I have 3 of the e2000's with two expandable batterys and 2 e600's and one dual fuel champion generator that ran for the full week w/o power after Milton hit Tampa. I charged them with 1800 watts of solar as well. No problems pecrons are affordable and well built! My next toy is that e3600 its a beast! I did not need the champion at all thankfully. Get expandable battery's you will extend that run time substantially and the pecron will be more efficent because the extra bats don't drain like the inverter does on the main unit. You can hook a lot of solar into that e3600. Pecrons bats can take in solar as well they have charge controllers built in them. If you are in Fl. or some other states A1 solar has great deals on brand new panels.
Just can't beat hands-on experience and reporting! This is the way to go. You get so much flexibility with the power station in the loop. Just being able to leave the generator turned off much of the time is a big deal. Generators tend to be most efficient at 50% load, that's very typical for generators and you pretty much proved it in your tests. In any case, your experience is how most power stations with a UPS mode work. The UPS mode is just a relay that connects/disconnects the AC input to the AC output. The inverter can either charge the battery (by running in reverse... typically its a hybrid inverter inside the power station), or it can operate the AC outputs by discharging the battery, but not both. And it can't help with the AC outputs while the mains are connected through because the inverter in the power station is not designed to do that (to be synchronized to the mains and to be able to augment the power). Just not part of its design. Having solar reduces your generator's fuel consumption even more. Going full-on with discrete gear: Solar, charge controllers, batteries, inverter, and battery charger more or less removes all the restrictions you have with power stations. All the various pieces can run concurrently without any penalties. -Matt
What about if your off grid 100% of the time? Is this set up at a disadvantage to discreet gear if you’re only using solar full time and the generator to charge during cloudy weather?
@@tkettle5991 Power Station would be at a disadvantage if automatic generator start/stop is desired, because there is no way to tell the generator to start and stop based on the battery level inside the power station. There are a few power stations that might have the ability to control an external relay that way, but it isn't something generally found in power stations. Also the power station will be switching UPS mode on and off and prioritize generator power (which might not be clean) when it is running. With discrete gear controlling a generator is completely trivial. Something like the "EG4 Chargeverter" is all you need. It is a battery charger designed to take dirty generator power in and charge a discrete battery bank (48V bank), and it also has dry contacts for generator control. Hybrid inverters + discrete gear are also often able to control a generator and may even have dedicated generator terminals. -Matt
@@junkerzn7312 I have to think about how automatic I want all this to be. While my cabin if full time off grid it’s not for full time use. It will be fun to figure out the optimal system for my needs as I go and since I already have the 3600 and 1 expansion battery I’ll use it and try to upgrade when it makes sense. This is as much a weekend experiment as it is an only the best will do project. I will check into all of the devices you mentioned, sounds fascinating for sure. It always feels good to have adaptable infrastructure without losing your shirt!
@@tkettle5991 In an application where people might not be present much of the time, you will need to consider "vampire" consumption. For example if the inverter's AC output is left turned on, some power is consumed continuously 24x7 just by being on, even if there are no loads. Anywhere from 10W to 60W depending on the size and manufacturer of inverter. For example, 20W of vampire consumption eats 20W x 24h = 480 watt-hours (Wh) of energy per day. DC-DC converters, or just direct (energized) connections to the battery, on the other-hand, have a vampire consumption that is far lower, often less than 1W. Charge controllers and other active components in the system also have their own idle/vampire consumption, typically less than 1W. Various appliances that you decide you have to leave on, such as a fridge or some night lighting, will also have a certain amount of active consumption. You need to determine how many watt-hours a day they consume. -- You have to weigh all of that against the "poor weather" energy production you will get from the solar panels and ensure that you have enough solar such that the battery is not likely to drain to zero while the cabin is unattended. In good weather with good sun you can usually count on Solar-panel-wattage x 4 watt-hours a day. e.g. if you have 4 x 100W panels for 400W worth of panels, this would be 400W x 4h = 1600 watt-hours a day from solar. In POOR weather you can usually only count on 1/10th of that... 400W worth of panels might produce as little as 160 watt-hours a day. So use those rules of thumb to gauge how much energy your solar panels will give you and weigh it against consumption. If you construct your systems and appliances such that you have a great deal of margin between what the panels will produce in poor weather and what the cabin needs when nobody is there, then you can leave the generator turned completely off while the cabin is unattended without too much worry. -- When people are present, the best-case setup is to only have to run the generator for 1-2 hours once a day (such as in the late afternoon / early-evening), in the worst case weather conditions, to top-off the batteries. And then to have enough storage for 24 hours of regular use without having to run the generator further in that period. You can use this rule of thumb to figure out how much battery storage you need (separately from how much solar you need), or at least so you know what trade-offs you are making if you can't afford that much storage. Generally speaking being 100% off-grid without needing a generator most of the time, in decent kitchen comfort, and with hot water, requires a pretty large solar + battery system. Without A/C or heating, count on needing several thousand watts worth of solar panels and at least 10 kWh worth of battery storage. -Matt
I have a class B RV with a 13500 btu unit that I can run using my EcoFlow Delta Max 2000 with my a/c plug adapter from 30 amp to 15amp. Through Testing I found out that it is not the wattage that shuts down the EcoFlow or trips it but the amperage. Based on how you were running your generator it is a could possibility that you were not providing enough amperage to keep the a/c going, or the portable a/c was starting on high cool exceeding the amperage of the generator, especially if it was on eco mode. I usually run my a/c on low fan, than high fan, than low cool and finally high cool, waiting about 35 seconds between states to allow the current to stabilize. Just my 2¢.
