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When the F4 Phantom first flew , it never had a gun.... the zeitgeist being that missiles would make dog fighting obsolete... as a result , the Top Gun Fighter Training School was brought into being... so much for no more dogfighting. And I noticed you mentioned Top Gun too... nice touch.
Just because the US is Producing a 6th Gen after two 5th Gens (F-22 & F-35) doesn't mean every other Fighter Produced now is also going to be 6th Gen, China is just working on a 5th Gen Minus and Russia has a 4th Gen Plus, we'll be producing 7th Gen by the Time half the world is Using 5th Gens...
If you're in the ADF, don't consume it - you really don't know what's in it. And will probably get pinged on a Prohibitive Substance test, at work, as it normally happens.
You call the Nighthawk "ugly", but when I was a kid the Nighthawk and the SR-71 Blackbird were the coolest things to me. Even now, over 20 years later, they're still 2 of my favorite aircraft designs.
Exactly, both planes blew everyone's mind when their shapes were finally reveled. I was at the Rose parade in Pasadena when the B2 flew over in the 1990's, I think it was 95 or 96. I was like 15 and it looked like a damn space ship.
I saw A nighthawk fly at the air show once, It looked like it was changing shape as it flew Because of all the weird angles. Also, I've never thought it was ugly, weird as hell, but not ugly.
It's fun how nobody in the comments is thinking about the fact that the system is built with remote control and remote decision making integrated into jets that can have pilots or go unmanned. The scary bit is that if a pilot has second thoughts about firing on a target, their commander can just take over and pull the trigger from hundreds of miles away. Given how many times the guys in the middle of things prevented Armageddon during the cold war by defying orders... Removing that ability is pretty scary.
@OneIssueVoter and where do you think that money goes? Just disappears? Funding jobs in many countries, funding research into tech that will make its way to normal people, keeping economies going... It's not like the US is literally wasting money, it's going back into its people mostly.
@OneIssueVoterwhy is it that you think they “never get used”? Because they’re a deterrent, if they weren’t there you wouldn’t have the liberty to express your uneducated opinion
@OneIssueVoter The 1.5 trillion is the cost over the ENTIRE LIFE TIME of the program. So ya, the best stealth fighter on earth, 1000+ of them, for 40+ years. A fucking bargin if you ask me.
The whole plot of Maverick doesn't even make sense lol. They could have just used a GPS guided bomb and lobbed it over the hill and left instead of needing to do all the dramatic filler. Hell, even aircraft 40 years old can use GPS waypoints that are pre-loaded so they just hit a button and the laser designator will snap to the proper location and laser a target. Not to mention the weird SAMs that only have a range of a few hundred feet and the missile fly slow enough to be dodged lol.
@@rubiconnn i disagree completely the movie was entertaining your plot is not entertaining at all everyone knows it could have been solved easier but that's not fun and exciting
@@rubiconnn They expressly said that the GPS systems were notified because of whatever jamming systems the Iranians had. The sam Systems that they had were also pretty freaking ancient
I mean, from the standpoint of seeing function as beauty, I agree. Maybe it's appearance is the last line of defence for it? You're not meant to see it, but its so fuck ugly that you don't WANT to see it!!
It does have a rather extraterrestrial look to it doesn’t it? (no, I’m not saying it’s *actually* extraterrestrial in origin, it’s mathematical derivation for it’s stealth properties is actually fairly well known now - and ironically, started in an obscure mathematical paper in the USSR that the Soviets failed to recognize the importance of and didn’t classify as secret)
the F117 isn't ugly. Its brutalist. Its a machine that is heavier than air and it flies through air with almost no radar signature. Of course it doesn't look sleek like a dolphin. Its technologically amazing piece of equipment.
This thing will have come into existence, and had X bn spent on it and gone out of production and service having only destroyed a few weather balloons. Anyone think these were the biggest con in the history of human civilization, C19 excepting.
@@pigeonpoo1823 The FA18 Super Hornet was one of the biggest cons in history. The defense contractors easily duped the incompetent Congress into funding it by making it look like an FA18 Hornet on the outside and calling it a minor upgrade, despite being a completely different plane.
Not ugly, Definitely weird, but not ugly at all. If it was a girl, she'd be a crazy Goth chick, but with an amazing body underneath the trench coat and spikey shit.
1:40 - Chapter 1 - The problem 3:30 - Mid roll ads 4:40 - Chapter 2 - 6th gen or vapourware? 13:30 - Chapter 3 - How long until we see one ? 19:20 - Chapter 4 - Conclusion
It's interesting that the Navy and Air Force programs already seem to have a lot of daylight between them. The rumblings are that the Navy's design is a kinematic monster, prioritizing extreme, possibly hypersonic speed with very long range and giving stealth a lower priority. NAVAIR seems to think Stealth is an aging technology that will not provide decisive returns in the next conflict and would prefer to return to sheer mind numbing speed so as to give weapons higher initial velocity, decrease time to intercept, functionally reduce the range and pK of enemy missiles, and provide better odds of intercepting J-20s before they can release ASCMs
The idea of "what comes next" is terrifying. I'm sure it has always carried some weight, but we're long past the point where combat would take centuries to really change. It can change in a decade.
Just a side note: Combined cycle engines aren't new -- they pushed the SR-71 and its fore-bearer (The CIA's A-12, also flown by USAF pilots) past Mach 3 by adjusting the bypass air path and using the afterburner as a ramjet. The engines could go past Mac 3.4, but doing so would start melting titanium parts that were important in keeping the aircraft in the air.
Those aren’t adaptive cycle those were turbo/ram hybrid engines. Adaptive cycle is able to toggle between a high bypass(look at airline engines), and a low bypass mode(look at supersonic engines)
Second single technologies will be around before they actually make a generation for example want data fusion look at a Awac’s. If you want super cruise the f-104 could do that at some altitudes. If you want lasers the laser equipped 747 is the way to go. Single technologies is easy combined if them isn’t. For example if I ask for a 200 mph+ car that’s relatively easy. If you want to tow 10,000 pounds, easy a truck. If I ask for a car that can go 200 mph plus tow 10,000 every single engineer is going to look at me funny. But that’s what fighter generations are.
Boundary layer control on an airframe without tail fins is something we should have been able to do long ago to be honest, but that's been adding more complexity than it was worth until recently. So we'll probably see tailess yawing as a permanent fixture in the future, depending on how it goes.
The only 6th gen aircraft that we KNOW OF... let's be honest, if we KNOW of them and the concepts on social media and TH-cam, they exist far more commonly than we realize. When I went into the Air Force in the late 90's they were talking about the "in testing" F-117 being used in Nicaragua in the 80's as a COMBAT AIRCRAFT. The B-2 which my dad worked on in the late 80's was publicly displayed b/c "It had been in use for at least a decade already" as he said. The idea that " 6th gen is just a testing idea" at this point is foolishly naïve. We've got CLEARLY forward thinking 5.5 gen at LEAST in the air NOW... likely being used somewhere... if not early forms of 6th gen.
Tempest is a British led program with partner nations (Much like the F35) Also, BAE Systems works heavily with US defence programs. (Edit: Much like the US led F35 program....)
They’ll never become irrelevant, they’ll just continue to become less so with every passing year since after Vietnam… the dogfight dies with a whimper, not a bang
Recent decades of US aerial engagements: "We actually agree with Simon on this: air to air engagements result if you don't intimidate the enemy and don't overwhelm their air bases first. Having the biggest stick keeps you from needing g to use it" US War game scenarios: "We agree with Simon: near peer conflicts will seeattrition of most air resources on the ground, up to 90% of air frame losses will be missile bombardment on airbases. Trainers and strategists who built their career and reputation on dogfighting principles who stand to lose reputation, standing, and legacy in a change of doctrine: "we matter". /j The actual definition of dogfighting means engaging with guns instead of missiles, guns with extremely limited ammunition counts. Tog Gun comes from the earliest era of air to air missiles when they were unreliable. We've had 60+ years of development since then on targeting, countermeasures etc to make them much better. The F35 the pilot can look behind him get a lock and launch, no need to turn the plane. The guns are a relic at this point. Take away the stealth, the avionics, and helmet in the F35 is like taking away the wings, and arresting hook if the F14: why even have a plane at all? However, should pilots continue training for dogfighting? Absolutely. The training involves combat and situational awareness under extreme duress mentally and physically. It's like asking Navy Seals to take it easy because the enemies they face receive 1/1000th the training they do.
