It's a really good support weapon but in a game where the best support is just doing more damage it's hard to justify using it over "number go up" weapons
It also just takes too long to build up when stuff like ticcus take 2 shots. This thing takes 6 headshots or 3 headshot kills to give a suspend effect worse than a suspend nade in size with a max enemy limitation. I have no idea what they were think with this.
The crazy part is this is exactly what people were asking for in a strand bow at least anytime I saw strand bows mentioned, hopefully those people are happy
@@vprocIndeed, when something comes out, people judge it regardless of how ready it is, as it is out. Opinions can change if that's what you're worried about?
This mission actually made me care about the story. I like small, contained stories like this with actual character. The whole "Witness ending the universe" is too broad and big to actually have any care for. The stakes don't always have to get higher to be engaging.
IMO we need more focus on inter-connecting narratives. Many seasons have me asking: "Why should I care about this when the Witness is on our doorstep?"
@@Lorentz_Driver It's the opposite for me. The Witness storyline is irrelevant to me. We're gonna win, so I really don't see the point in caring. The ahamkara, tough? They'll probably make it a happy ending, but they could just as easily make them permanently extinct or have some internal conflict in the vanguard with reviving the species as allies.
Yeah looks like quite a few people are forgetting one of the most important rules of exotics, if it does specify a subclass it can be used on any subclass.
@@Dynasty1818I use Strand Warlock with Thread of Isolation and Continuity paired with a sniper with Triple Tap and Vorpal and Wish-Keeper. Absolutely melts big bois and the Severing adds extra prolonged damage. I have a lot of fun with the loadout
I can def see hatchling going crazy on this. Get a precision kill (2 charges), spawn threadling, threadling gets a kill (3 charges), you fully charge your snare after 2 kills instead of 3
Pair it with the Fragment that makes your Strand Weapon kills spawn a threadling, and you get two threadlings, constant suspend, constant Beyblades, and constant ability and/or Weapon damage boost when paired with Foetracers.
Personally as someone who’s least favorite weapon type is bows i’ve been really liking it on strand titan, i’ve been pairing it with 1-2 punch Grapple/Synthoceps I took it into Solo Lake of Shadows GM and managed to clear it so i was pleasantly surprised with Wish Keeper I’m definitely in its target demographic, I’m up to 1200 kills on it giving me the option of having suspend on Synth banner of war without needing to run shackle/leaps and thus keep Fray/Banner while being able to control the map is actuallybusted My only complaint is they should have made precision kills count for 3 snareweavers instead of 2, because needing 6heads or 3 kills gets a little annoying because it takes so long, so hopefully with hatchling the threadling procs snareweaver as that would midi gate this issue Also timegating the catalyst is massive L, we’ve been through this with Revision and Vexcalibur already its getting old waiting weeks just to add 10 stability to a gun
Can confirm. This mission was a beast to do solo. I also don't do much build crafting but tried my best with making one. Took me a bit but it was rewarding to beat!
I ripped through the mission on solo with no problems whatsoever. Playing Legendary solo is a different story. Tanky shields on most enemies and snipers everywhere. Took me almost 2 hours to finish it. Shit is no joke man.
I’ve been adamant that the additional perk options are going to make a much bigger impact on this now than the catalyst options. I think that part of the reason why it’s not clicking so much right now is because of that 684 draw time which can make any bow feel sluggish when it’s not either getting a huge draw time reduction like hush or even hierarchy of needs, or absolutely trucking dudes like wish-ender, which wish-keeper currently only fires a bit faster than. Draw string perks will be major and we should be getting them next week with the next level of the intrinsic, and then the arrow perks will also make things much nicer when you can get compact arrow shaft for the increased reload speed. When this thing is firing at 612, or at 576 (presumably) when you suspend, it’s going to be a lot snappier and satisfying because you’ll be able to dish out more damage buffed arrows much more quickly. I’m also a strand main and a bow main, so this was basically like Christmas for me and I know I’m going to be putting a lot of kills on it in every level of content.
I will say that the ability to build charges w/ out kills on Wish Keeper is a step up on Veriglass since in high end content you won't be building your quiver as easily and that bow actively punishes you for not using the bow to break the Crystals
@@lukatosic09 GMs aren't about one shotting enemies. especially not for something like a bow that's gnerally bad at dealing with multiple targets and isnt worth it for single target unless its an exotic. This bow is better because wiith the right buiild it still does pretty decent single target damage, BUT the ability to suspend non stop in GMs is a no brainer and automatically makes this better than verglass.
Have to remember that Datto doesn't like using bows or sidearms. But he's not wrong about the feel of the bow. It just needs a unraveling as an intrisic.
CC is only really useful on specific enemy types like, Tormentors and Wyverns for ease of access to their crit spots. This bow receiving extra damage and dps on suspend reinforces this since it'll allow for decent primary ammo damage on those situations.
I think the most understated part of this is the ability to use suspend on non strand classes. Really fun to use on something like voidlock that doesn't have CC abilities compared to other classes
I really like it, my only issue being the thing you mentioned about the speed of combat vs the speed of this bow. My faster bows are already not great for some situations and while I tend to sit in the space between playing casually and slightly more optimally, its still just really slow. I do love that it provides a strong way to get suspend for non-strand classes, similar to verglas curve with stasis, that is really neat. Hoping for some more draw speed or less total charges required in the future, otherwise it's a fun bow for relaxed content and showing off to my friends who don't play much.
I think it’ll get buffed, bungie seems to have adopted the mindset of releasing stuff in a mild state and buffing later, realistically if there’s something powerful with a weapon players would find it way easier than play testers
Been looking forward to this mostly to stack the bonus damage to suspended targets with Oathkeepers. I have a similar setup with Verglas and that stasis fragment - just a different flavor
I think the problem with this bow is that the charge and effect are on opposites sides of the spectrum difficulty wise. In low tier content, it's easy to charge by getting kills, but you don't need suspend, because ads are gonna fall over immediately. In higher tier content, getting use out of the effect is great, but now takes 6 head shots on a slow draw time bow to activate, mid tier is the only place I can see use out of this, but is overshadowed by more high pace builds that this bow just can't keep up with.
I know people are comparing this to verglass curve and how VC is better but I just don't understand that. Wishkeeper hits harder because it is a Precision frame. You'll also be able to reduce the draw time and make it a stat monster once it's fully upgraded. And you get a 50% damage bonus when an enemy is suspended and you have a faster draw time when you suspend enemies. It makes it very similar to how VC works but it's Strand and it's suspends and it's a better damage dealing bow. Plus it's the best looking bow in the game
I actually used this thing on my strand hunter build when doing 2 man GM's the same day. The crowd control was def nice to have when it came to the suspend capabilities, while also allowing myself to keep my Grapple Grenade.
The bow seems cool and given how the other exotic bows are it's not too surprising they leaned into crowd control/ aoe for the new strand exotic bow, given how most exotic bows have some form of explosion built in and those are colour coded for each element. Honestly though while the aoe suspend is flashy and nice, I was hoping that when we did get a strand bow it'd have an ability to shoot grapples somehow, like an alt fire maybe to grapple over to where you shoot, or using hipfire again for the effect. Verglass Curve has good aoe with it's freezing and shatter damage and suspend is probably the closer comparison, but the fact it's such an easy way to make crystals on a weapon and all the "not just damage" applications those have is what really makes the bow feel fun imo, and grapple is probably strand's stasis crystal in that respect.
