Actually, it is not. Oxhorn only gives you “facts” that lead to the conclusion that he wants you to have. He ignores any evidence that proves him wrong. For example, there are serious challenges to the idea that Turing killed himself. IE, the Jews he speaks of who were the subjects of Nazi experiments were freed by war. He is quite poor at research.
It's been said that the no one knows what weapons will be used in the third world war, but the fourth world war will be fought with sticks and stones. Assuming, that is, there's anyone left to fight it.
My personal opinion about this phase is, war never changes because, even though the players(factions), politics, confilcts, and technologies have changed, the human nuture of conflict doesn't change. Where ever there are humans, there will be conflicts, and this doesn't change no matter what state of the world we're in.
I did find it interesting that in Fallout 4, the factions of the Brotherhood, Minute Men, Railroad, and the Institute have good intentions. Even if misguided, they all want the best for humanity.
@@TrailCamCaptures Yep. I think one of the very very few factions that are truly, inherently evil with blatant evil intentions is the Enclave, and the other being Ceaser's Legion.
@@shawnwolf5961 and even there you can find "good people" that believed in the "good" side enclave even when they clearly see the bad intentions all to give back something that no longer exist or even ally whith them cause they could bring them the tech they need for greater good, just like this scientist of fallout 2 and new vegas that later with other former members will try to give a "good end" to the name that decades before means fear and death
@@shawnwolf5961 Exactly. The Enclave and The Legion are the most evil factions. But it also cements the words said by @oxhorn in this vid. War never changes, because humans never change. Enclave is the remnants of pre-war America, another evil entity was the Vault-tec. Humans never change indeed.
@@shawnwolf5961 And even then, they're evil because they take perspectives we have seen in real life and simply amplify them a little bit. Hannah Arendt had the idea of "the banality of evil," the notion that evil does not walk around in fancy black capes with red backlighting and have meetings in smoky rooms with their fingers teepee'd. Very often, they are just normal guys who are following what they believe to be a rational line of thought, ending in horrors and suffering.
I know alot of people who hate on Ulysses, but he is incredibly smart for a tribal and a great character with a very compelling story and unique phylosophy❤
17:13 - slightly unrelated, but in 2015 when the game released, I thought Jun's portrayal was a bit overdramatic. However, a month ago, my little brother, who was raised mostly by me since we were birthed by absent narcissists, was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer. I've been watching Oxhorn Fallout videos to keep my mind off of things, and saw his video on the Minutemen, which features Jun and Marcy's story - and when I saw Jun crying, mourning his son, I remembered that I was crying and saying the same things just a few days ago. Hits me in the gut now to hear him crying. My brother's only 31. It's been really difficult watching him suffer .
i know what you mean, when you havent gone through a certain situation, especially in a game, you think it wouldnt be that bad, or it could never happen to you too.. but i lost my daughter in 2016.. she was 6 months old only.. sids they said was the cause.. now anytime i see the scene of jun crying, all i can think of is that night, standing outside in the rain screaming at god.. asking why, we often forget alot of what happens in these games, happens in real life as well.. im sorry for what you and your brother is going through.. my thoughts are with you and your brother much love
Fallout has always made a point of showing how much history repeats itself. There's a reason that, despite taking place in the future, pre-war America is basically a more technologically advanced version of the 50s.
@matti.8465 the pre-war world could have solved all of thier own issues - they were literally on the brink of post-scaricty, but corporate greed, corruption in government and nationalism stopped it.
@@terrynixon2758 Not really?. It simply comes down to resources, politics, ideology, religion, or simply human rage. That's causes boil down to five. Well it's what I think.
Both "war never changes" and " Winter is coming", come from a larger quote from Ulysses S grant. "I have never advocated war except as means of peace, so seek peace, but prepare for war. Because war... War never changes. War is like winter and winter is coming."
Always reminds me of the quote from MASH: "War isn't Hell. War is war, and Hell is Hell. And of the two, war is a lot worse." - Hawkeye Also, anytime I hear about Alan Turing I get filled with rage and sadness. History is so often disappointing.
Great video, Oxhorn. Thanks for taking the time to illustrate how almost all of the atrocities we encounter in the Fallout games have their antecedents in real-life events. The writers may change the window dressing to suit their storyworld, but the behaviors are the same. The only one I didn’t already know was the cannibalism in Russia the 1920s with children being most at risk. It makes me wonder how many fairy stories that focus on children escaping cannibalistic witches have their genesis in similar tragedies.
"Elon: He does stuff in fields you don't understand, and people praise him for it, then he starts doing stuff in fields you DO understand, and then you realise just how dumb he is"
Thanks for this one brother. Fallout is a setting where everyone had the red button ready to go, and yet everyone was surprised by the bombs dropped anyway. War never changes.
I saw this in a MGS4 and Fallout intro comparisson. Now I am over simplifying the whole article but it boiled down to this. Both intros are right. War will never change because as long as humanity exist there will be war. Whether it be over resources, ideologies or survival; humanity's desire to conquer and strive for supperiority will always be present. War has changed because where in the past we saw war as a last result or a historic event from where legends and fables are born, now it has become a mundane thing. War has become entretaiment, a political tool, a news segement to fill the space between the weather and the 8 'o' clock news. An entire economy built around war beyond the battlefield. You put three people in a room and you will get 6 different opinions. Conflict is in our nature. But ironically, so is hope, love and decency. A quote that I love holds a lot of meaning. "All wars are civil wars. Because all men are brothers."
TH-camr Somecallmejohnny did videos reviewing each game of the MGS series and in his MGS4 review, near the end he said something that still sticks with me everytime I think about the series as a whole: “Misunderstandings. We have all this sh*t to blame (the MGS series) because of two people misinterpreting what one person wanted for the world.”
Well said Oxhorn. Well said. You really got the meaning of the Fallout catch phrase. The methods in which war is fought changes, but War itself does not.
