So I just watched the old version and a few others this weekend and I was genuinely confused seeing this uploaded 23 minutes ago. I like these perspective videos, they make you change perspective for a bit and getting in the head of characters like sauron and gollum make you rethink villainy. If your villain's actions fall apart when viewed from their angle, you wrote them wrong.
I want my favorite comment from the original video to persist, it was something like "I thought LotR from Sauron's perspective would just be hours and hours of an angry lighthouse staring at a blank horizon, but this is much more interesting!"
Angry lighthouse actually made it into my standard description for talking about Sauron - so I absolutely agree, haha ☺️ Thanks for preserving that comment and thank you to whomever coined that term, of course :D
@@MisterLambdaThese are basically remakes, Robert has said he’s wanted to update some videos with any new thoughts or theories as well as upgrading the audio, visuals, and editing
Reckon Sauron’s faith that his enemies wouldn’t destroy the Ring lies in observation, not just power-driven ego. When Isildur cut off the ring from Sauron’s hand, the Last Alliance had the chance there and then to destroy it. The fact that they didn’t - on the slopes of Mt Doom no less - probably reassured Sauron (& led him to think destiny was on his side).
Let’s not forget that though destroying the ring is the goal the actual plan was to take the ring to the crack of doom(where they knew it could theoretically be destroyed) and just hope something happens and it all works out for them. No one actually floated the idea of destroying the ring it’s power was that great.
Don’t forget Isildur only knew the ring was powerful. He didn’t know of how corrupting it was. For all he knew it was just a super powerful object the Ring had only ever been in Sauron’s possession at that point.
Was Sauron wrong? If Frodo succumbed to the ring at the end, greed won...but no! Gollum intervenes! ...out of GREED. Which is what led to the one ring's destruction. If he was wrong about anything, he underestimated the destructive power of greed, and he basically torpedoed himself.
@@lsu1992 In the book Gollum gets the ring yes and celebrates and he slips but in the lore it stated that Eru Iluvatar intervened and pushed Gollum. So God won.
I can't help but imagine Sauron at the very end when he knows the One Ring is in Mt. Doom. His panic and confusion at seeing his ring moments away from destruction had to have been sweet to behold.
"And far away, as Frodo put on the Ring and claimed it for his own, even in Sammath Naur the very heart of his realm, the Power in Barad-dûr was shaken, and the Tower trembled from its foundations to its proud and bitter crown. The Dark Lord was suddenly aware of him, and his Eye piercing all shadows looked across the plain to the door that he had made; and the magnitude of his own folly was revealed to him in a blinding flash, and all the devices of his enemies were at last laid bare. Then his wrath blazed in consuming flame, but his fear rose like a vast black smoke to choke him. For he knew his deadly peril and the thread upon which his doom now hung."
The "holy effing shit!" moment of Sauron is delicious in the book. This video does a good job of p.o.v. of the baddie and the last moment recognition of the folly of his investment in the pursuit of powah.
When all that you thought to know and be collapses as your foundation disappears beneath you- there's nowhere & no time for panic or confusion to wiggle any more plot lines. The mind is undone. True foundation is no longer hidden. If taken in the mythic context of the story - the Mind of Eru Ilúvatar is revealed where discord never was.
One of my absolute favorite parts of the book is when Frodo puts on the ring in Mount Doom. Tolkien gives us a glimpse of Sauron’s perspective: “And far away, as Frodo put on the Ring and claimed it for his own, even in Sammath Naur the very heart of his realm, the Power in Barad-dur was shaken, and the Tower trembled from its foundations to its proud and bitter crown. The Dark Lord was suddenly aware of him, and his Eye piercing all shadows looked across the plain to the door that he had made; and the magnitude of his own folly was revealed to him in a blinding flash; and all the devices of his enemies were at last laid bare. Then his wrath blazed in consuming flame, but his fear rose like a vast black smoke to choke him. For he knew his deadly peril and the thread upon which his doom now hung.”
I'm really surprised Sauron realized what was happening so quickly. I'd have figured he'd think, "Huh, that's funny. If it goes into the fire, it could be destroyed... I wonder what they're doing with the Ring there of all places... ... ... OH SH--"
Robert, one of your chief strengths as a writer/narrator is you have really strong closing lines to your videos. A strong conclusion that sums up the point often in a wonderfully worded way. Well done.
The other useful thing about Gollum for Sauron's purposes is that while he would strive and seek to capture the Ring for himself, he has never shown much interest in wielding it as a weapon in the same way as many of the human, elven or other Maiar characters might. While Gollum has used the ring, its almost always been for survival puposes. He was quite content in his relatively humble life in a cave killing fish and the odd goblin. So Gollum was someone he could trust to seek the Ring without worrying that he might try to wield it against him.
Sauron should have paid more attention to why Gollum didn't use the ring though. He obviously felt it was because Gollum was so miserable that he never looked at the big picture, but didn't realise it was the innate hobbitness of hobbits that made them resistant and therefore a force that he didn't understand.
Well, like the video explained, the idea that anyone would want to destroy the ring never even crossed Sauron's mind. To him, it'd be like turning down a million dollars. Why would anyone ever do that?
I always assumed it was Caradhras itself since The Misty Mountains were originally raised up by Morgoth to hamper the first journey of the elves. I assumed that the evil he poured into the world would be especially strong in certain places, this mountain range being one. Considering how many bad things happen in the Misty Mountains, it still makes sense to me.
My interpretation/head canon is that the One Ring itself stirred up Caradhras, prompting it to pay attention and express its ire against the puny creatures daring to attempt a crossing.
I like that idea, im and if that’s true it would make sense that those mountains would also be more willing to “collaborate” with Sauron and help aid in his desires
It could be both. Sauron knew of Morgoth's works in the past and would use them to his benefit if he could so he could have reached out and, so-to-speak, egged Caradhras on.
This is exactly how I interpreted the books when I read them, bravo for your summation! Sauron is a brilliantly written character and a testament to how great of a writer Tolkien was that he could convey so much about his main antagonist without ever bringing him into the room.
people would be so mad at it too, as a writer it would be a super fine line too obvious that the ring was somewhere else and its just waiting for it to happen, not obvious enough and its just an ass pull ending
@@Zalied people would already be bored out of their mind at this point, just him droning on about armies and victories... would probably read like ww2 nazi propganda
Always thought the films didnt make enough of how Sauron was "helped" to think that Aragorn had The Ring. I know he uses the Palantir to show the Heir of Elendil is found, and the marching on the Black Gate is to keep the Enemy's eye fixed on him and blind to all else, but I had to explain to my kids when they watched it a lot of what Robert says about Sauron never imagining anything other than a powerful lord taking and using the Ring, and that was how he was blindsided.
Speaking as a member of a large bureaucratic organization, I find it really remarkable that whoever was running security at the Black Gate kept Gollum for further questioning. 'Oh yeah, mate, you had the boss's ring...?'
Shelob is not party to Sauron. They didn't really interact beyond Sauron knowing she was there and tolerating her since her presence benefited him. It's even stated in the book I think that Shelob doesn't give a fuck about the ring, she just wants to eat.
Fun fact: Sauron didn’t sense the One Ring at Mount Doom merely because Frodo had put it on; he sensed it because Frodo *claimed* the Ring for himself. The Ring and Sauron are inherently linked. When Frodo claimed the Ring, he created a direct connection between himself and Sauron. This connection allowed Sauron to pinpoint the Ring’s location more precisely than if someone were merely using it for invisibility or other purposes. Frodo claiming the Ring as his own and manifesting to dominate the Ring's full power has revealed the Ring’s inherent "malevolent will" and resonated strongly with Sauron, who originally created the Ring for this very purpose.
This video was even better than I expected. One thing I hypothesize is that Sauron near the end was actually preparing with his full focus to fight Aragorn because he expected Aragorn could finally decide to use the Ring. Aragorn and his army wouldn't march to his gate with such a small force, even driven mad by the Ring. He probably thought the ghost army is still with Aragorn too. He probably also knew he'd still win because the Ring would betray Aragorn, but he might have expected it to be a difficult fight, so persuading or corrupting Aragorn to his side with the Mouth could be worthwhile. I think this makes the realization at the Mount Doom all the more unexpected for Sauron.
I vividly recall reading LoTR and getting to that climactic paragraph "...And far away, as Frodo put on the ring and claimed it for his own the power in Barad Our was shaken to it's very crown...thick black smoke rose to choke him...he knew the peril by which his fate now hung" (yes, going from memory here, but it's been 40 years!). I simply loved the idea that his hubris had lead him to that moment of pure panic and fear...Sauron positively shat himself.
