@@gamerguy6990 The reason why it's taking so long for Respawn to roll out the updates is apparently because they don't want to overwork their developers. Compare this to Fortnite, where they get updates rather often but the devs work something like 70 to 100 hours a week.
Kekpra Demon >preorders Apex 2 >Respawn announces they are now working on Apex 3 and dragging the Titanfall 3 folder to the recycling bin and hitting delete. While burning the script.
Absolutely. Take an extra month or two if you have to. I'll wait. Game devs with high morale make great games. Game devs under crunch condition make stuff like Aliens Colonial Marines and Overkill's Walking Dead.
Honestly, crunch is fine, just not months and months of it. It's like, a 2 weeks before deadline for polishing thing. You can't make it 60% of the dev time.
The "Don't ask questions, just consume product" meme really is just the definitive descriptor of the past few years whether its game related, film or even politics.
I worked at a Target with a character designer for Rockstar we were getting payed $10 a hour. He showed me screens of himself as a NPC in Red Dead Redemption 1 as proof. I asked him why he was working here and he said hes WAY happier now then when he was at Rockstar. Said it was the worst job he ever had.
They were lucky that their cynicism became so marketable. I find them super entertaining, but it's so clear they are checked out and don't want to review blockbusters anymore so they shouldn't. They can get back to "schlock" however that's defined and Star Trek.
@@MayorOfEarth79 They liked Endgame. And a lot of other big movies. I dont think they're actually as cynical about these movies as people seem to think.
"Good thing nobody made a fuss about our decision to delay Titanfall to put more resources into Apex Legends, otherwise we might have to start starving our devs again, ISN'T THAT RIGHT LOYAL CONSUMER?" - EA in like 3 months probably
Hey, Johnson can I see that baby pic again... Aw what a sweetheart. Now I want you to look a at dear sweet Timmy and tell me how the realtime weather system is coming along.
Zeebrungis because the oppressive skull boot and beautiful lumberjack jesus boot isn't on Darlington and Patty's necks anymore! 1 section from these 2 idiots is longer than most podcast
EA, actual supervillain entity, has figured out that they can leverage the BODILY AND MENTAL HEALTH of their developers, against their release schedule to get some good PR
"How come the movie business gets away with hitting their deadlines?" Sacrifices. Even for the big marvel movies which are swamped with cash, take a look back at Iron Man 2 and how tangible and real Tony's suit is, whereas if you watch infinity war that thing looks close to a video game graphic. Which makes sense, the money went to making Thanos as believable as possible and render all the space shit. But still, sacrifices. Films get delayed all the time tho, rarely the big ones due to endless money but Fury Road had to uproot its whole shoot when they got a surprise wet aussie desert. And Titanic was moved to december for more effects time, which happened to work out better for oscars, and Tree of Life's release was moved a whole 2 years. Cabin in the Woods was almost shelved forever by a dying studio. Then you have movies that dont even get to be finished, and are still released, which is what happened with The Snowman a couple years back. They had a really great director, bit a whole 15% wasnt shot due to weather and not enough shooting time, which crippled the film. These things happen, they're just usually better managed or immediately forgotten.
If you add the extra cost of paying employees decent wages the cost of the things you buy would increase by much less than 10%. That $800 iphone without slave labor would be about $810. The cheap plastic cups that Walmart sells for $1 each? They pay a single penny for a dozen. Not a penny each, a penny for a dozen. Most products have a markup of at least x100. Much, much more if you buy big name brands.
I would be okay with games taking longer to come out and avoiding crunch. However, I would like more periodic updates and community interaction as a result. Radio silence for many, many years leads to concerns and fearing the worst.
@@Tamacat388 you don't need to fill the updates with spoilers, just things like "hey, we're about halfway through the game now, here's some concept art that failed to make the cut", etc.
@@Yal_Rathol Those would just be pretty nebulous and useless updates. What "halfway" means could change as the project expands or contracts in size. Concepts can get cut or reworked back into the game ect. Really people just need to expand their interests and consume so much content that it dont matter how long projects take. I'm just now getting into Dragon Quest. A big series of 80 hour games. And then I got 200+ books and movies on my "to consume" list between my 10-12 hour workdays and friends and family. Who cares how many years it takes for the Final Fantasy VII remake to come out? I got too much content and not enough time here on earth as it is.
@@Tamacat388 and i'm reading half a dozen manga, watching an anime, playing divinity original sin 2, but i still want updates on how deltarune is going. i wrote that comment in half a minute, would you like a more detailed example of what a spoiler free update would be, or do you want to quite being so pedantic while you're ahead?
@neoepochx I've seen a really good way of handling that issue from developers of Insurgency Sandstorm, Ready or Not and Project Wingman where they create a discord server and get everybody who's interested in there so that those who wish to be updated can get news on a regular basis can have those concerns addressed and their worries nullified. It works to a certain extent but it's not a "you ask question, you get answer" thing they're running and everything is more or less on their terms, if they want to release info or announce anything it will be at their discretion.
