Just word of caution for those who want to buy a thin client for DOS/Retro gaming, I own a t5720 and it does not have a -12V supply for the PCI slot, so some sound card like the SBLive that uses the -12v rail for the amplifier circuit will not work unless you manually supply the -12V using a DC-DC buck boost converter, I used a generic one with -12V output and built a custom PCI riser, using Pin 62(Side A or B) for 5V input and connect the -12v output to Pin 1 on side B, which is the side with all the component. With the custom converter, I was able to get the SB0100 (SB Live 5.1) to work perfectly in this machine, before I was only able to get it recognized in Windows but does not output any sound. Search for "PCI Riser Card capacitors " and you should find a forum thread on Vogons that describes the issue.
I got this machine in 2019 after watching this video and it's pretty much a DOS/Early Windows gamer's dream machine in the modern era. As per the video description I got the WaveForce YMF724 which is indeed the perfect card for this machine as my YMF 744 refused to work at all. I ran into 2 issues with this machine and I'll provide a solution for those running into the same issues as myself to save you from a lot of frustration: 1. The VxD Yamaha Windows driver, while providing the best DOS compatibility under Windows, would freeze and BSOD my machine upon installing the "YAMAHA Legacy Sound" driver. This was due to an IRQ conflict as no resources were available. This can be fixed by entering the BIOS and disabling everything and just using PS/2 keyboard and mouse which was not ideal for me. The best fix I found for this problem was installing WDM drivers. Now this introduces another issue in which you won't be able to get FM synthesis in DOS under Windows which I can live with as I use Phil's 'MS-DOS Mode Super Easy' kit to boot into real DOS to play my DOS games. If your DOS game uses CD audio then you're in luck because the WDM drivers are 100% compatible so you'll hear the CD audio and the proper sound effects under Windows. I tried this with WWF In Your House and it works perfectly. 2. In real DOS mode, YMFDOS drivers would not detect my sound card on "DMA Channel 1" and the setupds utility would throw this error at me. Sounds in most games would still work just fine but some games would freeze the machine and some games wouldn't recognize the sound card at all. The fix, which I finally found after 2 years of owning this machine, is that there's a version of the YMFDOS utility on the VOGONS forum for late SiS motherboards and everything works absolutely perfectly after using that setup utility. TL;DR = You're probably going to have to perform some tweaks in order to get things working properly on this machine but once you do, this will quite possibly be the best Win9x/DOS machine in your collection that you could game on.
Hey, kinda random, not sure if you're going to see this. I got a WaveForce to use with my t5720 after having severe issues with a YMF744 and not being able to get sound in DOS with a SOLO-1 (I'm using the cards in other systems now). Could you post a link to the vogons post where you found working drivers? It would be very helpful. Thanks!
@@Game__Boy unfortunately i can't find that thread at all strangely enough. i'll upload it and post the link here for anyone that's interested when i get around to it.
Back then, I remember trying to play NFS Underground on that SIS Mirage graphics. It didnt ended well. Even using ddr400 memory, after some time playing, the computer *always* BSODed.
I got contacted and some people might be experiencing an issue with this Thin Client and the YMF744 Sound Card shown in the video. The card worked fine for me when I did the review, but when using it again I got audible interference. I tried another card, a Yamaha WaveForce 192XG, and this one worked fine. Another card that worked is a Terratec ESS Solo-1.
It seems you definitely need to use Windows 98 to set the correct DMA and IRQ. For some reason it uses DMA 3 out of the box. Also, if you get a DMA error, just ignore it and exit without saving. Then run dsdma and see if it works in games.
This is a nice thin client. A Voodoo PCI card would do nicely. If you can find a thin client or a SFF with two PCI slots, that might be very fun to play with.
great video. it is a cool idea for a project. thin clients always got that aura of mistery to me. i never see one in execution. but for the most reminds me of those old IBM PS2 computers. and also those computers with reduce form factor. i wonder if the inverse could be done, using an old computer as a thin client?
The thing I hate the most about Retro PCs is the size (relative to the Performance) and the Noise. And since I would never have to Upgrade, a Thin Client is pretty much perfect for me :^)
All problems you have with sound in Windows 98 is because of WDM drivers, in order to install VXD drivers you must run the SiS 7012 audio driver installer with "Setup.exe -vxd", or install the VXD drivers manually.
@@RyanAvx I have not tested it extensively, but i tried years ago and dos games were sounding as they sould. But take in mind there will always be problematic games.
I really like this machine. It looks slick, both on the inside and outside, and has pretty much everything required. Beautiful passive cooling solution by the way, that's just awesome. If I find one in EU somewhere I'd probably buy one right away. =)
Oooh that same lovely SiS Mirage 1 chipset as my hybrid system. So I know everything bar the soundcard will be okay.... terrible VESA support on the graphics chip though (but just the same as later Radeon 9xxx/X cards).
I noticed this machine has the SiS 7012 integrated audio solution. I have a machine with SiS 7018 audio and it has real mode DOS drivers which are not that bad (the 30kb conventional memory footprint being their worst drawback) featuring SB16 and General Midi compatibility. Does the SiS 7012 have those as well?
The SiS 7018 are based of the Trident 4DWave PCI sound chip and it's only available in some of SiS' single chip chipset solutions, the 730 and 630 series. Unfortunately many SiS 730/630 motherboards came with a CMI 8738 PCI sound chip instead of the external codec chip required for the SiS 7018. You can actually run the 7018 without a TSR but you don't get any GM and you need to set the sample rate manually with an utility.
Oh, my bad, the SiS 7018 is different beast (and quite interesting for an integrated sound card). And I failed to notice before that your DXDIAG screenshot clearly shows you're using WDM drivers, which strikes me as odd, since all WDM drivers I've ever seen just use Win98's built in SBEMUL.sys for DOS sound support, which usually has decent compatibility, aside from not having any kind of OPL3 emulation. If you still have the machine set up you could try using Win95's VXD drivers. At least for the SiS 7018 the WDM drivers were crap.
So, Alex, are you saying win95 should have better DOS sound support? I want to avoid installing any additional cards, and to have decent DOS gaming on t5720
Hi I Will wait for Phil to answer properly, but in the mean time, his web page has dos testing tools all available in a single download , there was a brief screen shot of the dos batch options. For windows and more modern games, some games have a timed demo with statistics, for others, you can use a program called Fraps, do a search they have their own web page
Fix for the AOPEN AW744-L2 can be found on vogons in this thread: www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=62652#p717239 It ended up being a problem with noise on the PCI bus. Adding capacitors to the PCI riser card is what fixes it.
I bought the exactly same one.. just because of this video. Thanks. Good work. But tell me: I wanted to put dos, w95, w98 and xp...all together. Which mSata Flash and which ram would you reccommend? I was thinking maybe the same 64gb and 1gb ddr you use for XP. Would be ok? And Sound card?
Yes, i'd say test if it boots up. It should boot up as it's just Linux distro. If the PC can run 98SE then it should run Lakka aswell with GeForce 6200
It depends on what's underneath the hood of Lakka and which features the CPU has. Pentium III and certain Pentium M won't boot a current Linux at all. There were workarounds sometime ago, but I don't know if those still work on current Linux.
PhilsComputerLab cant you use pci lane splitter to have both a video car and a sound card in windows xp or windows 98? and how well will windows 3.1 run on this?
Hey Phil, love your videos. You have a recommendation for the best gaming video card for this machine running XP home edition? I put a Riva TNT2 M64 in it and it was a dog. Onboard graphics were faster. LOL
Hi Phil - Great video I've just bought a 5720 To use as a mini Windows 98 Gaming machine. Did you happen to try nGlide with the onboard SIS Video card?