Something that has always fascinated me in this discussion was how Metal Gear Solid 4 is a very obviously meant to be Kojimas satire on Fallout 3, as it opened opened with an overly egregious and pretentious monologue declaring “War. Has. Changed.” Which is kinda bizzare because the Ron Pearlman quote was never supposed to be literal, it meant that conflict and war was a part of Mankind’s soul and it can’t be separated from it. Just because the MGS Universe has advanced technology and was primarily fought through proxy wars and espionage doesn’t really change anything but conditions. The Pre-War Fallout Conflict had all of those things. Not only this, but I think Death Stranding was Kojimas even bigger attempt at making a subversive version of Fallout, as it’s a post apocalyptic world where most survivors live in walled-in cities and Underground Bunkers. Unlike Fallout where the remains of the US are psychotic and see themselves as the Ubermensch, with Miltary Seperatists with an Ancient Knight Culture being the best chance at stopping them. By coincidence, the Death Stranding US gov remnants are presented as Noble-Bright Good guys who are trying to survive attacks by a cartoonishly evil group of militarized Separatists who base their culture and Aesthetic off of Ancient Egypt. I think it’s likely that Kojima didn’t like how Fo3 depicted the US Gov, which 80’s Action movies gave him the impression of being badass good guys. With the history out of the way, it seemed Kojima liked the Fallout TV Show, as we know he at least watched it and actually wanted to hire an actor from it. This, along with the fact that Death Stranding 2 will feature more FPS based mechanics may show a change in perspective!
The thing about how Fallout depicts the US government is one radically different to our real world government, and that's the big thing, remember it's a US devloping in an endless nuclear and Cold War scare, with this the US becomes more and more authoritarian, or at least the Enclave comes to exist within the US government as a cabal of evil selfish people. They arn't really the continuation of the US governement, hell they use a modified version of the Fallout US flag by replacing the centeral star with the Enclave emblem. Their claim to be the US government is just an excuse they use to try and lay claim to what's left of America post Great War.
I once argued with a man in a Lazer pig video because Lazer pig made fun of the phrase, war never changes, I expressed the same sentiment you've played out here, that suffering is constant in war, no matter how much how it's waged changes. The argument ended with the other commenter saying the tagline of the franchise notably wasn't "war always causes unjust suffering" and me calling him a moron. It still haunts me to this day that someone can have the whole thing laid out for them and still apparently couldn't conceive of the concept of subtext.
Ideals change, nations change, leaders change, politics change, warfare changes But war..... war never changes. Its doesn't matter if the Nuclear Holocaust wiped out billions of people, erased all the governments and left the world a nuclear Wasteland. As long as there's still people around with conflicting ideas and beliefs. War itself will continue on. That's what makes Fallout such a unique game and story.
I think war never changes also because our perceptions of war are always the same as well. For example our technology has greatly changed, but when people think about going to war, or being in war (in our places where it isnt happening), they still think of the old world war I and II type fighting, and they feel pride in that.
It conveys the idea that despite technological advancements, humanity's propensity for war remains unchanged, reflecting fundamental human flaws that lead to conflict regardless of circumstances
I mean, Elon Musk is the guy who thinks "X" is a great name for a webpage, and claims that there's free speech on a platform that promotes racist and extreme right wing posts. It was obvious that he was going to miss the whole point of "Fallout". He also probably things that Homelander is the hero on "The Boys".
@oxhorn please do the fallout 76 quest for blueridge caravan. Tall to Vinny at west tunnel. You have to do a single quest each day but it leads up to a final quest that is so full lore it's wonderful! You get answers to Aries, Sheepsquatch, and other blueridge caravan members.
The point of fallout or at least the old fallouts is that even after the apocalypse humanity follows the exact same trends as before. They gather into groups build communities and have conflicts for ultimately stupid reasons and tribalism. Despite everything that happened we still fight over petty shit and tribalism. That’s what war never changes means. Nothing is different about these conflicts from the pre war world. It’s what Bethesda seems to be forgetting
I just realized I’ve been waging a one man war against the Gunners in Fallout 4 for basically as long as I’ve played the game. To avenge the fallen Minutemen I put every single Gunner I’ve come across in the ground without question. I’d sneak into their camps, snipe the toughest ones from the shadows, then go in plasma a blazing until every last man and woman was dead. I’m not really sure what real world historical event my actions are in Fallout are similar too, but I’m sure it’s been done before countless times. It’s really horrible if you think about it…
17:24 that hit me.. i lost my daughter in 2016.. one of the hardest things ive ever done was burying my own daughter, i mean with parents and grandparents you expect it.. but a parent should never have to bury their child.. it is true tho.. war never changes.. this video is abit to real
The main change is that war is becoming sterilised, sanitised. Innocents only get affected when fighting those with lesser technology that utilise guerilla tactics. An example of war changing is I think a Star Trek episode and I believe a novel as well, where two nations were at constant war, screens showing the new casualties all the while there were no deaths, it was just a simulation and yet war continued until one survived. The point being as Kaiser said, we now just play at war like the noble born of old, watching over the battlefield to see who lost the great game. I'm unlikely to ever speak to the man but I would presume that was his train of thought if he wasn't trolling.
I would disagree considering recent events in the world. Even as weapons get more and more precise, there will always be strategic value in harming the innocent and their livelihood. The concept of total war (harnessing all resources of a nation for the long term purpose of fighting a war, like a high rate of conscription, rationing non-war production etc etc) only exacerbates this strategic value. After all, oil, shells, missiles, targeting computers... It's civilians who make them, civilians who make the money and pay the taxes required to buy them, civilians who are eventually conscripted to use them, civilians who vote in the administrations who make the decision to use them or who eventually wave the white flag. And so long as such value exists, there will be people who will say, the ends justify the means, who will gladly wipe those innocents out for the perceived cause of shortening the war. Whether it actually shortens the war doesn't matter- the result is that innocents will die, technically non-war activities will be disrupted and infrastructure devastated... War will never be sanitary or sterile.
@@eggtarts286 well let's extend that thought a little. Factories, the side that can push out munitions the most efficiently will have an advantage so automation. That then leaves the civilian population, arguably the less involved you can make them the better your odds of victory, but that follows on to dealing with civil unrest, either organic or orchestrated, the effects are the same. This is where the average person will become affected.
@@jabiraidan ...Yet, infantry is still needed to gain ground and the needs of the people are targeted, like Power Plants, storage facilities for food, infrastructure, and more
@@rbgerald2469 actually, no...soldiers are used in areas where a cheaper product can do the job, infrastructure like power plants are targeted for logistical purposes, if say water was limited or energy was in short supply civilians would be the first to be denied in favor of military use.
