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Stop Hurting my Pilot Friends! Aircraft Crash & Safety Talk Mike Patey | Josh Flowers | Juan Browne
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ม.ค. 2024
- A DEEP DIVE Discussion into The Airplane OR the Pilot Causing Crashes
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Mike Patey
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Josh Flowers
/ @aviation101
Juan Brown
/ @blancolirio
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Mike's message about speed increases vs weight increases and how it makes you a true test pilot needs to be seen by every builder and experimental owner. Incredibly valuable information in this video.
Thank You. This... is why I brought that topic up. It seems to be a growing "idea" among Builders these days for some reason. I would love to have him on again and do a deep dive on some of these other topics that we barely touched on (mechanically and engineering). Thank You for taking the time to watch today!
not supposed to be test pilots - especially for non-engineers
I love this line the best from Juan
“keep the trolls from storming the gates”
So true
Forget the metrics of "shorter is better", if anyone doesn't want a deep dive then they can skip thru to the parts they like. Long videos are better, long conversations allow real discussion to happen. This was a fantastic video, thanks for sharing and for the hard work. Safety is by far the most important thing we should all be talking about!
We had a new pilot do a go-around at the airport a little while back, and later that day I congratulated him on his great decision to go around and the reason why didn't matter one bit. He will remember that conversation forever when contemplating a go-around.
A go around is not an emergency procedure
@@cjswa6473 Depends. If they prevent an accident, or collision, etc. They are. It is like an "Emergency Rejected Landing".
@@cjswa6473why are you trying to close down a discussion that might save a life. We get it, you are the best pilot ever, and us mere mortals are way beneath you.
I live next to an airport. I hear go-arounds frequently. Also hear the bouncing landings.
Brian, THANK YOU for such an important and informative discussion with the experts on Flight safety. You raised the awareness of all of us to the subject and practice of safety in every aspect of aviation. Thank you again and Best Regards to you and your family. Wayne Whitley
I did the dumbest thing in an airplane last week. I’ve never done this before, and it has really made me angry at myself. I am currently working towards my commercial certificate. I have 300 hours in SEL, complex, and high performance aircraft. I got distracted and didn’t call out, AND CONFIRM, my pre takeoff check…”lights, camera, action” when I was cleared to take the runway. I didn’t push the mixture forward (after leaning for taxi). SO STUPID! Thankfully, I had my instructor onboard and he gave me a funny look to remind me of my error. This has really made me think I can’t trust myself, even though I’ve never made this mistake before (that’s why it is so important to visually verify and run the checklists). I owe it to my family to do better. Hopefully I won’t ever make a stupid mistake like that again. Aviation is too unforgiving and often the test is given before the lesson is learned. I appreciate all the aviation TH-cam content these days. It has helped me to learn from everyone’s experiences.
Happy to hear that you had an instructor there that was paying attention. By the book. Always by the book. Which means a checklist. Too much going on in the cockpit to always remember everything. Thank you for sharing that story.
Respect.
Also be aware of distractions, anything that can disrupt your routine, for example to miss a checklist item. Poor design and placement (in certified aircraft) of controls, fuel valves and switches can compound small errors into big ones. As said here, exceeding limits on weight or use of flight controls in certain conditions can make you a test pilot without the big paycheck.
Mistakes are part of human behavior. We are not robots, machines, or computers. Airplanes are NOT designed with this in mind. They are always and invariably made as complex as possibly conceivable for their given requirements.
(Single-lever power is giant leap in the right direction brought on by ECUs, mostly because its harder to control an engine by manual means when it has an ECU).
But even automatic mixture could have been implemented on Civil aircraft 75+ years ago. Another is automatic carb heat, which is a rudimentary simple concept that would have saved, possibly 10,000 or more lives, and has never been implemented. Auto mixture was a feature on many aircraft in 1941. Just never made it into pipers and Cessnas.
Automatic carb heat would be simple to control from a Venturi temp probe and OAT sensor. They could also connect the stall horn signal wire to the autopilot disconnect. And send the signal to a warning light on the top of the dash which reads "stall!" "Reduce AoA!" These could have been around for 75+ years. But no.
It is workload and therefore must be placed on the overwhelmed pilot, because that is how we do things.
I agree, GA is way behind in implementing systems improvements, poor human factors design contributes to many accidents. Costs of re-certification has slowed or stopped improvements that could be made to existing aircraft designs and help to improve safety. @@EllipsisAircraft
I appreciate you all taking the time to present this. Always keep learning!