Would’ve been cooler if it fired cursor guided arrows that create suspending explosions either on kill or some other requirement, maybe give it a gimmick where the arrows have bigger hitboxes so you can grapple it, then you can make yourself or teammates fly off of it while it’s going
I'm using it right now for gm's on hunter with bow gauntlets and double suspend nades. It's the new infinite suspend on hunter and the slow playstyle fits well with gm content
@@Flecco it should based on all other damage inheritance in the game. To the point it would either be a bug or a deliberate descision not to if it wasnt.
This is basically my bow for Strand warlock during GMs. The infinite suspend as well as being able to bank a get out of jail free card. I know specifically in the glassway boss room using this to hold that choke point is gonna be fun. Also Vorpal is my clear pick, free 20% dmg buff.
Maybe once it's fully crafted it'll be viable for GMs but there's no way anyone can say this bow in it's current state is good for GMs over Quicksilver or Wishender
This bow reminds me a lot more of Hierarchy of Needs than Verglas Curve. It's got similar rules for stacking up the charges and features a deployable that augments the weapon. Both also seem to suffer from the same issue of relative slowness.
One of the catalysts should’ve been to cause targets to explode like tangles when they are suspended and killed by the bow, and those kills counting towards your next suspend arrow. That would’ve been a really fun gameplay loop and would’ve added some nice AEO damage which I think is this bows missing ingredient🤙
See…now that’s what I mean when it comes to exos in the game that seem a little underwhelming (1 change could genuinely make this bow be a great contender for something comparable to wish-ender regarding its catalyst)
Your commentary about Vorpal were much simplification of the strength of Vorpal, "I am not using it for boss damage ever". You know very well what "boss" means to Vorpal Weapon!
It'll probably feel faster on a Warlock once you get Hatchling, and cause Keyword Soup. Obviously needs to be tested, but Hatchling threadlings count as weapon damage (they can proc perks like Subsistence), which might help you build the suspend arrows faster. With Hatchling, Thread of Rebirth, that threadling artifact perk, and Swarmers, you spawn a metric ton of Threadlings, and they all apply Unravel to their impacted victims. This can causes threadlings/unravel chain reactions. I actually made use of this on using the Dungeon bow during the mission itself. With Wishkeeper, this gives warlock access to all three Suspend, Unravel, and Threadlings without even considering your abilities or other weapons, possibly at an elivated rate. Again, needs to be tested.. but god damn I hope it works.
I had A50's and my experience was not so good so hopefully the X's fix some of those issues. The first thing to crap the bed was the docking bay then the headset couldnt hold a charge. it would be charging all night, wake up unplug it and it would say battery low. This was all within 1.5 years of purchase.
I think a great way to buff this weapon is make each stack of the perk able to play a trap, with each stack increasing the traps set with a max of six. This way you get more use out of the weapon trait, and also gets more overall synergy with Strand in general. Also making it not a hipfire shot, but one you have to hold a button to activate. I hate accidentally using it because an enemy rushed me and my muscle memory took over and wasted the trap.
If you ignore all the drama and all that fun stuff happening at bungie, this season is actually kinda fun, stories pretty decent, gameplay loop with coil is consistent with loot and how you play. Excited to see what “wishes” are later on but y’all this seasons not bad all things considered.
for me the main draw is just giving suspend access to every subclass, not that you need it at all with how powerful builds can be but it's another fun thing in the toolbox. i should note im a huge bow fan and a hierarchy of needs truther so take that as you will lol
I believe the easiest way to make this bow better is to make it get charges faster and do more damage to suspended targets. Also add something for bosses like also doing more damage to unravled targets or severed.
@datto I have a build suggestion that helped me main this bow: Strand Titan / Wormgod exotic arms / Strand surge x3 + whatever armor charge perks you like to get orbs. At max Wormgod and surge I was doing 40k to red bars without suspension. Yellow bars are still an issue but suspension does increase the damage output enough to be passing. This still can't do much in end game content, but the suspension utility does open up your options for champions. I still hope to get more from this bow, but for now this build helps with its deficit in damage output.
The definition of Warlock is get the things done with no rush. Using Vorpal Weapon when available, it will increase damage 20% against Miniboss, Boss and Vehicle. The end game activity can have Strand surge modifier. You can use 3x weapon surge mod. You can use it with Necrotic Grip to help with crowd control.
Specing into the bows perks on titan with abeyant and some non traditional fragments, along with the artifact mods, made this really satisfying and almost addicting to use, at least for me
The comparison is keep making in my mind is it’s Verglas Curve, but Strand However: something unique that CoolGuy pointed out: Against suspended targets, with Wish-Keeper, body shots and head shots do the same damage, however bodyshots against suspended targets won’t count unless they’re kills
I understand what you have said about how the mission ended with the boss, and having that mission baked into the story. However, I am not sure it really matters. As a very casual player, I pretty much have given up on the story at step 18 where I am being forces into the Coil. This seems to be Bungie trying to force players to use the fireteam finder, which I really have no interest in. And form the looks of Coil, I won't be trying to run all the way through solo. It is too bad, but since I was not playing during the the original wish dragon story, I really don't care that much about this wish dragon story. The final shape will land in any case, and I'll try and pick it all up at that point. Maybe in another season down the road I'll buy that bow at the Kiosk. Or not. Maybe if I had a good finder experience looking through it I'd be more up beat about it.
I’ve been running Wish-keeper with my Threadling Warlock build. Being able to have free suspending for my threadlings tomato AI to actually hit their target helps a ton.
A funny thought I had was teaching bungie to play MTG because that game teaches the ebb and flow of balance of control versus damage pretty well I think.
I think it's an amazing weapon for heavy suspend builds, I put together a suspension build on my hunter with foe tracer and that bow does work in the GM. I was critting 58k shots on suspended enemies and it was doing well. I do think wish ender and solar builds are better at the moment, but when the catalyst drops for that bow I believe the catalyst will give it that boost to bring it up to the level of competing. But it's not bad as is right now, heavy support weapon at the moment
I was hoping that you'd string enemies up and then shooting a stung up enemy, you'd basically be shooting a tangle in that you'd be causing major damage to all nearby suspension targets. That could have also lead up into making a suspension build connects with the bow in where it'd maybe keep chaining to all suspended targets. However, that could be a bit much and maybe just keep the major damage to the trap area.
You would never take such a slow, low damage weapon in low mans. If you ever use an exotic primary in low mans, it's gonna clear adds in a large area in one swoop without having to shoot each enemy individually. E.g. Sunshot, Osteo, Trinity Ghoul are common picks, this bow will never compete with those.
What would have pushed this bow IMMEDIATELY into the meta would be if it had the ability to suspend enemies that currently can't be suspended i.e. bosses, tanks, etc.
