the events that did happen?
No, the time reversal was originally planned for the second movie, but the producers wanted a flashier ending for the first movie and made Donner change it to use it then; before ultimately firing Donner from finishing the second movie (since he was working on both back to back)
The Richard Donner cut was CRAP if it had been released instead of Richard Lester,s cut it would have been even more worse than Superman 4. Richard Lester did a fantastic job in fact it was my favourite film I saw in 1981 at my local cinema the ABC in Dover
Some of the footage in the 1981 film was done by Donner. He just didn't take credit. Lester finished the scenes that needed to be shot and reshot some scenes so he could then get a credit on the film.
I don’t like this. He already turned back time in the first movie. And I know some people might not like the memory wipe kiss (even thought he can do that in the comics) but at least he didn’t turn back time. Maybe instead of the kiss Lois leaves Metropolis so she can be save. It’s just my opinion.
When they completed the first movie’s script, they didn’t have an ending. They were originally going to use time travel for this movie but they had to get something done for the 1978 film, so they took this movies ending. Which is why Lester’s movie has a different ending.
@@keijijohnson9754 Well…….sort of. They already had half of the second movie shot under Donner, since the original plan was shooting both 1 and 2 at the same time, but then production issues were fueled by disagreements and arguments with the Salkinds. This eventually led to Donner being fired from the movie and that’s when Lester was put in to finish it, also having to reshoot major scenes two or so years later. While the Donner Cut does reuse the first movies ending, it was pieced together to be as accurate as possible to his original vision, which is why it seems lacking in some areas. I’m more than confident that if he was given the time and resources to make a new ending, he absolutely would’ve.
After say out of all superman actors Christopher reeve is simply the best just wish he would have fought better with style he knows all fighting techniques more so than batman
![Superman vs General Zod [Part 1] | Superman 2](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MJKqPbvf8MI/mqdefault.jpg)
![Superman vs General Zod [Part 1] | Superman 2](/img/tr.png)
If Donner was able to finish the movie, I'm sure he and the writers would have figured a way to end the movie differently. However, this end represents how the sequel was going to end in the initial script.
Well originally in the first movie was gonna end on a cliffhanger but they decided to change it cause they were worried the movie would fail
@@matthewawesomeness7775 Yeah, I know that. I feel it works much better as a resolution for dramatic effect in Superman I. It doesn't work entirely well in the Donner Cut, as it kinda makes the whole movie insignificant. However, it is what it is. I'm glad the cut exists just to show fans what was originally intended.
@@Dohsoda Interesting thing about the Donner ending, originally, Clarke was suppose to slip a Krytonian pill that erases Lois' memory before it was changed to the super-kiss.
He did this by giving Lois a drink of water, before he sneaks the pill into her drink and then boom, instant memory wipe. A little more creepy in retrospective, but a little better than the super kiss?
Supposedly there is another ending where Superman turns over the depowered Zod Trio to Arctic authorities.
Unpopular Opinion: I like the Donner's Cut better, of course it has some flaws, but I think some aspects/scenes are making more sense, and I always appreciate the director's original vision more, because this is HIS movie, not the studio's. And I wouldn't call superman time reversal power as time travel, it'll be much more sensical if we can view it as "Thermodynamic Reversal", in which Superman can reverse the thermodynamics of an entire planet down to its core, down to every single subatomic particle that makes up the entire Earth by encircling it at an unimaginable speed, spreading his aura throughout the world.
2:06 clearly new footage. Look close enough you can see a modern day taxi in the background.
That’s always annoyed me. How hard would it have been to use 1970s stock footage
I get the feeling it’s from Superman Returns.
Hmmm... I think it could've been interesting to see how Perry White brushes his teeth with a cigar sticking from one side of his mouth.
Lol wtf
He would've taken it out, of course.
Superman is the man superman two this one of the greatest superhero movies ever made Every time I watch it it always makes me feel good
When saw Superman 2 donner’s cut is was like what is happening. Then I was like holy shit, he rewinded time again
True, but the *Character* Kal El reverses time once. That is why it is excluded from the STM recap at the begining of S2 Donner cut
The two films were shot together. I don't know how the og ending of the first film was meant to be but I get the impression he wasn't supposed to do it twice.
