Maxing Out The CCS Connector At 500 Amps! Mercedes EQS 450+ 0-100% Charging Curve Full Analysis
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 มี.ค. 2022
- Kyle is at an EVgo station in Denver, Colorado where he performs our usual 0-100% DC Fast Charging curve analysis of the Mercedes EQS 450+ with the 107.8kWh battery pack. Join him as he walks you through the testing procedures, shows the testing data, and then analyzes the charging curves at the end.
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#Mercedes #EQS #Charging
SoC|kW Charger | kW to Battery
0 1 0
1 31 16
2 190 178
3 186 185
4 192 188
5 187 189
6 196 185
7 195 190
8 196 191
9 191 188
10 188 185
11 197 192
12 197 193
13 193 190
14 191 187
15 199 192
16 199 194
17 200 194
18 196 192
19 195 191
20 191 188
21 189 186
22 201 195
23 201 196
24 199 195
25 197 192
26 194 191
27 192 188
28 188 185
29 202 197
30 202 198
31 199 196
32 194 191
33 190 187
34 185 183
35 183 -
36 180 -
37 177 177
38 181 179
39 179 177
40 179 176
41 178 175
42 175 173
43 171 170
44 168 167
45 172 171
46 168 167
47 167 167
48 166 165
49 161 159
50 163 162
51 161 159
52 158 158
53 157 156
54 155 -
55 152 151
56 151 150
57 149 147
58 146 147
59 145 145
60 144 142
61 141 141
62 138 138
63 137 137
64 135 135
65 132 133
66 131 131
67 128 129
68 127 127
69 126 126
70 124 124
71 123 123
72 122 122
73 121 121
74 120 120
75 118 118
76 115 116
77 114 115
78 111 111
79 102 103
80 96 97
81 88 89
82 81 83
83 75 77
84 68 69
85 61 62
86 56 57
87 50 52
88 47 48
89 43 45
90 40 40
91 37 38
92 34 35
93 31 33
94 28 29
95 24 26
96 21 22
97 17 17
98 12 12
99 7 7.5
100 0 0 - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
![ตัวอย่างภาพยนตร์ Venom: The Last Dance [Official - Sub Thai]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DHPjvAwmnRE/mqdefault.jpg)
Kyle - the dedication you've pour into helping your audience understand the variables of electric vehicle care & feeding is absolutely awesome! Thank you. 👍👍
You know you're a real EV Baller when you watch a 30 minute video about the charging curve of a car you would never buy.
Yep. I geeked out to this too much.
I’d never buy most of the cars reviewed on this channel, but I’ll watch ever video posted by Kyle. Always keep learning!
Ordering an XC40 recharge. Not very efficient, but other aspects of it override that short coming.
You and bjørn seem to be the only TH-camrs understanding ev's
The artificial 350A hasn’t really been an issue until now but I’m glad you’re covering this.
Yep, this, the new BMWs and the Rivian R1T are the only shipping cars that are 400V > 350A. All other "greater than 150kW" cars are 800V, so 350A is fine. It would be nice if the "350 kW" showed their 800A and 400A ratings separately.
@@AnonymousFreakYT you’re forgetting the BMW iX and i4 and Teslas with CCS adapter
@@brandenflasch /me whistles innocently and pretends I didn't edit my comment mere seconds before your reply to add BMW.
:-D
As for Tesla - we don't know for sure what it'll support. The Korean-officially-supported CCS1 adapter only supports ~300A and a third-party CCS1 adapter only supports ~400A. Hopefully the official US-official Tesla CCS1 adapter (when they release it) supports the full 500A.
@@AnonymousFreakYT EVHub allows full power - “Rated for 400A(allowed up to 600A peaks at 5-40%SoC) 400V making it 160kW”
Nerds!!! Man, I absolutely love geeking out on charging tech. The weird technology quirks of DC fast charging is something no one but Out of Spec is talking about. Thank you!
Motion lights can be embarrassing. Walk into the office bathroom and the lights come on then you hear some poor sap in a stall who had been pooping in the dark.
We appreciate all your hard work Kyle. 👍
10:20 You mentioned there might be 500 amp units in Canada. The label on a Petro-Canada BTCPower 350 kW rated unit, Dorchester Ontario: Model EVDSP-350-5-120 Output: 200-950 VDC 350 A Max. Installed in 2019. Electrify Canada seems to be the only other network installing 350 kW in Ontario. Perhaps new installs are 1000 volts /500amp .
