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Roller-Delayed 5.56 Rifles: CETME L VS. Heckler & Koch G41
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.พ. 2020
- In this video we compare two of the last roller-delayed production rifles: the Spanish CETME Modelo L and the Heckler & Koch G41. These rifles represent the last evolutions of two strands of the roller-delayed development tree - the Spanish and the German.
Check out our detailed accompanying blog for more photos and info - armourersbench.com/2020/02/12/...
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Thank for watching chaps! You can find our accompanying article for this video here - armourersbench.com/2020/02/16/cetme-l-vs-hk-g41/
If you enjoyed the video, please consider supporting us over on Patreon, check out the perks we have available here - www.patreon.com/thearmourersbench Thanks again! - Matt
Actually, cetme L has a holder button! Can't you see it? Not too reliable, though.
Spanish guns of the 1980s like Model L and Ameli where great Firearm designs let down by poor manufacturing. The American remanufactured Cetmes appear to not have any major issues.
It is interesting to see the CETME L is just do the same general idea but in a way that simplifies vastly the manufacture and necessary precision of the parts. Compared to the HK33 and G41 the CETME L bolt looks like it was carved with stone-age tools.
In a way it's amazingly brilliant.
Great video, and great looking rifles!
Mad that there are now belt fed light machine guns (like the knights LAMG) that weighs the same as the G41.
The CETME L kinda looks like a cyberpunk gun.
The CETME Model L was let down by being built to a low cost that caused issues with durability. The Spanish also persisted with straight walled magazines which suffered from the same issues the 25 and early 30 round AR15 magazines did i.e. the follower having to accommodate the taper of the 5.56mm case. This was alleviated in the 30 round AR mags with the curve in the lower of the magazine housing. In the Model L the follower was meant to tilt to a severe angle to accommodate the taper... this was never successful and proved a source of unreliability that plagued the Model L all its service life. Spanish soldiers would 'beg, borrow, or acquire' AR magazines which proved problematic due to the magazine well not accommodating the curve in 30 round magazines!!!
It should be noted that the civilianized 'sporter' rifles manufactured in the USA have been modified to work correctly with AR mags... finally the CETME Model L works reliably😉
In some Guardia Civil units (a special police unit for rural areas) they replaced the CETME L with the older, yet more reliable and lethal, CETME C. 7.62×51 instead of 5.56 NATO, but they prefer using lower cap mags, learning to control the recoil and having a bulkier rifle rather than using that piece of shit. And the design was good, but the money spent destroyed the rifle.
You are welcome. I'm sure you can do a better video on the Stg-45 and Gerot 06 than Ian of Forgotten Weapon as he never does complete research before a video and only had access to on of John Cross and Jim Kramer's semi-auto Stg-45's for the video review. Where you have much more readily acess to the Pattern Room Museum etc where you could get your hands on originals of both guns. i'm looking forward to it. And don't call Me Timothy.
From what Ian and Karl of InRange Tv have shown and said about these rifles the Cetme L seems to be the more practical of the two. It seems to be more reliable not haveing G41 probems of extracting and ejecting spent cases. Also since the Cetme has slower rate of fire than G41 its more controllable in full auto than the G41 rifle. Its also quite alot lighter than the G41. The only big problems Cetme has are the akward system of bolt hold open and no good option to mount optics on the gun since the rear sight assembly takes a huge space on top of the receiver. I guess they could have done the bolt hold open much more simpler and ergonomical by having a charging handle that you can push into a notch in the charging handle tube similar to the MP 40 submachine gun
CETME L is a good example of great engineering projects that were poorly executed, due to shabby manufacturing techniques, materials and QC, but the worst thing was always the one critical element of the weapon system that, if neglected and underdeveloped (which happens often), causes most failures of the weapon ie. magazines, and for that alone Model L deserves its place among the trio of the worst military assault rifles, right between British SA80 in its L85A1 iteration and Indian 1st gen INSAS.
We will have a dedicated video on the L soon hopefully!
Oooft. I don't think it's as bad as either of those. INSAS is a complete mess. Similarly with the SA80. The advantage of the CETME L over the SA80, is that German engineers were involved before production had begun.
Were there issues present? Oh yeah. But that seems to be more due to magwell issues vs, absolutely dogshit manufacturing/cost savings from non-firearm engineers (read: Politicians).
