Some of the unfinished shots shown here look better than the scenes in the final film. You wanna know why? Because they hadn't added the stupid bloom filter yet.
Gustavo Conde I feel like the bloom effect was added in specifically to hide some of the imperfections in the CGI as well as the props and costuming. In the bluray versions of the LotR films you can sometimes make out where the makeup and costumes were applied on. Too bad the bloom just ends up being super distracting.
***** en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom_%28shader_effect%29 gangles.ca/images/bloom/bloom-oblivion_full.jpg Basically, it illuminates certain things. For example: fires, lit torches, reflective objects. Gives it a ''glow'' effect.
apotheos1s I agree. I find it unnecesary and abusive and makes it look fake. But specially like an 8-bit over-exposed image. Also, glow is not meant to be used all the time or to hide the lack of detail, like they did in the hobbit... in my opinion.
Without Weta, we wouldn't see LOTR or Hobbit on screen in its full magical glory. But in my honest opinion, even though most of this is amazing because of how advanced technology has got these days, I remember back in the LOTR rings days when they rendered and blended real locations, miniatures, live action sets and practical effects. Now all your see is CGI. It took away that realism I still feel for LOTR because you go and watch those movies, Middle-Earth is REAL! You watch the last 2 Hobbit films, you feel like you're watching a crystal clear computer animated Middle-Earth.
I see a lot of people dissing Weta for the Bloom/Diffusion effects added to the overall film... I definitely agree that it was used too much, and was a poor decision. However this process was primarily done in color grading, and a result of art direction (although compositors may have been asked to add some as well). In a Variety interview with Peter Jackson, he states that the decision to soften the image was done because people had complained that Unexpected Journey looked too much like "HD video". I personally disagree with this decision, as I felt like AUJ looked more authentic and realistic. The bloom effect, along with the 48fps capture and overall catering to stereoscopic 3D viewing all come together to make this feel more "gamey" in nature, at least for me. The CGI work is astounding, even if the film used it perhaps in an over abundance. It's unfortunate that the final films get the game-cinematic reputation because of the decision to overuse diffusion effects.
@@alexanderwindh4830 referring to the glow you can see on everything in the latter two films. It doesn’t look bad, but it creatively separates it from the previous movies in my opinion.
I remember when I watched lotr behind the scenes and how peter explained that the battle on the mordor gate was filmed on a fucking minefield because they could not find any better spot, and I was so amazed how much effort were out into those movies...............And that he farts out this shit ten years later.
All the bloom effects you guys added made it look so much worse, and the color correction was abused so much that there wasnt any real color left, just a shit ton of bloom everywhere. Its sad, because these animations and models are so good, and it could have made the movie alot more fun to look at if it wasnt for all that crap. Lets try and make movies look good and real again.
I didn't buy any of it. The camera movements are so elaborate, it takes you out of the movie. Look at Two Towers. You can understand the blocking for Helms Deep. Camera sweeps over REAL models made sense. Booms, cranes, steadicam, dolly and track, even helicopters were all believable. As soon as a camera goes through the action, it destroys the illusion. It's as if everything was shot with a drone! How was it more difficult to make the Hobbit than Lord of the Rings, that you need all these crazy camera movements?
Yeah. Like ALL the shots in Polar Express. There's no real ground to hold on to. It have to be inspired in reality or you notice that you are seeing a movie in theathers with people around you.
If thinking the camera is on an helicopter does not take you out of the movie but virtual camera does, this is a culture & habit problem. Hopefully younger viewers will be able to avoid such considerations :)
I'm more curious about what they're talking about at 0:45 about the brickmaps being able to be placed individually by the compositing artist. I understand how to output the brickmaps from Renderman (I know they use Manuca), but I looked up their compositing app of choice on their website and it looks like nuke. So now I'm confused as to how they're bringing that data in.
I think that it is absolutely disgraceful how practically all of the awards ignored the movie, they spend so much time on it and work so hard on it for it to just be snubbed! I absolutely loved the movie, it was amazing!
Agree. Whilst technically less advanced, LotR's CGI actually looked far more convincing because it was only used when it had to be used, and it always had to be integrated into scenes with physical sets, real actors, and real camera movements. It *had* to look real, and it did. With the Hobbit, so many of the scenes are 100% CGI, so with nothing in the scene to ground them in reality, the whole thing seems videogamey, weightless, and fake.
MisterGibbycrumbles You are totally right! I mean, is it just me or are the LOTR orcs scarier than the Hobbit ones? Its because sometimes the real thing is the most realistic. But then again you have to consider all those orc costumes and huge sets must have cost much more money than just animating it. To be honest the battle of the five armies was (in my opinion) the most entertaining though despite 15% of it was actually filmed with a camera.