Hi Phil - Got my hands on thr T5720. nGlide doesn't work (Probably as it's reliant on a DX9 Video card). However I've had excellent results with an old release of dgVoodoo which seems to play DOS And Windows Glide games very nicely - I think it is for DirectX7 So perfect for this setup
I also got another brand PCI riser card. Still waiting on the unit (the regular 5720 without expansion) and that card. If someone knows of a PCI riser card that works or know where the original part can be purchased for a reasonable price please let me know!
my favourite part is when you get out THE SCREWDRIVER. with surgical precision of course. my main question is: will this 35 $ board run longer than 2 years?
So I basically bought everything you did in this video, but the compact flash version. How do you have the ide cable ran? I'm worried about it melting from being on top of the heatsink or maybe it won't get hot enough to do any damage. Also, the vendor on ebay sold me one that looks like it needs more work. I ordered another pci riser as mine looks like it was bathed in cola. Also, did you recap yours? The side of mine is so dusty I can't really tell if it's needed yet.
2:00 montage! The motherboard's form factor resembles Mini-ITX, which a lot of older thin clients adopted. Interesting upgraded example here: qubeserver.com/T5720/Gallery.html
I actually tested this, the screws line up, but the board is deeper, so it wouldn't fit in my case. Worse is the PCI slot, it's just a bit off to the side
Hey Phil, are we able to get the onboard Ethernet device on this machine to work under DOS in a similar way to the PCI devices you usually install in retro PCs?
I was check these thin client videos of yours again and was trying to find the playlist but I couldn't find it. Did you remove the playlist for the Thin Client vids?
@@philscomputerlab Nice I'll be waiting for it to be back. I was searching for your thin client videos playlist because I'm looking into getting some sort of low power computer for running Raspotify (Spotify Connect server). Since I have DDR2 laptop memory unused I was checking if any of the thin clients you featured used DDR2, but seems like more of the ones you featured were DDR3. I'll have to check if I overlooks any of your thin client videos particularly the non HP ones and maybe look into getting a Windows XP-Vista era laptop that has a Core 2 Duo.
Did you use the DSDMA TSR for your Yamaha card? I ask because the SiS 962 southbridge can run the card in DDMA mode with a modified SETUPDS but I don't have any working boards with the SiS 963 southbridge to test with. At least the SiS 964 is a no go with DDMA and requires the DSDMA TSR to work.
Kamerat Just a quick update. Firstly, that AOpen card developed some interference issues. I didn't have them when producing the video, but after a few reports I setup the machine again, and now I'm hearing it also. So I swapped it out for a WaveForce, and that one sounds clear. I got around to trying that SIS modified driver, and yup, it works great. Doesn't need EMS and tested it with Turrican II, so that's pretty sweet. I think SIS chipsets will become in demand soon...
You had me looking at these from a previous video, you finally convinced me to order one :) My question now though is: are there adapters to interface a USB joystick with a 15-pin joystick port on a DOS-compatible sound card? (Or maybe I need to DIY something with a USB-host-capable microcontroller and PWM outputs)
This machine will be DOS only. I'll see if I can hack together an interface to go from a USB HID joystick to analog (PWM)/digital out to the gameport. Experiment time! :)
Hello, i want to buid a new retro pc for xp and w98 and i have 2 options now, a hp t610 (dual Core amd and onboard Radeon hd6320 graphics) and a hp t5740 plus (intel atom n280), both for 30€ shipped, which Noe do you recomend me? Can the hd 6320 Run basic xp games? Thank you, awsome Chanel
I think I'll try to contact him, maybe he'd be willing to sell just the module for a reduced price (the shipping is quite the dealbreaker for anyone from EU).
@@philscomputerlab Ops Sorry it is the smartphone keyboard that bothered me, I want to know if p4 cedar mill 3. 6 ghz model 661 is the last one made. If not, what is the last P4?
Now I have a T5720 .. but running from USB .. and it has a lot of sector not found issues .. no idea what to do. Also tried a Compact Flash connected thru CF adapter to IDE .. not even able to see the CF .. so I presume I need to unlock something. ?!?
Hi All, Another nice video Phil. Did you use 2 separate drives for each OS ??? Typically in these senarios i make a dos boot disk and make a dos 6.22 partition 2G max, and install dos games. From There i install XP on a new partition and when it is all over i have the multi boot menu. You can also install 98 this way first and then XP It is good to see 98 getting a modern machine to run on and often 512m ram is the limit for Win98, the patches dont always work( i think 1 in 7 machines i tried ). Getting XP running on these is simple and useful, full size desktops and hardward pre 2000 is getting hard to find in 100% working condition and eventually i will come across a good machine and wait for the failed components to appear ( bad caps ) Are you able to do a series on these machines as a stand alone early games machine, then be able to use them as a thin client to a existing Win 7 to Win 10 machine on a cat 5 or wifi network, this would give the machines some daily usability. Also on the wish list is PXE Boot server access Regards George
Actually I just wiped the SSD once I was done with XP :) The channel focuses on Gaming, I'm not into enterprise networking, PXE and what not. That stuff really doesn't interest me...
Hi I have the same THIN CLIENT T5720 with 256Mb DOM and 256Mb DDR. I managed to install and start WIN98SE VGA and SOUND everything OK except that I have DRIVER problems for the PCI on USB and in DOS games they do not run because it tells me that it does not have enough memory. Can I install 1GB DDR or are there any problems?
Hi! Thanks for the video. I was looking for a cheap solution to run retro DOS games natively and this thin client sounds like it fits the bill perfectly. I found one for about €18 which is currently still on its way to me. I was wondering if the expansion is actually necessary. Can't you just leave the case open and just use a PCI riser?
Yup, that will work just fine. You can also cut out a slit and use a PCI riser cable and ghetto mount the PCI card somehow onto the case. I'm working on something like that for a future video. Note that after having used the unit a bit more, it's picky with sound cards, especially with DOS compatibility. The one that worked the best for me is the Yamaha WaveForce 192XG.
@@philscomputerlab I have considered getting a full set including the expansion from the eBay seller you linked too, but shipping to Germany is extremely expensive, so "ghetto mounting" sounds like the way to go. I also hope that the integrated soundcard works with the kind of games I want to play on that machine.
@@MichaelWolfStargazer Michael Wolf I know exactly what you mean! For me it's the other way round. You Germans have nice Fujitsu Thin Clients, but shipping to Australia kills it for me :( What games do you want to play? The integrated sound card works 100% for Windows games, and has partial support for DOS when run in DOS prompt. Sometimes it doesn't work at all, sometimes only FX, sometimes only music.
@@philscomputerlab At the moment I plan to play some of the older Ultima games, and perhaps a few other CRPGs from the time. I've considered using it for Sierra and Lucasarts adventures as well, but I guess these play way better on my main PC using ScummVM. By the way, can you recommend any of the Fujitsu Thin Clients? I have noticed that they are abundantly available on eBay but I wasn't sure if they were suited for retro gaming purposes.
@@MichaelWolfStargazer I see. Be aware that the slowest you can get these is ~ 386 DX level. Just keep that in mind with very old games. I'm not up to date with the Fujitsu stuff, as I'm priced out. I did contact a few German eBay sellers, but they don't seem interested to work together, so there isn't much I can do. I've been buying some other HP models locally though :)
I want to know if there's a thin client that can be setup with DOS and EMM386 to have a large amount of Expanded Memory System for running old software that cannot use eXtended Memory System.
