Go to squarespace.com/captainmidnight and use code "captainmidnight" to get 10% off a website or domain. Do you think Vox was right about the MCU? Here's the link to their video! th-cam.com/video/t2qZ2_tp-jY/w-d-xo.html&t=
Thank you SO MUCH for calling them out on the Spider-Man thing. Like, of all the MCU movies, I feel like homecoming is the closest thing to a true sequel to the original avengers (besides other avengers movies). It basically took the ideas going on the Netflix shows about the human aspect of the battle of New York and turn it into a movie. Also, I know vox is a huge company with dozens of writers but it’s clearly clickbait when they release a video complaining about the MCU, yet 90% of their marvel reviews on their website are glowing
There's nothing wrong with calling out stupid when you see it. What Vox put forth is dumb. What Captain Midnight did is okay, but he would have done just as well to throw Vox under the bus.
"Sir, the MCU is threatened by a well-made but flawed video essay by a popular channel!" "Make the call..." [gasp] "You don't mean...?" "Yes, this is a job for Captain Midnight!"
I definitely think the worst part of vox's video was comparing the work of Stan Lee, Jack Kerby and Steve Ditko to a ham fisted sitcom cross over from the 70's. I mean a planned out comic book universe filled with interesting and dynamic characters is not the same as a cheap cash grab.
Marvel is super cash grab like Thanos existed become marvel wanted there own DC , jack kirby style darkseid. Vox is saying the corporate hand could fuck mcu up for money the way a bad sitcom crossovers were only done for profit
Jim Henson's crossovers feel more like universes then those, for crying out loud! And those were mostly just him and his crew paying tribute to the projects he's done over the years! But, seriously, Muppet Family Christmas was awesome!
The MCU isn’t a bunch of crossovers, it’s a universe that takes its time to tell the story of every individual in that crossover. Justice League felt like a crossover; Avengers felt like it was meant to happen.
Especially when the only characters that have been given any kind of development were Superman and Wonder Woman. Batman, Aquaman, and Flash might as well have been pulled out of thin air. It was completely backwards on WBs part to have solo films AFTER the team up film, not to mention they are missing key members like Green Lantern and Martian Manhunter. Maybe they hate the color green?
@@DerpaTure9503 Ah yes, the movie that literally changed the entire universe with a time-jump and major repercussions, dozens of character arcs moving forward, left the universe defenseless without Infinity Stones and explored the depth of loss was "empty". Next you're gonna tell us how fanservice is bad and that time-travel is the worst thing in fiction lol
@ra al You might want to check the date of the comment and when the video was released. The MCU has destroyed itself trying to replicate what it did so well in the lead up to infinity war.
@ra al Big news story coming in today. Turns out executing something well makes it good, executing it horribly makes it bad. And don't think I didn't notice you spamming the same comment in every comment thread desperate for validation.
Wilo Polis I understand in an environment flooded with video essays people will try to stand out with 2edgy Marvel sux videos, but still, they’re cringe as hell.
Wilo Polis Agreed. What sucks even more is people seemingly eat this shit up. I mean the views speak for themselves. I also always wonder who falls for the clickbait thumbnails. I don’t know, the whole thing bugs me to no end.
Your video matched my thoughts, but further expanded upon. It was a bloated explanation of crossovers, with glossy editing that didn't explain their point clearly (there is a kernel of an idea to work with), and of course the biggest sin committed was wasting 10 minutes of my time. No wonder when I first watched the video it had up to 80 to 90% dislikes, it didn't just insult the MCU, it insulted the fans, and an entire medium.
Yeah, that video is more of a criticism of shallow crossovers than well constructed fictional universes. MCU is a beautiful place. The box-office numbers, critical acclaim, fan engagement, franchise endurance, and many more things are a testament to that. The level of care that Kevin Feige and co. have taken in constructing it has shown why none of its pale imitators have had the widespread success or appeal that MCU has garnered across all demographics. It might eventually feel the weight of its expansiveness eventually down the road in the future but right now following the massive success of Infinity War, MCU is in the peak of its powers. Avengers 4 is probably the most anticipated movie in film history.
@@TheRishijoesanu as someone who loves art films and often wait for anything by martin scorsese, quentin tarantino, lynne ramsay, sofia coppola, lars von trier, and any art-house filmmaker. i love the mcu. to me, they're no different from what the art house filmmakers do. they're just telling stories that are fun with cool characters and high stakes. vox's video is just shallow and snobby. the fact that the mcu got ryan coogler, anna boden and ryan fleck, taika waititi, and james gunn to provide ideas for the mcu that have their own ideas but with ideas that is expected from these films are just awesome. plus, give kevin feige credit for not just overseeing everything and get whoever he can get for those films but also pay respect to the source material as he is what harry saltzman and cubby broccoli are when they oversaw the james bond franchise and it's still going well thanks to broccoli's daughter and stepson. as long as we have people who give a shit about movies and make sure audiences get more bang for their buck. things will be fine.
The Batman(the person I am replying to) MCU and comics MCU, are totally different except for the characters I am sure Stan Lee in his heart would agree with Vox
Thank you for explaining it! Man the Vox video made my head hurt and I had no idea where to start. You flushed my ideas out nicely and coherently. Oh, and it sucks that Vox made such an error of a video because their videos are usually astonishingly good - and especially their editing!
Everything about it was just wrong...starting with the guy who brought forward the argument. There was something about the way he talked which made it really, really hard to listen to. But the worst part was really the line of argumentation. It is just deeply dishonest to act as if the MCU movies are only connected by vague references while also citing two MCU movies which even had guest appearances by other characters in the story, and then turn around and act as if the X-men of all franchises did a better job of telling an overreaching narrative.
I dientes like the Marvel video neither, but meh no big problem. A really big problem I have with Vox (and maaaany other amazing educational/informational channels) is that they get into the political situation of other countries and just see the situation as if it was in the US. They don't really understand the mentality of the people in the other country, the context, culture and history.
There's a very bothering plothole in homecoming. Peter has the Lego death star set. That's like $500. He can afford a $500 Lego set but has to dumpster dive and build himself a shit spec'd computer? :P
@Jay Exci What are you talking about, your response to the same video was well put together and well argued despite your lack of Captain Midnight's knowledge in comics...
Nailed it. So many I know, young and old, who don't like the MCU just make it out to be drivel or childish, without ever giving it a chance. Sure it's not for everybody, but dismissing something you don't see the appeal of is just shallow.
@@perotekku I wish more people could share this mindset. More and more people are getting completely dismissive of things that they dont like or understand. Its frustrating.
@@NickPotatoes I know it,s been 3 years since your comment.... but damn, number of people who think hating on popular thing makes them cool is way too high. " But but comics ...are for kids" or "this just all comedy" or " guys in colorful pants are cringe". Just move along and stop pretending you are something special.
So, a thing I find kind of interesting about their argument that you didn't mention (and probably others in these 2000 comments already have, but just in case): Mork and Mindy didn't "crossover" with Happy Days. Mork from Ork was a character who appeared in Happy Days and was so popular, he got his own show. It's not a crossover, it's a spinoff.
I didn't say any of that, but I'd hate to strain you by expecting you to actually read what I did say or approach anything with some semblance of nuance, but keep stumping for Vox, I guess? I'm sure they appreciate it.
Just goes to show that Vox thought of the idea before formulating any sort of sense or foundation to back it up with. They don't really make a single good point that links back to their original question.
Vox is kinda sounds like a salty guy at fox entertainment. That acts like he knows everything but he's more likely to be a part of the problem than the reason a movie might be an success.
Nah, they are mostly interested in actually explaining stuff. The problem here is that the question they were tying to explain was "Why do some people feel tired of the MCU", which is already a loaded and biased perspective. It's just a moment of overreach and weak arguing.
Vox lost me when he tried to use the Tarintinoverse as an example of....not being a connected universe. Most fans consider the tarintino movies to all be connected and Tarinto himself has never denied it either.
@@mario199923 dude. I know the feeling. When that happens to me, I proofread my text to be sure it ready. That being said, I WISH his name was Tarinto! Sounds like a more interesting name!
It's like Vox doesnt understand that the MCU is based of Marvel Universe from the comics. Dude like Spiderman, Daredevil, Kingpin, FF, and the OG Avengers all lived in NYC. But if they put that in a live action film, Vox would be like "Why are all these characters in New York? Seems forced!"
Honestly my main problem with this video was its structure. It took him a solid 5 -6 minutes to even kinda start talking about what the video was about, and by then the video was mostly over *Vox's video not midnight''s
Nitro Mouthpiece I think they’re just confused that you decided to correct them on their personal problem with the video. You’re not even adding much to their point
One of the things I love about the Marvel Universe is that it feels so much like our world but with superheroes and mythology actually real. It feels like I can go to New York and see Iron Man and Captain Marvel flying through the air. Captain America outside the UN building, Spider-Man swinging around and Daredevil listening from hid perch atop a building. It feels real to me. Inversely, it's probably why DC doesn't draw me as much as Marvel does. DC just doesn't have that feeling. I don't feel like I can find the Thermyscaria embassy in DC or take that one exit while in Delaware and get to Gotham. The locations in DC are a little too fantastically for me to feel like I can go find them. Where Marvel feels more firmly rooted in our reality.
@@chargedonpc9989 wow, I respect that, BUT in my opinion, Dc feels more realistic because of the characters of how they were written and surprisingly, their world building feels art imitating life because the truth is, the real world is NOT A GOOD PLACE, HOPELESS HOME, EMPTY (Mentally) LOCATIONS AND HEAVILY FLAWED PEOPLE instead of perfect mary sues . example: Watchmen, man of steel, V for vendetta, Batman begins, a history of violence, BVS DOJ ULTIMATE EDITION, Superman the movie 1 donner cut, superman 2 donner cut, Batman Forever, Return Of The Swamp Thing, GREEN LANTERN ULTIMATE EXTENDED CUT, THE ROAD TO PERDITION, THE DARK KNIGHT RISES, Shazam, the dark knight, wonder woman , aquaman, birds of prey, suicide squad, Batman Returns, Superman Returns, Batman 1989, Jonah Hex, Swamp Thing, The Losers, The Kitchen and lastly, Joker. in my opinion, these feel relatable to me And they age better better than I remember since I USED TO HATE DC movies, BUT NOT anymore MOSTLY.
