Thranduil the Elvenking - Epic Character History (Updated)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ม.ค. 2018
- Thranduil was the Great Elven King in The Hobbit and contributed to the fall of the Dark Lord Sauron in Mirkwood. Thank you all so much for the support, I really hope you like this video. Let me know your thoughts about this Elven King in the comments! As always, a great thanks to the online artists whose visual works made this video possible! If you are one of the artists, please let me know and I will post your name and a link to your work in this description!
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Hey everyone, I hope you all enjoyed the video! Due to time restraints in real life, future updated videos may come as some normal Sunday videos (or extra videos on other days) as these take a lot of time to make. I hope that is alright with you all! Thanks for the support!
Men of the West I believe Thranduil put a price on his support for Bard. Nothing comes for free
Hello. Just wanted to thank you for all your hard work on these videos. Im a big fan of the movies but i was always disapointed that i never could read silmarilion. It was to heavy for me with all the names. These videos is exactly what i need. Big thanks and keep up the good work.
inside the mountains were gems that had belonged to his wife and he wanted them back...
i thought he lost his wife in the battle against the dragons in the northern (ice) realm. Dosn't he mention that to Oakenshield, revealing his burned face?
Thranduil didn't treat the dwarves "nicely" or anything close to that. His elves were very rough with Thorin:
"So to the cave they dragged Thorin - not too gently, for they did not love dwarves, and thought he was an enemy."
Thorin was separated from the company, and had been wandering on his own for days, chased by spiders, scared, hungry and thirsty. And Elvenking was so cruel that he interrogated him in that state. Poor Thorin gave good answers and was polite. And yet Elvenking still wanted more details and threw Thorin into the dungeons in that horrid state.
Later, Elvenking berates the rest of the dwarves for attacking the spiders and interrupting the elves' feasting. What a prick! He was actually mad at the dwarves for defending themselves.
Elvenking wasn't nice. He was a xenophobic asshole in the book.
He was also a greedy jerk:
"If the elf-king had a weakness it was for treasure, especially for silver and white gems; and though his hoard was rich, he was ever eager for more."
Elvenking only wanted Erebor treasure to satisfy his own greed. Prick.
It's worth noting that Tolkien retconned much of this depiction in his later works. Tranduil was nicer in Tolkein's other story and very wise. But as the nameless Elvenking in The Hobbit book, he's a jerk.
He's probably my favourite Elf, he managed to do so much without any magic or rings, he was just badass.
pretty sure he has some magic powers
One of the few things I liked from the Hobbit was Lee Pace potrayal of Thranduil. He was made for the role. That's why I hope WB or Amazon consider to make a movie of the War in the North. I want to see more of Thranduil.
I agree wholeheartedly. Lee Pace did a masterful job with bringing the complexities of Thranduil’s character to life. I was particularly impressed with how his facial expressions revealed Thranduil’s emotions without uttering a single word. Lee Pace was brilliant and I cannot imagine anyone else in the role. He was so real and genuine that you forgot that he was acting. He simply became Thranduil.
I wonder why PJ doesn't make 3 more movies about what happened in Dale, Mirkwood, and the rest of Middle Earth while the events of the Fellowship were going on. They could hire a new actor to play Celeborn and Lee Pace can return as Thranduil so we can see how they didn't just sit idly in their kingdoms letting others fight for them...
He really brings out the PTSD in an elven lord whose wife was killed in war and his taste of dragon fire, which he keep hidden through a magic of some kind. He seems very out of it and soft touch of Thranduil really isn't touched on in the movies like it is in the book. I'm pretty sure the victory was costly for elves and would add even more burden onto his ever growing emotional trauma.
Me too, Thranduil is nice
I think amazon will make the Fall of Arnor since fighting demons from the north is in the spotlight this period (GOT)
Thranduil is one of my favorite characters, wish tolkien went more into his and orophers history. All other elves seem to have dealings with each other but his clan of elves seem so secluded from all other elves..
Jeb Payne yeah... The woodland elves were always diiferent from others... They were all alone
Tolkien didn't even care about Thranduil enough to tell us his wife's name even though he's the father of one of the Nine Walkers. Hell, even Legolas is a conundrum in books.
@@lordthranduil9314 False. Woodland elves had the most dealing with outsiders. Thranduil had a trading relationship with Dale, Esgaroth and Erebor. He was also closely allied with Beornings, Dorwin, Woods-Men and likely even the eagles.
Lórien and Rivendell were way more secluded especially Lórien. Ring of Nienna and their lands made Lórien independent.
Thranduil, Glorfindel, Elrond, Eärendil, Galadriel, Círdan, Celeborn, Celebrían, Finwë, Thingol, Lúthien, Fëanor, Fingolfin, Finrod, Finarfin, Gil-galad, Orodreth, Oropher, Eöl, Celebrimbor, I don’t care which elf! They are all great in their own ways
@@MrDuck797 but house of feanor sure does likes to bring trouble
I love Thranduil, and even more when Lee Pace and his unstoppable eyebrows debuted in The Hobbit (even if his character was written and directed strangely imo)
Mentions unstoppable eyebrows
Hugo weaving: am I a joke to you?