@@integrity101 this was the real ending to 2.
@@highjim7778
I know
@@adrianomoraes5992 he's not supposed to do it twice. That's why the Donner cut starts off w/ a disclaimer
Great The only one Superman
This ending is very underappreciated. Assuming the ending was not used at the end of part 1, this would have been the ultimate "gag" and a perfect way to cap off Donner's Superman saga. It is a very meta comment on how serial and comic book storytelling so often tries to reset the storyline back to where it started so that nothing ever really changes in the premise of the series. It's also a comment on how audiences take movies too seriously. The Superman movies just want to be there to show the audience a good time. This scene would force the audience to realize that what they just saw didn't amount to anything in the end but was still incredibly entertaining. I think it is very motivated in the story because Superman cannot stand to see the heart broken of the woman he loves.
It has a lot more to it than Lois. He didnt reverse the earth in 2 for Lois.
@@integrity101 I think he did. He knew he made a mistake by giving up his powers. He saw that Lois' heart was broken. And he saw their friendship would be hard to continue with her knowing his identity and knowing what happened between them. So he is reversing the Earth to get their relationship back to normal. There's no other reason to do it. The villains were defeated. It's unclear whether reversing time would get Jor-El back in the Fortress or not. But he made Lois lose her memory with the kiss in the theatrical part 2, and this is how the same thing is done in the Donner cut.
A bit of a cobbled-together mess but a nice indication of what Donner wanted. I appreciated the use of the beautiful Fortress of Solitude theme (but then what John Williams music isn't beautiful?)
I love this scene from superman too I'm glad they finally put it on TH-cam😀👍
This is where the Donner cut totally loses me. I realize that this was the originally intended ending to Superman II, but it works so much better as the emotional climax of the first Superman film. Here it just makes Superman look lazy and dumb. The much maligned "super-kiss" from the Lester version is much more creative and satisfying.
kingdickthefirst no
In theory, this isnt 100% the original ending, in the full Donner version, Lois was going to die, not in the first one, so, it would be more emotional than having it in the first one.
@@nearmintcondition3737 When would she have died? I mean the tearful farewell on the balcony was shot by Donner and intended to be in his Superman 2. Are we missing the part where she jumped off the roof to her death?
@@jedijones In my opinion, at some point at the final battle with Zod, she would have died, later Sups defeats Zod and then he unwinds time.
@@nearmintcondition3737 Just not the original intent or what Donner shot. He shot the part where she hugs Supes after Zod's defeat and when they say good-bye on her expensive rooftop apartment.
I actually love this scene because it’s symbolic of (mostly) putting this movie back to the way it should’ve been with Donner’s footage.
And to me this is the finale of the Reeve/Donnerverse, Clark’s smile combined with the music at 2:44 is so happily cathartic.
Me too.
The 4 hour two part epic Donner originally visioned. And in 2006, it was finally restored thank God.
If Superman was able to turn back time even erasing what the Phantom Zone villains did, then how would the people at the diner even remember who Clark Kent was and the damage that was done in the final scene?
Is it me or is the turning back time thing even worst this way? At least he was motivated in the other version
Lol and if that was the ending then superman returns makes no sense. It didn’t really anyway but still.
Agreed. Even though the mind-wipe kiss is just as ridiculous, I prefer it over the time travel. This version takes all the responsibility off his shoulders. He can just do this whenever he chooses? Ridiculous.
@@will_sketch
No the character of Superman does it once. Not twice. It works much better in 2 than in 1. In 2 he is actually in a relationship with Lois. So he defeated the villians, saved earth, put ZOD & co back in phantom zone, restored all national monuments, prevented the public from having to live in fear going forward & reset his relationship with Lois because she is heartbroken about their break up which must occur. Jor El warned Kal of this. So he accomplished much more spinning the earth in 2. Jor El is now gone forever, the fortress is destroyed and Kal El has officially become a man. The kryptonian prophecy is complete. It's Supermans decision not Jor Els and Kal did what he thought was best. Now Kal El embraced earth as his home too & he understands how important he is to the world going forward.