Are there any of these types of machines that have both good DOS and Windows 98 compatibility that have two PCI cards so you don't have to choose between decent DOS audio and decent Windows graphics?
Some earlier released machines have a PCI/ISA combination (e.g. Neoware Eon), I don't know if you can use both at the same time though. I've also read that some of the older thin client models (
I see it the other way round, the integrated graphics is often sufficient, so I'd rather go with that and use a PCI sound card. Unless the integrated audio solution is something from ESS or Yamaha, it's not going to be that great.
@@philscomputerlab Do you remember if this SIS chip has the scrolling issue in dos games or not? I know all VIA integrated video chips have problems there (you also show it in later thin client videos running Gods under dos). Commander Keen is one of my favorites so that would really be a deal breaker for me (am eyeing one of these machines). Thanks.
It would, but that's gonna be slow : instructions for virtualization didn't exist yet. By the way no need for linux, there are some Windows 98 compatible virtualization software :^) (I managed to run XP under Windows 98SE XD)
Okay, just a quick FYI based on my experiences with this and other HP thin clients: a) That BIOS is rather limited, and if you work with one of the usual KTC FC1307A based SD-to-IDE44 adapters, you might run into situations where the machine will seemingly lock up right after the "Updating ESCD....Success" screen (because the SD card does not play well with the SiS Southbridge). The trick is to boot into USB, do the install and let the machine sort itself out. As long as it writes a legit boot sector It'll boot properly afterwards. b) In Windows 98, USB2 support is a little dicey - for some reason device manager flags an error message on the USB controller. I am not sure if USB2 native drivers exist for the SiS741cx chipset. Technically the USB2 native MTD driver will patch over that, but my experience is that it's a little bit...dicey. c) The Athlon XP-m (Geode NX1500) does not support SSE2/NX, which means that even within Windows XP, certain apps will simply not work. The latest Chromium builds for XP or the last XP-kosher Firefox version (49?) will not run, and considering the wholesale retirement of TLS 1.0/SSL versions below 3, MSIE8 will not work on XP as well. You'll need Firefox ESR 45.0.9. That being said, it's no slouch. When combined with a solid PCI card (Jaton GeForce 6200/128MB) it can be used to run UT2003 at around 50 fps in 1024x768 mode, all maxed out. d) If your objective is old school XP games but need somethinng a little beefier, gun for an HP gt7725 PLUS with the PCIe expansion kit. If it's old school DOS, gun for an old NLynx Minit 6700 (a Relisys RT2005CE clone) with a SiS550 SoC - that comes with a PCI slot that you can slap a Yamaha OPL3 clone on.
The strength of this machine is really Windows 98 and DOS. a) you must run fdisk/mbr on all factory new flash cards. b) Install USB 2.0 drivers from SIS c) yea not much can be done d) for XP gaming I really like the t610 plus or t620 plus
Well, kinda. The Geode is still a little too fast for stuff like Falcon 3.0 (but good for 4.0), and there's only so much you can do messing with the cache and multipler, but for the late Win98SE/early XP stuff, it hits the mark - I think of it as more like bringing back the old Barton K7s (an otherwise excellent chip) to a compact form factor acceptable to modernity - it's really too bad that the core does not do SSE2 or NX - it kinda limits the stuff you can do (that 1GB max RAM limit doesn't help either). Still, it turns in a surprisingly competent performance for stuff like Unreal Tournament 2004 and Battlefield 2. Actually, you should also take a look at a Lenovo Thinkpad X31/32 (X31 comes with the Banias Pentium M, while the X32 has the Dothan - that has NX and PAE enabled for better longevity) Those are like the portable version of this machine. It's small, light, comes with a Radeon M6 (so early XP titles should be fine), can be upgraded to 2GB RAM max, decent for Win98/XP, and with the ThinkPad Dock 2 (that will allow you to toss the GeForce 6200 PCI on), it gives you a surprising amount of flexibility as well. As for the t610/620? Hmmm, the t620 Plus is a good one (PCIe x4 slot built-in), but the t730 is even better as a casual gamer machine. That can still be relevant as an HTPC for most folks out there.
@@philscomputerlab Thanks for answering! I have another question - how do I install that NUSB to the PC, or connect it to the internet through ethernet? I can't use any flash drives to add drivers
@@RyanAvx NUSB is for Windows 98, do you really want to access the Internet? Maybe start with XP? Small flash drives are mapped to physical drives through the BIOS. So you can boot into DOS and the USB should be able to be partitioned and formatted. Then copy the driver onto there. Or if you have a USB floppy drive, you can access that from DOS as well through A:
@@philscomputerlab Thank you for replying! I don't suppose you could do a quick tutorial, or link me on how to partition the flash drive through bios, and get the drivers active, please?
@@philscomputerlab Hi Phil! I finally got it working, it was easy to copy it over from DOS, but I can't get the sound to work, even after installing the drivers. Even system sounds aren't coming through, and there's no audio device recognized by the system. Any ideas?
Why are you using Floppy Disks? They can fail very easily : P I recommend you to use Floppy Drive Emulator, which is an peace of hardware that allows you to use your USB pendrive as an storage device for 90+ virtual floppy drives. I use this in my Windows XP pc and it never failed me
90 virtual floppy - you mush be using the same aftermarket software that did not come with the Gotek that i use, i rather have 90 working properly than the hit and miss 999, a shame the entire USB space it take up it really wastes 4 to 16GB sticks
Would GhostBSD Latest version+Wine64,Winetricks64 and zip.dll have been better saying that Windows XP Pro is no longer supported and would be very sluggish running Windows 7,Windows 8 or Windows 10.
@DAVID GREGORY KERR, The idea isn't to try and use these as your main computer for everyday tasks like browsing the web, they're for retro PC gaming/program use. The fact that Microsoft no longer supports Windows 98 or XP is irrelevant, as we're not going to be doing any sort of task on these that requires up-to-date security patches, like online banking. Using a modern OS like GhostBSD or a Linux distro would be pointless on older hardware, since you'll be emulating everything through WINE. May as well use modern hardware for that, especially seeing as WINE adds extra performance overhead.
Hi, this is not meant for a complete windows machine at home or work, you could but dont expect much, for the $35 USD, you are better of with a used prebuilt Dell core2 duo or better with 4g ram, that would run win 7 to 10 32bit fine, or Linux Mint would scream. Win XP and older are not supported, by that i mean microsoft does not do any new updates, if you dont use the internet much it is not a problem, In reality, you install the OS for the type of software you need, then use the built in lan card at home to conenct to other machines to pick up files, for example i use my desktop or laptop to pick up files and drivers, and store them in a shared folder, my Win 98 and Win XP machines can see the shares and use the file. Occasionally i do a quick google or something, Win 98 machine would spend 1% of its time on the net, it is very slow and most pages will not load up due to the more modern web pages suing flash or newer scripts. The Win XP machine surprisingly spends 5% of its time on the net and has about a 1 in 3 change of working properly, youtube streaming is basically non existent in Win 95/98 and very slow and jerky on the XP, you are better using say VLC and tag the remote files url and stream it into VLC. But like anything use the tool for what it was designed for, Dos / Win 95 / 98 on the older machine, and the Win XP has more modern ( 90's to early Y2k ) games, remember win XP is not dos based so any older games that drop to dos and run sound will be jerky as XP does not have native dos sound support, it emulates it but is very jerky.