True that! Remember that LOTR's film grain also helped blend the real and the cgi together. Overall I still don't quite understand what the hell went wrong here... as MisterGibbycrumbles says its the BLOOM that makes it soo video gameish... but might be the render engine too?
Dan Roland Yeah, well many video games use this ''bloom'' effect + video games are all cgi,,, just like the battles in the last hobbit. What an mistake... But Jackson was either too tired to get out of the studio to shoot a real battle or he really thought that copy-pasting 80,000 soldiers in cgi land was going to look better than 300 people fighting on a field (Battle at the Black Gate)
Increadible amount of work! Does anybody know what software they used? Specifically, did the use a game engine in order to combine all the modeling, vfx, enviroments, animations, textures, etc, or they just used an all in one program, such as 3ds max?
They used a lot of different software, some of which is commercial and a lot written by their own programmers. They've wouldn't use a game engine, except perhaps in early animatics, and it certainly wasn't all done in 3ds Max.
I know since this is a late reply so it isn't relevant as before, but I'm not sure if they will (anytime soon). They are really good at CGI and material properties, simulations, but they specialize in how complex it actually is to make those effects, which would lag out a regular console I believe, a PC perhaps as well (might be wrong).
Advection357 Where can you learn this stuff besides film school? I understand the keyframe suits and turning that into the CGI character, but where do you go from there? And for large battles like that, did the have to choreograph hundreds of individual fights?
***** Most professional 3D apps have crowd simulation tools... so say, you can take a few animated sequences.. and apply it to 100's of characters.. and it automates a lot of things, like offsetting the animation timings (so they don't all look all the same, like a nazi army martch hehe) What is your understanding of 3D apps... do you use any? FYI: Weta uses Maya for most of their 3D stuff...
***** For these specific battles scenes, I couldn't tell you how they did it, because it's most probably an industry secret for Weta. But if I had to guess, I would say they used animation mixes for each character... one part driven by the crowd simulator (automated, for running etc) and the next part switching to choreographed fight sequence when 2 opposing characters collide. Most of it would probably require scripting behaviors etc... and that's over my head. I'm a 3D generalist, but animation/scripting isn't my strongest point... sorry I can't help you beyond this guess.
Why werent the houses just generated procedurally with some tweaks and values. Instead of just Modeling 1500 different houses? You could stick with a few houses for close-up images where you would see all the detail
it's pretty obvious that in the Hobbit movies Weta Digital were under massive crunch time! the CGI in the big battles look... unfinished, like a video game cutscene. it's like Smaug sucked half their pipeline... if only Warner Bros gave Peter Jackson more time.
Вот зря добавили мультяшность картинки, серьезно. Сделали бы чуть помрачнее и оставили бы версию без этой мультяшности - срубили бы "Оскаров", отвечаю. Было бы эпичней и ближе к духу "Властелина Колец".
I can see the amazing amount of work that went in to this, hats off to all the artists BUT it still looks a bit cartoonish. I suppose that was the creative descision, but it just took me out of the movie, never felt real.
@@indago1 that's your opinion and I don't agree at all. I suppose you feel this way more because of the color grading than than the actual cgi. And anyway, I don't care if the movie feels a little cartoonish, considering it's an adaptation of a literal children's book.
@@zh7334 We all have our own opinions. That's fair. Our eyes see different. There is no right or wrong, it's subjective. So if it looks good to you, great.
This looks like a video game in the worst sense. It looks a pass or two from finished but ironically, it probably has an extra pass or two messing it up.
I know there were TONS of hard, excellent work by talented people put on this, but at the end of the day, it all looks like console gaming 3d, and not a live action movie with supposed realism. The CGI sets look like scale models, the color grading is way too fake, the bloom effect is TERRIBLE and it takes you away from the action all the time. They achieved better in LOTR :/
@@zh7334 lol. Lotr was mainly practical with paintings & cgi to enhance it. You referred to lotr as all cgi but then you said the battle. So what is it?
after rewatching this CGI mess it didn't age well at all. still can't get over the fact how artificial and plastic everything looks. especially smaug and the lava
That is your opinion, I know many people who love this movie and I also know many people who don't like this movie or haven't seen it for one reason or another. Me, personally, wasn't disappointed with it, and enjoyed it at many moments and I am willing to buy the EE version to add to my middle earth marathon.