@@constantinezoelayman3132 that’s also a good argument because marvel does make the heroes seem a little too powerful sometimes where as seems to be more open to making there characters have weakness like kryptonite
I'm glad I found this video. The Vox one made me so confused I was wondering if I missed the point they were making, or if the video itself was all over the place. The point I actually came away with on that video is that "cinematic universes are bad because we say so"
I would definitely say that while marvel doesn’t produce as drastically different tonal films as fox, they definitely aren’t afraid to change things up. If you put winter soldier on and then ragnarok, you wouldn’t even say that they are in the same genre unless you knew about marvel, yet put on infinity war and both characters feel at home together. I love vox, but they definitely missed the mark here
Mentocthemindtaker Pff “critics” nowadays are just a mass of teens that will give good grades to anything they like, there are exceptions, but most will just say “it’s a movie for kids, you’re not supposed to think, just to have fun”
You mention "outside the boundaries of reality around every corner" and that's why the MCU is so great. The MCU establishes itself on a simple governing premise: Take our universe, there are six stones representing fundamental aspects of existence. This universe is controlled by the same physics ours is. Magic, such as Thor's lightning, is simply incredibly advanced technology. These stones, existing since the beginning of the universe, allow control over that aspect. But the only way to break physical laws in the MCU is to use an infinity stone or a combination of infinity stones. So now we have a universe where legitimately crazy shit happens all the time. Aliens confirmed. Oh yeah we fought em, somehow won. Africa had a secret country, and they are like Halo level tech. We out in space representing humanity. And I'm not talking on some dinky asteroid freighter. Nah we got wormholes and cloaking and lasers and shit. But all of it, is believable. Though sometimes far fetched, every character's powers in the MCU has a backing in science. Just watch Because Science explain how Thor's hammer is actually manipulating gravitons so he can fly. Can we manipulate gravitons like that? Who knows? Hell, we don't even know if gravitons exist yet, they're only hypothetical. But they are a legitimate point of study in current science. Essentially, the MCU is amazing because it takes the unbelievable, gives it a believable reason to exist in the world, and makes you wonder what crazy shit might be going on in your world. Maybe, just maybe, somewhere far off in the inky black of our own sky, a raccoon and a sentient tree are helping an angel pirate make a badass axe out of a neutron star with the help of Tyrion Lannister.
Feel the exact same way about Vox. They something stray into making the "cutting edge opinion" videos that are different, just to stick out. Sometimes it works, giving a new perspective, but most of the time it looks like click bait due to how idiotic they have to make their arguments in order to justify shitting on something that everyone agrees is rated well.
This VOX guy is completely biased. That's it. He simply doesn't like shared universes and tries to build an argument based on bad examples which barely relates to what Marvel Studios has been done since their first movie. He doesn't understand that the Marvel universe was built as a completely cohesive and integrated universe since it's beginning. All it's heroes are supposed to live in the same world. They are NOT forcing crossovers. Thats how the comics universe are and he doesn't understand it.
I have to agree (with OP, lol). His criticism started with Marvel Comics, not the MCU. It was the kind of complaint that is usual best answered by asking why the complainer even consumes the media if they hate it so much.
I guess midnight hates crossovers too and doesnt understand the marvel universe either, because he mostly agrees with the main points of the vox video.
Bee Whistler Hating? At what point did Vox even say they didn’t like MCU films? They were criticizing it, which apparently is considered a sin by MCU fanboys because they can’t take the argument the MCU is not as good as they think it is, and it’s even worse, because the movies barely get criticized, as if critics just give them whatever rating to have some credibility or just flat out think that these movies don’t have to be good in order to be considered as such.
This was very well written and refreshing! I've had a lot of complaints about the MCU over the years, but certainly not the ones stated in Vox's video. I really have to give props to them for keeping up something that seems so difficult to maintain. Imagine having to make movies about individual heroes, with individual tones, also while weaving plot elements together in order for a crossover movie to take place. It's extremely difficult, but at the end of the day I'm only impressed that they tried something new at a time where everyone else is doing the same thing with movies. What I really have complaints about is that because of the MCU, now everyone else wants to make a cinematic universe, and, more often than not, it doesn't turn out as well thought out. Also, am I the only one who loves the corny transitions? XD
One thing about the Ant-Man "Call the Avengers" scene that neither the Vox video nor your video touched on is that it also comes from a very character-driven place. Scott is overwhelmed by everything that's happening and everything he's hearing about for the first time, and he's not confident that he's up to the task. He thinks it's too big for him, pun intended. Yes, suggesting that Hank call the Avengers is certainly to address the obvious question fans would be asking in their own heads, but it's also a very human thing for Scott or anyone in his position to do and makes perfect logical sense from his character at that point in his journey.
he sort of touched on that saying that's what a normal person would do as they are the main hero group but I believe that it's one of the more forced reasons to add in the continuity of the avengers. It's also a way to build up the pairing though because in the comics Hank Pym worked with the avengers. It's no Ragnarock but there is still a lot of thought going into these scenes. At least more than "oi oi the avengers are a thing, lets call them so they can boost our profit"
@@guthrowtaylorjohnson5758 I didn't think it was forced at all seeing as we saw Peggy Carter and Stark in the beginning of the film. And the fact Hank claims his tech could destroy the world, is a fitting logical choice to think of the Avengers for help.
My opinion isn't that they used the mention of the avengers wrong but that they could have found a better reason. Maybe Hank was good friends with Anthony Stark was a personal thing I was looking for in that movie but was a disappointed. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion but that's mine.
I think they had to start doing that because of all the times in previous character-specific movies where I left the theater going "why didn't he call [one of the other Avengers] to help with this?" I really appreciated the realism added by that scene, because if this were a real world with real people, your first thought is going to be to ask the other superheroes for help. You either have to wrap up the other heroes so they're unavailable, give a real reason why they wouldn't be able to help in this situation, or in this case, refuse to ask for help. Simply not mentioning them at all is unrealistic and leaves the audience wondering.
Kiryn Silverwing this is the main reason why I dislike the end of ant man. Surely he being a hero would have heard of the crazy sightings of aliens and purple fortnite skins. You should check out how it should have ended's video on it.
The problem with that video is that it puts a fan theory and a bunch of 1940's afterthought crossovers in the same lane as a well-thought-out string of movies. Like, comparing Tarantino's Red Apple to a Bruce Banner Easter egg is so bafflingly stupid that it draws in knee-jerk reactions from fans who'll gloss over the main problem with that: Bruce Banner is a real breathing character in that universe that has been seen multiple times and has a whole "Jekyll and Hyde" situation going, but it's funny to see that for "normal people", he's just a very smart boring scientist. Even an MCU Easter egg has a myriad of layers. It's not an empty universe and it's not overrated. It's smart and thought-out, unlike Vox's video.
Mysterious Middle East, yeeeah I didn’t even click on that one or the All the Heroes are Villains one. Those kind of videos tend to be obnoxious instead of interesting
Not even forgettable. It was downright infuriatingly stupid because it simply threw logic and common sense out the window to argue a concept that even a child could understand. To top it all off its also being explained by a smug idiot trying to sound smart
Not only did it feel like they were fishing for clicks (which they probably got) but the whole video felt like that irritating hipster that brings up a bunch of little known mostly useless tidbits of information into the essay that make it sound smarter than the argument actually is. I'm glad that CaptainMidnight called that out as a bad comparison. but like I say, I don't think that they made the comparison because it was a good one, I think they made it because not everyone knows about the snowglobe fan theory, and bringing new context to the table makes it seem like "if only you knew as much as I do you would see it the way I do". I knew the vox video was clickbait when I saw it. I knew I shouldn't have clicked on it, but I honestly wanted to see if they had valid points. through the whole video I disagreed with almost every argument that they made, because as this video stated very well, they made statements in the context that props up their point. and in the end I think they mainly took that position because they knew people like me would want to hear them out. I think one of the opening statements they made kinda made me realize that they look at the MCU and marvel differently than I do. something about wipe out half of them and there is still too many. I actually really like the vast collaboration of characters in the MCU. To me it shows that we all rely on each other, it gives lots of different types of characters to relate to. Ive always liked team up movies. and I think that these are the things that VOX is missing here.
Thankyou! Of course it was a great video, and you made some really good points, but I'm just really happy you explain what Vox was saying, because I reeeally didn't understand that video!😁
Ida Kiilerich HAHA exactly! After I watched that Vox video when it first came out, I really did not understand the video one bit. But after watching this CM video I finally get where the Vox video is getting at 😂 The video is so messy
Thank you for the calm, measured and poignant response. I'll never get why some people are so damn eager to jump on every passing hate train and trash something (Vox in this case) that they disagree with or is wrong. I would babble on about a nuanced and more thoughtful approach but I get the sense that some just want something to take out their anger on and really don't care. (Mandatory disclaimer: Not all people.. etc. Nothing wrong with disliking the video, I do too) In any case, I like Vox but I think they kind of dropped the ball on this one. I can see the nugget of a good idea they had, and MCU _could_ be a suitable topic for their Overrated series, but it feels like they didn't really do their homework. Based on the title, I actually expected the Vox video to be about how we haven't really seen how the shared experience of alien invasions, gods and magic has affected people's lives (we've seen some bits and pieces in the movies, but mostly shots of news reports don't make the world seem alive). I don't need any deep dives, but I'd like to see more world-building through minor characters. I think they're heading in that direction, because Homecoming proved how you can focus on smaller things and still get a sense of scale. Their world of superheroes has never seemed more real than in that high school - Cap doing PSAs was funny but made also a surprising amount of sense, and the reaction (or lack thereof) by the teens further established the kind of reality they live in.
I haven’t managed to pick my jaw up off the floor after hearing that either. I mean, seriously??! With a couple of exceptions the X-men movies have been objectively awful adaptations, and the older ones really haven’t aged well. Their success is 90% based on Hugh Jackman’s personal popularity. I get the feeling this Vox fella is just trolling us all... 🙄
If there's one thing I cannot stand it's people saying "The MCU is completely soulless and made only for the money". Because not only is it insulting to the filmmakers who do work hard to make quality products but it also implies that anything that isn't part of the MCU is made purely for artistic merit which is just total bullshit. A lot of movies that you see nominated for a best picture Oscar were not made because the director had some great vision but because some studio exec thought "Man, if I play my cards right I could get that nominated for an Oscar and make tons of money".
The Laughing Magician just because they’re well planned out and effectively made? They have a clear story in mind. If they take their time and go through production hell, that’s the DCEU. They make these films efficiently and have learned over the years how to manage multiple productions.
Its like they think Marvel make these movies for free. These guys make movies for money for making more and better movies that would be more memorable which also creates income for them and for our side, better entertainment.
You’re the best, man. After seeing Vox’s video (all the way through) I was wondering if you’d make a response! The video didn’t even feel like a true Vox video, but one from a parallel earth.
Anger and hostility just makes things worse in an argument. Politeness is a much more effective weapon which Captain Midnight wielded better than Cap's shield.
I remember Jim Shooter , Marvel former Editor in Chief, making the continuity on the Marvel Universe a priority. Is there was a scene of a broken window in one issue of one comic there be another scene of a different title where that window was being repair. A small detail but maintaining the continuity.
THANK YOU! I didn't want to validate his weird video by commenting on it; I wondered if he was just trolling to be honest and still think he may have been (makes for good viewer engagement right?) ANYHOW YOU explained what was wrong with his video so well, and I felt, like I think you described, being disappointed since often I find VOX videos informative and that one made me wonder about how misleading others I had trusted might have been. So, thanks again, well done. :)
I find it weird that people call the constraints of the MCU "artistic compromise", because to me it's like saying a painter's canvases are a compromise because they aren't 3d. The connectivity of the MCU is an artistic choice, one that is very deliberately made to tell a story that can only be told in this medium. To change the medium would be to change the art, not free it from compromises.
I get the impression whoever the prime movers behind this were are just upset at MCU's dominance over the film business. I fail to see why that is Marvel's fault, given that response to this domination has been tepid at best.