Try setting the ac charge rate lower like 10% first on E3600LFP and with AC running, then start generator and walk the charge rate up incrementally. I think it may be a balancing issue in start up.
We did pretty well with the 1500LFP + expansion battery. We did fridge/CPAP/fan and occasionally internet and was usually at 40-50% in the morning where we would use solar to recharge(ground array 1200w). We could run our window AC unit, but we're afraid we would be out of power for a week or more. We were only out until Friday night here in central Florida. Did you find it better to stay wide open for an hour vs. using eco mode and rubbing the generator for longer periods of time?
@nicktroendle3972 I set the charge rate at fifty percent using the standard plug to get the unit recharged. Then, I let it pass through power until the generator died. I'd expect about seven hundred watts would be the most effective charge setting for fuel economy. That's something I plan on testing in a future video. I'd also like to get a solar setup and take those same appliances off the grid indefinitely. I am waiting to purchase solar panels until I get my expansion batteries. I'm thinking 395W byfacial panels. Those seemed to meet all of the specifications for the unit. I'll need 10 of them.
@@hickshomestead113I think the Pecron 3600 will only accept 2400w of solar. Why do you need 10 of the 395w Bifacial panels?Is that because the panels aren’t efficient enough or in low light conditions? I know they’re very affordable if you by in lots of 10 minimum at Signature Solar per Will Prowse’s recommendation .
@@tkettle5991 sure, it will detect when AC power is flowing and turn on ups mode. Works with smart plugs as well, although you would probably wanted a heavy gauge one. My 1500lfp can also handle a window unit fine, the inverter ones like mideas or LG run well and ramp up slowly.
Are you able to pass-through charge while using the gas generator? It’s my understanding that you should be able to output up to 1800W while connected to your generator with the 15A cable and up to 3200W using the 30A cable. Any output less than that would go towards charging the battery. Correct? The issue you had with the AC makes me wonder what the problem is.
Yes! If my total load was 600W and I had my charging set to 100 percent, i would see a total load on the generator of around 1800W with 600W going to loads, and the other 600W going into the battery. I can't wait to get a solar setup to test charging and using AC power at the same time! I've seen in other videos where it prioritizes solar over a generator and grid charging. I'd really like to validate that for myself.
FYI it’s not great for the inverter board on the generator to cut power at full load. Gen manufacturers suggest starting genny then adding load and removing load before shutting it down. My E3600lfp with firman dual fuel genny kept us going during Helene, great combo.
@@hickshomestead113 I can't have solar yet and I ordered two E3600LFPs for 220VAC so I can hook up direct to my house 220VAC and not have extension cords everywhere but I can't use pass-throguh mode with the AC charging plugs since the AC inputs are disabled by Pecron. Until I can do solar, I'm going to have to buy AC to DC converters and use the DC solar input to charge my batteries in 220VAC mode with my generator. My Wen 4800 Gen is a 3600 watt constant output so I'm going to have to try to supply 1800 watts through the solar DC inputs per E3600LFP for now.
