Funny anecdote from a friend of mine who got issued a LV during his military service back in the 90's. The day they received the rifles a NCO warned "This guy (The SUSAT sight) costs 250k pesetas (Our currency back in the day, a conscript salary back then was 1500 pesetas per month), you fuck it, you pay it". The solution ? Covering the whole sight with bubble wrap and duct tape while on manouvers.
@@nirfz Man... I wish we had that kind of quality controls here. G36's are, by far, superior to the Cetme L, but they still have some flaws. The main complaint I've heard of is the folding stock's tendency to crack with heavy use
100% I took a metals class in high-school. One of the projects was a welding project where you had to make a box that can hold water. In typical amateur fashion I didn't have a consistent bead & had high & low patches. It wasn't extreme but it was 100% obvious so my teacher told me to fill it with water & it didn't leak but out of curiosity he had me take it to the grinder (probably to test how well the weld held) & so I did, it looked a lot better then we tested it again & it passed but we couldn't tell if there was a tinny pin hole or if there was water dripping off the sides. I think I got a 75 or 80 on that project
I remember being at a welding class, the teacher literally showing "how it is done", flawless stuff. I thought to myself, "well, this can't be that hard to do". Obviously, after my first try I was thinking "well, shiiiit".
Nice, but... the Armada CETMEs had 'FN' ('Fuerza Naval' = Naval Force) before the serial number instead 'ET' ('Ejército de Tierra' = Land Army); and yes the LVs had their own detachable rear sights with two side screws kinda like the SUSAT, they were mainly used (at least in my Tercio, el Tercio Norte) for storage. It was mounted quite forward on that block, while most the SUSATs were stored by their own in the 'pañol' ('pañol' = the weapons/ammo room); the SUSATs were mounted on that rail quite backwards and were provided with several weights that mount forward on that rail, on my company we had 3 LVs with the SUSAT and the weights permanently and it (the SUSAT) was covered with a kind of spongy cover, i think it was made out of neoprene.
@@jizzwizard4077 Nope, he says he was part of the Tercio Norte. That's Spanish Marines, of course under the overall command of the Armada (Navy). The Spanish Legion is part of the Ejercito de Tierra (Army) For reference, the Legion has four Tercios, 1st to 4th, named (in sequence), "Gran Capitán", "Duque de Alba", "Don Juan de Austria" and "Alejandro Farnesio".
@@ramjb yes... Real Cuerpo de Infanteria de Mariana....I'm a bit sick about reading .Spanish Marines,. Spain was the first country to develop this kind of corp( or maybe task force should be more accurate )in 1537. Basically, we were the first country to develop an Amphibious force... By the way, I used the LV for a while in the mid 90's when I was part of the Tercio de la Armada ( BDI) in San Fernando, with the susat scope.The scope wasn't bad, but the CETME, was a piece of crap. I really missed the old Chopo (Cetme C ) at that time
@@reallife3338 This is usually what someone who doesn't weld for a living would say. That said, feathering tacks and grinding out wagontracks before fill or cover passes is one thing, and Ian's welding might be, well, something else entirely. But you definitely can not be a welder without owning a grinder. At least not one that passes any tests or delivers actually safe and structurally reliable results.
My ex brother-in-law is the Boiler Maker, I just run the grinder when we do hoe projects because I can't weld worth a damn. It doesn't bother me, I'm an electrician by trade.
But the weapons of the Guardia Civil are the awfull ones... CETME: Cada Esquina Tiene Mierda Escondida. XD Greetings from Spain, here we don't use high Quality materials for those rifles.
@@Pokesus You are wrong. The CETME C was great and there were two kind of CETME L series: the awful ones, for the militia, and the good ones, for the professional soldiers and the GC. The GC still retains the CETME LV because it's great.
@@joaquinandreu8530 Uh. You must be the first guy ever who says the professional soldiers got "the good ones". I've heard true horror stories about the reliability (or lack thereof) of their CETME Ls coming from guys both in the Army and Spanish Marines. The GC did get good ones. But that's because they got the first batches of the rifle, which were well built using proper materials, springs, good manufacturing and quality control. Then Those Who Make Decisions (which in Spain means...well you know what it means) decided to cheapskate on materials and build quality, and the whole rest of the series (issued to all branches who were intended to get the rifle, meaning Army too) was utter shit. The base design was very solid and good, the manufacturing and materials were crap. Only reliable CETME Ls were the initial batch - and those are the ones still in comission today. Nothing of that applies to the Chopo (the CETME C). That one was as tough and reliable as a normal G3 would be, because they also were properly built. But the L, out of the mentioned first batches, was truly a piece of shit.
@@ramjb same happened with the AMELI, and, if I remember correctly, also with some batches of the LAG-40, presenting minor reliability issues with grenades that weren't built by Santa Bárbara Sistemas
@@ramjb Just as a fun note, im from Spain and my father used and practiced with the older model while on the Army, the CETME-C, and he tells me the gun was heavy, but VERY reliable.
My understanding is that SUSAT wasn't really intended for a designated marksman role as it was a general issue piece of kit. In that context you couple argue the large reticule makes sense as better suited to snap shooting and better target identification than raw precision shooting. Does make you wonder why the Spanish adopted it for that role though - robust and maybe cheap?
@@zoiders Maybe so. But were the two put in front of me and I given the choice, I'd take the Enosa. Build quality is not trumped by usability at least in my opinion. Both were nice options for their time, though.