To be fair to him... he'd basically won. Like, it's not hubris if you're right lol. And he had absolutely zero reason to believe the ring would be destroyed before that moment.
relaying a gag I saw on another video about this subject - "Imagine how pissed Sauron must have been that in the end he was undone by a fist fight between two lawn gnomes and the winner being clumsy."
Uhhh... Who, exactly, declared Sauron had only one eye? Though Tolkien used the singular term, I doubt he meant it literally. We with two sometimes say things like "I have my eye on you".
@@spacemissing He doesn't. Only in the films and the David Day bestiaries is Sauron a giant floating eye. Tolkein's intent was that he is a large humanoid sitting in Barad-Dur. The flaming eye is how Frodo perceives Sauron's attention and focus on the ring.
Can I just say that I really love the green banner in the top right corner of the thumbnails? It's instantly recognizeable in long playlists and gives the thumbnails a nice visual consistency
I've often wondered if Sauron didn't think that the Hobbit carrying the ring had been bumped off in Rivendell so that a superior master could take its place. Seeing the hobbit in Orthanc (as he believed) has a slightly different message if this is the case. Either this means that Saruman has double crossed again and has managed to get himself elected as the one who will wield the ring, which is not good news, or Sauron is just after the hobbits for news of what has become of the Ring. But he never acts as though he thinks Saruman has actually got the ring.
The hobbit who was originally carrying the Ring dying in Rivendell wouldn't be too far a leap for Sauron to make. After all, that Ringbearer had been stabbed with a Morgul Blade, making said hobbit's survival quite unlikely.
Compreendo sua visão. Sauron sabia que o anel estava com os Hobbits depois de Esmeagol. Teve ele tanta certeza de que um homem ou mago o teria faz dele um tolo. @@Jorlem25
Since Aragorn chatted up Sauron the day after he saw the hobbit in Orthanc, he knew Saruman didn't have the Palantir, thus he probably was defeated. The news about the Rohan victory there was probably known by Sauron also.
@@fetjocke wasn’t it more than a day? I thought it was after the battle at Helms Deep, so at least three to seven days? It’s been awhile. Now I gotta rewatch it again.
And to add even more credibility to Saurons idea of Aragorn having the ring, nobody actually could destroy the ring. Tolkien has state this. Not even Frodo or Sam, nor Gandalf or Galadriel for that matter. So his strategy makes even more sense in the light of that. It was providence or Eru that in the end, made Smeagol fall into the pit and accidentally destroy the ring. And this was something Sauron just couldn't conceive. Awesome video man
An even better interpretation than chance/Eru, the ring destroys itself. Frodo made Smeagol swear on the ring to be faithful, and when he attacks him at Mt Doom he curses him with the power of the ring “Begone and trouble me no more! If you touch me ever again. you shall be cast yourself into the Fire of Doom.” So when he attacks Frodo the curse activates and he falls into the fire. The ring betrays everyone, even itself.
Man, this is by far the best explanation of The Lord of the Rings plot I personally have EVER seen. I have never so fully understand the characters mindset and motivation as I have now. Thank you so much for your time here.
People forgot that mordor armies have archers lol unless the eagles are somehow impervious to things like that. Which I actually am not sure of but I’m fairly certain an eagle would be shot down before reaching Mt. Doom.
@@tachyonites9568In fact, they are capable of many things. After all, in battle they are capable of competing with dragons. However, Sauron is Sauron, and he has the Nazgul at the ready, so it would be a very risky flight, with a high chance of turning into the delivery of the ring directly into the hands of the owner. It is also worth considering that Gandalf is not Manwë, he had no right to command the eagles, he could only ask for help ... and they could very well refuse.
When he said "if you're new to this channel," I was waiting for 'don't forget to like and subscribe'. Instead he just said "welcome" and so I immediately liked and subscribed haha.
2941 was really the most important year in the 3rd Age. Sauron was ousted from Dol Guldur and returned to Mordor earlier than he wanted to, so his eventual attack wasn't as strong as it would have been. Bilbo found the ring, of course, and he and the dwarves got Smaug killed, which may have further saved Middle Earth from Sauron. If Smaug was still alive in 3018-3019, he might have been able to destroy the entire Northern Army of Rohan and attack Rivendell with some orcs to back him up and occupy it. If Bilbo hadn't found the ring, Sauron's power would likely have called Gollum to Mordor and he'd have gotten it, and if Bilbo had still found the ring but Smaug was still alive, the Fellowship may have easily been found and destroyed by Smaug. Everything hinged on the events of 2941.
After the ring gets to Rivendell, I wonder if Sauron expected that Elrond or Gandalf would take it and become an extremely powerful adversary, capable of wielding the One and the Three? Through Saruman he must have known that Gandalf was a Maia. Gandlaf +Ring = defeat Elrond + Ring = probabl defeat But he is planning for another war of Elves and Men, this time with the Ring on the other side - but he seems to be making the assumption that whoever the ring bearer was would not have the time to master it and he tries to precipitate things. Under those circumstances it would make sense to conduct an infantry War to try and make sure that at the last he would face the ring bearer and no army at all, rendering them vulnerable. I wonder if it was an existential surprise to him to find that he was up against not Elrond, nor Gandalf, but the descendant of Elendil with the same sword (and the Ring)? That's not quite as powerful as Gandalf with the ring, but it does have a subsidiary message of "the Fates are against you, boyo!"
I don't think in any moment he is afraid of that, as this video notes, he is actually hoping for that, as long as the ring is not destroyed Sauron is alive and will eventually resurface while the ring no matter whonhas it is always working up on a way to Sauron
I think Tolkien was pretty clear on this point: no one other than Sauron himself could master the ring as it would always betray whomever was wielding it. The Wise knew this and refused to even try.
As a side note, at 7:45 you talk about the blizzard and how the movies portrayed that as Saruman's doing. Which is definitely true. However, in the movie, I loved the detail that Saruman is actually calling on Caradhras to wake up and spill their blood in Quenya. Gandalf's "counterspell" on the other hand is him bidding Caradhras back to sleep and to be still.
What I really like about your channel and these LotR videos is that you point out differences between the books and Jackson's films without suggesting any superiority among them or that someone who has only seen the movies is somehow "less than." It usually helps make sense of things in the movies that seem inconsistent or inexplicable by filling in the holes with the books. I like how they're presented as a sort of team. Anyway, I just really like your essays!
When the Nazgûl arrived back in Mordor, soggy and empty handed, Sauron should have seriously reassessed his organisation’s personnel structure, not levelled-up their company rides.
Goes to show what great bosses Sauron and Saruman really were. When his subordinates were bested by circumstances outside their control, he saw to it that they were more adequately equipped instead of blaming them and laying half of them off. Saruman didn’t take his underling orc foreman’s laments of their industrial incapacity for increased production as a slight on his own authority or as petty complaining; instead, he found a solution to their lack of furnace fuel in the forests of Fangorn. He ordered his foreman to cut them all down, empowering his workers with the resources that they had so eagerly needed and yearned for. No wonder so many wanted to work for these guys!
@@jefffinkbonner9551 honestly, that fits with Sauron's ideal of trying to "improve" a world the Valar, in his mind, had abandoned. While he was a completely evil and tyrannical overlord, there REALLY is no point to destroy or harm what can still be of use to you.
This is why corporate CEO’s need to rely on an HR department! One being cannot properly oversee everything and everyone, regardless of having an unsleeping eye!
To me, there is nothing more thrilling in all of fiction than the moment when all of Sauron's enemies devices were laid bare and the magnitude of his folly revealed to him. From millennia of planning, to an hour of gloating retribution and soaring pride, to utter incomprehensible despair all at once.
Wonderful video and commentary. Though, I thought with the mentioning of Unfinished Tales, there'd be mention of the freshly dispatched (by water) Ringwraiths arriving at the gates of Orthanc. One of my favourite scenes. Saruamn putting his voice on the gates and telling the Nine that if he had the ring they would be calling him Master. Then a wonderful moment where they, while invisible, accost Wormtongue on his way from Edoras. Questioning and terrorising him. Unfinished Tales has a few wonderful 'deleted scenes' from the books,
Sauron had forgotten the words spoken to Melkor and all the Ainur in the Timeless Halls by Eru Iluvatar: "And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined." Melkor finally realized that when he was thrust out of the world, and I think that in those last staggering seconds before the One Ring completely dissolved in the lava of the Cracks of Doom, Sauron grasped their full meaning also. Who save for Eru alone could have arranged for Sauron's downfall to have been accomplished by Hobbits, the least of all the Free Peoples of the Earth?