Over twenty films and no major awards, few nominations (not even special effects) As a comic fan I love that these movies are being made. But these movies are not that great on their own. Arguing about “how great the connectivity is” is really about hyping the next movie not about the movies individually.
X Men? The guys at Voxed think X Men is a better take on linked films? X Men timeline is a fucking mess full of retcons! And half of those films don't only suck but they fail to fit in the narrative! You can call Marvel on their blandness and formulaic nature, mostly phase 2 which kinda sucked, but you just can't say Fox made a better job on anything, Logan and Deadpool were great but those are 3 films out of how many? And look at how bad their interconnection work! They had to recast everyone in X Men!
I always look at the X-Men franchise as a failed experiment in MCU style storytelling. It could have been what the MCU became a decade earlier. But they squandered what they had. The only reasons Deadpool and Logan were made is because it was late in the cycle and they had screwed up so badly that they were just open enough to both.
@@johnathonhaney8291 right! And let alone doing Deadpool 2 and Logan if the first Deadpool had tanked! They could have made the prequels a 2 parter so that Mystic left Xavier little by little and they could have stretched the Apocalypse saga for a long while giving each X men a role in the fight. But no, they threw everything at the wall recasting every 2 films hoping something stuck! And hardly any film didn't revolved around either Magneto or Charles. They never took a different road or tried to make anything in other genre and they were constantly changing every time something failed. Remeber Origins? They were supposed to be several films but they gave up immediately.
@@laurocoman I think I am possibly the only person on the planet who actually liked Wolverine Origins actually. Yes, it was messy and as overstuffed with side characters as the mainline X-Men films. But it gets better to watch every time I give it a look. And yes, I DO recall Magneto was supposed to get his own Origins movie that was scrapped after Wolverine Origins crashed and burned. The biggest mistake was likely mindset. They thought of the X-Men franchise like individual films instead of TV episodes like MCU does.
@@johnathonhaney8291 right, I heard that about Magneto. I also liked a few films everyone hates, like Iron Man 3 and I don't mind to watch Batman v Superman, it's not that bad because of the visuals... that Martha thing though XD
Bro. You're videos are great and I love them but I'm hones just SOOO impressed by your transitions. Especially the ones into your ads. I hate sponsors in videos, but yours, I watch everytime
Man, I really like some of Vox’s other educational videos, they’re really well done, but that marvel video was trash. I hope they learn their lesson and get back to making great content
They're really well ~edited~, but often woefully incorrect. They're a lot like John Oliver - they use appealing content to push half-truths and faulty narratives.
The moment he said nobody would be against a Star Wars/Marvel crossover I knew what was the real point he was trying to make. He thinks so little of fans of these types of stories that he imagines we’re perfectly fine with literally anything as long as it has our favorite characters in it. We’re all just mindless superhero fans blablabla. That’s it, “I don’t get why people like Captain America” with fancy editing.
Also in Pulp Fiction, Mia tells the story of a pilot she was in called Fox Force Five where she played a character called Black Mamba. That was the foundation of Kill Bill 1 & 2. So they were connected in a way.
I also disagree with your assessment that Vox got it right in saying that the Netflix shows only pay lip service to the larger events of the MCU. Jessica Jones was discriminated against and shot by a crazed couple because they blamed her for the death of a loved one during the Incident. Luke Cage was also shot, twice, by bullets made from Chi'tauri bullets, possibly sold by Toomes' crew themselves. And lest we forget, the population generally fears these characters (Luke Cage being an exception, for very good reasons) because of The Incident; the writers just prefer to work this into the general flow of the narrative rather than address it in one or two scenes - they have 13 hours of storytelling to integrate it into, after all, rather than having to cram it into a 90-150 minute film. The whole point of the shows was to represent the "heroes" who aren't rich and resourceful and fly around the world on high-rise adventures all the time. They're just trying to live their lives and blend in as everyday street-level folk do. The fact that the people around them act as if life is still going on as usual is completely believable; it's human nature to be afraid of that which we don't understand, and our coping mechanism is to often turn a blind eye to it altogether. And yet Vox tries to make it out as if _Jessica Jones_ (the show) was an excuse for Marvel to sell Captain America action figures. We see that action figure for less than 10 seconds, for crying out loud. Each episode is an hour long, with 13 episodes per season. If anything, I'd say the Netflix shows have an appropriate quantity of references to the larger narrative. Anything more would be distracting, and had they done it, doubtlessly Vox would have complained that they tried too hard to tie the movies and the shows together. Sorry, but I'm not giving this criticism any merit. The shows, low-budget as they may be, have the freedom to excel where the movies are often constrained. They provide a type of humanity and familiarity to the MCU that's almost reassuring, a comfortable level of individual relatability that's different from the flashier Avengers, who provide relatability on a broader, more universal scale.
To add to that point, entire seasons of Agents of Shield revolve around Hydra, the collapse of Shield, and the Sokovia Accords. There's minorish cameos by Sif and Fury, and sure, some of the stuff they say is lip service because they can't get the actual Avengers in the movies, but a lot of what happens in Agents of Shield is directly impacted and integrated into the series. We get the footman's view of Shield and of how people view different people with super powers. I know Agents of Shield isn't Netflix, but I think the point sort of stands that Marvel's TV shows do their best with the limited resources that they have to integrate the universe.
they been skating along fine so far ,but the events of infinity war will need to be addressed on the tv shows sooner or later or it will look silly so I am not sure what they going to do, I really like the TV shows and I dont want them in an "alternate universe"to the main MCU
To Jared's point: Honestly, Agents of SHIELD has only been riding the MCU's fame for the first season, really. Mentioning the Avengers and the Marvel movies' events every time. After the first season, however, while the show still mentioned MCU events as they happened, it pretty much became a show on its own that didn't rely on the movies' fame anymore.
Look I love Agents of Shield and Daredevil and I was really excited to think about all these other characters existing in the same universe at a more "street level" but let's be real, it's clear by now that aside from a few references and a cameo by Maria Hill, Nick Fury or Lady Sif (all of which were on AoS btw) the TV series clearly are their own universe and none of those characters are EVER gonna turn up in a movie or vice versa. I got the impression from their answers to questions by fans and interviewers that the relationship between Kevin Feige (MCU Head) and Jeph Loeb (TV Series Head) seems frosty at best. Feige clearly doesn't trust Loeb to even extend his vision of the MCU so despite the numerous references, the Netflix universe is clearly a separate entity. AoS may be impacted by movie events like the Hydra reveal and the Ultron helicarrier connection but it will never EVER work the other way around even if they had some large world impacting storyline. I mean, there were multiple new inhumans popping up globally at one point in that show, not one of them caught the attention of the Avengers?
I see what you mean with your main point that crossovers are inartistic and overused but... a good crossover can be more artistic than the separate movies would you prefer it if Iron man, Hulk, Thor, Captain america and Spiderman existed in different universes? I would be devastated to see such potential as the avengers be ignored for the plot of each individual character. I understand that a character needs to evolve and develop but It's also important to see that development as a group. If Black panther and Antman did a cross over, I wouldn't be that thrilled, Its similar to as Starvengers crossover but to have a Captain America and Iron Man crossover is brilliant as they both have opposing views that exist in the same universe that DIRECTLY relate to the people their trying to protect. Should they be free to do what they want or should they be licenced by the government. Like Captain Midnight said the whole of Spiderman Homecoming's set up for the Vulture is a spectacular example of this. Damage control is a great comic series and I'd like to see more of it. Dc fails at this from going from a divided city on whether Super Man is good or bad to "EVERYONE misses Superman. Why is he dead." The Superman vs Batman movie had potential but misused it by making the characters connected by plot and not by their beliefs and ideology. If Thor just popped into a Spiderman film or comic and said. I was there when your father died and didn't save him dispite being a doctor would be a prime example of DC's mistakes. You can't throw different properties together without a level of connection or contrast that works well with each other. Again this relates to the tone and themes of properties but that's enough from me. Anyways good video and I'd love to see more like it.
Manx Marvel what’s funny is I wouldn’t even calling Thor: Ragnorak a “crossover”. Hulk and Bruce were an established character in that universe who no one would be surprised to see standing next to Thor. Them together is just part of the universe, they are two characters who know each other completely. How is that a crossover?
Andrew Wadsworth I’m haven’t watched a lot of Vox’s stuff, but the videos I have watched by them are pretty cohesive and bring up great points. How someone thought this video was a good idea just baffles me. Take away the fancy editing and you just get a crappy video essay that goes absolutely nowhere in the point its trying to convey.
One thing the MCU can improve is do more small crossovers in films, like Thor and Hulk in Ragnarok or Iron Man in Homecoming. I’d love to see a team-up with Bucky Barnes and Hawkeye, Daredevil and Spider-Man, etc.
The Netflix shows aren't exactly in the MCU, it's kind of a one way door. Stuff form the movies effects the shows, but not vice versa. Even agents of shield (the most closely connected to the MCU) still hasn't had any crossovers with the MCU.
Regarding Spiderman Homecoming, you didn't even mention the fact that freaking Iron Man is actually in the dang movie with a role in the plot - a minor one, but still a role.
Zack Snyder? I don't hate him, I just think he's a terrible storyteller. He's great as a director if only for spectacle, but he'll readily abandon substance and character to accomplish that goal. He did well with Watchmen, but I feel that's only because the material was already written as a whole and so ingrained with fandom that all he had to do was adapt it to film and he knew he was limited in manipulating the story threads. So the substance was there, he just added the spectacle. The same with the Dawn of the Dead remake (which I liked) ... he took liberties, but the core of the story was already there. When it comes to putting a cohesive story together on his own, he can't do it ... if a script is not something grounded in years of pop culture history and fanfare, he gets wildly stupid ideas that are severely detached from the subject matter and runs with them to the detriment of whatever project he's running. BvS was a testament to that inability ... the story was an amalgam of several plot threads that did not work together, a hodgepodge of legendary storyline fragments that he and Goyer smashed together because they wanted a string of "cool moments" that were familiar to fans instead of a solid plot. He may still have a place, but I really don't think it's in the director's chair ... and definitely not at the writer's table.
I don't think you can speak, knowledgeably, on the opinions of other directors, especially when you consider a) the broad majority of them haven't commented publicly on his work, and b) any praise he's gotten from other directors could merely be a default professional courtesy. You can like or dislike any movie you want, no one can fault you for opinion (or knowledgeably speak on behalf of your opinion, as I stated above). I really wanted to like BvS, but I knew I wouldn't when I saw the second trailer because it was obvious that Snyder had, in fact, stitched random stories together. This isn't an isolated incident. There have been several interviews with people who have worked with him stating that Snyder has a bad habit of sacrificing story beats for "cool shot" ideas he has in the moment and cramming them into a movie whether it fits or not. I can tell you as a writer, that its a horrible way to compose a story ... it can't be that much different to infer that it's a bad practice for filmmaking as well. If that's his MO, then it's pretty safe to say that he probably shouldn't be in a director's--or even a writer's--chair.
