They couldn’t at that point. They missed their target and had no more fuel. From what I understand they do get more fuel and go back again. This deleting all this. Which is terrible. And if Gordon ever finds out about it who knows what will happen.
@@darkopzhe knows they told him everything, they told him about his wife, his son and unborn baby, but he wasn't mad because he didn't experience it for himself, he told them its okay they did what they had to, he does this at the end of the episode, he even said I can't believe I would be that selfish, he's basically judging his alternate future self
@@jhimso1018this episode was so powerful. You felt his pain and passion. It brought me to tears. When Mercer said he was going back 10 years to bring him back….I said that is fucked up!!
Gordon should have been like, to every time they cited the union: "technically? The union does not exist yet. I am not bound by laws to a system that does not exist."
furthermore? what might have sent this episode over the edge? is if gordon actually killed his friends in that last moment.... gordon spent 10 years building a family for himself, regardless of what mercer and ashley meant to him before? their actions would be seen by him as literally killing his family, i could see him prioritizing saving them over his friendships towards the orville. even still? this could have been fixed full circle where the crew gets the time machine fixed and jump back to get gordon earlier as planned...gordon is brought home earlier? mercer and ashley had no reason to go into to the timeline where gordon's family exists, they jump to the present with a flash and the scene has mercer and ashely and gordon enjoying themselves on the ship without any conflict or knowledge of what happened
It's not important whether it was "legal" or "against code". It's about the right thing, for the right reasons. And the needs of millions outweigh the needs of one. Strength is knowing when you're the one, and choosing the right thing anyway.
@@TheEvilCheesecake He stood that strength for three years, likely longer than a majority of helmsmen could retain that code. He gave up after that because the chances of rescue were too far gone - if they hadn't rescued him in the first few months, why would they rescue him now? They could simply jump backwards to the start, after all, so he was stuck. That's likely his thought process.
2:00 Gordon brings up a good point, before they went back in time the crew accessed the history of Gordon and couldn't identify any significant catastrophic changes in their time
yeah but with the access to a time machine or a way to go back in time in general then "TECHNICALLY" all of the past is in a state of infinite divergence and possibility and the time traveler will always be a variable that change any part of the equation through eiither action or in action
Well, not every change by time travel grows up to overthrow the main timeline. I argue, that the most temporal changes would never make it. Butterfly effect debunked. 😮
@@YannickMenning Maybe but is ok if he messes with time and the only effect it has is that one little girl dies? It didn't end the world but that girl's parents would disagree.
@@YouDontKnowMeSoYouDontKnowJack Is it though? When technology advances enough it renders a lot of old ways of doing things functionally unnecessary. Many of which are indeed immoral and wrong IF there's a better way to do things available. If you have the means to replicate meat without a single living thing having to be a casualty in order for it to occur, then what is hunting if not unethical and cruel? Without any express need to do so, you'd effectively just be wiping out living things for no other reason than "because you felt like it."
has anyone else noticed the Hypocrisy in there statement they have changed the time line before and im not refering to past kelly but the black market antic dealer from the future after all who knows how many things they've changed by changing the orvilles fate
There is a slight difference in that their deaths were stopped by a time traveller, who wanted to put them on sale (or some such as I don't recall the exact details). So they were in the right to stop that, however, they weren't going to do it by killing everyone on the ship either. They may also not know of what she said was 100% true.
It’s a bit different because she was the one changing her past, which is their present, they have no obligation to fulfil her future, whereas Gordon technically had an obligation to ensure he didn’t mess with their past
@@JoybuzzerXthey 100% knew she was a time traveler. And that without her they would’ve died. They’re incredibly hypocritical. If the timeline is that important then they can go fly their ship into the sun for their disillusioned sainthood. But they don’t. It shouldn’t matter the number, if they’re willing to do it to their friend and his family then they damn better have the respect to do it to people who went to space knowing they may die rather then children who don’t even realize what it all is
Our current understanding of temporal physics suggest, that this version of Gordon's existence is still valid, even after Ed and Kelly go back to an even earlier point to get him. This version of Gordon had an impact on history, however small or big that may be, after he chose to disregard Union laws. It became a branched timeline, that played out resulting in a new alternative reality.
Don't think there's any "science" to suggest alternate timelines existing. It's speculation. Where's the energy to create an entire other universe supposed to come from?
@@Leto2ndAtreides To be fair, who knows if the basic laws of physics even apply in something like that. They could be a whole other realm of laws. It's wild stuff.
But that's kinda the interesting thing. While yeah technically they are both correct, I don't feel like the show goes out of its way to paint mercer and Kelly as implicitly good or correct. Just like it doesn't do that with Malloy either. In the end it really felt hollow. And Mercer is already feeling the effects of doing such an atrocious thing to his friend
Yeah in the future I would immediately demand to be let off serving the Orville and absolutely never speak to them EVER again. At that point they would be worse than dead in my eyes
@@natashaw.7315 If I was a crewmember of the Orville I'd be in a permanent state of anxiety as long as Ed was the Captain. If he would do that to his friend .....
@Goremejy Gordon isn't entirely innocent in this either. Remember that they found Laura's time capsule (her phone) and Gordon went through all of it. Her photos of where she traveled, people she interacted with, photos of her hobbies, every private conversation she ever had via messages, everything. They even created a simulated version of Laura and Gordon dated the simulation after it broke up with her ex. All of this before he met the real Laura in 2015. Who he specifically sought after bc there's no way he just happened to bump into the girl who's phone he looked through 400 years in the future. Laura eventually learns Gordon is from the future but he never tells her that he knew a lot about her WAY before he ever met her in person. He lied. A lie of ommission. There's a very good chance they only fell in love bc Gordon literally prepped and knew exactly what to say to Laura to make her fall in love with him bc of his prior knowledge gained from the phone and simulation. The entire foundation of their love is based on a massive lie of ommission that Gordon knew a lot about Laura while Laura believed it was all organically happening, and Gordon said nothing to make sure he kept her
If him coming back in time created a DIVERGENT timeline, then no harm, no foul to the this particular Orville's timeline. Sort of like Terminator, the fact Skynet Sent back a terminator to kill John Connor, means it already failed, because success would mean Skynet would NEVER have a reason to send it back in the first place.
Funny enough I always said sense John and his mom managed to insure Skynet could not be born (ignoring T3 for a second), he should've been erased from the timeline. Cuz if Skynet doesn't exist, then no time machine. No time machine, no Kyle going back in time to hook up with Sarah. No hook up with Sarah, no John Connor.
I would have just said "I am not bound by the rules of an organization that wont exist for centuries. You have no authority here. But I do. You are in my house, and I'm ordering you to leave"
Honestly they're all in the wrong. That machine should never even exist. If they're afraid of messing with time they shouldn't have done it to begin with.
Ed is all high in mighty about not changing the timeline as long as it didn't affect his timeline. Ed in his actions led to a timeline that started a war that led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands in the Kylon war. Ed is supposed to be dead in the unaltered timeline, but he wasn't strong enough to accept his destiny and destroyed the destinies of millions.