I spent two hours with it. Changed my whole strand build as a warlock. Keep THE BOOTS ON. OUT THAT TANGLE ASPECT THINGY ON. CHANGE THE FRAGS TO SUSPEND. PLAY WITH THE ARTIFACT. AND THEN TOU CONSUME YOUSHACKLE GRENADE!! She hits harder than the Curve. I need to get the catalyst for say I love it.
its pretty good,, i use it on a titan suspend build. but realistically the best way to play destiny is to do the most damage as possible, melee strand titan will always be better than a suspend titan build as it kills enemies, instead of just keeping enemies still for a few seconds
I think it's strength will come from builds that don't already have suspend getting suspend, especially strand setups, like using whirling maelstrom and threaded specter on hunter
I used it in a GM on strand titan with the boots and the lash. Was very nice getting woven mail all the time and having 3 ways to suspend things. Plus the seasonal stuff for strand weapons
As someone that loves exotic bows, I know these weapons shine in either solo content or gms. I'll never use Verglas, Hierarchy of Needs, Wishender etc. on everyday stuff, not even in raids/dungeons, yet I have a great Warlock build for each and every one of those
My biggest problem with bows is that alot of them just lives and dies if they have anti overload or barrier or not, hierarchy was an amazing bow to use last season with it being a better wish ender in basically all front, so the moment they made it anti barrier (because it looks exactly same as revision Zero, and they both dropped in the same season) it'll wreck havoc, and it does have some downside other than a primary that powercrept an exotic that was made to shoot barriers while giving you infinite ammo and more super energy
This bow is great for end game content for players that don't have good builds yet, want to take their time or just want the heat taken off them. Suspend is really strong and to have that on a weapon is great. This can make End game content a bit more accessible. The best part is that it charges on hit rather than on kill. This weapon screams Utility and Support
I mostly agree with Datto in it being a weaker generic pick BUT i think it really shines when you buildcraft with it. For example on warlock even though technically i can get "more" suspend out of necrotic grips and weavertrance in my GM testing yesterday I found that having a quick shackle grenade regen paired with the arrow gave me more ON DEMAND suspend which is much more practical for something like a GM. Also and i think datto alluded to this by saying min max but you really dont need to min max unless youre doing a farm for 8 hours or a speedrun. Also to state the obvious: quicksilverstorm cant stun unstoppables.
Old dude here. I had a rough go at this mission solo (at first) but it was really fun figuring everything out. Especially messing around with different loadouts, etc. Perfect honesty regarding the bow itself here Datto. There's so many other weapons that are fast and truly consistent when you want all-out damage. (This bow is not in that category) I think these types of weapons help with the fantasy side of things though. Tons of fun when you want it to be. Kinda wish it was like 25% faster to shoot. Definitely feels "soft" damage wise.
My only complaint with the mission is that there are no ralley banners in the first or second encounters, and in an activity with cyclops and wyverns, that feels pretty rough, I had to kill the first boss with an SMG and that's simply not fun. I know there weren't a ton of ralley banners in some other exotic missions, but you also didn't really need them in those, in seraph sheild you get ralley banners for he three brigs and a boss, as well as for the final boss, and an ammo box for the first boss. Here you have to kill four tanky phalynx, four yellow bar wyverns and a boss, then three more phalynx before you get a single ralley flag or ammo box I was using assassing cowl on arc and still found myself constantly short on ammo.
They made this exotic mission one thats made to solo for the aversge player , while the final boss seemed a little heavy on the damwge side but oberall it was fun! Loved visiting black garden, the rainbows were....encouraving and it felt way better than the deterministic chaos mission that was basically :do garden of salvation backwards"
Wish-Keeper feels like if Hierarchy of Needs and Verglas Curve tried to make a baby, but it didn't come out quite right. Wish-Keeper's snares are slow to charge, way too often (for me at least) fail to ensnare combatants, and while the web design is super cool, a snare can be ruined by a bad shot and/or uneven surfaces. Verglas can spawn Stasis crystals with any level of Hail Barrage and shattering the crystals it spawns can continue to feed stacks into Verglas. Hierarchy's Guidance Rings aren't as dependent on enemy location as much as the user's, and, like Verglas's Hail Barrage, can be easily chained after one is deployed. My initial armchair dev reaction would be to buff the duration and radius of the trap, which I believe are actually two of its catalysts, and make the snare faster to charge. Maybe killing suspended targets could grant additional stacks towards the snare, allowing a ramp up and keep the flow going style of gameplay that Verglas and Hierarchy enjoy. It feels so close to being a great PvE suspend based exotic weapon even after suspend received substantial nerfs a few seasons ago.
I tried it. Yes, it's not wish ender, but man it feels good, especially with a strand build. Just as you expected there will be some people to embrace the bow and make something out of it. And it does a really good job in my warlock build
Bows are just in a weird place I feel. They can be effective in some situations but lack ease of use and don't often get super strong results for the most part. Honestly feel sad we got this after the suspend nerf, would have been nice then. But yeah the catalysts don't seem too crazy to me unless they are pretty major boosts to those things. Vorpal would be neat if the thing you want to damage can also be suspended like champs but otherwise is not something you would use for damage anyway, longer lasting traps or suspending more doesn't seem to be something in big need of powering up, and hatchling remains a neat perk but doesn't add much to it outside possibly making gaining stacks for the shots faster. Hoping the further upgrades it gets at least make it feel better later. It could very much just be a matter of it not being fully complete yet with various other parts that could give it a leg up. But honestly unless you just really want a lot of suspends it is hard to compete with wish ender, le monarque, trinity ghoul, and ticu's when it comes to exotic bows for me right now.
My vengeful whisper with explosive head and precision instrument out performs this thing pretty consistently if I’m making unraveling rounds with orbs on strand lock. Especially considering its not using my exotic slot
I had little problem with the mission going solo until I got to the boss. If I'd been willing to grind it for what seemed like a long time, but my stomach wanted to be tended to, I would have beat it. Not very much cover. A lot of pretty strong splash damage. Kinda hard to avoid all the adds and all the huge hit box of the boss. I simply ran out of patience. Took about 10 minutes to do the whole thing with a fireteam.
I liked the mission a lot. I think it kept a good pace on introducing mechanics which were easy to understand while also integral to completing the encounters. Agree that the actual boss fight was a step down however. I feel like it's comparable to the early dungeons like Shattered Throne or Pit of Heresy.
I use the bow for making tangles and threadlings like a boss, use swarmers on your warlock and make your threadlings spawn tangles which in turn suspend and spawn more threadlings.
Dude, I've been since the very beginning. I did it solo, thought it was tough. It took me two days since I have a family and a job. All in all, I liked it Tough but doable solo
Played it on legendary with my arc hunter, cause mama didn’t raise no bitch. The boss at the end was by far the easiest portion. Sure, it hit like a truck when it actually hit me, but that only happened if I stood out in the open for too long or forgot to rebuff in the magic circle. One thing I can say though, for a fact, if I didn’t switch to using wish ender and a disorienting GL for the 3 chicken I would have painted my ceiling with my existence. Wyverns can eat my whole entire ass. I’ve not levelled it much yet, but I enjoyed it on my hunter (only class I played it on so far) with foetracer and the damage buffs stack nicely, finding a way to weave radiant onto you and/or weakening the enemies would make it feel even nicerer, but I’m also fond of bows and bow gameplay and like the cc gameplay loop in pave so I might just be an oddball
The title perfectly sums up how I feel about it. I love bows, especially the exotic ones, but this one just feels pretty underwhelming. I want to love it, but it just doesn't do enough damage to justify using it over something that actually synergizes with everything else I'm doing. Hatchling might be the missing "spice" that this bow needs, because the threadlings should adopt all of the properties of the bow. Meaning that the threadlings should gain the exotic damage bonus vs red bars and that they should gain the 50% damage bonus vs suspended targets.