The spec from BTCPower website: for dispensers hooked-up to two 200kW power cabinets connected in parallel to add up
power output from both units)
Max. Out DC Current up to 920 VDC 432 Amp
Max. Out DC Current up to 500 VDC 500 Amp
Now I know more than I want too..
The Petro Canada station near me in BC is also limited to 350A.
Great job Kyle
Thanks for the Video Kyle. Great Data, great curve.
Great video Kyle everything explained very well big 👍up
Great job Kyle. You’re the best on TH-cam! I always watch your complete videos, so informative.
Really like these videos, with the graph is awesome! Great job!
Love the detail. Please keep it up!
This is why I love watching your channel. Thank you for the detail. Your hard work behind the scenes is much appreciated.
Are you planning another Cannonball? If so, what car do you want to use next?
Thanks for the hard work Kyle!
9:26 If the labels are correct, they should be able to output 500 A. Essentially, any 350 kW charger that is functioning properly should be able to provide 500 A for a 400 V car. Unfortunately, it sounds like not all of them are functioning well, so that could be an issue. It's also worth noting that some "200 kW" units can also provide close to 500 A if they have the additional charging module (such as the BTC Power units with 4 charging modules).
No. A charger limited to a 350A cable can still be called a 350kw charger if it goes up to 1000V, because then it can technically still deliver 350kw even though it realistically never will.
@@b127_1 That is not correct. To be listed as a "350 kW" charger, it must have enough modules (typically 6) to provide 350+ A at 920+ V. That means that, when operating at
@@newscoulomb3705 Yes, but if the charge point operator buys a cheaper cable that cannot handle more than 350A, then that's all you're going to get.
@@b127_1 The liquid-cooled Huber + Suhner CCS cables that are used on every 350 kW charger by every charging provider in the United States are all rated for 500 A.
350A chargers being considered 350kW chargers like the 500A chargers is a pet peeve of mine. Just like Chargepoint’s CPE250 chargers that are marketed as 125kW but only output 200A, it’s misleading.
We need a more transparent power rating for chargers. At the very least I’d like to see separate 450V and 900V ratings. So the Chargepoint is now a 90/125kW charger, the 350A chargers are now 155/315kW chargers and 500A chargers are 225kW/350kW chargers.
If you have a broad spectrum of voltage on DC-side for example 200-1000V DC its most likely the peak power will hit around 700-800V and that means half power at 350-400V range because the current is usually constant. This just the way it works.
To achieve top power regardless of voltage you need a charger with opposite linear current curve. This is maybe possible but would be very expensive and thermal issues at low voltage due to very high current. You could say a DC-fast charger works like a NA engine, constant torque and the power builds up higher in the rev range, before the redline torque falls down, exactly the same in the DC-chargers.
We should start rating and/or refering DCFC stations based on their peak current output rather than peak power. In the earlier days, 50 kW DCFCs were either 100A or 125A, which was very confusing.
Sadly, given how almost all cars show their charge rate based on kW, it's unlikely that my suggestion will catch on outside of the EV nerds.
The biggest inconsistency is EA labeling their 350A chargers at the 400V rating, calling them "150 kW" chargers. Then they use the 800V rating for their 500A chargers, calling them "350 kW" chargers. Pick one base voltage, and use that for the labeling!
The best would be to just label them based on max current/voltage. Gas pumps have clear octane labels, don't they? Why can't we have something similar for DCFC?
Love this technical stuff.
Kyle, your videos have dramatically expanded my knowledge of EV purchase and charging criteria. The charging curve, charger voltage and amperage, the ongoing challenge of finding a decent non-Tesla charging station on a road trip... and of course the capacity and max charging rate of the EV itself. There is definitely a business in aggregating and rating all charging stations nationally on a real time basis, providing those granular voltage/amperage stats you mention in this video... Here in CT, tho plenty of Telsa Superchargers, there's a paucity of EA and CP locations. I have no doubt this will change over time. Thanks again!
So thorough. Thanks this is very helpful.
A really useful real-case tutorial, thanks 👍
(and some classy background car & landscape video too, beautiful scenery)
Great video.
At first glance looking at my feed I thought that MB was a Honda Civic. I was like, there is an EV Honda Civic??!! Lol.