Oh man Pat jumping the gun and talking about something like it's absolute truth then admitting he hasn't been following it hardly at all SURE ISN'T A TALE WE'VE HEARD BEFORE God bless Woolie being here to pump the brakes and actually look stuff up
It's a standard procedure at this point where Pat present a topic and tries to explain it as best he could but he doesn't know everything so when Woolie ask a question in which he's unsure of the actual answer, Pat just give a placeholder plausible answer that he just pull out from his ass until they can confirm the thing. That's why it's always up to the chat to provide corrections and actual legit info in the case that Woolie doesn't just fact check it, which Pat did actually use to correct himself so it's not all bad.
That's the great thing about Pat. He'll usually admit he was wrong about something. Though we'll occasionally get those moments where he knows he is wrong, but refuses to change his stance on the matter.
Speaking of Oppressive Management techniques. Have you guys heard about the "supposed" development hell that is Mundfish and there current project Atomic Heart?
As a plumbing/pipefitting union apprentice I agree with pat here that sounds 100% like an issue that causes a union eventually. And his dad is right about plumbing work... because noone wants to be plumbers
If rich people with disposable income spend extra on organic food and blood-free diamonds, I wonder if they would pay extra for games that are free of slave labor.
Who in their right mind would want blood-free diamonds? How are you supposed to enjoy a sip of 180 year old vintage without that coppery tang of my diamond encrusted golden goblet?
@@SeasoningTheObese That's just a public education problem. Rich people are smarter because they have better education and grow up in an environment that prepares them to actually accomplish things and not just get by paycheck to paycheck.
@@SeasoningTheObese Have you never met a poor person who has just been fucked by the system or by circumstances? Mental health, family situation, relationships and many other factors affect poverty. If your parents were retarded and spent all their savings on useless shit and left their kid homeless, that kid isn't dumb. They just got fucked by someone ELSE'S stupidity and now have to live with the concequences. What about people with health issues that can't save much money because they have to spend their money on treatment to keep them alive?
The problem with Crunch just being a phase of development is manyfold but in particular the two issues I have are 1. It is always a failure of management. Full stop. Just because it's an industry norm and you can think of excuses does not mean it is ever justified and 2. It is like an objectively inferior and inefficient way to do work.
One thing on the "would you pay more or wait longer to avoid crunch?" idea, it doesn't really work at all when these companies are making an absolute ton of money and could easily take things easier but wouldn't make them as much money as their current setup. I have no faith they would make things better, they would just take more money.
Pursuant to Pat's question of "why not movies?" I think the answer has to do with the medium itself and the fact that video games, by their very nature, are like films that are constantly in production, in the sense that the story unravels in a new way EVERY time its played. Movies, by comparison, are pretty delimited. Occasionally a project will die due to endless reshoots that go nowhere, but almost always--for better or worse--you have a finite amount of footage to work with and, ultimately, only one version of the story that gets presented by the end. The "if you have time to lean, you have time to clean [bugs]" of video games is because--like a workplace inspection--a nearly infinite number of angles need to be taken into account because the player can look in any direction, whereas in a movie, the camera only looks one way and all the grips and other yahoos are (supposed to be) behind the camera when the story happens. "Games as a service" only extends that to infinity. ...plus most movie unions are REAL strong and the sectors that aren't properly unionized (see: CGI animation) are in about the same position vis-a-vis crunch and poor wages as most game devs.
Regular software development gets the job done with less crunch. It still happens, but nowhere near the point of the entire industry getting a rep like the gaming industry. It's an issue with industry culture imo, necessity can't be the major influencer.
Lawrence Of Vocelli’s well I don’t know about other people but for me it’s two things: his character can come off as too smarmy for me too find amusing, which I know is a me thing and I’m sure plenty of people find it perfectly amusing (more power to them if you ask me). Secondly I find it harder and harder with his newer videos to understand where he’s coming from if I don’t agree with what he says, which is essential for me in order to enjoy editorial videos. If I watch an opinion piece I don’t do so to affirm my own opinion but rather to be challenged into thinking away I didn’t before, even if I ultimately leave that video or article with the same opinion I had when I started it. I hope that makes sense, I kinda got long winded there.
I really like that Leauge's abbreviation is LoL, so I want them to call their hypothetical fighting game Arena of Legends so that the abbreviation can be AoL
To the point of "would you take a hit to games taking longer to make if it meant the developers aren't crunching?" I would say absolutely because unless you're expecting a direct sequel to a game to come out after it's released, you don't have any expectations of when a game is coming out until it's announced. One of the big problems with the AAA industry and why we see so many delays is that games are often announced years before they're ready and before it's even known for certain if they'll be able to ship. If every game was announced no more than 6 months before it launched, we'd still be getting games at the same rate as we do now, and we'd also be seeing less delays because they wouldn't be announced until the state of the game was much more certain.
Just like many companies, they were pressured into it a while ago because they did some wrongthink or something. After journalists gave them bad publicity they felt they had to accept things like diversity managers into the company. It happens a lot, especially in companies founded by gamers like Riot.
@@sttate it was a little bit more than ''wrongthink'. they were accused of having managers that harass employees, discriminate against women during hiring and promoting, and give preferential treatment to the work and ideas of male employees. employees talked about repeatedly receiving comments on their appearance, being sent unsolicited dick pics, and seeing e-mails about how their co-workers wanted to fuck them. their COO was accused of groping, humping, and farting on male employees. riot claims that all of their 'diversity and inclusion' initiatives were planned long before any articles were written. they didn't 'have to accept' these things, it's just business. they don't want a reputation as a sexist frat house of a company and there's a lot of money to be made if you can find ways of appealing to more than just men.