I used to have a astro a50, but it broke every year. First time it was the basestation that broke, got a new headset from them. Wich also broke within a year, but this time it was the headphones it self. Everytime i took it off the basestation, wich said it was fully charged, it died after a minute and then needed to charge for 2 days to get 80% battery. Customer support said to do a hard reset, after that it would show a full battery again and that would stay for 10min to an hour and then it would died again. Never dropped it and always put it neatly on the base station. For the price you pay for a astro a50 that should not happen. And i never did again. Buy a razorblackshark pro
If you miss Season 20 suspend builds, then this exotic is great for you. If you are anyone else, it's just not it, it feels like. I've seen quite a few people using it in this week's GM, but I've only really noticed it being handy on the Tormentor. As a Stasis main who loves Verglas, but can never find a reason to use it, this bow gives me the same vibe. It feels too overdesigned, if that makes sense. The amount of game sense required to get optimal use out of either bow usually is a level high enough that you already know, or even have, an exotic that will do the job better, and simpler. For kinetic slow exotic bows, Wish Ender is a much simpler, more bang for your buck exotic. This exotic makes sense, and is a neat weapon, but it's more of a theme park gimmick functionality.
I made a solar build using this along with some unraveling rounds orb shenanigans with eremite and briars contempt / apex predator whatever I need at the moment and it’s good. Being able to take advantage of torch while solo and not having to worry about ammo is good it’s also a good GM bow seeing as this season it can take care of unstops and barriers because of suspend outside of that I haven’t found much usage. The solar builds are on warlock and hunter for anyone who cares to read all this hunter celestial and warlock sunbracers but I wanna try starfire because I like fusion grenades 😂
I feel like if they made it so you get a crit (or rather, what would be a crit if the shield didn't exist) on a shielded target it should proc crit based perks, it would make weapons like this more entertaining to use.
I think if it works the way I think it will hatchling might be pretty decent. If I'm correct I believe threadlings created by hatchling work the same as crystals created by headstone which should mean if you get a hatchling kill it should grant stacks to snare weaver
I think it's pretty clear they made this exotic mission easier because it's part of the story, they want most people to be able to complete it. I'm not a fan of it being part of the story but it's easy enough that it's fine. If Avalon was part of the story I'd be more concerned.
I want to like it, it looks and reads like it'd do a lot and feel great, but anything it can do, my build can already do, and often times having to force suspensions that aggressively just to get decent damage and draw time with it makes it too much of a hassle imo. Though, that's a big issue with Strand exotic weapons in general. Strand already can passively do so much of what it offers at base, getting mileage out those exotic weapons feels like more trouble than it's worth, or outright disruptive. Wish-Keeper? Bows in this sand box are way too inefficient for ad clear, and Suspend is already particularly easy to spec into. Navigator? You can already maintain high up time on Grapples, and only 10 seconds on Woven Mail and 7 on Sever means you're hot swapping a lot, leaving you vulnerable and not doing much damage while you try to actually use it. Final Warning? It's actually pretty strong on paper (one of the higher DPS primaries in the game actually), but as easy as Unraveling is to achieve and as fast paced as the subclass is, it feels extremely slow and clunky (in most groups, you aren't hitting what you lock onto, your team has already killed whatever it is). Quicksilver? Extremely strong and accurate, has better short term burst dps than special weapons, and has a high ease of use, however, even then, the Strand centric aspect of it is almost completely useless due to it sharing your base Tangle cooldown.
Imo the best way to make this bow better is, similar to trinity ghoul, make it so all strand kills grant stacks. It really bothers me how getting tangle kills or ability kills doesn’t give you stacks.
I think Hatchling will be the best option imo just the amount of unraveling rounds, hatchlings and strand disk flying around it’ll be fun support and ad clear
Personally i think one of the catalysts really shouldve been splice actually Granted a fragment that gains unraveling rounds is a good pick too But i also do think potential was missed in this exotic I also do feel like craftable exotic intrinsics need more benefit if you go full intrinsic towards the end than a stat boost in stability maybe let it unless a big power out of it if you get all four
I ran it solo going in and it was an absolute chore. There's no reason for the higher light level if this is a mission we absolutely have to do in the seasonal story quest.
Using this with verity’s for an all out suspend build. Could also go with a hybrid threadling/suspend with Swarmers. Can’t judge it as it is till I reduce the draw time and handling/reload. But it is executing the general idea of what I wanted to do with it very well
What I like about Verglas is the utility. This should have more, but the way it needs max charge is... I'm a bit mix on it. I like it, but *wish* it would work a bit more like Verglas
It's a really good support weapon but in a game where the best support is just doing more damage it's hard to justify using it over "number go up" weapons
It also just takes too long to build up when stuff like ticcus take 2 shots. This thing takes 6 headshots or 3 headshot kills to give a suspend effect worse than a suspend nade in size with a max enemy limitation. I have no idea what they were think with this.
even Ticuus has been power crept hard by things like quicksilver. Its always hard to justify unless you need the champion mod@@BronzeDragon0009
using this instead of dragon's breath is not worth it.
@@sopcannon totally different roles
@@yep9620nobody needs a CC role if you can oneshot everything.
Also you cannot CC bosses.
Champions have zero hp.
The crazy part is this is exactly what people were asking for in a strand bow at least anytime I saw strand bows mentioned, hopefully those people are happy
I am at least
i am very happy, and super excited to get hatchling on it
super happy. people are judging it before it even gets the buffs from catalysts and upgrades. and its already good enough.
@@vprocIndeed, when something comes out, people judge it regardless of how ready it is, as it is out.
Opinions can change if that's what you're worried about?
I'm one of those guys who wanted a strand bow, and this thing is baller. Exactly what I wanted
Idk why but the anarchy like string circle it makes is satisfying to me. Just looks cool.
It’s also cool that at every corner of the trap there’s an arrow
Reminds me of Jolyne's stand from Jojo's
It's very satisfying to me as well. Plus, it's hilarious to suspend a champ or major, watch them break free, to only get immediately suspended again
@@MattTheHuman9Tbh if so the entire Strand element reminds me of Stone Free though
@@ataraxia_warden6794 I agree, I feel like Bungie had to take some inspiration from it
*❝You probably won't be using a Bow❞*
*Wishender has entered the chat*
This bow to me is more for hunter. I don't see it being primarily used for Titan like that, but definitely a nice strong hunter build.
Bungo is nerfing the hell out of Wishender, you watch. They said they're nerfing it for sure, but guarantee they over-do it.
wishender is " him"
@@zaynashirlol wishender is strong on any class it kills red bar in one hit on gm. Wishender is crazy
@@Dynasty1818 They've literally never said they were nerfing Wish Ender, what are you on about??
This mission actually made me care about the story. I like small, contained stories like this with actual character. The whole "Witness ending the universe" is too broad and big to actually have any care for. The stakes don't always have to get higher to be engaging.
Yeah, that's what happens when they pissed away an expansion and 8 seasons not giving any character development to the main villain
Not to mention it prolly can't get higher than that, I mean, he is turning off the Universe, what is more threatening than that xD
IMO we need more focus on inter-connecting narratives. Many seasons have me asking: "Why should I care about this when the Witness is on our doorstep?"
@@Lorentz_Driver It's the opposite for me. The Witness storyline is irrelevant to me. We're gonna win, so I really don't see the point in caring.
The ahamkara, tough? They'll probably make it a happy ending, but they could just as easily make them permanently extinct or have some internal conflict in the vanguard with reviving the species as allies.