Will it charge from a non-inverter generator? I have a Generac whole-home that I want to be able to turn-off and run from battery for a while. I've read that EG4 inverters don't like non-inverter generator power, so I'm curious about the Pecron. Thanks
Seems like a hassle if I'm being honest. I'd rather just run a big-ass generator 24/7. The $1500 or so that you spent on that PPS would buy a lot of fuel.
I have been through several major hurricanes and power outages. A few lessons learned: Generators use a lot of fuel. Most critical loads are intermittent. For example a typical refrigerator has about a 40% duty cycle. The portable power stations are great for meeting this requirement. Yes, they are not cheap. However, I find that they can effectively extend the duration that I can run my portable generator by days when compared to running my generator alone. Here is my real world experience from Hurricane Helene: I had only 20 gallons of fuel on hand. The closest gas station to get ethanol free gas that was open and had power was over 40 miles away. Had I run the generator continually for the event I would get around 60 hours of run time. With the E3600LFP I get about 24 hours of run time without using any fuel. It takes less than 2 hours to recharge using the generator at 50% load. At that load I get around 10 hours of generator run time. That equates to 5 recharge cycles per tank of fuel or 120 hours of running my critical loads vs about 60 hours using the generator alone. With only 20 gallons of gas I could recharge the Pecron E3600LFP about 25 times or 50 hours of generator run time. A key point to consider is that 60% of the time the generator would just be running with little to no load on it, wasting fuel. Using the E3600LFP with my small generator I could achieve an ideal endurance of 600 hours vs only 60 with the same amount of fuel.
That is 100% correct! However, the app has a few issues staying connected. Hopefully that will get fixed in the next update. It would be great to monitor the Pecron remotely over the internet.
I have 3 of the e2000's with two expandable batterys and 2 e600's and one dual fuel champion generator that ran for the full week w/o power after Milton hit Tampa. I charged them with 1800 watts of solar as well. No problems pecrons are affordable and well built! My next toy is that e3600 its a beast! I did not need the champion at all thankfully. Get expandable battery's you will extend that run time substantially and the pecron will be more efficent because the extra bats don't drain like the inverter does on the main unit. You can hook a lot of solar into that e3600. Pecrons bats can take in solar as well they have charge controllers built in them. If you are in Fl. or some other states A1 solar has great deals on brand new panels.
Just can't beat hands-on experience and reporting! This is the way to go. You get so much flexibility with the power station in the loop. Just being able to leave the generator turned off much of the time is a big deal. Generators tend to be most efficient at 50% load, that's very typical for generators and you pretty much proved it in your tests.
In any case, your experience is how most power stations with a UPS mode work. The UPS mode is just a relay that connects/disconnects the AC input to the AC output. The inverter can either charge the battery (by running in reverse... typically its a hybrid inverter inside the power station), or it can operate the AC outputs by discharging the battery, but not both. And it can't help with the AC outputs while the mains are connected through because the inverter in the power station is not designed to do that (to be synchronized to the mains and to be able to augment the power). Just not part of its design.
Having solar reduces your generator's fuel consumption even more.
Going full-on with discrete gear: Solar, charge controllers, batteries, inverter, and battery charger more or less removes all the restrictions you have with power stations. All the various pieces can run concurrently without any penalties.
-Matt
What about if your off grid 100% of the time? Is this set up at a disadvantage to discreet gear if you’re only using solar full time and the generator to charge during cloudy weather?
@@tkettle5991 Power Station would be at a disadvantage if automatic generator start/stop is desired, because there is no way to tell the generator to start and stop based on the battery level inside the power station. There are a few power stations that might have the ability to control an external relay that way, but it isn't something generally found in power stations. Also the power station will be switching UPS mode on and off and prioritize generator power (which might not be clean) when it is running.
With discrete gear controlling a generator is completely trivial. Something like the "EG4 Chargeverter" is all you need. It is a battery charger designed to take dirty generator power in and charge a discrete battery bank (48V bank), and it also has dry contacts for generator control.
Hybrid inverters + discrete gear are also often able to control a generator and may even have dedicated generator terminals.
-Matt
@@junkerzn7312 I have to think about how automatic I want all this to be. While my cabin if full time off grid it’s not for full time use. It will be fun to figure out the optimal system for my needs as I go and since I already have the 3600 and 1 expansion battery I’ll use it and try to upgrade when it makes sense. This is as much a weekend experiment as it is an only the best will do project. I will check into all of the devices you mentioned, sounds fascinating for sure. It always feels good to have adaptable infrastructure without losing your shirt!