Yeah, his hypocrisy is astounding. To be that selfish, according to the moral code he quotes in this episode, only to get on a high horse when there's no personal danger to himself, only his crew member's family. It's strange that earlier incident wasn't brought up, but then that might have de-railed the point the writers were trying to hamfistedly make.
Definitely the most powerfuly emotional episode by far...😢I see both sides of the situation although I always feel sad for Gordon...he is human, doing what he felt he had to after waiting for rescue for ten years...who in this timeline we inhabit would not do the same if it was us... However, Gordon did say Ed and Kelly did the right thing at the end so kind of justified their harsh critical future human view of Gordon's plight as a future with Gordon in their timeline is born despite the sad knowledge two children and a wife no longer exist...
One wished for the sameness in the universe at the expense of the few. The other wished for the existence of their loved ones even at risk of the future’s outcome. I do believe Gordon was in the right. Although we should live life helping the greater good we should not devote every parcel of ourselves and family to it. We are not made for service to one another, never. We are made to be
Gordon had a better point. Before they even went back in time to save Gordon in 2015. They saw that he lived on earth up until the year 2068, yet they were still 400 years in the future before they even went back to get him. Nothing affected their future while he was on earth and lived his life. They had proof right there in front of them that the timeline was okay and still decided to kill of his kids.
Ed and Kelly were total hypocrites. If they were in Gordon’s position, they would have done the exact same thing. The writing was off. They were not supportive to Gordon and clearly aren’t his friends.
They were. Remember in season 1 when they were all suppose to die in that space storm and a female time traveler saved them. The future looked safe then, but Ed didn't want to die or go to the future, so he stayed and caused multiple wars now. Ed is a real hypocrite.
@@crasher925 It does intentionally show not just Ed's hypocrisy but it also shows how selfish Ed is. He was on the same boat in season one, but rather than avoid changing the time line, he chose to keep on living with his crew and effectively change it.
Speaking as a husband and father, i would have stunned them, told my family to leave, then offed them. Bury them somewhere. You NEVER mess with a mans family.
I think if the show continues, there ought to be a time remnant episode, where this Gordon sees his world collapse and finds a way back to the future to take revenge.
Wait, did they really end this episode by actually destroying this timeline? How the fuck are you supposed to root for characters who do shit like that?
@@kieranadamson3224 I’m glad you don’t write any worthwile science fiction. Any story that is just full of rainbows, sunbeams and happily ever afters, is boring and lazy.
Exactly!!! Sorry my enlistment expired 8 years ago, I'm not union anymore. I agree with Gordon. You come for me in my house you are going down. Gordon is just.
As much as people hate on the orville crews decision, i think thats what makes the show great. It generates those kinds of discussion, and we dont even need to agree with the decision they made. When was the last time a star trek left anyone arguing about anything except whether it's bad or good.
1:34 in is where he won me over because it's one thing to be trapped by yourself but to be on a planet where I could communicate and have a life? Friends? Happiness?
@joshuagarza7884 ; I hope you're right.The only big plague in all this are those stream services you always have to pay for.Why can't The Orville just come on the normal channels like before with Star Trek so everyone can enjoy this great show without that extra pay.
They end up just murdering his future children, erasing them and a happy Gordon from existence, just to alter a timeline that wouldn’t have changed much in the first place. This makes me hate these characters so much I don’t want to watch the show
I mean it would have a ripple effect. If these children where sterile and never had children of their own maybe you could say its such a small drop in the bucket. But they would have kids, those kids have kids and so on through the ages. Tens of thousands of people would spawn from this in a few centuries (look up how many descendants Pocahontas has). It would change a lot, because anyone of those descendants might do X and that X will have a ripple effect out from that.
Nah dude it's great TV writing when it makes you feel something like that. A choice where both characters can be right but personal priority takes over. I loved how well written this was
This is by far my favorite episode of The Orville. The ending was a real gut punch but it was still a great story. Time travel is one of the oldest plot devices there is but it was portrayed here perfectly and in a fresh and gripping way. My only complaint with this entire episode is the way Gordon acted at the end. I know they ended up brining him back before he met his wife or had a family but he'd already been in love with her from the iPhone episode, he should have been a lot more effected by what they told him upon his return even if, for him, it never happened. He just brushed it off much too cavalierly I thought.
It was kinda cruel what they did. They erased his timeline. They went back in time to when he was following union protocol and zero contact with anyone. So when they rescued him again the timeline of his wife and child ceased to exist
@@TheNoiseySpectator Yes they just rescued him earlier. knowing he would ever know a timeline that ever existed. But they knew it existed... That's the cruelty
They should have given him a big hug, wished him luck, then do what they did anyway. Then he wouldn't have been terrified and distraught over losing his family, and then would have never known anyway.
The real problem is they think they can not interfere. Taking him back is interference cutting off certain possibilities, don't take him back, same thing. Once he was left 10 years in the past, nothing was ever going to be the same. The only view that works at that point is the change is already integrated into the timeline unless you have a City of the Edge situation where certain people are actually temporally shielded from any change, then their memories can at least in theory be used as a guide. You can't "fix" a timeline because The Timeline is not alterable.
if dying for the timeline is what he was suppose to do than how about this, he goes back if the captain kills the first officer right then, go to the kitchen and get a knife and stab her in the heart. if dying to protect the timeline is the right thing to do than let her die to protect it as well.
that was so not fair for what ed and kelly did destroy his family and that is why they just care more about their job and then Gordon happiness and they just took it away from him
Yeah i never liked this Episode what he said was facts nothing happened they dont even know what real damage he did cause it was that small of a change they basically killed a family to protect this so called "wrong" in the timeline especially because of some stupid law....
Because things are in flux and as such you can't know what he did. They literally could not know what he did because that is the way in flux works when it comes to the so called time stream. IRL it doesn't exist and so time travel can never exist because what you call time is merely the decay of thermal radiation but for them it is a real thing. If you perform time travel than our laws of physics can't apply to you and so this is a universe with different laws but as it stands for us time is merely the effect of entropy upon thermal radiation. No more and no less.
@fenrisdalacost9140 yeah but like the beggining and end of the argument is just Where gorden is (the past) and where they came from (*the future) If golden made any relevant changes that would harshly impact the future, they should know what it is and it should be significant and justifiable.
@@whatteamwildcats4033They can't tell the effects he had to the time line because he already changed it and so all the changes that happen because of him is the real past to them so they can't know...for eg you are thrown back in time -but in your original time there was no Hitler- so you change your name and move to Austria you have a son and die..your son has a daughter who has a son who is Hitler who goes on to do all the things he does....to us there has always been a hitler but to you there never was and since we are from this new time you created we can't tell that he was never supposed to exist...not only that any person or thing you affect can change the timeline
Morally it's very wrong to change the past, your very interactions with the world are going to stop people being born who were supposed to be born and cause others that are alive to die. On top of this like somebody already mentioned, I'm not sure if you can detect the changes made and it's inconceivable that over time such an interaction will not change a great many things to an extreme degree. If you have children and your children have children... at some point you're going to be responsible for the existence of millions of people that wouldn't have otherwise existed. Some of them are going to kill people, some of them are going to be scientists, some of them are going to be politicians and they ALL individually change the future even more everyday. The smallest change expands exponentially by creating more changes which also do the same. It's also very morally wrong if your future is relatively stable and peaceful but if your future is an unrecoverable hellscape then it could be argued that it is more morally grey (you might make the future better and can't make it worse).