War, warfare and the effects of war obviously change. War was once between armies and civilians suffered - but in WW2 war was against the entire country and civilians AND soldiers were directly targeted by ALL parties. That’s a fundamental difference.
Hey Ox I know it’s on the nose and all that but it’s still nice to here your “take” on it because as a community we all just understand and move on but we don’t tend to anilize this deeply on it. Fantastic video
There's a book called "Tiger Force" available on Amazon or wherever which goes into detail about some atrocities committed during Viet Nam. The Japanese also cannibalized US soldiers during WWII... a book called "Flyboys" talks about the battle of Chichi Jima (island before Iwo Jima) where the soldiers could hear US prisoners being cannibalized IIRC.
Just had to mention if you get a pole with the protagonists vs each other, if it's army go with "The Warrior" even if it isn't an option. Nobody's beating their tank driven, deathclaw/robot/super mutant recruiting war machine.
It seems when you have something to say about fallout 76, the company listens. I would love to see a video on their policy about Atomic purchases being non refundable! Am I alone with this? They already have our money, and remove the content from our account, whats the harm in giving refunds? Doesnt that promote people to spend more money if anything?
I really like Far Harbor for how it delves into the mind of people who try everything within their power to prevent war and have to live with the decisions they made along the way, DiMA is by far my favourite character of any Fallout games.
You could even say that the speech by Ron Pearlman also shows that the real reason for war never changes, fiction or nonfiction and that reason is greed.
Is anyone really surprised that the fan of Altas Shrugged and the Dune series (comparing tech moguls to the ruling class offering of the Bene Gesserit), doesn’t get the Fallout series? The series was specifically written ABOUT people like him! 😂😂
I’d love to know what he thought of the last episode of Fallout, where the Pre-War scenes culminate with the message that “heartless corporations with no regards for human life are not good”
I like that guy who said "Ah, but war is preventable" If 2 nations have issues: Nation A has a dry but mineral rich land. Nation B has a green wet land perfect for farming, Nation A clearly needs the wet land for food. But Nation B also needs minerals. Now if we think about what that guy said, "War is preventable" In this case these 2 nations just need to share or trade resources. In the fallout universe, they depleted most of the major resources. Probably Coal, Oil, Natural Gas, Uranium. The issue is that they did not start investing in Solar Energy like we are doing. After a few decades, we too will run out of major resources. They call it major but really, it's just for electricity mostly... Which Solar Energy can fix, As for "War, war never changes" It went over Elon's head, because we all know that technology change how the wars is fought. But war is always fought for the same reasons over, and over again... Resources, Ideologies, Supremacy, Economy, or simply Entertainment. MGS4 claims "War. Has. Changed" But it really never changes... People fighting people. Robots fighting People. Robots fighting Robots. Even between animals like Chimps who attack other Chimps for territory. That is war... So, to say "War. Has. Changed" is a very narrow thinking to me. Because "War, war never changes" or "War. Has. Changed" One common thing in war that NEVER changes. Casualties. Even the tiniest most unimportant lose is a lose. And someone ALWAYS benefits... So the truest of the two remains. War, war never changes.
In 28 Days Later, the head of a crack military unit manning a checkpoint the main Characters were heading to, said this that basically sums up what war is. "It's people, killing people."
@@Turamwdd It didn't go over my head, I said that its fought for the same reasons. Those reasons never changed, most of them is survival. The word "War" itself Is like another word for conflict to begin with. I could've just said "all-encompassing" but that would not be an explanation would it? So to make it simpler I used some of the motives or reasons for wars. But there're way more than those reasons, I just picked a few of them. You should pay more attention before you comment.
A lot of examples of cultures making up an alternate version of warfare in Sci-fi. One such example from Rodenberry:A taste of Armageddon in "Star Trek episode 23 season 1. Where the casualties are calculated by computers and the 'victims' are walked into a disintegrator voluntarily.Captain Kirk destroys the device to set back their soulless solution. Saying something that corresponds with WNC sort of like: Now you will just have to deal with the reality of war. And perhaps you will then decide it isn't worth the tragedy and try to make peace.
I just watched Simple History's video on the My Lai Massacre. So when you were getting to that part... I knew what you were referring to before you said it.
The Soviet famine part reminds me of how I've been personally looking into Ukraine's Holodomor later between 32-33. Now modern day defenders of communism want to pretend, that the Soviets never did anything wrong and that Soviet books show no wrong-doing of any kind. No way?! They certainly would not have any motive to just sweep it all under the rug, even to this very day in the archives of Moscow... So all we got today is the personal accounts of the Ukrainians themselves passed on thru the generations, that the communist defenders love to doubt all the time. I saw this one communism-lover youtuber belittle an Ukrainian guy talking about his grandpa's experiences in the comments and it would be an understatement, that this sight made me angry.
Reminds me of a great line. "Odd thing, ain't it... you meet people one at a time, they seem decent, they got brains that work, and then they get together and you hear the voice of the people. And it snarls." Terry Pratchett
Warfare in iain m banks culture series is a little different, AIs sending fleets of ships and drones across the galaxy to face other ships while on the culture side life goes on as normal for most of the humanoids
Saying that there are necessary wars is not true. In some wars one side is justified in their position but it is never the case that both sides are right regardless of who wins.
Bold of you to assume Muskrat understands anything about Fallout, when he himself is a walking embodiment of the kinds of people the prewar era of Fallout loves to parody. Still, a fantastic video for those who genuinely may not understand the meaning, and just as fascinating for people who do.
One, only one type of war Fallout didn't cover: religious war. All have tacitly agreed that religion and all its ramifications, including religious warfare, are relics of the past and have nothing to do with the evolution of human society. But yeah... war, war never changes! Edit: although, one can argue that the BoS war is some kind of religious war.
well just a few minutes in.. and yeah....... you know.... on twitter..for whatever reason... there is a sadly large contingent that will just agree/prop up, etc with his tweets for whatever reason.... engagement bots, etc... who knows.. i seriously find the vast majority of the discourse on any of his tweets not worth the effort.
In truth, Turing didn't commit suicide. He was not at all that distraught with his chemical castration and he, in fact, conducted a scientific pet project of his involving cyanide and died of an accidental cyanide poisoning. Given that he did not leave a suicide note or that he did not show any signs of severe depression, the theory involving suicide is not factual at all. I really wish people would quit perpetuating this myth.
