HP t5710 Thin Client for DOS and Windows 98 Retro PC Gaming
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.ค. 2019
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AND HE'S BACK LADIES AND GENTLEMEN! Back to retro stuff! Yayyyyyy
Customer walks in, furious. The computer shop across town charged him $450+tax for a preowned Dell workstation PC with an ivy bridge i7, but he made it clear to them that all he wanted was something to run Windows 98 so he could do word processing and use an ancient printer and scanner (he's 87 years old), but many of the features he expects are not working in vmware, the printer/scanner doesn't work right, and the resolution looks like trash. He was just angry and fed up. Angry rich guys make my day.
Wanted me to build him a functional Windows 98 PC, money being NO OBJECT. He wants it as new as possible, reliable, but able to run Windows 98 natively without any confusing virtual machine stuff (which is another WORLD for an 87 year old person who loves Windows 98)
This video just solved the issue. We're going to sell the i7 Dell and use the recovered funds to pay me, and to get one of these thin clients set up so he can do his offline word processing in peace, in the environment he remembers, with full resolution and device support.
Thanks, Phil! As soon as I am paid by him, I will be donating to you.
What a beautiful story. I hope he was happy with his brand new Windows 98 PC!
YES! I love these thin client videos so much! :)
Yes! Finally a retro-related video! I really liked the other videos lately but this retro stuff is what interest me the most. Your videos definitely and directly inspired me to build a few retro computers that I still use on a regular basis.
Keep up the great work!
Those Transmeta CPUs weren't the greatest at certain tasks. Installing applications took FOREVER on the units I used to repair. Their instruction translation system wasn't very strong at de-compression algorithms from what I could tell, so the "decompressing files" stage was a good time to grab that cup of coffee.
Twice the 3DMark 99 score of my Compaq Deskpro PIII, that's actually really impressive for a thin client
Side note: if it's not obvious by the 400 comments you've seen from me in the last couple of days, I've been binge watching your entire library. So much good, interesting, helpful info, thank you for doing all this work!
Thank you, that means a lot to me :D
That case design feels perfect for a 2005 era PC.
So Happy. Retro thin client video. Thanks Phil.
the issue with the Crusoe isn't the code-morphing stuff per se, it's the PCI bus bottlenecking everything. the memory controller shares the bus with the GPU and CPU over a single PCI lane, if literature on the subject is right. the Efficeon fixes this by adding AGP support. You're probably getting better numbers than I ever will on a 933MHz Crusoe T5800 in a Fujitsu laptop with one since I'm running XP for the 802.11n support and also because I'm limited to PC133 in the form of microDIMMs and onboard RAM. I'm going to see about picking one of these up now since your video has proven everything I thought about these systems correct with relation to performance going up with DDR RAM.
As a side-note, it shouldn't support 1GB of RAM, the memory controller was only ever certified for 512MB on DDR and 1GB on PC133. The fact it allows for it is a BIOS bug, but that's a proper feature in this particular machine since it does allow 2000 or XP to get better performance. I also want to blame the fact they have newer BIOS firmware installed with fixes and stuff from Transmeta, something that was never offered for my Fujitsu and not hackable since the firmware is encrypted.
I'm very happy to see another video about retro goodness. I like the value videos, but I have been missing Phils commentary on retro hardware!
Yay!
I love another one of these series!
It's pretty nice that these type of thin clients come with a ide pin slot.
Hol up. Didn't I stop you in task manager.
Loved the vid. It’s awesome to see what you can do with these tiny thin clients.
I've just ordered one of these, I've got a stack of old floppy and CD games to play, and cant get sound to work in dos on my other win98 machine for the life of me. I see your website even has all the drivers available Phil. You're a legend mate, thanks 😄 👍
I had to pack away my big old gaming pc due to space and this thing is perfect, I didn’t know it existed. Thank for this I think I’m going to buy one.
I really love those old ATI logos. Reminds me of my Dell Inspiron 1501 I used to own.