As a glider instructor and powered aircraft CPL holder I would say that glider experience is useful but not a substitute for engine failure practice in the aircraft you fly. Gliders typically have a sink rate of about 200ft/min but a powered aircraft sinks at 1000-2000+ft/min. That is such big change I don’t think you can think about it the same way. In a glider you have lots of time the evaluate and think. In a powered aircraft you don’t have much time.
Don’t forget to take into account though our actual off field landing experience in random fields most won’t have. Also most actually committing to a field are under 1000ft or less than five minutes from putting it down.
A glider pilot will probably experience less panic when the engine stops - at least that was what happened when we flew RC. People who had flown gliders mostly just saw a dead stick landing as a landing with a really lousy glider. I had the same feeling when my instructor shut off the fuel, no panic, just "where can we plonk this thing down".
VERY RIGHT. You dont need a glider to practice gliding. You can do 270 overhead approaches glides, 180 Short Approach Glides or even learn the 270 Hook Turnback too. I used to teach those 3 glides on Cherokees when CFI in the 1990's. Gliders glide too shallow and mild angle to really scare you as needed so you learn how to glide and not panic or freeze. We need those maneuvers for calculated gliding turns to a precise touchdown point. Glide practice to control your Fears. Too many i see get too nervous in gliding turns. Lose coordination, perspective, freeze, or do Panic Pulls. Practice those 3 gliding maneuvers above. They are a lot of fun to do.
Well, maybe. I’m a 3000+xc glider guy that moved into power fixed wing, then motor gliders. I still always look for fields the same way at 10 to 1 or 50 to 1. Yep, there’s less time but after landing out 20 times it becomes natural. Or your chances become better informed.
Glider experience actually has saved numerous lives, including the “Gimli Glider” and others!
This was a great discussion - and a few of the points really hit home with me. Mike's point at around 50:00 is poignant; I made a decision in one of my videos to turn around and seek a safety airport because I was in zero vis forest fire smoke. I didn't have a clear picture of where the fires were, and the situation on the ground and in the air was changing fast. The other planes I was flying with applauded my decision and offered help... but the armchair trolls in the comment section ripped me apart for turning back.
Again around 58:00 talking about the lack of mechanical understanding of our aircraft - one of the best things for me as a pilot was spending a year working with my mechanic, tearing apart and rebuilding my aircraft. I now have a much better understanding than the pilot who just drops off the plane for repairs without learning.
Mad, mad respect for all of you saying things that should be part of the curriculum at every training facility nationwide or worldwide. It's something every potential pilot needs to hear.❤ I think this video is among the absolute best that I have ever seen. Thank you.
Mike made an excellent comment about added weight to an aircraft! At some point I'm sure I'll be a test pilot for one of my airplane designs... BUT before that happens you can be absolutely sure the crafts CG will be checked and rechecked just to be safe for all involved.
I have been following Mike, Josh and Juan for a long time. Scott Perdue is also very good. Before you tube, cell phones and personal computers, I relied on FSS, education of weather, math and physics to learn how to fly safely. I received my private in 1979. I learned to fly before I learned to drive. Besides learning those things, I believe the survival mode is a very important part of the equation. With all the education of the latter and making an educated decision to fly, when the unexpected happens, the survival part needs to step in. I have pushed myself out of my comfort zone as often as possible, in a safe environment, in order to be prepared for the time something goes wrong in an unsafe environment. Weather I am in the air, skiing, swimming, driving, etcetera. Like Mike has mentioned, you need to respond immediately. That will determine if you will survive of die. Complacency does not work. Training never ends. Constant simulated emergency training goes a long way.
Don’t worry about the length of this video, this content will save lives. I enjoyed the what each of the members of the panel contributed here, especially the tone and spirit in which it was delivered. I also enjoy the content they regularly share on their own channels. I understand the shorter video algorithm but please, also throw up these long form discussions occasionally as well! Great job all involved!
"Stay off Juan's Channel" should be a shirt!
Lol, but true! I'd wear one!
I wouldn’t mind being on his channel as part of the 1% success stories.
What a great collection of minds and truly passionate aviators! Gentlemen keep up your great work of helping others learn and respect the art and science of flight!