@@integrity101 "once. Not twice." This is assuming he did not already do it in the first film. But he did. The film is finished and released. Its canon. So if you consider the Donner Cut canon, which I do not... then he turned back time twice. Very irresponsible. In order for the character of Superman to become a better hero, he has to face great loss. We can't just have him lawlessly rewriting the course of history. This is what Jor-El was trying to teach him by saying it is forbidden. Plus, "even for those tasks which human beings could solve for themselves. It is their habit to abuse their resources in such a way." By doing this in part two, he is not letting humans face consequences. He's has to learn that he can't save everyone all the time.
So, the time travel works better in part one. because he didn't do it for the world. He made a selfish choice to save ONE life. Which was already set up in the beginning fo the film. It was a call back to losing Jonathan. He couldn't save his dad, but he could save Lois. Who was he saving in part 2? Why were the stakes so high that he had to time travel? To fix some statues and put three mass murderers back in the phantom zone?
@@will_sketch
The consequences are in 2. He made a dreadful mistake and there were serious consequences unlike Lester 2. The whole story with Jor El is screwed up by having him reverse the earth in 1. When he spins the earth in 1 they essentially condensed his entire arc for both films into a 3 minute scene in 1. He isnt supposed to interfere with human history until his dad is gone. Why doesnt jor el mention it to kal after lois dies? Not to mention he defies his father over a girl he has a crush on at work. In 2 he is in a relationship. he made major mistake and dealt with the consequences of getting his powers back. He is still a rookie superman. Kal El is not a fully formed Superman until he says "General would u care to step outside/havent u heard of freedom of the press?" Kal El doesnt truly grow up & become a man until that point.
This is why fans crying about Man Of Steel Superman fighting in the city while Donners Superman took his fight with Zod out of the city simply didnt get the stories. At all. They are at completely different points in their lives. Its apples to oranges.
As for canon, i think its beyond stupid that anyone cares about that stuff. Ya watch whatever sequels ya wanna watch. If ya wanna watch the true story you watch the Donner films. Superman 2 the Donner cut is far & away the superior version as it is the true continuation of the story and reviews clearly prove it. Despite the myths & general narrative there is a misunderstanding as it is more complete than Lesters version. That's a fact. Lester did a bad job compared to Donner. He was competent but Lester is only there to give us the cheapest film possible. Thata literally why his version exists. Why do u think he reshot so many cheap scenes that do nothing for the story.
S2 is not a sequel. It is literally the 2nd half of SUPERMAN THE MOVIE. Donner 2 is the 2 hour conclusion to SUPERMAN the movie. Lester 2 is a sequel superman episode not a conclusion to SUPERMAN the movie. It's one big 4.5 hour movie if u watch Donners films The end of STM is simply the half way point.
As for spinning the earth twice you are mistaken. Obviously you see a scene in both films no one is debating that but the audience is expected to be intelligent enough to realize what they are watching. The character of Superman spins the earth once. He doesnt go around reversing the earth everyday. Thats silly. He does it one time. Superman the movie was finished incorrectly not S2.
I don't know what's worse honestly. Screwing up time again, or the memory erasing kiss.
The time thing makes more sense.
Superman moving faster than flash again.
Ridiculous! Why bother fight villains when you can reverse time? Lester has a better logic
Do you want to see logic in a movie of a man who can fly ?? Do yourself a favor and save us from stupidity, go watch Harry Potter who is more like your spoiled child.
So exactly how far back does Superman turn back the clock? Is it to the day before the Lex Luthor-redirected missiles head for California and Hackensack? Will Zod, Non and Ursa have any memory of the events that happened after they're re-trapped back into the Phantom Zone? Does this mean that the Fortress of Solitude has been rebuilt and that Jor-El is alive again?
To the missile that he threw. I'd assume he'd destroy it before it opened the Phantom Zone.
@@probot6515 That's what he did. So the villains wouldn't escape again.
I guess the Fortress is back. They didn't bother with that.
He went back too far and accidentally shot his baby self back into space.