I still called them Ati Radeon cards even it's now AMD ;-)
My first card I ever got too play LineageII with my dad when I was younger was a ATI Radeon 2600 Series. I was so excited when I finally worked up enough money too go get a cheap EMachines PC and this card. Then my sister did the same thing and got a better deal and I was salty. lol
Yes, I have the same feeling when I see that logo on the nintendo gamecube
i know someone here in the comments was asking about doing retro stuff for a few weeks now. a toast to that gent for getting us back on track
Linus Torvalds worked for Transmeta.
I'm sure he is the guy responsible for creating a virtualized layer to simulate x86.
Latency on the video looked amazing. Great review.
Just ordered one from Ebay for 60 USD today because of your video. Thank you!
Hope you enjoy it!
Just ordered myself one recently, just for the Transmeta chip.
Can't wait to play with it once it arrives :)
I've ordered one of these HP T5710 Thin Clients, too!
The pen trick! I didnt know that one. Thanks!
This is pretty amazing. Any games too slow on this would be better served by an XP system. So this is ideal for 98. The fact that the soundblaster emulation works well is just amazing. I run 98se and Windows 2000 which can browse the Web nicely.
I see Old Windows 98 and ATI Logo... Have my Like and Love...
Lovely machine that sparked my interest!
Blast the sound blast to blast!
The sound in these old games still unparalleled today. And music
Been waiting for your Friday video! :D
Device boots from any device:
Phils: then boot from BANANA! xD
I see many BANANA
That PCI slot's just begging for a PCI to PCIe bridge and RTX 2080. Let that Transmeta processor CodeMorph some ray-traced games baby, yeah!
I'd pay money to see that video
ray traced quake 2!
Maybe wouldn't even work because of Drivers,but yeah,why not?
'being the "cool guy" in parties':
Actually any gpu newer than a gtx750 requires a uefi compatible bios or uefi firmware.
It wouldnt post in that machine :/
@jamesassbag the latte panda melts this little client though haha
For those interested in this thinclient, you can search and grab a free copy of the tool Throttle which will allow CPU downclocking. I am still toying with the wingcommander settings, its not the one advertised as a 386 as this thinclient is to fast for that, so you want one of the slowest ones like option E.
Oh man. I remember when I could finally afford to crank things up to 1024x768. The original Far Cry was the first game that wrecked my PC and started the lifetime journey of continuing upgrades and system builds. No regrets. 😎
Fucken love the Thin Client videos! Keep it up Phil and Grüße aus Deutschland
Finally got my hands on one of these, and my 3dMark 2000 score with default settings was a 1244 (compared to your 1053). I used the same ATI v6.2 drivers so not sure why mine was that much higher. But there's more: reverting to older v2.4 ATI drivers brought the score up to nearly 1300, and using the Omega v2.4 drivers brought it up to 1327. Then using the overclock utility that came with the Omega drivers, I pushed the clocks up from 144 MHZ default each (engine and ram) to 200 and 210 mhz and got the score up to a 1416. Artifacts began at a ram clock of 220 and I just didn't trust pushing the engine clock any higher even though it didn't have problems at 200 (my gains were less and less with each bump up anyways). At any rate, getting that score up to a 1416 is nearly a 35% performance boost. Got similar gains in 3dMark99.
The 16mb of used ram is for the "code morphing" software. This was a necessity to make the translation process transparent.
Not just "software". x86 code is translated to native Transmeta code by JIT recompiler and after translation it takes more space. It is executed from "hidden" part of RAM and cached for further reuse.
@@noop9k That too...
@@camthesaxman3387 It's a custom ISA as far as I know, not derived from MIPS or ARM.
I can't provide direct links, but look at the Wikipedia page "Transmeta_Crusoe". At the bottom are links for "Crusoe Exposed" which gets deep into the architecture.
It's quite literally 'Thin'... Nice. Wow, it ran Hal-Life pretty well! That game changed everything. It was the best 50 dollars I ever spent on a game. After beating the it I went on to multiplayer then TF2, then CS beta 3, Sven-coop...etc. There was always something to play with the HL engine for many years. Still is! I would've loved to have that back when I was playing OG Half-Life for traveling.