@@zoiders Both have a bdc compensated dial. "very positive" clicks mean nothing unless you are shooting twilight at 300yd, and like you said neither are DMR optics. i will admit, however, that the extra field of view is a major benefit on a fighting optic. But the ultra short eye relief which can hinder positional shooting and an atrocious reticle that takes up 10% of that extra field of view (sadly in the single most important part of the sight picture) detract from that greatly. Also very important to note that the enosa setup here has full length backup sights for adverse conditions. I respect that you really like the susat, however I still respectfully disagree with your conclusuons. I'd still take the enosa.
@@zoiders It is okay for us to disagree. You are comfortable with the Susat and confidence/trust in your equipment is almost as important as the equipment itself. My opinion is just that, an opinion. If I had to chose between EITHER of them and the trijicon 1-4 currently on my rifle, it would be a no brainer. I've always been a sucker for lightweight, simple, no frills optics on a light rifle. having not used an Enosa or Susat, it is merely conjecture for me.
I concur, as a hunter I personally love the OD Green Cerakote color so much so I even had my old waterfowling shotgun my Beretta Silver Mallard completely redone in OD Green as well as my Pork Sword .300blk bolt action pistol made in that color as well. It’s an absolutely beautifully functional color that’s camouflage all in itself.
I've always wondered why it has such a large mount - it looks as if it was supposed to fit on something else, and needed an adapter, but it has the same mount on the SA80.
The SUSAT is something to shout about because although the L85A1 was far, far from even aspiring to perfect the optic gave every front line soldier a 3x power scope greatly improving individual accuracy which has been built on ever since.
The SUIT sight's top-down post was designed that way so that it uncovered the target under recoil, allowing you to witness the target effect/ fall of shot. It was a bit weird to get used to, but highly effective for its purpose. With the move to 5.56mm in a heavy rifle with less recoil and shorter intended engagement ranges, a bottom-up post was sufficient.
Those adjustment nuts on the side of the susat where a complete pain always working loose & the emergency battle sight front post was like aiming with a mars bar! But when it worked properly & the zero didn't wonder it wasn't too bad to shoot with.
Wondering more than a bit at the decision to permanently afix the sight or mounting blocks. The G3 style claw mount seems to offer greater flexibility and utility.
@@KeterMalkuth I'm thinking more from an armorer and logistics point of view. Multiple supply streams, and being locked in to a single, or set of, optics. It limits your future options, too. I have a claw mount, and have had no issues with zero retention; the trick is to not be mounting and dismounting you optics as a habitual thing. When you dismount the optics, yes, you *will* need to check your zero. But that's kinda normal. I'll grant that the claw mount does encourage that behavior, but that's a training issue.
To Zero the SUSAT, above the range adjustment dial (the 300m to 800m) at the rear, theres a nut which is raised a bit which works in conjuction with the issued Combination tool to raise and lower the SUSAT separately from the range dial....for windage, you undo the two locking nuts on either side, then use a flat head or combi tool (combination tool) to turn the bolts left or right to move the SUSAT, if you turn one of the bolts you have to do the same with the opposite side to correctly move the SUSAT.
I always liked the SUSAT. Used it for many years on the SA80 and it's a nice sight. Once you had the thing zeroed, there really was no need to touch it apart from dialling in the range, which required no tools, and the tools needed for zeroing were part of the rifle's cleaning tool anyway. The version we had on the SLR, mentioned in the video, was called the SUIT (pronounced "suet") which stands for "Sight Unit, Individual, Trilux". Interestingly, the LAW94 (also called LAW80) anti-tank weapon actually had a scope rail on it so you could take the SUSAT off the rifle and mount it on the 94, then swap it back after you'd fired it. I don't know anyone who ever did, but it was there. I remember in the very early '90s being at a massive shooting competition at Bisley and chatting to a bunch of guys from Oman who had Steyr AUG rifles with SUSATs mounted on them.
The Soviets copied the old SUIT and issued it on their DMR's, still in use today with Russian forces. Only used the LAW 80 a couple of times, for the life of me can't remember what sight it had, LAW 66 and Charlie G no probs though.
@Forgotten Weapons Can you do a video just about sight pictures, how they came to be and what worked and what caused problems for the users? Is there any book or other source only on sight pictures?
The British SUIT is fascinating because it's upside down - the sight post points down from the top. It looked odd but it was a clever idea, because the sight post didn't obscure the target. EDIT: And Ian points it out too, coo.
Just as a fun note, im from Spain and my father used and practiced with the older model while on the Army, the CETME-C, and he tells me the gun was heavy, but VERY reliable.
I don't really know about these guns, or about the spanish army in general but in the one that is suposed to be for the marines have the abreviation 'ET' that means Ejército de Tierra (ground army). Maybe is just a part kit and the lower reciever came from a gun that was for the army. I just wanted to pointed out, great video as usual Ian.
Fokinn hell, Another magnificient video. i hope you'll never stop until you've made *all modern firearme of history* or all firearms at all. Im pretty sure you're gonna make it oneday, as you're putting out more videos than firearms a day. :D You're Precious Ian, in the litteral sense of the term, you gotta continue, I believe in you brother :DDD
I wonder if the SUSAT inspired the ACOG at all? There is some visual resemblance. Maybe that is coincidental. The ACOG has a diff reticle, internal adjustments, and backup fiberoptic for illumination. Trijicon's AccuPoint line of sporting scopes hse an illuminated post reticle. Always nice to learn more about the CETME. It seems to be an underappreciated design. Great video as always. Thank you
Funny story about welding. I am an automation engineer (PLC's, drives, programmable devices for industrial automation), so it was not unusual at my job in a steel mill to be adding electrical boxes, sensors, etc. around the mill. These were usually mounted to unistrut that was welded to whatever steel framework or building I-beam that was handy. But it sucked to have to get the mechanics out to weld up unistrut for me, and i figured i would do it myself one day. "How hard could it be?" i thought to myself, i am excellent at soldering, and at the end of the day they are both sticking metal together with heat. Boy, was i wrong. Anyway, got everything set up, clamped everything in place, fired up the welder, got all my PPE on, and struck my arc. The welds were goddamn ugly, but you could stand on that unistrut once i was done. The funny part of the story is that i had a nice triangle of BAD (some 2nd degree) sunburn on my chest, because the top of the shirt and the welding mask did not overlap, so the UV from the arc was blasting that area at fairly close range. The mechanics had a good laugh at my expense, and after that i usually just got someone else to do my welding, and concentrated on what i was good at! LOL!