They were terrible people and Gordon just laid over when they told him all about it. Would’ve been way better if he had some resentment towards them. Sure, he was disappointed in his future self for breaking rules, but he loved Laura. Hard to believe him learning he had her for real and then they took her from him would make him go “oh that’s okay”
I would be willing to bet that the union also has laws regarding time frames of service and spending 10 years outside of their jurisdiction likely declared dead anyway probably frees him from his oath. Also I just think this is a really bad depiction of time travel anyway and only exists for drama.
The ending of this episode shows a rescued Gordon being told about his other life in this past and how he is supposedly grateful to Ed and Kelly for rescuing him his alternate life with a wife and kids. I never liked the ending to this one. Can you imagine being told that in an alternate life you were happily married and a father. Then being told that someone just "saved" you from that fate. This was a very compelling and engaging episode but one with a very unsatisfactory ending.
The funny thing is, if you look at the photos of Laura, in the beginning of the show, she DOES have a wedding ring on, even before he went back. So the real question is, who is, or was, the husband?
"Nobody knows how time travel works." Well, maybe y'all shouldn't have been experimenting with *a time machine.* If there are so many laws against time travel, why even touch it?
Interesting thing about this scene. Time travel is a tricky thing assuming your actions have consequences then Gordon's every action in the past is like setting of a nuke. Deviating and unpredictable. The thing is every one of us would do what he did it is human nature. The Orville should have never come late if they could have helped it. And they should have never used the arinov Device in the first place.
I think Mercer and Grayson made a huge mistake of telling Gordon about this when they got back to the Orville. Knowing Gordon, he's going to dwell on it, and it could create real resentment in the future. If I were Mercer, I would've known Gordon wasn't going to leave his family, so I wouldn't have even bothered with this whole argument. I would've had Issac and Charlie mine the ditronium and stay my ass on the ship and wait to travel back to get the 2015 Gordon. I suppose that would've made for a less interesting episode, though.
Tbh I understand that 10 years are rough. What I found creepy that Gordon went after the one woman he knew and messed with her life for his own good. Thats what I find a bit off here.
I'm glad to see people calling the bs of this episode out. The hypocrisy of Ed and Kelly are off the scale. Kelly contaminated a society and was worshipped. Ed changed time by not letting his crew/ship be destroyed in that storm that the time traveler saved them from. None of them should exist but here they are. So Gordon not only loses his family he regresses as a character overall. Trash writing.
Time travel in the Orville is dumb and makes no sense. You don’t alter the timeline you create a branched reality. See Hulk’s explanation in Endgame. But even with this flawed logic of time travel, Gordon’s effect on the timeline was minimal. Barely noticeable in the grand scheme of things. And we know that by the fact the future wasn’t altered in the slightest. All that changed was Gordon’s military record from the 21st century. They could have brought them all back. Gordon deserves to be happy. They were wrong to rob him of that.
Them correcting.the time travel could cause more harm than goid. As he stated him being there could be a fixed point in time that wasnent to happen.vamd their playing god by fixing it
Fixed points in time are used as a story point in less serious media like comics. To the universe you meeting your future wife and a molecule of water drifting through space are of the exact same importance... none. Also I think it's pretty clear that this isn't the 'if it happens it already happened' reasoning in some time travel stories. Meaning there is no paradox or self fulfilling loops. There was always the original unaltered timeline until people messed with time.
What Isaak said is just stupid. When they were checking past Gordon, they observed, he lived all his life in the 21st century, the same as everyone else from that period (except those who were speeding up near a black hole, be frozen or something ;) The only ones messing with a timeline was the captain and his ex-goddess for some people 😂
In short time travel is something nobody should mess with PERIOD. This argument wouldn't be happening period if the tech didn't exist. Any tech that allows humanity to play God is more harmful to us than any good it could theoretically do. How far does progress have to go before someone should pull the breaks? Do we maintain the status quo? Progress full speed ahead to our own destruction? or do we find a balance and control what should and shouldn't be advanced?
Future plot! Gordon finds out with an emergency alternative temporal research action for an upcoming crisis which has a controversial resolution! He manipulates the situation where he can change the timeline back; offering doomsday dimensional repercussions if they should try to reverse it, or retrieve him from it! This will be his personal goodbye, unless they need an almost as talented look alike descendant they can get in a later time, or their own time!
I find it kind of hypocritical that the union messes with technology that can cause time travel yet they have all these laws about not messing with time. It’s a paradox. It ends up in the wrong hands or even the right hands you get something like what happened with Kelly. And all she did was not go out on a second date with Ed. Essentially this technology shouldn’t exist at all. Gordon simply played the hand he was dealt and Kelly and Ed were telling him to die or to not exist. Maybe he had a winning hand and they gave him a new one mid game. How do you tell someone who does good and has a good and loving life not to exist because of something you can’t say for certain.
The worst thing out of this is when he asked "should I have died?" and they answered "yes". They said that so fast without thinking but they want him to return with them.
Honestly, this is why you don't send friends to do this kind of work. They would feel too much compassion for their friend. You should send someone who is specialized in this type of field.
This epispde shouldve shown a different timeline in the future in which the union was formed earlier and has peace with the kaylon and krill just to show the impact on tje viewer that the timeline they tried to erased still exists and is way better
If you have the ability to go back in time, why didn't they come back at the exact moment he arrived? Let me guess some BS prevents this, so this story can happen.
You know Gideon from Dad timeline should have probably stole their ship and then go back in time even further and tell his younger self do not go back to them because sometime next month, our friends will ask you to go back to them and in this time you fell in love, and then Find and then create a family so no matter what they say do not go back to them
I haven’t seen this show, so maybe there’s an explanation. Why didn’t they go back to the point he was first lost? From a physics perspective this doesn’t make sense. And, his argument is correct. How is it that they exist in the future if his error was so great? The order of events creates the possibility where he traveling to the past was a part of the creation of the Union all along. I know this show is exploring things, but it is definitely using comic book physics. It’s like when Magneto lifts up things or even levitates. For one, Magnetism doesn’t interact with gravity. Define not at any of the scales of energy that magneto presents. For two, using that scale of magnetic force on objects would induct massive currents in the metales. Three, Newtons laws still apply. Magneto needs an opposing force for the lifting force being exerted on the metals he is manipulating. It’s either going through his body and into the ground (because, again, magnetism doesn’t interact with gravity), or it’s being exerted between two metals, one of them stationary against the ground (in which case, again, huge currents are induced in the metals, which would probably melt them). The point here is that the physics is really complex but kinda straightforward once you sort it out, and you can’t really just wave a writers pen to create a problem in physics. The moment the person travels back in time, that event is now a part of the past. So, Gordon’s argument is correct.
They overshot, basically. Time travel is still relatively new tech to them, after all. They initially did receive his message to come retrieve him but were late by 10 years. After this, they eventually leave and go back to the time they were supposed to get him, and everything is back to normal.