Being my favourite character since I first read the book when I was 12 I made it my mission to look up everything Tolkien wrote about Thranduil. I thank you for doing this video, but the only thing I will mention is that nowhere in The Hobbit does Thranduil say he has a claim on the treasure. In all the dealings with the dwarves at Erebor he is either not there or leaves the talking to Bard - the one who seems most eager to get compensation from the dwarves and the treasure stolen from Dale.
In the narrative of the book, upon hearing of Smaug's death, Thranduil believes Thorin & co to be dead, but in the same section also notes that the news of Smaug's death is an ill wind that blows no one any good - a saying that in the context of what the narrative said before (the news of Smaug's death and the rich mountain now left unguarded, being carried all throughout ME including to the goblins) would imply he could consider it to be an omen for disaster. This would go a long way to explaining why he would take a large host armed for battle, rather than just setting out with empty wagons to carry all the treasure. Gandalf had described Erebor as an important strategic position for either side in the war. Thranduil would know this as well which is why he wouldn't want it to fall into the hands of the enemy. Given his later words to Bard about not wanting to start a war over gold I find it more likely that Thranduil's main objective in going to the mountain was to defend its strategic position - if he got some white gems out of it that was just a bonus. Incidentally, his realm once included the pinewoods that grew up the slopes of Erebor (before the arrival of Thrain from Moria) so you could say he was reclaiming/defending land that once belonged to his people). This is the main reason I really dislike the movies. They took all the best qualities of Thranduil in the book and gave them to other characters - his reluctance to start a war, his concern for Bilbo, even his resolve during the battle (he never ordered a retreat). Not to mention his kindness in helping the people of the Long Lake for no other reason than that they needed help. Instead they gave a Mary-Sue character (Tauriel) a finer, more noble personality and turned his into a cold, heartless one.
(Sorry if I seemed to rant, but the poor Elvenking got the worst portrayal in the movies, rather like Faramir in LOTR - the characters, I mean of course, not the actors!!!)
I agree that Thranduil’s character was depicted in the movies as somewhat cold and heartless, but actually, the writers’ intention was to give him a complex, conflicted personality. The movies do depict Thrandui’s wisdom and his goodness, but it seems to be overlooked by moviegoers because it is subtle. Thranduil does help the people of Laketown and Thranduil also explains that Thorin’s quest is unwise because he witnessed the ruin that Smaug would cause and he knew the dwarves could not destroy him. There were also a couple of key scenes that were filmed that explained aspects of Thranduil’s character. It was due to the heartbreak he had experienced, and unfortunately, these pivotal scenes that gave insights into his character were deleted by the studio execs. Unfortunately, Thranduil in the movie version was very misunderstood and his honorable qualities are overshadowed. He allows Bard to attempt to resolve the conflict with the dwarves in hopes of avoiding war and also mourns the sacrifice of his elven soldiers and simply wants to leave because he cannot justify such loss of immortal lives. In the end, his character is shown to be one who profoundly loves his people and his son and he seeks reconciliation. He recognizes the damage he has caused to his relationship with Legolas and is able to let him leave to pursue his future. His actions at the end of the movies reflect his true nobility, wisdom, courage and love. Thranduil is a character who, in the movie depiction, shows the most realization of his flaws and his desire to transform and overcome his inner conflicts. It is however, unfortunate that many viewers fail to recognize these good and moral qualities in Thranduil’s character because the final edited version eliminated key scenes which clearly explain his motivations.
Some of what you say is true, but unfortunately the small (almost microscopic) glimpses shown of any nobility of mind or heart (even in the deleted scenes) was quickly overshadowed by a cold ruthless act. When he arrives to help the people of Laketown he tells Bard that he did not come on their behalf but to reclaim something of his, thus stripping his good deed of the true altruistic kindness it held in the book when he went out of his way to help them. He orders his soldiers to kill anything in the mountain that moves. He basically threatens the life of another elf (Tauriel) - something which would have been heinous to him after having seen the kinslayings. He holds the dwarves in prison seemingly because they won't agree to return a piece of treasure to him after knocking back his offer of help - the scene is not very clear on his reason why he still has the Dwarves imprisoned (in the book it was because they refused to tell him who they were and what their intention was in his realm - an understandable reaction given the current situation in ME). He kills an unarmed enemy - a merciless execution - when we know he could've imprisoned the orc instead. In his words to Tauriel in the discussion about "lowly Silvan elves" he is made out to be an elitist instead of the Sindarin king Tolkien described as having willingly merged himself with the Silvan elves and their culture. And he never shows any reluctance to go to war with the dwarves. The writers may have wanted to give him a complex and conflicted personality but in doing so they destroyed the good king Tolkien created and put their own warped version in his place. His actions at the end do not do enough to undo the harm the writers did to his character - as can be seen by the large number of movie fans who will only ever see him as an arrogant, self-centred *insert whatever expletive comes to mind*. They could have written him as a grieving widower, tormented by memories of war without turning him into a grim, humourless elf who had no issue with starting a war over gold and needed a wizard to remind him he had a son to love.I'm glad you're able to see the good in him though!!!!! :) Spread the word and maybe one day his reputation and character will be fully restored in the fandom!