@@iMoD190 - That's an Obnoxiously one-sided view of Irresponsible Young people. I knew some _Gamer gurrlz_ who joined their ranks. They'd flirt with anyone to be more popular and then do a 180 when some socially awkward dude chimed in with something that felt subjectively "Creepy" to them. Riot itself is the PROBLEM... they don't get any real work done there, they actually play OTHER online Games even more than League. It's a huge Party-Palace basically and I can guarantee some of those complaints were from equally irresponsible young women who "revoked Consent" after they felt regret in not getting as much mileage (and raises) out of their compliance in stupid young people playing stupid games and winning stupid prizes (but meanwhile not getting a single new innovative Product launched!)
Why is crunching on one's own time a bad thing? If the Cuphead devs wanna put their heart and soul into a game and have nothing better to do the so what? I was with you guys until you talked of crunch as a bad thing in and of itself. It's one thing to force someone else to work too hard too fast and burn them out but doing stuff at your own pace is very different.
Sanitary Sanchez well make sure your company is in Canada, and you just slide a picture and a stack of cash to the road construction crew and your golden
Sooner or later, treating inequalities as if they're a scale and need to be pushed super-hard from the opposite side to be "equalised" is going to have bad, culture-scale consequences.
If a game came out and was a full game, with no season pass, not paid DLC, not microtransactions. And was more than 30+ hours. I would happily... HAPPILY pay a extra $20-$30. Ill pay $90 for a full game with those features. I ALREADY DO FOR JAPANESE IMPORTS! any gundam game is like $85+ plus $9 shipping
Sergeant Superbeast those 2 fanbases literally never cross. Sports fans only play sports games and souls fans are into RPGs therefore their 2 tiers above a smash fan and they dont even know what a sport is... Look at pat!
The difference between the movie industry and the game industry is that the movie industry has unions. This is almost always the answer to "why does this industry have people that get treated like shit."
Is that for the equipment workers specifically? Cause' weinstein didn't seem to care. Its not the only industry, I work in the I.T industry and I can confrim that this type of behavior is in full affect.
Thoorin basically exploded on Riot recently because of ther backroom dealing bullshit, and if you watch his video he goes over a lot of the behind the scenes controversy over the last few years that is less well known but Riot tries to keep a lid on
I can't imagine waiting longer/paying more for the same garbo live service games in exchange for better work conditions for employees of evil game company being an agreeable proposition for your average video game consumer.
Another difference between why this happens in games and not so much movies is that, yes, movies have existed longer than games and have become a unionized industry. But also, hollywood developed in a time when unions and labor movements were strong and supported by the government, up until the resurgence of neoliberal/classical economics during the late seventies to the present. Videogames pretty much developed when unions were the weakest.
Jim is a weird case in which you kind of have to like, seperate his videos into 2 columbs. A. Legitimately good Journalism, really good reporting, great comedic timing, and well written scripts and delivery. Great video, well done Jim. B. Oh lawd he's ranting about pointless SJW garbage and Virtue signalling again while telling us all we're wrong for disagreeing with him, abort now. After you watch him for a while you learn to spot B and bail early.
@@sasaki8765 Well there's that, but he also likes to blow a lot of issues out of proportion. He's constantly making Steam Greenlight seem like a catastrophic platform ending problem, and this was before any rape game controversy.
@@abraxas4261 that's because steam greenlight floods the market and damages the sales of indie games as well as the reputation of valve. there's a reason that the epic store was getting so much support and is still being supported by devs.
Normally I'd agree b/c f*** that hypocritical fat Twat! But his last video IS True. This is absolutely 100% a Top-Down problem where the biggest Wellfare-Queens in the WORLD who took 18 Trillion Dollars in Free Loans were the very people who set up this economic "Recovery" where even skilled Workers like Programmers can have literally No Bargaining power at all if it comes in conflict with the one and only requirement of the Shareholders to get their Double Digit Dividends (partially at the expense of all other Tax payers)
game development studios use a stand similar to pucci's called MADE IN HELL to gradually accelerate the crunch of time for their employees over the course of each game's development so that by the time the game has almost gone gold (requiem) the employees are experiencing each email thread as a single tweet and then suddenly the ones with the strongest cognitive denial wake up in a new game development studio, everything about them as a person that justified higher pay having never existed in this new reality, while the rest of the old studio's employees are cast into the patreonic void
Today on Super Beast Friends Say: - Major AAA corporation runs game development school to encourage people to come into the industry, only to then fire them a year down the line once the new graduates come in. - Pat exemplifies the “Man Covered in Shit Effect” by poorly parroting Jim Sterling, son. - Chewie and Fuckface brush upon the fact that the world is run on what is functionally slave labor, even to this day, cause “that’s just how the world works” or “it’s not feasible; we don’t have the money to pay for this otherwise.” This segment made me laugh, but not because it was super light hearted and fun. I just can’t be bothered to care anymore; thank you, the doldrums of everyday life in this modern waking nightmare.
So to answer Pat's question as to why it isn't so hard for these companies to outsource here's an example www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/us/last-task-after-layoff-at-disney-train-foreign-replacements.html
Man... I wanna go back to when kids would just play megaman and zelda and yell at eachother on the playground because Jimmy said some stupid rumor that isnt real but couldnt be proven wrong. And I was born in 1999 damnit.
