as a turkish woman mustang has its issues as a film but it holds a special place in my heart. You are just a little girl and all of a sudden you realize the way men sees you is different then before. Maybe even the men in your family. Everybody is scared of your womenhood and sexuality so much that everything you do or choose becomes a problem. The way you dress, sit, eat, your friends, hobbies, hair...So you try to be invisible. Probably it is not like this for everyone but I know it is for me and many other women.
Something that is very clear is the difference of how the Male non family interactions are portrayed. Whilst in VS we see the boys as people who could care less about the Lisbon Sisters, only focusing on their fantasies, mustang shows that the Truck Driver really did care about the sisters, taking them to the bus, teaching lake how to drive, helping them escape, unlike the boys he really did help the sisters escape. Very interesting
(ugh it posted early cut off) while VS WAS about how men are treated differently, this is more about how patriarchy is enforced on young girls, which isn’t by random men but within ~the family ~ it’s the mother and father and uncles. People outside your family don’t live your values, and a lot of people aren’t going to agree with ultra conservativism, men included. Also want to point out it was a woman, her teacher, who saved her in the end. 😉
As a Turkish girl who was fortunate enough to grow up in a better environment than the Mustang sisters, I still love and understand this movie as it is truly a mirror to many women's experiences. In Turkey, women still suffer from the overpowering force of patriarchy no matter where they live and movies like these are a great medium for giving a voice to those who can't make their voices heard. Loved the video!!!
i get the idea but movie was really not representing turkey at all, it was overly strange... it was not portraying the authentic problems of growing up as a women in turkey but more like how an european would see the struggles of turkish women. characters or events were not ''real'' at all, nothing felt original because the people who made the movie don't have a clue about our culture or daily life clearly. as a foreigner i would enjoy this movie maybe, but it is not giving a voice any girl from turkey at all. a big example of masturbation on turkish feminism from an european point of view and nothing much.
@@chenille2811couldn't agree more. it's an aesthetically pleasing film made for western audiences. but we have yet to see a realistic film showing turkish woman without a) only seeing us as victims of religion/dim witted b) painting us modern so we are deemed worth saving.
This movie is also a representation of my life growing up in a Haitian household! The simple proximity with boys was, sometimes, seeing as problematic! Or having your period was treated as a religious experience. No one explained to me what it was. Everyone was so uncomfortable around me that they couldn’t even consider providing a proper explanation! My friend’s mom just gave me a Virgin Mary statue!!!! Mustang is so sad and frustrating. Lale’s character was incredibly courageous, but oh so touching!
As a Turkish girl I had a similar experience When I was 12 me and one of my male friends(he was my best friend) stole some candy, chips and chocolate from our kitchen cause we were children and we wanted to eat them all And since our parents didnt let us eat that much, we stole it. Then we went to my room and locked the door and ate all the junk food and we were laughing and talking Ofc our parents found out My mom and dad did not say anything or they did not think anything bad but my granny and the other elders of the village were terrified They said to me: you are a woman now cause you have your period, you cant lock yourself to a room with a boy even if he's your best friend. I felt so gross and so ashamed just because of their expressions. Thank god my parents are modern and nice My mom said: Being an adult and being a woman is all about experience and life, it is not about getting period, she is just child and more importantly my child so care your own business, dont talk about my child or with my child. So I'm gratefull
@@YunusMK-d5v ben 28 yasındayım, o 11 yasındaydı olay oldugunda, simdi kendisi evli ve bir tane bebeği var. Bir şeyi göremeyeceksiniz maalesef ama sizi teselli edecekse öyle hayal edebilirsiniz
@@YunusMK-d5volsa ne olmasa ne kıza tecacüz mü edicekti amk. mutfaktan cips çaldık diyo allah bilir en fazla 13 yaşlarındalardı. çocuğun çocuk olmasına müsaade edin artık. hem erkeklerin aşık olması neden kadınlara tehdit olarak görülüyor bunu da anlamış değilim, saldırgan köpek gibi davranmaları normal bir şey mi?
@@YunusMK-d5vne pişmanlığı ya? Her karşı cinsiyet arkadaşlık romantik olmak mı zorunda? Onu geçtim burada büyüklerin küçücük çocukların birbirine bişey yapmasını düşünmesi kadar iğrenç birşey yok.
cried deeply for both movies, it hurts deeper that those traditions in mustang r still expected of me and my sisters to do. literally to be "free" is to marry or to die. a mother gives up her daughter and lets a man control her instead, no questions asked, very disturbing and sad that its still a thing everywhere in the world
as an Arab i remember when I was 13 years old getting ready to attend a wedding, my mum had told me to look pretty so I can attract suitors to ask my hand in marriage when I graduate, I wasn’t sure if she was joking but my family in general has such out dated beliefs and misogynistic comments and actions that make it seem that a marriage is the best thing that can happen to a woman and if she’s out of that marriage age she’s usually sent off to marry a 50 year old divorcee with kids
@ent1cer Oh , I overlooked that , if she meant for real it's......... Otherwise lop my mom cracke the same jokes and so do I, I think since in a religious ideology dating us big no no , it's the halal version of there is cute boys at the mall dont forget to wear makeup But the cute boys ...... are the old aunties Anyways hope you gphad fun at that wedding ( out of the aunties gaze )
@@TheFalseShepphard I''m *pretty* sure it's not part of their culture. It's mostly very conservative people who act like that. I have traveled to Arab countries and attended many of their weddings, and it's not what your brainwashed mind thinks it is.
Mustang hit WAY harder than TVS for me but maybe it’s because i grew up similarly with neighbors being the flame and not social presence (or at least at first)
Heads up- menopause carries through with the theme of discomfort and pain. You're right; It's not talked about enough but it should be. None of these topics are talked about enough, because in most cultures these rights of passage are wrongly minimized as they are seen to be female issues only. Hopefully, the tide is slowly turning.
There is a couple that’s from our village and they’re also friends with my parents. They are super religious (like everyone in our village) and they have 2 sons. I always hear them ,especially the husband, saying how lucky they are to never have daughters and thanking Allah for that. It makes me sick to hear them say this so openly and how everyone around them just gets it. To them having daughters might be fun at first but that is until puberty. Then the girls are just liabilities. The mothers cry when their daughters don’t wanna wear the hijab. The entirety of my grandmothers’ generation got married at the age of 14 with men so much older than them. And my mother’s generation got pulled out of school after 5th grade. After that they go to Quran studies which they start wearing hijab and there’s that. My mother and aunts talk about how they wouldn’t wear the hijab if it weren’t for everyone doing so. But they also don’t take it off and force it onto their daughters because this happened for generations and they can’t just let go of their misogynistic and even violent traditions. Like when girls get married in the movie they’re wearing red belts which signifies virginity and it is tied by their brothers or fathers in a ceremony. This is still a very common tradition and I see it everytime I go to a wedding in my village.
In my country most Turkish girls wear a hijab. It's really shocking to go to Turkey and see that in the cities you rarely see a young woman or girl wearing one. Seems like some ultra religious people emigrated here 😅
@@dontknowdocare yea some of my relatives live in France and they all wear the hijab I guess it’s because they’ve never been subjected to Islamic extremism so they enjoy the religion. Can’t say the same thing about middle eastern women.
@@dontknowdocare blue collar migrants in your country were probably conservative back in the day and when they moved to a different country and couldnt mingle with the Christians, they held on tight to their existing beliefs while the Turkish people living in Turkey changed their beliefs and ways.
A little disclaimer to this comment: Yes people like you described exist. Yes there is a big amount of people who misunderstands Islam and ignorantly mistakes traditions with Islamic rules. Or doesn't want to live religiously but feels forced to do so. But just because this people exist, doesn't means all muslim are like that. There is majority of young girls like me who chooses to wear hijab on their own in Turkey. Because I was lucky enough to have an environment that'd cherish me as a muslim girl and teach me my religion correctly. I wish any person'd have that oppurtinity. Any good muslim would know that our Prophet Muhammed sallallahu aleyhi vesellem is the one who stopped the tradition of burrying young girls to the ground alive and had daughters himself, cherished them, respected them and ordered every muslim to do so. It's not the Islam that's flawed, it's the people who represented it badly on purpose or not on purpose.
this movie changed my life when it came out, i was so young and to see a film be about young girls like this altered my understanding of what story could be
Im from Turkey and my aunt had a similar situation like Mustang girls. Her dad died at a young age and my grandma moved in with her extremely strict and psycho brother. Auntie used to look older for her age and was super pretty. Just because the boys were following her around and stuff, the psycho married her off to a really old man when she was like 14-15. Ofc she couldnt go to school. Her husband wasnt that bad at least, he took care of her well but still.. horrible stuff
It's sickening how people claim they can't bear to see these literal children enduring trauma in front of a camera, yet they never help any girl or woman who needs support in real life. Bunch of hypocrites.
The Mustang made me cry for a week straight. It stayed with me for so long and it still tugs at my heart. "The last time we were all together' ugh they were girls
I understand you liking the story however this is kinda racist. Not because it talks about a real problem but because this feels like a French person talking about it rather than a Turkish one. No Turkish person especially no feminists likes this movie. As it feels like a "look at these sad orientals" rather than "we're people trying to make it in the world and deal with this issue"
another perspective from a turkish feminist... i can confidently say deniz erguvan knows more about and relates more to french culture 10x more than she does to turkish culture. this is not a village in turkey, its in france. these girls don't speak turkish, they speak like someone who has *heard* about virginity checks and arranged marriages and coudn't believe they still existed. look, obviously stuff like this happen in turkey, especially common in those regions, but there is no world where they happen This way. the way the story's been told is astoundingly "fake". the average age to lose virginity is at least 21 years and you're telling me two high-school girls who've been living in the black-sea region for years are not only sexually aware but also active?? you're telling me the aunt waited until the girls behaved inappropriately to put rules and teach the girls how to dress etc. ? you're telling me a girl would be able to buy shorts in that village and wear it in the balcony, somewhere people can see? my extended family is quite conservative and i can't even wear midi-skirts while i go to visit them in their conservative neighborhood, i wear either pants or long skirts. like i can't express how much *nothing* in this movie feels or even sounds authentic if you're familiar with the culture and the language. i think to highlight how much of a taboo sex is they oversexualized the girls but (to us at least) it backfired and every scene that was remotely close to being about sexuality looked extremely unrealistic and off-putting. someone already mentioned the dialogue sounding like it was translated and i agree 100% . i know it doesn't matter if you don't know turkish and thus don't realize the mistakes but i think this is a sign that the movie was made with the western audience in mind. and i kinda hate how she has nothing to say to the victims of these problems. she just puts the misery of turkish girls, polishes them to cater to the western gaze, making it unrelatable to said girls, and gains her money.