One of the other interesting things that it looks like might go with the larger planes and as a counterpoint to the all remote flying ideas is that there's some rumors the NGAD could end up with several pilots so you have people to manage all the drones even if jamming is an issue. "Fighters" being like 4 times larger, mostly being used to sight stuff for other platforms or lob missiles and having 2-3 people run them does kinda make me wonder if we need a new word at this point though.
Fighter development is nuts, because when is the last time someone had to really try and degrade enemy air defence? Like the US took out Iraqs in 2003...but it still hadnt recovered enough from the first gulf war. So we keep building weapons to fight a war that doesnt happen...and im not saying we shouldnt, but we actually dont know how they would work until they go into combat. Simulations only show you so much. If we build big networked fighter/bomber platforms...our advesaries will work on ways to take down the network or jam it. None of our enemies try and go head on. THey simply cannot afford to. Any enemy who focuses on strength for strength is a moron. Look at China, they know they cant beat us, so its about making it too costly for us to beat them in their sphere. They arent going to tray and invade us, that would be pointless, but they can focus on a costly war of attrition in the South China Sea and Strait of Taiwan. Im not saying they have us to rights or anything, but their plan is to focus on asymetric warfare. They are not prepping to fight us on our terms, because that is a fools errand.
Crikey! Saw the thumbnail and yelled: Starscream!!! I was looking forwards to his next Earth alt interpretation after F15 and F22. Sounds like he’ll still be fast but not as manoeuvrable, a bit chunkier, a seriously heavy hitter and energon-efficient, although possibly a combiner cluster flight with Skywarp and Thundercracker or a host of Minicons. Cool!
one of the best war movies ever is a bomber movie. "The Dam Busters"! it's also nice to hear the ghost bat / loyal wing man system getting a mention. with cooperation between Boeing Australia, Australian defence forces and private corporations, the bat is a solely designed, manufactured and developed in Australia and will be sold to our allies only.
strangely this all reminds me of the shift from surface warfare ships duking it out in LOS to aircraft carriers sending out sorties where the opposing fleets never see each other.
Calling anything Russian “fifth-gen plus” is the most generous terminology I’ve ever seen for a plane with an RCS of a super hornet and that is held together with self-tapping screws. Of which they have less than 10 btw.
@@AprehamLincoln From what I saw in an image, the fit and finish on the su-57 is horrible, panel gaps and missing screws can be seen in up close images, but of course, this could be an experimental unit and not a combat ready one.
@@nicholaslee5473 Russian aircraft design has always been more crude and rugged in nature. They just have a different design philosophy and the truth is we’ll probably never know whether there’s or the US is better because their pilots just aren’t trained well enough for any kind of true test
There is a lot of dogfighting happening if there is no other way that two stealth planes can detect each other but by seeing them. The detection range of current stealth fighters against ASEA Radar is about 15 miles. That's not BVR anymore.
A few things; giving up maneuverability for dedicated Beyond Visual Range combat is not necessarily going to happen in manned aircraft. For one, if both sides are slinging BVR missiles at each other, it'll come down to which one has the better mix of EW, maneuverability, and decoy systems to throw off said missiles aimed at them. Another thing that counters that conclusion is the addition of laser weapons. The main reason for their inclusion is to move away from a fixed gun while still allowing aircraft to "dogfight" as well as help with shooting down incoming missiles within the laser's area of coverage. A third reason is the hard lessons learned from Vietnam, where even older but more agile aircraft outdid high-end aircraft, and the Top Gun Program and similar other programs training pilots to be still capable of dogfighting as a last resort option. So the need for maneuverability will still be there. On the subject of NGAD, something you didn't mention was that the USAF is also wanting aircraft proposals to be builder-agnostic; basically, whichever design wins, they want the other two rivals to be able to build said design too, similar to how the US Army bought the JLTV design and just recently gave GM orders to produce more since Oshkosh can't keep up with production needs. This would allow faster surging of next-gen aircraft when-needed as-needed, and also serve as a balance to ensure they get their fleets modernized on-schedule. For the rival companies, it's a trade-off of having to give up some possible trade secrets in exchange for having the winning design and becoming primary builder.
Like how stealth has created anti-stealth and made literally everyone include stealth in their designs. The same thing happened with radar, supersonics and missiles.
@@jaws666they are in a state where they can be reactivated if needed as far as I'm aware since the airforce still operates a few nighthawks for testing
@@floofles9473 i was ay the Royal International Air Tatoo (R.I.A.T) Airshow back in 2007 at R.A.F Fairford and while they did have 1 in the flying display the commentator from the U.S.A.F. pubicly made the statment thay would be retited by the end of that year
I got the YF-23 video made. You finally made the Thunderbirds video after me pestering you. I appreciate the aviation videos. My father would have loved your channel!!!!!!!!
Something that has always crossed my mind is if we ever become a well established solar system spanning civilization the trend that NGAD and other 6th gen programs seem to imply translates rather well to what realistic space combat between vessels would look like in the future if it's ever allowed to evolve that far. Massive engagement ranges, supremely powerful sensors, equally powerful energy weapons and standoff munitions who's ranges are measured in light seconds, enhanced highly secured networking capabilities between different units located in deep space, orbit, and planetary surface, and almost nothing even close to a dogfight between any two vessels And get I'm still positive there's gonna come a point where at least a pair of opposing vessels are gonna find themselves within CIWS range where they might need to maneuver to get an advantage over one another.
Outside of the military uses, I think one thing this will spawn is the next leap in driverless cars. I have always felt that the current process utilized for cars will hit a wall (pun intended or not), and that eventually for us to hit level 4 and 5 automation, the vehicles will need to talk to each other to proactively maneuver.
ive seen videos exploring this concept before when tesla started getting big and the main large problem with that idea is the fact that a large amount of the population like driving their cars on their own
Ultimately, it is supremely stealthy invisibility that gonna give the edge to ...? Hopefully, us ... for keeps. This is simply an eye-opening premier to whats just around the corner in this arena.
This sounds like something straight from some sort of mecha anime or some sort of sci-fi shooter game but with the ai becoming corrupted leading to humanity back to the stone age.
What I like about Halo. AI use is heavily regulated & restrictive to logistical support & strategies advices roles in the UNSC. They NEVER go beyond thier roles without very stricted authorisation from a commanding officer as combatants. Why the Created uprising fell as quickly as it rosed, the UNSC isn't stupid, they planned for this stuff.
The more we lose the human element, the more it worries me. Especially warfare but you need to keep ahead of potential adversaries. Glad I'm getting older & lived most of my best years
You are by far the best aviation show/video of them all. Actually aerospace to be included on my list. But why the overly dark background, is it really needed......
7:07 After watching the Megaproject put out today on the 6th gen fighter I cannot help but think the B-21 airframe could be used. There was mention of the 6th gen fighter being large, long range with standoff weapons. The B-21 Raider here is long range with modular weapon systems decked out with air to air weapons.. I cannot help but think this B-21 airframe could also be this long-range 6th gen fighter. At about 7:07 of the 6th Gen fighter video pretty much says this. For the Chinese 6th stealth aircraft there was speculation that the stabilizers might be retractable to give added maneuverability as needed. Maybe something like that could help a carrier version for the Navy. I would figure the B-21 to be too large for a carrier.
It is not difficult to find the video of the film footage of a US Navy pilot landing a Marine Corps C-130 tanker on a Forestall class carrier, repeatedly in the early 1960's. Doing so is not a preferred practice, but it is possible. By the way, the pilot got, I believe, a Distinguished Flying Cross for his efforts.
Yes, but that was an incredibly large airframe needed for that single weapon system, that relied on massive chemical tanks that had to be refueled constantly "55 kg (121 lb) to generate one kW " - and you need a thousand times (!!) that amount for a long range shot. The Air Force did not request further funds for the Airborne Laser for 2010; Air Force Chief of Staff Schwartz has said that the system "does not reflect something that is operationally viable" according to the wikipedia page en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_YAL-1 A modern electric laser that the engines can charge while running on regular fuel is a much much better solution, which is also scalable from mobile short-ranged low output versions to large long-range high-output versions.
I am an American. I'm reasonably intelligent. When I first heard a U.S. strategist describing the concept of a multi-domain war fighting system, in this case he was describing the early ideas of the F-35, I honestly could not wrap my mind around the comprehensive complexity of it. And now the NGAD is extending the child's play of the F-35 into its own elevation of comprehensive complexity.
