Yea. I was questioning how would a fuel pump jump time while cam and crank are in. Still a ridiculous strategy in my opinion. But in this case if the strategy was different it could have potentially needed an engine. What was the craziest thing you seen at Honda ?
Great job ,your diagnostic process and knowledge of your equipment is spot on.you have to have confidence in your knowledge to recommend a job that big great video thanks for sharing
Yea having the special tools makes it easier. When you don't have a tool and you need to improvise it can get a little scary. I did a timing belt on a friends audi a few years ago. The special tool I brought did not fit. Changed our whole procedure.
Excellent Video man, what a great diagnostic approach. That is a big time consuming job to go at on a whim. So it was good to see all the steps to figuring out it was an actual mechanical problem. Great work and keep them coming!!
I could have used that VAS-6394 today! I had a 2014 Audi with a 2.0T with a P2188 System too rich at idle. Had fuel trims maxed at -50% intermittently. Everything checked in spec (MAF, AF sensor, Fuel pressure, no intake leaks, crankcase vacuum normal, etc). It ended up being a skewed fuel rail pressure sensor that was in spec but reading the incorrect pressure. Do you see a lot of these fuel rail pressure sensors failing on VW/Audi DGI engines?
So if a vehicle has a high rail pressure and pump is driven directly by cam, what would be a possible cause? I'm working on a 2006 sprinter. I have concluded the FPR has failed mechanically, but flushing the lines and filtering the fuel in the tank produced no signs of containments. So I'm stumped at the reason for it. Next is taking apart the HPFP. Any ideas? High fuel rail pressure will keep this vehicle from starting, correct?
Awesome video, good call on the cam timing its always hard to determine if it is off when comparing scope captures because the unknown was a little bit off compared to the known good, it wasn't much but sometimes it don't take much to cause problems.
It was slightly different but the cam crank timing was on. It wasn't enough for me to say there was a cam crank timing issue. It was the fuel pump timing that was out
My curiosity is whether the cam crank after the repair matches the known good capture better with the exhaust rising edge being closer to 4 3/4 notches from crank sync. The intake on the known good was not as noticeably different from the problem car though Just thinking the change off the broken guide causing that slight variance in the cam crank relationship. Nice diagnosis. Love it when relatively similar failures come in making the knowledge from previous diag become crucial to this diag. Thanks for the great video!.
Great diagnosis. I think the ECM went to maximum pressure as a default strategy, to protect the engine once it detected there was a problem with the pump timing. I wonder if you could scope the fuel pressure sensor with a very small time base so you could see all the little pressure fluctuations from iniector openings and the cam lobes, then try and time that to cylinder firing events? Just a thought. I don't work on any VWs so I'm not able to.
So the ECM was trying to lower the pressure and it's why it read over 90%DC @ the sensor/regulator? Or commanding a high pressure cond? Also what kind of mileage on this vehicle? Thanks for the video.
Positive Lead Diagnostics hmm trying to understand why the ecm would knowingly raise the pressure when it already knows it's too high. Why not command to try and lower the pressure instead then set a code for excessive fuel pressure. Or maybe with the jumped timing on the pump side, the pressure was too low and it's why it went to almost 100%dc to raise it? I'm curious what the commanded dc%@idle would be after the repair or a known good. Thanks for the great videos.
I had the same question. The only answer is when the high psi fuel pump is out of time it will cause high rail pressure. On this engine the way the the lobes were designed on the hpfp apparently correspond to each cylinder when approaching tdc. If the ecm doesn't see a pressure pulse at the right time this is what happens. Still a lot of unanswered questions
Positive Lead Diagnostics Ah ok so it's Biased to High Pressure when there's some type of error detected by ecm, that makes alot sense. Thanks again my friend.
apparently I accidently bought a pump thats for the 2012-2014 passat 3.6l and I have a 2008 passat 3.6l I have been dealing with low rail pressure, and have checked everything. I didn't think about it but it didnt start happening till after I changed the pump. I changed the pump due to codes that ended up being a leaking intake. Thats all fixed, but now I have this low pressure. Whats the diff between a 2008-2011 and a 2012-2014 3.6l? The price of the pump is double, but the look identical. Im wondering if it's just the regulator solenoid thats diff? or is actually something different in the pump?