Aynen cok doğru , ama hani ege’de canakkale’de “modern- muhafazakar” bir ailede olabilir , karadeniz diye düşündürten şey ne onu da anlamadım ben izlerken direk çanakkale vibe i aldım. Benim annemlerde 5 kardeş Tekirdağlı resimlere falan baksan sütyen vs giymiyolarmış şortlu vs dolaşıyolar ama annem dışında tüm kız çocukları 17 yaşına gelmeden evlendirilmiş en buyuk teyzem o.ç. biriyle evlendiriliyor bir de adam şiddet ve alkol bağımlısı falan … sırf 14 yasında sevgilisi varmış köy de laf olmuş diye evlendiriliyor annem de okula aşırı bağlıymış vs vs
@@cansuStBenoit ben de böyle düşünüyorum ayrıca ebeveynleri öldüğü için eskiden hangi şartlarda yaşadıklarını bilemiyoruz. Çünkü filmde bahsedilmemiş. Bence kızların annesi kendi ailesinden uzakta ve daha açık fikirli şekilde yaşamış olabilir
@@cansuStBenoit yanlıs hatırlamıyorsam trabzonspor resimleri falan cok gostermislerdi bi de kucuk kız maca gitmeye calısıyordu falan ya bende direkt karadeniz canlandı, bide birisi kastamonu yazmıs bilemiyorum artık... ben cok o tarafları bilmiyorum ama oyledir toplumsal kurallar mahalleden mahalleye bile degisiyor sadece filmden benim anladım ailelerinin kızlara evde bile sort giydirmeyecek insanlar oldugu. teyzene de uzuldum bu arada umarım simdi iyidir
@@esrblgn tesekkurler trajik maalesef , gecen yil vefat etti serefsiz kocasi da 9 ay sonra vefat etti bakicisi olmadan yasayamadi cunku hic vicdan yapmis midir bilmiyorum, ama maaalesef teyzecigim bi gun yuzu gormedi. O adamdan bi ihtimal kurtulabilecigi bikac imkan cikmisti zamaninda ailenin baska fertlerinin onu o adamdan kurtarma cabasi, ama o korkusundan ve aliskanliktan adami terk edemedi.
Some of the scenes following the fallout from the fight in Mustang are really powerful and emotional like the chair protest or the appalling virginity tests…
I thought the scene where the sisters pretend to swim on a bed was really meaningful. They cannot have even the basic human experience, things like walking and swimming.
I'm from Turkey and I can't believe that I haven't heard of this movie, what the shit? I grew up in a relatively modern family and part of the country (I've lived in the capital for the most part of my life) but I'm not blind to the obvious atrocities that are going on in the more rural parts of this country or how some of my girl friends would be treated by their families. I mean I'm living in a country where being a widow, orphan or disabled female is literally dangerous. You "need" a male figure in your household to not be preyed upon, even a teenage son is more respected than an adult woman. Disgostang
@@MARKET_GARDNERI burada konuşulan konular tamamen kızların ve kadınların deneyimleri üzerine. Empatiden, anlayıştan yoksun oğlanları ilgilendiren bir mesele yok yani. işinize bakın
i've been planning to watch the virgin suicides for a very long time now and considered this a sign. so i "binged" both TVS and mustang before getting to watch your video
@@larae6885 oh, definitely mustang won me over. i think it was more effective at delievering its message and honestly just plain more enjoyable over all. and personally the main thing of tvs (being more about how a bunch of guys perceived these girls than about what the girls themselves experienced) is what made me like it less even though i get why that line of storytelling was chosen. but also after watching the vid i have an impression that film adaptation of tvs did the novel poorly. even a few lines from a novel helped me understand it much better. might give it a read later. as of what i think about it. great films, both. raw, explore feminity and its traumatic parts, the objectification. and to some extent the ways of fighting against other people trying to limit your life. sorry if what i typed is in garbled manner, english is not my first language 😅😅
As a feminist Turkish woman who grew up in Turkey, I find Mustang a very bad movie in so many ways. I was so excited about this movie, but it left so much to be desired. Turkey has a serious problem when it comes to women’s rights, that goes without saying. However, Mustang is not good at depicting the reality. When you know the real culture and facts, you can even notice small things. For instance, you can say the football league does not have play-offs, it is a points system. Or you get the urge to say “Oh yes, a public elementary school teacher can afford that old high ceiling palazzo apartment in that neighborhood of Istanbul, for sure.” These are small things, but even in general, it was clear that the movie was written and directed by “outsiders”. If you are a native Turkish speaker, the dialogue in the film will grate on your ears. Especially Lale’s narration. Everything sounds so unnatural and robotic, like Google Translate. It was clear that it was not written in the original language. Those “shit coloured dresses” that are supposed to represent so much… Never ever seen them in any part of the country, they look like costumes from a Jane Eyre or Wuthering Heights adaptation. This fact is also clear from the movie as not a single “aunt” in the village actually wears them. The wedding night and “virginity” check scenes were laughable. Not only that tradition died decades ago (my parents are in their 60s, was not a thing even when they were young), it would never be the in-laws knocking on the door like crazy people. If the intention is to showcase the conservative culture in rural parts of the country, how do they even reconcile that with the optics of in laws in a small village taking a bride with her wedding gown still on to a hospital in the middle of the night, while everyone can see and gossip about? They take all girls from the school. Home schooling is illegal in Turkey and K-12 schooling is mandatory and there are truancy laws. All other children continue to go to school, but these 5 sisters and no authority is alarmed? I’ve read somewhere before that Deniz Gamze Ergüven and her co-writer were attending Cannes’s workshops on up and coming filmmakers and were despondent on lack of funding for female filmmakers and women’s stories. Which are true. However, it looks like Ergüven (who grew up in France only visited Turkey in summers), heard some stories and decided to make a film combining all for “shock factor” with a lense aimed to draw foreigners/Westerners. Are there arranged marriages in Turkey? Yes, then let’s have all of them have arranged marriages (even the 14 year old! Which is rape by law). Are there people who are still fixated on virginity? Yes, let’s have the most bizarre wedding night/virginity check scene for shock factor. Is there familial sexual abuse in Turkey? Yes, then let’s have the uncle abuse not one but two of them back to back. Etc. It sounds like a hodge podge of all 3rd page news (in Turkey, murder/rape/crime etc news are traditionally on the 3rd page of newspapers, hence the term) compiled and offered back to back like a soap opera. It looks like a movie not made to challenge the existing sexist systems in Turkey and be revolutionary (not that an art work has to), but to create shock factor for Westerners to say “Wow, look how bad they have it there, we are so lucky” and to “appease” them. I don’t honestly also believe her that she was not influenced by Virgin Suicides, it is so clear as day. When I first saw Mustang, I didn’t know Virgin Suicides. When I later watched it, I kept thinking about all the ways Mustang was influenced by it. The thing most bothers me about the film(apart from the unbearable and translation-sounding dialogue and weird mish mash of old traditions included in a weird and incorrect manner) it is also not a feminist story. Girls (apart from the youngest, Lale, who sounds like a self-insert by the writers) are extremely passive, they lack personality and motives. It is about 5 sisters and somehow manages to fail at being a “sisterhood” story. The oldest gets married to her boyfriend and happily goes off, never to be seen again. Second one, Selma, was forced to an arranged marriage, we see her first night trauma and that’s it. If the point is that we see the story from Lale’s eyes, so miss them when they left home, then we should not even know the wedding night scene. Additionally, I don’t think people understand how often married people actually visit their own family in Turkey, especially if everyone is living in the same small village, like they should be together multiple times a week. The only time we see all sisters together is Ece’s funeral. Somehow the eldest two are not even their sister’s (4th one, Nur) wedding? Even as guests. Or why are not they helping the youngest two to escape? To me, it is a poorly made movie, whichever way you slice it, and should not be treated as this beacon of feminist cinema.
@@moriarty8161i lived in the worst parts of Turkey considered very conservative when I was younger and nothing like this happened I watched the country but there was nothing showing Turkish culture
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think a diplomat's daughter who grew up in France should be the one to make a movie about the struggles of being a woman in rural Turkey. As a Turkish woman, I'm somehow not the target audience of this movie. Pure orientalism.
I’m Turkish too, the setting, the culture etc is all Turkish…but the acting and writing is very French. I would like a Turkish woman to remake this movie honestly
@@denizlol149 Yes the whole thing feels incredibly foreign. You can’t even tell where this village is supposed to be. The dialogues sound translated. A movie like this should be made by someone who’s familiar with the country for the right reasons but instead we get a movie made by a French woman for a foreign audience.
@@areyouthereatall to be honest, most turkish movies seem foreign in some aspects (it's usually the dialogue) even if it is filmed by a complete local. That's probably because people who film do get an education at some point and the education consists of analyzing many foreign films. In that sense, it is true that cinema is beyond borders. Other aspect I'd like to point out is that what makes it Turkish, as I have been to the most parts of the country and I cannot talk of a unified culture that can be represented. We have many different types of conservatives, as we have many different types of open-mindedness. I don't know if it is the case in Europe or USA but to me Turkey feels like it had a very mixed culture to begin with. For instance, whenever we see a conservative family in a movie from USA, 90% of the time they live in suburbs and have blond hair. In Turkey, a conservative family can consist of women who wear headscarves, can have any color of hair (some conservatives are okay with hair dyeing only if it is blonde for some reason), they might have some specific types of piercings, and lately there are even tattooed conservatives. We have conservative communities in which women are not allowed to laugh audibly, or other conservative communities such as the black sea region where women can laugh hard as they can but still oppressed sexually in other means. So, what I really ask is, how Turkish and non-orientalistic a movie about Turkey can be? Do you have any good examples?