Lots of really good work Kyle. Interesting. I hadn’t realised the limitations of certain chargers. I would be interested to see how a 350kw Ionity works with the 450+. Ionity is coupled with Mercedes’ in the Uk and EU, offering owners free charging for the first 12 months
Thank you, I’m a new owner of an EQS.
The range on this thing is so good you won't have to charge much or that long anyways. Great road tripper from what your range test showed. Once I'm over my model 3 LR I'm going to take a serious look at this thing (or other MB EVs)...then I'll need to crunch the numbers and see if I can afford it.
I recently rented a Polestar 2 just to see what living with an EV would be like for a weekend. The car and driving experience was pretty good but charging still leaves a lot to be desired. That said, the best charging experience I had in the Raleigh- Durham area was with EVgo. Now that I'm back home in Oklahoma, I'm disappointed there are no EVgo chargers in the state. Hopefully that will change soon however. I tried to use an Electrify America station in Cary but there were several cars queued up and half the chargers were down. The Chargepoint charger I used in downtown Durham was ok but it was only a 50W (?) unit. Worked well to add a few KW while we wandered around and would be ok for a home charger.
Our verdict is for us, the EV infrastructure in Oklahoma and surrounding states is lacking to only have EV's in the garage. A plug-in hybrid like a Panamera makes more sense for around town and long range driving right now. An EV would be alright for around town with a Level 2 charger in the garage and for day trips to the Dallas and maybe Kansas City area. Maybe an updated Ultium Bolt or an EQE 350+ would work well in that role for us. That said, we are really looking forward to seeing the new Polestar 3 when it is released.
You could take a look if the cable is specified to 500 A, usually there is a print on it. Maybe they cheaped out on it?
I've often wondered about the differences between the same charger on different networks after EA software limited some of their units. This makes it clear that, depending on the network, your mileage may vary.
🤣🤣🤣 the lights going off! Great video, thanks.
Thanks Kyle. I really enjoy your videos and have learned so much from them. I’ve turned into an EV geek. Now, I’m looking to get an EV soon. Please keep it up.
One question, how does this car compare to the Taycan with regards to charging and road trips? I know you also love road tripping in the Taycan. Do you think the EQS will even come close?
As a future video, I would love to see the lucid air canon ball challenge!
EQS is the best car I ever drove, period
If you had your home charger how long would it take to charge from 2 percent
Excellent charging curve and appears similar to my model S-LR. Therefore, I bought an EQS580 for vacation home and very happy with it. But the only DC fast charging in my area is EA and they very unreliable. Even your clever dad couldn’t get the one in Naples to work for me. However, on the 6th attempt, I got a 150kW EA to work in Punta Gorda, FL.
Those EA chargers USED to be able to do 450A. Something has changed recently. A Mach E maxes out at 125kw on chargers that used to charge at ~160kw!
Kyle, please let us know if you're able to get answers from EA as to why they've limited a lot of the 350 kW chargers to 350A. The two ABB 350 kW units at Colorado Mills Mall used to provide the full 500A but some time in December 2021 they were limited to 350A and that's not been resolved since. I logged a ticket with EA and their response was that the car sets the charge rate, clearly didn't understand the issue. Didn't realize the 350 kW unit in Loveland was also limited to 350A as it's been unavailable the last couple times I've been there but will check it out.
Thank you Kyle for taking the time to gather all the data. Is there any place in the graph where you can show the elapsed time for each milestone? 25%, 50%, 75%, 100%? That would be super useful to use as another comparison metric to see how quickly we can get back on the road.
Couldn't agree more. Time to SOC is a more important metric when planning highway trips. Also need consumption as miles per kilowatt hour at Seventy MPH .
Good charging curve, great car even if only for the 1%
If taveling with family it pays to plan enough reserve to make it to an alternate charger. My wife urges me to play it safe when on a road trip. With this in mind [as you mention] the 20-80% performance is the the curve most drivers will be experiencing. Will be very interested in the EQE performance. Finally, The Lucid cars cost more than the "S" class so customers wouls expect to get more somewhere in the spec.
Kyle, Tesla V3 SuCs in Europe easily "pump" in 650A for some 10 minutes max. when at low SoC for the full 250kW charge rates through the water-cooled CCS connector. So CCS as such is NOT limited to only 500A. Just no-else seems to be water-cooling the CCS connector itself even with water-cooled cables...