We actually do have plasma weapons, ghouls look up the guy who stuck his face in the mass hydron collider , super mutants aka fev not yet but what if FEV is linking to technology?
Does anyone know what game is in the intro clip with the "cyber wagon" Stg I've played it before, but I can't for the life of me remember the title lol
The problem with this saying: War does Change. When America rebuilt Germany after WW2, instead of putting massive amounts of demands onto them, they changed the very purpose of war itself. Prior to that, it was always about resources and territorial gains, with the winner getting to set the demands of the looser. The moment we started having wars that do not change the borders, let alone access to resources within the other nation... war changed. It is why we look at what Russia is doing with a shake of our head and disappointment: They are trying to bring back the old purpose of war... instead of growing up and doing the new! However, back to Fallout: Do you think they had a reconstruction of Germany event? Perhaps, in their universe, war was always about Resources....
I would agree except in the Fallout Universe, they follow common history up until a point around the 1950s (after WW2) so the German Reconstruction very likely did happen. The American Union had already done something like that once already with the defeated Confederate South after the Civil War so reconstruction was a proven system that worked in lowering hostility and helping a defeated nation/faction get back on their feet in the aftermath of a costly war. I don't think that this is what the quote "War never changes" meant. But I respect your take on this. I just don't think that's the point of the quote.
One of my favorite lines from M*A*S*H is when Hawkeye says "if war is war and hell is hell, I'd choose hell" To which father Mulcahey asks why. Hawkeye responds with "who goes to hell? The wicked. There's no innocent bystanders in hell. But war is full of them"
Think, almost every conflict in a fallout game involves nuking the enemies (institute, Prydwen, megaton, the nucleus. I believe this statement is a direct reference to the nuclear bombs and how even after they destroyed the world, they are still valued by post-war survivors for their destructive capability. Almost like war never changes 😮
Human culture changes. The methods by which wars are fought changes. The human behaviors that start wars, the cruelty that is shown during and after them, _that_ remains the same.
Just to share my thought, as I watch through this video up until the point where Ulysses chimes in, theres this quote said by an old (former) scientist that were ingrained in my head from a japanese show i used to watch that resonates with what Ulysses said where men must change. The quote was (人が人を許さない限り、争いは無くならないんだ), which translates to "As long as people don't forgive each other, conflicts will never end..." My interpretation with this video and the aforementioned quote if in this context that 'conflict' refers to 'war', then my take on this is if men change through forgiveness, perhaps the war could be resolved quicker without the further loss of lives or better, preventing war from happening which sounds too far fetch from reality or alternatively just delayed the inevitable from happening soon. Just my take on this matter, thought I put this out for fun...
Such an interesting and different topic by Ox, compared to regular lore videous. I vote for more reflections like these, if I may be so upfront about it.
Oxhorn, this is one of the best videos you have produced. The Fallout games and their echoes of real-world events is one of the reasons I consider video games art.
oh gods who made a cybertruck mod?! Seriously though, most of his yes men there on twitter are bots, so I don't think their opinions count in this. War may update, but the concept itself never does.
The research which went into this video deserves appreciation
I second this. I actually learned some things I wish I could forget.
@@ligaar0849 True
This is one of the things I love most about Oxhorn
@@ligaar0849I’m horrified that there are people that don’t know about these things.
Actually, it is not.
Oxhorn only gives you “facts” that lead to the conclusion that he wants you to have.
He ignores any evidence that proves him wrong.
For example, there are serious challenges to the idea that Turing killed himself.
IE, the Jews he speaks of who were the subjects of Nazi experiments were freed by war.
He is quite poor at research.
“War was waged with sticks and stones,
now it’s waged with bombs and drones.
Of course, warfare changes…
…but war, war never changes.”
Yes, War ITSELF never changes. the Gun's change, the motives and ideas for going to war? that will always stay the same.
Bingo! War itself never changes, what it's waged with changes.
Glad you copied out a line from the video for the deaf viewers
@@rowan7149 I was just highlighting Oxhorn’s rhyme. I thought maybe it was an actual quote, but I couldn’t find it anywhere
It's been said that the no one knows what weapons will be used in the third world war, but the fourth world war will be fought with sticks and stones. Assuming, that is, there's anyone left to fight it.
My personal opinion about this phase is, war never changes because, even though the players(factions), politics, confilcts, and technologies have changed, the human nuture of conflict doesn't change. Where ever there are humans, there will be conflicts, and this doesn't change no matter what state of the world we're in.
"As long as nations possess the power to do so, war is inevitable."
- Albert Einstein
That's literally what this video says....wtf lol
*technology
Not only does the human nature of conflict never change but the consequences or the aftermath of war too.
The is exactly it the video is so obtuse hah
"everyone wants to save the world they just disagree on how"-Maximus
I did find it interesting that in Fallout 4, the factions of the Brotherhood, Minute Men, Railroad, and the Institute have good intentions. Even if misguided, they all want the best for humanity.
@@TrailCamCaptures Yep. I think one of the very very few factions that are truly, inherently evil with blatant evil intentions is the Enclave, and the other being Ceaser's Legion.
@@shawnwolf5961 and even there you can find "good people" that believed in the "good" side enclave even when they clearly see the bad intentions all to give back something that no longer exist or even ally whith them cause they could bring them the tech they need for greater good, just like this scientist of fallout 2 and new vegas that later with other former members will try to give a "good end" to the name that decades before means fear and death
@@shawnwolf5961 Exactly. The Enclave and The Legion are the most evil factions. But it also cements the words said by @oxhorn in this vid. War never changes, because humans never change. Enclave is the remnants of pre-war America, another evil entity was the Vault-tec. Humans never change indeed.
@@shawnwolf5961 And even then, they're evil because they take perspectives we have seen in real life and simply amplify them a little bit. Hannah Arendt had the idea of "the banality of evil," the notion that evil does not walk around in fancy black capes with red backlighting and have meetings in smoky rooms with their fingers teepee'd. Very often, they are just normal guys who are following what they believe to be a rational line of thought, ending in horrors and suffering.
"If war doesnt change, men must change"-Ulysses
Which is ironic because it’s incredibly hard to change Ulysses mind.
“The Bear, the Bull, Tunnelers, Marked Men, Caesar.”