@@echorises "to be honest, most turkish movies seem foreign in some aspects (it's usually the dialogue) even if it is filmed by a complete local" Hmm actually no? This movie is made by a French woman and it shows
This movie really made me cry, us Muslim girls understand this movie. My mom was forced to marry my dad, she was 18 and he was 42, she met him on her wedding night, she nvr got to fall in love 😔
remember watching this film when it released, still one of my favorites of all time and i'm surprised it isn't brought up more in pop culture. thank you for giving it much deserved attention!!
I haven’t met a Turkish person who liked this film. It’s a French film made by people who never stepped a foot in Turkey. And i don’t mean that there are no patriarchial issues here in Turkey, the characters are not culturally relevant to Turkish girls and all that. It’s such an orientalist move and i can’t believe westerners are still falling for these type of things in 2024. Latest Nuri Bilge Ceylan film is more on point on women struggle than this one.
Your point was acknowledged in the video. See 27:19 to 28:07. That being said, for the record, the director herself was born in Turkey. She and her family moved to France shortly after her birth, but came back to Turkey around when she was nine years old for several years. Additionally, all of the five sisters were born in Turkey (and presumably the rest of the cast, admittedly I neglected to check) and the writers emphasized obtaining permission from their parents for certain scenes and opened themselves up to critique from the actresses themselves. And finally, the film was literally made in Turkey. You may have your critiques as it pertains to Turkish culture, but you shouldn’t downplay the creators’ exposure to Turkish culture. Regardless of whether it was an accurate depiction of Turkish girlhood, I still believe it is a powerful film on the perception of female child development into so-called womanhood.
I feel like when people come with this point it is because they feel like this movie is some kind of attack on Turkish culture, which is not the point. The film and movie which this is kinda based on is the virgin suicides which literally takes place in Michigan, America, so the idea that this is some twisted view that the west solely has on turkey just contradicts itself. The ongoing themes from both these films shows that misogyny and the pain og being a woman exists in all corners off the world, yet can look different. I think the movie itself also makes it clear that this is not the culture in all of turkey, hence why they want to escape to Istanbul.
@@ClareAmelno it is not. She makes it out to be like its because relogius people people did not like the movie as an atheist turkish girl i hate this movie because it is extremely orientalist. It disgusts me that a foreigner thinks they habe the right to make a movie about a culture they only know superficially. It is like men making movies about the womens perspective.
@@adgsjsliwiwjx3297the point is not the fact that women face misogny and terrible things happen to woman everywhere. There are a lot of turkish movies on this topic. The issue is the extremely orientalist air that any native turkish person can feel when they see this movie. Nothing in this movie is organic. Idk i think wapecially as a culture who had to deal with orientalism for centuries it is normal for natives to not like being caricaturized and turned into subhuman to make a story for the western audience, no?
I find it a tad ridiculous that the filmmaker claims she wasn’t inspired by Virgin Suicides after admitting to reading the book and watching the film. There’s too many similarities in content and style. It’s true that the story is different and her own, but that doesn’t not mean the influences aren’t inherently present. I found it disingenuous that she did not address the similarities.
I deleted my original comment because I thought the film maker had written this with a deep personal interest and connection to this type of life in Turkey by what she said after saying it wasn’t inspired by Virgin Suicides. I didn’t realize she was actually French and just visited Turkey multiple times throughout her childhood. Originally, I was playing devils advocate and admitting that she very likely did take a lot of inspiration from Virgin Suicides, but perhaps her experience actually was a lot like that and so there’s not actually as much inspiration being taken as it appears. But yeah… no.. After finding out more information, she was clearly extremely inspired by the film and the book. I’ve seen several comments girl Turkish people explaining how this movie feels distant and incorrect in so many ways as though it was created by a foreigner and not by someone who knows their culture deeply. Someone else pointed out that many of the scenes included concepts that have been outdated since before her grandparents got married and were taken to the extreme as well. She explained that the movie she created about Turkish culture really comes off as someone who visited occasionally and knew a little bit about some of the girls around town, but heard a lot of rumors and gossip so she decided to run with that information instead of facts. She also explained that there were many issues with language and phrases used that made it obvious this was not created by a native Turkish speaker or even by someone deeply familiar with the language and culture. So, after learning more and seeing that her comment about it being her lived experience isn’t quite true, I agree with you. She is massively downplaying the influence the Virgin Suicides had on her film.
Not just that, there is no way she wasn't. The reason there is no way she wasn't, is because mustang is complete fantasy in Turkish society. The type of people that would try to force their daughter to marry after they saw them talk to a boy. Is literally zero. The type of people that would get upset at their daughter for talking to a boy. Now those, those exist. Those are ultra conservatives. But see, those would also never allow their daughters to walk around in a bikini, to have a bikini and their daughters would 100% be covered with a headscarf and wearing very conservative clothes. The idea that these girls were all just dolled up, walking around in bikinis, sunbathing etc and everyone was ok with it. But talking to a boy and now they have to marry? That is not something that exists or happens in Turkey. The maker likely never met a conservative Turk in her life, she lives in a bubble and just wanted a movie that looked cool and "hit you in the feews" .. or outraged you. But the movie is COMPLETE fantasy. And the frustrating part is a lof of Turkish girls are commenting saying stuff like "yeah my grand parents once got upset at me for sneaking off with a boy" .. bro, that's not the same thing.
Even though these movies were made in two different parts of the world, they are beautifully portraying the difficulties, restrictions and social judgments that girls go through while growing up. It is even more beautiful that you have compared and analyzed these two movies so well. Thank you for turning these movies into videos with your different and beautiful point of view. Love from Turkey 🇹🇷💖
This was a random movie that I saw on cable when I was young and its story resonated with me so much, but I didn't remember the name, I can't believe I found it thanks to your channel! I'm going to start watching it again 😭❤
I developed breasts at 8 and got my period at 10 (in fifth grade) and I went the whole day not quite wanting to realize. you capture that really well here
I would love to see you tackle Lucile Hadžihalilović's film Innocence at some point, which parallels with the controversy around Mustang and the backlash towards the director. When Innocence was released people saw pedophilic content that wasn't there, and when it was shown to children there was more of an understanding and less hysteria than when it was screened for adults. It's a very interesting but mysterious film and framed as a fairy tale/coming of age story too. It fits right into this discussion.
What struck me the most are all of these images of little girls being free: running around, swimming and being unclothed around each other without anything terrible happening. And then I realized "Oh... it's because there are no men there."
it’s always the women talking about their own girlhood getting flamed…. 😭 Meanwhile actual male p*do monsters make like, literal child endangerment material and call it a film: 😶 Radio silence or “this is a masterpiece no further comment.”
5:18 that’s exactly how i found out i had a moustache, a ‘friend’ of mine asked why i had hair on my upper lip, and of course it was said loudly in front of a boy 🙄
About Menopause. There is also pain that comes along with it, since menopause signals nearing the end of menstrual cycle there may or may not be blood either way many women’s pains go away or multiply. During menopause some women say that they’d rather die due to the pain
I love this movie, when i made a point on how the two movies were similar i remember talking about how different they actually are, even though they deal with the sexualization of teenage girls they have many cultural differences. I have waited for a video like this especially by someone like you. I loved the video, thank you so much!
This is so triggering for me. I am seeing one of my friends do this to her own children. She’s bragged about not wanting them to have friends, putting cameras in their rooms, prohibiting them from sports such as gymnastics and cheerleading and they are literal babies. Her obsession with teaching them to “cover up” or to be irrational weary of ALL men including their own father really bothers me. Our society needs to recognize that your toxic attempt to carry out your control fetish under the guise of “protecting a girls innocence” is ironic. You don’t need to worry about the world stripping their innocence because you are doing it already.
Long time subscriber but very irregular watcher, but so far every video I've watched I went and watched the movie, LOVED IT (Miss Bala was so up my alley that I'm surprised I'd never come across it before!). This will be no exception, I'm SO excited to watch Mustang!
I feel like the Virgin Suicides is from a very distinct male gaze. The girls feel like a spectacle, some thing to look at and say "How sad". Mustang is much better in my opinion instead of romanticizing real issues it's really clear the story has real empathy for the characters. Instead of the girls feeling like stereotypes they feel like real people with real lives.
i dont really think that religion is the main issue here we have oppression of women in every religion not only islam i have seen the same kind of oppression happen to women of other cultures to it is a men problem but alas men find way to justify their behavior by calling it religion
@@Odumase i agree its religion i am myself an atheist because of it religion is just a creative way to justify abuse in this case but this kind of abuse happens in every religion if you go to other extremist it is not only a religion problem but also a men problem thats all i am saying
I grew up in a non-conservative family so i am lucky but I saw people and my friends go through same experience as shown in mustang. I live in Turkey. My experience being a girl and living in Turkey is exhausting. Nearly everyday we see femicide in news and there is more that people don't talk about. Women and little girls are being killed for not being "pure", "indecent" or simply because they exist. I don't see this movie as how western people see Turkey. Things like this is happening, happened and will be happen. Child abuse and child marriage is common in Turkey especially in rural areas.
Watching this video sends chills down my body. Here in Turkey, they have such a way of normalizing their conservative beliefs that everywhere I look in our culture I get sick.
i get so so obsessed with the movies you talk about! i desperately wish i could see your watchlist/watched list on letterboxd or something, you have really good taste and i got to watch a lot of new movies because of you!!
I decided at 1 am to watch this movie... oh my god i was crying by the end. So powerful. This was honestly better than the virgin suicides to me, it was more powerful to me and since it was centered around the girls and not observers of them. This was incredible.
Absolutely such a huge fan of you and your content!! You consistently make the best videos !! I’ve been watching since the beginning and I’m so glad to see you constantly growing!! Keep it up!!!❤️❤️❤️
I was reminiscing this film just a few days ago how impactful it was to me when I watched it many years ago. Thank you for choosing film. Time for a rewatch. This last scene where the little girl finally reaches her teacher's house made me bawl. 😢 P.S. You should do an analysis on Picnic at Hanging Rock, which may have inspired both these two stories. 💟
I love this movie! I saw an independent movie theater when it came out and then I feel like nobody talked about it after that. I’m so glad somebody is covering it
As a Turkish girl, I can understand non-Turkish people like this movie but I can not understand why many Turks love it? It is so bad and unauthentic that I needed subtitles (cause the movie didn't feel Turkish at all, like I am watching a poorly dubbed foreign movie)
I'm a big fan of your video essays and you inspire me with my own work. I'm only halfway through this one but felt compelled to ask if you could find a film that looks at older women. Menopause happens to us all and yet it is shrouded in mystery. I recently found out that women going through menopause are the largest group of women that try to take their own lives. And yet no-one talks about it. I'm planning to watch Woman Under the Influence soon, which stars Gena Rowlands and focuses on mental health so that might be a good one. Thanks for all your work.