I remember the sight for the L1A1, it was known as the SUIT sight, I believe that stood for Sight Unit Infantry Trilux, before they re-designated it as the SUSAT for the L85.
Interesting. If I understand this correctly, the 1.4 mil zero screw in the top of the elevation turret adjusts in linear increments, as per ‘normal’. The elevation turret itself, however, does not appear to adjust in linear increments, given that the distances between the numbers (100 m. increments) are equal. Note how the distances between the numbers on the range adjustment dial on the SUSAT increase towards the 8.
Other problem with SUSAT, when you have 100+ together, they have to be stored in a radiation proof container, with all nessacary markings on. At this time all Britsh Army tent guys had to be luminous, to prevent trip hazard. In a feild situation, you covered them with dirt. No one told you how mind you.
@@nunyabidniz2868 my daughter has a rifle that needs a Monte Carlo style stock, but it's an odd-ball rifle, and would need to have one made custom. Instead, she has a leather cuff that straps in place, with a pocket that can take multiple thicknesses of padding, allowing her to adjust the rifle to her exact fit. If I am allowed to shoot the rifle, I need to remove the cuff; easy enough to do. Put the cuff back on, a couple shots to check placement, and she's back in business.
I used to work as a TIG/MIG welder, welding stainless/mild steel for 12 years and have seen a lot worse from others Ian so don't fret about the welds, at least they haven't cracked!
Are optics always better than iron sights? Is it really a good idea to make rifles with integrated optics (like Steyr aug, g36 or even the EM2) instead of using iron sights and a scope mounting system?
Optics will always be better iron sights if they are well designed. The AUG integrated sight is actually simple and well designed, but of course has its limits since it cannot be changed out without changing the entire receiver. Integrated sights can be effective but general concession is that they are impractical.
@@arielgarcia5065 Usually when they are ordered to outfit every rifle in the military, governments and militaries tend to take the cheapest ones. Good optics are expensive, expensive isn't practical for a large army.
I wonder why they did not make a bracket that clamped onto the SUSAT base but mounted an Enosa scope; so the rifles were the same. It might be impossible to incorporate a rear sight into such a bracket, but is that a serious loss?
Ian, don´t worry about bad welding, all in all in Spanish speakers countrys we usualy joke about CETME means "Cada Esquina Tiene Mierda Escondida". (every corner has hiden shit). In relation that is a good design but extremely cuts in budget became a very good rifle in a mountain of troubles. Ian, no te preocupes por la mala soldadura, después de todo, en los paises hispanoparlantes solemos bromear que CETME significa "Cada Esquina tiene mierda escondida". En relación a que es un buen diseño pero cortes extremos de presupuesto transformaron un muy buen rifle en una montaña de problemas.
I am serious when I say this.....the SA 80 had a good sight the SUSAT and a handy sling....the problem was the garbage in the middle it was attached to.
Well said. Lol. And i heard somewhere that the Brits dismantled and sold off the rifle factory after the production run. Really smart. Do away with your small arms manufacturing ability in an island nation. Which is why they had to contract with HK to un-f*** the SA-80. HK started with new, better barrels, redesigned and replaced a number of small parts, etc. I guess they are a lot better now, but still not what they should be due to inherent design issues (after all, HK did not replace receivers).
@@chrissheppard5068 Ha ha ha. Sometimes i think they might have. To go from the L1A1 to the SA80...... lousy idea. Of course "British firearms expert" is an oxymoron. The last one (maybe the only one since H&H) was Ian Hogg, and he has been gone for awhile. RIP
@@chrissheppard5068 -Sad but true. Not much different over here. We were never supposed to have professional politicians. Thomas Jefferson is spinning in his grave
Advantage of the SUSAT mount is that it is far easier to make a sealed scope that *stays* sealed. But harder to keep zeroed, as any bump to the scope in transit will transfer to the mount. On an unrelated note, we should be demanding low-light illuminators that use carbon-14 as the beta emitter instead of tritium, so we'd never have to replace the !@#$@# thing in our lifetime, and it would still be relatively safe, as these things go...
I will say my ancestor on my father's grandmother's side was a gun that had best and he came up with an invention I'm surprised England never even bothered to use and he basically took the Henry Martini rifle from his time from service in the war with the Zulu and gave it the back reloading and magazine mechanism of the Spencer carbine, if he had survived the Zulu War the Enfield rifle bolt action may have taken longer to have been adopted. Makes you think. Just wish that my grandmother did not pawn the rifle off to a exotic fire arms collector.
This gun with screws reminds me of my younger days,when we used to play with bb chinese pistols and guns wich had a lot of screws ,and wich malfunctoned alot ,and we always neded a screwdrivers to remove the screws,in order to repair them Sorry for my bad english,its not my naitve
Ian: Allow me to correct you, you are (likely) not a terrible welder, to me it looks like you stacked the odds against you by choosing that welding method, that welder and so on!