I definitely have to agree heavily with Mike on the maintenance aspect we have the same complacency, the same degradation of training and a lot of the same issues you see in the pilot community. We are always learning and we must always strive to try to know and learn the things we don’t know yet.
To all 4 of you !!!!
Thank you for taking the time to share experience, knowledge, and inspiration to help understand and ways to condition others for a time we Pray/hope never happens.
Thanks Guys !!!! Your my hero's
Matthew
Maybe the best 1:23 I've spent on TH-cam. Thanks for the real, practical, down to earth discussion on methods and attitudes that can improve our flying and save our lives. Great to see so many comments reflecting the same sentiment. Thanks Bryan, Mike, Josh, and Juan.
I love your comments Mike about using the (Cirrus) chute. back in the 80's during my skydive days, I had two reserve rides. :^) if anything starts to go amuck - sniveling, slow opening, twisted lines, or you're lower than normal, and the timing isn't right, dump it and use the reserve. Fellow jumpers would never make negative comments about another jumper using a reserve. It was unusual of course, but we all knew that safety was the key, and trusted each others judgement accordingly. Anyone making negative comments about someone using the chute in the Cirrus probably haven't been in a similar situation and should just shut up. :^)
Cirrus has never had an inflight breakup. The saves are mostly due to incapacitated pilots, or flight into IMC. If the aircraft lost a wing, the speed would rapidly exceed the airframe parachutes rating. There have been many fatalities due to classic stall/spin and the chute was never deployed, though this is where it is most valuable. At Oh point Five Angles in a spin.
Great videos Brian. Love the channel. Just want to comment about the data logging on the turbine engines. Anyone who can afford to operate a turbine should absolutely have no issue with the added cost of engine data recording. Added cost is not a valid excuse. Let's face it, if it's a commercial operation the extra expense will simply be passed on to the customer. If it's a private individual they obviously have plenty of money anyway. Next issue is the CFI problem that seems to be getting worse. We have to clamp down on these instructors that are incompetent . The Jenny Blaylock crash could have been prevented if she hadn't been issued a pilot certificate. Her videos alone show that she was not competent as PIC of an airplane. I personally have had experience with incompetent instructors. In my case I had an instructor that simply despised having to be an instructor. It was the only job he could get to build hours. I understand this is typical but what a backwards system we have! The most inexperienced pilots teaching new pilots! Even sounds crazy. Keep up the good work Brian and hurry up and finish your airplane! Lol.
I was a commercial pilot for almost 40 years. I believe I’m seeing a degrading of the whole process of flight experience as you all had mentioned. I think it brought on by a number of factors. You all have touched on most of those. I think there is a real disconnect when it comes to the Principle of cause-and-effect. I’m not sure why that is. Maybe it’s too much Hollywood. I think we have the idea that we can push the limits and get away with it. Sadly Paul Walker from the series of movies, fast and furious was in a car where the guy was stunting around. he lost his life because of it. A Young pilot I was training. asked me if you always had a little bit of fear when you were flying. I said no. Not fear, but you have to be constantly aware that you are in a metal tube, full of people and flammable liquid flying very fast above the earth. There seems to be a real misunderstanding or about what keeps an airplane in the air. Computers and gadgets are all well and good, but you still have to be able to keep the airplane in the air by the principles Aerodynamics. I think we all agree that each flight needs to be taken seriously. my last job as a charter captain, I made a special point of focusing on the last approach and landing of the day. I usually did more than required to ensure a safe landing especially because we were tired at that point in the day.
I think all of us would do well to take our flying up a notch. Hopefully by example as experience pilots, the new ones coming along, we have an understanding of the risk as well as the joy of being a professional pilot.
Great comments, James. Your description of the metal tube filled with pax, and fuel, is especially good. After 20, as a navy carrier jock, and 30 in the aluminum tubes, and check airman plus GA, I don't have fear, but I do have a great deal of respect for how quick the 'hours of boredom' can change to "stark raving terror" and train myself and others to be prepared. Bravo Zulu.
And the chute thing is an excellent point. Lived end of story!
Well done, Bryan. This session was absolutely awesome. I'm inspired to go practice forced landings more, continue learning, and build more safety into my flying habits. Safe flight.
❤ I absolutely love and respect your episode on your channel. It is one of the best episodes I've ever seen on your channel. It should be a must for every future and present pilot to see. Specially when certain kit aircraft makers selling kits like hot cakes ( the new versions of Orange County Choppers) everybody wants one, the new fab. Thank you for your contribution to Aviation and possibly saving lives in the process.