I watched the movie just this year as a Turkish woman thinking that I will dislike it thoroughly but I liked the narration and story structure and I definitely understood why it resonated with so many western women. I now think Turkish media disregarded the movie unfairly and Turkish critics were too judgemental--and for what? Now, the time period in the movie doesn't fit the story realistically I must say. Sociologically, the story is unusual. I wouldn't expect that an *uppermiddle class family* (I recognize this from their home and the uncle's position in the village) *which doesn't seem to belong in hyper religious structures* (the older woman covered their heads traditionally and there was no aspect of extremely religious cults/sects (and we have a lot of them in Turkey)) *would marry their 14-year-old niece, especially in post-2013 Turkey* (we can recognize that because the story shows Gezi Parkı protest related stuff). It is not impossible, it just seems very unlikely because of social structures in Turkey. *Nonetheless* the story still manages to be relatable, because it is moving and I just couldn't stop myself rooting for the girls. It reflects how the society tries to control the activities and even the very emotions of little girls. It shows how something that seems very natural (playing and having fun as young girls) will disturb the patriarchal society and will be deemed as unnatural and wrong by them. I liked that the girls don't really comprehend the rules, they are trying to live in their own worlds. The disruption was not made by them, instead the people around them were disrupting their lives. It is a French movie though. I say it not only because of sociological misconstruction, but because of the style. The style reminded me not of Virgin Suicides but other French dramatic films (like Choir). And about the Western Gaze.... She might have written the script as such for the western gaze, she might have even changed it to be acknowledged and awarded by the Western institutions and media. I wouldn't be surprised tbh. But I also see the movie creates a focus of discussion among the Western women about their own experiences, too. Why would it be a bad thing? I don't feel like something is taken away from me.
How old are you I wonder? It’s true that we don’t talk about menopause enough. And I personally want to change that and know myself what is to come. Because as terrible as puberty can be, I think from what I’ve heard and can tell so far that menopause is worse in many ways. Especially since it is so “shameful” in societies eyes. Even more so than a girls puberty is. Since as you say we as women don’t even know much since it’s barely spoken of. Also, society puts our whole value in our fertility. So after menopause that, I’m sure, can feel like we have lost our womanhood. Plus all the pain and unwanted body changes that I’ve heard of from my gma and mom (who is dealing with this now). Idk, the obsession with young girls, and even by us, puberty etc is kinda annoying when we don’t also want to speak on what happens later in our lives (if we’re lucky enough to get there).
I seriously hate how our society and culture seem to only Fawn over Pre-Teen , Teenage and early 20 year old girls and women. Because that is when we are at our most confused and fragile states . We are impressionable and confused due to all the changes we are going through , and life lessons we are learning. It's almost as if they enjoy how weak and fragile we are in those states it seems sick a predatory
as saudi woman who is coverd from head to toe i have no word to say i think the girls in mustang are happier than me too i just feel so blue. life is meanless to me
yess one of my favorite movies!! i love hearing your takes on films and how you relate to them sm since they’re so similar to my experiences as a teen 🤍
You should watch “My Aunt is Here” it is a turkish movie based on a true story. It is about child brides. This movie is a core memory for a lot of turkish girls and I highly recommend it. I remember watching it on TV with my cousins as a kid and we cried rivers that night.
WAIT WHAT SHE HAD HPV?!!! Is that in the book ??? Sorry, it’s just so do I 😢 and um, yeah been having horrible unaliving thoughts since finding out. I wondered why not enough media/lit mention women’s struggle with it… so that’s really eye opening, wow!
Though I no longer identify quite as strongly with girlhood/womanhood (though I’m coming back around and embracing certain aspects of feminine identity) I remember watching Mustang back when it was released. It was my final year of high school and the summer going into it was really the moment I remember leaving childhood. I very much was a Cecilia, I was so strange to everyone who knew me, I wasn’t looked at as a sexual being for it, so it shocked me when it happened. I was walking our big, massive 100 lb plus dog one afternoon. I had decided to wear a summer dress, as it was one of those blistering days where the sweat just collects no matter what, and as I walked, the dog pulled me this way and that, and a breeze that felt good started up, but with that, a group of young men in their 20s in a muscle car drove past. They catcalled me and wolf whistled and I remember one yelling he would walk my dog good, with a tone that felt like I had swallowed something rotten. I had just turned 17. I felt embarrassed and alien, I had long hair at the time like the sisters in Mustang and I walked home with it hanging in curtains around my face, unable to look at the world. I cut it off my first day back at school, and some time later, when I started having feelings for my best friends, I watched Mustang and felt an instant connection with these girls, as much as I was traveling away from being a woman. So I was so excited to see someone talk about this movie that felt like it had captured lighting in a bottle for me, for that year of endings and saying goodbye to my innocence. Maybe I should watch TVS soon.
Sadly never heard of this movie, but I‘ll check it out! Btw I‘m obsessed with you whole channel, the topics, the informations and the editing 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Maybe you could make a video about „A Girl Walks Home Alone At Night“! ❤️
I remember seeing Mustang in the cinema some time after it came out. Generally, my thoughts on it were similiar to the ones expressed in this video. I felt, however, that it was less stylized, in love with pretty visuals, and more raw, emotionally-focused than the Virgins Suicides. It had more to say as well.
omg I LOVE LOVE LOVE mustang so many people do not speak about this movie enough I remember watching it on netflix when I was like 16/17 and was so obsessed with it, going to rewatch it
As a Turkish woman who grew up in a conservative town, I just watched the movie Mustang and honestly I am a bit dissapointed, we indeed have our struggles with sexism but Mustang does not portray it accurately. It looks like pure orientalism from a Turkish perspective :(
Im glad someones finally talking about this movie . I love it ❤ especially when i have all sisters for siblings and our relationship was exactly like this
I remember the exact moment my girlhood died. i was 9 and in turkey with my family and while i was laying in the sun with shorts that went to my knees, my father came to me and told me to change because i was "showing off" too much.
...Well, the algorithm was good to me today... Never knew or heard of this movie - little gem. Magnificent essey! Deniz Gamze Erguven; I should remember her name.
Omg I remember seeing this film years ago and have periodically thought about it ever since, but could never remember the name or find it on Google. I remember it was the first time I heard the Turkish language and really enjoyed the film overall. I might have to give this and The Virgin Suicides another watch now.
That a human thing not a girl thint Childhood is the most innocent carefree time of our life The Teenagehood and Adulthood is marqued by more and more problems and issue so we wish to go back to when we were cared for in every single aspect of our life
Never watched the movies, but the message resonates with me (and i will definitely watch them now). I remember the first day I was looked at sexually. An older boy pointed out that my breasts we're developing when i was in a tighter shirt I was wearing, I was only 10 and never thought of myself that way. Ever since then it was hard to shake the feeling of being seen as a "woman to be". It stuck in a way that made me want to never wear tighter clothes again.
as a turkish woman mustang has its issues as a film but it holds a special place in my heart. You are just a little girl and all of a sudden you realize the way men sees you is different then before. Maybe even the men in your family. Everybody is scared of your womenhood and sexuality so much that everything you do or choose becomes a problem. The way you dress, sit, eat, your friends, hobbies, hair...So you try to be invisible. Probably it is not like this for everyone but I know it is for me and many other women.
I can relate
why are they scared of our womenhood and sexuality
Puberty
@@ArmelSight In Turkey o lot of people are anti-feminist or hates lgbtq+, they think it's weird.... IDK
Ergenlik
Something that is very clear is the difference of how the Male non family interactions are portrayed. Whilst in VS we see the boys as people who could care less about the Lisbon Sisters, only focusing on their fantasies, mustang shows that the Truck Driver really did care about the sisters, taking them to the bus, teaching lake how to drive, helping them escape, unlike the boys he really did help the sisters escape. Very interesting
Honestly, that's a good point .
Love the idea not to hate men entirely. We do need the healthy masculine.
@@cramoisis3066 true
i think both films have different things to say.
(ugh it posted early cut off) while VS WAS about how men are treated differently, this is more about how patriarchy is enforced on young girls, which isn’t by random men but within ~the family ~ it’s the mother and father and uncles. People outside your family don’t live your values, and a lot of people aren’t going to agree with ultra conservativism, men included. Also want to point out it was a woman, her teacher, who saved her in the end. 😉
As a Turkish girl who was fortunate enough to grow up in a better environment than the Mustang sisters, I still love and understand this movie as it is truly a mirror to many women's experiences. In Turkey, women still suffer from the overpowering force of patriarchy no matter where they live and movies like these are a great medium for giving a voice to those who can't make their voices heard. Loved the video!!!
Same girlie,film içime oturdu resmen,kabus materyali
i get the idea but movie was really not representing turkey at all, it was overly strange... it was not portraying the authentic problems of growing up as a women in turkey but more like how an european would see the struggles of turkish women. characters or events were not ''real'' at all, nothing felt original because the people who made the movie don't have a clue about our culture or daily life clearly. as a foreigner i would enjoy this movie maybe, but it is not giving a voice any girl from turkey at all. a big example of masturbation on turkish feminism from an european point of view and nothing much.
@@chenille2811couldn't agree more. it's an aesthetically pleasing film made for western audiences. but we have yet to see a realistic film showing turkish woman without a) only seeing us as victims of religion/dim witted b) painting us modern so we are deemed worth saving.
@@pepehalpert9274işe yarar bir şey-pelin esmer fena değildi.
This movie is also a representation of my life growing up in a Haitian household! The simple proximity with boys was, sometimes, seeing as problematic! Or having your period was treated as a religious experience. No one explained to me what it was. Everyone was so uncomfortable around me that they couldn’t even consider providing a proper explanation! My friend’s mom just gave me a Virgin Mary statue!!!! Mustang is so sad and frustrating. Lale’s character was incredibly courageous, but oh so touching!