I do agree that the writers overshadowed the goodness of Thranduil’s character and instead emphasized the wild, ruthless side of his character. Obviously, Tolkien did not portray Thranduil this way at all and the writers changed his character and created a backstory to create dramatic tension. I also certainly agree with you that they did not do his character justice and left many moviegoers thinking he was a cold hearted, greedy king who only cared about himself. The writers should have done a better job of completing his backstory, and to be fair to them, I believe it was their intent to depict him as an inherently good, but emotionally flawed character. I also know that the studio execs wanted the focus to be on Legolas and Tauriel, Alfrid and fight scenes to the detriment of other character development They wanted to accentuate the unpredictable side of his nature, for instance, when he kills the orc. I can understand how you see that as an act of cruelty, but consider that his actions were likely an impulsive reaction to what the orc was saying and done out of an intense fear of the loss of his people and kingdom. I also agree that the writers made Thranduil out to be uncaring when he tells Bard that his thankfulness for aid is misplaced. Then, on the other hand, I think in the prologue, his decision to not help the dwarves was made, not because he was heartless, but because he knew in his wisdom that they could not win and there would be too much loss as a result. He doesn’t want to help Thorin for the same reason, although he does agree to help if he only gets the necklace back. Yes, he is willing to go to war in the film, but still gives Bard the opportunity to make peace with Thorin so that it can be avoided, if possible. And, his true desire to not fight is evident in his sadness over the loss of his soldiers and his decision to no longer fight. With respect to Tauriel, she is the one who draws her bow and threatens to kill him, so, I guess his reaction to break her bow and threaten her is understandable. After all, he is the king and she has disobeyed him more than once. I personally don’t believe he would have killed her, knowing how much Legolas loves her, but the writers obviously needed a way to set up the confrontation with Legolas. In the end, I think both of us can agree that the writers shortchanged Thranduil’s character. I think that the character arc that they did create made him the most fascinating character in the films, but they failed to properly flesh out his backstory so viewers were left with the wrong impression and ultimately, misunderstood him.
I absolutely agree with you on most of your points and I guess my points came across to you differently than I intended. I also, was very disappointed that the writers failed to fully develop his character arc and left viewers with the impression that he was a merciless king who cared about no one but himself. I was simply attempting to point out that there were some redeeming qualities that the writers hinted at. Unfortunately, they didn’t do justice to him and shortchanged the goodness that was an inherent part of Tolkien’s character. I really thought the conflicted personality the writers envisioned for his character made him fascinating because it made him muti-faceted and more emotionally realistic. There was so much more the writers could have easily done to incorporate the traits Tolkien depicted, such as his kindness and compassion. Instead, they over emphasized his coldness and ruthlessness. When you consider that Thranduil had no ring of power, it is logical that he would have had to be cunning, suspicious and a superb strategist in order to ensure the safety of his people, but the writers went overboard and made him appear callous and heartless, without ever explaining that this was not his true nature, but rather stemmed from his suffering due to immense heartbreak and loss.
For the benefit of those readers who may be unaware, the love triangle theme was never part of the original film. To be fair to the writers and Peter Jackson, they were forced to reshoot scenes to include that, and PJ, the actors and all the writers hated it. The studio execs insisted on it. Originally, the writers had written the Legolas-Tauriel relationship as simply platonic, a brother-sister bond. I think the scene where Thranduil comes off as elitist was added to facilitate the love triangle. It’s clear that the execs did a lot of meddling, and some actors said that the execs wanted the focus to be on the love triangle, fight scenes, Thorin and Alfrid, all at the expense of the development of the other character arcs. That being said, I still do not let the writers off the hook. They never fully explain Thranduil’s desire for the white gems or any of his motivations and they do his character a huge injustice by not portraying his inherent moral goodness, the compassionate side of his nature and his devotion to protecting his people. The white gems theme persists throughout all 3 films, so it is inexcusable not to fully explain it and bring it full circle for the viewers. It is so disheartening to me that the characterization of Thranduil in the movies fell so far short of what Tolkien wrote and what the writers ultimately said as to how they conceptualized his backstory. Philippa Boyens said in the Behind the Scenes footage that Thranduil was not evil and that his love was profound, yet sadly, so many moviegoers fail to recognize this in him. It is, ultimately, the fault of the filmmakers and I do spend time online correcting the misrepresentation of his character. That said, I do want to say that Lee Pace’s portrayal was brilliant, a masterful performance the likes of which is rarely seen. His ability to convey emotion through his body language, facial and eyes without ever uttering a word is so compelling and he should have definitely had more screen time. He certainly made Thranduil a character I will always love.