Thank you all for your contributions. Good content.
Safety starts at the beginning of everyday. Great video watched it until the end.
4 point seat belts & helmets… Cheap cheap updates. 100% cheap.
However more important… Training training training
BearHawk Biulder WILCO !
Past glider pilots over 300 hours, single and multi pilot thousands hour had total engine failure in my Mooney M20A a night while flying from Ottawa airport to carp airport about 40 miles climber to 8000feet, at night had flight I structure helping me with ILS train , total engine failure about ha.f way, made it to carp airport with 2000 ft left did a circling .approach over the center airport was bit high on final side slipped in and landing safely. The glider experience really paid of, I also practised and new the over L over D of this aircraft and the best glide speed, this is example glider training really paid of, also was glider tow pilot with 500 hours towing.towing . love this change new bottom line good tearing and maintenence is the secret to safety, Christopher Ottawa Canada now 85 and retired
36:08 = VERY RIGHT. You dont need a glider to practice gliding. You can do 270 overhead approaches glides, 180 Short Approach Glides or even learn the 270 Hook Turnback too. I used to teach those 3 glides on Cherokees when CFI in the 1990's. Gliders glide too shallow and mild angle to really scare you as needed so you learn how to glide and not panic or freeze. You need gliding turns to a precise touchdown point. Glide practice to control your Fears. Too many i see get too nervous in gliding turns. Lose coordination, perspective, freeze, or do Panic Pulls. Practice those 3 gliding maneuvers above. They are a lot of fun to do.
Exactly! It's called airmanship. And as you say, it is FUN!
All of you guys are pillars in the community and bring so much to it. You can certainly change the thought process about learning and sharing and it can only help. But guys have egos and it does take a confident guy to share mistakes. You can't do it when your dead, so passion and a platform is the start.
Safe knights of the round table! Thank you! Please consider doing roundtable discussions on safety, on the regular, round robin on each guy's channel!
Great idea. I'd tune in for sure.
First of all I am grateful for you guys stepping up to address these issues! Also I would love to hear Mike expand on the engineering aspect of changing plans etc without proper engineering etc! Thank you gentlemen again for this.
What was aviation before Mike Patey? Finally it will be a safe world when pilots listen and heed his esteemed advice of 20 years as a pilot. He is our general aviation tail twister with his insane aircraft designs and stunts and now all of the sudden with the deaths of his four friends , he becomes our czar of aviation safety!
@@ushouldntjudgeme3683 Look man somehow watching Mike's content reignites a fire in people with all things aviation. So why not capture this to help more pilots and other folks in aviation? I say let's get to work! We are all free to learn and grow...
It’s called experimental aviation for a reason. People have the right to experiment.
One of the best General Aviation safety discussion I’ve seen on social media.
I emphasize this, when it comes to an emergency and at that time you as the pilot came to the conclusion that you are unable to make a runway or an available landing area and your only option is to pull the parachute that is available in your aircraft I say pull it and live to see another day.
We/you/me/us can replace things
But we can replace life.
I appreciate this video so much and I’m with the 3 strikes NO fly concept!!!
Also helmets and 4 point harness for back country flying.
Much love to all💖💖💖
Thank you! Appreciate your feedback! :-)
So "well" put together panel of excellent knowledgeable aviators who have no problem communicating the message. Excellent! I am glad I watched the whole video. CFIAM/A&P JOE COVINO. Lake Havasu, Arizona.
Thanks you Joe! I appreciate the feedback. I was quite surprised that I was able to get in touch with all of them, AND that all of them were willing to jump on the interview at the same time. It was truly an honor to have them all giving wisdom.
Excellent vid, my dad was a fighter pilot and also flew GA planes, can’t tell you how many times we had a plane out and put back because there was something not up to his standards. Sometimes we didn’t even start it. And I can’t tell you how many times we had to “ turn or underwear inside outside” has he use to say because we not going today when we were on a trip. So I quickly learned to have a couple extra sets of underwear on a trip. Been in the plane run up checks are fine and half way the runway he shut it down because he didn’t like the way a gauge was reading, and we drove or didn’t go. You just don’t pull over if you’ve got a problem. Heck we’ve even been on trips were he checked the weather at the hotel it’s great we load up head to the airport and he checked it again and said we’re not flying today and then had to go find another hotel because the one just left didn’t have rooms. Mikes strike rules are excellent and all pilots should adopt them. YOU JUST DONT PULL OVER CUZ YOU HAVE A PROBLEM! Those are words that my dad drilled into us. And be prepared to not go.