Imagine how terrifying a swarm of drone jets, each specialized to a specific role. Some carry long range missiles, some wield directed energy weapons to shoot down incoming threats, some carry supercomputers that can disable fleets of inferior drones
So, in theory, a number of 6 gen fighters could play the role of spotter as a single raider deployed its weapons load, which can include air to air. All of this, while the raider remains undetected.
Well. Hollywood predicted the NGAF's vision in 2005... it could only be more accurate if the internal voice for it is Wentworth Miller! From what I know, directed energy weapons are already being used in warfare. The AC-130 (allegedly) had one such weapon for frying communications infrastructure. Though why you'd need to do that when you have a Howitzer mounted next to it... XD
I never dealt with any weapon systems but I know back on deployment in 14 we already knew about Chinas hypersonic carrier killers so honestly I wouldn't be surprised if the AF or army were doing something with directed energy idk though I was navy
Any task that requires decision making is about to be gone and it's honestly a good thing. So long as there is a network that can remain secure or theh operate independent from any command and only instructions given before leaving.
Fun Fact,... the prototype/proof of concept ( "Have Blue") for the "catastrophically ugly" F-117 was first flown in 1977 after being developed from 60's era drawings,... So puts things into perspective about the "shakiness" of 6th generation stuff...The reality is, is If they are letting you know that they are thinking about it, Then its already been flown and they are working on that future concept's replacement.
If people don’t think that there is a few operational 6th gen fighters from the US then they’re delusional. US is 100% planning the future of warfare, I assume 7th generation will be the start of autonomous+ regular pilot stuff, I think this generation will coincide with the B-21 acting as an air command hub and obviously the F-XX whatever it is will be like the air troops to that command hub. US said themselves it acts like a satellite, bomber, Hub and deterrent
I think there is a logical inconsistency with the idea of stealth and dogfighting 'going away.' While stealth does not completely eliminate an aircraft from radar, it does reduce its signature, so even if radar lock is not maintained, I believe AI will be able to inform the pilots (and other AI platforms) the general position (and maybe vector) of the contact, this process will only improve as the AI gets trained on this sort of sensor return. I think this will mean that dogfighting will by necessity return because stand off range will become increasingly difficult due to improvements in stealth design, leading the craft (or at least drone forward scouts) to close the distance. Of course, things might not be as 'knife edge' as before, as perhaps only visual identification will be necessary, but relative maneuverability and AI assistance will be necessary imo, especially co-ordinating drone swarms while being in combat.
The problem was not that the F-4 phantom couldn’t dogfight. The problem was that they didn’t good identification equipment so they have to get within visual range to identify Aircraft basically nullifying all of the phantom’s strengths, and making it play it’s weaknesses. Even with that by the end of the Vietnam War the Phantom was getting a 13 to 1 Kill ratio in the Navy where they never added guns.
We called it "combined arms" in the Marines since it was well established that we could attack "in the air, on land, and sea" as part of our maneuver warfare philosophy, while other branches were still figuring out how to get the tanks, ships, aircraft and troops to do the same in an attempt to transition away from an attrition warfare philosophy. The biggest reason it worked for us is because there was a high emphasis on training and not relying on technology though.
You make it sound as though it's a modern thing. The concept of the "Marine", and indeed the name itself, is nothing new. Marines have existed since long before any practical aircraft, they were always well trained and equipped, and capable of fighting in almost any environment. Quick, reactionary forces have been around for millennia in various forms, used to spearhead assaults by much larger "regular" forces. Historically, the US 'borrowed' the name from the British forces, used back in colonial ti es. As late as WW2, the US sent personnel for joint air, sea and land units to Britain to be trained.
@@another3997 What a Maine is hasn't changed in hundreds of years. What has changed is available weaponry and technology. My point is how the other branches were not considering working as a single entity when implementing most it until only a few decades ago while the Marines have always acted as a such.
Nice propaganda, jarhead. The US military learned "combined arms" from General Douhet and the Nazis. It was not dreamed up by marines. And in WW2 the US Army was doing it very effectively in the Pacific Theatre in combination with both navy and army air force air assets and without any advice from the marines. Douglas MacArthur was better at "manoeuver warfare" than anyone in the marine corps. "The marines are nothing more than the navy's police force with a cult of personality greater than Josef Stalin's." Harry S. Truman Yeah, Truman was a real jerk but that doesn't make him wrong.
@@josephledux8598 That's Marines with capital 'M' and didn't the Germans give us the nick name teufel hunden? Dogface Army LEGs haven't been hard since WWII and with all the friendly fire between the Army and Chair Force over the last 5 decades you would never know they even had any concept of combined arms. Of course nothing is ever dreamed up by the Marines we just happen to do everything better than everyone else, such as training, fighting wars, and getting the job done without retreating for example. As for the Squids they have SEALs doing their policing. We just use their ships as a taxi service. Besides we are to busy being the Presidents own.
I agree. Its also why I think space for a mounting an internal cannon is a smart idea, like some F-35 variants. If the enemy is all out of missiles and you are too, can still go in for a kill shot if needed. Plus you could always aim it the old school way... with a mk. I eyeball. If you're good enough... or Tom Cruise.
One sunday morning atround 5am I was outside working on a chicken coup. I was hanging chicken wire over the top of a run when I noticed something coming over the horizon. At first it was a blur but as it flew directly over me it I noticed it had a elongated diamond shape much like the NGAD FX. Mind you its 5a sunday morning, it was dead quiet and I had just witnessed a plane fly from one horizon to the other in about 10 seconds without a decibel made. The jet itself blended with the sky above it perfectly and tge only reason I happened to see it was because I just happened to be looking through the chicken wire right at it.
Always keep hearing the end of the dog fight while other top officials says "these planes might become so hard to lock on that some cocky rookie might just push them into a merge and a dog fight"
How do you even plan on shooting an aircraft if you can't lock it ? Even in a dogfight, you are limited to guns only. And besides, these fighters won't be visible at all. The purpose of stealth in a fighter plane nowadays isn't to be undetected (that is the purpose of a bomber's stealth) but rather for the enemy to take long enough to detect you that you get the first shot
@@onyxfinger7431 You can still lock it with IRs. Stealth is only radar cover. An AIM-9X is gonna lock even an F-35 without much issue. Can't cheat physics, heat will always be generated compared to background.
Every new generation of fighters claims to end dog fights and gets bigger and bigger. Then things actually need to get done and smaller airframes show up with dogfight capabilities.
If I were born with better vision, or had the money to correct it; I’d have joined the Navy or Air Force to become a pilot😰 So freaking cool. Retire and become an astronaut!!!
....you dont join the Navy or Air Force to become a pilot. You have to apply to the academies...which have ridiculously low acceptance rates. You also need a letter of recommendation from a Senator from your state, Congressman, or Governor. Then you have to be at the top of your class, because that dictates who get first choice on assignments. Even then fighter pilot is a popular choice. Its not just having perfect vision, you need a high degree of visual acuity. You could skip the academy and go through ROTC, but your grades are going to matter. My big brother in my college fraternity was a naval aviator through ROTC, but he piloted AWACs (not certain specifically, but some form of radar plane). Another guy also from my undergrad was in ROTC who I knew, he got into the fighter pilot program...but unfortunately died in a training accident during joint training with the airforce (like really early on....graduated may...read about his death in the school paper...i want to say that fall).
If I’m not mistaken, there’s an interesting design tension at work here. At scramjet speeds the aircraft would create RF-limiting plasma effects as the aircraft blasts through the air, no? So wanting the aircraft to be more RF-connected would limit how fast it could fly, even if the engines could handle the speed. You can have Mach 7, or you can have networked C2, but you can’t have both…?
Do you think that eventually fighters will get so stealthy that it'll loop back around to needing visual confirmation and dogfighting? Like what if no radar or missile can track them and the only way to shoot them down becomes guns?
your saying that as if other technology doesn't evolve too, it's like saying that soldiers in future will end up melee fighting everywhere because of invisibility technology
You mention Battle of Britain and Top Gun as if it’s a slam dunk for fighters. Dambusters, 30 Seconds Over Tokyo and Memphis Belle would like a word with you.
The terrible tragedy is that fast, long range and BVR with advanced avionics, communications and radar were the core of the F23 Black Widow. Those damn lobbyists.
Only the USAD NGAD is really proposed to be something beyond what fighters are currently doing; everyone else is just making a bigger, better F-22, but the NGAD is absolutely magic. It's a mother ship.