I am in Tucson, i spend 8 hours a day doing Aluminum TIG for skylight manufacturing... Let me know if you need Steel/Stainless/Aluminum small work done.
Yet again. A commercial before the video, and one commercial interrupting the video. This the fifth Forgotten Weapons video in the last four days with commercials. TH-cam is run by gutless thieves.
The SUSAT scope on the Marcolmar LV is not actually correct! The mount on the SUSAT is a standard L85A1 mount for the SA80 series of rifles. The correct mount is a Mueller mount (front elevation adjustment knob) built and designed commercially in the UK. I have some of the correct SUSAT's and mount, they are a better mount in my opinion!
So did HMG actually send out any of these parts kits? I have checked their website infrequently for the last 4 years, and they never seemed to have the parts kits in stock.
![TEEDEE TADA - DIAMOND NARAKORN X LEGO LYKN [Special Dance Performance]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QgtZedFeumA/mqdefault.jpg)
Funny anecdote from a friend of mine who got issued a LV during his military service back in the 90's. The day they received the rifles a NCO warned "This guy (The SUSAT sight) costs 250k pesetas (Our currency back in the day, a conscript salary back then was 1500 pesetas per month), you fuck it, you pay it". The solution ? Covering the whole sight with bubble wrap and duct tape while on manouvers.
@@nirfz Man... I wish we had that kind of quality controls here. G36's are, by far, superior to the Cetme L, but they still have some flaws. The main complaint I've heard of is the folding stock's tendency to crack with heavy use
@@fellllippe
Like the Swiss Stgw.90
Grinder and paint makes you the welder you ain’t!
soooooooooooooooooo true xD
100% I took a metals class in high-school. One of the projects was a welding project where you had to make a box that can hold water. In typical amateur fashion I didn't have a consistent bead & had high & low patches. It wasn't extreme but it was 100% obvious so my teacher told me to fill it with water & it didn't leak but out of curiosity he had me take it to the grinder (probably to test how well the weld held) & so I did, it looked a lot better then we tested it again & it passed but we couldn't tell if there was a tinny pin hole or if there was water dripping off the sides. I think I got a 75 or 80 on that project
Gott gebe das es klebe 😁😁☝️
I remember being at a welding class, the teacher literally showing "how it is done", flawless stuff. I thought to myself, "well, this can't be that hard to do". Obviously, after my first try I was thinking "well, shiiiit".
Until it falls off.
New You Tube channel coming soon called "Forgotten Welding!"
Nice, but... the Armada CETMEs had 'FN' ('Fuerza Naval' = Naval Force) before the serial number instead 'ET' ('Ejército de Tierra' = Land Army); and yes the LVs had their own detachable rear sights with two side screws kinda like the SUSAT, they were mainly used (at least in my Tercio, el Tercio Norte) for storage. It was mounted quite forward on that block, while most the SUSATs were stored by their own in the 'pañol' ('pañol' = the weapons/ammo room); the SUSATs were mounted on that rail quite backwards and were provided with several weights that mount forward on that rail, on my company we had 3 LVs with the SUSAT and the weights permanently and it (the SUSAT) was covered with a kind of spongy cover, i think it was made out of neoprene.
Were you Spanish Legion?
@@jizzwizard4077 Nope, he says he was part of the Tercio Norte. That's Spanish Marines, of course under the overall command of the Armada (Navy). The Spanish Legion is part of the Ejercito de Tierra (Army)
For reference, the Legion has four Tercios, 1st to 4th, named (in sequence), "Gran Capitán", "Duque de Alba", "Don Juan de Austria" and "Alejandro Farnesio".
@@jizzwizard4077 Spanish Royal Marine Infantry.
@@ramjb yes... Real Cuerpo de Infanteria de Mariana....I'm a bit sick about reading .Spanish Marines,. Spain was the first country to develop this kind of corp( or maybe task force should be more accurate )in 1537. Basically, we were the first country to develop an Amphibious force... By the way, I used the LV for a while in the mid 90's when I was part of the Tercio de la Armada ( BDI) in San Fernando, with the susat scope.The scope wasn't bad, but the CETME, was a piece of crap. I really missed the old Chopo (Cetme C ) at that time
@@cuarentudineresistencia542 The poor SUSAT, a scope ahead of its time but put on two terrible rifles.
All the welding I've never done has been amazing.
*Laughs in pipe welding*
I'm a bad welder too, but great at grinding
The worst welders are the greatest grinders on the planet!.... A grinder and paint makes me the welder I ain't
@@reallife3338 This is usually what someone who doesn't weld for a living would say. That said, feathering tacks and grinding out wagontracks before fill or cover passes is one thing, and Ian's welding might be, well, something else entirely. But you definitely can not be a welder without owning a grinder. At least not one that passes any tests or delivers actually safe and structurally reliable results.
Is it too much too ask to be good at both?
A grinder and paint make me the welder I ain't!
My ex brother-in-law is the Boiler Maker, I just run the grinder when we do hoe projects because I can't weld worth a damn. It doesn't bother me, I'm an electrician by trade.
Just picturing Spanish soldiers on a windy day fumbling with screwdrivers now
no bueno
When no longer use that
We use g36 hk rifles
Pretty much all if our guns are Germán since 1936
@@Eluderatnight yes
@@Eluderatnight yeah , for that some cetme prototypes were near the same (sometimes) to the stg 44
Rodrigo AAWesterhout 45*
What CETME apart from the other gun you ask, I'm special Gun Jesus built me.
john morgan I was looking for this comment. Take my like
Hold your hands up and away off the keyboard, this is the pun police!