In aviation when in doubt leave it out.
In other words if there is an issue prior to your departure, abort reset regroup
If you've got time to spare, go by air.
Mike makes a great point on pulling chutes. I feel like I would love to have that as an option if i was in that situation.
As a non pilot but car racer, I see general recreational aviation like auto racing, some what optional / there are manageable risks / don't become complacent / DON"T PANIC / continue to drive the car until the crunching stops.
As a recreational motorcycle racer and currently a student pilot, yes.
I am very happy that I learned from an old school instructor who taught that every landing should be a power-off landing to touchdown. That is how we ALWAYS landed, except when we couldn’t at a controlled field. So, I was always familiar with the gliding capability of the airplane I was flying. We need to get back to basics like this and train pilots and controllers to bring GA aircraft in on close down winds such that every approach can be a power-off approach to touchdown.
Great job guys! Love the insights and the discussions. Keep up the great work. Cheers from your Canadian neighbors!
Great video mate. It’s important to review these topics from time to time as a self check on how we are all travelling in this industry. Human factors is a topic that is misunderstood but so important.Especially with a generation of lesser experienced people coming in to aviation.
Funny, Bryan, just as you were talking how safety topics were mostly outside your scope for this channel, I was thinking, "why? Just do it!", then all the guys said "make it part of your content" Damn the attention span, pilots will watch it, that is your audience.
Fantastic conversation and video. Now I know more of what of I didn't know. Thank you
How’d you get Mike to sit in one place that long?!?! 😜
Easy. We talk about Airplanes! :-)
Good one 😂
Josh's comment about glider vs powered flight was spot-on! I was very current in a high performance glider and then got instruction to get current again in a 172. The instructor pulled the power back on the 172 and said, "OK, where are you going to land???" I picked out a beautiful field and started approaching it. That "beautiful field" started rising in the windscreen faster and faster." The instructor looked over at me and grinned, "You're thinking like a glider pilot. This is a 172 ... you need to pick a field almost right under you!" LOL!
Glide ratio on a 172 is 10 or 12 to one depending on lading. An old DC 8 apparently is better than a 172
Give one of the STOL planes a try. I fly a Zenith CH 701 STOL that's so draggy that you can almost drop your keys from the plane and follow it down. A Cessna 172 is an excellent glider in comparison.
What a coincidence - I built and fly a Zenith CH 750 STOL and you're absolutely correct about the gliding characteristics ... or lack of same! LOL!@@markthibault8579
I think far more attention needs to be given to the condition of flight school planes. We’ve had two accidents at our local airport in the past week and we’ve seen others this week in the surrounding areas. The condition of many of these planes is despicable.
The best safety wake-up-call video ever. Thanks guys.
I hadn’t heard of the loss of Richard McSpadden. Gratitude “Spad” for everything you taught aviators.
Excellent insight into our present aviation industry. I've seen too many accidents recently that could have been avoided.
Thanks, Bryan, Mike, Josh, and Juan.
Incredible discussion. Had no idea this broadcast would be so interesting. Mike said to set your plane down if there is the slightest hiccup in response to Josh’s 400 rpm drop on takeoff which they kept on flying. A race car driver friend of mine had his pilot fly him from a race. His plane was in the shop so he rented one. Well, the plane he rented died a couple times on startup and ran a little rough but he took it anyway. The plane’s engine quit over the mountain range between Mojave, Ca. and Bakersfield, Ca. They had to set it down in the rocky sagebrush of that mountain range. They both lived.
.
This is a very welcomed, necessary conversation among pilots who have a wealth of experience to share with us.
Re: helmets, Mentour Pilot recently made a video about the first fatality in powered flight and the lessons learned from it, and the lesson learned was, "Wear helmets," because the observer passenger who died likely would have survived had he been wearing one.
The circumstances that made helmets a good idea in the Wright Flyer might not apply to all aviation activity (wearing helmets in airliners just seems silly), but it still makes an enormous amount of sense to retain that lesson in situations (like STOL/bush flying) that more closely replicate those circumstances.