I gotta say, this has been one of the most informative and intuitive takes on Sauron’s perspective in LOTR and I loved every minute! You good sir have earned a sub
What I love most about the Lord of the Rings and what sets it apart from most other fantasy novels I have read is the fact that ultimately, evil wasn’t brought down by heroism, force, or violence, but buy good virtues like love (for things that grow), selflessness, and… mercy. Bilbo‘s mercy did, in the end, indeed rule the fate of many.
What an incredible video. I think it helps me to realize why I like Sauron so much, and it’s because he doesn’t just seem to magically know everything like most villains. He has the upper hand, but there many things he didn’t know
Wow, beautifully written in a style akin to the content. No glib, contemporary sarcasm. Beautifully read as well, clear and sympathetic to the purpose. Thank you!
Really interesting character study, the broader point about Sauron simply failing to understand that not everybody wants to take power for themselves is very perceptive, and definitely lines up with the cynical worldview that you typically find espoused by dictators and their lackeys around the world.
Love your videos mate. One listening can get a real glimpse into the love and passion you have for these fantasy worlds. I thank you for always delivering a goal with these.
Just goes to show, good intelligence wins wars. If Sauron had gotten an actual traitor in the fellowship, or in the hosts of the elves, he would have known where the Ring was, and he very likely would have won. There's a wonderful duology of books, it's a little more from Melkor's perspective than Sauron's, but it still tracks. It's called The Sundering, by Jacqueline Carey. The first book is Banewreaker, and the second is Godslayer. They offer a very poignant perspective of a version of this tale from the opposing side (though of course it is inspired by LotR not any part of the actual canon). They are very hard to find now, but they always made me love the the original books more.
One of my favourite books on this idea is a two part series by Jaqualine Carey, author of the Kushiel's Legacy Series, called The Sundering. Book one is Banewrecker the second Godslayer and are a LotR style story just told from the villains perspectives.
Wow. Just found this video on a lark. Really interesting. I've seen the extended films a few times, but this adds a terrific perspective and details I'd not thought of. Thanks much!
Not to be forgotten, and supporting the theory that Sauron closed the Redhorn Gate with a blizzard, was the fact that the Fellowship encountered werewolves (wargs) the day before they entered Moria. That they were werewolves - - one of Sauron's specialties from the First Age, remember - - is indicated by no bodies of dead wolves being found after the battle, even though many were slain.
This was SOOO good! I just want to thank you for making this because I've been a fan of LOTR for a long time but I've never seen someone provide this angle. I'm actually a big strategy nerd and this video really provided such an interesting viewpoint into the mental chess game the heroes were playing against Sauron. It's fascinating to see the actual strategical thoughts behind the movements Sauron made against the Fellowship and Gandalf. I never was able to see all the thoughts behind what he was doing because he's always depicted as an disembodied eye in the films.
I always wondered what Sauron’s end game was. Like, say he wins. Now he’s lord of a dead middle earth filled with orcs, spiders, I guess evil men? Like, where do you go from there? Do you say, ok guys, I need some of you orcs to make some music and art or something so we aren’t bored?. Do the orcs and men become friends with each other and slowly over time, one steals another’s cabbage and sauron has to make laws so his subjects get along until more rules have to be made until one day it just becomes a regular society like ours today and Sauron wakes up to realize he’s just a regular king? I guess what I’m asking is, was his only desire to be a ruler?
In some sense, yes. But since Sauron only cared about dominating others, his society would've been based on slavery, tyranny and oppression. I don't think it would've lead to a very stable society, by that's neither here or there.
12:55 - "...both of those things shouldn't have happened from Sauron's perspective." From the depths of Mordor comes the sound of a distant angry cry: "goddamn hackers!"
Something missing (though you've likely covered it in a previous video) is Sauron's perspective overall in relation to his motivations and why he wanted to do what he did (re Morgoth)
This is a great retelling from another perspective and really goes to show how well the fellowship actually succeeded in their task; it wasn't a quest of military might but rather subterfuge.
I just read the end of Fellowship of the Rings last night so it's fresh in my head. Frodo actually puts the ring on twice to escape Boromir and the rest of the company (bar Sam). It's kind of odd because he avoids Sauron while he sits on the throne but then a few moments later he uses the ring again without fear to cross the river. Frodo doesn't even take the ring off again until he pulls Sam from the river when Sam follows him.
That because Amon Hen is a special place. Obviously, Frodo was easy to spot only on the seat (or near it, as he was kneeling before it when took off the Ring).
@@Adam-ne7qc Okay that is a fare assumption to make of Amon Hen as it was a "seeing place" like Barad-dur and Orthanc. And the book isn't too clear regarding how far the seat an Amon Hen actually was from the campsite by the river
This is so freaking interesting. What a great way to summarize his thoughts at the end. He was shocked to find it under his nose by someone so unassuming and unwanting to use it for battle or their own personal gain. It just never crossed Sauron's mind that anyone would look to immediately destroy it.
What an awesome video. Simple and easy to understand. The comments here are also very informative. Cheers to all I'm feeling kinda dumb for only realizing now that even when Sauron was defeated in the Pelennor fields the war was pretty much won for him. Makes Frodo and the hobbits look even more badass for saving Middle Earth from total defeat in the very last seconds.
In addition to being a great reformer who would bring law and order in a scenario of cultural decay after the War of Wrath, I think Sauron saw himself as a Promethean figure who would lift Humanity out of cultural prehistory and technological ignorance: The Silmarillion says that the men of the East and South built cities of stone and had access to metallurgical knowledge. And bringing economic benefits: he proved himself a good economist in Númenor by multiplying the Island's wealth. Furthermore, he had to see himself as a deity of a great world unification: a single theocratic government, a technocratic political-economic system and a religious reformer to bring true belief through dogmatic ideas. This religious engineering reminds me (in some ways) of Gnosticism: a liberating god (Melkor) to rid rational beings of "Archons" (Valar) from a "Demiurgic monster" (Eru) who imprisoned everyone in a world of war and death. Interesting that Sauron spoke this of Melkor in the Second Age, but later he claimed to be Melkor in the Third Age.
When I was 5 or 6, my dad read these books to me. Except he passed them off as real, and said he was at the Pelanor Fields, fighting for Gondor. His genius in story telling was that he didn’t make himself important. Sure, he had met Aragorn and the Hobbits. But didn’t understand their importance (tho he WAS the first to call Aragorn “your royal highness” in the middle of this very battle. It was so great to hear him tell the tales. Pure, innocent joy is how I felt. I’ll never forget the feeling.
Excellent commentary! Thank you for another thoughtful video. It is quite interesting looking at it from an actual character Sauron's view instead of just the remote powerful villain...
After The Ring of Power, I’m afraid to say that I’ve always wanted a film story of the “lives” of the Nazgûl. From their earthly positions, to their corruption on to their demise.
Excellent video. I imagine Sauron in Barad-dúr watching the Army of the West matching into his jaws. He must've exulted. "At last! Victory is mine!" Since he had a body, he must've felt a shudder in his bones when Frodo put on the Ring. "Oh shiiiiiiiiiiit!"
Yeah, basically everything is going to plan, even losing at Minas Tirith is a minor setback at worst, he can just do it again. He knows it. The enemy knows it. He's won. And then it's all gone just like that.
“And far away, as Frodo put on the Ring and claimed it for his own, even in Sammath Naur the very heart of his realm, the Power in Barad-dur was shaken, and the Tower trembled from its foundations to its proud and bitter crown." The entire tower shuddered in fear.
It's interesting that despite the fact that good and evil are strongly defined in Tolkien's work, the powers of Evil were still ultimately corrupted powers, who had once been good. The likes of Sauron and Morgoth did not see themselves as being evil or necessarilg doing evil things. They believed they were right and acting in a reasonable way against their foes. It's a form of evil that resonates with real life evil that we see in today's world, and is far from being just a classical and unrealistic representation of "Biblical style Evil."
❓ Why would Sauron be more powerful? He was Maiar (just like the wizards). Sauron’s power is seeking power itself (domination and control). Wizards are of the Istari order of Maiar (limited from using their full powers in middle earth). Was Sauron simply not limited by Eru Ilúvatar? 🔹 Eru Ilúvatar made the Valar. Valar made Maiar. Both Valar and Maiar are Ainur (magical/divine beings of Eru, simply greater and lesser power). 🔹 or was it that Sauron was never limited to a mortal form (such as the wizards)? I understand it that the wizards were sent in mortal form to limit their powers, and only allowed to hold as much power as the mortal form could possess, limited to only thier assignments and indirect power to influence/inspire. Thus, when Gandalf the Grey died, he was sent back in a new physical form (with more memory/experience) with the same mission/assignment. Using the remembered experiences, was able to take the Gandalf the White form that held reinvigorated purpose and (using the memories) held more/different powers. (As white, he also still retained Narya ring.) 🔹 Sauron was not encased in a moral form, thus was Sauron unlimited in power? What was Sauron’s assignment? What was his role in creation? 🔹 other Maiar were: Balrog, Melian, Aiwendil, Ossë and Uinen, Eönwë… (was Manwë ever on middle earth?). Were these Maiar limited in a physical form?