There have been many attempts to change the way wars are fought throughout history. Many sounded great in theory, but were just flights of fancy from overactive imaginations. They either never materialised, or they failed when applied in the real world. Whilst not unique to them, in modern times, the USA in particular have a history of such things. It's not the first time they've claimed that dogfights are a thing of the past. It may not be the last.
@@another3997 It's not impossible that dogfights will happen again, but it is highly unlikely. Even in Vietnam where that argument comes from, with frankly relatively crude and unreliable first generation missiles, missiles provided the significant majority of shoot downs especially for the Navy after TOPGUN was created and tactics were revised. Missiles have only become significantly longer ranged, considerably more maneuverable, and overall far harder to evade or otherwise defeat since then. There may be some perfect storm of elements that causes more dogfights, again I fully admit that's possible. But I can't really see an argument for that becoming the norm.
I have no faith that leadership (civilian or military) won't negate much future technology with restrictive ROE, such as requiring positive visual ID or being shot at before being able to shoot back. And I could also see a submarine raising an antenna and jamming communications/datalinks/GPS/etc just as an over water air battle was to begin, sending us right back to 1v1 or 2v2 dogfighting.
Since when do the F-22 and F-35 not interface with surveillance/radar from a variety of air/ground sources in order to have such long-range strike capabilities?
I'm currently remodeling a historically important telescope outside of Tucson AZ, and on/off I'll hear some sort of fast moving jet without seeing what's making the noise. At all, and I'm on one of the highest points of this place, clear skies for miles.. The big thing is, I never see what's making the noise. It's a given that you can't run afterburners over populated areas. What's lesser known, is this particular observatory (and probably other, idfk), is highly restricted air space. Which begs the question, what can run afterburners without being spotted? And before the questions come flowing in, I remember when they outlawed afterburners above occupied land because jets from Davis Monthan would blow the effin windows out of my parents house regularly. So I know what fast movers sound like, and you usually don't make that much of a racket without using afterburners or something faster and just as loud..
The very concept of stealth means reducing detection which in a peer to peer contest with very capable stealth systems, the opponents won’t be able to detect each other at long or intermediate range. They will see each other at short range which is a dog fight. The rules of engagement requiring identification of the target also helps to negate stealths advantages. The greatest value of stealth is in an all out conflict/world war. Regional conflicts with rules of engagement encumbering the technology neuters it.
I don't believe 6th generation fighter jets will throw maneuverability in the trash. It's such a simple and useful ability to have. We've seen 4th gen jets literally dodge surface to air missiles. If stealth fails you need a backup plan and physically avoiding threats is the most obvious solution.
In the real world, tactics are often dictated as much by what businesses can/want to produce as what actually works from a military perspective. Which means that it doesn't matter if maneuverability is desirable if none of the 6th gen planes that get built are actually maneuverable. Tactics are dictated by the weapons you have, not the weapons you want.
I notice controlling "drones" is the part of the six generation fighter. Then China has already beat us with the two person J20 variant that came out in 2021...Stupid US Politicians are the blame again for hiding shit...like they funded COVID 19 virus in China....
I seem to recall that similar claims to the death of dogfighting capabilities were said prior to Vietnam. The military of the day discovered that dogfighting was still needed in some circumstances and the aircraft of the day couldn’t
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When the F4 Phantom first flew , it never had a gun.... the zeitgeist being that missiles would make dog fighting obsolete... as a result , the Top Gun Fighter Training School was brought into being... so much for no more dogfighting. And I noticed you mentioned Top Gun too... nice touch.
Just because the US is Producing a 6th Gen after two 5th Gens (F-22 & F-35) doesn't mean every other Fighter Produced now is also going to be 6th Gen, China is just working on a 5th Gen Minus and Russia has a 4th Gen Plus, we'll be producing 7th Gen by the Time half the world is Using 5th Gens...
I don’t how ur so thin with all the nutritional supplements and cereal u eat 😂😂😂😂😂
Crickey Ag1 is $125 a month for Canadians. Good grief, I really wanted to try it. But not at $4.15 a hit.
If you're in the ADF, don't consume it - you really don't know what's in it. And will probably get pinged on a Prohibitive Substance test, at work, as it normally happens.
You call the Nighthawk "ugly", but when I was a kid the Nighthawk and the SR-71 Blackbird were the coolest things to me. Even now, over 20 years later, they're still 2 of my favorite aircraft designs.
Exactly, both planes blew everyone's mind when their shapes were finally reveled. I was at the Rose parade in Pasadena when the B2 flew over in the 1990's, I think it was 95 or 96. I was like 15 and it looked like a damn space ship.
The nighthawk specifically is in my opinion the coolest designed plane ever just because how unconventional it looks compared to its siblings
Exactly. Came to the comments to say this.
I saw A nighthawk fly at the air show once, It looked like it was changing shape as it flew Because of all the weird angles. Also, I've never thought it was ugly, weird as hell, but not ugly.
The Nighthawk is a plane that makes you wonder how engineers got the damn thing in the air to begin with.
It's fun how nobody in the comments is thinking about the fact that the system is built with remote control and remote decision making integrated into jets that can have pilots or go unmanned.
The scary bit is that if a pilot has second thoughts about firing on a target, their commander can just take over and pull the trigger from hundreds of miles away.
Given how many times the guys in the middle of things prevented Armageddon during the cold war by defying orders... Removing that ability is pretty scary.
I think your tinfoil hat is too tight.
@OneIssueVoter and where do you think that money goes? Just disappears?
Funding jobs in many countries, funding research into tech that will make its way to normal people, keeping economies going... It's not like the US is literally wasting money, it's going back into its people mostly.
@@Xyler94indeed,besides defense is important
@OneIssueVoterwhy is it that you think they “never get used”? Because they’re a deterrent, if they weren’t there you wouldn’t have the liberty to express your uneducated opinion
@OneIssueVoter The 1.5 trillion is the cost over the ENTIRE LIFE TIME of the program. So ya, the best stealth fighter on earth, 1000+ of them, for 40+ years. A fucking bargin if you ask me.
*Ace Combat soundtrack in the background intensifies*
Hahaha that or Project Wingman
Ace combat fucking rocked
Kingz. Monarch made me nuke Cascadia, twice!
Mobias 1 engage
Yooo!! That game is the reason I played every fps inverted.
Simon: The era of the dogfight is over.
Maverick: Maybe so Simon, but not today.😅
The whole plot of Maverick doesn't even make sense lol. They could have just used a GPS guided bomb and lobbed it over the hill and left instead of needing to do all the dramatic filler. Hell, even aircraft 40 years old can use GPS waypoints that are pre-loaded so they just hit a button and the laser designator will snap to the proper location and laser a target. Not to mention the weird SAMs that only have a range of a few hundred feet and the missile fly slow enough to be dodged lol.
@@rubiconnn i disagree completely the movie was entertaining your plot is not entertaining at all everyone knows it could have been solved easier but that's not fun and exciting
Honestly the era of pilots in general is coming to an end
@@rubiconnn GPS jammers on su 57.
@@rubiconnn They expressly said that the GPS systems were notified because of whatever jamming systems the Iranians had. The sam Systems that they had were also pretty freaking ancient
Woah woah woah… the f-117 is a beaut!
I mean, from the standpoint of seeing function as beauty, I agree.
Maybe it's appearance is the last line of defence for it? You're not meant to see it, but its so fuck ugly that you don't WANT to see it!!
F117 isn't a fighter though. It's a bomber
@@skyking6989 correct, but they thought if they called it a bomber it wouldn’t get the approval of the military brass and pilots.
It does have a rather extraterrestrial look to it doesn’t it? (no, I’m not saying it’s *actually* extraterrestrial in origin, it’s mathematical derivation for it’s stealth properties is actually fairly well known now - and ironically, started in an obscure mathematical paper in the USSR that the Soviets failed to recognize the importance of and didn’t classify as secret)
true. still is after all these years.
the F117 isn't ugly. Its brutalist. Its a machine that is heavier than air and it flies through air with almost no radar signature. Of course it doesn't look sleek like a dolphin. Its technologically amazing piece of equipment.
The F-4 proved that with enough thrust you can make anything fly. The F-117 is just following up on that great advance in aviation.
Yes it is all that... and its also incredibly ugly.
@@kendrosstragopulos3642 It's definitely not my favourite looking aircraft, but I will say it looks really quite cool
@@kendrosstragopulos3642not ugly at all....weird looking, but not ugly.