Couple years ago i installed freenas on.it works fine
Hello there Phil.
There are TWO different T5710 revisions.
They share the same hardware, mostly, because chipset is different ... Second version has a Transmeta Efficeon 1.2ghz instead the Transmeta Crusoe 800mhz. I believe Efficeon is MMX and SSE compatible and has a much better bus data transfer than it's predecesor.
I didn't have the time to test it myself, but i guess it would be a nice thing to do a a video for that version.
I do believe that will not hold back the Radeon 7000 as much as the 800mhz version does.
It will probably get better results on MS-DOS either.
Cheers!
www.extremetech.com/computing/182790-amds-next-big-gamble-arm-and-x86-cores-working-side-by-side-on-the-same-chip/2
@@ZacharyNoah Hows Dos Box Running with the 800mhz, Speedwise? Like a DX66?
Fun stuff. Definitely something I'd be interested in getting at some point although the worry about not being able to slow certain games down may stop me from getting this.
I've been told Throttle works with this CPU, but haven't tested it!
These bios... I see 'em on every X58 motherboard I get my hands on.
Yes! I just ordered one of these and maybe I'll install a Voodoo 3 in that PCI slot ;)
When you open yours up, take a good look at the green capacitors. I got one of these thin clients a few months back and one of the caps was bulging with a bit of electrolyte leaking out. It might be a good idea to replace all of the green ones.
Good tip.
Yay! Go retro!
Some German eBay seller knows their game or this is a big coincidence... after watching this video I went straight to eBay and guess what thin client was in the sponsored recommendations...!
I'm a sucker for transmeta chips. Not fast at all, but an incredibly interesting architecture.
Slow is good when it comes to Retro Gaming :D At least for DOS it's a good thing!
Sweet, makes me motivated to want to fix this old Dell SX 220. It is an Old Pentium 4 Socket 478 & has 2 RAM slots for 444Mhz up to 2 Gigs from what I can get info wise on this Motherboard. Having a hell of a time finding solid info on it, I keep finding info on newer versions of the 775 socket interface. Even though yours looks more like a PIII it probly is almost as good as this one lol.
Very cool! I need one. :)
That sound card sounds pretty decent for a PCI card! Descent and Doom were pretty close to how I remember them on the SBPro clone my old Packard Bell had.
Yea it's pretty sweet. There are other good PCI sounds cards, especially the Yamaha YMF cards with real OPL3. It just wouldn't work with this machine...
Tiberian sun. The best game ever😍😀😀
@PhilsComputerLab
I know this is a minor thing, but I really do miss the intro and outro music. Great video as usual though!
Wow, I haven't thought these Transmeta CPUs are so fast and usable. :)
I actually find the lackluster windows 98 performance endearing. I think it is more authentic to what an average person would experience in windows 98 back in the day. Only with an absolute BEAST of a graphics card for the time hehe.
Nice... portable windows 2000 or XP rig ftw
That Thin Client is a very good option for retro gaming(might buy one meself) - since the period correct hardware is difficult to come by these days. The low power consumption is nice, but for Win 98, the best is still a Pentium III or Athlon (for late Win98 games). Last monday I was given an old PC with a fully funktional MSI Motherboard (KT333) with the Athlon XP 2200+. A 2002 Medion(Aldi) PC, every component still working - even the PSU. I also checked the MB caps.All good! It Has 2x 512mb DDR memory, so perfect for early-mid XP. Say what you want about the boring design, but these old Medion PC's were built with proper hardware. I will put it in a new black MATX case, add one of my GF 4200Ti. Welcome to a 3in1 Dos/Win98/Dos mashine.
Thumbs up for Descent gameplay.
nice little machine, i want one
I just went through my collection of sealed T5700 models (1 model year older than yours) and of the 9 I bought, most of them have blown caps - always the same 2 - the smaller 2 of the 4 large green ones - once blown these get really warm, really quick, and I even heard one sizzling. Looks like you got lucky (though one of yours looks like it might be bulging a bit, I can't tell for sure). I've de-soldered mine, now just waiting for some replacement Panasonic caps to show up.