Great discussion, Bryan.
We're all over the world, and absorbing every bit of input from all of you.
Thank you.
The best video with the best content I have seen today. Definitely watching this multiple times. So much good here. Thanks for doing this and see you at Sun and Fun.
All I wanna know is, how can I hang out with Mike PATEY!?? What a rockstar! I wish every pilot had his type of mindset
I also idolize Mike Patey but I wouldn’t want to hang out with him… I’m sure the man is already pulled in a hundred different directions, why would I want ant to add to his stress? Just so I can make myself happy? I feel the same way about actors and athletes… If you like them leave them alone….
I was riveted to this WHOLE video. While I enjoyed everyones presentation I did want to add something I never thought about. Mikes comment to engine out set the point in gliding dead stick of where the pilot , just like in the pattern then glide down base and final. I earned my ppl age 17 solowed age 16. It was done in sentral New Jersey where there was always farm land and fields. That was always for engine out training. I had instructors that loved to pull the throttle back. Well I just wanted to say that a month after ppl earning, the family moved to NH, well there’s only trees, highways, and ponds. Jimmie Cricket 🦗 on my shoulder said I had to FAR- fly high enough to be able to effect a safe landing. It should be said more often. I love you all for sharing your experience!
This video has really blessed me. I lost two close friends last year. Thank you for posting.
Shoulder harnesses is an easy cheap but big added safety. Added them to my 66’ 150
Great discussion! It’s too bad engines for aviation can’t be built to modern standards like high quality car engines that run 15 years without a single issue. I watched a video by Paul Bertorelli who espoused this. But since we still use dangerous tetraethyl lead in AV gas, it appears we will be stuck in the early 1960’s for years longer.
Super important, essential to what we do, thank you all for doing this and please keep it going. Mike's 3 strike rule is brilliant. Best hour I've spent in TH-cam by far. More of this please gents!
Such a true statement when faced with unexpected challenges : Will I show up or throw up.
This was a long video but well worth it. I listened over three days but encourage watching the entire discussion. I’m a student pilot with just over 40 hours (2.4 pic) and the cirrus with the parachute was one of the aircraft that inspired me to earn my ppl cert at over 60 years old. I’m all about safety, ADM and electronic resources that can help me be a safer pilot. I embrace the full gamut of safety. Thanks for all the insight.
Great points and experts on Avation... Thanks for there information.
Great forum, Bryan. Thank you.
Thank you for the feedback!
There are enormous underlying factors in play as well -- psychology and world view of pilots, CFIs, training organizations, FAA; American culture that values independence and accomplishment more than accountability; media that rewards sensationalism; you get the idea. Also, all of the various subsets of the aviation community have tremendous variations within them. Then there's the whole idea of risk/reward, what risks are worth taking for what rewards. Along those lines, general aviation flying is so diverse in so many ways that standardization, a major risk reducer, often does not apply. And don't forget the various financial interests. Yes, some of these concepts are touchy-feely, loosey-goosey, but they still apply. As you might guess, I have decades of experience in aviation safety analysis, including PhD, ATP/CFII.
I watch Juan weekly. Hi Juan. And hello to the other guys. I’ll check you guys out too.
Mike Patey, if I weren’t a 61 year old student, I’d seek you out as a mentor. You’re such an inspiration. Thanks for sharing your experiences. And I’ve adopted your “3 strike” personals.
it is with enormous trepidation that I comment here. You guys have earned enormous, and genuinely earned respect. I'm just an 85 yr old, retired, 16K, driver. Ag pilot for 15 years in rice country, in addtion to other time as charter, CFI, ferry ... etc. . With all common ratings. MEL, CFI, IFR. The one tremendous objection, observation I have here ... ???? If I read it correctly, most of the commentary regards "home built", experimental airframes. One abiding, iron-clad rule I held throughout my career, was NEVER, ever, put my butt in any home built machine!! There are/were just too many issues that were simply NOT properly cintrolled, COULD not be controlled. The engineering, the manufacture, the fuel systems and power plants, even sometimes the fundamental aeronautical engineering, that go into commercially/military manufactured airplanes ... is very often (though certainly not always) just not there with many "homebuilts". Yes, those with the resources who could afford manufactured airframes, likely may also possess the wisdom, discipline, and know-how to "build their own". But ... I suspect a very large percentage of "home builders" have ONLY as their driven operating principal, and primary impetus above all else .... is risk all, including sometimes, including others, **JUST TO FLY**!!! The classic "Icarus" syndrome! At all costs. I had maybe a half dozen dire, potentially life threatening emergencies. Most of them I survived by airmanship. A couple, one in particular, I survived ONLY due to the outstanding, robust airframe of a "commercially" made airframe. (Was a Bull Stearman!) I do empathize with the driven desire to fly. Always wondered, (never found an answer) about the WHY so many of us HAVE to fly. seem to be born to fly. Some, clearly, at the risk and cost of life. I seperated that driven desire to fly, from the absolutely imperative requirements of safety, aeronautical skill, and plain ol' common sense. Does anyone ever question the motives that drive 'homebuilders' .... aside from the love of flying? Really great, and detailed video ... need more down-to-earth coimmentary like this ... maybe it may help sober some of the more driven folks to 'think twice' about jumping into aviation without extremely careful consideration of what it really takes.