Ilúvatar created both the Valar and the Maiar. None of them had their power limited when they entered Arda. Every Maia is an individual and as such has different abilities; some are stronger than others. While Tolkien never does anything like assign power rankings, you can get a decent idea of the overall power of some of them from the text. Sauron was one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful, of the Maia. He was more powerful than any of the Maia who later became known as the Istari. When the Istari went to Middle-Earth, it was the Valar who limited their power and had them take the form of old men. After Gandalf the Grey fell in the fight against Durin's Bane, it was Ilúvatar who brought him back, restored much (possibly all) of his native power) and sent him back as Gandalf the White.
@@istari0 Of the Maiar, The Eight (Aratar) were the most powerful with Menwë as leader. The concept of Sauron not being limited to a mortal physical form comes from The Silmarillion and LOTR. Sauron possessed the ability to change forms (unlike the Ishtar order of the Maiar who were constrained by their physical forms as wizards). I’m not sure about the other Maiar I mentioned, thus an open question if they (like the Balrog) WERE the physical forms (or were they more like Sauron and able to take shape as they could).? Okay… about different Ainur creations with different powers/capabilities… I can appreciate that, just wasn’t certain. They could all be equals as Maiar, just with different focus/passions. Sauron apprenticed to Aulë, then to Melkor(aka:Morgoth). And those passions get to rebellion (Melkor and Sauron). Melkor was judged by the Valar and sentenced to The Void. No mention of why Sauron was able to remain… other than that his One Ring likely preserved him as an anchor to Eä (the non-void (actual universe)). Still… was Sauron judged by the Valar? With destruction of the One Ring, was Sauron finally fully banished to The Void?
Baggins and shire are the same thing that was being said in the north after Smaug was killed. It’s pretty sure Sauron would have heard of the name, just that he didn’t know who it was.
I just finished reading the series, and Sauron's defeat reminded me of Red's narration of Warden Norton's death in The Shawshank Redemption. "I like to think the last thing that went through his head (other than that bullet) was to wonder how the Hell Andy Dufresne ever got the best of him." Everything was going well until the moment it wasn't, and then it was going just about as poorly as it could for Sauron.
Question: If Sauron had a physical form by when the ring was destroyed, where exactly was him? Maybe inside Barad-dûr? I wish we all could've seen his final moments of despair.
Sauron's fatal mistake was so simple, he thought everyone would have the same love for power as he did. He couldn't imagine anything else and ultimately that cost him everything. Love it.
Didn't the army of Mordor that attacked Minas Tirith march to Minas Tirith from Minas Morgul? At around 12:10 in the vid, IDG implies that the Mordor army traveled through the Black Gate, which is nowhere near Minas Morgul. Frodo, Sam and Smeagol first try to enter into Mordor at the Black Gate but give up and then go south to the Morgul Vale where they do get into Mordor.
This is an awesome and insightful analysis of the events discussed in this video. Kudos to the author - and thanks for the clear and terse investigation and explanation of the complexities of the thoughts and actions of the major players in this critical period in the story of Middle Earth. TYVM!!!
This is a revised and updated version of a video first published in March 2022.
Knew I had a sense of deja vu...
Wow. Perfect timing. I just watched all your other "Perspective" videos. And now i looked for the Sauron one and see this new video. Awesome
Do you think you could upload the original as well? for comparison purposes
Good work outta you either you. Keep it up bud
So I just watched the old version and a few others this weekend and I was genuinely confused seeing this uploaded 23 minutes ago. I like these perspective videos, they make you change perspective for a bit and getting in the head of characters like sauron and gollum make you rethink villainy. If your villain's actions fall apart when viewed from their angle, you wrote them wrong.
I want my favorite comment from the original video to persist, it was something like "I thought LotR from Sauron's perspective would just be hours and hours of an angry lighthouse staring at a blank horizon, but this is much more interesting!"
Angry lighthouse actually made it into my standard description for talking about Sauron - so I absolutely agree, haha ☺️
Thanks for preserving that comment and thank you to whomever coined that term, of course :D
Get over yourself, nobba.
"Angry lighthouse" is such excellent distilled sarcasm yet works so well, cheers for that :>
I thought I had seen a few of these videos before, does anyone know why they are being reuploaded? Or are these remakes?
@@MisterLambdaThese are basically remakes, Robert has said he’s wanted to update some videos with any new thoughts or theories as well as upgrading the audio, visuals, and editing
Reckon Sauron’s faith that his enemies wouldn’t destroy the Ring lies in observation, not just power-driven ego. When Isildur cut off the ring from Sauron’s hand, the Last Alliance had the chance there and then to destroy it. The fact that they didn’t - on the slopes of Mt Doom no less - probably reassured Sauron (& led him to think destiny was on his side).
Let’s not forget that though destroying the ring is the goal the actual plan was to take the ring to the crack of doom(where they knew it could theoretically be destroyed) and just hope something happens and it all works out for them. No one actually floated the idea of destroying the ring it’s power was that great.
Yep, maybe the God of that universe really did make that little spot on the ground infront of the plumment a little more slippery @@SpottedHares
Don’t forget Isildur only knew the ring was powerful. He didn’t know of how corrupting it was. For all he knew it was just a super powerful object the Ring had only ever been in Sauron’s possession at that point.
@@kekero540 But Isildur must have known what all mortals know: Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Well, in the end he was correct, they wouldn't destroy it.
"it wasn't just sauron who fell; it was his entire worldview" that captures the depth of this story and why it has a lasting impact across generations
Was Sauron wrong?
If Frodo succumbed to the ring at the end, greed won...but no! Gollum intervenes!
...out of GREED.
Which is what led to the one ring's destruction.
If he was wrong about anything, he underestimated the destructive power of greed, and he basically torpedoed himself.
@@lsu1992 In the book Gollum gets the ring yes and celebrates and he slips but in the lore it stated that Eru Iluvatar intervened and pushed Gollum. So God won.
@@crusader2112 TFW when god himself is like "Oh no you don't!"
Beaten by the power of friendship
@crusader2112 Understood...surprised Tolkien went straight "deus ex" like that.
I can't help but imagine Sauron at the very end when he knows the One Ring is in Mt. Doom. His panic and confusion at seeing his ring moments away from destruction had to have been sweet to behold.
Yep. The book describes his immediate rage at sensing the Ring in Mt. Doom, and then subsequent fear as he realized what was going on.
"And far away, as Frodo put on the Ring and claimed it for his own, even in Sammath Naur the very heart of his realm, the Power in Barad-dûr was shaken, and the Tower trembled from its foundations to its proud and bitter crown. The Dark Lord was suddenly aware of him, and his Eye piercing all shadows looked across the plain to the door that he had made; and the magnitude of his own folly was revealed to him in a blinding flash, and all the devices of his enemies were at last laid bare. Then his wrath blazed in consuming flame, but his fear rose like a vast black smoke to choke him. For he knew his deadly peril and the thread upon which his doom now hung."
The animators did a Hell of a job showing SHEER PANIC in the eye as it fell. You can almost see the "Wait wait no no no!"
The "holy effing shit!" moment of Sauron is delicious in the book. This video does a good job of p.o.v. of the baddie and the last moment recognition of the folly of his investment in the pursuit of powah.
When all that you thought to know and be collapses as your foundation disappears beneath you- there's nowhere & no time for panic or confusion to wiggle any more plot lines. The mind is undone. True foundation is no longer hidden.
If taken in the mythic context of the story - the Mind of Eru Ilúvatar is revealed where discord never was.
Sauron: "And I would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for those meddling hobbitses!"
😂
Does Sauron talk like Smiegal?
brilliant
And those dumb eagles
Night King: "And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling Targaryens!"
Imagine Sauron shouting to the Nazgûl "Fly, you fools!" when Sauron senses Frodo putting on the ring in Mount Doom.
"What the fk are you looking at?!? MOVE GODDAMMIT, MOVE!"
for some reason Sauron sounded like Samuel Jackson when I wrote that.
@@scottmccrea1873i laughed too hard lol
More like “FLY MY PRETTYS! FLY! FLY! AHAHAHAHA!”