Exactly this was my favorite story in like 3 years
bow is heavily slept on, especially on subclasses like arc or void where u don’t have suspend, you can now pair suspend with crazy ability damage
Yeah looks like quite a few people are forgetting one of the most important rules of exotics, if it does specify a subclass it can be used on any subclass.
But what do you use for actual damage weapon-wise as this is a primary slot?
@@Dynasty1818I use Strand Warlock with Thread of Isolation and Continuity paired with a sniper with Triple Tap and Vorpal and Wish-Keeper. Absolutely melts big bois and the Severing adds extra prolonged damage. I have a lot of fun with the loadout
Bungie: *releases new exotic primary*
Datto: yeah but quicksilver storm
I can def see hatchling going crazy on this. Get a precision kill (2 charges), spawn threadling, threadling gets a kill (3 charges), you fully charge your snare after 2 kills instead of 3
Pair it with the Fragment that makes your Strand Weapon kills spawn a threadling, and you get two threadlings, constant suspend, constant Beyblades, and constant ability and/or Weapon damage boost when paired with Foetracers.
@@barstool9156 threadlings created by thread of rebirth don’t count as weapon damage/kills, they count as abilities
@@thefunny3320 dam.
Honestly all the catalysts seem really cool on this weapon. Really looking forward to see how they perform in the next weeks
It should have been a lightweight frame. Missed opportunity from Bungie imo. Still fun to use tho.
How much fun did you have cutting the background out of this image in Photoshop, scale of 1 - 100
he never responded👊😔
Personally as someone who’s least favorite weapon type is bows i’ve been really liking it on strand titan, i’ve been pairing it with 1-2 punch Grapple/Synthoceps
I took it into Solo Lake of Shadows GM and managed to clear it so i was pleasantly surprised with Wish Keeper I’m definitely in its target demographic, I’m up to 1200 kills on it
giving me the option of having suspend on Synth banner of war without needing to run shackle/leaps and thus keep Fray/Banner while being able to control the map is actuallybusted
My only complaint is they should have made precision kills count for 3 snareweavers instead of 2, because needing 6heads or 3 kills gets a little annoying because it takes so long, so hopefully with hatchling the threadling procs snareweaver as that would midi gate this issue
Also timegating the catalyst is massive L, we’ve been through this with Revision and Vexcalibur already its getting old waiting weeks just to add 10 stability to a gun
Can confirm. This mission was a beast to do solo. I also don't do much build crafting but tried my best with making one. Took me a bit but it was rewarding to beat!
Glad you got through it! Was definitely a fun solo experience
Yes I think they nailed it with the difficulty and puzzle solving on this one. Perfect solo challenge for me as well.
I ripped through the mission on solo with no problems whatsoever. Playing Legendary solo is a different story. Tanky shields on most enemies and snipers everywhere. Took me almost 2 hours to finish it. Shit is no joke man.
I was using GM builds on warlock. I have not completed it yet.
@@thereaper1683tbf GM builds are sort of different than builds for this kind of stuff or dungeons, just due to design. At least that’s my experience.
I’ve been adamant that the additional perk options are going to make a much bigger impact on this now than the catalyst options. I think that part of the reason why it’s not clicking so much right now is because of that 684 draw time which can make any bow feel sluggish when it’s not either getting a huge draw time reduction like hush or even hierarchy of needs, or absolutely trucking dudes like wish-ender, which wish-keeper currently only fires a bit faster than. Draw string perks will be major and we should be getting them next week with the next level of the intrinsic, and then the arrow perks will also make things much nicer when you can get compact arrow shaft for the increased reload speed. When this thing is firing at 612, or at 576 (presumably) when you suspend, it’s going to be a lot snappier and satisfying because you’ll be able to dish out more damage buffed arrows much more quickly.
I’m also a strand main and a bow main, so this was basically like Christmas for me and I know I’m going to be putting a lot of kills on it in every level of content.
I will say that the ability to build charges w/ out kills on Wish Keeper is a step up on Veriglass since in high end content you won't be building your quiver as easily and that bow actively punishes you for not using the bow to break the Crystals
Verglas beats this thing imo since it has built in rending which stacks with actual rending so you can one tap enemies in GMs with it
You do make a good point about it building charges with out kills it’ll be pretty okay for gms since it gets suspending
Verglas does much more damage and in area, ofc It will only charge from kills with how much It does lmao
Either way, both bows you have to proc and that sucks. In the vault you go
@@lukatosic09 GMs aren't about one shotting enemies. especially not for something like a bow that's gnerally bad at dealing with multiple targets and isnt worth it for single target unless its an exotic. This bow is better because wiith the right buiild it still does pretty decent single target damage, BUT the ability to suspend non stop in GMs is a no brainer and automatically makes this better than verglass.
Have to remember that Datto doesn't like using bows or sidearms. But he's not wrong about the feel of the bow. It just needs a unraveling as an intrisic.
CC is only really useful on specific enemy types like, Tormentors and Wyverns for ease of access to their crit spots. This bow receiving extra damage and dps on suspend reinforces this since it'll allow for decent primary ammo damage on those situations.
I think the most understated part of this is the ability to use suspend on non strand classes. Really fun to use on something like voidlock that doesn't have CC abilities compared to other classes
I really like it, my only issue being the thing you mentioned about the speed of combat vs the speed of this bow. My faster bows are already not great for some situations and while I tend to sit in the space between playing casually and slightly more optimally, its still just really slow. I do love that it provides a strong way to get suspend for non-strand classes, similar to verglas curve with stasis, that is really neat. Hoping for some more draw speed or less total charges required in the future, otherwise it's a fun bow for relaxed content and showing off to my friends who don't play much.
I think it’ll get buffed, bungie seems to have adopted the mindset of releasing stuff in a mild state and buffing later, realistically if there’s something powerful with a weapon players would find it way easier than play testers
Lol they're even underdelivering on exotics
@@bofa722i mean it will get buffed anyways thanks to player's feedback so i ain't complaining
meanwhile Hierarchy of Needs is still crying quietly in a corner (great weapon but man buff it please)
@@bofa722i’d rather underdeliverance than stasis beyond light. overtuned and broken as fuck
@@bofa722 can y’all just stop for a little bit. Please just SHUT UP
Been looking forward to this mostly to stack the bonus damage to suspended targets with Oathkeepers. I have a similar setup with Verglas and that stasis fragment - just a different flavor
I hadn't thought of using Oathkeepers with this. Damn, now I have to actually play my Hunter. Son of a bitch.
I think the problem with this bow is that the charge and effect are on opposites sides of the spectrum difficulty wise. In low tier content, it's easy to charge by getting kills, but you don't need suspend, because ads are gonna fall over immediately. In higher tier content, getting use out of the effect is great, but now takes 6 head shots on a slow draw time bow to activate, mid tier is the only place I can see use out of this, but is overshadowed by more high pace builds that this bow just can't keep up with.
I know people are comparing this to verglass curve and how VC is better but I just don't understand that.
Wishkeeper hits harder because it is a Precision frame. You'll also be able to reduce the draw time and make it a stat monster once it's fully upgraded. And you get a 50% damage bonus when an enemy is suspended and you have a faster draw time when you suspend enemies.
It makes it very similar to how VC works but it's Strand and it's suspends and it's a better damage dealing bow.