"Titanfall 3 is delayed until Apex is no longer popular."
**5 months later**
"Alright, Apex isn't profitable anymore. Cancel Titanfall 3."
It makes me sad how plausible this even is apex is pretty good but Respawn are taking too long to do anything to keep their players
@@gamerguy6990 The reason why it's taking so long for Respawn to roll out the updates is apparently because they don't want to overwork their developers. Compare this to Fortnite, where they get updates rather often but the devs work something like 70 to 100 hours a week.
No no wait.
If you preorder Apex Legends 2 Maybe we will release Titanfall 3.
Yeah probably... yeah actually 😒
Kekpra Demon >preorders Apex 2
>Respawn announces they are now working on Apex 3 and dragging the Titanfall 3 folder to the recycling bin and hitting delete. While burning the script.
I would legitimately love to see “there was no crunch in the making of this game” in the opening credits of a game
Media Molecule are very open about them refusing to do crunch, which I guess is part of the reason why Dreams has taken so long to come out.
"This work of fiction was made by a multicultural team of various religious faiths and beliefs who were totally not under any kind of crunch."
Absolutely. Take an extra month or two if you have to. I'll wait. Game devs with high morale make great games. Game devs under crunch condition make stuff like Aliens Colonial Marines and Overkill's Walking Dead.
No by doing this, it just becomes a marketing point as opposed to an industry standard.
Honestly, crunch is fine, just not months and months of it. It's like, a 2 weeks before deadline for polishing thing. You can't make it 60% of the dev time.
The "Don't ask questions, just consume product" meme really is just the definitive descriptor of the past few years whether its game related, film or even politics.
@soliduswasright
It's the definitive descriptor of capitalism. In general.
Decades before crunch time of game devs there were enslaved communities in China of people fabricating fancy clothing for richer countries
@@chiyo-chanholocaust8143 there still are, most of my clothes are made in Bangladesh or some shit
@@Ilovevidgames123 And communism, to be completely honest.
"Unions in the USA, that's hilarious!," I say in a tired, defeated voice as i stare longingly at the revolver on my desk.
Sounds like the opening to a dark comedy crime film, with, say, a Goodfellas-esque narration in the background audio.
@Innocent Jogger Reminder that some unions turning communist more than half a century ago is no excuse to abandon unions as a negotiating strategy.
@Innocent Jogger You and I both know you've never worked a union job. Why pretend otherwise online?
@Innocent Jogger Man it's kind of hilarious seeing someone so deep into the right-wing kool-aid
Communism should be reworked, capitalism should be abolished
I hope these companies don't fill me up with product and turn me into a consumer.
mind break (11,792) full color (27,970)
I fucking hate that it took me less than 2 seconds to get this joke.
you'll never lose to cock
I worked at a Target with a character designer for Rockstar we were getting payed $10 a hour. He showed me screens of himself as a NPC in Red Dead Redemption 1 as proof. I asked him why he was working here and he said hes WAY happier now then when he was at Rockstar. Said it was the worst job he ever had.
When i see a woolie video i... *CONSUME PRODUCT, DONT ASK NO QUESTIONS*
This video is brought to you by virility and red bull.
Thankz for lokes
Why did you say the exact same product twice?
@stoopid I'm not gon let you get the chance I did, thats why i said that lol
They're different??
twisted jayTM isn't that just 5 hour energy drink
Lord, did red letter media call it with the consume product meme. God bless those guys
That's right, Jay!
They were lucky that their cynicism became so marketable. I find them super entertaining, but it's so clear they are checked out and don't want to review blockbusters anymore so they shouldn't. They can get back to "schlock" however that's defined and Star Trek.
@@MayorOfEarth79 They liked Endgame. And a lot of other big movies. I dont think they're actually as cynical about these movies as people seem to think.
(Rich evans' laugh)
@@Tamacat388 They liked Infinity War, not Endgame.
"Good thing nobody made a fuss about our decision to delay Titanfall to put more resources into Apex Legends, otherwise we might have to start starving our devs again, ISN'T THAT RIGHT LOYAL CONSUMER?" - EA in like 3 months probably
Regarding Cuphead, I'm a big advocate of, "THROW MONEY AT THE CRAZY!!"
Cap'n Woolies Gamer Crunch: Oops, all crunch!
Andrew Murphy it destroys the roof of your mouth... and weekends
Hey, Johnson can I see that baby pic again... Aw what a sweetheart.
Now I want you to look a at dear sweet Timmy and tell me how the realtime weather system is coming along.
Woolie's breakdown of game dev and crunch is 100% accurate and true. crunch is a bastard and it is always there, its not a new occurance
"Hey who keeps review bombing my baby!?"
If the Steam text is blue, the baby's all for you
If the Steam text is yellow, she's stayin' put, fellow
If the Steam text is red, off with her head
Who trashed my dead babie shadowman's bloodvertised burnout review?
@@darrianweathington1923 don't forget the Turok.