@@tkettle5991 In an application where people might not be present much of the time, you will need to consider "vampire" consumption. For example if the inverter's AC output is left turned on, some power is consumed continuously 24x7 just by being on, even if there are no loads. Anywhere from 10W to 60W depending on the size and manufacturer of inverter.
For example, 20W of vampire consumption eats 20W x 24h = 480 watt-hours (Wh) of energy per day.
DC-DC converters, or just direct (energized) connections to the battery, on the other-hand, have a vampire consumption that is far lower, often less than 1W.
Charge controllers and other active components in the system also have their own idle/vampire consumption, typically less than 1W.
Various appliances that you decide you have to leave on, such as a fridge or some night lighting, will also have a certain amount of active consumption. You need to determine how many watt-hours a day they consume.
--
You have to weigh all of that against the "poor weather" energy production you will get from the solar panels and ensure that you have enough solar such that the battery is not likely to drain to zero while the cabin is unattended.
In good weather with good sun you can usually count on Solar-panel-wattage x 4 watt-hours a day. e.g. if you have 4 x 100W panels for 400W worth of panels, this would be 400W x 4h = 1600 watt-hours a day from solar.
In POOR weather you can usually only count on 1/10th of that... 400W worth of panels might produce as little as 160 watt-hours a day.
So use those rules of thumb to gauge how much energy your solar panels will give you and weigh it against consumption.
If you construct your systems and appliances such that you have a great deal of margin between what the panels will produce in poor weather and what the cabin needs when nobody is there, then you can leave the generator turned completely off while the cabin is unattended without too much worry.
--
When people are present, the best-case setup is to only have to run the generator for 1-2 hours once a day (such as in the late afternoon / early-evening), in the worst case weather conditions, to top-off the batteries. And then to have enough storage for 24 hours of regular use without having to run the generator further in that period.
You can use this rule of thumb to figure out how much battery storage you need (separately from how much solar you need), or at least so you know what trade-offs you are making if you can't afford that much storage.
Generally speaking being 100% off-grid without needing a generator most of the time, in decent kitchen comfort, and with hot water, requires a pretty large solar + battery system. Without A/C or heating, count on needing several thousand watts worth of solar panels and at least 10 kWh worth of battery storage.
-Matt
Good video definitely do another update video please
I have a class B RV with a 13500 btu unit that I can run using my EcoFlow Delta Max 2000 with my a/c plug adapter from 30 amp to 15amp. Through Testing I found out that it is not the wattage that shuts down the EcoFlow or trips it but the amperage. Based on how you were running your generator it is a could possibility that you were not providing enough amperage to keep the a/c going, or the portable a/c was starting on high cool exceeding the amperage of the generator, especially if it was on eco mode. I usually run my a/c on low fan, than high fan, than low cool and finally high cool, waiting about 35 seconds between states to allow the current to stabilize. Just my 2¢.
Just a simple suggestion, buy a small AC for one room use in an emergency.
on the list
Totally. I love those cooler-style DC fridges that run off 12v.
well done learn a lot
Try setting the ac charge rate lower like 10% first on E3600LFP and with AC running, then start generator and walk the charge rate up incrementally. I think it may be a balancing issue in start up.
Good stuff thanks!
We did pretty well with the 1500LFP + expansion battery. We did fridge/CPAP/fan and occasionally internet and was usually at 40-50% in the morning where we would use solar to recharge(ground array 1200w). We could run our window AC unit, but we're afraid we would be out of power for a week or more. We were only out until Friday night here in central Florida.
Did you find it better to stay wide open for an hour vs. using eco mode and rubbing the generator for longer periods of time?
@nicktroendle3972 I set the charge rate at fifty percent using the standard plug to get the unit recharged. Then, I let it pass through power until the generator died. I'd expect about seven hundred watts would be the most effective charge setting for fuel economy. That's something I plan on testing in a future video. I'd also like to get a solar setup and take those same appliances off the grid indefinitely. I am waiting to purchase solar panels until I get my expansion batteries. I'm thinking 395W byfacial panels. Those seemed to meet all of the specifications for the unit. I'll need 10 of them.