If you want to use AR mags for your HK get a MAD 33AR or other clone with a modified mag release.
I love both rifles! 😍😘😙😚
Why's the G41 so much heavier than the CETME? Where's the extra weight coming from?
Your wrong about the hk 41 being the last roller delayed weapon that hk has produced. In fact the hk mp5 10mm/40cal is the last roller delayed weapon that hk has produced.
What's the thickness of CETME receiver compared to the G41?
Sadly didn't have any calipers with me on that research trip. Sorry, but thank you for watching. - Matt
@@TheArmourersBench Don't worry, worse case scenario I'll just annoy Ian McCollum into measuring his CETME L.
@@ShortT-RexLikeArms Check out Mishaco s comparison video abaut american repro kit builds of Model L, if I am not mistaken You will find the information You are looking for there
Cheers.
Are these demilled rifles or working ones?
Working. Would specify if deactivated.
Muchas ocasiones cuando habláis de CETME ,mencionáis los ingenieros alemanes obviando los ingenieros Españoles y toda las experiencia armamentista . Es un producto español , lo hacéis para quitar relevancia al hecho . Cosa que no veo que se haga con la multitud de materiales y armamentos que se desarrollaron en otros países con los conocimientos esenciales de los alemanes ,en USA, Francia, Gran Bretaña.
Many times when you talk about CETME, you mention the German engineers ignoring the Spanish engineers and all the weapons experience. It is a Spanish product, you do it to remove relevance to the fact. Which I do not see is done with the multitude of materials and weapons that were developed in other countries with the essential knowledge of the Germans, in the USA, France and Great Britain.
I don't believe I've ignored the Spanish engineers. Just comparing two roller delayed 5.56x45 rifles built around the same time. Two very different approaches. I thought I was quite even handed, I like the CETME L. We'll be a little more in depth on the CETME L' s development in a future video.
@@TheArmourersBench
I was not referring specifically to you, it was a general criticism. Greetings.
Ahh I'm sorry, I understand! You're quite right though, a lot is made of the early influence of the German engineers. But I'm not even sure any of them were still present when the later designs were developed! Fair to say they were definitely Spanish led projects. We'll look more into that when we come to look at the L on its own.
It started as the stg 43/4
I believe you made a mistake. The lineage of these guns starts with the German WWII MKb Gerot 06 and STG-45(M) rifles.
Technically, but for that history you can check out our Rheinmetall G3 video for the lineage. We'll also have videos on the Gerat 06H and 45(M) later this year as we shot some replicas. Of course the design team working at CETME, and before that CEAM in France, shared members. The CETME guns were the first production iteration of the family, which was my meaning here. Thanks for watching! - Matt
@@TheArmourersBench Not going to lie, that's a classy response. I knew there was more than one reason to subscribe a long time ago.
CETME L isn't the best gun out there...but good lord it's way better than some other options (looking at you SA80/most of the Chinese designs that are not direct ripoffs of existing engineering).
@Timothy Soen
Thanks Timothy, I saw his point and I could have made it clearer in the video in fairness. I'm always open to feedback and I like talking to everyone in the comments. I was pretty impressed by the CETME L. They're cool guns, quality control appears to have been the main issue rather than the design itself. It's fascinating to see how they simplified everything compared to the HK guns. I still need to make those videos on the 06H and 45(M)!
@@TheArmourersBench Absolutely. I love Ian's take on various pieces; but more video and discussion of historic arms is my jam.
Keep up the good work.
Not to say I have any special abilities for picking great channels. But a lot of channels I started following when they were really small are so much bigger. IIRC, I started following ForgottenWeapons when they were still in the 20k range. I hopped on C&Rsanal around 5k. I watched Drachnifel celebrate his 50k subscriber moment.
I can't guarantee long term success, but I think you've got the chutzpah to really make it work long term.
@@SlavicCelery Yes and as @ccfmfg mentioned earlier I'll hopefully get to have a look at some original examples once the COVID-19 restrictions lift.
Ahh thank you well, let's hope that's a good omen. Those are three great channels to be compared to. Hoping to hit 10,000 before the end of the year 🤞
The Germans copied a copy of the Spanish rifle and created the G3 rifle.
The Germans bought the manufacturing license to produce the Spanish rifle but of course the Spanish rifle was designed by German engineers.