-Ukysses
At least he listen i don't think NCR, brotherhood, and Legion wont change or convinced that their error is wrong
I know alot of people who hate on Ulysses, but he is incredibly smart for a tribal and a great character with a very compelling story and unique phylosophy❤
@@jakespacepiratee3740true, but it IS possible.
17:13 - slightly unrelated, but in 2015 when the game released, I thought Jun's portrayal was a bit overdramatic. However, a month ago, my little brother, who was raised mostly by me since we were birthed by absent narcissists, was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer.
I've been watching Oxhorn Fallout videos to keep my mind off of things, and saw his video on the Minutemen, which features Jun and Marcy's story - and when I saw Jun crying, mourning his son, I remembered that I was crying and saying the same things just a few days ago.
Hits me in the gut now to hear him crying.
My brother's only 31. It's been really difficult watching him suffer .
Thank you for sharing your story Jess, stay strong and may you find peace with time.
🙏🏿🖤🖤
i know what you mean, when you havent gone through a certain situation, especially in a game, you think it wouldnt be that bad, or it could never happen to you too.. but i lost my daughter in 2016.. she was 6 months old only.. sids they said was the cause.. now anytime i see the scene of jun crying, all i can think of is that night, standing outside in the rain screaming at god.. asking why, we often forget alot of what happens in these games, happens in real life as well.. im sorry for what you and your brother is going through.. my thoughts are with you and your brother much love
Fallout has always made a point of showing how much history repeats itself. There's a reason that, despite taking place in the future, pre-war America is basically a more technologically advanced version of the 50s.
@matti.8465 the pre-war world could have solved all of thier own issues - they were literally on the brink of post-scaricty, but corporate greed, corruption in government and nationalism stopped it.
I always thought it was the *CAUSES* of the war and not the war itself.
And the results as well
@@chriszhang1660"... The end of the world occurred pretty much as we predicted. Too many people, not enough space to go around." - The Narrator, FO2
The causes and results are the same, regardless of tech. Greed is the cause, suffering is the result.
Reasons why war happen can change. Tech can change. The impact on the humans involved is what never changes.
@@terrynixon2758 Not really?. It simply comes down to resources, politics, ideology, religion, or simply human rage. That's causes boil down to five. Well it's what I think.
The sad part is that this video even had to be made. Even sadder is that some will watch it, and still not understand.
Because people don't change and won't change.
Both "war never changes" and " Winter is coming", come from a larger quote from Ulysses S grant.
"I have never advocated war except as means of peace, so seek peace, but prepare for war. Because war... War never changes. War is like winter and winter is coming."
Always reminds me of the quote from MASH: "War isn't Hell. War is war, and Hell is Hell. And of the two, war is a lot worse." - Hawkeye
Also, anytime I hear about Alan Turing I get filled with rage and sadness. History is so often disappointing.
+
There are no innocent bystanders in hell.
@@BlueDually4x4when some of the crimes that get you sent to hell is just being gay or not believing in god…yes there absolutely is
I'm sure the people who get occupied by an enemy disagree.
@@richardarriaga6271 Depends on the enemy.
As a Minutemen player, as soon as the very moment you mentioned Quincy, I instantly got PTSD and horrid flashbacks at that.
Are you Preston himself?
How to you have flashbacks to an even you weren't at?
Great video, Oxhorn. Thanks for taking the time to illustrate how almost all of the atrocities we encounter in the Fallout games have their antecedents in real-life events. The writers may change the window dressing to suit their storyworld, but the behaviors are the same. The only one I didn’t already know was the cannibalism in Russia the 1920s with children being most at risk. It makes me wonder how many fairy stories that focus on children escaping cannibalistic witches have their genesis in similar tragedies.
Is anyone surprised that Elon Musk didn't get the point?
Not really
He got the point but wasn't talking about the game but irl
war never changes irl either
nope as usual
"Elon: He does stuff in fields you don't understand, and people praise him for it, then he starts doing stuff in fields you DO understand, and then you realise just how dumb he is"
Thanks for this one brother. Fallout is a setting where everyone had the red button ready to go, and yet everyone was surprised by the bombs dropped anyway.
War never changes.
Didn't expect to see oxhorn whipping the tesla truck around this morning
Yea and the steering is so realistic!
sieburr-truk*
I was actually wondering what game was being played during those clips.
@jessicaedwards2493 fortnite I wanna say but im not for sure I haven't played that game for like 7 years
I'm surprised it didn't catch fire
I saw this in a MGS4 and Fallout intro comparisson. Now I am over simplifying the whole article but it boiled down to this. Both intros are right.
War will never change because as long as humanity exist there will be war. Whether it be over resources, ideologies or survival; humanity's desire to conquer and strive for supperiority will always be present.
War has changed because where in the past we saw war as a last result or a historic event from where legends and fables are born, now it has become a mundane thing. War has become entretaiment, a political tool, a news segement to fill the space between the weather and the 8 'o' clock news. An entire economy built around war beyond the battlefield.
You put three people in a room and you will get 6 different opinions. Conflict is in our nature.
But ironically, so is hope, love and decency.
A quote that I love holds a lot of meaning.
"All wars are civil wars. Because all men are brothers."
TH-camr Somecallmejohnny did videos reviewing each game of the MGS series and in his MGS4 review, near the end he said something that still sticks with me everytime I think about the series as a whole:
“Misunderstandings. We have all this sh*t to blame (the MGS series) because of two people misinterpreting what one person wanted for the world.”
Well said Oxhorn. Well said. You really got the meaning of the Fallout catch phrase. The methods in which war is fought changes, but War itself does not.
"there is no good war", but sometimes there's a "Great War".
The word great isn’t always used in a good way💀
@@coffinboy556 You say whilst entirely missing the point.
If you understand Fallout. You know that War never changes. The ending credit of each game and even a lot of the DLCs explain it quite explicitly
Wow, that Cybertruck in your game does better in sand than the actual one 😂
16:42 the sad thing about Quincy, not enough minutemen showed up to be of help. It’s why they call upon you to help them repair their image.
Something that has always fascinated me in this discussion was how Metal Gear Solid 4 is a very obviously meant to be Kojimas satire on Fallout 3, as it opened opened with an overly egregious and pretentious monologue declaring “War. Has. Changed.” Which is kinda bizzare because the Ron Pearlman quote was never supposed to be literal, it meant that conflict and war was a part of Mankind’s soul and it can’t be separated from it. Just because the MGS Universe has advanced technology and was primarily fought through proxy wars and espionage doesn’t really change anything but conditions. The Pre-War Fallout Conflict had all of those things.