Seeing this thumbnail suggestion saved me from ranting in the vox comments section... appreciate your calm talk down lol that arguement was such a reach wow
Seems like vox almost doesn't believe what they're saying in their video, i don't think it's too much of a stretch for that video to have been created out of a need to be contrarian, because it's almost a weird form of click-bait, "you know this thing that's real popular? I disagree with a popular opinion about it, click here to see why." I feel like I see a lot of those videos floating around, "why ___ is not as good as you think." Not saying that video(s) are click-bait, but it does seem like a common trend in the video essay side of TH-cam to be contrarian, and that might be a little exploited by some, maybe vox. I wouldn't blame them too much if this is true, TH-cam money I hear is about as hard to find as a real $3 bill
I think your correct. This reminds me of "moral crusaders" who take cheap pot shots at video games and rap music to remind the public they still exist.
People are liking this video not just because you support MCU but also because you are actually saying something that makes sense.. wrote a similar but opposite comment on Vox's video.
@@radrno7 Nah, just being truthful. I can't claim to be objective so I don't bother trying to. That said, the mental gymnastics employed by Vox on this (and this is far from the first time I've seen them make such a torturous argument) does little to make their case. Denny O'Neill's statement on how such types only give such pop culture phenomena its due after they've been safely fossilized comes to mind.
I'm so glad I wasn't the only one with these thoughts on the Vox video - and I love how well thought out your criticism is, without being petty or hateful. Glad I stumbled across your channel!
I saw their video before you made your response. It was pathetic. Barely any of their arguments were aimed at the MCU, and the few that were, were very lacking. And then to claim that Fox's X-men universe is done better, when it's literally only one set of characters from one property? That really blew it. They knew they were trolling for clicks, and they got them.
Thank you for taking the time to set vox straight... you were very fair, you could have been more condescending and no one would have blamed you for it.
I just don't get what point Vox was trying to make. At one point in their video, it seemed like it was "we need more reasons to crossover to make the universe feel whole and connected", but then it was "crossovers are bad because of attempting to mix the tones of two different characters". I just don't get what they were going for at all, especially with the whole snow globe comparison and everything. They're video had some decent arguments, but I just don't know where they were going with any of them, and some even contradicted each other from my understanding. Either way, this was a great response video! Good job, Captain Midnight!
My thoughts exactly, OP. I see a lot of people thanking Captain Midnight because, like you and me, they watched the Vox video grasping in vain at a main idea and finding nothing consistent, and CM managed to clarify what was being attempted... and that it was not successful.
EH Miguel no they dont. Captain Marvel just had one of the worst marvel movie trailers ever yet is still going to get a billion dollars because its Marvel
I don't see how artistic compromise affected Marvel at all. I don't understand what people want from these films. The Marvel universe as a whole is fantastic. Please correct me if I wrong. What do people really WANT from Marvel. This is a huge head scratcher for me.
NoExit NoProblem all of you missed Vox’s point it that Marvel has plot continuity but not thematic. Like for example the xmen universe in every single franchise there’s the struggle for being accepted, but in the much you can have anything from government overarching to friends backstabbing you, it doesn’t have a feel.
I am confused because I thought themes SHOULD be different in films and not the same copy and paste thematic idea. That would just get bland and boring after awhile.
@@noexitnoproblem6037 I mean marvel have similar themes like redemption or family in every single movie; however, they subvert redemption or family themes or have a side theme like Colonialism in Black Panther. The artistic comprise thing that Vox was a good claim, but they didn't back it up. To be honest MCU films look the same with Cinemaphotography, editing, shot composition, etc. Marvel wouldn't allow somebody like Nolan or Denis Villeneuve to be 100% control of their films because Nolan or Villeneuve want to make their own movies rather than trying set up sequels.
Because all marvel films are the exact same just with different premises, they make films for people that don't really like films that much. Boring cringy dialogue, similar boring plots and boring subplots that aren't set out well enough to make you care about them. MCU films got bland and boring after like 2 or 3 of them, infinity war was better but that's because it had been in preparation for years.
![HIWWHEE | OHM [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/OJJLtTLqLag/mqdefault.jpg)
Go to squarespace.com/captainmidnight and use code "captainmidnight" to get 10% off a website or domain.
Do you think Vox was right about the MCU? Here's the link to their video! th-cam.com/video/t2qZ2_tp-jY/w-d-xo.html&t=
They were just trying to be cool.
& failed.
captainmidnight not really
You didn’t link Vox’s video
You forgot the vox video link my dude
Thank you SO MUCH for calling them out on the Spider-Man thing. Like, of all the MCU movies, I feel like homecoming is the closest thing to a true sequel to the original avengers (besides other avengers movies). It basically took the ideas going on the Netflix shows about the human aspect of the battle of New York and turn it into a movie. Also, I know vox is a huge company with dozens of writers but it’s clearly clickbait when they release a video complaining about the MCU, yet 90% of their marvel reviews on their website are glowing
I laughed when Vox said that the MCU had only easter eggs in Homecoming considering Tony Stark played an important part in it.
And the villain's connection to the avengers events
@@cherkaouia5541 Agreed, it felt like a semi-sequel to Avengers 1.
@@AB-zl4nh they did some sort of aftermath and origin story at the same time
And Cap made a cameo in an "educational film" which connects with Spidey and Cap discovering that each of them were NY boys.
This is a well made constructive criticism video without any hate towards a channel.
We need more youtubers like
CAPTAAAAAAAAAIN MIDNIGHT
Indeed. A rare breed.
Exactly, and it's more CAPTAINNNNNNNNN MIDNIGHT!
True vox would just bash all their different opinions
I heard that in the Captain Caveman voice
There's nothing wrong with calling out stupid when you see it. What Vox put forth is dumb. What Captain Midnight did is okay, but he would have done just as well to throw Vox under the bus.
Forgets that Phineas and Ferb have crossed over with Marvel and Star Wars.
DIdn't Duck Dodgers cross-over with the Green Lantern Corps. ?
Wait. Wait. Wait. There's an entire Scooby Doo cartoon from the 1970s chock full of insanse cross-overs!
@@TigrMchine the scooby doo crossover episode with batman and robin and the addams family felt like a fever dream when watching it :)
@@TigrMchine Well the point where it all *really* spirals out of control is Santa Claus. Dude gets around.
@@waterking74
How about when Scooby-Doo had a crossover with Supernatural?
Fancy editing doesn't cover up terrible writing. Good work CM!
Omg u r the engineer guy from Ireland
Big fan of ur videos
👍
And yes what u said is absolutely right 😀
Watched every one of your videos. Love your content.
Same here
Sounds like a description of mcu movies🤔
But you have both though
"Sir, the MCU is threatened by a well-made but flawed video essay by a popular channel!"
"Make the call..."
[gasp] "You don't mean...?"
"Yes, this is a job for Captain Midnight!"
lol
A popular channel with as many flaws as the MCU, if not more.
@@superior2096 Vox for sure has as many flaws as the MCU, probably more. And their parent company (BuzzFeed) definitely has as many flaws as the DCEU.
Oof, I think “well-made” is a little kind. :P
😂😂😂
I definitely think the worst part of vox's video was comparing the work of Stan Lee, Jack Kerby and Steve Ditko to a ham fisted sitcom cross over from the 70's. I mean a planned out comic book universe filled with interesting and dynamic characters is not the same as a cheap cash grab.
And they never said that they are the same, the vox video only refers to the idea of a common universe between properties
MrRockBlogs It’s implied if they’re comparing it
Marvel is super cash grab like Thanos existed become marvel wanted there own DC , jack kirby style darkseid. Vox is saying the corporate hand could fuck mcu up for money the way a bad sitcom crossovers were only done for profit
Jim Henson's crossovers feel more like universes then those, for crying out loud! And those were mostly just him and his crew paying tribute to the projects he's done over the years! But, seriously, Muppet Family Christmas was awesome!
@@FOFORO28 Your just waiting for 1000 Angry Nerds replying to you, you're free to think that though.
great stuff, completely agree
Kento Bento holy kento bento huge fan
Kento Bento, I agree. Also love your channel!
Kento Bento this is the best comment crossover right here
Eyyyyyy I love your channel too!!
omg kento bento
what is this a cross over episode?
Ps: love ur channel
Ironic. Vox could save others from emptiness, but not themselves.
r/unexpectedprequelmemes
@Not Todd Howard not from a Jedi...
in my country, vox is a party of the extreme right
Lol this. “The MCU feels empty”, continues to make an empty video about how the MCU is empty that never actually shows how the MCU is empty.
Here we can see a rare SW preaquel meme in its unnatural habbitat...
Vox...to feel so desperately that you’re right...but to fail, nonetheless
Fun isn't something one considers when balancing the like ratio, but this... does put a smile on my face.
666 likes lol
Failure is inevitable
Vox: I have AN ARMY
Captain Midnight: We have a Hulk.
Hahahaha
Traveling Boi Vox: I have an ARMY!
Marvel: and we have the fans
Vox: I have AN ARMY
Marvel: What's that? We can't hear you under all this money!
Vox: We have a Thanos.
Captain Midnight: We have a Captain Marvel.
Their army isn't backing up this time.
The MCU isn’t a bunch of crossovers, it’s a universe that takes its time to tell the story of every individual in that crossover. Justice League felt like a crossover; Avengers felt like it was meant to happen.
YES! THIS ^
How come this comment has very little likes?
Yaseen, I really agree!
Especially when the only characters that have been given any kind of development were Superman and Wonder Woman. Batman, Aquaman, and Flash might as well have been pulled out of thin air. It was completely backwards on WBs part to have solo films AFTER the team up film, not to mention they are missing key members like Green Lantern and Martian Manhunter. Maybe they hate the color green?
hey, very nice choice of words man
Vox: "The MCU feels empty."
Endgame: "On your left."
*Edit:* Honestly, I was completely missing the point when I made this comment.
Jack Kemp “don’t say it, don’t say it”.
@@DerpaTure9503 that was literally the entire point of endgame but, whatever.
@@DerpaTure9503 Ah yes, the movie that literally changed the entire universe with a time-jump and major repercussions, dozens of character arcs moving forward, left the universe defenseless without Infinity Stones and explored the depth of loss was "empty". Next you're gonna tell us how fanservice is bad and that time-travel is the worst thing in fiction lol
@Subscribe To Me For Good Luck You literally have not pointed out where, so you are literally dismissed. Literally.
@Subscribe To Me For Good Luck Endgame is not in the top 10 best movies of all time but it still is in the top 250.
Those Captain American cartoon clips give me life.
"I launch my own rocket!" **explodes**
I had to go back and watch it twice 🤣
Oh hey Chanray
Sean Self
Yo
@@HailG3 but you got me on the right position beats it really hard😂😂
Thank-you very much for this my good sir. That Vox video was a total mess.
It's vox. Everything from them is a mess.
Only if you're an absolute moron could you possibly think the Vox video was a mess.
Dat edit doe
They were deliberately being disingenuous
@@Heard2 And deliberately baiting.
The Vox Video just reeks of "It's popular therefore it must be bad" syndrome. Like they had their conclusion before they started working on it.
Yep.
@ra al You might want to check the date of the comment and when the video was released. The MCU has destroyed itself trying to replicate what it did so well in the lead up to infinity war.
@ra al Big news story coming in today. Turns out executing something well makes it good, executing it horribly makes it bad.
And don't think I didn't notice you spamming the same comment in every comment thread desperate for validation.