![The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies [ strategies and tactics in the book ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rq-aT7PaGfI/mqdefault.jpg)
![“อ.เบียร์ คนตื่นธรรม” มาตามคำเรียกร้อง แหกศาสตร์ฮวงจุ้ย เตือนสติอย่างมงาย | แฉ 7 พ.ย. 67 [1/3]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5fc4S3xBNfc/mqdefault.jpg)
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 86 | คู่เอก "คมเพชร vs ชาติพยัคฆ์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/m3q_dRYDuU8/mqdefault.jpg)
Those effects are much more complex than I relized
Yet they still looked like shit... :(
Some of the unfinished shots shown here look better than the scenes in the final film.
You wanna know why? Because they hadn't added the stupid bloom filter yet.
I know right! Why theres so much of this blurry effect in this movies? Specially in desolation of smaug. But not in an unexpected journey
Gustavo Conde I feel like the bloom effect was added in specifically to hide some of the imperfections in the CGI as well as the props and costuming. In the bluray versions of the LotR films you can sometimes make out where the makeup and costumes were applied on.
Too bad the bloom just ends up being super distracting.
***** en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom_%28shader_effect%29
gangles.ca/images/bloom/bloom-oblivion_full.jpg
Basically, it illuminates certain things. For example: fires, lit torches, reflective objects. Gives it a ''glow'' effect.
apotheos1s I agree. I find it unnecesary and abusive and makes it look fake. But specially like an 8-bit over-exposed image. Also, glow is not meant to be used all the time or to hide the lack of detail, like they did in the hobbit... in my opinion.
Where is the bloom effect mentioned in the video?
Without Weta, we wouldn't see LOTR or Hobbit on screen in its full magical glory. But in my honest opinion, even though most of this is amazing because of how advanced technology has got these days, I remember back in the LOTR rings days when they rendered and blended real locations, miniatures, live action sets and practical effects. Now all your see is CGI. It took away that realism I still feel for LOTR because you go and watch those movies, Middle-Earth is REAL! You watch the last 2 Hobbit films, you feel like you're watching a crystal clear computer animated Middle-Earth.
I agree with you, lets hope the new amazon series is different than this. Using real locations and lights like the GOT.
I see a lot of people dissing Weta for the Bloom/Diffusion effects added to the overall film... I definitely agree that it was used too much, and was a poor decision. However this process was primarily done in color grading, and a result of art direction (although compositors may have been asked to add some as well).
In a Variety interview with Peter Jackson, he states that the decision to soften the image was done because people had complained that Unexpected Journey looked too much like "HD video". I personally disagree with this decision, as I felt like AUJ looked more authentic and realistic. The bloom effect, along with the 48fps capture and overall catering to stereoscopic 3D viewing all come together to make this feel more "gamey" in nature, at least for me.
The CGI work is astounding, even if the film used it perhaps in an over abundance. It's unfortunate that the final films get the game-cinematic reputation because of the decision to overuse diffusion effects.
Bloom diffusion?
@@alexanderwindh4830 referring to the glow you can see on everything in the latter two films. It doesn’t look bad, but it creatively separates it from the previous movies in my opinion.
Amazing Work and Amazing Breakdown, great inspiration!
Amazing
2:35 Finally I can see which parts of that rumble battle belonged to who! ^^
I remember when I watched lotr behind the scenes and how peter explained that the battle on the mordor gate was filmed on a fucking minefield because they could not find any better spot, and I was so amazed how much effort were out into those movies...............And that he farts out this shit ten years later.
Well Done Weta!!!!! Show us more videos on the making of The Hobbit please!
Glad that there's some sound in it now!
I can barely make one decent looking building and they made thousands.
Now, extrude some cubes ;)
Yes LOTR had more (realistic in its own filmway) CGI to it.. But stop complaining about the Hobbit(s)! They looked really amazing in its own way!
All the bloom effects you guys added made it look so much worse, and the color correction was abused so much that there wasnt any real color left, just a shit ton of bloom everywhere. Its sad, because these animations and models are so good, and it could have made the movie alot more fun to look at if it wasnt for all that crap.
Lets try and make movies look good and real again.
I didn't buy any of it. The camera movements are so elaborate, it takes you out of the movie. Look at Two Towers. You can understand the blocking for Helms Deep. Camera sweeps over REAL models made sense. Booms, cranes, steadicam, dolly and track, even helicopters were all believable. As soon as a camera goes through the action, it destroys the illusion. It's as if everything was shot with a drone! How was it more difficult to make the Hobbit than Lord of the Rings, that you need all these crazy camera movements?
Yeah. that's the problem with CGI. CGI got no limits, so the film makers need to set their own.