I love that CSB's highlight clips can be as long as any other podcast's shorter episodes
Zeebrungis because the oppressive skull boot and beautiful lumberjack jesus boot isn't on Darlington and Patty's necks anymore! 1 section from these 2 idiots is longer than most podcast
Remember to grab your bottle of SOMA on the way home
EA, actual supervillain entity, has figured out that they can leverage the BODILY AND MENTAL HEALTH of their developers, against their release schedule to get some good PR
Sacrifice the baby's HP for more Time on the Clock!
"How come the movie business gets away with hitting their deadlines?"
Sacrifices. Even for the big marvel movies which are swamped with cash, take a look back at Iron Man 2 and how tangible and real Tony's suit is, whereas if you watch infinity war that thing looks close to a video game graphic. Which makes sense, the money went to making Thanos as believable as possible and render all the space shit. But still, sacrifices.
Films get delayed all the time tho, rarely the big ones due to endless money but Fury Road had to uproot its whole shoot when they got a surprise wet aussie desert. And Titanic was moved to december for more effects time, which happened to work out better for oscars, and Tree of Life's release was moved a whole 2 years. Cabin in the Woods was almost shelved forever by a dying studio.
Then you have movies that dont even get to be finished, and are still released, which is what happened with The Snowman a couple years back. They had a really great director, bit a whole 15% wasnt shot due to weather and not enough shooting time, which crippled the film.
These things happen, they're just usually better managed or immediately forgotten.
12:40, that's the thing Pat, you had a UNION!
I believe he understands that. Thats his point.
If you add the extra cost of paying employees decent wages the cost of the things you buy would increase by much less than 10%. That $800 iphone without slave labor would be about $810.
The cheap plastic cups that Walmart sells for $1 each? They pay a single penny for a dozen. Not a penny each, a penny for a dozen.
Most products have a markup of at least x100. Much, much more if you buy big name brands.
So literally all labor problems in a company could be solved by the CEO giving up his fifth yacht?
@@jjj7790 a majority yeah
I would be okay with games taking longer to come out and avoiding crunch. However, I would like more periodic updates and community interaction as a result. Radio silence for many, many years leads to concerns and fearing the worst.
...but spoilers
@@Tamacat388 you don't need to fill the updates with spoilers, just things like "hey, we're about halfway through the game now, here's some concept art that failed to make the cut", etc.
@@Yal_Rathol Those would just be pretty nebulous and useless updates. What "halfway" means could change as the project expands or contracts in size. Concepts can get cut or reworked back into the game ect.
Really people just need to expand their interests and consume so much content that it dont matter how long projects take.
I'm just now getting into Dragon Quest. A big series of 80 hour games. And then I got 200+ books and movies on my "to consume" list between my 10-12 hour workdays and friends and family. Who cares how many years it takes for the Final Fantasy VII remake to come out? I got too much content and not enough time here on earth as it is.
@@Tamacat388 and i'm reading half a dozen manga, watching an anime, playing divinity original sin 2, but i still want updates on how deltarune is going. i wrote that comment in half a minute, would you like a more detailed example of what a spoiler free update would be, or do you want to quite being so pedantic while you're ahead?
@neoepochx
I've seen a really good way of handling that issue from developers of Insurgency Sandstorm, Ready or Not and Project Wingman where they create a discord server and get everybody who's interested in there so that those who wish to be updated can get news on a regular basis can have those concerns addressed and their worries nullified. It works to a certain extent but it's not a "you ask question, you get answer" thing they're running and everything is more or less on their terms, if they want to release info or announce anything it will be at their discretion.
First it was the Super Best Friendcast, then it became Castle Superbeast, and now it's Ring of Fire Radio.
Oh man Pat jumping the gun and talking about something like it's absolute truth then admitting he hasn't been following it hardly at all SURE ISN'T A TALE WE'VE HEARD BEFORE
God bless Woolie being here to pump the brakes and actually look stuff up
It's a standard procedure at this point where Pat present a topic and tries to explain it as best he could but he doesn't know everything so when Woolie ask a question in which he's unsure of the actual answer, Pat just give a placeholder plausible answer that he just pull out from his ass until they can confirm the thing. That's why it's always up to the chat to provide corrections and actual legit info in the case that Woolie doesn't just fact check it, which Pat did actually use to correct himself so it's not all bad.
That's the great thing about Pat. He'll usually admit he was wrong about something. Though we'll occasionally get those moments where he knows he is wrong, but refuses to change his stance on the matter.
@@TAMAMO-VIRUS thats why we love Yoshikage Pat
@@TAMAMO-VIRUS Pat literally throws a dart at a mountain range and wherever it lands he chooses to die on that hill.
Speaking of Oppressive Management techniques. Have you guys heard about the "supposed" development hell that is Mundfish and there current project Atomic Heart?
Noooo, I don't want to hear that, that game looks cool.
As a plumbing/pipefitting union apprentice I agree with pat here that sounds 100% like an issue that causes a union eventually. And his dad is right about plumbing work... because noone wants to be plumbers
"That sounds illegal"
This is America
Don't catch you slipping up
Close your eyes tight and open your mouth wide.
An ominous sentence if I've ever heard one.
feed me daddy Woolz
It's like a penis
If rich people with disposable income spend extra on organic food and blood-free diamonds, I wonder if they would pay extra for games that are free of slave labor.
Who in their right mind would want blood-free diamonds? How are you supposed to enjoy a sip of 180 year old vintage without that coppery tang of my diamond encrusted golden goblet?