Not only this, but I think Death Stranding was Kojimas even bigger attempt at making a subversive version of Fallout, as it’s a post apocalyptic world where most survivors live in walled-in cities and Underground Bunkers. Unlike Fallout where the remains of the US are psychotic and see themselves as the Ubermensch, with Miltary Seperatists with an Ancient Knight Culture being the best chance at stopping them.
By coincidence, the Death Stranding US gov remnants are presented as Noble-Bright Good guys who are trying to survive attacks by a cartoonishly evil group of militarized Separatists who base their culture and Aesthetic off of Ancient Egypt. I think it’s likely that Kojima didn’t like how Fo3 depicted the US Gov, which 80’s Action movies gave him the impression of being badass good guys.
With the history out of the way, it seemed Kojima liked the Fallout TV Show, as we know he at least watched it and actually wanted to hire an actor from it. This, along with the fact that Death Stranding 2 will feature more FPS based mechanics may show a change in perspective!
Kojima bought into the American action hero concept wholeheartedly
The thing about how Fallout depicts the US government is one radically different to our real world government, and that's the big thing, remember it's a US devloping in an endless nuclear and Cold War scare, with this the US becomes more and more authoritarian, or at least the Enclave comes to exist within the US government as a cabal of evil selfish people. They arn't really the continuation of the US governement, hell they use a modified version of the Fallout US flag by replacing the centeral star with the Enclave emblem. Their claim to be the US government is just an excuse they use to try and lay claim to what's left of America post Great War.
Ox you always put the context of our actual history in these videos and it's so well researched and tied together, I love it 👌
I once argued with a man in a Lazer pig video because Lazer pig made fun of the phrase, war never changes, I expressed the same sentiment you've played out here, that suffering is constant in war, no matter how much how it's waged changes. The argument ended with the other commenter saying the tagline of the franchise notably wasn't "war always causes unjust suffering" and me calling him a moron. It still haunts me to this day that someone can have the whole thing laid out for them and still apparently couldn't conceive of the concept of subtext.
Ideals change, nations change, leaders change, politics change, warfare changes
But war..... war never changes.
Its doesn't matter if the Nuclear Holocaust wiped out billions of people, erased all the governments and left the world a nuclear Wasteland. As long as there's still people around with conflicting ideas and beliefs. War itself will continue on.
That's what makes Fallout such a unique game and story.
I think war never changes also because our perceptions of war are always the same as well. For example our technology has greatly changed, but when people think about going to war, or being in war (in our places where it isnt happening), they still think of the old world war I and II type fighting, and they feel pride in that.
Such a well researched and informative piece. You are a treasure to the Fallout fandom and world History.
It conveys the idea that despite technological advancements, humanity's propensity for war remains unchanged, reflecting fundamental human flaws that lead to conflict regardless of circumstances
I mean, Elon Musk is the guy who thinks "X" is a great name for a webpage, and claims that there's free speech on a platform that promotes racist and extreme right wing posts. It was obvious that he was going to miss the whole point of "Fallout". He also probably things that Homelander is the hero on "The Boys".
He probably thinks the Enclave are the good guys in Fallout
9:07 it is mistranslated - the actual translation: "Did you help the starving children of the Volga Region? Hurry!"
0:45🗣️🔥🔥🔥
@oxhorn please do the fallout 76 quest for blueridge caravan. Tall to Vinny at west tunnel. You have to do a single quest each day but it leads up to a final quest that is so full lore it's wonderful! You get answers to Aries, Sheepsquatch, and other blueridge caravan members.
The point of fallout or at least the old fallouts is that even after the apocalypse humanity follows the exact same trends as before. They gather into groups build communities and have conflicts for ultimately stupid reasons and tribalism. Despite everything that happened we still fight over petty shit and tribalism. That’s what war never changes means. Nothing is different about these conflicts from the pre war world. It’s what Bethesda seems to be forgetting
I just realized I’ve been waging a one man war against the Gunners in Fallout 4 for basically as long as I’ve played the game. To avenge the fallen Minutemen I put every single Gunner I’ve come across in the ground without question. I’d sneak into their camps, snipe the toughest ones from the shadows, then go in plasma a blazing until every last man and woman was dead. I’m not really sure what real world historical event my actions are in Fallout are similar too, but I’m sure it’s been done before countless times. It’s really horrible if you think about it…
Awesome video. Thank you for doing this.
You did good research for this one. Thank you very much for the info
17:24 that hit me.. i lost my daughter in 2016.. one of the hardest things ive ever done was burying my own daughter, i mean with parents and grandparents you expect it.. but a parent should never have to bury their child.. it is true tho.. war never changes.. this video is abit to real
Bethesda already said Shady sands was bombed after 2077. Why are we still acting like it's not confirmed
The main change is that war is becoming sterilised, sanitised. Innocents only get affected when fighting those with lesser technology that utilise guerilla tactics. An example of war changing is I think a Star Trek episode and I believe a novel as well, where two nations were at constant war, screens showing the new casualties all the while there were no deaths, it was just a simulation and yet war continued until one survived. The point being as Kaiser said, we now just play at war like the noble born of old, watching over the battlefield to see who lost the great game.
I'm unlikely to ever speak to the man but I would presume that was his train of thought if he wasn't trolling.
I would disagree considering recent events in the world. Even as weapons get more and more precise, there will always be strategic value in harming the innocent and their livelihood. The concept of total war (harnessing all resources of a nation for the long term purpose of fighting a war, like a high rate of conscription, rationing non-war production etc etc) only exacerbates this strategic value. After all, oil, shells, missiles, targeting computers... It's civilians who make them, civilians who make the money and pay the taxes required to buy them, civilians who are eventually conscripted to use them, civilians who vote in the administrations who make the decision to use them or who eventually wave the white flag.
And so long as such value exists, there will be people who will say, the ends justify the means, who will gladly wipe those innocents out for the perceived cause of shortening the war. Whether it actually shortens the war doesn't matter- the result is that innocents will die, technically non-war activities will be disrupted and infrastructure devastated...
War will never be sanitary or sterile.