That's the trouble when film execs decide to Hollywoodise a good story - they make it an unholy, horrible mess. :( And yes, all that time wasted on the ridiculous antics of Alfrid and the love-triangle scenes really annoyed me. If they got rid of those it would've left time for my favourite scene from the book (Bilbo giving Thranduil the necklace and their conversation) plus a few more expanding on Thranduil's backstory that you mentioned. The biggest mistake they made in introducing the plot device of the gems was never fully going into the history behind them. And I could never quite figure out how Thranduil's wife could have ended up dying in Gundabad. Most of the battles there were between dwarves and orcs, and when Angmar was destroyed the Mirkwood elves weren't mentioned as being involved in the fight. As for the necklace, I can't see how it makes sense for the Erebor dwarves to be the ones to make it if it was for the Elvenqueen - she would've already been dead by the time they founded their new kingdom in the mountain. The timelines just don't work and I don't think it was a well thought out idea. I'm in the process of uploading a lengthy fanfic to try and give a more Tolkien timeline compliant reason as to how the necklace ended up in Erebor (along with attempting to restore Thranduil's character) - being my small way of defending him. The poor elf needs all the love he can get from his supporters!I definitely agree Lee Pace deserves top marks for his performance and should've got A LOT more screen time. Despite the horrible dialogue he was able to show glimpses of the Elvenking I've always loved in little silent moments - like his look of concern when Thorin's about to throw Bilbo over the wall. I just wish they'd written him to be the caring, loving father we know he really was to Legolas from their first scene together. Their last scene tried to make up for it, but fell far too short. They didn't even hug! :'(BTW - on here if you search for Lee Pace/Thranduil MV: Memories I'm sure you'll enjoy the video. The song and clips of Thranduil are brilliantly blended to create a loving tribute to his character. :)
Ah Thranduil, believe it or not, he's one of my most favorite Elven Kings. Though he was a bit of an Anti-Hero during the events of The Hobbit, I have a bit of a respect for him and his devotion to his Silvan Elves. I think why he thought he had a clam to Ereabor's wealth was because he was (before Smaugs coming) a great ally to the Throne and Thror. Anyway that's just me, loved this updated video Yoystan can't wait for the next one!!!!! :)
Luke Skywalker the 2nd the elves of mirkwood actually believed that the dwarves stole their treasure and therefore had a claim to it. He came to erabor not to assist the dwarves but to retrieve the jewels in the mountain.
patrickkane0524 Yeah good point I honestly wouldn't ether tbh :)
Besides, if it is true that Thranduil lived in Doriath when the kingdom was destroyed, it is completely understandable that he doesn't trust the dwarves ability to handle gems and greed .
Yoystan thranduils wife was killed at Mount Gundabad Legolas told Taurial in the ‘Battle of the Five Armies’
patrickkane0524 Well Thorin didn't want give Bard treasure under the threat of force and didn't want to give Thrandual anything because he had been his prisoner.
Thranduil has always been one of my favorite characters. We get a bit more on him in Unfinished Tales, but I would have liked considerably more. Especially when you recall that he was responsible for keeping his realm safe and triumphant with NO Ring of Power such as Elrond, Galadriel and Círdan (at first) possessed to help him out, the only Elf ruler to do so. And no help in the Battle under the Trees, either, as any possible allies were busy elsewhere. He did it all himself with his people and should get credit for it.
Great update. He was depicted as petty and cruel in the movies instead of strong, valiant, and wise like Elrond. I didn't care for their interpretation.
I can understand that viewpoint, but I actually like the movie depiction a bit as it sets him apart from Elrond and other elves. Not all elves are noble and valiant. And, while it takes him a while, Thranduil does seem to realize his faults and the consequences of his actions when he looks over the elves that were killed during the Battle of the Five Armies.
exactly, he's a sindar elf, his people may have been near a Vala for a while, but never went to Valinor like the Ñoldor, being in the presence of the light of the Valar made the Calaquendi have "better" catacterisstics.
dosen't the text say they were not as wise as the elves in Rivendell?
beorn refers to the nandorin elves as being less wise and more savage than the noldor of rivendell. not the sindar which were a minority
if Thranduil was born in the first age, which seems like it as he remembers doriath, he was in the presence of Melian the Maiar which made the Sindar of Doriath and Beleriand very wise, however in Middle Earth only Galadriel,Glorfindel and maybe a very small number of Noldor left where among the Calaquendi that came from Aman, most Noldor including Elrond where Moriquendi just like the Sindar and Nandor : Elves that did not see the light of the trees, Elu Thingol was the only Calaquendi of the Teleri that returned from Valinor as he was sent as an emissary to bring his people there
Thranduil probably said he had a claim because of the dwarves trespassing into his lands. Or what I think is more interesting is that maybe he was trying to get payback for what the dwarves did to king Thingol. Even past 2 ages I think the elf would still be bitter about this.
Kepano 808HI that’s the movies though, and it’s wildly uncanon. I’d find it quite logical though for Thranduil to want revenge against the dwarves as they basically wiped his home off the map previously. Killing his people and stealing their possessions.
Twinkie Master23 Of course, he was born in doriath!
The movies is sort of an alternate universe on the rough basics of the story
@@akamundi864 nope there's a deleted scene in the hobbit movie that the necklace bilbo gave him belong to his dead wife
I didn't say there wasn't..?