The obsession over the existence of their Galactic love-in club as juxtaposed to the fact that Gordon's child has a much right to exist as anyone really shows both the selfishness and the hypocrisy. At best everyone here is picking the timeline they want and to hell with the negative consequences on others. Gordon, at least, made some salient points about right to life and the uncertainty of the unfolding of timelines.
Everyone saying they did the wrong thing is looking at far too sympatheticly. Gordons actions will have a massive impact on the timeline. The smallest action can lead to massive consequences. Hell killing the animals he saw could have insane consequences for the future. Whats bad about what the Captain does is not go back 10 years straight away when they realised.
How can Ed now demand of his best friend that he would make his family disappear when he himself is the father of Anaya?🤔"Can anyone give a sensible answer to this ?
Why?! Unlimited Food is available to everyone in their world and there is no currency in the society except in the form of reputation So animals living on the earth with them should have the same rights as inhabitants of the planet That includes regarding “killing animals as murder”. I like that IMO
A really good Star Trek-esque dilemma where both sides of the argument are technically right and the outcome isn't always happy. ... however, this made my wife hate the Union. LOL.
Can I say, I don't think the counter of saying "How about when Kelly became a religion?" Is the best argument because due to her existence, the entirety of their civilization continued to progress, and if it wasn't gonna be Kelly. It could have been someone who we don't know..to be so much worst.
If the union has laws of time travel, shouldn’t they have the power of time travel if they don’t have the power do so every law they have is theoretical shouldn’t be taken seriously
What is this? Some kind of lesson about. Life and time and human nature and spirit? In a _Seth MacFarlane_ show? 😒 Something is suspicious 🤔. Is the other Seth McFarland who made shows like "Family Guy" and that movie about all the different ways cowboys could get killed from an Evil parallel universe? And this Seth McFarland is from a Good parallel universe? 🤷🏼♂️ Are they good and evil twins, and the good one knocked out the evil one and took over his life?
Over that ten years he never once shared knowledge of the future or used it to his advantage, he should have been left. Especially when they have the ability to go back and forth, they could just quick hop back to their future and see the consequences if any
What pissed me off the most is that they went back in time to get him.. they grabbed him before he met his wife and children.. so the children never existed wouldn't you clarify that as murder.. they should have just left them alone he had a good life a good family.. it's pretty obviously that he did not screw up the timeline
Keep in mind that they found Laura's time capsule (her phone) 400 years in the future. Gordon specifically went through all of it, pictures of where she traveled to, who she interacted with, her hobbies, her private conversations with her best friends, everything. All of this LONG before he met her in person when he got stuck in the past. So there's a very good chance Gordon knew exactly what to say to Laura to make her fall for him, and there's no chance he just so happen to bump into Laura. He very likely specifically looked for her using the knowledge he gained from going through her phone in the future. The foundation of their marriage is a massive lie of ommission. Laura doesn't know Gordon knew a lot about her long before they ever met.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 88 | คู่เอก "ป้อมเพชร vs อัสลามจอน"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1ZqTVVbMgbo/mqdefault.jpg)
Dude was literally stranded for 10 entire years. It was an inconvenient afternoon for Ed, it was an entire 6th-10th of Gordon's life span.
My bigger question is, do you get back pay then?
@@RyanWells-i8kin the future money is obsolete. ❤
But Ed's concerns go way beyond personal.
Yea that's why they decided to get him from the past
They should have went back in time without telling him, just go back to the moment he was stranded
They couldn’t at that point. They missed their target and had no more fuel. From what I understand they do get more fuel and go back again. This deleting all this. Which is terrible. And if Gordon ever finds out about it who knows what will happen.
@@darkopzhe knows they told him everything, they told him about his wife, his son and unborn baby, but he wasn't mad because he didn't experience it for himself, he told them its okay they did what they had to, he does this at the end of the episode, he even said I can't believe I would be that selfish, he's basically judging his alternate future self
@@jhimso1018this episode was so powerful. You felt his pain and passion. It brought me to tears. When Mercer said he was going back 10 years to bring him back….I said that is fucked up!!
Gordon should have been like, to every time they cited the union: "technically? The union does not exist yet. I am not bound by laws to a system that does not exist."
furthermore? what might have sent this episode over the edge? is if gordon actually killed his friends in that last moment....
gordon spent 10 years building a family for himself, regardless of what mercer and ashley meant to him before? their actions would be seen by him as literally killing his family, i could see him prioritizing saving them over his friendships towards the orville.
even still? this could have been fixed full circle where the crew gets the time machine fixed and jump back to get gordon earlier as planned...gordon is brought home earlier? mercer and ashley had no reason to go into to the timeline where gordon's family exists, they jump to the present with a flash and the scene has mercer and ashely and gordon enjoying themselves on the ship without any conflict or knowledge of what happened
Yeah exactly!
It's not important whether it was "legal" or "against code". It's about the right thing, for the right reasons. And the needs of millions outweigh the needs of one. Strength is knowing when you're the one, and choosing the right thing anyway.
@@TheEvilCheesecake He stood that strength for three years, likely longer than a majority of helmsmen could retain that code. He gave up after that because the chances of rescue were too far gone - if they hadn't rescued him in the first few months, why would they rescue him now? They could simply jump backwards to the start, after all, so he was stuck. That's likely his thought process.
@@pokemonfanmario7694 weakness for the right reasons is still weakness.
Gordon deserves his happy ending. unlike those two didn't work out for them.
For real. I'd rather stayed century past than being with a cheated girlfriend
2:00 Gordon brings up a good point, before they went back in time the crew accessed the history of Gordon and couldn't identify any significant catastrophic changes in their time
yeah but with the access to a time machine or a way to go back in time in general then "TECHNICALLY" all of the past is in a state of infinite divergence and possibility and the time traveler will always be a variable that change any part of the equation through eiither action or in action
Well, not every change by time travel grows up to overthrow the main timeline.
I argue, that the most temporal changes would never make it.
Butterfly effect debunked. 😮
@@YannickMenning Maybe but is ok if he messes with time and the only effect it has is that one little girl dies? It didn't end the world but that girl's parents would disagree.
@@cadenrolland5250 hyperbolic. but if you insist why not take him and his family to the future.
@@JayJayM57 They should have explored that, that would have been fun.
I like the reference that killing animals is murder in a world where food is unlimited due to the invention of materials synthesizers
It's a pretty ridiculous concept, which is probably the point.
@@YouDontKnowMeSoYouDontKnowJack Is it though?
When technology advances enough it renders a lot of old ways of doing things functionally unnecessary. Many of which are indeed immoral and wrong IF there's a better way to do things available.
If you have the means to replicate meat without a single living thing having to be a casualty in order for it to occur, then what is hunting if not unethical and cruel? Without any express need to do so, you'd effectively just be wiping out living things for no other reason than "because you felt like it."
@@patchwurk6652we don’t have the technology to replicate meat. So until that day comes….you are going to have to deal with the old fashioned ways!!