How to get attention on TH-cam in 2018- Complain about the MCU
Works every time
Wilo Polis And Star Wars
True, but the MCU seems to be more common for some reason
Wilo Polis I understand in an environment flooded with video essays people will try to stand out with 2edgy Marvel sux videos, but still, they’re cringe as hell.
@@cvoghel Yeah, and I get that it's hard to stay relevant and all, but to me it just seems like a more lazy way to retain popularity
Wilo Polis Agreed. What sucks even more is people seemingly eat this shit up. I mean the views speak for themselves. I also always wonder who falls for the clickbait thumbnails. I don’t know, the whole thing bugs me to no end.
Your video matched my thoughts, but further expanded upon. It was a bloated explanation of crossovers, with glossy editing that didn't explain their point clearly (there is a kernel of an idea to work with), and of course the biggest sin committed was wasting 10 minutes of my time. No wonder when I first watched the video it had up to 80 to 90% dislikes, it didn't just insult the MCU, it insulted the fans, and an entire medium.
an*
Yeah, that video is more of a criticism of shallow crossovers than well constructed fictional universes. MCU is a beautiful place. The box-office numbers, critical acclaim, fan engagement, franchise endurance, and many more things are a testament to that. The level of care that Kevin Feige and co. have taken in constructing it has shown why none of its pale imitators have had the widespread success or appeal that MCU has garnered across all demographics. It might eventually feel the weight of its expansiveness eventually down the road in the future but right now following the massive success of Infinity War, MCU is in the peak of its powers. Avengers 4 is probably the most anticipated movie in film history.
@@TheRishijoesanu as someone who loves art films and often wait for anything by martin scorsese, quentin tarantino, lynne ramsay, sofia coppola, lars von trier, and any art-house filmmaker. i love the mcu. to me, they're no different from what the art house filmmakers do. they're just telling stories that are fun with cool characters and high stakes. vox's video is just shallow and snobby. the fact that the mcu got ryan coogler, anna boden and ryan fleck, taika waititi, and james gunn to provide ideas for the mcu that have their own ideas but with ideas that is expected from these films are just awesome. plus, give kevin feige credit for not just overseeing everything and get whoever he can get for those films but also pay respect to the source material as he is what harry saltzman and cubby broccoli are when they oversaw the james bond franchise and it's still going well thanks to broccoli's daughter and stepson. as long as we have people who give a shit about movies and make sure audiences get more bang for their buck. things will be fine.
I agree
ya there edit wuz gud but there wasnt any content
It kind of seems like Vox is accusing basically everyone at Marvel, well, ever of being artistically bankrupt, which is honestly pretty insulting.
They are tho
@@joseconcha4848 no theyre not
Because they are
Nowl
Yanes
They are not
Well this comment aged like rotten milk lol
I was just as baffled by some of the sillier points the Vox video attempted to make. Thank you for this analytical and much needed response
"It feels empty"
Okay, but why?
"It just feeeeels empty"
- Cux
I can explain. I honestly thought he was gonna say what I was thinking but he just tried to ramble
Vox: Why Mcu feels empty
Stanlee i: Oh Don't make me come down there Punk!
The Batman(the person I am replying to) MCU and comics MCU, are totally different except for the characters I am sure Stan Lee in his heart would agree with Vox
Rajat Makwana woooosh
Mrenderkid Comics dude I was referring to him as Batman forgot to add a comma
Rajat Makwana that means the joke flew over your head he was quoting stan lee in homecoming
Mrenderkid Comics I really don't watch the movies, I have only read the comics, so I didn't know the joke in the first place
Thank you for explaining it! Man the Vox video made my head hurt and I had no idea where to start. You flushed my ideas out nicely and coherently. Oh, and it sucks that Vox made such an error of a video because their videos are usually astonishingly good - and especially their editing!
Everything about it was just wrong...starting with the guy who brought forward the argument. There was something about the way he talked which made it really, really hard to listen to. But the worst part was really the line of argumentation. It is just deeply dishonest to act as if the MCU movies are only connected by vague references while also citing two MCU movies which even had guest appearances by other characters in the story, and then turn around and act as if the X-men of all franchises did a better job of telling an overreaching narrative.
@@swanpride he sounded very cocky for some reason, very positive he was right
Vox is GARBAGE.
I understood the vox vid just fine
I dientes like the Marvel video neither, but meh no big problem. A really big problem I have with Vox (and maaaany other amazing educational/informational channels) is that they get into the political situation of other countries and just see the situation as if it was in the US. They don't really understand the mentality of the people in the other country, the context, culture and history.
Not to mention stars wars actually exists as a product in the mcu. Peter Parker love star wars.
but he hates it in the comics
too fucking bad
And Steve had Star Wars on his list of stuff to catch up on at the beginning of Winter Soldier.
There's a very bothering plothole in homecoming. Peter has the Lego death star set. That's like $500. He can afford a $500 Lego set but has to dumpster dive and build himself a shit spec'd computer? :P
Andrew Teller that wasn’t peters that was Ned’s
This is great! I really wish I had your comic knowledge.
oh hey it you
Jay hi
@Jay Exci
What are you talking about, your response to the same video was well put together and well argued despite your lack of Captain Midnight's knowledge in comics...
DemonicRemption he literally never said it wasn’t lmfaooo you’re dumb as hell 😂😂😂
Matthew Crane your reply shows you are
Half to be exact because of Thanos.
Spider Man LOL true! :)
Oh, snap.
Or is it half full?
omg ur alive
Noah Ridenour haha snap
Vox is the reason why Thanos snapped
LOL
Liberty Prime 😂me to
Money Singh on the contrary, i believe Vox isn’t in the MCU. If it was, the universe would be empty enough for Thanos
‘Snapped’ heh heh
That whole thing felt like peak hipster contrarianism
Nailed it.
So many I know, young and old, who don't like the MCU just make it out to be drivel or childish, without ever giving it a chance.
Sure it's not for everybody, but dismissing something you don't see the appeal of is just shallow.
@@perotekku I wish more people could share this mindset. More and more people are getting completely dismissive of things that they dont like or understand. Its frustrating.
@@NickPotatoes I know it,s been 3 years since your comment.... but damn, number of people who think hating on popular thing makes them cool is way too high. " But but comics ...are for kids" or "this just all comedy" or " guys in colorful pants are cringe". Just move along and stop pretending you are something special.
So, a thing I find kind of interesting about their argument that you didn't mention (and probably others in these 2000 comments already have, but just in case): Mork and Mindy didn't "crossover" with Happy Days. Mork from Ork was a character who appeared in Happy Days and was so popular, he got his own show. It's not a crossover, it's a spinoff.
On the Stick THANK YOU! that was bugging me too.
It's like Vox doesn't know what a backdoor pilot is.
I didn't say any of that, but I'd hate to strain you by expecting you to actually read what I did say or approach anything with some semblance of nuance, but keep stumping for Vox, I guess? I'm sure they appreciate it.
This illustrates Vox's vague research.
Just goes to show that Vox thought of the idea before formulating any sort of sense or foundation to back it up with. They don't really make a single good point that links back to their original question.
Vox is kinda sounds like a salty guy at fox entertainment.
That acts like he knows everything but he's more likely to be a part of the problem than the reason a movie might be an success.
Nah, they are mostly interested in actually explaining stuff. The problem here is that the question they were tying to explain was "Why do some people feel tired of the MCU", which is already a loaded and biased perspective. It's just a moment of overreach and weak arguing.
in my country, vox is a party of the extreme right
20th Century Vox
I believe Vox is owned by Comcast. The same Comcast that's still salty about being out bid by Disney for those Fox properties.
Vox lost me when he tried to use the Tarintinoverse as an example of....not being a connected universe.
Most fans consider the tarintino movies to all be connected and Tarinto himself has never denied it either.
@laz kar I Know, my phone is really retarded sometimes
GOD! ITS TARANTINO! TARANTINO! WHY DOES THIS MAKE ME SO IRRATIONALLY MAD.
Tarantino said himself that his movies are connected, but not all of them are real.
Bram Steenhoek GOD, you meant to say “it’s” not “its” as “it’s” means it is
@@mario199923 dude. I know the feeling. When that happens to me, I proofread my text to be sure it ready. That being said, I WISH his name was Tarinto! Sounds like a more interesting name!
It's like Vox doesnt understand that the MCU is based of Marvel Universe from the comics. Dude like Spiderman, Daredevil, Kingpin, FF, and the OG Avengers all lived in NYC. But if they put that in a live action film, Vox would be like "Why are all these characters in New York? Seems forced!"
Honestly my main problem with this video was its structure. It took him a solid 5 -6 minutes to even kinda start talking about what the video was about, and by then the video was mostly over
*Vox's video not midnight''s
.............?
How about you structure your sentence in away where you dont have to edit in what its about.
VonHaigen Chill dude.
Nitro Mouthpiece I think they’re just confused that you decided to correct them on their personal problem with the video. You’re not even adding much to their point
One of the things I love about the Marvel Universe is that it feels so much like our world but with superheroes and mythology actually real. It feels like I can go to New York and see Iron Man and Captain Marvel flying through the air. Captain America outside the UN building, Spider-Man swinging around and Daredevil listening from hid perch atop a building. It feels real to me.
Inversely, it's probably why DC doesn't draw me as much as Marvel does. DC just doesn't have that feeling. I don't feel like I can find the Thermyscaria embassy in DC or take that one exit while in Delaware and get to Gotham. The locations in DC are a little too fantastically for me to feel like I can go find them. Where Marvel feels more firmly rooted in our reality.
100 percent
@@chargedonpc9989 wow, I respect that,
BUT in my opinion, Dc feels more realistic because of the characters of how they were written and surprisingly, their world building feels art imitating life because the truth is, the real world is NOT A GOOD PLACE, HOPELESS HOME, EMPTY (Mentally) LOCATIONS AND HEAVILY FLAWED PEOPLE instead of perfect mary sues .
example: Watchmen, man of steel, V for vendetta, Batman begins, a history of violence, BVS DOJ ULTIMATE EDITION,
Superman the movie 1 donner cut, superman 2 donner cut, Batman Forever, Return Of The Swamp Thing,
GREEN LANTERN ULTIMATE EXTENDED CUT, THE ROAD TO PERDITION, THE DARK KNIGHT RISES, Shazam, the dark knight, wonder woman , aquaman, birds of prey, suicide squad, Batman Returns, Superman Returns, Batman 1989,
Jonah Hex, Swamp Thing, The Losers, The Kitchen and lastly, Joker.
in my opinion, these feel relatable to me And they age better better than I remember since I USED TO HATE DC movies, BUT
NOT anymore MOSTLY.
@@constantinezoelayman3132 that’s also a good argument because marvel does make the heroes seem a little too powerful sometimes where as seems to be more open to making there characters have weakness like kryptonite
Growing up I just assumed all of Marvel was connected and all of DC was connected
That's just how it anachronistically seems looking back, but nope ;)
Very true. It has been that way for so long we forgot it wasn't always that way : )
For DC that's called Hypertime
I didn’t but I see where you are coming from haha
Haha me too lol
*THANK YOU*
"I think they really almost have a good point, here."