Plus it's the best looking bow in the game
I actually used this thing on my strand hunter build when doing 2 man GM's the same day. The crowd control was def nice to have when it came to the suspend capabilities, while also allowing myself to keep my Grapple Grenade.
The bow seems cool and given how the other exotic bows are it's not too surprising they leaned into crowd control/ aoe for the new strand exotic bow, given how most exotic bows have some form of explosion built in and those are colour coded for each element. Honestly though while the aoe suspend is flashy and nice, I was hoping that when we did get a strand bow it'd have an ability to shoot grapples somehow, like an alt fire maybe to grapple over to where you shoot, or using hipfire again for the effect. Verglass Curve has good aoe with it's freezing and shatter damage and suspend is probably the closer comparison, but the fact it's such an easy way to make crystals on a weapon and all the "not just damage" applications those have is what really makes the bow feel fun imo, and grapple is probably strand's stasis crystal in that respect.
Would’ve been cooler if it fired cursor guided arrows that create suspending explosions either on kill or some other requirement, maybe give it a gimmick where the arrows have bigger hitboxes so you can grapple it, then you can make yourself or teammates fly off of it while it’s going
I'm using it right now for gm's on hunter with bow gauntlets and double suspend nades. It's the new infinite suspend on hunter and the slow playstyle fits well with gm content
What could be interesting with hatchling is if the hatchling gets a kill it gives a charge
I'm hoping the hatchlings inherit the +50% damage on suspended targets.
@@Flecco it should based on all other damage inheritance in the game. To the point it would either be a bug or a deliberate descision not to if it wasnt.
This is basically my bow for Strand warlock during GMs. The infinite suspend as well as being able to bank a get out of jail free card. I know specifically in the glassway boss room using this to hold that choke point is gonna be fun. Also Vorpal is my clear pick, free 20% dmg buff.
Quicksilver is better. This bow is cope
@@TargetSniper365 ok man
@@TargetSniper365who cares?
Maybe once it's fully crafted it'll be viable for GMs but there's no way anyone can say this bow in it's current state is good for GMs over Quicksilver or Wishender
@@Spitfyre1011 casual
5:39 timestamp to weapon review to skip spoilers
I saw someone call Wish-Keeper "Stringity Ghoul" once
All I got from this was "I don't like the bow that much so you shouldn't either"
This bow reminds me a lot more of Hierarchy of Needs than Verglas Curve. It's got similar rules for stacking up the charges and features a deployable that augments the weapon. Both also seem to suffer from the same issue of relative slowness.
One of the catalysts should’ve been to cause targets to explode like tangles when they are suspended and killed by the bow, and those kills counting towards your next suspend arrow. That would’ve been a really fun gameplay loop and would’ve added some nice AEO damage which I think is this bows missing ingredient🤙
This was my exact thought while watching the video. It would play into the same loop as Verglas Curve, especially if they proc'd unravel too.
See…now that’s what I mean when it comes to exos in the game that seem a little underwhelming (1 change could genuinely make this bow be a great contender for something comparable to wish-ender regarding its catalyst)
Another day, another Datto vid. Always a good time. Even tho I don't own the season, I still love watching all the vids.
Non-spoilery weapon review at 5:37
Wish Ender Gang stays eating
Your commentary about Vorpal were much simplification of the strength of Vorpal, "I am not using it for boss damage ever". You know very well what "boss" means to Vorpal Weapon!
It'll probably feel faster on a Warlock once you get Hatchling, and cause Keyword Soup.
Obviously needs to be tested, but Hatchling threadlings count as weapon damage (they can proc perks like Subsistence), which might help you build the suspend arrows faster.
With Hatchling, Thread of Rebirth, that threadling artifact perk, and Swarmers, you spawn a metric ton of Threadlings, and they all apply Unravel to their impacted victims.
This can causes threadlings/unravel chain reactions. I actually made use of this on using the Dungeon bow during the mission itself.
With Wishkeeper, this gives warlock access to all three Suspend, Unravel, and Threadlings without even considering your abilities or other weapons, possibly at an elivated rate.
Again, needs to be tested.. but god damn I hope it works.
"The best crowd control is a dead enemy."
-Datto
That should be in those Call of Duty death screen quotes.
I had A50's and my experience was not so good so hopefully the X's fix some of those issues. The first thing to crap the bed was the docking bay then the headset couldnt hold a charge. it would be charging all night, wake up unplug it and it would say battery low. This was all within 1.5 years of purchase.
I think a great way to buff this weapon is make each stack of the perk able to play a trap, with each stack increasing the traps set with a max of six. This way you get more use out of the weapon trait, and also gets more overall synergy with Strand in general.
Also making it not a hipfire shot, but one you have to hold a button to activate. I hate accidentally using it because an enemy rushed me and my muscle memory took over and wasted the trap.
If you ignore all the drama and all that fun stuff happening at bungie, this season is actually kinda fun, stories pretty decent, gameplay loop with coil is consistent with loot and how you play. Excited to see what “wishes” are later on but y’all this seasons not bad all things considered.
Me personally, I love the bow and I am very excited to see what can be done with it once the Catalyst is available
for me the main draw is just giving suspend access to every subclass, not that you need it at all with how powerful builds can be but it's another fun thing in the toolbox. i should note im a huge bow fan and a hierarchy of needs truther so take that as you will lol
I believe the easiest way to make this bow better is to make it get charges faster and do more damage to suspended targets. Also add something for bosses like also doing more damage to unravled targets or severed.
i feel it’s literally to have suspend on a non strand set up.
@datto
I have a build suggestion that helped me main this bow:
Strand Titan / Wormgod exotic arms / Strand surge x3 + whatever armor charge perks you like to get orbs.
At max Wormgod and surge I was doing 40k to red bars without suspension. Yellow bars are still an issue but suspension does increase the damage output enough to be passing.
This still can't do much in end game content, but the suspension utility does open up your options for champions.
I still hope to get more from this bow, but for now this build helps with its deficit in damage output.
It's an incredible support weapon that does it's job really well.
the bow definitely needed Archer’s Tempo or a damage perk like Precision Instrument in its catalyst list
The definition of Warlock is get the things done with no rush.
Using Vorpal Weapon when available, it will increase damage 20% against Miniboss, Boss and Vehicle.
The end game activity can have Strand surge modifier.
You can use 3x weapon surge mod.
You can use it with Necrotic Grip to help with crowd control.
Specing into the bows perks on titan with abeyant and some non traditional fragments, along with the artifact mods, made this really satisfying and almost addicting to use, at least for me
The comparison is keep making in my mind is it’s Verglas Curve, but Strand
However: something unique that CoolGuy pointed out:
Against suspended targets, with Wish-Keeper, body shots and head shots do the same damage, however bodyshots against suspended targets won’t count unless they’re kills
I understand what you have said about how the mission ended with the boss, and having that mission baked into the story. However, I am not sure it really matters. As a very casual player, I pretty much have given up on the story at step 18 where I am being forces into the Coil. This seems to be Bungie trying to force players to use the fireteam finder, which I really have no interest in. And form the looks of Coil, I won't be trying to run all the way through solo. It is too bad, but since I was not playing during the the original wish dragon story, I really don't care that much about this wish dragon story. The final shape will land in any case, and I'll try and pick it all up at that point. Maybe in another season down the road I'll buy that bow at the Kiosk. Or not. Maybe if I had a good finder experience looking through it I'd be more up beat about it.