@@nativ3_t3xan70 No duh, it's a hypothetical. In Orville that technology has existed for awhile.
has anyone else noticed the Hypocrisy in there statement they have changed the time line before and im not refering to past kelly but the black market antic dealer from the future after all who knows how many things they've changed by changing the orvilles fate
There is a slight difference in that their deaths were stopped by a time traveller, who wanted to put them on sale (or some such as I don't recall the exact details).
So they were in the right to stop that, however, they weren't going to do it by killing everyone on the ship either.
They may also not know of what she said was 100% true.
It’s a bit different because she was the one changing her past, which is their present, they have no obligation to fulfil her future, whereas Gordon technically had an obligation to ensure he didn’t mess with their past
@@3adgamd3r goes both ways shes literally messing with the past to save them
But you dont see them trying to kill themselves to fix the timeline
@@JoybuzzerXthey 100% knew she was a time traveler. And that without her they would’ve died. They’re incredibly hypocritical. If the timeline is that important then they can go fly their ship into the sun for their disillusioned sainthood. But they don’t. It shouldn’t matter the number, if they’re willing to do it to their friend and his family then they damn better have the respect to do it to people who went to space knowing they may die rather then children who don’t even realize what it all is
@@GuyWhoKnowsThings That's what I'm saying. Hypocrisy and I wish Gordon pointed it out instead of going, "What was wrong with me?"
Our current understanding of temporal physics suggest, that this version of Gordon's existence is still valid, even after Ed and Kelly go back to an even earlier point to get him.
This version of Gordon had an impact on history, however small or big that may be, after he chose to disregard Union laws. It became a branched timeline, that played out resulting in a new alternative reality.
Don't think there's any "science" to suggest alternate timelines existing. It's speculation.
Where's the energy to create an entire other universe supposed to come from?
@@Leto2ndAtreides To be fair, who knows if the basic laws of physics even apply in something like that. They could be a whole other realm of laws. It's wild stuff.
@@Leto2ndAtreides he never said that it is dead proofed that they exist. it is but a theory.
Is the the explanation hulk gets from the wizard lady? 😂
@@ginger_nosoul The fuck you talking about?
This scene angered me
He murdered his best friends children. They will never exsist. Its worse than murder. Nobody will ever know about them.
But that's kinda the interesting thing. While yeah technically they are both correct, I don't feel like the show goes out of its way to paint mercer and Kelly as implicitly good or correct. Just like it doesn't do that with Malloy either. In the end it really felt hollow. And Mercer is already feeling the effects of doing such an atrocious thing to his friend
Yeah in the future I would immediately demand to be let off serving the Orville and absolutely never speak to them EVER again. At that point they would be worse than dead in my eyes
@@natashaw.7315 If I was a crewmember of the Orville I'd be in a permanent state of anxiety as long as Ed was the Captain. If he would do that to his friend .....
@Goremejy Gordon isn't entirely innocent in this either. Remember that they found Laura's time capsule (her phone) and Gordon went through all of it. Her photos of where she traveled, people she interacted with, photos of her hobbies, every private conversation she ever had via messages, everything. They even created a simulated version of Laura and Gordon dated the simulation after it broke up with her ex. All of this before he met the real Laura in 2015. Who he specifically sought after bc there's no way he just happened to bump into the girl who's phone he looked through 400 years in the future.
Laura eventually learns Gordon is from the future but he never tells her that he knew a lot about her WAY before he ever met her in person. He lied. A lie of ommission. There's a very good chance they only fell in love bc Gordon literally prepped and knew exactly what to say to Laura to make her fall in love with him bc of his prior knowledge gained from the phone and simulation. The entire foundation of their love is based on a massive lie of ommission that Gordon knew a lot about Laura while Laura believed it was all organically happening, and Gordon said nothing to make sure he kept her
Think of it as an abortion
If him coming back in time created a DIVERGENT timeline, then no harm, no foul to the this particular Orville's timeline.
Sort of like Terminator, the fact Skynet Sent back a terminator to kill John Connor, means it already failed, because success would mean Skynet would NEVER have a reason to send it back in the first place.
Funny enough I always said sense John and his mom managed to insure Skynet could not be born (ignoring T3 for a second), he should've been erased from the timeline. Cuz if Skynet doesn't exist, then no time machine. No time machine, no Kyle going back in time to hook up with Sarah. No hook up with Sarah, no John Connor.
My god its the grandfather paradox @CS08129
Who’d have thought the guy who made Family Guy would make a show where you think about morals
I think he’s way more passionate about the Orville than Family guy
@imperialwalker I think you're right. Seth has always been a diehard Trekke, and his first work was based around the Orville.
0:19
Gordon stand up for him self.
Yeah this episode made me sad
I would have just said "I am not bound by the rules of an organization that wont exist for centuries. You have no authority here. But I do. You are in my house, and I'm ordering you to leave"
Doubt it will happen now, but a season 4 episode where this Gordon threatens Ed’s daughter as revenge could be cool wrath of khan retribution
An evil-timeline Gordon would be a fun two episode villain.
Retribution? Revenge? If Gordon Malloy turns that evil...he will be way beyond Isaac-like salvation arc, I'd wager.
Season 4 is in the works. 😊
Honestly they're all in the wrong. That machine should never even exist. If they're afraid of messing with time they shouldn't have done it to begin with.
Ed is all high in mighty about not changing the timeline as long as it didn't affect his timeline. Ed in his actions led to a timeline that started a war that led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands in the Kylon war. Ed is supposed to be dead in the unaltered timeline, but he wasn't strong enough to accept his destiny and destroyed the destinies of millions.
Yeah, his hypocrisy is astounding. To be that selfish, according to the moral code he quotes in this episode, only to get on a high horse when there's no personal danger to himself, only his crew member's family.
It's strange that earlier incident wasn't brought up, but then that might have de-railed the point the writers were trying to hamfistedly make.
I kinda agree, but weren't they going to be brought into the future changing that timeline anyways.
Definitely the most powerfuly emotional episode by far...😢I see both sides of the situation although I always feel sad for Gordon...he is human, doing what he felt he had to after waiting for rescue for ten years...who in this timeline we inhabit would not do the same if it was us...
However, Gordon did say Ed and Kelly did the right thing at the end so kind of justified their harsh critical future human view of Gordon's plight as a future with Gordon in their timeline is born despite the sad knowledge two children and a wife no longer exist...
He was marooned long enough, he deserved his happiness.
This one was incredibly hard because they both had a point.
One wished for the sameness in the universe at the expense of the few. The other wished for the existence of their loved ones even at risk of the future’s outcome. I do believe Gordon was in the right. Although we should live life helping the greater good we should not devote every parcel of ourselves and family to it. We are not made for service to one another, never. We are made to be
Gordon had a better point. Before they even went back in time to save Gordon in 2015. They saw that he lived on earth up until the year 2068, yet they were still 400 years in the future before they even went back to get him.
Nothing affected their future while he was on earth and lived his life. They had proof right there in front of them that the timeline was okay and still decided to kill of his kids.
Ed and Kelly were total hypocrites. If they were in Gordon’s position, they would have done the exact same thing. The writing was off. They were not supportive to Gordon and clearly aren’t his friends.