Those are the high quality CETME L versions, still in use by the Guardia Civil. Thank you Ian for sharing this!
But the weapons of the Guardia Civil are the awfull ones...
CETME: Cada Esquina Tiene Mierda Escondida. XD
Greetings from Spain, here we don't use high Quality materials for those rifles.
@@Pokesus You are wrong. The CETME C was great and there were two kind of CETME L series: the awful ones, for the militia, and the good ones, for the professional soldiers and the GC. The GC still retains the CETME LV because it's great.
@@joaquinandreu8530 Uh. You must be the first guy ever who says the professional soldiers got "the good ones". I've heard true horror stories about the reliability (or lack thereof) of their CETME Ls coming from guys both in the Army and Spanish Marines.
The GC did get good ones. But that's because they got the first batches of the rifle, which were well built using proper materials, springs, good manufacturing and quality control. Then Those Who Make Decisions (which in Spain means...well you know what it means) decided to cheapskate on materials and build quality, and the whole rest of the series (issued to all branches who were intended to get the rifle, meaning Army too) was utter shit.
The base design was very solid and good, the manufacturing and materials were crap. Only reliable CETME Ls were the initial batch - and those are the ones still in comission today.
Nothing of that applies to the Chopo (the CETME C). That one was as tough and reliable as a normal G3 would be, because they also were properly built. But the L, out of the mentioned first batches, was truly a piece of shit.
@@ramjb same happened with the AMELI, and, if I remember correctly, also with some batches of the LAG-40, presenting minor reliability issues with grenades that weren't built by Santa Bárbara Sistemas
@@ramjb Just as a fun note, im from Spain and my father used and practiced with the older model while on the Army, the CETME-C, and he tells me the gun was heavy, but VERY reliable.
Four years since those CETME build videos, time flies.
This takes me back lol. I used to fix SUSATS for the army years ago.
Don't feel so bad about the welds. Some of those HK prototypes had similar ones.
The ENOSA seems to be more user friendly (at least when it comes to guestimating ranges with all the marks for the scope) than the SUSAT.
My understanding is that SUSAT wasn't really intended for a designated marksman role as it was a general issue piece of kit. In that context you couple argue the large reticule makes sense as better suited to snap shooting and better target identification than raw precision shooting. Does make you wonder why the Spanish adopted it for that role though - robust and maybe cheap?
@@zoiders Maybe so. But were the two put in front of me and I given the choice, I'd take the Enosa. Build quality is not trumped by usability at least in my opinion. Both were nice options for their time, though.
The main issues with the SUSAT are poor eye relief, weight and adjusting the windage can be a pain.
@@zoiders Both have a bdc compensated dial. "very positive" clicks mean nothing unless you are shooting twilight at 300yd, and like you said neither are DMR optics. i will admit, however, that the extra field of view is a major benefit on a fighting optic. But the ultra short eye relief which can hinder positional shooting and an atrocious reticle that takes up 10% of that extra field of view (sadly in the single most important part of the sight picture) detract from that greatly. Also very important to note that the enosa setup here has full length backup sights for adverse conditions. I respect that you really like the susat, however I still respectfully disagree with your conclusuons. I'd still take the enosa.
@@zoiders It is okay for us to disagree. You are comfortable with the Susat and confidence/trust in your equipment is almost as important as the equipment itself. My opinion is just that, an opinion. If I had to chose between EITHER of them and the trijicon 1-4 currently on my rifle, it would be a no brainer. I've always been a sucker for lightweight, simple, no frills optics on a light rifle. having not used an Enosa or Susat, it is merely conjecture for me.
It's 102 F° in South Spain & no wind, screwdriver fumbling isn't needed.
Not all of Spain is the south
@@andresmartinezramos7513 Pray for Ferrol
@@enriquerodriguez2688 F
@Graf von LosinjI don't think so, we lost Western Sahara in 1975.
For a special day when standing at Tarifa beach :D
Uh-oh. I just realized that Ian has started dipping into his own stash...
We're down to reserves, fellas.
He's been doing that for a month or two already
This green-ish color looks so good on the rifles.
The look like plastic army men toy guns
They got stolen from my Ultra-Sized, little, army men
@@jameslopez9661 you beat me by like 30 seconds you crook
I concur, as a hunter I personally love the OD Green Cerakote color so much so I even had my old waterfowling shotgun my Beretta Silver Mallard completely redone in OD Green as well as my Pork Sword .300blk bolt action pistol made in that color as well. It’s an absolutely beautifully functional color that’s camouflage all in itself.
@@mattandrews8528 If your pork sword is that colour I think you should go see a doctor.
Funny thing about SUSAT. All my family that have served in HM armed forces loved the SUSAT . Especially over red dot .
I've always wondered why it has such a large mount - it looks as if it was supposed to fit on something else, and needed an adapter, but it has the same mount on the SA80.
Teacher: What are you laughing about?
My Mind: Spanish soldiers fumbling with screwdrivers
Me out loud : uhh umm Guns in uh school
Me reading this: 🤦♂️
The SUSAT is something to shout about because although the L85A1 was far, far from even aspiring to perfect the optic gave every front line soldier a 3x power scope greatly improving individual accuracy which has been built on ever since.
4x scope, but yes increased the accuracy hugely over the SLR (even with the iron sight the SA80 did though), so much so the APWT was made harder.