I’ve been running Wish-keeper with my Threadling Warlock build. Being able to have free suspending for my threadlings tomato AI to actually hit their target helps a ton.
A funny thought I had was teaching bungie to play MTG because that game teaches the ebb and flow of balance of control versus damage pretty well I think.
I think it's an amazing weapon for heavy suspend builds, I put together a suspension build on my hunter with foe tracer and that bow does work in the GM. I was critting 58k shots on suspended enemies and it was doing well. I do think wish ender and solar builds are better at the moment, but when the catalyst drops for that bow I believe the catalyst will give it that boost to bring it up to the level of competing. But it's not bad as is right now, heavy support weapon at the moment
I was hoping that you'd string enemies up and then shooting a stung up enemy, you'd basically be shooting a tangle in that you'd be causing major damage to all nearby suspension targets. That could have also lead up into making a suspension build connects with the bow in where it'd maybe keep chaining to all suspended targets. However, that could be a bit much and maybe just keep the major damage to the trap area.
It could be very helpful in some raid encounters/challenges. Like final fight of VoG or low man VOW first encounter
You would never take such a slow, low damage weapon in low mans. If you ever use an exotic primary in low mans, it's gonna clear adds in a large area in one swoop without having to shoot each enemy individually. E.g. Sunshot, Osteo, Trinity Ghoul are common picks, this bow will never compete with those.
What would have pushed this bow IMMEDIATELY into the meta would be if it had the ability to suspend enemies that currently can't be suspended i.e. bosses, tanks, etc.
I spent two hours with it. Changed my whole strand build as a warlock. Keep THE BOOTS ON. OUT THAT TANGLE ASPECT THINGY ON. CHANGE THE FRAGS TO SUSPEND. PLAY WITH THE ARTIFACT. AND THEN TOU CONSUME YOUSHACKLE GRENADE!! She hits harder than the Curve. I need to get the catalyst for say I love it.
its pretty good,, i use it on a titan suspend build. but realistically the best way to play destiny is to do the most damage as possible, melee strand titan will always be better than a suspend titan build as it kills enemies, instead of just keeping enemies still for a few seconds
I think it's strength will come from builds that don't already have suspend getting suspend, especially strand setups, like using whirling maelstrom and threaded specter on hunter
I used it in a GM on strand titan with the boots and the lash. Was very nice getting woven mail all the time and having 3 ways to suspend things. Plus the seasonal stuff for strand weapons
As someone that loves exotic bows, I know these weapons shine in either solo content or gms.
I'll never use Verglas, Hierarchy of Needs, Wishender etc. on everyday stuff, not even in raids/dungeons, yet I have a great Warlock build for each and every one of those
My biggest problem with bows is that alot of them just lives and dies if they have anti overload or barrier or not, hierarchy was an amazing bow to use last season with it being a better wish ender in basically all front, so the moment they made it anti barrier (because it looks exactly same as revision Zero, and they both dropped in the same season) it'll wreck havoc, and it does have some downside other than a primary that powercrept an exotic that was made to shoot barriers while giving you infinite ammo and more super energy
Love ya dude, great video. Merry Chrimbus, Happy Hanukoh
This bow is great for end game content for players that don't have good builds yet, want to take their time or just want the heat taken off them. Suspend is really strong and to have that on a weapon is great. This can make End game content a bit more accessible. The best part is that it charges on hit rather than on kill. This weapon screams Utility and Support
I mostly agree with Datto in it being a weaker generic pick BUT i think it really shines when you buildcraft with it. For example on warlock even though technically i can get "more" suspend out of necrotic grips and weavertrance in my GM testing yesterday I found that having a quick shackle grenade regen paired with the arrow gave me more ON DEMAND suspend which is much more practical for something like a GM. Also and i think datto alluded to this by saying min max but you really dont need to min max unless youre doing a farm for 8 hours or a speedrun. Also to state the obvious: quicksilverstorm cant stun unstoppables.
"The best crowd control is a dead enemy." -Datto
Btw when an enemy is suspended you will ALWAYS deal a crit with bonus damage, no matter where you shoot them
Old dude here. I had a rough go at this mission solo (at first) but it was really fun figuring everything out. Especially messing around with different loadouts, etc. Perfect honesty regarding the bow itself here Datto. There's so many other weapons that are fast and truly consistent when you want all-out damage. (This bow is not in that category) I think these types of weapons help with the fantasy side of things though. Tons of fun when you want it to be. Kinda wish it was like 25% faster to shoot. Definitely feels "soft" damage wise.
My only complaint with the mission is that there are no ralley banners in the first or second encounters, and in an activity with cyclops and wyverns, that feels pretty rough, I had to kill the first boss with an SMG and that's simply not fun. I know there weren't a ton of ralley banners in some other exotic missions, but you also didn't really need them in those, in seraph sheild you get ralley banners for he three brigs and a boss, as well as for the final boss, and an ammo box for the first boss. Here you have to kill four tanky phalynx, four yellow bar wyverns and a boss, then three more phalynx before you get a single ralley flag or ammo box I was using assassing cowl on arc and still found myself constantly short on ammo.
They made this exotic mission one thats made to solo for the aversge player , while the final boss seemed a little heavy on the damwge side but oberall it was fun! Loved visiting black garden, the rainbows were....encouraving and it felt way better than the deterministic chaos mission that was basically :do garden of salvation backwards"
Wish-Keeper feels like if Hierarchy of Needs and Verglas Curve tried to make a baby, but it didn't come out quite right. Wish-Keeper's snares are slow to charge, way too often (for me at least) fail to ensnare combatants, and while the web design is super cool, a snare can be ruined by a bad shot and/or uneven surfaces. Verglas can spawn Stasis crystals with any level of Hail Barrage and shattering the crystals it spawns can continue to feed stacks into Verglas. Hierarchy's Guidance Rings aren't as dependent on enemy location as much as the user's, and, like Verglas's Hail Barrage, can be easily chained after one is deployed. My initial armchair dev reaction would be to buff the duration and radius of the trap, which I believe are actually two of its catalysts, and make the snare faster to charge. Maybe killing suspended targets could grant additional stacks towards the snare, allowing a ramp up and keep the flow going style of gameplay that Verglas and Hierarchy enjoy. It feels so close to being a great PvE suspend based exotic weapon even after suspend received substantial nerfs a few seasons ago.
I tried it. Yes, it's not wish ender, but man it feels good, especially with a strand build. Just as you expected there will be some people to embrace the bow and make something out of it. And it does a really good job in my warlock build
Quick silver is just so dang fun it’s hard for me to take it off
Bows are just in a weird place I feel. They can be effective in some situations but lack ease of use and don't often get super strong results for the most part. Honestly feel sad we got this after the suspend nerf, would have been nice then. But yeah the catalysts don't seem too crazy to me unless they are pretty major boosts to those things. Vorpal would be neat if the thing you want to damage can also be suspended like champs but otherwise is not something you would use for damage anyway, longer lasting traps or suspending more doesn't seem to be something in big need of powering up, and hatchling remains a neat perk but doesn't add much to it outside possibly making gaining stacks for the shots faster.
Hoping the further upgrades it gets at least make it feel better later. It could very much just be a matter of it not being fully complete yet with various other parts that could give it a leg up. But honestly unless you just really want a lot of suspends it is hard to compete with wish ender, le monarque, trinity ghoul, and ticu's when it comes to exotic bows for me right now.