"Pretty fly for a dead guy" by the offspring
Its like poetry, it rhymes!
One of my absolute favorite parts of the book is when Frodo puts on the ring in Mount Doom. Tolkien gives us a glimpse of Sauron’s perspective:
“And far away, as Frodo put on the Ring and claimed it for his own, even in Sammath Naur the very heart of his realm, the Power in Barad-dur was shaken, and the Tower trembled from its foundations to its proud and bitter crown. The Dark Lord was suddenly aware of him, and his Eye piercing all shadows looked across the plain to the door that he had made; and the magnitude of his own folly was revealed to him in a blinding flash; and all the devices of his enemies were at last laid bare. Then his wrath blazed in consuming flame, but his fear rose like a vast black smoke to choke him. For he knew his deadly peril and the thread upon which his doom now hung.”
Thanks, I could remember the summary but not the exact text. It's a bit long but this would have been great to include in the video at the end.
I'm really surprised Sauron realized what was happening so quickly. I'd have figured he'd think, "Huh, that's funny. If it goes into the fire, it could be destroyed... I wonder what they're doing with the Ring there of all places... ... ... OH SH--"
Pretty awesome writing, really. I can really appreciate the greatness of this story.
"...wait a second...I'm getting a signal...the Ring is in...SHIIIIITTT!!! SHITSHITSHITSHIT NO YOU FUCKING DON'T OHSHITOHSHITSHITSHIT!!!!!!!!!!"
@@connorscanlan2167 Why else would his enemy sneak the ring all the way into the heart of Mordor let alone Mt Doom?
Robert, one of your chief strengths as a writer/narrator is you have really strong closing lines to your videos. A strong conclusion that sums up the point often in a wonderfully worded way. Well done.
I wish I had that ability. It’s like…
Yeah, what he said.
This is AI generated
@@EnjoySackLunch Buddy you are high. Did you bring enough to share with the whole class?
@@TrueYellowDart sorry if this news disappoints you
The other useful thing about Gollum for Sauron's purposes is that while he would strive and seek to capture the Ring for himself, he has never shown much interest in wielding it as a weapon in the same way as many of the human, elven or other Maiar characters might. While Gollum has used the ring, its almost always been for survival puposes. He was quite content in his relatively humble life in a cave killing fish and the odd goblin.
So Gollum was someone he could trust to seek the Ring without worrying that he might try to wield it against him.
Gandalf did say to frodo in the fellowship movie that he would have a part to play before he even joined frodo and sam
Sauron should have paid more attention to why Gollum didn't use the ring though. He obviously felt it was because Gollum was so miserable that he never looked at the big picture, but didn't realise it was the innate hobbitness of hobbits that made them resistant and therefore a force that he didn't understand.
You cannot, not anyone, wield the ring against sauron. Surely elrond would of tried
If only Sauron had the foresight to put a door on Mt Doom
And all you need is the One Key to unlock it.
One key to lock them all.
And in the darkness fumble about and try all the others first
Well, like the video explained, the idea that anyone would want to destroy the ring never even crossed Sauron's mind. To him, it'd be like turning down a million dollars. Why would anyone ever do that?
“DO NOT COPY” 🙃
I always assumed it was Caradhras itself since The Misty Mountains were originally raised up by Morgoth to hamper the first journey of the elves. I assumed that the evil he poured into the world would be especially strong in certain places, this mountain range being one. Considering how many bad things happen in the Misty Mountains, it still makes sense to me.
It was kind of. Saruman and Gandalf both call out to Caradhras, in Sindarin/Quenya
My interpretation/head canon is that the One Ring itself stirred up Caradhras, prompting it to pay attention and express its ire against the puny creatures daring to attempt a crossing.
I like that idea, im and if that’s true it would make sense that those mountains would also be more willing to “collaborate” with Sauron and help aid in his desires
It could be both. Sauron knew of Morgoth's works in the past and would use them to his benefit if he could so he could have reached out and, so-to-speak, egged Caradhras on.
What a delightful thread. Every idea reasonable, interesting, and polite. First time commenting on this channel. Not used to this level of civility.
This is exactly how I interpreted the books when I read them, bravo for your summation! Sauron is a brilliantly written character and a testament to how great of a writer Tolkien was that he could convey so much about his main antagonist without ever bringing him into the room.
If LotR had been told from Sauron's perspective, the ending would be one of the greatest twists ever.
Concordo plenamente
people would be so mad at it too, as a writer it would be a super fine line too obvious that the ring was somewhere else and its just waiting for it to happen, not obvious enough and its just an ass pull ending
@@robertoprimordial2633Valeu roberto primordial👍👍
@@Zalied people would already be bored out of their mind at this point, just him droning on about armies and victories... would probably read like ww2 nazi propganda
As opposed to the propaganda we are told re WW2.
Watch Europa the last battle.
So many details are highlighted. No matter how many times I’ve read these books, the story comes alive when Robert pulls it all together!!
"if youre new to the channel, welcome"
def a pleasantly subtle change & i love the wholesomeness.
well i don't.
@@KulDeeSak who asked
@Gongall
No one. Same people who asked you.
@@KulDeeSakLMAO
Honestly the video was good enough that I would have subbed regardless, but I did very much appreciate not being badgered to do it.
Always thought the films didnt make enough of how Sauron was "helped" to think that Aragorn had The Ring. I know he uses the Palantir to show the Heir of Elendil is found, and the marching on the Black Gate is to keep the Enemy's eye fixed on him and blind to all else, but I had to explain to my kids when they watched it a lot of what Robert says about Sauron never imagining anything other than a powerful lord taking and using the Ring, and that was how he was blindsided.
And the Gondorian heralds declaring the return of the king was a massive boost to Sauron's ideology.
Yeah, but maybe the Dunkin’ Donuts gift card was declined for other reasons?
Take it as a good thing that your kids aren’t steeped in a Realpolitik worldview.
I have only one question, good sir: who the hell is Robert? 😅
@@Lokrio9 "Hello everyone, its Robert here, and welcome to In Deep Geek".
I really love the vivid way you talk about this. It could have just been a dry description but you add so much flavor and emotion - it is glorious.
And yet not overly vivid, which would be exhausting.
Speaking as a member of a large bureaucratic organization, I find it really remarkable that whoever was running security at the Black Gate kept Gollum for further questioning. 'Oh yeah, mate, you had the boss's ring...?'
"...sure you did pal. And my warg swallowed a Silmaril. Move along, nut-job."
Gollum had know about Shelob and where she resided, so I reckon he didn't go through the Black Gate but took the pass of Cirith Ungol.
True, but he also looked a hell of a lot like a dude who’d been carrying the ring for a few hundred years
Shelob is not party to Sauron.
They didn't really interact beyond Sauron knowing she was there and tolerating her since her presence benefited him. It's even stated in the book I think that Shelob doesn't give a fuck about the ring, she just wants to eat.
@@moritamikamikara3879 i always had the idea of shelob as a "Pet" of Sauron
Fun fact: Sauron didn’t sense the One Ring at Mount Doom merely because Frodo had put it on; he sensed it because Frodo *claimed* the Ring for himself. The Ring and Sauron are inherently linked. When Frodo claimed the Ring, he created a direct connection between himself and Sauron. This connection allowed Sauron to pinpoint the Ring’s location more precisely than if someone were merely using it for invisibility or other purposes. Frodo claiming the Ring as his own and manifesting to dominate the Ring's full power has revealed the Ring’s inherent "malevolent will" and resonated strongly with Sauron, who originally created the Ring for this very purpose.
I never even considered that Sauron must have thought that Aragorn had the ring, but that makes so much sense.
This video was even better than I expected. One thing I hypothesize is that Sauron near the end was actually preparing with his full focus to fight Aragorn because he expected Aragorn could finally decide to use the Ring. Aragorn and his army wouldn't march to his gate with such a small force, even driven mad by the Ring. He probably thought the ghost army is still with Aragorn too. He probably also knew he'd still win because the Ring would betray Aragorn, but he might have expected it to be a difficult fight, so persuading or corrupting Aragorn to his side with the Mouth could be worthwhile. I think this makes the realization at the Mount Doom all the more unexpected for Sauron.
Huh????
I vividly recall reading LoTR and getting to that climactic paragraph "...And far away, as Frodo put on the ring and claimed it for his own the power in Barad Our was shaken to it's very crown...thick black smoke rose to choke him...he knew the peril by which his fate now hung" (yes, going from memory here, but it's been 40 years!). I simply loved the idea that his hubris had lead him to that moment of pure panic and fear...Sauron positively shat himself.
To be fair to him... he'd basically won. Like, it's not hubris if you're right lol. And he had absolutely zero reason to believe the ring would be destroyed before that moment.