Okay Kyle, so Porsche Taycan/etron gt can do 270ish kw on most EA chargers. Since it's 800volt, will Taycan charge faster on a 500 amp ccs charger? Or does Porsche(VWAG) software limit all Taycans to that 270ish peak, regardless of charging equipment?
SW Limited
now I just need a wagon EV and all charging stations with these speeds and I'm sold lol.
A year later, current limited chargers still seem to be an issue.
I wish PlugShare had data about max current. There's a ton of "350kw" stations where I'd like to know if I'll be able to pull 135kw (350A) vs 180kW (500A). While not a huge deal if you get stuck at a slower charger, I'd like to to be able to try to pick the fastest option! Plugshare letting us down here.
I see where it's a negative, but just a year or so ago we wanted more charging stations available. It has transitioned from charger availability to now being peak charging speed availability. I say that's a good thing. Give it another year and we will have peak stations all over the US.
What's it say about me that I didn't find this nerdy at all, but super informative?!
Strong controlled curve for a low voltage setup. Fix the brakes and call it good.
WW3 - out of spec reviews got targeted first with an EMP! Who'd a thought!
The car looks like it is doing a rolling average over a few seconds on its kW display, which is a fairly common programming practice for these sorts of displays. The EA charger is actually a bit atypical with its 1/10 second update rate on the kW... that's real-time for sure.
-Matt
Hey Kyle! I've always wondered why sometimes EVs won't charge when they're at literally 0% state of charge. Do you know if it could always be explained by the thermal management thing you mentioned? Or could it be because of how depleted the battery is that none of the electronic accessories are functioning and it can't do that thermal management? I'm learning so much about how EVs work from thanks to you and working with EA, and I greatly appreciate you sharing your knowledge!
Also, sorry plug and charge didn't work out for you! I really hope Mercedes turned that on for that test vehicle you got; if so, then I'd be rather surprised it didn't work because in my experience, EQSes have been doing quite well with that feature. If not, then I really hope Mercedes takes note of that feedback!
Oh, and funny you mention the waveform fluctuating during the beginning of the charging curve. I've only seen it once before and I wish I could remember what kind of car it was, but I remember seeing a car's charging speed doing that too. Like one minute it'd be lower, then the next minute it'd ramp up again. So strange, I wonder what that's about. If that's a normal thing to expect with these 400V vehicles then I wish that even one of these manufacturers could divulge why that fluctuation happens. Just like you, I really like to know and share exactly what any EV driver can anticipate with their vehicle performance. Anyway, thanks again for all the great work you do! 😄
I am not an expert, but I believe that a very very low SOC can damage individual cells chemically, causing the battery to be unable to accept voltage as a whole. That cell must be taken out and charged individually (or sometimes replaced). Gruber Motors on TH-cam explains this really well in Tesla Roadsters. I’m not sure about other cars.
6:54 The 350 to 375 A limit is typically only for 150 kW units. I wonder whether a module or two is down in their 350 kW charger.
My EQS 450 Plug in Charge works but some Electrify America gets 162 KW on 150 KW station, though i just bought 2nd EV which is EQB and have major issue with charging. Mercedess blame Electrify and Electrify blames Mercedess, it has beed at service over 2 weeks and they cant fix it yet. Charging is a key on these EV cars.
So how do Tesla manage to deliver 250 kW in Europe where they use CCS? Do they exceed 500A in some proprietary implementation?
Yes, they do. v3-Video from Norway: th-cam.com/video/ACmymJtNglQ/w-d-xo.html
3rd party chargers like Ionity are limited to 500A, Model 3 peaks at ~190kW there.
They output 630 amps at 400V
So CCS is clearly not limited to 500A then. Interesting 🧐
@@joshualewis3337 it may be limited to 500A per the CharIN spec but Tesla doesn’t believe in those limitations. If you watch Tesla’s rep on the development of the new MCS standard, you hear them speak on pressing the envelope on energy density and not being too conservative with conductor thermal design.
Tesla doesn’t like to leave capacity on the table in the name of being overly safe. They only limit things when testing and analysis shows it to be unsafe. As we’ve seen (V2 chargers updated from 120kW to 150kW), they also re-evaluate their designs and push even further if they find a safe way to do it.
@@lynyrd65YT Yes, as Kyle said, having thermal problems on the connector while charging on V2 150kW SuC.