Kelly literally did it last season. Her own little flashpoint paradox.
They were. Remember in season 1 when they were all suppose to die in that space storm and a female time traveler saved them. The future looked safe then, but Ed didn't want to die or go to the future, so he stayed and caused multiple wars now. Ed is a real hypocrite.
you missed the point then. the writing was not off at all. The hypocrisy was intentional.
@@crasher925 It does intentionally show not just Ed's hypocrisy but it also shows how selfish Ed is. He was on the same boat in season one, but rather than avoid changing the time line, he chose to keep on living with his crew and effectively change it.
Speaking as a husband and father, i would have stunned them, told my family to leave, then offed them. Bury them somewhere. You NEVER mess with a mans family.
I think if the show continues, there ought to be a time remnant episode, where this Gordon sees his world collapse and finds a way back to the future to take revenge.
That would actually be crazy having him burn through the galaxy and them not knowing who’s destroying civilization come to find out it’s Gordon 😂🤦🏾♂️
Wait, did they really end this episode by actually destroying this timeline? How the fuck are you supposed to root for characters who do shit like that?
@@kieranadamson3224 you obviously are not a life long sci-go fan. This trope is a common time travel story.
@@SB-vj7sz ot seems like a pretty shit trope.
@@kieranadamson3224 I’m glad you don’t write any worthwile science fiction. Any story that is just full of rainbows, sunbeams and happily ever afters, is boring and lazy.
Didnt agree with the Union on this one. Trapped him in the past for that long, hes no longer Union.
More so for being pricks about it.
Exactly!!! Sorry my enlistment expired 8 years ago, I'm not union anymore. I agree with Gordon. You come for me in my house you are going down. Gordon is just.
the point they were making (without saying it) was that he should have ended it :(
@@miloszivkovic6256 Wow, you know, I didn't think of that.
@@miloszivkovic6256
You mean kill himself?
@@JoybuzzerXDidn't one of them literally respond to his question of if he should've died by saying "if it was to protect the timeline"
As much as people hate on the orville crews decision, i think thats what makes the show great. It generates those kinds of discussion, and we dont even need to agree with the decision they made. When was the last time a star trek left anyone arguing about anything except whether it's bad or good.
1:34 in is where he won me over because it's one thing to be trapped by yourself but to be on a planet where I could communicate and have a life? Friends? Happiness?
This was a great episode! Shame that Orville hasn't been renewed. Big shame.
there wass no right or wrong answer to this both sides seemed correct
Didn't they recently announce a fourth season?
@@stultuses I did a search and someone says a 4th season is coming. That's good news. Orville has been Star Trek fan's delight!
It's coming.....officially confirmed
@joshuagarza7884 ; I hope you're right.The only big plague in all this are those stream services you always have to pay for.Why can't The Orville just come on the normal channels like before with Star Trek so everyone can enjoy this great show without that extra pay.
They end up just murdering his future children, erasing them and a happy Gordon from existence, just to alter a timeline that wouldn’t have changed much in the first place. This makes me hate these characters so much I don’t want to watch the show
I mean it would have a ripple effect. If these children where sterile and never had children of their own maybe you could say its such a small drop in the bucket. But they would have kids, those kids have kids and so on through the ages. Tens of thousands of people would spawn from this in a few centuries (look up how many descendants Pocahontas has). It would change a lot, because anyone of those descendants might do X and that X will have a ripple effect out from that.
Nah dude it's great TV writing when it makes you feel something like that. A choice where both characters can be right but personal priority takes over. I loved how well written this was
@@The_dude12I do like how the dilemma was presented. Excellent writing
Think of it as an abortion
Can’t murder them if they never existed
This is by far my favorite episode of The Orville. The ending was a real gut punch but it was still a great story. Time travel is one of the oldest plot devices there is but it was portrayed here perfectly and in a fresh and gripping way. My only complaint with this entire episode is the way Gordon acted at the end. I know they ended up brining him back before he met his wife or had a family but he'd already been in love with her from the iPhone episode, he should have been a lot more effected by what they told him upon his return even if, for him, it never happened. He just brushed it off much too cavalierly I thought.
Captain Benjamin Sisko (aka Gabriel Bell) would have a few things to say about this.
It was kinda cruel what they did. They erased his timeline. They went back in time to when he was following union protocol and zero contact with anyone. So when they rescued him again the timeline of his wife and child ceased to exist
His wife never existed?
Maybe his child was born as someone else.
@@TheNoiseySpectator Yes they just rescued him earlier. knowing he would ever know a timeline that ever existed. But they knew it existed... That's the cruelty
They should have given him a big hug, wished him luck, then do what they did anyway. Then he wouldn't have been terrified and distraught over losing his family, and then would have never known anyway.
I always thought Gordon was the same as Fry Phillips from Futurama.
No, that's Billy West
@@TarotVylan I let me rephrase it, Gordon is similar to Philip J Fry from Futurama just in reverse. a redhead that fighting against time.
@@Alienman51 ohhhh, okay! Yeah that's a good parallel
They bend the rules of “time” to protect the ship, but not for this. Super hypocritical
This was Orville’s “Tuvix” moment.
“Screw it, I want my crewman back, we’re wrecking it all!”
The real problem is they think they can not interfere. Taking him back is interference cutting off certain possibilities, don't take him back, same thing. Once he was left 10 years in the past, nothing was ever going to be the same. The only view that works at that point is the change is already integrated into the timeline unless you have a City of the Edge situation where certain people are actually temporally shielded from any change, then their memories can at least in theory be used as a guide. You can't "fix" a timeline because The Timeline is not alterable.
So in the Orville they want the humans in the future to be complacent and robotic in emotions, that is terrible
No. They just don't want people messing with timelines.
@@theroachden6195🧢
@@theroachden6195 then don`t build a time machine. once you built it, you already set in motion the changes.
if dying for the timeline is what he was suppose to do than how about this, he goes back if the captain kills the first officer right then, go to the kitchen and get a knife and stab her in the heart. if dying to protect the timeline is the right thing to do than let her die to protect it as well.
True I find that it works for some people of higher ranks but for nobodies, we don't care if you live or die
Some big balls on kelly... Didn't Cali interfere interfere in the history of a race.
The ended up Is warshipping her as a god? Hypocritical😆
Morally gray episode. Perfect modern Star Trek ❤
that was so not fair for what ed and kelly did destroy his family and that is why they just care more about their job and then Gordon happiness and they just took it away from him
Yeah i never liked this Episode what he said was facts nothing happened they dont even know what real damage he did cause it was that small of a change they basically killed a family to protect this so called "wrong" in the timeline especially because of some stupid law....
Because things are in flux and as such you can't know what he did. They literally could not know what he did because that is the way in flux works when it comes to the so called time stream. IRL it doesn't exist and so time travel can never exist because what you call time is merely the decay of thermal radiation but for them it is a real thing. If you perform time travel than our laws of physics can't apply to you and so this is a universe with different laws but as it stands for us time is merely the effect of entropy upon thermal radiation. No more and no less.