Yeah. Like ALL the shots in Polar Express. There's no real ground to hold on to. It have to be inspired in reality or you notice that you are seeing a movie in theathers with people around you.
If thinking the camera is on an helicopter does not take you out of the movie but virtual camera does, this is a culture & habit problem. Hopefully younger viewers will be able to avoid such considerations :)
What's with that terrible "vaseline on the lens" bloom/glow/blur effect that's plastered over most of the shots? It looks god awful!
Wish they would do a video covering the sound effects.
I'm more curious about what they're talking about at 0:45 about the brickmaps being able to be placed individually by the compositing artist. I understand how to output the brickmaps from Renderman (I know they use Manuca), but I looked up their compositing app of choice on their website and it looks like nuke. So now I'm confused as to how they're bringing that data in.
the Art of Vfx..amazing Weta!
There is just truly something vital you cannot get with CGI.
0:34 - 0:45 they should've decided with those angles to show smaug destroying Lake-Town
"Apart from those of us working on the DVD" I love that humour
“A tale...full of sound and fury, / Signifying nothing.”
I think that it is absolutely disgraceful how practically all of the awards ignored the movie, they spend so much time on it and work so hard on it for it to just be snubbed!
I absolutely loved the movie, it was amazing!
Bad cgi is when you notice it.
Man, they should use these in the Total war series!
bloom overkill
LOTR had more convincing CGI than this
Agree. Whilst technically less advanced, LotR's CGI actually looked far more convincing because it was only used when it had to be used, and it always had to be integrated into scenes with physical sets, real actors, and real camera movements. It *had* to look real, and it did.
With the Hobbit, so many of the scenes are 100% CGI, so with nothing in the scene to ground them in reality, the whole thing seems videogamey, weightless, and fake.
MisterGibbycrumbles You are totally right! I mean, is it just me or are the LOTR orcs scarier than the Hobbit ones? Its because sometimes the real thing is the most realistic. But then again you have to consider all those orc costumes and huge sets must have cost much more money than just animating it. To be honest the battle of the five armies was (in my opinion) the most entertaining though despite 15% of it was actually filmed with a camera.
True that! Remember that LOTR's film grain also helped blend the real and the cgi together. Overall I still don't quite understand what the hell went wrong here... as MisterGibbycrumbles says its the BLOOM that makes it soo video gameish... but might be the render engine too?
True, true it DID seam kind of like video game graphics! Never noticed that.
Dan Roland Yeah, well many video games use this ''bloom'' effect + video games are all cgi,,, just like the battles in the last hobbit. What an mistake... But Jackson was either too tired to get out of the studio to shoot a real battle or he really thought that copy-pasting 80,000 soldiers in cgi land was going to look better than 300 people fighting on a field (Battle at the Black Gate)
Brilliant work!
Increadible amount of work!
Does anybody know what software they used? Specifically, did the use a game engine in order to combine all the modeling, vfx, enviroments, animations, textures, etc, or they just used an all in one program, such as 3ds max?
They used a lot of different software, some of which is commercial and a lot written by their own programmers. They've wouldn't use a game engine, except perhaps in early animatics, and it certainly wasn't all done in 3ds Max.
They really just said "we've filmed nothing at all, can you make a sick battle?"
I literally could see everything that was cg in this movie. So 70 % of the movie
real amazing work.
When are you guys going to start making video games? :D
I know since this is a late reply so it isn't relevant as before, but I'm not sure if they will (anytime soon). They are really good at CGI and material properties, simulations, but they specialize in how complex it actually is to make those effects, which would lag out a regular console I believe, a PC perhaps as well (might be wrong).
You managed to get some audio, nice.
THIS IS AMAZING! Quick question. What software / plug ins did they use? I would assume Maya/houdini ? + what render
Awesome
man i wish i could do stuff like this or learn like this
Unreal engine 5
what software did you use?
what kind of computer animation program did they use? Maya? or multiple programs?
2:04 I hope that poor troll didn't didn't die :/ looked kinda dead hehe
hehe
casualty of war!
Wonder why that troll agreed with this..
He was promised bucket-loads of fresh fish behind the door... I don't see how else he would run into that door with such ambition lol
Lmao XDD
Do you need actors in suits with tracking points on them in order to animate CG characters or can you do it all on software?
Looks like it was a mix of both for the most part... motion captured & then tweaked with keyframe animation
Advection357 Where can you learn this stuff besides film school? I understand the keyframe suits and turning that into the CGI character, but where do you go from there? And for large battles like that, did the have to choreograph hundreds of individual fights?