I really enjoyed the movie until they just redid the ending to the first one
I remember watching the original version of Superman 2. It was my favorite of the franchise. When I saw the “Richard Donner Cut” on a TV broadcast, I didn’t know it was the RDC version, because it wasn’t labeled as such. I was stunned when I saw those new scenes, remembering that they weren’t like that, and in some scenes, i was... confused. From that point on, I thought the original version of Superman 2 I saw was some kind of Mandela Effect, but then I found out that the version I saw on that TV broadcast was the RDC version, because Donner couldn’t finish the film due to being replaced by another director during the progress of the film’s development.
It’s just… interesting to know that it was the Richard Donner version…
he just trasport him self to the past at speed of light, another universe, another time space, the earth just continue his own time
or what if him reversing time caused superman: secret origin to happen instead.
And if I could I would make a wish that I had the power to turn back time
Me too.
Eat your heart doctor strange.
That's not Margot Kidder behind the typewritter, but I would never have guessed.
That is exactly what I was going to say !! Who is that actress??
@@reboniak1966 Someone they got to be a stand in. They did the same thing for Clark in the window when Lois falls.
Doesn't make sense that when he reverses time this time around Zod would end up back in the phantom zone when the nuke exposed and let them out ages away from Earth, this time travel turn back thing was Earth only, so it would only send Zod back to just before he went into Earths atmosphere, not the entire universe, if this makes any sense at all
The nuke couldn't have been far from Earth when it hit the Phantom Zone.
I just realized that one of best ways to watch Superman 2 is just watch the Donner Cut and skip the time travel shit. This maintains the emotional moments and ends the film with trucker scene. I appreciate the continuity and tone of Donner’s Cut, but I hate the time travel
Yes.
so he turned back time twice in the donner version?
The original idea for the ending in first move was that Superman trow the 2nd rocket into space making it explode at the phantom zone prison what would make Zod and the other free.
But the investors disliked the cliff hanger ending and wanted a "real ending".
So they took the ending of the 2nd movie and change few things in the script, that is how we got the ending we have now
And to complete your answer, Donner was fired before production could resume and a new ending written. So technically there was no ending to the Donner version of Superman II.
min 1:44 she is not margot kidder right?
I don't believe 1:32 is Jackie Cooper either
No it’s not
@@creamofchris Yes it is J Cooper
Perry's always smoking a cigar, notice? And I guess he feels better now from that head injury Non gave him.
Don't like it ... why didn't he just do that as soon as he got his powers back
It's kinda pointless criticising the Donner cut for S2. You see what the intention was, and the ending here, that was used for S1, would have been rewritten to be something else and undoubtedly excellent. The amnesia kiss from Lester's S2 makes sense, and is superbly well acted. Overall, if I had one wish and could turn back time, it would be that Donner had originally finished S2. What a movie that would've been !
I love Donner but when it comes to SM2 I'm a Lester man. I love the "magic-kiss" . Something Supes has done many time in the old comics (hypnosis) and off topic but them same "broad" humor in SM 2 and SM3 was the same in SM 1. Also, would have sworn Lester directed Supergirl ( which I love) because I felt the humor was the same. Pro Lester and pro SG 84!
Is this Richard donnor's cut ???
Erawan EL yes
I didn't know superman has flash's power
@@SabbatarianSundayer. Lois*
Jeffrey Xiong of course superman does
The Theatrical Cut was very so much better!
This specific scene is the ONLY thing holding back the Donner Cut. It was added in post-production.
2:45 is where hope comes from
Hate, hate, HATED this ending. It's one thing to turn back earth time an hour or so to save your girlfriend, but the whole movie? Fuck off, film.
Frankly both endings (the memory-erasing kiss and the time-rewinding) have each their own merits (with the latter being really spectacular and thrilling).
But to me, neither is entirely satisfactory. The kiss of oblivion voids the entire romance between Superman and Lois. Going back in time renders the movie's entire plot pointless.
I think the filmmakers should've simply left it there with Lois knowing Superman's secret identity and keeping it to herself. That would've made a more dramatic conclusion as she would've had to suffer in silence, knowing she would never be able to resume her relationship with Supes. She would then come across as an even stronger and braver character.