Watched the whole thing. Great content and discussion. May we all focus even more on safety this year. Thanks for bringing these great people together.
Here in Germany, UL aircraft (mostly 472.5 and 600 kg MTOW, e.g. Ikarus C42, VL-3 Evolution, Aerolite 120, etc.) are required to have a complete aircraft parachute.
That was great, All of you are great guys.
Here's the thing. As pilots, and I speak from the perspective of someone who got his private in 1974 and went on from there, we all will make mistakes. Unfortunately, there are times when those mistakes are fatal. The study of accidents and what caused them at every opportunity will improve the odds but there are times when the deck is stacked against you, period. Lots of really good drivers are involved in automobile accidents that end up taking their lives due to their, or someone else's, mistake.
I 100% appreciated your perspective and agree with you. I just personally wanted to know this as sort of a "Health Check" and then share with with you all. Many things people do in life are a little risky, yet they (we) still continue with it. Risk Vs Reward. It is a very personal decision for everyone. I also just don't want to paint a picture of Fun and Games if there is true risk involved or at least spell that out. For the new ones joining us. Thanks for watching!
Related to Mike's comment about Recording Data:
To mandate it would make aviation cost prohibitive to a larger segment of the aviation community.
If the Govt subsidized the purchase/installation of recording equipment, then more people would choose to install the equipment. And they would have an aircraft worth more money based on 1st the monitoring equipment, but also the verifiable history of the engine. Data recorders would benefit all aspects of GA.
If the Govt is truly interested in GA safety, they should work to drive down equipment costs so aircraft may be updated with current technology.
Thank you! The obvious answer is that Mike should have bought a new engine and paid for his own data logger. Making it a requirement for everyone else just because his quit is so disingenuous. Basically he is saying he wants everyone to have to pay more money so that when he cheaps out to buy a way used PT-6 he can blame someone else when it quits.
I’m new in aviation and currently working on my PPL. Great video!!!!! Wealth of positive information!!!!
Truly outstanding presentation. You have saved some lives. Great choice of presenters. Bravo Zulu.
Great job guys! Just curious to why no one mentioned Dan Gryder and his teaching of AQP? ❤
Fantastic: accolades rather than embarrassment! Mike Patey is the real deal as are all you guys.
Thanks Bryan, ,Mike, Josh and Juan, for the best aviation video that I have seen on TH-cam. Our Airmans certificate is a license to learn . There is no one that knows it all. The pilot we should look up to, is humble, always learning, and not afraid to make the decision to fly or no fly, take off is an optiion landing is inevitable. As the old saying goes, what goes up, must come down,
I agree as a rule about not showing up on sir Juan's channel. There has been a few where someone had a Engine out and did everything right. I will Subscribe to Mike and your channel. Thanks to all 4 of you for all the work you put in for Safety.
David
Whilst Mike in his support of having engine monitoring stated that there is an additional cost to engine data logging . I have seen 3 incidents in the last couple of years in a relatively small fleet of Caravans where having the engine recorder prevented unnecessary major engine disassembly because Pilots reported exceedences but could not be certain of the extent of the exceedence. A couple of these would have caused engine removals in very remote areas .
its as safe as we make it,GA has a much higher accident rate than part 121 which is heavily regulated. You need a serious mindset at all times, never let your guard down.