@@rhel373 …yeah, maybe. But I just loved that existential terror he felt. He knew fear before the end.
"Sauron positively shat himself." Ah, Professor Tolkien, you wordsmith.
@@connorscanlan2167 to be fair, I did consider “shitted” but I heard the Prof whispering to me “shaaaat”
@@RtB68 It was "absolutely" that was really carrying that sentence. Le mot juste.
When I see In Deep Geek or Nerd Of The Rings upload a big smile appears on my face. My 2 favorite channels !
Check out Darth Gandalf, if you like those two, I think you’ll like him too
@@jonashammond498 Just checked it out and it is a great channel. Immediately subbed ! Thank you
@@jonashammond498 I checked the channel and it is great. Immediately subbed. Thank you for your recommendation.
Pitty that Nerd sold is soul to the dark forces, and was seduced by the gifts of the dark lord Jeff B.
Check out ‘Men Of The West.”
relaying a gag I saw on another video about this subject - "Imagine how pissed Sauron must have been that in the end he was undone by a fist fight between two lawn gnomes and the winner being clumsy."
Because of him having just one eye, Sauron‘s perspective was by design always not three-dimensional.
I think more realistically it's because two eyeballs would be very silly looking.
👀
🏯
@@kod8933but eight would look suddenly menacingly aesthetical.
Uhhh... Who, exactly, declared Sauron had only one eye?
Though Tolkien used the singular term, I doubt he meant it literally.
We with two sometimes say things like "I have my eye on you".
biblically accurate Sauron @@VinnyUnion
@@spacemissing He doesn't. Only in the films and the David Day bestiaries is Sauron a giant floating eye. Tolkein's intent was that he is a large humanoid sitting in Barad-Dur. The flaming eye is how Frodo perceives Sauron's attention and focus on the ring.
Can I just say that I really love the green banner in the top right corner of the thumbnails? It's instantly recognizeable in long playlists and gives the thumbnails a nice visual consistency
Agreed.
I've often wondered if Sauron didn't think that the Hobbit carrying the ring had been bumped off in Rivendell so that a superior master could take its place. Seeing the hobbit in Orthanc (as he believed) has a slightly different message if this is the case. Either this means that Saruman has double crossed again and has managed to get himself elected as the one who will wield the ring, which is not good news, or Sauron is just after the hobbits for news of what has become of the Ring. But he never acts as though he thinks Saruman has actually got the ring.
The hobbit who was originally carrying the Ring dying in Rivendell wouldn't be too far a leap for Sauron to make. After all, that Ringbearer had been stabbed with a Morgul Blade, making said hobbit's survival quite unlikely.
Compreendo sua visão. Sauron sabia que o anel estava com os Hobbits depois de Esmeagol. Teve ele tanta certeza de que um homem ou mago o teria faz dele um tolo. @@Jorlem25
Since Aragorn chatted up Sauron the day after he saw the hobbit in Orthanc, he knew Saruman didn't have the Palantir, thus he probably was defeated. The news about the Rohan victory there was probably known by Sauron also.
@@fetjocke wasn’t it more than a day? I thought it was after the battle at Helms Deep, so at least three to seven days?
It’s been awhile. Now I gotta rewatch it again.
That's a pretty impressive behind-the-scenes concept for a battle plan spanning thousands of years for a language professor...
And to add even more credibility to Saurons idea of Aragorn having the ring, nobody actually could destroy the ring. Tolkien has state this. Not even Frodo or Sam, nor Gandalf or Galadriel for that matter. So his strategy makes even more sense in the light of that. It was providence or Eru that in the end, made Smeagol fall into the pit and accidentally destroy the ring. And this was something Sauron just couldn't conceive. Awesome video man
An even better interpretation than chance/Eru, the ring destroys itself.
Frodo made Smeagol swear on the ring to be faithful, and when he attacks him at Mt Doom he curses him with the power of the ring “Begone and trouble me no more! If you touch me ever again. you shall be cast yourself into the Fire of Doom.” So when he attacks Frodo the curse activates and he falls into the fire.
The ring betrays everyone, even itself.
@@BigPimp238 oooooo
@@BigPimp238 ahhh I love this interpretation!
Man, this is by far the best explanation of The Lord of the Rings plot I personally have EVER seen. I have never so fully understand the characters mindset and motivation as I have now. Thank you so much for your time here.
This video is a perfect response to "Why didn't the fellowship just take the eagles to Mordor"; because of the necessary secrecy of the quest.
People forgot that mordor armies have archers lol unless the eagles are somehow impervious to things like that. Which I actually am not sure of but I’m fairly certain an eagle would be shot down before reaching Mt. Doom.
um, nazgul...?
Because the book would be 'A large eagle took off and flew to Mount Doom and dropped the One Ring in. THE END'.
Can the eagles fly in a hurricane? Sauron is substantially more powerful than Gandalf and Saruman, and they can make a strong storm.
@@tachyonites9568In fact, they are capable of many things. After all, in battle they are capable of competing with dragons. However, Sauron is Sauron, and he has the Nazgul at the ready, so it would be a very risky flight, with a high chance of turning into the delivery of the ring directly into the hands of the owner. It is also worth considering that Gandalf is not Manwë, he had no right to command the eagles, he could only ask for help ... and they could very well refuse.
When he said "if you're new to this channel," I was waiting for 'don't forget to like and subscribe'. Instead he just said "welcome" and so I immediately liked and subscribed haha.
2941 was really the most important year in the 3rd Age. Sauron was ousted from Dol Guldur and returned to Mordor earlier than he wanted to, so his eventual attack wasn't as strong as it would have been. Bilbo found the ring, of course, and he and the dwarves got Smaug killed, which may have further saved Middle Earth from Sauron. If Smaug was still alive in 3018-3019, he might have been able to destroy the entire Northern Army of Rohan and attack Rivendell with some orcs to back him up and occupy it. If Bilbo hadn't found the ring, Sauron's power would likely have called Gollum to Mordor and he'd have gotten it, and if Bilbo had still found the ring but Smaug was still alive, the Fellowship may have easily been found and destroyed by Smaug. Everything hinged on the events of 2941.
After the ring gets to Rivendell, I wonder if Sauron expected that Elrond or Gandalf would take it and become an extremely powerful adversary, capable of wielding the One and the Three? Through Saruman he must have known that Gandalf was a Maia.
Gandlaf +Ring = defeat
Elrond + Ring = probabl defeat
But he is planning for another war of Elves and Men, this time with the Ring on the other side - but he seems to be making the assumption that whoever the ring bearer was would not have the time to master it and he tries to precipitate things. Under those circumstances it would make sense to conduct an infantry War to try and make sure that at the last he would face the ring bearer and no army at all, rendering them vulnerable. I wonder if it was an existential surprise to him to find that he was up against not Elrond, nor Gandalf, but the descendant of Elendil with the same sword (and the Ring)? That's not quite as powerful as Gandalf with the ring, but it does have a subsidiary message of "the Fates are against you, boyo!"
I don't think in any moment he is afraid of that, as this video notes, he is actually hoping for that, as long as the ring is not destroyed Sauron is alive and will eventually resurface while the ring no matter whonhas it is always working up on a way to Sauron
I think Tolkien was pretty clear on this point: no one other than Sauron himself could master the ring as it would always betray whomever was wielding it. The Wise knew this and refused to even try.
As a side note, at 7:45 you talk about the blizzard and how the movies portrayed that as Saruman's doing. Which is definitely true. However, in the movie, I loved the detail that Saruman is actually calling on Caradhras to wake up and spill their blood in Quenya. Gandalf's "counterspell" on the other hand is him bidding Caradhras back to sleep and to be still.
What I really like about your channel and these LotR videos is that you point out differences between the books and Jackson's films without suggesting any superiority among them or that someone who has only seen the movies is somehow "less than." It usually helps make sense of things in the movies that seem inconsistent or inexplicable by filling in the holes with the books. I like how they're presented as a sort of team.
Anyway, I just really like your essays!
This is one of your best videos, imo. And that is saying alot. The ending gave me chills. Thank you.
Love it when you re-issue a show. My original version is still Mint-In-Box, and will skyrocket in value. ;)
When the Nazgûl arrived back in Mordor, soggy and empty handed, Sauron should have seriously reassessed his organisation’s personnel structure, not levelled-up their company rides.
Well, they were OK, just a bit too slow and prone to damage by flooding. He solved both of those issues.
You never want to de-fund your security team because there's a security problem.