The SUIT sight's top-down post was designed that way so that it uncovered the target under recoil, allowing you to witness the target effect/ fall of shot. It was a bit weird to get used to, but highly effective for its purpose. With the move to 5.56mm in a heavy rifle with less recoil and shorter intended engagement ranges, a bottom-up post was sufficient.
I always appreciate new content from Mr. Ian.Thanks again!
Those adjustment nuts on the side of the susat where a complete pain always working loose & the emergency battle sight front post was like aiming with a mars bar! But when it worked properly & the zero didn't wonder it wasn't too bad to shoot with.
Thank you for your channel, I find you professional, humble and very informative.
Thank you Ian for the hours of entertainment.
Some American company needs to come out with a reproduction of the Ameli LMG for sale
I whish that happens someday
It is basically a 5.56 mg3
With a quick change barrel handle
@@noelmoreno5879 not at all. More like a MG45, in terms of mechanism and working systems
@@noelmoreno5879 actually, NO. MG42 is roller-locked with short-stroke moving barrel, while Ameli is roller-delayed blowback
Wondering more than a bit at the decision to permanently afix the sight or mounting blocks. The G3 style claw mount seems to offer greater flexibility and utility.
We see the same mindset today in AR builds that have no provision for irons.
@@KeterMalkuth I'm thinking more from an armorer and logistics point of view. Multiple supply streams, and being locked in to a single, or set of, optics. It limits your future options, too.
I have a claw mount, and have had no issues with zero retention; the trick is to not be mounting and dismounting you optics as a habitual thing.
When you dismount the optics, yes, you *will* need to check your zero. But that's kinda normal. I'll grant that the claw mount does encourage that behavior, but that's a training issue.
To Zero the SUSAT, above the range adjustment dial (the 300m to 800m) at the rear, theres a nut which is raised a bit which works in conjuction with the issued Combination tool to raise and lower the SUSAT separately from the range dial....for windage, you undo the two locking nuts on either side, then use a flat head or combi tool (combination tool) to turn the bolts left or right to move the SUSAT, if you turn one of the bolts you have to do the same with the opposite side to correctly move the SUSAT.
MR_DANNYMAN hence why you always supervised troops on the point or some idiot wouldn’t counter tighten and you’d waste time and ammo.
I always liked the SUSAT. Used it for many years on the SA80 and it's a nice sight. Once you had the thing zeroed, there really was no need to touch it apart from dialling in the range, which required no tools, and the tools needed for zeroing were part of the rifle's cleaning tool anyway. The version we had on the SLR, mentioned in the video, was called the SUIT (pronounced "suet") which stands for "Sight Unit, Individual, Trilux". Interestingly, the LAW94 (also called LAW80) anti-tank weapon actually had a scope rail on it so you could take the SUSAT off the rifle and mount it on the 94, then swap it back after you'd fired it. I don't know anyone who ever did, but it was there.
I remember in the very early '90s being at a massive shooting competition at Bisley and chatting to a bunch of guys from Oman who had Steyr AUG rifles with SUSATs mounted on them.
The Soviets copied the old SUIT and issued it on their DMR's, still in use today with Russian forces.
Only used the LAW 80 a couple of times, for the life of me can't remember what sight it had, LAW 66 and Charlie G no probs though.
@Forgotten Weapons
Can you do a video just about sight pictures, how they came to be and what worked and what caused problems for the users? Is there any book or other source only on sight pictures?
Agreed, its bizarrely hard to find images of them.
The British SUIT is fascinating because it's upside down - the sight post points down from the top. It looked odd but it was a clever idea, because the sight post didn't obscure the target. EDIT: And Ian points it out too, coo.
Just as a fun note, im from Spain and my father used and practiced with the older model while on the Army, the CETME-C, and he tells me the gun was heavy, but VERY reliable.
Need to get both of these over to 9-Hole Reviews for practical accuracy testing!
Just a note. When zeroing the SUSAT you loosen the two nuts at the front, then adjust the screw and do the nuts back up.
Seeing your welding skills just made my day
I don't really know about these guns, or about the spanish army in general but in the one that is suposed to be for the marines have the abreviation 'ET' that means Ejército de Tierra (ground army). Maybe is just a part kit and the lower reciever came from a gun that was for the army. I just wanted to pointed out, great video as usual Ian.
Fokinn hell, Another magnificient video. i hope you'll never stop until you've made *all modern firearme of history* or all firearms at all. Im pretty sure you're gonna make it oneday, as you're putting out more videos than firearms a day. :D You're Precious Ian, in the litteral sense of the term, you gotta continue, I believe in you brother :DDD
Thank you . Ian .
I wonder if the SUSAT inspired the ACOG at all? There is some visual resemblance. Maybe that is coincidental. The ACOG has a diff reticle, internal adjustments, and backup fiberoptic for illumination. Trijicon's AccuPoint line of sporting scopes hse an illuminated post reticle. Always nice to learn more about the CETME. It seems to be an underappreciated design. Great video as always. Thank you
I was waiting for this video. Good day from Spain 🖐️👍😀
Funny story about welding. I am an automation engineer (PLC's, drives, programmable devices for industrial automation), so it was not unusual at my job in a steel mill to be adding electrical boxes, sensors, etc. around the mill. These were usually mounted to unistrut that was welded to whatever steel framework or building I-beam that was handy.
But it sucked to have to get the mechanics out to weld up unistrut for me, and i figured i would do it myself one day. "How hard could it be?" i thought to myself, i am excellent at soldering, and at the end of the day they are both sticking metal together with heat. Boy, was i wrong.