@@williamsantana370 The pump I had was garbage. Sandblasted junk from Ebay. I ended up buying a new pump, but still have issues, I think the junk pump shorted out the control circuit in the PCM. I've just been driving it the way it is, but it runs slow as shit now. Too bad you can't just swap out a used PCM without having it programmed like back in the day. I'm sure it has to be matched with the key and all that or it wont start.
Hey Tom! I dont know if this falls in your video type, but is there a way to tell if the battery in a car is bad with a multimeter, should a healthy battery read a specific voltage, and if the battery is fine, is there a way to diagnose if it is a bad alternator?
I had a auction car 2010 equinox with a 2013 engine replacement in it set current high pressure fuel pump codes like yours and pump screaming loud. What caused that is 2010 intake camshaft had less lobes for the pump to drive on. Put a 2013 camshaft in and it’ll overdrive the pump and cause high fuel pressure.
The gauge was installed where the rail psi sensor threads in. I removed the sensor installed the gauge then installed the sensor in the top of the gauge.
I have the same problems with a 2012 vw gti 2.0t TSI p0088 I replace hight pressure fuel pump and sensor and I did a valve job on in new tensioner an chain and I don’t know what’s wrong And I doble check timing anda bitwins cam it’s on spec 125 mm help
I would check timing again. It’s very easy for the lower cog on the crankshaft to slightly turn off of its mark. Your timing marks will still line up but it is actually off. Not sure what tools you have but I would do a cam crank relation waveform. Check the control circuit on the high pressure pump. And probably some in cylinder pressure waveforms.
good evening I do like how you diagnosis this car and I have questions about this fuel pressure gauge from where you buy it ? hope to hear from you soon
I'm getting the p0088 fuel rail/system pressure too high for both sensors on my 09 cc vr6, I was thinking this would be just a replacement of the the sensors but by this video I might be in for a major service charge
You have to remove the gearbox to do the chain huh!! that's some hours involved Could you explain to me how as we see the pump out of time, how come the fuel pressure regulator is being commanded to max out the pressure? If it saw the pressure rise above the target specs, shouldn't the computer be trying to bleed off as much pressure as it could? I'm not sure how the system works but if you know, and could answer that'd be great
Initially the computer wants to see pressure rises from the lobes of the pump and these pressure rises should occur at a certain point on the cam/ckp. The computer logic knows where Tdc for each cylinder is. If those pressure rises do not occur at the right time the computer will flag a fault and turns the regulator on full bore. Why...I don't know. I feel that the fuel psi sensor should be the input for this hpfp regulator. But if that were the case we would have never known this veh had a broken guide
I didn't see it very well, but is that chain which has a broken guide directly connected to crankshaft-camshaft.... by that i mean was there any damage on valves and pistons due to chain skip...
I've would've never thought a timing issue would've caused a fuel pressure issue great diagnosis one questions why are you using a snap on diagnostic tool if you work at a dealer? Is it just faster? Why not VCDS ?
Right. It's a strategy programmed in the computers logic. I don't like the factory scantool. And I don't have a vcds...yet. I have been thinking about it
Im chasing the same problem on an 09. replaced hp pump, mechanical regulator in the rail, and sensor, started with 156 bar, now down to 120+- 2. still throwing sensor code and p088,,guess ill be taking the intake and vc off to have a look inside.
Hi Daniel, have you ever found the problem on your vehicle yet ? I’ve got a 2011 Mk6 GTi , currently experiencing a extreme jerk under load, EPC light came on and got the P0088 code, Fuel Rail System Pressure Too High, as well as the speed sensor error, I am currently unable to get over 4rpm smoothly, can you assist based on your experiences thus far ?
ross-tech AKA vag-com has a measuring block to measure timing, I believe its bank 208 and 209, would this have helped in this situation? wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/17433/P1025/004133
schweeeet ..!!
again, a nice job in diagnosing that
SD would be proud
Man I learn so much on you tube it's crazy. I hate people that hate on using you tube
Great Job man....you solved a big headache...cause we change computer and wiring .sensors fuel pump etc...