Goes to show what great bosses Sauron and Saruman really were. When his subordinates were bested by circumstances outside their control, he saw to it that they were more adequately equipped instead of blaming them and laying half of them off. Saruman didn’t take his underling orc foreman’s laments of their industrial incapacity for increased production as a slight on his own authority or as petty complaining; instead, he found a solution to their lack of furnace fuel in the forests of Fangorn. He ordered his foreman to cut them all down, empowering his workers with the resources that they had so eagerly needed and yearned for.
No wonder so many wanted to work for these guys!
@@jefffinkbonner9551 honestly, that fits with Sauron's ideal of trying to "improve" a world the Valar, in his mind, had abandoned. While he was a completely evil and tyrannical overlord, there REALLY is no point to destroy or harm what can still be of use to you.
This is why corporate CEO’s need to rely on an HR department! One being cannot properly oversee everything and everyone, regardless of having an unsleeping eye!
To me, there is nothing more thrilling in all of fiction than the moment when all of Sauron's enemies devices were laid bare and the magnitude of his folly revealed to him. From millennia of planning, to an hour of gloating retribution and soaring pride, to utter incomprehensible despair all at once.
He might be 3'6" but that sythe charging through the corn was scarier than anything else.
Wonderful video and commentary. Though, I thought with the mentioning of Unfinished Tales, there'd be mention of the freshly dispatched (by water) Ringwraiths arriving at the gates of Orthanc. One of my favourite scenes. Saruamn putting his voice on the gates and telling the Nine that if he had the ring they would be calling him Master. Then a wonderful moment where they, while invisible, accost Wormtongue on his way from Edoras. Questioning and terrorising him.
Unfinished Tales has a few wonderful 'deleted scenes' from the books,
Sauron had forgotten the words spoken to Melkor and all the Ainur in the Timeless Halls by Eru Iluvatar: "And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined." Melkor finally realized that when he was thrust out of the world, and I think that in those last staggering seconds before the One Ring completely dissolved in the lava of the Cracks of Doom, Sauron grasped their full meaning also. Who save for Eru alone could have arranged for Sauron's downfall to have been accomplished by Hobbits, the least of all the Free Peoples of the Earth?
16:06 i think Gandalf said sauron judges everyone as he would himself. Meaning hed use the ring so he judged others would too.
I gotta say, this has been one of the most informative and intuitive takes on Sauron’s perspective in LOTR and I loved every minute!
You good sir have earned a sub
Damn, pretty deep interpretation. Well done.
I just love this perspective, It truly does give so much more insight to, “why didn’t he do this, or why they didn’t do that”. Love it!
What I love most about the Lord of the Rings and what sets it apart from most other fantasy novels I have read is the fact that ultimately, evil wasn’t brought down by heroism, force, or violence, but buy good virtues like love (for things that grow), selflessness, and… mercy. Bilbo‘s mercy did, in the end, indeed rule the fate of many.
Frodo failed in his mission
Evil was brought down by evil itself
@@robertunderwood1011gollum was alive because Bilbo had mercy on him.
What an incredible video. I think it helps me to realize why I like Sauron so much, and it’s because he doesn’t just seem to magically know everything like most villains. He has the upper hand, but there many things he didn’t know
Sauron: Hacks! I call hacks! I am the great deceiver, you could not have deceived me! My plan was perfect!
I especially liked this one. Thank you for diving in. 😀☮️
You are too good at narrating and your Voice and info is so interesting I struggle sleeping 🤙
British, ya see.😊
@@Mallarkey love the brits:)
Wow, beautifully written in a style akin to the content. No glib, contemporary sarcasm.
Beautifully read as well, clear and sympathetic to the purpose.
Thank you!
Really interesting character study, the broader point about Sauron simply failing to understand that not everybody wants to take power for themselves is very perceptive, and definitely lines up with the cynical worldview that you typically find espoused by dictators and their lackeys around the world.
Love your videos mate. One listening can get a real glimpse into the love and passion you have for these fantasy worlds. I thank you for always delivering a goal with these.
Just goes to show, good intelligence wins wars. If Sauron had gotten an actual traitor in the fellowship, or in the hosts of the elves, he would have known where the Ring was, and he very likely would have won.
There's a wonderful duology of books, it's a little more from Melkor's perspective than Sauron's, but it still tracks. It's called The Sundering, by Jacqueline Carey. The first book is Banewreaker, and the second is Godslayer. They offer a very poignant perspective of a version of this tale from the opposing side (though of course it is inspired by LotR not any part of the actual canon). They are very hard to find now, but they always made me love the the original books more.
I absolutely love all the artwork included in this video!
I just really like that Sauron's last moments were him going "FUCK FUCK FUCK".
I haven't watched the LotR since I first got the extended versions on DVD so very long ago but this really has recaptured my imagination. Thank you.
One of my favourite books on this idea is a two part series by Jaqualine Carey, author of the Kushiel's Legacy Series, called The Sundering. Book one is Banewrecker the second Godslayer and are a LotR style story just told from the villains perspectives.
Wow. Just found this video on a lark. Really interesting. I've seen the extended films a few times, but this adds a terrific perspective and details I'd not thought of. Thanks much!
Not to be forgotten, and supporting the theory that Sauron closed the Redhorn Gate with a blizzard, was the fact that the Fellowship encountered werewolves (wargs) the day before they entered Moria. That they were werewolves - - one of Sauron's specialties from the First Age, remember - - is indicated by no bodies of dead wolves being found after the battle, even though many were slain.
This was SOOO good! I just want to thank you for making this because I've been a fan of LOTR for a long time but I've never seen someone provide this angle. I'm actually a big strategy nerd and this video really provided such an interesting viewpoint into the mental chess game the heroes were playing against Sauron. It's fascinating to see the actual strategical thoughts behind the movements Sauron made against the Fellowship and Gandalf. I never was able to see all the thoughts behind what he was doing because he's always depicted as an disembodied eye in the films.
I always wondered what Sauron’s end game was. Like, say he wins. Now he’s lord of a dead middle earth filled with orcs, spiders, I guess evil men? Like, where do you go from there? Do you say, ok guys, I need some of you orcs to make some music and art or something so we aren’t bored?. Do the orcs and men become friends with each other and slowly over time, one steals another’s cabbage and sauron has to make laws so his subjects get along until more rules have to be made until one day it just becomes a regular society like ours today and Sauron wakes up to realize he’s just a regular king? I guess what I’m asking is, was his only desire to be a ruler?
In some sense, yes. But since Sauron only cared about dominating others, his society would've been based on slavery, tyranny and oppression. I don't think it would've lead to a very stable society, by that's neither here or there.
This helped me understand the arc much better, even after years of rereading. Sometimes the details are easier to see than the higher plot.
12:55 - "...both of those things shouldn't have happened from Sauron's perspective." From the depths of Mordor comes the sound of a distant angry cry: "goddamn hackers!"
Something missing (though you've likely covered it in a previous video) is Sauron's perspective overall in relation to his motivations and why he wanted to do what he did (re Morgoth)
Worth watching Sauron's Perspective again.
This is a great retelling from another perspective and really goes to show how well the fellowship actually succeeded in their task; it wasn't a quest of military might but rather subterfuge.
I just read the end of Fellowship of the Rings last night so it's fresh in my head. Frodo actually puts the ring on twice to escape Boromir and the rest of the company (bar Sam). It's kind of odd because he avoids Sauron while he sits on the throne but then a few moments later he uses the ring again without fear to cross the river. Frodo doesn't even take the ring off again until he pulls Sam from the river when Sam follows him.
That because Amon Hen is a special place. Obviously, Frodo was easy to spot only on the seat (or near it, as he was kneeling before it when took off the Ring).
@@Adam-ne7qc Okay that is a fare assumption to make of Amon Hen as it was a "seeing place" like Barad-dur and Orthanc. And the book isn't too clear regarding how far the seat an Amon Hen actually was from the campsite by the river
@@Adam-ne7qcI love hen meat
This is so freaking interesting. What a great way to summarize his thoughts at the end. He was shocked to find it under his nose by someone so unassuming and unwanting to use it for battle or their own personal gain. It just never crossed Sauron's mind that anyone would look to immediately destroy it.
Sauron just wants lots of friends and to give everyone big hugs
and rings
@@Greg29”rings of friendship”
Annatar Lord of Gifts,of course he really wanted to be generous.
He only ever wanted to dance the ballet, but his da called him a sissy and hit him with a piece of chain to "make a man out of him"!
Amazon version wanted to smash Galadriel. He dodged a big bullet there
A show from sauron's perspective would awesome
Some much needed Sauron apologia.
Sauron did nothing wrong!!1!
Great word
@@TheAmericanPrometheus Is this your Tookish side talking?