More praise than Vox has ever deserved
The MCU never feels empty. It feels like a whole universe where everything is connected.
disconnected
U know people hate perfect things like shared universes
After seeing infinity war on release night made real life feeling empty
Nerdomania He didn't mention the DCEU though? :thinking:
not really
That Vox video literally said absolutely nothing
Rory Lennon the majority of their videos say nothing.
U can say it was....EMPTY
Rory Lennon it said enough for people to respond
"Would anyone be surprised if [insert uneducated absurdity] happened in the MCU?" The Video
I'm glad I found this video. The Vox one made me so confused I was wondering if I missed the point they were making, or if the video itself was all over the place.
The point I actually came away with on that video is that "cinematic universes are bad because we say so"
I would definitely say that while marvel doesn’t produce as drastically different tonal films as fox, they definitely aren’t afraid to change things up. If you put winter soldier on and then ragnarok, you wouldn’t even say that they are in the same genre unless you knew about marvel, yet put on infinity war and both characters feel at home together. I love vox, but they definitely missed the mark here
Yes, I feel this is a great point that is totally missed by critics of the MCU.
True! In 2014 the MCU released both Winter Soldier and Guardians of the Galaxy!
Mentocthemindtaker
Pff “critics” nowadays are just a mass of teens that will give good grades to anything they like, there are exceptions, but most will just say “it’s a movie for kids, you’re not supposed to think, just to have fun”
@@radrno7
Ahem Venom would like to speak with you
Or how they kind of flipped the script with the Thor Ragnarok movie.
I mean they essentially made a buddy cop film with Thor and Hulk.
Vox did what every X-Men film fanboy does: hypocritically criticize the MCU for doing the things that the X-Men Films are guilty of doing.
And for doing a whole host of things the X-Men films only wish they could do.
You mention "outside the boundaries of reality around every corner" and that's why the MCU is so great. The MCU establishes itself on a simple governing premise: Take our universe, there are six stones representing fundamental aspects of existence. This universe is controlled by the same physics ours is. Magic, such as Thor's lightning, is simply incredibly advanced technology. These stones, existing since the beginning of the universe, allow control over that aspect. But the only way to break physical laws in the MCU is to use an infinity stone or a combination of infinity stones. So now we have a universe where legitimately crazy shit happens all the time. Aliens confirmed. Oh yeah we fought em, somehow won. Africa had a secret country, and they are like Halo level tech. We out in space representing humanity. And I'm not talking on some dinky asteroid freighter. Nah we got wormholes and cloaking and lasers and shit. But all of it, is believable. Though sometimes far fetched, every character's powers in the MCU has a backing in science. Just watch Because Science explain how Thor's hammer is actually manipulating gravitons so he can fly. Can we manipulate gravitons like that? Who knows? Hell, we don't even know if gravitons exist yet, they're only hypothetical. But they are a legitimate point of study in current science. Essentially, the MCU is amazing because it takes the unbelievable, gives it a believable reason to exist in the world, and makes you wonder what crazy shit might be going on in your world. Maybe, just maybe, somewhere far off in the inky black of our own sky, a raccoon and a sentient tree are helping an angel pirate make a badass axe out of a neutron star with the help of Tyrion Lannister.
I usually like Vox, but this video felt rushed and poorly written just because they wanted a click bait title
I like them about 80% of the time. Their videos while imaginative sometimes are beautifully edited though.
I been unsubbed frombox, very biased smh
Feel the exact same way about Vox.
They something stray into making the "cutting edge opinion" videos that are different, just to stick out. Sometimes it works, giving a new perspective, but most of the time it looks like click bait due to how idiotic they have to make their arguments in order to justify shitting on something that everyone agrees is rated well.
This VOX guy is completely biased. That's it. He simply doesn't like shared universes and tries to build an argument based on bad examples which barely relates to what Marvel Studios has been done since their first movie. He doesn't understand that the Marvel universe was built as a completely cohesive and integrated universe since it's beginning. All it's heroes are supposed to live in the same world. They are NOT forcing crossovers. Thats how the comics universe are and he doesn't understand it.
I have to agree (with OP, lol). His criticism started with Marvel Comics, not the MCU. It was the kind of complaint that is usual best answered by asking why the complainer even consumes the media if they hate it so much.
I guess midnight hates crossovers too and doesnt understand the marvel universe either, because he mostly agrees with the main points of the vox video.
EXACTLY.
@@argh523 No, he's in love with their editing.
Bee Whistler
Hating? At what point did Vox even say they didn’t like MCU films? They were criticizing it, which apparently is considered a sin by MCU fanboys because they can’t take the argument the MCU is not as good as they think it is, and it’s even worse, because the movies barely get criticized, as if critics just give them whatever rating to have some credibility or just flat out think that these movies don’t have to be good in order to be considered as such.
This was very well written and refreshing! I've had a lot of complaints about the MCU over the years, but certainly not the ones stated in Vox's video. I really have to give props to them for keeping up something that seems so difficult to maintain. Imagine having to make movies about individual heroes, with individual tones, also while weaving plot elements together in order for a crossover movie to take place. It's extremely difficult, but at the end of the day I'm only impressed that they tried something new at a time where everyone else is doing the same thing with movies. What I really have complaints about is that because of the MCU, now everyone else wants to make a cinematic universe, and, more often than not, it doesn't turn out as well thought out.
Also, am I the only one who loves the corny transitions? XD
the vox video was basically "I dont understand how comics work"
One thing about the Ant-Man "Call the Avengers" scene that neither the Vox video nor your video touched on is that it also comes from a very character-driven place. Scott is overwhelmed by everything that's happening and everything he's hearing about for the first time, and he's not confident that he's up to the task. He thinks it's too big for him, pun intended. Yes, suggesting that Hank call the Avengers is certainly to address the obvious question fans would be asking in their own heads, but it's also a very human thing for Scott or anyone in his position to do and makes perfect logical sense from his character at that point in his journey.
he sort of touched on that saying that's what a normal person would do as they are the main hero group but I believe that it's one of the more forced reasons to add in the continuity of the avengers. It's also a way to build up the pairing though because in the comics Hank Pym worked with the avengers. It's no Ragnarock but there is still a lot of thought going into these scenes.
At least more than "oi oi the avengers are a thing, lets call them so they can boost our profit"
@@guthrowtaylorjohnson5758 I didn't think it was forced at all seeing as we saw Peggy Carter and Stark in the beginning of the film. And the fact Hank claims his tech could destroy the world, is a fitting logical choice to think of the Avengers for help.
My opinion isn't that they used the mention of the avengers wrong but that they could have found a better reason. Maybe Hank was good friends with Anthony Stark was a personal thing I was looking for in that movie but was a disappointed. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion but that's mine.
I think they had to start doing that because of all the times in previous character-specific movies where I left the theater going "why didn't he call [one of the other Avengers] to help with this?" I really appreciated the realism added by that scene, because if this were a real world with real people, your first thought is going to be to ask the other superheroes for help. You either have to wrap up the other heroes so they're unavailable, give a real reason why they wouldn't be able to help in this situation, or in this case, refuse to ask for help. Simply not mentioning them at all is unrealistic and leaves the audience wondering.
Kiryn Silverwing this is the main reason why I dislike the end of ant man. Surely he being a hero would have heard of the crazy sightings of aliens and purple fortnite skins. You should check out how it should have ended's video on it.
I love how vox talks about how empty the MCU feels while showing clips from the some of the most empty x-men movies.
They didn't say what makes it empty.
Despite claiming up front that the Vox video was not clickbait- it was click bait. The end.
The problem with that video is that it puts a fan theory and a bunch of 1940's afterthought crossovers in the same lane as a well-thought-out string of movies. Like, comparing Tarantino's Red Apple to a Bruce Banner Easter egg is so bafflingly stupid that it draws in knee-jerk reactions from fans who'll gloss over the main problem with that: Bruce Banner is a real breathing character in that universe that has been seen multiple times and has a whole "Jekyll and Hyde" situation going, but it's funny to see that for "normal people", he's just a very smart boring scientist. Even an MCU Easter egg has a myriad of layers. It's not an empty universe and it's not overrated. It's smart and thought-out, unlike Vox's video.
Captain Midnight:“The sitcom and the supernatural mystery makes sense to never meet”
Marvel: Hold My Beer
Marvel: WandaVision bitch boom!
7.8 “Too many good movies.”
- Vox
I understood that reference
Block- Buster Steve? Is that you???
Vox were clearly fishing for clicks. Not sure why so many people watched and why so many TH-camrs are responding. It was a forgettable video.
Mysterious Middle East, yeeeah I didn’t even click on that one or the All the Heroes are Villains one. Those kind of videos tend to be obnoxious instead of interesting
Not even forgettable. It was downright infuriatingly stupid because it simply threw logic and common sense out the window to argue a concept that even a child could understand. To top it all off its also being explained by a smug idiot trying to sound smart
Because it was bad.
Not only did it feel like they were fishing for clicks (which they probably got) but the whole video felt like that irritating hipster that brings up a bunch of little known mostly useless tidbits of information into the essay that make it sound smarter than the argument actually is. I'm glad that CaptainMidnight called that out as a bad comparison. but like I say, I don't think that they made the comparison because it was a good one, I think they made it because not everyone knows about the snowglobe fan theory, and bringing new context to the table makes it seem like "if only you knew as much as I do you would see it the way I do".
I knew the vox video was clickbait when I saw it. I knew I shouldn't have clicked on it, but I honestly wanted to see if they had valid points. through the whole video I disagreed with almost every argument that they made, because as this video stated very well, they made statements in the context that props up their point. and in the end I think they mainly took that position because they knew people like me would want to hear them out.
I think one of the opening statements they made kinda made me realize that they look at the MCU and marvel differently than I do. something about wipe out half of them and there is still too many. I actually really like the vast collaboration of characters in the MCU. To me it shows that we all rely on each other, it gives lots of different types of characters to relate to. Ive always liked team up movies. and I think that these are the things that VOX is missing here.
I didn't watch the Vox vid,but I am watching this...go figure.
Thankyou! Of course it was a great video, and you made some really good points, but I'm just really happy you explain what Vox was saying, because I reeeally didn't understand that video!😁
Ida Kiilerich HAHA exactly! After I watched that Vox video when it first came out, I really did not understand the video one bit. But after watching this CM video I finally get where the Vox video is getting at 😂 The video is so messy
ohh snap - shots fired!
Lol
That video didn't need shots to go down.
HEY. The word snap gives marvel characters ptsd
Yeah too bad Vox chose to battle with a dull butter knife.
Vox is neither aware of this "fight" nor would they care if they were aware of it.
Oh Vox...To feel so desperately right...but fail nonetheless.
Dread it, run from it...
Optillian Destiny still arrives.
Fun isn't something one considers when balancing the superhero movie industry.. but this, put a smile on my face.
Cirno the Ice Fairy In time you will know what it’s like to lose...