15:50 - It's especially funny EVgo doesn't show the third digit since it's the "Ultium Ready!" station, and the only Ultium vehicles on the road at the moment are the massive-pack Hummer EV! They'll breach 100 kWh on a "recommended for road trip" 20-80% charge session!
In a couple years, new 800 volt vehicles will start charging at 400+ kw and we’ll be saying “remember when we were SO stoked about 200+ kw charging?”
Here is some reference charging video at Ionity for comparison:
th-cam.com/video/BUvGfX-4UoY/w-d-xo.html
i'd reserve the judgement until they have 10 years+ equvalent use on them. High charge C rates are also high wear rates.
With free 30 minute charging, I found that 10 to 80% would take a little over 30 minutes. So if you want just free charging, I would stick to 20 to 80%.
Why not 10-75 % ;-)
Your right...10 to 80% takes a little over 30 minutes
Very interesting. But MOAR NERD STUFF PLEASE!
Tesla turned the once regal and classy luxury model S into a Zoom-Zoom- Dodge Challenger wanna-be with more speed, black accent trim, ugly black wheels, 10 year old body style and an airplane yoke... WTF???. Mercedes has just filled the gap with the EQS. I'm a former Tesla owner now. I traded it for a 450+ ($102K base price) and it even came with a steering wheel!!!! 425 mile reading at 100% charge and it self-drives on par or better in some ways than my Tesla did. And It's plenty fast enough too. This is a car for grown-ups who want every possible creature comfort, class, quiet cabin, great build quality, long battery range with brick and mortar dealerships in every town... It's a dream to drive and turns on a dime. And Mercedes even threw in 2 years of free charging at electrify america.... Nothing to complain about. Plus my Tesla-brand home wall charger works perfectly on the EQS with a $150 doller plug-in converter,....
Since 500A charger is so rare, you should make a video on 350A charger, to see how much slower it charge.
What you are showing here doesn't represent what the user of 400v EV will get in the real world. 500A charger is too hard to find.
16:04 Another thing to keep in mind for your tests is that the 1 hour sessions is for off-peak times. Even with a membership, during peak usage time, the sessions can be 30 minutes or 45 minutes. Just something to watch out for.
If a long winter blackout occurs in a land of electric cars most of the population will
perish in the freezing cold. The gas powered car that would provide cabin heat for
many days will not be there. The electric car could only supply heat for a short time
and would quickly discharge its battery making a trip to a shelter impossible.
I think you are too forgiving to EA. I have pulled up to EA stations in FL and discovered multiple stalls out of service for several weeks. Tesla DCFC is much more dependable than EA. The other problems with EA are multiple plug types, CCS vs CHAdeMO and very few stalls.
I disagree with the statement that an 800V system would be a waste of money. In reality, this car (and all newer Teslas) are pretty much a perfect example of why newer EVs should be 800V based (or more). Running 500A continuously, regardless of voltage or total power, is not very practical. There is a lot of loss to heat by running high amperage like that, which not only hurts charging speeds and efficiency, but also hurts driving efficiency. I firmly believe that the reason Teslas can’t hold 250kw longer than they do is because the charger or the charging handle/port is incapable of continuously passing the 700+ amps that it requires for 250kw at the 350ish volts the Tesla packs sit at during low SOC. You said it yourself that the the charging handles get burning hot and the chargers themselves will often thermal throttle. That is a poor design. Changing the battery to 800V isn’t that difficult, it just requires changing how it is wired (and of course making sure the components are rated for the correct voltage). Inverters and motors can be designed to work with the higher voltage, it isn’t a huge cost. Yes, it does require additional circuitry to allow 800V vehicles to DCFC on 400V chargers, but as Hyundai/Kia have shown, that function can be integrated into existing hardware without significant additional expense. I believe the benefits greatly outweigh the cons, and cars like the Taycan and the e-Gmp cars show what 800V architecture is capable of.
Peter Rawlinson of Lucid has a new video about the battery and its 924 Volts choice. 👍
what was the PRICE?
EVGo is per minute. .30 in CO. 77 x .3 = $23.10
Too much extra money for a very *modest* bump in range compared to a chevy bolt/kona.
What's your data source? OBD2?
Bottom line. You don't need a gas car.
The eqs is ugly AF
Looks like a ford taurus from the 90s
Cool channel but can we please stop with the arms spread wide clickbait thumbnails? It’s kind of cringey. Disingenuous
It is dogwhistling to buy a Model Y 😁