Thanks so much Brian for hosting such a helpful and informative forum. This is a must see for all GA pilots. These are busy people and are obviously passionate about safety to put aside the hour and a half to do this. While I'm very familiar with the other guests, I recognized Juan Browne first due to his ceiling fan 😀
A lot of experience on this panel. Like Juan says….train, train, train and nurture your skill set as you progress. Your muscle memory will take over in an abnormal or full blown emergency. The plane is only as safe as the guy/gal in the pilots seat!
Mike starting Glider training! Great!
A fantastic motorcycle instructor once told me while discussing emergency maneuvers. “You don’t rise to the occasion, you fall to your training.”
You guys are a breath of fresh air!You just might save us!Pilot 52 years!!Private land!You guys are just like my instructors!court tower!!Checked out in 15 types!
2 engine out’s and got down safely!Got into IMC up North Maine in a snow storm!Freak snow squall 0 visibility for 28 minutes!Bravo you 4!Fat knowledge Boys thank you I subscribed!👍🏻
Man I took this totally differently. It seemed like a bunch of ‘holier than thou’ to me. They take risks, who are they to tell others they can’t.
I recall hearing about a pilot who had his engine give some vibration and miss early into a flight ,called into an airport to land. Meanwhile the engine soothed out so he canceled the landing. This happened multiple times. If I remember correctly he ended up with a dead stick landing with a very damaged engine. I'm sorry I don't recall where he landed. But the point is remember thinking when he decided to keep flying the first time, "WHAT ARE YOU Thinking??!!!! There are no turnouts up there! I am not a pilot,I have had some lessons some things I remember is never panic (it will kill you) fly the plane all the way to the ground, never ignore the plane, it will talk to you.
This was an outstanding video - Thank You!! There were many take-aways for me; I think one of my favorites is sharing your mistakes with others. Not only can it benefit others but I think that when you share it, you own it and it helps you yourself get more from the experience.
This was a GREAT conversation. Many points resonated with me. If you're on the fence about whether this discussion is worth having, fear not. Take the time and pay close attention.
Such a good video. I love seeing all of you discussing safety and analysis.
Thx much guys.❤
There is a lot of great new technology that enhances safety of flight, but as one of you mentioned early in the discussion, most GA aircraft are from an era that automobile enthusiasts call “vintage”. Retrofitting new digital with old analog is difficult and usually expensive, if not impossible.
Great discussion!
Thank you. This was a great video. I have met many a pilot that thinks declaring an emergency is your last result. Thank you for not extending the myth. Every one of those pilots thinks the FAA will take your license or your plane or something bad. Please talk more about what happens after the emergency is declared, and demystify the fear. Thanks again!
LONG TIME FOLLOWER OF ALL THOSE CHANELS!! :) have a great one!!
STAY SAFE
STAY ALIVE
MAKE GOOD CHOICES !!!!
LOVE JOY COMPASSION
Mandatory recording of engines is a no. Here's how freedom works. You have the option to not buy an aircraft that does not have a recording engine monitor. If people really want it the market will drive it. Anything mandatory is not only a no, but mandatory ensures it will be very expensive.
Great watching these by the way thanks!
Ive been around aircraft my whole life, 😊my dad worked with bob hoover, planes can be safe, pilots can be safe, problem is a small problem with either can end badly quickly at any moment,great show ,thank you
Hey Bryan Im one of Williams Wynns minions and I want to thank you for bringing this conversation to your channel, i think it fits in very well with Williams philophy on safety and using real experts in guidance in building aircraft.
A fascinating discussion thanks for posting. Just a point on data recording. Aprilia in Italy, who manufacture motorcycles, already have real time uplink data recording on their larger motorcycles. There is no "Handbook with stamps on annual services" This is all done remotely and specific engine data is uplinked to the company every time you start the engine. (So said the dealer I bought an Aprilia Motorcycle from recently.) This is current and available technology. Also it does not add any significant cost to the motorcycle. At every annual service, the dealer is able to see what you have been doing.
Many of the safety mechanical things being discussed here have been used in AG aircraft for Decades. 4 way harnesses - crash helmets - cockpit superstructure- crush seat mounts- and shoulder harness with airbags.
👍✅Very, very good conversation, tks everyone. So much talent and experience here!
This was great. Aspiring pilot and I watched the entire thing. Appreciate all of the points informed by incredible experience. I watch all four channels. Thank you for sharing this.
Absolutely a TON of info and knowledge in this vlog. Thank you for putting this together!!!