Another question for you if you don't mind -- the output is VGA but my monitor is only HDMI and displayport. I'm not finding a VGA to HDMI adapter/signal convertor that will to a resolution under 600 so that I can go into the BIOS and then boot the machine. After it posts, the screen goes blank, assuming from out of sync. Do you have any suggestions? edit: I ended up purchasing an ASUS VA32A. I couldn't find a VGA to HDMI or VGA to DVI adapter that would support DOS mode of 700*400. And this monitor has native VGA and supports DOS mode as referenced in it's manual. The now spare monitor will just go to my wife. LOL
This video inspired me to get one. Paid £23.95GBP on ebay. It arrived today but appears to have problems. No video, no post beeps, no disk activity light, just a power light. Tried changing the RAM and battery. Unless anyone has any ideas I think I will be returning it.
You probably don’t have it still then but for anyone else having this issue, try switching the battery for a new one. My unit had the same issue with no beeps and a solid power led.
@@philscomputerlab I was able to get the NX 1750+ working. It runs at 1400mhz. Installed a startech cooler. What video card do you think would be the best for the system? The 6200? I currently have a MX 440 installed. I have a 12v 12.5a power supply. I also have a 2400+ on the way to see if it will work.
I'm unable to get sound working in DOS games, however I have sound in Windows 98 SE. Can you please help me to solve this puzzle out? p.s. I run games right from the Windows
@@philscomputerlab will send a link to the one i am using and the autoexec..give me a second,i'll also add mplayer dos i also have this HP t5720 slim one
there are many programs to emulate dos based games and lowering the cpu frequency for that , so why having two computers if a more powerfull one can do more thinks ?
@@alessioscandy Hmm at least my USB optical drive does not have line-out, but if you have one that does, yea it should playback audio, I don't see how it wouldn't.
After your video I got one of them too for quite cheap. But just now, while looking through Ebay, I came across them again and there are crazy fuckers wanting up to 500 EUR for them, advertising them as DOS gaming machines... While there are far cheaper ones, with 92.44 EUR at the cheapest they are still a multiple of what they were before. As soon as greedy people think they can rip others off, prices will skyrocket... I don't know if people are really buying them for these prices as some for 490 EUR state 20 sold or if they were sold when they were still cheap.
@@philscomputerlab I looked through one of the 490 EUR sellers' reviews and didn't see any sold for this price but multiple sold for around a 100 EUR a pop. Just used advanced search and what I found funny was, that there was a pack of 10 t5720 sold for 2000 EUR but also a pack of 5 sold for 50 EUR. So people are buying at both ends of the price spectrum. Never really thought about using advanced search to compare prices. Might be helpful for buying Big Box games where you don't have selling history sites like for console games.
@@moomah5929 Hmm well consider me guilty then. When I started checking these computers out, they struggled to sell them and prices where really cheap. Some I bought for around $10 here in Australia.
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Oh wow I have this same unit collecting dust in the shed, but without the riser. My weekend plans are now made. Love the video.
Just word of caution for those who want to buy a thin client for DOS/Retro gaming, I own a t5720 and it does not have a -12V supply for the PCI slot, so some sound card like the SBLive that uses the -12v rail for the amplifier circuit will not work unless you manually supply the -12V using a DC-DC buck boost converter, I used a generic one with -12V output and built a custom PCI riser, using Pin 62(Side A or B) for 5V input and connect the -12v output to Pin 1 on side B, which is the side with all the component.
With the custom converter, I was able to get the SB0100 (SB Live 5.1) to work perfectly in this machine, before I was only able to get it recognized in Windows but does not output any sound.
Search for "PCI Riser Card capacitors " and you should find a forum thread on Vogons that describes the issue.
Warms my heart to see these kind of videos, really takes me back to some good days of gaming.
Thanks!
You make me want to buy one of those small, energy efficient mini PCs, especially for DOS. Phil's Lab is the best lab.
This channel is costing me a fortune.
Haha, yea I can see that :D
$70 here already. Thankfully I just charge it to PayPal credit...
This small pc perfect playing games from 1997 - 2000.
1Ghz enough to run Diablo 2.
All time best pc games!
rofl im playing that right now
Ok, I dig those nice toolkit closeup shots and action shots.
thats a good loking screwdriver set
Haha, shameless plug :D
I just bought this unit, for $125!!!! Every time you review something it goes up in price.
Oh man that's a lot of money...
I got this machine in 2019 after watching this video and it's pretty much a DOS/Early Windows gamer's dream machine in the modern era. As per the video description I got the WaveForce YMF724 which is indeed the perfect card for this machine as my YMF 744 refused to work at all.
I ran into 2 issues with this machine and I'll provide a solution for those running into the same issues as myself to save you from a lot of frustration:
1. The VxD Yamaha Windows driver, while providing the best DOS compatibility under Windows, would freeze and BSOD my machine upon installing the "YAMAHA Legacy Sound" driver. This was due to an IRQ conflict as no resources were available. This can be fixed by entering the BIOS and disabling everything and just using PS/2 keyboard and mouse which was not ideal for me. The best fix I found for this problem was installing WDM drivers. Now this introduces another issue in which you won't be able to get FM synthesis in DOS under Windows which I can live with as I use Phil's 'MS-DOS Mode Super Easy' kit to boot into real DOS to play my DOS games. If your DOS game uses CD audio then you're in luck because the WDM drivers are 100% compatible so you'll hear the CD audio and the proper sound effects under Windows. I tried this with WWF In Your House and it works perfectly.
2. In real DOS mode, YMFDOS drivers would not detect my sound card on "DMA Channel 1" and the setupds utility would throw this error at me. Sounds in most games would still work just fine but some games would freeze the machine and some games wouldn't recognize the sound card at all. The fix, which I finally found after 2 years of owning this machine, is that there's a version of the YMFDOS utility on the VOGONS forum for late SiS motherboards and everything works absolutely perfectly after using that setup utility.
TL;DR = You're probably going to have to perform some tweaks in order to get things working properly on this machine but once you do, this will quite possibly be the best Win9x/DOS machine in your collection that you could game on.
Hey, kinda random, not sure if you're going to see this.
I got a WaveForce to use with my t5720 after having severe issues with a YMF744 and not being able to get sound in DOS with a SOLO-1 (I'm using the cards in other systems now).
Could you post a link to the vogons post where you found working drivers? It would be very helpful.
Thanks!
@@Game__Boy I’ll look for it and post the link right here!
@@Game__Boy unfortunately i can't find that thread at all strangely enough. i'll upload it and post the link here for anyone that's interested when i get around to it.
@@ChungusKhann Cool, thanks for looking into it at least.
Can you run heavy gear and mechwarrior 2?
yes some more stuff to watch, keep on going phil
Back then, I remember trying to play NFS Underground on that SIS Mirage graphics.
It didnt ended well. Even using ddr400 memory, after some time playing, the computer *always* BSODed.
You is here? oh man is very cool!
@ yeah, sure.
Always here bro.
Hugs. Come to brasiu
Hi Phil..
this one very good retro video you make....👍
Really like these videos. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you for the benchmark comparison against the other thin clients! :)
Yea it makes for a good overview.
I got contacted and some people might be experiencing an issue with this Thin Client and the YMF744 Sound Card shown in the video. The card worked fine for me when I did the review, but when using it again I got audible interference. I tried another card, a Yamaha WaveForce 192XG, and this one worked fine. Another card that worked is a Terratec ESS Solo-1.
got a dma-error in setupds - i have two t5720 and both have the same problem - dos622 and dos71(w98se bootdisc version)
Sorry to hear that. Do you get sound with the sound card in Windows 98 or XP?
will check w98se and wxp later - can u upload the drivers for the thinclient to your homepage or a gdrive please ?