@@hickshomestead113I think the Pecron 3600 will only accept 2400w of solar. Why do you need 10 of the 395w Bifacial panels?Is that because the panels aren’t efficient enough or in low light conditions? I know they’re very affordable if you by in lots of 10 minimum at Signature Solar per Will Prowse’s recommendation .
I’m wondering if the
Pecron 3600 will run a portable ac with 2400w of solar charging with the generator hooked up but turned off?
@@tkettle5991 if you can fit the volts/amps it will be far easier to max out the 2400w on a daily basis, you just need like 50-60% sunlight
@@tkettle5991 sure, it will detect when AC power is flowing and turn on ups mode. Works with smart plugs as well, although you would probably wanted a heavy gauge one. My 1500lfp can also handle a window unit fine, the inverter ones like mideas or LG run well and ramp up slowly.
Are you able to pass-through charge while using the gas generator? It’s my understanding that you should be able to output up to 1800W while connected to your generator with the 15A cable and up to 3200W using the 30A cable. Any output less than that would go towards charging the battery. Correct? The issue you had with the AC makes me wonder what the problem is.
Yes! If my total load was 600W and I had my charging set to 100 percent, i would see a total load on the generator of around 1800W with 600W going to loads, and the other 600W going into the battery. I can't wait to get a solar setup to test charging and using AC power at the same time! I've seen in other videos where it prioritizes solar over a generator and grid charging. I'd really like to validate that for myself.
FYI it’s not great for the inverter board on the generator to cut power at full load. Gen manufacturers suggest starting genny then adding load and removing load before shutting it down. My E3600lfp with firman dual fuel genny kept us going during Helene, great combo.
@@hickshomestead113 I can't have solar yet and I ordered two E3600LFPs for 220VAC so I can hook up direct to my house 220VAC and not have extension cords everywhere but I can't use pass-throguh mode with the AC charging plugs since the AC inputs are disabled by Pecron. Until I can do solar, I'm going to have to buy AC to DC converters and use the DC solar input to charge my batteries in 220VAC mode with my generator. My Wen 4800 Gen is a 3600 watt constant output so I'm going to have to try to supply 1800 watts through the solar DC inputs per E3600LFP for now.
Will it charge from a non-inverter generator?
I have a Generac whole-home that I want to be able to turn-off and run from battery for a while.
I've read that EG4 inverters don't like non-inverter generator power, so I'm curious about the Pecron. Thanks
Yes, it will. I have a regular generator as well.
My plan is to use propane to charge my pecron’s if sun is out
Ahh, interesting, when in pass through it’s only utilizing the power of the generator including the surge limit.
Seems like a hassle if I'm being honest. I'd rather just run a big-ass generator 24/7. The $1500 or so that you spent on that PPS would buy a lot of fuel.
I have been through several major hurricanes and power outages. A few lessons learned: Generators use a lot of fuel. Most critical loads are intermittent. For example a typical refrigerator has about a 40% duty cycle. The portable power stations are great for meeting this requirement. Yes, they are not cheap. However, I find that they can effectively extend the duration that I can run my portable generator by days when compared to running my generator alone. Here is my real world experience from Hurricane Helene: I had only 20 gallons of fuel on hand. The closest gas station to get ethanol free gas that was open and had power was over 40 miles away. Had I run the generator continually for the event I would get around 60 hours of run time. With the E3600LFP I get about 24 hours of run time without using any fuel. It takes less than 2 hours to recharge using the generator at 50% load. At that load I get around 10 hours of generator run time. That equates to 5 recharge cycles per tank of fuel or 120 hours of running my critical loads vs about 60 hours using the generator alone. With only 20 gallons of gas I could recharge the Pecron E3600LFP about 25 times or 50 hours of generator run time. A key point to consider is that 60% of the time the generator would just be running with little to no load on it, wasting fuel. Using the E3600LFP with my small generator I could achieve an ideal endurance of 600 hours vs only 60 with the same amount of fuel.
What if gas goes to 10 bucks a gallon, you couldn't afford to run a big a.. generator
You could use your app and not have to go through all the steps
That is 100% correct! However, the app has a few issues staying connected. Hopefully that will get fixed in the next update. It would be great to monitor the Pecron remotely over the internet.
Plus the app doesn’t let you change the charging input. The app has just basic settings.
You need to exercise more, you were panting like running a marathon.
You're not wrong, lol. I did just carry my generator from my barn.