This is brilliant detective work.
OMG It just gets nutzer every day! Thank God I am retired Great job man (30 year Honda tech)
Yea. I was questioning how would a fuel pump jump time while cam and crank are in. Still a ridiculous strategy in my opinion. But in this case if the strategy was different it could have potentially needed an engine. What was the craziest thing you seen at Honda ?
Great information. Seems like this is a common problem on this particular motor
Great job ,your diagnostic process and knowledge of your equipment is spot on.you have to have confidence in your knowledge to recommend a job that big great video thanks for sharing
Nice diagnosis & fix. It's nice to have all the special tools to make the job easier!
Yea having the special tools makes it easier. When you don't have a tool and you need to improvise it can get a little scary. I did a timing belt on a friends audi a few years ago. The special tool I brought did not fit. Changed our whole procedure.
Excellent Video man, what a great diagnostic approach. That is a big time consuming job to go at on a whim. So it was good to see all the steps to figuring out it was an actual mechanical problem. Great work and keep them coming!!
Right. I thought for sure the cam timing was going to show the problem Very time consuming.
Hi i am peruvian. sincerely, thanks you so much for your time. this video is invaluable for me. Good bless you.
your welcome thank you for supporting!!
Q3 fault code p08800 fuel rail pressure too high
I bet that was nice to see the broken guide! Fantastic work Tom
Absolutely! It all made sense!!
I got to hand it to you, very impressive diagnoses
I could have used that VAS-6394 today! I had a 2014 Audi with a 2.0T with a P2188 System too rich at idle. Had fuel trims maxed at -50% intermittently. Everything checked in spec (MAF, AF sensor, Fuel pressure, no intake leaks, crankcase vacuum normal, etc). It ended up being a skewed fuel rail pressure sensor that was in spec but reading the incorrect pressure.
Do you see a lot of these fuel rail pressure sensors failing on VW/Audi DGI engines?
very informative. I see why people tend to say VW's are hard.
Some can be difficult. I think the main problem is that you can't get any information. Even being at a dealer it's hard to get info
And for that particular reason we are relying on you!
@@PositiveLeadDiagnostics 067p797677u078jkhmmmuu00778877uu00oo067ùi0708979u76898o789o00778iu78877uuu07u790790779i908ppghduummjj8kkio8iolinpotpourrie444o99outu456p5654
So if a vehicle has a high rail pressure and pump is driven directly by cam, what would be a possible cause? I'm working on a 2006 sprinter. I have concluded the FPR has failed mechanically, but flushing the lines and filtering the fuel in the tank produced no signs of containments. So I'm stumped at the reason for it. Next is taking apart the HPFP. Any ideas? High fuel rail pressure will keep this vehicle from starting, correct?
Awesome video, good call on the cam timing its always hard to determine if it is off when comparing scope captures because the unknown was a little bit off compared to the known good, it wasn't much but sometimes it don't take much to cause problems.
It was slightly different but the cam crank timing was on. It wasn't enough for me to say there was a cam crank timing issue. It was the fuel pump timing that was out
My curiosity is whether the cam crank after the repair matches the known good capture better with the exhaust rising edge being closer to 4 3/4 notches from crank sync. The intake on the known good was not as noticeably different from the problem car though Just thinking the change off the broken guide causing that slight variance in the cam crank relationship. Nice diagnosis. Love it when relatively similar failures come in making the knowledge from previous diag become crucial to this diag. Thanks for the great video!.
Where i can buy that digital fuel gauge
Great diagnosis. I think the ECM went to maximum pressure as a default strategy, to protect the engine once it detected there was a problem with the pump timing. I wonder if you could scope the fuel pressure sensor with a very small time base so you could see all the little pressure fluctuations from iniector openings and the cam lobes, then try and time that to cylinder firing events? Just a thought. I don't work on any VWs so I'm not able to.
So the ECM was trying to lower the pressure and it's why it read over 90%DC @ the sensor/regulator? Or commanding a high pressure cond?