Well, all airplanes are heavier than air, but some are good looking and some are not. The F-117 definitely belongs to the latter group.
We still need a Megaprojects vid for the legendary F-22 Raptor Simon!!
This thing will have come into existence, and had X bn spent on it and gone out of production and service having only destroyed a few weather balloons.
Anyone think these were the biggest con in the history of human civilization, C19 excepting.
fkin beauty
@@pigeonpoo1823 syria russia and i believe iran grounded hundreds of combat aircraft when they were sent to syria
@@pigeonpoo1823 The FA18 Super Hornet was one of the biggest cons in history. The defense contractors easily duped the incompetent Congress into funding it by making it look like an FA18 Hornet on the outside and calling it a minor upgrade, despite being a completely different plane.
@@kevinsierra482 yes migs possibly not hundreds of any f plane even if the name was FU-23
The F1-17a was NEVER Ugly. It literally looked like a otherworldly spacecraft. Dark menacing and hyper futuristic
It's ugly ... like the first girl I dated. She could have used more stealth.
@@wannamontana4130 definitely NOT an ugly aircraft but to each their own.
Not ugly, Definitely weird, but not ugly at all. If it was a girl, she'd be a crazy Goth chick, but with an amazing body underneath the trench coat and spikey shit.
It's ugly AF. Fact!
Definitely not ugly.... the nissan Juke is ugly.
1:40 - Chapter 1 - The problem
3:30 - Mid roll ads
4:40 - Chapter 2 - 6th gen or vapourware?
13:30 - Chapter 3 - How long until we see one ?
19:20 - Chapter 4 - Conclusion
It's interesting that the Navy and Air Force programs already seem to have a lot of daylight between them. The rumblings are that the Navy's design is a kinematic monster, prioritizing extreme, possibly hypersonic speed with very long range and giving stealth a lower priority. NAVAIR seems to think Stealth is an aging technology that will not provide decisive returns in the next conflict and would prefer to return to sheer mind numbing speed so as to give weapons higher initial velocity, decrease time to intercept, functionally reduce the range and pK of enemy missiles, and provide better odds of intercepting J-20s before they can release ASCMs
Fantastic Video Sir. Sky -Net in Progress.
Big fan from 🇨🇦
The idea of "what comes next" is terrifying. I'm sure it has always carried some weight, but we're long past the point where combat would take centuries to really change. It can change in a decade.
"catastrophically ugly F-117A Nighthawk" FRIENDSHIP ENDED WITH MEGAPROJECTS
Nobody cares...
@@bogdanscripcariu6501 then why comment?
@@CharlieH99 Just to remind him that fact!
@@bogdanscripcariu6501 I care
Snowflake ❄
Just a side note: Combined cycle engines aren't new -- they pushed the SR-71 and its fore-bearer (The CIA's A-12, also flown by USAF pilots) past Mach 3 by adjusting the bypass air path and using the afterburner as a ramjet. The engines could go past Mac 3.4, but doing so would start melting titanium parts that were important in keeping the aircraft in the air.
I love the A12. It is beyond cool.
Those aren’t adaptive cycle those were turbo/ram hybrid engines. Adaptive cycle is able to toggle between a high bypass(look at airline engines), and a low bypass mode(look at supersonic engines)
Second single technologies will be around before they actually make a generation for example want data fusion look at a Awac’s. If you want super cruise the f-104 could do that at some altitudes. If you want lasers the laser equipped 747 is the way to go. Single technologies is easy combined if them isn’t.
For example if I ask for a 200 mph+ car that’s relatively easy. If you want to tow 10,000 pounds, easy a truck. If I ask for a car that can go 200 mph plus tow 10,000 every single engineer is going to look at me funny. But that’s what fighter generations are.
It's not a sidenote (ONE word btw) if it's the only thing you type...it's just a note.
The American plans remind me a lot of the CGI films in a film called Stealth from 2005.
Sadly there is no FA37 being developed or shown here
That did look sweet, that plane! 😍
Just watched that movie the other night
Boundary layer control on an airframe without tail fins is something we should have been able to do long ago to be honest, but that's been adding more complexity than it was worth until recently. So we'll probably see tailess yawing as a permanent fixture in the future, depending on how it goes.
The new aircraft designs remind me of the X-02 Wyvern from the Ace Combat series. Funny how video games got it right.
The only 6th gen aircraft that we KNOW OF... let's be honest, if we KNOW of them and the concepts on social media and TH-cam, they exist far more commonly than we realize. When I went into the Air Force in the late 90's they were talking about the "in testing" F-117 being used in Nicaragua in the 80's as a COMBAT AIRCRAFT. The B-2 which my dad worked on in the late 80's was publicly displayed b/c "It had been in use for at least a decade already" as he said.
The idea that " 6th gen is just a testing idea" at this point is foolishly naïve. We've got CLEARLY forward thinking 5.5 gen at LEAST in the air NOW... likely being used somewhere... if not early forms of 6th gen.
Sometimes I wonder if I was born a generation too late, or a generation too early.
Tempest is a British led program with partner nations (Much like the F35) Also, BAE Systems works heavily with US defence programs. (Edit: Much like the US led F35 program....)
The F-35 is not a British led program though..
@@ridgecrestwack9746 I meant, like the US led program.
What colony is doing is not important.It is only important what USA is doing as the real and only power in the west.
@@bigarmydave oh my bad I see
@@ivanlazarevic78 wtf
Simon: "Dogfights are becoming obsolete."
Top Gun and Red Flag (USAF) trainers: "Yeah. That's been said before. We'll believe it when we see it."
They say it every decade
They’ll never become irrelevant, they’ll just continue to become less so with every passing year since after Vietnam… the dogfight dies with a whimper, not a bang
@@quintenfranks8024
That means that it changed how it looks
And it'll always be "well, we didn't see that coming..."
Recent decades of US aerial engagements: "We actually agree with Simon on this: air to air engagements result if you don't intimidate the enemy and don't overwhelm their air bases first. Having the biggest stick keeps you from needing g to use it"
US War game scenarios: "We agree with Simon: near peer conflicts will seeattrition of most air resources on the ground, up to 90% of air frame losses will be missile bombardment on airbases.
Trainers and strategists who built their career and reputation on dogfighting principles who stand to lose reputation, standing, and legacy in a change of doctrine: "we matter". /j
The actual definition of dogfighting means engaging with guns instead of missiles, guns with extremely limited ammunition counts. Tog Gun comes from the earliest era of air to air missiles when they were unreliable. We've had 60+ years of development since then on targeting, countermeasures etc to make them much better. The F35 the pilot can look behind him get a lock and launch, no need to turn the plane. The guns are a relic at this point. Take away the stealth, the avionics, and helmet in the F35 is like taking away the wings, and arresting hook if the F14: why even have a plane at all? However, should pilots continue training for dogfighting? Absolutely. The training involves combat and situational awareness under extreme duress mentally and physically. It's like asking Navy Seals to take it easy because the enemies they face receive 1/1000th the training they do.
One of the other interesting things that it looks like might go with the larger planes and as a counterpoint to the all remote flying ideas is that there's some rumors the NGAD could end up with several pilots so you have people to manage all the drones even if jamming is an issue. "Fighters" being like 4 times larger, mostly being used to sight stuff for other platforms or lob missiles and having 2-3 people run them does kinda make me wonder if we need a new word at this point though.
Sounds more like a command ship for drones than a fighter. It'd be like calling a carrier a fighter plane, in various capacities.
Motherships?
@@jab100lochaber comon motherplanes lol
Fighter development is nuts, because when is the last time someone had to really try and degrade enemy air defence? Like the US took out Iraqs in 2003...but it still hadnt recovered enough from the first gulf war. So we keep building weapons to fight a war that doesnt happen...and im not saying we shouldnt, but we actually dont know how they would work until they go into combat. Simulations only show you so much. If we build big networked fighter/bomber platforms...our advesaries will work on ways to take down the network or jam it. None of our enemies try and go head on. THey simply cannot afford to. Any enemy who focuses on strength for strength is a moron. Look at China, they know they cant beat us, so its about making it too costly for us to beat them in their sphere. They arent going to tray and invade us, that would be pointless, but they can focus on a costly war of attrition in the South China Sea and Strait of Taiwan. Im not saying they have us to rights or anything, but their plan is to focus on asymetric warfare. They are not prepping to fight us on our terms, because that is a fools errand.
I'd call it an interceptor...
Crikey! Saw the thumbnail and yelled: Starscream!!!