Great video! Thranduil was always my favorite character from the Hobbit because of his backstory, while he starts off as a antagonist, he gradually becomes and later proves himself to be an ally.
I think Thranduil sometimes gets short shift. He treats the dwarves until it is their behaviour that gets them thrown in the cells. Also He rules Mirkwood without an Elven ring. It is only through the force of his personality, determination and his warriors that he defends his realm. I really loved Lee Pace's Thranduil, such restrained power and passion, he was Thranduil. Thanks for the video please keep them coming!
I love these epic character histories
Your character study videos always bring back fond memories of my dad before sickness took its toll on him. He passed a little over a year ago now, and far too ill for many years before. Anyway, back when I was very young (over 30 years ago) he and I would read the Hobbit together and he'd read the LotR and an encyclopedia of sorts called The Tolkien Companion. and in fact taught me how to read by having me read the Hobbit back to him. We never did read the Silmarillion together, as his work life and my school life ate away at our free time. That may actually be my only real regret. Anyway, keep up the excellent work here. Thank you.
Dennis X sweet memory. Thanks for sharing it
You were blessed by a wonderful father: he read to you and gave you a love of books.
I'm glad you have such good memories of your father; thanks for sharing them.
Sweet memory Dennis. I plan to do the same with my kids. Could you share how old were you when you and your dad picked up the hobbit?
Beautiful imagery as always!! Lee pace is a rock star!!! And so he makes thranduil as such!!! Yes I heard the jewels of lasgaland were a made up part of the hobbit trilogy to deepen the character. Maybe he felt he was owed a part of the treasure for the dwarves escape from the woodland Halls. Or maybe he thought he should get a part of the treasure that was promised to the people of lake town for coming to their aid
I like the movie adaptation of The Hobbit, how it gave a bit more of back story for Thranduil's spite. But that aside, the Sindar were considered to be more temperamental and perilous than their Noldor cousins. I should think that attitude established by Elwe, Eru Thingol, would pass down among his people. Including Thranduil, his distant kin.
Thank you so much! Every one of your videos are a joy to watch and listen to. Many times, such as this video, you lighten my heart and make the day better.
Awesome video! It really makes my evening when I get home and see that you have, so for that, le hannon, mellon nin :) I never realized that Dol Guldur had been the castle of Oropher back in the day, that's super cool!
Very interesting and well done! Thank you for this info.
I was really excited to see this pop up in my feed, Thranduil is one of my favorite characters! Thanks a bunch!!
Outstanding video! Thranduil is definitely one of my favorite characters. Please keep making more!
I have to say I really enjoy these videos. Whenever they come up it makes my day, I get my lunch or dinner and I sit and enjoy it as any hobbit would. Thank you for your content from one Tolkien fan to another.
Thank you so much for your amazing lore videos, keep up the great work.
Mae Govannen Yoysten! According to Tolkien, (as written in The Hobbit) Thranduil had no actual claim on the treasure of Erebor, but he was fond of treasure, especially silver and white gems. Thorin was aware of this, and refused to cooperate with Thranduil due to fear that the Elven King would demand a large share of the treasure in exchange for letting the dwarves pass through his lands in Mirkwood.
Interesting! Thanks for letting me know friend!
So, he was a selfish bastard
TNT Tiger Dwarves > Elves.
I thought the white gems were just a thing in the movies used to point back to Thingol when he had the dwarves put a simaril into a necklace, but the dwarves lusted after the simaril and killed Thingol for it
TNT Tiger while in the movies he actually had a reason to act the way he did
I just wanted to say I really like how you put all the lessons in the end of your videos. It’s wholesome and should never stop. Keep making your videos my friend!
deep invoking and well scripted amazing video Yoystan
I adore this channel, and the effort and quality consistency that clearly go into each of your videos. Thank you very much Yoysten!
Thanks for your videos. It's a shame that Lord of the Rings has so few channels one can follow. Keep up the good work!
Beautifully written and described - thank you again
Soo glad I found your channel! Followed you on other platforms. Keep it up
Thanks for taking the time to update on one of my favorite elves ever! Seriously though, why does Thranduil always get such awesome fan art?! Not that I'm complaining... I really like his physical depiction in the Hobbit films, and seeing everyone's versions of that is so beautiful
Really amazing vid,I never reallly liked Thranduil as he was introduced in the book but by the end of the hobbit I really respected him, keep up the great work!
What a great video! Thank you😊
Thank you for the wonderful video
Thank you for sharing this information about King Thanduil love all your post especially King Thranduil and the elfin kingdoms ♥️
Just rewatched Hobbit. A great character. I think Thranduil was so eager to get those gems only because they belonged to his late wife, so as a memento of her. I read somewhere that there was a scene of Gendalf and Thranduil talking shedding light on all this was cut out
Excellent video joystan
You're wicked dude. Love your videos
Thank you, for the video, sir!
Wonderful video..loved it!