Anyway, got everything set up, clamped everything in place, fired up the welder, got all my PPE on, and struck my arc. The welds were goddamn ugly, but you could stand on that unistrut once i was done.
The funny part of the story is that i had a nice triangle of BAD (some 2nd degree) sunburn on my chest, because the top of the shirt and the welding mask did not overlap, so the UV from the arc was blasting that area at fairly close range. The mechanics had a good laugh at my expense, and after that i usually just got someone else to do my welding, and concentrated on what i was good at! LOL!
Guess there's a reason why you're not also called Weld Jesus :-)
I remember the sight for the L1A1, it was known as the SUIT sight, I believe that stood for Sight Unit Infantry Trilux, before they re-designated it as the SUSAT for the L85.
The SUIT sight was basically the SUSAT but upside down and a few different things as well.
Kraken Burger, shouldn’t that be the other way around, the SUSAT is basically a SUIT sight turned upside down since the SUIT sight came first?
There was also a SUIT mount for the Jimpy.
These are awesome looking firearms .. Love their styleand color
The CETME L that the spanish marines received for trials had a better reputation than what the army ended up having.
6:45 Forgot to mention that bolt on top the range dial is for elevation adjustment
Interesting. If I understand this correctly, the 1.4 mil zero screw in the top of the elevation turret adjusts in linear increments, as per ‘normal’. The elevation turret itself, however, does not appear to adjust in linear increments, given that the distances between the numbers (100 m. increments) are equal. Note how the distances between the numbers on the range adjustment dial on the SUSAT increase towards the 8.
I like the Enosa mount with it GEW - Good Enough Welding.
Other problem with SUSAT, when you have 100+ together, they have to be stored in a radiation proof container, with all nessacary markings on. At this time all Britsh Army tent guys had to be luminous, to prevent trip hazard. In a feild situation, you covered them with dirt. No one told you how mind you.
Spend 2 hours zeroing the susat then breathe on it wrong and back to square 1
@@laxityazathoth1423 Sounds optomistic:-)
@@zoiders Having worked at a place that stored SUSAT I can assure you it's true.
@@zoiders I beg to differ.
@@zoiders exaggeration for humourous effect?!
I know it's kinda "Sporterising" but have you thought about making a cheek riser and have it mounted using the pin storage holes on the stock
Easier to strap on a cheek pad. No need to muck up the rifle; works fine.
No need, just look through the scope and shoot it’s not rocket science.
Interesting idea. Strap on cheek pads that incorporate a spare pocket can be had tho', so probably easier & more practical to use the COTS solution...
@@nunyabidniz2868 my daughter has a rifle that needs a Monte Carlo style stock, but it's an odd-ball rifle, and would need to have one made custom. Instead, she has a leather cuff that straps in place, with a pocket that can take multiple thicknesses of padding, allowing her to adjust the rifle to her exact fit.
If I am allowed to shoot the rifle, I need to remove the cuff; easy enough to do.
Put the cuff back on, a couple shots to check placement, and she's back in business.
I used to work as a TIG/MIG welder, welding stainless/mild steel for 12 years and have seen a lot worse from others Ian so don't fret about the welds, at least they haven't cracked!
Oooo nice! The CETME L is such a cool rifle. :D
I have the MCM L and LC...next will be the LV. Great guns BTW. These will be collectable in the near future when the they are gone.
give us this day our daily gun jesus so glad i have my hk 91 all others fall short in my opion
Just ordered my CETME LV/S. Such a sexy rifle.
1200 meters with 4X and 5.56, I always love seeing Militaries optimism
a friend of mine reported the broken emergency battle sight on the susat he was issued to the armourer, he was told not to get into emergency battles
Awesome vid as always. Was the FAL designed after the CETME?
Are optics always better than iron sights? Is it really a good idea to make rifles with integrated optics (like Steyr aug, g36 or even the EM2) instead of using iron sights and a scope mounting system?
Optics will always be better iron sights if they are well designed. The AUG integrated sight is actually simple and well designed, but of course has its limits since it cannot be changed out without changing the entire receiver. Integrated sights can be effective but general concession is that they are impractical.
@@hellcatdave1 why are they impractical? Difficult to change and upgrade maybe over time maybe?
@@arielgarcia5065 Usually when they are ordered to outfit every rifle in the military, governments and militaries tend to take the cheapest ones. Good optics are expensive, expensive isn't practical for a large army.
@@Suompel Your weapon system was built by the lowest bidder.
@@shawnr771 all the equipment your issued was built by the lowest bidder
Those things look like toys. Like for those lil green green plastic army men. Love it!!
3:33 Gun Jesus goes METAL! \m/
I wish you had archival footage of the weapons in use edited into all of your videos
I wonder why they did not make a bracket that clamped onto the SUSAT base but mounted an Enosa scope; so the rifles were the same.
It might be impossible to incorporate a rear sight into such a bracket, but is that a serious loss?
Ian, don´t worry about bad welding, all in all in Spanish speakers countrys we usualy joke about CETME means "Cada Esquina Tiene Mierda Escondida". (every corner has hiden shit). In relation that is a good design but extremely cuts in budget became a very good rifle in a mountain of troubles. Ian, no te preocupes por la mala soldadura, después de todo, en los paises hispanoparlantes solemos bromear que CETME significa "Cada Esquina tiene mierda escondida". En relación a que es un buen diseño pero cortes extremos de presupuesto transformaron un muy buen rifle en una montaña de problemas.
I hope he does a video on the ameli someday, and a shooting video too
Nice rifles and scopes.
Holy height over bore batman!!!