I was looking forwards to his next Earth alt interpretation after F15 and F22. Sounds like he’ll still be fast but not as manoeuvrable, a bit chunkier, a seriously heavy hitter and energon-efficient, although possibly a combiner cluster flight with Skywarp and Thundercracker or a host of Minicons.
Cool!
Man the offense i took to you calling the Nighthawk ugly... such an awesome looking aircraft.
I have been waiting Soo long for someone to talk about this. 2:30 thank God.
I am reminded of the Gundam series where one manned craft controlled a large number of automated bits or the mobile dolls from Gundam Wing.
Talking about the psychically controlled Funnels? Except in this case they will be ai, yeah that is what it brought to my mind as well.
one of the best war movies ever is a bomber movie. "The Dam Busters"! it's also nice to hear the ghost bat / loyal wing man system getting a mention. with cooperation between Boeing Australia, Australian defence forces and private corporations, the bat is a solely designed, manufactured and developed in Australia and will be sold to our allies only.
strangely this all reminds me of the shift from surface warfare ships duking it out in LOS to aircraft carriers sending out sorties where the opposing fleets never see each other.
That is an interesting parallel for sure.
Yep, the best way to win a modern war is not to fight it at all.
Hello and Good Morning Simon Happy Sunday
Calling anything Russian “fifth-gen plus” is the most generous terminology I’ve ever seen for a plane with an RCS of a super hornet and that is held together with self-tapping screws.
Of which they have less than 10 btw.
Please tell me that self-tapping screw line was an exaggeration. Surely that can't be real?
9 last I heard. 1 full model and 9 various test models. Well 8, supposedly one was destroyed in a crash.
@@Bigbudd0045 It never fire a missile from its internal bay too.
@@AprehamLincoln From what I saw in an image, the fit and finish on the su-57 is horrible, panel gaps and missing screws can be seen in up close images, but of course, this could be an experimental unit and not a combat ready one.
@@nicholaslee5473 Russian aircraft design has always been more crude and rugged in nature.
They just have a different design philosophy and the truth is we’ll probably never know whether there’s or the US is better because their pilots just aren’t trained well enough for any kind of true test
There is a lot of dogfighting happening if there is no other way that two stealth planes can detect each other but by seeing them.
The detection range of current stealth fighters against ASEA Radar is about 15 miles. That's not BVR anymore.
A few things; giving up maneuverability for dedicated Beyond Visual Range combat is not necessarily going to happen in manned aircraft. For one, if both sides are slinging BVR missiles at each other, it'll come down to which one has the better mix of EW, maneuverability, and decoy systems to throw off said missiles aimed at them. Another thing that counters that conclusion is the addition of laser weapons. The main reason for their inclusion is to move away from a fixed gun while still allowing aircraft to "dogfight" as well as help with shooting down incoming missiles within the laser's area of coverage. A third reason is the hard lessons learned from Vietnam, where even older but more agile aircraft outdid high-end aircraft, and the Top Gun Program and similar other programs training pilots to be still capable of dogfighting as a last resort option. So the need for maneuverability will still be there.
On the subject of NGAD, something you didn't mention was that the USAF is also wanting aircraft proposals to be builder-agnostic; basically, whichever design wins, they want the other two rivals to be able to build said design too, similar to how the US Army bought the JLTV design and just recently gave GM orders to produce more since Oshkosh can't keep up with production needs. This would allow faster surging of next-gen aircraft when-needed as-needed, and also serve as a balance to ensure they get their fleets modernized on-schedule. For the rival companies, it's a trade-off of having to give up some possible trade secrets in exchange for having the winning design and becoming primary builder.
A major advantage of the remarkable people is： perseverance in the adverse and difficult encounter
Surely what defines a jump in generation is when a new threat is significant enough to require the development of a new response to match or best it.
Like how stealth has created anti-stealth and made literally everyone include stealth in their designs. The same thing happened with radar, supersonics and missiles.
We are truly living in the future! Fantastic video, very well researched and presented.
Saw a mock-up of the UK's 'Tempest' at the Air Tattoo last year, it's a beautiful looking aircraft
I liked the design of the F117
It was retired back in 2007
@@jaws666they are in a state where they can be reactivated if needed as far as I'm aware since the airforce still operates a few nighthawks for testing
@@floofles9473 i was ay the Royal International Air Tatoo (R.I.A.T) Airshow back in 2007 at R.A.F Fairford and while they did have 1 in the flying display the commentator from the U.S.A.F. pubicly made the statment thay would be retited by the end of that year
It’s nice but it’s super un aerodynamical. Literally a flying brick
@@jaws666 huh i had heard they weren't technically retired but fair enough
I got the YF-23 video made. You finally made the Thunderbirds video after me pestering you.
I appreciate the aviation videos. My father would have loved your channel!!!!!!!!
Directed energy weapons have been a dream since prior to the original Star Trek series.
1:34 the problem
3:30 sponsorship
4:35 6th gen or vapourware?
13:27 how long until we see one?
19:15 conclusion
Something that has always crossed my mind is if we ever become a well established solar system spanning civilization the trend that NGAD and other 6th gen programs seem to imply translates rather well to what realistic space combat between vessels would look like in the future if it's ever allowed to evolve that far.
Massive engagement ranges, supremely powerful sensors, equally powerful energy weapons and standoff munitions who's ranges are measured in light seconds, enhanced highly secured networking capabilities between different units located in deep space, orbit, and planetary surface, and almost nothing even close to a dogfight between any two vessels
And get I'm still positive there's gonna come a point where at least a pair of opposing vessels are gonna find themselves within CIWS range where they might need to maneuver to get an advantage over one another.
Outside of the military uses, I think one thing this will spawn is the next leap in driverless cars. I have always felt that the current process utilized for cars will hit a wall (pun intended or not), and that eventually for us to hit level 4 and 5 automation, the vehicles will need to talk to each other to proactively maneuver.
trains
ive seen videos exploring this concept before when tesla started getting big and the main large problem with that idea is the fact that a large amount of the population like driving their cars on their own
❤Tesla ⚡️🇺🇸
Ultimately, it is supremely stealthy invisibility that gonna give the edge to ...? Hopefully, us ... for keeps.
This is simply an eye-opening premier to whats just around the corner in this arena.
This sounds like something straight from some sort of mecha anime or some sort of sci-fi shooter game but with the ai becoming corrupted leading to humanity back to the stone age.
Like some kind of deadly network in the sky, a sky-net if you will.
@@ARabidPie yeap or some virus that decides to have an AI vs human species war.
What I like about Halo. AI use is heavily regulated & restrictive to logistical support & strategies advices roles in the UNSC. They NEVER go beyond thier roles without very stricted authorisation from a commanding officer as combatants.
Why the Created uprising fell as quickly as it rosed, the UNSC isn't stupid, they planned for this stuff.
From the background painting, the future of air combat is Starscream....and G1 Starscream at that!!!! suweet!!
The more we lose the human element, the more it worries me. Especially warfare but you need to keep ahead of potential adversaries.
Glad I'm getting older & lived most of my best years
You are by far the best aviation show/video of them all. Actually aerospace to be included on my list. But why the overly dark background, is it really needed......
7:07 After watching the Megaproject put out today on the 6th gen fighter I cannot help but think the B-21 airframe could be used. There was mention of the 6th gen fighter being large, long range with standoff weapons. The B-21 Raider here is long range with modular weapon systems decked out with air to air weapons.. I cannot help but think this B-21 airframe could also be this long-range 6th gen fighter. At about 7:07 of the 6th Gen fighter video pretty much says this. For the Chinese 6th stealth aircraft there was speculation that the stabilizers might be retractable to give added maneuverability as needed. Maybe something like that could help a carrier version for the Navy. I would figure the B-21 to be too large for a carrier.
It is not difficult to find the video of the film footage of a US Navy pilot landing a Marine Corps C-130 tanker on a Forestall class carrier, repeatedly in the early 1960's. Doing so is not a preferred practice, but it is possible. By the way, the pilot got, I believe, a Distinguished Flying Cross for his efforts.
FKIN BEAUTY AINT IT BOYS!?!?! Love all your channels! I learn alot!