I’m a new subscriber to this channel, and I love these videos. I do want to say for Thranduil’s part for the treasure was kind of explained in a deleted scene in The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies. The white gems he spoke of was the necklace his wife wore. Now of course, the Peter Jackson films are stated to not be canon due to it being its own thing; however, I do like to see that Thranduil would’ve aided Bard for those gems so that he could remember his wife, blinding him from his true treasure being his son Legolas.
Wow, so there were Elves that actually stayed in Middle-earth after the War of the Ring. And here I thought they all sailed west to the undying lands. Another reason why I'm glad I subbed. Keep it up man, awesome vids!
Enjoying all the videos, and Thranduil is one of my favorite characters. Regarding motivations; I think Tolkien was adapting/incorporating the story of Thingol, who had given a Silmaril to the Dwarves to be set in a necklace. But the Silmaril corrupted the Dwarves, and when they finished the necklace, they didn't want to return it. Thingol slew those who had made and then kept the necklace, and was himself slain by the rest of the Dwarves, which led to the ongoing hostility between Dwarves and Elves. Then Jackson adapted this further (only in the extended edition, I think) to make it a necklace for Thranduil's wife, who is conspicuously absent, and I think most assume came to some tragic end.
*enjoying memorizing and relaxing video*
*gets called in the middle of video*
Hope your days going better than mine!! Awesome video as always ♡
I think the king elf is awesome and the movie didn't do him any justice aside from looking the part.
Great update:) Even tho he doesn’t have that big a role in the Hobbit I still like Thranduil, his exchange with Bilbo when he is shown the Arkenstone is one of my favorite parts. I think the simple answer as to why Thranduil wanted a piece of the treasure is greed, it was a mountain of gold and jewels after all lol. But with Tolkien in mind i see it as history repeating itself. In ages past the dwarves and elves made the Nauglemir together. The desire to process this great jewelry is what ultimately started the strife between the two races I believe. And so we have the same scenario happening again with Thranduil and Thorin. Keep up the great work ;)
Nice video !
Thranduil is one of favorite LOTR characters. This video was great!
great vid bro !!!
Awesome vid
Looking forward to your Hobbit the Desolation of Smaug Review!
Video suggestion how the she-elf should have been written for The Hobbit. Or even better how to write her out of it.
New to the channel I think these videos are great
My fave elf. Brilliant, thanks. A very interesting and complicated character that the movies does not do justice.
Great video, Cheers
This video is going to help me a lot for the fanfiction I have planned, thank you so much.
Also, I don't think that Thranduil had any claim to anything in that mountain, at least not following book canon. What I have always wondered is why we would bring Orcrist with him along with his own sword. To trade, perhaps? Otherwise, it seems a little pointless to me. To fight with it himself? I can't imagine that he would and there's no reference to either in The Hobbit.
Anyway, you're doing a great job. I really appreciate your channel.
Good Video :)
Can't wait for next video🤤
I love your video
Great video bro. I didn’t like him in the hobbit movies at first. Now I think he is one of the coolest characters. I can tell he has been through enough lol death evil peril and so on. Again, I love back stories on how characters become who they are. Thats kinda why I like the hobbit films more then the lord of the rings films. They are all great but I like seeing how things where, before the great story, you know. Anyways thanks for this video. Keep up the great work.
Thank you, great!
Yay Thranduil updated. I play Thranduil in a role-play Lotr Minecraft sever so this is good to know
not even subbed. these just come up in my recommendations. love this series
I love ur work so much passion... I have a question hope it's not too much. Can you make a lore about "thranduil scar" or a theory about Melkor return?
I see Thranduil seeking the treasure more out of spite for the Dwarves. Perhaps he viewed them as reckless and thought it would be dangerous for them to be controlling such wealth. Reading the Hobbit makes me wonder what sort of influence both Thranduil and Gloin had on their children.
Jacob Clark well it's understandable to have such approach to beings who are greedy pieces of crap that woke up a freaking Balrog due to their lust for MORE.
THANK YOU! Thranduil seems to be one of the most misunderstood characters in the The Lord of the Rings fandom, and the movies did him no justice either. Personally, I won't be surprised if he just wanted to piss the dwarves off... it has been a long time since I read The Hobbit but if I remember correctly (and I may not) his "claim" felt a bit half-hearted. With the kind of reputation he already had with them, it was almost like he was mocking those views. Then again, the Mirkwood elves are basically a besieged people heavily reliant on trade - it never hurts to have things to trade with, and in helping Laketown rebuild they may have used some of their own resources as well. The attempted profit-making could have been an economic tactic. *shrug*
Nice, could you do a lore episode on what the dwarves fron the hobit did during the war of the ring? Many thinks for your great vids
Hey. 5:25 I just wanted to say that in the Hobbit, idk if in the extended edition or not, Legolas talks abot his mother and the fact that she died in Gundabad. Greate videos as allways, keep up the good work
Awesome video! Just a guess that the elves like white gems because they awoke under the stars since there is a likeness. If I could suggest a future character study video to be Feanor? Thanks for the video Men of the West ! :)
Enjoyed
in the books Thranduil had no Claim at all to Erebor's Treasure, he pretty much just heard the Dragon died and took the opportunity to increase his treasure as he was mentioned in the book to be constantly increasing his treasure which was vast but not yet like the elves used to have in the first age, he met Bard in the way to the Mountain and lend his Help to the people of Laketown, after the battle of the five armies, Bard gave the Emeralds of the Necklace of Girion(his ancestor) to Thranduil as payment for the help the elves gave to the men of esgaroth
Your videos just get better and better, also, does it ever tell in middle earth books who actually took the gems of the elves that made the races enemies?