@@eggtarts286 well let's extend that thought a little. Factories, the side that can push out munitions the most efficiently will have an advantage so automation. That then leaves the civilian population, arguably the less involved you can make them the better your odds of victory, but that follows on to dealing with civil unrest, either organic or orchestrated, the effects are the same. This is where the average person will become affected.
@@jabiraidan ...Yet, infantry is still needed to gain ground and the needs of the people are targeted, like Power Plants, storage facilities for food, infrastructure, and more
@@rbgerald2469 actually, no...soldiers are used in areas where a cheaper product can do the job, infrastructure like power plants are targeted for logistical purposes, if say water was limited or energy was in short supply civilians would be the first to be denied in favor of military use.
War, warfare and the effects of war obviously change.
War was once between armies and civilians suffered - but in WW2 war was against the entire country and civilians AND soldiers were directly targeted by ALL parties. That’s a fundamental difference.
Whoa,loved this video your storytelling is captivating! Great work Ox!
Hey Ox I know it’s on the nose and all that but it’s still nice to here your “take” on it because as a community we all just understand and move on but we don’t tend to anilize this deeply on it. Fantastic video
There's a book called "Tiger Force" available on Amazon or wherever which goes into detail about some atrocities committed during Viet Nam. The Japanese also cannibalized US soldiers during WWII... a book called "Flyboys" talks about the battle of Chichi Jima (island before Iwo Jima) where the soldiers could hear US prisoners being cannibalized IIRC.
17:05 - 17:30 I genuinely almost started crying hearing that..
Just had to mention if you get a pole with the protagonists vs each other, if it's army go with "The Warrior" even if it isn't an option. Nobody's beating their tank driven, deathclaw/robot/super mutant recruiting war machine.
War changes. War changes itself and war changes civilization.
The british government after WWII: "You're telling me a queer coded this??"
Alan deserved better.
It seems when you have something to say about fallout 76, the company listens. I would love to see a video on their policy about Atomic purchases being non refundable! Am I alone with this? They already have our money, and remove the content from our account, whats the harm in giving refunds? Doesnt that promote people to spend more money if anything?
I really like Far Harbor for how it delves into the mind of people who try everything within their power to prevent war and have to live with the decisions they made along the way, DiMA is by far my favourite character of any Fallout games.
“The sacrifices I’ve made…and all without even knowing”
You could even say that the speech by Ron Pearlman also shows that the real reason for war never changes, fiction or nonfiction and that reason is greed.
Ah, Universe at war... how i miss thee. Immediately recognized the background music. Hierarchy Global war map bg music was chill.
Is anyone really surprised that the fan of Altas Shrugged and the Dune series (comparing tech moguls to the ruling class offering of the Bene Gesserit), doesn’t get the Fallout series? The series was specifically written ABOUT people like him! 😂😂
I’d love to know what he thought of the last episode of Fallout, where the Pre-War scenes culminate with the message that “heartless corporations with no regards for human life are not good”
The original fallout intro never gets old
War is always changing. There are different generations of warfare. The effects of war might not change, but the after effects aren't war.
I like that guy who said "Ah, but war is preventable"
If 2 nations have issues: Nation A has a dry but mineral rich land. Nation B has a green wet land perfect for farming, Nation A clearly needs the wet land for food. But Nation B also needs minerals. Now if we think about what that guy said, "War is preventable" In this case these 2 nations just need to share or trade resources.
In the fallout universe, they depleted most of the major resources. Probably Coal, Oil, Natural Gas, Uranium. The issue is that they did not start investing in Solar Energy like we are doing. After a few decades, we too will run out of major resources. They call it major but really, it's just for electricity mostly... Which Solar Energy can fix,
As for "War, war never changes" It went over Elon's head, because we all know that technology change how the wars is fought. But war is always fought for the same reasons over, and over again... Resources, Ideologies, Supremacy, Economy, or simply Entertainment.
MGS4 claims "War. Has. Changed" But it really never changes... People fighting people. Robots fighting People. Robots fighting Robots. Even between animals like Chimps who attack other Chimps for territory. That is war... So, to say "War. Has. Changed" is a very narrow thinking to me. Because "War, war never changes" or "War. Has. Changed" One common thing in war that NEVER changes. Casualties. Even the tiniest most unimportant lose is a lose. And someone ALWAYS benefits... So the truest of the two remains. War, war never changes.
In 28 Days Later, the head of a crack military unit manning a checkpoint the main Characters were heading to, said this that basically sums up what war is.
"It's people, killing people."
Too bad the quote is over your head too. It is really easy to classify a situation as all-encompassing when you call out dozens of reasons for war.
@@Turamwdd It didn't go over my head, I said that its fought for the same reasons. Those reasons never changed, most of them is survival. The word "War" itself Is like another word for conflict to begin with.
I could've just said "all-encompassing" but that would not be an explanation would it? So to make it simpler I used some of the motives or reasons for wars. But there're way more than those reasons, I just picked a few of them.
You should pay more attention before you comment.
Elon doesn’t understand a lot about human emotions and atrocities
Wow, I can't believe a lot of moments in the games history are all just moments where history was repeating itself.
A perfectly sobering video. Thank you for making this, very much enjoyed watching it
Get the ketchup Linda!
Great vid with excellent research, just subscribed.🤕😥
Combat evolves but war never changes
A lot of examples of cultures making up an alternate version of warfare in Sci-fi. One such example from Rodenberry:A taste of Armageddon in "Star Trek episode 23 season 1. Where the casualties are calculated by computers and the 'victims' are walked into a disintegrator voluntarily.Captain Kirk destroys the device to set back their soulless solution. Saying something that corresponds with WNC sort of like: Now you will just have to deal with the reality of war. And perhaps you will then decide it isn't worth the tragedy and try to make peace.
I just watched Simple History's video on the My Lai Massacre. So when you were getting to that part... I knew what you were referring to before you said it.
Props on all the research u did for this vid
The Soviet famine part reminds me of how I've been personally looking into Ukraine's Holodomor later between 32-33.
Now modern day defenders of communism want to pretend, that the Soviets never did anything wrong and
that Soviet books show no wrong-doing of any kind. No way?! They certainly would not have any motive
to just sweep it all under the rug, even to this very day in the archives of Moscow...