Used both the Susat and Elcan, didnt realise how bad the SUSAT was till i used elcan
You made a little mistake, it's empresa, not empressa. I know it's a tiny error but I needed to mention it
Videos being uploaded at 4am isn't that great but also is my sleep schedule being so screwed up to be awake to watch it
Agreed
That's a rather unique location for the bolt release.
I wonder if it would somehow interfere with the rifle's zero everytime it is pressed.
2:46 those welds tho 😂😂
TH-cam better be giving you money now if im going to get ads on these videos!
Does CETME have a Build-A-Gun workshop, like Build-A-Bear?
@Forgotten Weapons
Put a Wolf Ultramatic on your list. Would be great to see it all explained and a takedown if you dare.
I am serious when I say this.....the SA 80 had a good sight the SUSAT and a handy sling....the problem was the garbage in the middle it was attached to.
Well said. Lol. And i heard somewhere that the Brits dismantled and sold off the rifle factory after the production run. Really smart. Do away with your small arms manufacturing ability in an island nation. Which is why they had to contract with HK to un-f*** the SA-80. HK started with new, better barrels, redesigned and replaced a number of small parts, etc. I guess they are a lot better now, but still not what they should be due to inherent design issues (after all, HK did not replace receivers).
@@troy9477 Factory? I thought they bought it from a toy shop.
@@chrissheppard5068 Ha ha ha. Sometimes i think they might have. To go from the L1A1 to the SA80...... lousy idea. Of course "British firearms expert" is an oxymoron. The last one (maybe the only one since H&H) was Ian Hogg, and he has been gone for awhile. RIP
@@troy9477 We the Brits do have a fine history of fire arms experts we also have a fine history of scum bag politicians who sell us out.
@@chrissheppard5068 -Sad but true. Not much different over here. We were never supposed to have professional politicians. Thomas Jefferson is spinning in his grave
That's actually a cool looking rifle!
Button head set screws would provide a marginally better sight picture using the iron sights.
That height over bore though
That welding is called “sparrow shit” welding
Perhaps Gun Jesus can find a Welding Jesus for future projects?
I am betting Ian's personal collection could make at least 2 great videos
Advantage of the SUSAT mount is that it is far easier to make a sealed scope that *stays* sealed. But harder to keep zeroed, as any bump to the scope in transit will transfer to the mount. On an unrelated note, we should be demanding low-light illuminators that use carbon-14 as the beta emitter instead of tritium, so we'd never have to replace the !@#$@# thing in our lifetime, and it would still be relatively safe, as these things go...
Hey Ian, will we ever see video about TK vz.37 (ZB53 or BESA) that takes most space of your channels photo? Thanks.
I know Jesus Built My Hotrod, but it’s good to know that Gun Jesus built his Spanish rifle.
And now I'm back in high school.
I will say my ancestor on my father's grandmother's side was a gun that had best and he came up with an invention I'm surprised England never even bothered to use and he basically took the Henry Martini rifle from his time from service in the war with the Zulu and gave it the back reloading and magazine mechanism of the Spencer carbine, if he had survived the Zulu War the Enfield rifle bolt action may have taken longer to have been adopted.
Makes you think.
Just wish that my grandmother did not pawn the rifle off to a exotic fire arms collector.
This gun with screws reminds me of my younger days,when we used to play with bb chinese pistols and guns wich had a lot of screws ,and wich malfunctoned alot ,and we always neded a screwdrivers to remove the screws,in order to repair them
Sorry for my bad english,its not my naitve
Ian: Allow me to correct you, you are (likely) not a terrible welder, to me it looks like you stacked the odds against you by choosing that welding method, that welder and so on!
They’re nice ones
With that white background, I'm expecting a matrix like fade out to guns.....lots of guns..
Grinder and paint makes you the welder you ain't
The irony of Cetme L using British SUSAT
SA80 and CETME L terrible rifles equipped with excellent scope
SUSAT looks like a prehistoric ELCAN.
I am in Tucson, i spend 8 hours a day doing Aluminum TIG for skylight manufacturing... Let me know if you need Steel/Stainless/Aluminum small work done.
Yet again. A commercial before the video, and one commercial interrupting the video. This the fifth Forgotten Weapons video in the last four days with commercials.
TH-cam is run by gutless thieves.
Forgotten Weapons has never been demonetized; only InRange. TH-cam has ramped up their ads recently, which I only have partial control over.
The SUSAT scope on the Marcolmar LV is not actually correct! The mount on the SUSAT is a standard L85A1 mount for the SA80 series of rifles. The correct mount is a Mueller mount (front elevation adjustment knob) built and designed commercially in the UK. I have some of the correct SUSAT's and mount, they are a better mount in my opinion!
Actually, according to Marcolmar the early LV/S models did indeed use the SA80 mount and then the later version used the better Muehler mount.
Patroen should pay for Ian welding classes
So did HMG actually send out any of these parts kits? I have checked their website infrequently for the last 4 years, and they never seemed to have the parts kits in stock.
That weld could be filled out pretty easy
Do you have any advice when it comes to picking out CETMEs? I’ve always wanted to buy one but I’m worried about getting something that slam-fires.
Lock washers don’t work. Just torque it down. Precision washers would do a better job when properly torqued down
Who else wants to see a Gun Jesus gun collection video?
There is one of those already.
@@miguelencanarias It's old, though. Much has been acquired since then.
Already done.
SUSAT was also used on the L1A1
Was it? Thought that was the SUIT sight.
L2A2 Sight Unit Infantry Trilux.
Ian even mentions it was redesigned into the SUSAT.