@@SeasoningTheObese That's just a public education problem. Rich people are smarter because they have better education and grow up in an environment that prepares them to actually accomplish things and not just get by paycheck to paycheck.
@@SeasoningTheObese Have you never met a poor person who has just been fucked by the system or by circumstances? Mental health, family situation, relationships and many other factors affect poverty. If your parents were retarded and spent all their savings on useless shit and left their kid homeless, that kid isn't dumb. They just got fucked by someone ELSE'S stupidity and now have to live with the concequences. What about people with health issues that can't save much money because they have to spend their money on treatment to keep them alive?
@@SeasoningTheObese ow the edge
I currently work in retail purgatory at a grocery store. We just hired a new guy that makes $300 a month selling his blood plasma.
W4rhe4rt thats rough
Work in a grocery store too. Let's just say life isn't happy for me.
If you aren't out then get out now. I quit two months ago and I'm better than ever
The problem with Crunch just being a phase of development is manyfold but in particular the two issues I have are 1. It is always a failure of management. Full stop. Just because it's an industry norm and you can think of excuses does not mean it is ever justified and 2. It is like an objectively inferior and inefficient way to do work.
I see that you are redhead for a reason comrade Pat.
I've always said that Jim sterling and SBFP have that Breadtube content
"Put the baby in the metacritic" WOOLIE, NOOOOOOOO!!!
Pat is really good at saying fuck you, maybe Pat should be the Montreal game creators union 1st president
One thing on the "would you pay more or wait longer to avoid crunch?" idea, it doesn't really work at all when these companies are making an absolute ton of money and could easily take things easier but wouldn't make them as much money as their current setup.
I have no faith they would make things better, they would just take more money.
Pat, I lost it at "crunch locker"
Pursuant to Pat's question of "why not movies?" I think the answer has to do with the medium itself and the fact that video games, by their very nature, are like films that are constantly in production, in the sense that the story unravels in a new way EVERY time its played.
Movies, by comparison, are pretty delimited. Occasionally a project will die due to endless reshoots that go nowhere, but almost always--for better or worse--you have a finite amount of footage to work with and, ultimately, only one version of the story that gets presented by the end.
The "if you have time to lean, you have time to clean [bugs]" of video games is because--like a workplace inspection--a nearly infinite number of angles need to be taken into account because the player can look in any direction, whereas in a movie, the camera only looks one way and all the grips and other yahoos are (supposed to be) behind the camera when the story happens.
"Games as a service" only extends that to infinity.
...plus most movie unions are REAL strong and the sectors that aren't properly unionized (see: CGI animation) are in about the same position vis-a-vis crunch and poor wages as most game devs.
G A M E R S O C I A L I S M
Hammer Bros and Sickles
seize the means of development
Chewie and Fuckface go on chapo
The government needs to code for us
Regular software development gets the job done with less crunch. It still happens, but nowhere near the point of the entire industry getting a rep like the gaming industry. It's an issue with industry culture imo, necessity can't be the major influencer.
Eat the rich.
Hearing Pat just repeat Jim Sterling arguments poorly brings me unspeakable amounts of joy
I’ve never understood the Jim Sterling hate, I’ll be honest. Is it the fan base or something? Or do people not like the character he puts on?
Lawrence Of Vocelli’s well I don’t know about other people but for me it’s two things: his character can come off as too smarmy for me too find amusing, which I know is a me thing and I’m sure plenty of people find it perfectly amusing (more power to them if you ask me). Secondly I find it harder and harder with his newer videos to understand where he’s coming from if I don’t agree with what he says, which is essential for me in order to enjoy editorial videos. If I watch an opinion piece I don’t do so to affirm my own opinion but rather to be challenged into thinking away I didn’t before, even if I ultimately leave that video or article with the same opinion I had when I started it.
I hope that makes sense, I kinda got long winded there.
@@masonallemand-riles8625 I'm guessing you're talking about his recent videos where he openly critiques capitalism?
Some random guy on the internet I didn’t know he made a video about that, thanks for letting me know, might be an interesting watch.
0:00 Woolie: Aaaaaanuuusssss
I really like that Leauge's abbreviation is LoL, so I want them to call their hypothetical fighting game Arena of Legends so that the abbreviation can be AoL
sozcan and it'll run on linux
I assume Pat's blood has the same properties as Red Bull, so yes gimme some
I wasn't interested in his blood till he mentioned a mini-pat clone then I was all for it.
@@parker469a A mini pat clone that screams in your face when you go to the bathroom "THIS IS DISGUISTING! YOU ARE DISGUISTING!"
@@parker469a red blood cells contain no DNA. so, good luck with that, unless you have a high powered centrifuge.
The Game Devs King Crimson the babies out of the parents' hands.
35:51
"This game was expressly made with Crunch time"
36:20
The start of the Crunch baby talk.
To the point of "would you take a hit to games taking longer to make if it meant the developers aren't crunching?" I would say absolutely because unless you're expecting a direct sequel to a game to come out after it's released, you don't have any expectations of when a game is coming out until it's announced. One of the big problems with the AAA industry and why we see so many delays is that games are often announced years before they're ready and before it's even known for certain if they'll be able to ship. If every game was announced no more than 6 months before it launched, we'd still be getting games at the same rate as we do now, and we'd also be seeing less delays because they wouldn't be announced until the state of the game was much more certain.