Sometimes, the best things in life are the simplest.
I like the kiss more still as who knows, maybe she could recover her memory somehow. .maybe he just needs to kiss her again. But it's infinitely better for actually having happened.
@@jackthegreek6092 Did you watch Superman IV? You don’t have to admit it but I watched it, and in my defense I was only seven years old and I didn’t know any better. Anyhow Superman kisses Lois and restores her memory of the events of Superman II. Then, after flying around with her for a while he wipes her memory with another kiss. I wonder how many times he’s kissed her to make her forget stuff since he can tamper with Lois’ memory at will.
@@bratton79 Wow, no that was just my speculation I didn't even know that happened.
@@jackthegreek6092 I agree with you, the memory-erasing kiss is actually the better of the two versions shot.
This should not have been in the movie.
it was in the directors cut not the one that actually was in the movies
Exactly. WASN'T in the movie. It was in the Richard Donner cut.
Was in the alternate version of the movie.
That isn’t even Margot’s voice
It would be prosaic licence anyway. Even turning the Earth backwards in its rotation doesn't turn back time. Time would still be going forward but the planet spinning backwards, surely
It is forbidden to interfere with human history!!
That's a point where I think they should just end the film there without the unnecessary time travel.
It wouldn't be a bad point for moving forward Lois knew his secret identity and they had to work their feelings moving forward. Also Fortress of Solitude stays destroyed.
It just feels a step back to have the whole film undone after all the emotional arc and character development with this, back to status quo as if nothing happened and if there's a nuclear something those three can be freed again instead of ending up powerless in sone prison with Lex or serving burgers in Detroit. And Lois eventually deducing his secret identity again.
I'm sorry I don't agree with this, Donner did some good editing and cut out a few bad clips and scenes like Lois falling out of the window instead of the Niagra falls scene but to do the time travel again makes it a look like a bad sequel, the idea of him erasing Lois's memory with a powerful kiss makes it more romantic and then they go back to being Lois and Clark. And plus it doesn't go with him getting revenge on Rocky at the end because if he turned back time Rocky or anyone in the Diner would not remember him.
Ugh, not the time travel thing again
We got people saying 2 AND too...
Which is it?
So he unwinds time and now he has to fight the 3 enemies again ? WTF
No, the whole point is that he rewound time to before they were released from the Phantom Zone, with the intention of preventing them from getting out in the first place.
@@stargazer1682 i don't think Supes actually knew how or when he released them as he did it purely by accident.
@@stargazer1682 He also rewound time in Donner cut to repair all damage done to city while he and the three villains were duking it out; at least that's how I personally interpret it I actually like this better than the kiss in the Lester cut.
@@johnedsel He knew. He saw how and when the interdimensional prison holding them was destroyed in the first place because he saw it being UNdestroyed, and he also knew that he was fast enough to divert the first missile onto a different trajectory that would miss the prison AND prevent the second missile from indirectly killing Lois. That's why he had that great big smile at the end.
I know literally nothing about the fan edit scene, but if I had the know-how to do a fan edit, I would edit a version of Superman 1+2 where Superman makes it to Lois’ car in time and she does not get buried and die, making the time travel scene in Superman 1 unnecessary. You then edit the full Superman 1 time travel scene (including the cloud Jor-El with his warning of tampering with human history) back into Superman 2
Donner claims that the reason for time travel in Superman 1 was because they didn’t think it would be as dramatic or satisfying without it, but I disagree. The moral of Superman 1 imo is that even though he’s Superman, he can’t save everyone. Having him then travel back in time to save everyone flies in the face of the central theme. Having him make it to Lois, if nothing else, saves you from this strange paradox. The dramatic punch would be to add in the missile freeing General Zod at the ending of Superman 1 and putting in text along the lines of “To be continued in Superman 2.” That gives you a huge dramatic gut punch and ties the movies together well. We know this sort of thing can work in a post Infinity War-Endgame world, even though it was quite ahead of it’s time in 1978
In the world where this edit would exist, you have two very different versions of the Superman franchise available to folks. One where Superman doesn’t make it to Lois, she dies, he goes back in time, then you see the Richard Lester movies continue that story. But in an alternate world, Superman makes it to Lois and doesn’t travel through time until the ending of Superman 2, and that’s as close as you can get to the Richard Donner vision of Superman. In both versions of the franchise, Superman only uses his ability to travel through time once (because it’s a violation of his father’s will and he would never want to use it again after the first time), and you get a chance to stifle some of the people who think Richard Donner’s Superman always resorts to traveling back in time to solve all his problems
It would be interesting to see him defy Jor-El after Jor-El's death. We never get to see Jor-El react to Superman defying his orders in part 1, because everything Donner shot for Jor-El in part 2 was shot before they moved that ending to part 1.