As a Turkish girl I had a similar experience When I was 12 me and one of my male friends(he was my best friend) stole some candy, chips and chocolate from our kitchen cause we were children and we wanted to eat them all And since our parents didnt let us eat that much, we stole it. Then we went to my room and locked the door and ate all the junk food and we were laughing and talking Ofc our parents found out My mom and dad did not say anything or they did not think anything bad but my granny and the other elders of the village were terrified They said to me: you are a woman now cause you have your period, you cant lock yourself to a room with a boy even if he's your best friend. I felt so gross and so ashamed just because of their expressions. Thank god my parents are modern and nice My mom said: Being an adult and being a woman is all about experience and life, it is not about getting period, she is just child and more importantly my child so care your own business, dont talk about my child or with my child. So I'm gratefull
En iyi arkadaşım dediği çocuğun kendisine aşık olduğunu anladığı zamanki pişmanlığını görmek isterdim.
@@YunusMK-d5v ben 28 yasındayım, o 11 yasındaydı olay oldugunda, simdi kendisi evli ve bir tane bebeği var. Bir şeyi göremeyeceksiniz maalesef ama sizi teselli edecekse öyle hayal edebilirsiniz
@@YunusMK-d5volsa ne olmasa ne kıza tecacüz mü edicekti amk. mutfaktan cips çaldık diyo allah bilir en fazla 13 yaşlarındalardı. çocuğun çocuk olmasına müsaade edin artık. hem erkeklerin aşık olması neden kadınlara tehdit olarak görülüyor bunu da anlamış değilim, saldırgan köpek gibi davranmaları normal bir şey mi?
@@YunusMK-d5vne pişmanlığı ya? Her karşı cinsiyet arkadaşlık romantik olmak mı zorunda?
Onu geçtim burada büyüklerin küçücük çocukların birbirine bişey yapmasını düşünmesi kadar iğrenç birşey yok.
@@mlpshadow3357 ne kadar saf ve temiz bakıyorsun hayata :)
cried deeply for both movies, it hurts deeper that those traditions in mustang r still expected of me and my sisters to do. literally to be "free" is to marry or to die. a mother gives up her daughter and lets a man control her instead, no questions asked, very disturbing and sad that its still a thing everywhere in the world
i wasn't rushing to watch the movie but after reading this i will watch the movie for you. stay strong 🩷
fr
as an Arab i remember when I was 13 years old getting ready to attend a wedding, my mum had told me to look pretty so I can attract suitors to ask my hand in marriage when I graduate, I wasn’t sure if she was joking but my family in general has such out dated beliefs and misogynistic comments and actions that make it seem that a marriage is the best thing that can happen to a woman and if she’s out of that marriage age she’s usually sent off to marry a 50 year old divorcee with kids
Tbr she ain't wrong social gathering are a hood way to arrange marriage if you are interested in one , it's not inherently bad
@@louyou6614 I was 13.
@ent1cer Oh , I overlooked that , if she meant for real it's.........
Otherwise lop my mom cracke the same jokes and so do I, I think since in a religious ideology dating us big no no , it's the halal version of there is cute boys at the mall dont forget to wear makeup
But the cute boys ...... are the old aunties
Anyways hope you gphad fun at that wedding ( out of the aunties gaze )
What a beautiful culture 🥰(!)
@@TheFalseShepphard I''m *pretty* sure it's not part of their culture. It's mostly very conservative people who act like that. I have traveled to Arab countries and attended many of their weddings, and it's not what your brainwashed mind thinks it is.
Mustang hit WAY harder than TVS for me but maybe it’s because i grew up similarly with neighbors being the flame and not social presence (or at least at first)
Heads up- menopause carries through with the theme of discomfort and pain. You're right; It's not talked about enough but it should be. None of these topics are talked about enough, because in most cultures these rights of passage are wrongly minimized as they are seen to be female issues only. Hopefully, the tide is slowly turning.
There is a couple that’s from our village and they’re also friends with my parents. They are super religious (like everyone in our village) and they have 2 sons. I always hear them ,especially the husband, saying how lucky they are to never have daughters and thanking Allah for that. It makes me sick to hear them say this so openly and how everyone around them just gets it. To them having daughters might be fun at first but that is until puberty. Then the girls are just liabilities. The mothers cry when their daughters don’t wanna wear the hijab. The entirety of my grandmothers’ generation got married at the age of 14 with men so much older than them. And my mother’s generation got pulled out of school after 5th grade. After that they go to Quran studies which they start wearing hijab and there’s that. My mother and aunts talk about how they wouldn’t wear the hijab if it weren’t for everyone doing so. But they also don’t take it off and force it onto their daughters because this happened for generations and they can’t just let go of their misogynistic and even violent traditions. Like when girls get married in the movie they’re wearing red belts which signifies virginity and it is tied by their brothers or fathers in a ceremony. This is still a very common tradition and I see it everytime I go to a wedding in my village.
In my country most Turkish girls wear a hijab. It's really shocking to go to Turkey and see that in the cities you rarely see a young woman or girl wearing one. Seems like some ultra religious people emigrated here 😅
@@dontknowdocarewhich country are you living in?
@@dontknowdocare yea some of my relatives live in France and they all wear the hijab I guess it’s because they’ve never been subjected to Islamic extremism so they enjoy the religion. Can’t say the same thing about middle eastern women.
@@dontknowdocare blue collar migrants in your country were probably conservative back in the day and when they moved to a different country and couldnt mingle with the Christians, they held on tight to their existing beliefs while the Turkish people living in Turkey changed their beliefs and ways.
A little disclaimer to this comment: Yes people like you described exist. Yes there is a big amount of people who misunderstands Islam and ignorantly mistakes traditions with Islamic rules. Or doesn't want to live religiously but feels forced to do so. But just because this people exist, doesn't means all muslim are like that. There is majority of young girls like me who chooses to wear hijab on their own in Turkey. Because I was lucky enough to have an environment that'd cherish me as a muslim girl and teach me my religion correctly. I wish any person'd have that oppurtinity. Any good muslim would know that our Prophet Muhammed sallallahu aleyhi vesellem is the one who stopped the tradition of burrying young girls to the ground alive and had daughters himself, cherished them, respected them and ordered every muslim to do so. It's not the Islam that's flawed, it's the people who represented it badly on purpose or not on purpose.
I’ve been WAITING for someone to talk about Mustang as well as the VS. you have no idea how much this video means to me 😭
Same ❤❤❤
Same i loved that movie so much but nobody was talking about
I discovered both of these films around the same time when I was 16. Now I am 23 and I still think about these movies a lot...
this movie changed my life when it came out, i was so young and to see a film be about young girls like this altered my understanding of what story could be
Im from Turkey and my aunt had a similar situation like Mustang girls. Her dad died at a young age and my grandma moved in with her extremely strict and psycho brother. Auntie used to look older for her age and was super pretty. Just because the boys were following her around and stuff, the psycho married her off to a really old man when she was like 14-15. Ofc she couldnt go to school. Her husband wasnt that bad at least, he took care of her well but still.. horrible stuff
It's sickening how people claim they can't bear to see these literal children enduring trauma in front of a camera, yet they never help any girl or woman who needs support in real life. Bunch of hypocrites.
Need power and money to do that.
The Mustang made me cry for a week straight. It stayed with me for so long and it still tugs at my heart. "The last time we were all together' ugh they were girls
I understand you liking the story however this is kinda racist. Not because it talks about a real problem but because this feels like a French person talking about it rather than a Turkish one. No Turkish person especially no feminists likes this movie. As it feels like a "look at these sad orientals" rather than "we're people trying to make it in the world and deal with this issue"
@@Chaosiscoolmaybeisnt racism based on race isn’t this xenophobic/turkophobic instead of racist
another perspective from a turkish feminist... i can confidently say deniz erguvan knows more about and relates more to french culture 10x more than she does to turkish culture. this is not a village in turkey, its in france. these girls don't speak turkish, they speak like someone who has *heard* about virginity checks and arranged marriages and coudn't believe they still existed. look, obviously stuff like this happen in turkey, especially common in those regions, but there is no world where they happen This way. the way the story's been told is astoundingly "fake". the average age to lose virginity is at least 21 years and you're telling me two high-school girls who've been living in the black-sea region for years are not only sexually aware but also active?? you're telling me the aunt waited until the girls behaved inappropriately to put rules and teach the girls how to dress etc. ? you're telling me a girl would be able to buy shorts in that village and wear it in the balcony, somewhere people can see? my extended family is quite conservative and i can't even wear midi-skirts while i go to visit them in their conservative neighborhood, i wear either pants or long skirts. like i can't express how much *nothing* in this movie feels or even sounds authentic if you're familiar with the culture and the language. i think to highlight how much of a taboo sex is they oversexualized the girls but (to us at least) it backfired and every scene that was remotely close to being about sexuality looked extremely unrealistic and off-putting. someone already mentioned the dialogue sounding like it was translated and i agree 100% . i know it doesn't matter if you don't know turkish and thus don't realize the mistakes but i think this is a sign that the movie was made with the western audience in mind. and i kinda hate how she has nothing to say to the victims of these problems. she just puts the misery of turkish girls, polishes them to cater to the western gaze, making it unrelatable to said girls, and gains her money.
Well said 👏👏👏
Aynen cok doğru , ama hani ege’de canakkale’de “modern- muhafazakar” bir ailede olabilir , karadeniz diye düşündürten şey ne onu da anlamadım ben izlerken direk çanakkale vibe i aldım. Benim annemlerde 5 kardeş Tekirdağlı resimlere falan baksan sütyen vs giymiyolarmış şortlu vs dolaşıyolar ama annem dışında tüm kız çocukları 17 yaşına gelmeden evlendirilmiş en buyuk teyzem o.ç. biriyle evlendiriliyor bir de adam şiddet ve alkol bağımlısı falan … sırf 14 yasında sevgilisi varmış köy de laf olmuş diye evlendiriliyor annem de okula aşırı bağlıymış vs vs
@@cansuStBenoit ben de böyle düşünüyorum ayrıca ebeveynleri öldüğü için eskiden hangi şartlarda yaşadıklarını bilemiyoruz. Çünkü filmde bahsedilmemiş. Bence kızların annesi kendi ailesinden uzakta ve daha açık fikirli şekilde yaşamış olabilir
@@cansuStBenoit yanlıs hatırlamıyorsam trabzonspor resimleri falan cok gostermislerdi bi de kucuk kız maca gitmeye calısıyordu falan ya bende direkt karadeniz canlandı, bide birisi kastamonu yazmıs bilemiyorum artık... ben cok o tarafları bilmiyorum ama oyledir toplumsal kurallar mahalleden mahalleye bile degisiyor sadece filmden benim anladım ailelerinin kızlara evde bile sort giydirmeyecek insanlar oldugu. teyzene de uzuldum bu arada umarım simdi iyidir
@@esrblgn tesekkurler trajik maalesef , gecen yil vefat etti serefsiz kocasi da 9 ay sonra vefat etti bakicisi olmadan yasayamadi cunku hic vicdan yapmis midir bilmiyorum, ama maaalesef teyzecigim bi gun yuzu gormedi. O adamdan bi ihtimal kurtulabilecigi bikac imkan cikmisti zamaninda ailenin baska fertlerinin onu o adamdan kurtarma cabasi, ama o korkusundan ve aliskanliktan adami terk edemedi.