When a company doesn't pay artist that's just a no no
This story's so interesting, but after his Anthem coverage I cant be getting my news from Pat unless Woolie can confirm lol.
Woolie's eerily perfect suction cup noise ruined me
Diamonds are not even that valuable, people are dying for what is essentially the equivalent of Fools gold.
I’d say it’s best use is...diamond drill-bits?
Be cautious when going to kotaku and waypoint for facts.
4:56
Welp, Fighter Legends is out as 2XKO and pretty fun 😅. Funny hearing the Apex/Titanfall 3 story here too
How to solve the Riot problem?
Tactical Defenestration
Depends on the product. Like new Platinum games or Mileena in MK11...
AfroMetalMizu well... someone is topical
if you want to go full consume product there is fallout 76, anthem.
We need a pat fuckboivin pkushy
Me enjoy cave speak.
And here I thought Riot was all about that inclusivity
Y-yeah man. Hah, INCLUSIVE TO THE WOMENS TO UH....You know for the like, the boobies? SEX JOKE. Right bro!?
Just like many companies, they were pressured into it a while ago because they did some wrongthink or something. After journalists gave them bad publicity they felt they had to accept things like diversity managers into the company. It happens a lot, especially in companies founded by gamers like Riot.
@@sttate it was a little bit more than ''wrongthink'.
they were accused of having managers that harass employees, discriminate against women during hiring and promoting, and give preferential treatment to the work and ideas of male employees. employees talked about repeatedly receiving comments on their appearance, being sent unsolicited dick pics, and seeing e-mails about how their co-workers wanted to fuck them. their COO was accused of groping, humping, and farting on male employees.
riot claims that all of their 'diversity and inclusion' initiatives were planned long before any articles were written. they didn't 'have to accept' these things, it's just business. they don't want a reputation as a sexist frat house of a company and there's a lot of money to be made if you can find ways of appealing to more than just men.
@@iMoD190 - That's an Obnoxiously one-sided view of Irresponsible Young people. I knew some _Gamer gurrlz_ who joined their ranks. They'd flirt with anyone to be more popular and then do a 180 when some socially awkward dude chimed in with something that felt subjectively "Creepy" to them. Riot itself is the PROBLEM... they don't get any real work done there, they actually play OTHER online Games even more than League. It's a huge Party-Palace basically and I can guarantee some of those complaints were from equally irresponsible young women who "revoked Consent" after they felt regret in not getting as much mileage (and raises) out of their compliance in stupid young people playing stupid games and winning stupid prizes (but meanwhile not getting a single new innovative Product launched!)
@@iller3 if you read the claims of former and current employees, both male and female, the situation at riot is not at all what you say it is.
I kind of hate that you can hardly be positive about/defend anything without people calling you a shill or quoting this.
@CLANG CLANG CLANG CLANG Also this. Really, all those labels could be summarized as "I don't want to hear your opinion, so shut up."
Talking on the internet is very hard.
@@Tamacat388 words are hard
RLM's memes are forever.
I respect the idea of chucking money at a madman because his insanity is kinda great.
Why is crunching on one's own time a bad thing? If the Cuphead devs wanna put their heart and soul into a game and have nothing better to do the so what? I was with you guys until you talked of crunch as a bad thing in and of itself. It's one thing to force someone else to work too hard too fast and burn them out but doing stuff at your own pace is very different.
if i run a company i'm having anyone who threatens to sue executed, lol
for legal reasons this is a joke
Its smooth sailing until the executioner needs a break.
@@LifeIsForEmos8D then we hire three executioners, they take it in shifts and if one complains, the other two kill him and we replace him.
Sanitary Sanchez well make sure your company is in Canada, and you just slide a picture and a stack of cash to the road construction crew and your golden
Yal Rathol its like a infinite loop of genius
Pat: League of fighters will never happen
*C R A Z Y T A L K N O I S E S*
Kotaku is bad enough but why would ever EVER read Waypoint.
Doesn't Riot know it's 2019? You're supposed to go to the opposite extreme.
Sooner or later, treating inequalities as if they're a scale and need to be pushed super-hard from the opposite side to be "equalised" is going to have bad, culture-scale consequences.
"extreme"
@@Copperhell144 I mean it's already happening. Just look at the statistics for young men's education level, suicide rate, unemployment, etc.
"10 Dollar could be footlong or 5 beer"
If a game came out and was a full game, with no season pass, not paid DLC, not microtransactions. And was more than 30+ hours. I would happily... HAPPILY pay a extra $20-$30. Ill pay $90 for a full game with those features. I ALREADY DO FOR JAPANESE IMPORTS! any gundam game is like $85+ plus $9 shipping
Yeah but what about Jimmy McMinimum wage? He'll be pissed that his Madden is 75 dollars
@@fenris5932 and we'll stop seeing those games and the world will be a better place. :^)
@@johnbuscher What if Jimmy McMinimumwage is a Souls fan too?
Sergeant Superbeast those 2 fanbases literally never cross. Sports fans only play sports games and souls fans are into RPGs therefore their 2 tiers above a smash fan and they dont even know what a sport is...