Could you do videos on Elrond and Elros
Please please do Haldir please. Your videos are awesome!
Hey Yoystan, great vid as always! I'm sure it's been brought up before, but I think you should start a Patreon! I've started doing those for my more niche channels, just a buck or two, but I'm sure plenty of others would feel the same way. I get if you don't want to monetize on something you really love doing just for the sake of doing, but still a nice way for us to show our appreciation of your time & effort! Anyway, just a thought & I can't wait for the next one!
Hi Micheal, thanks for the suggestion! I do think I want to open up a Patreon with extra content at some point this year! I'll let you all know when/if that happens. Thank you very much friend!
Very helpful
Can you do a video touching on the nazguls and their backstory? Great video
Can you do a video showcasing your top ten favorite Heroes of Middle Earth and why you like them? Then do a second part showcasing your top ten favorite Middle Earth Villains and why you like them?
Yes, I am always late to these things... but whatever. thank you for this. I have been watching these for awhile now and have always wondered about Thranduil's backstory. It's in the third Hobbit movie that Legolas says his mother was slain in an orc cave but nothing further. I hae often wondered what happened to Thranduil after the Hobbit was finished but haven't had time to sit and read. I know you do the theories on these, too, so I was hoping to find some Mirkwood theories. What if Legolas hadn't gone to Rivendale, or if after the LoTR, would Thranduil reconcile with him? How would Thranduil rule without an heir? Thank you again for these vids. I enjoy them.
I really like Tranduil especially the way Lee Pace portrays him in the movies and the storyline he has there.My oppinion on why he said he had a claim to the treasure is because Tolkien needed him to be there with his army so they could fight against the Orcs!It was all made that way so that all parties were where they should of been so that they would win the battle of the five armies,it was a stratigic choice from Tolkiens view.So he made him claim a part of the treasure that belonged to his people(I love that the movie gives a more sentimental view on the treasure as it belonged to his wife in their story).Anyway this is just my oppinion,keep up the good work!
Thranduil is definitely one of my favourite Tolkien characters! I just love the whole elves race, they are just so ethereal and they are definitely my favourite race. Also, the reason you probably could find anything on Thranduil’s wife is because she’s not mentioned by Tolkien (or not that I am aware of at least) in pretty much anything. She is great a big mystery and no one really knows what happened to her as nothing has ever been said.
Have you ever done a Melkor/Morgoth epic character history? If not, I would love to see it! He’s one of my favorite Villains ever (along with Sauron of course).
For some reason, i am feeling premiumness, elegance, finesse, swift and deadly power, just from his looks.
I was really hoping you would make a video on him! He mentions having fought some dragon(s) in one of the films (Hobbit series), any info on that?
"I have faced the great serpents of the north"
I would love to see an epic character history on Frodo!
Thanks for the video if you can find out information on what happened to his face that was scared that you seen the movie
I absolutely love Hurin and his brother Huor. It is widely believed that Hurin was the greatest warrior in all of the history of middle earth. His son Turin although cursed due to his fathers uprising against Melkor did amazing things and is one of my favorite stories in the silmarrilion
Hey yoystan I’m sure I’ve asked this before but I would really love if you made a video about the “afterlife” in lotr, cause I’m quite confused what happens when people die, and where do the orcs go? Thank you for making these amazing videos they teach me so much lol.
Aidan Rice The spirits of the Elves are bound within Arda until it's end, so upon their bodily death they are given a summons to the Halls of Mandos where their spirit resides for an undetermined length of time. Once the evils and grief of their lives have been redressed, and they are judged able to be returned to the living, they are rehoused within new bodies the same as their previous, and allowed back to Aman. Men are granted the Gift of Men, which means their spirits are not bound to the world. Upon their bodily death their spirits go to the Halls of Mandos for a brief period, after which they leave the confines of the world and join Eru. Their ultimate fate is unknown.
Orcs are a big unknown because their origin was never finalised. The Silmarillion states that they began as Elves who were corrupted into Orcs, but this was chosen by Christopher to fit the best narrative for the published book. JRRT had decided against this origin (it was outside of Morgoth's power to remove the immortality of the Elves, and Orcs were categorically mortal) but there were several considered. They could have originated from Orc-formed Maiar who begat orc offspring, beasts bred to mimic intellegence, corrupted Men (which was the later thought of Tolkien's to be the most probable). If they had originated from Elves Tolkien stated that their spirits would go to the Halls of Mandos and be held in prison there until the end of the world. If they had began as Maiar, he had stated that any offspring begotten from them would not have been permitted souls, and so like with the beast Orcs, wouldn't have an afterlife at all. Those few original Maia-orcs would've shared a similar fate to Sauron; upon death they would be reduced to impotence as shrunken spirits, yet still confined to the world. As corrupted Men they were seen not in origin evil, but still, those who did evil deeds in life were to be held indefinitely within Mandos, which I presume would be their fate. The Valar didn't have the authority to remove the Gift of Men though, so unless their imprisonment were ordained by Eru, it's possible their spirits would leave the world as Men's do, for whatever fate Eru has install.