Some of the scenes following the fallout from the fight in Mustang are really powerful and emotional like the chair protest or the appalling virginity tests…
I thought the scene where the sisters pretend to swim on a bed was really meaningful. They cannot have even the basic human experience, things like walking and swimming.
Also when Lale spits out the biscuits because she remembered her sister, I thought it was really crushing.
@@atlas4698 I definitely agree about those scenes ! The film is full of poignant details like these .
I'm from Turkey and I can't believe that I haven't heard of this movie, what the shit? I grew up in a relatively modern family and part of the country (I've lived in the capital for the most part of my life) but I'm not blind to the obvious atrocities that are going on in the more rural parts of this country or how some of my girl friends would be treated by their families. I mean I'm living in a country where being a widow, orphan or disabled female is literally dangerous. You "need" a male figure in your household to not be preyed upon, even a teenage son is more respected than an adult woman. Disgostang
Kanka emin misin, neden rastgele bir erkek çocuğu bir kadından daha çok saygı görsün…
@@MARKET_GARDNERI burada konuşulan konular tamamen kızların ve kadınların deneyimleri üzerine. Empatiden, anlayıştan yoksun oğlanları ilgilendiren bir mesele yok yani. işinize bakın
@@zephyr023 tmm
@@MARKET_GARDNERI oğlum yarrağın kesiliyo diye düğün yapılıyo amk kadın ise özel dönemine gelince utanç kaynağı oluyor. insanların gözünde
i've been planning to watch the virgin suicides for a very long time now and considered this a sign. so i "binged" both TVS and mustang before getting to watch your video
What did you think of the films? Which one do you prefer?
@@larae6885 oh, definitely mustang won me over. i think it was more effective at delievering its message and honestly just plain more enjoyable over all.
and personally the main thing of tvs (being more about how a bunch of guys perceived these girls than about what the girls themselves experienced) is what made me like it less even though i get why that line of storytelling was chosen.
but also after watching the vid i have an impression that film adaptation of tvs did the novel poorly. even a few lines from a novel helped me understand it much better. might give it a read later.
as of what i think about it. great films, both. raw, explore feminity and its traumatic parts, the objectification. and to some extent the ways of fighting against other people trying to limit your life.
sorry if what i typed is in garbled manner, english is not my first language 😅😅
As a feminist Turkish woman who grew up in Turkey, I find Mustang a very bad movie in so many ways. I was so excited about this movie, but it left so much to be desired.
Turkey has a serious problem when it comes to women’s rights, that goes without saying. However, Mustang is not good at depicting the reality.
When you know the real culture and facts, you can even notice small things. For instance, you can say the football league does not have play-offs, it is a points system. Or you get the urge to say “Oh yes, a public elementary school teacher can afford that old high ceiling palazzo apartment in that neighborhood of Istanbul, for sure.” These are small things, but even in general, it was clear that the movie was written and directed by “outsiders”. If you are a native Turkish speaker, the dialogue in the film will grate on your ears. Especially Lale’s narration. Everything sounds so unnatural and robotic, like Google Translate. It was clear that it was not written in the original language. Those “shit coloured dresses” that are supposed to represent so much… Never ever seen them in any part of the country, they look like costumes from a Jane Eyre or Wuthering Heights adaptation. This fact is also clear from the movie as not a single “aunt” in the village actually wears them. The wedding night and “virginity” check scenes were laughable. Not only that tradition died decades ago (my parents are in their 60s, was not a thing even when they were young), it would never be the in-laws knocking on the door like crazy people. If the intention is to showcase the conservative culture in rural parts of the country, how do they even reconcile that with the optics of in laws in a small village taking a bride with her wedding gown still on to a hospital in the middle of the night, while everyone can see and gossip about? They take all girls from the school. Home schooling is illegal in Turkey and K-12 schooling is mandatory and there are truancy laws. All other children continue to go to school, but these 5 sisters and no authority is alarmed?
I’ve read somewhere before that Deniz Gamze Ergüven and her co-writer were attending Cannes’s workshops on up and coming filmmakers and were despondent on lack of funding for female filmmakers and women’s stories. Which are true. However, it looks like Ergüven (who grew up in France only visited Turkey in summers), heard some stories and decided to make a film combining all for “shock factor” with a lense aimed to draw foreigners/Westerners. Are there arranged marriages in Turkey? Yes, then let’s have all of them have arranged marriages (even the 14 year old! Which is rape by law). Are there people who are still fixated on virginity? Yes, let’s have the most bizarre wedding night/virginity check scene for shock factor. Is there familial sexual abuse in Turkey? Yes, then let’s have the uncle abuse not one but two of them back to back. Etc. It sounds like a hodge podge of all 3rd page news (in Turkey, murder/rape/crime etc news are traditionally on the 3rd page of newspapers, hence the term) compiled and offered back to back like a soap opera.
It looks like a movie not made to challenge the existing sexist systems in Turkey and be revolutionary (not that an art work has to), but to create shock factor for Westerners to say “Wow, look how bad they have it there, we are so lucky” and to “appease” them.
I don’t honestly also believe her that she was not influenced by Virgin Suicides, it is so clear as day. When I first saw Mustang, I didn’t know Virgin Suicides. When I later watched it, I kept thinking about all the ways Mustang was influenced by it.
The thing most bothers me about the film(apart from the unbearable and translation-sounding dialogue and weird mish mash of old traditions included in a weird and incorrect manner) it is also not a feminist story. Girls (apart from the youngest, Lale, who sounds like a self-insert by the writers) are extremely passive, they lack personality and motives. It is about 5 sisters and somehow manages to fail at being a “sisterhood” story. The oldest gets married to her boyfriend and happily goes off, never to be seen again. Second one, Selma, was forced to an arranged marriage, we see her first night trauma and that’s it. If the point is that we see the story from Lale’s eyes, so miss them when they left home, then we should not even know the wedding night scene. Additionally, I don’t think people understand how often married people actually visit their own family in Turkey, especially if everyone is living in the same small village, like they should be together multiple times a week. The only time we see all sisters together is Ece’s funeral. Somehow the eldest two are not even their sister’s (4th one, Nur) wedding? Even as guests. Or why are not they helping the youngest two to escape? To me, it is a poorly made movie, whichever way you slice it, and should not be treated as this beacon of feminist cinema.
I agree
@@itsmebecky24 🙏🏻
I couldnt agree more
just because the old traditions does not happen in your family anymore does not equal to its not happening anywhere else
@@moriarty8161i lived in the worst parts of Turkey considered very conservative when I was younger and nothing like this happened I watched the country but there was nothing showing Turkish culture
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think a diplomat's daughter who grew up in France should be the one to make a movie about the struggles of being a woman in rural Turkey. As a Turkish woman, I'm somehow not the target audience of this movie. Pure orientalism.
I’m Turkish too, the setting, the culture etc is all Turkish…but the acting and writing is very French. I would like a Turkish woman to remake this movie honestly
THIS
@@denizlol149 Yes the whole thing feels incredibly foreign. You can’t even tell where this village is supposed to be. The dialogues sound translated. A movie like this should be made by someone who’s familiar with the country for the right reasons but instead we get a movie made by a French woman for a foreign audience.
@@areyouthereatall to be honest, most turkish movies seem foreign in some aspects (it's usually the dialogue) even if it is filmed by a complete local. That's probably because people who film do get an education at some point and the education consists of analyzing many foreign films. In that sense, it is true that cinema is beyond borders.
Other aspect I'd like to point out is that what makes it Turkish, as I have been to the most parts of the country and I cannot talk of a unified culture that can be represented. We have many different types of conservatives, as we have many different types of open-mindedness. I don't know if it is the case in Europe or USA but to me Turkey feels like it had a very mixed culture to begin with. For instance, whenever we see a conservative family in a movie from USA, 90% of the time they live in suburbs and have blond hair. In Turkey, a conservative family can consist of women who wear headscarves, can have any color of hair (some conservatives are okay with hair dyeing only if it is blonde for some reason), they might have some specific types of piercings, and lately there are even tattooed conservatives. We have conservative communities in which women are not allowed to laugh audibly, or other conservative communities such as the black sea region where women can laugh hard as they can but still oppressed sexually in other means.
So, what I really ask is, how Turkish and non-orientalistic a movie about Turkey can be? Do you have any good examples?
@@echorises "to be honest, most turkish movies seem foreign in some aspects (it's usually the dialogue) even if it is filmed by a complete local"
Hmm actually no? This movie is made by a French woman and it shows
This movie really made me cry, us Muslim girls understand this movie. My mom was forced to marry my dad, she was 18 and he was 42, she met him on her wedding night, she nvr got to fall in love 😔
remember watching this film when it released, still one of my favorites of all time and i'm surprised it isn't brought up more in pop culture. thank you for giving it much deserved attention!!
I haven’t met a Turkish person who liked this film. It’s a French film made by people who never stepped a foot in Turkey. And i don’t mean that there are no patriarchial issues here in Turkey, the characters are not culturally relevant to Turkish girls and all that. It’s such an orientalist move and i can’t believe westerners are still falling for these type of things in 2024. Latest Nuri Bilge Ceylan film is more on point on women struggle than this one.
Ben izlemeyi düşünüyodum ama dediğin gibi yabancı yapımı olunca anladım Türk kültürünü yansıtmayacağını. İzlesem sinir olurum büyük ihtimalle
Your point was acknowledged in the video. See 27:19 to 28:07.