@@bjornstorbeck98 I didn't keep any of that. Drivers are on the SIS website, so just grab them from there. XP will find most inbuilt.
It seems you definitely need to use Windows 98 to set the correct DMA and IRQ. For some reason it uses DMA 3 out of the box. Also, if you get a DMA error, just ignore it and exit without saving. Then run dsdma and see if it works in games.
This is a nice thin client. A Voodoo PCI card would do nicely. If you can find a thin client or a SFF with two PCI slots, that might be very fun to play with.
great video. it is a cool idea for a project. thin clients always got that aura of mistery to me. i never see one in execution. but for the most reminds me of those old IBM PS2 computers. and also those computers with reduce form factor. i wonder if the inverse could be done, using an old computer as a thin client?
An Athlon XP 2500 fits in there and runs. (HOT) So keep it cool and feed with at least a 4 amp 12 volt supply.
The thing I hate the most about Retro PCs is the size (relative to the Performance) and the Noise.
And since I would never have to Upgrade, a Thin Client is pretty much perfect for me :^)
After watching this video I coudn't resist and just bought one for 12 euro... 17 euro ($20) with shipping. :D
Have fun :D
$35 is great, but $20 shipping within the US is a hard pill to swallow.
All problems you have with sound in Windows 98 is because of WDM drivers, in order to install VXD drivers you must run the SiS 7012 audio driver installer with "Setup.exe -vxd", or install the VXD drivers manually.
Great tip, thank you!!!
Does this work for the no sound issue in DOS games when ran through windows?
@@RyanAvx I have not tested it extensively, but i tried years ago and dos games were sounding as they sould. But take in mind there will always be problematic games.
How to use this command?
@@3dhYT via the command prompt or making a link to the setup.exe and editing it
My first PC was a Black IBM aptiva p3 with ibm keyboard and crt. I believe it had a integrated tnt2 riva. Loved me some dark reign and gothic.
I love Gothic.
Hello, great video,what do you thing about Neoware CA2 thin client for a project similar than this?
I really like this machine. It looks slick, both on the inside and outside, and has pretty much everything required.
Beautiful passive cooling solution by the way, that's just awesome.
If I find one in EU somewhere I'd probably buy one right away. =)
I need the riser for my t5720
Oooh that same lovely SiS Mirage 1 chipset as my hybrid system. So I know everything bar the soundcard will be okay.... terrible VESA support on the graphics chip though (but just the same as later Radeon 9xxx/X cards).
Oh I take that back, that's actually a VIA 7012 - it has a form of DOS compatibility.
These mirage chipsets... They really show its age
Yea I did show Doom and Duke Nukem 3D. It's not perfect, but some games will work. PCI sound card is perfect though :)
I Dig it! Team Alpha Gaming Certified ;)
I noticed this machine has the SiS 7012 integrated audio solution. I have a machine with SiS 7018 audio and it has real mode DOS drivers which are not that bad (the 30kb conventional memory footprint being their worst drawback) featuring SB16 and General Midi compatibility. Does the SiS 7012 have those as well?
I couldn't find anything when I looked.
The SiS 7018 are based of the Trident 4DWave PCI sound chip and it's only available in some of SiS' single chip chipset solutions, the 730 and 630 series. Unfortunately many SiS 730/630 motherboards came with a CMI 8738 PCI sound chip instead of the external codec chip required for the SiS 7018. You can actually run the 7018 without a TSR but you don't get any GM and you need to set the sample rate manually with an utility.
Oh, my bad, the SiS 7018 is different beast (and quite interesting for an integrated sound card). And I failed to notice before that your DXDIAG screenshot clearly shows you're using WDM drivers, which strikes me as odd, since all WDM drivers I've ever seen just use Win98's built in SBEMUL.sys for DOS sound support, which usually has decent compatibility, aside from not having any kind of OPL3 emulation. If you still have the machine set up you could try using Win95's VXD drivers. At least for the SiS 7018 the WDM drivers were crap.
So, Alex, are you saying win95 should have better DOS sound support? I want to avoid installing any additional cards, and to have decent DOS gaming on t5720
Noob video making question: How do you do those frame rate comparisons?
Also great video, I love seeing what those machines are capable of!
Hi I Will wait for Phil to answer properly, but in the mean time, his web page has dos testing tools all available in a single download , there was a brief screen shot of the dos batch options.
For windows and more modern games, some games have a timed demo with statistics, for others, you can use a program called Fraps, do a search they have their own web page
@@georgemaragos2378 Thanks! I'll check it out!
After all I'm used to Fraps but more tools would be nice.
Fix for the AOPEN AW744-L2 can be found on vogons in this thread: www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=62652#p717239
It ended up being a problem with noise on the PCI bus. Adding capacitors to the PCI riser card is what fixes it.
I bought the exactly same one.. just because of this video. Thanks. Good work. But tell me: I wanted to put dos, w95, w98 and xp...all together. Which mSata Flash and which ram would you reccommend? I was thinking maybe the same 64gb and 1gb ddr you use for XP. Would be ok? And Sound card?
Those look so nice. Install Lakka TV, fit that PC to TV table and you are ready to go
Hmm do you reckon it could handle Lakka?
Yes, i'd say test if it boots up. It should boot up as it's just Linux distro. If the PC can run 98SE then it should run Lakka aswell with GeForce 6200
It depends on what's underneath the hood of Lakka and which features the CPU has. Pentium III and certain Pentium M won't boot a current Linux at all. There were workarounds sometime ago, but I don't know if those still work on current Linux.
PhilsComputerLab cant you use pci lane splitter to have both a video car and a sound card in windows xp or windows 98? and how well will windows 3.1 run on this?
Not sure!
maybe you need some extender like those in pciE, maybe in aliexpress you could find something
Great video, could you please share the link of adpter SSD 64GB and software used to install ?
Hey Phil, love your videos. You have a recommendation for the best gaming video card for this machine running XP home edition? I put a Riva TNT2 M64 in it and it was a dog. Onboard graphics were faster. LOL
Hi Phil - Great video I've just bought a 5720 To use as a mini Windows 98 Gaming machine. Did you happen to try nGlide with the onboard SIS Video card?
I didn't. Do let us know how it performs!
Hi Phil - Got my hands on thr T5720. nGlide doesn't work (Probably as it's reliant on a DX9 Video card). However I've had excellent results with an old release of dgVoodoo which seems to play DOS And Windows Glide games very nicely - I think it is for DirectX7 So perfect for this setup
I've been looking for the PCI expansion for about 2 years. But i refuse to pay £100+ for a piece of plastic and a pci riser card. (location UK)
I also got another brand PCI riser card. Still waiting on the unit (the regular 5720 without expansion) and that card. If someone knows of a PCI riser card that works or know where the original part can be purchased for a reasonable price please let me know!
my favourite part is when you get out THE SCREWDRIVER. with surgical precision of course. my main question is: will this 35 $ board run longer than 2 years?
I agree, the screwdriver reveal was very slick, nice editing phil XD
all his videos are a setup for THE SCREWDRIVER transition. its his masterpiece. accountability equals trust.
So I basically bought everything you did in this video, but the compact flash version. How do you have the ide cable ran? I'm worried about it melting from being on top of the heatsink or maybe it won't get hot enough to do any damage.
Also, the vendor on ebay sold me one that looks like it needs more work. I ordered another pci riser as mine looks like it was bathed in cola. Also, did you recap yours? The side of mine is so dusty I can't really tell if it's needed yet.
It won't get hot enough to melt, but if you're worried, you can put something protective in-between.