Yea good advice! And 2 or 4 caps also isn't much work.
When the Transmeta Crusoe chips were first introduced in 2000 they seemed like a real win for laptops and other lower power computing applications. Especially in power & heat efficiency compared to the mobile Pentium 3 CPUs and especially compared to the desktop P3 chips a few laptops used (like the Toshiba Satellite 5005!) However, once they were actually released the low power draw came at a price, relatively low performance. The 800 mhz CPU in that thin client performs similarly to a 550 mhz Pentium 3 in most applications. The Crusoe CPU's only clocked up to 1 ghz which puts it on par with a P3 running at about 700 mhz. There was a 2nd generation released, the Efficeon, in October 2003. But by that time Intel had released the Pentium M (March 2003) CPUs which clocked up to 2.26 ghz where the Efficeon CPUs only ever clocked up to 1.7 ghz. Plus the raw performance clock for clock was again less than the Intel chips and Intel had made huge gains in power & heat efficiency with the Pentium M. The HP T5710 was one of only a handful of laptops or thin clients to use both the Crusoe and Efficeon CPUs. Most machines equipped with a Transmeta chip use the Crusoe.
Yea I wasn't able to find a unit with the Efficeon CPU, but this is likely just a matter of time before a unit becomes available :)
Lol I have two of these. The VIA CPU sure is interesting to look at
thanks Phil =)
Love these small thin clients for retro dos stuff, they are far more powerful than a DOS machine would have been in the era and if the hardware is all supported they do great work.
nice for dos games with sound
@PhilsComputerLab, the boot time should be back to normal when disabling DHCP or by connecting the thinclient to a network with DHCP service.
I wish those DOS drivers would work. Just a minor adjustment in the BIOS would do the trick!
Cool build!
That client reminds me to my Dell GX270 SFF which I put in a geforce 6200 recently and replaced some bad caps on the motherboard. Also got em 2GB of DDR 400 RAM and a bigger heatsink for the chipset with a small silent fan attached. It also have wireless-lan too so basically a "retro-htpc" . It runs both Windows XP and 7 in dual boot and strangely enough even with the low amount of RAM I can still use modern apps like google chrome and go on YT which is rather a choppy experience but it works.
I had a GX280 in the same form factor with a 3Ghz Prescott P4 but that machine died long ago. I'm not even wondering why, it sounded like an air plane all the time no matter how often I cleaned it but we all know how "great" these prescott P4 were...
@PhilsComputerLab -
You can @ 14:30 use the tool "DgVoodo" for 3Dfx glide being adapted to Direct3D , I use it with Unreal-1 (1998) , because it delivers the best result of all available renderers
Cute PC~
13:15 You can actually sidestep that! I think you go to "Network" settings and change the "Primary logon" to "Windows Logon".
Seemed like a must have until I saw the price, and USD none the less.
Damn, will have to scour your channel history for the larger though more affordable ones.
less then 50 bucks US on ebay
If you're feeling adventurous, there is an HP GT7725 on ebay new in the box with the PCI-E expansion.
I hope you're the one that bought it, Phil... Would love to see what you do with it.
Wish I could get my hands on one of these
No the R7000 has issues on some options in Turok1 (RadeonTweaker does fix some) deactivate render overleap!
I'm not big on these thin clients (I like real old stuff much better) but the Transmeta CPU is a real curiosity (I've yet to see one working) and the Solo-1 is interesting too.
nice i put this wish list
Favorite classic game is Diablo 2. Runs on almost anything.
That thing is about the same as my NUC Hades Canyon that is maxed out. In other words I do like the case.
This video made me like dos games. Who would have thought?
After you install network drivers you can just go under network settings under control panel and set the logon method back to windows logon so it boots straight to desktop again.
Great, I'll try this next time.