So all we got today is the personal accounts of the Ukrainians themselves passed on thru the generations,
that the communist defenders love to doubt all the time.
I saw this one communism-lover youtuber belittle an Ukrainian guy talking about his grandpa's experiences in
the comments and it would be an understatement, that this sight made me angry.
Reminds me of a great line.
"Odd thing, ain't it... you meet people one at a time, they seem decent, they got brains that work, and then they get together and you hear the voice of the people. And it snarls."
Terry Pratchett
Warfare in iain m banks culture series is a little different, AIs sending fleets of ships and drones across the galaxy to face other ships while on the culture side life goes on as normal for most of the humanoids
Saying that there are necessary wars is not true. In some wars one side is justified in their position but it is never the case that both sides are right regardless of who wins.
dude they are people who would agree with him on anything even if he was telling them dogshit is not that bad to eat, they would do it...
Great Video!!
Ive watched so many documentaries about japan in ww2 and i no longer fill bad about America dropping that nuke
Javik in Mass Effect 3 said it best - "War is atrocity committed in the name of survival."
and the motives for war can also be linked together
Bold of you to assume Muskrat understands anything about Fallout, when he himself is a walking embodiment of the kinds of people the prewar era of Fallout loves to parody. Still, a fantastic video for those who genuinely may not understand the meaning, and just as fascinating for people who do.
One, only one type of war Fallout didn't cover: religious war.
All have tacitly agreed that religion and all its ramifications, including religious warfare, are relics of the past and have nothing to do with the evolution of human society.
But yeah... war, war never changes!
Edit: although, one can argue that the BoS war is some kind of religious war.
Technically they did, just not fully. And throughout many Fallout games.
IMO, it’s lame that they never used Ron Pearlman for Fallout 4
Method of war changes but the concept of war doesn't.
Could Hank got the same mission as the vault 76 overseer that's why he nuked shady sand?
I love the parallels you drew between the fallout universe and our own. Fantastic Video.
17:15 That voice really brought tears to my eyes :(
"I'll risk explaining the obvious" I'm going to use this in my personal life
well just a few minutes in.. and yeah....... you know.... on twitter..for whatever reason... there is a sadly large contingent that will just agree/prop up, etc with his tweets for whatever reason.... engagement bots, etc... who knows.. i seriously find the vast majority of the discourse on any of his tweets not worth the effort.
In truth, Turing didn't commit suicide. He was not at all that distraught with his chemical castration and he, in fact, conducted a scientific pet project of his involving cyanide and died of an accidental cyanide poisoning. Given that he did not leave a suicide note or that he did not show any signs of severe depression, the theory involving suicide is not factual at all. I really wish people would quit perpetuating this myth.
We actually do have plasma weapons, ghouls look up the guy who stuck his face in the mass hydron collider , super mutants aka fev not yet but what if FEV is linking to technology?
This is perfect material to put on while youre trying to sleep lol
The game he was playing is Satisfactory
I’m surprised you haven’t been doing some mod reviews yet for fallout four
He did that yeaaaaars ago. Check those old videos out.
@@thatrealbahe should do more on more modern, bigger mods
Does anyone know what game is in the intro clip with the "cyber wagon"
Stg I've played it before, but I can't for the life of me remember the title lol
Another banger. Well done, sir.
The problem with this saying:
War does Change.
When America rebuilt Germany after WW2, instead of putting massive amounts of demands onto them, they changed the very purpose of war itself. Prior to that, it was always about resources and territorial gains, with the winner getting to set the demands of the looser. The moment we started having wars that do not change the borders, let alone access to resources within the other nation... war changed.
It is why we look at what Russia is doing with a shake of our head and disappointment:
They are trying to bring back the old purpose of war... instead of growing up and doing the new!
However, back to Fallout:
Do you think they had a reconstruction of Germany event?
Perhaps, in their universe, war was always about Resources....
I would agree except in the Fallout Universe, they follow common history up until a point around the 1950s (after WW2) so the German Reconstruction very likely did happen. The American Union had already done something like that once already with the defeated Confederate South after the Civil War so reconstruction was a proven system that worked in lowering hostility and helping a defeated nation/faction get back on their feet in the aftermath of a costly war. I don't think that this is what the quote "War never changes" meant. But I respect your take on this. I just don't think that's the point of the quote.
One of my favorite lines from M*A*S*H is when Hawkeye says "if war is war and hell is hell, I'd choose hell"
To which father Mulcahey asks why.
Hawkeye responds with "who goes to hell? The wicked. There's no innocent bystanders in hell. But war is full of them"
Think, almost every conflict in a fallout game involves nuking the enemies (institute, Prydwen, megaton, the nucleus. I believe this statement is a direct reference to the nuclear bombs and how even after they destroyed the world, they are still valued by post-war survivors for their destructive capability. Almost like war never changes 😮
You’re great in reading Poems and Lyrics! You should do that professionally! 🙂
Well, he is pro writer. So with great chance such persons read and speak very good.
In a way this is him doing it professionally. The scripts for his lore videos often sound so eloquent!
That was a very very well thought out and informative and insightful case you presented Ox. Good on you.
Human culture changes. The methods by which wars are fought changes. The human behaviors that start wars, the cruelty that is shown during and after them, _that_ remains the same.
Just to share my thought, as I watch through this video up until the point where Ulysses chimes in, theres this quote said by an old (former) scientist that were ingrained in my head from a japanese show i used to watch that resonates with what Ulysses said where men must change. The quote was (人が人を許さない限り、争いは無くならないんだ), which translates to "As long as people don't forgive each other, conflicts will never end..."
My interpretation with this video and the aforementioned quote if in this context that 'conflict' refers to 'war', then my take on this is if men change through forgiveness, perhaps the war could be resolved quicker without the further loss of lives or better, preventing war from happening which sounds too far fetch from reality or alternatively just delayed the inevitable from happening soon. Just my take on this matter, thought I put this out for fun...
Such an interesting and different topic by Ox, compared to regular lore videous. I vote for more reflections like these, if I may be so upfront about it.
Oxhorn, this is one of the best videos you have produced. The Fallout games and their echoes of real-world events is one of the reasons I consider video games art.
This is a good video and a refreshing approach to the genre
oh gods who made a cybertruck mod?! Seriously though, most of his yes men there on twitter are bots, so I don't think their opinions count in this. War may update, but the concept itself never does.