That being said, for the record, the director herself was born in Turkey. She and her family moved to France shortly after her birth, but came back to Turkey around when she was nine years old for several years. Additionally, all of the five sisters were born in Turkey (and presumably the rest of the cast, admittedly I neglected to check) and the writers emphasized obtaining permission from their parents for certain scenes and opened themselves up to critique from the actresses themselves. And finally, the film was literally made in Turkey.
You may have your critiques as it pertains to Turkish culture, but you shouldn’t downplay the creators’ exposure to Turkish culture. Regardless of whether it was an accurate depiction of Turkish girlhood, I still believe it is a powerful film on the perception of female child development into so-called womanhood.
I feel like when people come with this point it is because they feel like this movie is some kind of attack on Turkish culture, which is not the point. The film and movie which this is kinda based on is the virgin suicides which literally takes place in Michigan, America, so the idea that this is some twisted view that the west solely has on turkey just contradicts itself. The ongoing themes from both these films shows that misogyny and the pain og being a woman exists in all corners off the world, yet can look different. I think the movie itself also makes it clear that this is not the culture in all of turkey, hence why they want to escape to Istanbul.
@@ClareAmelno it is not. She makes it out to be like its because relogius people people did not like the movie as an atheist turkish girl i hate this movie because it is extremely orientalist. It disgusts me that a foreigner thinks they habe the right to make a movie about a culture they only know superficially. It is like men making movies about the womens perspective.
@@adgsjsliwiwjx3297the point is not the fact that women face misogny and terrible things happen to woman everywhere. There are a lot of turkish movies on this topic. The issue is the extremely orientalist air that any native turkish person can feel when they see this movie. Nothing in this movie is organic. Idk i think wapecially as a culture who had to deal with orientalism for centuries it is normal for natives to not like being caricaturized and turned into subhuman to make a story for the western audience, no?
this movie pushed me to change my major to women’s and gender studies, this and yk everything else in the world..
This is a film I hold so dear to my heart. The one I tell everyone they need to watch. Thank you for covering it ☺️
I find it a tad ridiculous that the filmmaker claims she wasn’t inspired by Virgin Suicides after admitting to reading the book and watching the film. There’s too many similarities in content and style. It’s true that the story is different and her own, but that doesn’t not mean the influences aren’t inherently present. I found it disingenuous that she did not address the similarities.
Yeha it should not be a problem to be inspired by other films. It’s a normal event
I deleted my original comment because I thought the film maker had written this with a deep personal interest and connection to this type of life in Turkey by what she said after saying it wasn’t inspired by Virgin Suicides. I didn’t realize she was actually French and just visited Turkey multiple times throughout her childhood. Originally, I was playing devils advocate and admitting that she very likely did take a lot of inspiration from Virgin Suicides, but perhaps her experience actually was a lot like that and so there’s not actually as much inspiration being taken as it appears. But yeah… no.. After finding out more information, she was clearly extremely inspired by the film and the book.
I’ve seen several comments girl Turkish people explaining how this movie feels distant and incorrect in so many ways as though it was created by a foreigner and not by someone who knows their culture deeply. Someone else pointed out that many of the scenes included concepts that have been outdated since before her grandparents got married and were taken to the extreme as well. She explained that the movie she created about Turkish culture really comes off as someone who visited occasionally and knew a little bit about some of the girls around town, but heard a lot of rumors and gossip so she decided to run with that information instead of facts. She also explained that there were many issues with language and phrases used that made it obvious this was not created by a native Turkish speaker or even by someone deeply familiar with the language and culture.
So, after learning more and seeing that her comment about it being her lived experience isn’t quite true, I agree with you. She is massively downplaying the influence the Virgin Suicides had on her film.
Not just that, there is no way she wasn't. The reason there is no way she wasn't, is because mustang is complete fantasy in Turkish society. The type of people that would try to force their daughter to marry after they saw them talk to a boy. Is literally zero. The type of people that would get upset at their daughter for talking to a boy. Now those, those exist. Those are ultra conservatives. But see, those would also never allow their daughters to walk around in a bikini, to have a bikini and their daughters would 100% be covered with a headscarf and wearing very conservative clothes.
The idea that these girls were all just dolled up, walking around in bikinis, sunbathing etc and everyone was ok with it. But talking to a boy and now they have to marry? That is not something that exists or happens in Turkey. The maker likely never met a conservative Turk in her life, she lives in a bubble and just wanted a movie that looked cool and "hit you in the feews" .. or outraged you. But the movie is COMPLETE fantasy. And the frustrating part is a lof of Turkish girls are commenting saying stuff like "yeah my grand parents once got upset at me for sneaking off with a boy" .. bro, that's not the same thing.
Even though these movies were made in two different parts of the world, they are beautifully portraying the difficulties, restrictions and social judgments that girls go through while growing up. It is even more beautiful that you have compared and analyzed these two movies so well. Thank you for turning these movies into videos with your different and beautiful point of view.
Love from Turkey 🇹🇷💖
Cried most of the video, thank you so much for this gem❤️
This was a random movie that I saw on cable when I was young and its story resonated with me so much, but I didn't remember the name, I can't believe I found it thanks to your channel! I'm going to start watching it again 😭❤
It's on Tubi !
It was on MBC wasn't it
ahh i’ve been thinking about this movie recently but couldn’t remember the name! i’m so excited that you made a vid on this film!
Thank you for making a video on one of my all time favorite films!
I developed breasts at 8 and got my period at 10 (in fifth grade) and I went the whole day not quite wanting to realize. you capture that really well here
One of the best films of the last decade
STOPP i was just binging your videos. thank you so much for providing me once again your intelligent perspective and takes on film
I would love to see you tackle Lucile Hadžihalilović's film Innocence at some point, which parallels with the controversy around Mustang and the backlash towards the director. When Innocence was released people saw pedophilic content that wasn't there, and when it was shown to children there was more of an understanding and less hysteria than when it was screened for adults. It's a very interesting but mysterious film and framed as a fairy tale/coming of age story too. It fits right into this discussion.
I really love the atmosphere and tension in that film. Like the catacomb like underground tunnels and the recurring scenes of water.
What struck me the most are all of these images of little girls being free: running around, swimming and being unclothed around each other without anything terrible happening. And then I realized "Oh... it's because there are no men there."
it’s always the women talking about their own girlhood getting flamed…. 😭 Meanwhile actual male p*do monsters make like, literal child endangerment material and call it a film: 😶 Radio silence or “this is a masterpiece no further comment.”
two of my favorites! thanks for the comparisons and putting girlhood to words
AS A TURKISH FAN OF YOU…..omg
We have the same name oh my god ❤
5:18 that’s exactly how i found out i had a moustache, a ‘friend’ of mine asked why i had hair on my upper lip, and of course it was said loudly in front of a boy 🙄
Half of the pain becomes invisible if atleast we women support each other. This is how we treat our sisters no wonder men feel they can harm us.
Omg I loved that movie, glad you’re talking about it.
This was a beautiful video essay on these movies and girlhood that brought me nearly to tears…
I will watch both movies and read the book. Thank you ❤
About Menopause. There is also pain that comes along with it, since menopause signals nearing the end of menstrual cycle there may or may not be blood either way many women’s pains go away or multiply. During menopause some women say that they’d rather die due to the pain
I love this movie, when i made a point on how the two movies were similar i remember talking about how different they actually are, even though they deal with the sexualization of teenage girls they have many cultural differences. I have waited for a video like this especially by someone like you. I loved the video, thank you so much!
This is so triggering for me. I am seeing one of my friends do this to her own children. She’s bragged about not wanting them to have friends, putting cameras in their rooms, prohibiting them from sports such as gymnastics and cheerleading and they are literal babies. Her obsession with teaching them to “cover up” or to be irrational weary of ALL men including their own father really bothers me. Our society needs to recognize that your toxic attempt to carry out your control fetish under the guise of “protecting a girls innocence” is ironic. You don’t need to worry about the world stripping their innocence because you are doing it already.
Long time subscriber but very irregular watcher, but so far every video I've watched I went and watched the movie, LOVED IT (Miss Bala was so up my alley that I'm surprised I'd never come across it before!). This will be no exception, I'm SO excited to watch Mustang!
I feel like the Virgin Suicides is from a very distinct male gaze. The girls feel like a spectacle, some thing to look at and say "How sad". Mustang is much better in my opinion instead of romanticizing real issues it's really clear the story has real empathy for the characters. Instead of the girls feeling like stereotypes they feel like real people with real lives.
ahhhhh yes yes yes one of my all time favorites and no one ever knows what i’m talking about!!
As an ex Muslim, many religions play a huge factor in this sort of mindset
It really does,my country iran is a big example of it unfortunately
i dont really think that religion is the main issue here we have oppression of women in every religion not only islam
i have seen the same kind of oppression happen to women of other cultures to
it is a men problem
but alas men find way to justify their behavior by calling it religion
@@nishthaneelabh8389it is religion stop justifying it
@@Odumase i agree its religion i am myself an atheist because of it
religion is just a creative way to justify abuse in this case
but this kind of abuse happens in every religion if you go to other extremist
it is not only a religion problem but also a men problem thats all i am saying
@@Odumase no its the men agenda they have (power +control) even befor any religion exist ..read history
I grew up in a non-conservative family so i am lucky but I saw people and my friends go through same experience as shown in mustang. I live in Turkey. My experience being a girl and living in Turkey is exhausting. Nearly everyday we see femicide in news and there is more that people don't talk about. Women and little girls are being killed for not being "pure", "indecent" or simply because they exist. I don't see this movie as how western people see Turkey. Things like this is happening, happened and will be happen. Child abuse and child marriage is common in Turkey especially in rural areas.
I was one the few who watched Mustang, thanks for your awesome video. I loved it.
Watching this video sends chills down my body. Here in Turkey, they have such a way of normalizing their conservative beliefs that everywhere I look in our culture I get sick.
Finally someone talks about this movie
i get so so obsessed with the movies you talk about! i desperately wish i could see your watchlist/watched list on letterboxd or something, you have really good taste and i got to watch a lot of new movies because of you!!