Also what kind of mileage on this vehicle? Thanks for the video.
The ecm was commanding this high pressure. I don't remember the exact mileage but it was relatively low.
Positive Lead Diagnostics hmm trying to understand why the ecm would knowingly raise the pressure when it already knows it's too high. Why not command to try and lower the pressure instead then set a code for excessive fuel pressure.
Or maybe with the jumped timing on the pump side, the pressure was too low and it's why it went to almost 100%dc to raise it? I'm curious what the commanded dc%@idle would be after the repair or a known good.
Thanks for the great videos.
I had the same question. The only answer is when the high psi fuel pump is out of time it will cause high rail pressure. On this engine the way the the lobes were designed on the hpfp apparently correspond to each cylinder when approaching tdc. If the ecm doesn't see a pressure pulse at the right time this is what happens. Still a lot of unanswered questions
Positive Lead Diagnostics Ah ok so it's Biased to High Pressure when there's some type of error detected by ecm, that makes alot sense.
Thanks again my friend.
Opel Meriva b 1.3 Shows 3000 kpa, Is it normal?
Hello My car gets to operating temperature it stall and won't start until it's cooled down any suggestions please I have a p2293 fault code
apparently I accidently bought a pump thats for the 2012-2014 passat 3.6l and I have a 2008 passat 3.6l
I have been dealing with low rail pressure, and have checked everything. I didn't think about it but it didnt start happening till after I changed the pump. I changed the pump due to codes that ended up being a leaking intake. Thats all fixed, but now I have this low pressure.
Whats the diff between a 2008-2011 and a 2012-2014 3.6l?
The price of the pump is double, but the look identical. Im wondering if it's just the regulator solenoid thats diff? or is actually something different in the pump?
I believe the 2012 version is direct injection high pressure fuel pump and the engines are diffrent they look the same but they're not
I know from trying to replace the valve cover and they wont fit there slightly diffrent
@@williamsantana370 The pump I had was garbage. Sandblasted junk from Ebay. I ended up buying a new pump, but still have issues, I think the junk pump shorted out the control circuit in the PCM. I've just been driving it the way it is, but it runs slow as shit now. Too bad you can't just swap out a used PCM without having it programmed like back in the day. I'm sure it has to be matched with the key and all that or it wont start.
Hey Tom! I dont know if this falls in your video type, but is there a way to tell if the battery in a car is bad with a multimeter, should a healthy battery read a specific voltage, and if the battery is fine, is there a way to diagnose if it is a bad alternator?
A good Battery should be around 12.6v. And should read around 10v when cranking. when running the alt should put out 13.5 -14.7 v
What did you had to get brand new ?
I had a auction car 2010 equinox with a 2013 engine replacement in it set current high pressure fuel pump codes like yours and pump screaming loud. What caused that is 2010 intake camshaft had less lobes for the pump to drive on. Put a 2013 camshaft in and it’ll overdrive the pump and cause high fuel pressure.
What engine was it and how did you fix the problem?
Ain't the fuel pump suppose to run on intake cam like the 2.0? What's going on here
Not on this style. It’s is timed and runs off of its own lobe on the timing chain
Interesting stuff, especially for us non VW/Euro guys. Good video!.
How many miles were on that, if you recall?
I think around 70k. Yea this info is hard to find around the dealer world. I can only imagine aftermarket
It's not less interesting for an Euro guy ;)
good diagnostic amigo excellent
great video liked the way you measured gdi high side pressure with a gauge was that a pressure test port you were on?
The gauge was installed where the rail psi sensor threads in. I removed the sensor installed the gauge then installed the sensor in the top of the gauge.
I have the same problems with a 2012 vw gti 2.0t TSI p0088 I replace hight pressure fuel pump and sensor and I did a valve job on in new tensioner an chain and I don’t know what’s wrong
And I doble check timing anda bitwins cam it’s on spec 125 mm help
I would check timing again. It’s very easy for the lower cog on the crankshaft to slightly turn off of its mark. Your timing marks will still line up but it is actually off. Not sure what tools you have but I would do a cam crank relation waveform. Check the control circuit on the high pressure pump. And probably some in cylinder pressure waveforms.