I agree that Thranduils character was changed for the films but even when watching the movies, I never had the feeling that he was a bad king or a horrible person. Just that’d he’d been through and seen so much that he was very cautious and protective of his kingdom. Having said all that, it was very hard for me to seperate Lee Pace and his performance from Thranduils character. Lee was simply amazing and stunning and I loved every word, every move, every nuance that he made in them. To my mind, I wasn’t watching an actor play Thranduil, but I was seeing Thranduil himself.
More Videos Mellon More!!!
I was wondering if you could make a video or something on certain Characters Family Trees?!!!
Thanks again, Until the Next Video...Marion Baggins Out!!!
Thank you Marion, for your continued support, it means so much to me. I would love to make videos on that! I'd like to do one about Elrond's family tree especially. Thank you for the suggestion!
Your Welcome, that idea of mine has finally come out!!!
For Elrond Family Tree, it is *Very Important* for people not to get confused!!!
Cool and sad. I never new this about Dulguldor
Great video
In the movie,he did say :"I have faced the great sephent of the North ". Can you go more detail about it
Also could you make a video about war of the wraith, you mentioned it many times in your video
Thumps up
We all gotta agree that Thranduil is the best acted and casted elf in all of the films by a long mile...
Even better the second time!!!
I really love Thranduil's character. He is very complex, and there is just something about him and his history that just pulls you in. I do like how Peter Jackson portrayed him, and how he answered the question of who Thranduil's wife was and her role in Legolas's life, however brief. I especially love that Peter gave Thranduil a legitimate reason to want the jewels; they were his queen's. He does have compassion in the movie, and it is obvious at the end when he talks to Legolas. However, I would have liked those deleted scenes to have stayed in the final cut of the movie, it would have explained Thranduil's actions and personality better.
I'll echo that Thranders in the hobbit movies was one of the few bright spots. I also think the adaption they did to have the jewels of his wife in smaugs horde was a nice touch and helped motivate his claim. Reading the book though, I always assumed his claim was because some of smaugs horde was the elves since smaug would have been raiding all over the NE.
Thadnruil like all elf's had affection toward earth gems and materials. One can't forget the blunder with the Silmarils. And in the movie, there was the White Gems of Lasgalen based on Necklace of Girion.
Could you please do a video explaining the maps of middle earth over the ages
I know little on the books, but the extended version of the hobbit movie the gems were a gift from his wife that had died and that was why he wanted them back so badly
I have a question, is there any information from LOTR, The Hobbit, Silmarillion, or Unfinished Tales that discuss how long elves experience childhood? Especially since elves lived the longest out of all of the free races of Middle Earth (aside from Ents). I feel like we hear of the birth of elves rarely, and obviously, they didn't just "pop out of holes in the ground" as Gimli was joking about his own kin. It would also be cool to see similar information the Ents (my favorite race next to the dwarves) if any such information exists. Keep making epic videos!!
That is a great question! I've always wondered about that myself. I believe they experience childhood and then in their middle-ages their aging process just stops, but I will have to look into it more. Such videos would be awesome. Thanks for the support friend!
seems like elves as babies could already speak and dance, since they aged slower than men their childhood could be anywhere from 0 to 50 when their bodies reached their adult appearance.
Men of the West any thoughts on a similar question for ents?
DaVFlow1321 i read somewhere and I can’t remember where so it may not be true, that Elves are officially adults when they turn 100. Also for elves sex is very sacred as it always results in a child. So a big party is held before an elf has sex as it will result in a child, which in an immortal species is a very big event. The elves aren’t tied down the humans more taboo nature on sex and are a lot more open about it (as seen by the fact they throw big parties as celebration)
Weeeell you could call them "children" until they are about 50. Then puberty starts(yes, elves have a kind of puberty), which ends around a hundred. Then they've matured into "grown elves". I know this because elves usually get their second name(the so called "mother" name, because their mom gives it to them, as oppossed to the dad, who names the child after their birth) after they've matured and their personality has fully formed. This second name reflects either physical or personality traits. Sorry I'm suuuper tired right now, I don't think this went well. Hope you at least understand it
The only thing thranduil wanted from erebor was the gems of lasgalen which were left for him after the death of his wife
Edit - thanks guys for making this a highlighted comment, much appreciated.
Dwarves stole from the elves
It is specifically stated in The Hobbit that Thorin's people were not responsible for those deeds. It's simple racism to hold all Dwarves responsible.
@@TJDious But not to want your shit back