I dont know whether to yell at you ir thank you for introducing me to this gem of a film thats left me sobbing while i type this
I decided at 1 am to watch this movie... oh my god i was crying by the end. So powerful. This was honestly better than the virgin suicides to me, it was more powerful to me and since it was centered around the girls and not observers of them. This was incredible.
Absolutely such a huge fan of you and your content!! You consistently make the best videos !! I’ve been watching since the beginning and I’m so glad to see you constantly growing!! Keep it up!!!❤️❤️❤️
love this!! i was wondering if youve ever heard of the movie “the crush” and what your thoughts are on it?
Ooh yes 😊 young Alicia Silverstone
I was reminiscing this film just a few days ago how impactful it was to me when I watched it many years ago. Thank you for choosing film. Time for a rewatch. This last scene where the little girl finally reaches her teacher's house made me bawl. 😢
P.S. You should do an analysis on Picnic at Hanging Rock, which may have inspired both these two stories.
💟
You are one of my favorite film analysis channels. Keep it up!
I love this movie! I saw an independent movie theater when it came out and then I feel like nobody talked about it after that. I’m so glad somebody is covering it
this make me proud and glad for my teenage girl-self and what we went trough. thank you.
As a Turkish girl, I can understand non-Turkish people like this movie but I can not understand why many Turks love it? It is so bad and unauthentic that I needed subtitles (cause the movie didn't feel Turkish at all, like I am watching a poorly dubbed foreign movie)
I watched this movie when I was younger and forgot what it was called, thank you for the nostalgia!
Cried at the end. Your videos are always amazing 💘
I'm a big fan of your video essays and you inspire me with my own work. I'm only halfway through this one but felt compelled to ask if you could find a film that looks at older women. Menopause happens to us all and yet it is shrouded in mystery. I recently found out that women going through menopause are the largest group of women that try to take their own lives. And yet no-one talks about it. I'm planning to watch Woman Under the Influence soon, which stars Gena Rowlands and focuses on mental health so that might be a good one. Thanks for all your work.
I watched the movie just this year as a Turkish woman thinking that I will dislike it thoroughly but I liked the narration and story structure and I definitely understood why it resonated with so many western women. I now think Turkish media disregarded the movie unfairly and Turkish critics were too judgemental--and for what?
Now, the time period in the movie doesn't fit the story realistically I must say. Sociologically, the story is unusual.
I wouldn't expect that an *uppermiddle class family* (I recognize this from their home and the uncle's position in the village) *which doesn't seem to belong in hyper religious structures* (the older woman covered their heads traditionally and there was no aspect of extremely religious cults/sects (and we have a lot of them in Turkey)) *would marry their 14-year-old niece, especially in post-2013 Turkey* (we can recognize that because the story shows Gezi Parkı protest related stuff). It is not impossible, it just seems very unlikely because of social structures in Turkey.
*Nonetheless* the story still manages to be relatable, because it is moving and I just couldn't stop myself rooting for the girls. It reflects how the society tries to control the activities and even the very emotions of little girls. It shows how something that seems very natural (playing and having fun as young girls) will disturb the patriarchal society and will be deemed as unnatural and wrong by them. I liked that the girls don't really comprehend the rules, they are trying to live in their own worlds. The disruption was not made by them, instead the people around them were disrupting their lives.
It is a French movie though. I say it not only because of sociological misconstruction, but because of the style. The style reminded me not of Virgin Suicides but other French dramatic films (like Choir). And about the Western Gaze.... She might have written the script as such for the western gaze, she might have even changed it to be acknowledged and awarded by the Western institutions and media. I wouldn't be surprised tbh. But I also see the movie creates a focus of discussion among the Western women about their own experiences, too. Why would it be a bad thing? I don't feel like something is taken away from me.
I’ve wanted to watch this movie for a while now!!! Thank you for making this video
FANTASTIC video. Would love to hear your opinions on "Sharp Objects " or " The girl on the train" or "Gone girl " ❤
This is the best channel on earth
Two great movies. Your video is really amazing, loved it!
How old are you I wonder? It’s true that we don’t talk about menopause enough. And I personally want to change that and know myself what is to come. Because as terrible as puberty can be, I think from what I’ve heard and can tell so far that menopause is worse in many ways. Especially since it is so “shameful” in societies eyes. Even more so than a girls puberty is. Since as you say we as women don’t even know much since it’s barely spoken of. Also, society puts our whole value in our fertility. So after menopause that, I’m sure, can feel like we have lost our womanhood. Plus all the pain and unwanted body changes that I’ve heard of from my gma and mom (who is dealing with this now). Idk, the obsession with young girls, and even by us, puberty etc is kinda annoying when we don’t also want to speak on what happens later in our lives (if we’re lucky enough to get there).
I seriously hate how our society and culture seem to only Fawn over Pre-Teen , Teenage and early 20 year old girls and women.
Because that is when we are at our most confused and fragile states .
We are impressionable and confused due to all the changes we are going through , and life lessons we are learning.
It's almost as if they enjoy how weak and fragile we are in those states it seems sick a predatory
@@mariec3527very true, men especially love this vulnerable state and want to ruin it, sully it and most importantly, destroy it
true
as saudi woman who is coverd from head to toe
i have no word to say
i think the girls in mustang are happier than me too
i just feel so blue. life is meanless to me
yess one of my favorite movies!! i love hearing your takes on films and how you relate to them sm since they’re so similar to my experiences as a teen 🤍
You should watch “My Aunt is Here” it is a turkish movie based on a true story. It is about child brides. This movie is a core memory for a lot of turkish girls and I highly recommend it. I remember watching it on TV with my cousins as a kid and we cried rivers that night.
WAIT WHAT SHE HAD HPV?!!! Is that in the book ??? Sorry, it’s just so do I 😢 and um, yeah been having horrible unaliving thoughts since finding out. I wondered why not enough media/lit mention women’s struggle with it… so that’s really eye opening, wow!
@@lintickk thank you! Its been hard🥹❤️
Though I no longer identify quite as strongly with girlhood/womanhood (though I’m coming back around and embracing certain aspects of feminine identity) I remember watching Mustang back when it was released.
It was my final year of high school and the summer going into it was really the moment I remember leaving childhood. I very much was a Cecilia, I was so strange to everyone who knew me, I wasn’t looked at as a sexual being for it, so it shocked me when it happened. I was walking our big, massive 100 lb plus dog one afternoon. I had decided to wear a summer dress, as it was one of those blistering days where the sweat just collects no matter what, and as I walked, the dog pulled me this way and that, and a breeze that felt good started up, but with that, a group of young men in their 20s in a muscle car drove past. They catcalled me and wolf whistled and I remember one yelling he would walk my dog good, with a tone that felt like I had swallowed something rotten. I had just turned 17.
I felt embarrassed and alien, I had long hair at the time like the sisters in Mustang and I walked home with it hanging in curtains around my face, unable to look at the world. I cut it off my first day back at school, and some time later, when I started having feelings for my best friends, I watched Mustang and felt an instant connection with these girls, as much as I was traveling away from being a woman.
So I was so excited to see someone talk about this movie that felt like it had captured lighting in a bottle for me, for that year of endings and saying goodbye to my innocence. Maybe I should watch TVS soon.
This is so well done
I watched this movie many years ago on The Criterion Channel and bawled my eyes out.
Sadly never heard of this movie, but I‘ll check it out! Btw I‘m obsessed with you whole channel, the topics, the informations and the editing 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Maybe you could make a video about „A Girl Walks Home Alone At Night“! ❤️
Love this analysis, I wanna check out Mustang now
I don’t even know those two films existed. I’m definitely going to check out the film Mustang. It looks like a very interesting film to watch.
Yeah talk about Turkish women only when a French women makes an incorrect movie about them. Classic westoid behaviour
I remember seeing Mustang in the cinema some time after it came out. Generally, my thoughts on it were similiar to the ones expressed in this video. I felt, however, that it was less stylized, in love with pretty visuals, and more raw, emotionally-focused than the Virgins Suicides. It had more to say as well.
omg I LOVE LOVE LOVE mustang so many people do not speak about this movie enough I remember watching it on netflix when I was like 16/17 and was so obsessed with it, going to rewatch it
As a Turkish woman who grew up in a conservative town, I just watched the movie Mustang and honestly I am a bit dissapointed, we indeed have our struggles with sexism but Mustang does not portray it accurately. It looks like pure orientalism from a Turkish perspective :(
NO ONE TALKS ABOUT THIS MASTERPIECE ENOUGH!
Im glad someones finally talking about this movie .
I love it ❤ especially when i have all sisters for siblings and our relationship was exactly like this
I remember the exact moment my girlhood died. i was 9 and in turkey with my family and while i was laying in the sun with shorts that went to my knees, my father came to me and told me to change because i was "showing off" too much.
...Well, the algorithm was good to me today... Never knew or heard of this movie - little gem. Magnificent essey!
Deniz Gamze Erguven; I should remember her name.
Omg I remember seeing this film years ago and have periodically thought about it ever since, but could never remember the name or find it on Google. I remember it was the first time I heard the Turkish language and really enjoyed the film overall. I might have to give this and The Virgin Suicides another watch now.
This video hurt my heart 😢also me and Sonay basically have the same name, pronounced the same too
I don't know if you take suggestions, but if so, I would LOVE to hear your thoughts on Swallow (2019) or Sun Choke (2015).
Is this why so many of us women often have moments we just wish to be children again?
That a human thing not a girl thint
Childhood is the most innocent carefree time of our life
The Teenagehood and Adulthood is marqued by more and more problems and issue so we wish to go back to when we were cared for in every single aspect of our life
Love love love this channel ❤❤ also Yhara Zayd
4:49 this is so true 😢
Fr, I can’t wait until after I have kids and I can get a reduction. I have Cs, but that’s too big for me
yahh new video luv your channel
Never watched the movies, but the message resonates with me (and i will definitely watch them now).
I remember the first day I was looked at sexually. An older boy pointed out that my breasts we're developing when i was in a tighter shirt I was wearing, I was only 10 and never thought of myself that way.
Ever since then it was hard to shake the feeling of being seen as a "woman to be". It stuck in a way that made me want to never wear tighter clothes again.
deserved 10 oscars
Also one of those sisters played by Elit İşçan, she played in Little Women remake (2008-2011)
The way ppl know us like that is bad but the real horrible thing is thesse are real and im a teenage girl in this country