The NKC-135A Airborne Laser Lab was a flying laser from the 1960’s and 1970’s that scored air to air kills using lasers
Yes, but that was an incredibly large airframe needed for that single weapon system, that relied on massive chemical tanks that had to be refueled constantly "55 kg (121 lb) to generate one kW " - and you need a thousand times (!!) that amount for a long range shot. The Air Force did not request further funds for the Airborne Laser for 2010; Air Force Chief of Staff Schwartz has said that the system "does not reflect something that is operationally viable"
according to the wikipedia page en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_YAL-1
A modern electric laser that the engines can charge while running on regular fuel is a much much better solution, which is also scalable from mobile short-ranged low output versions to large long-range high-output versions.
@@Mrdardas99
I don’t deny anything you were saying. Point is airborne lasers that have downed flying targets are not new.
Thank you for a such a knowledgeable presentation 🤟
I am an American. I'm reasonably intelligent. When I first heard a U.S. strategist describing the concept of a multi-domain war fighting system, in this case he was describing the early ideas of the F-35, I honestly could not wrap my mind around the comprehensive complexity of it. And now the NGAD is extending the child's play of the F-35 into its own elevation of comprehensive complexity.
Are you black?
@@hikingjoe4752 Are you mauve? What a silly question.
@@jeromebarry1741 haha N
Imagine how terrifying a swarm of drone jets, each specialized to a specific role. Some carry long range missiles, some wield directed energy weapons to shoot down incoming threats, some carry supercomputers that can disable fleets of inferior drones
It sounds like a Protoss mothership spewing out drones and I’m all for it
So, in theory, a number of 6 gen fighters could play the role of spotter as a single raider deployed its weapons load, which can include air to air. All of this, while the raider remains undetected.
I just discovered this channel I love the air content and your style is brilliant
Thx. Keep it up man!!
Well. Hollywood predicted the NGAF's vision in 2005... it could only be more accurate if the internal voice for it is Wentworth Miller!
From what I know, directed energy weapons are already being used in warfare. The AC-130 (allegedly) had one such weapon for frying communications infrastructure. Though why you'd need to do that when you have a Howitzer mounted next to it... XD
I never dealt with any weapon systems but I know back on deployment in 14 we already knew about Chinas hypersonic carrier killers so honestly I wouldn't be surprised if the AF or army were doing something with directed energy idk though I was navy
OMG... That AG1 ad was under a minute! Amazed. More ads like this please. Oh also nice video.
Ah yes a weapon of destruction, that can deliver nuclear weapons.. with a lower environmental impact...
Excellent stuff bro
Truth is, it'll be a swarm of drones with a fighter in control in the middle. It'll be crazy! 😱😂👍🇺🇸
That’s an Arsenal Bird, you’re describing an Arsenal Bird
@@elipeterson8421without carrying the drones sincd they are fighter sized and autonomous
And there’s nothing to say that those drones can’t dogfight and shoot down the target with it’s guns at close range; under AI control…
Any task that requires decision making is about to be gone and it's honestly a good thing. So long as there is a network that can remain secure or theh operate independent from any command and only instructions given before leaving.
Fun Fact,... the prototype/proof of concept ( "Have Blue") for the "catastrophically ugly" F-117 was first flown in 1977 after being developed from 60's era drawings,... So puts things into perspective about the "shakiness" of 6th generation stuff...The reality is, is If they are letting you know that they are thinking about it, Then its already been flown and they are working on that future concept's replacement.
If people don’t think that there is a few operational 6th gen fighters from the US then they’re delusional. US is 100% planning the future of warfare, I assume 7th generation will be the start of autonomous+ regular pilot stuff, I think this generation will coincide with the B-21 acting as an air command hub and obviously the F-XX whatever it is will be like the air troops to that command hub. US said themselves it acts like a satellite, bomber, Hub and deterrent
but wont be whole plane thou, just systems, weapons and engines as frames will last thru more then one upgrade
Funny thing the catastrophically ugly to this day has the smallest radar cross section and it is in service still. Yes it is still in service
I think there is a logical inconsistency with the idea of stealth and dogfighting 'going away.' While stealth does not completely eliminate an aircraft from radar, it does reduce its signature, so even if radar lock is not maintained, I believe AI will be able to inform the pilots (and other AI platforms) the general position (and maybe vector) of the contact, this process will only improve as the AI gets trained on this sort of sensor return. I think this will mean that dogfighting will by necessity return because stand off range will become increasingly difficult due to improvements in stealth design, leading the craft (or at least drone forward scouts) to close the distance. Of course, things might not be as 'knife edge' as before, as perhaps only visual identification will be necessary, but relative maneuverability and AI assistance will be necessary imo, especially co-ordinating drone swarms while being in combat.
That's lovely, I really want the infrastructure improved, instead of more ways to annihilate each other. Love you, Simon!!!
I'm not surprised that a prototype has already flown.
Compared to the tech they're trying to cram in, the airframe is the easy part.
Same claim with the F4 Phantom II, no guns. Did not work out that well.
If your only examples something closer in time to the Red Barons flying circus than modren fighter jets you probably don't actually have a point.
The problem was not that the F-4 phantom couldn’t dogfight. The problem was that they didn’t good identification equipment so they have to get within visual range to identify Aircraft basically nullifying all of the phantom’s strengths, and making it play it’s weaknesses. Even with that by the end of the Vietnam War the Phantom was getting a 13 to 1 Kill ratio in the Navy where they never added guns.
Ask the navy went fine for them something like a 14/1 kill rate
Hey megaprojects! I would suggest putting chapters on your videos for ease of watching and re-watching
6th Gen is all about stealth and auto combat A.I. Robots helping the fighter with some of the exclusive electronics🌟
I don’t see why drones need a human piloted fighter controlling them.
@@TheBooban you basically want the plot of Ace Combat 7 to happen.
And that’s not a good thing
@@TheBooban
Getting orders from a 6th gen fighter jet is a lot more secure, and less laggy, then getting orders from 2000 miles away.
Honestly simons ads are done really well , I may not buy or be interested but good advertisement! Another great video again !!
The US thought dogfighting was dead in the leadup to Vietnam and removed the cannon. That turned out to be a miserable failure.
Didn't the navy have more success with Top Gun rather than adding a cannon?
@@hugoguerreiro1078 they chanced the entire structure of the air force
Just one step closer to the real life Skynet.
We called it "combined arms" in the Marines since it was well established that we could attack "in the air, on land, and sea" as part of our maneuver warfare philosophy, while other branches were still figuring out how to get the tanks, ships, aircraft and troops to do the same in an attempt to transition away from an attrition warfare philosophy. The biggest reason it worked for us is because there was a high emphasis on training and not relying on technology though.
You make it sound as though it's a modern thing. The concept of the "Marine", and indeed the name itself, is nothing new. Marines have existed since long before any practical aircraft, they were always well trained and equipped, and capable of fighting in almost any environment. Quick, reactionary forces have been around for millennia in various forms, used to spearhead assaults by much larger "regular" forces. Historically, the US 'borrowed' the name from the British forces, used back in colonial ti es. As late as WW2, the US sent personnel for joint air, sea and land units to Britain to be trained.
@@another3997 What a Maine is hasn't changed in hundreds of years. What has changed is available weaponry and technology. My point is how the other branches were not considering working as a single entity when implementing most it until only a few decades ago while the Marines have always acted as a such.
Nice propaganda, jarhead. The US military learned "combined arms" from General Douhet and the Nazis. It was not dreamed up by marines. And in WW2 the US Army was doing it very effectively in the Pacific Theatre in combination with both navy and army air force air assets and without any advice from the marines.
Douglas MacArthur was better at "manoeuver warfare" than anyone in the marine corps.
"The marines are nothing more than the navy's police force with a cult of personality greater than Josef Stalin's." Harry S. Truman
Yeah, Truman was a real jerk but that doesn't make him wrong.
@@josephledux8598 That's Marines with capital 'M' and didn't the Germans give us the nick name teufel hunden? Dogface Army LEGs haven't been hard since WWII and with all the friendly fire between the Army and Chair Force over the last 5 decades you would never know they even had any concept of combined arms. Of course nothing is ever dreamed up by the Marines we just happen to do everything better than everyone else, such as training, fighting wars, and getting the job done without retreating for example. As for the Squids they have SEALs doing their policing. We just use their ships as a taxi service. Besides we are to busy being the Presidents own.
"Fighter pilots make movies, bomber pilots make history." NGL first heard this line in the movie: Flight of the Intruder
And if they are all stealthy and jamming each other, they will be back to visual dogfighting with short range infrared missles..
I agree. Its also why I think space for a mounting an internal cannon is a smart idea, like some F-35 variants.