Love your review
What about UniATA drivers on Windows XP for PATA SSDs? You should look into it, they work pretty well!
2:00 montage! The motherboard's form factor resembles Mini-ITX, which a lot of older thin clients adopted. Interesting upgraded example here: qubeserver.com/T5720/Gallery.html
I actually tested this, the screws line up, but the board is deeper, so it wouldn't fit in my case. Worse is the PCI slot, it's just a bit off to the side
i have the same model but without pci slot iirc
Great Video. Will this work with the HP T5740?
2:00 PhilsComputerASMRLab
that flash cable and storage adapter are you using
Hey Phil, are we able to get the onboard Ethernet device on this machine to work under DOS in a similar way to the PCI devices you usually install in retro PCs?
I tested Ethernet with Windows XP and Windows 98!
What not test it with VooDoo?
The link to the PCI Expansion box goes to one for the t5730.. NOT the T5720 unit!! There DIFFRENT units!
Just wonder which thin client will be the best with voodoo 1 or voodoo 2 combination
I was check these thin client videos of yours again and was trying to find the playlist but I couldn't find it. Did you remove the playlist for the Thin Client vids?
Yes you are right! I cleaned up then page and reorganised the playlists. I'll create one for thin clients again soon!
@@philscomputerlab Nice I'll be waiting for it to be back.
I was searching for your thin client videos playlist because I'm looking into getting some sort of low power computer for running Raspotify (Spotify Connect server). Since I have DDR2 laptop memory unused I was checking if any of the thin clients you featured used DDR2, but seems like more of the ones you featured were DDR3.
I'll have to check if I overlooks any of your thin client videos particularly the non HP ones and maybe look into getting a Windows XP-Vista era laptop that has a Core 2 Duo.
th-cam.com/play/PL5T8bmLxd_T2_rYmojZAzvkKsVBc3Atdg.html
Did you use the DSDMA TSR for your Yamaha card? I ask because the SiS 962 southbridge can run the card in DDMA mode with a modified SETUPDS but I don't have any working boards with the SiS 963 southbridge to test with. At least the SiS 964 is a no go with DDMA and requires the DSDMA TSR to work.
Yea I did! I do remember those modified files, something to check out the next time :)
Kamerat Just a quick update. Firstly, that AOpen card developed some interference issues. I didn't have them when producing the video, but after a few reports I setup the machine again, and now I'm hearing it also. So I swapped it out for a WaveForce, and that one sounds clear. I got around to trying that SIS modified driver, and yup, it works great. Doesn't need EMS and tested it with Turrican II, so that's pretty sweet. I think SIS chipsets will become in demand soon...
You had me looking at these from a previous video, you finally convinced me to order one :) My question now though is: are there adapters to interface a USB joystick with a 15-pin joystick port on a DOS-compatible sound card? (Or maybe I need to DIY something with a USB-host-capable microcontroller and PWM outputs)
USB joystick goes into the USB port!
PhilsComputerLab for DOS too? Are there USB joystick drivers?
No, they won't work in DOS, but in Windows 98 SE they will work just fine.
This machine will be DOS only. I'll see if I can hack together an interface to go from a USB HID joystick to analog (PWM)/digital out to the gameport. Experiment time! :)
Hello, i want to buid a new retro pc for xp and w98 and i have 2 options now, a hp t610 (dual Core amd and onboard Radeon hd6320 graphics) and a hp t5740 plus (intel atom n280), both for 30€ shipped, which Noe do you recomend me? Can the hd 6320 Run basic xp games? Thank you, awsome Chanel
managed to grab one in nearly mint condition for really cheap, but finding the expansion module that won't cost an arm and leg will take some time.
Yea they aren't easy to find. That's what's good about the listing from Richard, it comes with the expansion module.
I think I'll try to contact him, maybe he'd be willing to sell just the module for a reduced price (the shipping is quite the dealbreaker for anyone from EU).
Phil have you ever thought about transferring the innards of a thin client to a more sizable PC Case? Would probably make for a nice video...
At that point you might as well just get a cheap ATX board with VIA chipset and you've got something much better.
Man, the Pentium 4 core Cedar mill 661 is the last Pentum 4 manufactured !?
Sorry what are you asking? I'm confused.
@@philscomputerlab Ops
Sorry it is the smartphone keyboard that bothered me,
I want to know if p4 cedar mill 3.
6 ghz model 661 is the last one made. If not, what is the last P4?
Not sure, you can look on Wikipedia, there are lists for the processors.
thanks man!
Now I have a T5720 .. but running from USB .. and it has a lot of sector not found issues .. no idea what to do. Also tried a Compact Flash connected thru CF adapter to IDE .. not even able to see the CF .. so I presume I need to unlock something. ?!?
Hi All, Another nice video Phil.
Did you use 2 separate drives for each OS ???
Typically in these senarios i make a dos boot disk and make a dos 6.22 partition 2G max, and install dos games. From There i install XP on a new partition and when it is all over i have the multi boot menu.
You can also install 98 this way first and then XP
It is good to see 98 getting a modern machine to run on and often 512m ram is the limit for Win98, the patches dont always work( i think 1 in 7 machines i tried ).
Getting XP running on these is simple and useful, full size desktops and hardward pre 2000 is getting hard to find in 100% working condition and eventually i will come across a good machine and wait for the failed components to appear ( bad caps )
Are you able to do a series on these machines as a stand alone early games machine, then be able to use them as a thin client to a existing Win 7 to Win 10 machine on a cat 5 or wifi network, this would give the machines some daily usability.
Also on the wish list is PXE Boot server access
Regards
George
Actually I just wiped the SSD once I was done with XP :) The channel focuses on Gaming, I'm not into enterprise networking, PXE and what not. That stuff really doesn't interest me...
Hey Phil, What is the fastest card that will work with a 50w power supply on this client ?
Is it necessary to protect the SD adapter from touching other components inside the case or is it safe to leave somewhat loose?
Yes because it can short out something if you're unlucky.
Fujitsu Futro S400 has the same specs as this one and sometimes can be found cheaper...
Not in Australia it seems. And shipping from Germany is rip off.
I cant find any PCI expansion case on ebay (Germany). Where did you find that?
Link is in the description!
Hi I have the same THIN CLIENT T5720 with 256Mb DOM and 256Mb DDR. I managed to install and start WIN98SE VGA and SOUND everything OK except that I have DRIVER problems for the PCI on USB and in DOS games they do not run because it tells me that it does not have enough memory. Can I install 1GB DDR or are there any problems?
5:18 how did you get this flash utility? I can't find anything for updating bios of t5720 :/
HP directly has the BIOS updates, you get them from the HP support site!
Trying to do this upgrade on my working HP5720 Thin Client. But the BIOS won't recognize the 64GB msata ssd. Anybody know why?
Hi! Thanks for the video. I was looking for a cheap solution to run retro DOS games natively and this thin client sounds like it fits the bill perfectly. I found one for about €18 which is currently still on its way to me. I was wondering if the expansion is actually necessary. Can't you just leave the case open and just use a PCI riser?
Yup, that will work just fine. You can also cut out a slit and use a PCI riser cable and ghetto mount the PCI card somehow onto the case. I'm working on something like that for a future video. Note that after having used the unit a bit more, it's picky with sound cards, especially with DOS compatibility. The one that worked the best for me is the Yamaha WaveForce 192XG.
@@philscomputerlab I have considered getting a full set including the expansion from the eBay seller you linked too, but shipping to Germany is extremely expensive, so "ghetto mounting" sounds like the way to go. I also hope that the integrated soundcard works with the kind of games I want to play on that machine.