You can but its quicker and generally more naturalistic to capture the movement
***** Most professional 3D apps have crowd simulation tools... so say, you can take a few animated sequences.. and apply it to 100's of characters.. and it automates a lot of things, like offsetting the animation timings (so they don't all look all the same, like a nazi army martch hehe) What is your understanding of 3D apps... do you use any? FYI: Weta uses Maya for most of their 3D stuff...
***** For these specific battles scenes, I couldn't tell you how they did it, because it's most probably an industry secret for Weta. But if I had to guess, I would say they used animation mixes for each character... one part driven by the crowd simulator (automated, for running etc) and the next part switching to choreographed fight sequence when 2 opposing characters collide. Most of it would probably require scripting behaviors etc... and that's over my head. I'm a 3D generalist, but animation/scripting isn't my strongest point... sorry I can't help you beyond this guess.
i forgot about that troll wtf was he thinking 2:08
Why werent the houses just generated procedurally with some tweaks and values. Instead of just Modeling 1500 different houses? You could stick with a few houses for close-up images where you would see all the detail
they created the fire and smoke through fluid stimulation better they would have composited digital smoke and fire ino that scene
So 30,000+ Orcs here? Many argument on it at other youtube videos. :)
In Return of the king 200,000?
Two Towers 10,000-20,000?
cool
it's pretty obvious that in the Hobbit movies Weta Digital were under massive crunch time! the CGI in the big battles look... unfinished, like a video game cutscene.
it's like Smaug sucked half their pipeline... if only Warner Bros gave Peter Jackson more time.
With different lighting and maybe more subtle CGI, these movies could've set a new standard for film VFX. Yet, it looks like a video game.
No it doesn't
Did use Vue from e-on software for Nature
the making of the battle of five armies was great. but the result not very good because their clothes and their skin and all look same
Вот зря добавили мультяшность картинки, серьезно. Сделали бы чуть помрачнее и оставили бы версию без этой мультяшности - срубили бы "Оскаров", отвечаю. Было бы эпичней и ближе к духу "Властелина Колец".
2:41
all hail Peter, the king of cgi
Nah its James Cameron. Peter's trilogy sequel hardly had any CGI which is why the Lotr films were better than the Hobbit
Too much CGI really hurt my eyes. This movie sucks!! And I'm a Tolkien fan.
No wonder why this shit didn't make it to the Oscars
I can see the amazing amount of work that went in to this, hats off to all the artists BUT it still looks a bit cartoonish. I suppose that was the creative descision, but it just took me out of the movie, never felt real.
No it doesn't
@@zh7334 yes it does
@@indago1 that's your opinion and I don't agree at all. I suppose you feel this way more because of the color grading than than the actual cgi. And anyway, I don't care if the movie feels a little cartoonish, considering it's an adaptation of a literal children's book.
@@zh7334 We all have our own opinions. That's fair. Our eyes see different. There is no right or wrong, it's subjective. So if it looks good to you, great.
LOL that cgi makig was awesome but why making all army must look same
It Would be better if they use Houdini! Her Fluid System looks so bad!
This looks like a video game in the worst sense. It looks a pass or two from finished but ironically, it probably has an extra pass or two messing it up.
Будь я проклят! Что это было!?
Lord of the rings cgi looks more convincing
Nope
I know there were TONS of hard, excellent work by talented people put on this, but at the end of the day, it all looks like console gaming 3d, and not a live action movie with supposed realism. The CGI sets look like scale models, the color grading is way too fake, the bloom effect is TERRIBLE and it takes you away from the action all the time. They achieved better in LOTR :/
Almost all of the movie was cgi
Like LOTR
@@zh7334 trolling?
@@eternalnjem no. It's true. Most of the army fights were cgi, just like in this movie. You don't know anything about CGI, clearly
@@zh7334 lol. Lotr was mainly practical with paintings & cgi to enhance it. You referred to lotr as all cgi but then you said the battle. So what is it?
@@zh7334 I’m aware of the battles being cgi but you said the whole movie was
There is too much cgi and not enough live action.
Wrong
after rewatching this CGI mess it didn't age well at all. still can't get over the fact how artificial and plastic everything looks. especially smaug and the lava
Everything is CGI.
What about the battle in Dale?
this cgi looks so off, and physics are broken
Wrong
This was 8years ago and compare to cgi today this was pretty damn good
All this to make a shitty movie.
That is your opinion, I know many people who love this movie and I also know many people who don't like this movie or haven't seen it for one reason or another. Me, personally, wasn't disappointed with it, and enjoyed it at many moments and I am willing to buy the EE version to add to my middle earth marathon.