2nooby2 Idol underrated comment
Thank you for the calm, measured and poignant response. I'll never get why some people are so damn eager to jump on every passing hate train and trash something (Vox in this case) that they disagree with or is wrong. I would babble on about a nuanced and more thoughtful approach but I get the sense that some just want something to take out their anger on and really don't care. (Mandatory disclaimer: Not all people.. etc. Nothing wrong with disliking the video, I do too)
In any case, I like Vox but I think they kind of dropped the ball on this one. I can see the nugget of a good idea they had, and MCU _could_ be a suitable topic for their Overrated series, but it feels like they didn't really do their homework. Based on the title, I actually expected the Vox video to be about how we haven't really seen how the shared experience of alien invasions, gods and magic has affected people's lives (we've seen some bits and pieces in the movies, but mostly shots of news reports don't make the world seem alive). I don't need any deep dives, but I'd like to see more world-building through minor characters. I think they're heading in that direction, because Homecoming proved how you can focus on smaller things and still get a sense of scale. Their world of superheroes has never seemed more real than in that high school - Cap doing PSAs was funny but made also a surprising amount of sense, and the reaction (or lack thereof) by the teens further established the kind of reality they live in.
Thank You! I hated that video
Same
Same
I already hated Vox
I hate the channel as a whole. They have a few good videos but most are hot garbage.
If you take the X-men as an example how to make it right, you already lost me. He really did that?
Yeah bruh. He did.
Facts 😂😂
I haven’t managed to pick my jaw up off the floor after hearing that either. I mean, seriously??! With a couple of exceptions the X-men movies have been objectively awful adaptations, and the older ones really haven’t aged well. Their success is 90% based on Hugh Jackman’s personal popularity.
I get the feeling this Vox fella is just trolling us all... 🙄
''Correction, I launch my own rocket.''
Captain I knew you & Bucky was doing something strange at night....
If there's one thing I cannot stand it's people saying "The MCU is completely soulless and made only for the money". Because not only is it insulting to the filmmakers who do work hard to make quality products but it also implies that anything that isn't part of the MCU is made purely for artistic merit which is just total bullshit. A lot of movies that you see nominated for a best picture Oscar were not made because the director had some great vision but because some studio exec thought "Man, if I play my cards right I could get that nominated for an Oscar and make tons of money".
The reason people say that about the MCU is because their films are pumped out like a factory line, and that's not art.
th-cam.com/video/pD8ruELfKrs/w-d-xo.html
It's the same shit they're trying to do to Star Wars and it looks shady.
The Laughing Magician just because they’re well planned out and effectively made? They have a clear story in mind. If they take their time and go through production hell, that’s the DCEU. They make these films efficiently and have learned over the years how to manage multiple productions.
Its like they think Marvel make these movies for free. These guys make movies for money for making more and better movies that would be more memorable which also creates income for them and for our side, better entertainment.
You’re the best, man. After seeing Vox’s video (all the way through) I was wondering if you’d make a response! The video didn’t even feel like a true Vox video, but one from a parallel earth.
TheTopHatter yeah it was weird I wouldn’t be surprised if aqua-man showed up
Seriously ... it was lacking any of their usual research & love for a topic. It felt like the dude had only watched the first two avengers movies.
That vid was complete click-bait tier, so I never watched it.
Fact that Vox also made a article about how “Marvel had a built such a impressive universe” and have this video is just confusing.
I mean Elvis owned the rights to "I hate Elvis" t shirts. Play both sides and profit.
You were too polite to that ridiculous video but I appreciate the balanced response
Anger and hostility just makes things worse in an argument. Politeness is a much more effective weapon which Captain Midnight wielded better than Cap's shield.
I destoryed my computer when the vox video sayed x men did a better CU then marvel
Javan Rench 🤣🤣🤣. That was extreme! I just went and saw x-men apocalypse and infinity war one after the other.
Hey Cap
Big fan.
I understood that reference
Lol
I’m Spider-Man
Hey everyone
I remember Jim Shooter , Marvel former Editor in Chief, making the continuity on the Marvel Universe a priority. Is there was a scene of a broken window in one issue of one comic there be another scene of a different title where that window was being repair. A small detail but maintaining the continuity.
THANK YOU! I didn't want to validate his weird video by commenting on it; I wondered if he was just trolling to be honest and still think he may have been (makes for good viewer engagement right?) ANYHOW YOU explained what was wrong with his video so well, and I felt, like I think you described, being disappointed since often I find VOX videos informative and that one made me wonder about how misleading others I had trusted might have been.
So, thanks again, well done. :)
I find it weird that people call the constraints of the MCU "artistic compromise", because to me it's like saying a painter's canvases are a compromise because they aren't 3d. The connectivity of the MCU is an artistic choice, one that is very deliberately made to tell a story that can only be told in this medium. To change the medium would be to change the art, not free it from compromises.
I get the impression whoever the prime movers behind this were are just upset at MCU's dominance over the film business. I fail to see why that is Marvel's fault, given that response to this domination has been tepid at best.
Preach it brother.
Well put
Over twenty films and no major awards, few nominations (not even special effects) As a comic fan I love that these movies are being made. But these movies are not that great on their own. Arguing about “how great the connectivity is” is really about hyping the next movie not about the movies individually.
Jeff Williams
So true. To make a MCU film is only as good as the MCU allows it to be, hence the Russo bros. films
X Men? The guys at Voxed think X Men is a better take on linked films? X Men timeline is a fucking mess full of retcons! And half of those films don't only suck but they fail to fit in the narrative! You can call Marvel on their blandness and formulaic nature, mostly phase 2 which kinda sucked, but you just can't say Fox made a better job on anything, Logan and Deadpool were great but those are 3 films out of how many? And look at how bad their interconnection work! They had to recast everyone in X Men!
I always look at the X-Men franchise as a failed experiment in MCU style storytelling. It could have been what the MCU became a decade earlier. But they squandered what they had. The only reasons Deadpool and Logan were made is because it was late in the cycle and they had screwed up so badly that they were just open enough to both.
@@johnathonhaney8291 right! And let alone doing Deadpool 2 and Logan if the first Deadpool had tanked! They could have made the prequels a 2 parter so that Mystic left Xavier little by little and they could have stretched the Apocalypse saga for a long while giving each X men a role in the fight. But no, they threw everything at the wall recasting every 2 films hoping something stuck! And hardly any film didn't revolved around either Magneto or Charles. They never took a different road or tried to make anything in other genre and they were constantly changing every time something failed. Remeber Origins? They were supposed to be several films but they gave up immediately.
@@laurocoman I think I am possibly the only person on the planet who actually liked Wolverine Origins actually. Yes, it was messy and as overstuffed with side characters as the mainline X-Men films. But it gets better to watch every time I give it a look. And yes, I DO recall Magneto was supposed to get his own Origins movie that was scrapped after Wolverine Origins crashed and burned. The biggest mistake was likely mindset. They thought of the X-Men franchise like individual films instead of TV episodes like MCU does.
@@johnathonhaney8291 right, I heard that about Magneto. I also liked a few films everyone hates, like Iron Man 3 and I don't mind to watch Batman v Superman, it's not that bad because of the visuals... that Martha thing though XD
Bitchslapped hey more half of Phase 2 ranged from amazing to pretty good (Winter Soldier, Guardians, Age of Ultron, Ant Man)
Bro. You're videos are great and I love them but I'm hones just SOOO impressed by your transitions. Especially the ones into your ads. I hate sponsors in videos, but yours, I watch everytime
Man, I really like some of Vox’s other educational videos, they’re really well done, but that marvel video was trash. I hope they learn their lesson and get back to making great content
They're really well ~edited~, but often woefully incorrect. They're a lot like John Oliver - they use appealing content to push half-truths and faulty narratives.
The moment he said nobody would be against a Star Wars/Marvel crossover I knew what was the real point he was trying to make. He thinks so little of fans of these types of stories that he imagines we’re perfectly fine with literally anything as long as it has our favorite characters in it. We’re all just mindless superhero fans blablabla. That’s it, “I don’t get why people like Captain America” with fancy editing.
And he obviously hates crossovers on their very fundations
Dave102693 yeah and the whole thing felt incredibly biased because of it
Also in Pulp Fiction, Mia tells the story of a pilot she was in called Fox Force Five where she played a character called Black Mamba. That was the foundation of Kill Bill 1 & 2. So they were connected in a way.
What a marvel character crossover with another marvel character
Imagine my shock
There's even been a Marvel/DC crossover
I also disagree with your assessment that Vox got it right in saying that the Netflix shows only pay lip service to the larger events of the MCU. Jessica Jones was discriminated against and shot by a crazed couple because they blamed her for the death of a loved one during the Incident. Luke Cage was also shot, twice, by bullets made from Chi'tauri bullets, possibly sold by Toomes' crew themselves. And lest we forget, the population generally fears these characters (Luke Cage being an exception, for very good reasons) because of The Incident; the writers just prefer to work this into the general flow of the narrative rather than address it in one or two scenes - they have 13 hours of storytelling to integrate it into, after all, rather than having to cram it into a 90-150 minute film. The whole point of the shows was to represent the "heroes" who aren't rich and resourceful and fly around the world on high-rise adventures all the time. They're just trying to live their lives and blend in as everyday street-level folk do. The fact that the people around them act as if life is still going on as usual is completely believable; it's human nature to be afraid of that which we don't understand, and our coping mechanism is to often turn a blind eye to it altogether.
And yet Vox tries to make it out as if _Jessica Jones_ (the show) was an excuse for Marvel to sell Captain America action figures. We see that action figure for less than 10 seconds, for crying out loud. Each episode is an hour long, with 13 episodes per season. If anything, I'd say the Netflix shows have an appropriate quantity of references to the larger narrative. Anything more would be distracting, and had they done it, doubtlessly Vox would have complained that they tried too hard to tie the movies and the shows together. Sorry, but I'm not giving this criticism any merit. The shows, low-budget as they may be, have the freedom to excel where the movies are often constrained. They provide a type of humanity and familiarity to the MCU that's almost reassuring, a comfortable level of individual relatability that's different from the flashier Avengers, who provide relatability on a broader, more universal scale.
To add to that point, entire seasons of Agents of Shield revolve around Hydra, the collapse of Shield, and the Sokovia Accords. There's minorish cameos by Sif and Fury, and sure, some of the stuff they say is lip service because they can't get the actual Avengers in the movies, but a lot of what happens in Agents of Shield is directly impacted and integrated into the series.
We get the footman's view of Shield and of how people view different people with super powers.
I know Agents of Shield isn't Netflix, but I think the point sort of stands that Marvel's TV shows do their best with the limited resources that they have to integrate the universe.
they been skating along fine so far ,but the events of infinity war will need to be addressed on the tv shows sooner or later or it will look silly so I am not sure what they going to do, I really like the TV shows and I dont want them in an "alternate universe"to the main MCU
To Jared's point: Honestly, Agents of SHIELD has only been riding the MCU's fame for the first season, really. Mentioning the Avengers and the Marvel movies' events every time. After the first season, however, while the show still mentioned MCU events as they happened, it pretty much became a show on its own that didn't rely on the movies' fame anymore.
The Netflix shows all take place immediately before or right up to Civil War. None of them have caught up in the timeline to Infinity War.
Look I love Agents of Shield and Daredevil and I was really excited to think about all these other characters existing in the same universe at a more "street level" but let's be real, it's clear by now that aside from a few references and a cameo by Maria Hill, Nick Fury or Lady Sif (all of which were on AoS btw) the TV series clearly are their own universe and none of those characters are EVER gonna turn up in a movie or vice versa.