@@MichaelWolfStargazer Michael Wolf I know exactly what you mean! For me it's the other way round. You Germans have nice Fujitsu Thin Clients, but shipping to Australia kills it for me :( What games do you want to play? The integrated sound card works 100% for Windows games, and has partial support for DOS when run in DOS prompt. Sometimes it doesn't work at all, sometimes only FX, sometimes only music.
@@philscomputerlab At the moment I plan to play some of the older Ultima games, and perhaps a few other CRPGs from the time. I've considered using it for Sierra and Lucasarts adventures as well, but I guess these play way better on my main PC using ScummVM. By the way, can you recommend any of the Fujitsu Thin Clients? I have noticed that they are abundantly available on eBay but I wasn't sure if they were suited for retro gaming purposes.
@@MichaelWolfStargazer I see. Be aware that the slowest you can get these is ~ 386 DX level. Just keep that in mind with very old games. I'm not up to date with the Fujitsu stuff, as I'm priced out. I did contact a few German eBay sellers, but they don't seem interested to work together, so there isn't much I can do. I've been buying some other HP models locally though :)
Seems like I was just too late in the game!
Where can I find a Bios update for a T610?
Try increasing the RAM and run Lubuntu on it and try modern web browsing on this..
I don't sure about that
I tried, the CPU is too slow
I want to know if there's a thin client that can be setup with DOS and EMM386 to have a large amount of Expanded Memory System for running old software that cannot use eXtended Memory System.
ok this is epic
Would you use a flash upgrade via replacing the DOM module or use a CF card with adapter instead?
CF works well for DOS, but for windows a Dom or SSD is better.
@@philscomputerlab Many thanks! I plan to use it mainly for Windows 98 and Need for speed 3 :) I have 1 GB of DOM, but will go for 16GB
I need drivers for Windows XP and a Replacement Top Cover for my T5720
Are there any of these types of machines that have both good DOS and Windows 98 compatibility that have two PCI cards so you don't have to choose between decent DOS audio and decent Windows graphics?
Some earlier released machines have a PCI/ISA combination (e.g. Neoware Eon), I don't know if you can use both at the same time though. I've also read that some of the older thin client models (
I see it the other way round, the integrated graphics is often sufficient, so I'd rather go with that and use a PCI sound card. Unless the integrated audio solution is something from ESS or Yamaha, it's not going to be that great.
I haven't seen such a machine yet.
@@philscomputerlab Do you remember if this SIS chip has the scrolling issue in dos games or not? I know all VIA integrated video chips have problems there (you also show it in later thin client videos running Gods under dos). Commander Keen is one of my favorites so that would really be a deal breaker for me (am eyeing one of these machines). Thanks.
@@ors7503 Not sure 😐
What about running Linux, then running Windows and DOS in a virtual machine? Would that work on a PC that old.
It would, but that's gonna be slow : instructions for virtualization didn't exist yet.
By the way no need for linux, there are some Windows 98 compatible virtualization software :^) (I managed to run XP under Windows 98SE XD)
oh yay
On the HP t5545, where do I fiind the Win 98 drivers for chipsets, graphics and sound?
Okay, just a quick FYI based on my experiences with this and other HP thin clients:
a) That BIOS is rather limited, and if you work with one of the usual KTC FC1307A based SD-to-IDE44 adapters, you might run into situations where the machine will seemingly lock up right after the "Updating ESCD....Success" screen (because the SD card does not play well with the SiS Southbridge). The trick is to boot into USB, do the install and let the machine sort itself out. As long as it writes a legit boot sector It'll boot properly afterwards.
b) In Windows 98, USB2 support is a little dicey - for some reason device manager flags an error message on the USB controller. I am not sure if USB2 native drivers exist for the SiS741cx chipset. Technically the USB2 native MTD driver will patch over that, but my experience is that it's a little bit...dicey.
c) The Athlon XP-m (Geode NX1500) does not support SSE2/NX, which means that even within Windows XP, certain apps will simply not work. The latest Chromium builds for XP or the last XP-kosher Firefox version (49?) will not run, and considering the wholesale retirement of TLS 1.0/SSL versions below 3, MSIE8 will not work on XP as well. You'll need Firefox ESR 45.0.9. That being said, it's no slouch. When combined with a solid PCI card (Jaton GeForce 6200/128MB) it can be used to run UT2003 at around 50 fps in 1024x768 mode, all maxed out.
d) If your objective is old school XP games but need somethinng a little beefier, gun for an HP gt7725 PLUS with the PCIe expansion kit. If it's old school DOS, gun for an old NLynx Minit 6700 (a Relisys RT2005CE clone) with a SiS550 SoC - that comes with a PCI slot that you can slap a Yamaha OPL3 clone on.
The strength of this machine is really Windows 98 and DOS. a) you must run fdisk/mbr on all factory new flash cards. b) Install USB 2.0 drivers from SIS c) yea not much can be done d) for XP gaming I really like the t610 plus or t620 plus
Well, kinda. The Geode is still a little too fast for stuff like Falcon 3.0 (but good for 4.0), and there's only so much you can do messing with the cache and multipler, but for the late Win98SE/early XP stuff, it hits the mark - I think of it as more like bringing back the old Barton K7s (an otherwise excellent chip) to a compact form factor acceptable to modernity - it's really too bad that the core does not do SSE2 or NX - it kinda limits the stuff you can do (that 1GB max RAM limit doesn't help either). Still, it turns in a surprisingly competent performance for stuff like Unreal Tournament 2004 and Battlefield 2.
Actually, you should also take a look at a Lenovo Thinkpad X31/32 (X31 comes with the Banias Pentium M, while the X32 has the Dothan - that has NX and PAE enabled for better longevity) Those are like the portable version of this machine. It's small, light, comes with a Radeon M6 (so early XP titles should be fine), can be upgraded to 2GB RAM max, decent for Win98/XP, and with the ThinkPad Dock 2 (that will allow you to toss the GeForce 6200 PCI on), it gives you a surprising amount of flexibility as well.
As for the t610/620? Hmmm, the t620 Plus is a good one (PCIe x4 slot built-in), but the t730 is even better as a casual gamer machine. That can still be relevant as an HTPC for most folks out there.
Yea I don't do notebooks, they are not my thing. The t620 is quite affordable, the t730 not so much, although the specifications look really nice.
I don't know how you mount an SSD / 2.5" drive while also running a sound card :(
You might have to go with something smaller like SD card, mSATA or M.2 Adapter. Or get a larger DOM / Flash module.
All of a sudden everyone is using that screwdriver kit, is Xiaomi sponsoring people :P the "wiha" set
Nah, I saw it on BangGood site and asked for a review unit.
Sweet! looking forward to a review of the set then ! , looks quite premium!
@@sasanmottaghipour876 LOL that was the review :) It works fine.
LOL
How did you mount the m-sata ssd into the machine? Did you just have it lying around inside?
Yea with some tape :)
@@philscomputerlab Thanks for answering! I have another question - how do I install that NUSB to the PC, or connect it to the internet through ethernet? I can't use any flash drives to add drivers
@@RyanAvx NUSB is for Windows 98, do you really want to access the Internet? Maybe start with XP? Small flash drives are mapped to physical drives through the BIOS. So you can boot into DOS and the USB should be able to be partitioned and formatted. Then copy the driver onto there. Or if you have a USB floppy drive, you can access that from DOS as well through A:
@@philscomputerlab Thank you for replying! I don't suppose you could do a quick tutorial, or link me on how to partition the flash drive through bios, and get the drivers active, please?