If the enemy is all out of missiles and you are too, can still go in for a kill shot if needed. Plus you could always aim it the old school way... with a mk. I eyeball. If you're good enough... or Tom Cruise.
One sunday morning atround 5am I was outside working on a chicken coup. I was hanging chicken wire over the top of a run when I noticed something coming over the horizon. At first it was a blur but as it flew directly over me it I noticed it had a elongated diamond shape much like the NGAD FX. Mind you its 5a sunday morning, it was dead quiet and I had just witnessed a plane fly from one horizon to the other in about 10 seconds without a decibel made. The jet itself blended with the sky above it perfectly and tge only reason I happened to see it was because I just happened to be looking through the chicken wire right at it.
Always keep hearing the end of the dog fight while other top officials says "these planes might become so hard to lock on that some cocky rookie might just push them into a merge and a dog fight"
They might be invisible on radar but the human eye is much harder to fool.
How do you even plan on shooting an aircraft if you can't lock it ? Even in a dogfight, you are limited to guns only.
And besides, these fighters won't be visible at all. The purpose of stealth in a fighter plane nowadays isn't to be undetected (that is the purpose of a bomber's stealth) but rather for the enemy to take long enough to detect you that you get the first shot
@@onyxfinger7431 You can still lock it with IRs. Stealth is only radar cover. An AIM-9X is gonna lock even an F-35 without much issue. Can't cheat physics, heat will always be generated compared to background.
@@onyxfinger7431 ask the officials I only fly airlines
@@Killerpixel11 yes
My Flight Dynamics Professor is college once said to us "The F117 is proof that if you put a large enough engine on ANYTHING, it'll fly."
They didnt call it the wobbly goblin for nothing.
Every new generation of fighters claims to end dog fights and gets bigger and bigger. Then things actually need to get done and smaller airframes show up with dogfight capabilities.
I think that’s why the f35 can dogfight and why there are so many like a failsafe
So glad i pay TH-cam $18 a month to not have ads to now watching your video that has 2 in a 20 min video
If I were born with better vision, or had the money to correct it; I’d have joined the Navy or Air Force to become a pilot😰 So freaking cool. Retire and become an astronaut!!!
I see what ur saying.
Your lack of intelligence might have had something to do with your faiure.
....you dont join the Navy or Air Force to become a pilot. You have to apply to the academies...which have ridiculously low acceptance rates. You also need a letter of recommendation from a Senator from your state, Congressman, or Governor. Then you have to be at the top of your class, because that dictates who get first choice on assignments. Even then fighter pilot is a popular choice. Its not just having perfect vision, you need a high degree of visual acuity. You could skip the academy and go through ROTC, but your grades are going to matter. My big brother in my college fraternity was a naval aviator through ROTC, but he piloted AWACs (not certain specifically, but some form of radar plane). Another guy also from my undergrad was in ROTC who I knew, he got into the fighter pilot program...but unfortunately died in a training accident during joint training with the airforce (like really early on....graduated may...read about his death in the school paper...i want to say that fall).
I don't remember ever hearing anyone call the F117 ugly before.
Excited ta see if there’s a spacejet design🤙🏿
Huh ?
@@zethloveless7238 he probably means to say " I hope there is a space going version/ design as well"....probably
If I’m not mistaken, there’s an interesting design tension at work here. At scramjet speeds the aircraft would create RF-limiting plasma effects as the aircraft blasts through the air, no? So wanting the aircraft to be more RF-connected would limit how fast it could fly, even if the engines could handle the speed. You can have Mach 7, or you can have networked C2, but you can’t have both…?
Remember, they were working on that technology that could silence a sonic boom. Maybe that has a side effect of allowing less interference?
Do you think that eventually fighters will get so stealthy that it'll loop back around to needing visual confirmation and dogfighting?
Like what if no radar or missile can track them and the only way to shoot them down becomes guns?
your saying that as if other technology doesn't evolve too, it's like saying that soldiers in future will end up melee fighting everywhere because of invisibility technology
I think the opposite eventually radar becomes so good that stealth becomes useless
You mention Battle of Britain and Top Gun as if it’s a slam dunk for fighters. Dambusters, 30 Seconds Over Tokyo and Memphis Belle would like a word with you.
The terrible tragedy is that fast, long range and BVR with advanced avionics, communications and radar were the core of the F23 Black Widow. Those damn lobbyists.
Isn't this the premise from which japan is building their 6th gen fighter?
I know my guy didn't just call the Nighthawk ugly
Simons slippin
Only the USAD NGAD is really proposed to be something beyond what fighters are currently doing; everyone else is just making a bigger, better F-22, but the NGAD is absolutely magic. It's a mother ship.
There have been many attempts to change the way wars are fought throughout history. Many sounded great in theory, but were just flights of fancy from overactive imaginations. They either never materialised, or they failed when applied in the real world. Whilst not unique to them, in modern times, the USA in particular have a history of such things. It's not the first time they've claimed that dogfights are a thing of the past. It may not be the last.
@@another3997 It's not impossible that dogfights will happen again, but it is highly unlikely. Even in Vietnam where that argument comes from, with frankly relatively crude and unreliable first generation missiles, missiles provided the significant majority of shoot downs especially for the Navy after TOPGUN was created and tactics were revised. Missiles have only become significantly longer ranged, considerably more maneuverable, and overall far harder to evade or otherwise defeat since then. There may be some perfect storm of elements that causes more dogfights, again I fully admit that's possible. But I can't really see an argument for that becoming the norm.
I don’t think your thumbnail AI has ever seen a plane before
I have no faith that leadership (civilian or military) won't negate much future technology with restrictive ROE, such as requiring positive visual ID or being shot at before being able to shoot back.
And I could also see a submarine raising an antenna and jamming communications/datalinks/GPS/etc just as an over water air battle was to begin, sending us right back to 1v1 or 2v2 dogfighting.
Really good argument.
I was actually thinking some thing similar. The detection and jamming tech might get so advanced we get right back to dogfighting
We already have 40th gen out, we call them tic tac’s
Since when do the F-22 and F-35 not interface with surveillance/radar from a variety of air/ground sources in order to have such long-range strike capabilities?
He doesn’t understand modern sensor fusion and data link.
I'm currently remodeling a historically important telescope outside of Tucson AZ, and on/off I'll hear some sort of fast moving jet without seeing what's making the noise. At all, and I'm on one of the highest points of this place, clear skies for miles.. The big thing is, I never see what's making the noise. It's a given that you can't run afterburners over populated areas. What's lesser known, is this particular observatory (and probably other, idfk), is highly restricted air space. Which begs the question, what can run afterburners without being spotted? And before the questions come flowing in, I remember when they outlawed afterburners above occupied land because jets from Davis Monthan would blow the effin windows out of my parents house regularly. So I know what fast movers sound like, and you usually don't make that much of a racket without using afterburners or something faster and just as loud..
The very concept of stealth means reducing detection which in a peer to peer contest with very capable stealth systems, the opponents won’t be able to detect each other at long or intermediate range. They will see each other at short range which is a dog fight. The rules of engagement requiring identification of the target also helps to negate stealths advantages. The greatest value of stealth is in an all out conflict/world war. Regional conflicts with rules of engagement encumbering the technology neuters it.
The rules of engagement would still apply in a world war? you still need to know if it’s friend or foe?
@@trevoncowen9198 Current technology is enough to identify at long range. So ROE won't be effective
@@Boomkokogamez if they are using a version of stealth that is just as good as the version that we use then how
Right On great show
I don't believe 6th generation fighter jets will throw maneuverability in the trash. It's such a simple and useful ability to have. We've seen 4th gen jets literally dodge surface to air missiles. If stealth fails you need a backup plan and physically avoiding threats is the most obvious solution.
In the real world, tactics are often dictated as much by what businesses can/want to produce as what actually works from a military perspective. Which means that it doesn't matter if maneuverability is desirable if none of the 6th gen planes that get built are actually maneuverable. Tactics are dictated by the weapons you have, not the weapons you want.
I notice controlling "drones" is the part of the six generation fighter. Then China has already beat us with the two person J20 variant that came out in 2021...Stupid US Politicians are the blame again for hiding shit...like they funded COVID 19 virus in China....
Very Nice
I love the irony of how the thumbnail is AI generated
I seem to recall that similar claims to the death of dogfighting capabilities were said prior to Vietnam. The military of the day discovered that dogfighting was still needed in some circumstances and the aircraft of the day couldn’t
The REAL question is will 6th gen fighters TRANSFORM?
The era of Macross fighters is nigh!