A problem with these t5710's is some can handle 1GB of ram and some cannot. I have one unit that will overheat 1GB sticks in seconds, it's very hit and miss whether you get a good one or not. Another issue is the USB poly-fuses tripping now and then if you try to use a CD drive, you have to leave the unit unplugged overnight for them to reset. If you have a unit that the USB had died on at some point, it has probably fixed itself by now.
Installing regular windows XP is possible but I don't recommend it, it is painfully slow compared to embedded. I used mine for uploading large youtube videos overnight, it worked well for that. Thought about turning it in to a dos box but assumed it would be more difficult
Edit: I am referring specifically to the 1.2GHz processor models.
this is one I haven't seen before well played sir LOL No sarcasm really I have not seen This PC before A lot of great ideas came to mind when I watched this video👍
For DOS game test, it's best to try games that tax the system, like 'MDK' and "The Lost Eden", as they're more than side scrollers, and have more advanced 3D processing (like DOOOM).
Great video! :) I've tested Turok on many different graphics cards and CPUs and I'm always getting 36-37 FPS. It might be a game limitation.
Thanks for this, good to know!
You inspired and gave confidence to me so I just ordered one of eBay, hope it will be a good option to having a "real" win 98 tower pc.
The manus come up with a thin/thick client solution every couple of years. At least at three places thin clients just didn't work well. We went pack to regular desktops.
Install 3dfx in the PCI slot - who needs a Sound Blaster!
Ah interesting, Transmeta processors. Nice! Any chance we'll see how far a Transmeta processor can go with a PCI graphics card?
Incredible, Phil - again! You already made me keen on making this on my own. Already ordered a t5710 on ebay, just used - no new ones available. Planning to make a nice W98SE machine out of it, I have a ton of W98 Games in original here. Hope, I can install and play them with a external DVD Drive, which I have in my cellar. Thank you very much for this informative video once more! Just two questions: The mentioned secondly to install VIA retro drivers are in the folder 4in1435v, right? Second - there are two folders containing USB 2.0 drivers in your packed driver file - which one is the right one?
I think one USB driver is international language? Also try Windows ME, apparently it does USB CD with Audio.
hi! nice tuto, I've a problem. I'm trying to install Win98(same Thin Client as yours) but when win98 setup is preparing, then appear the following message: "remove diskette in drive a, insert diskette in drive b press any key to continue" i´m stuck here, could you help me please?
I'm not sure, sorry.
Awesome movie!
512MB IDE Harddrive... OMG. time flies so fast..
I Love when people use Half Life for Testing retro PC's 😊
PCI port holy crap!
makes me wonder what they thought it would be used for. maybe some kind of file writing or something? idk.
Anyone tried VSB (Virtual Sound Blaster) on one of these using the built in sound? Or tried DOSSound?
If the graphics shared RAM can be changed up to 32meg in the bios, it should run HalfLife2. I've seen similar speed CPU run it on a 32meg GeForce2Mx400. Even with just 16meg video RAM, OperationFlashpointResistance should run. As should NeverWinterNights. As should jedi knight2.
I wonder if a PCI splitter would allow for both a sound and video upgrade? If you hit the internet in just the right way PCI -> PCI splitters do exist not just PCIe to multi-PCI units. Obviously you'd need to make something to protect the cards but that's well within the capabilities of a 3D printer.
good mini pc / gaming konsole
if you are getting screen tearing at the highest resolution plausible by the gpu bad video connection or not enough ram which max out at 3.5GB on a 23 bit OS it matters not whether you have a 2-512MB video screen tear typically happens when the gpu doesn't have the graphic ram to support the resolution, no matter what the games natively supported over a 17+inch display or higher
the games you are playing will, run on a xp machine you don't need to create a DOS partition to play these games..
if that had a embeded windows platform on it was most likely a eftpos machine...
I think you should try out the raspberry pi 3 experience for retro gaming with free dos and stuff like that and wine
👍👍👍
hwo are you connecting the vga output to a capture device? i need to output 240p from pc to current monitor, i have a retrotink 5x but i'm looking for options
pls tell me you replaced that bulging capacitor at 9:38