Where did you get the fuel gauge
good evening I do like how you diagnosis this car and I have questions about this fuel pressure gauge from where you buy it ?
hope to hear from you soon
that is owned by the audi dealer up the street, its a vw special tool
I'm getting the p0088 fuel rail/system pressure too high for both sensors on my 09 cc vr6, I was thinking this would be just a replacement of the the sensors but by this video I might be in for a major service charge
Every time I have seen this fault, it has been a fuel pump timing issue. Most likely it needs chains guides and fuel pump re timed.
are those timing chains hard to do and what is the flate rate time for that job
Not hard to do just time consuming. You have to remove the intake and valve cover. And the transmission.
And I think around 18 hours. Not 100% on that
How did you check the high side fuel pressure? Is that a VW special tool?
Yes. It's a digital fuel pressure gauge
Очень полезное видео, привет из Украины.
Great job
Great job Tom, thanks for share ☺
Thanks for watching. Glad you enjoyed it!!
Hi my good good friend Tommy!I already made my notes about it And prove what you said in the previous video!
Nice Pedro. Keep this on the back of your mind in case you get one
Excelente diagnóstico
Thanks
Good job with this one ;)
thanks!!
it is possible ive seen it a few times on 2018 atlas 3.6L vr6 they didnt time the hpp from factory.
same problem with my audi q7 😭😭 I need help to fix my car please somebody help me?
Why did you stop making videos?
My videos are on scannerdanner premium
You have to remove the gearbox to do the chain huh!! that's some hours involved
Could you explain to me how as we see the pump out of time, how come the fuel pressure regulator is being commanded to max out the pressure?
If it saw the pressure rise above the target specs, shouldn't the computer be trying to bleed off as much pressure as it could?
I'm not sure how the system works but if you know, and could answer that'd be great
Initially the computer wants to see pressure rises from the lobes of the pump and these pressure rises should occur at a certain point on the cam/ckp. The computer logic knows where Tdc for each cylinder is. If those pressure rises do not occur at the right time the computer will flag a fault and turns the regulator on full bore. Why...I don't know. I feel that the fuel psi sensor should be the input for this hpfp regulator. But if that were the case we would have never known this veh had a broken guide
was it the broken guide that caused the code
Broken guide caused the fuel pump to jump time. Which triggered the fault
I didn't see it very well, but is that chain which has a broken guide directly connected to crankshaft-camshaft.... by that i mean was there any damage on valves and pistons due to chain skip...
I've would've never thought a timing issue would've caused a fuel pressure issue great diagnosis one questions why are you using a snap on diagnostic tool if you work at a dealer? Is it just faster? Why not VCDS ?
Right. It's a strategy programmed in the computers logic. I don't like the factory scantool. And I don't have a vcds...yet. I have been thinking about it
Man where are you located? Need to bring my car to you
Pittsburgh, PA
This is the video I was going to suggest to you. I think this could be happening with your Touareg
יש מיישהו שיכול להסביר בעברית מה הבעיה ?
Im chasing the same problem on an 09. replaced hp pump, mechanical regulator in the rail, and sensor, started with 156 bar, now down to 120+- 2. still throwing sensor code and p088,,guess ill be taking the intake and vc off to have a look inside.
Hi Daniel, have you ever found the problem on your vehicle yet ?
I’ve got a 2011 Mk6 GTi , currently experiencing a extreme jerk under load, EPC light came on and got the P0088 code, Fuel Rail System Pressure Too High, as well as the speed sensor error, I am currently unable to get over 4rpm smoothly, can you assist based on your experiences thus far ?
ross-tech AKA vag-com has a measuring block to measure timing, I believe its bank 208 and 209, would this have helped in this situation? wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/17433/P1025/004133
It would not have helped because this vehicle was not out of time. Only the fuel pump was
Top ok
I didnt see the video but im guessing it the probelm was the direct injection high pressure fuel pump wasnt it
It was not a pump problem, you should watch it