While on paper, the idea of Superman (1978) ending with a "to be continued" sounds like an interesting hook, it's certainly not as *dramatic*, which I think is the key point. Moreover, however, that would be an extremely risky move. You compare it to Infinity War and Endgame, but aside from the fact that both franchises are in the superhero genre, it's apples to oranges. By the late 2010s, the MCU has cemented itself as a guaranteed moneymaker in a genre that's generally considered safe already. When these movies were being made, it's not like superhero films were revolutionary new ideas, but nor were they something taken for granted. Had the first film underperformed, the producers could very well have pulled the carpet from under Superman II, and you'd have a "to be continued" that never continues - which has happened in a number of other films
I'm not saying that the first film *had* to end with the time travel in order to guarantee its success. I think what you propose would have been just as successful as a film, but honestly, I don't think it would be as satisfying in retrospect. Ideally, I'd have loved if Donner were able to create his original idea for the film - that is, what we have now as Superman 1 and 2 in one go. The running time would be insane. You'd probably have something with a running time approaching Snyder's Justice League, which would *not* have flown (no pun intended) in a late 70s, early 80s theater. But I can dream
Or, as others have said, I would be alright with a fan edit of Superman II's Donner cut that changes the ending to reinsert Lester's "magical amnesia kiss", even if that does come at the risk of marring Donner's revered verisimilitude
@@zingodoom A couple of things:
A) I’m entirely aware that the cliffhanger ending - which, by the way, was an actual ending that was on the table during production of the film - was 40 years ahead of it’s time. That was actually the entire point of dragging the MCU into that comment, to bring up this thing which almost certainly wasn’t consciously referenced by the MCU’s sequel-baiting tactics, but is nevertheless eerily similar to them on principle and thus, proves that the movie was simply 40 years ahead of it’s time.
B) while we’re bringing context to bear, keep in mind that the immediate context of my comment is a long time fan of this movie who would like to see an unofficial fan project put out. I’m not arguing that the “original” ending would have been received better than the one we got. That was why the ending was changed to begin with, because there needed to be a more resolution to the first movie. But, if what I’ve learned about this movie’s production is accurate, then it was originally kind of produced to be viewed as a double feature until the project went too far over budget and they needed to get the first movie finished for it’s deadline. So yeah, I acknowledge the reasons why we got what we got… I’m just saying that, since we have a “Donner Cut” of 2, it would be nice to get a “Donner Cut” of 1 (and yes, I know the special edition is the Donner Cut, but I mean a cut of both movies how Donner has described them from before he was fired)
If you ask me, Superman unwinding time in the first movie was fine and using this time reversal to undo all the damage and erase Lois' memory of his secret identity makes the whole sequel pointless. It's the same reason why Dragon Ball franchise has become so tedious since the Dragon Balls are just an instant reset button.
Pretty late with this but the difference between this and the Dragon Balls is that everyone still remembers EVERYTHING that went down prior to using them. Heck even with Whis' introduction into the story they at least made so HIS ability to go back in time had its limitations. He could only go back to up to like a minute at least whilst allowing some people to remember what happened prior to him using his ability. It's different from how Superman has used it here and as it's shown here, it only just makes the story completely pointless thanks to him doing this.
And then he goes into the bar to beat up an innocent if nasty man.