I got the impression from their answers to questions by fans and interviewers that the relationship between Kevin Feige (MCU Head) and Jeph Loeb (TV Series Head) seems frosty at best. Feige clearly doesn't trust Loeb to even extend his vision of the MCU so despite the numerous references, the Netflix universe is clearly a separate entity. AoS may be impacted by movie events like the Hydra reveal and the Ultron helicarrier connection but it will never EVER work the other way around even if they had some large world impacting storyline. I mean, there were multiple new inhumans popping up globally at one point in that show, not one of them caught the attention of the Avengers?
I see what you mean with your main point that crossovers are inartistic and overused but... a good crossover can be more artistic than the separate movies would you prefer it if Iron man, Hulk, Thor, Captain america and Spiderman existed in different universes? I would be devastated to see such potential as the avengers be ignored for the plot of each individual character. I understand that a character needs to evolve and develop but It's also important to see that development as a group. If Black panther and Antman did a cross over, I wouldn't be that thrilled, Its similar to as Starvengers crossover but to have a Captain America and Iron Man crossover is brilliant as they both have opposing views that exist in the same universe that DIRECTLY relate to the people their trying to protect. Should they be free to do what they want or should they be licenced by the government. Like Captain Midnight said the whole of Spiderman Homecoming's set up for the Vulture is a spectacular example of this. Damage control is a great comic series and I'd like to see more of it. Dc fails at this from going from a divided city on whether Super Man is good or bad to "EVERYONE misses Superman. Why is he dead." The Superman vs Batman movie had potential but misused it by making the characters connected by plot and not by their beliefs and ideology. If Thor just popped into a Spiderman film or comic and said. I was there when your father died and didn't save him dispite being a doctor would be a prime example of DC's mistakes. You can't throw different properties together without a level of connection or contrast that works well with each other. Again this relates to the tone and themes of properties but that's enough from me.
Anyways good video and I'd love to see more like it.
Manx Marvel what’s funny is I wouldn’t even calling Thor: Ragnorak a “crossover”. Hulk and Bruce were an established character in that universe who no one would be surprised to see standing next to Thor. Them together is just part of the universe, they are two characters who know each other completely. How is that a crossover?
Thank you for this video. I like a lot of Vox’s videos. But this one was just bad.
Vox is trash lol
I agree totally. Vox vids are normally engaging but that particular vid was like ???
Andrew Wadsworth I’m haven’t watched a lot of Vox’s stuff, but the videos I have watched by them are pretty cohesive and bring up great points. How someone thought this video was a good idea just baffles me. Take away the fancy editing and you just get a crappy video essay that goes absolutely nowhere in the point its trying to convey.
Which universe are you from where you changed your name, Walter?
@neil finder and they're just another cancerous Mainstream media YT channel smh
One thing the MCU can improve is do more small crossovers in films, like Thor and Hulk in Ragnarok or Iron Man in Homecoming.
I’d love to see a team-up with Bucky Barnes and Hawkeye, Daredevil and Spider-Man, etc.
Omg yes. Bucky and Clint would have to keep Peter and Matt from getting killed, or in Matt's case, really broody.
Ivan Ortega’s Hair Yeah but it ends next year though...
The Netflix shows aren't exactly in the MCU, it's kind of a one way door. Stuff form the movies effects the shows, but not vice versa. Even agents of shield (the most closely connected to the MCU) still hasn't had any crossovers with the MCU.
Agents of Shield did have Lady Sif and Nick Fury in it so I'd call those crossovers
Honestly I'd love Daredevils Kingpin make his way into a Spiderman movie.
Regarding Spiderman Homecoming, you didn't even mention the fact that freaking Iron Man is actually in the dang movie with a role in the plot - a minor one, but still a role.
And we first met this Spider-Man in a Captain America movie.
still feel like you took it easy on them.
He totally did.
Yup.
Whoah, it’s a surprise seeing you here
He did
Well it's wrong to approach this with a triggered mindset and inadvertently hate on the channel
I think the problem was that the Vox video was directed by Zack Snyder.
Because of Batman vs Superman?
@@christofferlou joke, bro. 😉
Zack Snyder? I don't hate him, I just think he's a terrible storyteller. He's great as a director if only for spectacle, but he'll readily abandon substance and character to accomplish that goal. He did well with Watchmen, but I feel that's only because the material was already written as a whole and so ingrained with fandom that all he had to do was adapt it to film and he knew he was limited in manipulating the story threads. So the substance was there, he just added the spectacle. The same with the Dawn of the Dead remake (which I liked) ... he took liberties, but the core of the story was already there. When it comes to putting a cohesive story together on his own, he can't do it ... if a script is not something grounded in years of pop culture history and fanfare, he gets wildly stupid ideas that are severely detached from the subject matter and runs with them to the detriment of whatever project he's running. BvS was a testament to that inability ... the story was an amalgam of several plot threads that did not work together, a hodgepodge of legendary storyline fragments that he and Goyer smashed together because they wanted a string of "cool moments" that were familiar to fans instead of a solid plot. He may still have a place, but I really don't think it's in the director's chair ... and definitely not at the writer's table.
T3RRORBULL It’s because he’s basically Micheal Bay, but thinks he’s Christopher Nolan.
I don't think you can speak, knowledgeably, on the opinions of other directors, especially when you consider a) the broad majority of them haven't commented publicly on his work, and b) any praise he's gotten from other directors could merely be a default professional courtesy.
You can like or dislike any movie you want, no one can fault you for opinion (or knowledgeably speak on behalf of your opinion, as I stated above). I really wanted to like BvS, but I knew I wouldn't when I saw the second trailer because it was obvious that Snyder had, in fact, stitched random stories together. This isn't an isolated incident. There have been several interviews with people who have worked with him stating that Snyder has a bad habit of sacrificing story beats for "cool shot" ideas he has in the moment and cramming them into a movie whether it fits or not. I can tell you as a writer, that its a horrible way to compose a story ... it can't be that much different to infer that it's a bad practice for filmmaking as well. If that's his MO, then it's pretty safe to say that he probably shouldn't be in a director's--or even a writer's--chair.
Dude, I hope you're getting monetised for quality content like this...balanced, fair and well thought through. Props to you sir!!
That Vox video was a total mess.
*But* *that* *editing* *tho.*
This can be said about almost any Vox video.
I couldn't finish their video, it was so bad
TrevorBOB it gets better at the end, apparently Xmen did a better job at shared universes
kind of like Guardians 2
Seeing this thumbnail suggestion saved me from ranting in the vox comments section... appreciate your calm talk down lol that arguement was such a reach wow
Seems like vox almost doesn't believe what they're saying in their video, i don't think it's too much of a stretch for that video to have been created out of a need to be contrarian, because it's almost a weird form of click-bait, "you know this thing that's real popular? I disagree with a popular opinion about it, click here to see why." I feel like I see a lot of those videos floating around, "why ___ is not as good as you think." Not saying that video(s) are click-bait, but it does seem like a common trend in the video essay side of TH-cam to be contrarian, and that might be a little exploited by some, maybe vox. I wouldn't blame them too much if this is true, TH-cam money I hear is about as hard to find as a real $3 bill
I think your correct. This reminds me of "moral crusaders" who take cheap pot shots at video games and rap music to remind the public they still exist.
People are liking this video not just because you support MCU but also because you are actually saying something that makes sense.. wrote a similar but opposite comment on Vox's video.
Au contraire...I DO like this video because I am an MCU diehard.
Lakshit Dagar ^^^
Looks like Johnathon Haney is here to prove you wrong. Not even surprised smh
@@radrno7 Nah, just being truthful. I can't claim to be objective so I don't bother trying to. That said, the mental gymnastics employed by Vox on this (and this is far from the first time I've seen them make such a torturous argument) does little to make their case. Denny O'Neill's statement on how such types only give such pop culture phenomena its due after they've been safely fossilized comes to mind.
I'm so glad I wasn't the only one with these thoughts on the Vox video - and I love how well thought out your criticism is, without being petty or hateful.
Glad I stumbled across your channel!
I don't even like the MCU all that much, and I thought that Vox video was baaaaaaaaad. I couldn't finish it.
I saw their video before you made your response. It was pathetic. Barely any of their arguments were aimed at the MCU, and the few that were, were very lacking. And then to claim that Fox's X-men universe is done better, when it's literally only one set of characters from one property? That really blew it. They knew they were trolling for clicks, and they got them.
I'm certain that in Homecoming they dont just steal Chitauri tech but there're references to Ultron, Sokovia and Thor.
Thank you for taking the time to set vox straight... you were very fair, you could have been more condescending and no one would have blamed you for it.
"You got me alright got me in perfect position" lol
Thanks for the rebuttal-the Vox video frustrated the hell out of me but I had trouble phrasing why.
I just don't get what point Vox was trying to make. At one point in their video, it seemed like it was "we need more reasons to crossover to make the universe feel whole and connected", but then it was "crossovers are bad because of attempting to mix the tones of two different characters". I just don't get what they were going for at all, especially with the whole snow globe comparison and everything. They're video had some decent arguments, but I just don't know where they were going with any of them, and some even contradicted each other from my understanding. Either way, this was a great response video! Good job, Captain Midnight!
@j q Unfortunately, it worked.
it's that crossover is the selling point to fans like you and you ignore the flaws of the actual movie
No Diggity except nobody really ignores the flaws in marvel movies. Every time marvel puts out a bad movie, the fans shit on it pretty heavily.
My thoughts exactly, OP. I see a lot of people thanking Captain Midnight because, like you and me, they watched the Vox video grasping in vain at a main idea and finding nothing consistent, and CM managed to clarify what was being attempted... and that it was not successful.
EH Miguel no they dont. Captain Marvel just had one of the worst marvel movie trailers ever yet is still going to get a billion dollars because its Marvel
I don't see how artistic compromise affected Marvel at all. I don't understand what people want from these films. The Marvel universe as a whole is fantastic. Please correct me if I wrong. What do people really WANT from Marvel. This is a huge head scratcher for me.
NoExit NoProblem all of you missed Vox’s point it that Marvel has plot continuity but not thematic. Like for example the xmen universe in every single franchise there’s the struggle for being accepted, but in the much you can have anything from government overarching to friends backstabbing you, it doesn’t have a feel.
I am confused because I thought themes SHOULD be different in films and not the same copy and paste thematic idea. That would just get bland and boring after awhile.
errr I meant continuity
@@noexitnoproblem6037 I mean marvel have similar themes like redemption or family in every single movie; however, they subvert redemption or family themes or have a side theme like Colonialism in Black Panther. The artistic comprise thing that Vox was a good claim, but they didn't back it up. To be honest MCU films look the same with Cinemaphotography, editing, shot composition, etc. Marvel wouldn't allow somebody like Nolan or Denis Villeneuve to be 100% control of their films because Nolan or Villeneuve want to make their own movies rather than trying set up sequels.
Because all marvel films are the exact same just with different premises, they make films for people that don't really like films that much. Boring cringy dialogue, similar boring plots and boring subplots that aren't set out well enough to make you care about them. MCU films got bland and boring after like 2 or 3 of them, infinity war was better but that's because it had been in preparation for years.
They answered a question that we didn’t ask. They basically reported the history of cross-overs.