@@philscomputerlab Hi Phil! I finally got it working, it was easy to copy it over from DOS, but I can't get the sound to work, even after installing the drivers. Even system sounds aren't coming through, and there's no audio device recognized by the system. Any ideas?
Why are you using Floppy Disks?
They can fail very easily : P
I recommend you to use Floppy Drive Emulator, which is an peace of hardware that allows you to use your USB pendrive as an storage device for 90+ virtual floppy drives.
I use this in my Windows XP pc and it never failed me
th-cam.com/video/GmtNeYpbGzI/w-d-xo.html
Have not been around here for long huh? Phill was one of the first to feature the Gotek emulators.
90 virtual floppy - you mush be using the same aftermarket software that did not come with the Gotek that i use, i rather have 90 working properly than the hit and miss 999, a shame the entire USB space it take up it really wastes 4 to 16GB sticks
Would GhostBSD Latest version+Wine64,Winetricks64 and zip.dll have been better saying that Windows XP Pro is no longer supported and would be very sluggish running Windows 7,Windows 8 or Windows 10.
I have no idea what you're saying, but Windows XP works just fine on these machines, in fact it's usually the target OS.
@DAVID GREGORY KERR, The idea isn't to try and use these as your main computer for everyday tasks like browsing the web, they're for retro PC gaming/program use. The fact that Microsoft no longer supports Windows 98 or XP is irrelevant, as we're not going to be doing any sort of task on these that requires up-to-date security patches, like online banking.
Using a modern OS like GhostBSD or a Linux distro would be pointless on older hardware, since you'll be emulating everything through WINE. May as well use modern hardware for that, especially seeing as WINE adds extra performance overhead.
Hi, this is not meant for a complete windows machine at home or work, you could but dont expect much, for the $35 USD, you are better of with a used prebuilt Dell core2 duo or better with 4g ram, that would run win 7 to 10 32bit fine, or Linux Mint would scream.
Win XP and older are not supported, by that i mean microsoft does not do any new updates, if you dont use the internet much it is not a problem, In reality, you install the OS for the type of software you need, then use the built in lan card at home to conenct to other machines to pick up files, for example i use my desktop or laptop to pick up files and drivers, and store them in a shared folder, my Win 98 and Win XP machines can see the shares and use the file. Occasionally i do a quick google or something, Win 98 machine would spend 1% of its time on the net, it is very slow and most pages will not load up due to the more modern web pages suing flash or newer scripts. The Win XP machine surprisingly spends 5% of its time on the net and has about a 1 in 3 change of working properly, youtube streaming is basically non existent in Win 95/98 and very slow and jerky on the XP, you are better using say VLC and tag the remote files url and stream it into VLC. But like anything use the tool for what it was designed for, Dos / Win 95 / 98 on the older machine, and the Win XP has more modern ( 90's to early Y2k ) games, remember win XP is not dos based so any older games that drop to dos and run sound will be jerky as XP does not have native dos sound support, it emulates it but is very jerky.
Another question for you if you don't mind -- the output is VGA but my monitor is only HDMI and displayport. I'm not finding a VGA to HDMI adapter/signal convertor that will to a resolution under 600 so that I can go into the BIOS and then boot the machine. After it posts, the screen goes blank, assuming from out of sync. Do you have any suggestions?
edit:
I ended up purchasing an ASUS VA32A. I couldn't find a VGA to HDMI or VGA to DVI adapter that would support DOS mode of 700*400. And this monitor has native VGA and supports DOS mode as referenced in it's manual. The now spare monitor will just go to my wife. LOL
Yea the absence of VGA on modern monitors is something I also noticed lately.
This video inspired me to get one. Paid £23.95GBP on ebay. It arrived today but appears to have problems. No video, no post beeps, no disk activity light, just a power light. Tried changing the RAM and battery. Unless anyone has any ideas I think I will be returning it.
You probably don’t have it still then but for anyone else having this issue, try switching the battery for a new one. My unit had the same issue with no beeps and a solid power led.
Are you going to check out the fujitsu siemens s400?
The steep shipping fees have put me off. And the German sellers are marketing them as Retro PCs with inflated prices...
@@philscomputerlab thanks for the reply. I just got one for $95.
@@philscomputerlab I was able to get the NX 1750+ working. It runs at 1400mhz. Installed a startech cooler. What video card do you think would be the best for the system? The 6200? I currently have a MX 440 installed. I have a 12v 12.5a power supply. I also have a 2400+ on the way to see if it will work.
My 44 pin connection on the motherboard is only 1.8 inch, am I still able to do this?
What do you think about the futro s700 and s900?
Not sure, they are not available here in Australia it seems...
Is there option for increase shared memory for graphic chip? I can't find it in BIOS.
Where can I find a PCI expansion module? I've looked everywhere. I checked the link, but it looks like it's for a t5730.
Yea good luck finding one. They are quite rare.
I'm unable to get sound working in DOS games, however I have sound in Windows 98 SE. Can you please help me to solve this puzzle out? p.s. I run games right from the Windows
use the VIA Dos Sound Driver...no need for a pci dos sound card
works with mplayer dos movie player
and geexbox 1.2.4 works in here grate
Do it!
@@philscomputerlab i already did :)
Well that hasn't worked for me on any of the Thin Clients I tried...
@@philscomputerlab will send a link to the one i am using and the autoexec..give me a second,i'll also add mplayer dos
i also have this HP t5720 slim one
@@philscomputerlab Go Here :
www11.zippyshare.com/v/S7uJsqjp/file.html
Enjoy
there are many programs to emulate dos based games and lowering the cpu frequency for that , so why having two computers if a more powerfull one can do more thinks ?
Because I can.
I'd like to set-up the T5720 (without expansion) as WIN98 system, to play CD-ROM titles of '94-'97 era with daemon tools and redbook audio. Too much?
Should be ok with older games, but not sure of the integrated sound card will support CD Audio, if it uses WDM drivers, then it should work actually.
@@philscomputerlab thanks! Did you ever test an external CD-ROM with line-out audio on one of these Thin Clients?
@@alessioscandy Hmm at least my USB optical drive does not have line-out, but if you have one that does, yea it should playback audio, I don't see how it wouldn't.
dein deutsches Englisch ist so niedlich 😀
Disadvantages of living in Australia :( postage is so expensive
12 volts power supply
low power consumption
Windows 2000 pro support
have to be able to play 720p mp4 video.
Any ideas?
Why? Watch videos on your phone...
After your video I got one of them too for quite cheap. But just now, while looking through Ebay, I came across them again and there are crazy fuckers wanting up to 500 EUR for them, advertising them as DOS gaming machines...
While there are far cheaper ones, with 92.44 EUR at the cheapest they are still a multiple of what they were before. As soon as greedy people think they can rip others off, prices will skyrocket...
I don't know if people are really buying them for these prices as some for 490 EUR state 20 sold or if they were sold when they were still cheap.
That's sad, but not much we can do. You can run an advanced search on eBay for sold items if you are curious.
@@philscomputerlab I looked through one of the 490 EUR sellers' reviews and didn't see any sold for this price but multiple sold for around a 100 EUR a pop.
Just used advanced search and what I found funny was, that there was a pack of 10 t5720 sold for 2000 EUR but also a pack of 5 sold for 50 EUR. So people are buying at both ends of the price spectrum.
Never really thought about using advanced search to compare prices. Might be helpful for buying Big Box games where you don't have selling history sites like for console games.
@@moomah5929 Hmm well consider me guilty then. When I started checking these computers out, they struggled to sell them and prices where really cheap. Some I bought for around $10 here in Australia.