@fenrisdalacost9140 yeah but like the beggining and end of the argument is just
Where gorden is (the past) and where they came from (*the future)
If golden made any relevant changes that would harshly impact the future, they should know what it is and it should be significant and justifiable.
@@whatteamwildcats4033They can't tell the effects he had to the time line because he already changed it and so all the changes that happen because of him is the real past to them so they can't know...for eg you are thrown back in time -but in your original time there was no Hitler- so you change your name and move to Austria you have a son and die..your son has a daughter who has a son who is Hitler who goes on to do all the things he does....to us there has always been a hitler but to you there never was and since we are from this new time you created we can't tell that he was never supposed to exist...not only that any person or thing you affect can change the timeline
Morally it's very wrong to change the past, your very interactions with the world are going to stop people being born who were supposed to be born and cause others that are alive to die.
On top of this like somebody already mentioned, I'm not sure if you can detect the changes made and it's inconceivable that over time such an interaction will not change a great many things to an extreme degree.
If you have children and your children have children... at some point you're going to be responsible for the existence of millions of people that wouldn't have otherwise existed.
Some of them are going to kill people, some of them are going to be scientists, some of them are going to be politicians and they ALL individually change the future even more everyday.
The smallest change expands exponentially by creating more changes which also do the same.
It's also very morally wrong if your future is relatively stable and peaceful but if your future is an unrecoverable hellscape then it could be argued that it is more morally grey (you might make the future better and can't make it worse).
@@retsaMinnavoiG counterargument most people are irrelevant to time and can be replaced. only a few people do something the is history.
They were terrible people in this episode
No
They did the right thing, but they should have just left and done it, not warned him ahead of time.
@@TheLockon00 i'd love an episode where the family actually continued on, and Gordon's descendant shows up with a grudge.
They were terrible people and Gordon just laid over when they told him all about it. Would’ve been way better if he had some resentment towards them. Sure, he was disappointed in his future self for breaking rules, but he loved Laura. Hard to believe him learning he had her for real and then they took her from him would make him go “oh that’s okay”
That's a strange conclusion...
If only the people of the union lived like he did they would have known
Definitely one of their better episodes.
This show got really deep and philosophical for a comedy
I would be willing to bet that the union also has laws regarding time frames of service and spending 10 years outside of their jurisdiction likely declared dead anyway probably frees him from his oath.
Also I just think this is a really bad depiction of time travel anyway and only exists for drama.
Dude already did the damage unless they were gonna go back to when he first went back
The ending of this episode shows a rescued Gordon being told about his other life in this past and how he is supposedly grateful to Ed and Kelly for rescuing him his alternate life with a wife and kids. I never liked the ending to this one. Can you imagine being told that in an alternate life you were happily married and a father. Then being told that someone just "saved" you from that fate. This was a very compelling and engaging episode but one with a very unsatisfactory ending.
01:50
Malloy... do you even know what responsibilities are?
It was also sad that Gordon became a dirty cop during his time on earth, working with Tony before he started working for NCIS.
The funny thing is, if you look at the photos of Laura, in the beginning of the show, she DOES have a wedding ring on, even before he went back. So the real question is, who is, or was, the husband?
"Nobody knows how time travel works." Well, maybe y'all shouldn't have been experimenting with *a time machine.* If there are so many laws against time travel, why even touch it?
And this is why the future can't have any type of time travel equipment. The outcome never ends well for anyone.
Wouldnt the solution have been to figure out how to go back to the point where Gordon was stranded ten years sgo snd extricate him from thst point?
Interesting thing about this scene. Time travel is a tricky thing assuming your actions have consequences then Gordon's every action in the past is like setting of a nuke. Deviating and unpredictable. The thing is every one of us would do what he did it is human nature. The Orville should have never come late if they could have helped it. And they should have never used the arinov Device in the first place.
Yeah, that's why this is one of my favorite episodes. So good.
I think Mercer and Grayson made a huge mistake of telling Gordon about this when they got back to the Orville. Knowing Gordon, he's going to dwell on it, and it could create real resentment in the future. If I were Mercer, I would've known Gordon wasn't going to leave his family, so I wouldn't have even bothered with this whole argument. I would've had Issac and Charlie mine the ditronium and stay my ass on the ship and wait to travel back to get the 2015 Gordon. I suppose that would've made for a less interesting episode, though.
Tbh I understand that 10 years are rough. What I found creepy that Gordon went after the one woman he knew and messed with her life for his own good. Thats what I find a bit off here.
exactly he used the advantage of knowing about her to make her think hes her soulmate plus he knew who she would have been with otherwise
I'm glad to see people calling the bs of this episode out. The hypocrisy of Ed and Kelly are off the scale. Kelly contaminated a society and was worshipped. Ed changed time by not letting his crew/ship be destroyed in that storm that the time traveler saved them from. None of them should exist but here they are. So Gordon not only loses his family he regresses as a character overall. Trash writing.
Not to mention Kelly changing history and nearly destroying the Universe by rejecting Ed on a second date
Time travel in the Orville is dumb and makes no sense. You don’t alter the timeline you create a branched reality. See Hulk’s explanation in Endgame.
But even with this flawed logic of time travel, Gordon’s effect on the timeline was minimal. Barely noticeable in the grand scheme of things. And we know that by the fact the future wasn’t altered in the slightest. All that changed was Gordon’s military record from the 21st century.
They could have brought them all back.
Gordon deserves to be happy. They were wrong to rob him of that.
Its such a hard episode. Theyre both right.
my favorite episode. fantastic episode!
Yeah, screw the law
Uh. Why didn't they just take the kids with them to the future? Not ideal but at least they'd be alive and have their dad.
Them correcting.the time travel could cause more harm than goid. As he stated him being there could be a fixed point in time that wasnent to happen.vamd their playing god by fixing it
Fixed points in time are used as a story point in less serious media like comics.
To the universe you meeting your future wife and a molecule of water drifting through space are of the exact same importance... none.
Also I think it's pretty clear that this isn't the 'if it happens it already happened' reasoning in some time travel stories.
Meaning there is no paradox or self fulfilling loops. There was always the original unaltered timeline until people messed with time.
My favorite episode of The Orville ever. Also one of my favorite episodes of TV ever.
What Isaak said is just stupid. When they were checking past Gordon, they observed, he lived all his life in the 21st century, the same as everyone else from that period (except those who were speeding up near a black hole, be frozen or something ;)
The only ones messing with a timeline was the captain and his ex-goddess for some people 😂
This is like when that Time Cop got stuck in the Past on Voyager. Wasn't he lost for 30 years??
In short time travel is something nobody should mess with PERIOD. This argument wouldn't be happening period if the tech didn't exist. Any tech that allows humanity to play God is more harmful to us than any good it could theoretically do. How far does progress have to go before someone should pull the breaks?
Do we maintain the status quo? Progress full speed ahead to our own destruction? or do we find a balance and control what should and shouldn't be advanced?
Agreed. When humanity advances to the point it can do almost anything, the only advancement left is the wisdom to know what it _shouldn't_
The only thing they could agree upon, is that they screened up.