You try to bring some order and industry to Peoples and this is how they repay your labor and generosity.
@@paulbigbee so Sauron basically colonial /imperialistic UK?
What an awesome video. Simple and easy to understand. The comments here are also very informative. Cheers to all
I'm feeling kinda dumb for only realizing now that even when Sauron was defeated in the Pelennor fields the war was pretty much won for him. Makes Frodo and the hobbits look even more badass for saving Middle Earth from total defeat in the very last seconds.
In addition to being a great reformer who would bring law and order in a scenario of cultural decay after the War of Wrath, I think Sauron saw himself as a Promethean figure who would lift Humanity out of cultural prehistory and technological ignorance: The Silmarillion says that the men of the East and South built cities of stone and had access to metallurgical knowledge.
And bringing economic benefits: he proved himself a good economist in Númenor by multiplying the Island's wealth.
Furthermore, he had to see himself as a deity of a great world unification: a single theocratic government, a technocratic political-economic system and a religious reformer to bring true belief through dogmatic ideas.
This religious engineering reminds me (in some ways) of Gnosticism: a liberating god (Melkor) to rid rational beings of "Archons" (Valar) from a "Demiurgic monster" (Eru) who imprisoned everyone in a world of war and death. Interesting that Sauron spoke this of Melkor in the Second Age, but later he claimed to be Melkor in the Third Age.
When I was 5 or 6, my dad read these books to me. Except he passed them off as real, and said he was at the Pelanor Fields, fighting for Gondor. His genius in story telling was that he didn’t make himself important. Sure, he had met Aragorn and the Hobbits. But didn’t understand their importance (tho he WAS the first to call Aragorn “your royal highness” in the middle of this very battle. It was so great to hear him tell the tales. Pure, innocent joy is how I felt. I’ll never forget the feeling.
You've done a masterful job as always!
Excellent commentary! Thank you for another thoughtful video. It is quite interesting looking at it from an actual character Sauron's view instead of just the remote powerful villain...
After The Ring of Power, I’m afraid to say that I’ve always wanted a film story of the “lives” of the Nazgûl. From their earthly positions, to their corruption on to their demise.
Would demystify them, no?
Thoroughly enjoyed the detailed look into the perspective of Sauron. Thank you for a great video.
Sauron for 99% of the last 3,000 years:
“Man I am so good at evil. This is going great.”
Sauron for the last five minutes:
“..Well s*it.”
What a great conclusion. A video essay well suited for great books... and evil times.
Excellent video. I imagine Sauron in Barad-dúr watching the Army of the West matching into his jaws. He must've exulted.
"At last! Victory is mine!"
Since he had a body, he must've felt a shudder in his bones when Frodo put on the Ring.
"Oh shiiiiiiiiiiit!"
Yeah, basically everything is going to plan, even losing at Minas Tirith is a minor setback at worst, he can just do it again. He knows it. The enemy knows it. He's won. And then it's all gone just like that.
“And far away, as Frodo put on the Ring and claimed it for his own, even in Sammath Naur the very heart of his realm, the Power in Barad-dur was shaken, and the Tower trembled from its foundations to its proud and bitter crown."
The entire tower shuddered in fear.
Wow, great video! I’ve never thought about what Sauron would or wouldn’t know, since he always seemed almost omniscient as the Big Bad
It's interesting that despite the fact that good and evil are strongly defined in Tolkien's work, the powers of Evil were still ultimately corrupted powers, who had once been good. The likes of Sauron and Morgoth did not see themselves as being evil or necessarilg doing evil things. They believed they were right and acting in a reasonable way against their foes.
It's a form of evil that resonates with real life evil that we see in today's world, and is far from being just a classical and unrealistic representation of "Biblical style Evil."
Thanks for all your hard work Robert, I’ve been enjoying your channel immensely as of late. Cheers.
❓ Why would Sauron be more powerful? He was Maiar (just like the wizards). Sauron’s power is seeking power itself (domination and control). Wizards are of the Istari order of Maiar (limited from using their full powers in middle earth). Was Sauron simply not limited by Eru Ilúvatar?
🔹 Eru Ilúvatar made the Valar. Valar made Maiar. Both Valar and Maiar are Ainur (magical/divine beings of Eru, simply greater and lesser power).
🔹 or was it that Sauron was never limited to a mortal form (such as the wizards)?
I understand it that the wizards were sent in mortal form to limit their powers, and only allowed to hold as much power as the mortal form could possess, limited to only thier assignments and indirect power to influence/inspire. Thus, when Gandalf the Grey died, he was sent back in a new physical form (with more memory/experience) with the same mission/assignment. Using the remembered experiences, was able to take the Gandalf the White form that held reinvigorated purpose and (using the memories) held more/different powers. (As white, he also still retained Narya ring.)
🔹 Sauron was not encased in a moral form, thus was Sauron unlimited in power? What was Sauron’s assignment? What was his role in creation?
🔹 other Maiar were: Balrog, Melian, Aiwendil, Ossë and Uinen, Eönwë… (was Manwë ever on middle earth?). Were these Maiar limited in a physical form?
Ilúvatar created both the Valar and the Maiar. None of them had their power limited when they entered Arda. Every Maia is an individual and as such has different abilities; some are stronger than others. While Tolkien never does anything like assign power rankings, you can get a decent idea of the overall power of some of them from the text. Sauron was one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful, of the Maia. He was more powerful than any of the Maia who later became known as the Istari. When the Istari went to Middle-Earth, it was the Valar who limited their power and had them take the form of old men. After Gandalf the Grey fell in the fight against Durin's Bane, it was Ilúvatar who brought him back, restored much (possibly all) of his native power) and sent him back as Gandalf the White.
@@istari0 Of the Maiar, The Eight (Aratar) were the most powerful with Menwë as leader.
The concept of Sauron not being limited to a mortal physical form comes from The Silmarillion and LOTR. Sauron possessed the ability to change forms (unlike the Ishtar order of the Maiar who were constrained by their physical forms as wizards).
I’m not sure about the other Maiar I mentioned, thus an open question if they (like the Balrog) WERE the physical forms (or were they more like Sauron and able to take shape as they could).?
Okay… about different Ainur creations with different powers/capabilities… I can appreciate that, just wasn’t certain. They could all be equals as Maiar, just with different focus/passions. Sauron apprenticed to Aulë, then to Melkor(aka:Morgoth). And those passions get to rebellion (Melkor and Sauron). Melkor was judged by the Valar and sentenced to The Void. No mention of why Sauron was able to remain… other than that his One Ring likely preserved him as an anchor to Eä (the non-void (actual universe)). Still… was Sauron judged by the Valar? With destruction of the One Ring, was Sauron finally fully banished to The Void?
Baggins and shire are the same thing that was being said in the north after Smaug was killed. It’s pretty sure Sauron would have heard of the name, just that he didn’t know who it was.
I get the feeling Sauron (or one of his lieutenants) is back in the 7th age, producing reality TV shows.
I just finished reading the series, and Sauron's defeat reminded me of Red's narration of Warden Norton's death in The Shawshank Redemption. "I like to think the last thing that went through his head (other than that bullet) was to wonder how the Hell Andy Dufresne ever got the best of him." Everything was going well until the moment it wasn't, and then it was going just about as poorly as it could for Sauron.
these 'other perspective' videos are excellent
Thank you Robert, showing a new angle in this Epic which is always a good thing. Fascinating Cheers.
Question: If Sauron had a physical form by when the ring was destroyed, where exactly was him? Maybe inside Barad-dûr? I wish we all could've seen his final moments of despair.
Sauron dwelled in the highest tower of Barad-dur.
He lives in Barad dur. He dies/is disembodied as the ring is melted though, and not killed in the collapse of the tower.
@@thecappeningchannel515wow!!!!
Sauron's fatal mistake was so simple, he thought everyone would have the same love for power as he did.
He couldn't imagine anything else and ultimately that cost him everything. Love it.
Mordor dark lords and maia: What did they know, did they know things? Let's find out!
That was a beautifully presented, interesting analysis. Some of that artwork was amazing.
Didn't the army of Mordor that attacked Minas Tirith march to Minas Tirith from Minas Morgul? At around 12:10 in the vid, IDG implies that the Mordor army traveled through the Black Gate, which is nowhere near Minas Morgul. Frodo, Sam and Smeagol first try to enter into Mordor at the Black Gate but give up and then go south to the Morgul Vale where they do get into Mordor.
This is an awesome and insightful analysis of the events discussed in this video. Kudos to the author - and thanks for the clear and terse investigation and explanation of the complexities of the thoughts and actions of the major players in this critical period in the story of Middle Earth. TYVM!!!