My vengeful whisper with explosive head and precision instrument out performs this thing pretty consistently if I’m making unraveling rounds with orbs on strand lock. Especially considering its not using my exotic slot
I had little problem with the mission going solo until I got to the boss. If I'd been willing to grind it for what seemed like a long time, but my stomach wanted to be tended to, I would have beat it. Not very much cover. A lot of pretty strong splash damage. Kinda hard to avoid all the adds and all the huge hit box of the boss. I simply ran out of patience. Took about 10 minutes to do the whole thing with a fireteam.
I liked the mission a lot. I think it kept a good pace on introducing mechanics which were easy to understand while also integral to completing the encounters. Agree that the actual boss fight was a step down however. I feel like it's comparable to the early dungeons like Shattered Throne or Pit of Heresy.
Once its fully crafted, having draw time/reload perks and hatchling is gonna make it go insane on my hybrid threadling/suspend warlock build.
I use the bow for making tangles and threadlings like a boss, use swarmers on your warlock and make your threadlings spawn tangles which in turn suspend and spawn more threadlings.
Ive honestly been enjoying this weapon on my threadling warlock. Suspend, pop a couple of suspended enemies, and threadlings blow up the others
Dude, I've been since the very beginning. I did it solo, thought it was tough. It took me two days since I have a family and a job. All in all, I liked it
Tough but doable solo
The Ahamkara love story was something I didn’t know I wanted
Played it on legendary with my arc hunter, cause mama didn’t raise no bitch.
The boss at the end was by far the easiest portion. Sure, it hit like a truck when it actually hit me, but that only happened if I stood out in the open for too long or forgot to rebuff in the magic circle.
One thing I can say though, for a fact, if I didn’t switch to using wish ender and a disorienting GL for the 3 chicken I would have painted my ceiling with my existence. Wyverns can eat my whole entire ass.
I’ve not levelled it much yet, but I enjoyed it on my hunter (only class I played it on so far) with foetracer and the damage buffs stack nicely, finding a way to weave radiant onto you and/or weakening the enemies would make it feel even nicerer, but I’m also fond of bows and bow gameplay and like the cc gameplay loop in pave so I might just be an oddball
The title perfectly sums up how I feel about it. I love bows, especially the exotic ones, but this one just feels pretty underwhelming. I want to love it, but it just doesn't do enough damage to justify using it over something that actually synergizes with everything else I'm doing. Hatchling might be the missing "spice" that this bow needs, because the threadlings should adopt all of the properties of the bow. Meaning that the threadlings should gain the exotic damage bonus vs red bars and that they should gain the 50% damage bonus vs suspended targets.
I used to have a astro a50, but it broke every year. First time it was the basestation that broke, got a new headset from them. Wich also broke within a year, but this time it was the headphones it self. Everytime i took it off the basestation, wich said it was fully charged, it died after a minute and then needed to charge for 2 days to get 80% battery. Customer support said to do a hard reset, after that it would show a full battery again and that would stay for 10min to an hour and then it would died again. Never dropped it and always put it neatly on the base station. For the price you pay for a astro a50 that should not happen. And i never did again. Buy a razorblackshark pro
If you miss Season 20 suspend builds, then this exotic is great for you. If you are anyone else, it's just not it, it feels like. I've seen quite a few people using it in this week's GM, but I've only really noticed it being handy on the Tormentor. As a Stasis main who loves Verglas, but can never find a reason to use it, this bow gives me the same vibe. It feels too overdesigned, if that makes sense. The amount of game sense required to get optimal use out of either bow usually is a level high enough that you already know, or even have, an exotic that will do the job better, and simpler. For kinetic slow exotic bows, Wish Ender is a much simpler, more bang for your buck exotic. This exotic makes sense, and is a neat weapon, but it's more of a theme park gimmick functionality.
I made a solar build using this along with some unraveling rounds orb shenanigans with eremite and briars contempt / apex predator whatever I need at the moment and it’s good. Being able to take advantage of torch while solo and not having to worry about ammo is good it’s also a good GM bow seeing as this season it can take care of unstops and barriers because of suspend outside of that I haven’t found much usage. The solar builds are on warlock and hunter for anyone who cares to read all this hunter celestial and warlock sunbracers but I wanna try starfire because I like fusion grenades 😂
I feel like if they made it so you get a crit (or rather, what would be a crit if the shield didn't exist) on a shielded target it should proc crit based perks, it would make weapons like this more entertaining to use.
With the A50X, are you able to get both a console and the pc audio come through at the same time, or only the one that is selected?
I think if it works the way I think it will hatchling might be pretty decent. If I'm correct I believe threadlings created by hatchling work the same as crystals created by headstone which should mean if you get a hatchling kill it should grant stacks to snare weaver
I think it's pretty clear they made this exotic mission easier because it's part of the story, they want most people to be able to complete it. I'm not a fan of it being part of the story but it's easy enough that it's fine. If Avalon was part of the story I'd be more concerned.
A great way to make this bow genuinely great is to make it gain charges or have a chance when an add gets suspended by the bow
I want to like it, it looks and reads like it'd do a lot and feel great, but anything it can do, my build can already do, and often times having to force suspensions that aggressively just to get decent damage and draw time with it makes it too much of a hassle imo.
Though, that's a big issue with Strand exotic weapons in general. Strand already can passively do so much of what it offers at base, getting mileage out those exotic weapons feels like more trouble than it's worth, or outright disruptive.
Wish-Keeper? Bows in this sand box are way too inefficient for ad clear, and Suspend is already particularly easy to spec into. Navigator? You can already maintain high up time on Grapples, and only 10 seconds on Woven Mail and 7 on Sever means you're hot swapping a lot, leaving you vulnerable and not doing much damage while you try to actually use it. Final Warning? It's actually pretty strong on paper (one of the higher DPS primaries in the game actually), but as easy as Unraveling is to achieve and as fast paced as the subclass is, it feels extremely slow and clunky (in most groups, you aren't hitting what you lock onto, your team has already killed whatever it is). Quicksilver? Extremely strong and accurate, has better short term burst dps than special weapons, and has a high ease of use, however, even then, the Strand centric aspect of it is almost completely useless due to it sharing your base Tangle cooldown.
Imo the best way to make this bow better is, similar to trinity ghoul, make it so all strand kills grant stacks. It really bothers me how getting tangle kills or ability kills doesn’t give you stacks.
I think Hatchling will be the best option imo just the amount of unraveling rounds, hatchlings and strand disk flying around it’ll be fun support and ad clear
Personally i think one of the catalysts really shouldve been splice actually
Granted a fragment that gains unraveling rounds is a good pick too
But i also do think potential was missed in this exotic
I also do feel like craftable exotic intrinsics need more benefit if you go full intrinsic towards the end than a stat boost in stability maybe let it unless a big power out of it if you get all four
I ran it solo going in and it was an absolute chore.
There's no reason for the higher light level if this is a mission we absolutely have to do in the seasonal story quest.
Using this with verity’s for an all out suspend build. Could also go with a hybrid threadling/suspend with Swarmers. Can’t judge it as it is till I reduce the draw time and handling/reload. But it is executing the general idea of what I wanted to do with it very well
What I like about Verglas is the utility. This should have more, but the way it needs max charge is... I'm a bit mix on it.
I like it, but *wish* it would work a bit more like Verglas
Title should be: "I wish I wished to use Wish-Keeper more than I wish to right now."