Look at pat!
this got too real all of a sudden
The difference between the movie industry and the game industry is that the movie industry has unions.
This is almost always the answer to "why does this industry have people that get treated like shit."
Is that for the equipment workers specifically? Cause' weinstein didn't seem to care.
Its not the only industry, I work in the I.T industry and I can confrim that this type of behavior is in full affect.
remember when Sega used to lock some guy in an empty room with a computer and not allow him to leave until the code was completed
Fuck, I just want Star Trek. Can we just have Star Trek already? I want everyone to be able to work towards their own passion projects.
Thoorin basically exploded on Riot recently because of ther backroom dealing bullshit, and if you watch his video he goes over a lot of the behind the scenes controversy over the last few years that is less well known but Riot tries to keep a lid on
You know what they say... there's no ethical consumption under late capitalism
I can't imagine waiting longer/paying more for the same garbo live service games in exchange for better work conditions for employees of evil game company being an agreeable proposition for your average video game consumer.
But if the game company provides better conditions for employees, why are they evil?
We all have indirect bloodshed in everything we do. Makes me stressed and anxiety ridden everyday.
Game dev tycoon extreme
Another difference between why this happens in games and not so much movies is that, yes, movies have existed longer than games and have become a unionized industry. But also, hollywood developed in a time when unions and labor movements were strong and supported by the government, up until the resurgence of neoliberal/classical economics during the late seventies to the present. Videogames pretty much developed when unions were the weakest.
32:35 fuck that I’ll wait an actual year until that shit is free
God, I can relate to everything Pat says about retail hell. Fuck retail.
The second Pat brings up a Jim Sterling video it's time to tap out
Jim is a weird case in which you kind of have to like, seperate his videos into 2 columbs.
A. Legitimately good Journalism, really good reporting, great comedic timing, and well written scripts and delivery. Great video, well done Jim.
B. Oh lawd he's ranting about pointless SJW garbage and Virtue signalling again while telling us all we're wrong for disagreeing with him, abort now.
After you watch him for a while you learn to spot B and bail early.
@@sasaki8765 Pretty much
@@sasaki8765 Well there's that, but he also likes to blow a lot of issues out of proportion. He's constantly making Steam Greenlight seem like a catastrophic platform ending problem, and this was before any rape game controversy.
@@abraxas4261 that's because steam greenlight floods the market and damages the sales of indie games as well as the reputation of valve. there's a reason that the epic store was getting so much support and is still being supported by devs.
Normally I'd agree b/c f*** that hypocritical fat Twat! But his last video IS True. This is absolutely 100% a Top-Down problem where the biggest Wellfare-Queens in the WORLD who took 18 Trillion Dollars in Free Loans were the very people who set up this economic "Recovery" where even skilled Workers like Programmers can have literally No Bargaining power at all if it comes in conflict with the one and only requirement of the Shareholders to get their Double Digit Dividends (partially at the expense of all other Tax payers)
Voice from the future: A game did come out about this: Outer Worlds
Pat just shows hes a sucker for terrible "journalists" and just accepts what hes told...
He meant Use blood to clone an even more TINY Llittler Pat lmao.
37:40 That's a descent to madness if I ever saw one.
descent.
"If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a video game developer's face forever"
- George Orwell
I could really use the smarm on the first 3/4ths of this video for good AND evil. Especially for evil.
The suction cup sound effect...
>me genuinely certain I’m stupid enough to fuck up being a plumber
game development studios use a stand similar to pucci's called MADE IN HELL to gradually accelerate the crunch of time for their employees over the course of each game's development so that by the time the game has almost gone gold (requiem) the employees are experiencing each email thread as a single tweet and then suddenly the ones with the strongest cognitive denial wake up in a new game development studio, everything about them as a person that justified higher pay having never existed in this new reality, while the rest of the old studio's employees are cast into the patreonic void
I hope abortion sonic is a special feature on the sonic bluray
37:00 omg some body please animate this 😂😂😂😂 wow!
Today on Super Beast Friends Say:
- Major AAA corporation runs game development school to encourage people to come into the industry, only to then fire them a year down the line once the new graduates come in.
- Pat exemplifies the “Man Covered in Shit Effect” by poorly parroting Jim Sterling, son.
- Chewie and Fuckface brush upon the fact that the world is run on what is functionally slave labor, even to this day, cause “that’s just how the world works” or “it’s not feasible; we don’t have the money to pay for this otherwise.”
This segment made me laugh, but not because it was super light hearted and fun. I just can’t be bothered to care anymore; thank you, the doldrums of everyday life in this modern waking nightmare.
Don't defend the crunching time, Woolie, they're just exploiting the developers.
He's playing devil's advocate.
Woolie, for fuck's sake. Install an ad blocker. Please.
So to answer Pat's question as to why it isn't so hard for these companies to outsource here's an example www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/us/last-task-after-layoff-at-disney-train-foreign-replacements.html
When will Woolie put aside the podcasts and finally help Pat reclaim Moria?
As a plumber. Pat's Dad was right
Ooooh, RoosterBeast. That's good shit, Woolie. Also, fuck crunch.
Man... I wanna go back to when kids would just play megaman and zelda and yell at eachother on the playground because Jimmy said some stupid rumor that isnt real but couldnt be proven wrong. And I was born in 1999 damnit.