1:45 that doesn't look like Margot Kidder
Anne Archer?
Even though this is extremely well done, if Superman can just reverse things that happened then what the hell was the point in the events that did happen?
The Richard Donner Cut
I'm really interested to see This version..
Was better that that "amnesia kiss"
both are stupid and lazy
He forgot actually do that with the moon... I think he really could affect time in such manner locally...
I need to watch this cut of the movie again, but does anyone know when this film is supposed to take place compared to the first one?
So does this mean the 3 super baddies are on ther way to earth again and start all over ?
I didn’t care for their choice of stock footage. It looks too new and clean.
I thought donner never filmed the ending ? Is there more to this on the released donner cut ?
I think he never wrote the ending that's why it is the same as the first movie.
two movies in a row same technique, this is what I call recycling.
No, the time reversal was originally planned for the second movie, but the producers wanted a flashier ending for the first movie and made Donner change it to use it then; before ultimately firing Donner from finishing the second movie (since he was working on both back to back)
Zod, Ursa and Non are imprisoned back in the Phantom Zone
Superman can outrun a Train,and Unlike Cher,Yes He Can Turn Back Time
Could someone explain to me what the purpose was for him turning back time in this particular scene compared to the 1st one
Because he’s been through so much in this film and decided to reverse time all the way back to the beginning.
No regreso en el tiempo la primera pelea del bar verdad ?
Shit, he'll start doing this if he forgets to buy toothpaste.
I love Superman and Superman 2 but didn't like this scene. If he could do this now he could do this in the future. And I thought it was a bit lame
This was by far the lamest of many lame things about the totally lame (IMO) Superman II: Donner Cut.
the power rangers could have used superman when they were turned into kids lol he could have jut put the earth back
True, but they still would have ended up becoming the Zeo Rangers.
Perry White is gonna brush his teeth while smoking a cigar ok then lol
I wish I can do that
2:44 looks really weird. Is it some kind of a composite image of Reeve with a stand in? He looks bizarre and overweight. 😂
The Richard Donner cut was CRAP if it had been released instead of Richard Lester,s cut it would have been even more worse than Superman 4. Richard Lester did a fantastic job in fact it was my favourite film I saw in 1981 at my local cinema the ABC in Dover
Some of the footage in the 1981 film was done by Donner. He just didn't take credit. Lester finished the scenes that needed to be shot and reshot some scenes so he could then get a credit on the film.
I don’t like this. He already turned back time in the first movie.
And I know some people might not like the memory wipe kiss (even thought he can do that in the comics) but at least he didn’t turn back time.
Maybe instead of the kiss Lois leaves Metropolis so she can be save.
It’s just my opinion.
I don't understand why did he had to reverse time.
He didn't. This was added in post production by fans.
Esto es lo único que no me gusta del Donner Cut
Why does he rewind time twice???
When they completed the first movie’s script, they didn’t have an ending. They were originally going to use time travel for this movie but they had to get something done for the 1978 film, so they took this movies ending. Which is why Lester’s movie has a different ending.
So it's basically just straight up lazy writing then! @@lukestantz12
@@keijijohnson9754 Well…….sort of. They already had half of the second movie shot under Donner, since the original plan was shooting both 1 and 2 at the same time, but then production issues were fueled by disagreements and arguments with the Salkinds. This eventually led to Donner being fired from the movie and that’s when Lester was put in to finish it, also having to reshoot major scenes two or so years later. While the Donner Cut does reuse the first movies ending, it was pieced together to be as accurate as possible to his original vision, which is why it seems lacking in some areas. I’m more than confident that if he was given the time and resources to make a new ending, he absolutely would’ve.
What happens if Lois was pregnant ????? 😮
Rated R Kills Blood 😅😅😅😅😅😅
Sorry, but the original part 2 is better.
After say out of all superman actors Christopher reeve is simply the best just wish he would have fought better with style he knows all fighting techniques more so than batman
Tyler Hoechlin says hello.
When my GF broke my heart I'll do the same thing quicker
hehe, if Superman reversed the globe all life would end in milliseconds. think of the sub that imploded.