I would have told them to leave
Future plot! Gordon finds out with an emergency alternative temporal research action for an upcoming crisis which has a controversial resolution! He manipulates the situation where he can change the timeline back; offering doomsday dimensional repercussions if they should try to reverse it, or retrieve him from it! This will be his personal goodbye, unless they need an almost as talented look alike descendant they can get in a later time, or their own time!
They should not have interfered and just went back to a different timeline to retrieve him.
I find it kind of hypocritical that the union messes with technology that can cause time travel yet they have all these laws about not messing with time. It’s a paradox. It ends up in the wrong hands or even the right hands you get something like what happened with Kelly. And all she did was not go out on a second date with Ed. Essentially this technology shouldn’t exist at all.
Gordon simply played the hand he was dealt and Kelly and Ed were telling him to die or to not exist. Maybe he had a winning hand and they gave him a new one mid game. How do you tell someone who does good and has a good and loving life not to exist because of something you can’t say for certain.
If they don’t kill animals in the future what are they eating when their food machine things make meat based foods?
It just makes that out of pure energy, the meat is formed artificially, not through killing animals.
@@imagiccionsounds pretty gay
Animal agriculture will definitely be illegal in the future. It's cruel and uncivilized.
Yeah, I don't think I'm joining the Union.
i like tragedy stories, but this episode was painful to watch
Time travel is hardest thing you can do, you need two harts to do it…
This episode felt very one-sided.
The worst thing out of this is when he asked "should I have died?" and they answered "yes". They said that so fast without thinking but they want him to return with them.
Honestly, this is why you don't send friends to do this kind of work. They would feel too much compassion for their friend. You should send someone who is specialized in this type of field.
This epispde shouldve shown a different timeline in the future in which the union was formed earlier and has peace with the kaylon and krill just to show the impact on tje viewer that the timeline they tried to erased still exists and is way better
If you have the ability to go back in time, why didn't they come back at the exact moment he arrived?
Let me guess some BS prevents this, so this story can happen.
Hunting.... he went hunting to survive.
Such a good episode
You know Gideon from Dad timeline should have probably stole their ship and then go back in time even further and tell his younger self do not go back to them because sometime next month, our friends will ask you to go back to them and in this time you fell in love, and then Find and then create a family so no matter what they say do not go back to them
I haven’t seen this show, so maybe there’s an explanation. Why didn’t they go back to the point he was first lost? From a physics perspective this doesn’t make sense.
And, his argument is correct. How is it that they exist in the future if his error was so great?
The order of events creates the possibility where he traveling to the past was a part of the creation of the Union all along.
I know this show is exploring things, but it is definitely using comic book physics.
It’s like when Magneto lifts up things or even levitates. For one, Magnetism doesn’t interact with gravity. Define not at any of the scales of energy that magneto presents.
For two, using that scale of magnetic force on objects would induct massive currents in the metales.
Three, Newtons laws still apply. Magneto needs an opposing force for the lifting force being exerted on the metals he is manipulating. It’s either going through his body and into the ground (because, again, magnetism doesn’t interact with gravity), or it’s being exerted between two metals, one of them stationary against the ground (in which case, again, huge currents are induced in the metals, which would probably melt them).
The point here is that the physics is really complex but kinda straightforward once you sort it out, and you can’t really just wave a writers pen to create a problem in physics. The moment the person travels back in time, that event is now a part of the past.
So, Gordon’s argument is correct.
They overshot, basically. Time travel is still relatively new tech to them, after all. They initially did receive his message to come retrieve him but were late by 10 years. After this, they eventually leave and go back to the time they were supposed to get him, and everything is back to normal.
The obsession over the existence of their Galactic love-in club as juxtaposed to the fact that Gordon's child has a much right to exist as anyone really shows both the selfishness and the hypocrisy. At best everyone here is picking the timeline they want and to hell with the negative consequences on others. Gordon, at least, made some salient points about right to life and the uncertainty of the unfolding of timelines.
I would’ve put them in the same situation.
Everyone saying they did the wrong thing is looking at far too sympatheticly. Gordons actions will have a massive impact on the timeline. The smallest action can lead to massive consequences. Hell killing the animals he saw could have insane consequences for the future. Whats bad about what the Captain does is not go back 10 years straight away when they realised.
How can Ed now demand of his best friend that he would make his family disappear when he himself is the father of Anaya?🤔"Can anyone give a sensible answer to this ?
You cant kill animals in the union? Wow it must been very shit.
Why?!
Unlimited Food is available to everyone in their world and there is no currency in the society except in the form of reputation
So animals living on the earth with them should have the same rights as inhabitants of the planet
That includes regarding “killing animals as murder”.
I like that IMO
A really good Star Trek-esque dilemma where both sides of the argument are technically right and the outcome isn't always happy. ... however, this made my wife hate the Union. LOL.
This was a great show look at the character development such a great captain should i have died mercer captain and friend says yes you should have..
wait, isn't this just the plot of somewhere in time?
Mercer was correct. It hurts but he was.
Can I say, I don't think the counter of saying "How about when Kelly became a religion?" Is the best argument because due to her existence, the entirety of their civilization continued to progress, and if it wasn't gonna be Kelly. It could have been someone who we don't know..to be so much worst.
There's also the fact that Gordon did this intentionally, whereas the Kelly situation was something she never intended to happen.
@@JShort89Gordon did not intentionally get abandoned by his own team and stranded for years on end.
If the union has laws of time travel, shouldn’t they have the power of time travel if they don’t have the power do so every law they have is theoretical shouldn’t be taken seriously
Ed and Kelly are wrong here
What is this? Some kind of lesson about. Life and time and human nature and spirit?
In a _Seth MacFarlane_ show? 😒
Something is suspicious 🤔.
Is the other Seth McFarland who made shows like "Family Guy" and that movie about all the different ways cowboys could get killed from an Evil parallel universe? And this Seth McFarland is from a Good parallel universe? 🤷🏼♂️
Are they good and evil twins, and the good one knocked out the evil one and took over his life?
Over that ten years he never once shared knowledge of the future or used it to his advantage, he should have been left. Especially when they have the ability to go back and forth, they could just quick hop back to their future and see the consequences if any
Man seth should of writen startrek Voyager. This is tuvix level philosophical inconvenance.
You recorded this with your camera?
What pissed me off the most is that they went back in time to get him.. they grabbed him before he met his wife and children.. so the children never existed wouldn't you clarify that as murder.. they should have just left them alone he had a good life a good family.. it's pretty obviously that he did not screw up the timeline
Keep in mind that they found Laura's time capsule (her phone) 400 years in the future. Gordon specifically went through all of it, pictures of where she traveled to, who she interacted with, her hobbies, her private conversations with her best friends, everything. All of this LONG before he met her in person when he got stuck in the past. So there's a very good chance Gordon knew exactly what to say to Laura to make her fall for him, and there's no chance he just so happen to bump into Laura. He very likely specifically looked for her using the knowledge he gained from going through her phone in the future.
The foundation of their marriage is a massive lie of ommission. Laura doesn't know Gordon knew a lot about her long before they ever met.
I thought this show was going to be a straight comedy. I never watched it. This seems kinda heavy.